绝命毒师内幕 308

中间

middle of

赛季，还是两年前？

season or did it happen two years ago?

那是什么时候发生的？

When did it happen?

嗯，在第二季我作为编剧助理回来的时候，我就决定我的目标是拿到一个自由撰稿的机会。

Well, in season two when I came back as the writer's assistant, I had decided that my goal was to get a freelance.

所以那一年我特别努力地工作，想证明我能写，尽量多参与讨论，还做了网络剧集，把我的其他作品样本也给了你。

And so I spent that year working really hard to show that I could write and trying to participate more in the room and doing the webisodes and giving you my other samples.

对。

Yeah.

关于网络剧集的事。

Me about the webisode.

那是你第一次正式的写作工作。

That was your first official writing gig.

第一次拿钱写东西其实不是这一集。

First pay writing for pay gig was actually not this episode.

是其中一集网络短剧。

Was one of the webisodes.

网络短剧，对。

Webisodes, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我们当时有这些网络短剧，而且我在第二季的时候跟Vince聊过，就是想让你知道我想当编剧。

We had these webisodes and I had had a conversation with Vince in the second season just letting you know I wanted to be a writer.

有没有什么我能做的，好让你看看我能行？

Was there anything I could do to help show you I could do it?

然后你说，嘿，我们有网络短剧。

And you said, hey, we have webisodes.

你何不试试写几集呢？

Why don't you try your hand at writing a couple of those?

所以我就写了。你写了那个《音乐背后》？

And so I did And You did the behind the music?

但我写的是《Twad hammer》的《音乐背后》。

But I did the Twad hammer behind the music.

然后我还写了沃尔特和巴杰闯入的那一集。

And then I did the break in with Walt and Badger.

希望很多人看过这些。

Who a lot of a lot of these folks have hopefully seen.

我想现在AMC网站上应该还能看到。

It's I guess available still on the AMC website.

还有DVD上也有。

And on the DVD.

对，DVD上也有。

And on the DVD.

是的。

Yeah.

那是一次非常有趣的写作实验，因为那天，你知道，我们把他们全都聚在一起，一天之内就拍完了。

And that was a very interesting writing experiment because that day, you know, we we kind of threw them all together and shot them all in one day.

我们到了那里，那场戏还没定下来。

And we got there and that one just wasn't nailed down.

我们知道不是那个锤子，而是因为亚伦·保罗生病了。

We knew the not the twat hammer, but because Aaron Paul was sick.

所以，一切都有点悬而未决。

So, like, everything kind of was up in the air.

然后珍妮和文斯，你们俩就在当天现写。对。

And Jenny and Vince were kind of you were writing this on the day Yeah.

就在我们开拍前几个小时。

Like hours before we

拍的时候。

shot it.

我记得我过去那边，因为我把打印机借给你们用，而且我住得也不远。

Remember going by there because I was lending you guys my printer, and I don't live too far.

所以那天晚上我过去了，我记得看到你们挤在沙发上。

So I showed up that night, and I remember seeing you guys, like, huddled on the couch.

就是，当时很暗。

Like, and it was dark.

然后，你知道，我记得看到你们挤在沙发上，写得特别快，想赶紧把那些内容写下来。

And, you know, I remember seeing you guys huddled on the couch, like, you know, writing very, very fast trying to trying to get that down.

我觉得你把稿子交给马特和布莱恩的时候，大概就剩十五分钟了。

I think you handed off pages to Matt and Brian like fifteen minutes.

差不多在开拍前十五分钟。

About fifteen minutes before we shot.

对。

Yeah.

那真是不可思议。

It was incredible.

而且它

And it

而且那是最搞笑的之一，我的意思是，那真是一个很棒的网剧。

and it was one of the funniest of I mean, was just a great a great webisode.

里面有很多喜剧元素，Brian和Matt之间的节奏感特别好。

Like, it it was this a lot of comedy that was just like, the rhythm between Brian and Matt was great.

而且，我觉得你的创意非常自然，效果特别好。但看到你在那么大的压力下还能那么专注，演员们都在旁边等着，不知道接下来要做什么，那真是让人惊叹。

And this, you know, this this I think, you know, your idea for it just was very organic and, like and it worked so well, but it was amazing to see you that focused under so much pressure with actors standing around waiting wondering, you know, what they're gonna do next.

你在那种高压环境下做得非常好。

You did a great job under fire there.

Melissa，你制作了所有这些网剧。

Melissa, you you produced all those webisodes.

你做得非常好。

You did a great job.

而且

And

John Chime已经准备好了。

And John Chime is ready.

帮了大忙了。

A lot of help.

是的。

Yes.

哇。

Wow.

真的做得很好。

It was really well done.

凯特·鲍尔斯也做了一个。

And Kate Powers did one.

那是

That's

苏珊，对吧。

Suzanne right.

波茨也做了一个。

Potts did one.

没错。

That's right.

文斯也做了一个。

And Vince did one.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

挺有意思的。

It was it was fun.

感觉就像回到了电影学院。

It was it was like going back to film school.

