第244集 - 推理：社交行为还是个人行为？

大家好，欢迎收听第244期《桌游闪电战》，这是一档关于桌游一切的播客节目，您可以在比连续第三次怀疑朋友是否是叛徒更短的时间内听完。我是说，拜托，这种概率有多大？《桌游闪电战》由灰狐游戏赞助播出。本周我们将探讨推理游戏的世界。

Hello, and welcome to episode two forty four of Board Game Blitz, a podcast about all things board games that you can listen to in less time than it takes to figure out whether your friend is the traitor for the third time in a row. I mean, come on. What are the odds? Board Game Blitz is sponsored by Grey Fox Games. This week, we're talking about the world of deduction.

首先我们会讨论最近玩过的两款游戏：《恐怖逃脱2》和《我的城市》应用程序版。然后我们将分享对各种需要推理能力的游戏的看法。现在有请主持人——安比和克里斯特尔。

First, we discuss a couple games we've played recently, TerrorScape two and the app version of My City. Then we talk about our thoughts on all kinds of games that require the powers of deduction. And now here are your hosts. Amby. And Crystal.

最近我拿到了《恐怖逃脱2》的预览评测版。这款游戏由Jeffrey CCH设计，IceMakes出版。在我们录制的同时，这款游戏正在Kickstarter上众筹——只要您不是在节目播出后太久才听到这期内容。总之，《恐怖逃脱2》是《恐怖逃脱》的独立续作，虽然我没玩过前作，但两款游戏的玩法非常相似。

Recently, I got a preview review copy of TerrorScape two. This is designed by Jeffrey CCH published by IceMakes. This is on kickstarter right now as we speak and as you hear this episode as long as you hear this not too late after it comes out. But anyways, Terror Escape two is a standalone sequel to Terror Escape, which I have not played. But both of the games are very similar in gameplay.

这是一款以恐怖电影为主题的1对多对抗游戏，类似于电影中有一个怪物角色试图杀死主角的场景。他们是主角吗？或者...我也不确定。配角之类的？毕竟这是恐怖电影嘛。

They're one versus mini game themed around horror movies, like where there is one monster character trying to kill the protagonist of the movie. Are are they protagonists? Or I don't know. Extras and like, I don't know. Horror movies.

我不喜欢

I don't like

恐怖电影。怪物电影里的主角是谁？是怪物吗？

horror movies. Who is the protagonist in a monster movie? Is it the monster?

我不...嗯，其实我也不太确定。总之。

I don't yeah. I'm not really sure. Anyway.

他们基本上是想杀死其他所有人。是的。

They're trying to kill everybody else basically. Yeah.

是的。所以在游戏中，一个人扮演怪物，这是一对多的对抗。有点像隐藏移动游戏。有一些隐藏移动和四处走动、战斗之类的元素。但很多时候在隐藏移动游戏中，是多人在寻找那个隐藏的人。

Yeah. So in the game, the one person is the monster and this is a one versus mini. It's kinda like a hidden movement game. There's some hidden movement and moving around, fighting and stuff. But a lot of times in hidden movement, it's the mini who are trying to find the one and the one is hidden.

但在这个游戏中，是那个怪物在寻找多个小人。所以很有趣。是的。而且实际上与主题配合得非常好。因为那个角色是怪物，有三个像人类一样四处奔跑，怪物不知道他们在哪里，他们只想保持安静但却会发出噪音。

But in this one, it's the one trying to find the mini people. So it's Interesting. Yeah. And it works really well with the theme actually. Because like the one character is the monster and there's three like humans running around and the monster doesn't know where they are and they're just trying to be like quiet but they make noise.

所以有这个大棋盘。盒子巨大无比。

So there's this big board. The box is huge.

是的。对于在YouTube上观看的观众来说，Ambi现在正把它放在膝盖上，她简直是在费力地抱着它。

Yeah. For those of you watching on YouTube, like Ambi's got it sitting on her lap right now and she's like she's literally struggling to hold it.

但它配有托盘，这些组件托盘很不错，里面装有所有组件和一些微缩模型。这是原型版本，不是最终版，所以我不知道最终版本的组件会是什么样子。

But it's it's got like, it comes with trays which are kinda nice component trays that have like all the components in there and some miniatures. This is a prototype copy so it's not final so I don't know like how the components will be in the final version versus this.

我的意思是，既然那是原型，从我的角度来看已经相当不错了。

I mean, that's the prototype then that looks pretty good already just from my vantage point.

是的。我不会把游戏板拿出来，但你可以在网上看图片。有一个你要搭建的大房子结构。它是三维的，你搭建好后它会竖在杀手和其他玩家之间，就像一道屏风。每个角色，杀手和其他玩家，都有自己的游戏板，显示地图并有放置卡牌等东西的位置。这些对另一方角色、另一方团队都是隐藏的。

Yeah. I'm not gonna bring the board out but you can look at pictures online. There's a big house thing that you build. It's three-dimensional and you build it and it goes up in between the the killer and the other players as like a screen. So each character, the killer and the other players, they have their own board that shows like the map and then has a place for cards and stuff And that is all hidden from the other character, the other team.

是的。所以你们有相同的地图，并且有两个杀手的微缩模型。这样每个人都会知道杀手的位置。我其实刚和Toby玩了一局一对一。所以我有时可能会说人而不是团队，但它可以是一对多。

Yeah. And so like you have the same map and you have two miniatures of the killer. So like each person will know where the killer is. I I actually just played this one versus one against Toby. So I might just say person instead of team sometimes, but it's it can be one versus mini.

总是有三个角色进行游戏，所以如果有三个人，每人扮演一个角色。如果是一个人，你就扮演所有三个角色。你有这个游戏板，然后游戏是不对称的。在杀手的回合，他们有一手可以打出做不同事情的卡牌。Toby是杀手，所以我对杀手那边不太熟悉。

It's always three characters played, like so if you have three people then they each play one character. If you have one person, you play all three characters. So you have this board and then it's asymmetrical. So on the killer's turn, they have this hand of cards that they can play to do different things. Toby was the killer, so I'm not as familiar with the killer.

