我们的精神游戏、圣杯游戏、最富天赋的游戏，以及更多——第9期邮件问答

这种情况已经发生过好几次了。

And that's happened several times.

《The Mind》也是同样的情况。

The same thing happened with the mind.

我有一阵子没玩那个了，但每次玩，尤其是跟休闲玩家一起玩的时候，他们都会对那个游戏的玩法感到惊讶。

I haven't pulled that out for a little while, but anytime I have played it, especially with casual gamers, they're shocked by how that game even works.

说实话，我自己到现在也还是有点惊讶。

To be honest, I still kind of am as well.

大家都特别喜欢，还想再试试别的。

People are loving it and they want to try something.

我就觉得，那挺好的。

I'm like, That's fine.

我也不需要留着。

I don't need it.

然后没过多久，我就觉得，我可能得再买一副《The Mind》了。

And then next thing I know, I should probably get another copy of the mine.

所以我已经做过很多次了。

So I've done that a bunch of times.

不过，我买来送人最多的，我觉得是《阿祖尔》。

The one I've actually purchased to give to people though the most, I think is Azul.

因为对于那种只是偶尔玩过几款游戏的人来说，这似乎是个很棒的游戏。

Just because it seems like a great game for somebody that's just kind of like, maybe we played a couple of games with it.

他们会觉得，嘿，玩游戏挺有意思的。

They're like, Hey, gaming is fun.

我喜欢这个。

I like this.

然后我就知道他们至少有兴趣。

And then so I at least know there's interest.

我不会给那些我不确定真的对桌游感兴趣的人买桌游。

I'm not buying board games for people that I don't know are actually interested in playing board games.

但对于那些我知道至少喜欢游戏，但还没深入桌游圈的人来说，《阿祖尔》似乎是个很棒的选择。

But for people that I know at least enjoy games, but aren't into really hobby games, Azul seems like a great game.

它很容易上手。

It's easy to learn.

他们可以和朋友、家人轻松地玩。

They can play it kind of casually with friends and family.

它几乎可以像派对游戏那样玩。

It can be almost in a party game type of style.

所以我觉得，这个游戏对很多人来说也挺受欢迎的。

And so that's been a, I think, a pretty good hit for people as well.

我们这期节目好像想到一块儿去了，因为Flip Seven和Azul也是我送人最多的游戏。

We we seem to be hitting on the same cylinders this episode because Flip seven and Azul are also my most gifted games.

不过我还想推荐第三个，可能有点冷门，但我觉得送出去效果很好，那就是《Sky Team》。

But I do have a third that I'm gonna throw out there, which is maybe a bit of an oddball, but I think has been quite a success for me, and that is Sky Team.

原因就是它是个小游戏，合作模式容易上手，而且我一般送游戏给的人，除了直系亲属那种可以送Flip Seven或Azul这种不太费脑子的，我发现很多人对合作游戏感兴趣，因为非玩家通常不太熟悉这种概念。

And the reason for that is it's a small game, easy to play co op, and the people that I generally find myself gifting games to other than just, you know, the straight family members who could use Flip seven or Azul or something that's not very thinky at all, I find people expressing an interest in cooperative games because it's a concept that nongamers generally are not that familiar with.

他们喜欢一起做点有趣活动的感觉，我送《Sky Team》的对象通常都是情侣。

And they like the idea of doing it's like a fun activity together, like it's usually couples that I've given Sky team to.

而且碰巧我家里有不少飞行员。

And it just happens I have a fair number of pilots in my family.

所以我把这个游戏送给了几个对合作游戏感兴趣的人，或者本身就是飞行员的人。

So so I've I've given that game a couple times to people who have expressed their, you know, sort of co op curiousness or who are pilots.

所以这真的是个很好的选择。

And so that's been a a really good choice.

而且我收到的反馈一直都不错。

And I've always gotten good feedback on it.

现在我还想提一个游戏，不是因为送过很多次，而是因为我觉得这个选择有点冒险，想听听大家的看法。我妹妹和她丈夫不是游戏玩家，但他们表现出了一些对游戏的兴趣。

Now I'm also gonna throw one other in there just because it's, not because it's one I've given multiple times, but because feel like I'm going out on a on a limb here, and I want the community's kind of good thoughts on this one that my sister and her husband who are not gamers, but they've expressed some curiosity about games.

比如，他们问过我几次推荐。

Like, I've had them ask for recommendations a couple of times.

实际上，他们就是我送Sky Team的那对夫妻之一。

In fact, they were one of the couples that I gave Sky Team to.

是他们带我接触了Ticket to Ride。

They're the ones who introduced me to Ticket to Ride.

因为我们见面的时候经常玩桌游，比如我去拜访他们的时候，还有夏天露营的时候，他们特别喜欢《车票之旅》，一直都在玩。

And so because we play board games a fair amount when I see them, when I come to visit and at camp in the summer and things like that, And they love Ticket to Ride, play it all the time.

我在考虑送他们《车票之旅：传承版》。

I was thinking of gifting them Ticket to Ride legacy.

我知道这有点越界了，你知道的，一个游戏迷给别人送传承游戏，但我觉得我可能真的会这么做。

And so I'm I know that stepping out that's stepping out of line a little bit, you know, the gamer guy getting people a legacy game, but I think I might just do it.

好的，Chris，我想说两件事。

Well, Chris, I do wanna so so two things.

第一，我真的不知道你玩过《天空小队》。

One, I I actually had no idea you'd ever played Sky Team.

你觉得《天空小队》怎么样？

What do you think about Sky Team?

你喜欢它吗？

Do you do you enjoy it?

我从来没听你提过。

I've never heard you mention it.

是的。

I do.

这是个有趣的游戏。

It's a fun game.

是个不错的小消遣。

It's a nice little diversion.

是个有趣的活动。

It's a fun activity.

我不是特别喜欢合作游戏，但你知道，我有一份。

I'm just not a big co op game person, but, you know, I've got a copy.

我玩过。

I've played it.

我和家人玩过。

I've played it with my family.

我也和朋友玩过，每次都玩得很开心。

I've played it with friends, and I've always had a nice time with it.

不过这个游戏我聊得不多，因为，你知道，作为合作游戏它不是我的菜。

But it it's one I haven't talked about a bunch because it's just, you know, it's not my cup of tea as a co op.

有意思。

Interesting.

我也挺喜欢这个游戏的。

I I really like it too.

我自己也有一份。

I I own a copy as well.

它是那种很少见的游戏，如果有两个玩家的话，它是我少数几个两人玩也很有趣的合作游戏之一。

It's one of those rare games where if I've got two players, it's one of my few two player only games that I think is a really fun experience even though it's co op.

所以这挺酷的。

So that's that's cool.

我都不知道你试过这个游戏。

Didn't even know you you tried it.

不过，克里斯，我还有一个想法，就是我送了我爸妈一份《Ticket to Ride Legacy》，因为他们超爱《Ticket to Ride》。

The other thought I had though, Chris, is that I did gift my parents Ticket to Ride Legacy because they love Ticket to Ride.

接下来我要提醒你，最好稍微犹豫一下。

And here's where I'm going to say you should probably hesitate a little bit.

《车票之旅：传奇版》在游戏过程中会变得复杂得多。

Ticket to Ride Legacy gets significantly heavier over the course of the game.

里面有很多新规则。

It's a lot of new rules.

需要学习的东西也很多。

It's a lot of learning.

我觉得要是没有我在一旁帮他们跑团，我爸妈根本玩不下去。

I think my parents never would have gotten through it if I wasn't there running the game for them.

