第573期——三月游戏狂热：“最佳机制”淘汰赛：决赛轮！

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为从游戏体验的角度来看，这更有戏剧性。

So I think that's a little more dramatic as far as gameplay is concerned.

所以我们选择强制投入机制。

So we're gonna go force commitment.

我同意。

I agree.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们只看上世纪七十年代的游戏，我不知道我会怎么想。

And, like, if, you know, if we were looking at, like, nineteen seventies games only Yeah.

我不知道我会怎么想。

I don't know what I would think.

但强制投入这个机制，我觉得在很多现代桌游中都很常见，是的。

But forced commitment is I feel like it's a mechanic that we see in a lot of modern board games Yes.

就像你所说的，比如《沙丘：帝国》或者类似的《沙丘》原版、《战锤：斯凯斯》，或者任何Airglings的大盒游戏。

Like you said, with Dune Imperium or, you know, similarly in the the OG Dune or in Scythe or in really any of Airglings big box games.

是的。

Yes.

所以我同意。

So I agree.

强制承诺。

Forced commitment.

就是这样。

There you go.

好了，各位。

Alright, folks.

这就是全部了。

There you have it.

我们有四个游戏从工人和行动导向的区域转移了。

We have the four moving on from the worker and action focused region.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

我们来看看卡牌和牌组的侧重。

Let's look at card and deck focus.

天哪。

Oh, boy.

好的。

Alright.

抱歉。

Sorry.

这里我们有第一点：牌组构建。

Here we have number one, deck building.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

所以就是所有这些游戏。

So just the all all the games.

所有的卡组构建。

All the deck buildings.

是的。

Yep.

对比第九点：玩家能力可变。

Versus number nine, variable player powers.

对。

Yeah.

所以，好吧。

So, okay.

我可以告诉你我更喜欢什么。

I can tell you what I like more.

当然。

Sure.

绝对是玩家能力可变。

It's definitely variable player powers.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

只要游戏本身好玩，把这玩意儿放进桌游里简直太酷了。

Like, it's just the coolest thing to put in a board game as long as the game is good.

是的。

Yeah.

不过，牌组构建出现在我喜爱的太多游戏中了。

Deck building, though, is in so many games that I love.

对。

Yes.

从最基础的核心形式来看，我可有可无。

Like, in its core basic form, I can take it or leave it.

我不是多喜欢《 dominion》这种纯粹的牌组构建游戏，但那确实是纯正的牌组构建。

Not, like, not like the biggest fan of Dominion in the world, but that's just like pure deck build.

对。

Yes.

但当你在上面叠加其他元素时，当然。

But when you layer other things on top of it Sure.

当你加入其他机制和想法，把牌组构建作为推动未来行动的引擎时。

And you add in other mechanics and other ideas and you just use the deck building as an engine to build future actions.

是的。

Yes.

这太酷了。

That's so cool.

我们还在不断看到它被运用的新方式。

And we keep seeing new ways it can be used.

在《Dominion》问世近二十年后，我们依然能看到它被用来创造新玩法。

Almost twenty years after Dominion, we're still seeing new ways it can be used.

现在世界上一些最热门的电子游戏都是牌组构建类游戏。

Some of the biggest video games in the world are deck building games now.

确实如此。

It's true.

我觉得我还是得选择卡组构建，尽管我也很喜欢可变的玩家能力。

I I think I have to go deck building even though I love me some variable player powers.

这其实又是另一个奇怪的矛盾，因为卡组构建游戏通常不可避免地会演变成可变的玩家能力，因为你如何构建卡组，就决定了你独特的技能组合。

It's really it's again, it's another strange conflict because deck building games typically inevitably become variable player powers because how you build your deck is now your unique power set.

没错。

True.

而且同样地，这取决于具体的游戏，会有些许不同。

So and again, depending on the game, that varies a little bit.

但一般来说，我的卡组能做这个，对吧。

But generally, like, my deck does this, like Right.

你知道的，而你的卡组能做那个。

You know, versus your deck that does that.

而可变的玩家能力，你基本上是从游戏开始就拥有了。

Whereas variable player powers, you kind of start the game with that.