但就像，你打出卡牌，可以做诸如移动或搜索的事情。所以如果他们和一个人或多个人在同一格，那么他们就会攻击他们。基本上，他们就是在四处走动试图找到他们。然后在人类玩家的回合，每个角色，他们各有一个行动，要么是移动，要么如果他们所在的格子有不同图标，他们可以搜索。有不同的牌堆，你试图通过搜索找到钥匙。人类有几种获胜的方式，你基本上就是要在死亡之前达成其中一种。

But like, you play cards and you can do things like move, or they search. So if they're on the same space as one of the people or more multiple of the people, then they attack them. So basically, they're going around and trying to find them. And then on the people's turn, each of the characters, they each get an action, which is either like move or they can search if they're on a space that has There's spaces with different icons and they have different decks where you're trying to search through to find keys. There's different ways that the humans can win and you're trying to get one of these ways before dying basically.

所以就像你要试图找到五把钥匙然后逃脱，从主出口离开，或者你必须修理无线电呼叫直升机，然后等待五个回合，直升机会来接你。或者你可以修理汽车并获取燃料，然后在汽车格子上开车离开。或者你可以与杀手进行最终对决。所以你必须观察杀手的弱点，然后团结起来尝试攻击杀手。这样就是你突袭杀手，而不是杀手攻击你。是的，我玩的时候，其实非常接近胜利。

So like you're trying to find five keys and escape, go out like the main exit or you have to repair the radio and call the helicopter and then wait five turns and the helicopter will come pick you up Or you can repair the car and get fuel and then like I'll be on the car space and drive away. Or you can have a final showdown with the killer. So you have to observe what the killer's weaknesses and then like band together and try to attack the killer. And so like you surprise the killer instead of the killer attacking you. So, yeah, when I played, it was super close actually.

比如，我有一堆钥匙。我找不到最后一把钥匙，所以我就开始修理无线电，然后修好了，我在最后一个回合死掉了。哦，外星人会变得更强大，或者外星人或怪物什么的，我想这次是个外星人。随着回合进行它会变得更强大，因为它有一副卡牌，有点像抽牌和打牌，当牌堆用完时，它会重新洗牌但同时升级。当它升级时，它会获得更多力量，这意味着当它和你战斗时，你必须掷骰子并掷出比它的力量更高的点数才能存活而不受伤，比如有武器修正值等等。

Like, I had a bunch of keys. I couldn't find the last key, so then I started repairing the radio, and then I got that, and then I was on the last turn, and I died. Oh, The alien gets more powerful, or alien or monster or whatever, I think it was an alien in this one. It gets more powerful as the turns go on because it has a deck of cards and it's kinda like drawing cards and playing them, and then when the deck runs out, it reshuffles but also levels up. When it levels up, it gets more strength, which means when it's fighting you, you have to roll dice and get higher than their strength in order to survive and not get hurt, like with weapon modifiers and stuff.

而我一直掷出1点和0点，所以那很糟糕。经典的Ambi（运气差）。但当它们升级时，它们还能做更多事情，比如在这个游戏中，当它达到五级时，它攻击你时会先造成伤害，然后再攻击。所以它会在正式攻击之前就伤害你，而两点伤害就是死亡。所以那真的很吓人。

And I kept rolling ones and zeros, so that was bad. Classic ambi. But then also when they level up, they can do more things like in this one when it was level five, it like damages you when it attacks you and then also like attacks. So it would it damages you before the official attack and two damage is a death. So that was really scary.

是的。但我觉得这个主题设计得非常好。在游戏中的某个时刻，我在我的回合里从杀手身边溜了过去。哦，还有一点是你需要制造噪音标记，这就是杀手判断情况的方式，因为你做的某些事情会产生噪音。有时候当你搜索时，如果从牌堆抽到的牌带有噪音标记，你就必须在当前位置发出声响。

Yeah. But I thought like the theme worked really well. At one point in the game I moved past the killer on my turn. Oh, another thing is you make noise tokens, that's how the killer actually deuces what's going on because certain things you do make noise. Sometimes when you're searching, if you draw a card in the deck and it has a noise token then you have to make a noise where you were.

基本上你们秘密进行回合，然后告诉杀手：好的，这些位置有噪音标记。这样他们就知道，哦，这里有动静。但当时我溜过去后，我有个特殊能力可以让我在其他地方制造噪音，于是我在别处弄出了声响。结果他就去了别的地方，我当时就想：成功了！这感觉就像电影里的场景——有人躲在灌木丛里，杀手就从旁边走过，而你捂着嘴，尽量不发出太大声的呼吸。

Basically you do your turns in secret and then you tell the killer, okay there's noise tokens in these spots. And so they know, okay, noise was made here. But then so I moved past but then I had like a special ability that lets me make noise somewhere else, so then I made noise somewhere else, And then so he went somewhere else, and I was like, yes. It felt kind of like in the movies where the person's hiding in a bush and the killer walks right by and you're like, covering your mouth, trying not to breathe too loud.

就像，我能想象到那个画面，对，就像在卧室里，设置一个闹钟让它稍后响铃，然后赶紧跑开。对。那原来是游戏里的道具之一。哦，真的吗？太棒了。

Like, I could picture you, yeah, like in the bedroom, like setting an alarm clock to go off and then running away. Yeah. And that was one of the items. Oh, really? That's amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。有个闹钟道具可以在两个回合后制造噪音。你可以把它丢弃在某个地方，两个回合后它就会发出声响。

Yeah. There's an item alarm clock that like makes noise after two turns. You can like discard it in a place and it makes turn noise after two turns.

我完全不知道游戏里还有这个机制，太酷了。你说得我都想玩这个游戏了。我现在就想玩，超级想玩。

I literally did not know that that was in the game, so that's really cool. You're making me wanna play this. I wanna I wanna play it now.

是的。所以我玩得很开心。不过相对于我习惯的游戏来说，设置工作比较多。我已经有一阵子没玩过长时间的游戏了，但这局游戏我们花了大约一个小时，不过这包括学习规则的时间。游戏标注的时长是30到45分钟，支持2到4名玩家。

Yeah. So so I enjoyed it. It is the setup was a lot for what I'm used to. Like, I haven't played a long game in a while, but the game itself was it took us about an hour, but that was, like, including that was a learning game. So it says thirty to forty five minutes for the game, two to four players.

