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Hello, and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast.
我们讨论NBA，今天下午我们就聊这个。
We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Tuesday afternoon.
现在连线的是来自Xfinity Mobile体育馆的嘉宾，我想是这么叫的。
Joining us from the Xfinity Mobile Arena, I think it's called.
我只是记不太清了。
I just don't remember.
我不是在开玩笑。
I'm not trying to be flippant.
在费城，他将观看76人队周二晚上对阵菲尼克斯太阳队的比赛，他就是蒂姆·邦坦。
In Philadelphia, where he's gonna watch the 76ers play the Phoenix Suns on Tuesday night is Tim Buntemps.
大家好。
Hello, everybody.
对。
Yes.
两支球队与一年前的状态截然不同。
A battle of two teams that are in wildly different places than they were a year ago.
而且现在都比以前更开心了。
Both much happier.
而且和我们赛季初预期的情况也大不相同。我记得季前赛时，我在中东见过德里尔·莫雷。
And in different places than they were when we thought they were at the start of the season where we were both kind of I mean, I remember when I was in the preseason, I saw Daryl Morey over in The Middle East.
我当时说：天啊，真遗憾你的阵容这么混乱，你知道的，因为有这么多伤病。
And I was like, Man, I'm really sorry that your roster is so messed up, you know, because I had all these injuries and stuff.
他却说：其实，我想说真话。
He's like, well, we're trying actually, do want the truth.
我说：真抱歉你的伤病情况这么糟糕。
I said, I'm sorry that your injury situation is so bleeped up.
他说：我们正在努力把它解决掉。
And he said, well, we're working very hard to un bleep it.
现在确实已经解决了。
And it's been un bleeped.
太阳队也是。
And the Suns as well.
来自德克萨斯州达拉斯的本·麦马洪加入了我们。
Joining us from Dallas, Texas is Ben McMahon.
你好啊，伙伴们。
Howdy, partners.
刚有点时间在家休息。
Just got a little bit of time at home.
我正等着勇士队过来，但不幸的是，目前对这支队伍来说是个令人难过的故事。
I'm waiting on the warriors to come through, and unfortunately, it's kind of a sad tale for that team at this point.
顺便说一下，你可能得跟独行侠谈谈，他们根本没把摆烂这件事做好。
By the way, you may have to speak to the Mavericks who are they're they don't they're not doing the tanking thing correctly.
他们赢下了三场完胜。
They won three straight blowouts.
想比摆烂，可不容易赢过顽强的犹他爵士队。
Well, it's very difficult to outtank the scrappy Utah Jazz.
而且说实话，现在输给纽约尼克斯队真的很难接受，
And frankly, it's very hard to lose to the New York Knicks at this point,
这一点确实值得说说。
and that's something about that that.
是的。
Yeah.
我们稍后再谈这个。
We'll get to that in a little bit.
我们会的。
We will.
但你提到了周一晚上令人非常失望的进展。
But you mentioned the very disappointing developments late Monday night.
勇士队在主场取得了第十二场胜利，他们在主场连胜中取得了16场中的12场，继续主宰着主场。
The warriors won where they won their twelfth out of 16 as they continue to dominate their home stand.
但一个可能对今年乃至未来产生广泛影响的举动是，吉米·巴特勒在比赛中撕裂了右膝前交叉韧带。
But in a move that will potentially have wide ranging effects both this year and into the future, Jimmy Butler tore his right ACL during the game.
对于任何NBA球员来说都是巨大的打击，尤其是对一位36岁的球员。
Huge bummer for any NBA player, but particularly a player at age 36.
我们这边的杰夫·斯托茨，平时穿着便装，掌握着完整的伤病数据库。
Our guy, Jeff Stotts, who runs in street clothes, has all the injury database.
他说，这是自2005年他建立数据库以来，NBA历史上第二年长的球员遭遇ACL撕裂，因为说实话，很少有球员能打那么久，而这显然是一项威胁职业生涯的伤病。
He said it's the second oldest player in NBA history and his since 2005 since his database that to have a torn ACL because frankly, players don't not that many players play that long, and it's obviously a career threatening injury.
所以，邦·坦普斯，这显然让勇士队原本想争取的一些势头受到了影响。
So Bon Temps, this this obviously, the warriors were trying to get some traction.
这改变了勇士队在短期、中期乃至长期的规划，因为两周后就是交易截止日，而且吉米·巴特勒下赛季合同还有五千万美元左右。
This changes what the warriors are looking at in the short term, medium term because there's a trade deadline in two weeks and long term because Jimmy Butler has $50,000,000 on his contract, 50 something million next year.
而且，我不确定他明年还能不能打。
And, you know, I'm not sure what he's gonna be able to do next year.
周一晚上发生的这一事件，堪称震动联盟的重大变故。
So a league shaking development Monday night.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，斯莱特和我过去五六周一直在讨论勇士队目前的这段赛程。
I mean, look, Slater and I have been talking really for the past five, six weeks about this current stretch the Warriors are in.
他们经历了一段19场比赛的赛程，对手大多是实力较弱的球队，很多是主场作战，最后一场就是今晚——对那些收听和观看的人来说，是昨晚对阵多伦多猛龙队的比赛，这正好是19场的赛程。
They had a 19 game stretch against a lot of teams, a lot of winnable games, a lot of home games, ending with this game tonight, Tuesday night, obviously last night for those listening and watching against the Toronto Raptors, where it was a 19 game stretch.
他们开始这段赛程时胜率只有五成，我当时就想，结束这段赛程时他们会是什么战绩？
They went into it at five hundred, and I was like, all right, where are they going to be at the end of this stretch?
他们能打出13胜6负吗？
Can they go thirteen and six?
能打出12胜7负吗？
Can they go twelve and seven?
能打出14胜5负吗？
Can they go fourteen and five?
他们能赢下六七场，或者八场，把胜率提升到五成以上吗？
Can they get six, seven, eight games over 500?
从而给迈克·邓利维和勇士队管理层足够的理由，去积极运作交易、提升球队实力，对吧？
And really give Mike Dunleavy and the front office of the Warriors reason to be aggressive in trying to improve the team, right?
他们能否像去年那样，再次处于类似的位置？
Could they do essentially what they did last year, where they were in a similar position?
他们在赛季中期打出了一波高潮，让勇士队有理由以合理的价格签下吉米·巴特勒，最终一路打进季后赛第二轮。
They made a run-in the middle of the season, gave the Warriors reason to go get Jimmy Butler for a modest price, and they went on to make the second round of the playoffs.
正如史蒂夫·科尔在大约一个月前的圣诞前夜新闻发布会上所说，他们成功为自己创造了机会，这正是他们每年与斯蒂芬·库里一起努力的目标。
And as Steve Kerr said at that faithful press conference about a month ago on Christmas Eve, they succeeded in giving themselves a chance, which is what they're trying to do every year with Steph Curtain.
而现在的挑战是，我不确定勇士队在签下吉米·巴特勒这份合同的情况下，如何在短期或中期为自己创造机会。
And the challenge now is I don't know how the Warriors give themselves a chance in the short or medium term with this Jimmy Butler contract on the books.
这是一个非常困难的命题，即使你愿意假设：好吧，假设吉米·巴特勒在不到一年后复出。
It's a very difficult proposition, even if you want to say, okay, let's say Jimmy Butler comes back less than a year from now.
正如你所说，你谈论的是一个三十多岁、职业生涯累积了大量出场时间的球员，他本来就不是最富运动天赋的，现在还要在职业生涯的这个阶段从膝盖伤势中恢复。
As you said, you're talking about a guy who's in his mid to late 30s, who's got a lot of miles on him, who already wasn't the most athletic guy, is now trying to come off a knee injury at this stage of his career.
这是一件很难做到的事。
That's a hard thing to do.
如果他休战一年，凯里·欧文可能也差不多要休战一年，对吧？
If he takes a year, Kyrie Irving is probably on pace to take about a year, right?
这意味着他将缺席直到明年交易截止日。
That means he's out until essentially next year's trade deadline.
对于一支拥有年近40岁的斯蒂芬·库里和中后期30多岁的德雷蒙德·格林、并希望现在就保持竞争力的球队来说，这笔巨额合同束缚了他们的操作空间，而且你也不知道吉米·巴特勒复出后会是什么样子。
For a team that's got Steph Curry in his late 30s and Draymond Green in his mid to late 30s, and is trying to be competitive now, that's a gigantic contract on their books that doesn't allow them to do anything, and you don't know what Jimmy Butler's going to look like when he comes back.
如果你想要进入市场，尝试利用——比如说，你认为吉米·巴特勒只是一个薪资空间，你想交易他。
If you want to go into the market and try to use, say you say, all right, Jimmy Butler's sort of just a salary slot, you want to try to trade him.
好吧，你想交易他，但问题是，无论谁和你交换，他都会成为对方账面上一笔同样空洞的巨额合同。
Okay, well, you want to try to trade him, the problem is he is now the same sort of empty giant contract on the books of whoever you're trading for.
我们随便编一个交易吧。
Let's just make up a deal.
比如说，你给达拉斯打电话，说：嘿，达拉斯，你们有安东尼·戴维斯。
Let's say you call Dallas, say, Hey Dallas, you got Anthony Davis.
安东尼·戴维斯会出场比赛。
Anthony Davis is going to play.
我们为什么不拿吉米·巴特勒换安东尼·戴维斯？
Why don't we do Jimmy Butler for Anthony Davis?
问题
Problem
点击？
Click?
问题是
The problem
你只需为了点击而放弃。
You just drop for a click.
对于像达拉斯这样的球队来说，问题在于他们试图节省开支。
Well, know the problem for a team like Dallas, right, is they're trying to save money.
他们理论上正试图摆脱安东尼·戴维斯的合同。
They're in theory trying to get out of this Anthony Davis contract.
现在你账上有了吉米·巴特勒。
Now you've got Jimmy Butler on your books.
也许吉米·巴特勒会在下个赛季中期之前提前复出，表现得和以前一样，但即便如此，你还是无法用这笔钱做其他事。
Maybe Jimmy Butler comes back early to middle of next season and looks like the same Jimmy Butler, but that still doesn't allow you to do anything else with that money.
一切都变得异常艰难，看不出还有什么其他出路，恐怕勇士队现在只能等待，看看他们最终会排在什么位置。
It all becomes extraordinarily difficult to see what the path forward is other than the Warriors probably just have to wait now, see where they finish.
我认为他们应该让乔纳森·库明加打完本赛季剩下的比赛，看看他能展现出什么样子，因为史蒂夫·科尔
I would say they need to play Jonathan Kuminga the rest of the season, see what he can look like, because Steve Kerr
在过去三年里，我们已经说过多少次这样的话了？
is How many being times have we said that in the last three years?
听好了。
Well, listen.
史蒂夫·科尔在赛后被问到关于库明加的问题时，表现得有多热情？
How enthusiastic was Steve Curran when asked about Kuminga postgame?
当然非常热情。
Well Absolutely.
当然，没错。
Mean Sure.
我的意思是，史蒂夫，你看，对于勇士队来说，现在的情况在一百个层面上都糟透了。
I mean, Steve, I mean, look, the war it's it's an awful situation for Golden State on a 100 levels.
但归根结底，我真的不知道他们能有什么动作，他们已经
But at the end of the day, I just don't know what move they mean, were already
不是，这很好。
not That's good it.
目前没有任何可行的交易方案。
There's not a move on the board.
我的意思是，唯一我能说的是，如果在未来两周内扬尼斯·阿德托昆博宣布他想被交易——我认为这不可能发生。
I mean, look, the only thing I could say is if in the next two weeks Giannis Antetokounmpo announces he wants to be traded, which I do not think is going to happen.
