Breaking Bad Insider 413

要足够早，这样才不会显得突然。

Early enough so that it didn't seem like a sudden surprise

没错。

Exactly.

在04/13那集里，哦，现在格斯需要去找T。

In in 04/13 that, oh, now Gus needs to go to T.

O。

O.

不。

No.

这是……这是……

It's it's part of a

对。

Yeah.

你

You

知道。

know.

我们这是在下一盘很大的棋，一盘很长的棋。

We're trying to play a very deep game, a very long game here.

对。

Right.

我们是在

We're trying

下棋。

to play.

而且，而且，而且

And and and

我觉得你们成功了。

And I think you succeeded.

嗯，谢谢。

Well, thank you.

但是回到第八集，我们想，我们想每个人都有自己的弱点。

I I but going back to episode eight, we wanted we wanted everyone has a chink in their armor.

每个人都有，就像每条链子都有薄弱的一环。

Everyone has a there's a loose there's a there's a weak link in every chain.

而古斯，尽管他那么聪明，也有一个弱点，那就是他对赫克托·萨拉曼卡，也就是蒂奥，有着极度的仇恨，因为二十年前，是他开枪打死了古斯最好的朋友，也许比最好的朋友还要亲密的人。

And and Gus, as smart as he is, has one weakness, and that is his extreme hatred for for Hector Salamanca, Tio, who is is the person who shot his his best friend, his maybe more than best friend in in the head way back when twenty years ago.

这就是他的弱点，而这一集里就发生了这件事。

And that's his that's his and that happens in this episode.

泰勒斯说，也许这件事该由我来做。

Tyrus says, maybe I should do this.

你知道，在进入第三幕的时候。

You know, in the going into the third act here.

对。

Right.

在这一集里，泰勒斯说，也许这件事该由我来做。

In this episode, Tyra says, maybe I should do this.

对。

Right.

然后古斯说，我来做。

And and Gus says, I do this.

对。

Right.

换句话说，我要杀了T。

In other words, I'm gonna kill T.

O。

O.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者没人能杀他。

Or no one is.

我是那个结束他生命的人，因为我太恨他了。

I'm the one who who who who ends this person's life because I hate him so much.

对。

Right.

而且我等这一天已经等了很久了。

And I've been waiting for this day for a long time.

我之前没动手的唯一原因，就是我想让他尽可能久地在我手里受苦。

And the only reason I didn't do it before now is because I I'd rather him suffer at my hands for as long as he possibly can.

但直到那两个疯狂又吓人的表兄弟都死了，我才能让他受苦。

But I wasn't able to make him suffer until the two insane, scary cousins were both dead.

这就是为什么会有2008年3月和4月的闪回。

That's why that's why the flashback to to 03/2008 and 04/2008.

你知道，在那两个疯子终结者表兄弟都死之前，我根本没能力折磨这个老混蛋。

You know, I I I didn't have the I didn't I didn't have the ability to torture this old bastard until these two lunatic Terminator cousins were both dead.

你明白吗？

You know?

还有之前的图科。

And and Tuco before that.

哇。

Wow.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以呢。

So

嗯，我只是觉得你们做的事情简直太棒了。

Well, it's just I think that what you guys have done is just incredibly brilliant.

而且，我是说，这真的很有趣，不是说好笑的那种有趣，而是从04年12月开始的。

And, I mean, it's so funny because mean, not funny funny, but it started in in 04/12.

而且，几周前我和布莱恩聊天的时候，我告诉他我觉得那一幕太厉害了，就是04年12月的那一幕，汤姆你写的那场戏，沃尔特向杰西解释那些事情，你知道的，我为什么要这么做？

And I've when I talked to Brian a couple weeks ago, I was, like, telling him how amazing I just thought it was, that scene in four twelve when, you know, the scene that you wrote, Tom, the scene where Walt is explaining all that stuff to Jesse, you know, why would I do this?

我怎么能这么做？

How could I do this?

而布莱恩实际上要扮演一个确实知道这一切的人。

And Brian is actually having to play a guy who does know all of this.

我是说，他得演那个……对。

I mean, he's having to play Yeah.

一个一方面试图说服杰西，但心里清楚这一切都是骗局的人。

A guy who is trying to convince Jesse on one hand, but knowing that all of this is, you know, a ruse.

这一切都是，你知道的，胡扯。

This is all, you know, bull

他是个

He's a

完美的骗子。

perfect liar.

我是说，他已经成长为一个……我是说，他现在在多个层面上运作，真是吓人。

I mean, he's he's grown into I mean, he's working on so many levels now that it's scary.

对。

Yeah.

而且，我是说，上周的播客里，我们没法聊……我们可以聊那个场景，从一个层面去聊，但现在我们知道了实际发生的事情，它的复杂性就完全不一样了。

And I mean, even last week with podcast last week, we could not talk we could talk about the scene and talk about it on one level but just the complexity of it on now that we know what actually happened on this level.

