#353：恰到好处

大家好，欢迎收听桌游狂轰滥炸播客第353期。

Hello, and welcome to episode 353 of the board game barrage podcast.

我叫马克。

My name is Mark.

在这些圈子里，我也被称为绿色坦克，今天和我一起的是橙色坦克尼兰。

I am also known as the green tank around these parts, and I'm joined by Neilan the orange tank.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

今天就到这里了。

And that is all for today.

这是一场双坦克操作。

This is a two tank operation.

不幸的是，我们没有凯伦的参与。

We are without Kellen, unfortunately.

但我们会继续进行下去，今天我们要讨论的是那些刚刚好的游戏。

But we are going to ride right along, and we're gonna be talking today about games that are just right.

有时候，你想要玩某种类型的游戏，无论是德式游戏还是合作游戏，某种特定类型的游戏。

So sometimes there's a type of game you wanna play, be it a Euro or a co op game, some specific type of game.

你知道自己想玩什么样的游戏，但有些游戏并不完全合适，而有些则完美无缺。

You know the type of game you want, but there are games that are not quite right, and they're games that are perfect.

今天，我们要讨论的是处于这个光谱两端的游戏。

And today, we're gonna be talking about games that fall on either side of the spectrum.

它们因为这样或那样的原因不够完美，而另一些游戏则恰好击中了我们的理想点，我们稍后会详细探讨这些游戏。

They're not quite right for one reason or the other, and then games that for us are the ones that hit right right in that sweet spot, and we're gonna be going over that later in the show.

在那之前，我们要先聊聊我们最近玩过的游戏。

Before we do that, we're gonna be talking about the games we've played.

我先来聊聊《兴衰》，这是我又一次玩《兴衰》的机会。

I'll start us off talking about Rise and Fall, another chance I had to play the game Rise and Fall.

然后尼兰会接着分享那款引发这个话题的游戏——《极速生存：竞速之王》。

And then Nilan will follow-up with the game that sort of brought this topic to mind, Joyride Survival of the Fastest.

我得首先承认，我对一款游戏的看法常常受到我玩得怎么样影响。

So I'll be the first to admit that my views on a game are often influenced by how well I do playing it.

我认为这种观点确实有一定道理。

I think there's some validity some validity to that.

我认为，如果我玩得特别好，通常意味着我已经相当熟练地内化了游戏试图传达的系统，能够把那些机制暂时搁置一旁，专注于真正地玩游戏本身——抛开所有规则，直击游戏的核心。

I think playing a game really well usually means, I think, that I've internalized the systems of what it's trying to get across in a fairly adept fashion, that I've been able to hopefully put whatever mechanisms they have in place kind of to the side and focus and succeed hopefully in actually playing the game itself, like setting aside all the rules and and getting to the heart of the game itself.

而且，正如我之前提到的，竞技性对我的游戏体验至关重要，它对我享受这个爱好来说意义重大。

And also given how important I've mentioned before, how important the actual competition of board games is to me, how important that is to my enjoyment of the hobby.

因此，我玩得不错，这本身自然会让我获得一个积极的体验，至少对我来说是这样。

The fact that I've done well naturally in and of itself is gonna lend itself to usually a positive experience on my end at least.

所以，如果我最近一次玩《兴衰》（由克里斯托夫·博利涅设计，Ludasalli或Ludicalli出版，我也不太确定该怎么发音）的结果能作为参考的话——那次我教了两个人玩，结果却被他们两人彻底击败——你可能会以为我对这款游戏的评价会一落千丈，尤其是我们上次在第320集深入讨论过这款游戏之后。

So if the results of my latest play of Rise and Fall, designed by Christophe Bollinje and published by Ludasalli or Ludicalli, I'm not really sure how to pronounce it, are any measure, a session where I taught the game to two people and then got thoroughly trounced by both of them, you'd expect my estimation of the game to have dropped like a stone, especially after we last talked about it in some depth back in episode three twenty where the entire BGB crew had played it together for the first time.

我那局赢得很轻松，如果你回听那一集，你会听到，即使我赢了，我仍然不确定自己对这款游戏的真实看法。

I won that session handily, and as you can hear in the episode if you listen back to that one, I still wasn't sure after that play, even though I'd won, I wasn't sure where I stood on the game.

让我们简单聊聊《Rise and Fall》这款游戏本身的机制。

So let's talk briefly about how Rise and Fall the game itself works.

你们会先共同构建一个由不同地形组成的相对较大的棋盘。

So you're gonna start by collectively building a relatively large board made up of different features.

地形包括水域、平原、森林、山脉和雪地。

So there's water, there's plains, there's forest, mountains, and snow.

从平原到森林，再到山脉，最后到雪地，你不仅在棋盘上的棋子高度上逐步上升，每个地形格子的得分也会随之增加。

Going from the plains to the forest, to the mountains, to the snow, you can rise both in literal elevation of the pieces on the board, but also how many points each hex of that land type is worth.

要计算游戏结束时一片平原区域的得分，你需要将该平原区域包含的格子数量相乘。

So to calculate how much a plains area is worth at the end of the game, you multiply how many hexes that plain section is made up of.

由于平原处于地图的底层，你需要将这个数字乘以一。

And because it's at the sort of base level of the map, you multiply that number by one.

而如果你上升到三层高，到达最顶端的积雪区域，就要将这些积雪区域的格子数量乘以四。

Whereas if you rise three levels up, you get to the very top, the snow capped regions, you'll multiply the number of these snow capped areas by four.

游戏结束时，你的大部分分数将来自对各个区域的控制，你每放置一个棋子，无论其类型如何，都算作一分，用于决定谁控制该区域。

At the end of the game, the bulk of your points are gonna come from the area control of each of these regions where each piece you have, regardless of the type of piece it is, is gonna be worth one in determining who controls that region.

我说无论类型，是因为在《兴衰》中你可以操作多种不同类型的棋子。

I say regardless of the type because there are quite a few different types of pieces you can manipulate in Rise and Fall.

你会有游牧民，它们基本上是你在棋盘上扩张并把单位转化为其他类型的主要引擎。

You'll have nomads, which are gonna kind of be your main engine in terms of spreading out along the board and converting those units into different types of units.