但假如他真的这么做了，勇士队理论上可以，当然这完全是理论上的，
But if he did that, the Warriors could, in theory, and this is all in theory to
成为他们
be they
用他们的选秀权去做交易。
have their picks to trade.
他们还有布兰登·波切姆斯基。
They have Brandon Pachemski.
他们还有其他年轻球员。
They have other young guys.
你可以对雄鹿说，你们能得到的最好的结果就是吉米的薪水作为添头，加上我们的一些年轻球员和选秀权，这其实并不是一笔糟糕的交易，特别是对于密尔沃基来说，他们在这笔交易中得到的最有价值的资产可能是今年选秀的首轮签，最高可能排到第二顺位。
You could say to the Bucks, The best you're going to do is Jimmy's salary as a makeweight, some young guys in our picks, which wouldn't be the worst trade, particularly if you're Milwaukee, the best asset they're getting in that trade is their pick in this year's draft, which could be as high as the second pick in the draft.
这是一个可能为勇士队摆脱当前困境的出路。
And that is a world where maybe that is a way out of this situation for Golden State.
然而，我不认为这种情况会发生。
However, I don't think that's happening.
这要求勇士队现在就拿出全部资产去换取字母哥。
That would require Golden State to then pony up all of its assets for Giannis now.
而且我认为字母哥根本就没有要求交易。
I don't think Giannis asked for a trade anyway.
但关键是，如果你作为一名勇士队球迷，正在想：勇士队现在怎么才能具备竞争力？
But the point is, if you're looking at this as a Warriors fan and you're going, How are the Warriors going to be competitive right now?
我认为最有可能的情况就是，你只能等到夏天，看看局势如何发展，然后希望吉米·巴特勒能在秋天回归，因为目前我真的不知道他们还有别的什么出路。
I think the overwhelming likely scenario is you just have to wait till the summer, see where things land, and then hope that Jimmy Butler is back in the fall, because I just don't know what the other path is right now for them.
而且，吉米能在秋天复出，这想法太乐观了。
And look, Jimmy being back in the fall is awfully optimistic.
我的意思是，弗雷德·范弗利特现在正试图在ACL受伤七个月后回归季后赛，但显然，自从凯里受伤后，我已经和很多人聊过ACL恢复的事。
I mean, you've got Fred Van Vliet trying to come back for the playoffs, seven months removed from an ACL right now, but obviously, I've talked to a lot of people about ACL recovery since Kyrie went down.
我听说，恢复时间可能从七个月到十二个月不等——七个月在历史上已经极端了，但通常需要八到十二个月，而球员真正恢复到以前的水平，大概要等到十八个月后。
And I'm told, you know, the return can be anywhere from I mean, seven months would be historically extreme, but that eight to twelve month range, but really the guy's not the same again until about eighteen months out.
而对吉米来说，十八个月后？天啊，那都该是他的下一份合同了。
And eighteen months out for Jimmy, like, man, you're That's his next contract.
你这是在等他合同的后半段了。
You're getting after way
他的合同已经签完了。
his deal's done.
是的。
Yeah.
你等他复出时，他都快进三十岁了。
You're getting way deep into his thirties.
到那时，他都快40岁了。
He he's nearing 40 at that point.
而且，说实话，我认为勇士队无论Jimmy是否健康，即使他们在交易市场上有所动作，今年也不太可能成为争冠球队，但他们本可以成为一支有趣且有竞争力的队伍。
And, look, I don't think that the Warriors, regardless of what was going to happen here with a healthy Jimmy, even if they took a swing in the trade market, I don't think they were really gonna become contenders this year, but they could have been a fun competitive team.
他们最近一直在赢球。
They had they've been winning lately.
你知道，他们完全有可能像去年那样，打进第二轮并奋力一搏。
You know, they definitely could have been a team that matched what they did last year where they get to the second round and put up a fight.
我觉得以目前的情况，他们都不知道该怎么打进第一轮了。
I think it's I don't know how they are gonna be able to get to the first round at this point.
他们大概不会彻底退出季后赛竞争，但
They probably don't fall out of the playing picture, but
这更多是因为默认如此，别无他法。
That's more because of by that's by default, if nothing else.
而且这还得假设库里保持健康，因为如果库里受伤了，即使他们想赢球，也会很困难。
And that's also assuming Steph stays healthy because if Steph gets hurt, even if they're trying to win games, it's gonna be hard.
但考虑到吉米下一年还有5700万美元的合同，而他可能根本不会上场，还想着用他做交易，那真是难上加难。
But the idea of using Jimmy in a trade when he's owed $57,000,000 next year when he might not play is like, good luck.
不过，这种事情也不是不可能发生。
Well, it could happen.
首先，吉米的薪资占工资帽的35%。
So first off first off, Jimmy makes 35% of the cap.
库明加的薪资大约是15%。
Kuminga makes about 15.
加起来就是你工资帽的50%。
That's 50% of your cap.
我知道他们超出了工资帽，但这么一大笔投资却让球员不上场，实在不合理。
I know they spend over the cap, but that's a huge amount of investment that's not playing.
所以你必须对库明加做点什么。
So you're gonna have to do something with Kuminga.
要么上场打球，要么交易掉，但你不能让球队50%的薪资都花在两个本该打球的人身上，尤其是当其中一人还健康的时候。
Play them or trade them, but you can't have 50% of your team, you know, down like that when one of them is healthy.
这是第一点。
That's number one.
第二点是，当你谈论金州勇士队打算做什么时，人们会说，如果他们要进行一笔大交易，想要追逐球员，但现在我不想被任何球员绑定，因为要整合阵容。
Number two is one of the things that when you talk about what Golden State was gonna do, it was like, well, you know, if they're gonna make a huge trade, you know, if they're gonna chase and I don't wanna get stuck to any players now because aggregation.
但如果他们真要交易，你看到的球员薪资高达40.5亿美元。
But if they were gonna make a a trade, you know, you're looking at players who are making $4,050,000,000.
而他们遇到的问题是，他们不会交易斯蒂芬，也不会交易巴特勒，他们真的会把德雷蒙德和乔纳森·库明加一起交易出去吗？
And the problem that they were running into, well, while they're not trading Steph, they're not trading Butler, and are they really throwing Draymond into a trade with Jonathan Kuminga?
这个答案非常可疑，几乎不可能发生。
That answer was, you know, very dubious, very unlikely.
就像有人会说，那这个方案怎么样？
Like, you know, there was some like, well, what about this?
我要说的一点是，现在看起来不可能，但如果你等到夏天，再把吉米·巴特勒看作一个即将到期的合同，我认为他明年薪资是5600万美元。
You know, this was So one thing I will say, and can't see it happening now, but if you get to the summer and you're looking at Jimmy Butler as you're then looking at him as an expiring contract, I think it's 56,000,000 next year.
是5680万美元。
That's 56.8.
好的。
Okay.
57。
57.
这使得金州队在考虑交易更大合同的时候变得稍微可行了一点，虽然这不是好事，而是输球的后果，但至少他们的决策现在变得清晰了一些。
It it makes it a little bit more feasible to for Golden State to entertain bigger contracts to trade for, not in a good way, it's a consequence, it's a consequence of losing it, but now at least their decision making becomes a little bit more clear.
我要指出的是，就在一月份，也就是八场比赛期间，巴特勒打出了他状态最好的篮球。
And I'll point out that, you know, in January, which was eight games, you know, Butler was playing his best basketball.
我正在看他在最近八场比赛中的数据。
He was I'm looking at his stats from the last eight games.
场均21分，5.5个篮板，5次助攻，投篮命中率53%，他当时状态正佳，极大地帮助了球队。
21 points, five and a half rebounds, five assists shooting 53% from the field like he was just powering up and really helping them.
所以，当你试图预测他们未来的表现时，他们失去的正是这个连胜势头的推动者。
So, you know, like as you try to project what they're gonna be like, they're losing a guy who was driving this streak.
所以，我同意你的看法，邦·坦普斯。
So, you know, I agree with you Bon Temps.
我认为在未来两周内不太可能发生任何事情，但不幸的是，我不愿说得太粗鲁，因为这位球员现在还坐在沙发上，连手术都没做。
I think it's unlikely that we see anything happen the next two weeks, but I do think that unfortunately, and I don't mean to be crude because this guy is, you know, still sitting, you know, on a couch, like not even had surgery yet.
但当你今天和联盟里的人交谈时，他们会说，他们可能不得不交易他。
But when you talk to people in the league today, they're like, they might have to trade them.
他们可能真的不得不这么做。
They might have to.
今年夏天还是截止日期前？
This summer or before the deadline?
不。
No.
别以为我不明白
Don't think I don't
我觉得在截止日前有所行动是可行的。
think some play deadline is feasible.
而这正是让这个赛季变成一个失利的赛季，真是可惜。
I and that's what this this becomes a loss season, which is a shame.
再说一遍，我认为他们本来就不会成为争冠球队。
Again, I don't think they were gonna be contenders.
他们只是在吉米的带领下赢了15场中的12场。
They they just won 12 of 15 with Jimmy as a driver.
我的意思是，
Well, I mean,
从现实角度来看，他们几乎没有机会冲击季后赛。
probably season in terms of having a realistic chance to have a chance of making a run.
除非他们在现在到2月5日之间完成交易，否则他们根本进不了季后赛，而交易才能保留这种可能性。
They're not making unless they unless they make a trade between now and February 5, which will hold out that possibility.
温迪，你到底在期待什么？
What hope are you holding out here, Wendy?
只是因为我曾经在
Just because I've been in
NBA待了二十四年，也见过不少事情，所以我只是不想把门关死，我并不是想
the NBA for or I've been around the NBA for twenty four years, and I've seen stuff, so I'm just not trying to close doors, trying to close I would
如果没有交易，你无法逻辑上论证他们能实现史蒂夫·科尔所说的希望——即有机会冲击季后赛。
say without a trade, you can't logically make an argument that they can do what Steve Kerr said they hope to do, which is have a chance to make a run.
尤其是在西部。
In the West especially.
对。
Right.
如果他们做了交易，那我们就另当别论了。
If they make a trade, okay, then we'll see.
我不知道如果他们这么做会发生什么，但如果在2月5日之前他们不交易吉米，我真的难以想象他们会做出怎样的交易，才能让自己有希望。
I don't know what will happen if they do that, but if they don't move Jimmy between now and then, I just struggle to see the deal they're going to make that's going to allow them to have a chance.
这并不是他们自己的错，只是吉米太出色了。
It's not through any fault of their own, it's just like Jimmy's awesome.
即使有吉米和斯蒂芬，他们依然是一支偶尔能打出极高水准的球队。
And even with Jimmy and Steph, they still were a team that occasionally had really high highs.
没错，这段时期他们主场密集，有很多容易赢的比赛，表现非常出色，但我想，24小时前，我们没人会认为他们能击败雷霆、森林狼、马刺、火箭或掘金。
And yes, they've done very well in this stretch with a ton of home games, with a lot of winnable games, but I don't think any of us were sitting here twenty four hours ago thinking they could beat the Thunder, they could beat the Wolves, they could beat the Spurs, they could beat the Rockets, they could beat the Nuggets.
他们现在是第八名。
They're an eighth place team.
他们或许能升到第六名。
They could maybe get the six.
如果赛程有利，他们或许能赢下一轮系列赛。
They could maybe win a series if it broke.
对吧？
Right?
但你知道，我们之前觉得他就像这样。
But you know, we were looking at him as like, okay.
如果他们把库明加交易成另一个筹码，那还行。
If they turn Kuminga into another piece, okay.
也许那样的话，他们能稍微冲一下。
Maybe then they can make a little run.