对，

Yeah,

是的。

yeah.

有趣的是，我之前提到过，你现在已经杀了古斯和泰勒斯，但迈克还在。

The interesting too, I know I brought up earlier that now you've you've killed Gus and you killed Tyrus, but Mike is still left.

迈克还在，还在恢复中，在

Mike's still Mike's still recuperating down

墨西哥。

in Mexico.

墨西哥，这挺有意思的，因为现在大家都知道我们有第五季，也是最后一季。

Mexico, which is kind of interesting seeing as how, you know, now everybody knows we have a fifth and final season.

但我觉得有

But I think there

一句台词。

was a line.

我其实构思过一句台词。

I had actually pitched a line.

不过这句没写进04/13那集的剧本里。

It it didn't get in the script for 04/13.

但在杰西和沃尔特最后对质那场戏里，我本来想让杰西说一句：‘迈克肯定气炸了。’

But when Jesse and Walter debriefing at the end, I I had wanted Jeff Jesse to say, Mike's gonna be pissed.

主要是想提醒观众，外面还有麻烦等着我们去收拾呢。

Just so we're aware that something is still out there that we have to deal with.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

不过我觉得挺棒的。

I think it's great, though.

我觉得你们留下了一些东西，这真的很棒，你知道，一点点

I think it's it's wonderful that you guys have left, you know, something, you know, it's a little bit of

好吧，希望这不用说也知道。

Well, hope it goes without sexual.

对。

Yeah.

好吧，我希望不用说也知道，吉安卡洛·埃斯波西托对这个系列的贡献太出色了。

Well, I hope it goes without saying that that we didn't Giancarlo Esposito has been such a magnificent addition to this series.

实际上，我把他拉到一边。

And actually, I took him aside.

我当时在阿尔伯克基，正准备拍第八集还是第九集什么的。

I was at in Albuquerque, and we were prepping to do episode eight or nine or something.

我不记得具体是什么时候了。

I don't know when it was.

那是在外地。

It was away.

那是在我们把他角色写死的好几个月之前。

It was months or months before we killed off his character.

我把他叫进我的办公室，就我们两个人，我跟他说，我得告诉你接下来会发生什么。

And I and I took him into my office, just the two of us, and I said, I gotta tell you what's coming.

我当时感觉就像是在宣布什么天大的坏消息一样。

And and I I was like I was just like I was was I was like I was given some of the world's worst news.

我是说，对我来说，不是对他，对我来说，我特别难以启齿地告诉他我们要把他的角色写死。

I mean, for for my end, not for his end, but for my end, I I felt so tongue tied telling him we're gonna kill off his character.

我觉得很内疚。

I felt guilty.

我觉得很羞愧。

I felt, like, ashamed.

但他真的是这部剧里非常出色的一个角色。

But it's a we he has been such a magnificent addition to the show.

别来

Don't comes

在第五季里出现了。

out in season five.

他们保住了Gus的大脑，正在打造

They saved Gus' brain, they're building

一个全新的

a new

一个全新的机器人Gus。

an all new robot Gus.

他真的没死。

He's really not dead.

对。

No.

就像终结者一样。

It's like the Terminator.

但就像是，

But it's like,

你知道，我所有的灵感都来自史上最伟大的电影《高地人》。

you know, I I take all the all my cues from the greatest movie ever made, Highlander.

只能有一个。

There there there can be only one.

所以呢。

So

嗯，你知道吗？

Well, you know what?

既然我们已经聊了这季的大结局，那我们就回到开头附近聊聊吧。

Let's since we've we've kinda talked about the whole, I guess, the whole big, you know, clincher for the season, Let's go back and talk sort of near the beginning.

你今年真的让你妈妈出演了这部剧。

You actually put your mom in the show this year.

我妈妈在这一集里演了格斯。

My mom played Gus in this episode.

她做得非常棒。

She did a fantastic job.

有几场戏。

Couple of scenes.

我妈妈是住在沃尔特隔壁的那位好心女士，沃尔特毫不客气地让她陷入危险。

My mom is a is is the the nice lady who lives next door to Walt who Walt shamelessly endangers.

她演的是贝基，顺便说一句，贝基·西蒙斯。

She plays Becky and Becky Simmons by the way.

她的名字是里士满弗吉尼亚的一位很棒女士。

That her name is a wonderful lady back in Richmond, Virginia.

我提到了贝基，贝基是我女朋友霍莉的好朋友。

I gave a shout out to Becky's Becky's a good friend of my girlfriend, Holly.

我和她也是朋友，贝基和她丈夫库尔特，还有斯蒂芬妮·多斯韦尔，另一个朋友，她也是……

And and I'm friends with her too, Becky and her husband, Kurt, and also Stephanie Doswell, another friend who's

哦，她出现在……

Oh, she's on

在早前的一集里提到了她的名字。

the Put her name in earlier episode.