就像电影学院一样，因为那些片子几乎没花什么钱拍的。

It was like film school because they were made for, I wouldn't say zero money.

整个片子大概就花了800美元，你懂的，全部加起来。

They were made for, like, $800 for the whole, you know, whole thing.

确实，感觉就像

Mean, it definitely felt like

是一部学生电影。

it was a student film.

对。

Yeah.

作为助理剪辑师，我有很多朋友也是助理剪辑师，我自己也做过助理。

As an assistant editor, I have a lot of friends who are assistant editors, like, I was assistant.

而且我相信，作为编剧助理，你也认识很多编剧助理。

And I'm sure as a writer's assistant, you know a lot of people who are writer's assistants.

我想应该是的。

I would think.

或者你认识一个编剧助理的圈子。

Or you know a network of writer's assistants.

他们之间不互相来往。

They don't associate.

对。

Yeah.

而且作为制片助理，你知道的，但我只是好奇，你是在什么节点会说出‘听着，我得拿到这个，不然我就走了’这种话呢？

And as as a producer's assistant, know, but I'm just curious at what point do you kind of say, look, I need to get this or I'm gone, you know.

我是说，我以前跟其他剪辑师合作时也遇到过这种情况，就在我们当时合作的Lynn Willingham来拍《绝命毒师》之前。

I mean, I've been in that position with other with editors I've worked for, right before we, Lynn Willingham, who I was working with at the time came to do Breaking Bad.

我当时跟她一起做《失踪现场》，我们正在做第二季。

I was working with her on Without a Trace, and we were doing the second season.

那时候我就想，好吧。

And it was like at that point, was like, okay.

如果Lynn不走去做试播集，我就得离开去做别的事情，因为我需要得到机会。

If Lynn doesn't leave to go do a pilot, I'm gonna have to leave to go do something else because I need to get I need to get a shot.

所以当Vince在说，你们在聊那个的时候，你有没有作为编剧助理为了往上走而离开过别人？

So when Vince was talking about, you know, you guys talking about that, have you had to do that before as a writer's assistant left somebody else just to move ahead?

我目前还真没遇到过这种情况。

I haven't actually had to at this point.

我的意思是，就这件事来说，我下定决心要尽我所能做到最好，来证明我已经准备好写这个剧本了。

I mean, I've I mean, with this, I I made it point was I was gonna do the best job I could to show that I was ready for this script.

在我做到那一点之前，我绝不会说，我需要这个或者怎样，因为我必须相信自己已经尽了全力。

And until I had done that, there was no way I was ever going to say, well, I need this or else because I have to believe I've done the best I can.

对。

Right.

你明白吗？

You know?

所以我就那么做了。

And so that's what I did.

我跟Vince谈了，他说可以。

And I talked to Vince and he said, yes.

所以那时候，这根本不在考虑范围内。

So at that point, it never entered into it.

如果他当时说不，那我可能就会问，那我还需要做什么才能让你相信我能做到呢？

And if he had said no, then it probably would have been a, okay, well what more do I need to do to show you that I can do this?

这是不是你认识的很多人都会遇到的情况？

Is that something that comes up with a lot of people that you know though?

我知道编辑助理经常遇到这种情况。

I mean I know it comes up with editor's assistants all the time.

制片助理是不是也会这样，即使你本来有很好的方向，也不得不偏离原来的路线？

Does it come up with producer's assistants where you just kinda have to kind of deviate from your path even though you've got a really good path?

当然会。

Absolutely.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且你不得不这样做，这很难，因为你基本上是在重新开始。

And you have to and it's hard because you're you're starting over, basically.

对。

Yeah.

而且还要赌一把，是的。

And and rolling the dice and yeah.

不是。

No.

这确实是职业生涯中一个让人害怕的时刻。

It's and it it that's a scary point in one's career.

但我觉得大多数人都会到达那个点，准备好，你知道，他们

But I think most people get to that point where they're ready to, you know, they

我一直跟着你，因为我第一次见你的时候，你是马克·约翰逊的助理。

I've been with you because when I've met you, you were Mark Johnson's assistant.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

这确实很吓人，因为到了某个时刻，你知道自己想要什么，而且你得觉得自己已经准备好在这个层面上做出贡献了。

It's and it is scary because there's a point in time where you know what you want and and you gotta feel like you're ready to contribute on that level.

我觉得《绝命毒师》其实是我实现这个目标的机会，因为马克说到做到，在我为他工作两年后，他让我尝试做执行制片人。

And I think Breaking Bad was my opportunity to do that actually because, you know, mean, Mark was true to his word and, you know, let me after working for him for two years, let me, you know, try my hand as an executive.

但正是《绝命毒师》让我真正为Gran Via做出了有意义的贡献，因为文斯给了我机会。

But it was Breaking Bad that allowed me to really, you know, contribute in a meaningful way for Gran Via because, you know, because Vince let me.

我参与了所有的选角工作，比如我们招聘其他制片人、制片主任，还有选角会议和选角导演的招聘。

I mean, you know, where I got to participate in, you know, in all of the staffing, you know, when we hiring the rest of our producers and our UPM and the casting meetings and hiring our casting directors.