我的意思是，玩家更多的话，我不确定时间会变长还是缩短。回合数什么的其实是一样的，因为玩家少的时候是一个人控制多个角色，但可能会有更多讨论，或者玩家之间窃窃私语的私下交流。所以我确实想试试更多玩家的情况，也想扮演杀手。但说实话，我对这个游戏最大的不满是配件问题——看起来挺精致的，但那个盾牌装置很烦人，因为我每次拿出来都得重新组装。规则书里有组装说明，但组装整个大房子结构确实要花些时间。

I mean, with more players, I I'm not sure, like, if it would be more or less time. It's still, the same amount of turns and stuff because with fewer players, it's one person controlling more people, but then there might be more discussion or, like, whispered hushing discussion between people. So I do wanna try it at more players, I do wanna try it as the killer. But, yeah, my main gripe with the game is components are like, it's very neat looking but the shield thing, it's annoying because I'm gonna have to reassemble it each time I take it out. It has assembly instructions in the rule book but it's like, it takes some time to assemble this whole big house thing.

还有个立体的骰塔也要装进去。这种设计是有功能的，因为共享信息都放在这个屋顶上，这样你可以越过墙看到墙顶的信息，比如钥匙数量或角色生命值等等。骰塔在侧面，但对我来说组装工作量太大了。不过我没玩过大型游戏，因为我有孩子。我玩过的大多是小型游戏。

And then there's like a three d dice tower too that goes in. It's functional because the shared information is going on top of this house thing and so you can see over the wall, on top of the wall is the shared information like the number of keys you have or the health of the people and stuff. And then the dice tower is on the side of it, but it's just a lot of assembly for me. But I haven't played like a big game because I have kids. Have a lot of the games I've played are smaller games.

但我觉得对于大型主题游戏来说，这种设置量可能还算正常。

But I think maybe for like a big thematic game, that's probably more on par with the setup.

原型版包含几个怪物？

How many monsters does prototype come

原型版只带一个怪物，但众筹版好像有三个怪物。

with? So the prototype just came with one monster, but the I think the Kickstarter has three monsters.

好吧。说说我和恐怖题材的关系——我超爱恐怖故事。喜欢恐怖电影里的叙事，但现代恐怖电影我几乎都看不下去，因为受不了突然惊吓（嗯哼），也受不了血腥场面。

Okay. So here's the thing for me and horror. I love horror stories. Like, I like the stories that are in horror movies, but modern horror movies, I almost always cannot watch because I don't handle jump scares well Mhmm. And I don't handle gore well.

是的，我受不了

Yeah. I don't

像那些。

like those.

是的。那些在很多恐怖电影里都有。我并不是在批评这些东西出现在电影里。我理解。所以像这样的体验听起来非常吸引我，因为你能够获得完整的故事，却没有任何突然惊吓或血腥场面。

Yeah. Those are in a lot of horror movies. And I'm not even faulting those things being in them. I get it. So like an experience like this sounds so appealing to me because you get all of the story without any of the jump scares or the gore.

所以，天啊，我现在真的可能会去Kickstarter上看看这个项目。

So, oh man, I now I really I might actually go to Kickstarter and take a look at this one.

不过确实，这有点让我想起像《地球最后一夜》这样的游戏，因为你需要四处搜索找到卡片之类的东西，很有主题感，但那种一对一对抗的模式我觉得挺有意思的。

But yeah, it was kind of like a little reminiscent of games like Last Night on Earth or something where because you're like searching around finding cards and stuff and it's thematic but like the one versus I mean was interesting.

我大概有十七八年没玩过《地球最后一夜》了，真的。已经过去很久了。

I haven't played Last Night on Earth in probably seventeen or eighteen years, literally. Like it's been a long time.

但确实，这大概是我玩过的最后一个类似主题的游戏了。因为我玩的很多游戏都不是这种类型的。不过，是的，玩起来很有趣。如果我与更多玩家一起玩的话，我可能会在我的月度回顾视频里聊聊它。

But yeah, that's like probably the last game that I've played that was like themed similarly, I think. Because a lot of the games I play aren't like this. But, yeah. It was it was fun. If I do play it with more players, then I'll probably talk about it on my monthly recap video.

因为Kickstarter众筹我觉得会持续一个月左右。所以我可能没法在播客里再次讨论它了，但也许我会在视频里多聊一些。

Because the kickstarter I think ends I think it goes for like a month. So I won't be able to talk about it on the podcast again probably, but maybe I'll talk about it more on there.

所以是的，如果大家想了解更多相关内容，都应该在YouTube上订阅我们。

So yeah, everybody should be subscribing to us on YouTube if they want to hear more about it.

是的，不过我想《Terrascape 2》的主要问题是这些组件，我不知道他们是否会修复这个问题，因为这只是原型。关于组件的另一个问题是，它附带这些小彩色圆环用于迷你模型，这样你就知道哪个角色对应哪个。但当你把圆环套上去后，它就放不回原来的模制内衬里了。所以你不得不取下来，之后再重新套上。我不知道他们是否会修复这个问题。

Yeah, but yes, I guess the main things with Terrascape two is like this is just the components, which I don't know if they're going to fix that in because this is prototype things. So the other things I had with the components is it comes with these little rings for the minis, colored rings so you know which one is which for your characters. But then it doesn't fit back into the little molded insert when they put the ring on. So you have to take it off and put it back on later again. I don't know if they'll fix that.

然后还有最终对决部分，我没有玩到，所以没能体验这个。但有一些弱点卡牌。它展示给你看，有那种带红蓝滤片的双筒望远镜。哦，是蓝色的透明屏幕之类的东西。

And then also for the final showdown, which I did not do, so I didn't get to experience this. But there's these cards that are weaknesses. And it shows you it has binoculars that has those red and blue filter things. Oh. Blue transparent screen things.

所以一边可以看到外星人的弱点，上面有图标图片，你应该能看到这些。而外星人不应该看到这一边，它应该看另一边，那边显示的是外星人会在哪个地点变得更强。这样，如果他们看到了，就可以为最终对决做准备。但你知道这种红蓝片的效果，有时候不透过眼镜也能看到字，这个情况下确实可以。比如，你勉强能看到图标之类的。

So like one side sees the weaknesses of the alien and it has like icon pictures on there and you're supposed to see that. And then the alien's not supposed to see that and then the alien's to see the other side which shows you like the location that the alien will be stronger at. And so like they're trying to prepare for the final showdown if they see that. But you know how with these red and blue piece, sometimes you can see the words without looking through the glasses, which you can in this case. Like, so you can kinda see the icons and stuff.