但那前提是吉米和斯特凡组成一队。
But that was assuming it was Jimmy and Stefan a piece.
在这种情况下，德雷蒙德仍然是他们非常出色的防守球员。
And in that in that case, Draymond still being a very good defensive player for them.
现在情况很糟糕，但很难想象他们如何能走到那一步。
Now, it stinks, but it's just hard to see how they get there.
这跟吉米·巴特勒有关。
And it's for Jimmy Butler.
他是一位拥有非凡职业生涯的球员，毫无疑问是名人堂级别，他在迈阿密有过辉煌的时期。
Is a guy who's had an incredible career, a Hall of Fame player, obviously had a great run-in Miami.
虽然结局不算完美，但能打进几次总决赛，他的职业生涯已经非常出色，看到他在金州打球也让人感到愉快。
It didn't end great, but getting to a couple finals, he's had a great career, and it's been fun seeing him in Golden State.
他和斯蒂芬的组合非常有趣，去年他们取得了成功，今年也有机会成为一支有影响力的力量。
Him and Steph have been a fun combo, and they had success last year, and they had a chance to be a factor this year.
而且你知道，他是个工作狂。
And, you know, I mean, he's a maniac worker.
如果有人能从这种伤病中更快复出，那很可能就是吉米，但这要求太高了，就像麦卡洪说的，这确实令人遗憾。
If there's anybody who's gonna come back from this thing in a shorter time, it is probably Jimmy, but it's a lot to ask, like McMahon said, and, you know, it's just a bummer.
对他们来说真是个遗憾。
It's just a bummer for them.
对于一个买家似乎本来就有限的市场来说，勇士队看起来像是一个买家。
For a market that already was limited in terms of buyers seemingly, the Warriors seem like a buyer.
如果你只是对交易的发生感兴趣，我认为这也会让交易更难达成。
And if you're somebody that's just interested generally in trades happening, I think this makes it harder for trades to happen too.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，也许他们会根据他们的计划，更宽松地使用库明加。
Although, maybe they come off Kuminga a little bit more liberally depending on, you know, depending on what they're gonna do.
我认为这也取决于他们是否真的打算让库明加上场。
I think it also depends on like, do they really intend to play Kuminga?
我知道，听起来好像这是常识。
Like, I know I know it sounds I know it sounds like common sense.
你失去了这个人。
You lose this guy.
你不可能让一个如此水平的球员一直闲置。
You just you can't have a a player of that level d you know, inactive.
但是
But
尤其是史蒂夫一再强调过，你不能让德雷蒙德、吉米和他同时上场，而且他需要长时间出场。
Well, especially when Steve has repeated the thing Steve has said over and over again is you can't play him, Draymond, and Jimmy together, and he needs to play in long stretches.
现在吉米不上场了，这个位置就空出来了。
Well, now Jimmy's not playing, the spot is there.
所以我觉得，至少为了最大化他的价值，如果你真想好好利用他，就得做出一些让步，让他上场。
So I feel like if for nothing else, his value going forward, if you want to try to get the most out of him, you have to have some detente and play him.
如果你在寻找什么机会的话，是的，打造
If you're looking for something, you know, yes, build
提升库明加的价值，因为他的合同确实很有交易价值，明年还有球队选项。
up Kuminga's value because he does have a very tradable contract, a team option for next year.
所以如果你执行了这个选项，这就变成了一份即将到期的合同，加上一位有潜力的球员。
So you if you pick it up, you these becomes expiring and a prospect player.
更多《Hoop Collective》播客内容，敬请期待。
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
冯·泰晤士，你周末离开纽约后，一切都乱套了。
Von Thames, you left New York for the weekend, and all hell broke loose.
不。
No.
这
It
当时确实出事了。
was breaking one Right.
十二分之一。
Of 12
所以尼克斯队周一被达拉斯队狠狠击败了——我本不该说他们在摆烂。
So the Knicks got blasted on Monday by the I I shouldn't say they're tanking Mavericks.
不。
No.
不。
No.
他们并不是在故意输球。
They're not tanking fair.
他们已经被严重削弱了。
They're they're they're decimated.
我的意思是，是的。
I mean Yeah.
他们是一支目前有两位顶薪球员无法上场的独行侠队。
They're a a Mavericks team that's got two max players who aren't active right now.
他们是一支独行侠队。
They're a Mavs team.
你看。
Look.
当然。
Sure.
库珀·法格上场了，但真正彻底摧毁尼克斯的是穆萨·西AY。
Cooper Fagg played, but it was Musa Sisay who was just devastating the Knicks.
你知道他为什么能彻底摧毁尼克斯吗？
And you know why he was devastating the Knicks?
因为他打得非常拼命。
Because he plays hard.
你知道尼克斯现在没做什么吗？
You know what the Knicks aren't doing right now?
打得不够拼命。
Playing hard.
嗯，那场比赛上半场他们就落后了30分，差不多是这样。
Well, they were down by 30 in the first half of that game or close to it.
马克斯·克里斯蒂也在狠狠打击他们。
Max Christie lighting them up too.
马克斯·克里斯蒂投进了好多三分球。
Max Christie had a whole bunch of threes.
好的。
Okay.
尼克斯队在11场比赛中输了9场。
So the Knicks have lost nine of 11.
如果你回过头去看，他们曾在拉斯维加斯赢得过NBA杯。
If you go back and look, you know, they won the the NBA Cup in Vegas.
我觉得他们一度曾取得23胜9负的战绩。
I think they got to twenty three and nine, I think, at one point, their record.
这可不是一个小样本。
And so that's not a small sample size.
这可是超过了赛季的三分之一。
That's, you know, more than a third of the season.
而从那以后，他们基本上是2胜9负。
And, you know, they're two and nine, I believe, basically since.
丝带的诅咒。
The curse of the ribbon.
在这段时期，他们的进攻和防守都排在联盟倒数第五。
In that stretch, they've had a bottom five offense and a bottom five defense.
从赛季开幕日到圣诞节，他们的进攻高居联盟第三。
Between the opening day and Christmas, they had the number three offense in the league.
我认为在这11场比赛中，他们的进攻排名大概是第二十七或第二十六。
They, I think, in this 11 game stretch are like twenty seventh or twenty sixth.
第二十五。
Twenty fifth.
第二十五。
Twenty fifth.
而在防守端，他们排在第二十八。
And defensively, they're twenty eighth.
顺便说一下，
By the way,
两胜九负的战绩在该阶段与联盟最差战绩并列。
two and nine tied for the worst record in the league during that stretch.
是的。
Yep.
和谁？
With?
我本来正要重新查一下，但其实是
I was actually just about to relook that up, but it's
在好几支球队。
in several jets.
犹他，
Utah,
布鲁克林和新奥尔良。
Brooklyn, and New Orleans.
对。
Yeah.
这是你想要的。
That's something you want.
一直低迷，一直低迷，
Tanking and tanking,
还有尼克斯队。
and the Knicks.
所以，
So The
在多兰看来，这是一支争夺冠军的纽约尼克斯队。
the the title contending New York Knicks as far as Dolan's concerned.
所以，乔什，是的。
So Josh yeah.
那个我们待会儿再谈。
That's we'll get to that.
所以，乔什·哈特缺席了一些比赛。
So Josh Hart missed some games.
布伦森也缺席了一些比赛，但他们都回归了这场比赛。
Brunson missed some games, but they both were back for this one.
迈尔斯·麦克布莱德那段时间也缺席了一些比赛。
Miles McBride missed some games in there.
他确实上场了，我的意思是，他们现在都健康了。
He was in I mean, they they're healthy right now.
而且，你知道的，他们投篮表现不错。
And, you know, they did shoot the ball.
所以他们在赛季初的赛程比较有利。
So they had a favorable schedule early on by the time.
我只是记得，有一段时间，他们好像有六场甚至七场这样的比赛。
I just remember they had like at one point, think they had like six or maybe six or seven more six, seven.
这还算是个情况吗？
Is that still a thing?
因为摄像机的原因，他们主场打得更多。
More home do the thing because of the camera.
是的。
Yeah.
不要与AI互动。
Do not engage the AI.
他们在赛程上占了优势，但进攻端一直很吃力。
They had a favorable schedule coming out, but they were really chugging on offense.
我认为他们在12月份的三分命中率是41%，这可能是联盟第一。
I think they in the month of December, I think they shot 41% on three pointers, which is I think was number one.
他们的表现已经大幅回升了。
And they've come way back.
我让威廉姆斯查一下数据，因为和一些纽约的人聊天时，有人提到过，你时不时会听到这种说法，我也经常谈这个，但你知道，投篮运气和投篮波动——在丹尼斯那11场比赛的 stretches 中，他们的命中率远低于平均水平，目前在投篮波动排名中位列第27位。
I had stats Williams look this up because in talking to some folks in New York, it was meant to been mentioned to me that, you know, you hear this from time to time you hear me talk about it, but you know shooting luck shooting variants the Dennis eleven game stretch the they're shooting much worse than then they're they're twenty seventh in shooting variants.
换句话说，他们现在
In other words, they're
我明白，但我知道。
I hear you, but they I know.
我甚至都不想说这个。
I don't even like saying it.
我只是
I'm just
说
talk saying
关于他们是否投进球。
about whether they're making shots.
我知道。
I know.
他们没投进球。
They're not making shots.
而不是他们防守得如何。
Than they're guarding.
如果你不更加努力，那就只有米切尔·罗宾逊看起来在拼命打球。
If you don't put forth more effort than they are like, Mitchell Robinson looks like the only guy who's playing hard.
而且他们不可能安排这么多上场时间。
And they can't plan that many minutes.
我的意思是，你知道，他现在是一个刻意扮演有限角色的球员。
I mean, you know, he he's he's a he's a very limited on purpose role player right now.
是的。
Yeah.
这支队伍的灵魂深处现在正腐烂着。
There is there is a rot in the soul of this team right now.
我的意思是，认真地说，你该怎么解释一支本应是冠军争夺者、却以如此糟糕的防守打出2胜9负战绩的球队呢？
Like, seriously, how else do you explain a team that is supposed to be a title contender going two and nine with this bad of a defense.
而且，你看看，独行侠要在马丁·路德·金纪念日这天，到麦迪逊广场花园打一场全国直播的比赛，而你们就拿出了这样的表现？
And and you've got the Mavericks coming into Madison Square Garden for a nationally televised game on MLK Day, and that's the effort that you put up.
我的意思是，独行侠少了两名核心球员。
I mean, that is a come the the the Mavericks missing two max players.
那支正挣扎着朝乐透区末尾滑落的独行侠，在全国观众面前，在你们的主场把你们彻底击溃了。
The Mavericks who are limping towards a single digit lottery pick blew you out of your building in front of a national TV audience.
我的意思是，这对一支在夏天因为没能赢得他们打进的总决赛而解雇了教练的球队来说，简直是彻头彻尾的耻辱。
I mean, it it's a this is a complete embarrassment for a team that fired their coach in the summer for the crime of not winning the conference finals that they got to.
纽约尼克斯队目前存在一些更深层次的问题，远不止投篮命中率的波动。
There's some real issues that are much deeper rooted than shooting variants with the New York Knicks right now.
同意。
Agree.
所以，我觉得他们这次西海岸之旅其实已经出现了一些警示信号。
So, you know, I think there were some red flags on this West Coast trip that they went on.
他们在旧金山对阵勇士队的那场比赛中输了，德雷蒙德·格林甚至在一次犯规中直接扑倒了卡尔·安东尼·唐斯。
This game that they played in in San Francisco where they lost to the warriors and Draymond Green, like, you know, had a flagrant value just tackled cat Carl Towns at one point.
