热门话题：桌游策略

好的。

Okay.

我因为这个、这个和这个获得分数。

I get points for this, this, and this.

我该如何积累资源，争取赢得这些分数，或者抢先于蒂姆达成这个共同目标，或者先拿下这个合同？

How can I build up to try to get points and maybe beat Tim to this common goal or, you know, take this contract first?

我会试着给自己一个方向。

I'll try to give myself a direction.

我不喜欢被直接扔到中间，却没有任何方向。

What I don't like is just being tossed in the middle and not having any direction.

我只是原地打转，四处张望。

I'm just treading water, looking around.

我喜欢至少有一个目标去追求，或者有一个起点，能推动我出发，让我朝着某个方向前进。

I like having at least a a goal to strive towards or starting point, something that pushes me off, gets me going in a direction.

不管这个方向是否正确，至少我有个去处，有个目标，有些可以利用的东西，有些可以尝试去做的事。

And whether or not that's the right direction, at least I have somewhere to go, something to look some know, a goal, something to exploit, something to try to do.

我不喜欢刚进入游戏时那种原地踏步、不知所措的感觉。

I I don't like that treading water, what am I gonna do here sort of feeling when I first get into a game.

是的。

Yeah.

我也是，亚当。

I'm the same, Adam.

实际上，我通常会去寻找一些东西，我回想起以前玩过的任何游戏，当然，我经常玩各种不同类型的游戏，而我最常玩、最喜欢的游戏类型是轻中度欧式游戏。

And and actually, what I try to find, and I I was thinking back on any game where I kinda went into it, and, you know, obviously, I play different games all the time, and my most common and favorite types of games are are euros, mid weight euros.

它们通常有不同的目标可以追求。

And they tend to have different goals to go after.

我通常会坐下来，看看：有哪些终局目标？

And I usually sit down and I look at, okay, what are the end game goals?

那些短期目标又是什么？

What are the, you know, maybe near term goals?

我的派系擅长什么？

What does my faction do well?

然后尝试找到两个相互契合的方面。

And then try to find two things that fit together.

有没有一个终局目标与某个短期目标（比如回合目标）相匹配？

Is there an end game goal that fits with one of the shorter term, like the round goals?

或者有没有一个终局目标与我的派系擅长的方面相契合？

Or is there an endgame goal that fits with what my my faction does well?

或者有没有一个中期目标与我的派系擅长的方面相匹配？

Or is there a midterm goal that fits with what my faction does well?

所以我总是努力寻找两个可以同时达成的目标，如果我同时完成它们，或许能获得双重收益。

So I always try to find two things that if I do them both, I maybe will get a benefit for both.

这似乎很有效。

And that seems to work.

我的意思是，听好了。

I mean, listen.

我不是赢最多的玩家。

I'm not the winningest player.

你知道的吧？

You know?

来吧，马克。

Come on, Mark.

我确实向你要过一些数据。

I did ask you for some stats.

我的朋友马克负责记录我们每周的游戏之夜。

My friend Mark is the one who tracks our weekly game nights.

我让他在周三之前把数据发给我。

I told him to send them to me by Wednesday.

我还没收到。

I don't have them.

所以我也不知道自己在桌游中赢了多少场。

So I don't know how winning I am at board games.

我知道我只是和朋友玩得稍微有点竞争心而已。

I know I'm just, like, moderately competitive with friends.

但我觉得，当我表现好的时候，往往是因为我能在第一次玩的时候就找到那两个目标，然后把它们结合起来。

But I think when I do well, it's when I can find those two goals on a first play and then put them together.

而且至少，就像亚当说的，有一个目标真的很棒。

And at least again, like Adam said, though, it's great to have a goal.

有目标很好，你知道的，至少你是在朝着某个目标努力。

It's great to have something, you know, you're at least working to achieve.

即使没有赢得比赛，当你实现目标时，那种感觉也很棒。

And it feels good when you accomplish that even if it doesn't result in a win.

所以这通常是我玩游戏时的第一策略。

So that's that's usually my first first strategy in a game.

从那里开始，那你第二次玩的时候会怎么处理呢？

From there so what how do you approach a second play?

你知道吗，你提升游戏水平的方法是什么？

You know, what what what's your approach for getting better at a game?

你已经玩过第一轮了，玩过最初的那几轮了。

You've played that first game, the first couple the first couple games.

你有没有什么通常会用的固定方法？

Is there anything that you, like, kind of standard go to?

比如，你会去研究策略吗？

Like, do you actually research strategy?

你会尝试从过去的胜利中学习吗？

Do you do you, like, try to learn from the past wins?

你会不会说，哦，我朋友在某个区域玩马吉赢了，所以那里肯定是强势点。

Do you do you say, oh, my friend won in that area for Maj, so that's definitely the overpowered place.

下次我得去那里。

That's where I gotta go to next time.

或者在第一局之后，你还有别的什么方法来提升策略水平？

Or do you have something else that you kinda lean into to to grow in strategy after that first game?

就像上一个问题，我对这个问题采取非常随性的态度，其实并没有什么固定的做法。

Well, like with the last question, I have a very laissez faire approach to this this issue, and I don't really have a go to thing that I do.

所以，如果我在某个游戏中进步了，通常只是因为我一直坚持玩下去。

So I'd say most often, if I'm improving at a game, it's generally because I've just kept playing it.

每次我都会学到一点点新东西，反思哪些方法有效、哪些无效，并做出一些观察。

And each time I learn another little thing or two and I reflect on, you know, the things that worked and the things that didn't and maybe make some observations.

或者如果我看到别人做了某件事，明显是因为他们做了这个才大获全胜，我下次玩的时候就会试着模仿，或者做得更接近那种方式。

Or if I see somebody else do something that, oh, clearly, they crushed it because they did this thing, then I'll try to replicate that the next time I play, or I'll try to do something a little bit more like that.

但这一切都非常自然随意。

But it's it's all very organic.

我的意思是，我不会特意去研究该怎么做。

I mean, I don't go out and research what to do.

我通常也不会去问别人，嘿。

I generally don't ask people, hey.

你做了什么？

What did you do?

你是怎么赢这场的？

How did you win this game?

你到底用了什么方法？

You know, what what thing did you do?

或者仔细关注获胜玩家在做什么。

Or pay that close attention to what the winning players are doing.

事实上，我在玩这些游戏时应该做的一件事就是留意别人在做什么。

In fact, it's probably one of the things that I should do in games that I'm playing is pay attention to what other people are doing.

比如，我在BGA上玩这些游戏，却根本不知道别人做了什么。

Like, I play these games on BGA, and, like, I have no idea what somebody did.

我能看到游戏的状态，但根本没注意他们的具体走法。

I can see what the game state is, but I'm not paying any real attention to what their moves are.

我可能因此在这些游戏中进步得更快，但也许只是因为我本身并不是那种特别好胜的人。

And I probably get much better at these games, but maybe that's just because overall, I'm not mister super competitive.