你会有城市、船只，还有登山单位，这些是少数能够真正穿越雪地区域的单位。

You'll have cities, you'll have ships, you'll have mountain climbing units that are the ones that are one of the few that can actually traverse the snowy sections of the board.

游戏的巧妙之处在于，只要你棋盘上还保留某种类型的单位——哪怕只有一个，或者全部都有——你就能在手中保留该单位的卡牌。

The twist of the game is that while you'll be converting from one type to another and back, if you have any units of a certain type on the board, be it a single type of that unit or all of them, all of them available, you're gonna have access to that unit's card in your hand.

一旦你完全失去了某种单位，比如你把所有该类型单位都转化成了其他类型，导致你手中没有该单位了，你就会立即失去手中唯一那张该单位的卡牌，并将其放入储备区。

The minute you have none, so sometimes you'll convert all of them out to another type and you'll find yourself with none of a unit, you immediately lose that only copy of the card from your hand to your reserve.

游戏的实际运作方式，也就是回合结构，是所有玩家在每轮开始时，从手中选择一张可用的卡牌/单位类型，面朝下选出，然后同时亮出，接着按顺序激活所有你所选卡牌对应的单位。

And the way the game actually works, the way that the the structure of the turns actually work, is that all players, to begin a round, are gonna select one of the available cards slash unit types from their hands, select them face down, and then reveal them all at once, and then take turns activating all the units of the card they've selected.

比如，如果我选择了城市卡，那么在我的回合，我会激活棋盘上所有城市单位，无论只有一个，还是我建造了很多，只要我打出这张城市卡，所有城市单位都会同时行动。

So if I've chosen my city card, for example, on my turn, I activate all my city units on the board, be it just the one or if I've built many, all of them will fire off when I play the single city card in that example.

然后，你选择的这张卡会从你的手牌或活跃使用区进入弃牌堆。

Then that card, whichever one you select, goes from your hand or from your active use to a discard pile.

在下一轮中，你会从手牌中打出另一种单位，直到所有卡牌都被打出，然后你就会重新补满手牌。

And then on the next turn, you'll play a different type of unit from your hand until you've played them all, and then you sort of refresh your hand.

这个游戏的计时机制是一个竞速要素：如果你是第一个将某种单位的所有棋子都部署到棋盘上的玩家，你就能获得该单位类型的奖杯。

The timer of this game is a racing aspect where you'll score a trophy of one of the types of units if you're the first player to get all of that unit type on the board.

所以，如果我比其他玩家更早地把所有船都部署出去，我就获得船类奖杯，游戏也就离结束更近一步——具体需要多少个奖杯取决于我们选择的游戏时长。

So if I get all my ships out before anyone else does, then I score the ship trophy and we're one step closer to end the game, the the number of steps depending on the length of game we've chosen.

通常情况下，需要集齐四个奖杯。

Usually, it's four trophies.

一旦有四种单位全部被部署到棋盘上，游戏就结束了。

So once four units have fully been played on the board, that will be the end of the game.

还有一个非常有趣的机制：每当有人获得我刚才提到的奖杯时，所有玩家都必须将一张手牌弃入衰退堆，失去对该卡的使用权，直到支付代价才能重新获得。

There's another very interesting aspect where whenever one of these trophies that I've just mentioned is scored, every player must discard one of their active cards into a decline pile, losing all access to it until they pay for the right to get it back.

比如说，有人获得了游牧民族的奖杯。

So so let's say someone scores a trophy, scores the nomad's trophy.

他们已经把所有的游牧单位都放在了棋盘上。

They've gotten all their nomads on the board.

每个人，包括我，都必须选择一张牌。

Everybody, including me, has to choose a card.

假设我选了我的城市牌，把它放进这个弃置堆，那么在本局游戏剩余时间内，我就不能再使用这张牌了，除非我支付足够的金币把它重新拿回手中。

So let's say I choose my city card, and I put that into, like, this decline pile that's now it's no longer available for me to play for the rest of the game until I pay enough coins to get it back into my hand.

这是一个很有趣的机制：你不仅在和别人竞争，而且每当有人率先完成某种单位的部署并赢得奖杯时，你都必须弃掉一张牌，失去对它的使用权，除非你存够了足够的钱把它买回来。

So it's interesting aspect where not only are you racing people, but whenever the race resolves, beating your favor or someone else's favor, you have to discard a card and lose access to it unless you've saved enough money to get it back.

这是游戏中一个独一无二的机制，我在其他地方从未见过。

So it's just a a unique aspect to the game that I hadn't seen anywhere else.

你们会持续进行这个过程，直到所有人共同集齐一定数量的奖杯。

You're gonna keep doing this until you've collectively scored to get a number of trophies.

除了在游戏中获得的少量分数外，你最终的大部分分数将取决于你棋盘上单位的总数，更重要的是，你在之前提到的区域控制方面的表现如何。

And then in addition to the relatively few points you'll score during the course of the game, you'll score the majority of the points at the end based on how many units you have in total on the board, and then more importantly, how well you've done in the area control aspect that I mentioned earlier.

说到之前提到的内容，回到我一开始说的，尽管我不太愿意承认，但我对一款游戏的当前感受，确实会受到我最近玩得怎么样影响。

Speaking of mentioning things earlier, getting back to how I started this, as much as I'm loath to admit, my current feelings again on a game can be quite influenced by how well I've done playing them recently.

而且，因为我被两个我教过这个游戏的新手彻底击败了，你可能会以为我对《兴衰》的好感下降了。

And again, because I got absolutely crushed by two rookies that I taught the game to, you might think that my feelings for rise and fall have fallen.

但恰恰相反，我的评价不仅没有下降，反而提升了。

But on the contrary, my opinion did nothing but rise and not fall.

在过去一年里，我很幸运地玩到了许多非常独特的新游戏。

I've been fortunate enough over the course of the year to play a number of really unique games.

我一直在寻找那些与众不同、有新意的游戏，并且在2025年有幸玩到了不少这样的作品。

I find myself looking for games that are unusual or offer something different and have been fortunate enough to play a number over the course of twenty twenty five.

