#341：信箱精选

大家好，欢迎收听第341期桌游狂轰滥炸播客。我是你们的主持人橙色坦克，一如既往地，每期都与绿色坦克马克一起。你好。还有红色坦克凯伦。

Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode number 341 of the board game barrage podcast. I am your host, the orange tank, and I am here as always, as always, every episode with Mark the green tank. Hello. And Kellen the red tank.

你好。

Hello.

凯伦，上周有人说你的音频听起来有点加速。这周能修好吗？

Kellen, people were saying last week that your audio sounded a little bit sped up. Is that gonna be fixed for this week?

嗯，已经搞定了。

Yeah. I got it taken care of.

本周节目中，我们有一期听众来信环节。你们一直在给我们发问题。我们非常喜欢这样。稍后节目中我也会再次提醒，但请务必发送邮件至boardgamebarrage@gmail.com，如果你想让你的问题出现在未来的听众来信环节中。我们不常做这类节目，但每次做时都非常感谢你们的提问。

This week on the show, we have a mailbag episode. You have been sending us your questions. We'd love it when you do. I will remind you this later in the episode as well, but please please write in at boardgamebarrage@gmail.com if you want to get your question featured on a future mailbag episode. We don't do them super often, but we always appreciate getting your questions for when we do.

这部分内容稍后会在节目中播出。但在此之前，让我们聊聊我们最近玩的一些游戏。这周我们要讨论的是Weedle。Weedle。Weedle。

That is gonna be coming up later in the episode. But before that, let's talk about some of the games that we've been playing. And this week, we're talking about Weedle. Weedle. Weedle.

Weedle。Weedle。

Weedle. Weedle.

我从没听过它怎么发音，但拼写是w h e e d l e。我不认为它是Weedle，但可能这样发音也可以。所以你想怎么念都行

I've never heard it spoken, but it's spelled w h e e d l e. I don't think it's a Weedle, but I think that's probably permissible. So you do whatever you think

好吧，现在就这么念了。对了，还有《沙丘：阿瑞克斯之战》和《跨银河系》。

Well, that's that's what it is now. Yeah. Also, Dune colon war for Arrakis and Transgalactica.

在我开始讲Weedle之前，先小小剧透一下，算是说服大家坚持听完这期节目。吊吊胃口？正是。完美。天啊。

And before I get into Weedle, just a little bit of a teaser to sort of convince people to hang on for the rest of the episode. To wet their whistle? To exactly. Perfect. God.

真不敢相信我错过了这个。因为这是读者来信环节，我猜我们即将有幸听到尼尔兰著名的读者来信模仿秀——他那标志性的黏着邮件袋的音频表演。所以听众朋友们可以期待一下。哇，已经好久没听到了。

Can't believe I missed that. Because this is a mailbag, we are going to be, I presume, graced by Neland's famous mailbag impression, his audio stylings of of of sticking to the mailbag. So that's something for that's something for all the listeners to look forward to. Wow. It's been a while.

是啊是啊，确实隔太久了。这差不多是每100期才有的特别福利，大家可要竖起耳朵听好了。

Yes. Yes. It's been way too long. So this is like a once every 100 episode treats. So something to keep an ear out for.

不过在开始之前，我们先聊聊'Wheedle'（或叫'Wheedle'或'Wheedle'，随你怎么称呼）。首先尼尔兰，你听说过'Wheedle'吗？我猜没有。没有是吧。好的。

But before we get to that, let's talk about wheedle or wheedle or wheedle, however you wanna call it. So first of all, have you ever heard of wheedle, Nieland? I presume not. No. Okay.

因为我

Because I

完全没听过。

Not at all.

之前有人提到这个游戏时我也没听说过。这是Reiner Kinesia对《Pit》的改编版——你玩过《Pit》吗？

I had not heard of it before somebody brought it to the table. This is Reiner Kinesia's take on pit. You've played pit?

好吧，你玩过《Pit》吗？我玩过。应该是在你家和你还有Kellen玩过一次，如果

Okay. Have you played pit? I have played pit. Okay. I I played it once with you and Kellen at your place, if

我没记错的话。可能吧，很可能是这样。顺便快速说一下《Pit》，我刚刚查资料准备聊Weedle时才发现，《Pit》的规则起源其实存在争议。

I'm not mistaken. Maybe. That could very well be the case. Speaking of pit real quick, I was just looking into it, getting prepared to talk about Weedle, and I didn't realize this was designed in part. There's some question as to the the provenance of of the rules for pit.

但其中一位设计者叫Edgar Cayce，我对他了解不多，只知道他是二十世纪初著名的通灵者，总之是个怪人。再次声明我不太了解他，只是看到设计者名单里有Edgar Casey时觉得挺奇怪的。言归正传，这依然是Reiner Kunitsia改编的《Pit》。

But one of the designers of pit is Edgar Cayce, who I don't know too much about. I just know he was like a very famous clairvoyant in the early nineteen hundreds and just I think a weird person in general. Again, don't know much about him. Just remember when I saw Edgar Casey was a designer, was like, that's odd. Anyhow, so this is, again, Reiner Kunitsia's take on Pitt.

给没玩过《Pit》的朋友简单说明规则——这也是《Pit》的魅力所在——它的规则非常简单：使用一套印有小麦、糖等不同商品的卡牌，平均分给围坐在桌边的玩家。回合开始后，玩家们要不停喊出想用两样东西换两样东西，比如'用两袋小麦换其他东西'。游戏核心就是持续进行这种混乱交易。

For those of you who don't know Pit, I'll go over the rules very briefly. And this is one of the charms of Pit is is that it's very very simple to teach. Basically, is a deck of cards, they all have different commodities on them like wheat and sugar and all these kind of things. The stack of cards is evenly distributed throughout all the players sitting around the table, and then the round starts and you are just shouting that you wanna trade two things for two things, or you wanna trade two wheat for something else. And the idea in pit is you keep doing that.

这实际上就是实时喊出你想要什么以及愿意放弃什么。场内所有交易都是等量卡牌交换。比如你可以说用一张燕麦换一张糖之类的。如果有人喊‘成交’，你们就同时交换卡牌，整个回合大家都在喊叫试图交易。这种情况会持续直到有人垄断市场，集齐某类卡牌的所有份额，此时该玩家会获得一定分数。

It's a real time just shouting what you want and what you're willing to give up. All trades in pit are of like number of cards. So you can say one oat for one sugar or whatever. And then if somebody says, I got it, I got it, you trade a card simultaneously as the rounds going, as everybody shouting trying to trade cards. That continues until one person has what's called cornered the market and acquired all the cards of that particular type, and when that happens that player scores some number of points.

这将结束当前回合，当有人累计达到特定分数时，他们就是游戏赢家。Weedle与Pit类似，但更具游戏性。Weedle的玩法是有多种不同花色卡牌——虽然我记不清具体设定，可能是不同公司——你需要掌控不同公司。

And then that will end the round, and then once somebody has the score to some number of points cumulatively, they are the one of the game. So Weedle is similar, but it's a more gamery version of Pit. So the way that Weedle works is there are a number of different cards in different suits. They also have I can't remember what the idea is. They may have different companies and you're trying to take control of different companies.

我想主题大概是这样。实际上就是不同颜色的卡牌，不同花色，每张牌都有不同数字标记5、7或9，代表该卡牌在牌堆中的份额数量。比如红色9意味着牌堆中有9张红牌。其实时交易机制与Pit非常相似。

I think that's the theme. Although what it really is is just different colored cards, different suits of cards, and they all have different numbers on them. They're either five, seven, or nine, and that represents how many shares, how many copies of that card exist in the deck. So if a red nine, there are nine red cards in the deck. And it works much the same way as pit in so far as it's real time.

不同之处在于Wheedle允许不等量交换。你可以说‘我有一张红牌，谁想用两张绿牌换？’或‘我有两张黑牌，想要三张蓝牌’。给出与获得的卡牌数量可自行决定。当有人喊停时回合结束，但喊停者手中必须持有多数花色卡牌。例如我手上有7张绿牌中的4张和9张黑牌中的6张，就符合喊停条件。

The twist is that in Wheedle, you can change exchange any number for any number. So you can say, I've got one red, does anybody wanna trade it for two greens? Or I've got two black cards, I want three blues, or two blues, or whatever the case may be. So the number of cards that you give and receive can be of your choosing, and the round ends at any point when somebody yells stop, but the person who yells stop must have a majority of all the different types of cards in his hand. So for example, if I have four of the seven green cards in my hand and six of the nine black cards in my hand, I have a majority in both suits that are present in my hand and therefore I can stop the round.

若我只持有7张绿牌中的2张，即使有全部9张红牌也不能喊停，因为绿牌未达多数。由于允许不等量交换，你手中卡牌数通常会与其他玩家不同——这在等量交换的Pit中不会发生。Wheedle另一个特色是桌中央有张负面股票牌，持有它会扣分。

If I had two of the seven green cards in my hand and all nine of the red cards in my hand, I could not yell stop because the green cards that I have represented in my hand are not a majority, and therefore, I cannot stop the round. So at any point, once you have a majority of of a color card in your hand, you can stop the round. And because you can trade different number of cards for fewer or more cards, you may have fewer or more cards than in in fact, you mostly will have a different number of cards in hand than other players in the game, is something that does not happen again in pit because pit is all like for like. The other gamery twist in Weedle is that there's one card face up in the middle of the table and that is like the negative stock or the negative company. And if you have that in your hand, they're worth negative points.

更妙的是，除了与玩家交易，你还可以用手牌交换桌上的负面牌。比如你持有大量红牌时，若有人将红牌放到中央，你就有动力换走它——既能增强手牌组合，又能把负面牌转嫁他人。你可以指定紫色或蓝色为负面牌，这个机制会不断变化，因为持有对应花色的玩家会急于换回，形成动态博弈。

But the twist is, the twist on twist, I guess I should say, is in addition to exchanging cards with people around the table, you can also exchange one of your cards in hand with that bad card in the table. So if you've got a lot of red cards in hand and you're looking for red to score, and somebody puts a red card down in the center, you are incentivized to take that, not only because it boosts the reds that you have in your hand, but because you can stick somebody else with a negative stock card. You can make, like, purple the bad card, or blue, or whatever else you have in your hand, you can trade that in, and now that is the bad card. Now again, that is ever changing because whoever is hard into green or whatever is on the table will suddenly say, no. I gotta get that card because that's what I'm I'm holding onto, and it becomes this, like, push and pull of, like, keeping an eye on the center card of the table while making deals left and right.

这样不会导致恶性循环吗？比如有人换成负面牌后，其他人又换回来，反复拉锯，场面岂不混乱？

Why is to stop that just happening constantly where, like, someone swaps to the negative card, someone realizes, no. This is bad, and they swap it back, and then someone swaps it back. Like, that just feels like that would be chaos.

理论上会，但实际体验中，中央牌会经历从热门到冷门的过程。最终阶段时，持有少量该花色的人更关注获取多数牌而非清除负面牌——毕竟扣分事小，垄断事大。直到有人正确喊停才会计分。

But and you'd think so, but I in practice, what happens in my limited experience is that the card in the center, it sort of like initially becomes like cards that people are wanting and or wanna stay away from, but then it gets to a point where the card in the center will be a card that some people have one or two of in their hand, and it's not like a vital thing for them to, like, remove. It's more important for them to deal with the rest of the cards in hand and try to, like, get that majority because it's bad to have the negative value card, but it's not a death knell. It's more important to get the majorities. Okay? And so, again, you'll keep doing this until somebody yells stop, and then you'll score points.