她就是那个房产中介，

She was the realtor who

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

玛丽就是从她那儿偷了那个纪念勺子的。

Who Marie stole the spoon, the memorial spoon, commemorative spoon from.

然后还有霍莉，我现在得把她们三个都提一下。

And then then Holly, I got to give shout out to all three of them now.

还有霍莉的朋友安妮塔，她的姓是厄门特劳特，说起来话长。

And then Holly's friend Anita, who's who's last name Ermentrout or her it's a long story.

但她的姓厄门特劳特，我们留给迈克当姓用了。

But her name Ermentrout is we reserve for Mike's last name.

你看到她的姓出现在……我得向这三位女士都致敬一下。

You see her last name on the I had to give a shout out to all three of these ladies.

迈克的姓氏在剧中一闪而过，直到第11集我们才第一次听到。

Mike's last name is seen in passing, as we've never heard it before until episode 11.

对。

Yeah.

但是当我们看到那些血袋的时候，对吧。

But when when we see the bags of blood Right.

在战地医院下面，那个在墨西哥的小型单人战地医院。

Down in the MASH, the little one man MASH hospital down in Mexico.

但我妈妈，盖尔·吉利根，就在那个场景里。

But my mom, Gail Gilligan, is in that scene.

不幸的是，这一集首次播出时会有我妈妈，但之后的每一集都不会有她了。

And the unfortunate thing is the first airing of this episode will have my mom in it, and all subsequent episodes will not have my mom in it.

但DVD上会有。

But it'll be on the DVD.

对。

Yeah.

我不是在开玩笑。

And I'm not kidding.

这一集超时了三分十四秒。

This episode was three minutes and fourteen seconds over long.

没错。

Yep.

而Skip，他剪辑得非常好，一如既往。

And Skip, who did a hell of a job, as always, editing it.

谢谢。

Thank you.

对我来说，剪掉那些内容真的很难受，尤其是最后那部分，把所有超时的部分剪掉很痛苦，但最后三分钟左右真是煎熬。

We were it was miserably hard for me personally to cut out to cut out the the last cut getting all the time out was painful, but the last three minutes or so was miserable.

最后我们终于意识到，最好的办法就是把沃尔特打电话给邻居太太、让她去查看那个地方的那场戏整个拿掉。

And it finally dawned on us that the best thing to do is to lift out the scene of Walt calling up the neighbor lady, getting her to go check out the place.

所以之后的播出，我们得播两次。

So in subsequent airings, we have to air it two time.

所以希望第一次播出的时候大家能看到我妈妈，因为之后的播出会把那个场景剪掉。

So hopefully, everyone will see the first airing with my mom because that scene will be lifted out in subsequent airings.

不过那个场景的完整版会永久收录在DVD里。

But it will then again be permanently available on the DVD in its longer form.

我也想问你一下，你知道，你妈妈进了房子，然后那些人从后院出来，然后沃尔特进去，他爬过那个狭小空间，然后还得翻过栅栏之类的。

Let me ask you this too because, you know, your mom goes in the house and then the guys come out of the backyard and then Walt goes in and he's going through the crawl space and then he has to jump the fence and stuff like that.

那布莱恩的特技部分呢？

What what about Brian's stunt work?

我是说，这是布莱恩本人做的吗，还是全都是布莱恩？

I mean, did is this Brian or did he do all Brian.

他很棒。

He's great.

他就是，对，他就是。

He's just he's yeah.

他很能打。

He's tough.

他跳过了栅栏什么的吗？

Did he jump the fence and everything?

那就是他本人。

That was him.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

他那些艾美奖是实至名归的。

He earns those Emmys.

对。

Yeah.

确实。

He does.

他

He

他把那堆东西放在另一边，那些尖尖的带翅膀的，然后

had the pile on the other side when they're pointy with the wings when

他落在了上面。

he landed on them.

那很疼。

That hurts.

就是故意给自己增加难度。

Just just to make things tougher on himself.

他是个方法派演员。

He's a method actor.

现在他，他让他说说那个镜头，是怎么拍的。

Now he's he's tell him about that shot, the way that works.

对，那个镜头就是

Yeah, well the shot when

布莱恩从房子底下爬出来，跑过去跳过栅栏，我们其实用了两个不同的镜头。

Brian crawls out from under the house and runs and jumps over the fence, we've actually used two different takes.

哦

Oh

哇。

wow.

因为那个他有点翻过墙的镜头，他花了好长时间，钱也掉了，花了

Because the take where he kind of just falls over the wall, it took him, he dropped the money, it took

他好长时间才到

him a long time to get to

终点。

the end.

所以我们把第二个镜头和第一个镜头合在一起了。

So we took the second take and the first one and combined them together.

不错。

Cool.