我认为，《兴衰》是我至今仍在玩的最独特、最出色的游戏之一。

And Rise and Fall, I think, is among the most unique and the best that I continue to play.

它的玩法与我玩过的任何其他游戏都截然不同。

It plays unlike any other game that I have played.

它是一款4X游戏，而这个类型我认为很难把握得恰到好处。

It is a four x game, and that's a a genre that is, I think, quite hard to to hit quite right.

很多游戏要么战斗过于严苛，要么战斗完全显得无关紧要。

You can get a lot of games where the combat can be too punishing or the combat can feel not important at all.

有些游戏玩起来太漫长了。

You can get games that play way too long.

当你玩四X类游戏时，我认为这类游戏中存在很多障碍。

And when you come to a four x game, there are just a lot of stumbling blocks, I think, when it comes to four x sort of games.

也许我在提到《 Rise and Fall 》时用‘四X’这个词有点太宽泛了，但它确实给人一种四X的感觉。

And and, you know, maybe I'm using the term four x a little too too loosely when it comes to rise and fall, but it certainly feels like a forex.

感觉像是区域控制。

Feels like an area control.

也许‘区域控制’这个术语更准确，用来形容这种类似格斗游戏的类型。

Maybe area control is more accurate of a term to use sort of sort of fighting game.

我倾向于对‘四X’这个说法提出一点异议。

My inclination was to push back on forex a little bit.

是的。

Sure.

它有点像四X游戏。

Like, it's four x ish.

对吧？

Right?

就像，已经很接近了。

Like, it's close enough.

它确实让人感受到一款4X游戏的氛围。

Like, it it certainly evokes a four x game.

是的。

Yeah.

没有你可能在4X游戏中期待的那种科技树之类的东西。

There isn't, the tech tree or stuff, I guess, that you would might expect from from a four x.

确实有扩张机制。

There certainly is the expansion.

所以也许‘4X’这个词并不准确。

And so maybe four x isn't isn't the term.

但我觉得区域控制类游戏也存在同样的问题：战斗可能过于严苛，或显得毫无意义，或者持续时间太长，又或者根本感觉不到任何成果。

But area control games, I think, also fall under the same thing where fights can be too punitive or feel like they're meaningless, or they can run too long or just maybe just don't feel like they achieve anything.

我认为，就这些限定条件而言，《兴衰》表现得非常好。

I think in terms of just those qualifiers, Rise and Fall works wonderfully.

甚至根本没有真正的战斗系统。

There isn't even really a combat system.

有一种叫做神庙的单位，可以将周围的所有敌方单位转化为己方类型。

There is a type of unit called the temples that will convert any enemy unit around them to their own type.

这可能会感觉很强大，但不会过于极端。

And that can feel powerful but not super swingy.

而且它并不显得特别具有对抗性，因为当某人花费时间和资源建造这样的神庙单位时，他们实际上相当于说‘别来惹我’。

And it doesn't feel necessarily super confrontational because when somebody spends the time and resource to build one of these temple units, they sort of have like said hands off.

他们相当于公开宣告了自己的位置，而你则要自行承担绕行的风险。

They sort of like announce where they are and, you know, you sort of walk around them at your own peril.

你清楚自己将面对什么，所以不会感觉被突然袭击或遭遇了糟糕的骰子点数。

You sort of know what you're getting into, so it doesn't feel like you're caught out of surprise or you've had a bad dice roll.

这是一款没有骰子的游戏。

This is a game where there are no dice.

在这方面，游戏完全是确定性的。

It's completely deterministic in that respect.

你激活和使用单位的方式，以及你在放置这些单位时需要兼顾的策略——游戏的核心并不完全在于你始终关注的单位转化机制，比如哪些单位能转化成哪些，以及如何最有效地穿越地图、完成所有目标。

And just the way that you activate and use your units, the way that you're racing to put these units on the board while trying to keep in mind that the game hinges, not on this like necessarily this conversion that you're always concerned about, like what converts into what and what's my best way to sort of get across the board and and achieve all the things they're doing.

但同时，你必须清楚，你还需要转向确保在区域控制方面直接靠数量取胜。

But also, you really need to know that you need to transition to just like making sure that you win straight up on numbers in this area control aspect.

这款游戏虽然拥有诸多独特而引人入胜的元素，其规模和气势在桌面上展开时显得宏大而史诗，但实际玩起来却相当迅速。

And the game, for all the interesting aspects that it offers for as unique as it is and as epic and grand as it certainly feels when you have it on the table and you're you're playing it, plays relatively quickly.

游戏在两小时内就能结束，但在如此紧凑的时间内却提供了极为丰富的体验。

Like, the game wraps up in under two hours and there's a huge experience for as condensed as that time frame is.

我之前在最初讨论这款游戏时就提到过这一点，我认为这依然成立：这款游戏特别适合多次游玩，因为它太过独特，第一次玩时，你总觉得时间充裕、能做很多事，但转眼间却发现游戏已经接近尾声。

I mentioned this, like, back in the initial episode where we we talked about this, and I think it still holds true that this is a game that is especially aided by repeated plays just because it's so unique that I think that first play and the way that it goes from feeling like you have a lot of time to get things done to realizing the game is just about over.

由于游戏的胜负高度依赖区域控制得分，你可能会觉得自己表现得非常出色，但突然意识到自己在棋盘上根本没有得分。

And because it hinges so much on the area control scoring, you can find yourself feeling really good about how well you're doing and then realizing you've got no points in the board.

这种打击可能来得非常快。

That could hit you really quickly.

如果你不知道这一点正在发生，而在你前几局游戏中也察觉不到，那么你可能就无法像我预期的那样充分欣赏它。

And if you don't know that's happening, and you wouldn't know in your first couple games, then you may not appreciate it as much as I think you could.

所以，反复游玩绝对是必要的，但同时，正因为这款游戏既有趣又独特，我并不认为它很难教给别人，而且游戏时长也不算长，只是它的外观看起来非常有压迫感。

So definitely, repeated plays, but it also again lends itself to repeated plays because it is, for as interesting and different as it is, I don't think it's a super hard game to teach, and it's not super long, but it does it is very imposing looking.

