BGI 402 关于2026年的那一集

调查问题是：您最常在哪里购买游戏？

The survey questions were, which place did you use the most for buying games?

如果与您之前的回答不同，您希望未来更多地在哪里购买游戏？

And if it's different than your previous answer, which place are you hoping to use more for buying games?

在2026年。

In 2026.

在2026年。

In 2026.

相对于2026年。

Versus 2026.

如果不介意的话，我来读一下这些统计数据。

And if you don't mind, I will read some of those stats.

在第一个问题中，21%的受访者表示，他们在2025年主要通过本地游戏店、爱好店和书店购买游戏。

21% of the respondents to the first question, where did you buy most of your games, bought their games via the local game store, Hobby, and Bookstores in 2025.

但对于后续问题——您希望未来在哪里购买游戏？

But for that follow-up question, where do you believe you're hoping to buy?

你将在哪里购买？

Where will you buy?

或者，你知道，你认为2026年你会在哪里购买游戏？

Or, you know, where do you believe you'll buy games in 2026?

33.2%的人表示，他们主要会从本地游戏商店购买游戏。

Thirty 3.2% said that they'll be buying their games from local game stores mainly.

这比2021年几乎增长了整整50%，达到33.2%。

So that is almost exactly a a 50% increase from '21 to 33.2%.

我从ICV2来源了解到，数据显示，桌游爱好者们更倾向于在2026年从本地游戏商店购买游戏，这非常令人鼓舞。

And I c v two, this is coming from an I c v two source, were saying that it's very encouraging to see that the data from the tabletop fans of of Stoneware would prefer to buy their games at local game stores in 2026.

这与独立零售商在2025年蓬勃发展并延续至2026年的趋势一致。

And this is in line with a trend of independent retailers flourishing in 2025 heading into 2026.

我找到的另一部分数据是，是的。

The other part of the data I found yeah.

我发现另一部分数据非常有趣：只有16%的受访者表示，他们在2025年通过众筹获得游戏。

Other part of the data I found really interesting is it was only 16% of the respondents that said they received their games in '25 from crowdfunding.

你有看到有多少百分比的人说他们明年会进行众筹吗？

And did you see what percentage said they would crowdfund next year?

我没看到。

I did not see.

这真的很有趣。

This is really interesting.

2%。

2%.

告诉我。

Tell me.

2%。

2%.

哇。

Wow.

2%的人说他们打算

2% said they're going

2%的人表示，他们计划在2026年通过众筹活动购买游戏。

2% said they were looking to buy their games in '26 from crowdfunding campaigns.

哦，这很有趣。

Oh, is interesting.

现在，也许我现在的想法可以有两种解读：这

Now Maybe what I Now that could be interpreted two This

这可能是Stonemaier向Stonemaier的受众提问的结果。

could be a this is a Stonemire audience being asked by Stonemire.

没错。

And Right.

众所周知，Jamie很早就大力投入众筹，但后来发表了一系列文章，决定不再进行任何众筹。

Famously, Jamie was really big into crowdfunding early, but then had a whole series of articles and decided not to crowdfund any further.

因此，这可能是Stonemaier的受众对Stonemaier的一种反制反应，表明他们不再参与众筹。

So this could be reactionary that the Stonemaier audience is telling Stonemaier that they don't crowdfund.

如果能在更广泛的受众中看到这些问题，会很有趣。

It would be interesting to see this in a wider audience, these these questions.

如果你仔细想想，也可能是某个玩家仍然想从本地游戏店购买更多游戏，或者只是想出门去获取游戏，但当他们查看众筹平台上的游戏时，会更加挑剔，因此在那里花费的钱更少。

And if you think a little bit about it, it could also be that a given gamer might still want to buy more, right, from local game stores or just want to go out and and acquire games, but as they look at games on crowdfunding, they're more selective and therefore don't spend as much there.

我觉得有好几种可能性。

I I it's I I think a bunch of ways.

我认为这涉及到‘购物’的定义。

I think it comes to the definition of shopping.

如果我要买游戏，那就不算众筹。

If I'm going to shop for games, that's not crowdfunding.

如果我去买游戏，我会去——嗯。

If I shop for games, I'm gonna go Mhmm.

在线上或者本地游戏店。

Online or to a local game store.

而如果是——。

Whereas Yep.

如果有一款我想要的游戏在众筹平台上，我可能会在那里买。

If there's a game I want, if it's on crowdfunding, maybe I'll get it there.

所以非常

So very

语义上的

semantic

文章吧，也许，既然我们已经明确表示SnowmierJamie是业内最棒的营销人员，也许我们应该让他为整个行业做一次这样的调查。

article, maybe, you know, since we have stated categorically that SnowmierJamie is like the best marketing person in the industry, maybe we should have him run one of these surveys for the rest of the industry.

你觉得他会为我们做吗？

Think he'll do that for us?

大概不会。

Probably No.

但没关系。

But that's okay.

他是个很棒的人，但他得专注于自己的专长。

He's he's a great he's a great guy, but he's gotta focus on on his, you know, his wheelhouse.

所以Stonewire做得非常好。

So very good on Stonewire.

我喜欢看到这些事情对所有人都是透明的。

I love to see these kind of things very transparent for everybody.

顺便说一下，科里，这就是所谓的新闻淡周，这很有道理。

This, by the way, Corey, is the definition of a slow news week, which makes a lot of sense.

因为接下来我们将进入新闻淡季，我们会开始看到人们等待Gamma的发布。

Because now we're gonna go to slow season news wise, and we're gonna start to see people waiting on Gamma.