所以除非他们真的准备好深入体验桌游，否则对于只喜欢《车票之旅》这类轻量级游戏的玩家来说，这游戏可能有点过于复杂了。

So unless they're really ready to get deep into gaming, I think it's probably a little bit over the top for someone that's just into Ticket to Ride and games of that weight.

因为里面要记很多新规则、学新规则，还要读大量剧情点，以及随着战役推进逐步解锁的新规则说明。

Because it's a lot of remembering new rules, learning new rules, a lot of reading story points, reading new rules that get revealed through the course of the campaign.

所以 personally（就我个人而言），我不会推荐给休闲玩家。

So I wouldn't do that for a casual gamer personally.

我觉得对于喜欢传承机制又喜欢车票之旅的桌游爱好者群体来说，这游戏很棒。

I think it's a great game for a hobby game group that's into Legacy and enjoys Ticket to Ride.

有意思。

Interesting.

好的，谢谢你的建议。

Well, thanks for the tip.

听了你说的，我肯定会再好好考虑一下。

I definitely will give that a second thought now based on what you said.

好的。

Alright.

下一个问题是山姆·奥本海姆提的。

Next question was from Sam Oppenheim.

哪款游戏被重制得不好，而绝版的原始版本却好得多？

What game was reimplemented wrong and the out of print original is just epically better?

他提到了《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》和《书目》这两个例子，我也比较同意。

And they mentioned Battlestar Galactica and Biblios as their two thoughts on that, which I would kind of agree with.

其实我并不讨厌BSG的重制版，但那个主题确实太契合了。

I mean, I don't hate the reimplementation of BSG, but it did work so well with that theme.

而且虽然Biblios的主题本身没什么意思，但新版的美术和主题让我根本不想去玩。

And although Biblios as a theme isn't that interesting, the new version, just the artwork and the theme of that, makes me not want to play it.

所以我觉得Biblios的原版更好。

So I think Biblios is a better version there.

你们觉得呢？

What about you guys?

有没有哪些重制版让你们觉得是失败的？

Any reimplementations that you think failed?

对，这个问题我没什么好答案。

Yeah, I didn't have a good answer for this one.

我本来就想说《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》被重制成克苏鲁主题的那个。

I was just going to echo the Battlestar Galactica reimplemented with a Cthulhu theme on that one.

叫《Fathom》。

It's called Fathom.

是叫这个名字吗？

Is that what it is?

嗯，叫《深不可测》。

Well, unfathomable.

我连这个名字都说不利索。

I can't even say it.

《深不可测》。

Unfathomable.

我还是没说

I still didn't say

对。

it right.

《深不可测》。

Unfathomable.

你懂我的意思。

You know what I'm saying.

这个有点难。

That's a tricky one.

所以我还没试过新的那个。

So I haven't tried the new one.

我玩过老的《太空堡垒卡拉狄加》，如果你喜欢那种四到五个小时的隐藏角色游戏，那个玩起来还挺不错的。

I have played the old Battlestar Galacta and that does work pretty well if you're into a four to five hour long hidden role game.

对，这个我真没什么好答案。

Yeah, don't have a good answer for this one.

抱歉，山姆。

Sorry, Sam.

你们呢？

What about you guys?

我第一个想到的是《书目》之后，因为我完全同意那个，然后《长老面纱的居所》被重制成了《仙女座边缘》。

The first thing that came to mind after Biblios, because I 100 agree with that, and that is Dwellings of Elder Veil was reimplemented as Andromeda's Edge.

我觉得原因是因为原来的出版商倒闭了，或者被收购了之类的。

And I think the reason for this is because the original publisher went out of business or got acquired or something like that.

所以设计师当时正在做一个扩展。

And so the designer was working on an expansion.

这是我根据以前读到的一些东西做的猜测，但我认为他当时正在为《Dwellings》做一个扩展。

This is my kind of assumption and guess based on some things I'd read in the past, but I think he was working on an expansion for Dwellings.

然后它可能还在印刷中。

And then it kind of maybe it's still in print.

我觉得它甚至可能已经不再印刷了，但基本上失去了出版商的支持。

I don't think it's even still in print, but basically lost publisher support.

所以它被重新设计成了《Andromeda's Edge》，这是一个科幻主题版本，原本是奇幻主题的工人放置冲突游戏。

And so it was reimplemented as Andromeda's Edge, which is a sci fi themed version of this fantasy worker placement conflict game.

我认为这是个错误，唯一的原因是我还没玩过《Andromeda's Edge》，但我看过它的玩法。

And the only reason why I think this was a mistake, because I haven't played Andromeda's Edge yet, and I have seen how it's played.

在很多方面看起来非常相似。

It seems very similar in a lot of ways.

但我认为这是个错误的唯一原因是，《Dwellings of Eldervale》拥有我见过的任何游戏中最惊艳的艺术和制作。

But the only reason I think it's a mistake is that Dwellings of Eldervale had some of the most amazing artwork and production of any game I've ever seen.

而《仙女座边缘》在这方面在我看来就逊色多了。

And Andromeda's Edge just falls flat from my perspective on that front.

比如，卡牌和阵营上都没有插画。

Like, there's no art on the cards or factions.

全都是文字。

It's all just text.

感觉抽象了很多。

It just feels much more abstract.

所以我觉得他们在这方面真的没做好。

And so I just feel like they really missed the mark there.

科幻主题本身没问题，但他们得配上那种出色的风格。

The theme is fine if it's sci fi, but they had to put that great flavor on it.

还有插画和整体风格。

Artwork and the style with it.

我觉得《精灵居所》很棒，而《仙女座边缘》就有点差强人意了。

And I think Dwellings was great, and Drowned in Edge kind of missed.

所以那是我唯一能想到的，有点触及这个问题的答案。

So that was the only thing I could think of that kinda hit this, question.

我还记得你当初对《长老面纱之居》特别兴奋，现在看到那款游戏没让你满意，我挺难过的，因为我知道你之前对它期望有多高。

I still remember back when you were so excited about Dwellings of Elder Veil, and I'm I'm it makes me so sad that that one didn't pan out for you because I know how high you were on that game before it came in.

所以，我的答案其实是双重的，因为无论是前作，还是后续的重新设计版本，在我看来都是彻底的失败。

So, anyway, my answer is actually, I'm gonna give you double answer because both the predecessor and the what's the one that comes after the follow-up, the reimplementation of this game were epic fails in my humble opinion.

这不算作弊，但有点偏离，因为这两款并不完全是同一款游戏的直接重制。

Now this is a not a cheat, but it's a little bit of a deviation because these aren't exactly straight reimplementations of one's game.

它们只是同一款游戏的变体。

These are variations on one game.

但这款游戏本身是《盖亚计划》。

But the game itself is Gaia Project.

《神秘大地》，无聊。

Terra Mystica, boring.

《创新时代》，无聊又过于复杂。

Age of Innovation, boring and overly complicated.

其实我这么说有点故意挑事儿。

Actually, I'm I'm I'm being kind of provocative there.

倒也不是真的无聊。

It's not really boring.

另外那两个也不是无聊。

Neither of those the other two are boring.

我就是不太喜欢它们。

I just don't like them that much.

我就是觉得《Age of Innovation》和《Terra Mystica》跟《Gaia Project》一比都显得有点逊色，而《Gaia Project》本身特别扎实，在我看来是个经久不衰的好游戏。

I just age of innovation and Terra Mystica were both kind of pale comparisons to Gaia Project, which is just such a a great solid, in in my view, pretty evergreen game.