计分规则很简单：正确喊停者（即手牌符合多数条件）得5分奖励；错误喊停扣5分。垄断某花色（集齐所有该色卡牌）每张得2分，多数牌每张得1分，负面花色每张扣1分。进行两轮后游戏结束。

The way points work is relatively simple. The player who yells stop, if they have yelled stop in a correct way, in in other words, because they have enjoys their hand, they get a bonus five points. If they've done it in error, the round still stops, but they'll lose five points. And then if you have cornered the market, if you have all the cards of a color, every card is worth two points. For every card they have that's a majority, you get one point.

我查过Wheedle的BGG评分只有6.2分——考虑到Pit也才6.4分倒不意外，但我觉得Wheedle优秀得多。唯一缺点是教学难度较高。

And then for every card you have of the bad suit, you lose a point, and that's it. And then you do you go around the table twice, and that's the game. I looked Wheedle up because again, had never heard of it after playing it, and I was really surprised that it got has a 6.2 on BGG. I guess it's not super surprising given Pitt is a 6.4, but I think Wheedle is a far superior game to Pit. Except in one respect, which is an important respect, is that it's more difficult to teach.

我认为我可以向非游戏玩家教授这款游戏，但不像过去教他们玩《Pit》那样容易。不过对于想快速体验《Pit》游戏感的玩家，我强烈推荐《Weedle》。我觉得它保留了《Pit》所有的疯狂刺激、交易谈判和说服环节的乐趣，同时加入了一些合理的游戏化调整，既不会让规则变得繁琐，也不会拖慢这种动态游戏的节奏。所以如果你是《Pit》或实时游戏的爱好者，我建议试试《Weedle》，对于愿意接受多几条规则的玩家来说，这简直就是直接升级版。

I think I could teach this to non gamers, but not as easily as I have taught Pit in the past to non gamers. But for a quick gamery sort of take on Pit, I really really liked Weedle. I thought, you know, it has all the fun, crazy franticness of Pit, the deal making, the shouting, the convincing you try to do with Pit. But with a couple of gamery twists that make a lot of sense and don't bog the game down with unnecessary rules or cruff that would otherwise like, you know, slow down a dynamic game. So if you're a big fan of Pit or real time games, I would say to check out Weedle because I think it's just a straight improvement for those who are willing to take on a couple more rules.

这就是Rainer Kinesia设计的《Weedle》。据我所知它已经出版过多次，最近一次是由Out of the Box出版社发行的。

So that is Weedle by Rainer Kinesia. I think it's been published a number of times. I think most recently by out of the box publishing.

不过看起来，似乎有多个不同名称的版本存在。

But Yeah. There seem to be, like, a lot of different versions under different names as far as I can tell here.

没错。你甚至可以用《Pit》的卡牌临时组一套《Weedle》来玩，应该不需要做太多改动。

Yep. You can even probably proxy a version of this with a pit deck, I think. It wouldn't take too much changing things up.

酷。好的。现在我要聊聊《Dune: War for Arrakis》，感觉这个周末我已经多次提到或输入过这个游戏名，但到现在都不确定自己念对了没有。是的，《Dune: War for Arrakis》。

Cool. Okay. I'm gonna be talking about Dune War for Arrakis, And I feel like I have said or typed that game multiple times this weekend, and I'm not entirely sure I still get it right. Yes. Dune War for Arrakis.

这款游戏由Marco Maggi和Francesco Nepitello设计，他们也是《魔戒圣战》的原设计师之一。本质上这是《魔戒圣战》的简化版，只不过换成了《沙丘》主题，由CMON公司出品，所以你能期待的所有CMON元素都在：过度生产的海量模型、令人震撼的桌面呈现效果——虽然我觉得太占桌子空间了，但确实营造出了《魔戒圣战》那种极致奢华的史诗游戏体验。

This is designed by Marco Maggi and Francesco Nepatelo, who are two of the original designers of War of the Ring. This is very much intended to be kind of a streamlined version of War of the Ring, obviously, rethemed for Dune. And this is put out by Seamon, so it has all of the things you'd expect from a Cmon game. Overproduced massive amount of miniatures, really kind of an incredible looking table presence. Takes up too much space in the table, I would argue, but it's kind of got that full on War of the Ring experience where it just looks like this really extravagant epic game experience.

那么《Dune: War for Arrakis》的玩法是什么？标准是双人对抗（虽然支持四人），一方扮演亚崔迪家族，另一方扮演哈肯尼家族。如果你不熟悉《沙丘》设定，这两大势力在沙漠星球上争斗...不过现在谁还不知道《沙丘》呢？总之，游戏具有强烈不对称性。

So what is happening in Dune War for Arrakis? It's a two or it technically goes up to four, but like I it's primarily designed as a two player game where one player plays as the Atreides house, one player plays as the Harkonnen house. If you're not super familiar with Dune, these are two warring factions on a sand planet. I well, who doesn't know what Dune is at this point, I suppose. But, anyway, it is quite asymmetric.

和《魔戒圣战》类似，双方胜利条件不同。扮演红色哈肯尼阵营时，你需要获取10点霸权分数，主要通过攻占敌方据点实现。地图上散布着多个据点，它们隐藏着代表防御值的胜利点数，虽然可以用行动力侦察，但更直接的方式是直接进攻——每攻占一个据点能获得1到3分（满分10分）。

The win conditions as in war of the ring are different for either of the sides. If you're playing the red Harkonnen faction, you are trying to get to 10 supremacy points, which you primarily do by conquering the enemy's settlement. So there's a bunch of settlements spread out across the map. They are worth a hidden number of victory points, which also represents their defense. There are ways that you can scout those out, but that's costing you actions.

而亚崔迪阵营则需要完成秘密目标卡：游戏开始时抽取的卡片会写明需要获取特定数量的红/黄/绿点数（比如3红4黄9绿）。每回合你可以从三张任务卡中选择完成两项，比如「让保罗和杰西卡在本回合结束时位于沙漠深处」或「在对哈肯尼的进攻中造成伤亡」——完成这些任务就能在对应颜色轨道上前进。哈肯尼玩家除非特别留意，否则很难判断你离胜利还有多远。

Otherwise, you're attacking them, revealing what the settlements are, getting one, two, or three points of the 10 that you need in order to win the game. If you are the Atreides faction, you are trying to work your way towards a secret objective. That is a card you draw right at the start that just says, you need to get three red points, four yellow points, and let's say nine green points. And that's gonna be different from card to card to card from game to game. And then you're moving up these point tracks by completing objectives.

这些迷你任务体现了游戏丰富的可能性。当你完成任务时，比如获得1红1绿点数，就能在独立轨道上前进。但哈肯尼玩家除非密切关注你专注的得分类型，否则永远猜不透你离胜利有多近。

So you draw three every round of the game, and you can complete up to two of them. And they're just things like, okay. Have this character, have Paul and Jessica in the deep desert at the end of the round, or have an attack against the Harkonnen where you get a casualty. Like little mini objectives that speak to the multitude of different things you can do in this game, and as you complete them, you get a red red point and a green point. So you're moving up these tracks independently, but the Harkonnen player is never quite sure how close you are to winning the game unless they're really paying attention to the sorts of points you're focusing on on that sort of thing.

这就是两个胜利条件。无论哪个先达成，该玩家就获胜。游戏通过这个骰子行动系统展开——每回合开始时，你要投掷所有骰子。骰子上有各种符号代表不同行动选项。你需要将骰子分配到对应行动上，比如使用策略骰可以调动部队作战。

So those are the two win conditions. Whichever one gets met first, that player wins. The game kind of plays out using this dice action system where at the beginning of every round, you're gonna roll all of your dice. They have a bunch of different symbols on them representing the different actions you can take. You're gonna assign those dice to those actions, and then say, I fight if I spend the strategy dice, that allows me to move troops.

使用领导力骰可以移动将领，家族骰则能部署载具。每种骰子对应不同行动。游戏刻意设置了行动门槛来限制可选行动，这对很多人可能会很 frustating——比如这回合特别想执行某个行动，却没掷出对应骰子。

If I spend a leadership dice, that allows me to move leaders. If I spend a house die, that allows me to place vehicles. So each of the dice has different actions corresponding to it. So there is a fair amount of the game intentionally sort of gating the actions you can do or limiting the actions you can do, which, you know, to a lot of people that might be quite frustrating. Oh, I really wanted to do this one action this turn, but I didn't roll those dice.

但行动之间也存在灵活性重叠。比如策略行动和领导力行动就很相似，区别仅在于移动对象和战术目标。为缓解这种限制，游戏准备了计划卡牌系统——双方玩家都有两套卡组，只需消耗一个骰子就能发动上面的强力情境行动。

But there is some flexibility in like how some actions overlap with others. The strategy and the leadership actions for example are kind of two quite similar actions just depending on what you're moving and where you're planning on moving them. And to mitigate a lot of that, there are a bunch of these planning cards. So these are two decks of cards that both players have access to and they have a bunch of really powerful actions that you would just spend a die to use. So they're quite situational.

如果你记得我提过《魔戒圣战》，这机制很类似——比如当萨鲁曼在特定时间位于森林时，你打出末日卡就会召唤炎魔。这些强力行动通常需要特定情境触发。在《阿瑞克斯之战》里虽没那么严苛，但确实让游戏体验更友好也更隐晦。与《魔戒圣战》另一大区别是它没有双线并行机制——后者既有护戒队潜行系统，又有战争推演系统，双方各有两个胜利条件。

If you recall me ever talking about war of the ring, this is kind of similar to that idea where, you know, if Saruman is in the forest at this particular time that you play the ends card and the ends show up. So very powerful actions that generally require, like, quite situational things to happen. They're not quite that situational in Arrakis, but this is one of the ways that the game is trying to make the whole experience a little bit friendly, a little bit more obtuse. The other major thing that it does quite different to War of the Ring is it doesn't really have that sort of overlapping two games in one. So War of the Ring has this hunt for the ring system where the fellowship is trying to get to Mordor and the Sauron players, like, trying to track them, And there's the war game kind of happening simultaneously, and there's two victory conditions per player actually in that.

本作将机制精简为厄崔迪家族执行秘密任务——某种程度上类似护戒队设定，他们的部队位置隐蔽（多数单位以暗置token表示，仅厄崔迪知晓具体配置），当你进攻时会遭遇意外抵抗力量。

This kind of streams it down to kind of just like the the Atreides is trying to do their own sort of mission thing. So they're kind of doing the hunt for the ring thing a little bit, in that their troops are a little bit more hidden. You don't exactly know where they are. In fact, most of the units are represented by face down tokens that only the Atreides knows the composition of. And then when you attack them, you kind of are surprised by what their troops are generally there.