而且我们真的很幸运，因为我不知道他是怎么做到的，但他踩点几乎完美。

And we got really lucky because I don't know how he does it, but he hits the footsteps almost perfectly.

但后来安德鲁和黛安得进去帮我们做点清理工作。

But then Andrew and Diane had to go in and do a little cleanup work for us.

对。

Yeah.

然后我们把那个镜头拿去做视觉效果，把两者结合起来。

Then we we take that shot and work with with visual effects, and we kinda marry them both.

他们得一帧一帧地进去，把一些东西抹掉，你知道的，再加点东西，这样镜头就完美了。

And they have to go in frame by frame and kind of paint some things out, you know, kind of add some things just so it is the perfect lens.

确实感觉像是一个连续的长镜头。

It does feel like one continuous shot.

你们为什么要这么做？

Why did you have to do it?

因为我们喜欢另一个镜头里他翻墙的方式。

Because we like the way he went over the wall in the in the other take.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

也就是说，我们其实不用这么做，但我们喜欢那个开头。

We in other words, we didn't have to do it, but but we we we liked we liked the beginning.

这就是我们说的一个完整不间断的镜头，只不过通过剪辑的魔法，它并不是真的那样。对吧。

This is a water, what we call is all in one uninterrupted take except it's not through the magic of editing Right.

还有后期制作和视觉特效的魔法。

And through the magic of post production visual effects.

看起来像是一个镜头，但我们喜欢一个镜头的开头，喜欢另一个镜头的结尾。

It looks like one take, but we like the beginning of one take and we like the end of the other take.

不错。

Cool.

所以我就得到了我想要的。

So I gets what I want.

我并不是总能如愿，但能如愿的时候感觉真好。

I don't always, but but it's nice when I do.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我觉得我们以前从来没聊过这个。

I don't think we've ever talked about it before.

我们来聊聊弗朗西斯卡吧。

Let's talk a little bit about Francesca.

弗朗西斯卡在这部片子里有一场很棒的戏。

Francesca has a great scene in this.

对。

Yeah.

蒂娜。

Tina.

对。

Yeah.

她太棒了。

She's awesome.

她真的非常搞笑。

She's really, really funny.

对。

Yeah.

但她其实有很多戏份是在一个敲诈保险库里。

But she actually has a lot to do where she's in a blackmail vault.

你知道吗？

You know?

这扇门要两万美元。

This door costs $20,000.

对。

Yeah.

我当时觉得，那挺好的。

I was like, that's great.

你能聊聊演弗朗西斯卡的那个演员吗？

Can you talk a little bit about the actress that plays Francesca?

蒂娜·蒂娜·帕克。

Tina Tina Parker.

蒂娜·帕克，来自得克萨斯。

Tina Parker from Texas.

她是来自

Is she from

是阿尔伯克基吗？

is it Albuquerque?

她从得克萨斯来。

She comes in from Texas.

对。

Yeah.

我想她是从得克萨斯来的。

I think she comes in from Texas.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

她是我们通过本地选角导演凯拉·雷找到的。

She's somebody we found through Keira Rai, our local casting director.

那部分挺难的，因为我觉得文斯和编剧们对索尔会不恰当地迷恋的那个人有非常具体的设想，但她不会是那种传统的、你知道的，海报女郎。

And that was a hard part because I think Vince and the writers had a very specific vision in mind for somebody that Sol would be sort of inappropriately lusting after, but that wouldn't be your traditional, you know, poster girl.

她，你知道，我觉得他们希望她真的有一种非常独特的外形，而且还要有态度，我记得那个选角过程，文斯大概看了，我想，差不多20个不同的试镜片段。

She, you know, I think they wanted her to, you know, really be a very specific look and have an attitude too, and that was I remember that casting process where Vince looked at maybe, I think, like 20 different takes.

而且还有，他，他就，他看了20个不同的女演员？

And there was and and he and he just he kept 20 different actresses?

不同的，不同的，抱歉。

Different different I'm sorry.

对。

Yeah.

凯拉给他准备的不同女演员的试镜录像。

Different actresses on tape that Keira had for him.

但就是，我们就是没找到合适的。

And it just we we didn't quite get there.

凯拉说，你知道吗？

And Keira said, you know what?

我这儿有一个人，我特别欣赏她作为演员，但我觉得她不是那种传统意义上丰满性感的秘书类型，不过你为什么不看看呢？

I have one person I was I I I love her as an actress, but, like, I she just she I wasn't she's not, again, like, the traditional down the middle voluptuous girl secretary type, but why don't you take a look?

我一直没把她推出来，但她身上有种特别的东西。

I've been holding her back, but there's something about her.

文斯一看她，就说，这正是我心目中的人选。

And Vince looked at her and he's like, that's exactly who I had in mind.

显然，文斯后来一直把她带回来。

And and Vince keeps bringing her back, obviously.