另外那两个就是还行吧，但就是没有《Gaia Project》做得那么好。

And the other two are just like, that's fine, but they just don't do it as well as Gaia Project did.

所以就是这样。

And so there you go.

不管是前作《Terra Mystica》还是后续的《Age of Innovation》，跟《Gaia Project》一比都差远了。

Both the predecessor, Terra Mystica, and the successor, Age of Innovation, both fail in comparison to Gaia Project.

克里斯，你找到那个“后继者”的词，干得不错。

Well, Chris, nice job finding the successor word there.

你最后想出来了。

You came up with it at the end.

对于盖亚计划和它的前作、续作，我完全同意你的看法。

I that's a hard agree for me with Gaia Project and its predecessor and successor.

所以，想法很不错。

So nice, nice thoughts there.

这让我想到一个很快就要重制的游戏。

This reminds me of a game that's getting a reimplementation soon.

《禁忌之星》要出了。

Forbidden stars is coming out.

我觉得他们又要走克苏鲁路线了，这已经让人失望了。

I think they're going the way of Cthulhu again, which is already disappointing.

也许我记错了，但我很确定《禁忌之星》会以克苏鲁重制版的形式推出。

Maybe I have that wrong, but I'm pretty sure Forbidden Stars is coming out with a Cthulhu reimplementation.

我会继续关注它的。

I'm gonna keep my eye on it.

不过我已经有点担心了。

I'm a little worried though already.

其实我不介意克苏鲁主题，而且我一直想试试《禁忌星辰》。

Well, I don't mind the Cthulhu theme, and I have been wanting to try Forbidden Stars.

希望这次重制能好玩。

So hopefully it's a fun reimplementation.

等它出了，我很乐意去试试。

I'm happy to try it when it does.

我想再聊聊《盖亚计划》。

I wanna go back to Gaia Project for a second.

你们都知道，这算是我最喜欢的游戏了。

Now you guys know this is, like, my favorite game.

我觉得它是我今年最喜欢的三个游戏之一。

One of my I think it was my top three this year.

可能是我排名第三的游戏。

Maybe my number three game.

可能排第二。

Maybe number two.

它是我有史以来最喜欢的游戏之一。

It's one of my favorite games of all time.

但我甚至想说，盖亚计划作为重制版，唯一失败的地方就是美术。

But I would even say that Gaia Project itself as a reimplementation failed only because of the artwork.

仅仅是因为，他们给它加了个很棒的主题。

Only because of, like, they put a great theme on it.

我觉得它比神秘大地更好玩。

It's a better game, I think, than Terra Mystica.

我依然很喜欢神秘大地。

I still love Terra Mystica.

我甚至不介意那个主题。

I don't even mind the theme.

我一点都不介意。

I don't mind anything about it.

但我觉得，像这么宏大、这么棒的游戏，制作本可以更好。

But I just think that with such an epic, awesome game, it could have been produced better.

所以我们真正需要的是《盖亚计划》的重制版，但要有新的制作和新的美术。

So what we really need is a reimplementation of Gaia Project, but with new production, new artwork on it.

那会非常棒。

That'd be amazing.

然后还有《创新纪元》，我非常喜欢，它和《盖亚计划》很接近。

And then Age of Innovation, which I totally love, it's very close to me for Gaia Project.

我觉得他们对《神秘大地》就是这么做的。

And I think they did exactly that to Terra Mystica.

他们提升了制作质量，还加入了一些机制，让游戏变得更有趣。

They put a better production, added some mechanisms to it that made it even more fun.

所以，确实有一个史诗系列，但还有一些不足之处，将来有机会可以解决。

So yes, there's an epic series there that there's still some misses that could be solved for at some point.

嗯，如果伊恩·奥图尔或宽猜·莫里亚在听的话，咱们赶紧把盖亚计划的下一版做出来吧。

Well, if Ian O'Toole or Kwanchai Moria are listening, let's get on top of, that next implementation of Gaia Project.

需要他们的时候，觉醒领域在哪儿呢？

Where's Awakened Realms when you need them?

我对觉醒领域什么都不信任。

I don't trust Awakened Realms with anything.

我玩过他们的游戏。

I've I've played their games.

好了，下一个问题来自“小气精灵”，他们问：你玩桌游时最开心的时刻是什么？

Alright, next question was from the Meanie Genie, and they said, What is a favorite happy moment you have from board gaming?

我第一个想到的是……

First one that comes to mind.

嗯，这听起来有点老套，而且跟我们后面可能会聊到的一个问题有关。

Well, this is going to sound cheesy and it touches on a question that we might get to later on.

但是遇到蒂姆，让我更深入地接触了桌游。

But meeting Tim, that led me to getting more into board games.

这让我认识了克里斯。

It led me to meeting Chris.

这让我做了这个播客，也让我玩了很多原本不会玩的桌游。

It led me to making this podcast and playing a lot more board games than I otherwise would have done.

所以这肯定算一个。

So that's gotta be up there.

这肯定是排第一的。

That's gotta be the number one.

然后因为这样，我们在疫情期间搞了那些游戏之夜。我记得有一次，克里斯在搬走之前——那对我来说真是难过的一天——

And then as a result of that, we were playing doing these game nights during COVID and I remember Chris one time before he moved away, which was which was a sad day in my life.

他带了一些东西过来。疫情前我们搞过几次主题饮品之夜，克里斯在疫情期间也继续搞了一阵子。

He brought over we were doing like themed drinks for a couple of the game nights before COVID and Chris kept it going a little bit during COVID.

我记得我们玩的是，不知道是不是《沙丘：帝国》还是什么。

He I think we played, I don't know if it was Dune Imperium or something.

他专门给我送到家里一种特调饮品，或者是他特意挑的一款啤酒。

He made a delivery to my house of a special drink that he had made or a special beer he had picked up.

其中一种是香料啤酒之类的。

One of them was like a spice beer or something like that.

我觉得他调了一种饮料，装在梅森罐里，特别好喝。

And I think he made a a drink he had concocted and it was in like a mason jar or something just delicious.

那真是一个特别的时刻，特别的日子。

And it was just a special event, special time.

克里斯真的费心了，是的。

Chris made the effort Yeah.

在疫情最艰难的时候，他特意过来送这个，让我感觉特别不一样。

To come over, drop this off during the bleak days of COVID and make things a little extra special for me.

所以那些是我玩桌游最美好的时刻。

So those are my favorite moments from board gaming.

还有很多其他的，但那些是最棒的两个。

There's a bunch of others, but those are some of the top two.

真是美好的回忆，亚当。

What a great memory, Adam.

谢谢你提醒我这个。

And thank you for reminding me about that.

我也记得，克里斯发短信说，嘿，去检查一下你的前门。

I do remember it as well, Chris texted and said, Hey, go check your front door.

然后门口有两个装满他调制的鸡尾酒的梅森罐。

And there's two Mason jars full of some cocktail that he'd made.

太棒了。

Amazing.

我还记得，你让我想起了一个不愉快的回忆，那天晚上我们在Tabletop Simulator上一起玩的时候，我不小心打翻了我的梅森罐，然后

I also remember you unfortunately brought back the memory that that night while we're playing together on Tabletop Simulator that I knocked over my Mason jar and

洒了一半

spilled half

的仙人掌酒在我的键盘上，全没了。

of the cacti all over my keyboard and lost it.

但不管怎样，克里斯，你真是太棒了。

But still, that was so awesome of you, Chris.

在疫情初期，我们都想方设法让自己撑住，而你的那个举动真的让人特别暖心。

We were all trying to do things to just keep it together in those early days of COVID, and that gesture was such an awesome, awesome hit.