所有这些都是我以前从未做过的。

And all of that was something I'd never done before.

而且，你知道，是的。

And, you know, and Yeah.

你知道，那是一个既让人兴奋又让人害怕的时刻。

You know, it's that's an exciting time and a scary time.

这真的很棒，因为文斯，你真的非常愿意给新人机会。

It's really great because, Vince, you've, like, really been so great in taking chance on rookies.

而且，你知道，我觉得我们都为你打出了一些全垒打。

And, you know, I think we've all, like, we've we've all hit some out of the park for you, I think.

当然。

Absolutely.

不过我不太爱冒险。

I don't take a lot of chances, though.

我是说，我……不。

I mean, I I I no.

我是说，不是。

I mean no.

我是说，我会换个说法。

I mean, I I mean, I would I would put it that I would word it a little differently.

我会说，我一眼就能认出人才。

I I would say that I recognize talent when I see it.

你这么说真好。

That's so sweet of you.

不是。

No.

但我的意思是，也不完全是那样。

But I mean, it's not it's not yeah.

而且我很幸运。

And I'm I'm fortunate.

我合作的很多人都非常棒，他们充满热情，精力充沛。

I've I'm working with a lot of really wonderful, people who are enthusiastic and have a lot of energy.

我是认真的。

And I I mean it.

我不是在说好话。

I I I'm not being nice.

这不是冒险的问题，因为你知道，你会尽量把风险降到最低，尤其是在这个行业，任何行业，当涉及数百万美元的时候，你懂的。

It's not about taking chances because they, you know, you try to reduce reduce risk as much as possible, you know, and certainly in this business and in any business when there's millions and millions of dollars on the line, you know.

但我觉得，比如你，凯莉，我认识你的时候，你还在做琳恩的助理，当时我们在拍试播集，但你很快就展现出了你有多擅长剪辑。

But I think like with with you, Kelly, I you know, you were Lynn's assistant when I met you on the pilot, but you showed very quickly how good an editor you were.

所以第一季请你来做我们的第三位剪辑师，其实风险并不大。

So it wasn't that big a risk to hire you as our third editor in season One.

对。

One.

梅丽莎和珍妮也是一样的情况。

And same with Melissa, same with Jenny.

所以这不算是在冒险。

So it's not it's not taking risks.

这只是在发现对我们节目很重要的人才，不管他们什么时候出现。

It's just recognizing important potential assets to our show, you know, whenever they present themselves.

我觉得这很棒。

I think it's great.

我很感激，但我也觉得这挺难得的。

I mean, I appreciate it, but I also think it's kinda rare.

而且我觉得，你做到了，真的谢谢你。

And I think it's you know, you've done it, and I think it's thank you.

听到你这么说真好。

Well, it's good to hear.

不客气。

You're very welcome.

谢谢你的夸奖。

I I appreciate the flattery.

其实吧，你知道，这也有很大的好处，就是——也没什么好隐瞒的。

I I just, you know, it it there is a there's a big upside to it, which is it well, just no point in lying about it.

刚开始做的人确实便宜一些。

Folks starting off are cheaper.

对。

Yeah.

我们都是廉价劳动力。

We're all cheap labor.

是的。

Yes.

但那样说就不诚实了。

But it'd be disingenuous.

但我们没有

But we weren't

便宜太久。

cheap for long.

对，确实是这样。

No, that's true.

确实。

That's true.

而且你们也不会便宜太久。

And none of you will be cheap for long.

你们现在已经不便宜了，真是的。

You're already not, damn it.

但如果不提这一点，就显得不诚实了。

But it'd be disingenuous not to mention that.

但那些做了很久的人也有自己的做法。

But also folks who've been doing it for a long time do it their way.

不是说你们没有自己的做法，但我的意思是，我们在这里都挺接受这里的做事方式的。

And and not to say you folks don't do it your way, but I mean, we're all kinda you kinda embrace the way we do it here.

好，那行。

So Okay.

保持这样，总是有帮助的。

Keep it it's always helpful.

尽量保持新鲜感。

Try and keep it fresh.

对。

Yeah.

现在我们来聊聊这一集吧。

Now let's get into talking about the episode.

珍妮，你来说说作为编剧在编剧室的第一天感觉怎么样？

Jenny, why don't you talk about how it was on your first day as a writer in the writer's room.

现在你不再做笔记了。

Now you're not taking notes anymore.

现在你实际上要负责具体的工作了。

Now you're actually having to do the deal.

那感觉怎么样？

And and how was that?

你紧张吗？

What was were you nervous?

我确实紧张。

I was nervous.

但我也特别兴奋，因为终于可以戴手表了，不用整天打字。

I was also really excited that I could wear my watch because I wasn't typing all day.

所以，不紧张。

So no.

其实还是有点让人紧张的。

It was it was it was a little nerve wracking.

我带了笔记本。

I had my notebook.

我有了自己的想法。

I had my ideas.

我满怀热情地去了那里，你知道，感觉非常好。

I was in there enthusiastic and, you know, was great.

我的意思是，我们每一集都是一起讨论出来的。

I mean, we break every episode together.