这就是厄崔迪玩家的主要玩法。而哈克南则是盘踞高原的残暴势力，需要向外扩张袭击基地。游戏充满沙丘元素：沙虫、沙漠生存危机、必须派出香料采集车满足公会需求——若香料产量不足，哈克南玩家的可用骰子会受限。

So that's a lot of what the Atreides player is doing. And the Harkonnen is just this big brutish force that starts off on the plateau and sort of has to, like, spread out and attack the bases. There's a whole bunch of great Dune flavor in there. There's, like, sandworms. If you get trapped out of the desert, you're trying to get your spice harvesters out in order to get spice to keep all the trading guilds happy.

虽然保留了浓郁的沙丘风味，但设计师确实提炼了《魔戒圣战》的核心机制并进行惊人地浓缩。你能感受到这是...《魔戒圣战》问世多久了？至少二十多年了吧？

That limits the amount of dice you have access to as the Harkonnen player if you're not producing enough spice. So there's plenty of great Dune flavor there, but they've really taken the core of what War of the Ring is and kind of condensed it down in ways that are really quite impressive. You can kind of tell that this is god. How old is War of the Ring? Probably twenty plus years old at this point.

能看出这是同个设计团队回归经典——经过二十年打磨的机制，他们精准保留了精髓体验并适配新主题。这种现代化改编非常酷。《魔戒圣战》虽好，但有时会被庞大系统压得喘不过气。我不认为本作能达到《魔戒圣战》之于魔戒那样的主题契合度...

You can tell that this is the same design as returning to a design that has had so much playtesting and had so much love and sort of care given to it over the course of twenty years and really kind of drill down to the things that they thought were crucial for the experience while adapting it for a new theme. It it's really quite a cool adaptation of kind of that game's mechanics in a way that feels very, modern. Like, I love War of the Ring. It sometimes feels like it is a buckling under the weight of its systems a little bit while trying to provide this all encompassing, like, Lord of the Rings experience. I don't think that War for Arrakis gets all the way to kind of the thematic experience that, like, War of the Ring is for Dune.

但游戏的精炼程度确实让我非常享受。

But I do think that the game is quite well refined in a way that I really, really enjoyed.

真有意思。除了沙丘IP和部分设计团队与《魔戒圣战》相同外，我对这游戏一无所知。我原以为只是把《魔戒圣战》换皮成沙丘主题稍作修改，但听你描述差异很大，更像是它的精简版。让我问问...

That's very interesting. I didn't know really anything about this game aside from, obviously, the Dune IP and that it was by the partially the same design team as War of the Ring. And for some reason, I just assumed it was sort of like the War of the Ring game ported over to the Doom IP with maybe a couple small changes, but it seems to be quite a bit different. And as you said, sort of like a a more streamlined version of it. Let me ask you.

所以亚崔迪玩家有这些类似任务卡的东西，他们需要通过完成这些任务来获得不同颜色的分数。对吧？是的。哈克南玩家知道这些任务是什么吗，还是他们只是试图... 是的。

So the Atreides player has these sort of like mission cards that they're trying to accomplish in order to get points in different colors. Right? Yeah. Does the Hakonen player know what the the missions are, or are they just trying to Yes.

他们知道。

They do.

好的。他们知道。好的。好的。

Okay. They do. Okay. Okay.

不。他们知道。这些叫做预知卡。它们是公开信息。所以在回合开始时，你们俩都会看着这些卡片说，好吧。

No. They do. They're called prescience cards. They are public information. So at the start of the round, you're both looking at those cards going, okay.

你会试图做这个。你会试图做那个。而作为哈克南玩家，实际上，你的游戏很大程度上就是试图阻止亚崔迪玩家完成所有这些事情。就像，好吧。你需要在这个没有领袖的区域内。好吧。

You're gonna try to do this. You're gonna try to do And you're as the Harkonnen player, like, actually, a lot of your game is effectively just trying to block the attack from doing all of those things. It's like, okay. You need to be in this sector without a leader. Okay.

我会确保这个受保护的区域内总是有一个领袖。好吧。你想和保罗一起在这个角落？那我会骚扰保罗，让他可能到不了那里，你懂的，就是这类事情。你的游戏最终——作为哈克南玩家我觉得相当满足——总是在这种平衡中：好吧。

I'm gonna make sure I always have a leader around this sector that's protected. Okay. You're trying to be in this corner with Paul? Well, I'm gonna, like, just harass Paul so that Paul maybe doesn't get there, you know, that sort of thing. Your game ultimately, which which I found as the Harkon player was quite satisfying is always this balance of, okay.

我要试图压制亚崔迪玩家想做的任何事。同时，还要攻击他们的基地，因为我需要那些分数。还要采集足够的香料，以免惹恼贸易派系。所以各方面都有多重压力，亚崔迪玩家也差不多。他们要防守基地，同时保持机动，还要设法挫败哈克南。

I'm gonna be trying to, like, suppress whatever the Atreides player is trying to do. Also, push on their bases because I need to get those points. Also, mine enough spice to, like, not piss off, like, the the trading faction. So there's there's this multiple tensions in in all directions, and the same is kind of true for the Atreides player. You know, they're trying to defend their bases while staying mobilized and kind of try to thwart the Harkonnen at the same time.

这种设计非常巧妙，就像《魔戒圣战》那样。《魔戒圣战》就是：我要担心保护基地，同时还要保护护戒队。就是这种相互冲突的压力。

It's very satisfying in a way that, like, they've cleverly done the thing where War of the Ring is all about that. Right? War of the Ring is, okay. I have to be worrying about protecting my bases, but also I'm trying to protect the fellowship. Like, it's these competing tensions.

对。

Right.

他们提炼了这种精髓，同时有效地剔除了游戏的整个一半。我明白了。他们把它融入了游戏的核心机制。这真的很聪明，因为与此同时，这仍然是个相当复杂的游戏，仍然是个相当耗时的游戏。

They've boiled that down while effectively, like, stripping out one whole half of the game. I see. They've kinda just baked it into the underlying core of the game. It's really quite smart because at the same time, it still is quite a heavy game. It's still quite a long game.

比如，我们第一局游戏大约花了三小时，但我仍然认为这比大多数人预期《魔戒圣战》所需时间短得多。在大家印象里，《魔戒圣战》应该是四到五小时的史诗级游戏。但根据我的经验通常没那么长，而说实话，《阿瑞克斯之战》在重复游玩后感觉能压缩到两小时以内。真的让我印象深刻。

Like, our first game of this took about three hours, but I still think that that is much less than what most people would expect War of the Ring to take. Like, I think in everyone's heads, War of the Ring is just, like, four to five hour epic game. It's not usually that long in my experience, but, like, dude, War for Arrakis feels like it would get down to under two hours, honestly, with repeat plays. Okay. So really quite impressed by it.

我很想再玩一次。它并没有取代《魔戒圣战》在我心中的地位，毕竟我更喜欢那个IP，而且它的主题体验更扎实。但出乎意料的是，我发现自己可能会更频繁地玩《阿瑞克斯之战》——原本我只打算试试这个所谓的'魔戒圣战竞争者'然后束之高阁。但它确实令人惊艳。

Like, I I wanna revisit it. I don't think it replaces War of the Ring for me just by by virtue of fact. I love that IP a whole lot more, and it it feels like a more solid thematic experience. But I I could see myself playing, like, a lot more War for Arrakis in a way that I was kinda surprised because I expected this to be a I'll see what this kind of war of the ring contender is doing, and then just never come back to it. But, yeah, really impressed by it.

当然你刚接触不久可能感觉不到，但我猜你应该能体会到——尽管不对称性很强，但游戏平衡性似乎相当不错。毕竟这个设计团队在这方面有足够信誉保证。

And, of course, it's impossible for you to know this given you've been on page, like, a limited amount of time, but I assume that you get the sense that it it seems fairly balanced as asymmetric as it is. I mean, I guess I guess you would just you would trust the design pedigree as well on that front.

我也这么认为。不过首局游戏时我扮演哈克南家族表现奇差——这个通常被认为新手局容易获胜的阵营。这种情况反而让我对平衡性有了更积极的判断。

I think so. I mean, yeah. That's my expectation. I will say what's what's kind of hard for me to gauge is that is that very first game I played to this, I did so spectacularly poorly as the Harkonnen player, which is supposed to be the one that people say is like, okay. Most of your first games, the Harkonnen players are gonna win.

我开局就频频失误，某种程度上扭曲了平衡性评估，但这是好事——因为理论上较弱势的新手阵营反而赢了。目前统计数据表明游戏平衡性确实做得很好。

And I just, like, stumbled out of the gate in a way that, like, throws off the balance question a little bit, but in a way in a positive way. Right? Because, like, the faction that is supposedly the weaker faction for early gamers won out in that game. Right. I have heard a lot of stats to suggest that the game is quite well balanced.

很多人反馈的胜率曲线和我描述一致：哈克南初期胜率高，但等厄崔迪玩家掌握技巧后就会接近五五开。从各方面看平衡性确实出色。CMON在FAQ和规则修正方面也做得很好。

I think a lot of people seem to have that exact curve I described where Harkonnen wins most of the early games, but then once the Atreides player figures out what they're doing, it gets close to fifty fifty. I see. So, yeah, by all respects, it does seem to be pretty well balanced. They've also done a fairly good job from what I can tell. Like, I I I would say Cmon generally do a good job with, like, FAQs and, like, errata and rules corrections.

现行FAQ里直接写着'我们出于平衡性调整了这条规则'。他们在这方面确实靠谱。

Like, the current FAQ of the game straight up just has a, hey. We changed this rule for balance reasons. Yeah. Okay. You know, they're they're good about that.

总之这就是Seaman出品的《沙丘：阿瑞克斯之战》。

But, yeah, that is Dune War for Arrakis by Seaman.

最近我试玩了Daniel Tashini的T系列新作《跨银河传》——这位曾创作《托尔金》《泰尔图姆》《塔克纽》《特奥托坎》的设计师新作，由Devere Games发行。游戏中你将扮演太空政治派系，通过工人放置与引擎构建的创新机制争夺'宇宙总督'之类的头衔。

So I got a chance to play Transgalactica. This is the latest in the t series of games by Daniel Tashini. He of Tolkien, Taeiltum, Takenyu, Teotokan, and published by Devere Games. In Transgalactica, you're gonna be playing as some space fearing political faction trying to be, I'm not sure, governor of the universe or something by scoring the most points through a few different mechanisms, but mainly via an interesting take on both worker placement and engine building. First, I wanna talk about the worker placement since it's the core of the game.

根据玩家人数，开局你会获得2-3个船长（大号米宝）和1个船员（小号米宝），游戏过程中可能解锁更多小号船员。行动时通常先放置船长米宝到8个工放位之一执行行动，其他玩家可用小号米宝跟随行动——这是游戏的核心机制。

Depending on the player count, you're gonna start the game with two or three what are called captains, which are also known as the larger meeples, and a crew member, which is a smaller meeple, with the possibility of unlocking some more of the smaller crew member meeples during the course of the game. These are gonna be your workers. On your turn, you're be placing a worker, usually one of the larger captain ones, on one of the eight worker placement spots in the game. You are then gonna take your action, and then every other player is gonna have the opportunity to follow your action by playing one of their workers, usually the smaller crew members. And this is the sort of like the main dynamic of the game.

