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嘿，你好。
Hey there.
我是Still Food Studio的怀斯·马歇尔。
This is Wythe Marshall from the Still Food Studio.
我们制作了一个名为《Why We Roll》的小播客，现在非常自豪能成为Poderation网络的一员。
We put together a little podcast called Why We Roll, and now we're very proud to be part of the network, Poderation.
所以，如果你正在收听Poderation的其他精彩节目，并且对桌面角色扮演游戏（TTRPG）感兴趣，那你的关注可能会被我们的节目吸引。
So if you're listening to one of Poderation's other great shows and you're interested in TTRPGs specifically, that's tabletop role playing games, you might be interested in our show.
《Why We Roll》专注于你如何制作TTRPG、是什么让它们有趣、可以用TTRPG讲述的不同类型的故事，甚至包括商业和实用建议方面。
Why We Roll is all about how you make TTRPGs, what makes them fun, different kinds of stories you can tell with TTRPGs, and even the business of the practical advice side.
所以，如果这些内容吸引你——无论你是主持人、想设计自己的原创游戏，还是对进入这个行业感兴趣——不妨去听听《Why We Roll》吧。
So if any of that sounds appealing, whether you're a GM, you wanna design your homebrew game, or you're interested in getting in the industry, why don't you head over to why we roll?
快来关注我们吧。
Check us out.
我们非常非常感谢你的支持，也继续创造精彩的内容吧。
We really, really appreciate it, and keep making awesome stuff.
欢迎收听《桌游匿名》，这是一档欢迎所有人加入桌游桌的播客。
Welcome to BoardGame is Anonymous, the podcast where everyone's welcome at the table.
但当然，和往常一样，没人知道轮到谁了。
But of course, as always, no one knows whose turn it is.
这是克里斯。
This is Chris.
嘿，这是安东尼。
Hey, and this is Anthony.
本期是第570期：起源游戏展提名奖项。
And this is episode 570 Origin Game Fair award nominees.
我们要感谢所有Patreon赞助者，正是你们的帮助让我们解锁了这一期全新内容。
We like to thank all our Patreon backers for helping us unlock a brand new episode, folks.
大家好。
Hey, everyone.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
我们非常高兴本周能有你在这里，而且安东尼本周也回来了，所以我们感觉特别棒。
We're so glad to have you here this week, and we have Anthony back this week, so we're really feeling it.
是的。
Yes.
我们在这儿。
We're here.
我们在进行中。
We're doing it.
我们在做一件事。
We're doing a thing.
这仍然是件大事。
It's still a thing.
这是一件事。
It's a thing.
对。
Yeah.
如果你要念一大串游戏奖项提名名单，那你需要我在场。
If you're gonna read a giant list of game award nominations, you need me here.
所以我们确实需要。
So We do.
我们需要我们的专家在这里，因为这是一份需要评估的清单。
We need we need our our our our specialists here because it's a list of things to evaluate.
还有谁比我们更适合评估这些清单和事物呢，安东尼？
And who better to evaluate a list of things than us, Anthony?
说实话。
Let's be honest.
没错。
Exactly.
我们就是评估事物、清单、事物清单以及清单类事物的人。
We're evaluator of things and lists and lists of things and things that are lists.
所以这完全在我们的职责范围内。
So it feels, it falls 100% to our wheel
擅长的领域。
wheelhouse.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
奇怪的是。
Weirdly enough.
所以如果你有一系列事物或事物的列表，请告诉我们，然后我们会逐一审查。
So if you have a list of things or things of a list, let us know, and then we'll go through those.
我们会告诉你那是一个事物列表，或列表中的一个事物。
And we'll let you know how that's a list of things or a thing in a list.
是的。
Yeah.
我们正在逐步接近了。
We're getting there.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种专业领域。
It's a specialty.
这是一种专业领域。
It's a specialty.
这非常小众。
It's it's very niche.
但如果你需要有人来做这件事，我们就能做。
But if you need you need some guys to do a thing, that's a thing we can do.
是的。
Yeah.
我们已经实际做过数百次了。
We have done it literally hundreds of times.
是的。
Yes.
所以我们将查看 Origins 游戏博览会的提名奖项。
So we will be, taking a look at the Origins Game Fair award nominations.
这是来自我们的朋友 Gamma 的。
This is from our friends at Gamma.
他们在六月举办了一个大型游戏展会。
They put together a big game convention in June.
这是时间最长的。
It's the longest one.
我觉得是五天左右，对吧？
I think five days, right, give or take?
或者至少他们说是五天左右？
Or at least they say five days, give or take?
他们说五天。
They say five days.
星期三有点像开玩笑。
Wednesday is kind of a bit of a joke.
但是的。
But Yeah.
当然。
Sure.
你可以进去。
You can go inside.
你可以进去。
You can go inside.
通常你可以进去，你通常能看到、听到或体验到的是他们的颁奖典礼，或者我不确定他们是否还在那里投票。
And one of the things typically you can go inside, and one of the things you typically can see or hear or experience is their awards ceremony slash I I don't know if they still do the voting there.
我们已经有几年没去了。
It's been a couple years since we've been there.
但以前呢，曾经有个人民选择奖。
But back in the day, there used to be, like, a People's Choice Awards.
我们还记得我们投过票吗？
And we remember we voted?
我们曾经看过那些东西吗？
We took a look at those things?
是的。
Yeah.
你会去到一个小角落。
You go, like, a little corner.
你回到那里。
You go back there.
你不能在那个空间里玩游戏，但可以摆弄一下它们。
You couldn't, like, play the games in that space, but you could fiddle with them.
对。
Yeah.
能看见它们。
Could see them.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
你拨弄一下，看看哪些被提名了，你觉得谁该赢？
You poke it around and see, like, this this is what's nominated and what do you think should win?
对。
Yeah.
那真的很有趣。
It was a lot of fun.
那是一段美好的时光。
It was it was a good time.
作为媒体成员，我们有机会参加了几场不同的颁奖典礼和展示活动。
And I and that we got to, as members of the media, go to a couple of those different presentations and awards ceremonies.
我们坐在媒体区的后面，但还是在那里。
We were in the media section in the back, but we were still there.
还记得吗？
Remember that?
有点尴尬的小
Awkward little
椅子，就在所有桌子后面。
chairs, like, behind all the tables.
是的。
Yeah.
那感觉特别奇怪，整个房间很大，而且我们都认识这些人，这些人也认识我们。
It was such a weird like, it's a gigantic room, and, like, we know all these people, and these people know us.
所以这一切都不是什么新鲜、不同或奇怪的事情。
So it's not like any of this is new or different or odd in any kind of way.
但那些狂热的Gamma粉丝、出版商和设计师们都坐在前面的圆桌旁，而后面则像一个巨大的酒吧。
But the people, the hardcore Gamma people, the publishers, the designers, are all in these nice round tables up front, and then it was like a giant bar.
然后，所有的媒体人员都坐在单人椅子上。
And then, like, all the media people were in, like, single chairs.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
在后面。
In the back.
就像是
Was like
是的。
Yeah.
我带着我的笔记本电脑，心想，我想我不能用它了。
I was like, have my laptop, and I'm like, I guess I can't use this.
他们没给我们桌子，所以是的。
They didn't give us a table, so Yeah.
我要从我的
I'm gonna tweet from my
我记得那一年我们确实这么做了。
I remember we did that that year.
我的意思是，那挺有趣的。
I mean, it it was fun.
那真的很有趣。
It was fun.
只是有点奇怪。
It was just odd.
那纯粹是一种奇怪的、奇怪的社会阶层分隔情况。
It was just an odd, weird social class separator kind of situation.
而且，如果我没记错的话，那些桌子很多都没坐满。
And again, lot of those tables weren't even full, if I think if I remember correctly too.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这很有趣。
That's funny.
但你知道，我们得走了。
But, you know, we got to go.
我想，这是一次有趣的经历。
It was it was an interesting experience, I guess.
确实是。
It was.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得有些年份，他们更多地邀请了媒体参与。
And it it some some I think some years it was we were they involved the media more.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得随着时间推移，后来稍微少了一些。
And I think over the years a little bit less as time went on.
但这确实是一个很好的机会，可以看看外面正在发生的各种精彩游戏。
But, it's a good opportunity to see all the great games that are happening out there.