它看起来，再次强调，非常宏伟、宏大，就像许多大型区域控制类游戏那样令人望而生畏。

It looks, again, very epic, very grand, very scary in the way that a lot of these, like, big area control games do.

但我真心建议那些正在寻找一款独特、不同寻常，但又非常有趣刺激的区域控制游戏的玩家，重新考虑一下《兴衰》这款游戏，或者如果你以前没考虑过，现在就试试看。

But I would I would just really encourage people for looking for like a unique, different, but really fun and exciting in my opinion area control game to give Rise and Fall another look or a look if you haven't considered it in the past.

这真是一款非常独特、引人入胜的游戏。

Just a really really interesting unique game.

我已经重复说过很多次了，但每当谈到这款游戏，我怎么强调都不为过。

I've repeated that a bunch, but I I can't really say it enough when it comes to this.

再次提醒，这款游戏是克里斯托夫·博利尼耶设计的《兴衰》，由Ludicalli Games发行。

Again, that is Rise and Fall by Christophe Bollinier and published by Ludicalli Games.

我觉得是l-u-d-i-c-a-l-l-y。

I think it's l u d I c a l l y.

那么这个该怎么发音呢？

So how do you pronounce that?

是的。

Yeah.

真的，真的非常喜欢。

Just really, really enjoyed it.

很棒的游戏。

Fantastic game.

我觉得，由于我自大约一年前玩过之后就没再玩过了，我目前对这个游戏的主要印象是，确实有一种说不上来的感觉。

I do think that, like, my prevailing memory of this having, you know, not played it since we played it initially, like, about a year ago at this point is there's definitely something kind of I don't know the right word is.

我会说它有点晦涩。

I'm gonna say obtuse.

我不确定‘晦涩’这个词是否完全准确地描述了这个游戏的节奏。

I'm not sure that that's exactly right about, the cadence of this game.

说它感觉不像你玩过的任何其他游戏，这种感觉确实像是一座需要跨越的小山，是的。

And to say that it doesn't quite feel like any other game you've played, and that kind of felt like a little bit of, like, a hill to get over that Yeah.

我觉得在我们玩的时候，我确实没有感受到这一点。

I feel like I didn't certainly during our games of it.

但绝对是其中一个我最——嗯，不是

But definitely one that I've most well, not

最，但绝对是自从那场初玩之后我就非常想再回去玩的游戏。

most, but certainly one that I've very heavily wanted to go back to ever since that first game.

我觉得‘晦涩’这个描述完全合适，而且我觉得这并不是贬义，因为这款游戏实在太独特了，自然会显得晦涩。

I think obtuse is a completely fine descriptor, and it doesn't feel like pejorative to me because it it is such a different game that it's gonna be naturally obtuse.

但它的晦涩源于它的独特性，而不是因为它——

But the obtuse nature of it comes from it being, I think, unique and not it being Yeah.

没错，正是这样。

That's exactly

是的。

it.

就规则而言，它显得很不透明。

In terms of, like like, opaque in terms of rules.

比如，哦，我想不起来这个了。

Like, oh, I can't remember how this Yeah.

有一点点需要理解单位之间如何转换，但我 honestly 但它是

There is a little bit of, like, getting your head around what units convert to what, but I I honestly But it's

没那么复杂。

not that complicated.

它并不

It it It is not

没那么复杂。

that complicated.

是的。

Yeah.

它只是感觉有点别扭，比如是的。

It it just felt like a little bit awkward to, like Yes.

同意。

Agree.

我觉得‘awkward’听起来可能有点贬义，但我的意思是，这个游戏的风格和我平时熟悉的、看起来类似的游戏不太契合我的思维习惯。

I I awkward's gonna sound like a pejorative, but I mean that in a kind of like a, this doesn't quite fit my brain in the way that I'm accustomed to games that look like this fitting my brain.

同意。

Agreed.

完全同意。

A 100% agreed.

百分之百同意。

A 100%

很好。

Cool.

接下来我要聊聊《Joyride：速度求生》，这款游戏由邓肯·马洛伊和皮特·沃德设计，据我所知，这几乎是他们首次推出的大作。

So I'm gonna be talking about Joyride survival of the fastest, and this is designed by Duncan Malloy and Pete Ward who this is basically, like, their first big game release as far as I could tell.

这款游戏由Rebellion公司发行。

This is also published by Rebellion.

这是一款赛车战斗类游戏。

This is a racing car combat game.

从根本上说，这是一款你需要从赛道起点出发，经过多个检查点，最终到达终点，并完成若干圈数，率先冲过终点线的玩家获胜的游戏。

It is at its heart a game where what you are trying to do is get from the beginning of the course to the end of the course through multiple checkpoints and do that for a number of laps, and whoever crosses the finish line first wins.

简单来说就是这么回事。

Kind of as simple as that.

当然，类似这样的游戏有很多。

There are obviously a lot of games like this.

我一直很喜欢传统的竞速游戏，自从我第一次玩《Robo Rally》这类游戏以来就一直如此。

I've I've liked a lot of traditional racing games, like, ever since the first time I sort of played Robo Rally and stuff like that.

这款游戏在某种程度上让我想起了那种风格。

And this does kind of remind me a little bit in that direction.

尽管地图会根据你所选择的赛道进行一定程度的定制，并且上面分布着若干检查点，

And as much as, you know, you have this map that's kind of sort of custom created depending on the specific track you're building, you have a number of checkpoints that are spread out across it.

但你必须依次触碰这些检查点，然后才能返回终点。

You have to touch those checkpoints in order then make your way back to the finish.

而最关键的是，它与传统竞速游戏截然不同的一点在于：只要你按顺序触碰检查点，几乎可以自由地在地图上任意导航。

And, crucially, what makes us feel quite different from other, like, more traditional racing games is you can kind of navigate the map almost however you want to as long as you are touching those checkpoints in order.

而这种设计在这款游戏中如此关键的原因是，通常通往这些检查点有多条路径。

And the reason that this feels like so vital in this game is typically there are multiple routes to those checkpoints.

