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你好，欢迎回到《建筑暖通空调科学播客》。
Hello, and welcome back to the Building HVAC Science Podcast.
我想你们现在已经了解我们的目标了：帮助暖通空调和建筑性能领域的专业人士提升技能、增长知识，让他们能更好地为现有客户服务，而这两个领域很多时候是交叉的。
I think you know our goal by now, to help creep better, more knowledgeable HVAC and building performance pros and help them execute better for their customers that they have and a lot of times the two areas kind of cross over.
在今天的节目中，我有机会与布兰登·赫尔梅林交谈。
In today's episode, I get a chance to speak with Brendan Hermelin.
他是Thalo Labs的首席执行官兼创始人，他的职业轨迹从NASA的国防领域，到自动驾驶汽车，最终进入暖通空调行业。
He's the CEO and founder of Thalo Labs and he traces a zigzag path from NASA in defense to self driving cars then into HVAC.
他的核心主线是高可靠性传感与预测性诊断。
His through line, high reliability sensing and prognostics.
他过去所使用的技术，如今可以结合当前的技术变革，应用到暖通空调领域。
What he's used in his past can be used now and applied to HVAC with the technology changes that are happening.
简单来说，Thalo的产品旨在为每一台热泵配备一部手机。
And simply put, Thalo's product aims to give every heat pump a cell phone.
他开发了一款小巧、非侵入式的模块，可安装在VRF或分体式机组内部，未来还可用于更大规模的系统，用于测量电力和管道温度，并通过蜂窝网络回传数据，提前发现系统问题，如冷媒不足、泄漏、电力质量异常等，避免它们演变成紧急报修。
He has a small non invasive module that snaps inside of VRFs or splits and eventually larger plants and measures power and line temperatures, backhauls that information via cellular and flags problems in the system, undercharge, leaks, power quality issues, things like that before they become emergency calls.
这是设备管理，而不是完整的楼宇管理，但它轻量级、易于安装，专为技术人员设计，并支持API集成，如技术人员或每周汇总。
It's equipment management, not full building management, but it's a lightweight, easy to install, built for techs and friendly to API integrations such as techs or even weekly roll ups.
布伦丹认为，市场已经做好了准备。
Brendan argues that the market is really ready.
大多数商业建筑仍缺乏楼宇管理系统。
Most commercial buildings still lack BMS.
Wi-Fi对于关键遥测数据来说不够稳定。
WiFi is fragile for critical telemetry.
这些数据以及传感器和云服务的经济性已经真正转向有利于这一方向。
This data and the economics of sensors and cloud have really flipped in favor of this.
Thalo避免接触制冷剂回路，优先考虑快速安装（10到30分钟）、QR位置标签，甚至提供‘查找此设备’功能来定位正确的屋顶机组。
Thalo avoids tapping the refrigerant loop and prioritizes fast installs, ten to thirty minutes QR location tagging, and even buzz this unit feature to find the right rooftop box.
早期的现场数据非常令人警醒。
Early field data is very sobering.
他发现有40%的热泵存在制冷剂不足或泄漏，导致频繁回访、压缩机故障、能源浪费和客户不满。
He's seen 40% of heat pumps undercharged or leaking, driving callbacks, compressor failures, energy waste, and dissatisfied customers.
他向承包商提出的方案是将突发维修的混乱转变为计划性维护，白标化节能报告，并通过数据驱动的排队系统加快新技术人员的培训。
His pitch to contractors turned break fix chaos into planned maintenance, white label the savings report, and train new techs faster with data driven queues.
至于名字Thalo，它源自深空蓝，以此致敬通过技术让画面更清晰的理念。
And the name Salo, it comes from the deep sky blue, which is an homage to adding tech to make the picture clearer.
Brendan的LinkedIn链接在备注中。
Brendan's LinkedIn is in the notes.
网站链接在备注中。
Website link is in the notes.
如果这让你有丝毫兴趣，我建议你尽快联系他。
If this interests you in the least bit, I suggest you get in touch.
但现在，让我们进入正题，Brendan Herrlin将谈论如何为每台热泵配备一部手机，实现Thalo Labs的预测性暖通空调。
But let's get in this conversation now where Brendan Herrlin talks about giving every heat pump a cell phone, predictive HVAC with Thalo Labs.
欢迎回到《建筑暖通空调科学播客》。
Welcome back to the Building HVAC Science Podcast.
今天又是我，Elk Liss，不过没关系。
I am Elk Liss again today, but that's okay.
他正在享受应得的假期。
He's getting a well deserved vacation.
但我有一位新客人，我一个多月前认识的布伦丹·赫梅林。
But I do have a new person, a guest that I met just over a month ago, Brendan Hermelin.
早上好。
Good morning.
早上好，比尔。
Good morning, Bill.
很高兴能上这个播客。
Pleasure to be on podcast.
谢谢您邀请我来。
Thanks for having me here.
嗯。
Yeah.
感谢你的到来。
Thank you for coming along.
你有一些有趣的东西。
You got some interesting things.
我早在九月初在德克萨斯州奥斯汀的NCI峰会上见过你，当时你来和承包商讨论一个新产品。
I've met you at the NCI summit back in Austin, Texas since early September, and you had come to talk with contractors about a new product.
我觉得这是个非常好的想法。
I think that is such a great idea.
更多的公司应该这么做。
More companies should do that.