编剧们一起。

The writers do.

所以你在那个房间里从来不会孤单。

And so you're never you're never alone in that room.

你总是有这样一个团队，我知道这减轻了我不少压力，因为我知道有这样一个优秀的团队在帮我，你知道，一起构思出我们能做的最好的那一集。

You're, you know, you always have this group and I knew that that took that took a certain amount of pressure off of me because I knew I had this great team who was there to help me, you know, outline the best episode that we could.

所以我觉得对我来说最大的帮助就是知道自己不是一个人。

And so that I think was really, really the biggest help for me is knowing I wasn't by myself.

你们把故事大纲定下来之后，写剧本花了多长时间？

And how long once you guys finished breaking it, how long did it take you to write it?

我记得大概用了两周到两周半吧。

I think I had two or two and a half weeks.

两周写完？

Two weeks to write it?

你记性比我好。

You have a better memory for it than I do.

整个季末都糊成一团了。

Whole the whole end of the season's to blur.

确实是一团模糊。

It's a blur.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得差不多吧。

I guess that sounds right.

对。

Yeah.

我大概有一周时间写大纲。

I got about a week to do the outline, I think.

然后我有大约两周时间写稿，之后就得把草稿交给文斯。

And then I had about two weeks to write it before I had to turn in my draft to Vince.

那那次会议有多难熬？

And then how brutal was that meeting?

其实没那么糟。

It was not that bad.

真的一点都不糟。

It was not that bad at all.

你紧张吗？

Were you nervous?

我紧张得要命。

I was so nervous.

我是说，你知道，文斯是我合作过的最有才华的作家之一，我当然希望，你懂的，你希望他们走进来就说，这太完美了。

I mean, you know, Vince is one of the most talented writers I've I've ever worked with and I obviously wanted, you know, you want them to walk in and be like, it's perfect.

一个字都不用改，但这永远不可能发生，永远永远永远。

Don't change a thing and that's never gonna happen ever ever ever.

但你只是想要那样，因为你想给他们留下好印象。

But you just want that because you wanna impress them.

而且顺便说一句，这种感觉永远不会变。

And But by the way, that never changes.

对，不会变。

No, it doesn't.

永远不会

It never

变，如果你是，如果你是，我不知道是谁。

changes if you're if you're I don't know who.

不管你是世界上最大的作家，还是故事里的谁，你把剧本交给谁，你都会想要那种反应。

If you're the world's biggest writer period in the story, whoever you give your script to, you're gonna want that reaction.

这种感觉永远不会消失。

That never goes away.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不过，说真的，那感觉很好。

So But no, it was great.

我的意思是，他当然有意见，但他非常赞赏和支持。

I mean, obviously, he had notes, but he was very complimentary and supportive.

我们过了一遍剧本，他给了意见，我做了修改，这很好。

We went through the script, and he gave me notes, and I did my revisions, which was great.

他让我改了一些地方，其实没那么痛苦，第二幕是最难改的，其他部分我觉得都还好。

He had me revise things, and it was not as pain Act two was the most painful act and other than that I think it was fine.

你觉得为什么？

Why is that you think?

我觉得是因为我们每天都有做。

I think I was just because we had done We did them each day.

我们每天处理一幕，带着笔记。

We did an act a day with notes.

第一天我还在适应这个笔记流程，第二天就觉得自己是史上最烂的编剧。

And I think the first day I was just getting over my initial like, okay, I'm in the notes process and the second day was like, I'm the worst writer ever who ever lived.

到了第三天，我就想，不，这本来就是常态。

And then in the third day I was like, nope, this is how it always is.

确实是这样。

It is.

这只是一个持续的应对过程。

It was just the running coping process.

对。

Yes.

就是那种神经质的编剧过程。

It was the, you know, neurotic writer process.

对。

Yeah.

所以

So

不。

No.

不。

No.

我理解你。

I'm with you.

我知道那种感觉。

I know what that's like.

而且确实是这样。

And and it is.

确实，你经历的这些，其他编剧也都会经历。

It is you you didn't go through anything that the other writers don't go through as well.

是的。

Yeah.

所以

So

对。

yeah.

因为我有一群很好的

Because I got a good bunch

编剧。

of writers.

是的。

Yes.

你确实有。

You do.

我，我，我很幸运。

I I'm I'm lucky.

确实。

Big time.

确实，都是很棒的编剧。

Big time, great writers.

好的。

Okay.

所以，你知道，我们在这一集里有一个有趣的发现。

So, you know, we had we had an interesting realization in this one.

这一集对你来说很难处理，因为我们必须让沃尔特意识到发生了什么。

This was a tough one for you to tackle because we have to make Walt realize what's going on.

而且我们没有让角色待在同一个房间里。

And we don't we don't have characters in the same room.

所以那是一个难题。

So that was a tough one.

对你们编剧团队来说，那是不是很难处理？

Was that a tough one for you guys in the writers room?

写起来确实挺难的。

Tough one to write.

你们是怎么克服这些困难的？

How did you attack those hurdles?