所以你可能会绕行这条路线，尝试穿越这个缺口到达某个检查点，到达第一个检查点后做一个手刹漂移，原地转向，然后直奔第二个检查点，而不是绕着地图的拐角走，这赋予了游戏一种非常新颖的自由形式感——你并不是严格地沿着一条直线路径行驶。

So you might sort of veer around this path, you might sort of try to cut across this gap to get to one, you might get to checkpoint one, do a handbrake turn, spin around, and then beeline to checkpoint two instead of going around the corner of the map, which ends up giving it this very novel sort of free form feeling where you're not strictly just moving around a track in a straight path.

我不禁将它与我最近另一款钟爱的赛车游戏《Heat》做比较，在那款游戏中，你玩的是卡牌，围绕赛道移动，但你基本上只是沿着赛道直线前进，调整速度，尝试匹配弯道之类的操作。

I can't help but compare this to another recent favorite racing game of mine, heat, right, where what what you're doing is you're playing cards, you're moving around this track, but that you are very much just moving straight around the track, adjusting your speed, trying to match your corners, that sort of thing.

但因为《Joyride》拥有一个完整功能的六边形棋盘，你的赛车会四处蜿蜒穿梭。

But because Joyride has this, like, sort of full featured hex board, your cars, like, sort of swerving around the place.

它们有时会直线前进。

They're sort of going straight.

有些赛车彼此靠近。

Some them are near each other.

有些赛车则相距甚远。

Some of them are far from each other.

它们还会相互重叠。

They're overlapping.

你知道吧？

You know?

所以它们会互相碰撞，因为这个游戏的一个关键之处在于，它非常强烈地鼓励你挡在其他玩家的前面。

So they're they're bumping into each other because one of the crucial things about this game is it really, really encourages you getting in the way of other players.

你会撞到其他人。

You are bumping into people.

你会让那些车打转。

You're spinning those cars around.

你会把他们撞出赛道。

You're knocking them off track.

你会把他们撞到墙上。

You're smashing them into walls.

这几乎有种破坏者大赛的感觉，很多时候——这听起来可能很让人沮丧，但经常你会滑入另一辆车，导致对方原地转了整整一百八十度。

It's almost got this destruction derby feel to it to the point that very often, and this could be something that sounds really frustrating, but very often, you're sliding into another car to the point that they're spun around one eighty degrees.

你可能会想，好吧。

And you might think, like, okay.

如果我的车刚刚被撞得转到了相反方向，我该怎么恢复过来？

If I've just had my car spun in the opposite direction, how am I ever gonna recover from that?

但由于地图的布局方式，这可能会引导你走上另一条路线。

But because of the way that the map is laid out, that might just point you down another route you could take.

嘿。

Hey.

我不打算走我原本计划的路线了。

I'm not gonna go the route I thought I was taking.

现在我要绕过这个拐角。

Now I'm gonna nip around this corner.

我甚至可能赶在最初撞上我的那个玩家前面。

I might even be able to head off the player that ended up colliding with me in the first place.

所以这是一款制造混乱的游戏，但正是从这种混乱中，诞生了各种独特的机会，让你能做出聪明又酷炫的操作。

So it's a game that sort of creates chaos, but, like, out of that chaos comes these very unique opportunities to do clever and cool things.

我想简单聊聊这个游戏中的骰子机制，因为这确实是我觉得非常巧妙且新颖的一点。

I wanna talk very briefly about, like, how the dice mechanics in this work because it's actually one of those things that is quite I think quite clever and quite novel about this.

本质上，取决于你当前的档位，你的回合中就能使用相应数量的骰子。

At its heart, basically, depending on what gear you're in, that's how many dice you have access to on your turn.

所以如果我在三档，我的回合就有三颗骰子。

So if I'm in gear three, I have three dice on my turn.

这些骰子都放在我的仪表盘上。

Those dice are on my dashboard.

它们的点数和上一回合一样，这意味着我的速度大致保持了上一回合的水平。

They have the same value that they did on the previous turn, which means my speed is roughly what it was in the previous turn.

但一开始，我会选择是否锁定其中一些骰子，以及哪些骰子要重新投掷。

But initially, I choose whether I want to lock some of those dice and then which of those dice I want to roll.

你可以选择保留哪些骰子来维持第一段移动的速度，然后用剩下的骰子决定第二段移动的速度。

So you can kind of choose which dice to preserve for your speed for your first move and then the remainder of the dice you roll to determine your speed for your second move.

但关键的是，你只能在其中一段移动中转向。

But crucially, you can only, like, steer during one of those moves.

所以这就带来了一个想法，比如，好吧。

So there's this idea of, like, okay.

我觉得，如果我在撞上这面墙之前不转向，我就知道必须锁住这部分速度，但我还是会赌一把，去掷剩下的骰子。

I think that if I don't steer before I hit this wall, I know I have to lock this much speed, but I'm gonna take a gamble on rolling the other dice.

否则，我就得紧急转向避让。

Otherwise, I'm gonna have to, like, emergency steer out of the way.

所以这是一种非常巧妙的平衡，既有战术性的操作，又带点赌运气的成分，这赋予了游戏一种混乱又滑稽的氛围——你常常会朝着地图边缘冲去，心里告诉自己：好吧。

So it's this very clever balance of, like, kind of tactical play and push your luck a little bit, which lends at this kind of sort of chaotic silly feel where often you're, like, bearing towards the edge of the of the map, and you're telling yourself, like, okay.

我再往前移动一点。

I'm gonna move forward a little bit.

我来掷骰子吧，我怎么可能掷出六点呢？

I'm gonna roll the dice because I couldn't possibly roll a six.

对吧？

Right?

我肯定不会掷出六点撞上墙，结果你一掷，偏偏就是六点，直接撞上了墙。

There's no way I'm gonna roll a six and smash into the wall, and then you roll a six and smash into the wall.

这太棒了，也特别搞笑，因为你知道，最后你的车会受损，但这也给了你一个机会，让你能从看似不利的局面中努力翻盘。

And that's great, and that's funny because, like, you know, you end up, like, taking damage to your car, but it just gives you this chance to sort of, like, try to claw your way back from what feels like a disadvantage.