我们在一月初就讨论过这份清单的大部分内容，我认为随着一年的推进，尤其是当展会季到来、更多游戏不断被公布时，我们会再回头看看。
We talked about much of the list early in January, and I think we'll we'll circle back around to it as the year kind of progresses, especially as the convention set season comes on board, and then more games are being announced again and again.
比如，《Windmill Valley》最近刚刚公布。
So, like, Windmill Valley was just recently announced.
它将推出双平台版本，因为现在游戏纷纷推出双平台版本，显然业界已经意识到：嘿。
It's gonna get a dual version because games are getting dual versions left and right because clearly, the industry has been like, hey.
你知道吗，安东尼？
You know what, Anthony?
现在运送东西的成本很高。
It's expensive to ship things right now.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
但我们让它更小一点，同时又新又不同，其实也不是真的新。
But let's make it smaller, but new and different, but not really.
就只是更小一点。
Just smaller.
是的。
Yeah.
所以很多发行商都在推出更小的版本。
So a lot of the publishers are dealing with smaller versions.
有些情况属于缩水通胀，基础游戏变得越来越小，以便更容易运输，然后你可以通过扩展包补全其他内容。
Some of the situations are shrinkflation where the base games are becoming smaller so that they could ship easier, and then you could pick up the other stuff with expansion.
所以你会看到产品和零售方面的一些变化，过去那种大型基础游戏的情况不再那么普遍了。
So you're gonna see some shifting going on as far as products and retail that, historically, like, bigger base games, not so much a thing.
而且，显然，不深入细节的话，目前世界正面临一些问题。
And, obviously, without getting into that kind of details, the world is having some issues at the moment.
当然，运输和燃油价格也会影响这些因素。
And certainly, shipping and fuel prices will kind of play into some of those things as well.
所以我们更不喜欢的那些东西了。
So more of the things that we do not like.
是的。
Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
这确实让人沮丧，但你知道，现在这种情况就是如此。
It's it's frustrating, but, you know, it's kinda the the way of things at this at this point.
有一点点。
A little bit.
更小的游戏。
Smaller games.
保持简单。
Keep it simple.
更小的游戏、卡牌游戏、小小的桌游，除了Kickstarter或GameFound上那些不知怎么的，你知道的。
Smaller games, card games, little tiny board games, except for Kickstarter or GameFound that somehow is just like, you know what?
一切。
Everything.
就是一切。
Just everything.
天哪。
Oh, man.
如果愿意的话
If willing
如果你愿意以支持者的身份支持它，我认为到那时就无所谓了。
if you're willing to ship it as a backer, I think it doesn't not matter at that point.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你要么得到一点点，要么就得到
You either get a tiny little bit or you get
一切。
everything.
现在没有小规模的了。
There's no there's no little these days.
比如，现在确实有一些正规的筹款活动上线了。
Like, there are legit, like, campaigns that go up now.
我觉得，哦，这个看起来挺有意思的。
I'm like, oh, that looks interesting.
然后我看看支持选项。
And then I look at the the backing options.
我想，我不想要那个机器人。
I'm like, I don't want that bot.
它太大了。
It's so big.
我不想要那个。
I don't want that.
你能只给我一个不带所有扩展内容的小版本吗？
Can you just give me a small version without all the expansions?
他们却说，不行。
And they're like, no.
买全套吧。
Buy it all.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，最终这个行业，或者至少这个社群，可能不得不转向更直接的零售购买模式，因为运费成本太高了，而且游戏的发布方式也让人遗憾——毕竟，那些包含所有内容的众筹产品美得无可比拟。
I think I think eventually the industry or at least the community might have to move towards more just like retail purchasing because just, again, cost of shipping and the way the games are coming out, which is sad because there's nothing more extraordinarily beautiful than those Kickstars with all the stuff.
对。
Right.
但你知道，即使单是价格，加上运费和其他当前发生的一切，就已经是个问题了。
But, you know, even their price alone, along with the shipping and everything else that's currently happening, is an issue.
看来这情况不会消失了。
It seems like it's not gonna go away.
随着时间推移，情况只会变得更糟。
It's only gonna get worse as time goes on.
所以
So
是的。
Yeah.
确实好像越来越糟了，不是吗？
It does seem to just keep getting worse, doesn't it?
如果你有游戏，那你应该有，因为除此之外你为什么要听这个播客呢？
So if you have games, and you should, because why else would you be listening to this podcast?
但如果你听这个播客却没玩游戏，那真是厉害了。
But if you're listening to this podcast and don't have games, like, way to go.
谢谢你的收听。
Like, thanks thanks for listening.
太棒了。
That's awesome.
但如果你有游戏，最好先保留一段时间，因为未来可能很难买到游戏。
But if you do have games, you might wanna hold on to them for a minute because it might be hard to get games in the future.
是的。
Yeah.
有一点。
A little bit.
有一点。
A little bit.
在游戏界的其他地方，安东尼，我们如此热爱和关心的行业——威世智公司的首席执行官承诺，魔法与龙与地下城的艺术创作将不会使用人工智能。
Well, elsewhere in the gaming universe, Anthony, in the industry that we love and care for so much, Hasbro, the CEO, promised that there will be no AI used in art for magic or D and D.
说完了。
Done.
他说了。
Said it.
这种情况永远不会发生。
It'll never happen
因为他说了嘛。
ever because it's it's but he said it.
他确实说了。
He did say it.
你只要说出来，这件事就定了。
That's all you gotta do is say it, and then it's done.
对吧？
Right?
安东尼，那人们该怎么绕过这一点呢？
How how would one get around that, Anthony?
我看不出来。
I I I don't see.
我觉得这简直是万无一失。
It seems like bulletproof to me.
不。
No.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你得撒谎，而这显然不是他的本意。
I mean, you would have to lie, and that's clearly not his intention.
不。
No.
所以我认为这大概没问题。
So I think probably it's fine.
我确实欣赏他至少做出了这样的声明。
I do appreciate the fact that at least he's making that statement.
而且显然
And obviously
是的。
Yeah.
确实是。
It is.
他们的大部分艺术作品确实来自其他地方。
The vast majority of their their artwork does come from other places.
所以
So
是的。
Yeah.
我认为不是。
I think no.
这是个非常好的观点。
That's that's a very good point.
没有任何证据表明他们使用了人工智能或其他类似技术。
It's there there's no evidence that they use AI or anything.
我认为人们只是对此感到担忧，是的。
I think people are just worried about it Yeah.
因为这看起来似乎很容易做到。
Because it seems like it would be easy to do.
是的。
Yes.
因为这件事做起来很容易，人们担心他们会这么做。
And because it would be easy to do, people are concerned that they would do that.
当然。
Sure.
我再次强调，没有理由认为事情就是这样。
I again, there's no reason to think that that's what's happening.
所以我完全理解有必要公开表明这一点。
So I I totally respect the need to come out and say that.
如今，出于多种原因，我对任何与人工智能相关的事情都持怀疑态度。
I'm cynical about anything related to AI these days for many reasons.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
很难不这样想。
It's it's tough not to be.
但你知道，与此同时，这也是工作的一部分。
But, you know, at the same time, it's it's part of the work.
关键在于，许多公司已经购买了它。
And that's the thing is a lot of these corporations have purchased it.
他们希望员工使用它，以提高生产力。
They want their employees using it and increases productivity.
是的。
Yes.
但如果他们身处创意行业，就不得不公开表示：我们不在创意方面使用它。
And then but if they're in the creative industry, they do have to come out and like, well, we're not using it for the creative side.
我们只在业务方面使用它。
We're just using it for the business side.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
我不知道你怎么划这条线，但我希望你在这方面做得很好。
Well, I don't know how you draw that line, but I I hope you're doing a good job of drawing that line.
是的。
Yeah.
就像技术总体上一样，对吧？它发展得如此之快，以至于在伦理、技术和法律层面，我们似乎总是落后一步。
And just like, I mean, technology generally, right, it it moves so incredibly fast that, you know, ethically, technically, legally, we seem to be always behind the eight ball on
就是这样。
that.
是的。
Yeah.
显然，由这么多人进行的营销、品牌推广和实施，已经导致了许多问题情境。
And obviously, the marketing, the branding, the implementation of this by so many different people has led to so many problematic situations.
我们不知道未来会怎样，但情况正在变好。
And we don't know the future, and it's getting better.