所以这通常是有帮助的，因为它让你能在游戏开始时就设定策略，比如：我必须走这条路，因为这个原因。

So that can be generally helpful because it allows you to set a strategy at the beginning of the game and be like, this is the road I need to run down because of this reason.

另一方面，可变玩家能力的问题在于，有时候它们并不那么平衡。

Now the other side of that too is the variable player powers are difficult because sometimes they're not as balanced.

当然。

Sure.

有时候它们是指导性的，这固然是好事，但有时候它们也是指导性的，这反而是坏事。

And sometimes they are the the good news is sometimes they're directive, and the bad news is sometimes they're directive.

所以你必须做你获得的那件事。

So you have to do the thing that you got.

否则，你就是在放弃你的能力，虽然你仍然可能赢，但我也说不准。

Otherwise, you're kind of sacrificing the power, which you could still win, but also I don't know.

我觉得

I think The

游戏的设计就是让你做这件事，所以你应该能做。

game's designed for you to do that thing, so you should be able do.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

而且有时候它还具有主题性，这也挺棒的。

And sometimes it can be thematic, which is also cool.

比如，是的。

Like, yeah.

我总是奇怪地感到更开心，当我在游戏中看到玩家能力多样化时。

I I'm always I'm always oddly happier when I see variable player powers come into play in a game.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但牌组构建是一个非常重要的机制。

But deck building deck building is such a major mechanic.

这很难。

It's hard.

我不确定我是否在法律上能挑战头号种子。

I don't know if legally I can go against the number one seed here.

哦，天哪。

Oh, jeez.

我想说，听我说。

I like like listen.

我喜欢你那个观点，即牌组构建是在构建你自己的玩家能力。

I like your argument that deck building is building your own player power.

是的。

Yeah.

而可变玩家能力是别人给你的。

Whereas variable player powers is it's given to you.

而且无法保证它是平衡的。

It's And there's no guarantee that it's balanced.

好吧。

Alright.

你这话把我给说服了。

You you got me on that.

所以咱们下一轮就玩牌组构建吧，因为我觉得有时候变量玩家能力并不利于你。

So let's let's do deck building moves on the next round because I think that's because you do have sometimes where variable player powers do not work to your benefit.

你就想，哦，我抽到了这个，比如《宇宙碰撞》。

You're just like, oh, I got that thing, like cosmic encounter.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

或者像《喀里多尼亚的氏族》。

Or or like clans of Caledonia.

有时候你会抽到其中一个氏族。

Sometimes you get one of those clans.

你会想，我不想玩这个。

You're like, I don't wanna do this.

我不想整个游戏都只做威士忌。

I don't wanna just make whiskey the whole game.

我不。

I don't.

不会。

No.

你不会做威士忌。

You won't make whiskey.

你会喜欢的。

You'll like it.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你不使用玩家能力，你会处于巨大劣势。

If you don't use the player power, you're at a huge disadvantage.

很大。

Big.

对。

Yeah.

好吧。

Fine.

哦，他是做威士忌的那个人。

Oh, he's the whiskey guy.

好的。

Okay.

大家都做那个阻止威士忌的事情。

Everyone do the thing that stops the whiskey.

你就会想，天啊。

You're like, oh, god.

是的。

Yeah.

或者像马可波罗那种，你需要两个工人，而且得经常旅行。

Or like the Marco Polo one where you the two workers, you have to travel a lot.

我觉得我想在游戏里做点别的事情。

I'm like, I wanna do other stuff in the game.

我不想只是旅行。

I don't wanna just travel.

不。

Nope.

你现在是个旅行达人了。

You're a travel guy now.

是的。

Yep.

你会得到一大笔钱。

You get a bunch of money.

你用它来搬家。

You spend it to move.

接下来三个小时你只会做这件事。

That is all you're doing for the next three hours.

没错。

That's true.

好吧。

Alright.

行吧。

Fine.

好吧。

Alright.

我们继续看下一场比赛。

Let's move on to the next matchup here.

我们有第12号，指挥卡牌。

We have number 12, command cards.

你的指挥颜色、战斗领主等等。

Your commanding colors, your battle lords, and whatnot.

对阵第4号，封闭 drafting。

Versus number four, closed drafting.

你的七座奇迹、血怒等等。

Your seven wonders, your blood rages, and whatnot.