Gamma？

Gamma?

当我们即将发布一些更大的公告时。

When we're going to some bigger announcements.

所以我们先等等看。

So we'll wait on that.

突发新闻。

Breaking news.

我今天的头发特别蓬松。

My hair is particularly fluffy today.

嗯。

Yeah.

这真是重大新闻。

That's so Breaking news.

好了，让我们来

And with that, let's get

谈谈策略和战术。

to strategy and tactics.

策略和战术。

Strategy and tactics.

《桌游内参》回答你在BoardGameGeek.com的桌游内参公会中提出的问题，为你提供行业建议和桌游行业的内部信息。

Board Games Insider answers your posted questions from the Board Games Insider Guild on boardgamegeek.com, giving you industry advice and providing you with insider information into the board game industry.

你总是要把关于你头发的事情放进我们的节目里，这真是太棒了，不过顺便说一句，你该剪头发了。

That's it's so great that you have to put things in to our show about your hair, which you need a haircut by the way.

但不管怎样

But anyway

我一直在想这件事。

I was thinking about it.

它毛茸茸的。

It's it's fluffy.

让我们来聊聊我们的好朋友、节目的铁粉——克里斯汀·麦卡洛。

Let's get to our good friend, very big fan of the show, which is good friend, Kristine McCullough.

天啊，她真是

Gosh, she's

在Woogies。

a At Woogies.

安妮在10月15日提出了这个问题，可见我们正在接近实时提问。

Anne's asking the question on October 15, so you can see we're closing in on real time questions here.

她说，我们来聊聊游戏的豪华版吧。

She goes, let's talk about deluxe copies of games.

什么时候才算太过分了？

When is it too much?

我喜欢玩《勃艮第城堡》。

I love playing Castles of Burgundy.

在豪华版之前，我很容易就能布置好并开始玩。

Before the deluxe version, I could easily set it up and play.

但新的桌游版面设计太复杂了，我完全迷糊了。

But the new board game graphics are overwhelming and I am lost.

在《BGG at sea》之前，我和一位朋友都知道如何玩《阿尔罕布拉》的基础版。

Before BGG at sea, a friend and I knew how to play the base game of Alhambra.

明白吗？

Okay?

她现在用的是另一个版本。

She's going with a different one here.

我超爱这个。

I love it.

我们拿出了豪华版游戏。

We pulled out the deluxe game.

我被那无数的袋子和棋子彻底压垮了。

I was overwhelmed by the endless bags and pieces Totally.

都在盒子里。

In the box.

我完全理解这种感受。

I totally get the sentiment.

那是BGG图书馆的副本，所以那不是她的副本。

It was a BGG library copy, so that's why it wasn't her copy.

是的。

Was Yeah.

BGG图书馆在邮轮上。

The BGG library on on the cruise.

问题。

Questions.

这些豪华版游戏在购买时是否应该配备更好的隔层或更合理的收纳设计，以减轻这种令人不知所措的感觉？

Should these deluxe games have better inserts or better stated, better organization when you purchase them to make them less overwhelming?

一次问一个问题。

Start one question at a time.

她有三个问题。

She has three questions.

所以，嗯。

So Yeah.

那么，是什么促使了这一点呢？有没有什么动力？

So what is it on is is there a is there a impetus?

有没有

Is there a

我完全理解这个问题的核心。

I totally get the gist of this question.

豪华版游戏，我完全支持。

Deluxe games, I'm totally for them.

它们非常精美。

They're gorgeous.

它们很漂亮。

They're beautiful.

我喜欢拥有我非常喜欢的游戏的豪华版。

Love having a blinged out copy of a game that I really like.

我刚收到的那款是《Food Chain Magnate》。

The one that I just received in the mail was Food Chain Magnate.

来自Lucky Duck Games的豪华版，美极了。

The blinged out one from Lucky Duck Games, gorgeous.

背后的问题，我认为这正是克里斯汀想表达的：如果你拥有越来越豪华、越来越复杂的版本，是否必然需要更多的引导，来帮助玩家设置、游玩和收纳游戏？

The question behind it, I think this is what Christine is getting at, is if you have a bigger and bigger and bigger blinged out copy, you by necessity need more and more hand holding to help people set up, play, and put away?

是的，绝对如此。

So yes, absolutely.

配件盒，整理收纳。

Inserts, organization.

出版商们，我们需要一张小纸条，说明如何把游戏收好。

Come on publishers, we need that little sheet of how to put the game away.

太多游戏都有精美的配件盒，却没有任何说明告诉你如何使用以及零件该放在哪里。

Too many games have a beautiful insert and nothing about how to use it and where the pieces go.

完全不知道东西该放哪儿。

No idea where to put things.

但每个东西都有对应的格子，你就是不知道它们该放哪儿。

But but there is a space for everything, you don't even know where they go.

另一种做法是骰子塔在他们的游戏库中采用的方式：他们把所有东西都装进袋子里。

Another way of doing this, the dice tower does this in their game library, is that they bag everything.

他们根本不会用任何附带的配件盒，除非是那种特别好的，我觉得他们直接扔掉。

They don't even they any insert that comes, unless it's like well, any insert that comes, I think they just throw away.

他们把所有东西都装袋，然后在袋子上标明，比如哪个扩展包，是做什么用的。

They bag everything, and then it says on it like, you know, like, expansion so and so, and what it's for.

这样你就可以拿出‘游戏测试问题’了。

So then you can pull out Play testing question.

是这个吗？

Is that?