那你又怎么能分辨出某样东西是AI创作的艺术品或AI撰写的文字呢？
So how could you even tell if something was AI artwork or AI written?
最终，会达到一个你可能无法分辨差异的阶段。
Eventually, it's gonna get to a point where you may not be able to tell the difference.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
今天我有个客户说，我们有个计划，想做这些、这些和这些。
I had a client today who was like, we have this plan and we wanna do this, this, and this.
我们想用AI来完成所有这些事情。
And we wanna use AI to do all these things.
然而，它现在还做不到。
However, it can't quite do it.
所以我们打算先制定计划，并将实施安排在明年的第一季度，因为我觉得到那时，它就已经足够好，可以完成这些任务了。我当时说：是的，你可能说得对。
So we're gonna make the plan and we're gonna schedule it, the implementation for quarter one of next year, because I think by then, it'll be good enough to do these And I was like, yeah, you're probably right.
当然。
Sure.
你可能会，但我正在积极关注这个。
You're gonna but, like, I'm actively looking at this.
我在想，如果这能行得通，你就可以裁掉一半的服务人员。
I'm like, if you if this works, you get to lay off half your service staff.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
而且这真的很糟糕。
And it's just it sucks.
是啊，确实如此。
Don't It does.
我不知道他们会这么做。
Don't know that they'll do that.
我知道，我不清楚他们的计划是什么，但他们完全可以这么做。
I I, you know, I don't know what their plan is, but it just they could.
这真让人沮丧。
And that's frustrating.
所以，当你在创意产业中看到这种情况时，你会觉得，这就是唯一的一个领域。
And so, like, yeah, when you see it in creative industries, you're like, that's like the one area.
我想要的是《星际迷航》那样的未来。
I want my Star Trek future.
我不希望它在创意环节取代我们。
I don't want it to replace us in the creative end.
是的。
Yeah.
我不在乎它让你多高效。
I don't care how much more product productive it makes you.
生产力并不是创意工作的目的。
Productivity is not the point of creative work.
所以别让它沾边。
So keep it away from that.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，从历史上看，尤其是在最优秀的人才和圈子中，技术的承诺一直是要让我们摆脱繁重的劳作，以便我们能够从事艺术创作。
I mean, the promise of technology has always been historically, at least in the best circles with the best minds, that it was supposed to take us away from the grind so that we could do art.
对吧？
Right?
归根结底，每个人都是充满创造力的生命火花，都能为世界贡献出美好的东西。
At the end of the day, everyone is an amazing creative spark of life, and they have something wonderful to contribute to the world.
这不一定要是绘画或具体的艺术手工艺，但每个人都有能力为世界增添一些独特的东西，前提是有足够的时间、空间和条件。
It doesn't have to be painting or, you know, specific arts and crafts, but there's something that they could add to the world, if only they had the time and the space and the Right.
你知道的，还有资金和资源来实现它。
You know, the money and the resources to do so.
所以，人工智能、技术和机器人技术在不久的将来，应该能够做到这一点，带来一场文艺复兴，就像你所说的，进入一个《星际迷航》式的乌托邦情境，在那里，我们当前面临的许多基本问题和困境都能得到解决。
So AI and technology and robotics at some point very, very soon should be able to do that, should bring on a renaissance, like you said, from, like, a Star Trek utopia situation where, again, a lot of the basic problems and issues and things that we're dealing with could somehow be worked out.
但你必须为民众提供保障，而这似乎总是问题所在——这才是真正的症结所在。
But you have to provide for the populace, and that's seemingly, that seems to be always the problem is that there's that's where the problem really comes into play.
是的。
Yeah.
你如何与人相处？
How do you deal with people?
而且，从我的角度来看，这个问题需要以一种非常哲学性、心理学和社会学的方式来阐述。
How do and, again, it comes I mean, in my perspective, it comes from or needs to be stated in a very philosophical, psychological, social way.
我们该如何看待世界上其他人？
Like, how do we think about other people in the world?
但通常人们并不会这样去思考。
And typically, it's not framed that way.
它被框定在政治层面，我认为这是一种干扰。
It's framed in politics, which I think is a distraction.
不是关于团队。
Not about teams.
让我们回到真正的原因。
Let's get let's get down to the real reason.
这种技术正在发生。
Like, this technology is happening.
情况会变得更好。
It's going to get better.
它将被更多地应用于不同领域和专业中。
It's going to be more implemented in different areas and expertise.
接下来呢？
Now what?
这现在意味着什么？
What does that mean now?
我的意思是，美国的就业报告，我认为他们失业人数下降的幅度非常惊人，而他们原本没预料到会这样。
I mean, the jobs report here in The United States, I think they were down a crazy amount of jobs when they didn't expect that to be.
这种情况只会继续下去。
That's only going to continue.
大学毕业生，有史以来第一次，拥有学士学位的人就业率达到了最差水平。
College graduates, first time in forever, have had, you know, the worst employment rates with a bachelor's degree ever.
那么接下来呢？
So what's next?
是的。
Yeah.
这是一场挺有意思的对话。
That's an interesting kind of conversation.
所以，这正在影响我们所处的创意市场。
So, it's affecting the creative market in which we play in.
我们之前已经讨论过这个话题了。
And then we've had this conversation before.
AEG介入了，说：嘿，我们可以直接用AI取代我们的设计师。
AEG got involved and was like, hey, you know, we can just replace our designers with AI.
我敢打赌，虽然我对这方面没有了解或信息，别引用我说的话，但我肯定有些游戏是AI创作的。
And I guarantee you, and I have no knowledge or information on this, so don't quote me, but I guarantee you there are games out there that are AI created.
我的意思是，为什么不会有呢？
I mean, why wouldn't there be?
哦，对啊。
Oh, yeah.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
不，不是的。
No, no.
当然有。
Of course, there are.
它们的设计是上下左右地生成的。
They've been designed in up and down and left and right.
所以
So
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
它用起来非常快速简便。
It's it's so quick and easy to use.
是的。
Yeah.
而且它可以从任何东西中窃取信息。
And it could steal from everything.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
Totally.
前几天有人提到了这一点，就像我们小时候那样，安东尼。
Somebody pointed this out the other day, like, way back when we were kids, Anthony.
还记得吗？你当时看VCR录像带，开头总有一个巨大的FBI警告，说不能复制，否则就是滥用。
Remember, like, you you watch a VCR cassette and, like, at the beginning, it was a gigantic FBI warning that this can't be duplicated or you misused anyway.
或者像美国职业棒球大联盟说不能重新播放，但现在没人在意了。
Or, like, Major League Baseball says you can't rebroadcast or like, now that's like, no one cares now.
这到底是怎么发生的？
Like, how did that happen?
是的。
Yeah.
我们都偷一切。
We all steal everything.
因为一旦你承认企业可以窃取所有这些知识产权，你就会想，那我为什么不能这么做呢？
Well, because once you say the corporations can steal all that IP, you're not like, well, why why shouldn't I do that?
我
I
不在乎。
don't care.
我可以做任何我想做的事。
Can do whatever I want.
这真的太疯狂了。
It's really crazy.
而且在数字世界里，没人真正拥有任何东西。
And and no one owns anything digitally.
每个人都以为自己拥有某样数字内容，直到他们把它撤下。
Everyone thinks like, oh, you own a digital copy of something until they pull it off.
因为说到底，你并不拥有它。
Because again, you don't.
他们决定什么时候要把某样东西撤下。
They they decide when they're gonna pull something off.
所以，好好保存你的桌游吧。
So hold on to your boardgames.
对吧？
Right?
保存好
Hold on
它们并没有被授权。
to They're not licensed.
他们不能进你家把东西拿走。
They can't come take it out of your house.
你拥有它。
You own that.
保留好你的实体媒介。
Hold on to your physical media.
听起来可能很过时，但你永远不知道什么时候你再也看不到你最爱的节目或电影。
As archaic as it may sound, you never know when you won't be able to see your favorite show or movie.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且现在流媒体的价格比以往任何时候都高，再加上行业整合，价格只会越来越高。
And again, with the prices of streaming now now more than ever and the way they're consolidating, it's only gonna get more expensive.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
在过去一年里，我取消了我们大部分的流媒体服务，真的。
I in the last year, I've canceled most of our streaming services Same.