我觉得这两个游戏都特别特别有趣。

I think these are both so, so fun.

是的。

Yeah.

在最佳状态下，它们都是市面上最顶尖的游戏之一。

And at their best, they're amongst some of the best games out there.

这很难抉择。

It's a hard one.

是的。

Yeah.

指挥色卡这个机制真是太出色、太独特了，我觉得没有任何其他游戏——再说一遍，我不是战争游戏爱好者，也不怎么玩这个类型，只是偶尔接触——能让我觉得有比这更好的体验。

Command colors, the command cards is such a wonderfully brilliant, unique game mechanic, and I don't think anything in my and again, I'm I'm not a war gamer, or I don't, you know, play in that genre too much, a little bit, to make me feel like I mean, like, there's just nothing better than that.

是的。

Yeah.

封闭式抽牌很有趣，因为你知道它一定会出现。

The the closed draft is fun because you know it's you know it's gonna be in there.

你知道这张牌每个人都能拿到，你能感觉到哦，这些牌已经没了。

You know it's available to everybody, and you can get a sense of, like, oh, these cards are gone.

所以有人正在构建这个组合。

Therefore, someone's building this.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

你把洛基这张牌传给下一位玩家。

You you you pass that Loki card to the next player.

你心里想着：别打这张牌啊。

You're like, please don't play.

求求了，让洛基牌回到我手里吧。

Please let the Loki card get back to me.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这几乎变成了一种独特的‘碰运气’游戏。

That becomes almost like its own kind of press your luck game

是的。

Yeah.

就是那种：我会不会再看到这张牌冒出来呢？

Where it's just like, am I gonna see that card again kinda come together and pop up?

这非常具有元游戏性，为原本缺乏互动性的游戏增添了一层互动性。

So It's very meta, and it's a way it it adds a layer of interactivity often to games that wouldn't otherwise have it.

当然。

Sure.

有时候，这是一种被添加到原本没有此机制的游戏中的机制。

Like and it sometimes it's a it's a mechanic you add to a game that doesn't already have it.

比如我知道《地球改造》有这个变体，但我从不玩没有抽牌环节的版本，因为你既想要那种变化性，又想了解其他玩家可能有什么牌。

Like, I know Terraformers has that variant, but I would never play it without drafting because you want to have that variability, but you also wanna have that little bit of knowledge about what other people's cards might be.

是的。

Yes.

因为它能稍微引导你一下。

Because it can help guide you a little.

所以这相当于给游戏增加了一整层元机制，嗯。

So it's just it's a whole meta layer on top of a game Mhmm.

一方面，如果你非常熟悉这个游戏，这会很有趣。

Which on one hand is fun if you know the game really well.

另一方面，如果游戏对你来说是新的，它可能会让人不知所措。

On the other hand, it can be overwhelming if the game's new to you.

你会想：我不知道该选什么，更别提怎么干扰别人了。

You're like, I have no idea what to pick and I certainly don't know how to mess up other people.

指挥卡简化了一切。

Command cards simplify everything.

你会想：我有这五张卡。

You're like, I have these five cards.

这里有三张。

Three of them over here.

这一张在这儿。

One's over here.

这一张在这儿。

One's over here.

是的。

Yeah.

我这边有棋子。

I have guys over here.

我这边没有棋子。

I don't have any guys over here.

我想我该去那边了。

I guess I'm going over here.

这中间有策略和战术，但它实际上是把一个桌游系统简化了，让它变得非常易懂。

Like, it's like, there's strategy and tactics to it, but it really it takes a board game system, and it boils it down and makes it so accessible.

当然。

Sure.

而且快速。

And fast.

像那些游戏通常只需要一小时到一个半小时，而大型游戏则要四个小时。

Like, those games take like an hour, hour and a half versus like four hours for a big one.

所以我认为在这种情况下我会选择指挥卡牌。

So I think I would go with commanding cards in this case.

当然。

Sure.

因为它非常独特，并且从根本上改变了我与整个游戏类型互动的方式。

Because it's so unique and because it fundamentally alters how I interact with a whole genre of games.

当然。

Sure.

而紧密 drafting 通常只是叠加在已有的东西之上。

Whereas close drafting is often layered on top of things that already exist.