亚当，至于我们是怎么认识的，是的，我想我们一会儿就会聊到，这样大家能多了解一些。

And Adam, as far as us meeting, yeah, I think we'll be getting to that in a little bit here so people get to hear a little bit more about that.

好的。

Okay.

对我来说，有太多美好的回忆了，尤其是我们一起参加漫展的时候。

So many fun memories for me, especially when we've gotten to do cons together.

我和当地的朋友们有很棒的游戏之夜。

I have amazing game nights with my local friends.

我们总是笑个不停。

We have so many laughs all the time.

但碰巧这个周末发生了一件特别棒的事，我一看到“小气精灵”的这个问题就笑了。

But it just happened that there was a pretty fantastic moment this weekend that came up that made me laugh as soon as I read this question from the Meanie Genie.

那就是我们全家聚在一起，去了塞多纳的房子，一起度周末，还玩了“主观”这个游戏。

And that is that my family was all together and we went up to our place in Sedona and we're spending the weekend together and we played subjective.

我们最近在派对游戏那期节目里聊过《主观》这个游戏，但当时真的特别搞笑。

And we talked about subjective on our party game episode recently, but it was hilarious.

最搞笑的部分，可能就是我们当时心情特别好或者什么的，但有人猜的答案竟然是《狮子王》。

The funniest part, maybe just the mood we were in or whatever, but the answer somebody was trying to guess was the Lion King.

我妈妈选的类别是歌曲。

The category my mom picked was song.

如果你们知道是《狮子王》，听到《狮子王》你们会想到哪首歌？

If you guys knew that it was the Lion King, what song would you name if you heard the Lion King?

《今夜感觉我的爱》？

Can you feel the love tonight?

或者《哈库纳玛塔塔》。

Or Akuna Matata.

好。

Okay.

我本来想说的是，天哪，那首歌叫什么名字来着？

I was going to go with Oh God, what's the name of it now?

就是那个，他唱的那个《Circle of Life》。

One where he's Circle Circle of Life.

我本来想说《Circle of Life》，对吧？

I was going go with Circle of Life, right?

那正是

That's what

我想的。

I thought.

不过话说回来，我妈当时跟你的想法一样，克里斯，只不过她写的不是《Hakuna Matata》，而是《Mamuna Makata》。

But anyway, so my mom was on the wavelength with you, Chris, except instead of writing Hakuna Matata, she wrote Mamuna Makata.

她完全忘了那首歌，但我们因为这个傻乎乎的答案笑得不行。

She totally forgot about it, but we were cracking up about how silly the answer was with it.

那天晚上玩得特别开心。

Had a super fun night that night.

那是第一个浮现在我脑海里的。

That was the first thing that came to mind.

跟你们说，桌游真的给我创造了好多快乐的回忆。

I got to tell you guys that board games have created so many fun memories for me.

还有一次特别难忘的，就是第一次去我们当地的漫展。

Another one that hit was the first time we did our local con.

那会儿我们已经快两年没见面了，之前只在Tabletop Simulator上一起玩过。

And this was after we'd barely seen each other for two years, had only played on Tabletop Simulator.

然后我们在棕榈泉第一次线下聚会，大家坐在游戏桌旁。

And we got together in Palm Springs for the first time, we're sitting at the game table.

有人开了个玩笑，说如果这真的是《桌面模拟》游戏的话，我们三个肯定会立刻把手盖在桌面上，把那些卡牌之类的道具都遮起来，因为在那款游戏里大家就是这么做的。

And somebody makes a joke about if this was actually Tabletop Simulator, and you see all three of us immediately put our hands over the table and start covering over the elements, the card, because that's what happens on Tabletop Simulator.

只要有人想看看某张牌，其他人就会凑过去，用手掌或者手背挡着看。

As soon as somebody wants to look at a card, everybody is looking over it with their little on there.

这个梗真的把我逗乐了，所以我一直记到现在。

That that cracked me up so much, so it stuck with me.

类似的梗还有很多，不过光聊这一个我都能聊上一整晚。

So many others, but I could spend all night on that.

也许以后可以专门做一期节目。

Maybe that's an episode at some point.

桌游中最有趣的五个时刻。

Top five fun moments in board games.

天哪。

Oh, man.

那些回答都很棒，都很棒。

Those those are all great those are all great answers.

我很喜欢。

I love those.

我的回忆要带你回到2024年5月，在我们的Big Bear大会上。

Mine brings you back to May 2024 in our Big Bear Con.

我记得那应该是周六晚上，而且时间已经很晚了。

It was, I believe, Saturday night, and there it is getting pretty late in the evening.

然后Tim选了马拉喀什，那真是一款非常有趣的游戏。

And Tim makes his pick Marrakesh, which was just an absolutely delightful game.

那时候我们都喝了几杯，心情特别好。

We were all a few drinks in and feeling really happy right about then.

然后亚当说，我们放点音乐怎么样？

And Adam goes, why don't we get some music?

于是我们就放了音乐。

And so we got on some music.

其实我们听的是摩洛哥流行音乐，一边玩马拉喀什，一边在大熊湖围着桌子玩得很开心，特别尽兴。

It was it was actually, Moroccan pop music that we were listening to as we're playing Marrakesh and having a great time in Big Bear sitting around our table playing this game, have having an awesome time.

而且后来有一首歌我一直留在播放列表里，就是《Rock the Kasbah》的翻唱版，拉希德·塔哈唱的。

And actually one song that I added to my playlist after this that, has stayed with me forever is Rock El Kasbah by the a remake of Rock the Kasbah by Rashid Taha.

那个版本真的很好听。

So they, a great version of that song.

这个故事最奇怪的地方是，紧接着我们就遇到了在游戏大会周末最离奇的事情之一——我们正在玩泛美航空的时候，蒂姆突然把游戏收起来了。

Now the weird part of this story is that immediately after this, we had one of our strangest incidents at a, at a game weekend at a con when we we were in the middle of a game of Pan Am and Tim put the game away.

没错。

That's right.

在

In the

游戏

middle of

进行到一半的时候。

a game.

所以那既是一个美好的回忆，也是一个非常奇怪的回忆。

So that was a great memory and a very weird memory.

那太有趣了。

That's so fun.

我们大概还有五分钟就玩完泛美了，结果蒂姆决定把游戏收起来。

We were like, probably five minutes away from being done with Pan Am and Tim decides to pack it up.

所以我们还在说，克里斯称之为

So we're still Chris calling it

一个奇怪的

a weird

记忆，痛苦的，痛苦的记忆。

memory, painful, painful memory.

那次我也赢了。

I had that victory too.

我都不想解释自己了。

I'm not even going to explain myself.

好吧。

Okay.

行。

All right.

我们继续吧。

Let's move on.

道奇说，你们三个会在十一月回到BGG大会吗？

Deep the Dodger said, Will the three of you return to BGG Con in November?

你们三个还会一起参加公开大会吗？

Will the three of you ever return to a public con together?

还是说，只去BGHT的展会，否则免谈？

Or is it BGHT cons or bust?

两件事。

Two things.

第一，我注意到DoopTheDodger今天刚在我们的Discord上发帖，说他正在考虑第一次参加BGG Con，而且打算一个人去。

One, I happen to notice that DoopTheDodger just posted on our Discord today saying he was considering going to BGG Con for the first time and soloing it.

我想这个问题大概就是这么来的。

I'm sure that's where this question comes from.

不过第二件事，我觉得这次我们要公开讨论一下，因为我想知道明年你们会不会跟我一起去参加任何漫展。

But second thing, I think this is a session here that we're gonna uncover in public because I wanna know whether you guys are gonna be coming to any cons with me next year.