你会扔掉配件板吗？

Do you throw away inserts?

好的。

Okay.

好吧，我们先说这个，因为我们还需要更多问题。

Well, get to that because we need more questions.

但好吧。

But okay.

所以，总之，克里斯汀，我认为我们同意你的观点，即出版商应该为你提供一种组织大型游戏的方法。

So anyway, so Christine, I think we agree with you that the publisher should be giving you a means of organizing a massive game.

现在，我认为大多数出版商确实提供了不错的解决方案，但科里的说法是——所有东西该放哪儿？

Now, I think most of them give you a decent means, but Corey's statement like, where does everything go?

当然，并不是每个人都这么做。

That's certainly not everybody does that.

有一些，某些

There's some There's certain

那些装饰得极其花哨、超级豪华的版本，却缺乏良好的组织性。

ones that are absolutely blinged out super duper copies that don't have good organization.

我完全同意。

I totally agree.

没错。

Right.

什么时候使用所有扩展包会太多呢？

When is playing with every expansion too much?

总是如此。

Always.

现在，我要说这个。

Now, I'm gonna take this one.

嗯，我要说这个。

Well, I'm gonna take this one.

我的意思是，总的来说，我在游戏方面更偏向纯粹派。

I mean, to I'm more in general, I'm more of a purist when it comes to to games.

我通常更喜欢只玩基础游戏，除非必须使用某个扩展包。

I'd rather just play the base game usually, unless it's a you must play with this expansion.

当然，也有一些游戏是这样的。

And then there are certainly games.

《火星改造》就在我的头旁边，加上序章扩展。

Terraforming Mars right up right here next to my head, with Prelude.

这就像是必须使用序章扩展才能玩。

It's like you must play with Prelude.

没错。

Yeah.

但不要使用所有的扩展包。

But don't play with all the expansions.

除非某人和他们的朋友、同伴说：今天我们要使用所有内容。

Unless one and their friends, associates say, today, we will play with everything.

然后你心里就默认这将是一场六小时的《火星改造》体验，因为他们用了一个大家不熟悉的新地图。

And then you mentally put that into your head that this is gonna be a six hour Terraforming Mars experience because they've got a new map that people aren't as used to.

他们有殖民地。

They've got colonies.

你要去殖民地进行贸易。

You're going out to colonies to do trades.

他们有动荡。

They got turmoil.

游戏中有政治元素。

They got politics in the game.

还有，哦，顺便说一下，在金星上。

And, like oh, and then, by the way, in Venus.

我们也在研究金星。

We're we're working on Venus too.

所以你这里有五个扩展包。

So the you got the the the five expansions there.

这并不是我玩游戏的风格。

I I it's not my style of playing a game.

我更愿意专注于游戏本身并去玩它。

I'd rather focus on the game and play the game.

我同意你的看法，克里斯。

I agree with you, Chris.

我明白克里斯汀的意思。

I see where Christine is going.

问题是，你应该使用所有扩展内容吗？

The question there, should you play with every expansion?

我认为这几乎普遍是否定的。

I think that's almost universally no.

如果你问，你应该使用所有扩展内容吗？

If you say, should you play with every expansion?

我假设不止一个。

I'm assuming there's more than one.

因为如果只有一个，你不会说‘每一个’扩展。

Because you wouldn't say every expansion if there's only one.

是的。

Yeah.

我同意你的观点，我喜欢玩基础版游戏。

And I agree with you that I I like to play base games.

当我熟悉了游戏后，有时我觉得某个扩展确实提升了游戏体验，但并不总是如此。

When I know the game, there's often an expansion that does improve it in my mind, but not always.

并不总是如此。

Not always.

从不，但绝不会。

Not Not But would never

我永远不会带着所有扩展版玩《火星殖民》。

ever play Terraforming Mars with all the expansions.

至于扩展版，我肯定会一直使用。

I and certainly expansions, I would always play with.

是的。

Yeah.

我也不会，但我不会贬低那些这么做的人，因为你确实应该这么做。

I I wouldn't either, but I don't diss people who are gonna do that because they because you should Sure.

当然。

Sure.

当然。

Sure.

提前在人们心中建立这种认知。

Set that up in people's minds beforehand.

它们的存在是为了创造一种对这款宏大游戏的共同体验。

They they're they're there to create a shared experience of this huge game.

没错。

Yep.

我认识一些人，他们会用两套游戏来分别扮演不同区域的火星改造者。

I know people who play with two copies and then they're like terraforming different parts of

节目的朋友马克汉姆就用两套游戏来玩。

Markham friend of the show plays with two copies.

然后你的参数，他们使用的是扩展的全局参数，是的。

That's and and then and then your like your parameters, they they use extended global parameters Yeah.

来做所有这些，天啊。

To do all the Oh my god.

然后整个《卡卡颂》。

And then the whole of, okay Carcassonne.

你会用上所有扩展吗？

Are you gonna play with every expansion?

我觉得不是

Don't think it's

我觉得有些我不太确定。

I think some of them I don't Yeah.

我觉得有些是互相冲突的。

They don't I think some of them just conflict.

我觉得你不可能会用那个来玩

I don't think you would possibly I have play with that

关于扩展包的心态。

mindset around expansions.

有成千上万种，你挑几个，会让游戏更有趣，下次再换不同的。

That there's a jillion, you pick a couple, it makes it interesting, next time you pick something different.

嗯。

Yeah.

我也是这么想的。

That that is mine as well.

你们那儿怎么说的？她有点南方口音。

How would y'all she's a little southern.