比赛结束后，尼克斯球迷，我觉得还有一些球员注意到，迈克拥抱了德雷蒙德。
And then after the game, Knicks fans and I think, you know, some players noticed that Mike was embracing Draymond.
他们过去确实一起赢得过总冠军。
They obviously won a championship together.
赛后评论中，他也没有为德雷蒙德辩护，这一点显然引起了注意。
Didn't exactly defend him in the postgame comments either, which was definitely noticed.
当时的情况是，卡尔在那场比赛中已经拿到了几次犯规，你知道的，他确实犯规了。
Well, that was the situation also where Carl had gotten a few fouls in that game, which, you know, he fouls.
他抢篮板，然后犯规。
It's he rebounds and he fouls.
你知道的。
You know?
你知道，这些就是卡尔·唐斯会做的事。
You know, these are two things that Carl Towns is gonna do.
我觉得卡尔希望迈克能指出这些问题，但迈克没有。
And I think Carl wanted Mike to review them and Mike didn't.
也许他身边的研究人员告诉他，你管不了他。
And, you know, maybe he had his analysts there saying you're not gonna get him.
我不确定。
I don't know.
但这就让更衣室里刮起了一阵冷风。
But like, that created a cold wind through the locker room.
然后他们去了萨克拉门托。
And then they go to Sacramento.
实际上，他们在那之前刚去过萨克拉门托。
Well, actually they were in Sacramento right before that.
你知道，这是迈克·布朗重返萨克拉门托的比赛。
And you know, this was Mike Brown's return game to like, you know, go back to Sacramento.
那场比赛中，尼克斯队完全溃不成军。
And the Knicks completely rolled over in that game.
那场比赛里，他们根本没有为教练拼劲儿。
There was no fight for their coach in that game.
所以，这就是原因之一。
So there's that.
还有就是，你知道，迈克和卡尔·唐斯之间一直缺乏默契，迈克从未表现出兴趣去为唐斯设计进攻。
There's the fact that, you know, Mike and Carl Towns have not had chemistry in regards to you know, Mike has not shown interest in, you know, setting the offense up for Towns.
这在季前赛时就已经形成了固定模式。
Like, that was something that was sort of established in the preseason.
整个赛季都是如此。
All season.
是的
Yeah.
回到今年年初的时候。
Going back to the very start of the year.
这一直是个持续的问题。
That's been an ongoing thing.
而唐斯的数据依然不错。
And Towns has still put up good numbers.
他的投篮命中率有所下降，但你知道的，他在对阵独行侠的比赛中抢下了18个篮板。
His shooting percentages are down, but, you know, he had 18 rebounds in this game against the Mavericks.
所以情况就是这样。
So there's that.
你知道，布里奇斯的三分命中率比去年还要好。
You know, Bridges has Bridges is actually shooting better from three than he did last year.
他去年的表现很差，但布里奇斯其实还没发挥出最佳状态。
His numbers last year were bad, but like Bridges hasn't been at his best.
OG，你知道，OG·阿努诺比受了伤。
OG, you know, OG Anunobi had that injury.
我觉得他并没有打得糟糕。
I feel like he I I don't feel like he's played terribly.
他最近的投篮命中率还不错。
His shooting percentages are okay over the last
两年了。
two years.
没人打得
Nobody's played
没人在这支球队打得好的。
Nobody's played well on the No.
我的意思是，整个赛季来看。
Mean, I meant over the course of the season.
比如，这两个人在整个赛季中表现得都很不错。
Like, those two guys over the course of the season have played well.
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但他被解雇了
But he's fired
蒂布斯，他们看起来就像一支在教练首个赛季中途就向教练投降的球队。
Tibbs, and they look like a team that is rolling over on their coach midway through his first season.
说实话，这事儿没法说得委婉。
Like, there's not a nice way to put this.
你知道，人们都把矛头指向卡特，因为他在迈克·布朗身上遇到的问题，就像一场奇怪的小型冷战，一直摆在台面上。
And you know, people point the finger at Kat because him, you know, his issues with Mike Brown have been kinda like that weird little cold war has been kinda front and center.
如果他只是个例外，那倒还说得过去。
It'd be one thing if he was an exception here.
如果你说，‘好吧，就这一个人是问题所在。’
If you looked at, well, that one guy is the problem.
你不能把卡特当替罪羊，说他就是球队现在毫无斗志的全部原因。
You can't scapegoat Kat and say he's the reason that the whole team is playing with minimal effort right now.
我的意思是，你看看杰伦·布伦森，第二节中途还在试图鼓舞士气，结果球队之后表现得更差了。
Mean, you got Jalen Brunson midway through the second quarter trying to give a rah rah speech, and they went out and bad went worse after that.
顺便说一下，拉莫娜·谢尔伯恩周二报道说，比赛结束后，布伦森召集了一次只有球员参加的会议。
Well, by the way, so Ramona Shelburne reported on Tuesday that after the game, Brunson called a players only meeting.
我不知道你是否认为这能起到什么作用。
I don't know whether you think that gets anything done.
但据拉莫娜称，在这次会议上，他们强调，摆脱困境的关键在于他们自己，而不是教练组，必须靠全队一起努力。
But, you know, in this meeting, supposedly, according to Ramona, they and emphasized that the getting them out of this is is in that room, not the coaching staff, that they've got to do it as a team.
顺便提一下，他们下一场比赛将在主场对阵布鲁克林。
So, you know, to note that their next game is against Brooklyn at home.
如果真有能反弹的对手，那应该就是布鲁克林了，但是
They if there's that if there's a get well team, it's against Brooklyn, but
布鲁克林会拼尽全力的。
Brooklyn is gonna play hard.
这是一场充满压力的比赛。
That is a fraught game.
这对主队来说是一场充满压力的比赛。
That is a fraught game for the home team.
我就说这一点。
I will just say that.
詹姆斯·多兰在周一比赛的中场休息时离开了，我建议尼克斯队在这段关键时期主场不要输给篮网队。
James Dolan left at halftime of Monday's game, and I would advise the Knicks to not lose to the Nets at the Garden in the middle of this stretch.
我只是建议一下。
I would just advise that.
那他能做什么呢？
Well, what's he gonna do?
在赛季中途解雇一位曾取得成功的教练，他还会再这么做吗？
Fire the coach halfway through a season that he fired a coach who was successful?
我只是告诉你，我在纽约待了很久，篮网队拥有尼克斯队未来所有的选秀权。
I'm just telling you, I've been in New York a long time, and the Nets have all the Knicks picks going out in the future.
显然，他们做了这笔交易，而在此之前，他们已经四十年没做过任何交易了。
They obviously made this trade, which they hadn't made a trade in forty years before they made that trade.
这两支球队之间长期以来因各种原因存在敌意，我再次建议尼克斯队在这段关键时期主场不要输给篮网队。
There is famously animus between the two franchises for a variety of reasons, and I just would advise the Knicks to not lose to the Nets at home in the middle of this stretch.
你认为我周二发表的关于迈克·布朗和霍尔迪·霍尔迪·费尔南德斯二十年关系的专题报道，会在纽约获得大量鲜花和高度赞誉吗？
Do you think the the feature story that I published on Tuesday about Mike Brown and Jordi Jordi Fernandez's twenty year relationship will be getting lots of flowers and high praise in New York?
我目前认为不会。
I would assume no at the moment.
接下来呢？
And what's next?
故事的时机很重要，但有时候并不凑巧。
Good timing with stories, and sometimes you don't.
有时候你
Sometimes you
并不凑巧。
don't.
这是一
It's a
霍尔迪·费尔南德斯和迈克·布朗。
Jordy Fernandez and Mike Brown.
如果你
If you
是的。
Yes.
可以在一个月内完成。
Could do it in month.
去年尼克斯队在汤姆·锡伯杜的带领下，进攻非常出色，防守也高于平均水平。
Knicks last year, under Tom Thibodeaux, the Knicks were a very good offensive team, and they were an above average defensive team.
并非远超平均水平，但他们在进攻和防守评分上分别位列第五和第十三。
Not way above average, but they were fifth and thirteenth in offense and defensive rating.
在我看来，以杰伦·布伦森和卡尔·安东尼·唐斯为核心阵容的球队，防守能排到第十三已经相当不错了。
Thirteenth was about as good as you could hope to do, in my opinion, defensively, with a team anchored by Jalen Brunson and Carl Towns.
要驾驭这样的局面并不容易，而汤姆·锡伯杜在这方面做得相当不错。
That is a challenging thing to try to navigate, and it's something that Tom Thibodeau did a pretty good job of.
即使在这段低迷期之前，如果你回溯到12月30日——也就是他们在新年夜对阵马刺队遭遇崩盘、开启两胜九负下滑之前——尼克斯队的进攻排名第三，这当然很好，但他们本不会是一支出色的进攻球队。
And even before this stretch, if you go back to December 30, the day before they had the collapse against the Spurs on New Year's Eve that started this two and nine spiral they're in, The Knicks were third in offense, which is very good, obviously, but they weren't going to be a very good offensive team.
他们在防守端下滑到了第十六名。
And they were down to sixteenth in defense.
所以，即使他们开局表现不错，整体还是稍微变差了。
So they're already a little worse, even with the hot start they were on.
而且，布莱恩，你说得对，这段时间他们确实投篮不准。
And to your point, Brian, yes, they haven't hit shots in this stretch.
但在我看来，他们防守排在第二十八位，正如麦卡洪所指出的——
But to me, the fact that the twenty eighth in defense, and as McMahon laid out-
比谁好？
better than who?
我们就这么说吧——
Let's just say that-
我认为是布鲁克林和犹他这两支球队。
Better than Brooklyn and Utah, I believe, are the two teams.
我觉得没错。
I think that's right.
两支球队
Two teams
正全力以赴争取在乐透抽签中获得最佳机会。
are full speed ahead to trying to maximize their odds in the lottery.
没错。
Exactly.
所以从这个角度来看
So when look at it that way
他们试图让乔迪·费尔南德斯同时派上七名新秀。
They're trying to make Jordi Fernandez play seven rookies at one time.
他们正在试图
They're trying to
派上七名新秀。
play seven rookies.
我
I
我也会认为他们会是布鲁克林队
would also assume they'll be Brooklyn
篮网队。
Nets.
为什么？
Why.
我推测布鲁克林篮网队会在周三全力以赴赢得这场比赛。
I assume the Brooklyn Nets will be going all out to win this game on Wednesday.
我觉得他们整个赛季都不会再这样了。
I think they're Not another one the rest of the season.
嗯，这可能是真的。
Well, that might be true.
下一次比赛。
Game against the next time.
我觉得他们再打一场
Think they So play one more
是的。
yeah.
我怀疑他们非常想赢。
I suspect they're gonna be interested to win.
我觉得你说得完全对，庞特斯。
I think I think that is exactly right, Pontes.
对。
Yes.
同意。
Agree.
我长期关注这两支球队。
I've been around these two teams for a long time.
我怀疑他们很想赢下这场比赛。
I suspect they're gonna wanna win the game.
这并不意味着他们一定能赢，也许球员们只是说，反正不会有什么坏处。
Doesn't mean they will, and maybe the players only I mean, players only mean it can't hurt.
我的意思是，到这个阶段，没什么可损失的。
I mean, nothing can hurt at this point.
尼克斯管理层，我说的是吉姆·多兰和莱昂·罗斯，对这套阵容的投入是首要的，明白吗？
The Knicks organization, and I'm talking about Jim Dolan and Leon Rose, is number one highly invested in this particular roster, okay?
而且，让我们提醒一下大家，吉姆·多兰整整两年没接受过采访了，但两周前他上了卡顿秀。
Well, and let's remind everybody to that point, Jim Dolan hadn't done an interview in two years, and he goes on the Carton Show two weeks ago.