首先会有人放置他们的队长棋子执行主行动，随后其他玩家将有机会跟随。跟随行动允许玩家采取与主行动同类型的行动，但通常是威力较弱或成本更高的版本。那么具体有哪些行动可选呢？正如我提到的，共有八种工位行动，它们可分为两大类别。我们先来谈谈第一类——轨道相关行动。

Somebody's gonna place their large captain, take the action, and then everybody else is gonna get a chance to follow. Following allows that player to take the same sort of action as the main action, but usually either a less powerful version or a more expensive version of the main action. So what are the actions you could take? So there are eight as I mentioned, there are eight workplaces bots and they fall into two different main, I guess, categories. So let's talk about the first main category, which are the track related actions.

所谓轨道相关行动，明确来说是指围绕版图布置的进度轨，激活对应行动即可沿轨道前进。比如这条军事轨道用于对抗盘踞在中央版图行星周边的海盗。但更重要的是，每轮结束时军事轨排名最低的玩家会扣分，而最高者将得分。另有资源轨道可因访问行星获取资源，科技轨道能解锁一次性或持续生效的特殊能力。

And when I say track related, to be clear, I'm referring to tracks that are surround the board, and that you're gonna be moving up by activating the associated action. So there's this military track that you're going to use to fight pirates that are gonna be hovering around some of the planets that are on the central map of the board. But more importantly, at the end of every round, whoever's the lowest on the military track is gonna lose some points, while whoever's highest on the track is gonna gain points. There's a track that allows you to gain resources for some number of planets that you visited. There's a science track that's gonna allow you to unlock the ability to gain either one time or persistent powers.

最后还有政治轨道，可解锁配方完成卡并提升个人收入水平。以上就是通过推进各类轨道产生效果的四种行动。另外四个非轨道类工位中，旅行行动能让你在布满行星的中央版图上移动。当你在行星建立空间站后，将获得专属收入或仅你可用私人工位。采矿行动则能触发个人采矿收入——这种收入不会自动每轮发放，必须执行该行动才能获取。

And finally, there's a politics track that's gonna allow you to unlock recipe fulfillment cards, as well as increase how good your personal income is. So that's one half, is moving up these different tracks that do things. The other half of the worker placement spots, the other four non track related ones are, there's a travel one that's gonna allow you to move the aforementioned map that contains a number of different planets. You're gonna be able to travel around these planets and if you are able to put a a station on them, you're gonna either get income or a private worker placement spot that only you can go to. There's a mining action that's gonna allow you to fire off your own personal mining income, is another type of income that doesn't fire off every round and you only will get if you take that action.

说到收入，另一个工位能揭开个人版图上的覆盖格，提升每轮固定收入。最后是万能工位，允许你重复执行本轮已被选过的行动——因为当某个行动被选择后，该轮就不再可用。所以你要么抢先执行主行动，要么选择跟随，若两者都做不到，就只能寄望于这个万能工位（前提是它尚未被占用）。游戏进行五轮后统计分数决出胜负。

Speaking of income, there's another spot that's gonna allow you to uncover spots on your personal board that will increase income you get every round. And finally, there's a wild card spot that's gonna allow you to take any previously taken action because, I don't think I've mentioned this yet, when someone takes one of these actions, that action is no longer available for that round. So you either better be the one to take the action, you better follow it, or if you aren't able to do either of those two, go against this wild card spot to take the action yourself. And again, only if that spot's available because like all the other actions, if it's taken, you can't get on it. So this goes on for five rounds, at which point you total up your points and whoever wins, wins.

特别强调五轮机制意味着——快速计算可知——整局游戏你只能放置主工人10次。当然通过跟随行动和探索地图获得的私人工位能增加行动机会，实际总行动数会超过10次，但整体节奏仍然很快。这款机制复杂的游戏，我们首局带着各种疑问也只用了约九十分钟就完成。

I bring up this five rounds part because that means, if you've done the math really quickly, you're only gonna be placing your main worker 10 times during the course of the entire game. And yes, you're gonna take a number of these follow actions so that'll allow you to take more actions during the course of the game. And again, mentioned these private spaces that you can pick up by traveling around the map, so that will allow you to place more workers. So for practical purposes, you're gonna be taking more than the 10 actions, but it does make for a fairly quick game. This is a game that is fairly complicated, and yet our first game, which again was not without some confusion and questions, we ended up wrapping that up in about ninety minutes.

说到这九十分钟，除开是初次体验的因素，规则书的混乱程度堪称行业公认的灾难级。我首次研读时就发现大量问题，上网查询时看到无数玩家抱怨类似情况。后来才得知现在有经过多次修订的线上动态规则书，修正了版图和配件上的诸多错误表述。即便如此我们仍有疑问，这种规则书问题对部分玩家可能是致命缺陷。

So so pretty quick. Speaking of that ninety minutes, now aside from it being our first game, the elephant in the room as to why we had confusion in that first game is that the rule book is, I would say, as close as you can get to being able to call an acknowledged disaster without actually saying it's an acknowledged disaster. Now I say that. So I read the rule book for the first time to prepare for for game night without knowing all these things that were going on in the rule book, and I found myself having a number of questions after reading it. So I looked it up online, looked the questions up online, and I found a ton of people complaining about similar issues.

因此强烈建议玩家务必查阅修订版规则书，原始版本简直是一团乱麻。不过就游戏本身而言，当前动态规则书已足够完善。我很欣赏游戏的许多设计，之前提及设计师Tascini的T系列时，觉得最贴切的参照其实是他另一款非T系列作品——《马可波罗》。

And that's where I learned that there is currently a living rule book that is available online that has been tweaked and clarified a number of times. It's clarified a number of rules, and in some cases, a number of misprints that are on the board or on pieces of the game. That said, we still had questions after that, and honestly, the issues with the rule book might be disqualifying by itself to some people. I I I can totally understand that. It seems like most issues have been worked out, but still the situation is not super great in that respect.

有趣的是，在你说出这个类比前，我看着版图就有这种预感。

So I would say if you're gonna play the game, make sure to go online and read the revised rule book because the first one is almost an unadulterated mess. As far as the game itself though, so yes, there is a a living modified rule book now that I think works well enough. So as far as the game itself, there's a lot of things that I like. I mentioned the other t games when I brought up the designer Tashini and the t series of games. But I think the most illustrative comparison was one of for this game is one of Tashini's non t games, specifically Marco Polo.

知道哪里好笑吗？在你开口前，不知为何我看着版图就预感你会这么说。所以这还挺酷的，是什么让你...

Like You know what's funny? Before you said that, I don't know why, but looking at this board, I kind of thought that's what you were gonna say. So that's that's cool. What made you

看着版图产生这种联想？纯粹好奇。就是一种直觉。好吧，就是那种感觉对上了。

think that looking at the board? That's out of curiosity. This is just a gut feeling. Okay. It's just the vibe.

那纯粹是一种直觉。对。好吧。所以我提到的一个关联点是与原版《马可波罗》的相似性——就像原版《马可波罗》游戏一样，这款游戏的节奏非常紧凑。考虑到相对较少的回合数，这正是我热爱《马可波罗》的原因之一。每次玩的时候，我都觉得游戏总比预期提前一轮结束，让人意犹未尽。

It was it was just a gut feeling. Yeah. Okay. So one of the things I've brought up sort of you'll see a tie with the original Marco Polo because like the original Marco Polo game, this game is quite tight. Again, given the few number of turns you're gonna take relatively speaking, and why I loved that in Marco Polo, it's one of the reasons I love Marco Polo, is is I feel like it's a game that ends one round too early every single time I play it, and always leaves you wanting more.

但在《跨银河系》中，这种紧凑感显得过于束缚。我试图实现许多目标，但当规划行动方案时，发现所需资源消耗过大——要么占用极其有限的动作次数，要么耗尽本就稀缺的游戏资源。相比之下，《马可波罗》虽然也有约束感，但更像是需要根据版图状态选择最有趣的策略路径；而《跨银河系》的束缚感则让人喘不过气。

Here, that tightness felt overly restrictive. There were a lot of things that I was trying to get or achieve in TransCalactica, and then I realized as I was trying to like formulate my plan to accomplish whatever I was trying to accomplish, that it was just gonna be too resource intensive. Either resource intensive in terms of, like, taking up some of my very limited actions, or just, like, taking up my resources because resources themselves are also very, very limited in this game. Whereas with Marco Polo, that gaming also feels restrictive, but it felt like I had to, like, figure out based on board state of what I was going for, which are the fun things I wanted to do I was gonna end up doing. Whereas, it just felt a little too restrictive with Transgalactica.

在这方面，游戏体验更像是工作而非娱乐。不过《跨银河系》有个优点：《马可波罗》以极度不对称的随机性著称（虽然'随机'这个词不太准确），而本作保留了部分这种特质。之前提到的科技轨道上有些卡牌效果非常强力，由于所有玩家都能通过推进轨道获取，这种设计削弱了随机性，更强调实现酷炫操作的可能性。

And it felt more work than fun in that respect. The other thing, which is a positive with Transgalactic, I think, in general, is that Marco Polo is known for being a game that is, like, very very swingy is not the right word, but, like, asymmetric in a in really, really wild ways. Transgalactic has some flavors of that. I mentioned the science track before. Some of the cards on the science track felt very very powerful and cool, and the fact that anybody can sort of move up that track and get them makes that feel less swingy, to use the term I just used, and more of like ability to like do cool things.

当然，若选择耗费资源攀登科技轨道获取那些强力效果，就意味着要放弃其他众多可能——毕竟资源如此紧张，每个决策都会带来机会成本。这款游戏还让我联想到Lacerta公司的作品，特别是久违的《银河竞逐者》（记忆可能不准）。两者相似处在于极少的工人放置位点和跟随机制，不过本作没有《银河竞逐者》中那种连锁反应式的齿轮传动系统，行动效果更直接明了。

Now, if you're gonna take the resources to move up the science track to get those cool things, it's going to be at the cost of a lot of other things that you're gonna want to do or potentially wanna do because again, things are so tight and resources are so thin that if you decide to do something, it's again gonna cost you in terms of other things that you're gonna be wanting to do. The other type of game this felt a lot like are the Lacerta games. Specifically, would say, and it's been a long time since I played this game, so, you know, memory may be a little off, but felt a lot like the Galarist in that the Galarist only has a few worker placement spots, and you can follow your opponents in the Galarist. So there is that. So this felt similar in that way.

与许多Lacerta游戏（尤其是《银河竞逐者》）类似的是：每次放置主工人时，你都需要观察对手版图，选择他们无法跟随的时机——这样既能独占收益，又能封锁对方行动。反过来，若预判某行动会被其他玩家执行，就该保留主工人，用次级工人跟随以节省行动次数。这种博弈正是游戏的精妙之处，每个动作都因严苛限制而显得分量十足。

And also the way that with a lot of Losartan games, and specifically the Galarist is, you're gonna take one worker placement spot, and there aren't as many gears shifting in this as there are in Galarist, where one thing will lead to a lot of other things, think in Galarist and a lot of Losartan games. Things a little more clear cut here, but because you again are so constricted that one action does feel quite weighty, and there's a lot of and this is a cool part of the game. There's a lot of because people can follow you, you will often, when you're placing your your main worker down, you're gonna often wanna do that at times where looking at other players boards, you know they can't follow you. So a, you get the benefit and b, they can't take that action. And then conversely, if you know you wanna take an action and you think somebody else around the table is gonna take the same action, you often want to conserve your main workers and use your smaller workers to follow them, thereby sort of saving you an action.