你们会怎么解决《勃艮第城堡》和《阿尔罕布拉》豪华版的这个问题呢？

How would y'all fix this issue with deluxe versions of Castles of Burgundy and Alhambra, for example.

我觉得我们已经表达过我们的看法了。

I think we've given our opinion on how we would.

现在盒子内的组织非常棒。

Very good organization in the box now.

BGG 可能没有这个功能。

BGG maybe didn't have that.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我从未见过他们这两个游戏的版本。

I've never seen their versions of these two games.

但是，你知道的，还有另一件事。

But, you know, also, then there's the other thing.

当然，出版商们，请告诉玩家如何收纳这些组件。

Of course, Publishers, please tell people how to put things away.

这样也让游戏更容易取出来。

And then that also makes things easier to bring out.

对吧？

Right?

如果我绝对同意。

If I Absolutely.

我的X扩展包会放进这个或这些插槽里，那样我就知道，好吧，我不想用这个。

My x expansion goes into this slot or these slots, well then I know, okay, I don't wanna play with that.

所以它们就留在收纳盒的这些插槽里。

So they stay in those slots in the organizer.

我觉得这是个大问题。

Think that's a big one.

把扩展包和基础版分开存放，这样打开盒子时能一眼看出，哦，这是加了装饰的基础版游戏。

Keep the expansion separate from the base so that when you open the box, can very easily see, oh, this is the blinged out base game.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们来玩这个吧。

Let's play with that.

对。

Correct.

对。

Correct.

对。

Correct.

对。

Correct.

好吧。

Alright.

蒂亚戈·阿里·德·奥利维拉·布埃诺。

Tiago Ali de Oliveira Bueno.

他说的是蒂亚戈·阿·奥布。

He's at Tiago Ab Aub.

他说，在游戏聚会中，你是如何整理所玩的游戏的？

He says, on a game gathering, how do you organize the games played?

从我家里举办大型聚会开始，我通常会先玩派对游戏、快速游戏，以及适合大量玩家的游戏。

From the time I had big gatherings at home, I usually started with party games, quick games, and a lot of players a lot of player game players type games

是的。

Yeah.

使用玩家账户游戏。

With player account games.

当聚会人数足够时，我会安排一些轻度到中度的游戏，每局四到六人。

Then, when there were sufficient people on the gathering, I would push for some light to medium games with four to six people in each game.

而在深夜，这些聚会通常会持续整整十六个小时，就他而言。

And late in the night, those gatherings usually went for sixteen straight hours, in his case.

幸存者们会围坐在一张或两张桌子旁，玩一款大型游戏。

The survivors would gather around one or maybe two tables to play a really big game.

我认为总体来说这并不坏，

I think in general terms that's not bad,

但我通常会采用不同的顺序。

but I don't kind of go a different order.

我刚结束了一场为期四天的大型聚会，大约有二十到二十五人轮流参与。

So I just finished up a big gathering that was a four day event and we had probably twenty, twenty five people cycling in and out around the event.

我们哇。

We Wow.

当人们刚到达时，通常是两人或三人玩的轻型游戏。

When people first start arriving, it tends to be two player games, three player games, lighter games.

当人们刚到达活动时，大家会聊天、社交、偷偷吃点心，互相问候过得怎么样。

And when people first arrive at an event, there's chitty chat and the socializing and sneaky snacking and how are you doing?

通常是在第二天，我也会考虑在中间和早些时候安排那些耗时很长的大型游戏。

It's usually day two, and I'm also gonna consider that, like, more towards the middle and early that I do the big giant games that take forever.

不过，我们确实有一些疯狂的人。

Although, we do have some crazy people.

巴里和他的朋友们玩起了《Zaya》，这是一款庞大的沙盒太空游戏。

Barry and his friends got into a game of Zaya, which is a massive sandbox space game.

他们从午夜或凌晨一点开始玩，一直玩到天亮。

They started at midnight or one in the morning, and went on through the night.

到了深夜，我通常会安排一些轻松的游戏、派对游戏，因为大家的脑力已经下降了。

And then late at night, I tend to do the light games, party games, when the brain power is going away.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，以前在新泽西的时候，我家有个超大的游戏空间，游戏柜就在那儿，任何人都可以拿一个游戏自己玩，他们自己决定。

I mean, back in the day in New Jersey when I had a huge gaming space in my house, my game closet was there, anybody can take a game and play a game, they decided.

我的游戏日总是从一场大型扑克锦标赛开始，所以总是人山人海，哇哦。

My game day started with a big poker tournament, so there's always a million people Oh the wow.

我们一开始通常有36人，有时候甚至40人。

We would start with a 36, sometimes 40.

我尽量把人数控制在36人以内。

I would try to constrain it to 36 people.

四张大桌子，每张桌子都有人玩扑克锦标赛。

Four four big tables of people playing in a tournament, poker style.

随着玩家们陆续到来，他们就会自发组成小团体。

And and then as the gamers showed up, they would just start breaking into groups.

他们就会自发组成小团体。

They would start breaking into groups.

比如宝拉会负责管理玩家们，而我得管理扑克锦标赛，他负责维持秩序，我则参与其中。

And like Paula would kinda manage the gamers, and while I was having to manage the poker tournaments, he'd keep it running, and I'd play in it.

所以我在那里的经历有点不同。

So it's my my experience there is a little bit different.

但蒂亚戈的想法确实很不错。

But I I I Tiago's ideas are are pretty good.

你开始时轻松一点，结束时也轻松一点，你也这么说过了。

You you kinda start light, you end light, and you said that too.