你知道，当演员来了之后，编剧们就会为他们写角色，想办法把他们融入故事里。

You know, when when actors come through, they get written to and the writers, you know, find ways to bring them into the story.

而这场戏对她来说非常重要。

And this was a huge scene for her.

你知道吗，奇怪的是，我在这集里从没指导过她。

You know, the weird thing is I had never met directed her in this episode.

哦，没关系。

Oh, that's alright.

她很可爱。

She's lovely.

因为这正好说明，是的。

Because I it just shows how yeah.

她真的很可爱。

She is lovely.

而且我很喜欢蒂娜。

And I I love Tina.

这也正好说明，遗憾的是，你们拍摄的时候我很少能在现场。

And it just it shows how, sadly, how how rare it is for me to be out there when you guys are shooting.

我通常都在伯班克这边。

I'm usually back here in Burbank.

但汤姆，还有所有编剧，我觉得我们都喜欢蒂娜。

And but Tom, all the writers, I think, we all love Tina.

我们都喜欢弗朗西斯卡。

We all love Francesca.

我们一直让她出演各种角色。

We keep we keep putting her in stuff.

这次让她在这里有一场自己的大戏，感觉很有意思。

It was fun letting her have a big scene big scene of her own here.

对。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

那确实很有趣。

That was fun.

我想快速提一下那张照片，图科，我是说，蒂奥的家人照片，他抱着那两个表兄弟，对。

I wanted to mention real quick the the photograph of Tuco's I mean, excuse me, of Tio's family where he's got he's got the two cousins Yeah.

你知道，他怀里抱着他们，那张照片很棒，但那个小男孩，我猜是演图科的，那是谁家的孩子？

You know, in his arms, and he's got that great that's a great photo, but that little boy who I'm assuming is playing Tuco, whose kids are these?

这张照片是谁拍的？

Who took this photo?

我们

We

是通过凯瑟琳的群演选角找到他们的。

found them through Extra's Casting through Catherine.

他们带来了一群孩子。

And they brought in a bunch of kids.

对，就是图科和那两个表兄弟。

And yeah, it's Tuco and the cousins.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这是年轻的图科。

So It's young young Tuco.

不过，照片是他拍的。

Took the photo, though.

乌苏拉·科约特。

Ursula Coyote.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

她确实有，我记得没错的话，照片里有图科，他正对着镜头皱眉呢。

She has because I think, if I remember correctly, you got Tuco and he's got scowling to the camera.

这张照片拍得真棒。

It's a great photo.

那张照片是文斯指导拍摄的。

Vince directed that photo session.

哦，是你拍的吗？

Oh, you did?

我确实当时在场。

I did happen to be there.

我们都在那儿，那是第八集还是第十集来着？

We were there and it was was that episode eight or episode 10?

那是在拍摄期间

It was during

你当时没有执导。

the You weren't directing.

没错。

That's right.

因为当时米歇尔没有执导。

Because you were Michelle was not directing.

她在帮我弄照片。

She was helping me with the photo.

而乌苏拉在拍照。

And Ursula was taking the pictures.

所以那是在第八集拍摄期间，我们第一次见到唐纳尔·阿迪奥。

And so it was during the during the shooting of episode eight when we first meet Donnell Adio.

当时蒂奥还化着闪回戏的妆。

When Tio's in his flashback makeup.

当然。

Of course.

当然。

Of course.

对。

Yeah.

当然，是第八集，因为Tio不在。

Of course, it was eight because Tio's not in.

显然不在。

Obviously not in.

对。

Yeah.

所以是的。

So yeah.

所以马克·马戈利斯，饰演Tio的，当时化着闪回里年轻时的妆。

So so Mark Margolis, plays Tio, was in his flashback younger makeup.

我们给他换了件衬衫，然后在那个户外区域的一个角落里拍的，离你在那些场景里看到的游泳池不到十英尺。

And we we put a different shirt on him, and we shot it in a corner of that of that outdoor area within 10 feet of the pool that you see in in all those scenes.

我们找了两个小男孩，两个非常可爱的双胞胎小男孩来演那两个表兄弟。

And we had two little boys, two very cute little twin boys who played the cousins.

嗯。

Mhmm.

两个小宝宝，像小宝宝那样哭闹了一会儿，但他们表现得非常好。

Two little babies who were crying and carrying on a little bit as little babies do, but they were they were perfect.

然后那个稍微大一点的男孩演图科，抱歉。

And then the the the slightly older boy who plays Tuco, and I'm sorry.

我道歉。

I apologize.

我记不起他的名字了，但他是个不错的小演员，因为一开始我在拍照，也在指导他。

I can't remember his name, but he was a good little actor because I was as first of I was snapping the pictures, I was kinda directing him.

我就说，我就说，表情凶一点，凶一点。

I was like I was like, look look mean.

