绝命毒师内幕 310

对。

Right.

但在电视和电影里，你没有这个过程，你会习惯于做完一件事就结束，然后你的大脑开始锻炼那种把刚说过的话抹掉的肌肉，因为明天还有事情要做。

But in television and film, you don't have that process and you have you get accustomed to doing something, finishing it, and and your brain starts to exercise that muscle of wiping away what you just said because you have things for tomorrow that you need.

所以当时我们不确定是否还能回到那种像剧场一样的模式。

And so it was questionable whether or not we're back in that system up in a theater like mode.

但做起来挺有意思的。

But it was fun to do.

而且这个过程对演员来说总是最有趣的，能够把东西拆解开来，和编剧、导演、演员一起，共同创造出那种连贯性，你知道吗？

And the process is always the most fun for actors, to be able to break something down and get together with the writers, the director, and the actors and together come up with that cohesiveness, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

这总是一件很微妙的事情。

It's always a very delicate thing.

对。

Yeah.

你真的不知道它会走向哪里。

You don't know really where it's gonna be.

你觉得，为了准备第二天而把之前的东西清空，会不会反而让之后重新回来再看的时候，多了一点新鲜感呢？

Do you think do you think having wiped it clean though in in an effort to get ready for the next day, do you think it's possible it added a little bit of freshness to to it going coming back and revisiting it?

嗯，我觉得当我们刚开始拍这一集的时候，我们意识到它就像一出戏。

Well, think I think when we first started the the episode, we we realized that it was it was like a play.

所以，因为我们有排练的奢侈，我觉得我们心里有些东西转变了，更接受一种整体的方式。

So I and because we had the luxury of the rehearsals, I think it it something shifted in us to accept more of a block

对。

Yep.

从整体上思考事情，从头到尾，而不是零碎的片段。

And thinking of things and more of beginning to end as opposed to fragmented pieces.

对。

Right.

你知道，如果听众不知道的话，我们在电影和电视拍摄中总是按顺序打乱的。

You know, which in in in case the the listeners don't know is that we always shoot out of sequence in film and television.

所以我们从来都不是按照你看到的成片顺序来拍摄的。

So we're in we're never shooting in the order that you're seeing the finished product in.

但这次你们不是按顺序拍的吗？

But this one you guys didn't you shoot it?

其实也不是。

Not really.

我是说，有点吧。

I mean, somewhat.

我觉得比平时更按顺序一些。

More so than usual, I think.

我们确实……

We to.

对。

Yeah.

而且有像那样的大块时间，比如我们花了一整天拍那个大场景。

And there were chunks like that I think that chunk where we took the whole day and shot that that big sequence.

我觉得那部分基本上是按顺序拍的，但我们还是有点跳来跳去。

I think that was mostly in order, but we still kind of hopped around.

而且，在理想情况下，不管是拍电影还是电视剧，你都会按顺序拍，但就是不可能，因为有很多日程安排上的问题，或者技术上的问题。

And and you in a perfect world, and on a movie, TV show, no matter what, you you would shoot in order, but it just the the the it's just it's impossible because there are so many scheduling issues or so many technical issues.

对。

Yeah.

所以你永远没法真正做到。

That you you can never really do it.

对。

Yeah.

嗯，Brian，我很好奇，因为这是我最喜欢的剧集之一。

Well, know, Brian, I I'm curious because this is one of my favorite episodes ever.

而且，我真的很喜欢参与制作和剪辑它。

And, I mean, I really, really enjoyed working on it and cutting it.

但它就是有很多层次。

But it's just there's so many levels to it.

这里面有喜剧的成分，但也有很深层次的东西，你知道，就是关于沃尔特的那种挫败感。

There's a comedy level to it, and then there's such the deep level, you know, to it about, you know, Walt's, you know, frustration.

沃尔特，你知道，他这时候肩上扛着很多担子，但同时他心里也背负着很多愧疚。

Walt's you know, Walt is carrying a lot on his shoulders at this point, but he's also carrying a lot of guilt.

我很喜欢这一点，我觉得编剧山姆和摩尔做得太出色了。

And I love the fact that I thought that they the writers, Sam and Moore, did such a wonderful job.

我经常跟文斯聊，我跟他说，你知道吗，我觉得这部剧讲的是那些擦肩而过的瞬间。

I always talk talk to Vince, and I said, you know, this this show to me is about near misses.

人们就像夜航的船，彼此错过。

It's people are it's almost like ships in the night.

他们就是刚好错过了。

They're just missing.