我们整个赛季都在担心这件事，对吧？

We're kinda dreading this all season long, aren't we?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我们确实是这样。

I think we were.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，从某种意义上说，这对我们来说是不同寻常的一年，希望每一年都和其他年份不一样。

I mean, in the sense of, you know, this is a different kind of a year for us as hopefully every year is a different kind of a year from every other.

但是，你知道，当你的观众远远领先于你的主角时，这确实是个棘手的问题。

But, you know, this it it's a tricky thing when your when your audience is way way ahead of your your main character.

而且听众朋友们，你们听这个播客的，整个这一季都比沃尔特·怀特知道得多，因为沃尔特自己不知道，有两个疯狂的墨西哥贩毒集团杀手追了他一整季。

And the audience, you guys listening to this podcast have been way ahead of Walter White all season long because Walt, unbeknownst unbeknownst to Walt, you got these two crazy Mexican hit cartel hitmen after him for the whole season long.

他完全不知道，其实在第二集里，他洗澡的时候，那两个人就已经进过他的卧室了。

And he does little does he know they were actually in his bedroom when he was showering back in episode two.

他也不知道自己多少次差点就被人用斧头劈开脑袋了。

Little does he know the near misses, how close he came to getting an axe and the skull.

所以我们知道，到了某个节点，显然，我们肯定得让事情水落石出，让沃尔特知道到底发生了什么，也就是我们观众早就知道的事情。

And so we knew at a certain point, obviously, it it stands it to reason at a certain point we'd have to let the other shoe drop and let Walt know just what was going on, what we, the audience, already knew.

所以这一集真的是非常非常重要的一集。

So this was this is a big, big episode.

想想看，这可以说是整季里最重要的几集之一，因为这一刻。

One of the biggest of the season when you think about it because this is the moment.

就是这一集。

This is the episode.

就在这一集里，他知道了所有事情的真相，或者说至少开始知道真相了。

The moment resides within this episode where he learns the truth about all this stuff or starts to learn the truth at least.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且这确实很难拍成戏剧化的场面，因为我们不想拍那种他找人倾诉、有人告诉他真相的戏。我们讨论过要不要拍那样的场景，但最后决定不拍。

And it was I mean, was hard to traumatize because we didn't want to have a scene where he we talked about having scenes where who does he talk it through with to somebody fill him in and we didn't want to do that.

所以我们安排了他和杰西在电话里的那场戏，你能稍微看到他的心理活动，因为总得有点东西。然后，表兄弟那场戏非常直观，从沃尔特的角度看，他明显被盯上了。

So we had his one scene with Jesse on the phone where you see his mental process a little bit because we had to have something, I And then obviously the cousin scene is very visceral and he's so clearly keyed in on Walt from Walt's perspective.

所以就是在平衡这些，既要让沃尔特意识到事情不对劲，又要试着把沃尔特琢磨、思考的过程戏剧化地表现出来。

So it was kind of balancing that, the idea that this was gonna be such a big thing that happened that Walt has to realize something's going on and then sort of trying to dramatize a little bit of Walt sort of mulling it over and thinking it through.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

我是说，这确实挺棘手的。

I mean, it's it's tricky.

抱歉。

Sorry.

这一切都摆在那儿了，

It's all out there for

有一阵子了。

a minute.

不过作为观众，我觉得挺过瘾的，你知道，就是能跟上剧情，看到沃尔特终于明白古斯知道多少，也明白自己到底有多危险。

And and really satisfying though, like for me as a viewer to, you know, to catch up and to see and for Walt to see how much Gus knows and how how screwed he really is.

对。

Yeah.

当你的英雄终于开始有点醒悟的时候，真是松了一口气。

It's a relief when your hero finally kinda starts to clue in.

对。

Yeah.

这是因为，你知道，你说得对。

It's because we you know, you're right.

你刚才说的，我们聊了很久，因为观众不想为了追上主角的进度而放慢节奏。

What you just said, I mean, it's it's like we we talked for the longest time about I mean, because the audience doesn't wanna slow down just to catch up the main character.

所以我们讨论过，要不要为沃尔特把这一切重新梳理一遍。

So we talked about, you know, do we have to rehash all of this for Walt?

没错。

Right.

我们想出的一个办法，我特别自豪，而且你写那场戏写得特别棒，就是沃尔特怎么想明白的，或者说那个恍然大悟的时刻，那个触发点是什么。

And one of the things we came up with, I'm so proud of, and you did a heck of a job writing the actual scene and and was the actual how Walt figures it out or or what the dawning moment, what the impetus is, the dawning moment is.

就是那个表弟从床上爬下来，用他那血淋淋的残肢，眼里充满仇恨，朝着他爬过去。

And that is this cousin crawling out of the bed on a stumpy on his bloody stumps and with hate in his eyes and crawling toward

那是……

the Was that

你呢？

you?

那个是你想出来的吗？

Did you come up with that?

不是，那个不是。

That no.

那个，我是说，那是文斯·吉利根的。

That would I mean, that that's a Vince Gilligan.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

专利。

Patented.

你知道吗？

You know?

不过，那是我吗？

Was it me, though?