于是我重新开始购买实体媒介，因为确实如此。
And I started buying physical media again because Yeah.
这太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
我几个月前刚取消了Paramount，然后就想，哦，我可以把《低层甲板》的所有蓝光碟都买下来，因为……
I just, like I canceled Paramount a few months ago, and I was like, oh, I can buy all the lower decks deep Blu rays because
我之前也这么做过。
I did that a while back.
我喜欢这部剧，不想给Paramount送钱。
I like this show, and I don't wanna give money to Paramount.
完全同意。
100%.
我之前就这么做了，现在就是觉得，没错。
I did that a while back, and I'm just like, yep.
而且，他们的节目会轮换，所以当你找不到想看的东西时，真的很让人难过。
And, again, they cycle their shows, so you don't it's it's sad when you can't find something that you wanna watch.
所以，谁会想到呢？我的意思是，我们还是应该更讲道德一些。
So I who knew we got to I mean, again, let's be more ethical.
比如，支付每个人报酬，让每个人都能创作，然后每个人都能使用并从中受益。
Like, pay everyone so everyone can create, and then everyone can, you know, utilize and benefit from it.
桌游，正如我之前提到过的，还有在Facebook和其他地方，这是一种非常独特的手工艺术和爱好，属于真实的人。
So tabletop gaming, as I think I stated at some point previously, but also on Facebook and other places, like, it's a very unique artisan craft and hobby of real people.
这并不是电子游戏。
It's not video games.
它们不是什么AI生成的虚拟形象之类的东西。
They're not, you know, AI generated avatars and such.
这些都是真实的人。
Like, these are real people.
他们正和你面对面坐在桌旁，玩着由某人精心设计的游戏。
They're sitting at a table with you in person, playing something that was crafted by someone.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
它们的缺陷、美感以及投入的时间，正是使其如此特别和独特的原因。
The flaws and the beauty and the time that they put into it is what makes it so special and unique.
对。
Right.
一旦你开始——你已经这样做了——把人工智能引入其中，AI可以提供辅助。
And as soon as you start, which you already are, start, you know, putting AI into that, Again, AI can support.
我们做过一整期关于这个的节目，安东尼。
We did a whole episode on this, Anthony.
AI可以辅助游戏，但一旦它取代了设计师、艺术家和作家，你就抽走了这项爱好的核心，就这样完了。
AI can support gaming, but once it replaces the the designer and the artist and the writer, you've taken the heart out of the the heart out of the hobby, and that's it.
结束了。
It's done.
是的。
Yeah.
那意义何在呢？
There's just like, what's the point?
我们到底在做什么？
What are we doing?
如果任何人都能创造任何东西，但这一切都没有个人色彩，没有灵魂，那我们到底在做什么？
If anybody could create anything, but none of it's personal, there's no soul in it, like, what are we doing?
是的。
Yeah.
你需要设计师能够参与到创作中，因为AI至少现在无法完全理解人类的世界，尤其是当他们在玩游戏的时候。
And you need you need that designer to be able to be in that creation because AI cannot, at least now, and and I and I almost would say can never fully understand the the human in the world, especially when they're playing a game.
对。
Like Right.
当有人设计一款桌面游戏时，他们在每一个环节都会考虑到玩这款游戏的人。
That algorithm or that creation that someone when they make a tabletop game, they're considering at all points the person who's playing that game.
AI无法像创作者那样理解玩家，因为它们不是人。
AI can't can't consider a person at the level of a creator because they're not a person.
对。
Right.
你需要有这种人性，才能说：我会这样感受。
You need to be you need to have that personhood to go, I'll feel this way.
哦，那会是一个时刻，或者这会是那样的。
Oh, that'll be a moment, or this will be like that.
你必须有人性的元素，才能知道这种体验会通过游戏传达出来。
Like, you have to have that human element to know that that experience will come through the game.
这是经过精心挑选的。
It's curated.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Like Yeah.
没有艺术是完美的。
No art is perfect.
让艺术完美的正是这种‘是的’。
That's what makes art perfect is Yes.
它本质上都是有缺陷的。
It it's all inherently flawed.
我想不出我书架上哪款游戏完全没有问题。
That, like, I can't think of a single game on my shelf that doesn't have some issue with it.
但往往正是这些最好的游戏，这些瑕疵反而提升了整体体验。
But it's often those the best games, those blemishes enhance the whole.
是的。
Yes.
你无法刻意烘焙出这种效果。
You can't bake that.
而且，你知道，我们常说，我能做这个或做不了这个。
And, you know, we we say, yeah, I can do this or can't do this.
我们不知道它能做什么，或者未来它将能做什么。
We don't know what it can do or what it will be able to do in the future.
但那种本质上属于人类的部分，比如有人会说：‘我真的很喜欢这个部分，尽管它并不完美。’
But that inherently human piece where someone's like, no, I really like this part even though it doesn't quite work.
我会想办法让它变得更好一点。
I'll make it work a little bit.
当然。
Sure.
这根本不是机器能做到的事，因为这并不是它们的设计目的。
That's just not something that's a machine can do because it's not what it's designed to do.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
正如我所说，再强调一遍，正是这种人类之间的连接，某种意义上，这是一种人类体验。
Like I said, and again, it's just the human connection that somehow you can it's a human experience.
当设计师在创造一种人类体验时，正是通过设计来感受人类体验。
When a designer is making a human experience, experiencing the human experience through the design.
我认为这很有价值。
And I think that has value.
我的意思是，在某些情况下，安东尼，许多严肃游戏之所以失败，就是因为它们过于追求功能性，而忽略了其中的人性元素。
I mean, think that's some- in some cases, Anthony, that's where a lot of serious games have kind of, flailed and faltered, where they're so overly engineered to do a thing that they forget the human element in that.
这就是为什么许多严肃游戏不好玩。
And that's why a lot of serious games are not fun.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，就是缺少那种门槛。
You know, there's just not that gate.
就像在说：哦，这是工作。
It's like, oh, it's work.
对。
Yeah.
再说一遍，你和我玩过数百款欧洲风格的游戏，它们简直就像电子表格，但因为有人性元素，所以并不枯燥。
And again, you and I have played hundreds of euro games that might as well be spreadsheets, but because of the human element, they're not.
他们感受不到那种‘是的’。
They don't feel that Yeah.
根本上
Way at
说实话，这甚至可能是一种有趣的练习，比如拿一个机制丰富的有趣游戏，把它变得无趣。
honestly, it could be kind of a fun, exercise almost to, like, take a fun game with a lot of mechanics and make it unfun.
我们可以做一系列事情。
There's a list of things we could do.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我们怎么才能把这个很棒的游戏变得糟糕呢？
How do we take this really good game and make it bad?
我们要改变多少东西才能让这个游戏变糟？
What how how many things would we have to change to make this bad?
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
对。
Yeah.
所以，让这些游戏逐步演变，或者多次通过AI处理，直到它变成一个电子表格。
So de de evolve some of these games or, run it through AI a number of times until it just becomes a spreadsheet.
它会退化成某种奇怪的变异形态。
It reverts to some sort of weird mutated form.
没错。
Right.
对。
Yeah.
ChatGPT，移除所有让这个游戏独特的东西。
ChatGPT, remove anything that makes this unique.
没错。
That's right.
任何奇怪的特点。
Any any quirks.
确实如此。
That's true.
我的意思是，关于这一点，最后我想说的是，大卫·林奇最近去世了，他最出名的作品可能是《双峰》、《象人》和《橡皮头》，还有其他很多作品。
I mean I mean, last thing on this too is just, like, I think David Lynch who recently passed away, probably best known for Twin Peaks, Elephant Man, and Eraserhead, and a lot of other stuff.
他总是谈论自己电影和电视剧中的神秘感，认为保持这种神秘感至关重要。
Like, he would always talk about the mystery of his movies and TV shows and like, how it was essential to keep that mystery intact.
因为如果他告诉你答案，或者为你解开这个谜团，那么作品就失去了人性的成分。
Because if he told you what it was or if he solved that mystery for you, then it loses the human element to it.
有些事情必须保持神秘、人性化、有缺陷，只有这样才具有真实感，才能吸引人。
Some things need to remain mysterious, human, flawed, you know, that kind of realness to it in order to be engaging.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
因为如果你知道，比如你看一部电影，哦，原来这就是它的意思。
Because if it you know, like, you watch a movie like, oh, that's what that is.