所以我本该对自己的游戏表现更上心一些，但我就是这样的性格。

So, I probably ought to take more I kinda take more pride in my gaming than I do, but but I'm just I'm just not that way.

所以，我们刚才在讨论你提升游戏水平的方法是什么？

So, yeah, we're talking about sort of what's your approach for getting better at a game?

就像你提到的，蒂姆，在最初的几次游戏中，我只是试着理解游戏机制，以及它们是如何协同运作的。

Like, the first few plays, like you mentioned, Tim, I'm just kinda trying to get a grasp of the the mechanisms, how they all coalesce and work together.

如果一款游戏足够吸引我，就像克里斯那样，我会去好好思考一下。

And then if a game grabs me enough, like Chris, I'll just kinda contemplate.

这些机制到底是做什么的？

What what well, what are these mechanisms do?

也许我可以试试这样做，再把它和另一件事结合起来，这样或许能在游戏中产生一些优势。

Oh, maybe this I can try doing this thing and couple it with this other thing, and maybe that'll generate some some power in the game.

我可以让自己更开放一些，拥有更多选择，做更多事情。

I can open myself up a little bit more, have more options, do more things.

如果游戏足够吸引我。

You have the game grabs me enough.

我只是喜欢这种深入思考的过程。

I just like doing this sort of content contemplation kind of a thing.

现在，我和莎拉一起玩过一款游戏。

Now, Sarah and I played a game together.

我们经常讨论策略。

We talk strategy tons.

再次，前几次玩的时候，我们只是在摸索这些机制。

Again, first couple plays, we're just kind of working out the mechanisms.

哦，你是怎么做到的？

Oh, how'd you do that?

那是个很酷的小组合。

That was a cool little combo.

给我讲讲这个。

Tell me about that.

然后我们会更深入地研究它。

And then we'll kind of get a little deeper onto it.

天啊，我真的不想告诉你我的策略，因为你知道，我可还想一直赢下去。

Oh, seriously, I don't want to tell you my strategy because, you know, I'm gonna keep winning.

但我要告诉你我做了什么。

But here's what I did.

我们会进行这样的讨论和分析，互相切磋，提升彼此的水平。

And she'll we like having that discussion and that sort of analysis and how we can sort of sharpen each other's swords as you're playing against each other.

我们喜欢这么做。

We like doing that.

所以，它不会变得过于竞争激烈。

So, it it doesn't get overly competitive.

我们只是喜欢去破解游戏机制，看看能把它带到什么程度。

We just like figuring a game out and seeing where we can take it.

所以我喜欢这样。

So I like that.

如果是卡牌构筑类游戏，我可能会尝试一些以前有效的方法。

If it's a deck builder, maybe I'll try something that's worked before.

比如，获取那些能给你带来强大购买力的卡牌。

For instance, get the cards that are gonna give you a lot of purchasing power.

这在很多不同的卡牌构筑游戏中似乎都是个不错的策略。

That seems to be a decent strategy in a lot of different deck builders.

所以，我可能会朝着这个方向发展，看看能不能在游戏早期就拿到一些更强力的卡牌，然后看看会带来什么结果。

So maybe I'll start working it towards that, see if I can get some more powerful cards early on in the game and see where that takes me.

所以，如果我有一些其他经过验证的策略，曾在其他游戏中奏效，我可能会在更熟悉游戏机制后尝试将它们付诸实践。

So if I have some other, you know, tried and true strategies that I've seen work in other games, maybe I'll start that putting that something like that into practice as I get more familiar with the mechanisms.

亚当，我来就这一点追问一下，因为你提到和莎拉一起玩的时候。

Let me follow ask a follow-up to that one, Adam, because you mentioned when you were playing with Sarah.

我发现，当我和蕾切尔玩的时候，我几乎希望她赢，因为我知道这会让她更愿意和我一起玩游戏。

I find that when I play with Rachel, I almost want her to win because I know that it's gonna make her more likely to wanna play games with me.

所以我觉得我和我的伴侣玩的时候，特别没有竞争心。

And so I feel like I'm uniquely uncompetitive with my significant other.

你和莎拉也是这样吗？还是说你依然对她有竞争心？

So do you is it like that with you and Sarah, or do you still feel competitive with

是的。

her?

克里斯，这个问题其实是个平衡的艺术。

So that's a balancing act of a question right there, Chris.

等等。

Wait.

莎拉会听吗？

Does Sarah listen?

也许要稍微克制一下，是的。

Maybe maybe temper that Yeah.

我

I'm

来回答这个问题。

up and answer that.

我和莎拉玩的时候，我绝对不会故意输给她。

So I I definitely don't try to throw any games when I'm playing with Sarah.

她不会觉得这样好受。

She wouldn't feel good about it.

我也不会觉得这样好受。

I wouldn't feel good about it.

所以我 definitely希望她能觉得，她能和我公平竞争，因为你知道，我们已经不玩阿祖尔了。

So I definitely want her to, like, feel like it's a game that she can be competitive with me at because she you know, we don't play Azul anymore.

她总是说：我赢不了你。

She's like, I can't beat you.

我不玩阿祖尔了，老兄。

I'm not gonna play Azul, dude.

但很多其他卡牌构建类游戏、其他桌游，我们拥有的那些游戏，她都很厉害。

But a lot of these other deck builders, a lot of these other, board games, lot the games that we have, she's sharp.

所以如果游戏选对了，那很多方面也都是以游戏本身为中心的。

So if the game is right, then a lot of it's game focused too.

如果游戏合适，我们俩都同样有竞争力，而且她也有意愿想提高，我就会在和她玩的时候更推荐这些游戏。

So if it's the right game and we're both equally competitive at it and the will is there for her to wanna get better at it, I'll kind of promote those games a little more when I'm playing with her.

克里斯，我这样回答问题算够圆滑了吗？

Did that answer the question diplomatically there, Chris?

你不仅回答了问题，而且非常得体。

That both answered the question and was very diplomatic.

干得漂亮，现在你是外交官了。

So nicely done, ambassador now.

这是一个很好的问题，克里斯，我原本没列在清单上。

That's a that's a great question that I didn't have on my list, Chris.

所以我要插一句，也来回答一下。

So I'm gonna jump in and answer it as well.

对于我那些老朋友来说，我们以前总说关于我的一句话：一定要赢。

For old friends of mine, we used to have this this whole the saying about me and it was play to win.

也就是说，我从不故意输掉游戏。

Like, I never threw a game.

有时这反而对我不利，因为我不在乎和谁玩。

And at my detriment sometimes, like, I didn't care who I was playing with.

即使和我六岁的女儿玩，我也要赢。

I was playing with my six year old daughter, play to win.

你永远都不该故意输掉一局游戏。

You always you never throw a game.

这是糟糕的策略。

It was bad strategy.

听我说，我学到了很多。

Listen, I've learned a lot.

我作为一个成年人也成长了。

I've grown as an adult.