我觉得紧密 drafting 是一种高级的游戏机制，因为就像你说的，玩这种机制时你需要了解很多东西。

I think close drafting is an advanced game mechanic, because, like you said, one of the things you have to I mean, there's a lot of things you have to know when you when you deal with a a close drafting.

对吧？

Right?

如果你玩过《Gricola》，我记得确实发生过这种情况，当时用的是随机牌组。

If you play a Gricola and I remember I remember the situation actually happening and playing with whatever the random deck is.

我手里拿到一张牌，它会扣掉很多分数，但同时赋予你一个超强的特殊能力。

And I got a card in my hand, which was, like, negative the like, all of the points, but it gives you this amazing special ability.

我当时想，这太棒了，我真喜欢这个效果，但扣分太多了。

And I'm like, that's real I would love this, but it's too many negative points.

于是我把它传了出去，结果下一轮发到的牌是一张宗教人物卡，能抵消其他所有牌的负分。

And passed it along, and then the next hand of cards was, like, this religious figure card that, like, negates all negative points of other cards.

哦，天哪。

Oh, no.

而且我

And I

我当时就想，我不知道这张牌在这里。

was just like, I didn't know this card was in here.

我不知道这张牌存在。

I didn't know this card existed.

然后传给了下一个人，显然他们拿到了这两张牌。

Then passed it to the next had to pass it to the next person, and obviously they got both.

是的。

Yeah.

因为他们知道这张牌在牌组里。

Because they knew it was in the deck.

现在，对。

Now Yeah.

这太惨了。

That's rough.

因为，再说一遍，像你提到的，任何你进入的游戏，比如《血怒》或者《七大奇迹》，如果你不知道有哪些牌可用，比如《七大奇迹》中的行会，你就不知道该朝着什么方向发展。

Because, again, like, any game that you come into, like you mentioned, like Blood Rage or even Seven Wonders, if you don't know what's available, like the guilds and Seven Wonders, then you you don't know what to build towards.

指挥卡让我们这边的游戏变得简单和流畅了。

The command cards, ours, it does simplify and streamline the game.

但你也会遇到糟糕的手牌，比如所有行动都只能从左边进行。

But you can also have bad hands where, like, everything moves from the left.

你知道的，比如左边根本没有部队。

You know, like, don't have any troops on the left.

对。

Right.

这可不是个好时候。

It's like, this is not a good time.

我玩得一点都不开心。

I'm not having fun with this.

为什么我不能把所有行动都移动，而不是只从右边？

Like, why why couldn't I move everything instead of just, like Right.

为什么要给一个没有部队的侧面下命令？

Give orders to to a side where I don't have troops?

安东尼，我要进行闭门 drafting。

Anthony, I'm gonna go close drafting.

我要，我觉得我们得把这轮过掉。

I'm gonna I'm I think we need to roll this off.

好的。

Okay.

我们来过吧。

We'll roll it.

这两个我都喜欢，所以我没什么意见。

I like both of these, so I have no problem with it.

当然。

Sure.

我也是。

Same.

你那边是奇数。

You're odds.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

看看我这次能不能做对。

See if I can do this correctly this time.

11。

11.

太好了。

Yay.

封闭划船。

Closed rafting.

哦，封闭划船进入下一轮。

Oh, close rafting moves on to next round.

好的。

Alright.

是的。

Yeah.

接下来是六号，集卡对三号，手牌管理。

Next up, we have number six, set collection versus number three, hand management.

当然。

Sure.

这就像大学里的主修专业，

It's like a major in college,

手牌管理。

hand management.

我知道。

I know.

是的。

Yeah.

手牌管理很重要。

Hand management's important.

显然，这适用于任何卡牌游戏。

Obviously, you this this applies to any card game.

你需要按正确的顺序出牌。

You need to play the cards in the right order.

你必须以正确的顺序来操控它们。

You have to have to manipulate them in the right order.

有时候，你真的必须把它们按正确的顺序排列。

You have to sometimes, you literally have to put them in the right order.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这其实是一种更广泛的机制，因为它可以用多种方式来理解和管理。

And it's it's kind of like a a broader mechanic because it can be interpreted or or managed in all these different ways.

