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嘿，你好。
Hey there.
我是Stillfleet工作室的怀斯·马歇尔。
This is Wythe Marshall from the Stillfleet studio.
我们做了一个叫《Why We Roll》的小播客，现在特别高兴能加入Poderation这个播客网络。
We put together a little podcast called Why We Roll, and now we're very proud to be part of the network, Poderation.
如果你正在听Poderation的其他精彩节目，又对桌面角色扮演游戏感兴趣——就是那种TTRPG，那你一定也会喜欢我们的节目。
So if you're listening to one of Poderation's other great shows and you're interested in TTRPGs specifically, that's tabletop role playing games, you might be interested in our show.
《Why We Roll》讲的就是你怎么玩TTRPG，为什么好玩，能讲出哪些不一样的故事，甚至包括怎么把它做成一门正经生意的实用建议。
Why We Roll is all about how you make TTRPGs, what makes them fun, different kinds of stories you can tell with TTRPGs, and even the business of the practical advice side.
如果你对这些感兴趣——不管是当主持人的，想自己设计原创游戏，还是想进这行——不妨去听听《Why We Roll》。
So if any of that sounds appealing, whether you're a GM, you wanna design your homebrew game, or you're interested in getting in the industry, why don't you head over to why we roll?
来关注我们吧。
Check us out.
真的非常感谢，也继续做出更棒的内容吧！
We really, really appreciate it, and keep making awesome stuff.
欢迎来到桌游匿名会。
Welcome to boardgamersanonymous.
这档播客，谁都能来上桌。
The podcast where everyone's welcome to table.
不过嘛，老规矩，谁该轮了？谁也说不准。
But of course, as always, no one knows whose turn it is.
我是克里斯。
This is Chris.
嘿，我是安东尼。
Hey, and this is Anthony.
这是第575期，那些改变我们的游戏。
And this is episode 575, the games that changed us.
特别感谢所有Patreon赞助者，帮我们解锁了这期新内容。
We'd like to thank all our Patreon backers for helping us unlock a brand new episode.
大家好啊。
Hello, friends.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
很高兴这周你能来和我们一起玩。
We're so glad that you're able to join us here at the table this week.
这期节目绝对精彩。
This is gonna be a fantastic episode.
Anthony 在这儿，咱们今天聊聊那些改变我们的游戏，Anthony。
Anthony's here, and we are talking about the games that changed us, Anthony.
卡牌背后的激烈变革。
Radical chains through cardboard.
卡牌背后的激烈变革。
Radical chains through cardboard.
是的。
Yeah.
其实，这话题我最近几周都聊过。
So, I mean, we I've talked about this for a few weeks now.
这会是我最后一期常驻的BGA节目了。
This this will be my final regular recurring episode on on BGA.
关于这个，我有很多话想说，待会儿再聊。
And, you know, much to say about that shortly.
不过今天咱们想聊的，是回头看看那些游戏——但还是要保持咱们播客一贯的风格，就是聊聊游戏，聊聊我们和这些游戏之间的关系。
But in terms of, like, what we wanna talk about today, I wanted to take a look back, but also in a way that's still, you know, true to the podcast in the form, like talking about games, talking about our relationship with those games.
所以我想回溯一下过去十三年左右，那些改变我们的游戏，作为播客主持人、作为玩家、作为普通人。
And so figured we'd look back over the last thirteen or so years at the games that we've played that changed us as podcasters, as hobbyists, as people.
这些游戏五花八门，啥都有。
And so it kinda runs the gamut.
有些游戏就是，嘿，我玩了这个，才发现原来我喜欢这种类型。
Some of these games are like, hey, I played this and I found out a new type of game I like.
对吧？
Right?
这种转变真的挺大的，咱们待会儿细说。
Which can be transformational and we'll talk about it.
还有些游戏，我玩了之后，真的改变了我看世界的方式。
And others are, hey, I played this game and it literally changed how I see the world.
对吧？
Right?
你知道，游戏就有这种力量。
Which I you know, games have that power.
当然也不完全是这样。
It's not exclusively that.
是两者都有。
It's a bit of both.
这种话题我们 podcast 上早就聊过很多次了。
So, there's certainly a place for that and and we've talked about it at length on the podcast.
但我心想，不如趁这将近十五年的时间，挑几个关键节点，说说哪些时候我突然觉得，哦，我对世界的看法变了，对游戏的理解不一样了，或者对自己作为玩家的身份有了新的认识。
But, I thought it'd be fun just like over the course of a decade, almost a decade and a half, here here are, like, kind of the stop points at which, like, oh, I see things differently now or, oh, I understand games differently or I understand myself as a gamer differently.
我们俩都有一大堆清单。
And, we we have both have big old lists.
是的
Yeah.
这是一份特别个人化的游戏清单，按时间顺序记录了这些游戏如何一点一点改变了我们这些玩家、我们对游戏的看法、对行业的理解，以及最终把我们带到了今天。
Really autobiographical list of games and how chronologically, historically, and personally, it's changed us, our us as gamers, our view of gaming, our view of the industry, and where it led us to today.
所以，算上575期节目之后，这么说吧。
So, 575 episodes later, so to speak.
对。
Right.
就这么个小东西。
This this little thing.
这算是个
This is a
一段小旅程。
little journey.
算是个小高潮吧。
It's a minor culmination.
这事儿不大。
It's not big.
对。
Yeah.
真不大。
It's not big.
就只是个小小的播客圈子。
Just a little fellowship of the podcast.
瞧见没？
Oh, see?
你看，
There you
早该这么叫了。
Should've called it that.
听起来好多了。
It sounds a lot better.
我们该
We should
这么干。
do that.
对吧？
Right?
咱们能倒回去吗？
Can we go back?
就只是些阳光集数而已。
It's only fucking sunshine episodes.
我们没问题的。
We're good.
播客兄弟会。
Fellowship of the podcast.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
行吧。
Alright.
你可以这么干。
You could do that.
没人会知道的。
No one needs to know.
对啊。
Yeah.
这事儿要是真成了，可太搞笑了。
Literally, that'd be funny.
咱回头把一切都改了。
Could go back and change everything.
人家肯定得问：这播客是啥玩意儿？
People are like, what is this podcast?
我啥时候订阅了这个？
When did I subscribe to this?
和播客组一起冒险？
Fellowship with the pod?
你是说‘和是的’一起冒险？
Is that is that Fellowship with Yeah.
和……一起
Fellowship with
这种东西肯定以某种形式存在。
There's no way that doesn't exist in some form.
它肯定在某个地方存在着。
It's gotta it's gotta exist somewhere out there.
现在有好多RPG游戏或者RPG玩家呢。
There's a lot of RPGs or RPG gamers out there.
所以是啊。
So Yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我敢打赌，肯定有人在那儿用得特别溜。
I'm sure somewhere out there has been using it quite well.
我女儿最近因为晚上无聊，才发现了播客。
My my daughter discovered podcasts recently because she's been bored at night.
对。
Yeah.
我们俩都累坏了。
We've been we've been tired.
她就说：‘哎，播客？’
So she's like, oh, podcast.
她一下子找到了四个讲她正在读的那套书的播客。
She found, like, four podcasts about this one book series she reads.
怎么可能没有一个叫《播客同盟》的播客，讲《指环王》的呢？
There's no way there's not a podcast called Fellowship of the Pod about Lord of the Rings.
百分之百。
A 100%.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得是。
I think so.
但我们完全可以拿来用。
But we could steal it.
没事的。
It's alright.
独立制作的？没人关心这个。
Independent No one wants to know.
已经在播客上了。
It's on the pod.
没关系。
It's fine.
没事的。
It's fine.
对。
Yeah.
我们这期节目内容特别精彩。
We have a great episode for you.
这期节目我们会聊很多很多内容，毕竟这是安东尼的最后一期节目。
We're gonna be covering a lot a lot of stuff for this episode, of course, Anthony's last episode.
有太多话题要谈，有太多话想说，有太多东西值得分享。
So, a lot to talk about, a lot to be said, a lot to be had.
感谢大家对我们、尤其是对安东尼在最后一期节目中的支持。
Thank you all for your outreach to us and obviously to Anthony on his last episode.
感谢大家在 patreon.com/bga 上支持我们。
Thank you for joining us on patreon.com/bga.
不管你是不是免费会员，还是付费会员，都对我们帮助巨大。
Whether you're listed as a free member or a paid member, that helps us tremendously.
BGA 会以一种全新、更疯狂、更有活力的方式继续下去，而你，就在桌边，正是这一切的核心。
BGA will continue on in a new radical, fun, crazy, dynamic way with you, specifically you at the table.
我知道很多人发来了问题，我们会在播客里一一回答，还会聊些有趣的话题，也会请一些有趣的嘉宾来，希望更多听众能加入我们，一起聊聊游戏。
So I know a lot of you have sent questions in, that we'll answer on the podcast, some fun stuff that we'll be talking about, and we'll have some fun guests coming up and hopefully, have some listeners join us at the at the table so, we could talk games.