但和我妻子在一起，现实是，如果我总是赢，她就不会再和我玩游戏了。

But with my wife, the reality is is that I do have to be like, if I win all the time, she's not gonna play a game with me anymore.

但如果我不能全力以赴、保持竞争力，玩游戏也没什么意思，所以这对我来说其实没那么重要。

But if I can't be competitive and try my hardest, it's not fun to play anyway, so that doesn't really matter that much to me.

因此，我尝试去找一些适合我们双方技能水平的游戏，这样玩起来才有趣。

So instead, what I try to do is find games that are a good mix, you know, a good fit for for both of our skills so that it is fun.

它可以是有竞争性的。

It can be competitive.

这对我来说是最好的策略。

And that's the best strategy for me.

不过，我还是希望她能赢。

I do want her to win though.

因为我知道，如果她赢了，她就会玩得开心，我们也会更愉快，她也更愿意再来玩。

Like, because I know that if she's winning, she's having fun, we're having a better time, She's more likely to come back.

但我不会故意输掉比赛。

But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna throw the game.

我不会为她放水或降低难度。

I'm not gonna make it easier for anything.

有趣的是，她根本不想听我的策略建议，尽管我其实希望她赢。

Interestingly, she doesn't want to hear my strategy recommendations at all, even though I want her to win.

她也不想听我讲解我的每一步操作，这也很有意思，因为通常我和朋友玩的时候都会这么做。

She doesn't wanna hear me talk through my turns, which is also interesting because, like, most of the time, just do that with friends.

我要走这一步。

Hey, I'm gonna move here.

我要走这一步。

I'm gonna move here.

她却说：你能不能别老告诉我你打算干嘛？

And she's like, would you stop telling me what you're doing?

我不在乎。

I don't care.

你就别管了，赶紧结束你的回合，轮到我了。

Just let me just get done with your turn and take it.

所以你可以想象，我们的游戏之夜非常有趣。

So as you can imagine, our game nights are super fun.

而且很安静。

And quiet.

是的。

Yeah.

而且很安静。

And quiet.

但不管怎样，回到我之前提到的那个问题：如何提高游戏水平。

But anyway, going back to the the question that I had talked about was approach for getting better at a game.

我认为，克里斯，我的方法和你的类似，就是我不会刻意去研究策略。

I think, Chris, my approach is similar to yours, which is I don't intentionally try to figure out strategy.

我觉得这有点像是潜移默化，因为我上次玩过这个游戏。

I think there's a little bit of just osmosis of like, I played through that game last time.

我觉得人们常常忽略策略中的一个关键因素，至少我从未听人谈起过，那就是节奏。

And I think that one of the key things that people don't think about strategy, or at least I never hear it talked about, is tempo.

很多游戏的成功在于你知道何时该转变策略，或者何时至关重要——我们以前也讨论过这一点。

A lot of games are successful when you know when to pivot in a game or when when it's important to oh, we've talked about this in the past.

你什么时候该从构建引擎阶段转向得分阶段？

The when do you move from the the engine building to the point getting?

在你们这类游戏中，这一点非常重要。

You know, there's a big element to that in a lot of your type of games, for example.

但有时候，你单靠阅读规则是无法确定这一点的。

But it's like, sometimes you just can't you can't determine that when you just read the rules.

只有当你真正体验过节奏，感受到某人已经积累到某个阶段时，你才会明白。

You don't know that until you've kind of seen the tempo, until you can start to feel like, oh, someone's built up to this point.

这时候就该开始为终局做准备，为自己争取高分布局了。

It's time to now start getting prepped for the end game and set myself up for the big score.

所以很多东西都靠感觉，这也是我最喜欢游戏的地方。

And so a lot of it is just feel, and I that's my favorite part about games.

赢并不是我最喜欢的部分。

The winning isn't my favorite part.

我喜欢的是探索游戏，自己慢慢琢磨出策略。

It's the exploring the game and kind of figuring out the strategy on my own.

我不希望别人告诉我策略是什么。

I don't want anyone to tell me what the strategy was.

我其实还有一些其他问题，但对我个人而言，如果我能通过思考找到一个酷炫的策略并赢得游戏，这会让我特别开心。

I actually have a I have some other questions on this, but for me personally, it's it's more fun for me to just if I can figure out if I can win a game just by thinking through, like, what's a cool strategy, I that makes me happy.

如果我赢了是因为别人告诉我‘最佳策略就是一直做这件事’，那对我来说完全不有趣。

If I win a game because somebody told me, okay, the OP strategy is always to go to this thing, That's not that's not fun at all to me.

所以我通常不会尝试别的，只是回想上一次游戏的节奏是怎样的。

So I don't really try anything other than just, hey, last time it kinda flowed like this.

我会试着稍微调整那种节奏，然后运用我一贯的策略：找出几个能协同配合的要素，然后全力去追求它们。

Let me try to adapt a little bit to that flow and then use my my similar strategy of finding a couple things that work together and go after them.

那么，变得更好对你来说通常重要吗？

So is getting better important to you typically?

也就是说，这对你重要吗？

Like, is it important for you?

我觉得，克里斯，你已经差不多回答过这个问题了，你玩一个游戏几次。

I think, Chris, you kind of answered this already, but you play a game a couple times.

也许你前几次都没赢。

Maybe you didn't win the first couple.

你在意自己是否进步，还是说即使经常输，你也能享受游戏的过程？

Do you care if you get better, or do you do you enjoy even when you're losing a game regularly?

你想要成为最厉害的吗？

Do you wanna be the best at it?

从这个角度来看，你们通常是怎么看待游戏的？从竞争的角度呢？

How how do you guys typically approach games from that perspective, from a competitiveness perspective?

我们其实做过一期关于竞争的节目，所以你们或许可以回去听听那一期。

We actually had an episode on competition, so maybe you should go back and listen to that one.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但让我们回到这个问题上来。

But let's circle back to the question here.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在刚刚花了两个问题谈论我不太在意、也没太关注之后，我知道。

So after just spending two questions talking about how I don't really care that much and I'm not paying that much attention I know.

不过有几个值得注意的例外。

There are a couple of notable exceptions.

其中最明显的是，如果我感觉自己在某个游戏中已经自然地变得足够厉害，以至于我可以称自己是个不错的玩家。

And the most notable of which is if there is a game that I feel like I have organically gotten good enough at that I would call myself a good player.

比如说，在BGA上达到250分以上的ELO水平，那种级别的玩家。

So let's say a two fifty or above ELO on BGA, that kind of player on a game.

然后突然间，就像有个小魔法开关被拨动了。

Then all of a sudden there's like this little magic switch that gets flipped.

然后我就突然觉得自己是个专家了。

And all of a sudden I think of myself as an expert.

而既然我现在是专家了，这就牵涉到一些自尊心了。

And now now that I'm an expert, there's some ego involved in it.

所以事情就发生了变化。

And so that's when things change.