但我想说的是，与很多类似的游戏不同，我觉得这款游戏中的位置始终在不断变化。

But the other thing I wanna say is, like, unlike a lot of games like this, I felt like the positions on this game were constantly in motion.

那些觉得自己被淘汰了、落在队伍后面的人，其实经常在使出聪明的招数，重新冲到前面，反之亦然。

People that kinda felt they were out of it because they were at the back of the pack was sort of doing clever moves and coming back to the front and vice versa.

我从未在任何时刻感到自己真的被甩开了。

It never felt like I was ever out of it at any point.

它总是给人一种不断起伏、充满趣味的竞争感。

It just kinda felt constantly swingy and competitive in a fun way.

这种感觉并不让人觉得不公平、武断或随机，反而显得非常有创意和酷炫。

Not in a way that kind of felt like unfair or kind of arbitrary or random, like in a way that just felt really sort of creative and cool.

我真的很、很、很喜欢这款游戏。

I really, really, really love this.

我想借鉴一下我们朋友Tom的评测《Chat Up and Sit Down》中的一段话，他描述了这款游戏，而我之所以提到这一点，是因为他的描述正是本集主题的灵感来源。

There's a little bit I wanna steal from our friends, Tom's review, a chat up and sit Down, where he kinda described this game, and the reason I'm pointing this out at all is because it was kind of the inspiration for the topic for this episode.

他把这款游戏形容为《Thunder Road Vendetta》的荒诞感和《Heat》这类确定性策略游戏之间的完美中间点。

He described this game as the perfect sort of midpoint between the silliness of a Thunder Road Vendetta and the deterministic strategy of something like heat.

我完全同意这个评价。

And I I agree with that assessment completely.

它就像处于一个完美的中间地带，没那么荒诞。

It's like operating in this, like, perfect middle ground where it's just it's not quite as silly.

也不觉得那么……好吧。

It doesn't feel quite as like, okay.

你可以和任何人一起玩这个游戏。

You can just play this with anyone.

它不像《Heat》那样枯燥，你知道，如果你开局就陷入困境，通常就会一直落后。

It doesn't it doesn't feel quite as dry as heat does where kind of like, you know, if you get messed up early, you tend to be at the back of the pack for a lot of that game.

在我看来，它正处在这样一个不可思议的中间地带。

This is just for my money operating in this, like, incredible middle ground.

这并不是一款沉重的游戏。

This is not a heavy game.

这是一款极其易上手的游戏，但依然完美融合了荒诞、夸张的混乱乐趣与出色的战术玩法。

This is an incredibly accessible game, but it still feels like this great mix of like silly silly over the top chaos fun and good tactical gameplay.

我觉得这个游戏非常扎实。

I thought this was really really solid.

我觉得这个非常有趣。

I find this really fascinating.

我之前对这个其实不太了解。

I didn't I didn't really know much about this.

我喜欢这种自由形式的地图设计，只要按顺序完成目标就可以了。

I like the idea of like these sort of free form maps where as long as you hit the targets in order, you're you're good.

你提到过这些游戏竞争性很强，玩家会有这种感觉，这正是我最初的顾虑。

And you you've said that the games were really competitive where a player felt like because that was my first concern.

如果这个地图如此开放流畅，会不会出现一种情况：你感觉游戏早早结束了，玩家可能觉得他们进进出出，随时都能回来，诸如此类的情况？

Like, if this map is so free flowing, can you get in a situation where you feel like you're done really early on where you're saying people can feel like they're in and out and and can come back and all that kind

这种事吗？

of stuff?

当然。

Definitely.

而且，关键的是，由于地图的自由开放特性，即使你落在后面，也永远不会离领先者太远。

And and also because crucially, right, because of the free, firm nature of the map, even if you're, like, at the back, you're never that far away from the person who's in the lead.

所以你可以随时转移注意力，比如：嘿。

So you could just turn your attentions like, hey.

也许我不用非得盯着检查点。

Maybe I'm not gonna focus on the checkpoint.

我就直接撞一下这个人，让他转个圈，然后再去检查点，接着回来。

I'm just gonna knock this person, spin them around, then hit the checkpoint and come back.

你知道的。

You know?

这种设计本身就非常适合这种有趣的玩家小技巧。

Like, the it it lends itself to, like, fun little players like that.

所以我想象，车辆之间可能存在不对称性。

And so I'm imagining there may be asymmetry between the cars.

比如，你能得到一辆重型撞车，或者一辆速度很快的车吗？

Like, did can you get, like, a big bruiser car versus, like, a car that is fast?

或者是否存在某种情况，我也注意到有很多扩展内容。

Or is there something like I also noticed there's a number of expansions.

我不指望你玩过很多扩展内容，但根据你的描述，这个游戏似乎非常适合扩展，比如不同的地图、不同类型的小车。

I I don't expect that you've played a bunch of the expansions, but it seems and just by your description of it, seems ripe for expanding in a lot of different things, different maps, different types of cars.

但就不对称性而言，你的体验是怎样的？是的。

But in terms of asymmetry, what is your experience Yeah.

一直都在

Been with

吗？

that?

我还没玩过任何扩展内容。

I haven't touched any of the expansions.

我指的是，你玩过基础游戏。

I've been I mean, you played the base game.

基础游戏包含四种不同的卡牌，每种都代表不同的特殊能力组合。

So what the base game includes are, like, four different cards which are different combinations of special abilities.

顺便说一下，我其实还没用过那些特殊能力。

And for what it's worth, I actually haven't played with those special abilities yet.

我玩过的那几局游戏，大家用的都是相同的基础能力。

The the the couple of games I played were with just everyone having the same basic abilities.

所以基本上是

So basically

是的。

Yeah.

非不对称模式。

The non asymmetric mode.

但没错。

But yeah.

但在基础版盒子里，你有这四种非对称的玩家能力可供选择。

But but in the base box, you have these four asymmetric player powers, you know, available to you.

而且，你知道，另一点是，赛道之间其实并没有天壤之别。

And and, you know, the the other thing that it does is, you know, obviously, there's not like a world of difference between the tracks.