不过呢。
But yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
挺好。
Good.
说真的，你知道吗，以前你还老拿这事笑话我。
I mean, I just you know, it it's funny after and you used to make fun of me for this.
但我觉得我们后来其实早就放下了，只是——
I think we got over it at a certain point, but
是的
Mhmm.
我不听这个播客。
I don't listen to the podcast.
哦，不会吧。
Oh, no.
因为我一直在播客里出镜，而且很长一段时间我都负责剪辑，所以没必要单独再听一遍。
Well, because I'm on the podcast and I, for a long time, edited the podcast, so I didn't need to listen to it separately to that.
不过偶尔也会翻出来听听，看看效果怎么样。
Although, you know, occasionally poke around and just kinda hear how things sounded.
对啊。
Uh-huh.
但现在我终于能好好听一听啦。
But now I get to listen to it, you know.
这就对了。
There you go.
现在你真是个真正的听众了。
It could be a real listener now.
有时候我出差，或者家里有了孩子什么的。
Periodically, I'd be out of town or like I'd have a child or something.
那时候我就想，嘿，这期节目我可以听听了，反正我也不知道他们聊了啥。
And I was like, oh, I can listen to these episodes because I don't know what they talked about.
这太棒了。
This is great.
没错。
Exactly.
我记得听过你和德鲁吵各种话题。
I remember listening to you and Dru argue about, all these different.
是啊。
Yeah.
对，什么都吵。
Yeah, everything.
但那个预测那一集，我清楚记得自己坐在火车上，听着呢。
But the predictions episode, I'm gonna have a specific memory of sitting on the train Mhmm.
你跟德鲁聊游戏桌游的历史和未来，他一听就说：这也太离谱了吧。
Listening to you tell Dru about the history, the future of the board gaming hobby and him being like, that's crazy.
结果你几乎每句话都猜对了。
And you were right about almost everything you said.
没错。
Yes.
我当时就觉得，这集真棒。
I'm really like, that's a great episode.
特别有意思。
That was fun.
作为粉丝听当然很不一样，但我是那种特别了解你们俩的粉丝。
So it's it's very different, obviously, to to listen as a as a fan, but, you know, a fan who knows you very, very well.
当然。
Sure.
所以呢，我以前也说过，这事儿真是又甜又苦，更多是苦，真的挺难的。
So it's, I've said this before, is very bittersweet, to have to mostly bitter, but it's it's tough.
我参与了这个播客，和人一起创办这个节目，都快十三年了。
Like, I've been part of the podcast, found the co found the podcast for almost thirteen years.
差一点到十三年，但已经做了将近六百期了。
Not quite there, almost 600 episodes.
这十几年来，它一直是我生活的一部分。
And it's been a part of my life that whole time.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Mhmm.
我们可是特别要好的朋友。
You know, we're we're very close friends.
我们俩天天待在一起。
We spend a lot of time together.
我们参加过的展会简直数都数不清，真的。
We've been to literally dozens of conventions Yeah.
这么多年来，从一开始懵懵懂懂摸索该做什么，到后来硬是撑过疫情，想办法找话题继续做下去。
Over that time, from the earliest days of figuring out what we were doing to somehow powering through and figuring out something to talk about during COVID.
当然了。
Sure.
居然还隔着Zoom玩两个不同印刷版的游戏。
Literally playing two differently printed copies of a game over Zoom.
哦，对啊。
Oh, yeah.
俩人对着屏幕大喊，计分板对不上。
Yelling at each other the score tracks not fat matching.
我们真干过太多稀奇古怪的事了。
Like, there we've done so many different things.
你老开玩笑说，咱们该做个表格，把所有干过的事都列出来。
Like, you always joke about, like, we should have a spreadsheet of all the different things we've done.
确实如此。
Oh, it's true.
我们干过这么多稀奇古怪的玩意儿，比如以前还做过一阵子Twitch直播，真的。
All these different, like, endeavors or or like, hey, we did a twitch thing for a while and It's true.
我们还搞过一个Kickstarter的预览活动。
We we did this Kickstarter preview.
我拍了个《 terraforming Mars》的视频。
Hey, I made a video of Terraforming Mars.
我拍得比谁都早，反正都做了，为什么不早点发呢？
It was up before anybody else because why not?
我就这么干了。
I just did it.
这么多年来，这早就成了我生活的一部分。
And so it's just it's been part of my life for that whole time.
你知道吗？当初我们刚开始做播客的时候，我女儿还没出生呢。
You know, when I started when we started the podcast, my daughter wasn't even born yet.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
因为当我听你和Druid聊你们的预测时，我女儿刚出生不久。
Because that like, when I was listening to you and Druid talk about your predictions, that's because my daughter just been born.
没错。
It's
对。
true.
那会儿正好是第50期。
And that was, like, episode 50.
对。
Mhmm.
所以这一直是我生活中特别重要的一部分。
So it's been, you know, a tremendous part of my life.
可能这就是为什么做出这个决定这么难。
It's probably it was why it's so difficult to make that decision.
我想让每一位听众都知道，无论你听了十几集还是575集，我真的很感激你一直陪着我。
And it's, you know, it's important to me that everybody listening knows how much I appreciate that you've listened, whether you've listened for a dozen episodes or 575.
也要感谢所有参与过这档节目的人——不管是主持人、嘉宾，还是这些年因为家庭原因替我顶班的各位。
And to everybody who's been part of the show, whether you've been a host or you've been just a guest in the show or all the people who filled in for me over the years when family, came up.
我真的不知道该怎么说了。
And it's just I don't know.
几周前我们聊过这事，当时就觉得词穷了，现在还是词穷，这挺让人头疼的，毕竟咱们是播客主持人，按理说不该没话说啊。
It's I I we talked about it a few weeks ago, and I felt like it was a bit of a loss for words, and I'm still kind of at a loss for words, which is difficult, considering, you know, we're podcasters, not supposed to be a loss for words.
但真的很难。
But it's it's hard.
对吧？
Right?
所以我觉得，克里斯，你和我肯定还会继续做下去。
And so I think and obviously, you and I, Chris, will will continue to to do stuff.
对。
Mhmm.
我们还是朋友，这点不会变。
We're still friends, and that's not gonna change.
以后要是有什么事或者咱们搞点啥，我可能还会偶尔冒个头。
And I will probably poke my head in here occasionally, if something comes up or we do something.
你知道的，这事儿咱们已经坚持了十几年，每周都这么干。
But it's you know, we we've this has been a a regular this has been a routine for over a dozen years.
每周准时上线，聊聊生活，顺便把播客录了。
You know, we hop on once a week and and talk about life and then record a podcast.
所以啊，不管新朋友还是老听众，真的特别感谢你们。
So, yeah, I just to everybody out there, new listeners and old, thank you so much.
我真的很感激。
I appreciate it.
谢谢你们所有的留言。
I appreciate all your messages.
我真的很感激一切。
I appreciate everything.
我肯定会继续跟着，特别期待看你干的那些疯狂事儿，Chris，还有谁来做嘉宾，他们又会带来啥稀奇古怪的东西，让节目总能有点新花样。
And I definitely, you know, stick around and I'm I'm excited to see all the crazy stuff that you do, Chris, and who comes on and what weird nonsense they bring with them to kinda mix things up.
也希望你们大家都别走，继续关注下去，因为接下来肯定会超棒的。
And hopefully, you know, all of you stick stick around as well and and see what's going on, because it's it's gonna be awesome.
我知道。
I know.
谢谢你，安东尼。
Well, thank you, Anthony.
这个播客要是没了你，根本就不存在——这些年我们聊过的成千上万条理由，还有那些没录下来的时候你帮我们做的事儿：网站做得那么棒，播客做得那么稳，还有无数其他琐碎却关键的贡献，全靠你。
And and, this podcast wouldn't be a podcast without you, obviously, for all the thousands of reasons that we've talked about over the years and obviously stuff that we've talked over, you know, off mic from all the technical services you've provided to make the website fantastic, the podcast fantastic, all the different endless numbers of things to that, you know, endeavor.
你作为播客人的本事，这些年更是没得说，咱们俩一起扛过的那些难题、各种突发状况，你都撑住了。
And your skill and ability as a podcaster, obviously, you know, especially over all these years and all the different challenges and situations that, you know, you and I both faced.
说实话，中间真的经历过太多艰难时刻了。
Obviously, there's been a lot, a lot of difficult times in there.
你说得对，都快十三年了。
You know, you're talking, like you said, almost thirteen years.
这期间有起有落，有左有右，几乎每周都准时出一期，就是想让大家知道，我们经历的，其实大伙儿都在经历。
So ups and downs, lefts and rights, you know, all those different things and, you know, coming on each and every week pretty much to put on an episode for everyone out there because we know that just as we experience those things, everybody out there is experiencing those things too.
每一位听众，都是远在天边的朋友，像坐在一张特别特别长的餐桌那头，离得老远，但依然在我们身边。
And everybody out there is, you know, a friend from a distance, you know, somebody at our table, but a very long, very distant table.