因此，有几款游戏我真的非常在意。

So there are a few games that I actually do really care about.

举几个例子，比如玩《Azul》。

Just a couple of examples, playing Azul.

我已经变得足够厉害了。

Like, I've gotten good enough.

我觉得我在《Azul》上的ELO已经达到了300，现在我会为自己的对局感到自豪。

I think I've got, a 300 ELO on Azul, and now I take some pride in my games.

如果我跟一个ELO低很多的人对局却输了，我会有点不高兴。

And if I play against somebody who's got a much lower one and I lose, I I kinda get upset about that.

有一款游戏让我特别惊讶，我对此感到非常兴奋，那就是我刚开始玩《达尔文之旅》的时候，不知为何，这款游戏突然就跟我产生了共鸣。

One game that I was really surprised, that I got excited about, It was when I first started playing Darwin's Journey, and for some reason, that game just clicked with me.

我觉得我一下子明白了。

And I thought I just got it.

一切似乎都变得清晰起来。

It just everything just seemed to make sense.

就像《黑客帝国》里时间变慢的场景，我看着一切在眼前缓缓展开。

And it's like, you know, the matrix where everything slows down and I'm like watching it all.

然后我心里想，哦，是的。

And I'm like, oh, yeah.

这真是我的游戏。

This is my game.

我要把所有人都碾压一遍。

I am gonna wail on everybody.

但后来我跟朋友埃里克对战，他每一步都跟我平时的做法完全相反，结果彻底击败了我。

And then I played against my friend Eric who did everything exactly the opposite of what I would have done in a normal game, and he absolutely crushed me.

我当时就想，刚才到底发生了什么？

And I'm like, what just happened?

而且这还是他第一次玩这个游戏。

And this is his first time ever playing this game.

所以一方面，这让我很不爽，因为我想，我这么擅长这个游戏，怎么会输给一个从来没玩过的人呢？

And so for one, that irritated me just because I'm like, oh, how could I have gotten beaten by somebody who'd never played the game before when I'm so good at this game?

这也影响了我学习游戏的方式。

And that also affected how I went about learning the game.

比如，我发现自己确实输了很多次，现在已经输给他好几次了，也输给了其他更强的玩家。

Like, I actually found myself losing you know, I've lost to him several times now, and I've lost to better players.

而且因为我现在对这个游戏投入了一点自尊心。

And and so I really do because I have a little bit of ego invested in that game now.

所以我真的会特别留意，认真思考，比如，有哪些实现目标的方法不是我通常会用的标准策略，尤其是看到那些顶尖玩家时，他们在做什么，才能拿到那么多分数？

I'm I really do kind of pay attention and think about, you know, what are the different ways to accomplish something that are not maybe the standard default strategies that I would go with and really seeing, especially with those really high level players, what are they doing that gets them the points that they're scoring?

所以这几局游戏其实是个很好的例子，比如《星际殖民》。

And so those few games actually, another good example, Star Realms.

我的意思是，当然是《星界实境》。

I mean, of course, Star Realms.

你知道，《星界实境》是我玩得最多的游戏。

You know, Star Realms is my most played game of all time.

当我没赢一局《星界实境》时，我会有点恼火，因为我觉得就算运气再差，我依然觉得自己挺厉害的。

And I get a little irritated when I don't win a game of Star Realms because I feel like I'm even with all the luck, I still feel like I'm pretty good at it.

我本该赢更多次的。

I ought to be winning more often than I do.

所以，一旦我到了那种状态，事情对我来说就开始变得重要了。

So, you know, once I get to that point, then things start mattering to me a little bit more.

但大多数时候，我玩其他游戏根本不在乎，真的。

But for most of the games I play, I I just I just don't sweat it, man.

就像周日早晨一样轻松自在。

Like, easy like Sunday morning.

克里斯，你是不是该等你真的在《星界实境》里赢过我之后，再担心你的自尊心？

Chris, shouldn't you wait until after you actually have a winning record against me in Star Realms before you worry about your ego?

你凭什么觉得我没有？

What makes you think I don't?

只是假设而已。

Assumption.

我不知道。

I don't know.

比分是多少？

What's the record?

你有记录吗？

Do you have do you have it?

我们现在比分是多少？

Do have our score right now?

我们现在怎么样？

Where are we?

我确实有。

I I actually do.

你领先了一两局，所以我们已经非常接近了。

You're up by a game or two, so we're getting very close.

哇。

Wow.

我们非常接近了。

We're very close.

这真有趣。

That's funny.

每隔六个月左右，人们就会收到一份关于克里斯的明星积分报告。

Every every six months or so, people get a report on Chris' nice star Yeah.

星域记分记录，不管他们是否想要。

Star Realms record, which whether they want it or not.

我也打算在克里斯身上插一句关于星域的调侃。

I was gonna throw in a Star Realms jab in there on Chris too.

击败克里斯玩星域真的很有意思。

It's really fun to beat Chris at Star Realms.

真的，真的很有意思。

Really, really fun.

他输给自己时会生气。

He gets angry when he beat himself.

不是生气，但你知道，他对此很自豪。

Not angry, but, you know, he does take pride in it.

所以我们能从克里斯那里赢一局。

So we can take one from Chris.

感觉太棒了。

It feels fantastic.

无论如何，我们在讨论你为提高游戏水平投入了多少努力。

Anyway, we're talking about sort of how much effort do you put into getting good at games.

和克里斯一样，我其实不太在意。

So very much like Chris, I don't really care.

我只投入足够多的精力来保持竞争力，当然有一些例外情况。

I just enough to be competitive with some notable exceptions.

Azul 是我决定喜欢上的一个拼图游戏。

Azul was one I decided that I liked that puzzle there.

我想看看自己能在这个游戏里做到多好。

I wanna see how good I can get at this one.

所以在过去的几年里，我投入了大量精力深入学习 Azul，试图自己摸索出一套策略。

So over the last couple years, I put a deep dive effort into learning Azul, trying to figure out my own strategy organically.

我会和一些比我厉害的玩家稍微聊聊策略，你知道的。

I would talk strategy a little bit with some better players than I, you know.

有几位在桌游竞技场上的玩家非常友好，经常和我讨论策略，我也很享受这种交流。

Couple of guys were very friendly on board game arena talking strategy and really enjoy talking it.

所以和这些高手们来回闲聊他们喜欢怎么玩，真的很有趣。

So it was fun to chitchat back and forth about what some of those better players like to do.

然后是 Barrage，有一阵子我特别努力提升它，我觉得我的黄色等级可能升到了200左右。

And then barrage, I was to get really good at barrage for a while, and I think I got maybe up to 200 or something on my yellow.

但后来我就觉得没必要再花那么多精力去冲击300、400级别的玩家了，他们根本碾压我。

And then there's just a threshold that I don't wanna put the effort into, you know, bump up against these 300, 400 level players, and they just destroy me.