如果你玩的是那种从手牌出牌、且其他玩家无法看到你手牌信息的卡牌游戏，那确实如此。

Really, if like if you like playing a card game in which you're playing from your hand for like closed information to other people playing it out Sure.

那就是我所做的。

That's what that is, which I do.

我喜欢纸牌游戏。

I like card games.

集卡机制则恰恰相反，你是把牌摆在自己面前组成套装。

Set collection is kind of the opposite where you're building sets out in front of you.

通常会形成某种牌阵。

Often going to a tableau of some kind.

每个人都能看到你在构建什么。

Everybody can see what you're creating.

你能看到自己正在搭建的东西。

You can see what you're building.

所以这是一种完全不同的方式。

So it's a very different approach.

我认为它并不一定与卡牌和牌组那么紧密相关。

It's not necessarily as tied, I think, to cards and decks.

是的

Yeah.

就像手牌管理那样。

As as hand management would be.

当然。

Sure.

所以我会选择手牌管理。

So I'm gonna go with hand management here.

但我确实喜欢这两种。

But I I do like both.

是的。

Yeah.

集卡机制，我认为更容易一些。

Set collection again, I think is the easier of the mechanics.

就像你说的，它是摆在明面上的。

Like you said, it's it's out front.

这是你正在组合的东西。

It's what you're putting together.

你的点沙拉是经典，或者说现代经典类型的集合机制。

Your point salad is classic well, modern day classic kind of set collection.

手牌管理当然更困难，也更具动态性，因为你得根据手里的牌来制定制胜策略。

Hand management is certainly definitely more difficult and dynamic across the way as far as, like, how do you put together a winning play based upon what you have?

比如《指环王》第二版。

So, like, War of the Rings second edition.

对吧？

Right?

那些卡牌极其强大，你如何打出以及何时打出，都会造成毁灭性的影响。

Like, those cards are just incredibly powerful, and how you play them and when you play them is just devastating.

所以这是简单与复杂之间的区别。

So it's a little simple versus complex.

我的意思是，好吧。

I mean alright.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我选集合收集。

I'm gonna go with set collection.

我觉得我们也得把这个放一放。

I'm gonna I think we need to roll this one off too.

好的。

Okay.

有人今天想掷骰子。

Someone wants to roll dice today.

我们连骰子都还没到呢。

We're not we're not even to the dice yet.

好吧。

Alright.

三。

Three.

嘿。

Hey.

集卡。

Set collection.

笨骰子。

Stupid die.

我已经赢了两次。

I have now collected two wins.

太好了。

Yay.

为集卡欢呼。

Yay for sets.

我需要再一个骰子。

I need another die.

我这儿还有一个。

I got another one over here.

那是不同的，我的蓝色骰子已经退役了。

That's a different I have the blue die is retired.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

他拿出了灌铅的骰子，各位。

He's bringing in the loaded dice, folks.

是的。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

如果找不到更好的，我接下来得去找金属骰子了。

I have to go find the metal dice next if I can't find a better

一个。

one.

天哪。

Jeez.

在桌子上砸出个凹痕。

Put a dent in the table.

好的。

Alright.

接下来是七号：战役战斗卡对二号：多功能卡。

Next up, we have number seven, campaign battle card driven versus number two, multi use cards.

这个很简单。

This one's easy.

多功能卡太棒了。

Multi use cards are awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

多功能卡简直是进阶到另一个层次，感谢所有使用它们的游戏设计师，我无法想象他们要花多大功夫才能设计出这些卡牌，并平衡它们的机制。

Multi use cards are incredibly next level, and God bless all the game designers who use them because I can't imagine what they have to go through to figure out how to put those together and how to balance those things out.

而且，again，有太多不同的方式了。

And and again, there's so many different ways.

你点击、翻转，角落里还有各种效果。

You tap, you turn, you have things on the the corners.

背面还有一些对你有利的机制。

The backside has something that benefits you.

太疯狂了。

Like, crazy.

他们居然能把这些东西组合得这么巧妙，真是疯狂。

Crazy how they they kinda put that together.

不。

No.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

而且它有上百种不同的使用方式，简直太酷了。

Like, it's and the the 100 different ways that you can make it work, it's so cool.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

也有很多游戏使用它。

There's a lot of games that use it too.