所以我想问问你，那一集的剧情走向是怎么设计的，因为一开始，你知道，就是很好笑。

And so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how how the arc of that episode went because at first, it's, you know, it's just funny.

我的意思是，简直好笑到不行。

I mean, it's hilariously funny.

你做的有些事，真的，我是说，你让我们笑得不行，真的是一直笑个不停。

Some of the things that you do are just, you know, I mean, you had us cracking up, literally cracking up all the time.

从来都不是，你知道的，看整个过程总是那么享受。

It was never you know, it was always such a pleasure to watch it the whole thing through.

就一直看下去，因为它变化太多了。

Just keep watching it because it just goes through so many changes.

那对你来说，作为演员，感觉怎么样？

So what was that like as an actor for you?

嗯，我觉得Ryan说的是，一开始你看剧本，试着客观地看，然后我发现它是有限制的。

Well, I think what Ryan was talking about is that at first you look at the at the script, try to look at it objectively and and I saw that it was contained.

一开始你可能会想，哦，感觉就像被困在一个盒子里。

And at first you might think, oh, we feel like you're in a box.

然后这就变成了一个挑战，要在那个范围内工作。

And then it becomes a challenge to be able to work within that.

有时候，说‘好吧，这就是我要工作的范围，现在我怎么让它变得有趣’反而更自由。

And sometimes it's it's more freeing to to say, alright, here's where I have to work in and now how can I make that interesting?

然后当我拿到剧本的时候，我会尽量客观地去找那些能出笑点的地方，尤其是像这样的剧，因为我觉得最好的正剧里都会恰到好处地撒上一些轻松的元素。

And then when I look at a script, I I try to objectively find the places where there can be humor, especially in a show like this because I think the the the best dramas have a nice sprinkling of of levity to them.

反过来，最好的喜剧里也有这些。

And conversely, so do the best comedies I have.

它们会有一些真诚和感人的时刻。

They have some some moments of of sincerity and pathos to them.

但一旦你开始演起来，我是说，沃尔特·怀特肯定完全不知道自己哪里好笑。

And but then once you start going, I mean, certainly Walter White has no idea that he's funny in any regard.

正是

That's

这一点让他好笑。

what makes him funny.

所以绝对不能有那种意识，你明白吧。

And so there can't be any consciousness consciousness of of that, that, you you know.

明白。

Know.

所以，这是你认识到的东西，然后你把它记下来，之后它就成为你排练和表演时流程的一部分。

So So that is something that you recognize and then you file away and then it becomes part of the the flow when you start rehearsing and and performing it.

但我是说，我就是喜欢挑战。

But I mean, I just love challenges.

所以，看着它、了解它，真的很有趣。

So it was it was it was fun to look at and and and to see.

另外，从后勤角度来说，我们通常有八天时间拍摄一集，但这一集我们只有七天时间。

We we also just on a on a logistical basis, we we usually have eight days to shoot this an episode and we had seven days on this episode to shoot.

所以，我们没有七天时间？

And so We didn't have seven days?

没有。

No.

我以为没有。

I thought it was No.

我以为我们有七天。

I thought we had seven days.

我以为是八天。我们……

I thought it was eight We

第八天是没你的时候拍的。

shot day day eight's shot without you.

我们拍了你的……

We had your

也许吧。

Maybe so.

对。

Yeah.

我以为是八天，七天？

I thought it was eight seven days?

真的吗？

Really?

八天。

Eight days.

好的。

Okay.

算了。

Never mind.

是的。

Yes.

从联合执行那边算，是八天。

Was eight From the co exec, you got eight days.

哦，我我我睡过去了一天。

Oh, I I I slept through one day.

账面上是八天。

Eight days on the books.

对索尼来说，我们就是八天。

As far as Sony is concerned, we had eight days.

不对。

No.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

别，不。

Don't No.

但是，你知道，而且，这，你……

But, you know, and and it it's You're

一开始玩得那么开心。

having so much fun at first.

我知道。

I know.

就是感觉时间过得太快了。

It just felt like it went so fast.

对。

Yeah.

玩得开心的时候，时间过得飞快。

Time flies when you're having fun.

不。

No.

飞

Fly

你。

you.

哇。

Woah.

拍马屁。

Butter up up.

链条。

Chain.

说到苍蝇，对。

Speaking of flies Yes.

那是我最好奇的事情，因为片场有一些实用的苍蝇，也就是真苍蝇，但我们并没有真的

That was the thing that I was most curious about because they were we had some practical flies on the set, which means real flies, but we didn't really

其实那些不是真的。

Well, they weren't real.