好的。

Okay.

表情凶一点。

Look mean.

皱眉头。

To to frown.

再皱一点眉头。

Frown a little bit more.

他做得非常好。

He did a great job.

他是最可爱的小男孩。

He was the sweetest little boy.

可爱

Sweet

的小男孩。

little boy.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得他的弟弟想当演员。

His I think his little brother wants to be an actor.

哦，

Oh,

好的。

okay.

但他被选中拍这张照片。

But he got picked to be in this photo.

家里有点小摩擦。

It was a little family friction.

马克当时，你知道，明显进入了角色，扮演赫克托，也就是T。

And Mark was, you know, obviously in character as as Hector, as T.

O。

O.

而且，你知道，所以那挺有意思的。

And, you know, the so it was fun.

挺有意思的，确实挺有意思的。

It was fun to it was fun to yeah.

那真是太酷了。

It's totally cool.

我，我那次还停下来DVD播放器，倒回去重看了一遍。

I I that was one where I stopped my DVD player and I had to roll back.

天哪。

Oh my god.

太可爱了。

That's so cute.

对。

Yeah.

那真是非常

It was very

真可爱。

cute.

对。

Yeah.

我想问问你关于字母网格的事，就是提奥的字母网格，那是从哪儿来的？

Me ask you about the letter grid, Tio's letter grid, where that comes from.

还有，我得说提奥的护士真的太棒了。

And also, I gotta say that Tio's nurse was incredible.

她是不是很棒？

Wasn't she great?

迈拉。

Myra.

她真的很有趣。

She was really fun.

迈拉，她演的那个角色，直到我们选她之前我都没意识到，不过我觉得这挺有意思的。

Myra who plays I didn't realize until we cast her, although I think this is fun.

我觉得这个细节挺有意思的。

I think this is a neat detail.

不过迈拉在《广告狂人》里演的是伊丽莎白·莫斯的妈妈。

But Myra plays Elizabeth Moss's mom on Mad Men.

我们都很喜欢伊丽莎白。

And we love Elizabeth.

她人特别好，演技也很棒，而且《广告狂人》这部剧真的很精彩。

She's she's such a sweetie and such a fine actress and a great show, Mad Men.

对，迈拉演的是丽兹的妈妈，在那部剧里表现得非常出色。

And, yeah, Myra plays Lizzie's mom and is great on that show.

其实我确实在剧里见过她很多次。

And I didn't really and I've certainly seen her many times on the show.

她出演的每一集我都看过。

I've seen every episode she was in.

《广告狂人》的每一集我都看过。

I've seen every episode of Mad Men.

但我没认出是她。

But I didn't realize it was her.

她为我们穿了一身红来，而且她真的特别特别搞笑。

And she came in red for us, and she was just really, really funny.

所以当那个网格出现的时候，因为我们在制作这些剧集的时候挺搞笑的，我其实从来没看过第13集。

So when that grid because it was funny when when we were working on the episodes, I never really I never saw 13.

事实上，我觉得我连第13集的任何样片都没看过。

In fact, I don't think I've ever even saw any dailies from 13.

因为Skip和我太忙了，我一直听到这些字母，我还以为是个通灵板。

Because Skip and I were so busy that I just kept hearing these letters, and I kept I thought it was a Ouija board.

我记不住。

I couldn't remember.

所以昨晚我看那集的时候，我才恍然大悟，哦，原来是这样。

And so last night when I was watching the episode, I was like, oh, that's what that is.

就像，A，排，A，A，B，C。

And it's like, a, row a, a, b, c.

所以那是个真实存在的东西，而且确实没问题。

So is that a real thing that actually is okay.

那块板子是我们道具部门专门做的。

Our prop department made that specific board.

对。

Mhmm.

我不知道，我想那个板子可能有个名字。

I I don't know if I guess there's a name for the what the board is.

我的意思是，我觉得它应该叫沟通板。

I mean, it's a communication board, I guess.

我想剧本里就是这么叫的。

I think it's what we call it in the script.

但我不确定有没有人批量生产这种东西。

But I mean, they don't I don't know that anybody mass markets them.

也许有，但肯定不是那种透明塑料的。

Maybe they do, but but not a clear plastic one.

我当时想能透过它来拍摄。

I wanted to be able to shoot through it.

好的。

Okay.

因为我看到了很多明显的拍摄机会，你知道，透过它可以看到T。

Because I because I saw a lot of obvious opportunities to shoot, you know, through it to see T.

O。

O.

或者看到那个包，看到Myra，你知道，所以我们的道具组就做了这个。

Or to see the purse to see Myra, you know, and and so our guys created it.

但这就是它的布局，实际上，这是正确的布局，你知道，老天保佑那些……

But that is the layout of it, in fact, is the correct layout for that's you know, God bless folks who

对。

Yeah.

那是他们唯一的交流方式。

That's the way that that's their sole way of communicating.