哦，明白了。
Oh, okay.
然后你的大脑立刻就会想，好了，我对这个没兴趣了，我要换别的了。
And then and then immediately your brain goes, well, I'm done with this and I'm gonna move on.
对。
Right.
相反，你会想，我不明白这是什么。
Instead of like, I don't understand what this is.
这看起来非常奇怪和不同。
This seems very weird and different.
大卫·林奇的电影非常古怪和独特。
David Lynch's films are very strange and different.
而它们的美妙之处就在于，他通过这种超现实的神秘感让你沉浸其中，有时甚至带有一种克苏鲁式的不可名状之物的氛围，让你觉得这完全超越了我，远远超越了我。
And that's what's wonderful about them is that level of engagement he gives you by providing that kind of surreal mystery that sometimes, like, Cthulhu esque eldritch god kind of vibe to it, where it's just like, it's beyond me and it's so beyond me.
这让人感到害怕和恐怖。
It's scary and horrifying.
但这种神秘感和恐怖感也在于，它比我更大，我想要继续学习并投入更多去理解它。
But it's also that mystery and that horror of like, it's bigger than me that I I want to continue to learn and invest more into it.
是的。
So Right.
这是一个美丽而奇妙的谜团，我们非常感谢所有设计师。
It's a beautiful, wonderful mystery, we're really thankful for all the designers out there.
所以这周我们很高兴讨论那些获奖和获提名的人。
So we're happy to talk about that this week, all the people that are being awarded and nominated.
但当然，还有更多人正在默默开发他们的游戏，许多设计师为他们的游戏投入了数年时光。
But certainly, there are so many more out there that are working on their games right now and so many designers that put years into their games.
再次发自内心地，我们由衷感谢他们的辛勤付出。
And again, from the the bottom of our hearts, we really do appreciate the hard work that they do.
不要向人工智能屈服。
Don't give into AI.
别这么做。
Don't don't do it.
对。
Yeah.
这太容易了。
It's so easy.
我明白，但别这么做。
I get it, but don't do it.
是的。
Yeah.
别这么做。
Don't do it.
不。
No.
你很棒。
You're awesome.
坚持下去。
Stay with it.
我们非常感激。
We appreciate it.
是的。
Yeah.
我们确实如此。
We we certainly do.
好的。
Alright.
在我们进入关于功能评测的有趣内容之前，安东尼，我们先谈一谈其他想讨论的事情。
Well, before we get into all that fun stuff with our feature review, Anthony, let's get on to the other stuff that we want to talk about.
我们开始预览吧。
Let's, roll for preview.
好的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
我们在这里做预览。
Preview we are here.
我想聊聊我们在PAX上看到的一款游戏。
I wanna talk about a game that we saw at PAX.
我没能有机会亲自玩，但我确实一直驻足观看，看了好几次，因为它的桌游氛围非常强烈。
And I didn't get a chance to play it, but I definitely, like, hovered and watched it played a few times because it just had a really strong table presence.
他们的展台氛围也很出色。
And they had a really strong booth presence too.
这是《Rematch》，一款拼图格斗桌游，目前正在Kickstarter上筹款。
This is Rematch, the puzzle fighter board game, which is on Kickstarter right now.
它还剩大约三周的筹款时间。
It's up for, like, another three weeks.
所以如果你感兴趣，还有很多时间可以去了解。
So plenty of time to check it out if you're interested.
而且这是一款一对一的游戏。
And it is a one v one.
所以这是一款双人对战、以街机为主题的拼图格斗桌游。
So it's a two player game, arcade themed puzzle fighter board game.
我想整个类型都属于拼图格斗类电子游戏，嗯。
So think there's a whole genre of puzzle fighter video games Mhmm.
这些游戏本质上都是某种形式的三连消或四连消玩法。
Which are effectively some form of like match three or or match four type of thing.
但还融合了战斗元素。
But combining with like combat elements.
比如超级拼图格斗，或者那些类似的游戏。
So super puzzle fighter or, you know, any of those.
而这款桌游正是借鉴了这个想法。
And so this is kinda taking that idea.
所以你能感受到那种氛围，比如图形设计和实体设计。
And so you get the vibe, like, the the the graphic design, the physical design.
它看起来就像一台街机机柜。
It looks like an arcade cabinet.
你看到的这些角色，看起来像是直接从九十年代的二维格斗游戏中走出来的。
You have, like, these characters who look like they're straight out of a two d fighting game from the nineties.
然后你面前有一个托盘，里面装满了红色、黄色和蓝色的球，你需要操控它们来组成不同的组合，以攻击对手。
And then you have this tray full of red, yellow, and blue balls that you're trying to manipulate to form different combos to attack your enemy.
所以这简直就是一款拼图战士游戏。
So it is literally like a puzzle fighter.
但当然，每位玩家都有自己独特的技能和特性。
But, of course, each player has, like, their own special abilities and stuff.
所以它附带了六个不同的角色，我想是这样。
So it it it comes with, I think, six different characters.
而每个角色都有自己独特的技能组合。
And then each of these characters has just their own combination of stuff.
你拿起这些弹珠。
You take these marbles.
我想它们 technically 是弹珠，但真的很大。
And I guess they are technically marbles, they're really big.
当然。
Sure.
你可以根据拉动的方式形成不同的组合，发动攻击、使用技能或连招。
And you get these different combinations based on how you pull them and you do an attack or do an ability or chain something together.
所以它有种魔药爆炸的感觉，是的。
And so it's got like potion explosion vibes Yes.
但又结合了拼图战士的元素。
But combined with, like, puzzle fighter.
而且它看起来非常酷。
And it just looks very cool.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我唯一的问题是，当我看到它在展会上的样子时，感觉真的很酷。
The only problem I have because, like, when I saw it at the conventionals, like, that looks cool.
我会把它收藏起来。
I'm gonna, like, bookmark it.
我会回头再看它。
I'll come back to it.
然后他们把它上架了。
And then they put it up.
我觉得这看起来挺酷的。
I'm like, that looks cool.
我应该去了解一下。
I should check that out.
我想看看能不能入手这个。
I wanna see if I could pick that up.
游戏的基础版本
The base version of the game
是的
Yeah.
是100美元。
Is a $100.
这只是包含亚克力棋子的基础版游戏。
So that's just the base game with acrylic standees.
是的
Yeah.
就这些。
That's it.
艺术收藏家版则包含了你可能感兴趣的额外角色。
The art collector's edition, which then has the additional characters you might be interested in.
有四个追加目标角色，这太差劲了。
It's four stretch goal characters, which is lame.
别把角色当付费内容。
Don't don't pay gate the characters.
这不太酷。
That's not cool.
是的。
Yeah.
这很奇怪。
That's weird.
这很奇怪。
That's weird.
它是150美元。
It's a $150.
然后是超级加速版，哦。
And then the Super Turbo edition Oh.
它附带一堆其他奇怪的东西，比如一些签名和一些非常稀有的额外角色，我想。
Which comes with a bunch of other weird stuff, like some signatures and additional characters that are super exclusive, I guess.
是的。
Yeah.
一百九十九美元。
One ninety nine.
所以，如果你想要的话，他们还有一些升级选项，比如金属硬币和玻璃弹珠，因为这些弹珠可能是塑料的。
So and they also have some upgrades in there if you want, like, metal coins and glass marbles, because the marbles are probably plastic.
哇。
Wow.
玻璃弹珠还要额外四十美元。
Glass marbles are another $40.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
所以这里的最高档支持是三百美元。
So the highest level pledge here is $300.
当然。
Sure.
而且它
And it
只是附带一些周边，比如徽章、T恤之类的。
just comes with some swag, like pins and t shirts and stuff.
我不知道啊，老兄。
I don't know, man.
我真的不知道。
I don't know.
它真的有一种超酷的动漫街机风格。
It's it really has a super cool anime, arcade kind of vibe to it.
我的意思是，我真的非常喜欢这里的美术设计。
I mean, really just I really love the artwork here.
而且显然，他们在这里明确表示，这里没有AI生成的艺术作品。
And obviously, again, they're saying explicitly here, no AI artwork here.
所以，总的来说，有很多优秀的设计师。
So, like, there's a lot of great designers across the board.
就是这样。
It's just yeah.