所以它的互动性是体现在这个层面。这是一种不会伤害其他玩家的互动方式，不是那种消极的互动，而是一种积极的互动。当然，你也需要适时阻挡。

So it is interactive in that way. It's interactive in a way that is not like hurting other players. It's not that negative sort of interaction. It's a it's like a positive sort of interaction. Again, although you also wanna be blocking.

但我确实喜欢这种互动性中的考量——比如我需要确保自己是这个行动的主导者，还是可以退后一步跟随他人？这部分让我非常享受。不过总体而言，《Transgalactica》是款我实在难以喜欢的游戏。虽然T系列有些作品我很中意，比如《Zulkin》《Tiltum》和《Teotuacon》，但我向来不是这个系列的忠实粉丝。

But I I I liked that aspect of the interactivity that like consideration as to like, do I need to make sure I'm the main person on this action or can I hold back and hopefully follow? So that I really enjoyed. But overall, Transgalactica was a game that I unfortunately did not really enjoy. I'm not the biggest fan in general of the t series of games, although there's some that I really like. I I do really like Zulkin, I really liked Tiltum, I like Teotuacon as well.

这个系列里确实有几款我玩得开心，比如炼金术主题的那部《Tris Tris Mischist》我就非常不喜欢。虽然我对本作的厌恶程度不及那款，但确实也算不上喜欢。只是感觉它差一点就能打动我了。

So there are some that I've enjoyed. I did not really like Tris Tris Mischist, whatever that one was, the one about alchemy. I really did not like that one. I don't think I disliked this one as much as that, but yeah, this was a game that I I did not like. But it just it felt it felt close.

我通常很欣赏Lacerda设计的游戏，也喜欢本作流畅的节奏、那些策略考量以及略带野性的不对称设计，但整体感觉束缚感过强。再者，规则书的问题确实影响体验——即便有澄清说明，某些细节仍显模糊，这很扫兴。总而言之，很难推荐《Transgalactica》，但如果你是T系列的狂热粉丝，又能接受一本尚待完善的规则书（用'进行中作品'形容可能过于负面了）的话...

It felt like I do like Lacerda games in general, and I liked how quickly this game moved, and I liked the considerations and the that little bit of of like wild asymmetry, but it just felt a little too constrictive. And again, the the rule book issues did really hurt. Even with clarifications, there were some points that that were still a little unclear and that was sort of a bummer. So all in all, hard to suggest Transgalactica. But I think if you're a really big fan of the t series of games, and you're okay with a rule book that is I think work in progress is too negative a way of describing it.

我认为目前规则大体已完善，但其中存在的模糊地带可能会让玩家困惑或不满。确实会有喜欢这款游戏的人，只是受众规模本可以更大——如果做出几处调整的话。这就是Daniel Tashini与Devere Games推出的《Transgalactica》。

I think I think it things have pretty much been figured out, but, you know, there is an ambiguity there that might throw people off or people might find disagreeable. But I I do think that there are people who will enjoy the game. I I just it's not as big a market or a number of people as I think it could have been given a couple of of changes. You know? So, yeah, that is Transgalactica by Daniel Tashini and Devere Games.

我觉得和你一样，我经常在寻找下一款会让我爱上的Tashini游戏，因为我非常喜欢他之前的许多作品。但确实感觉已经有一段时间没有一款真正大热的游戏了。我想说，我同意你对Tilitem的评价，它可能是他近期作品中让我感觉最扎实的一款。至于Teotihuacan，我喜欢但不算热爱，之后的作品在我看来都不太出彩。

I think like you, I'm, like, often I'm always on the lookout for the next Tashini game that I'm gonna love because I I have loved so many of his older games, but it does feel like it's been a while since one has really hit in a big way. Like, I I will say, I will echo what you said about Tilitem. Like, Tilitem is probably the one of his more recent ones that has felt really, really solid to me. But, yeah, I mean, Teotihuacan, I liked but didn't love, but I it's kind of been yeah. It's not been great since then in my opinion.

是的。我还想快速补充一点，虽然这对我而言通常不算大事——但游戏的配件和桌游呈现效果真的太棒了。老兄，我很高兴你提到了这点。

Yeah. I also just wanna really quickly say, and this is not maybe I didn't mention this because it's it's generally not a big deal for me, but the components and the table presence and all that, thought were fantastic. Dude. Like, it's a I'm glad you said

我正打算说这个呢。根据你的描述和看到的图片，这款游戏的美术设计确实令人惊艳。

it because I was just about to say that. If there's one thing I do have to say just based on your description, but by looking mostly at pictures of this, it is gorgeous.

没错。这是一款太空主题游戏，幸好色彩非常丰富。虽然有些人觉得版图有点杂乱，但我觉得它色彩明快、引人入胜。配件也特别精美——又大又厚实，造型别致。

Yes. Yeah. So it's a space game that is thankfully, like, full of color. And I think some people find the board a little busy, but I just found it, like, colorful and bright and inviting and interesting, and I really like that. The components are also like really really good looking, like they're big and chunky and interesting.

每个派系的米宝都有不同的切割方式，玩家个人面板和所有米宝也都色彩鲜艳。唯一缺点是——虽然对我影响不大——但所有米宝和许多配件都需要贴贴纸，这个过程极其耗时。有些贴纸质量不佳，比如圆柱形空间站的贴纸容易脱落，最后只能用胶带固定。

There's like each faction's meeples are cut different ways, and your personal boards and all the meeples are also again very bright and colorful. The one negative, and this is not really a big deal to me, but it may be big deal to some, is like, there are stickers for all the meeples and all a lot of the components, and the stickering takes forever. And some of the stickers are not great. There are there's like a cylindrical, like, your space stations are cylindrical, and the stickers don't really, like, stick well. So you have to, like, tape them on if you're gonna do that.

贴纸确实提升了配件观感，让整体更明亮多彩，但就像规则书的问题一样——你本以为这些基础环节应该做得更完善。不过双层玩家板非常精美扎实，这方面还是有很多优点的。

Like, they really enhance the components. They make things, like, even more brighter and colorful and welcoming, but it's just like it's also it feels like something akin to what happened with the rule book. It's like, you would think you'd wanna make sure that both those are sort of like really figured out. Also, those just like slight bummers. But again, once you get the stickers on everything and and presents and dual layer boards, which are beautiful and great and like really substantial, a lot of really good things about it.

可惜在几个关键环节上还是差了口气。

But they just fall short, think, in a couple crucial ways unfortunately.

好的，在进入节目其他环节前，插播一条提醒：我们非常欢迎听众提问。如果发送邮件至boardgamebarrage@gmail.com，你的问题可能会被我们在节目中读出。此外，我们也持续征集能启发未来节目的话题或普通问题——即便不适合本期，也可能成为专题节目的素材。

Okay. Well, before we get on to the rest of the show, just a little quick shout out in the middle here with another reminder just that we love to get your questions on the show. And, you know, if you send them in at boardgamebarrage@gmail.com, you have a chance to have them read on episodes like this one. In addition, we're always on the lookout for great topics or just general questions that could inspire future episodes of the show. If it's not an episode like this one, it might just be something that we turn into a feature topic.

投稿方式有两种：发送邮件至boardgamebarrage@gmail.com，或访问boardgamebarrage.com/topics填写表单。现在让我们进入听众来信环节...等等，马克？

And if you wanted to submit those, you could either email them to us at boardgamebarrage@gmail.com, or you can head up to boardgamebarrage.com/topics and submit them on the form there. Okay. Let us move on to the mailbag portion. Oh oh, what, Mark?

来了来了

Here comes this

我这儿有。干吧。我刚拿到它，这是个——这是个——这是个大的——这是个超大的邮包。

I have here. Do it. I I just got it's it's a it's a it's a big it's a big mailbag.

你那个袋子可真够大的。

That's big sack you got there.

是啊。是啊。是啊。是啊。嘿。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey.

等一下。给我——给我一秒钟。

Hold on. Just give me give me one second.

你知道吗，我觉得你手是不是沾到果酱了还是怎么的，因为那根本不是邮包。它像个——

You know, I think you put your hands in the jelly or something because that's not a mailbag. It's like a

我还在呢。好吧。我回来了。我回来了。哇哦。

I'm still here. Okay. Well, I'm back. I'm back. Wow.

你回来了。在邮包里。脏兮兮的。我整个人都钻进去了。

You're back. In the mailbag. Dirty. I was all up inside that thing.

哇哦。刚才真是...好吧。够激烈的。

Wow. That was Okay. Intense.

天啊。好吧。我这儿有些邮件。我有几封信。看看有什么？

Gosh. Okay. I got some mail here. I got some mail. What do got here?

我们这儿有什么？好。这封是杰里米寄来的。杰里米说，最近我在Instagram上，由于算法总给我推新发售的桌游，突然冒出来一款被描述为'温馨'的游戏。说实话，听起来糟透了。

What do we got here? Okay. This one comes in from Jeremy. Jeremy says, recently, I was on Instagram, and since the algorithm apparently says show me new release board games, one popped up that described the game as cozy. Frankly, it sounded terrible.

我觉得这可能是你们讨论起来会很有趣的话题。我相信你和大多数听众都会收到大量Kickstarter上定向推送的桌游广告，但什么会让你停下来点击了解更多？又有什么会让你立刻划走？我觉得这个问题很有意思，因为最近这种现象越来越普遍——无论是诱人的横幅广告，还是我之前玩TikTok和Instagram时刷到的那些短视频小剧场，如今桌游营销的投入力度确实越来越大了。是的，这个领域现在竞争非常激烈。

I thought it might be a fun topic for you guys to discuss. I'm sure you and most of your listeners get tons of targeted board game in Kickstarter ads, but what would make you stop and tap on learn more, or what are the immediate no's? I think it's a fun question because I feel like this has been happening more and more where I see a lot of, like, you know, enticing banner ads or I you know, I'm not on TikTok anymore, the time I was on TikTok and Instagram, you would see just these occasional short reels of stuff, and there's a lot more that is going into quite intense board game marketing these days. Yeah. And it it's a crowded space.

我们Discord里有个众筹频道我偶尔会关注，但如今新项目实在太多了，经常很难判断哪些值得花时间。所以你对这个问题有什么高见？当你看到某个游戏广告时，有没有什么元素会让你觉得'哇，这个有点意思'？

We have our crowdfunding channel in the Discord that I sort of try to pay attention to, but there is so much stuff getting kick started these days that, you know, it it's often hard to know which of these are worth my time and which ones aren't. So, like, what's your hot take on the question mark? Is there anything that jumps out at you when you see an ad for a game that's like, okay. That's intriguing. That's interesting.

没错。顺着你刚才说的，其实我在节目里提过，我本身不算Kickstarter深度用户，但通过我们Discord社区支持的项目反而最成功——这又要夸夸我们的Discord了。因为真正懂行的听众会分享他们对新游戏的见解，这种口碑推荐对我来说成功率最高。

Yeah. So I would say, just to piggyback off what you just mentioned, in general, I've I've said this on the show before, like, I'm not really in too much into kickstartering. Like, in general, I don't kickstart too much or gamefound too much, but some of the my biggest successes with kickstarting and and gamefounding games is via our Discord. This is just another shout out to our Discord. Like, I find that our listeners who, you know, really know about games that are coming out or are passionate about games, reading their descriptions of them or why they like them has been some of my most ultimately successful ways to find games.