它们是小模型苍蝇。

They were little model flies.

但我们不是真的有像苍蝇一样的东西吗？

But didn't we have anything really like a fly?

我们没有真苍蝇。

We had no real fly.

没有真苍蝇。

No real fly.

你知道吗？

Know what?

我觉得是某个助理或者谁，自己带了一袋死苍蝇来。

Of the PAs, I think, or somebody brought in, just on their own, a bag of dead flies.

我当时就想，哦，觉得这可能会用上。然后我们就问，你从哪儿弄来的？

And I was like, oh, thought this might And we're like, where did you get them?

我们其实不太想那样。

Kind We of didn't wanna

这就像是一种献祭。

It's like an offering.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

这是为了那些为你而存在的谎言。

It's for having thought that lies for you.

是的，

Yeah,

我们手头有的那些东西，那些实体苍蝇，是洛杉矶一个家伙做的，我想是，对。

with with the things we had, the physical flies we had were made by this guy in LA, I think, who Yeah.

米歇尔·范。

Michelle Pham.

他不是。

He was No.

马克的功劳。

Mark props on

对。

him.

哦。

Oh.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

它们太棒了。

They were amazing.

他一开始是飞钓的，自己做鱼饵。

He started out as a fly fisherman and was making his own, you know, flies.

后来转行给电影行业做鱼饵。

And then he transitioned into making them for the movie business.

那些鱼饵真的非常精致，做工简直令人惊叹。

And there were these incredible, I mean, just the craftsmanship on them was amazing.

这些东西出现在办公室里，我们都被它们惊艳到了。

These things showed up in the office and we're just blown away by them.

而且它们在剧集里出现得还挺多的。

I and there are and they are in the episode quite a bit.

我觉得大多数时候你看到一只苍蝇就那样停在那里，那很可能就是其中之一。

I'd say most of the times that you see a fly just like sitting there and it's it's probably one of these things.

也不完全是。

Not so much.

也不完全是。

Not so much.

这个

This

对你来说是个很好的过渡。

a good segue for you.

是的。

Yeah.

好了，我们开始吧。

Here we go.

回到

Back

这里。

here.

我们来聊聊。

We'll talk.

嗯，这挺有意思的，因为结果发现。

Well, it it it's it's interesting because it turned out.

我的意思是，当我们开始做那些苍蝇的时候，确实有些时刻。

I mean, once we started making the flies that there there were moments.

关键是我们后来加了一些细微的小动作，对吧。

It's like the thing is that there are these tiny little movements that we ended up adding Right.

这让它看起来可信多了。

That that made it much more credible.

因为问题是，你知道，你看到一点闪光，那只苍蝇有闪亮的翅膀，有时候你看到一点闪光，但它根本不动。

Because when the thing is, you know, you see a little glint, that fly had shiny wings, and sometimes you'd see a little glint and it wouldn't move at all.

对。

Yeah.

而且过了一秒钟，你就会想，对。

And after just, you know, even a second, you're thinking, yeah.

这不是真的苍蝇。

It's not a real fault.

你们是不是用我们那儿的实物苍蝇作为跟踪标记，然后擦掉它，再放上数字苍蝇？

Did you use the practical fly we had there as basically a tracking mark, erase it, and put in the digital one?

差不多吧。

Pretty much.

对。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

你看，到目前为止，我还没看过这一集的最终特效，除了你刚才给我看的那一个镜头。

See, haven't seen the at this point, I haven't seen the finished finished effects on the episode except for that one shot that you just showed me.

所以是的。

So yeah.

我明白了。

I got it.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

我等不及了。

I can't wait.

虽然有点那个，但真的很棒。

It was it but it was great.

我的意思是，有真的苍蝇在那里，感觉特别好。

I mean, because it it was great having the real fly there.

实际上有些时候，你知道，它掉下来的超级慢动作。

There were actually moments in which, you know, the the the super slow motion of it falling.

对。

Right.

那是模型苍蝇在起作用。

That's that's that's the model fly doing its thing.

明白了。

Gotcha.

但比我们最初想象的要多得多，是的。

But in many more instances than we originally thought Yeah.

我们最后把替身给换掉了。

We we ended up replacing the stand in.

而且再说一遍，强调一下，不是因为模型本身做得不好。

And and then again, to be to be to be reinforced, not because the model itself wasn't wonderfully executed.

这位先生做的苍蝇模型很棒，但就像马特刚才说的，因为真苍蝇总会有一些小动作什么的。

This gentleman made a great model of a fly, but but but as as Matt just said, because a real fly is always doing a little twitching or something.