就是有个门槛我过不去，要么我没那个决心突破，要么就是我看不清怎么突破，总归是这两种情况。

There's just some threshold I can't get I don't have the will to get past it or I just can't see it, one of those two.

然后我就稍微退回来了。

Then I just kinda tampered back.

是的。

Yeah.

Barrage 很有趣。

Barrage is fun.

我可以和你们一起玩，勉强跟得上。

I can play it with you guys and hang in there.

会挺有竞争性的。

It'll be pretty competitive.

我对 Barrage 还算拿手，但有些人水平高得多，我不想达到那个层次。

And I'm okay at Barrage, but there's people at a different level so that I don't wanna get to.

所以我就干脆退一步，顺其自然了。

So then I'll just kinda back off and let it go.

但大多数游戏，我其实并不在意，只要能玩得开心，找到一些有趣的事情做，创造一些激动人心的时刻，达成我设定的目标就够了。

But most games, I don't really care as long as I can have some fun, maybe find this or that fun thing to do, make an exciting moment for myself, meet some goals that I was going for.

这就是我为玩好游戏所投入的努力程度。

That's how much effort I'll put into getting good games.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，变得更好对我重要吗？

So is getting better important to me?

我认为不重要。

And I think no.

我想不出哪款游戏是我真正在意到想要努力提升水平的。

I can't think of a game where I've actually cared enough to to to like try to get better.

我只是想坐下来，

Like I just wanna sit down and

嗯，万智牌。

Well, Magic the Gathering.

其实我本来就想谈谈这个，亚当，因为有趣的是，我刚才在回顾，当然，这是二十年前的事了，记忆有点模糊，我不确定自己能不能记清楚。

Well, was actually gonna I'm gonna talk about that, Adam, because what's interesting is I I was looking back, and again, this is, you know, twenty years back, so it's like memory is shaky and who knows if I can remember this.

但我认为，我玩万智牌甚至策略思考的方式，和我玩桌游的方式很相似：每当有新系列发布，我会坐下来玩限量抽牌，看看自己能不能成功，慢慢培养出直觉。

But I think that most of my approach to playing Magic and even strategizing with it is similar to approach to board games, which is it was fun for me to sit down with a new set that came out, do a limited draft, and just see if I could pull it off and start to get the instinct for it.

那时候有个概念，我相信现在可能还存在，叫网络套牌。

There was this whole concept, I'm sure it still exists, but back in the day of Net Deck.

比如，如果你在玩万智牌的构筑赛，可以上网查到最近两场锦标赛的冠军套牌，然后直接照着搭一副。

So like if you were playing Constructed in Magic the Gathering, you could go online and find out what was the winning deck for the last two tournaments and then just build it.

去买齐你需要的牌，然后组装起来。

Go buy the cards you need and build it.

但我从来都没玩过那种套牌。

And I never ever played one of those.

我讨厌那种做法。

I hated it.

我讨厌这种概念。

I hated the concept of it.

我的目标一直都是想出一些有创意的东西，构建一副能击败别人的牌组。

My whole goal was to come up with something creative, build a deck that would beat somebody else.

这就是为什么我后来不再玩构筑赛，因为那变得太无聊了。

And that's kind of why I stopped playing constructive because that got that got boring.

你开始看到同样的牌组互相对抗。

You started to see the same deck built against each other.

所以限制赛对我来说变得特别有趣。

So limited got really fun for me.

我觉得我从来没有真正追求过策略。

And I don't think I really ever went after strategy.

你知道，那并不是我探索过的东西。

You know, like that wasn't something I explored.

我记得的只是玩牌时那种直觉上的感受。

It wasn't something that I I I what I remember is like playing, just feeling the gut instinct of it.

我记得有一次坐下来，那时候有个叫《万智牌在线》的东西。

I remember one time sitting down, there used to be this, The Gathering Online.

所以有个线上版本，你可以玩万智牌。

So an online version, you could play magic.

我会去参加轮抽。

And I would go and do drafts.

我和一个好朋友，也是个万智牌玩家，有一次我对他说：嘿，伙计，让我给你展示一下。

And my one buddy that I was a good friend with and a Magic player with, one time I was like, hey, dude, let me show you.

我已经对这个格式非常熟悉了。

I've gotten so used to this format.

我敢打赌，我能根据对手第一张地牌，预测出他接下来要出的三张牌。

I bet I can predict the next three card that player's gonna play based on the first land he played.

我真的做到了。

And I did it.

这完全是通过大量玩游戏，逐渐培养出对游戏的直觉，根据哪些卡牌流行、哪些卡牌在轮抽中经常出现，来预判接下来会出什么。

And it was just by playing the game so much and kinda getting the gut feel for it and the instinct of what was gonna come out based on what were popular cards, what would show up in the draft a lot.

所以对我来说，这纯粹是探索的乐趣。

And so for me, it was just the fun of exploring it.

他们称之为预发布锦标赛，每当新系列发布时，坐下来查看卡牌，并在第一次玩的时候尝试自己分析。

What they call a pre release tournament when a new set came out and just sitting down and seeing the cards and trying to analyze them yourself on the first play.

我觉得，我在精通万智牌时获得的乐趣，和我在精通桌游时获得的乐趣是一样的。

I think I got the same fun out of getting good at Magic as I do out of getting good at board games.

所以我确实想变得厉害，我想要精通。

So I did want to get I wanted to be good.

对吧？

Right?

我当时可能更具有竞争性，但我从未以那种让我愿意投入大量精力去提升的方式去对待它。

I want I was I was probably more competitive at that point, but I never approached it in a way that made me want to put a lot of effort into it and and get better in in that aspect.

所以我也说不准。

So I I don't know.

也许这只是我的记忆罢了。

Maybe that's my memory anyway.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

好的。

Okay.

我本来有一大堆问题，但你们刚才聊的几个话题已经回答了大部分。

I had a whole list of questions, but you guys answered most of them just in your couple of topics here.

但我确实还有几个我们还没提到的问题。

But I I do have a couple that I think we haven't touched on yet.

第一个问题是，有没有哪款游戏你觉得你已经达到了自己能到达的最高水平？

The first was if there's any games you feel you're the best you'd ever care to be.

换句话说，你觉得自己会不会永远无法再提升这项游戏的水平？或者你觉得你已经到了极限，不可能再进步了？

In other words, do you think that you're never gonna get better at this game, or do you think, like, you're kind of at the max and you can't get any better?

如果是这样，是哪些游戏呢？

If so, what are they?

你觉得自己绝对最擅长的游戏有哪些？

What what are some games you think you're absolutely the best at?

比如，你已经达到了巅峰状态，也许还有比你更强的玩家，但你不会再继续追求更进一步了。

Like, top of your game, maybe there's better players, but you're not gonna you're not gonna go after it any further.

你已经相当厉害了。

You're you're pretty you're pretty freaking awesome already.

我会说没有。

I'm gonna say no.