你实际上拥有一块双面棋盘，但通过构建检查点和在周围摆放障碍物的方式，为赛道的体验带来了极大的多样性。

You effectively have, like, one double sided board, but the way that you construct the checkpoints and place obstacles around it is what lends, like, a huge amount of variety to the way that the tracks feel.

所以，我不太会把它看作是，嘿，

So, like, it's I wouldn't think of it in the same way as, like, hey.

这里有大量可用的赛道，但棋盘的排列方式如此多样，足以让整个空间感觉完全不一样。

Here is this wealth of tracks available, but there are so many different arrangements of the board that could just make it feel like a completely different space.

正如你所说，这一点在没有任何扩展包的情况下也能实现，没错。

And that is, like you said, to your point, without any expansions, which Right.

有非常多的可能性。

There are a ton.

这个游戏在两人玩时表现如何？

And how well would this game do at two players?

我觉得竞速类游戏通常需要三名或以上玩家，尤其是这种充满混乱的游戏。

I feel like racing games generally, you you probably want three or more, especially for a chaos filled game like this.

情况是这样吗？

Is that the case?

有什么区别？

What is the difference?

是的。

Yeah.

我只玩过三人和四人局，所以没法评价两人局的情况。

I've only played it at three and four, so I can't speak for two.

但我是想看看BGG上有没有对这个问题的不错回答。

But, like, I mean, I'm just looking at BGG just to, like, see if there's a good answer to to that question.

我看到有50%的人推荐两人局，这其实让我挺惊讶的。

I'm seeing, like, 50% recommended a two player, which does actually surprise me.

你不会觉得这是一款竞速游戏该有的情况。

You wouldn't think that for a racing game.

所以，这么说来，倒也合理。

So that's that, you know, that makes sense.

我想我应该提一下，在深入了解这款游戏时，很多人把它和《Gaslands》比较，那是一款我没玩过，但一直想玩却还没来得及玩的游戏。

I I guess one of the things I should say is that, like, in digging around about this game, a lot of people are comparing it to Gaslands, which is a game I have not played, but I I have and have, you know, haven't haven't got around to.

所以我认为，如果你熟悉那款游戏，这大概能让你有个大致的概念，那款游戏更像是一个自由形式的竞技场式竞速场景。

So I think that kind of, like, maybe gives you kind of the ballpark if you're familiar with that that what that game is, where it is just kind of just more of, a free form arena type race situation.

但这款游戏显然被简化并浓缩成了一个非常易上手的桌游版本。

But this has been obviously simplified and reduced into, like, a very accessible board game package.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我自己没玩过Gaslands，但我知道它在‘非常错误’玩家群体中很受欢迎。

I've not played Gaslains myself, but I know it is a so very wrong about games favorites.

所以是的。

So Yeah.

就是这样。

That is it.

深受‘非常错误’玩家们的喜爱。

Beloved by the so very wrong folks.

是的

Yeah.

当然

For sure.

对

Yep.

好的

Okay.

但我对《Joyride的最弱生存》感到非常惊喜。

But That is I I've been, like, very, very pleasantly surprised by Joyride's Survival of the Farcest.

尤其是因为我也不太明白为什么。

And not least of all because I kinda feel like I I don't know why.

我有这种感觉，记得曾在Discord里问过一些人，感觉大家对它并没有特别热情。

I got this impression, and I saw I remember asking around in the Discord a little bit and getting the sense that, like, yeah, people weren't, like, sort of over the moon about it.

但不知为何，它完全打动了我。

But I for whatever reason, it is just, like, completely hitting for me.

我的意思是，这我们已经讨论过了，但去年我们曾拟定过一个关于为不同类别设计投票游戏的草案。

I mean, this is a a thing that we've already talked about, but we had the draft last year about drafting games for different categories.

我记得当时从我的 wildcard 选择中选了《Zenith》，并把它作为我年度游戏的替代品，结果发现它实际上确实是当年评价最高的游戏之一，而我们的 Discord 上很多人却对此不屑一顾，我觉得凯伦甚至也插话说：‘现在游戏就是这个样子了。’

And I remember drafting Zenith from my wildcard pick and using it for my my game of the year, substitute my critical game of the year and finding out that it actually was among the top critically acclaimed games of the year and seeing a lot of people on our Discord sort of poo poo that and say and I think Kellen even chimed in with, like, oh, that's where games are now.

我就是最反对它的人之一。

They I I was I was chief among them.

说实话，我不觉得这是一款好游戏。

Like, I I do not think that's a good game.

嗯，确实如此。

Well So, like yeah.

不。

No.

有时候，这种分歧就是客观存在的。

It it sometimes sometimes that gulf just exists.

但有时候我觉得你和我们的听众都错了，因为过去几周我玩了很多次《Zenith》，我觉得它是一款非常出色的游戏。

Well and sometimes I think you and our listeners are wrong because I've played a bunch of Zenith over the last couple weeks, and I think it's a heck of a game.

我不介意它被评为年度游戏之一。

I'm fine with it getting

哦，它是

Oh, it's

年度游戏之一。

among the game of the years.

它很不错。

It's good.

我们稍后再谈这个，但我认为《Zenith》是一款出色的游戏。

We'll get back into that later, but I think Zenith is a solid game.

所以我提这一点，是因为我们的听众或一些人贬低《Joyride》，但对我来说，这证明他们偶尔并不符合我的品味。

So I just bring that up because our listeners or people poo pooing Joyride, it's been proven to me that they're occasionally not aligned with my tastes.

好吧。

So okay.

听起来很棒。

Sounds great.

在我们进入各自的黄金地带之前，先说几件事。

Before we get into our separate Goldilocks zones, a couple things here.

首先，如果你喜欢这个节目，支持我们的好方法就是加入我们的Patreon。

First of all, if you are enjoying the show, a great way you can support is joining our Patreon.

在我们最近几期的集体前50名节目中，我们迎来了不少新听众，这真的非常有趣。

We have got a nice bump of new listeners for our last couple of collective top 50 episodes, were a really fun thing to do.

如果你想要更多这种搞笑、疯狂的桌游讨论和非桌游闲聊，可以加入我们的Patreon，支持节目，还能听到更多集数。

If you want more of that silliness and zaniness and board game talk and non board game talk, you can join our Patreon, support the show, and get a chance to listen to even more episodes.