每当我看到多功能卡时，我都特别开心。

I'm always happy when I see multiuse cards.

总是，总是很开心。

Always, always happy.

再开心不过了。

Can't be happier.

所以，是的，我想要多功能卡。

So, yeah, I'm gonna want multiuse cards.

好的。

Alright.

正如我所说，很简单。

Like I said, easy.

二号种子，宝贝。

Number two seed, baby.

好的。

Alright.

接下来是区域控制与策略区域，里面有很多拍卖机制。

Next up, the area control and strategy region, which has a bunch of auctions in it.

所以我们马上会讲到。

So we'll get to that.

第16号，可变开局，嗯。

Number 16, variable setup Mhmm.

对阵第八号，网络与路线构建。

Versus number eight, network and route building.

啊，来了。

Ah, here we are.

两种非常非常不同的东西。

Two very, very different things.

变量设置是一种机制，但同时也是游戏的一部分。

Variable setup is a mechanic, but it's also just kind of a part of a game.

它是开局的第一击。

It's the that opening the opening salvo.

在某些情况下，它可能是最精彩的部分之一。

And in some cases, it can be one of the best parts.

是的。

Like Sure.

《天顶帝国》的设置过程非常具有元游戏性。

The setup process for Twilight Imperium, it's very, very meta.

太棒了。

It's awesome.

对。

Yeah.

你绝对应该严格按照规则书上的方式来操作。

You absolutely should do it the full way that the rule book says.

不要提前设置好这个游戏。

Don't preset that game.

而网络和根系建设往往就是整个游戏的核心。

Whereas network and root building is tends to be the whole game.

对吧？

Right?

如果你在做这个，那通常就是你正在做的事情。

If you're doing that, it's often the thing you're doing.

是的。

Sure.

这是火车游戏。

It's train games.

这是路线建设类游戏。

It's it's route building games.

它通常是取货和送货类游戏的核心机制。

It's often the backbone of things like a pickup and deliver type of game.

我超爱这类游戏。

I I love those.

我觉得它们很有趣。

I think they're fun.

但我确实很喜欢那种可变的开局设置。

But I I do love me a variable setup.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这有点难，安东尼，因为我认为网络和路线构建才是这些游戏的核心。

I I think it's kinda hard, Anthony, because I I think the network and route building is is the core of most is the core of those games.

对。

Yeah.

而可变的开局设置只是辅助性的。

Whereas a variable setup can is just kind of like ancillary.

对吧？

Right?

就是说，还有变量设置，对吧？

It's just like, and there's variable setup, right?

再次强调，有时它对于平衡情况是必要的。

Again, sometimes it's necessary for balancing situations.

是的。

Yeah.

而且有时扩展包会引入变量设置，这有点奇怪，因为这意味着你玩完基础版后，现在要玩一个更合理的版本——每个人不总是在固定的位置上。

And sometimes expansions bring in variable setup, which is weird because it's just like, you played the base game, now play a version that actually makes sense, where everybody is not necessarily in the exact spots every time.

那是什么？

What was that?

《权力的游戏》桌游，其中是的。

Game of Thrones, the board game, where Yeah.

就是说，先生，我们只有x个玩家。

It's just like, well, sir, we only have x number of players.

那个位置会为那个人空出来。

That spot's gonna be open for that person.

所以，是的，这会是一场短局游戏。

So, yeah, it's gonna be a short game.

所以，是的，我会说变量设置不应该获胜，因为它只是一个附加元素，而网络和路线构建才是核心机制。

So, yeah, I'm gonna go I mean, variable setup should not win because it is an additional thing, whereas network and route building is, like, a main mechanic.

我本不想这么说，尽管变量设置确实能解决问题，但我还是选网络和路线构建。

I'm I hate to say it, even though variable set does fix things, I'm gonna go with network and route building.

好吧。

Alright.

看看我能不能再赢一次掷骰子。

See if I can win another die roll.

来吧，收集卡牌。

Come on, set collection.

九。

Nine.

来吧。

Come on.

九。

Nine.

我的集合已经赢了三局。

My set has moved up to three wins.