他确实上了。
He did go on the
他两年没接受过采访了。
He had with done an interview in two years.
他接受了我提出的提问。
Where he took questions from me.
他整整两年没接受过采访了。
He hadn't done an interview in two years.
两年来他第一次复出，上了卡顿秀，说我们必须打进总决赛，而且应该赢下它。
In two years, he comes back and does the carton show and says, We gotta make the finals, and we should win them.
从那以后，尼克斯队的战绩是两胜六负。
Since then, the Knicks have gone two and six.
而且这发生在他们拒绝为NBA杯升起彩带之后。
And this was after refusing to raise the ribbon for the NBA Cup.
没错。
That's right.
所以首先，他们对这支队伍进行了大量投入。
So first off, they have heavily invested in this team.
他们延长了所有这些球员的合同，续约了OG，交易得到了唐斯。
They have, you know, extended all these players, extended OG, extended Bridges, traded for Towns.
布伦森的事情再明显不过了。
The Brunson thing is a no brainer.
但他们已经……而且在那之后
But they've And after
他们取得了二十五年来最好的赛季，
they had the best season in twenty five years,
他们解雇了教练。
they fired the coach.
他们解雇了教练。
They fired the coach.
你看。
Then look.
有些后来
Some After
顺便说一下，经历了多年的内斗。
years of infighting, by the way.
总有一天，我们会看到一部关于尼克斯队和雄鹿队在八月进行的谈判的《30对30》纪录片，那些谈判涉及当时发生的事。
Some someday, we'll have a 30 for 30 on the talks between the Knicks and the and the Bucks that happened in August about what went on there.
但如果尼克斯队当时真的想交易得到字母哥，那他们并没有表现出诚意，因为这件事从未真正成形。
But if the Knicks really wanted to trade for Giannis then, it didn't show because it never really got traction.
所以，他们就是这样，这基本上就是吉姆·多兰在WFAN电台上的说法。
So they they and that's pretty much what Jim Dolan said on WFAN.
他说，我已经学会不去追逐闪亮的东西。
He was like, I've learned not to chase a shiny object.
所以他们对这套阵容和迈克·布朗都投入了大量资源，而我同意，当初他们解雇蒂布斯时，没人料到他们会聘请布朗。
So they are heavily invested in this roster and in Mike Brown, who I agree, when they fired Tibbs, that wasn't the guy that thought they were gonna hire.
但无论如何，他们聘请了他，并且支持了他，他也取得了成功。
But however, they have hired him, and they have backed him up, and he has had success.
不管你怎么称呼NBA杯，他们都赢了。
Whatever you wanna call the NBA Cup, they won it.
明白吗？
Okay?
听我说。
Listen.
直到12月30日，一切都没问题。
Until December 30, things were fine.
我同意。
I agree.
所以这就是为什么我认为这个组织必须坚持下去，因为他们已经深陷其中，包括交易和教练。
And so that's why I believe that the organization is probably got to stick with it because they're they're they're too deep in, and that includes trades and the coach.
所以我才说，我会建议他们击败篮网队。
That's why I say, I would advise them to beat the nets.
我这么说并不是基于任何内部信息，但我会建议他们周三不要输给布鲁克林篮网队。
That's not with any knowledge of anything, to be clear, but I would advise them to not lose to the Brooklyn nets on Wednesday.
我同意。
I agree.
我之前跟你们说过，尼克斯队教练必须先击败的首个对手是谁吗？
What did I what I tell you boys about the first opponent that a Knicks coach has to beat?
纽约尼克斯队。
The New York Knicks.
凯尔特人队也在名单上。
And The Celtics are on the list too.
不。
No.
尼克斯教练必须先击败纽约尼克斯队，因为这支球队的文化极具挑战性，这就是为什么他们过去二十五年里一直未能取得成功，直到最近几年才有所好转。
The Knicks coach has to beat the New York Knicks first because it's such a challenging culture, and that's why that's why they haven't had success in a quarter century until these last couple years.
这种文化始于最顶层，而目前这支球队正面临文化上的腐化。
The culture starts at the very, very top, and there's culture rot in that franchise right now.
有一件事
The one thing
我要说的是，尽管他们11场比赛输了9场，但仍然排在第三位。
I will say is despite losing nine of 11, they are only they are still in third place.
他们在积分榜上只下滑了一个名次，落后波士顿两场胜场差。
They only lost one spot in the standings, and they're two games in the lost column behind Boston.
但波士顿和尼克斯在积分榜上的差距显而易见，而且我们即将
But Boston and the Knicks do not look close in the standings, and we're gonna
讨论这一点。
talk about that.
领先第七名两场胜场差。
Two games in the lost column ahead of seventh.
也许他们能升起一面冠军旗帜。
Maybe they can raise a play in championship banner.
更多《Hoop Collective》播客，敬请期待。
More Hoop Collective podcast after this.
所以我们提到，凯尔特人现在是联盟第二种子。
So we mentioned that the Celtics are now the two seed in these.
他们实际上已经连续几天都是这个排名了。
They actually have been for a few days now.
他们在马丁·路德·金日对阵头号种子时打了一场精彩的比赛。
They played a great game against the one seed on Martin Luther King day.
顺便说一下，那场比赛是在底特律打的。
Go into Detroit, by the way.
底特律队在比赛末段赢下了那场对决。
So Detroit wins that game late.
尽管如此，凯尔特人依然表现得很出色。
The Celtics have had have still been playing well.
我回去查了一下。
I went back and looked.
所以雷霆队在马丁·路德·金日让骑士队打出了他们今年，也许是多年来最差的进攻表现。
So the the Thunder held the Cavs to their worst offensive game all year, maybe in, like, several years on Martin Luther King Day.
我就说说关于骑士队的这一点。
And I will just say this about the Cavs.
你知道，他们正在应对更多的伤病。
You know, they're dealing with more injuries.
达柳斯·加兰缺阵了。
Darius Garland is out.
他们说要缺阵七到十天，但实际时间会更长。
They said seven to ten days, but it's it's gonna be longer.
你知道，那场骑士队对阵雷霆队的比赛是在一月份发生的。
Year, you know, it was in January when the Cavs had that game against the Thunder.
那是去年最佳的常规赛比赛之一，而骑士队赢下了那场比赛。
It was one of the best regular season games of last year, and the Cavs won that game.
当时我就想，也许骑士队在系列赛中还能对雷霆队构成一些威胁。
And it was like, oh, like, you know, maybe the Cavs would have a a fighter's chance, you know, against the Thunder in a series.
他们在这场比赛中主场输了30分，而你却不说这些。
They lost this one by 30 and on their home court, and you're not saying that.
而且雷霆队也伤兵满营。
And the Thunder are banged up.
没有杰伦·威廉姆斯。
No Jalen Williams.
没有以赛亚·哈滕斯坦，亚历克斯·克鲁索在那场比赛中受伤离场。
No Isaiah Hartenstein, and Alex Kruso got hurt in that game and left.
所以显然，和
So obviously And the
另一个杰伦·威廉姆斯也是。
other Jalen Williams did too.
没错。
That's right.
所以，你知道，你在谈论尼克斯和骑士队表现挣扎，这些原本我们认为会在东部排名前二的球队，现在却没能做到。
So, you know, you're talking about the Knicks struggling, the Cavs, those are the teams that we thought would be one two in the East, Not getting it done.
真正排名东部前二并表现出色的球队是底特律和波士顿。
The teams that the teams that are one two in the East that are getting it done, Detroit and Boston.
所以，Bon Temps，我去查了一下这个。
So Bon Temps, I went and looked this up.
总之，我一开始说的是雷霆队的防守，你知道的，他们像对付几乎所有对手一样，把骑士队打得毫无招架之力——投篮命中率惨不忍睹，失误多得离谱，这总是发生在对阵雷霆时，因为他们的风格就是这样。
So anyway, where I started was Thunder Defense, you know, bringing the Cavs to their knees like they bring every, you know, as almost every opponent, like terrible shooting percentage, super high turnovers that always happens against the Thunder because that's who they are.
但你回头看看12月1日那场比赛。
But you go back to December 1.
所以我们现在说的是六七周前的事了。
So we're talking six, seven weeks now.
联盟中最好的防守球队其实是活塞队。
The best defense in the league has been owned by the Pistons.
是的。
Yeah.
而且他们今年排名第二，雷霆和活塞之间存在明显差距。
And they're number two for the year, and there's a gap between the Thunder and the Pistons.
活塞和排名第三的马刺之间的差距也差不多这么大。
There's just about as big of a gap between the Pistons and the third ranked Spurs.
活塞是一支精英级别的防守球队，拥有年轻球星实力，目前他们在东部的领先优势，和雷霆在西部的领先优势一样大。
The Pistons are an elite defensive team, an elite defensive team with young star power that is they have as big of a lead in the Eastern Conference right now as the Thunder do in the West.
他们目前的胜场节奏是62胜。
They are on a 62 win pace.
他们在赛季中途的战绩是31胜10负。
They are thirty one and ten at the halfway mark.
他们与波士顿并列净效率值第二，达到每100回合+7.4分。
They are tied with Boston for second in net rating at 7.4 plus per 100.
正如麦卡洪所说，他们在防守端排名联盟第二，整个赛季下来，防守排第二，进攻排第十一。
As McMahon said, they're second in the league in defense, and they're 11 for a whole season, they're second league in defense, and they're eleventh in offense.
对我来说，看了昨晚的比赛后，我仍然对底特律在季后赛中的表现有些犹豫，因为他们只有一个能运球的球员。
And to me, at this point, watching the game last night, I still am a little hesitant on Detroit in the playoffs because they only have one guy who could dribble.
说到根本上，凯德·坎宁安真的很出色。
And when it gets down to it, Cade Cunningham is awesome.
昨晚他投了4投3中。
And last night he went four for Trust.
17分，但他
17, but he
他们有不少后卫，但是
They have a number of guards, but
关键是当他把你
it's One about when he gets you to
真正的创造型球员。
creator, one real deal creator.
顺便说一句，我知道球员们的全明星投票很奇怪，也很可笑，比如朋友
One by the way, as a real quick aside, I know the all star voting with the players is wonky and laughable, like friend of
波德，乔治。
the pod, George.
他值得获得那10票。
He deserved those 10 votes he got.
他得了10票。
He got 10 votes.
布朗尼·詹姆斯只得了两票。
Bronnie James got two votes.
我觉得应该指出的是，球员们投票选出的东部最佳球员是凯德。
I do think it should be point out that the players voted their number one highest folk getter among the players in the East was Cade.
所以说，这简直是一种尊重的体现。
So, like, talk about a respect thing.
好吧，你看。
Well, look.
凯德昨晚送出了14次助攻，没有一次失误。
Cade last night had 14 assists and no turnovers.
是的，他投篮17投4中，但他表现得非常出色。
So yes, he went four for 17 from the field, but he has been awesome.
他这个赛季打得太出色了，完全配得上全明星首发，也配得上MVP竞争者的地位。
And he is having a hell of a season, deserving all star starter, deserving guy in the MVP race.
这些都说得对。
All of that is true.
但底特律现在的情况，我觉得和我们去年讨论俄克拉荷马城时的情况一样，那就是杰伦·威廉姆斯是否足够出色，能成为一支真正争冠球队所需的第二得分手。
But Detroit is in the same situation, I would say, that we talked about with Oklahoma City all of last year, which was, was Jalen Williams good enough to be the second perimeter scorer that you really need to be a true championship contending team.
现在，杰伦·威廉姆斯在总决赛中，带着断裂的手腕砍下了40分。
Now Jaylen Williams went on to have 40 points in the finals with busted wrist.