我不是在装模作样。

And I'm not being disingenuous.

你知道，我现在就该说，编剧室里发生了太多事情，就像是一个集体思维。

You know, I should say right now, so much happens in the writer's room where it is like a group mind.

我不是在装模作样。

And I'm not being disingenuous.

编剧室里发生的很多事情，我完全记不清是谁说的，我甚至不确定是不是我说的。

It so many things that happen in the writers room, I I lose complete track of who said what, and I I wouldn't even be sure it was me.

而且真的，你知道，就像是一个集体思维。

And and it really is where, you know, it's like a group mind.

这本身就是一件很酷的事情，我们有时候就像一个人一样思考。

It's and which is a cool thing in and of itself that we all kinda think like one brain sometimes.

那真是厉害。

That is scales.

有人说点什么，然后别人接着补充，再补充。

People say something, and then somebody adds to that and adds that.

比如说，我也不太清楚。

Like, I don't know.

我的意思是，当时有那个，他腿脚不太利索，他四处张望，我也不太确定，你知道的。

I mean, there was the and he's got the stuffy legs and he's looking and I don't, you know

因为那个想法可能当时并不存在。

because it might not have been there.

谁

Who

想出来的这个主意，但它就是这样一点点积累起来的。

came up with the idea but it sort of builds and builds

一点点积累起来的。

and builds.

对。

Yes.

就像是

It's like

我总是想把所有那些特别恶心的点子都归功于你。

I just always like to credit you with all the, like, really gross ideas.

所以，嗯，

So Well,

这个点子就是他打电话到阿尔伯克基告诉我们，猜猜我们想到了什么？

and this is one that he called, you know, called us in Buquerque to say, guess what we came up with?

接下来会发生这样的事。

This is what's gonna happen.

我们都特别自豪。

And we were all very proud.

我记得那件事。

I remember that.

那是一个你兴奋到打电话给我们，一步步讲给我们听的点子。

That was one of the, you know, that was something you were excited enough to call us to walk us through.

是的。

Yes.

再说一遍，没有双关的意思。

Again, no pun

没有双关。

intended.

但你知道，那真是一个相当精彩的片段，由我们出色的导演科林·巴克斯执导得非常棒。

But it's it's, you know, it it was a heck of a it was a heck of a sequence directed very wonderfully by Colin Bucks, our excellent director.

这是第二集。

Is the second episode.

他上一季执导了第十二集，是凯莉剪辑的。

He did two twelve last season, which Kelly edited.

对。

Yeah.

就是沃尔特·怀特看着简死去的那一集。

That was the one where Walt White watches Jane die.

是的。

Yeah.

那是《凤凰》那一集。

That was Phoenix.

我现在不常去片场了。

I'm not in the set that often anymore.

能去片场真是太幸运了。

That was so lucky to be on the set.

可惜第八集我一次都没去片场。

And I wouldn't on the set, unfortunately, for any of episode eight here.

但看简死去、沃尔特看着她死的那场戏，我是在片场的。

But I was on the set for watching Jane die and Walt watching her die.

那场戏演得真是绝了。

And that was that was some amazing acting.

科林在那集干得很棒，这一集也干得很棒。

Colin did a great job on that episode, did a great job on this one.

然后，对，我们稍微聊聊

And, yeah, talk a little bit

关于《夜行者》里你们认识的那个人？

about Somebody you you guys you know from Night Stalker?

没错。

That's right.

我很久以前就认识科林·巴克西了，当时我写了一集ABC电视台的短命剧《夜行者》，这部剧当然是达伦·麦加文原版《夜行者》的重拍版。

I met Colin Buxie way back when I wrote one episode of a short lived ABC TV show called Night Stalker, which is, of course, a remake of the original Darren McGavin, Night Stalker.

我朋友弗兰克·斯波尼茨创作了这部重拍剧。

My friend Frank Spomnitz created the remake.

他请科林·巴克西执导一集，而我写的那集自由投稿正好碰上了科林。

And he hired Colin Buxi to direct an episode and I happened to draw Colin when I wrote my one freelance episode.

科林和他真的非常合得来。

And Colin just really hit it off with him.

他做得非常出色，因为那一集全部发生在一个房间里。

He did a really wonderful job because that was an episode that took place all in one room.

就是我们说的那种“瓶子剧”。

It was what we call a bottle show.

基本上都在一个房间里。

Pretty much all in one room.

其他地方还有几个场景。

Couple other scenes elsewhere.

而这一集，也就是《绝命毒师》第八集，并不是一集瓶装剧。

And this this episode, while episode eight, Breaking Bad, is not a bottle episode.

对我们这部剧来说，它是一集比较安静、更偏沉思型的剧集，大部分场景都发生在医院里。

It is a for our show anyway, a somewhat quieter, more contemplative type episode that takes place, the majority of it takes place in a hospital.

对。

Yeah.

而且有很多电话对话。

And a lot of phone conversations.

是的。

And Yeah.

但真的很有意思。

And but just really interesting stuff.

有时候导演这种戏份并不容易，还要保持画面有趣。

It's not sometimes not that easy to direct that kind of stuff and keep it visually interesting.