不管他们是眨眼睛还是敲铃铛，还是别的什么方式。

Whether they can blink their eye or or ding a bell or or or or whatever.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

我当时也笑得不行，因为你说，你是不是要拉臭臭？

I also was laughing my butt off because you were like, do you have to make poopy?

你是不是

Do you

要拉臭臭？

have a poopy?

我当时就想，你是在开玩笑吧。

I was like, you've got to be kidding.

在

In

那一刻作为观众，虽然讨厌Teo，但你真的有点为他感到难过。

that moment as an audience member, like, hate Teo, but you actually kinda feel bad about

对。

it.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

而且，这有一部分是设计使然。你知道，你得真的恨一个人，才会为了干掉他而把自己炸了。

And and and part of it by design is is it it, you know, you gotta really hate someone to blow yourself up just in order to get them.

对。

Yeah.

但另一部分是为了展现，他的世界就是那样，对这个人来说，选择离开也许不是最糟的结局。

But part of it is, you know, to show that his world is such that for this particular guy checking out is maybe not the worst the worst thing conceivable.

你知道，就像他……

You know, like He

能把这个混蛋一起带走。

can take this motherfucker with it.

如果他能把他最恨的敌人一起带走的话。

If he can take his most most hated enemy with him.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好吧，你知道的，我想现在是跟比尔聊聊假肢以及制作格斯那个头部所涉及的一切的好时机。

Well, you know, it's I guess it's a great time to get to talk to Bill about the prosthetics and everything that was involved in getting, you know, this head of Gus's.

对了，这集的标题是什么？

Well, let's by the way, what's the title of the episode?

我不知道。

I don't know.

《面具对决》（Face Off）。

Face Off.

哦，就这样吗？

Oh, is that it?

对。

Yes.

哦，那太好了。

Oh, that's great.

你们是什么时候决定这么做的？

When did you guys decide this?

这大概是在，

This must have been, like,

最后一小时。

the last hour.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

就像上周晚些时候。

Like like a few like late last week.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

哦，我完全不知道。

Oh, I had no idea.

哦，那你不会发布它了。

Oh, so you're not gonna release it, though.

你是重新发布了，还是已经发布了？

Are you gonna re did you release it?

还是？

Or?

是的。

Yes.

我的意思是，正在收听和观看这个节目的人会知道它的标题是

I mean, the folks the folks listening and watching this will know that it's titled

《变脸》之前，哇。

Face Off before Wow.

对。

Yeah.

因为我就是喜欢尼古拉斯·凯奇。

Because I just I love Nic Cage.

我能说什么呢？

What can I say?

还有他的电影。

And his movies.

不。

No.

这个标题太棒了。

This is that's a great title.

我喜欢。

I love it.

太棒了。

That's fantastic.

这个标题是我们想到的。

That that title came to us.

苏珊·戈德堡，AMC的一位高管。

Susan Goldberg, one of our executives at AMC.

她的正式头衔是什么？

What's her official title?

她觉得自己是AMC的制作副总裁。

She thinks she's vice president of production at AMC.

她是个很有意思的人。

And she is a character.

她很可爱。

She's a cutie.

她人很温柔。

She's very sweet.

她真的应该有自己的脱口秀节目。

And she really should have her own talk show.

她特别搞笑。

She was really funny.

因为这个名字是她想出来的。

Because she came up with the name.

但我觉得她对我们使用这个名字有点惊讶和失望。

But I think she's a little surprised and dismayed that we're using

我觉得她是在跟你开玩笑，想逗你玩呢。

I think she was doing it with a little I think she was trying to have a little fun with you.

但你让她见识到了。

But you showed her.

我让她见识到了。

I showed her.

不过，我想问你一个问题，因为……

Well, let me ask you this, though, because

那我们聊聊《Face Off》受到的影响吧。

Well, let's talk about how the Face Off was was affected.

因为，比尔，是你做的假体还是……不。

Because, Bill, did you you do you do the prosthetics or did No.

不。

No.

那是尼克·尼卡特拉吗？

That was that was Nick Nikatera?

你是在

You were

跟格雷格说话。

talking Greg.

对。

Yeah.

请继续。

Go ahead.

所以这需要制作和后期制作的大量努力，他们请来了比尔负责视觉效果，还有其他部门。

So it I this is a, you know, a big effort with production and post production who brought in, you know, Bill on the visual effects side and departments.

还有K和B，格雷格·尼科特罗和霍华德·伯杰。

And K and B, Greg Nicotero and Howard Berger.

那些人就是为《广告狂人》做特效的。

And those are the guys that do the stuff for Mad Men.

我是说，抱歉，不是《广告狂人》，是《行尸走肉》。

I mean, sorry, not Mad Men, but Dead.

《行尸走肉》。

Dead.