你一看就觉得，制作水准真的很高。
Like, you look at it and you're like like, the production value is really high.
高得离谱。
It's crazy high.
但其实东西也没多少。
But also, it's not that much stuff.
没错。
No.
那为什么这么贵？
Like, why does it cost so much?
你是在为艺术作品买单。
Well, you pay for the artwork.
也许归根结底就是这么回事。
Maybe that's just what it comes down to.
美术作品真的很棒。
Artwork's really good.
是的。
Yeah.
我得承认他们在这方面做得很好。
I have to give them credit for that.
而且，这里的设计远远不止美术部分。
And, like, there's a lot of design here beyond just artwork.
比如，还有结构设计、视觉设计，以及每一个元素的设计，你知道的。
Like, it's, like, structural design and visual design and, like, just the elements of each, you know.
当然。
Sure.
而且每个角色都有其主题性。
Like and each of the characters is thematic in a way.
比如，你看到厨师，他们的棋盘就像厨房一样，然后他们有一个厨师棋盘，上面是一锅面条。
Like, you get the chef, for example, like, their board is like them in a kitchen and then they have a chef board, which is like a a wok full of noodles.
这很有趣。
That's funny.
感觉挺酷的。
It's like it's cool.
有这么多东西真不错。
It's cool to have all that stuff.
但比如，如果我玩到这样的游戏，我之前也提过，我找的是那种价格不是400美元的游戏。
But like, if I got a game like this and like I I mentioned this before, like, I'm looking for games that I can pick up that are not $400.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
就给我基础版游戏，让我拥有这些酷炫的内容就行。
Like, just give me the base game and let me have the cool stuff.
如果我玩到这样的游戏，我就想要所有角色。
If I get a game like this, I want all the characters.
这才是最重要的事。
That's the most important thing.
百分之百。
A 100%.
我其实不在乎那些花里胡哨的东西。
I don't really care about all the bling.
给我便宜一点的弹珠吧。
Give me the cheaper marbles.
给我，当然可以。
Give me, like Sure.
我能用爆炸药水吗？
Can I use potion explosion?
我就用这个代替吧。
Like, I'll use that instead.
但不行，我想要所有角色。
But no, I want all the characters.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，盒子里的六个就挺好。
Like, six out of the box is fine.
但如果你告诉我还有四个额外的独家款，是的。
But if you're telling me there's four additional exclusives Yeah.
然后，可能还有更多，我就觉得，这不太行。
And then, like, maybe even more beyond that, I'm like, well, that's not cool.
这是那种你希望别喜欢上的游戏，是的。
It's it's one of those games where you hope you don't like it Yeah.
所以你不会，再说一遍，这很难，因为如果你真的喜欢，那你怎么可能不把所有东西都买下来呢？
So you won't be, like, again, it's hard because if you do like it, then how are you not buying, you know, all of it?
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
但有些东西是独家的，所以
But then it's, like, some of the stuff is exclusive, so
是的。
Yeah.
他们费尽心思，让几乎所有人——不是字面意义上的每个人，但几乎是所有人——都来支持这个活动。
And they've gone out of their way to get literally, seemingly not literally everybody, but almost everybody to kind of endorse this campaign.
是的。
Yeah.
就像你说的，归根结底，这只是一个小小的盒子，纯粹为了好玩，看起来像一款电子游戏。
And like you said, at the end of the day, it's just it's honestly just, you know, a small box that's just used for the fun of it to look like a video game.
然后里面就是一个装满弹珠的小盒子。
And then it's basically a little box with a bunch of marbles in it.
是的。
Yeah.
你用这些弹珠，然后它们会进行那种魔药爆炸的效果，就像它们一个接一个地滚落、掉出来那样。
And you utilize the marbles, and and then they do the potion explosion thing, like how they kinda fall fall down, fall out.
然后你可以激活特定角色的能力。
And then you activate certain character's abilities.
所以，正如你提到的，有很多类似这样的游戏。
So, again, we've seen this, as you mentioned, there's so many different games that are like this.
这些游戏几乎立刻变成了生活方式类游戏，因为除此之外，你如何跟上所有不同角色的更新呢？
And these become almost immediately lifestyle games because how else do you keep up with all the different characters Right.
还有成本问题。
And the cost.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种这样的游戏：我可以随时拿起来玩，他们可能会随着时间推出新角色，我可以再购买这些新角色，这很棒。
And it's like, it's the kind of game where I'm like, I could pick this up and they probably release new characters over time and I could pick those up and that'd be great.
但我知道，要想买到包含全部10个角色的游戏，得花150美元，没错。
But I think knowing I need to spend a $150 to get the game with all 10 characters Sure.
我得放弃。
I I have to pass.
但看起来真的很酷。
But it looks really cool.
我真的很希望我认识的人买下它。
I would love I hopefully, someone I know buys it.
我想玩它。
I wanna play it.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
不。
No.
再说一遍，我脑子里偶尔会冒出这种想法：这也许就是我的专属游戏。
It it again, it's it's there's always that kind of thought every once in a while in my head where it's just like, I could just this could be my thing.
我就这么做，这就能成为我的标志。
Like, I could just do this could be me.
我可以成为那个去游戏之夜的人，然后说：他带来了这个游戏。
I could be that guy coming to game night and just be like, he's bringing that game.
这会非常酷，因为你带着这款游戏和所有这些角色，每个人都能玩。
Like, that's gonna be very cool because you're bringing that game with all those characters and everyone can play it.
从今以后，这就是你的专属了。
Like, that's your thing from now on.
对吧？
Right?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
我觉得这不可能既是你的专属，又涵盖所有其他事情。
I don't think this could be your thing plus everything else.
不。
No.
我的意思是，如果你能做到，那真是祝你好运。
I mean, god bless you if you can.
如果你能做到，告诉我们一声，我们好过去跟你一起玩。
And if you can, let us know so we'll come over and play.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
如果这是你的专长，而且你住得离我近，就告诉我一声。
If if this is your thing and you live near me, let me know.
我会跟你一起玩。
I'll play with you.
当然。
100%.
所以，是的，你有到2026年3月31日为止的时间来支持它。
So, yeah, you have until 03/31/2026 to back it.
它已经远远超过了5万美元的筹资目标，达到了21.6万美元。
It's already way over its backing goal of 50,000 at 216,000.
而且，是的， rematch，这款拼图战士桌游。
And, yeah, rematch, the puzzle fighter board game.
挺酷的，孩子们。
Pretty cool, kids.
我不知道。
I don't know.
看起来不错。
Looks good.
别再干这种事了，老兄。
Stop doing things like that, man.
这钱也没多到吓人。
It's not so much freaking money.
我跟你说。
I tell you.
天哪。
Jeez.
这是弹珠，老兄。
It's marbles, man.
谁会想到弹珠才是我们应该投资的地方？
Who knew marbles was where we should be investing in?
弹珠。
Marbles.
弹珠传播了这个。
Marbles spread that.
骰子。
Dice.
对吧？
Right?
你去参加一个展会，看到那里到处都是骰子，人们简直像骰子小精灵一样，疯狂购买所有骰子。
You go to a convention, and you and you see all the dice out there, and, like, people are dice gremlins, and they buy all the dice.
但说到弹珠。
But, like, marbles.
天啊，弹珠的市场。
Man, the market for marbles.
如果你早点入手弹珠，那你这辈子就稳了。
If you get in early on marbles, you're set for life.
也许吧。
Maybe.
有可能。
It's possible.
是的。
Yeah.
看看这个。
Look at this.
或者新骰子上的孔洞。
Or holes in the new dice.
是的。
Yeah.
这确实是个问题。
It's a thing.
好吧。
Alright.
那我们继续来看评测吧。
Well, let's roll on to review here.
关于一些便宜得多的游戏，安东尼，便宜太多了。
On games that are a lot less expensive, Anthony, like tremendously.
理论上，你可能买得起这些游戏，所以别担心。
Conceivably, possibly, you could afford these games, so don't worry about it.
这在现实世界中确实存在。
It's a thing in the real world out there.
所以是这样的。
So yeah.
所以我们很高兴聊聊我们确实拥有并负担得起的东西。
So we're happy to talk about things that we do have and do afford.
首先是一款游戏，大概在去年年底推出的，叫《点银河》。
So first up is a game that, came out, I guess, relatively towards the end of last year, Point Galaxy.