我觉得科林做得非常出色。

And I think Colin did a wonderful job.

当然，他们聊的内容因为你的关系也很有趣，很多有意思的对话，总之就是很棒。

Then, of course, what they're talking about because of you is a lot of fun stuff, a lot of interesting conversations, and and and it's just yeah.

所以，不。

So No.

而且科林，我得说，他确实争取过。

And Colin, I mean, to his credit, lobbied.

有一场电话对话，是古斯和博尔萨在通话，我们拍了那场戏。

There's a phone conversation where Gus is talking to Bolsa, and we shot that.

他走在洛斯波洛斯·赫尔马诺斯餐厅外面。

He's walking outside of Los Pollos Hermanos.

那是个夜景。

It's a night shot.

而且我觉得，那画面真的很美。

And it's, I think, really beautiful.

对。

Yeah.

其实剧本里写的是在室内拍的。

And it's something actually scripted to take place inside.

室内。

Interior.

然后他就说，我们在室内拍得太多了。

And this was something that he's like, we're inside so much.

就说，让我到外面来拍这个。

Like, you know, let me shoot this out here.

我觉得这样会增色不少，你知道，就是那种动态感会更强。

I think it'll add a lot, you know, just in terms of the you know, how dynamic it'll be.

而且我觉得他说得对，那场戏确实值得争取。

And and and I think he was right, and I think it was a sort of a scene worth fighting for.

他绝对是对的，但跟他们聊聊那意味着什么，因为你知道，你可能会说，哎呀，大家直接走出去，我们在外面拍不就行了。

He was definitely right, but speak to them about what that means because it's you know, you could say, well, gee, just everybody walk outside and we'll shoot it outside.

那要花很多钱。

That's a lot of money.

而且我说那场戏还用了起重机。

And I say used a crane in that shot too.

对。

Too.

他们降下来

They come down

用起重机。

with a crane.

不。

No.

这可不是小事。

It's it's not a small deal.

你知道，因为我们有Gus的办公室，那其实是个布景。

It's, you know, because, you know, we we have Gus's office which which is actually a set.

在布景里拍摄的话，成本会低一些。

And when we shoot on our sets, it's cheaper.

对。

Yeah.

但去户外实景拍摄就麻烦多了，不过我们反正也要去那里。

And going outdoors and going to a location is a big deal, but we were going to be there anyway.

对。

Yeah.

所以他说，他的想法是，我们好好利用那个外景地。

So he want he said, you know, his pitch was, let's let's take advantage of that location.

而且你知道，跟导演之间总是要讨价还价的，你对某场戏特别坚持，对另一场戏就比较灵活。

And and and, you know, and it's all sort of horse trading that goes on with the directors where, you know, you feel really strongly about one scene, you know, and you're more flexible about another scene.

而且那一集我们还有个额外的挑战，珍妮应该记得，当时下雪了，我们拍的是第三集第七集的那场枪战，我们硬是把那集提前了一天，提前开拍，就是为了把晴天留给第三集第七集。

And, you know, we had an added challenge that episode, as Jenny will remember, that, you know, there was snow and we we had the shootout from 03:07 and we literally pulled this episode up a day and shot it and started shooting a day early so that we could keep sort of a sunny day clear for episode three zero seven.

所以珍妮，她第一次拍电视剧，真的是提前了。

So Jenny, her first episode of television was literally early.

对。

Yeah.

差不多就是少了一天的准备时间。

It was sort One day less prep.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

然后后来又把那补回来了，我们

And then made up for that We

补回来了。

made it up.

对。

Yeah.

但那确实挺难的。

But that's tough.

这正好说明Colin Bucksie是个老手，而你作为新人，处理得非常棒。

That just shows what an old pro Colin Bucksie is and how you rolled with it very nicely being the being the new pro.

对。

Yeah.

我们过了一遍剧本，和Stu一起商量，他给了我们建议，然后我们大家也都过了一遍，说，嗯，我觉得根据演员的档期，我们可以做这个、这个和这个。

We went through the script and figured out with and Stu gave us suggestions, and we all kinda went through and said, well, I think we can do this and this and this depending on actor availability.

什么是最不，嗯，有挑战性、最不费力的？

What would be the least, yeah, challenging and and demanding to

我不想做那个，Amber。

I didn't wanna do it, Amber.

我不想，我不想在一天之内就得跳来跳去，但你们，我是说，没人想这样。

I didn't wanna I didn't wanna have to jump at a day, but you guys I mean, not nobody did.

虽然不是最理想的，但我觉得我们已经尽力了。对。

It's not ideal, but I think we made the best of Yeah.

然后，当然，结果没下雪。

And then, of course, it turned out not to snow.

对。

Yeah.

天气特别好。

The weather was perfect.

该死的天气，错过了。

Of damn weather missed.

对。

Yeah.

我知道。

I know.

制作。

Production.

明明有暴风雪，结果却没有。

There's a freaking blizzard, and it was No.

但是下雪了。

But it snowed.

然后，哦，天完全放晴了，

And it oh, it totally cleared,

不过。

though.