白色骰子的扇形也一样。

The white dice fan too.

我们还需要一个。

We need another one.

好的。

Okay.

接下来是封闭经济拍卖。

Next up, closed economy auction.

是的。

Yes.

所以钱会留在经济体系内。

So the money stays in the economy.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

或者荷兰式拍卖。

Or the Dutch auction.

我喜欢荷兰式拍卖。

I like the Dutch auction.

我觉得我也喜欢荷兰式拍卖。

I think I also like the Dutch auction.

我觉得这个机制就是，有些东西就在那儿，你得咬紧牙关看着价格一路下降，却不能表现出何时该出手。

I think the idea that just, like, something's out there and then you have to, like, grind your teeth as it goes down and and not show when to pull the trigger.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这个机制太巧妙了，非常出色。

I I think that's such a brilliant, brilliant mechanic.

我完全同意。

I a 100% agree.

我觉得这总是更有趣。

I think it's always more interesting.

有更多的互动。

There's more interaction.

有更多的策略。

There's more strategy.

有更多的虚张声势。

There's a lot more bluffing.

在这种背景下，虚张声势更有道理。

The bluffing makes more sense in that context.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得封闭经济有点没那么有趣，因为就像，哦，我赢了这笔钱，但我又把钱给了你。

And I think there's something a little less fun about the closed economy because it's like, oh, I won this, but now I gave you the money.

你下一轮会赢的。

You'll win the next one.

就像对啊。

And just like Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

感觉确实更像一个跷跷板式来回拉扯。

It does feel like more of like a seesaw yo yo type.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那很简单。

That was easy.

好的。

Alright.

荷兰式拍卖。

Dutch auction.

给你。

There you go.

是的。

Yeah.

根本没花多久。

Didn't take long at all.

不。

No.

对。

Yeah.

鸭子拍卖胜出。

Duck auction for the win.

好的。

Alright.

第11号，方格网格。

Number 11, the square grid.

当然。

Sure.

为什么不呢？

Why not?

经典经典的方格网格，各位。

Classic classic square grid, y'all.

跳棋、国际象棋， versus 英式拍卖。

Checkers, chess, versus the English auction.

好的。

Okay.

老派的竞标抬价。

Good old fashioned bidding it up.

好吧，如果你要往下走，也得往上走。

Well, if you're gonna go down, you also have to go up.

我选择英式拍卖。

I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with English auction.

而且，虽然我确实尊重这个方格布局，当然，你必须这么做。

Also because, like, while I do respect this the square grid, of course, like, you have to.

这只不过是方式而已。

Like, it's just the way.

当你看到方格布局出现时，你就会想：老兄，你真是个高手。

Like, you just you you see the square grid coming, you're just like, dude, you are the man.

但同时，你也是一个非常老的人。

But also, you're a very old man.

是的。

Yeah.

非常非常老。

Very, very old.

你应该坐那边去。

You should sit over there.

我要玩这些叫六边形的东西，它们

I'm going to play with these things called hexes, which

我去给你拿瓶苏打水。

I'm gonna I'm gonna get you a soda.

好。

Yeah.

放松点。

Relax.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

对。

Yeah.

注意你的故事。

Watch your stories.

我会的。

I'll do that.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢那种方格棋盘游戏。

I love, like, square grid games.

有很多这类游戏是我最喜欢的。

There's a bunch of them that are among my favorites.

但就像你说的，既然2026年我们有六边形游戏，为什么还要玩方格游戏呢？

But like you said, why would we be playing square grid games when we have hex games in 2026?

比如，如果国际象棋是今年才发明的，它很可能就是一种六边形游戏。

Like, if chess was invented this year, it'd probably be a hex game.

当然。

So Sure.

我也会选择拍卖制，也就是英式拍卖。

I'm gonna go with auction English auction as well.

我也是。

Same.

好的。

Alright.

我们的第三名继续前进。

Our number three moves on.

那里真是个大惊喜。

Big surprise there.

既然我们说了这么多关于六边形网格的好话，那么第二名是六边形网格，还是第十名是六边形网格？

So now that we said so many nice things about hex grids, number two, Hexgrid or number 10, Hexgrid.

抱歉。

Sorry.

是的。

Yeah.