通过数百种独特的方式积累你的银河分数。
Build your Galaxy score points in hundreds of unique ways.
显然，这属于所谓的‘得分类’游戏。
Obviously, this is in the, I I guess, the family of point games, so to speak.
你有《点沙拉》。
So you have Point Salad.
你有《点城市》。
You have Point City.
我想我已经玩过这三款游戏了。
We've played all I guess, I have now played all three of these.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
威尔和梅根，他们之前也来过我们这里，也玩过这些游戏。
Will and Megan, who's also been with us previously, they've also played these.
他们最出名的是AEG的游戏。
And they're probably best known for AEG games.
这些都是小盒装游戏，遵循一种非常简单的入门级游戏格式，大致如此。
These are small box games, and they follow a very, simple gateway game, give or take.
我们稍后会讨论这种游戏的格式。
We'll we'll discuss that in a minute, kind of format for this.
而且，这里我得剧透一下。
And, this will this is also spoiler here, I guess.
它也是被提名为Origins游戏展的游戏之一，所以我们稍后会聊
It's also one of the games that has been nominated for the Origins Game Fair, so we'll talk a
更多关于这个话题。
little bit more about that too.
协同效应。
Synergy.
我跟你说。
I tell you.
所以是点星 galaxy。
So Point Galaxy.
首先，我快速说一下，因为刚才我们刚提到过。
First off, let me say just very quickly here because, again, we just I just mentioned this.
安东尼，你玩过《点沙拉》和《点城市》。
Anthony, you've played, Point Salad and you've played Point City.
我玩过。
I have.
这两款游戏都不错。
They're both good.
你喜欢这些游戏吗？
Do you like those games?
我玩得挺多的。
I do quite a bit.
好的。
Okay.
你更喜欢哪一个呢？
Do you like one more than the other?
我稍微更喜欢《点城》一些。
I like Point City a little bit more.
《点沙拉》很棒，因为上手快、容易教，但玩法比较单一。
Point Salad is great because it's quick and easy to teach, but it's pretty one dimensional.
《点城》有一些非常有趣的机制，而且依然相对容易教。
Point City had some really interesting mechanics, and it's still relatively easy to teach.
我想我玩过更多次《点城》。
I've played that one a lot more, I think.
是的。
Yeah.
BGG 上的《Point Salad》权重是 1.15。
Point Salad on BGG is a 1.15 weight.
非常好。
Very good.
我完全可以提出一个观点，认为《Point Salad》是最棒的入门游戏之一。
I would certainly venture out here an argument that Point Salad is one of the best gateway games.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，不是从《大富翁》这样的游戏开始，而是针对那些想接触桌游、好奇‘这玩意儿是什么’的人。
Because and I mean that as, like, not taking someone from Monopoly necessarily, but somebody who wants to get into games, like hobby kind of games and like, hey, what's this thing?
这就是所谓的集卡机制。
Well, this is what's called set collection.
我在课堂上，第二周还没怎么铺垫的时候就会用这个游戏，它总是很容易教。
So I use this one in my classroom, like, in week two when we haven't scaffolded much, and it's always a very quick teach.
对。
Yeah.
我几乎没有遇到什么困难，他们通常一小时能玩三局。
I've had very little trouble, and they usually get in, like, three games of it in an hour.
这确实是个非常好的游戏，也证明了它是一款入门级游戏。
Like, it's it's a really good one, which shows me it is a gateway game.
这是一个单一的机制。
It's Yeah.
单一的机制。
Single single mechanic.
没错。
Yep.
非常简单。
Very simple.
所以，是的。
Like, so what yeah.
你说得对。
Well, you're spot on.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，这设计真是太出色了，因为那些展示胜利条件的牌让你可以选择。
And again, it's it's such a brilliant design because the plates that are showing you the victory point conditions that you that you're able to choose
嗯。
Mhmm.
你不仅可以朝着这些条件去建设，还可以等到后期再选择这些牌。
Not only can you build towards those, but you can also wait later to actually pick those up.
或者，如果这些条件不适合你，你可以把这张牌翻过来，让它不再成为胜利条件，甚至不会对你造成扣分。
Or in fact, if it's not working for you, you could flip that card over so it it's no longer a victory condition or hurts you as far as the point.
这种游戏设计具有很大的灵活性。
So there's a lot of flexibility in that kind of game design.
这不仅仅是你拥有x个东西那么简单，而是你可以自己选择哪些能得分、哪些不能得分，我觉得这太棒了。
It's not just like you had x number of things, but, like, you choose what scores and what doesn't score, which I think is brilliant.
而且它还有一个非常不错的滚雪球机制：如果你在几张得分卡上都有番茄，那你整个游戏就只会拼命地收集番茄了。
And it has a really nice kind of snowballing mechanic where if you got tomatoes on a couple of different point scoring cards, you're just gonna just slam tomatoes for the rest of the game.
对。
Right.
所以，这非常直接明了。
So, it's really straightforward.
正如安东尼所说，这个游戏非常有趣，简单又直接。
As Anthony said, it's really fun, really simple, straightforward.
点数城市。
Point City.
现在，点数城市稍微复杂一些。
Now Point City is a little more complex.
根据BTG的说法，它的难度是1.68。
According to BTG, it's a 1.68.
所以这可能是一款更重的游戏。
So it is a heavier game, probably.
我不确定。
I don't know.
你觉得它在哪里？
Where do you see it?
这仍然会是一款入门游戏吗？
Is would this still be a gateway game?
安东尼，你对这个有什么体验？
What's your experience of this, Anthony?
不。
No.
我不这么认为。
I don't think so.
我同意。
I agree.
很好。
Good.
我觉得它只是比那多走了一步。
I think it's like a a single step beyond that.
但 是的。
But Yeah.
从机制上来说，比如你如何抽取卡牌，以及中心区域——不是牌桌，而是你进行选牌的那个中心区域——这些有点复杂，对完全不玩桌游的人来说太多了。
The the mechanics in terms of, like, how you pull the cards and, like, how the tableau not the tableau, but, like, the the center tableau of, like, how you're drafting them
是的。
Yes.
这对完全不玩桌游的人来说有点太复杂了。
Is a little much for somebody who doesn't play games at all.
是的。
Yes.
我曾经和我的孩子们一起玩过这个游戏，他们只是说：好啊，没问题。
Like, I've I've played this game with my kids, and they're just like, sure, fine.
这很棒。
This is great.
非常好。
It's great.
但这并不复杂，只是稍微多了一些额外负担。
But it's not complex, but it has a little bit more overhead.
而且这里同时有两到三个机制在运作。
And there are, like, two or three mechanics going on here.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
当然，这个牌阵设置步骤中，你将从中抽牌，里面还有奖励卡。
Certainly, this the Tableau step set up where you're gonna be drawing cards from, there's bonus cards in there.
有一些卡能生成资源，而你需要这些资源才能使用特定的奖励卡。
There are cards that generate resources that you're gonna need in order to be able to play the particular bonus cards.
当你抽取卡片时，必须呈正交方式抽取。
And then when you pick up cards, you have to pick up them, you know, orthogonally to each other.
所以这个游戏里有很多小挑战，还有不同的计分方式。
So there there's there's a lot of little challenges in that game, and then there's different point scoring things.
所以玩这个游戏的时候，你需要同时处理好几件事。
So there's there's a couple of balls to to kind of juggle when you're playing the game.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你需要慢慢体会这一点，因为现在当你进入Point Galaxy时，它在BGG上的价格是1.95美元。
You need to kinda get a sense of that because now when you get into Point Galaxy, which is on BGG, a 1.95.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以社区普遍认为这款游戏稍微重一些。
So this is considered by the community a little bit heavier.
通常来说，原因在于它在Point City的基础上，进一步提升了复杂度，尤其是在得分机制方面。
And, generally, the reason why is it it takes point city, and it ups it ups it a little bit as far as complexity is concerned as far as how are you scoring.
因为在这款游戏中，我认为他们主要的设计意图是让你有多种方式来得分。
Because in this game, I think the main the main thing that they did here is they wanted you to have multiple ways to score points.
基本上，你是在构建星系。
Now, basically, you're you're putting together galaxies.
所以如果你还记得点沙拉游戏，你当时有一张盘子图，上面有蔬菜，会给你加分或减分。
So if you remember way back to Point Salad, you had this kind of plate image with vegetables on it that gave you pluses or minuses.