所以你们加了那一点点动作，让它看起来更逼真了。

So so you guys made it look that much more real by having that little bit of movement in there.

你知道吗，在片场挺搞笑的，因为我们在拍那些戏，要表演，还要处理很多情感上的东西。

You know, on the set, it was funny because we're we're you know, you're doing these scenes and you're acting and you have a lot of this emotional content that you're dealing with.

然后瑞安就会说，哦，好的。

And then and then Ryan would say, oh, okay.

现在大家保持位置，马特，马特，你进来吧。

Now just everybody hold your positions and Matt, Matt, come on in.

然后马特就进来，搞一些像巫术一样的东西。

And and Matt comes on in and does some kind of voodoo.

他走来走去拍照，然后说，来，拿着这个，然后……

He's walking around taking pictures and and here, hold this and

球体。

Orb.

拿一个……

Take a

他拿着一个地球仪之类的东西，一边移动一边拍照，我们就在旁边等着。

There was like a globe that he was moving around and taking pictures with it and it's like, we're just kinda holding off.

拿着它，我是在接受那种因果能量。

Holding it I was I was accepting the karmic energy.

哦，天哪。

Oh, grace.

是的。

Yes.

所以我们就暂停一下，等马特进来做那些事情。

And I guess So we would pause for a second while Matt comes in and does that.

他就说，好的。

He's like, okay.

他弄完了？

He's done?

好的。

Okay.

谢谢，Matt。

Thanks, Matt.

对。

Yeah.

其实不太清楚IT界到底在搞什么。

Not really knowing, you know, what exactly is going on in the IT world.

是的，Matt。

Yeah, Matt.

因为我之前没真正做过大型视觉特效项目。

Because I had never really done a big visual effects show.

所以我当时就想，这到底是什么鬼？

And so I was like, what the hell?

对。

Yeah.

因为我们拿到样片，看到演员的表演，但那些球也跟着一起出现。

Because we get the dailies in and we get a performance, but then we get that with these balls.

所以你能不能跟我们说说——我后来才知道那是什么。

So can you just tell our I found out later what it was.

但你能跟我们的观众讲讲那是什么吗？

But can you tell our audience what that is about?

它

It

看起来像个球。

looks like a ball.

其实那完全是瞎搞的，我们这么做就是为了让自己显得重要。

It's it's complete nonsense, and we just do it to make ourselves seem important.

没错。

Right on.

对。

Right.

所以现在你

So now you

知道了。

know.

嗯，你知道，问题是你得在那个空的地方放点东西进去。

Well, you know, the thing is you're gonna be putting something in the in in in the space that that isn't there.

所以我们基本上就是拿一个闪亮的银色球，你拍张照，它会产生反射。

So we just have basically a shiny silver ball that you take a picture of and it makes a reflection.

我在家里对着镜头挥手呢。

I'm waving my arms for those at home.

但这个反射能展示出整个环境，就是如果有个东西放在那里，它在光照方面会经历的一切。

But it makes a reflection that shows every single it shows the entire environment that something sitting there would be experiencing in terms of lighting.

然后我们用一颗灰色漫反射球，来展示光线和阴影在它上面的效果。

And then we do it with a gray diffuse ball that shows just kind of the way the the way light and shadow plays on it.

这是我们给那只苍蝇打光时用的第一个工具。

And that's the first thing that we use when we light the the fly.

当然，确定好实际环境之后，我们会回去再加一些额外的灯光，这样你才能看清那玩意儿。

Then, of course, having decided what's actually there, we go back and add some extra lighting on it so that you can see the goddamn thing.

那这个球有多大呢？

Well, now how big is this ball?

它不一定要和苍蝇一样大。

It doesn't have to be the same size as the fly.

对吧？

Right?

就像个圣诞球。

It's like a Christmas ball.

那些球可大了。

Was balls were huge.

很大。

Big.

你说什么？

I beg your pardon?

抱歉。

Sorry.

是不是有

Were there

好几种不同的尺寸。

were several different sizes.

有一个反光特别强。

There was one that was really reflective.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

大概就这么大。

And it was about this big.

对。

Right.

差不多，你知道，就是

About, you know, the

排球那么大。

size of volleyball.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

然后可能。

And perhaps.

然后还有一个小的，表面比较暗淡，没有

And then there was a smaller one that was dull and that didn't have

没错。

Exactly.

反光特性。

Reflective qualities.

尺寸上的差异其实是为了方便。

The the difference in size is kind of kind of by convenience.

你知道吗？

You know?