所以这算不上什么秘密，意味着外星人不应该看到另一边，人类也不应该看到另一边。但你能勉强看到，这可能会搞砸事情。不过我没有玩最终对决部分，因为我的人类角色太弱，我的角色也很弱。

So it's not much of a secret, which means like the alien is not supposed to see the other side and the people aren't supposed to see the other side. So like, you can kinda see it, which might mess things up. But I haven't played the final showdown part because my people were weak and my roles were weak.

也许下次吧。

Maybe next time.

是的。所以我不知道他们在最终游戏里是否会修复这个问题。但总之，这就是《Terror Escape 2》。游戏里有很多内容，非常庞大，而且很有主题感。有趣的一对多玩法，其中一个人要寻找隐藏的人类，那些隐藏的迷你人类。

Yeah. So I don't know if they'll fix that in the final game too. But yeah, that was Terror Escape two. Lots of stuff going on in the game, very big and and it felt thematic. Interesting one versus mini where the one person is looking for the hidden people, the hidden mini people.

今天我要介绍的游戏是Reiner Kinesia的《我的城市》应用版本。特别感谢Spiral Burst Studios的Christian，他免费赠送了我一份应用副本让我体验。他听说我玩一些应用游戏，就主动联系我们，我当时就说：太好了，请务必让我试试。这款游戏大约在过去一个月内刚刚在iOS和Android平台上线。

The game I'm talking about today is the app version of Reiner Kinesia's My City. So shout out to Christian from Spiral Burst Studios who gave me a free copy of the app so I could check it out. He heard that I play some app games and kindly reached out to us and I was like, yes, please. I do want to try this. It just released on both iOS and Android here within the past month or so.

如果你玩过《我的城市》，会觉得非常熟悉。对于不熟悉这款游戏的玩家来说，《我的城市》是一款板块放置游戏，你需要放置三种以上不同颜色的板块。你从印有不同板块的卡牌堆中抽取，然后所有玩家同时将抽到的板块放置到自己的版图上，通过完成多种不同目标来获取分数。但游戏的核心精髓在于战役模式，每进行一局游戏，规则都会发生细微变化。

If you've ever played My City, it will be very familiar to you. For those of you not familiar with the game, My City is a tile laying game where you are laying tiles in three plus different colors. You draw from a deck of cards that have the different tiles on them and then all players will place the drawn tile onto their boards simultaneously and you are trying to achieve a number of different things to score points. But the kind of the bread and butter, the main part of My City is the campaign. When you play through the campaign, the rules change slightly every single game.

你会不断获得新增内容和新的得分方式，有些规则会修改建筑的功能。虽然其中还有更多细节，但我不想剧透给还没玩过战役模式的玩家。应用版本不仅完整移植了这些内容，还做了扩展。在应用中，你可以进行完整战役模式——既可以与AI对战（独自与AI角色游玩），也可以在线游玩（与其他拥有该应用的玩家共同完成战役），我觉得这非常棒。你还可以玩随机模式，它会从整个战役规则库中随机选取部分规则。

So you'll get new things added in and new ways to score and some of the rules will, like, modify what buildings do. And there's a little bit of more nuance there, but I don't wanna kinda spoil it for those of you who haven't played the campaign. But the app version translates all of that over and then some. So in the app, you can do a campaign, a full campaign, either with AI, so you can play by yourself with just AI characters or online, so you can actually play through a campaign with other people that have the app as well, which I think is pretty neat. You can play through a randomized game, which means the rules from the whole campaign, like, it chooses some of those at random.

或者你可以玩永恒模式，它基本上采用战役最终阶段的规则集作为游戏规则。所有这些模式都支持本地或在线游玩，非常方便。应用中还有每日挑战功能，每天会提供随机规则组合，有时难度非常高。今天的挑战我就不具体读了，因为对不了解游戏的人没有意义，但可以说今天的规则有点离谱——我还没通关。

Or you can play an eternal game, which uses the rule set from the very end of the campaign, basically, as the rules for that game. And you can do all of those things both locally or online, which are pretty neat. And then there's also a daily challenge in the app where you go into the app and it has a randomized set of rules that you have to work with and sometimes those are very difficult. The one for today, I'm not gonna read it because it won't make sense to anybody who doesn't know the game, but it's like, today's was a little bit ridiculous. I haven't played through it.

在我玩过的所有桌游改编应用中，这款绝对属于顶尖梯队。我没有遇到任何程序错误或问题。说明文字清晰易懂，当战役中引入新规则时，会明确标注哪些规则发生变化——比如'上局游戏的这些规则不再生效'。

Of all of the board game adaptation apps that I've played, this would rank in the very top echelon, basically. I have encountered no bugs or issues. The instructions are clearly written out. When they incorporate new rules during the campaign, they make it very clear what rules are changing. Like, these rules from the past game are no longer in effect.

还会明确告知'这些是新生效的规则'。放置板块时可以轻松旋转，需要确认后才能放置，避免了误操作。点击即可查看对手版图，这在战役某些场景中很重要，因为第一个完成特定行动的玩家会获得奖励，所以必须密切关注对手版图。美术风格与实体桌游完全一致，还原度极高。

Here are the new rules that are going into effect. When you're placing tiles, you can rotate them very easily and then you have to confirm to place so there's no accidental placements of anything. It's easy to click over and see your opponent's boards as well which matters in some of the scenarios during the campaign because the first person to do certain things will get bonuses. So you definitely want to keep an eye on your opponent's boards. The artwork matches the aesthetic from the actual board game itself pretty spot on perfect.

简直就像在手机上玩实体桌游一样。我印象非常深刻。目前我已经玩到战役第五章第15关，整个战役只有24关，所以已经过半了，我真的非常喜欢这款游戏。

It literally is like you're playing the board game on your phone. I am quite impressed. I've already let's see. I am on chapter five episode 15 of the campaign, and there's only 24 episodes in the campaign. So I'm more than halfway through, and I'm really, really loving it.