我真的很想参加其中几个。

I would really like to attend a couple.

所以你们怎么想的？

So what are your thoughts?

我们还会不会一起去参加别的漫展？

Are we gonna get out to another con together?

如果是的话，那我们就开始计划吧。

If so, let's get the planning started.

然后我的第二个跟进问题是，我有点好奇，如果你再去参加一个展会，你会觉得更舒服或者更兴奋去参加BGG Con，因为你已经去过那里，比较熟悉，知道会是什么样的体验，还是你更愿意去一个全新的展会，完全不同的体验，不同的地方？

And my second follow-up on that, I was kind of curious, if you were to do a con again, would you feel more comfortable or excited about doing BGG Con where you've already been, you kind of know it, you know what to experience is going to be, or would you prefer to do one that is completely fresh, something that's a totally different experience, different location?

这些都是很好的问题。

These are all great questions.

如果我有时间，而且我觉得我确实有决心去参加另一个展会，尤其是如果你们也在的话。

If I have the time, and I think I do have the will to make it out to another Con, especially if you guys are there.

在达拉斯那次真的很好玩。

That was pretty fun in Dallas.

所以我一直关注的一个展会，听说很好玩的，是爱尔兰的那个。

So one I've had my eye on, I've heard is very fun is the one in Ireland.

我记得好像叫AIRECon，就是A-I-R-E。

I think it's called the AIRECon, the a I r e.

我不知道是在都柏林还是在

I don't know if it's in Dublin or in

我一直以为那是Aircon。

the I always thought that was Aircon.

Aircon。

Aircon.

Aircon。

Aircon.

那个听起来很棒。

That one sounds great to me.

我听说那是一个很注重玩游戏的展会，而且规模不大。

I heard it's a very, you know, play the games type of con and not too big.

而且爱尔兰很美。

And Ireland's beautiful.

所以那是我很想尝试的一个。

So that's one I'd love to try out.

所以是的，我觉得如果有一天能组织一个BGHT听众聚会，那会很有趣。

So yeah, I think a BGHT listener con would be fun at some point if we could organize that somehow.

不过，是的，我有点坐不住了，感觉很快可能又有机会去另一个展会。

But I yeah, I'm feeling a little bit antsy feeling like getting to another con might be in the works sometime pretty soon for me.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的，克里斯，我希望你先回答，然后我再回答这个问题。

Well, Chris, I want you to jump in and answer first before I answer on this one.

问题就在这里。

So here's the problem.

我很乐意去做。

I'm happy to do it.

我觉得挺有意思的，但日程实在太满了。

I thought it was fun, but the schedule is so busy.

即使退休了，日程还是忙得不可思议，尤其是家里有个14岁、马上15岁的高中生，各种活动特别多。

Even in retirement, it's crazy how busy the schedule is, especially having a a 14 year old, soon to be a 15 year old in high school with all the activities that entails.

对我来说，要抽出时间参加更多旅行真的很难。

It is very difficult for me to get away for more trips than I already do.

所以这意味着，如果我们真的要去的话，很可能得安排在咱们常规的展会轮换里。

So what that means is it's probably pretty likely that if we were to do one, it would have to be on our normal con rotation.

除非我们能找到一个时间，正好有个展会在一个合适的时间点，让我能在常规轮换之外参加。

Unless we could find a time where there was one that fell just into a nice little sweet spot where I was able to make it outside of our normal rotation.

所以我们就得决定，是否愿意放弃一个我们常去的BGHG展会，去参加一个更特别的展会，这个我是可以接受的。

And so we would just have to decide if we're willing to forego one of our regular BGHG cons for one of the more exotic ones, which I which I'm I'm okay to do.

距离BGG展会已经过去挺长时间了。

It's been long enough now since BGG con.

所以我很乐意出去再参加一个。

So I'm happy to go out and, and do another one.

BGG展会真的很有意思。

BGG Con was a lot of fun.

特别是如果我们去一个特别特别的地方，就像亚当说的那样，听起来会非常棒。

And especially if we did something exotic really exotic like what Adam was talking about, that sounds like it could be a real blast.

所以，你知道，那些特别的地方对我来说更难，因为我觉得我全家都会想去爱尔兰。

So, you know, the really exotic makes that I think even harder for me because then I feel like my whole family would like to go to Ireland.

但如果我要和家人一起去爱尔兰，我不会把四五天时间花在游戏展上。

But if I'm going to be in Ireland with my family, I'm not going to spend it four days, five days at a gaming convention.

所以，虽然那听起来很刺激、很吸引人，但我觉得对我来说不太可行。

So even though that's exciting and sexy, I think that's less likely to be successful for me.

另一方面，我完全理解你们说的。

On the other hand, I totally get what you guys are saying.

比如，如果我们不得不牺牲一个BGHG展会，就像我们去BGG Con那一年一样，那也挺遗憾的，因为那些时光太特别了。

Like if we have to sacrifice one of our BGH Tcons, which we did the year we went to BGG Con, that's kind of sad too, because they're such special times.

那些时光真的超级开心。

They're such amazing fun times.

所以，比起牺牲展会，我更倾向于自己挤出周末时间，多安排一两个周末。

So I am less interested in doing that than trying to fit one or two more weekends into my schedule personally.

但至少我在这里，而且大家有兴趣。

But at least I'm here and there's an appetite.

所以我会尽量和你们合作。

So I'm going to try to work with you guys.

我们会看看接下来这一年有哪些展会，然后看看能不能安排上。

We'll take a look at some of the cons that are coming up in this next year and we'll see if we can make it work.

所以，Deepa Dodger，就是这样。

So there you go, Deepa Dodger.

听起来我们还没做出任何承诺。

It sounds like we've got no commitment.

今年十一月我们肯定不会去BGG Con了。

We're definitely not going to be a BGG Con in November this year.

但十一月我们还是会办BGHT Con，我可没打算放弃这个。

And we are doing a BGHT Con in November, I'm not giving up on that.

不过明年嘛，到时候再看情况。

But maybe next year, we'll see how it goes.

所以，等我们确定任何计划，会尽快告诉大家。

So we'll keep you all updated as we firm up any plans on that coming up soon.

对。

Right.

Matt Trimble 问，通过玩桌游，你在个人成长方面有什么变化？

Matt Trimble said, How have you grown as a person through playing board games?

比如说，可能因为小时候在体育运动方面有过不好的经历，我通常对竞争有些抵触。

For example, probably due to bad experience in sports as a kid, I usually have an aversion to competition.

让我感到意外又开心的是，我真的学会了享受桌游中的竞争，即使是在 BGA 上或本地游戏之夜和陌生人一起玩。

I've been surprised and happy that I've really learned to enjoy the competitive side of board gaming, even with strangers on BGA or at my local game night.

对，这是个好问题。

Yeah, that's a good question.

而且，就像 Matt 在他的问题里提到的那个主题，简单来说就是学会愉快地接受失败。

And to echo that theme that Matt asserted in his, in his question there, learning to lose with pleasure is kind of the short way to say it.

换句话说，无论输赢，我仍然能从游戏本身和桌边的人那里感受到竞争的刺激。

In other words, I still get a thrill from the competition of the game and the people around the table, whether or not I win.

你必须慢慢培养这种心态，因为在四人游戏中，即使你觉得自己技术高超、头脑聪明，牌运或者其他因素也可能让你大部分时间都在输。

And you have to sort of develop this because with a four player game, you know, even if you think you're super skilled and smart, even the luck of the cards or whatever might make it, so you're gonna lose majority of the time.