我们每个月都会录制几期附加节目，所以还有更多内容等着你。

We record a couple bonus episodes per month, so there's more where that came from.

如果你是节目的赞助人，你将有机会参加我们在Dice Tower West期间每年一次的线下聚会。

And if you are a patron of the show, you are gonna have the chance to join our annual meetup at my place at Dice Tower West.

Dice Tower West几周后就要开始了。

So Dice Tower West is coming up in a couple of weeks.

今年的活动将在三月中旬于拉斯维加斯举行，每年Dice Tower West的周五，我们都会在自家举办一场超级超级超级有趣的聚会，欢迎赞助者们来我家玩。

Gonna be in mid March this year in Las Vegas, and every year on the Friday of Dice Tower West, have a super super super fun get together with our Patreon listeners where you can come to my place, hang out.

我们一整天都有游戏进行， literally 从日出一直到日落后很久。

We've got games going on all day long, literally from basically like, you know, sun up to way past sunset.

你将能享用我们为听众们准备的丰盛餐点。

And you'll be able to partake of the the big spread that we always put out for our listeners.

我打算尝试推出一套新的汉堡套餐来分享。

I'm gonna try to figure out a new set of sliders to to share.

上次，我觉得吧，我虽然谦虚，但不得不说那些汉堡大受欢迎，所以这次我会努力用新菜品再创佳绩。

Last time, I think, I'm a modest man, but I'll say that I think they were hit, so I'm gonna try to live up to that with some new offerings.

所以，是的，我们的赞助者能享受到很多福利。

So, yes, a lot of benefits to our patrons.

无论你是否能来拉斯维加斯，我都认为这是一笔物有所值的投资，能以真正有意义的方式支持这个节目，对我们和节目本身都大有帮助。

Whether or not you can make it out to Vegas, I think it is money well spent and a chance to really support the show in ways that mean a lot and do a lot for us and for the show.

非常感谢已经支持我们的所有人，也感谢正在考虑支持的人。

So thank you so much for those who have already done so, and thanks for those who are considering it.

当然，如果你实在无法参与，我们也完全理解。

Of course, if you are unable to, we totally understand.

欢迎通过告诉你们桌游夜的朋友们这个节目，或者在Apple播客或你收听节目的任何平台留下评价来支持节目，这也有助于扩大节目的影响力。

Feel free to help the show by letting people at your game night know about the show or leaving a review at Apple Podcasts or wherever you find the show, that also helps spread the word.

因此，我们同样感激这一点。

So we are equally thankful for that.

好的。

Alright.

让我们进入今天的主题：刚刚好的游戏。

Let's move on to our feature topic, games that are just right.

当我们寻找这类游戏时，我们关注的是什么样的具体类型，哪些游戏因为某些原因在某个方面有些偏差，而哪些游戏真正符合标准。

And what we're looking for when we're trying to find those games, what sort of specific types of games we're looking for, and games that for whatever reason, have proven to be a little off on one side of the spectrum or on the other side and games that really fit the bill.

这源于Neland玩《Joyride》的经历，以及他听说或考虑过前面提到的《Heat》和《Thunder Road》这些游戏。

This was inspired by Neland's play of Joyride and him hearing about or considering the aforementioned games of heat and thunder road.

所以，Nielen，你愿意再多谈一点吗？

So, yeah, Nielen, do you wanna talk a little bit more about that?

是的。

Yeah.

就像我之前提到的，玩完《Joyride》之后，我就很好奇，为什么没更多人谈论这款游戏呢？

So like I sort of mentioned earlier, I was curious after, like, playing Joyride, like, man, why aren't more people talking about this?

然后我偶然发现了Shut Up and Sit Down的Tom对它的评测。

And I I sort of stumbled upon Tom of Shut Up and Sit Down's review of it.

他基本上提到了一个非常具体的观点，这让我完全产生了共鸣，那就是，尽管我非常喜欢《Heat》，也非常喜欢《Thunder Road》，但这两款游戏确实都很棒。

And he he kinda basically just mentioned this very specific idea, which I think completely resonated for me, which is that, you know, as much as I've loved heat and as much as I've loved Thunder Road, I mean, those are both fantastic games.

它们处于这个光谱的两端，对吧？当然，这可能并不是我们将在本集后半段深入探讨的内容。

They're at opposite ends of this spectrum, right, where, you know, maybe this is not exactly quite the thing that we're gonna sort of try go into in the second half of this episode.

但这个观点是，《Heat》太过确定性，太像硬核玩家的游戏了。

But, like, this idea that heat is too deterministic, too sort of like gamers gamey.

你知道的？

You know?

而《Thunder Road》则完全走向了另一个极端。

And Thunder Road is way too far in the other direction.

它基本上就是一个掷骰子移动的游戏。

Like, it's it's so it is basically effectively a roll and move game.

这简直太荒谬了。

It's incredibly silly.

汽车不停地爆炸。

Cars are just blowing up constantly.

完全是混乱疯狂的状态。

It's just like complete chaos madness.

而《Joyride》恰好处于中间那个完美的黄金地带，天啊，这正是我现在最想大力推荐的游戏，就像我之前提到的，我喜欢这种竞速游戏，而这款游戏是我现在几乎在任何场合都会首选拿出来的那一款。

And Joyride just happens to fit in this perfect sort of like Goldilocks zone in the middle that's like, man, this is the game I now most want to champion in as, you know, a space like quite like I mentioned, I love this style of racing game, and this is the one that just is the one I'm now most likely to break out in almost any context.

是的。

Yeah.

当你提到这个时，我第一时间想到的是最近我一直在寻找的一种游戏类型。

So when you brought this up, one of the first things I thought about was a type of game that I have been trying to pick out a lot recently.

我们刚刚经历了假期季。

We've just gone through, obviously, the holiday season.

我们招待了很多家人和朋友，他们不一定都是游戏玩家，但每当有人来我们家，他们总是想玩点游戏。

We had a bunch of family and friends over who are not necessarily gamers and a type of game that, you know, whenever people come to our place, you know, they wanna play games.