做这个播客，就是想把大家请进来。
And, you know, the podcast was a way to invite them in.
当初我们做播客，理由很多，一方面是为了支持咱们本地那家友好的桌游店，另一方面也是想给那些感觉孤单的人一个家——那些没机会每周和朋友一起玩、聊天，甚至没人愿意听他们说话的人。
And, you know, when we started the podcast, we started for many reasons, obviously, to support, you know, our local friendly game store, but also everybody out there who did feel anonymous, who didn't have, you know, or weren't fortunate enough to have, you know, a large group of friends to game with every week and to have those conversations and discussions and, you know, even just someone to listen or someone to listen to.
现在行业发展了，越来越多人被接纳，氛围也好多了，可当年根本不是这样。
And, you know, as the industry has grown and really welcome more people and expanded tremendously and and gained much more acceptance, you know, way back in the day, it was not that way.
现在想想，Kickstarter上一款游戏能筹到两千万美元，真有点难以置信，可那时候，这种事根本不敢想。
And now it's a little hard to think of that now where games on Kickstarter are making $20,000,000 but there was a time when that was not a thing.
对我们这些渴望交流、渴望连接的人来说，那时候的播客，真的特别珍贵。
And obviously, for a lot of us who, sought that kind of interaction engagement, it was incredibly valuable.
你知道吗，桌游圈真的特别棒，它让人与人相连，带我们走进奇幻和科幻的世界，还学到了历史、地理，还有无数关于世界和自己的道理。
You know, tabletop industry has been wonderful as far as connecting to other people, connecting to fantasy and sci fi and learning history and geography and endless lessons about the world and about ourselves.
安东尼，这整个过程中，你一直扮演着至关重要的角色。
So, you've been a huge part of that, Anthony, throughout the whole time.
我知道，所有听众都由衷地感谢你，我代表大家说——你给这个行业带来了清晰、乐趣、慷慨和热情。
And I know that everybody out there and I'm speaking for everybody out there really thanks you for that because I think you've brought clarity and fun and generosity and passion to this industry.
这真不容易，你知道的，像我们这样内向的人，还要对着麦克风跟无数个看不见的听众说话，只盼着有人能听见，盼着他们能感受到连接，盼着他们能觉得自己属于这里——而他们确实属于。
And, that's not an easy thing to do, you know, for, you know, being introverts as we are going out there and talking on a podcast to endless people out there in the void and hoping that they hear us on the other side and hopefully that they feel connected and hopefully they feel like they belong because they do.
每个人都有属于这里的位置，我们特别高兴你在这里。
Everyone does belong and we're so glad to have you here.
我们更高兴你能继续和我们一路走下去，就算你人不在，安东尼，你的精神也一直和我们同在，因为你我当初为这个播客定下的使命，就是欢迎每一个人。
And we're so glad to have you continue with us as we continue on because, while you may not be here, you're with us in spirit, Anthony, because the mission that you and I brought to the table here to the podcast has been very much that everyone's welcome.
我们都在一起，一起玩得开心。
Everyone's here together, and let's have some fun.
来吧，掷个骰子。
You know, let's roll some dice.
咱们来动动棋子吧。
Let's move some pieces.
再说说接下来有什么好玩的吧，那才是最带劲的部分。
And, you know, let's talk about what's coming up because that's always the fun stuff.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Totally.
我真的特别感谢你。
I I really appreciate that.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
当然。
Sure.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
这事儿肯定特别棒，因为你是个超棒的主持人，这么多年来一直像一股旋风一样撑着这个播客。
It's it's gonna be awesome because you are an incredible host, and you've been, you know, just a a force of nature behind this podcast for so long.
所以我知道，你只要下定决心，就一定能成，我超期待看到你接下来要做什么。
So I know, you know, whatever you put your mind to, it's gonna happen, and, I'm looking forward to seeing what that is.
哎呀，谢谢。
Oh, thanks.
我虽然人不在，但精神上一直在。
I'm, you know, here in spirit.
我可是真身到场的。
I'm here in physicality.
我在Discord上，大家随时可以进来打个招呼。
I'm on Discord if anybody wants to pop in and say hi.
咱们可以聊聊
We can talk about
你得去听播客才能知道啦。
you now, so you'll just have to listen to it on the podcast.
啊，别这样。
Oh, no.
就是那个叫安东尼的家伙。
You know, the Anthony guy.
想让我回来？简单，只要让我碰一碰，待上俩月就行。
That's the secret to get me back on and just, like, talk touch it for like two months.
行吧，我回来啦。
Like, alright, I'm back.
别闹了。
Shut up.
都是因为那些破事儿。
Because of junks.
开个新播客吧。
Start a new podcast.
是的
Yeah.
这叫播客兄弟情。
It's fellowship of the pod.
就这。
That's it.
我做到了。
I did it.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你看，我每期都参加，就算你没来的时候，我们也会在某种程度上提到你。
I I mean, look, I've been on I've been on for every episode, and I don't think there's been an episode even when you weren't on that we didn't mention you on some levels.
所以……
So
确实如此。
That's true.
确实如此。
That's true.
我本来也会在的，对吧。
I would have been, yeah.
安东尼反正也不在。
Anthony's not here, anyways.
安东尼不在。
Anthony's not here.
我知道。
I know.
等等。
Wait.
等等。
Wait.
请继续收听。
Please continue to listen.
等等。
Wait.
请继续听。
Please continue to listen.
这还是会很有趣的。
It's still gonna be fun.
我知道安东尼是你最喜欢的。
I know Anthony's your favorite.
拜托，再等一下。
Please, just hold on.
等一下。
Hold on.
马上就来。
It's coming.
马上就来。
It's coming.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
外面可有不少好玩的时光。
Some good times out there.
所有这些精彩内容都还保存在 boardgamersanonymous.com，或者你用的任何播客平台里。
And, all of those good times are still up there at boardgamersanonymous.com or any podcast player that you use.
你随时都能回去听我们以前的全部节目。
You should be able to go back and listen to all of our episodes.
如果你想重温一集特别精彩的安东尼专场，赶紧去翻一翻吧。
So if you wanna have a really fun, good Anthony episode, please jump back.
说实话，我们一直都有个习惯，就是愿意多花点钱把老节目都留着，毕竟桌游这事儿嘛——
I mean, I think that's one of the things that we've always, you know, done about the podcast is we put, you know, we put some extra money in to keep the old episodes because that's the thing about tabletop gaming.
它永远不会过时。
It's evergreen.
那些游戏现在玩起来还是特别棒。
Those, you know, those games are still good to play.
那些游戏玩起来依然特别有意思。
Those games are still fun to play.
它们可不像电子游戏，过几年就被淘汰、升级、扔一边了。
They don't they're not like video games that get replaced and upgraded and dismissed.
所以你随便翻回哪一集，比如第500集或者250集，都能听到超精彩的Anthony专场，他在这节目里真的太出彩了。
So you could jump back to some random episode, like episode 500 or something like that or episode 250, whatever it might be, and you could have a great Anthony episode because he's great on the podcast.
他是我最最爱的播客主持人。
He's my favorite podcaster.
虽然我的播客订阅列表要缩水了，但咱们往后照样玩得开心。
So my podcast, feed will be lessened, but, we'll still have fun moving forward.
好了，Anthony，我替大伙儿再说一句：祝你一切顺利，期待很快再听到你的消息。
So with that said, Anthony, I guess, again, on behalf of everyone, good luck, and, we hope to hear from you soon.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
谢谢。
Thank you.
好的。
Alright.
最后再提一件事，毕竟这事儿跟桌游有关，而说到桌游，哪儿能不提BoardGameGeek呢？
Well, one last thing I wanna mention because, you know, it is a it is a board game thing, and there's nothing more boardgamy than boardgamegeek.
就像我们上周说的，BoardGameGeek今年的年度金 Geek 奖正在投票了。
And as we mentioned last week, boardgamegeek has their annual Golden Geek Awards.
提名现在开放了。
Their nominations are open.
如果你在BoardGameGeek上注册过，或者哪怕只是想给Anthony的播客投一票——他真的配得上这份认可，现在就是最好的时机。
So if you are on boardgamegeek or have a boardgamegeek account, or maybe you just want Anthony to win the acclaim that he so, so well deserves for his podcasting, now is the time.
赶紧去BoardGameGeek，给《BoardGameAnonymous》投一票吧。
On to boardgamer geek and nominate boardgamersanonymous.
这样他就会特别特别难过，觉得得奖后非得回来不可。
And this way, he feels tremendously, tremendously sad and wants to come back after winning the award.
他会说：‘等等，我真得奖了？’
He'd be like, and now I won the award?
没错，安东尼。
Yes, Anthony.
你现在可是拿下了金 Geek 年度最佳播客奖了。
Now you've won the award for podcast of of the Golden Geek Award.
所以嘛，就是这样。
So, yeah.