他证明了自己有能力做到这一点。
He proved he was good enough to do that.
对吧？
Right?
如果你看看这支活塞队，昨天泰瑞·托拜厄斯·哈里斯得了25分。
If you look at this Pistons team, Tyre Tobias Harris had 25 yesterday.
托拜厄斯·哈里斯是一位经验丰富的老将。
Tobias Harris is a good vet.
蒂亚戈·哈里斯在季后赛中并不是那样的球员。
Tobias Harris is not that guy in the playoffs.
贾登·艾维，你知道的，哈里斯。
Jaden Ivy, you know Well, Tobias
哈里斯现在可以在总决赛中拿到40分，我打赌他会。
Harris could have 40 in the finals now, mark it down.
他很可能能做到。
He probably would.
听我说，我希望他真的能做到。
Listen, I hope he does.
哈里斯是个很棒的人。
Tobias is an awesome dude.
那会是一个很棒的故事。
That would be a great story.
他是个很棒的家伙。
He is a great guy.
贾登·艾维替补出场十七分钟，投进了几球，但贾登·艾维被选中就是为了成为这种球员，尽管此前因伤病等原因未能兑现。
Jaden Ivy played seventeen minutes off the bench, hit a couple shots, but Jayden Ivy was drafted to be that sort of guy to this point through injuries and whatever else.
他还没能成为那样的球员。
He hasn't been that guy.
考虑到底特律目前的排名，我并不是说他们必须孤注一掷，但这个赛季他们表现如此出色，位置如此有利，我非常期待他们会怎么做——如果他们能在凯德身边再添一名真正的外线威胁，而不是让凯德独自面对对手的任何防守。
So with where Detroit is in the standings, I'm not saying they have to push all their chips in, but this season has gone so well, and they are in such a strong position that I'll be fascinated to see what they do because if they can get another legitimate threat on the perimeter next to Cade, so it's not just Cade against whatever defense is going up against him.
因为我们都知道，在季后赛中，如果他们遭遇系列赛，对手一定会全力封锁凯德。
Because we know in the playoffs, if they're going up against somebody in a series, they're going to be completely loaded up to stop Cade.
昨晚那场比赛，凯尔特人三分球41投13中。
And in this game last night, the Celtics go 13 for 41 from three.
德里克·怀特11投1中，三分球6投0中。
Derrick White was one for 11 and o for six from three.
他在季后赛系列赛中的表现肯定不会这么差。
Like, he's probably gonna be better than that in a playoff series.
杰森·塔图姆可能很快就会复出。
Like, Jayson Tatum could be back.
他在周一投篮训练后，在媒体面前进行了五十分钟的训练。
He had a fifty minute workout in front of the media for after shoot around on Monday.
我认为这清楚地表明杰森·塔图姆正在努力复出，并希望别人看到他的状态。
I would take that as a clear indication that Jayson Tatum is working to get back and wanted people to see.
他确实出现了。
He was out there.
这绝非偶然。
It was not a mistake.
他是在媒体面前做的这件事。
He did it in front of the media.
是的。
Yeah.
因为球员们经常训练，这很正常。
Because there's plenty of times where guys work out, hey.
对。
Hey.
嘿。
Hey.
碗店关门了，老兄。
Bowl's closed, man.
如果他想让碗店关门，你就得去搞定。
And You gotta get if he wanted the bowl closed
对于刚从伤病中复出的球员来说，这很常见。
That's commonplace for a guy coming back from injury.
当然。
Absolutely.
如果查斯说他们想让碗店关门，那碗店早就关了，但事实上碗店并没有关。
If Chase said they wanted the bowl to be closed, the bowl would've been closed, and the bowl was not closed.
所以如果你昨晚看这场对阵，你是底特律队，我的意思是，我们刚讨论过。
So if you're looking at this matchup last night and you're Detroit, I mean, look, we just talked about it.
尼克斯队一团糟。
The Knicks are a mess.
骑士队一团糟。
The Cavs are a mess.
所有这些其他费城球员的表现都起伏不定，而且明显存在诸多重大伤病疑虑。
All these other Phillies had been very up and down, all sorts of obvious giant injury questions.
奥兰多队既表现无效，又面临严重的伤病问题。
Orlando has both been ineffective and has big injury questions.
这些东部的球队几乎都有重大疑问。
Like, All these teams in the East have big question marks.
到目前为止，底特律队的防守非常稳固。
And Detroit to this point has a rock solid defense.
他们现在拥有一位真正的超级巨星球员——凯德。
They've got a legitimate superstar player now in Kade.
他们拥有成为真正冠军争夺者所需的一切条件，唯独缺少那个第二得分手。
They have all the pieces you would want to be a legitimate championship threat, except for that second score.
从2月6日起，他们是否会去争取得到这位球员，将非常值得期待。
It will be fascinating to see if they go try to get that guy from now in February 6.
马里原则A是什么
What was the Maury principle of A
5%
5%.
我觉得他们有机会
I'd say they chance.
但关键是这样
But here's deal.
我觉得他们有资格
I'd say they qualify.
不
No.
按这个进度
On pace
能赢62场
for 62 wins.
他们有资格，但若将他们与去年的雷霆队相比，我认为他们更像前一年的雷霆队的心态。
Qualify But, Wonton, if you compare them to OKC last year, I think they are more in the mind frame of OKC the previous year.
你还记得，去年截止日前雷霆队做了什么吗？
Well, you remember, what did OKC do that previous year at the deadline?
他们点了早餐。
They ordered their breakfast.
是的，当时他们正在吃早餐，但他们交易得到了戈登·海沃德，这本质上是一笔为那个夏天腾出薪金空间的操作。
Yeah, they for, or they were finishing their breakfast at that point, but they traded for Gordon Hayward, which was essentially a move that cleared cap space that summer.
他们希望他能贡献一些力量。
They were hoping he was gonna contribute a little bit.
只是当时真的
It just was that was really
是的。
Yes.
但他表现平平，不过这笔交易确实为他们那个夏天签下以赛亚·哈滕斯坦腾出了薪金空间，而且他们还促成了一笔交易。
And he was a dud, but it it cleared the cap space that summer for them to go get Isaiah Hartenstein, and they actually facilitated a move.
他们把丹尼尔·加福德交易到了达拉斯。
They they facilitated Daniel Gafford to Dallas.
他们把选秀权给了独行侠，以换取
They gave him the Mavericks their pick then to get
一个互换权
a swap
在2028年。
in '28.
他们现在对此正暗自得意。
They're they're kinda rubbing their hands together about that right now.
我提到这一点，是因为活塞队最近刚去过达拉斯。
And I point this out because, you know, the Pistons came through Dallas recently.
我和他们的一些人聊过。
I talked to some of their folks.
他们现在的心态非常耐心且有条不紊。
They are very much in a patient, methodical mindset.
老实说。
Not gonna lie.
当我提到贾伦·杰克逊 Jr. 时，有些人眼中闪过一丝兴奋，他们非常善于抓住机会，但他们更多在说：‘我们有施罗德的特例可用。’
When I mentioned Jaren Jackson Junior, there's some people some, you know, you could see a little twinkle in their eyes, but so opportunistic, but my my they're they're talking more, hey, we've got that Schroeder exception.
我们可以用这个特例来促成一笔交易，获得另一个资产，比如一个首轮签之类的。
We could use that to facilitate a deal, you know, gets another asset, you know, probably like a first round pick or something like that.
他们更倾向于这种思路，而不是急着立刻补上最后一块拼图。
How did they they're more in that mindset than they are the finishing oh, gotta get the finishing piece now.
但其中一部分原因在于，他们想给现有球员机会，在季后赛中证明自己是谁，或者不是谁。
And part of the part of that though is they want to give the guys that they have a chance to prove who they are or who they're not come playoff time.
另一点是，他们还没和杰伦·杜兰完成续约。
The other thing is they didn't get an extension done with Jalen Duran.
我只想告诉你，他想要的，他都会得到，甚至可能更多。
I'm just here to tell you, what he wanted is what he's gonna get, and maybe a little bit more than that.
很快，他们的阵容成本将变得非常高，就像几年前的雷霆一样，他们的决策不仅关乎这次季后赛，更在于尽可能延长竞争力的窗口期。
This is gonna become a very expensive roster soon, so just like OKC a couple years ago, their decisions aren't just about this playoff run, but about trying to keep a window extended for as long as possible.
这都没问题，我并不是说他们需要把所有筹码都押上，现在就用所有选秀权去换东西。
That's all fine, and I'm not saying they need to empty the chamber to get something, like trade all the picks for something now.
我不是说他们非得这么做，但他们现在是31胜10负。
I'm not saying they gotta do that, but they're thirty one and ten.
这可不是俄克拉荷马城。
This is not Oklahoma City.
真的不是。
It's just not.
这是完全不同的情况。
It's a totally different situation.
雷霆队在过去十多年里一直是一支强队，只有一年半时间表现糟糕，然后就立刻重回巅峰。
And the Thunder had a great team for the better part of a decade, were bad for a year and a half, and then we're right back again.
活塞队已经陷入困境整整一代人了。
The Pistons have been mired in disaster land for a generation.
而且东部联盟也不同于西部。
And the Eastern Conference is also not the West.
这为他们提供了一条宽敞的通道。
This is a freeway of space for them to get in.
再说一遍，我不认为他们必须这么做，我并不是主张把所有选秀权都交易出去去换一个人。
And again, I don't think they've gotta I'm not advocating trade all their picks and get some guy.
我不是说他们非得这么做，但他们完全可以再引进一个可靠的外线得分手来填补空缺。
I'm not saying they gotta do that, but they could just get another reliable perimeter score to plug in there.
让我问你一个问题。
Let me ask you this.
如果你是特拉扬·兰登，他打电话给你征求意见，你会怎么想？
Would you if you're Trajan Langdon and he calls you Trajan's calling you for advice.
你觉得迈克尔·波特 Jr. 怎么样？
What do you think about Michael Porter junior?
好吧，我跟你说。
Well, I'll tell you.
我真正希望活塞队能得到的球员，虽然他们可能得不到，而且我不清楚他的健康状况如何，那就是凯里·欧文。
The guy that I really want the Pistons to get, who they probably can't get, and I don't know what his health status would be, the guy they need is Kyrie Irving.
我不知道凯里是否
I don't know if Kyrie
欧文可能成为戴利那样的球员。
Irving could be a Daley.
如果我是特拉扬·兰登，我会想知道凯里的健康状况如何，以及他上场的可能性有多大。
If I was Trajan Langdon, I would want to know where Kyrie's health is at and what the chances of him playing are.
这会是我做出的决定。
That's the call I'd be making.
迈克尔·波特会帮助他们，但我认为迈克尔·波特并不能真正改变他们的命运。
Michael Porter would help them, but I don't think Michael Porter is changing their destiny really.
但凯里·欧文，那个真正发挥出实力的凯里·欧文，如果能和卡德搭档，就像他曾经和卢卡搭档、和勒布朗搭档那样，作为一名被证明的季后赛得分手。
But Kyrie Irving, the realized version of Kyrie Irving playing next to Kade, like he played next to Luka, like he played next to LeBron, as a proven playoff scorer.
这完全正确。
That is exactly right.
我的意思是，这正是他们需要的人。
I mean, that is That's who they need.
关于凯里，他之所以能成为一名出色的得分后卫，像这种与勒布朗这样的球员搭档的双能卫，原因在于，我是说，我会
The thing about Kyrie is that the reason he's such a good off guard, like, combo guard playing off a guy like LeBron or I mean, I would Or
卢卡，他和他一起打进过总决赛的那个？
Luka, who he went to a finals with?
不，这就是他的角色。
No, that's his role.