不过，我实在不喜欢我的AI对手Alex，他现在正把我打得落花流水。每局游戏他都表现超好，我只能无奈地说，哦，看看这局面。

Although, I'm not loving my AI opponent, Alex, who is beating me currently. Every game, does well, and I'm just like, oh, look.

你能调整AI的难度吗？

Can you change the difficulty of the AI?

不行。没有难度设置。而且你也不能改他们的名字，虽然技术上这无关紧要。但特别搞笑的是，其中一个AI叫Reiner。就只是Reiner这个名字。

No. There is no difficulty. And you can't change their names either, which technically that does not matter. But it's so funny because one of the AIs is Reiner. Like, it's just Reiner.

对吧？但当我连起来说Reiner Kanezia这两个词时，我知道怎么发音。我以前有个同事，他的名字拼写一样但读作Rainier。所以如果单独看到这个名字，我脑子第一反应就是Rainier，而不是Reiner。每次看到都觉得好笑，因为总会想起我以前那位还挺喜欢的同事。

Right? But I when I say Reiner Kanezia together, those two words, I know how to pronounce it. I used to have a coworker who spelled his first name the same way but pronounced it Rainier. And so if I just see the first name by itself, my brain immediately thinks Rainier, not Reiner. And so it's funny because every time I see it, I think of my old coworker who I liked quite a bit, to be fair.

他确实人很好。但我就是不会联想到Reiner Kannizia，尽管他明明是这款游戏的设计师。挺有趣的。我也不知道为什么。

Like he was lovely. But it's I don't think of Reiner Kannizia even though he's the literal designer of this game. That's funny. Which is I yeah. And I I don't know why.

我就想，要是能给AI重命名就好了，虽然不知道为什么要这样。这对游戏体验毫无影响。如果这是我唯一的挑剔点，那这应用简直太棒了。我还去看了Spiral Burst Studios的网站，因为玩的时候我就惊叹：哇，这做得真不错。

Like, I was like, I wish I could rename the AIs, and I don't know why that is. It has no bearing on the game whatsoever. If that's my only nitpick, I'd say that's a pretty darn good app. I looked at Spiral Burst Studios website because what I saw when I played this and I was like, wow. This is really good.

他们还设计过什么其他游戏？他们有几款非桌游类的解谜游戏，桌游玩家应该也会喜欢。另外还有数字版的Marikibo也是他们设计的。我从没玩过Marikibo，但说不定该试试看。

What other games have they designed? They have a few non board game puzzly type games that board gamers would probably enjoy. And then they also have Marikibo digital. They were the ones who designed that. I've never played Marikibo, but shoot, maybe I should.

也许我应该买数字版。然后它还提到他们正在开发一款新的桌游应用，目前就说了这些。没有具体说明是什么游戏，所以我很好奇Spiral Burst接下来会推出什么，因为他们这款做得真的很棒。我玩得相当开心。所以再次感谢Spiral Burst让我试玩，如果你们喜欢在手机上玩桌游，这款我强烈推荐。

Maybe I should get the digital version. And then it also says that they're they have a new board game app that's currently in development and that's all it says. It doesn't say what game, so I'm definitely curious to see what else comes out from Spiral Burst because they did a really good job on this one. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. So yeah, thank you again to Spiral Burst for letting me try it out and if you all like playing board games on your phone, this one is one I can highly recommend.

有一种游戏类型，Ambi，你和我都挺喜欢的。然后还有一类相近的游戏我们也喜欢，但可能没那么热衷。那就是推理游戏和社交推理游戏。我觉得一般来说，这两个桌游领域会被分开讨论，因为它们在很多方面是两个非常不同的类型。但除了都有'推理'这个词之外，它们也确实有一些相似之处。所以我们要把它们混在一起，两个都聊聊。

There's a genre of games, Ambi, that you and I both tend to like quite a bit And then there's an adjacent category that we also like but maybe not always quite as much. And that would be deduction games and social deduction games. And I would say generally, these are two areas of board gaming that would be discussed separately because they are two very different genres in a lot of ways. But aside from just the word deduction, they also do bear some similarities. And so we're gonna mash them together and talk about both.

是啊。像社交推理游戏，我以前真的很喜欢。我的意思是，我现在还是喜欢。只是玩得没那么多了，因为很难凑齐一大群人玩大型社交推理游戏。而且有一段时间，好像每个新游戏都是社交推理类的，我有点玩腻了。

Yeah. Like social deduction, I used to really like. I mean, I still like it. I just don't play it as much because well, it's hard to get big groups like together for like bigger social deduction games. And then also, there was a time when like every new game was social deduction and I got kind of tired of it.

不过没错，就像在以前。在以前。《抵抗组织：阿瓦隆》是我最喜欢的游戏。那是在我正式给所有游戏排名之前，我觉得《抵抗组织》是我最喜欢的游戏。那现在还是我最喜欢的社交推理游戏。

But yeah, like back in the olden days. In the olden days. The Resistance Avalon was my favorite game. That was I think before I like ranked all my games officially and stuff, I like the Resistance was my favorite game. That's like my still my favorite social deduction game.

那游戏里有很多真正的推理元素，我觉得这就是原因。因为我喜欢推理。但社交推理游戏有社交成分，人们会对你撒谎。你要试着找出有隐藏角色的人之类的。而纯粹的推理游戏则是游戏不会骗你，游戏会给你提供信息。

And that has a lot of like actual deduction in it, which I think is why. Because I like deduction. But like social deduction has a social aspect with people lying to you. And you're trying to like figure out people with hidden roles and stuff. Whereas like just straight deduction is the game not lying to you, the game telling you information.

对吧？所以没错。虽然我现在最喜欢的游戏之一，《悲剧循环者》，是推理游戏而不是社交推理。但它是一人对多人的模式，有一个人而不是游戏在和你对抗。所以那个人不能对你撒谎，但他们试图误导你。

Right? So Right. Although like one of my favorite games now, tragedy looper is deduction, not social deduction. But it's like one versus mini where a person instead of the game is like working against you. So it's not the person can't lie to you but they're trying to mislead you.

也有点像隐藏移动类游戏。那些是推理游戏但不是社交推理，因为它不像...