它们可以有不同的大小。

They they they can be different sizes.

如果太小的话，就很难把所有信息都记录上去，因为图像太小了。

When they get too small, it's hard to record all the information on them because it's a tiny image.

所以它得足够大才能做到这一点，但又不能太大，免得你带着这些巨大的东西过海关。

So it needs to be big enough to kinda do it and small enough so that you're not hauling these gigantic things through customs or

有趣的是，当马特，当我们不得不抽出时间让马特在每个有苍蝇的场景里出现时。

or The interesting thing is that when Matt when we had to take the the time out to have Matt come through on each scene that that the fly was in.

对。

Right.

我们得停下来看看，而且剧组里没人知道他

We had to kinda pause and see what and nobody on the crew knew what he

在干什么。

was doing.

我们就直接走过去说，嘿，Matt。

And we just got on the way and go, hey, Matt.

你走了吗？

You gone?

是的。

Yeah.

天哪。

God.

我知道。

I know.

得处理一下你的那些球什么的。

Need to do with your balls and everything.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，直到现在才真正体会到那份感激。

It's You know, it's not until the appreciation comes now.

没错。

Exactly.

就是爱你。

It's love you.

哦，原来他是这么做的。

Oh, that's what he did.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是

That's

我们爱你的地方。

where we love you.

瑞安。

Ryan.

我们当时还在做的另一件事是

The other thing that we were doing

哦，抱歉。

Oh, I'm sorry.

对。

Yeah.

简单说就是，我们在对整个环境拍静帧，用来记录环境当时的样子，因为后来有一段时间我们得做大量的电线拆除工作，这需要把电线后面的环境替换成当时看起来的样子。

Just really quickly is we were kind of taking stills of the entire environment so that we were documenting what the environment looked like because there was a time later when we had to do a bunch of wire removals and that entailed replacing the environment behind the wire with something that looks like it was there at the time.

而且我们实际上还得用CG，也就是计算机生成部分天花板，因为那太复杂了，对。

And we actually had to CG, which means computer generate part of the ceiling because it was such a complicated Yeah.

跟他们说说吧，因为这是你们做的很棒的事情，但外行人从来不会因此给你们任何功劳，因为他们怎么会知道呢？

Tell them because this is the wonderful thing you guys do that you don't ever get any credit for from lay people because how would they know?

但是，我是说，跟他们讲讲那整个最后一段，就是那个，对。

But, I mean, tell them about the the that whole last sequence with Yeah.

就是Aaron站在梯子上的那个，Jesse站在梯子上的那个。

With Aaron up on the Jesse up on the ladder.

在你们开始之前，我想提一下，很遗憾Aaron Paul今天不能来。

Before you start, I just wanted to mention that also Aaron Paul could unfortunately, couldn't be with us today.

他在度假。

He is on vacation.

他在某个地方度假。

He's on somewhere on vacation.

但是，我听说他确实……

But he I was told that he did.

他上那个带梯子的装置时，身上是系了钢丝的。

He has a wire on when he goes up on that contraption with the ladder.

我们当时就想，天哪。

And we were like going, holy cow.

他摔了多少次？

How many times did he fall?

我听说他一次都没摔过。

And I hear that he never fell.

他一次都没摔。

He never fell.

我是说，那我们为什么还要

I mean So why do we

花钱装那根钢丝呢？

have to waste some money on the wire?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

这就是我想说的。

That's what I try

不过，我想告诉大家的是，他确实系了钢丝，而且你看到的那些镜头里其实有好几根钢丝，都是马特和他的团队后来一一移除的。

to But just to let everybody know out there that he did have a wire and all of those there were actually a couple of wires in the shots that you see, and they all had to be removed by Matt and his crew.

对。

Mhmm.

那些是安全钢丝，系在他身上，万一他摔下来，能被接住。

They were they were safety wires hooked on to him so that if he did fall, that he would be caught by the

但他还得跟你对抗，对吧？

But he had to fight you as well too.

你是不是站在栏杆错误的那一边了？

Were you on the wrong side of the railing?

我当时在栏杆另一边，正伸手去拿鞋，是的。

When I was on the other side of the railing reaching for my shoe Yeah.

我也得系钢丝。

I I had to wear a wire as well.

说到这个，我还没看过呢。

Speaking of which, I haven't seen yet.

把它和坠落镜头拼接起来效果很好。

It worked fine stitching it together with the fall.

哦，看起来很棒。

Oh, looks great.

看起来，哦，太棒了。

It looks oh, it's fantastic.