赶紧去 BoardGameGeek，给金 Geek 奖投一票，把 BoardgamersAnonymous 投上去，顺便也多投几款游戏吧，那儿好多不错的类别呢。
So show Anthony some love by going to boardgamegeek, going to the annual golden geek awards, and nominating boardgamersanonymous, and then nominate a whole bunch of games because there's a lot of great categories there.
BoardGameGeek 真是把桌游推广得特别到位。
And that's the great thing about boardgamegeek is it really promotes tabletop gaming so very well.
如果你最近玩过特别喜欢的游戏，现在正是时候去推荐一下，当然，播客也别忘了。
So if there's a game that you've loved to play and got to the table, now's a good time to let people know about it, and obviously, the podcast as well.
所以，别忘了在BGG上分享这个播客，也给点支持吧。
So, yeah, share the podcast and share the love on BGG.
好的。
Alright.
好了，咱们正式进入本期节目。
With that said, let's get on to the episode.
安东尼，咱们来抽几个新品预览吧。
Anthony, we're gonna roll for some previews.
巧了，咱们抽中了好几个关键命中。
And as fate would have it, we got some crits.
今天要来一波大范围推荐，有好多游戏想聊，因为Kickstarter上最近太热闹了。
We're gonna do some splash damage, and we got a lot of games we wanna talk about because there's a lot of stuff happening on Kickstarter.
你还记得Kickstarter吗，安东尼？
Remember Kickstarter, Anthony?
还记得以前它可是桌游圈的众筹平台吗？
Remember when that used to be a crowdfunding platform for tabletop games?
是的
Yeah.
怎么回事？
What happened?
我知道发生了什么，本来都结束了，但现在又回来了。
I mean, I know what happened, and it wasn't anymore, but now it's back.
那到底发生了什么？
And what happened?
这玩意儿怎么死而复生了？
What how did that come back from the dead?
它本来都消失了。
It was gone instead.
Game Found 把它盘活了。
Game found crushed it.
我知道。
I know.
是的。
Yeah.
就说你待会儿要聊的这个第一款游戏吧，我真没想到它居然没上Game Found，原因挺多的，最离谱的是，做这游戏的公司居然和游戏的拥有者在同一个地方，太巧了。
Like, the the first one you're gonna talk about here, I was shocked this was not on Game found for a few reasons, not the least of which is that the company that is producing the game is based in the same area as the people who own It's crazy.
他们是东欧的。
It's Eastern European.
所以我也说不准。
So, it's I don't know.
也许他们给的条件更优厚。
Maybe they're offering better terms.
也许他们修了点啥，或者纯粹就是巧合。
Maybe they fix some stuff or maybe it's just a coincidence.
我真的不清楚。
I I don't know.
但确实挺奇怪的。
But it's, yeah.
这周Kickstarter上可真是热闹非凡啊。
It's big big goings on on Kickstarter this week.
肯定有什么原因，毕竟一下子冒出这么多高规格的桌游项目，太不寻常了。
It's gotta be something because for them to have so many so many big tabletop game projects at this level is is something.
就像你说的，幕后肯定有人谈了什么合作，或者给了更高的分成比例之类的。
So like you said, some somewhere behind the scenes, someone made a deal or someone gave a higher percentage or something.
对啊。
Right.
之前他们明明都快凉透了，可现在Kickstarter又突然火起来了。
Because they looked like they were dead and Betty, but now Kickstarter is back.
我们以前做预览的时候，比如‘Roll for Preview’，好几周都根本看不到任何新项目上线。
I mean, we would do previews, like, roll for preview, and there would be nothing literally nothing on Kickstarter for weeks.
没错。
True.
你直接去GameFound看看就知道了。
Like, just go to game found.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
现在一下子冒出来这四个，还有好几个也快上了。
And now all of a sudden, yeah, there's all four of these, and there's a couple more coming up too.
对啊。
Like Yes.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
行吧。
Alright.
首先第一个是《赛博朋克》卡牌游戏的官方版——也不知道他们干嘛非得加个‘官方’。
Well, first up is the official I don't know why they have to say the official, but the official Cyberpunk Trading Card Game.
组好你的队伍，赢得你的传奇。
Build your crew, earn your legend.
简单说，这就是个集换式卡牌游戏。
So basically, this is a TCG.
这是一款集换式卡牌游戏。
This is a trading card game.
等你听到这期节目时，这个众筹活动就已经在2026年4月17日星期五结束了。
And by the time you listen to this episode, this campaign will wrap up on Friday, 04/17/2026.
我想安东尼，他们还真想出了办法，把这么多不搭调的东西给串起来了——赛博朋克，这本身就是一个超棒的动画，也是一款超棒的电子游戏。
And I I guess they've they have found a way, Anthony, to actually, in fact, put all these odd elements together, Cyberpunk, which is a pretty amazing anime, a pretty amazing video game.
然后有人特别聪明，直接说：嘿，要不咱们把它做成个集换式卡牌游戏吧？
And then then somebody was very smart and was like, hey, what if you made that a TCG?
于是他们把所有跟卡牌游戏相关的东西全塞进众筹里了，包括那些独家特别赠品、卡套、盒子啥的。
And then you put everything in the campaign that's related to a TCG, including all of the unique special promos and the sleeves and the boxes.
这游戏还配了骰子，就是那种二十面的D20，全都有。
And this game has dice, d twenties, as that goes along with it.
对啊。
Mhmm.
结果现在众筹金额已经突破两千万美元了。
And then it turns out that currently, it's at over $20,000,000.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
目前这已经是史上筹款金额最高的Kickstarter桌游项目了，领先第二名整整五百万美元，毕竟这可是个RPG游戏啊，没错。
So it's the most successful Kickstarter game campaign ever at this point by, like, $5,000,000 because the cost of your RPG yeah, exactly.
我们录这期节目的时候，离活动结束还剩三天。
There's three days left when we're recording this.
挺有意思的，简直是个闭环了。
It's it's funny because it's kinda full circle.
当初的《赛博朋克》本来就是个桌面角色扮演游戏，后来的电子游戏也是基于这个TTRPG做的，而动画又是从电子游戏衍生出来的。
The original Cyberpunk was an RPG, a tabletop RPG, and that that's what the video game was based on is this old TTRPGs and then the anime is based on the video game.
现在呢，又搞出个卡牌游戏，说不清是基于啥，全都有，也全都没有。
And now we're getting a TCG based on, I don't know, something, all of it, none of it.
它确实抓住了电子游戏的那种氛围，官网页面上还有CD Projekt Red的官方认证标志——他们可是电子游戏的开发商，估计大部分粉丝都是冲着他们来的。
It does seem to take the vibe from the video game and it does there is a badge on the the page for CD Project Red who developed the video game And probably, it's where a lot of this fandom is coming from.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，天哪，这太疯狂了。
But, hoo boy, it's crazy.
太多了。
It's so much.
这里面有很多投机者。
And there's a lot of speculators in here.
他们有八千美元的赞助档位。
They have $8,000 pledge levels.
对。
Yes.
我觉得大概有四到五个这样的档位，每个档位一百人左右。
I think there's four of them, maybe five of them with a 100 people each.
光是这些档位，每个就贡献了八十万美金。
That's $800,000 just for each of those.
这还只是为了拿到初始套装的几箱补给品呢。
And that's just to get, like, cases of boosters of the initial set.
对啊。
Mhmm.
不管是游戏店还是投机者，只要觉得这款集换式卡牌能火，大家就会砸钱，结果就变成这样了。
So whether those are game stores or speculators or whatever, but if people think a TCG is gonna be successful, they're gonna spend the money and then you get this.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yes.
是啊。
Yeah.
我觉得这真是个难得的机会，花八千块，一下子啥都拿到了。
And I think this is one of those rare opportunities where you get literally everything all at once, but $8,000 worth.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
这是在一款还没上线、而TCG市场已经饱和的游戏上做TCG周边。
Of TCG stuff for a game that is not out there being played in a very saturated TCG market.
对。
Mhmm.
尤其是万智牌在IP扩张上实在太过头了。
Especially where Magic has kind of overly expanded as far as their IPs are concerned.
所以，真心希望这事儿能大获成功。
So, I mean, by all means, I hope this does amazing.
你想想，众筹金额都快到两千一百万美元了。
I mean, the fact that it's almost it's almost at $21,000,000.
这么多人砸了这么多钱进去。
I mean, lot of people have put a lot of money into it.
所以对所有支持的人，我真心祝愿它成功。
So, for everyone out there, yes, I hope.
因为说到底，TCG这玩意儿本身就挺怪的。
Because again, TCGs is such a weird thing.
我的意思是，咱们再回溯到九十年代，安东尼，那时候什么东西都出集换式卡牌游戏。
I mean, again, we go back to the nineties, Anthony, when everything was a TCG.
真的有种回到九十年代的感觉。
It feels like the nineties.
不过现在这行赚钱比九十年代多太多了。
I mean, but more because there's more money in it right now than there ever was in the nineties.
是的。
Yeah.
但说实话，从九五年到九九年，我那时候差不多玩了十款不同的卡牌游戏。
But yeah, like, '95 through '99, it was so I I played like 10 of them.