所以，玩游戏的本身，努力解决那个谜题，享受桌边人的陪伴，这些是我每次线下聚在一起玩桌游时都非常珍惜的。

So playing the game itself, trying to do, you know, solve that puzzle and enjoying the people around the table is just something I cherish every time I get together in person for a board game.

所以我想好好利用这种体验，让它不仅对我自己，也对桌上的其他人都有最大的价值。

So trying to capitalize on that experience, make it the most for not only myself, but the other people at the table.

我觉得那真的是一段很开心的时光，值得去好好提升那种体验。

I think that's just a really fun time to try to enhance that experience.

嗯，我觉得最近从玩桌游中学到的最重要的一点是，它让我变得谦逊了。

Well, would say the most recent thing that I feel like I've learned from playing board games is that it's humbled me in a way.

我的意思是，我觉得生活里很多事情对我来说都挺容易的。

And what I mean by that is I guess like things have always come pretty easily in life.

我觉得自己很幸运，在这方面一直都很顺。

I feel lucky, you know, I've been really fortunate in that front.

上学一直挺轻松，大学、工作、升职这些也都挺顺利的。

School was always fairly easy in college and jobs and promotions and all of that stuff.

我以前玩《万智牌》挺厉害的，跟朋友和家人玩游戏时，我觉得我的胜率也挺高的。

And I used to be a great The Gathering player, and I used to be, I think, a pretty good winning rate with games with my friends and my family and stuff like that.

但是，我最常一起玩的那个游戏小组，就是周四晚上那个，另外两个人，我的战绩简直惨不忍睹。

And yet the gaming group that I play with most frequently, my Thursday night group, it's two other guys, and my record is just abysmal.

这让我意识到，也许我以前只是小池塘里的大鱼。

And it's just opened my eyes to the fact that maybe I was a big fish in a small pond.

我也不确定。

I don't know.

我花了一段时间才接受自己老是输这个事实，现在我已经无所谓了。

It took me a little while to get over the fact that I just have a consistent losing rate there, and I'm okay with it.

就觉得，这没什么大不了的。

And it's like, that's okay.

甚至可以说是好事。

It's almost good.

跟比自己厉害的人玩，反而挺有意思的。

It's almost fun to be playing against people that are more skilled.

这应该就是实际情况吧。

It must be the situation right.

所以，跟这些人玩反而更有趣，不像以前跟某些朋友或家人玩的时候，感觉太简单了，几乎没什么挑战性。

And so it's almost fun to be playing against that versus with some groups or, you know, family members that I played with in the past where it felt like it was almost too easy, where it almost wasn't a challenge.

现在感觉每一次我能赢下来，都是巨大的成功。

And now it feels like every win that I do manage to pull off is a huge success.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

我想我会说，这让我学会了谦逊，但也让我对生活有了不同的看法，从一辈子都特别幸运，到现在在某个事情上一直输。

I guess I would say that's humility that I got out of it, but also just a different outlook on life from a place of extreme luck over the rest of my life to be losing at something consistently.

也许这对我有好处。

Maybe it's good for me.

桌游带给我的，我觉得最积极的东西，是让我对陌生人敞开了心扉，这是我以前没有的。

The thing that board games have brought to me that have been, I think the most positive is an openness to strangers that I didn't have before.

我是一个非常内向的人。

I'm a very deeply introverted person.

我有点社交焦虑，但桌游给了我一个渠道，让我能认识新朋友，不认识的人，不是亲密朋友的人，一起做点开心的事，而且如果我不认识对方，我也不用非得坐下来跟人家深入聊天。

I have some social anxiety and yet board games have given me this conduit to meet people that are new to me, that I don't know, that I'm not close friends with and do something that's both enjoyable and doesn't require me to sit down and have like an in-depth conversation with somebody sitting at the table if I don't know them.

这种事在我生活中发生的次数多得惊人。

And this has happened a surprising number of times in my life.

我本来不是那种会主动跟不太熟的人一起参加活动的人。

Like I'm not somebody who would normally have ever volunteered to go do an activity with people that I didn't really know.

但自从做了播客之后，这也帮了我不少。在这个小圈子里，我至少算是个有点名气的人，所以会被邀请去跟节目的朋友和听众一起玩游戏。

And yet since doing the podcast, which has also helped, it's helped having the podcast where I've become, you know, at least a little bit, you know, in this, our small community, a known entity, been invited to games, with friends of the show and listeners.

我去的时候一个人都不认识，但每次都玩得很开心。

And I've gone to them not knowing a soul and having a really great time.

不久前，我参加了一个本地的广播节目，跟那些人在线下见了面，之后还一起玩了游戏。

I was not too long ago on a local radio show here, where I met the folks in person and then played a game with them afterwards.

那真是太棒了。

That was terrific.

你可能听我提过这件事。

You probably heard me mention it before.

就是波特兰的Kabu电台的《Winners Bias》桌游广播节目。

That was the Winners Bias, Board Game Radio Show on Kabu in Portland.

就在几周前，我跟听众汤姆和他妻子一起玩了《Kanban EV》，玩得非常开心。

Just a couple weeks ago, I played a game with, listener Tom and his wife and had a had a great time playing Kanban EV with them.

他们听说我很难找到人玩《Kanban EV》，就主动联系我说，嘿，我们有这个游戏，也喜欢玩，你想不想一起玩。

They had heard that I had difficulty getting Kanban EV played and and reached out and said, hey, we got it and we like it if you wanna play.

所以这种事情给我的生活带来了以前没有的维度，现在我非常感激能拥有这些。

So that kind of thing has brought a dimension to my life that I did not have before and now I am incredibly grateful to have.

所以，谢谢桌游让我变成了一个稍微更善于社交的人。

So thank you Board Games for making me a slightly more social person.

我觉得桌游对内向的人来说是一个非常棒的社交爱好，因为你可以坐在那里和别人一起玩，进行社交，而不必强迫自己去建立联系，找话题聊之类的。

I think board games is such a fantastic social hobby for introverts because it's like you can sit there and hang out with people and be social with people without having to force that connection and find things to talk about and things like that.

所以我超爱桌游。

So I love it.

我觉得太棒了。

I think fantastic.

而且对外向的人来说也超级有趣。

And also super fun for extroverts as well.

这真的是最适合所有人的爱好了。

It's just the best hobby for everybody.

我同意，蒂姆。

I agree, Tim.

对于内向的人来说，很多时候他们聪明又风趣，但都藏在脑子里，而桌游给了他们机会，能冒出一些俏皮话或者妙语，让你看到他们性格的闪光点。

For the introverts out there, a lot of times these introverts are clever and witty and they keep it all in their brain, but the board games gives them that little opportunity for these quick little quips or one liars that give you these little flashes and chances to see their personality.

而且，你知道，当他们从桌上得到回应，一阵大笑或者咯咯笑，这会让他们稍微放开一点。

And that, you know, when they get that response from the table, a big giggle or big laugh that lets them come out of their shell a little bit.

看到这一幕真的很有趣。

And it's so fun to see that happen.

我见过几次这种情况，我很喜欢看到人们开始在不熟悉的人面前放开自己。

I've seen that happen a few times and I love it when people start, know, coming out of their shells around people they haven't met before.

那总是很棒的时光。

It's always a fantastic time.

好吧，杰森说，如果你只能玩一个游戏。

Alright, Jason said, if you can only play okay.

嗯，其实我稍微改了一下他的问题。

Well, I actually edited his question a little bit.

他当时列了五个游戏，但这都能单独做一期节目了。

So he asked for five games here, but that could be a whole episode.