顺便说一句，给大家透露一点幕后花絮，就是沃尔特从实验室上层摔下来，掉到那个大桶上，再摔到地上的那个镜头。

By the way, just so a little peek behind the curtain so everybody knows, the the fall where Walt falls from the upper part of the lab onto that big vat and into the ground.

那是替身演员做的，伙计。

That is a stunt, man.

哦，别这么说。

Oh, don't say that.

对，是的。

And Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

但那个镜头是设计好的，我想你设计的时候就是打算让摄像机基本上最终拍成一个连续镜头。

But it it was it was design I guess you designed the shot to where the camera was basically it was just gonna be eventually one shot.

看起来就像是一个镜头。

It looked like it was one shot.

然后特技演员摔下来，站起来，走开了。

And a stuntman fell and then got up and moved away.

然后布莱恩过去摆好位置，我们靠近沃尔特，对。

And Brian went and got in the position and then we move in close on on Walt Yeah.

苍蝇落在他的眼镜上。

With the fly landing on his glasses.

我告诉你，你还没看过那个镜头。

And I'll get you haven't seen it.

看起来太棒了。

It looks amazing.

我们有点担心，但我说，马特，你看，你知道你能做到的，而且看起来很棒。

We were a little I was worried, but I I was like, look, Matt, see what you can you know, I knew you could do it, and it looks great.

我们几周前看了最终混音版，你知道的。

We saw it, you know, a couple weeks ago, you know, the final mix on it.

太棒了。

It's amazing.

就是

It's

有点痛苦。

a pain.

看着也难受。

Also to watch.

我还想特别提一下，从搭建到特技这些环节，整个制作过程真的很棒。

I I also wanna throw in a shout out just for the way it was put together between, like, rigging and stunts and stuff.

当他站在梯子上的时候，你看着那个画面，简直让人惊叹。

When he was up on that ladder, you know, it just look you're looking at it, and it's like, woah.

看起来好危险啊。

It looks so precarious.

而且，当然，你知道，大部分场景里，那个梯子都是固定在那些可移动的桌子上的。

And, of course, you know, for most of the scenes, that ladder is bolted onto those roll around tables.

哦，你说的是Aaron。

Oh, you're talking about Aaron.

对。

Yeah.

我说的是Aaron。

I'm talking about Aaron.

而且光是剪辑的方式，我是知道怎么拍的，但每次他上去的时候我还是很害怕。

Well and just the way it was cut together, mean, I I know how it went together, and I'm still scared from every time he's up.

对。

Yeah.

我也是。

Me too.

我看上去也特别悬。

I just look so precarious.

说实话。

Honestly.

而且，是艾德·杜兰替我做那个摔落的动作的，他是我的替身演员。

And it was it was Ed Duran who who made that fall for me to as my stunt devil.

对。

Yeah.

他，那个动作真的很惊险，因为他撞到了那个水箱，我们当时都只是……

And he well, that that was harrowing because he hit that tank and it was with a we all just

是啊，我们都……

Well, we're all

那一路。

the way.

整整一周前……

Entire week leading

在那之前，他早就描述过他要做什么了。

up to it, he had described what he was gonna do.

我们当时都觉得，真的假的？

And we're all like, really?

你确定吗？

Are you sure?

你

Are you

确定要这么做吗？

sure you're gonna do it?

然后我们想，你知道吗？

And we're like, you know what?

如果他真的打算做，那可能没我们想的那么可怕。

It must not be as bad as we're all thinking if he's actually gonna do it.

结果真发生了，他真做了，我们都惊呆了，天哪。

And then it happened, he did it, and we're all just like, holy shit.

那比我们想象的还要糟糕。

It was it was worse than we had to, like, imagine.

然后我们就……

Then we like

你差不多活了四天。

You live for nearly four days.

确实。

It was.

你知道吗，还有件好笑的事，就是它来的时候，我们看了，也听了。

You know what you know what's funny too is when it came in, we watched it, and we listened.

我觉得，嗯，我确定音效是给我们混音增强了，但你知道吗？

And I don't think well, I mean, I'm sure that sound effects has enhanced it for our mix, but you know what?

我们从来没有在房间里对那次摔倒做过什么处理。

I never we never did anything in the room to that fall.

我的意思是，当他摔下去，落在——我猜是水泥地上——那真是够疼的。

I mean, when he falls down and he lands on, I'm assuming it's cement, it's just as painful.

我是说，你整个人都缩成一团了。

I mean, you just cramp.

那个水箱本身是固定不动的。

The tank itself was immovable.