对啊。
Yes.
突然就冒出一个《星际迷航》的卡牌游戏。
It was just like, oh, now there's a Star Trek one.
接着又来一个《星球大战》的。
Now there's a Star Wars one.
这个挺酷的。
Oh, this one's cool.
里面有巫师，但不是魔法题材。
It's got wizards, but it's not magic.
就是那种黑暗巫师风格。
It's like dark wizards.
这个是机器人题材的。
This one's this one's robots.
是啊。
Yeah.
我的意思是，他们啥都出过卡牌游戏。
I mean, they made a TCG of everything.
说真的，这都成老梗了。
I mean, that's I mean, there's a there's a running gag.
你挨个儿看过去就能明白。
Go down the row and just figure out.
他们搞了个随机主题，还真出了个集换式卡牌游戏。
They got a random theme, and there was a TCG made about it Mhmm.
就在某个地方。
Somewhere.
所以嘛。
So yeah.
对啊。
Yeah.
天哪。
Wow.
这花的钱可真不少。
It's a lot of money.
是啊。
Yeah.
祝你好运吧。
I mean, good luck.
我真的希望这款游戏能特别棒。
I I really hope that this game is fantastic.
要是能狠狠地超越其他那些集换式卡牌游戏就好了。
It'd be to see, this kind of blow out some of the other TCGs out there.
挺想知道它到底能不能做到的。
And it'd be interesting to see if it can.
你懂的。
You know?
它真能冲上去吗？
Can it can it actually rank up?
说到底，集换式卡牌游戏好不好，关键看能不能在游戏店里火起来。
Because at the end of the day, a TCG, a CCG is only as good as its opportunity be played at a game store.
对。
Mhmm.
现在整个游戏店里的CCG市场，简直挤得水泄不通。
And the game store market for all the CCGs right now is incredibly packed.
现在任何一家附近的桌游店都忙得不可开交，根本忙不过来这么多游戏。
Mean, I any friendly local game store right now is just, like, bursting at the seams trying to host all these games right now.
没错。
Right.
是啊。
Yeah.
而且现在可不只是《万智牌》这么火。
And it's not even just like magic now.
是《万智牌》，但我更想玩《中土世界》版的。
It's like magic, but I wanna play Lord Middle Earth magic.
对。
Yes.
或者我想玩《漫威》版的。
Or I wanna play Marvel magic.
对啊。
Mhmm.
想把范围缩小一点真不容易。
It's it's hard to kinda narrow the scope.
我手里一堆《最终幻想》的卡，本来是当魔法牌用的。
Like, got a bunch of Final Fantasy cards for magic.
我其实挺想玩的，但我不想玩那种传统意义上的魔法牌游戏。
And I'm like, I would go to do that actually, but I don't wanna play magic magic.
我就想玩《最终幻想》那种魔法牌。
I just wanna play Final Fantasy magic.
对。
Yes.
再加上《海贼王》《星球大战》《宝可梦》，还有那些经典IP，全挤一块儿了。
And then you've got your One Pieces and your Star Wars and your Pokemon and your like all the classics on top of everything else.
现在还不断有新的冒出来。
And now we're getting new ones.
而且现在《血色》也特别火。
And it's Blood is very big now too.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
那个确实挺有名的
That's one that's out there.
是啊
Yeah.
嗯，确实如此
I mean, yeah.
祝你好运
Good luck.
我觉得这个IP挺酷的
I think it's a cool IP.
它算不上我最喜欢的东西，但我觉得我们都觉得反派还行。
It's not it's not like my favorite thing in the world, but I I think we both said the enemy is okay.
那挺好。
That's good.
是的。
Yeah.
游戏本身确实很棒，不过我没玩完全部内容。
The the video game is is very good, but I haven't played all the way through it.
所以我也说不上更多了。
So I can't, like, speak to that further.
但没错，这游戏氛围确实很酷。
But, yeah, it's it's cool vibe.
我一直觉得夜之城的氛围特别棒。
I always liked, Night City is a cool vibe.
没错。
Absolutely.
所以我们得盯着点，看看它到底会在哪儿、什么时候上线，以及最终会怎么落地。
So we'll we'll keep an eye on that as far as where, I guess, where and when it actually lands and how it lands out there in the world.
如果卖得好，那当然再好不过。
Because if it does well, again, great.
但如果卖得差，那可能就成了史上最大的烂摊子——你上哪儿去玩它？
If it doesn't, this could be, the biggest bust of all time because where are you gonna get to play it?
没错。
I mean Right.
游戏商店正在一个接一个地关门。
Game stores are shrinking left and right.
这事儿行业一直没解决，到现在还是个大问题。
They that's still something the industry has to address, and they have not.
对。
Right.
是啊。
Yeah.
我们需要第三空间，不然这些游戏根本没人玩。
We need we need the third spaces or these games don't get played.
这话说得一点都没错。
It's a 100% true.
行吧。
Alright.
接下来快速提一下另一个扩展包。
Next up is another expansion just we wanna mention very quickly.
《超越极限》。
Beyond the Reach.
重返Arcs世界，这次扩展包充满了全新的策略选择和狡猾的角色，Anthony。
Return to the world of Arcs with a set of expansions brimming with new strategic options and devious characters, Anthony.
狡猾。
Devious.
这个众筹活动将在4月28日星期二结束。
This this campaign will wrap up on Tuesday, April 28.
安东尼，你玩过《Arcs》吧？
Anthony, you have played Arcs, have you not?
跟你玩过。
I have with you.
太棒了。
Yay.
我们当时搞了个
We did a
和威尔一起的活动。
thing with Will.
还记得我们那次玩得挺棒的吗？
Remember we did it well?
跟威尔一起。
With Will.
他居然还挺喜欢，真是怪了。
And he liked it, which was weird.
当那个玩RPG的人说我不想玩桌游的时候，总是挺奇怪的。
It's always weird when the RPG guy's like, I don't wanna play board games.
要不这样吧？
Like, how about this?
他说：‘这个我还真喜欢。’
He's like, I do like this.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但我记得，我们教到一半的时候，
But, like, I remember because we got halfway through the teaching.
他说：‘我要去跳楼了。’
He's like, I'm going to go jump off of a building.
这太糟了。
This is terrible.
我当时就说，别啊。
And I was like, no.
别啊。
No.
继续吧。
Keep going.
后来我们就真玩起来了。
And then he we got into it.
其实还挺好的。
It was fine.
他其实能稍微入戏一点，游戏玩得挺棒的。
He could role play a little bit, and it was it was a good game.
不是，我是说。
No.
这游戏挺有意思的。
It's a fun game.
就是那种区域控制的元素。
Like, got the area control elements.
你得不断调动各种资源。
You move stuff around.
这游戏挺冷门的，像转圈圈一样。
It's a cold whirly game.
两边的设定完全不对称。
It's very asymmetrical.
大家总开玩笑说这游戏有跟牌机制，但实际上呢——
People joke about how there's like trick taking in there, but it's kind of
说实话，确实有。
I mean, there is.
哪有那回事。
Not really.
那是个机制没错，但根本算不上什么游戏。
It there it's a mechanic, but it's not It's a a game.
不是。
No.
关键是你要学会在合适的时机布局，好达成不同的目标。
And it's it's it's all about kind of setting yourself up to be able to achieve these different goals at certain times.
对吧？
Right?
这才是游戏的核心。
That's the core game.
战役模式在这基础上加了十几层内容，带你经历一场宏大的银河战役。
The campaign adds a dozen layers on top of that and guides you through, like, this big galactic campaign.
我从来没机会玩完那个模式。
I never had a chance to play through that.
我其实很想玩。
I wanted to.
我之前一直留着这游戏。
I had it for a while.
我后来确实把游戏转手了，因为搁那儿挺久，一直没玩。
I did pass it on at some point just because I'd had it for a while and hadn't played it.
所以这次主要是加了更多战役内容。
So this is more campaign.
给那些要么根本找不到原版游戏的人，要么就是玩过原版战役、还想看更多剧情的人。
For people who either a, could never find the original games or b, was like, I played that campaign, I want more campaign.
现在，你有更多战役可玩了。
Now you have more campaign.
所以说，这挺好的。
So that's I mean, good.
多点内容总没错。
It's more stuff.
对啊。
Mhmm.
你知道吗，Whirly后来独立了。
People, you know, and it's, you know, Whirly went independent.
所以现在这是科尔·惠利本人直接做的，不再是
So this is now Cole Whirly directly, not
对
Mhmm.
通过Leader Games了。
Through leader games anymore.
所以这支持肯定不只是一个小发行商那么简单。
So definitely support, like, is not just a small publisher.
这根本就是个超小的独立发行商。
It's a small small publisher.
所以
So
我们当然要尽全力支持科尔。
we could definitely support Cole as best we can.
即使这游戏现在支持第五个玩家了，你还会支持他吗？
Are you gonna support him even though this allows for a fifth player?
是这样的。
So here's the thing.