而第二名是‘我切你选’。

Versus number two, I cut you choose.

啊，这真是个讽刺。

Ah, the irony there.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得六边形网格应该是当今桌游的核心基础，而且从科学角度来说它也是最优的形状，能最大程度地利用空间、保证连通性，还有其他很多优势。

I mean, Hexgrid is the the base of the core of the modern day board game, I suspect, and scientifically proven as, like, the best shape as far as, like, how it kind of maximizes space and connectivity and things.

毕竟蜜蜂老早就懂这个道理了。

I mean, bees knew about this forever.

所以必须得给这些小蜜蜂点个赞。

So, shout out to the bees out there.

对。

Yeah.

我切你选这个游戏太有趣了。

I cut you choose is so much fun.

我不知道。

I don't know.

就像我知道。

Like I know.

但我们能将一个只在五款游戏中使用过的机制推到多远呢？

But how far can we push a mechanic that has, like, five games?

这倒是真的。

That's true.

是的。

Yeah.

这看起来太不对劲了。

It seems very wrong.

你是不是一位正在构思游戏的设计师？

Are you a game designer out there who's looking to put a game together?

请做一个我切你选的游戏。

Make an I cut, you choose game, please.

根本不够。

There's just not enough.

我会选Hexgrid，因为我在批评了Square Grid之后，觉得必须得选它。

I'm gonna say Hexgrid because I feel like I have to after, like, downing on Square Grid so much.

但说实话，我真的很喜欢Hex Grid游戏。

But and, you know, I do love me a good Hex Grid game.

我玩过四百个小时的《文明五》。

I've played four hundred hours of Civilization five.

当然。

Sure.

但我切你选这个游戏真的很有趣。

But I cut you choose this very fun.

所以我就

So I

你切我选，这真的很有趣。

cut you choose this very fun.

你觉得怎么样？

What do you think?

我的意思是，如果你没提出这一点，我会说我们得掷骰子决定，但你确实提出了这个该死的观点，而且你

I mean, you if you didn't make that point, I would say that we would have to roll it off, but you made that damn point, and you

我提出了一个观点。

I made a point.

真是烦人的观点，总在做聪明事，逼我投我不愿意投的票。

Stupid points, doing smart things and making me vote for things I don't wanna vote for.

好吧。

Alright.

六边形。

Hex.

搞个六边形吧，老兄。

Hex it up, man.

对。

Yeah.

这都是你的错啊，兄弟。

It's your fault, man.

你哪边都能选。

You can go either way.

我可以来掷骰子。

I can roll the die.

抱歉。

Sorry.

抱歉我剪坏了你的鞋子。

Sorry I cut your shoes.

行吧。

Alright.

之前还有更多游戏可选，我觉得，我觉得它本该能表现得更好的。

There were more games, I I I can imagine it would do better.

我还不知道，也许数学实在太难了。

I don't I still don't maybe maybe the math is just too hard.

肯定是这样。

It must be.

这中间一定有什么奇怪的地方。

There must be something weird about it.

就是行不通。

It just doesn't work.

现在业界基于这个机制或者以此为核心玩法的游戏太少了，但当你需要这么做时，那种时刻真的非常吸引人，我不知道该怎么说。

It's just so few games out there in the industry that's based on that or has as a main mechanic, but it's such a gripping moment when you have So to do I don't I I don't know.

也许吧，我们需要请一位游戏设计理论方面的人士来我们的播客，解释一下为什么这不是一个常见的东西。

Maybe I mean, we need to have somebody from, like, game design theory come on to the podcast and explain why that's not a thing.

对。

Right.

因为这确实应该让我们请埃里克·齐默尔曼来谈谈。

Because that should Let's get Eric Zimmerman on here.

因为它融合了许多其他优秀的机制。

Because it combines a it combines a lot of the other great mechanics.

这是一种碰运气的游戏。

It's it's a press your luck.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

这就像一种拍卖情境。

It's an auction kind of situation.

比如，我要放弃什么，又会得到什么？

Like, what am I gonna give up to what am I gonna get?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，这里面有一些隐藏的信息，别人并不明白你为什么选择这个而不是那个。

So, you know, there's some hidden knowledge that someone doesn't know why you're taking something versus something else.