而在中间阶段，只要人足够多，能组成多个桌，就让大家玩自己想玩的游戏。

And then in the middle, just let people play what they wanna play as as you have enough people to create multiple tables.

玩个大型沉重的游戏？

Play a big heavy thing?

去玩吧。

Go for it.

想继续玩吗？

Wanna play continue The

我唯一想补充的是，问题是：你如何组织这些游戏？

only thing I wanna add to this is the question is how do you organize the games played?

简短回答是：我不做。

And short answer is I don't.

对。

Yeah.

或者所有这些事情。

Or all these things

我说的是，这些事情是自然发生的。

I talk about happen organically.

我同意这一点。

I agree with that.

而且我的意思是，当游戏导师出现时，真是太好了。

And I and I mean, it's great when game teachers show up.

对吧？

Right?

因为他们会说：我要教大家玩这个游戏，任何想玩的人都可以来。

Because they'll say like, I'm gonna teach everybody this, anybody who wants to play this game.

他们会把它放在桌上，登录到最多玩家或他们想要的任何玩家账号，然后开始玩这个游戏。

And they'll put it on a table, they'll get to the max player or whatever player account they want, they'll start playing that game.

这有助于那些不擅长规则的人快速上手他们想玩的游戏，并能和别人一起玩。

That helps people who are not good with rules jump on a game, you know, that they want that they can play with somebody.

所以我同意。

So I agree.

自然而然地进行是最好的方式。

Organically is the best way.

布莱恩·卡罗尔，他的推特是@wrsmadsci。

Brian Carroll, who's @wrsmadsci.

W r s 点 mad sci。

W r s dot mad sci.

mad sci 在哪里？

Where's mad sci?

好的，布莱恩。

Okay, Brian.

是的，布莱恩总是在游戏测试中提供贡献。

Yeah, Brian's always contributing in the in playtesting.

这是我第一次看到他的用户名。

This is a he's I never saw his handle before.

如果这个话题已经被讨论得很多了，我先道歉，但要查找所有相关的信息确实很困难。

I apologize up front if this topic has been beaten to death, but digging through and finding all the info related to it is proving difficult.

假设有人，像他一样，有一个与主题紧密相关的游戏构想，但这完全是一个热情项目。

Let's say someone, like him, has a concept for a game that is very tied to its theme, but it is very much a passion project.

我听说，把一款游戏交给出版商，可能会导致游戏本身的彻底改造，包括主题、机制等等。

I'm told that bringing a game to a publisher can result in a complete overhaul of the game itself, including things such as theme, mechanisms, etcetera.

如果你的目标是保留初始设计背后的主题和氛围，那么向出版商推销这个想法是个好主意吗？

If your intent is preserved preserving the theme and feel behind the initial design, is it a good idea to try pitching it to a publisher?

好的。

Okay.

嗯，是的。

Well, Yes.

首先，你请说。

First of all Go ahead.

我的意思是，如果你想成为自己的出版商，那当然可以。

I mean, if you wanna become a your own publisher, then you can.

这就是为什么我们现在有了众筹。

That's why we have crowdfunding now.

你可以直接拿去，自己完成所有工作，用你的主题、机制等进行众筹。

You can just take it, do all the work, get it on crowdfunding with your theme, your mechanics, and everything.

但大多数情况下，经过出版商进一步开发的游戏，无论是否众筹，最终都会变得更好。

But for the most part, games that go through a publisher, which get extra development, end up to be better games, whether they get crowdfunded or not.

它们之所以变得更好，是因为有更多人、更多想法在帮助你。

They just end up to be better better games because there's more people, more minds helping you.

理论上，你可以签订一份合同，让出版商承诺：你必须保留这个主题。

And you could, theoretically, sign a contract where the publisher says, You must keep this theme.

你可以这么做。

You could.

这通常不是与设计师签订合同时的做法，但你可以这么做。

It's not normally what is done in contracts with designers, but you could.

一切都可协商。

It's all negotiated.

现在，我会在其中写明这是一个热情项目，这暗示了创意控制权。

Now, what I would put in there it's a passion project, that's implying creative control.

所以你得小心。

So you gotta be careful.

如果你有一个游戏，而且它是你的热情项目，你希望它完全按你的想法来，那么也许你该自己发行。

If you have a game and it's a passion project and you want it this way period, then, maybe you want to self publish.

这是一款与主题紧密相关的游戏，你要相信发行商也能看到这一点。

It's a game that's very, very tied to the theme, you know, have faith that the publisher may see this as well.

如果你以某种主题来展示它，也许他们会希望保留这个主题。

If you present it with a certain theme, maybe they're going want to keep that theme.

对。

Right.

然后，还有另一回事。

And then, there's that whole other thing.

如果你有一个与《星球大战》主题紧密相关的创意项目，祝你好运。

If you have a passion project that is tied to the theme of, say, Star Wars, good luck.

你不可能得到它。

You're not gonna get it.

在这种情况下，答案是你必须真的要

Well, the the answer in that case, you've gotta really It's go

太花哨了

to too fancy

标志小一点

flag small

《星球大战》。

Star Wars.

你得去找一家Asmodee公司。

You gotta well, you gotta go to an Asmode company.

可能是《办公室狗狗》，也可能是《幻想谷》。

Could be Office Dog, could be Fantasy Valley.

你得去他们的一家工作室，或者找有权限使用大型IP的人。

You gotta go to to one of their studios or someone who has access to the big boy IPs.