还有谁为我们做了第一集，就是割喉咙那场戏，还有第四集里耳朵那场戏。

And who did episode one for us, the slitting of the throat, who did the ear in episode four.

迈克的耳朵差点被射掉，或者耳朵尖儿。

Mike's ear would've got shot off or the tip of it.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以这绝对是团队合作的成果。

So this was it was absolutely a a group effort.

但我们确实很早就把Michelle、Stu和我，还有所有人都拉上了电话，一起讨论Vince对这场戏的构想，以及我们怎么才能实现那个构想。

But we we got every Michelle and Stu and I got everybody on the phone early on to talk about Vince's vision for the scene and how we might achieve that vision.

对。

Yeah.

因为那是在项目早期。

Because that was early in the game.

对吧？

Right?

那真的是非常非常早的时候。

That was really, really early.

这背后是几个月的努力。

This is there's months of of of effort went into this.

回到

Back in

一月，我想。

January, I think.

对。

Right.

而且我们——那是在一月份你第一次听说的吧？

And we there was it was back in January you first heard about it?

是的。

Yeah.

那时候你刚进来，说你想和某个人对决。

That's when you just came in and you said that you wanted to Face Off Somebody.

对。

Yes.

但你当时不肯

But you wouldn't

说是谁，你只是想让我想想怎么实现。

explain who it was and you just wanted me to think about how to pull that off.

而且那时候，你还是很明确地想要一镜到底。

And at that time, you were still clear that you wanted it to be in one shot.

是的。

Yes.

不切换镜头。

Without cutting away.

而且你想让摄像机转一圈。

And you wanted to have the camera swing around.

对。

Yeah.

把麦克风拉上来。

Pull the mic up.

你在一月份的时候似乎就已经很清楚自己想要什么了。

You seem to have the vision for exactly what you wanted back in January.

当时只需要弄清楚需要多少时间。

And it was just about figuring out that much time to

没错。

Right.

想办法把那个效果做出来。

Figure out to do the effect.

然后我们终于在六月拍到了支持这个效果的真实素材，就是你六月做的那个。

And we finally shot the actual footage that supported it that you worked upon in June.

所以，是的，那真是挺久的。

So, yeah, there there was quite a gosh.

我都没意识到我那么早就跟你聊过这件事了。

I didn't realize it was that early that I was talking to you about it.

对。

Yeah.

我们很幸运，这个节目整体上都很受眷顾，希望以后也一直如此，我们有足够的时间去做我们想做的那些事情，因为，是的。

It was we luckily, we were blessed on this show in general that and may it always be thus that we have had the lead time we've needed to do the kind of things that we do because yeah.

因为我一直希望这能成为一个奇迹。

Because I always did want this to be a wonder.

换句话说，就像你在这一集里看到的，砰的一声，门被炸飞了，那是一个惊人的爆炸效果，是特效工作的绝佳例子，不是视觉特效，是实景特效。

In other words, as you see in the episode, boom, the door blows off in an amazing explosion, amazing example of special effects work, not visual effects Practical visual.

实景特效。

Practical special effects.

没错。

Exactly.

维尔纳和他的团队，这到底是怎么回事？

Werner and his crew what the hell's wrong with it?

维尔纳的全名是什么？

What's Werner's last name?

海因莱因。

Heinlein.

维尔纳·海因莱因。

Werner Heinlein.

他是个很棒的人，他的团队也很出色。

He's a great guy and his crew.

那扇门是通过实际特效被炸飞的，用了一堆空气炮，还有装满压缩空气——其实是压缩氮气——的气罐。

That door gets blown off its hinges as a practical effect with a bunch of air mortars, a bunch of tanks filled with compressed air at very actually compressed nitrogen.

如果用压缩空气的话，快速泄压时会看到气体留下的痕迹。

Compressed air would have shown trails of gas as it rapidly depressurized.

我想，可能会形成小小的冰晶，然后你会看到巨大的白色烟雾喷出来。

It would have, I guess, little air crystals little ice crystals would have formed and you would have seen big enormous jets of white smoke.

所以他们只能用氮气。

So they had to use nitrogen.

他们必须用纯氮气，装在这些巨大的储气罐里，里面充满高压气体，也就是氮气。

They had to fill pure nitrogen they had to use in these enormous dump tanks filled with highly compressed gas, nitrogen.

然后他们用快速泄压阀，这些阀门由电磁线圈控制，瞬间完全打开。

And then they have these rapid dump valves that kick wide open instantly, and they're kicked open by these electrical solenoids.

而且他们用这种非常高的压力，如果你站在前面，会被杀死的。

And they use this very high if you stood in front of it, it would have killed you.

他们用纯压缩气体的释放，而不是火药爆炸，把门从铰链上吹掉。

And they blow the door off its hinges with with no gunpowder explosion, but just with pure release of of compressed gas.

然后门就飞出去了。

And that comes off.