所以我稍微精简了一下。

So I I slimmed it down a little bit.

Jason问的是：如果你余生只能玩两款桌游，你会选哪两款？为什么？

Jason said, if you could only play two games the rest of your life, which ones would you select and why?

我觉得这个问题特别有意思，能看出大家的思考过程，也能了解他们选择背后的原因。

I think this is a fun exercise for so many reasons, and I love the thought process for which ones you'd choose and the reason behind them.

大概一年前，或者两年前吧，我们做过一期节目，请了Connie Vogelman来聊我们最喜欢的五款荒岛生存桌游。

Now, did an episode about a year ago or so, maybe two years ago, with Connie Vogelman about our top five desert Island games.

我觉得那期节目其实已经回答了这个问题，但我还是把这个问题留在这里，主要有两个原因。

And I feel like that kind of answers this question, but I left this one in here anyway for two reasons.

第一，当时Chris没机会回答。

One, because Chris didn't get a chance to answer at that time.

第二，因为大家的口味和想法可能会随着时间改变。

Two, because our tastes change and thoughts may have changed.

但是第二点，我觉得如果把它缩减到余生只能玩两款游戏，那这个命题就有点不一样了。

But two, I think if you slim it down to two games the rest of your life, then it changes the proposition a little bit.

所以咱们快点说，两位，两款游戏。

So fairly quickly, guys, two games.

如果余生只能玩两款，你们会选哪两款？

If you could only play two the rest of your life, what would be your two games?

我在想康妮·沃格尔曼那期节目，蒂姆，我忘了当时我说了什么，但现在我要说的是这个。

I was thinking that Connie Vogelman episode, Tim, and I forgot what I said on there, but here's what I'm gonna say now.

我之前已经提过了。

I mentioned it already.

这期节目是《日蚀：银河第二黎明》。

This episode Eclipse, second Dawn for the Galaxy.

盒子里有六个阵营，我记得是。

You've got the six, I believe factions that come in the box.

我还有扩展包，又加了四个阵营。

I've got the expansions which add four other factions.

所以，不同的玩家人数、可以玩的阵营、它们之间的互动方式，还有游戏本身的变数，以及你能建造的飞船种类，这些都会让游戏呈现出完全不同的体验。

So the different player counts that you can have with that, the different factions you can play, how they interact with each other, just the variability of the game itself and the different ships you can build and how that's all gonna pan out.

我觉得可能性是无穷无尽的。

I think there's endless possibilities there.

然后我还选了 Azul，当然啦。

And then I also said Azul, of course.

你打开就能马上开始玩，两个人玩的时候还能来一场小小的策略对决。

You can just open this one up, start playing almost immediately and you have this little strategic battle at two players.

我比较喜欢这么玩。

That's how I prefer to play it.

然后双方来回拉扯，互相博弈。

And a little back and forth tug of war.

你知道的，既然这辈子只玩这一款游戏，最好找个跟你一样痴迷的搭档，这样能不断磨练策略，你会忍不住想：他们到底在搞什么名堂？

You know, you're only gonna play this one the rest of your life, hopefully, you're playing with someone else that's just as into it as you are and you're gonna get that sort of, you know, sharpening of strategies and going, oh, what's what are they doing?

我得想办法克制他们，看他们下一步往哪儿走。

I'm gonna try to counter this, where are they going?

而且我觉得，深入玩《阿祖尔》还会发现一些很妙的东西。

And just some neat things are gonna emerge from exploring Azul, think.

所以这两款游戏都很棒。

So both those games are fantastic.

我觉得我永远不会玩腻其中任何一款。

I don't think I'd ever get sick of playing either one of them.

我的选择跟你有点类似。

I have kind of similar choices to you.

我的首选是《沙丘：帝国》。

My my number one is Dune Imperium.

当然，这是我今年个人前五十榜单上的第一名，但我觉得即使它排名没那么靠前，就像前几年那样，不知怎么的，我就是觉得《沙丘：帝国》百玩不厌，特别刺激。

And of course, this was my number one game on my on my top 50 list this year, but I think even if it had been lower like it hasn't been has in previous years, for some reason, I feel like Dune Imperium is infinitely replayable and exciting.

它唯一的问题是不太适合两个人玩，虽然也能两个人玩，我觉得我能接受。我的第二选择是《海盐与纸》。

The the only problem with it is it's not great at two players, although you can play at two players, and I think I could live with My second one is Sea Salt and Paper.

一款简单的小卡牌游戏，不知怎么的，我就是玩不腻，而且它正好处在另一个极端。

Simple little card game that for some reason I never get tired of, and it just fits the opposite end of that spectrum.

如果你想玩两三个小时的重策略游戏，沙丘帝国，我能一直玩下去。

You wanna play for two or three hours, heavier strategy game, Dude Imperium, I could play it forever.

如果我只想玩一个快速的三十分钟游戏，适合两到四个人，那就是海盐与纸。

I wanted just a quick thirty minute game with two to four players, sea salt and paper.

所以这两个游戏，我觉得，虽然我会想念很多其他游戏，但如果以后只能玩这两个，我也会很开心。

So those two, I feel like, although I'd miss a lot of other games, I would be pretty happy if those were the only two I ever got to play again.

嗯，我做的和你们有点像，但又有点不同。

Well, I did something similar to what you guys did and different in a way.

你们至少有一个稍微复杂一点的例子。

You guys had at least one slightly more complex example.

好吧，让我先说说我真正的选择。

Well, let me let me start with my actual choices.

我的选择是星际王国和阿祖尔。

My choices were Star Realms and Azul.

我选它们的原因是，我觉得，你知道，任何宏大、主题性强且相对复杂的游戏，最终都会让我感到厌倦。

And the reason for those was because I thought of it as kind of a, you know, anything that's big and thematic and relatively heavy is eventually going to get tiresome for me.

如果我只反复玩那一款游戏，玩了一遍又一遍，那它的新鲜感肯定会慢慢消退的。

If all I'm playing is that game over and over and over and over again, it's bound to you know, the shine is gonna wear off of it.

而《星际王国》和《阿祖尔》这两款游戏，规则相对简单，但重玩性和策略深度都非常高。

And Star Realms and Azul both have the benefit of being relatively simple from a rule set, but very complex in terms of their their replayability and their the the depth of strategy.

《星际王国》还有一个好处，就是它有一个不错的小主题，即使这个主题并没有特别深入地体现在游戏玩法中。

Star Rims also has the benefit of having a nice little theme associated with it even if the theme is not, you know, super deeply reflected in the in the the gameplay.

但现在听了你们说的，特别是蒂姆你提到的《沙丘帝国》，我其实在想，我之前的想法可能有点短视了，因为我觉得《沙丘帝国》是一款很棒的游戏，重玩性也很高。

But now listening to you guys, especially, Tim, what you said about Dune Imperium, I actually wonder if that may be a little bit shortsighted because I think Dune Imperium is a is a great game that has a lot of replayability.

有趣的是，我在思考这个问题的时候，虽然问题没有明确说是荒岛游戏，但我潜意识里就把它当成了荒岛游戏来想。

And the funny thing is as I was thinking through this, I was even though the question didn't specify desert island games, I kind of thought of it as a desert island games.

而且不知怎么的，这让我想到了两个人玩的情况。

And for some reason, that made me think of two players.

我是说，也许我可以和几个人一起流落到荒岛上，然后我们就能玩三人局或四人局了。

I mean, I guess maybe I could land on a desert island with multiple people and we could have a three player game or a four player game.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

现在我在重新考虑我的答案了。

Now now I'm rethinking my answers.