Kind of like a hidden movement game too. Those are deduction but not social deduction because it's not like

这就是我认为这些类型游戏之间的融合比人们通常意识到的要多得多。嗯。因为游戏隐藏信息和个人隐藏信息，在这两种情况下都不总是那么泾渭分明。对吧？比如，如果我们谈论像《Cryptid》或《Turing Machine》这样的游戏，那就是纯粹的推理。

That's, see and that's where I think these genres blend more than I think people tend to realize. Mhmm. Because the game obscuring information and a person obscuring information, it's not always cut and dry in both of those cases. Right? Like, if we're talking about something like Cryptid, for instance, or Turing machine, that is pure deduction.

那就是游戏本身有一个秘密，你需要找出那个秘密，并且要成为第一个找出秘密的人。如果你做到了，你就赢了游戏。就是这样。但正如你所说，有些游戏本身可能有某种秘密，但玩家也是欺骗的一部分。所以即使它不被归类为社交推理游戏，在这些游戏中使用社交推理也可能是有益的。

That is the game has a secret, and you gotta figure out that secret, and you gotta be the first one to figure out that secret. And if you do, you win the game. Like, that's it. But to your point, there are games where the game itself might have a secret of sorts, but the players are part of the deception. And so even if it isn't what would be categorized as a social deduction game, using social deduction can be beneficial in those games.

比如利用你对某人的了解，如果你和托比一起玩《悲剧循环者》，了解托比可能会帮助你，因为你知道他的思维方式。这就是社交推理——本质上就是推断一个人的行为或已经做了什么。

Like using what you know of, like if you and Toby were playing Tragedy Looper, knowing Toby will potentially help you because you know how he thinks. And that is social It's literally deducing what a person is doing or has done.

是的，我经常称之为心理游戏，当我谈论心理游戏时，就是试图进入对方的头脑之类的。这就是我真正喜欢《抵抗组织》的地方，比如愚弄别人，或者我猜是识破别人。但我不太擅长判断某人是否在说谎。所以我必须使用推理部分。而社交推理和虚张声势经常被相提并论。

Yeah, I call it mind games a lot of times, think, when I'm talking mind games trying to get in the other person's head and stuff. And that's what I really liked about resistance is like fooling other people, or I guess figuring out other people. But I'm not that great at like reading when someone's lying versus not lying. So I would have to use the deduction part. Whereas like social deduction and bluffing is often compared hand in hand.

很多游戏都包含社交推理和虚张声势。但我倾向于那些虚张声势较少的游戏，因为我很难读懂人。而如果他们采取了一个行动，我就会想，好吧，他们为什么采取那个行动？我可以看到他们行动的实际证据，然后尝试去想象。但只是看着他们的脸，对我来说就比较困难。

A lot of games have social deduction and bluffing in them. But I lean towards the ones that have less bluffing because it's hard for me to read people. Whereas like, if they do an action, I'm like, okay, why did they do that action? I can see like physical evidence of what they did and then try to like imagine that. But like just looking at their face, I like, that's harder for me.

我同意。对我来说，是的，我无法通过观察他们瞳孔的扩张就知道他们在做什么之类的。我做不到，那不适合我。但确实有过这样的情况，说实话这很奇怪，因为在社交推理游戏中，嗯。从技术上讲，你可以使用呈现给你的所有信息作为信息。

I would agree. I think for me, yeah, just I can't like look at the dilation of their pupils and know what they're doing or whatever. Can't like that's not for me. But there have been times and honestly, it's weird because in a social deduction game, you Mhmm. Technically can use all of the information that is presented to you as information.

对吧？比如，你可以看到或听到一些事情，但有时也会出现一些超出游戏范围的事情。比如《一夜终极狼人》就是一个很好的例子。当我们以前经常玩这个游戏时，你知道，我们都会做各种小动作。哦，是的。

Right? Like, you can see or hear a thing, but there are things that kind of fall outside of the scope of the game that present themselves occasionally as well. Like, one night ultimate werewolf is a good example of this. When we used to play this all the time, you know, we would like, everybody would do little tippy taps. Oh, yeah.

放在桌子上是因为我们不想让某人在摆弄东西时暴露自己的身份。这种事情就像是，你不应该通过这种方式来发现一个人的身份。

On the table because we don't want somebody shuffling around with a thing to be obvious in who they are. And it's one of those things where like, that's not how you're supposed to find out who a person is.

是的。

Yeah.

就像这样，这超出了游戏的规则范围。但有趣的是游戏并没有告诉你这一点。你只能自己去领悟，哦，这不是我想知道谁是先知或者其他身份的方式。

Like, that's outside of the constraints of the game. But it what's interesting is the game doesn't tell you that. You kind of just have to learn, oh, that isn't how I wanna know who the seer is or whatever.

没错。我高中时经常玩黑手党游戏。狼人杀其实就是黑手党游戏，只是主题不同。但在那个游戏里，人们会坐在一起，你能感觉到他们是否起身之类的。

Yeah. I used to play a lot of mafia in high school. That's what werewolf is mafia. It's just a different theme. But in that one, people would be sitting next to each other and you can kinda like feel if they get up or something.

我记得有一次，有人在玩游戏时给另一个人按摩，比如背部按摩。而那个按摩的人其实是黑手党成员。被按摩的人就觉得，哦，我不觉得他们是黑手党，因为他们正在给我按摩，而且我在夜晚阶段没有感觉到任何变化。但他们其实骗过了对方，他们可以一边按摩一边指认之类的。他们还能利用这种场外信息来对付我的猜测。

And I think one time like someone was giving someone else a massage or something, back massage while they're playing. And the person who was giving them the massage was actually the mafia. And the person getting the massage was like, oh, don't think they're the mafia because I like they were giving me a massage and I didn't like feel anything change during the night. But then they fooled them like they were able to like point while also giving them a massage or something. They could also use that meta stuff against my guess.

确实如此。而且我觉得如果你和一群熟悉的朋友一起玩，这种方式尤其有效。当你能够蒙骗过了解你的人时，那种满足感会更强。对吧？嗯。

I mean, that is true. And I think if you're playing with a friendly group of people that you know, that kind of is especially good. Like, when you can pull the wool over someone's eyes that knows you well, that's way more satisfying. Right? Mhmm.

那么如果一个游戏有隐藏角色，它就自动成为社交推理游戏了吗？

So if a game has a hidden role, is it automatically a social deduction game?