我会说威兹凯克斯。

I I would say WizKids.

威兹凯克斯有《龙与地下城》的授权。

WizKids has access to D and D.

他们很容易就能获得《星际迷航》的授权。

They have access to Star Trek easily.

但在迪士尼的项目上就比较少。

Less so in the Disney stuff.

但他们确实有漫威的授权。

But they do but they do have the Marvel stuff.

所以他们拥有所有这些资源的授权。

So they have access to all of the stuff.

我最近带了一个人去WizKids，因为我说，好吧。

I I recently brought somebody to WizKids because I said, okay.

我觉得他们可以为你搞定这个，因为这属于那种情况。

I think they could get this for you because it was one of those.

这个人真的很想把这个IP用到他们的游戏中。

He this person really wanted to get this IP on their game.

所以我提了这件事。

So I brought so I brought it up.

你看，就是这样。

There you go.

第二，如果你向出版商提案，是否常见或有可能在主题和美术设计上保留一定程度的创意控制权，以确保游戏符合原始构想？

Number two, if you do pitch to a publisher, is it common or even possible to include some level of creative control over the theme and art to ensure the game fits the original concept?

首先，当然可以。

Well, first of Absolutely.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

而且出版商希望让你这位设计师感到满意。

And the publisher wants to keep you, the designer, happy.

但别在这方面太过分，这可能是最好的说法。

But don't be a jerk about it, I guess is a good way.

如果他们已经完成了美术设计，而且效果很好，就别试图说：‘这把剑需要再倾斜三度，否则不符合我的角色设定。’

If they've done art and the art is really good, don't try to say, well, that sword needs tilt by another three degrees, or else it doesn't make sense for my character.

只要合理就行。

Just reasonable.

在所有这些事情上都要保持理性。

Be reasonable in all of this.

而且最终，如果你执意要这样，他们几乎肯定会赢得合同纠纷。

And and they in the end, they will win a contract dispute, almost definitely, if you are going down that

去pitch时就说：‘我要求必须保留这个主题’，那么请记住，你是在提出一系列条件：你的游戏、游戏的质量、你想要的创意控制权，而他们则会回以他们想要的东西。

go into the pitch saying, I demand it stays with this theme, then remember, you're you're presenting a certain set of criteria, your game, the quality of your game, how much creative control you want, and they're coming back with what they want out of it.

如果你一上来就强硬要求完全的创作控制权，很可能无法成功说服对方。

If you come in just guns blazing that you need complete and utter creative control, you're probably not gonna land the pitch.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

非常非常非常重要，尤其是在这种提案中。

Very, very, very much, especially with that pitch.

如果你在提案中表现得太过傲慢，不管你是谁，你的游戏都很难被采纳。

If you get too arrogant in a pitch, doesn't matter who you are, you're probably not getting your game in.

你可能是维诺基尼扎，不过他通常不会亲自做提案，他有专人负责。

You could be Vinokinizia and you've well, he doesn't usually do his own pitches probably, but he has people to pitch.

但任何人进来都说‘我必须要有这个’。

But it but anybody coming in and saying, I have to have this.

我有这个。

I have that.

你很可能不会签下这个游戏。

You're probably not gonna sign that game.

第三点，或者说，一旦游戏进入发行商流程，原始设计师的唯一真正作用就是让他们的名字出现在游戏上，即使最终结果与原始创意意图大相径庭。

Number three, or is the only real role of the original designer once it gets into the processes at the publisher to have their name slapped on it, even if the end result ends up quite different from the original concept in Intent.

这变化极大。

This is incredibly variable.

合同千差万别。

The contracts are all over the place.

对。

Right.

我举的例子是老派的克里斯蒂安·彼得森和幻影飞行游戏。

The examples I'll put out there is the old school Christian Peterson Fantasy Flight games.

那些游戏里，你得放弃所有创意控制权。

Those had a you gave up all creative control.

你把游戏卖给了出版商。

You sold the game to the publisher.

他们想怎么改就怎么改。

They did whatever they wanted with it.

你没有任何发言权。

You had no say.

现在这种情况非常罕见了。

Nowadays, that's really rare.

总是会有一些妥协。

It's always a bit of a compromise going on.

妥协的程度因合同而异。

How much it is is contract to contract.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

发行商希望你参与进来。

That publishers want you involved.

你只是另一个参与者。

You're another body.

你只是另一个头脑。

You're another mind.

你只是另一个你将会

You're another You'll

做一部分工作。

do some of the work.

没错。

Exactly.

我和杰夫觉得，每款游戏都会是同样的情况。

I Jeff and I I mean, every game is gonna be the same thing.

如果你想参与，你就参与了。

If you wanna be involved, you're involved.

对于我们的游戏，杰夫和我审查了所有文件，审查了他们想要的任何机制改动，全部都看了。

And Jeff and I, for our game, we reviewed the files, reviewed any mechanic changes that they wanted, everything.

有些设计师只想把游戏卖出去就完事了。

And some designers don't Some wanna be designers wanna just sell it and forget it.

没错。

So right.

当然。

Absolutely.

这也是一种可能性。

That is a possibility too.

好的。

Alright.

他一直在继续。

Got he keeps going.

如果不通过出版商，最好的方式是什么来让其他人加入？

If not going through a publisher, what's the best way of getting others on board?

比如找开发者来完善机制和平衡性。

Like developers to refine mechanism and balance.

你得走出去，去BGG，那里有很多论坛，有人会为你提供开发服务。

That you gotta go out, go out to BGG, there are forums out there of people who will sell services to you for development.