但是，Chris，如果你是一个人被困在荒岛上，而Azul和Star Realms都没有单人模式，那你岂不是彻底完蛋了？

But, Chris, what if you were the only person on the Desert Island and neither Azul or Star Realms has a solo mode, so then you're totally screwed?

至少Dune Imperium有

At least dude Imperium's got

我这边有它兜底。

me covered there.

说得对，兄弟。

Facts, dude.

确实。

Facts.

好吧。

Alright.

Jules问，你有哪些圣杯级别的游戏，无论是玩还是收藏？

Jules said, what are your holy grail games to play and or to own?

他说的圣杯游戏，我觉得这个词通常指的是那种梦寐以求的游戏。

And what he says by Holy Grail Games, I think that the term is often Grail Games.

所以我觉得就是那种你可能一直没机会玩，或者一直想玩、想拥有的游戏。

So I think it's like a game that maybe you've never had a chance to or have always wanted to play it or own it.

所以这是你一直在寻找的东西。

And so it's something you're searching out for.

通常这些游戏可能已经绝版了，或者很难找到，至少我是这么理解的。

Typically, these are ones that are maybe out of print or hard to find at least though that's how I thought of them.

所以我这里有几个。

So I had a couple here.

我之前提到过，《禁忌之星》。

I mentioned it earlier, Forbidden Stars.

那个我不一定想拥有它。

That's one I don't necessarily want to own it.

我想玩一下，看看感觉怎么样。

I want to play it and see how that goes.

我听说那是个大型史诗类的4X游戏，有个挺酷的机制，不知道是行动选择还是战斗系统，用那些扑克筹码，你把它们叠起来，然后从上到下依次翻开。

I heard it's a big epic sort of four x c kind of game with a neat I don't if it's action selection or combat system with these poker chips where you're kinda stacking them up and then they reveal themselves from top to bottom.

所以顺序有点讲究，它们怎么运作，以及在一轮中东西是怎么被揭示的。

So the order is kinda finicky and how those work and how your how things get revealed during the course of the round.

听起来挺有意思的。

Sounds pretty interesting.

然后是《兴衰》，这是个我没参与的众筹项目。

And then Rise and Fall, this was a Kickstarter that I didn't jump in on.

我相信在我们去的BGG大会上，他们有在卖。

They were selling them, I believe, at the BGG Con we went to.

蒂姆本来可以免费拿一份的，我觉得。

Tim could have gotten a free copy, I think.

不，不一定是免费的，但好像是其中一个设计师，或者跟公司有关的人，在我们聚会时过来，说：嘿，我们很希望你们能过来玩玩看，体验一下。

No, there wasn't a free copy necessarily, but it was like one of the designers, I think, or someone associated with the company came up during our meetup and said, Hey, we'd love for you guys to stop by and come play it with us and check it out.

我想他们当时在做演示之类的。

I think they were doing demos of it or something like that.

说实话，我也后悔没去试一下，Adam。

And I honestly regret not taking them up on it either, Adam.

当时我心思不在这上面，但对我来说那游戏看起来也挺酷的。

It wasn't in my mindset at the time, but it looks like a cool game to me as well.

真希望我当时去试了。

I wish I would have given it shot.

对，听起来是个很有意思的游戏，游戏开始时你要搭建地形，然后后面会有各种演变。

Yeah, it sounds like a very interesting game where you're building up the terrain at the beginning of the game and then stuff evolves.

听起来非常动态。

It's very dynamic, it sounds like.

我一直挺感兴趣的，但很难找到。

One I've been interested in, but it's very hard to find.

所以，Binstars 和 Rise and Fall 就是我最想找的游戏了。

So those are my holy grail games for Binstars and Rise and Fall.

我几乎玩过所有我想试的游戏了。

I've had a chance to play almost anything I really wanted to try.

有一个我差点就写进清单里的游戏，就是《王国死亡怪物》，虽然我也不确定自己是不是真有这种感觉。

One that I almost put on my list here, but I I don't know if I really even feel this way, but it's Kingdom Death Monster.

主要是因为我不知道什么时候才有机会玩到它，但它排在Board Game Geek前100名里，而且我敢肯定这也不是Tim喜欢的类型，对吧？

Just because I don't know when I will ever get a chance to play it, but because it's on the Board Game Geek Top 100, and I'm sure it's not even a Tim game, right?

不过我觉得玩上一两局应该会挺有意思的，至少能让我了解一下它的机制，搞清楚怎么玩。

But I think I could have fun exploring it for session or two, just so I learned the mechanisms and figured it out.

所以我是挺想试试那个的，但那并不是我真正写进清单里的东西。

So I would kind of like to play that, but that wasn't really what I put on my list.

只是如果有机会的话，我会很高兴去玩一玩。

It's just something that if I ever get a chance, I'll be happy I did.

Tim，我听说那个游戏有点成人向，非常——

Tim, I heard there's some adult ish, very

像那种画风比较露骨的那种？

Like graphic artwork and stuff?

那可能对你来说有点太成人了，不太适合你的口味。

That might be sort of a little too adult shelf material for your likings.

是因为他对塔罗牌的反应吗？

Based on his reaction to the tarot cards?

我不知道。

I don't.

也许吧。

Maybe.

我只知道里面的第一个剧本是什么。

I only know really what the first scenario is in it.

而且，你知道，我是人体的忠实粉丝，所以这完全没问题。

And I you know, listen, I'm a big fan of the human body, so it's perfectly fine.

但我不知道那里会有什么。

But I don't I don't know what to expect there.

我只知道它显然是一个非常受欢迎、备受喜爱的游戏，所以我应该找个时间试试。

All I know is that it's obviously a very popular, well loved game, so I should try it at some point.

但这是我真正的答案，这是一个我玩过的游戏，但我想拥有的游戏，而且它已经绝版了，那就是《Biblios》。

But here's my real answer, and it is a game I've played, but a game that I would like to own, and it's out of print, and that's Biblios.

有意思，这集前面另一个问题里也提到了这个。

It's funny it came up on a different question earlier in this episode.

这个游戏有再版了。

There is a reprint of this.

其实，当我在一期节目里聊到这个的时候，我说希望它能再版。

And when in fact, when I talked about this on an episode, I said, wish this was in print.

然后设计师联系我说，它已经再版了。

The the designer reached out and said, it is.

这是新版吗？

Is this new version?

我看了新版之后，我说，我永远不会拥有那个游戏。

And I looked at the new version, I said, I'm never gonna own that game.

它看起来糟透了。

It looks terrible.

我觉得有一个新的重制版。

I think there's a new reimplementation.

我好像听说有个新版本要出，换了新主题。

I feel like I heard there's a new reimplementation with a new theme coming out.

所以我会留意的，当然。

So I'll watch for that, of course.

但除此之外，我觉得《Biblios》就是那种很棒的小游戏。

But barring that, I just Biblios is this great little package.

它的盒子看起来像一本旧圣经，像本书。

It comes in a box that looks like a like an old Bible, like a book.

打开之后，里面是个很棒的小卡牌游戏，还带骰子。

And then you open it up and it's this great little card game with dice.

主题和制作没什么特别的，但作为一套游戏，它运作得完美无缺，而且我很想拥有它，因为它是那么精致的小游戏，我可以一直玩下去。

Nothing spectacular about the theme or the production, but it just works perfectly as a package and a game I would like to own because it's such a slick little little game that I could play indefinitely.

所以《Biblios》现在就是我心心念念的游戏。

So Biblios is my Grail game right now.

对。

Right.