没有任何一款游戏让我觉得自己已经达到了理想的巅峰，因为我如果在乎某个游戏，就显然还想变得更好——毕竟没有哪款游戏是我强到没人能赢我的。

There's no game that I feel like I am the best I would ever wanna be because I'm either I either care about the game, in which case, clearly, I wanna get better because there's no game that I'm so good at that nobody can beat me.

那些我最接近巅峰的游戏，我依然经常被狠狠击败。

The ones that I was closest on, I still get wailed on pretty regularly.

还有我玩过的大量其他游戏。

And then there's all the the masses of games that I play.

也许对于那些我不太在意的游戏，确实如此——我经常输得很惨，但我也不在乎。

And I guess I could say maybe, you know, for the ones I don't really care about that, sure, you know, I I get my butt kicked a lot, and I don't really care.

所以也许我确实不需要变得更好。

So maybe I don't need to get any better.

但话说回来。

But, I mean, come on.

真的吗？

Really?

我认为我玩的任何游戏，能比现在更好一点都会很好。

I think any game that I'm playing, it would be nice to be better than I am.

所以，不，我不认为有任何游戏是我已经达到统治地位、不需要再提升的。

So so, no, I don't think there's any game where I have achieved dominant status and I don't need to improve.

我总是希望进步。

I'd always like to improve.

很多时候，只是因为我没有那种能力或精力去真正努力提升这些游戏的水平。

A lot of times, it just has to come down to I don't have the, the wherewithal or the this, you know, the the energy to actually try to get better at those games.

也许我只是太懒了。

Maybe I'm just being lazy.

也许这正是我问你的问题，克里斯，那就是：你已经达到了你愿意达到的最好水平。

Maybe that's exactly the question I asked, Chris, which is you're as good as you'd ever care to get.

听起来你已经在几款游戏中达到了那个点。

It sounds like you've you have hit that point with a few.

但问题是，我还是想把它们玩得更好。

Well, except that I would like to get better at them.

我只是不想花那么多精力去折腾。

I just don't feel like going through the effort.

不想花力气去投入。

Don't wanna put the effort into it.

说得通。

Fair enough.

我觉得我的回答和你的非常相似，克里斯。

I think my answer is very similar to yours, Chris.

我说过，我玩的大多数游戏，能达到我想要的水平就差不多了，大概有90%的游戏，我玩到那个程度就不想再提升了。

I said most of my games that I have, that's as good as I ever wanna be at the maybe 90% of games that I that I have or that I've played.

我对第一次玩、前几次玩就挺满意的。

I'm happy with, you know, that first play, first couple plays.

如果这个游戏真的再次吸引我了，而且在我们玩完第一次之后，我还在想，天啊，这游戏真不错，而且它有个我特别感兴趣的题材。

If the game really grabs me again and it's I am contemplating it after we've played that first time and, man, that game was pretty neat and it has some theme that I'm really interested in.

那么我可能会花点时间，投入更多，达到下一个更高的游戏水平。

Then I might wanna take the time, get invested a little more, and get to that next higher level of play.

我知道我永远不可能达到卓越或成为世界顶尖，但有几款精选游戏确实让我非常感兴趣。

I know I'm never gonna be able to achieve greatness or be the best in the world, but there's a few select games that, oh, and, you know, that game really interests me.

我想稍微提升一下自己在这款游戏中的技巧，至少再迈进一步，增加一些竞争性。

I wanna sharpen my skills at this game a little more and get at least a little more of that next step of competitiveness to it.

而且，我会深入探索它的细微之处。

And, you know, it really explore the nuances of it.

我很喜欢深入研究其中一些游戏。

I love going deep into some of these.

不一定是变得特别厉害，但至少能深入挖掘，发现那些偶尔出现的特殊情况或边缘情况。

Not necessarily getting super good at them, but at least going deep and finding little corner cases, little edge cases that can happen.

埃里克·兰格有那么多游戏都是这样的。

Eric Lange has so many games that are like this.

一些奇特古怪的事情会因为你在游戏中构建的特定组合或引擎而出现，你可以用不同方式加以利用。

Weird funky things that can emerge because of certain combos you've developed or engines that you've built over the course of the game and be able to exploit that in different ways.

找到桌游中的这些细微角落。

Find these little nooks and crannies of a board game.

我特别喜欢这么做。

I love doing that.

这就像你之前提到的探索，蒂姆。

It's like that exploration you were talking about, Tim.

那我这么做是为了期望自己能变得非常擅长某个游戏吗？

So do I ever do that with the expectation of becoming really great at a game?

不一定，但探索这些领域很有趣。

Not necessarily, but it's fun to explore those regions.

就像我说的，对于我玩的游戏中大约百分之十，我想回头去深入探索，看看游戏能提供什么。

And like I said, for maybe ten percent of the games I play, that I wanna come back and explore all and see what the game has to offer.

里面有什么？

What's in there?

深入挖掘。

Go deep.

找出游戏中的所有角落和缝隙。

Find out all the nooks and crannies and the corners of a game.

但说到变得厉害，我其实并不在意。

But as far as getting good, I don't I don't really care about that.

首先，亚当，你就在几周前启发了我，当时我玩的一款游戏，我本来觉得没必要提升，而且我已经处于自己的巅峰水平。

Well, first of all, Adam, you actually inspired me this last a couple weeks ago, I think, on a game that I didn't think I needed to get better at, and I was kind of at the top of my game.

我至少有潜力达到那个水平，直到你在《盖亚计划》中打出200分，这让我觉得我必须搞清楚这一局。

And I at least had the potential to get there until you busted 200 in Gaia Project, which now I feel like I have to I have to figure that one out.

但有几款游戏，我觉得自己几乎总能以竞争性的方式玩，并且得分总能处于最高区间。

But, there's a couple games that I feel like I can pretty much always play competitively and at the top score range that they're gonna be in.

是的。

It's Yeah.

《勃艮第城堡》。

Castles of Burgundy.

我总是知道，大多数时候我都能拿到230到240分左右。

I always know that I can get around that two thirty, two forty mark most games.

有时候别人会赢我，但他们得分都会在差不多的范围内。

People will beat me sometimes, but they're gonna be in the same range.

我差不多知道该怎么玩。

I kind of have a I know how to do that.

我知道如何相对最优地进行游戏。

I know how to play reasonably optimally.

我认为《Everdell》就是这样。

Everdell, I think, is like that.

在我的小圈子中，我几乎总是赢，但我知道我肯定会被打败。

Know, I I almost always win it in my very small group that I play with, but I know that I I'm sure that I could get beat at it.

但我仍然喜欢玩它，只是现在我不在乎能不能打得更好了。

But I also feel like I still like playing it, but I don't care about getting better at it at this point.

然后《Arnak的失落废墟》也是其中之一。

And then Lost Ruins of Arnak is another one.

至少对于基础版，以及一些早期的扩展版来说是这样。

At least with at least with, like, the base game and, you know, maybe a couple of the early expansions.

还有很多新扩展内容值得探索。

There's new expansions that have a lot to explore.