你把这些蔬菜放在自己的个人版图上。
You put that on in your personal tableau.
然后根据这些蔬菜，你会获得分数，或者再次获得负分。
And then based upon those vegetables, you'll score points or, again, negative points.
这里也非常类似，你有太阳作为星系的中心，它们也带有胜利点条件，可以用来得分。
Very similar here, you have suns that they're center of your galaxy, and they also have victory point conditions that they're gonna score.
这里没有负分。
Now no negatives here.
全部都是正分，但你必须满足特定条件才能获得分数，这实际上非常具有挑战性。
They're all positives, but you have to meet specific conditions in order to be able to score the points, and that is actually, in fact, very challenging.
一旦你把太阳放在上面，你接下来要在下面构建的是该太阳系中的不同行星。
Once you have the suns up there, what you're gonna build below it is the different planets in that solar system.
这里的额外挑战是：当你放置第一张卡牌——也就是第一颗行星时，你需要做出一个决定，随着你继续放置卡牌，后续的行星数字是按升序还是降序排列？
The additional challenge here is you have to be able to when you place the first card out there, the first planet out there, you're gonna make a decision as as you continue to play cards there, is it going to be ascending or descending from that specific number of planet that you place out there?
所以数字范围是一到七。
So the numbers run one through seven.
如果你先放一个三，然后在它上面放一个二，那么接下来你唯一能放的只能是一。
So if you place a three out there and then the next planet you put is a two out there on top of the three, the only planet that you could possibly put there would be a one to follow.
现在有一种叫虫洞的机制，挺有意思的。
Now there are wormholes, which is kind of an interesting mechanic.
你可以在这套太阳系中打出虫洞卡，这样就能重新开始升序或降序的数字排列。
There are wormhole cards that you can play in that solar system that will now allow you to restart the ascending or descending numbers.
这就相当于给你一个重新启动的机会。
So it kinda gives you a little way to reboot.
除此之外，还有月球卡，它们必须在你的布局中找到合适的位置，因为需要与特定的行星匹配。
Beyond that, there are also moon cards that have to, you know, find a place within your tableau because they have to match it match certain planets.
最后，真正重要的是，有些卡上会有火箭图案。
And then I think finally, the the only thing else thing that really matters is you're gonna be some of these cards are gonna have rocket ships on them.
当你拥有这些明确的火箭卡时，就能获得火箭奖励。
And when you have rocket ships explicitly here, what's that's going to allow you to do is pick up the rocket ship bonuses.
所以，安东尼，你还记得点城吗？他们有一些特定的终局奖励机制？
So, Anthony, remember Point City, they have those particular, like, end game bonuses?
是的。
Yeah.
这里的情况也是一样的。
Well, that's the same thing here.
只是一些火箭形状的小奖励。
There's just little rocket ship shaped kind of bonuses.
不过话说回来，这是一款非常有趣且引人入胜的游戏，玩法在某种程度上类似于《点沙拉》，你会拥有成堆的卡牌。
Now all that being said, it is a very fun engaging game, and it plays very similar in a way to Point Salad where you're gonna have stacks of cards.
它们会形成一个布局。
They're gonna create a tableau.
当你抽牌时，堆顶的牌会翻过来，重新填充布局，你会持续抽牌，直到游戏结束，因为牌已经抽完了。
And as you pull cards, the the top cards that are in the stacks flip over and, you know, repopulate the Tableau, you're gonna continue to pick cards until the game comes to the end because the the cards have run out.
和《点沙拉》一样。
Again, just like Point Salad.
现在这是有挑战的部分。
Now here's the challenging part.
这和点沙拉不一样。
That's not like Point Salad.
得分的方式有很多，这也是一种典型的‘点沙拉’式机制——我不是指游戏本身，而是指那种通过做多种事情来获取大量分数的整体感觉。
There's a lot of ways to score points, which is also kind of, like, generally a point salad, not the game, but but the general kind of mechanic kind of feel is you should score a lot of points for doing a lot of things.
这正是它真正有趣的地方。
That's what's really fun about it.
去问问斯特凡·菲尔德吧。
Ask Stefan Feld.
他懂的。
He knows.
你可以通过太阳得分。
So you can score points from the suns.
你可以通过独特的行星数量得分。
You can score points from the unique number of planets.
还记得我提到过是从一到七吗？
Remember I mentioned it's like one through seven?
所以你在某个星系中拥有的不同数字越多，就能获得越多分数。
So the more different numbers you have in a particular solar system, the more points you're gonna score.
你还可以通过月亮获得分数。
You can score points from moons.
你也可以通过带有研究标记的不同研究卡来得分。
You could also score points from cards that have, research on them, different research nodules on them.
然后，我们之前也谈过那些形状像火箭的加分项。
And then, again, we talked about the bonus points that are shaped like rocket ships.
最后，有一件事我没提，因为不算重要，但它确实会影响游戏，那就是小行星卡。
And finally, one of things I did not mention because it's not a big deal, but it does come play into into play is there are asteroid cards.
小行星卡会放入你的特定星系中。
Asteroid cards tuck into your, your particular soul system.
同样，拥有最多小行星卡的人得十分，第二名得六分，最后一名得两分。
And again, it's a, whoever has the majority of astrocards scores ten, second place gets six, and the final place gets two.
所以，你可以追求这个，但最终可能只给你10分。
So, you could shoot for that, but it only is gonna score you 10 points, I guess, at the end.
因此，这里的计分方式和你需要考虑的因素更复杂了。
So this the scoring here and the things that you have to consider is more complex.
所以这有点像《点城》，因为《点城》在构建过程中需要考虑更多因素。
So it's a little more like Point City because Point City has a lot more things you have to contemplate as you're building.
《点沙拉》就是：我需要番茄，番茄，番茄，番茄。
So Point Salad is like, I need tomatoes, tomato, tomato, tomato.
对吧？
Right?
《点银河》则是：我需要一颗蓝色行星，因为它和我的恒星匹配。
Point Galaxy is like, I need a blue planet because it matches my sun.
但我找不到蓝色行星。
I can't find a blue planet.
这就开始变成一个问题了。
That's that starts to become an issue.
好的。
Okay.
我该怎么做？
What do I do?
好吧。
Alright.
也许我应该确保自己拥有足够多的不同数字。
Well, maybe I should just make sure I have the right enough different numbers.
好的。
Okay.
也许我可以放一个月亮进去。
Maybe I'll throw a moon in there.
所以游戏结束时，你已经获得了分数。
So at the end of the game, you've scored points.
现在，你面前的牌阵决定了你最终能得多少分，因为其他人会拿走卡片。
Now the tableau in front of you really determines how many points you're gonna score because other people take cards.
你能感觉到他们在追求粉红色的星球。
You can get a sense of like, hey, they're going for pink planets.
我正在追求粉红色的星球。
I'm going for pink planets.
我在这儿要惨了。
I'm gonna have a bad time here.
对。
Right.
但即便如此，你还是能从很多不同的方面得分。
But nonetheless, you could score points from a lot of different things.
我觉得这个游戏的玩法不够精炼。
I don't feel like this game is as sharp
嗯。
Mhmm.
它的玩法也不够流畅。
With or sleek with its gameplay.
好的。
Okay.
比如，点沙拉就是点沙拉。
Like, Point Salad is Point Salad.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
就是砰、砰、砰。
It's bam, bam, bam.
它很轻松。
It's light.
它很快。
It's it's fast.
它很直观。
It's it's intuitive.
你玩点城时，会更需要深思熟虑，对吧？
You play Point City, it's a little more contemplative, right?
比如，哦，我得先积累足够多这个图标，才能在后期得分。
Like, oh, I wanna build enough of this icon in order to be able to score these things later.
在某种程度上，这有点难。
It's difficult on some level.
点银河则结合了这两种玩法。
Point Galaxy kind of combines both of them.
它稍微重一些。
It's a little bit heavier.
但其实没必要这么重。
It doesn't need to be.
只是，again，它增加了更多的认知负担。
It's just, again, it's more cognitive load.
随着游戏进行，你得同时权衡更多事情，比如，我有没有拿到足够多的这个、那个和别的东西？
You're you're juggling more things as as the kind of the game goes on of, you know, am I scoring enough of this, that, and the other?
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