我特别喜欢Cole，他出的新游戏我都会支持，之前我就支持过《Arcs》的众筹。
I love Cole, and I will back any new game that comes I backed the Arcs campaign.
我当时可期待了。
I was very excited about it.
当然了。
Sure.
这游戏我真的挺喜欢的。
I liked the game a lot.
玩起来特别难凑齐人，campaign就更别提了，根本组不了局。
I found it very difficult to get played and the campaign even more difficult.
我就是怎么都拉不到一帮人一起玩。
I just couldn't lock down a group for it.
对啊。
Like Sure.
你得凑齐人，你知道吧，战役就三局，但加起来得九个小时，我实在没搞定。
You needed and it's, you know, it's only three gameplays as a campaign, but that's nine hours and I just couldn't make it happen.
所以后来我确实把这游戏卖了。
So I I did sell the game at a certain point.
我记得我最初评测时，应该是推荐入手的。
And I know my initial review, I think I gave it a buy.
我现在还是这么觉得。
And I I kinda stick by that.
我真的很喜欢这游戏，但就是没觉得非得自己留着。
I did really enjoy it, but it's just a game I didn't feel the need to own personally.
对。
Sure.
我最近在慢慢精简我的收藏。
As I kind of downsize my collection a little bit.
所以这次我不准备支持了，毕竟基础版都没了，要支持就得全盘来。
So I'm not gonna back this because I don't have the base game anymore and I'd have to back everything.
结果就是我根本没玩起来。
And it just wasn't gonna get it played.
不过如果你在费城附近，又支持了这个项目，记得告诉我。
However, if you're in the Philadelphia area and you back this, let me know.
我很想玩一玩。
I would like to play.
我喜欢这个扩展包的点在于，它引入了这些新的褪色领袖，确实挺棒的。
Well, I I I like the idea of this expansion because one of the things it does is the new faded leaders here Mhmm.
这些领袖能带来更鲜明的阵营差异，因为他们真的有能改变战局的能力。
Actually bring more asymmetric gameplay to that particular faction because the leaders actually do something that's somewhat game breaking.
我当初玩原版的时候就觉得，各个阵营能做的事太雷同了。
And I I felt like when I played the game originally, there just wasn't enough difference as far as what you could do.
你当然可以招募一些领袖，但说到底，这些领袖也没啥特别的，区别太小了。
And, yeah, you could recruit some leaders and you can leaders and stuff, but it it really just wasn't special or different enough.
没错。
Yeah.
所以我挺喜欢这个设计的，它们真的会改变游戏体验。
So I I generally like the idea that these actually alter the game somewhat.
这让你有种真正的感觉，说真的，让我想起马可·波罗那款游戏。
It gives you ace you know, a real you know, it reminds me of, like, Marco Polo.
对，就是这样。
Like Mhmm.
游戏机制本身是一回事，但那些马可·波罗角色呢，个个都把规则玩出花儿来了。
There's the the game mechanic, and then their Marco Polo characters are just like, and all of them break it.
但不是那种破坏平衡的坏方式。
Not in a bad way.
大家都差不多这么搞，完全不影响游戏的流畅性。
Like, all break with rather equally, and it doesn't really hurt the gameplay.
所以我特别喜欢这个点。
So I like that idea.
当然，还有新的扩展模块。
And then, of course, there's new expansion modules.
所以如果你想多做点战役内容，那当然也可以多做点。
So if you wanted to do more campaign stuff, I guess you could do more campaign stuff.
所以……
So
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
挺酷的。
It's cool.
一切都挺好。
It's all good.
对我来说，第一款游戏最棒的部分，是我没玩过那个‘长矛之刃’，嗯……
Like, the best part of that first game for me, because I didn't play the the Blade of Reach Mhmm.
是那个领袖与传说扩展包。
Was the leaders in lore expansion.
牌不多，但你至少得用领袖牌来玩。
Small little deck of cards, but it you gotta play with the leaders at least.
最有趣的地方就在这儿。
And that that was the most interesting part.
据各方面说，战役把这玩意儿推到了极致。
And by all accounts, the campaign takes that to an 11.
确实如此。
So It's true.
明白了。
Alright.
又一个战役，又一个扩展内容。
Another campaign that's, another expansion here.
《火力全开：赢得权威》。
Barrage: Earned Authority.
玩家创意遇上行业权威。
Player creativity meets industry prestige.
16款由你设计、源自传奇的XO卡牌。
16 XOs designed by you, inspired by legends.
你在桌面上赢得的权威。
Authority you earn at the table.
所以，这款游戏也是你靠自己赢来的，安东尼，对吧？
So, this is another game you've earned you you own, Anthony.
没错吧？
Right?
是《Barrage》吗？
Barrage?
或者曾经叫过《And is》？
Or at one point And is.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，我第一次玩的时候特别讨厌，因为那教练简直
Famously, I hated it the first time we played it because it was
我可太喜欢了。
I loved it.
太棒了。
It's great.
那是我见过最差的教练了。
It was one of the worst teachers I've ever had.
但我赢了那局。
I won that game.
怪他。
His fault.
不怪他。
Not his fault.
他根本就不该教这个游戏。
He shouldn't have been teaching that game at all.
别人呢，压根没时间去学它。
Someone else, like, didn't didn't have the time to learn it.
等我真正学会了怎么玩，轮子也正常了，桌上所有设置都对了，才发现这游戏其实挺有意思的。
When I finally learned how to play the game properly and I had wheels that worked and everything was correct at the table, turned out I like the game quite a bit.
当然。
Sure.
我到现在还留着当年在Kickstarter上支持的那套原版。
I do still have my copy that I backed on Kickstarter back in the day.
我有第一个扩展包，还有一个小一点的扩展。
I have the first expansion and I maybe one of the smaller expansions.
后面那几个我没再支持了。
I've not backed the last couple.
明白了。
Gotcha.
这个嘛，显然你们会出新的XO卡。
Well, this is another one which, obviously, you're you're gonna have new XOs.
倒也不是新出什么，我们刚聊过Arcs，就是那种新的领袖类卡片。
No new I guess, saying we just talked about Arcs, like new basically leader kind of cards.
对。
Mhmm.
这些卡牌显然是由粉丝们设计的。
And, obviously, these were designed by fans out there.
我们这儿看到的，都是游戏设计师。
And basically, what we're looking at here is game designers.
比如乌韦·罗森伯格、菲尔·沃克·哈丁、马丁·华莱士、大卫·图尔西，他们每个人都有专属的玩家能力——虽然不至于打破平衡，但能让你自己搭的引擎有明显加成。
So Uwe Rosenberg, Phil Walker Harding, Martin Wallace, David Turci, they all have their own player special abilities that, again, not game breaking necessarily, but do give you a significant boost in your particular engine that you're putting together.
我觉得这个点子挺棒的。
So, I like that idea.
尤其是玩久了以后，有点这种小变化，总是挺好的。
It's always it's always good to have something, especially when you when you kinda play the game out a little bit, to have something to that end.
那它们平衡吗？
Now, are they as well balanced?
我不确定。
I don't know.
连Barrage自己都不一定知道，不过总有人会试出来的。
I don't even know if Barrage knows, but I guess someone will find out.
这些能力听起来有些太强了。
Some of these sound pretty game breaking.
确实挺强的。
They do.
如果它们真能平衡或者持平就太有意思了，毕竟这游戏太复杂，全靠微妙的平衡支撑。
Interesting if they are balanced or tied because it's such a complicated game and it turns on such a fine balance.
难度和操作之间的那个关键点，简直细到极致。
Like, the fulcrum of difficulty to, like, execution is so tight.
真想看看它们实际玩起来效果怎么样。
It'd be interesting to see how they work.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得在《Barrage 2》里，大部分玩法其实不是我说的那样。
And I think with Barrage two is most of the game is not is not really I will put this way.
游戏的大部分内容，其实是你从别人的行为、不作为、失误，或者特定情境下的建筑里获益。
Most of the game is really you benefiting from other people's actions or inactions or mistakes or, you know, buildings in certain circumstances.
所以如果你的特殊角色能力能更好地修正或应对这些情况，就可能打乱整体的游戏风格。
So if your special player ability allows you to kind of correct or manage that better, then it might mess with the overall play style.
对。
Mhmm.
我的意思是，谁也说不准。
I mean, again, you never know.
因为有时候，某个单独的角色能力可能并不破环平衡，但某些组合起来就可能出问题。
Because, again, one of those situations is, like, a play an individual player power may not be broken, but certain combinations might be problematic.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我猜等这游戏上市，大家玩过一阵子后，会出一些修正说明。
I I would imagine we'll get some errata after this comes out and people get a chance to play it a bit.
对。
Yeah.
而且他们家Cranial Creations的整个产品线也都放在这儿了。
And they also have seemingly Cranial Creations, their entire catalog on here.
所以如果你还想支持他们之前出的其他东西，这次众筹也能一起支持。
So if you wanted to back anything else that they've previously put out, you can do that on this campaign too.