我觉得那些也是不同的，因为像隐藏叛徒游戏之类的属于单独类别，比如《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》。那算是社交推理游戏吗？

I feel like those are also different because there's like hidden trader games and stuff are a separate category like Battlestar Galactica. Is that a social deduction game?

我觉得应该算是…有人会说

I mean I feel like it's I someone would say

我不觉得

I don't

知道。是的。现在社交推理是游戏的主要机制吗？对吧？有趣的是，Board Game Geek并没有将社交推理列为一种机制。

know. Yes. Now is social deduction the primary mechanism of the game? Right? So what's interesting, Board Game Geek does not list social deduction as a mechanism.

它不是一个独立分类。所以你可以查找推理游戏列表，但找不到社交推理游戏列表。你可以查找叛徒、隐藏移动、隐藏身份等机制。还有其他通常归入社交推理的机制，但社交推理本身并不是一个独立分类。我确实

It is not a thing. So you can look up a list of deduction games, but you cannot look up a list of social deduction games. You can look up traitors and hidden movement, hidden identity, I think. There's other mechanisms that often fall under social deduction, but social deduction itself is not a thing. And I Yeah.

在我查这个的时候，我想我有点明白为什么了，因为社交推理确实包含的内容远不止…我觉得当你听到社交推理时，会立刻想到像狼人杀这样的游戏

As I was looking this up, I think I kind of realized why because social deduction really does encompass more than just like, I think when you hear social deduction, you think immediately of things like werewolf and

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

那一类。但还不止于此。

That ilk. But there is more to it than that.

不过确实，我觉得它也没有明确的定义。

But yeah, it's like also not clearly defined, I guess.

是的。我认为可以提出一个论点——可能很牵强——说所有桌游都是社交推理游戏。因为理论上，当我玩任何桌游时，比如以勃艮第城堡为例（因为很多人都知道这个游戏），社交推理本质上就是试图解读其他玩家，推断他们做了什么或将要做什么。这算是一种定义方式。

Yeah. I think there could be an argument, a very probably weak argument that all board games are social deduction games. Because in theory, when I'm playing any board game, let's use castles of burg as an example because a lot of people know castles of burgundy. Social deduction is attempting to basically read another player to deduce either what they have done or what they're going to do, perhaps. Like, that's one way you could define it.

没错。所以我觉得，即使在勃艮第城堡这类游戏中，预判对手行动或故意误导对方你的意图，都是游戏机制允许的操作。比如当你拿到船图块时，它会让你在回合顺序轨道上前进。嗯。于是你收集几个船图块，别人可能会想：天啊

Yes. And so I think that, like, even in a game like Castle's Burgundy, knowing what someone might do or trying to throw them off about what you're going to do is something you could do within the confines of that game. Like, when you get ship tiles in that game, it moves you forward on the track for turn order. Mhmm. And so you could pick up a couple of ship tiles and somebody might be like, oh my gosh.

他们想抢先进攻回合。但如果你不把这些船图块从供应区放到版图上，它们就毫无作用。所以你完全可以在非社交游戏中实施心理操控。就像设想

They're trying to jump ahead in turn order. But then if you don't place those ship tiles from your supply onto your board, they don't affect anything. So you could socially manipulate people in non social games. Yeah. Like, think

确实啊。这就好比

Well, yeah. It's like

难道所有游戏都能算社交推理游戏？

plus every the game a social deduction game?

我们讨论推理游戏的方式，但就像很多游戏一样，但并不是合作游戏。合作游戏不会是社交推理，因为你没有在欺骗

How we talk about deduction games, but like a lot of games But have not not cooperative games. Cooperative game would not be social deduction because you're not deceiving

哦，确实如此。你破坏了我那个'所有游戏都是社交推理游戏'的热门观点

your Oh, that's true. You've ruined my hot take that all games are social deduction games.

但就像所有竞技游戏都可以包含那种社交欺骗元素

But like all competitive games can have that social deception there.

是的。而且公平地说，我们也不是在讨论关于你意图的撒谎。我的意思不是说不行

Yeah. And we're not talking about, like, lying about your intentions either, to be fair. Like, I'm not saying No.

就像

Just like

比如，在我的下一回合，我会做x然后却做了y。这不是我在讨论的内容，对吧？因为那只是撒谎。是的

Like, on my next turn, I'm gonna do x and then doing y instead. Like, that's not what I'm talking about. Right? Because that's just lying. And that's Yeah.

这里没有细微差别。是的。你不能有合作的社交推理游戏，但可以有合作的推理游戏。是的，《Bombusters》就是一个很好的例子，我们俩都很喜欢

Like, there's no nuance there. Yeah. You can't have a cooperative social deduction game, but you can have a cooperative deduction game. Yes. Bombusters is a really good example of that that you and I both really like.

是的。我特别喜欢合作推理类游戏。

Yeah. I love cooperative deduction games.

没错。《炸弹克星》的巧妙之处在于它的设置有一定可变性。很多纯推理游戏都有固定场景或特定设置，比如给你一些限制条件，你必须找出唯一正确答案。而《炸弹克星》通过随机设置某些元素，使得每次游戏体验都不会完全重复，这点很赞。总的来说，你更喜欢推理还是社交推理游戏？

Yeah. And Bombusters is neat because the setup is somewhat variable. And a lot of pure deduction games, the kind of like their scenarios or specific setups for certain things, like here are the constraints and there is a one specific solution that you must find. Whereas in Bombusters, you randomize certain elements with with the setup, and so it's it's not always gonna be exactly the same every single time, which is kinda neat. In general, do you prefer deduction or social deduction?

我觉得是推理类。

I think deduction.

我想我和你看法一致。就像你说的，我以前更享受社交推理游戏。嗯，这其实有点有趣，因为我是个共情能力很强的人，不喜欢说谎让人难受。但过去我在社交推理游戏中最享受的时刻，恰恰是成功骗过整桌人的时候。

I think I'm at the same place. Like, to your point, I used to enjoy social deduction games more. Mhmm. And it is funny because I'm a highly empathetic person, and so I don't like lying because it makes people feel bad. But, like, some of my most enjoyable moments in social deduction games in the past have been when I have successfully tricked an entire table full of people.