它是被螺栓固定住的，所以不会

It was it was bolted down so that it wouldn't

滑出去。

slide out.

对。

Right.

所以他撞到那个水箱，然后弹到水泥地上，

So he hit that and bounced off of that onto the concrete floor,

然后我们

and we're

就说，天哪。

like, oh my god.

他还在说，继续滚。

And he's saying, keep rolling.

继续滚。

Keep rolling.

然后我不得不在他们还在滚的时候，我看到他的最终位置，我得进去匹配他的最终位置，然后那样做。

And then I had to while they're still rolling, he got I saw his end position, and I had to go in and match his end position, and then do that.

然后你就开始推它了。

And then then you started to push it.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

等一下。

Wait a minute.

你看，你连镜头都没切一下？

See, you didn't even cut the camera between?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

明白了

Got

他搞错了。

he's got it wrong.

我们刚才确实有。

We just had yeah.

我们刚才有那个卡住的眼神定格，还有布莱恩记录了他当时的位置。

We had the stuck eye freeze, and we had Brian clock, like, where he was at.

就搞清楚他在哪儿，还有他具体跑进去的位置。

Just figure out where he is and exactly He ran in.

位置

Position

就是那样。

it was.

我们没用视频切换器之类的设备吗？

And we didn't use a video switcher or anything?

对。

Yeah.

嗯，那天在场的戴夫·斯坦普负责监督，他快速做了个合成。

Well, Dave Stump, who was there on the day, was supervising on that day, he did a quick comp.

做了个小检查，就知道这方案能行。

Did a little check and knew it was gonna work.

对。

Yeah.

而且你当时就能看出来，

And you could tell already that it was

这个合成会很顺利。

gonna go together well.

对。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

对。

Yeah.

然后呢，你知道，当我们给Matt看的时候，我就说，这是我们想要的。

It was And really then, you know, when then, you know, we showed Matt and I said, here's what we'd like.

然后呢，你们团队就一起合作，把它做出来了。

And, you know, then you guys, your crew went together and and did it.

我当时就想，哇。

And I was like, wow.

不过我当时就知道了。

I knew though.

我就知道它会很好看。

I knew it was gonna look great.

但我当时就想，肯定会好看的。

But I was just like, it's gonna look good.

对吧？

Right?

你明白吧？

You know?

但结果看起来太棒了。

But it looks so fantastic.

我已经看了上百遍了。

I I've watched it a 100 times.

我根本看不出是哪一帧。

I cannot tell the frame.

你知道吗，在某个时刻，有一帧是特技演员的，然后下一帧，每秒24帧的速度，就是布莱恩了。

You know, there's at a certain point, there's one frame that's the stuntman ad, and then at the next frame, moving 24 frames a second, is is Brian.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我就是看不出来

And I cannot I can't tell

是在哪里切换的。

where it happens.

我完全看不出来。

I cannot tell happens.

我们其实进去，然后，你懂的，把手臂和腿弯起来，让身体对位，

We actually went in there and kind of, you know, bent our arms around and legs and stuff like that to make the bodies line up,

然后我们做了这个，

and we did it

在好几帧里。

over a number frame.

所以呢，

So there

其实没有哪一帧是固定的。

is no one frame.

哦，原来没有哪一帧是固定的。

Oh, there is no one frame.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Gotcha.

不过你和Vince之间有过合作经历吧。

You have you and Vince have a history, though.

比如你们一起在XPOS上工作过。

Like, you were on the XPOS together.

对吧？

Correct?

对。

Yeah.

其实这个已经出来有一段时间了。

It's it's it's it's actually been out there.

我们回头聊聊这个。

Let's back up on it.

是的。

Yes.

跟我们说说

Tell us

这些X档案的事吧。

about these X Files.

这有什么不对吗？

Is it so wrong?

嗯，

Well,

现在是马特了，因为我第一次见到你是在我做《X档案》的时候，你在我之前就已经在那里了。

now it was Matt, because I first met you when I was doing the x files, and you were you were there before I was.

你是视觉特效制片人还是主管。

You were the visual effects producer or supervisor.

对。

Yeah.

官方头衔是什么？

What's the official title?

我老是搞混。

I keep messing around.

嗯，就是制片人兼主管。

Well, it it's it's it's producer and supervisor.

好的。

Okay.

视觉特效制片人兼主管。

Visual effects producer supervisor.

你帮我做的第一件事，是在我的家乡弗吉尼亚州。

And one of the first things you you helped me out in my home state of Virginia.

我记得那件事。

I remember that.

对。

Yes.