对，是的。

It yeah.

放晴了。

Cleared.

阳光明媚。

It was sunny.

但是我们结束的那天没下雪，

But it didn't snow the day that we

我们结束了。

ended it.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我们拍摄那天。

The day we were shooting.

我们拍摄那天，本来

The day we were shooting, it would

应该没问题的。

have been just fine.

对。

Yeah.

我们拍摄那天，天气很好。

The day we were shooting, it was fine.

做得对。

Right call.

好的。

Okay.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

而且，你知道，这种事没有对错之分，因为你无法预知未来。

It and then, you know, there's no right call or wrong call about something like this because you can't know the future.

你只能根据当时掌握的最好的知识和信息，做一个有根据的猜测。

You you gotta take your best knowledge, your best information at the time, and and make a educated guess.

对。

Yeah.

但是

But

这就是那些幕后发生的事情之一，你

It's just one of those things that goes on behind the scenes that, you

知道的，是的。

know Yeah.

让它保持新鲜感。

Keeps it fresh.

对。

Yeah.

尼克，你们能稍微聊聊这个的视觉效果吗，就是关于腿的那部分，还有那个

Nick, can you guys talk a little bit about the visual effects on this where with the legs and the

嗯，这里的大场面就是Stumpy McGee从床上跳出来

Well, this the the big scene here with Stumpy McGee jumping out of bed

然后，对。

and Yeah.

摔倒在血淋淋的树桩下面。

Falling under the bloody stumps.

对。

Yeah.

这个，还有，是丹尼尔，那个从没演过戏的表哥。

This And was Daniel who had never acted, the cousin who had never acted before.

是的。

Yes.

丹尼尔·蒙卡多，我们两个表哥之一，不像他弟弟，我相信他弟弟已经当演员有一阵子了。

Daniel Moncado, one of our two cousins who unlike his brother who has made his living, I believe, as an actor for a while now.

嗯。

Mhmm.

据我们所知，丹尼尔之前没演过戏，对吧，但他表现得非常好。

Daniel has not acted before to the best of our knowledge, right, and did a wonderful job.

那这两个是谁选的角呢？

Who cast those two though?

是刘易斯自己过来说他有个兄弟，还是怎么回事？

Did Lewis just come in and say I have a brother or how did that work?

是我们的选角导演，

It was our casting directors,

雪莉

Sherry

托马斯和莎伦，我们在找长得像的演员，可能演双胞胎或兄弟。

Thomas and Sharon who we were looking for actors that looked alike that could play possibly twins, brothers.

然后雪莉和莎伦认识刘易斯，就让他来了，刘易斯告诉她们他有个兄弟。

And Sherri and Sharon knew Lewis, had him come in, and and Lewis told them that he had a brother.

所以她们就说，把他带来。

And so they're like, bring him in.

对。

Yeah.

她们给了我们一些全身照，你知道，这些家伙，我们之前说过，纹身非常复杂。

They and, know, they, you know, gave us a sort of shot full body shots, which, you know, and these guys, as we've talked about before, very complex tattoo works.

没有。

No.

我开玩笑的。

I'm just kidding.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我们看得挺清楚的。

We got a good look.

说到这个，这对这个行业来说算是比较新的事情，大概最近十年、五年左右吧，以前在《X档案》的时候不是这样的。

Well, speaking of that, I mean, that's that's a new thing for the business relatively within the last ten years, five years or so is used to be on the X Files.

在《X档案》的时候，我们的选角导演其实每天都在片场那边的办公室里。

We'd actually have our casting person actually, on the X Files, we had our casting person in an in in one of our offices on the lot there every day of the week.

我们会走到他的办公室，里克·米利肯，人特别好。

And we would walk to his office, Rick Milliken, really good guy.

我们会走到他办公室，看演员们试镜，为要准备的剧集选角。

We'd walk to his office and watch, you know, actors audition on audition day for whatever episode we're prepping.

现在，我其实从来没去过Sharon和Sherry的办公室。

Nowadays, I've never actually been to Sharon and Sherry's office.

是的。

Yeah.

而且他们经常搬来搬去。

And they move around all the time.

我不知道

I don't

他们在做什么节目。

what show they're doing.

我不知道

I don't

得把Rick送过去

have to deliver Rick

你很难

You'd be hard

很难找到他们。

to find them.

邮件，顺便说一句，

Mail by the

顺便说一下。

way.

里克是个好人。

Rick's a good guy.

那是我第一份工作，哦，向里克·米利肯致敬。

That was my first job in the Oh, shout

向里克·米利肯致敬。

out to Rick Millican.

希望他一切都好。

Hope he's doing

他当助理的时候，我给他送过邮件。

I delivered his mail when he was an assistant.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

他当时是另一个选角导演的助理。

He was an assistant to some other casting director.

那可真不简单。

And that's something.

就是觉得世界真小，

It was just like weird small

挺奇怪的。

world.

他是个好人。

He's a good guy.

他，我，我们节目能请到布莱恩·克兰斯顿，全靠里克·米利肯。

He's I I I we have Bryan Cranston on our show because of Rick Millican.