我也是。而且我

Same here. And I

我觉得这是因为在日常生活中不会这样做。我想你和我有点相似。我们都是比较友善的人，平时根本不会做这类事。所以在绝对安全的环境里扮演所谓的'坏人'还挺有趣的。

think it's because I don't do that in my like, I think you and I are kind of similar. Like, we're nice people generally. Like, we don't do anything remotely like that in our normal lives. And so getting to be be the quote unquote bad guy in a very safe environment is a little fun.

是啊。但输了的话也

Yeah. But a loss also in a

很多 这很吓人。

lot It's scary.

是的。但在很多社交推理游戏中，人们不喜欢当坏人，因为那样压力更大。

Yeah. But also in a lot of social deduction games, don't like being the bad person because it's more stressful.

压力更大。

More stressful.

是的。没错。而且你也无法找出坏人是谁。因为我更喜欢尝试找出坏人，而不是当坏人，这就是为什么我喜欢《抵抗组织：阿瓦隆》，因为你需要找出梅林是谁。所以我更喜欢纯粹的推理，因为它没有当坏人的那种压力，但你仍然可以弄清楚事情。

Yeah. Yes. And then you also don't get to figure out who the bad people are. Because I like trying to figure out who the bad people are more than being the bad people, which is why I like Resistance Avalon because you have to figure out who Merlin is. So that's why I like deduction, pure deduction better because it doesn't have like that stress of being bad, but you still you get to figure out stuff.

那才是我更喜欢的部分。但我确实也喜欢愚弄别人，那总是很刺激。

That's like the part I like more. But I do still like fooling people. That's always really exciting.

是的。我注意到一件让我有点惊讶的事情是，在媒体和娱乐领域，真实犯罪内容有了显著的增长，

Yeah. Something that I've noticed that is kind of surprising to me is, like, in media and entertainment in general, there has been a pretty significant growth of true crime content,

比如

like

播客、电影、电视剧、纪录片。比如，过去五年到十年间，犯罪题材真的变得异常流行。然而，这种热度并没有延伸到桌游领域。我觉得这是有可能的。显然，你不会想用真实案例，但解谜这个概念本身很有潜力。

podcasts, movies, TV shows, documentaries. Like, crime over the past, I would say, five to ten years has really kind of, like, become incredibly popular. Yet, that hasn't translated over into the board game space. I feel like it could. Now, obviously, like, I don't think you'd wanna use real examples, but, like, the idea of solving mysteries.

确实有类似作品，比如《夏洛克·福尔摩斯：咨询侦探》、《嫌犯》。有很多合作类或单人解谜游戏，比如《追凶杀手》或《冷案》系列。我收到过一些评测副本

They have, like, Sherlock Holmes, consulting detective, suspects. They have a lot of cooperative ones or, like, single player ones. They have, like, the hunt a killer ones or like cold case. They have these I've gotten review copies of some

哦，这些类似真实案件的

of Oh, these like true.

那些单人侦探游戏。不像传统桌游，更像是单次解谜体验，里面有大量传单、照片等道具。但竞争性真实犯罪游戏——我好像从没玩过竞争类的。不过这个想法很有意思。

The solo like detective games. It's not like a board game. It's like a one mystery thing where you have like a lot of like flyers and different things, photos. But yeah, a competitive true crime one, like, I don't think I've played anything that's competitive. That would be interesting though.

可能会类似《悲剧循环者》，比如一个人扮演掩盖罪行的凶手，其他人努力破案之类的设定会很有趣。它

That would probably be kinda like Tragedy Looper, where like, if there's like one person who's a murderer covering it up and then the other people are trying to figure it out or something, that would be interesting. It

在当今时代这种游戏应该很容易推广。你想，既然听过真实犯罪播客，现在让你来当调查员——我脑子里已经能想象出这个尚未存在的游戏该怎么营销了。

just it seems like something that would be easy to market in this day and age. Right? Like, you know, you've listened to the True Crime Podcast. Now you be the investigator kind of a thing. Like, I I can, like, picture the marketing in my head for this nonexistent game, basically.

没错。很多推理游戏的问题是案件解完就结束了，像《咨询侦探》，玩过就知道谜底。但如果是一对多对抗模式，我觉得会很...可以。非常

Yeah. The problem with a lot of those mystery games is there's, like, cases and then you're done, like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective, you played the case and you know it. But if it were one versus many, I think this would feel Okay. Very

你和我是不是要一起设计一款神秘桌游？不。不。我们不会的。

Are you and I gonna design No. A mystery board game together? No. No. We're not.

好吧。

Okay.

如果听众中有谁知道类似的东西已经存在了 是的。比如

If any of you listeners know about something like this that exists already Yeah. Like a

一个对多个的犯罪解谜游戏 是的。这类游戏。肯定有类似的吧？我不知道。

one versus many crime solving Yeah. Type of game. There's gotta be something. Right? I don't know.

我们得看看是否有人知道这样的游戏。另外，如果有人受本期播客启发想制作一款，只需在鸣谢中提到我们就足够了。

We'll we'll have to see if anybody knows of any. And also, if someone is inspired to make one as a result of this podcast, feel free to just mention us in the credits and that'll be enough for us.

以上就是本周《桌游极乐》的全部内容。访问我们的网站boardgamebliss.com获取更多内容和链接。本节目由灰狐游戏赞助。即将登陆Kickstarter而后来到你身边的桌游台，正是备受期待的《吸血鬼幸存者》电子游戏的桌游改编版。通过访问vampiresurvivorsboardgame.com了解更多信息并注册获取未来更新，成为弹幕地狱的主宰。

And that's it for this week's Board Game Bliss. Visit our website, boardgamebliss.com for more content and links. This episode was sponsored by Grey Fox Games. Coming soon to Kick starter, then a tabletop near you, it's the highly anticipated board game adaptation of the Vampire Survivors video game. Be the bullet hell by visiting vampiresurvivorsboardgame.com to learn more and sign up for future updates.

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下次再见。游戏之眼，它们正注视着你，洞察你的一举一动。再见，各位。再见。

Until next time. Gaming eyes, they're watching you, and they see your every move. Bye, everyone. Bye.

是啊。不。我现在正要打喷嚏，所以我就继续不。该死。它消失了。

Yeah. No. And I'm about to sneeze right now, so I'm just gonna keep no. Dang it. It's gone.

哦，我讨厌这样。好吧。

Oh, I hate it. Alright.