我必须强调这点，因为对我而言，广告轰炸再多也比不上信任的人说'这个可能真不错'。这比设计师名气什么的都重要得多。只要是我认可的游戏爱好者推荐的，就会优先考虑。

So I just wanna shout that out real quick because because I think that's actually the biggest thing. Like, for me, you can throw as many ads as you want, but if a person I trust says like, oh, I actually think this might be cool, that's gonna be the number one thing that's gonna make me consider it. Far in a way more than anything else. More than designer, more than anything. If somebody I know who is is really passionate about it or knows something about it, that's gonna be the biggest thing.

当然设计师名气也很重要。

But designer is gonna be a big thing.

确实。

Yeah.

我很高兴Kickstarter这类平台能给新人设计师机会，这可能是它最棒的功能。但具体到支持决策，我还是会优先选择知名设计师。比如看到Kinesia在Kickstarter上的项目，至少能保证基本品质——未必会成为我的心头好，但肯定会多花时间研究。

I'm I'm happy that Kickstarter and the like like allow for relatively unknown or lesser known designers to have a a platform, and I think that's one of the the best things about it, if not the best thing about Kickstarter and stuff like that. But when it comes to, like, where I'm going to back in general, it's going to be for designers that I know. So, like, if I see a Kinesia on on Kickstarter, that infers, like, a baseline level of quality to me that I I know that I'm okay. It's gonna be a a solid game. May not be my happy game, ultimately, but I'm gonna give it more thought or I'm gonna dive into it a little bit more.

Martin Wallace这些有过合作的设计师也是同理。对我而言，设计师履历是决定是否深入了解的关键因素。这个答案应该适用于多数人...

Martin Wallace, all that, you know, anybody that I've I've had experience with, that's gonna be the I think the probably the biggest thing for me in terms of, like, taking the next step into learning more. I think that's exactly the right answer for me, which

对设计师来说确实如此。举个最近的例子：Tashini有款新文明类游戏即将众筹。只要是Tashini的作品我都会特别关注，更何况还带着'文明'这个关键词——这类硬核题材永远是我的兴奋点。

is it is for most designers. So so funny enough, an example for me recently is I think Tashini has a new civ game that is hitting Kickstarter sometime soon. Like I just said, I'm always hungry for a Tashini game I'm gonna like, so I'm gonna be paying attention to that, for example. Civilization game is also, like, a a key word that activates me. So, you know, like, stuff like that.

只要在GameFound或Kickstarter看到'文明'、'4X'这类高难度类型，或者像Bytewing的Rainer Knutzia这样我持续关注的设计师有新作，就会像你刚才说的那样格外留意。意大利设计师群体和Keyslig、Kramer这些名字出现时也一样。

If I see a game found or a starter that just says civilization or four x or a couple of these hard to get right genres of games I'm always searching for the next big one of or a designer who I'm hungry to get a good good game out of. Like, Bytewing, for example, I've been doing a lot of stuff with Rainer Knutzer recently. I'm always gonna pay attention to those for the same reasons you just described. I'm always gonna be paying attention to the Italian designers whenever they have something out on Kickstarter or GameFound. Keyslig and Kramer, the same.

有些设计师的作品只要在众筹平台上线，我就一定会关注。虽然不至于盲目支持，但至少会深入研究规则之类的细节。对出版商的态度也类似，不过这种情况越来越少了。比如Mind Clash这样的公司，尽管他们近期的作品质量参差不齐，但我对他们开发的游戏类型依然很感兴趣——那些融合了我喜欢的机制、拥有精美艺术设计的宏大主题游戏，通常很对我的胃口。

They're just there are certain designers who I'm just gonna pay attention when they have something coming up in crowdfunding. I'm not necessarily gonna back it like sight unseen, but I will, at the very least, dig into the rules, that sort of thing. And the same kind of extends to publishers, although this is happening less and less. But I will say that someone like a mind clash, for example, like, I think that their hit rate has been uneven recently, but I'm still very interested in the sorts of games they are making, all that sort of combination of mechanics that I like and they're like big thematic games with good art. That usually does it for me.

艺术风格也是重要因素。就像今天我在Discord看到有人讨论《Satchel Quest》，这款游戏有Vincent Dutre的绝美插画。当有人介绍说'看这Vincent Dutre的画风，这是个地牢冒险游戏'时，这简直完美击中我的偏好。

Art is another really big one. Like actually just today, I saw someone in the Discord post about Satchel Quest, which has lovely Vincent Dutre art. And that's kind of also another perfect storm for me where someone says, okay. You you see the Vincent Dutre art. It says adventure dungeon game.

我当时的反应就是：好吧，这听起来至少值得我点进去看看。不过现在通常要满足两三个条件，我才会费劲去翻看Kickstarter页面。

And I'm just like, okay. Yeah. That's that sounds like something I will at least take a look at. Yeah. It does usually have to at least tick, like, I would say two or three boxes these days for me to, like, go to the effort of, like, trying to dig through the the the Kickstarter.

部分原因是我知道自己容易冲动支持项目。所以正在努力克制。说来有趣，刚才浏览BGG时看到《Ascendancy Underworld》——一款受4X游戏启发的工人放置类游戏正在众筹，这个组合立刻激活了我的兴趣雷达。

Part of that is also because I know I'm susceptible just to back stuff without really thinking about it too long. So I'm trying to avoid that. But, yeah, right now, it's funny enough. As I was looking at BGG, there's Ascendancy Underworld, a four x inspired worker placement game on the Kickstarter. And that's kicking off some, triggers in my brain.

当然，当然会去看看。不过根据经验，BGG横幅广告的游戏往往经不起细看，对吧？

Sure. Sure. Take a look at that. Although, I I I tend to feel that the ones that get banner ads on BGG tend to always look like garbage when you dig into them more. Right.

所以我不会...

So I don't

确实如此。

know. Yeah.

不是要刻意贬低《Descendants the Underworld》——虽然我对它一无所知。

Not to throw, like, too much shade at Descendants the Underworld that I don't know anything about.

明白。话说我现在看BGG，横幅广告是《Root》，那就没问题了。

But Right. Right. Right. And I in fact, I'm looking at BGG now, and the banner ad is for Root. So that's Okay.

啊，这就说得通了。

Well, there we go.

是啊，垃圾。这可能可能是个众筹项目。也可能不是众筹，可能不适用。对。

Yeah. Garbage. This may this may may be a Kickstarter. It may not be a Kickstarter, it may not apply. Yeah.

我觉得有些特定事物在广告中出现时会吸引我。比如，对我来说非常小众的是历史题材游戏——尤其是现在，因为我发现很难说服人们玩历史游戏。但如今，那些支持单人游玩的历史游戏，我就很有兴趣去众筹。不仅因为这是我喜欢的类型，还因为这类游戏往往销量不佳，所以众筹可能是我获得它的最佳途径。我大部分游戏都是通过交换得来的。

I think there are some certain things that get me interested when I see them, you know, advertised. Like, I mean, very niche y to me is, like, if I see historical games, especially nowadays, because I just find historical games, like, tough to convince people to play. But, like so nowadays, historical games that play solo, I'm very interested in potentially kick starting. Not only because it's a niche that I like, also because I think those games often sell too much, and so, like, Kickstarter may be one of my best ways to get it. Like, I I will again, I trade for most of my games or something like along the lines of trading usually.

但像《总统先生》这种游戏我就会去众筹，因为它是单人历史模拟游戏而非战争游戏，我估计很难找到多少人愿意交换它，毕竟市场需求不大。其他像强调互动性或短时长的游戏也很吸引我。现在我有意识地寻找适合与非玩家亲友共度的简单易学游戏，这类作品最近特别吸引我去尝试或深入研究。

But, like mister president was the type of game that I would kick start because it was like a solo game that was like not a war game in that case, but like a historical simulation that I thought would probably be hard to find too many people that were trading it because there probably wasn't a huge market for it. But also other things like interactive, any games that highlight their interactivity or highlight their shorter playtime. And nowadays, because I'm trying to be more cognizant of having games to play with non gaming family and friends, games that are simple to teach are also games that have recently been ones that I'm interested in checking out or diving it more into.

你关于短时长的观点很对。实际上，最让我立刻对众筹失去兴趣的就是看到游戏时长超过两小时——我直接关页面。不是因为所有长时游戏都差劲，我自己也喜欢不少长时游戏。

You make a good point there about shorter play times. One of the biggest things that actually will instantly turn me away from a Kickstarter is that if I click through a Kickstarter and I see that it's a two hour plus game, I'm just I'm done. I'm like, I I'm not even gonna pay attention. And not because I think all two hour plus games are bad, to be clear. Like, you know, I I I love a lot of longer games.

特别是在众筹领域

But especially in the Kickstarter realm

有意思。

Interesting.

总觉得这通常是因为设计不够精炼，他们只是堆砌元素而没有打磨。我不太相信众筹平台上长时游戏的设计初衷是合理的。

Often feel like it is usually the result of just an unrefined design that they didn't really they just kind of threw everything at the design. They haven't really taken the point to extreme I'm not very quick to trust that a very long game on Kickstarter is because it's long for the right reasons.

这很有趣，因为我的经验没你丰富。对我来说三小时是分界线，超过就会减分。但你说众筹游戏超过两小时就变得不可靠？

It's it's very interesting because I would have for me and I don't have as much experience, I I would say, as you in terms of, like, getting Kickstarter games and and experiencing them. But for me, like, the cutoff is, like, three hours. Like, I see something that's three hours, then it's a sort of a negative. But you're saying your experience with Kickstarter specifically two hour plus has proven to be a little That that and sinky.

嗯，两小时倒不是我的绝对界限...但三小时肯定是。超过两小时我就会开始怀疑了。

Well, yeah. I I don't think that, like, two hours is would be hard cut off for me. Yeah. Yeah. But it is think three hours would be a hard cut off.

超过两小时的话，我就会开始皱眉了。

But but but above two, that's where I'm, like, squinting a little bit.

我明白了。

I see.

有意思。确实。我得好好说服自己接受这一点。

Interesting. Yeah. It's gonna I would really have to justify that to me.

说到危险信号，既然提到了，我之前说过，任何传承或战役类游戏我都敬谢不敏。这很有趣，因为我至今仍清晰记得2018年节目最初几期，那时我们还对传承机制充满热情，觉得无论什么题材的传承游戏都值得尝试——它们蕴含的可能性太吸引人了。但现在，除非是单人传承游戏，否则传承或战役机制对我来说就是最大的危险信号。哪怕游戏时长五小时，只要标榜多人传承，我就直接放弃。

Okay. Speaking of red flag, now that we brought them up, I've mentioned this before, but anything legacy or campaign, I'm out. It's really interesting because I still remember very, very vividly the first couple episodes of the show, like, back in 2018 when we first started out and being, like, still really high on the legacy thing and, like, just thinking, like, I would be interested in legacy games pretty much no matter what because of the potential that they offered. Like, god, they could you could do so many things with legacy and they'd be so cool, but I've just gotten to a point where, like, legacy is, if it's not solo, legacy or campaign is, like, the most ultimate red flag. A game could be five hours, and I would think about it.