但我感觉这款游戏里，大家最后得分通常都在60到80分之间。

But I feel like that game always everybody ends up in the, like, 60 to 80 range.

在大多数局里，我都能拿到七十几分的高分。

I can get up in the high seventies most games.

我偶尔会被打败，但差距通常只有几分。

I might get beat sometimes, but it's gonna be by a few points.

所以，尽管我依然享受玩这款游戏的过程，但我并不觉得有必要去发掘新的策略，因为策略层面已经没必要再深入了。

And so I don't feel like I have to discover any new strategy even though I still enjoy the playing of the game, even though the the strategy doesn't have to go further.

所以，这些都是我感觉自己已经达到上限的几个例子。

So those are a couple examples where I think I'm as high as I wanna be.

除此之外，要么我根本不太在意，要么就是对游戏还不够熟悉，还谈不上达到这个境界。

Otherwise, I either don't really care that much or don't know a game well enough to feel like I'm at that point.

但没错，这就是其中几个例子。

But, yeah, that that's a couple.

我想就这一点谈谈。

I just wanna touch on that point.

你提到一些你觉得很有竞争力的游戏。

So you mentioned a couple games that you feel like you're very competitive.

我想你提到了《Kaia Project》。

I think you mentioned Kaia Project.

我喜欢我们三个人能坐在一起，玩一个大家水平相当的游戏。

I like when the three of us can sit down at a table and we're relatively equally competitive at a game.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这最棒了。

That's the best.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

比如《火星殖民》这款游戏，我们三个人任何一人都有可能在玩的时候赢。

Like Terraforming Mars, where all three I think I think any of you guys can win anytime we play together.

而且我觉得我们每个人都有赢过，嗯。

And I think each of us has won Mhmm.

当我们三个人一起玩的时候，除了可能我之外。

When all three of us have played together, except maybe me.

我不记得我有没有在我们坐下来玩的时候赢过。

I don't know if I've ever won when we've sat down and played.

我觉得你可能

I feel like you've

大概吧，也许我赢过。

probably Maybe I have.

我觉得我有能力赢。

I feel like I could.

我觉得 somewhere in there，一定有那么一次。

I thought somewhere in there, it has to be.

对吧？

Right?

然后《沙丘：帝位》是另一个例子，我们三个人彼此对抗，任何时候任何一个人都有可能赢。

And then Dune Imperium is another one where we're all three each of us has one against the other and any of us could win at any time.

所以，我喜欢那种能营造这种氛围的游戏。

So games that create that environment, I really, really enjoy.

而且喜欢那种水平相当、谁都有可能赢、气氛紧张的玩家，这太棒了。

And the players too that are at that level where it's anybody can win and it's tense, that's great.

这才是完美的游戏。

That's the perfect game.

我根本不关心大家是不是达到某个特定水平。

I don't even care if everybody's at a certain level.

只要我们水平相当，根本不需要非得是高手。

Like, we don't even have to be good players as long as we're equal players.

只要我们差不多在同一水平，就能有竞争力。

Like, as long as we're kind of at the same level, we can be competitive.

这是一种挑战。

It's a challenge.

这很有趣。

It's fun.

当你赢的时候很刺激，因为你清楚自己本可能输掉；但输的时候也不觉得糟糕，因为对方并没有压倒性地碾压你——关于这一点，我其实还想再谈一谈。

It's exciting when you win because you know you easily could have lost it, but it's also okay when you lose because it wasn't like you got crushed because they were just so expert above you, which is another question I actually wanna touch back on.

但当然了，亚当。

But, yeah, absolutely, Adam.

那真是完美的游戏之夜。

That is a that's a perfect game night.

三个人技能相当，在一款有趣的游戏里对决。

Three people equally match similar skills in a fun game.

每次我都参加。

I'm I'm in there every time.

没错。

Yep.

那那些你不擅长、也看不到进步路径的游戏呢？

What about games you aren't good at and can't seem to see the path forward?

比如，有没有哪种游戏让你觉得：天啊，我真的不知道怎么才能提高？

Like, are there games where you're like, man, I don't understand how to get better at this game?

也许这会让你感到沮丧。

Maybe it upsets you.

也许你根本不在意。

Maybe you don't care.

但有没有哪种游戏，你就是觉得它的策略完全无法理解？

But is there any game that you're just like, the strategy just doesn't connect with?

你能看到有人玩得更好，但你完全不知道他们是怎么做到的。

You can see that there's better players, but you have no idea how to get there.

我认为，延续这个话题，Gaia Project 这款游戏曾经就是我的这种情况。

Well, I think to continue with the theme, Gaia Project was actually that game for me for a while.

我想，在我们玩的前十几局里，我就像个溺水的人一样胡乱挣扎。

I think probably the first dozen times we played, I was flailing around like a drowning man.

我的意思是，我根本不知道自己在做什么。

I mean, I had no idea what I was doing.

但后来某个时刻，我突然开窍了，不过我还是觉得，我没法像你们那样真正理解它。

And then at some point, something clicked, and I still feel like I don't get it the way that you guys do.

我的意思是，你们似乎已经内化了策略，能看懂棋盘。

I mean, it seems like you have internalized strategies and can read the board.

就像我现在对《达尔文之旅》能做到的那样，我在《盖亚计划》里却做不到。

The way that I feel like I can do now for the most part with Darwin's journey, I cannot do that with Gaia Project.

我总觉得每走一步都得绞尽脑汁，拼命争取每一个分数。

I feel like I'm always having to think really hard for every move to scrounge every point that I can get.

对我来说，每一个小收益都需要大量的思考、精心的策划，还得慢慢摸索各种选择的可能性。

To me, you know, every little benefit takes a lot of thought and a lot of strategizing and a lot of, you know, kind of feeling out what the different options would be.

这大概是我最能想到的例子——一个我在意却始终无法真正掌握的游戏。

That's probably the best example of a game that I I care about and don't seem to be able to really lock in on.

我实在想不出还有其他游戏像《盖亚计划》这样让我如此受阻。

I can't really think of others that stymie me the way that, that Gaia Project does.

就像我说的，盖亚计划这些年确实进步了，但这是我唯一能想到的。

And like I said, Gaia Project has gotten better over the years, but that's the only one I can really think of.

其他的，我觉得至少我有足够能力去学习，如果需要的话。

The others, I feel like I'm at least competent enough to be able to to learn if I need to.

我们现在玩过几款评审游戏，我只玩过一次，当时我觉得自己根本不知道该怎么做。

Now we have had a couple games that we've played that were review games that I've only played once, and I felt like I don't know what I would have done.

我一时想不起来具体是哪些，但我确实多次有过这种感受。

I none of them come to mind right off the top of my head, but I know I've made that observation a few times.

但也有其他时候，我们玩了一些只玩过一次的评审游戏，我会说，哦，对了。

And then there are other times when we played games that review one time games where I say, oh, yeah.