不错。
Cool.
好吧。
So alright.
最后呢，还有另一款游戏的扩展包，那款游戏本身已经啥扩展都有了。
And then finally, another expansion for another game that has all the expansions.
《Clinic Deluxe》，这是维亚尔推出的豪华大盒版。
Clinic Deluxe, the big box by Viard.
《Clinic Deluxe》豪华大盒版，能把基础版到《911扩展》的所有组件都装得下。
Clinic Clinic Deluxe, the big box, fits all the components from the base game to the nine one one expansion.
你想要这个吗？
You wanted it?
不要。
Uh-uh.
现在已经在
It's now on
Kickstarter上开了。
Kickstarter for you.
天哪。
Oh, man.
你真想要这个？
Did you want this?
你问过这个吗？
Did you ask for that?
这事儿是你干的吧。
This was you.
这完全是你的主意。
This was your doing.
对吧？
Right?
我没干这事儿。
I did not do this.
没有。
No.
真不是我干的。
I did not do this.
我几个月来一直在收这些邮件。
I've been getting the emails for months.
好几次投票我都参与了，后来我就想，算了。
There was several several polls asked and I was like, you know what?
我玩到第五个扩展包，可能第六个就停了。
I stopped after the fifth expansion, maybe the sixth.
具体是哪个我真记不清了。
I don't remember exactly which one I stopped at.
是的。
Yeah.
我专门有一整层架子放这些诊所扩展包。
I have an entire shelf just with clinic expansions.
我也是。
Same.
对。
Mhmm.
我都想不出得有多大一个盒子才能装得下所有这些东西。
I don't know how how big this box would need to be to fit everything in it.
东西可真多
There's a lot
一大堆呢。
of stuff.
可不是嘛。
There is.
有些扩展包里东西没多少，但有些还挺充实的。
Like, some of these expansion boxes don't have much in them, but some have a decent amount.
当然了。
And Sure.
不管怎么说，一共有十三个。
Regardless of that, there are 13 of them.
对啊。
Yes.
太离谱了。
It's crazy.
我也不清楚。
I don't know.
说白了，你根本不可能把所有这些东西都玩一遍。
Like, so at a certain point, you're never gonna play all this.
这游戏现在已经变成504了，真的。
It's it feels like the game has morphed into five zero four Yes.
你得有个超大的资料库才行，说不定还真有这种东西。
Where you would need a just a giant catalog, which might even exist.
我觉得他可能就是干了这么件事：你挨个儿翻那些扩展包，挑出能搭在一起的组合，自己拼出一个新游戏。
I think maybe he made that, where you go through and you find combinations of the different expansions that actually work together and you create your own game.
可这种玩法，我们到底要玩多少次才算数啊？
And how many times are we gonna play this game where that actually matters?
东西实在太多了。
It's so much stuff.
对啊，他得出个玩家指南，因为扩展包实在太多了。
It's the yeah, like a player guide he had to come out with because he had so many expansions.
但我同意。
But I agree.
我也同意，因为我觉得这些大盒装游戏的问题在于，尤其是这个版本的包装方式，它根本没用那种传统公司常用的分隔内衬。
And I also agree because I think with these big boxes, the problem is, especially with the way this one's kind of formulated, it's not built with one of, like, the, I guess, the other company's traditional, how would you say it, inserts.
这 basically 就是把一堆塑料件随便模压一下，堆在一起罢了。
This is kind of just like plastic, plastic that they kind of molded and put put out there together.
每次打开这种装满扩展内容的大盒子，像以前那种女王版，我都搞不清哪个配件该配哪个。
Sometimes when you open these big boxes with all the expansion stuff in it, like a queen box from back in the day, it's like, I don't know which what goes with what.
其实吧，有时候分开装反而更好，至少能分得清。
There's just two again, like, having them sometimes in the separate boxes are better because it's like, okay, cool.
我们就玩这个扩展包好了。
We'll play with this expansion
对。
Yeah.
而不是把所有扩展包全塞进一个盒子里。
Instead of, like, all the expansions being in the same box.
你就会想，哦，这个该配这个。
You're like, well, this goes with this.
是吗？
Does it?
我也不确定。
I don't know.
我都记不清是哪个扩展包里的了。
I don't remember which expansion it was with.
说实话，这么多系列都让我接受了大盒子，我也在这节目里吐槽过好多次了，当然记得这事儿。
I mean, enough of these campaigns have talked me into the big boxes and I've complained about it enough on this show Sure.
一提到这事儿，我就想起来了。
That I I remembered when it came up.
我心想，哎，这玩意儿还挺带感的——不对，其实我不喜欢。
I'm like, oh, I like this stuff like, no, I don't.
我真的不喜欢这种东西。
No, I don't like stuff like this.
是的
Yeah.
我确实支持这种东西
I back stuff like this.
我懂
I get it.
我把所有东西都塞进大盒子，结果发现根本没法带着它出门了
I move everything into the big box and then realize I can't leave the house with it ever again.
对啊
Sure.
所以啊，不行，真的不行
So it's like, no, no.
我单独把诊所放在主盒子里，这玩意儿是我最可能拿出来的，因为我要教新人
I have clinic by itself in the main box and that is the most likely thing I am to play because I'm teaching the new people.
其他那些东西我一概不加
I'm not adding any of the other stuff.
如果我要加一堆别的东西，那多半是请人来家里玩，那样就没事了。
If I'm adding a bunch of other stuff, I'm probably inviting people over and then it's fine.
所以啊。
So
当然。
Sure.
理想情况下，我会买这个，就为了凑齐所有扩展包，但我后来也不再支持新扩展了，因为我自己根本没时间玩其他扩展。
Again, in a perfect world, I would get this just because this and and to complete the collection of all the expansions, but I stopped backing the expansions as well just because I wasn't getting any other expansions to the table.
是的。
Yeah.
我特别喜欢《诊所豪华版》，但对很多人来说，这游戏太复杂了，机制太多了。
And I really like Clinic Deluxe a lot, but it is a it is a dense game for a lot of people because it incorporates a lot of different mechanics.
对。
Mhmm.
这些东西全塞进脑子里，确实挺吃力的。
And that's a lot for people to hold into their head.
所以你真得找一群特别懂行的人来玩，因为这游戏的空间推理对很多人来说太难了，再加上一堆欧洲风机制。
So you really have to find a specialized group to play this just because the the some of the spatial reasoning is very difficult for people, and then you have a lot of euro elements to it.
还得加上运气成分在里面。
Then you have to impress your luck elements to it.
对。
Mhmm.
而且你往游戏里加的其他元素越多，整个系统就越复杂，越难掌控。
And then depending on what other elements you put into the game, it kind of throws throws it into an additional loop.
没错。
So Right.
你得同时盯着时间、声望和钱，还得应付一波又一波的僵尸。
You're tracking time and reputation and money all at the same time against the zombies and zombies.
对吧？
Right?
每加一个扩展模块，就多一层麻烦。
And every expansion module you add is another wrinkle.
对，没错。
So like Yeah.
如果你有五个扩展模块，桌上的人脑子直接要炸了。
If you have like five modules, all of a sudden the things people's brains are exploding at the table.
你真得找对一群人才行。
It's it's you you need the right group.
没错。
You do.
但我身边没人愿意玩13遍《Clinic》。
And I do not have a group who wants to play clinic 13 times.
所以……
So
如果你真想入手，到2026年4月30号之前都来得及支持。
Well, you have until 04/30/2026 to back this if you're looking for it.
再说一遍，《Clinic Deluxe》，我们都评测过。
Again, Clinic Deluxe, we both reviewed it.
这游戏真的特别棒。
It's a great game.
我们俩都强烈推荐。
We both recommend it.
值，都值得入手。
It's both a buy.
如果你有桌子、有玩家，能把这些都凑齐，而且你又真的喜欢这游戏，那我建议你把全套都收了。
If you have the table, if you have the people, if you have you know, if you could put all that stuff together and you do love this, I I would recommend getting all of these things.
不过话说回来，这扩展内容也太多了。
Again, but it's it the exp it's been a lot.
扩展包实在太多了。
It's a lot of expansions.
真的太多了。
It's a lot.
是啊。
Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
对。
Yeah.
我们这次的预览内容就这些了。
That's everything from our roll for preview.
接下来进入评测环节。
Now on to roll for review.
好的。
Alright.
我最近玩了一款游戏，真让我挺意外的。
So I have a game that I recently played, that I was surprised by.
我跟你说说为啥。
Tell you why.
意外？
Was surprised?
我确实挺意外的。
I was surprised.
后来我还觉得自己不该意外，因为十年前我根本不会觉得这有什么稀奇。
And then I felt bad that I was surprised because ten years ago, I would not have been surprised.
真的吗。
Wow.
这真是
This is
你是专业人士。
You're a professional.
这种事你本不该觉得惊讶的。
You should not be surprised by these things.
我知道我该对这些事麻木不仁了。
I know I should be jaded and cynical about all of it.
对。
Yes.