他以前并不总是承认这是他的角色，但他现在已经四次打进总决赛，都是和这类球员搭档。
Well, he didn't always admit that that was his role, but he's now gotten to four finals playing alongside those types of guys.
是的，我只是，你知道的，听我说。
Yeah, I just, you know, listen.
你可以做出判断。
You can make calls.
我可以明确告诉你，独行侠队现在完全是为凯里而打。
I can just tell you the Mavericks very much are playing for Kyrie.
这只是一个概念。
It's just concept.
是的。
Yes.
我不是说这件事正在发生。
I'm not saying it's happening.
我喜欢那些可能没有凯里那么好，但符合这种类型的球员。
I like that who maybe aren't as good as Kyrie, but who fit that.
我不想深究勒布朗的案例，但你知道，勒布朗有两个61分的赛季，是和莫·威廉姆斯搭档的，因为虽然莫·威廉姆斯不是凯里·欧文，但他们是同一类型的球员。
That's like don't I wanna go down the LeBron rabbit hole, but that's one of the you know, LeBron had two sixty one seasons playing alongside Mo Williams because while Mo Williams isn't Kyrie Irving, he's they're the same type of player.
对。
Right.
而且，我想，让我戴上一个活塞队铁杆球迷的帽子。
And, you know, I guess, let me take a let me put a Pistons homer hat on.
我们能确定贾登·艾维不能成为某种版本的这种球员吗？
Are are we sure that Jaden Ivy can't be some version of that?
我们不确定，但我不知道是否
We're not sure, but I don't know if
到这个季后赛时，他就会成为那样的球员，这正是邦坦的观点。
he's gonna be that by this playoffs, which is what Bon Tem's point is.
另一点是，贾登·艾维即将成为受限制自由球员，我不确定他在那里的未来会怎样。
And the other thing is Jaden Ivey is about to be a restricted free agent, and I'm not sure what his future is there.
再说一遍，如果活塞队什么都不做，我也能理解。
And again, look, if the Pistons don't do anything, I'll understand it.
而且明确地说，我不认为他们应该做出仓促的交易，用两三个首轮签去换一个平庸的球员来凑合。
And to be clear, I do not think they should make some rash trade and trade two or three first for some mediocre player to fit in.
我提到凯里是有原因的。
I brought up Kyrie for a reason.
他签的是短期合同。
He's on a short term deal.
他的技术特点正是球队所需要的。
He's the exact skill set they need.
如果他健康且可被签下，他们能得到他，把他放进球队，我会说，我认为底特律能赢得总冠军。
If he was healthy and available and they could get him, you plug him into that team, I would tell you, I think Detroit could win the title.
我不敢打赌，但目前他们的进攻还不够好，我认为无法在面对顶级球队时赢得总冠军。
I wouldn't bet on it, but right now their offense isn't good enough to win the title, I don't think, against the elite teams.
是的。
Yeah.
半场进攻，他们需要在这方面提升。
Half court offense, they need to get better there.
我完全同意这一点。
I would certainly agree with that.
而且你看，我们提到活塞队，人们之所以关心活塞队，不仅因为他们的战绩，更因为他们如果想积极行动，是绝对可以做到的。
And look, we bring up the Pistons, and people are kinda wondering about the Pistons, not just because of where their record is, but if they want to be aggressive, they absolutely can.
他们拥有塔比斯·哈里斯即将到期的合同，数额相当不错。
They have Tobias Harris' expiring contract, which is a nice number.
你知道，贾登·艾维这样的年轻球员，其他球队会对他感兴趣，把他当作一个有潜力的交易目标。
You know, Jay Navies, the kind of guy who teams would be interested in a trade as a young player flyer.
你知道，他们还有一些类似这样的球员，而且未来还拥有选秀权。
You know, they've got some other guys like that, and they have their picks moving forward.
如果活塞队想积极行动，他们目前的处境非常有利。
Like, if the Pistons want to be aggressive, they are well positioned to do so.
我只是觉得，他们传达出的信息是，他们的态度并不是积极进取。
I just the messaging they've given out is that their mentality is not aggressiveness.
可能是机会主义，但不一定算积极进取。
Opportunistic, maybe not aggressiveness.
我认为这种态度是合理的，但我们现在已经是他们31胜10负的赛季中期了。
I think that mentality is reasonable, but we are now at mid season on their thirty one and ten.
他们表现得如此出色，至少已经打开了大门。
And they've been so good that they've at least opened the door.
也许他们会做成一笔像戈登·海沃德那样的交易。
And look, maybe it is a deal like the Gordon Hayward deal.
也许他们会得到一位不需要付出太大代价的资深球员，这位球员能很好地融入他们当前的阵容，并为他们在夏天做出更大动作留出空间，比如像勇士队或雷霆队那样，像齐亚·哈德森和亚历克斯·卡鲁索那样，最终推动雷霆队在下一年取得进步。
Maybe it is a veteran player that they can get for not a huge price that fits in where they're at, and it leaves them open to then make the moves in the summer to get there as Zea Hardenstein and Alex Caruso, like Warriors, like the Thunder did, that then propelled the Thunder forward the next year.
也许这就是会发生的情况，但我希望他们在截止日前做点什么来提升这支球队。
Maybe that's what happened, but I would just like them to do something between now and the deadline to improve this team.
因为是的，你说得对，他们可以采用更短的合同并吸纳薪资，也可以做其他安排，但像这样的赛季机会并不多，机会就摆在他们面前。
Because yeah, you're right, they could use the shorter thing and take in money, they could do different things, but you're only going to get so many chances to have this kind of season, and it's just sitting right there for them.
看看他们会怎么做，这将会非常有趣。
And it it will be fascinating to see what they do.
周二，加拿大Sportsnet上有一篇由迈克尔·格兰奇撰写的文章，我觉得非常有意思。他多年来一直通过印刷媒体和电视报道这支球队，资历非常深。
There was a very what I thought was a fascinating story in on Sportsnet out of Canada on Tuesday by Michael Grange, who's covered the team in printed on television for probably decades now, a long time.
比你的时间还长。
Longer than you
你大概不想承认吧，格兰奇。
probably want to admit, Grange.
是的。
Yeah.
可能吧。
Probably.
你高尔夫打得肯定没我好，温迪，这点我绝对没错。
Much better golfer than you, Wendy, and I Definitely.
我听说他打街头篮球可能比我强，你知道的，这
Hear I hear he's probably a better pickup basketball player than me, which, you know, that's
对吗？
Was that right?
我听说他球技不错。
I I hear he can hoop.
我觉得你现在髋关节和膝盖可能比他好。
I think you might have better hips and knees than him at this point.
那他就麻烦了。
So Then he's in trouble.
接着说。
Go on.
他讲了一个非常好的故事。
He had a very good he had a very good story.
我们引述了枫叶体育娱乐公司总裁兼首席执行官基思·佩利的一段非常有趣的言论。
We had a very interesting quote from Keith Pelly, who was the president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment.
让你知道一下，有一个庞大的实体拥有枫叶队、猛龙队、蓝鸟队、多伦多FC队、马利队（他们的次级联赛冰球队），可能还有其他球队。
Just so you know, like, there's this one giant entity that owns the Maple Leafs, the Raptors, the Blue Jays, the Toronto FC, the Marley's, their minor league hockey team, probably other stuff.
哦，还有Argonauts队，我想它们也都属于同一个集团。
Oh, the Argonauts, I think they all owned by the same thing.
多年来，这些球队主要由两家大型有线电视公司拥有。
And for years, they were owned by two giant cable companies for the most part.
今年晚些时候，所有这些都将统一归入罗杰斯公司旗下，这家公司由埃德·罗杰斯掌管，他将成为新的主席。
And later this year, it will all come under one umbrella, the Rogers Corporation, which is run by this guy, Ed Rogers, who will be the new governor.
目前，担任董事会主席的是拉里·塔内鲍姆。
Right now, there's Larry Tanenbaum, who's actually the chairman of the board of governors.
他长期担任董事会成员。
He's a long time board of governors.
这只是些背景信息。
That's just housekeeping.
重点是，多伦多正在经历一场变革。
The point there's transition happening in Toronto.
作为这一过渡的一部分，马赛·乌杰里去年被解雇，而他们的长期总经理博比·韦伯斯特被提升为篮球运营主管。
And as part of that transition, Masai Ujiri was let go last year, and Bobby Webster, their longtime general manager, was promoted to being the head of basketball operations.
我们之所以提到这些，是因为迈克尔·格兰奇发布的故事非常相关，其核心是基思·佩利公开发表了言论——这在二月临近交易截止日时并不常见。
The reason we say all this is that the point of this story that Michael Grange put out, which is very relevant, is that Keith Pelly went on the record, which is not something you see normally in February near the trade deadline.
他说，顺便提一下，之前流传的一个说法——迈克尔也提到了这一点——确实是事实。
And he said By the way, one of the whispers that had and Michael refers to this is absolutely true.
你笑什么？
What are you laughing at?
你先说引语，我们再把它放在上下文中理解。
Get to the quote and then we'll put it in context.
我刚才是想铺垫一下。
I tried to set it up.
其中一个传言是，博比·韦伯斯特的合同很短，他承受着改善阵容的压力，而这将在交易截止日前成为一个关键因素。
One of the whispers is that Bobby Webster was on a was on a short contract and that he was under some pressure to improve the roster and that that was gonna be a factor with the trade deadline.
所以，综合以上所有情况，佩利说：'关于交易截止日或博比·韦伯斯特的合同，没有任何压力。'
So all that being said, quote, There is no pressure regarding the trade deadline or Bobby Webster's contract, said Pelli.
他对此完全清楚。
He is 100 aware of that.
球队正朝着正确的方向前进，我相信鲍比会在恰当的时候做出正确的决策，让我们变得更好。
The team is moving in the right direction, and I'm convinced Bobby will make the right moves at the right time to make us better.
在鲍比的领导下，这支球队将有能力争夺总冠军。
This team under Bobby's direction will contend for championships.
他还表示，他们正在商谈一份续约合同。
He also said that they were working on a contract extension.
这之所以相关，是因为猛龙队一直与贾·莫兰特联系在一起，也与其他一些名字有关联。
The reason that is relevant Bon Temps, is because the Raptors have been connected to Ja Moran, had been connected to some other names.
坦白说，我听说他们在评估球员价值时比平均水平更加积极。
And frankly, I have heard they've been sort of more aggressive than average in looking for the value of their players.
我也怀疑，他现在公开发表言论，是为了遏制正在联盟中流传的这个谣言。
And I also suspect that going on the record right now was an effort to make sure that that rumor that was going through the league was tamped down.
所以我认为这件事已经解决了。
So I've considered that done.
我们每天都不会看到从观众席或一位在任的首席执行官公开表态这种情况。
We don't see this every day from the rafters or from a sitting CEO all going on the record.
是的。
Yeah.
另外，有一件事务需要说明。
And just for one piece of housekeeping.
所以，蓝鸟队与其他球队不同，但现在已经全部被收购了。
So the the Blue Jays are separate from the rest of that, but they're now all owned.
这之所以相关，是因为他们长期以来一直由罗杰斯公司拥有。
The reason it's relevant is they were they've been owned by Rogers for a long time.
在过去一年半的时间里，是的。
And over the past year and a half Yeah.
他们不属于枫叶体育娱乐公司，但拥有者相同。
They're not part of Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment, but they're same owners.
但在过去一年半里，罗杰斯公司已将其在枫叶体育娱乐公司的持股进行了整合。
But over the past year and a half, Rogers has consolidated its holdings in MLSE.
今年晚些时候，他们基本上将完全拥有MLSE，无论从技术上是否属于同一实体，所有资产都将归属于同一个集团。
And later this year, well, basically own all of MLSE, and then they will be whether they're technically part of it or not, it's all gonna be under the same group.