很明显，我能看出下次该怎么做不同。

Clearly, I can see what I would do differently next time.

但有些游戏对我来说就像个谜一样。

But there are some where I feel like it is just a it's a mystery.

我得玩好多次才能勉强有点概念，看看自己能不能搞懂这个游戏的机制。

I I would have to play it multiple times to even get an idea of whether I could figure out how this one works.

但你知道，大多数情况下，如果我玩完一个游戏后觉得完全摸不着头绪，不知道下一步该怎么做，除非这个游戏有什么特别有趣或能分散注意力的地方。

But, you know, for the most part, if I feel like that after playing a game for the first time and I don't feel like I have any clue what the path forward would be, unless there was something about it that was, I don't know, really fun or otherwise distracting.

我不明白自己为什么会再回去玩这样的游戏。

I don't know why I go back to a game like that.

是的。

Yeah.

克里斯，我想谈谈几件事。

Chris, I wanna touch on a couple of things.

你主要提到《盖亚计划》，以及我如何在《盖亚计划》中首次突破了200分，我觉得那是个异常情况。

You said mostly about Gaia Project and how I did put up a, over my first over 200 score in Gaia Project, and I think it was very anomalous.

我对《盖亚计划》的看法是，里面有一些特定的组合。

I just the way I think about Gaia Project is there's a few combos.

我是说，我通常先看那些进阶科技。

Well, I say, I look at the advanced techs, really is what I start with.

其中有一个科技能让你获得五个白色资源（或者可能是三个），并让你额外多走一步。

And there's that one that gives you the five or maybe it's three of the white resource and it lets you take a turn.

所以我听过一些人说，玩盖亚计划时，就试着多拿一轮回合。

So I've I've heard some people talk about Gaia Project as, oh, just try to take one more turn that round.

试着多拿一轮回合，尽量多待一会儿，争取在盖亚计划中获得最多的回合。

Try to get one more turn, stick around the longest, get the most turns in Gaia Project.

所以上次我们玩的时候，我有点过于依赖这个策略了。

So I leaned into that strategy a little heavily last time we played.

因此，在盖亚计划中，白色资源是无比宝贵的。

So there's that the white resources are invaluable in Gaia Project.

所以如果你拿到了这项进阶科技，我认为它会给你三个白色资源，并且让你额外拿一轮回合。

So if you get that advanced tech, it gives you three of the white resources, I believe, and that takes a turn.

盖亚计划里，我不太清楚当时是什么让我表现得这么好。

So guy project, I don't know what was working for me.

我优先做了某些行动。

I I prioritized some of the moves.

嘿，这些正是我们当时在争夺的关键点。

Hey, these are the ones we're kinda competing over.

我最好先拿这些。

I better grab those first.

然后我看那些高级科技。

And then I look at those advanced techs.

如果能让我多留一轮，同时还能获得一些资源，那就太好了。

If I can keep that can keep me in the round a little longer and and give me some resources in the meantime too, that's pretty great.

所以上一局所有事情都突然顺利起来了。

So everything just kinda clicked in the last guy.

我觉得这很反常。

I think very anomalous.

所以我觉得我们三个人中的任何一个都有可能赢。

So that's one I feel like any of the three of us could also win.

克里斯，你最近拿了几个，我们三个人都在玩。

Chris, you've taken a couple recently that all three of us have been playing.

《 Tapestry 》。

Tapestry.

我想提一下《Tapestry》。

I wanna bring up Tapestry.

和你们玩《Tapestry》的时候，我真的觉得很沮丧。

It's such a bummer when I play you guys in Tapestry.

我总是被碾压。

I get I just get destroyed.

我士气全无。

I get demoralized.

我知道你们特别喜欢这个游戏。

So I know you guys love that game.

我不喜欢，你知道的，不能和你们一起坐在桌边玩游戏。

And I I hate, you know, not being at the table playing a game with you guys.

所以每次你们想玩这个游戏时，我都会硬着头皮上。

So I'm gonna try and tough through it every time that you guys wanna play that game.

但这个游戏我已经接受我会被打得落花流水了。

But that's one where I've accepted that I'm gonna get my butt kicked.

我会观察你们是怎么做的。

I'm gonna watch what you guys do.

我一直在努力弄明白。

I I keep trying to figure it out.

我甚至会问，嘿，我现在该做什么？

I'll even ask, hey, what's I don't know what to do right now.

这个科学轨道是怎么运作的？

How does this science track work?

我为什么要这么做呢？

When why would I even do that?

这骰子肯定会坑我。

This dice is just gonna hose me over.

我什么都得不到。

I'm not gonna get anything good.

我想至少能打得有竞争力一点，别像桌面上一个弱AI那样不堪一击。

And I wanna try to be at least competitive better than, you know, a weak AI or something at the table with you guys.

是的，就是那个

Yeah, that one

只是亚当，那个弱小的。

just Adam, the weak Yeah.

我喜欢这个。

I love it.

当我感觉自己像个弱小的AI时，我特别讨厌。

I hate when I feel like the weak AI.

我很多时候都有这种感觉。

I feel I feel like that so many times.

但那个，我有点难过，它到底以什么著称呢？

But that one, I've gotten a little sad and it's just so what's it known?

达尔文之旅。

Darwin's Journey.

另一方面，达尔文之旅，你们大多数时候还是碾压我。

On the other hand, Darwin's Journey, you guys still crush me that one more often than not.

但至少我能从中获得一些快乐，能找到一些有趣的事情做。

But at least I get some joy out of that where I can find some fun things to do.

我可以用这些组合打出两到三回合，让整个屏幕都热闹起来，无论是在棋盘游戏竞技场还是现实生活中。

I can get a two or three turns with those combos that go, you know, the whole screen on board game arena or in real life.

我还没这么做。

I'm not doing it yet.

没这么做。

Not doing it.

我还在玩这个。

I'm still taking this thing.

所以偶尔能打出一次大回合真不错。

So it's nice to get those big turns every once.

所以即使我输得很惨。

So even when I get my butt kicked.

但《 Tapestry 》，你知道的，也许可以去太空做点什么，但我还没找到那种感觉，那种你们俩都有的对《 Tapestry 》的快乐。

But Tapestry, just, you know, maybe get into space and doing some stuff in space, but there's I haven't found that groove, that joy yet from Tapestry that I know you guys both have.

关于这一点，亚当，我有几个想法。

Well, I have a couple thoughts on that, Adam.

首先，你真的需要和我们一起来Board Game Arena玩几局，多玩几次。

First and foremost is that it sounds like you really just need to start some games with us in Board Game Arena and play a lot of it.

这才是正确的做法。

That that'd be the way to go.

关于《 Tapestry》，道克，我觉得

For Tapestry, doc, I think

是的。

Yeah.

上次我们三个人一起玩的时候，我可能赢了，我想保持胜利的势头。

The last time all three of us played, I might have gotten the victory, and I wanna retire on top.

就是这样。

There you go.

看到了吧？

See?