他们会他们会

They'll they'll

测试和开发是不同的。

playtesting is different than development.

当然。

Absolutely.

有一些测试小组通常会免费做这件事。

There are playtesting groups that will usually just do it for free.

也许最后，他们会得到一份游戏副本之类的。

Maybe in the end, they get a copy of the game kind of thing.

开发者会更深入地参与。

Developers go deeper into it.

这些人中有些有地位，所以他们会真正深入地工作，并保证会玩够指定的次数。

They've they've they've got status, some of these people, so that they will really work deeply, and they'll guarantee they're gonna play it x number of times.

游戏可能需要玩两个小时，但他们保证会玩八次。

And the game could take two hours to play and they're going guarantee they're going play it eight times.

大

Big

工作。

job.

时间投入。

Time commitment.

在桌游中，开发是一项非常困难却默默无闻的工作。

Developing is a very difficult unsung job in board games.

没错。

Yep.

所以，为优质的开发支付费用是理所当然的。

So expect to pay for good development.

当然要付钱。

Pay Absolutely.

你知道的，而且要付不少。

You know, and significantly.

你应该付。

You should.

你应该付。

You should.

最后，第五点。

Lastly, number five.

如果不通过出版社，自己把游戏做出来会有多大的风险和难度？

If not going through a publisher, how much of a risk and a lift would it be to actually get the game made?

如果你懂得其中的所有细节，就可以做到，因为你可以通过众筹使用他人的资金。

Well, if you know how to do it, all of the nuances, you can do it, because you have OPM, other people's money, on crowdfunding.

如果你不知道怎么做，有很多资源可以帮你了解，比如

If you don't know how to do it, there are resources to go out to say, okay,

嗯，没错。

well Yeah.

我该怎么在中国印制游戏？

How do I get a game printed in China?

你得自己去寻找这些资源。

You'd have to go find those.

我们总是提到那里的熊猫制造。

We always talk about panda manufacturing out there.

它们是最大的服务公司。

They're the biggest service agencies.

好消息是

Good news

我们有一个非常开放的行业。

is we have a very open industry.

所以，如果你提出问题，必然会找到能给你良好建议的人。

So if you ask questions, you will inevitably find people who can give you good advice.

这个行业里很少有人会说：我不告诉你，这是秘密。

There's very few people in this industry who are going to say, I'm not going tell you, it's a secret.

对。

Right.

冒着被取消资格的风险，AI在处理这类事情上会非常擅长，比如。

At the risk of getting cancelled myself, AIs are going to be really good at doing things like Oh.

非常擅长处理这样的问题：比如，有没有一份关于中国或全球同性恋制造商的列表？

Really good at things like, well, know, is there like a list of of of gay gay manufacturers in China or across the world?

它们会生成一份非常详尽的列表，然后你可以进行筛选和个性化处理。

And they will come up with quite an extensive list that you can then But it's harvest and personal

在这个行业里，你真的需要认识某位在制造商工作的人，并与他们交谈。

industry, you really want to know someone who works for one of the manufacturers, and you want to talk to them.

他们希望得到你的业务。

And they want your business.

他们愿意帮助你。

They want to help you.

另一个非常好的方式是，如果你参加展会，与出版商交流，他们会给你提供联系方式。

And a really good way of putting this also for people is that if you get yourself out to conventions, talk to publishers, they will give you contacts.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你不认识任何出版商，我的意思是，如果你不认识任何人，你就无法获得与开发者或分销商的深入引荐。

If you don't if you don't know any publishers I mean, if you don't know people, they're not gonna you're not gonna have that really close introduction to a developer, or to a distributor later on.

对吧？

Right?

或者与PSI这样的整合商，或者中国最主流的制造商建立联系。

Or to like PSI, the consolidator level, or to of course the manufacturers out in China most

所有这些问题的最大危险在于，如果你有一个热情项目，有一个游戏设计，并决定自己开发、自主发行或众筹，记住，你热爱的东西可能并不是别人也热爱的。

The big danger, the big pitfall of all of these questions is if you have a passion project, if you have a game design, and you decide to do it yourself, self publish or crowdfund, remember, what you love might not be what anybody else loves.

最好把它展示给更多人看。

It's always better to put it in front of more people.

多听取一些意见总是更好的。

It's always better to get more opinions.

要非常警惕达克效应，别觉得自己在设计游戏方面是最棒的。

Be very be very leery of the Dunning Kruger effect that you feel you're the very best at designing your game.

没错。

Absolutely.

没错。

Absolutely.

他这里还有一个附加问题，具体是关于机制和主题的，比如哪个应该先来。

He does have a bonus question here and it's specifically like the the mechanisms and theme, like what comes first.

在选择机制时，有没有一些指导原则或标准规则可以遵循？

There a guideline or a set of standards and rules that folks follow when choosing mechanisms?

没有。

No.

他们通常会先从机制和玩法入手，再从那里添加主题吗？

Will they typically start with the mechanisms and gameplay and add theme from there?

答案是否定的。

And the answer is No.

每个人都不一样。

Everybody is different.

每个人都不一样。

Everybody is different.

只要对你有效，任何方法都行。

And every method works if it works for you.

完美的回答。

Perfect answer.

就是这样。

There you go.

祝你好运，布莱恩。

Good luck, Brian, with this.

这确实很艰难，我们知道，但祝你顺利。

It's a it's a struggle, we know, but good luck with it.

这很令人兴奋。

It's exciting.

而现在，是的。

And now yeah.