我写了一集叫《推手》的剧集。

I wrote an episode called Pusher.

是的。

And Yes.

那是我最早写的几集之一。

And it was one of my first episodes.

剧本里，故事发生在弗吉尼亚州的劳登县，就在华盛顿特区外面。

And in the script, it takes place in Loudoun County, Virginia, which is up just outside of DC.

剧本里拼写是对的，但后来在剧本和拍摄之间，不是对美术部门的同事不敬，但劳登县法院的拼写被他们弄错了，他们少写了一个字母u，这可是个真实的地名。

And it was spelled right in the script, but between the script and the no offense to the wonderful folks in the art department, but the Loudoun County Courthouse was spelled they dropped a u from the spelling of of this real of this very real

法院？

Of courthouse?

对。

Yeah.

是不是

Is it

哦，糟糕。

Oh, boo boo.

对。

Yeah.

是法院。

It's courthose.

法院。

Courthose.

法院。

Courthose.

那不是法院。

It wasn't court.

我本来可以选那个的。

I could've gone with that.

那也挺好的。

That would've been alright.

但我不想在我的家乡丢脸，感谢克里斯·卡特和福克斯让我们花钱去拍。

But I didn't wanna be embarrassed in my home state, and God bless Chris Carter and Fox for letting us spend the money to do it.

然后你把这个巨大的劳顿县，拼写对了。

And you took this this giant Loudoun County and you spelled it correctly.

我到现在都不知道你是怎么做到的，就像变魔术一样。

I don't know still this day how you did it, but it was like a magic trick.

你是用CG做的，对吧？

You did it using CG and I mean, right?

其实，那已经是很久以前的事了，那时候我们还没有现在这么多工具。

It actually I mean, this was long enough ago that we didn't have all the tools that we have now.

对。

Yeah.

但其实做起来并不算太难。

But it it was actually it it wasn't too terribly hard to do.

我们基本上就是……哇。

We basically Wow.

但最酷的是，我记得当时在想，我喜欢这个人，因为你真的很感激。

But what was it was cool about it is like it's like I remember thinking, I like this guy because you were so appreciative.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且说实话，做这件事感觉特别好，因为那并不是一个特别难的技巧。

And and it was like it's like it was so nice to do because it wasn't a terribly difficult trick, I'll be honest with you.

但最棒的是，你当时那种……

But it was like it it was it was so cool that you were

像这样的东西要花多少钱？

What would something like that cost?

我是说，咱们再深入了解一下内幕。

To go I mean I mean, let's let's get behind the curtain again.

我的意思是

I mean

那19.95美元里面可能也包括了这些。

In those $19.95 dollars, might too.

对。

Yeah.

嗯，

Well,

你知道

you know

那花了你多少钱？

what that cost you?

我给你的都是特别优惠。

I make special deals for you like that.

你知道，我记不清了，也不记得花了多长时间。

You know, I I don't remember, and I don't remember how long it took.

但那时候，我们基本上是开进一个海湾，就停在那儿一直修，直到修好为止。

But in those days, we we went into basically a bay and just sat there and worked on it until it went right.

那时候的费用大概是每小时500到600美元吧。

And in those days the cost was somewhere around 500 or $600 an hour think.

那台机器是什么型号？

What was the machine on that?

那是火焰切割机吗？

That was a flame?

对，是火焰切割机。

That was a flame, yeah.

而且火焰切割机现在还在用。

And flames are still in use.

而且我想，我正试着回忆，但我觉得我们是从别的地方偷来的一只母羊。

And I think, I'm trying to remember, but I think we stole a ewe from someplace else.

就是从公司那边，破解了它。

Just of Corporates, cracked it in course.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我

I

不知道我们从哪儿弄来的。

don't know where we got it.

所以大概花了66美元左右？

So it cost about $66 or something?

我，那个，那个，比那少。

I'm I'm it was it was it was less than that.

比那少，因为组装起来很快。

It was less than that because it went together pretty quickly.

但是，你知道，因为这些年工具变得强大太多了，现在你不会花那么多钱去做那个改动。

But, you know, the in because the tools have gotten so much more powerful over the years, you wouldn't pay that now to make that change.

会比那少。

It would be less than that.

但这是给听众描述一下火焰是什么样子的。

But this is described for the folks what a flame look.

基本上就是，如果你看到一个，不知道它是什么，你会以为那是一台电脑。

It's just basically if you were to see one and didn't know what it was, you think it was a computer.

就是电脑。

It's just computer.

就是电脑。

It is a computer.

那当然啦。

Well, duh.