正如你所说，所有这些变化都发生在猛龙队身上。
And that's where, as you said, all these changes have happened with the Raptors.
伊吉里女士已经离职。
Miss Ijiri is out.
他们今年夏天不得不进行搜寻。
They had to search this summer.
他们表示，博比·韦伯斯特将负责球队。
They said Bobby Webster is gonna run the team.
现在球队开局表现良好。
Now the team is off to a good start.
他们目前在东部排名第四，仅落后尼克斯队半场，位列第三。
They're currently fourth in the East right now, half game behind the Knicks and third.
外界一直有传闻称他们有意采取一些行动。
There has been chatter about them being interested in doing stuff.
正如我们之前讨论的，猛龙队与其他许多球队（比如亚特兰大、金州或迈阿密等我们曾提及的球队）的不同之处在于，他们有很多长期合同即将到期。
As we've talked about, the thing that's different about the Raptors and a lot of these other teams, whether it's Atlanta or Golden State or Miami, any of these other teams we've talked about in terms of what they could potentially do is they have a lot of contracts going out a long time.
他们在资金上并不轻松自由。
They're not set up to be free and clear money wise.
因此，对我来说，他们选择交易得到安东尼·戴维斯，比其他一些球队更合理。
So it did make more sense to me for them to say, trade for Anthony Davis than some of these other teams.
或者，如果你对贾·莫兰特感兴趣，至少可以考虑一下贾·莫兰特的可能性，尽管我原本并不认为他们会是他的有力竞争者。
Or if you're interested in Job Morant, to at least entertain the idea of Job Morant, though I had not thought they were much of a suitor ultimately for him either.
而且，你说得对。
And yeah, you're right.
有趣的是，他们偏偏在这个时候公开了这些说法，尤其是在MLSE整体组织及其内部事务正面临多重压力的背景下。
It is interesting that they came out and said this, particularly in light of all of these things that are coming to a head with the organization and with the larger organization of MLSE.
我认为，在截止日期前，猛龙队是非常值得关注的球队，因为正如我们讨论的，如果他们有意做出调整，他们确实有动力去行动。
And I do think the Raptors are an interesting team to watch between now and the deadline, because as we've talked about, if they are interested in making moves, they have some incentive to make moves.
就像我们刚刚谈到的底特律队一样，东部联盟现在机会多多。
And like we just got talked about with Detroit, the East is wide open.
所以如果你是多伦多，能在截止日前引进一名有影响力的球员，谁又能说猛龙队不能在东部杀出一条路呢？
So if you're Toronto and you can add an impact player between now and the deadline, who's to say the Raptors can't make a run-in the East?
我的意思是，现在我不会坐在这里去质疑这些球队，毕竟争冠球队的整体实力都存在明显缺陷。
Like, I'm not gonna sit here and really talk against any of these teams at this point with how flawed the group of contenders are.
是的。
Yeah.
猛龙队确实存在这样的机会。
And there is certainly opportunity there for the raptors.
他们已经为自己做好了定位。
They've positioned themselves.
你知道，他们打得足够好，以至于你不得不承认这一点。
You know, they've played well enough to where you have to acknowledge that's the case.
联盟中曾有传言，说鲍比·韦伯斯特面临着必须立即赢球、用成绩证明自己的压力。
There was talk around the league about there being win now pressure and prove it type of pressure on Bobby Webster.
而事实上，你却看到了一段公开声明，明确表明情况并非如此。
The fact that you have an on the record quote saying very much that is not the case.
我们相信。
We believe.
本质上，这句话说的是：我们相信鲍比·韦伯斯特。
Essentially, the quote says, We believe in Bobby Webster.
他会在这里待上一段时间。
He's gonna be here for a while.
所以这些流言蜚语就消散了。
So that eliminates those whispers.
话虽如此，他的合同确实很短。
That said, he does have a very short contract.
对，但是当
Right, but when
他所做的就是行动，而非空谈。
he There he do isn't actions words.
是的，这很公平。
Yeah, that's fair.
这很公平。
That's fair.
但并不是说我不认为这是真的。
But not that I'm not that I'm saying it's not true.
我只是想指出这一点，你知道的。
I'm just saying that, you know, I'm just pointing that out.
说出口并把自己的名字附上，这是一个相当重要的举动。
It's a it's a pretty significant step to say, attach my name to this.
我同意。
I agree.
你知道吗？
You know?
知道那些流言在联盟中流传。
Knowing those whispers are going around the league.
猛龙队想要升级的问题在于，他们试图通过使用没人想要的合同来实现升级。
Now the problem with the raptors trying to upgrade is they're trying to upgrade by using contracts that people don't want.
你知道吗，他们其他人都认为另一个非常有趣的引述来自一个匿名消息源，关于他们是否能成为约翰·莫兰特那样的球队，答案只有一个字：不。
You know, they're all the other I thought the other very interesting quote, this was from an anonymous source, but it was a one word quote in terms of whether they could be a John Morant team, and it was no.
现在情况没那么明确了。
Now it wasn't as clear.
各位，当我这么说‘各位’的时候，我指的是我们的听众，包括男生和女生。
Guys, I'll just when I say guys, I'm talking to our listeners, guys and girls.
作为媒体人，我们在报道联盟时，很难找到对贾有兴趣的球队。
We're having difficulty as media people cover the league finding a team that's interested in Jah.
也许这是因为他们不想让人觉得他们对贾感兴趣只是为了谈判筹码，但我们确实很难找到。
Now maybe that's because they don't wanna make it sound like they're interested in Jah for bargaining purposes, but we're having a difficult time.
相信我。
Trust me.
我们都在努力处理这件事。
We're all working on it.
对吧？
Right?
正如当时所讨论的，特雷·杨之所以有一个最心仪的下家，是因为真正感兴趣的球队并不多。
As talked about at the time, there's a reason that Trae Young had one top preferred destination, and that's because there weren't a lot of And teams
贾宣布他最想去的地方是孟菲斯，他这么说可能有他的理由。
Jah declared his preferred destination as Memphis, which he may have a reason for saying that.
是的。
Right.
而且听好了，关于贾缺乏兴趣这件事一点都不会让人意外，因为我们已经谈论这个问题好几个月了。
And and listen, none of this is a surprise in terms of the lack of interest in Jah because we've been talking about that for months.
但最大的悬念在于，安东尼·戴维斯的交易可能性仍然悬而未决。
But a grandest story left the AD possibility more open ended.
我可以明确告诉你，我不认为这会是一笔两队交易。
I can just tell you, I don't see that being a two team trade.
因为，再说一遍，如果独行侠在交易安东尼·戴维斯，他们希望甩掉薪资。
Because, again, the Mavericks, if they're training Anthony Davis, they want to shed salary.
他们希望保持灵活性，避免承担巨额奢侈税。
They want to position themselves to have some flexibility and not a massive luxury tax.
是的。
Right.
这就是猛龙队一直在市场上寻找交易的原因之一，因为他们有一些球员签了大合同，但表现却未能匹配合同价值。
This is one of the reasons the raptors have been in the market is because they have some players on big contracts that maybe aren't delivering on the big contracts.
所以，他们的想法是用一个大合同球员去换另一个大合同球员。
And so the idea would be you can move your big contracts for another big contract.
但如今你真正想要的是，拥有一个表现优异的大合同球员是可以接受的。
But, you know, what you're looking for these days is you're it's okay to have a big contract player who's performing.
如果你有一个表现不佳的大合同球员，你希望他的合同是短期的。
If you have a big contract player that's not performing, you want them on a short deal.
这可能也是猛龙队至今未能达成交易的原因之一。
And that's it's and it's probably one of the reasons why the raptors maybe haven't been able to do a deal.
当然，听起来他们试图表现得毫不在意，但实际上他们一直在打电话联系其他球队。
And, of course, it sounds like they're trying to act like they don't care, but they have been making calls.
所以
So
至于皮特尔的情况，不仅他的合同不好，背部也有问题。
Well, in the case of Pirtle, it's not it's also that he has a it's a bad contract and a bad back.
这是个糟糕的组合。
That's a bad combination.
去年夏天他们开出的那份超过一亿美元的合同，现在看来并不理想。
Well, that contract over a $100,000,000 is that they gave out last summer is not looking too great right now.
不过，说到全明星投票，我觉得有几件事挺有意思，因为投票结果分成了球迷票、球员票和媒体票。
But, hey, just on the all star voting, I thought it was a couple of interesting things because they broke out the fan vote, which we already knew, the player vote, and the media vote.
斯蒂芬·库里在媒体票中排名第六。
Steph Curry with sixth in the media vote.
我们现在是讨厌斯蒂芬·库里了吗？
Do we hate Steph Curry now?
没有。
No.
只是更喜欢安东尼·爱德华兹罢了。
Just love Anthony Edwards.
是的
Yeah.
安东尼·爱德华兹在粉丝投票中排名第四。
Ant head was fourth.
丹尼·阿维亚在球员投票中排名第十，但由于媒体和球迷的投票，总票数超过了杜兰特和勒布朗。
Denny Avia, tenth amongst players, but finished ahead of both Durant and LeBron in total voting because of the media and the fans.
我觉得还有一些球员投票挺有意思的，不是那种搞笑的、天啊他们投了自己这种，而是真正的球员投票。
I thought a couple other player votes were interesting, and and not the kind of humorous, oh my gosh, these guys voted for themselves type things, the one player vote.
我觉得卢卡在西部球员投票中排名第六，怀比排名第七，这挺有意思的。
I thought Luca finishing sixth and Wimby finishing seventh in the West was interesting.
在球员投票中。
Amongst the player votes.
在球员投票中。
Amongst the player votes.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得
Think that
很有趣。
was interesting.
丹尼·阿维亚排名第十。
Deni Avia finishing tenth.
这让我觉得，你知道，约基奇就是其中之一。
That leads me to believe that, you know I mean, Jokic was one.
所以，但你知道，这让我觉得他们更倾向于投给美国人。
So but, you know, it leads me to believe that they vote for Americans.
我认为球员们至今仍对欧洲球员存在一些抵触情绪，只是这种情绪已经超出了限度。
I think there is still an anti euro sentiment among players until it's just beyond it.
就像你知道的，字母哥直到在总决赛决胜战中拿到十五分十五篮板时才摆脱了这种偏见。
Like, you know, Giannis dealt with it until he had fifteen fifteen in in the finals clincher.
Joker直到赢得冠军才克服了这些。
Joker Joker dealt with it until, you know, he won championship.
我真的认为，直到欧洲球员赢得冠军之前，这仍然是一个因素。
I really do think it's something that that European still is still a factor until they win a championship.
此外，卢克和温比都获得了大量关注。
Plus, Luke has gotten so much hype and Wimby's gotten so much hype.
我认为这其中引发了一些反弹。
I think there's a bit of a pushback against that among
关于丹尼·阿维，我觉得球员们对他很不满，因为他虽然打法非常强硬，却总能获得大量罚球，不过普拉策们最近表现不错。
in the case of Danny Avi, I think it irritates players how he, you know, gets a lot of free throws even though he plays very physically, but Placers have been playing well.
我想我们很快就会谈到他们。
We'll be talking about them, I think, soon.
但好吧。
But alright.
非常感谢我们所有的制作团队。
Thank you so much to all of our producers.
感谢Bon Temps。
Thank you to Bon Temps.
感谢McMahon。
Thank you to McMahon.
感谢观看和收听Hoop Collective。
Thank you for watching and listening to the hoop collective.
我们本周晚些时候再聊。
We'll talk to you later this week.
再见，Migos。
Adios, Migos.
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