如果是多人传承游戏，那就彻底没戏。

But if it's legacy and it's multiplayer, it's done. It's off.

我倒没这么排斥传承游戏了。理论上我依然喜欢这个机制。不过战役游戏确实...我曾过分沉迷收集多人战役游戏，多到根本玩不过来。现在正为此付出代价——ISS先锋号、霜寒迷城、誓约之盟等等一堆游戏堆着没动。

I'm down not that harsh on legacy anymore. I I still like it in theory. I think campaign games, certainly, like, I I went too hard down the rabbit hole of just getting I mean, more multiplayer campaign games that any person could reasonably play and Right. You know, I'm now suffering for having ISS Vanguard and Frosthaven and Oathsworn and etcetera etcetera etcetera. So yes.

我不会再支持这类游戏了。这对我也是个教训。我们继续下一个问题？

I I will not back to any of those anymore. Think that's that's true for me as well. Should we move on to another question?

好啊。

Yeah. Sure.

接下来是艾伦的提问：'很喜欢你们的单人游戏特辑。我桌上常备着魔法骑士，其实我以前也这样。'

Okay. This next one comes in from Alan. And Alan says, love the solo game episode. I have a game of Mage Knight that I keep out on my table. I used to do this too actually for what it's worth.

我想知道故事性是否是吸引你们的要素——不是指自然衍生的故事。我听丹·索罗谈论游戏叙事时，他认为桌游永远讲不好故事。你们怎么看？感谢这档精彩节目。

I'm curious if story sorry. That was my editorializing. I'm curious if story is ever a draw for you guys when it comes to games. And I don't mean emergent, but I was listening to Dan Thoreau talk about storytelling in games, and he says he doesn't think that board games are ever good at it. I'm curious about your thoughts.

这个问题很有意思。我不完全认同桌游不擅长叙事的观点（并非要否定丹·索罗），但具体来说，桌游更擅长呈现玩家驱动的故事。

Thanks for the great show. Yeah. This is interesting. I I don't know that I would agree that board games are bad at storytelling, and I don't mean to naysay what Dan Thoreau is saying here. But, like, I would say specifically, board games are good at player driven stories.

对吧？这可能不是人们谈论叙事时特指的内容，但第四站对我来说总是一个典型例子，它讲述的故事存在于桌面上，但主要由玩家的行动呈现。每局第四站都会产生有趣的、不同于机械操作的故事。你知道，每款游戏都在讲故事，但第四站真的试图让你感觉像是盒子里正在上演一部愚蠢的科幻电影。对吧？

Right? This is maybe not what people talk about when they talk about storytelling specifically, but, like, Station four is kind of always a go to example for me of, like, the story that Station four tells you is one that exists on the table, but is mostly brought to you by the actions that the player takes. There are fun stories that come out of every game of Station four that are just different from, oh, I did this mechanically, then I did this mechanically, and I did this. Like, you know, every game tells a story, but, like, Station four really tries to make that feel like here's this dumb sci fi movie in a box that's playing out. Right?

我认为游戏在叙事方面表现不佳。我不确定这个词是否准确，就是游戏要传达的特定故事情节。我觉得至今还没有哪款游戏能达到其他媒介的顶尖水准。我很想知道有没有例外，比如那些真正写得非常好的游戏。

I think that games are bad at, like, narratives. I don't know if that's exactly the right word where it's kind of like, here is the specific storyline that this game is telling. I feel like no game is really like lived up to I think the best of other mediums for that for me as yet. That'd be curious to get anyone to tell me like the exceptions to that rule. Like, hey, here are the really really well written ones.

是啊。马克，你怎么看？

Yeah. What's your take, Mark?

嗯，我很好奇，因为我本来想说桌游的叙事或讲故事通常对我无效。但你关于《Station Fall》的观点确实有道理，不过它感觉是个例外。也许这反而印证了规律。你能想到其他能产生类似高质量涌现故事（不是叙事设计，而是自然产生的故事）的游戏吗？

Yeah. I'm curious because I was going to say that in general narrative or storytelling, generally never works for me when it comes to board games. But your point about Station Fall does ring true to me, but Station Fall feels like such an exception. Maybe that proves the rule. Can you think of other games that have that sort of same emergent high quality story not storytelling, but, like, emergent stories to you?

我有点

I'm sort of

在为难你，因为...不，真的很难。虽然有些游戏做得不错，但它们基本都在重复同类故事。比如《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》对我来说一直是个好例子。

putting you on the spot because, like, no. No. No. It's hard, but because, like, I I think there there are some games that I think that, like, do it well, but they're kind of all hammering in on, like, kind of the same story retold. Like, you know, Battlestar Galactica was always a good example for me.

我希望有款游戏能自带精彩故事线，但这类游戏往往基于现有IP，玩家需要自带对IP的理解。我不确定完全不了解《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》的人能否获得和我同样的体验。不过...真想不出其他做得好的游戏。科尔·韦尔利的作品或许算个例子。

I would like a game that, like, generally had an interesting story to its arc, but a, that's heavily derived from an existing license where you're kind of bringing a lot of what that license is in your head already to it. I don't know that if someone that doesn't know Battlestar Galactica at all gets the same experience of the playing BSG as, you know, someone like myself does. But, like, no. I can't think of any other good games that really do it. Like, Cole Whirly games, I think, are maybe a good example.

确实。虽然这类游戏从没打动过我，但我能理解。像《抵抗组织》这类社交推理游戏确实会产生精彩故事，但感觉更像是机制衍生物，而非精心设计的叙事。

Sure. Although, they've never really worked for me on that front, but I I can see that. But other types of social deduction games, I think, like the resistance, you do get those, like, cool stories, but that feels like, it's definitely emergent storytelling. Maybe it's not the the right language, but emergent narrative or whatever. But it feels like almost like a byproduct of the mechanism more than something that's, like, planned out.

至于预设叙事，我觉得从未奏效过。这其实关联到我上个问题的回答——这也是战役和传承游戏不适合我的部分原因。更主要的原因是持续召集同一批人每周重复参与的难度。

But as far as narrative story, I don't think it's ever worked for me. And I think that's to to sort of talk about the the answer I just gave for the last question. I think it's part of the reason that campaigns and legacy don't work for me. I think the bigger reason is just the commitment, trying to get a bunch of people to commit to showing up week after week for the same thing over and over again. I think that's a bigger problem.

但另一个大问题是：理论上，传承游戏或战役游戏要求玩家投入大量时间，回报应该是沉浸式精彩故事。可我从未发现任何游戏故事足够吸引人。可能因为我的竞技型游戏偏好——我总是想着'跳过剧情直接玩'，这种心态确实不利于叙事体验。但真希望能有个好故事打动我，可惜至今未遇。

But the another big problem is that, like, theoretically, the trade off you get for putting that much commitment into a legacy game or into a campaign game is you are going to be plunged into this really excellent story. I've never found any story as part of a game to be anywhere near engaging enough to, like, make it a a huge positive to the experience. Now again, that's just maybe the way I play games as I professed myself, like, the competition is important and maybe I'm just like, okay, the story story, whatever, get get through, we get through it, let's get to the game. I think that is part of, like, my mindset when I'm playing games and that's like a detriment to narrative that is my own doing. But I would have hoped that there would been maybe a story good enough to, like, lock me in, but it's it's just never been the case that I've I've found a narrative hooky enough to make that, like, a big part of my experience.

确实如此。我们正在讨论的那些突发性内容。

It's much more Yeah. The emergent stuff we're talking about.

完全同意。我能想到一两个类似的例子。比如《污痕圣杯》，如果不是因为它的世界观构建和叙事吸引我，我可能不会坚持玩那么久——虽然有时也说不准。但我确实认为...

Totally. And, you know, like, I can think of maybe an example or two that gets close for me. Like, I do think that, like, I wouldn't have stuck with tainted grail, for example, as long as I did if it wasn't that I actually felt that the world building and then and narrative again, maybe yes, no, maybe. I do think specifically

我觉得如果我们...

I I think if we

要区分世界观构建（有些桌游做得很好）和具体的情节推进。后者我认为桌游很难做好，因为很多时候你只是在阅读大量文本或过场动画，这些内容本质上与游戏体验是割裂的。

draw the distinction between, like, world building, which I do think some board games do quite well, but specifically, like, the the a to b plot. Like, I just I just don't think that that's a that that's not something that board games necessarily can do well because I think a lot of the time that is just, hey. You're gonna be reading a bunch of this text or watching this cutscene or just reading a lot of stuff that is, like, secondary to to the game.

我完全同意。依赖大量阅读来理解故事的桌游通常不适合我。比如《福尔摩斯探案》——虽然听说口碑很好，但最大的障碍在于：你要说服一群人围着桌子花几个小时，我甚至准备了猎鹿帽想搞角色扮演，结果却变成互相朗读大段文本。

And I just don't think a lot of board games have I think board games that rely on you reading a lot to absorb this story just don't often work for me. I will 100% agree with you. Like, that was again, I I I've told this story before, but I was so excited about Sherlock Holmes, playing Sherlock Holmes that I heard Story. Yeah. Good things about it.

虽然某些情境下可能有效，或者有人能演得很出彩，但这不符合我的游戏方式。如果是角色扮演游戏可能另当别论，但作为桌游总让我焦虑——召集大家来却变成互相朗读，还要强装享受。

But the, like, the biggest stumbling block for me is, like, you convince all these people to sit around table, devote some hours to it, whatever. Like, I was even gonna have people wear, like, deerstalker caps and, like, do the whole Sherlock Holmes thing. And then it just it just devolved into, like, reading big chunks of text to one another. And and and I I I can see circumstances where that would really work, or people who could really play it up and make it really really fun. I I get that.

这种模式会带来奇怪的压力感，我总忍不住想：这样真的有趣吗？

It's just not it's not maybe the way I play games are not the way that I'm like sort of wired when it comes to board games specifically. I can see if I was like in an RPG situation where that was like going in, this is like the main thing, like acting and and playing these roles is the biggest thing, but it just never worked. And I always feel I always feel bad that I'm like, I've asked these people because usually I'm the person rallying people to come play the game, and then it's just like, I'm reading something to you, you're reading something to me, like, let's try to make sure we enjoy this, and it's just like, it puts this like weird pressure to me. Like, I feel anxious, like, we're just reading to each other. Like, is this fun sort of thing?

我懂你的感受。

I get you.

我深有同感。不过也有接近成功的例子，比如Nikki Valens设计的《工匠与华幕》——虽然本质上就是你描述的那种朗读游戏，但...

I I I've had I've been in that exact same situation. I I will say that the, like, you know, I I while I tend to agree, there are games that have gotten close to me. Like, I I it's probably a while back now, but I spoke about Artisans and Splendid Veil, which is like a Nikki Valens. Like, it is largely literally what you're describing. You're spending a lot of that time literally just reading from your book to the other player.