当你获得一个新概念和新游戏时，总是令人兴奋的。

It's always exciting when you get a new concept and new game.

希望它能为你顺利成功。

Hopefully, it's gonna work out for you.

现在我们得去进行游戏测试了。

And now we gotta go over to playtesting.

游戏测试。

Playtesting.

《WordGames Insider》会向你提问，了解你对各种桌游主题的感受和看法。

WordGames Insider asks you questions to get your feelings and opinions on various board game topics.

科里，你又提出了一个很棒的问题。

Corey, another great question by you.

我不愿这么说，但我还是要告诉你，这是另一个很棒的问题。

I hate to say this, but I'm gonna this to you, but another great question.

我们当然有很多。

We had a lot of Of course.

你这里有相关数据。

And you have stats on this.

首先，给我们读一下这个问题。

So first of all, read the question to us.

好的。

Alright.

然后给我们提供这些数据。

And then provide us with the stats.

我提了一个快速问答问题。

I did a lightning round question.

我想就一些我一直好奇的事情，得到是或否的回答。

I wanted yes no answers on things that I always wonder about.

所以我们有四个、五个是/否问题。

So we've got four, five questions for yes, no.

我们有卡牌游戏、桌游，有卡牌弃牌游戏、吃墩游戏，有迷你游戏桌游，有角色扮演游戏桌游，还有集换式卡牌游戏和轻量集换式卡牌游戏桌游。

We had our card games board games, our card shedding games trick takers, our miniature games board games, our RPGs board games, and our CCG LCGs board games.

现在，我想在这里稍微道个歉。

Now, I do wanna put out a little bit of an apology here.

再次说明，我作为一个美式英语使用者，观点非常有偏见。

Once again, I am incredibly biased by being an American English speaker.

所以这一切都是基于‘桌游’这个美式英语术语。

So this is all based on the term board game, which is an American English term.

当然，对于英语不是母语的人，或者即使你的英语不是以美式英语为主的人，可能对桌游有别的叫法，这就会改变整个问题。

So of course, people where English is not their primary language, or even if American English is not your primary form of English, there might be a different term for board games which then changes the whole question.

改变一切

Changes all

我们为我是这种人而道歉。

We the apologize for being I am what I basically.

我确实很惭愧，是个只会一种语言的人。

I I am very guilty of being a single language speaker.

虽然我大约有80%的几率在

Although I'm about 80 Yeah, percent in

你的德语很不错。

you're pretty good German.

好的。

Okay.

那么，你想先谈谈我们提供的数据，然后再讨论具体的回答，对吧？

So you want to talk about the stats you gave us and then we'll talk about specific answers.

关于数据，不如你先谈谈一些回答吧，因为我得找找看，好吧，

So, for the stats, why don't you start talking about some answers, because I have to find some Okay,

这完全没问题。

that's not a problem at all.

所以，有个有趣的事情，你刚刚提到了语言上的差异。

So here's a funny thing, that you just mentioned the difference in the language.

所以我们有马可·杜布拉尼克，他总是回答问题。

So we have Marco Dubranik, who he's always answering questions.

这正是我想到的答案，而且

That's the answer I was thinking And

他说，对于街机游戏和桌游，在英语里，没有。

he's he says, you know, for the Arcade games board games, in English, no.

在克罗地亚语里，有。

In Croatian, yes.

因为在这里我们说，但我根本说不出口，我都不敢尝试。

Because here we say, and I can't say it, I wouldn't even try.

他说有一个词，或者说是‘社交游戏’这个翻译。

He says there's a there's a word, or sociable games is the translation.

当我们组织桌游之夜或桌游大会时，在克罗地亚，我们默认包含卡牌游戏。

When we organize board game night or board game con, BG night or BG con in Croatia, we imply card games by default.

卡牌游戏是指弃牌类游戏还是取牌类游戏？

Are card games are are card shedding games trick taking games?

我不知道什么是弃牌类卡牌游戏。

I don't know what card shedding games are.

所以他只是觉得还可以。

So he's he's just okay.

他不太明白这一点。

He doesn't quite get that.

迷你游戏是桌游吗？

Are miniature games board games?

不是。

No.

我们前几天达成共识时同意这个答案。

Agreed with that answer when we took it the other day.

角色扮演游戏是桌游吗？

Are RPGs board games?

不是。

No.

这太宽泛了。

That's too open.

桌游有严格的规则和界限。

Board games have strict rules and boundaries.

这是一种非常好的思考方式。

It's a very good way of thinking about it.

集换式卡牌游戏或限量版卡牌游戏是桌游吗？

Are CCGs or LCGs board games?

他对这个问题回答了‘是’，我对此有点不同意，但我喜欢每个人的解读。

And he said yes to that one, which I disagree a little bit, but I love everyone's interpretation

从统计数据来看，最大的答案是每个人都不一样。

That was the biggest answer from the stats is that everybody was different.

是的。

Yeah.

我原本以为当我写下这些问题时，其中一些会是绝对的、不言而喻的。

And things I assumed I I thought when I wrote these questions that some of them would be absolute, a 100% no brainers.

它们并不是。

And they weren't.

它们并不是。

And they weren't.

它们没有任何规则。

They have none.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Yep.

NW给出了一个很好的回答。

NW gave a great answer.

只有卡片的游戏就是卡牌游戏。

A game with nothing but cards is a card game.

如果一个游戏虽然主要使用卡片，但如果没有棋盘就无法合理进行，那它仍然是桌游。

A game that has a board but is mostly cards is still a board game if the game could not be reasonably played without the board.