你肯定在那四个Kickstarter众筹项目里都听过了。
As you must heard through all four of those Kickstarter campaigns.
这是新的斯蒂芬·菲尔德游戏，但不是Queen公司出的——我到现在还是对那家公司的作品心存芥蒂。
So this is the new Stefan Feld game, but not from Queen games because I'm still jaded and cynical about those.
瞧瞧，这就对了。
There you go.
看到了吧？
See?
这款是Robin's Burger和Alea联合推出的，《Edora的德鲁伊》。
This one's from Robin's Burger and Alea, Druids of Edora.
这玩意儿看起来，活脱脱就是十年前会发布的游戏。
So this is this looks exactly like something that would have been released a decade ago.
包装盒是好看了一点，但里面的组件质量、版面设计，全都是2016年的味道——说来奇怪，我居然还挺怀念这种感觉的。一拿出来我就想：哎呀，太棒了，就是这个，这才是我想要的。
Slightly prettier box cover, but the quality of the components, the graphic design inside the box, it all gives very like strong 2016 vibes, which apparently I'm nostalgic for because if you pull it out and I'm like, oh, sweet, this is my, this is it, this is what I want.
我受够了那些又大又花哨、设计却越来越离谱的豪华大盒游戏了。
I'm tired of all the big fancy nonsensical big boxes that where they've made the games worse somehow.
这就是斯蒂芬·菲尔德的作品。
So this is Stefan Feld.
所以嘛，这游戏叫点萨利。
It's so therefore it is point sally.
你会用到一些骰子，得自己摆弄。
There are dice that you'll be manipulating or using.
主题嘛，有点抽象。
And the theme is a little abstracted.
所有你熟悉又爱的斯蒂芬·菲尔德游戏元素，这儿全都有。
So all the things you know and love about Stefan Feld games.
这次呢，你得在森林里走动，跟巨石、槲寄生还有其他德鲁伊森林里的小玩意儿互动，靠扔骰子来行动。
In this case, you are walking through forests and interacting with monoliths and mistletoe and various other pieces and bits of the Druidic forests as you place out your action dice to take various actions.
规则是这样的：游戏开始时你有13颗骰子。
And so how this works is you have 13 dice at the beginning of the game.
先把这13颗全扔出去。
You roll all 13 of them.
不管掷出什么点数，这些骰子的数值在整个游戏中就固定了。
Whatever faces they land on, that is the value of those dice for the rest of the game.
哇哦。
Wow.
之后你就再也不会掷它们了。
You've never rolled them again.
那为什么还叫骰子呢？
So why are they dice?
因为得让结果随机嘛。
Because they need to be randomized.
对吧？
Right?
你先挑四个出来用，剩下的九个先放一边，以后得靠其他行动再把它们拿回来。
You take four of those, you put the other nine aside, you need to pick those up later through other actions.
这些就是你走遍森林、触发各种行动时能用的工具。
And now these are the things that you can use to activate the action spaces as you move around the forest.
所以你要让你的小人穿过这片森林。
So you're gonna move your meeple through the forest.
每移动一格，都要消耗补给。
You have to pay provisions for every spot you move.
每个空地都算一笔，如果你穿过森林的阴暗区域，还得再加一笔。
So you need every single clearing you go through costs one, and then if you cross through a dark part of the forest, that's another one.
另外，你还得支付骰子点数对应的代价。
Plus you have to pay the value of the dive face.
如果你开局掷出很高的点数，其实马上就能意识到——我是在游戏进行到一半才明白的，一开始根本不知道——你得想办法多搞点补给。
So if you roll really high at the beginning of the game, you know immediately, which I learned about halfway through the game, so I did not know immediately, but I learned it, that you need to have a way to get a lot of provisions.
你得重点盯着补给，因为把骰子放出去的代价会越来越高。
You have to focus on that because it's gonna be more expensive to place your dice out.
不过好处也不少，这挺好的。
There are benefits to it, which is great.
后面有些方法可以调整骰子，比如降低点数，但那些都是后话了。
And there are some ways to mitigate the dice with, like, to change their values to make them lower, but that stuff comes later.
所以你真的得搞到足够的补给，对吧？
So you really need provisions, right?
这就是你接下来要走的路。
That's way you're gonna go.
如果你开局掷得特别低，到处行动就会便宜很多。
If you roll really low, it's gonna be really cheap to go around and do stuff.
但到后面，你会错过好多分数。
But at the end, you're gonna miss out on a lot of points.
所以你最好想办法在游戏过程中就拿分，别光等着最后才搞。
So you really wanna find a way to get points in the game instead of waiting till the end of the game.
当你到达这些地点时，会有多个位置可以放你的骰子。
When you get to these locations, there'll be multiple worker placement spots for the dice.
每个玩家都有一个位置。
There's one for every player in the game.
所以这是个双人游戏。
So it's two player game.
每个空地有两个位置，三个人玩就是三个，以此类推。
There's two on each clearing, three player game's three, so on and so forth.
你得再付点数来使用骰子。
You have to, again, pay for the dice pips.
盖住一个位置，然后执行对应的行动。
You cover up one of the locations, and then you take that action.
游戏里有好多不同的行动，毕竟这是斯蒂芬·费尔的游戏嘛。
There are a bunch of different actions in the game because it's a Stefan Fell game.
对吧？
Right?
能干的事可多了，特别酷。
So all sorts of cool stuff you can do.
你可以在这条收割轨道上往前挪，解锁这些草药。
You can move up on this reaping track, which unlocks these herbs.
每凑齐一对草药，就把它们放到边板上。
For every pair of herbs you unlock, you place them on a sideboard.
它们会给你一个永久能力，整局游戏都能用，比如多拿点补给、把骰子加减两点，或者每次熄灭篝火时， bonus 能触发两次，各种各样的效果。
They unlocks one permanent ability for the rest of the game, which can be things like get extra provisions, raise or lower your die by two, get, you know, when you close out a campfire, activate the bonuses twice, various things.
但另一个草药你要翻面朝下。
But the other herb you flip face down.
所以每解锁两株草药，你得选一个用，另一个就永远弃用了。
So every time you unlock two herbs, you have to pick one to use and the other one you can never use.
所以你最多只能保留六个。
So the most you can have is six.
剩下的六个，你等于在说：这些我不要。
And the other six you're saying, I don't want.
这就有意思了，决策空间很丰富，而且游戏开始时都是随机发的。
So that's an interesting decision set and they're randomized at the beginning of the game.
每次配对的草药组合都不一样。
So which two you're pairing is always different.
对。
Sure.
你得把那些石碑摆出来。
You're gonna place out monoliths.
这些石碑会根据你掷出的点数提供各种加成。
Those give you various bonuses based on the die face.
你得放这些不同的道具。
You're placing out these different pieces.
有时候你就是单纯捡东西。
Sometimes you're just picking stuff up.
你还在拼一个护身符，收集这些宝石，然后能激活一定次数。
There's a amulet that you're building where you take these gemstones, and then you activate them a certain number of times.
这些宝石能帮你触发其他行动。
And so those can give you other pieces of actions.
各种各样的机制，挺丰富的。
It's a bunch of different stuff.
这是施特凡·菲尔德的游戏，你懂的，对吧？
It's Stefan Feld, you know the drill, right?
随着你填满空地，就会开始修路。
As you fill in the the clearings, you're gonna start building paths.
角落里有一些小塑料片，颜色各不相同。
And so there are these little plastic pieces in the various corners.
如果你用骰子连起两个同色的标记，就能把它们拿走，根据连接的骰子数量得分，如果还有额外奖励，还能再拿一个。
If you connect two of them that are the same color with a path of your dice, you get to take them off, score points for all the dice that connect them, and then take a bonus if the bonus is still available.
这么玩能拿不少分，但得花点时间才能凑齐。
So could score a lot of points doing that, but it takes a little while to get it done.
你还可以围住露营地。
You can also surround campsites.
要是你把骰子绕露营地一圈，就能拿走所有奖励，然后这块地方就被占了，别人没法再用了。
If you have dice all all around the campsite, you get all the bonuses at that campsite, and then it's covered up so no one else can do it.
就这么一步步发展下去。
And it it just kind of builds from there.
地图上哪儿都能去，没死角。
There's no space on the map you can't go to.
你要是去那儿，对手反而能拿分。
Your opponents will just get points if you go there.
所以如果你想去个地方，但已经有三个人在那儿了，每人就能拿两分。
So if you wanna go somewhere and three other people are already there, they each get two points.
不过你还是能去。
But you can still go there.
这不会让你多花任何代价。
It doesn't cost you any extra.
所以你其实不会被堵死。
So, as you're not really blocked off.
我说的‘工人放置’点，倒也不是真那样，就是别人可能把你想做的行动给占了。
So, you know, I say worker placement spots, not really like that, except maybe they took the actions you want.
还有一系列终局板块，你可以去拿，就是这些小石板。
There's a series of endgame tiles that you can pick up, these little stone tiles.
你得想办法把它们凑齐。
They basically you wanna complete them.
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