它通过让每个玩家从特定角色视角朗读专属剧本的设计，配合极具特色的文风，效果很惊艳。这让我想起《龙邸遗韵》——同样是Nikki Valens的作品，虽未亲测但被誉为剧情写作的巅峰。

Yeah. But the way that that's crafted where each of the books is the perspective of a specific character and it's quite bespoke and written from a character's perspective, it has a lot of flavor. Really, I thought that was quite lovely and that does remind me that I've I've often heard that Legacy of Dragon Halt is one of the high points for writing, which is a Yeah. Other Nikki Valens game that I haven't played yet.

我听说Nikki Valens在游戏中的文案写得很好。所以，是的，他们可能确实很出色。

I've heard good things about Nikki Valens writing in in game. So, yeah, they may be exceptional. So

没错。不过这种情况确实罕见。我认为《Vantage》就是个很好的例子，它通过极简的文字实现了叙事与玩法的绝妙融合——每次查阅游戏手册时，你只需读一句话就要掷骰子，这种设计太棒了。

Yeah. It does seem like a rarity though. I do think that Vantage is a good example of a game where the way that it intersects with its storytelling is really quite excellent and it does that by not giving you a lot to read. Anytime you are turning to an entry in a book in Vantage, you're reading one sentence and then telling someone to roll dice. And like that's that's great.

恰到好处的文字既能激发想象力又不会造成负担，这应该是最理想的状态了。好了，我们来看最后一个来自Sergio的问题。Sergio？

It's just enough to give you the flavor to fuel your imagination which is probably the best case scenario honestly. Right. Okay. Let's go into our last question which comes from Sergio. Sergio?

如果发音不准请见谅。当你们玩过这么多游戏后，会对这个爱好感到厌倦吗？我刚踏入桌游世界，觉得一切都新鲜刺激，但你们肯定早过了蜜月期吧？选这个问题是因为昨天我正和网站好友Daniel讨论类似话题：如今什么游戏特质还能让你们兴奋？

I'm sorry if I'm not pronouncing that correctly. When you guys play as many games as you do, do you ever get jaded about the hobby? I'm just starting my board game journey, so everything is new and exciting, but I'm sure you must have passed the honeymoon phase years ago or am I wrong? The reason I chose this one because I was actually having this conversation yesterday with a friend of the site, Daniel, who kind of asked a similar thing. It's like, you know, what do you get excited for in games?

如果长期玩同类游戏，新作感觉像是老游戏混音版，那现在到底什么能点燃你们的热情？Mark，你来开启这个话题吧。

If you're playing a lot of the the same games all the time and new games feel a lot like remixes of old games, like, what is it that actually gets you excited for a game these days? I'll let you open this one, Mark.

确实。我经历过某些时期，不确定用'厌倦'是否准确，或是'倦怠'更接近但又不完全贴切。但肯定...

Yeah. I will say that, yes, I definitely have gone through periods when I feel I don't know if more jaded is the right word or, like, burnt out. These are these are words that are approaching what I wanna say, but not exactly it. But definitely what

抱歉打断，我理解问题的出发点，但绝不会用'厌倦'或'倦怠'形容自己。只是偶尔会遇到创作低谷，但我始终保持着探索的热情。

I have Sorry. Just not not to interrupt you, but, like, I understand the sentiment of the question, but I would never describe my position as jaded or burnt out or tired. It's never that negative. You you just go in swells where you're like, it's been a while since you've seen something that's excites you, but I'm still, like, always searching for it. You know?

有两种情况能打破这种低迷。就像初入坑时根本不会有低谷期，就像小时候看电影——每部都觉得精彩绝伦。

Yeah. And I think that there are two things that can break me out of the lull. And so I think these were much like I I would when I first started the hobby, like, never had a lull. It sort of felt to me like when I was a kid watching movies. Like, when I was a kid, anytime I'd watch a movie, I would love it.

但随着阅片量增加，电影必须要有特别之处才能打动你。桌游也是如此，刚入坑时觉得什么都好玩，现在确实会有兴趣减退的阶段。

It would just be awesome. And then you get to a point where you watch enough movies or you've just learned enough that you like a movie has to like sort of like do something to make it special. And I think that was sort of like same with board games. Like when I first got into the hobby, was like, everything is great. I'll play anything anytime.

能重新点燃我热情的有两点：一是遇到真正的好游戏——不需要革命性机制，但要有巧妙设计。有趣的是，有时反而是长时间游戏更能带来这种体验。

Now, I definitely go through down periods where I'm like, I'm less excited or whatever. And so the two things that knock me out of that and get me excited again are one, playing a really good game. That's a very simple answer, like, maybe they need like a freshness to them or something, some hook. Like, it doesn't have to be like revolutionary mechanism or anything, but like, just something done very cleverly. Playing one game like that, and sometimes that helps when like that game's a long game interestingly enough.

因为我觉得很多短篇游戏可以设计得很巧妙，有个聪明的核心玩法，但时长太短就难以真正打动人心。但如果我玩一款约90分钟到两小时、非常有趣的游戏，就能让我瞬间找回状态——‘啊，这就对了，太酷了，简直酷毙了’。还有就是和朋友玩得特别尽兴的时候，当大家都玩得开心、氛围超棒、一切顺遂时，这种体验总能让我重燃热情。

Because I think a lot of short games can have like a clever hook and be a really clever game, but it's like so short that it doesn't really like move the meter, you know. But I feel like if I play like a, you know, ninety minute two hour game that is like really interesting, that can knock me into, oh, okay, I'm back. Like, this is cool. This is like very very cool. And then the other thing is just, like, if I have a really good game session with friends, if everybody's, like, having a good time and, like, the vibe is really good and everything's working out, it's, that'll reinvigorate me.

比如我们每次聚会后，无论之前我对游戏有多倦怠，接下来几周我都会保持亢奋状态，对游戏重新充满狂热。这种效应屡试不爽，所以要么是遇到惊艳的游戏，要么是和伙伴们共度欢乐时光，总能把我从低谷里拽出来。

Like, I think without fail, like, whenever we get together, no matter what has been my game situation before, when we get together, I'm gonna be riding a crest for the next, you know, couple weeks. I'll be back super super enthusiastic about games. I know that for the next next while. So it's either a really cool game that'll knock me out of that or playing with people and having a really, really good time.

没错。这种低迷期通常不会持续太久，毕竟我们保持着每年两次大型聚会的习惯——虽然现在不怎么参加展会了。但像在拉斯维加斯这样的聚会，总能让我对游戏重燃激情。有时候只需要两款游戏在恰当时机出现，就能让我找回对这个爱好最原始的热情。

Yeah. I think that that's exactly right. Those lulls tend not to last very long for me because, you know, we're we're in the habit of, like, you know, twice a year, like, having big meetups where we independent from conventions, which we're we're not doing as much anymore. But, like, when we come to hang out in Vegas, like, those are always just, like, so so invigorating for, like, you know, getting me excited about games again. But, like, I often think, like, sometimes it just takes, like, two games hitting at the right time for me to feel as as excited as I've ever felt about the hobby ever.

这情况也适用于电影。去年因为疫情导致电影产量下降，很少有真正让我兴奋的作品。但今年突然涌现出《罪人》《武器》《超人》《神奇四侠》这些接连上映的佳作，让我不禁感叹电影真他妈棒！

And, like, I can relate this to actual specific board games, but, like, also kind of similar analogy with movies. Like, I kinda felt a lot of the time last year, you know, COVID movie production, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Like, there was just not a lot of stuff of stuff coming out that was, like, really exciting me. And now suddenly so far this year, there's been, like, stuff like Sinners and Weapons and Superman and Fantastic Four stuff that all hit in quick It's like, man, movies are great. You know?

我现在超级兴奋。

I'm just excited.

懂你意思。

You know? Yeah.

游戏界也是同样情况。就在最近三期节目里，我聊到的《Vantage》《核心解密》和《阿瑞克斯的末日之战》都让我找回了久违的激动——这三款游戏横跨叙事游戏、单人解谜和史诗级一对一微缩模型对战等完全不同的类型。

Yeah. That that happened with games as well. Like, you know, just this year or just in the last let's say the last three episodes of the show, you know, where I was talking about Vantage, I was talking about core of discovery, I was talking about doom war for Arrakis. I was really excited and invigorated by all three of those games in the way that I haven't felt about, you know, a big game like that in a long time. And those are, like, hitting across the spectrum of games, like storytelling games, solo games, epic one v one, like, miniature games.

它们就像是三个全新维度的突破：《末日之战》像是二十年机制打磨的结晶，《核心解密》呈现了前所未有的单人解谜体验，而《Vantage》简直开创了叙事游戏的新范式。这些闪光点证明游戏界依然充满可能，只是需要我们主动去发现。

Those are, like, three completely distinct genres of games. You know? So I I had three new entries, quote unquote, that just really, really excited for me for what games can do. And kind of all for different reasons. You know, like, War for Arrakis just feels like this, like I said, this twenty year refinement of a game.

问题在于，如果只是被动接受常规渠道推送的游戏，很难遇到这种震撼体验。但一旦遇上，那种稀有而强烈的兴奋感，只要你愿意沉浸其中，就会觉得一切都值得。

Core of Discovery just kind of feels like a solo puzzle that I haven't seen before, and that's always interesting. And Vantage is almost like a new type of storytelling game. It's like those are just three brand new exciting, like, flash points in the hobby. So, like, yeah, it absolutely can happen. It's just I I think what the problem is is a lot of the time, if you are just drip feeding yourself the stuff that just comes down through whatever channel you acquire or play games, it's not very often that you're gonna find something that hits like that.

虽然这种时刻很罕见，但当它来临时，那份纯粹的快乐确实无与伦比。

But, like, when it does happen, it's it's rare, but it's also, like, super exciting if you just let it be, I guess.

没错。同意。

Yep. Agreed.

好的。那么，今天就到这里吧。感谢三位听众来信参与我们的问答环节。如果还没读到你的问题，我们可能会在未来的节目中解答，但请不要因此停止向我们发送邮件至boardgamebarrage@gmail.com。我们非常期待收到你们的提问、评论和反馈。

Okay. Well, that's gonna do it. I think for our mailbag episode, thank you all three of you who wrote in for writing in. And if we've not read your question yet, we may get to it in the future episode, but please don't let that discourage you from writing into us at boardgamebarrage@gmail.com. We love to get your questions and comments and feedback.

如果不想发邮件，也可以通过我们的社交媒体联系我们。我们现在入驻了Blue Sky平台，虽然仍不幸地保留着Twitter账号。此外，我们的Discord地址是boardgamebarrage.com/discord，欢迎通过这些渠道与我们交流。

If you don't wanna email us, you could also reach out to us on any of our social media. We are now on blue sky. We are still on Twitter, unfortunately. We are also on Discord at board game barrage dot com slash discord, and you can reach out to us in any of those platforms. We would love to hear from you.

我们很想知道大家对本期节目的反馈、对未来节目的建议，或对今天讨论内容的看法。感谢各位收听，感谢Mark和Kellen的参与，也感谢Heart Society为我们提供的开场音乐《What's in Your Mind, Kid?》。大家再见。

We'd love to hear your feedback on this episode or thoughts of future episodes or on anything that we've spoken about here today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you to Mark and Kellen for being here, and thank you to Heart Society for our intro natural music, what's in your mind, kid? Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye.

再见。

Goodbye.