如果你想要为使用者打造一个工具，最好还是先和他们聊聊，听听他们的看法。
It seems like if you want to build a tool for people who are gonna use it, you should probably talk to them and get their take on it.
但首先，你能给我们讲讲你的背景以及你目前在做什么吗？
But first, can you give us some background on where you've come from and what you're doing right now?
我们可以先谈到这一点。
We can get to that point.
但你之前是从哪里来的？
But where did you come from?
是什么让你走上了这个产品的道路？
What kinda led you to this product?
嗯。
Yeah.
我很乐意介绍一下我自己以及我们公司的发展历程。
I'm happy to give a little background on myself and also where we've come as a company.
我走上这条道路的过程相当曲折，但最终我为暖通空调领域以及相关从业人员带来了真正有趣的技术。
So I've had a circuitous route to delivering I think, really interesting technologies for HVAC and the people working in HVAC.
我最初来自航空航天与国防领域，职业生涯的早期在NASA工作，参与太空任务，主要关注那些会排放温室气体的项目。
I actually came out of aerospace and defense, spent the first part of my career working at NASA on space missions, primarily worrying about things that would emit greenhouse gases, actually.
其中一些温室气体排放源在地球上，但很多并不在地球上。
Some of those are on Earth and but a lot of them are not.
例如，彗星和月球在某些情况下实际上会释放相当多的温室气体。
For example, comets and the moon, in some cases, actually emit quite a bunch of greenhouse gases.
这一直让我感到有趣，因为在我职业生涯的不同阶段，我始终意识到建筑环境所排放的温室气体数量有多么巨大。
It was always interesting to me because as I went through different portions of my career, I was quite aware of just how much greenhouse gases were being emitted by the built environment.
在我看来，这是温室气体的最大单一来源。
In my estimation, it's the single largest source of greenhouse gases.
但同时，我们完全知道如何应对这些问题。
But also that we totally know how to deal with those problems.
事实上，在国防和航空航天领域，顶级1%的建筑几乎从不出现太多泄漏问题，因为我们注重预防性维护和预测性工具。
And in fact, the top 1% of buildings in in defense and aerospace, we never really have that many problems with leakage because we go after preventative maintenance and prognostic tools.
当你审视所有这些工具集时，你会问：为什么这些技术没有普及开来？
When you look at all those tool sets, you say, why aren't these everywhere?
我认为主要原因在于它们成本高昂，安装起来也很麻烦。
And I think the main answer is they cost a lot and it's kind of a pain to install.
因此，对于我们Thalo Labs来说，核心理念就是如何将这些存在于不同行业和建筑层级顶端（如世界上的A级建筑）的先进技术，降低其规模和成本，使其能够广泛部署。
So really the fundamental for us here at Thalo Labs has been how do we take these really cool technologies that exist at the upper echelons of different industries and different building levels, the class a's in the world, and bring them down in scale and cost so that you can deploy them everywhere.
过去几年，我们一直专注于这一点。
And that's really what we've been focusing on for the last few years.
因此，当我们推出一款产品时——我相信我们稍后会谈到——能够主动预测热泵和制冷剂冷却系统中的泄漏和制冷剂不足问题。
And so doing when, for example, we have a product, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about, where we can actively predict and get ahead of leakage and undercharge problems on heat pumps and refrigerant based cooling.
这看起来和我们在国防领域研究冷却回路时所做的工作非常相似。
And that looks an awful lot like some of the work that we had done looking at coolant loops in defense.
现在成本低得多，部署也容易得多，但技术上却非常非常相似。
So heck of a lot cheaper now and a lot easier to deploy, but it's very, very similar in terms of technology.
因此，我们在Thalo所做的就是以多种方式普及这些存在于高端领域的精彩技术，使其能够被广泛应用。
So that's what we do here at Thalo is we try to democratize in many ways all this really cool technology that exists at the upper echelons and make it deployable.
我们发现，要实现最佳效果，与其直接向建筑方销售，不如深度支持暖通空调机械团队。
And the way that we have found this to work the best is rather than trying to sell directly to buildings, we actually are deeply invested in supporting HVAC mechanical groups directly.
我们认为，在这个领域，更快更好地推进的方式是为那些真正从事实际工作的人提供优秀的工具，让他们的工作更轻松，从而让我们能够积极改善设施的运行效率。
And we think that that's actually the way to go faster and better in this world is to make really good tools for the people who are actively actually doing all the work so that their lives get easier, and therefore, we get to aggressively improve how a fact runs.
非常好。
Very good.
告诉我你认为理想的客户
Tell me about what you think the ideal customer
以及理想的设施或设备是什么。
and the ideal facility or or equipment would be.
我认为这两点都有助于我们的听众更清晰地理解这一点。
Both of those points, I think, because it'll help our listeners narrow into this.
一般来说，我们的理想客户是那些大量安装制冷剂设备的暖通空调机械团队，无论是像VRV那样的热泵，还是分体式机组，一直到大型冷水机组系统。
In general, we find that our ideal customers are HVAC mechanical groups that do a lot of installation of refrigerant based equipment, whether those are heat pumps like VRFs or split units all the way through large chiller plants.
在某些情况下，我们也会帮助处理燃烧设备。
And in some cases, we help out on combustion assets as well.
而这些团队通常属于顶级梯队。
And those groups that are worrying about, they usually are in the top tier.
他们通常非常关注维护合同，尤其是在我们主要开展业务的商业领域。
They usually are the ones who have a lot of concern around maintenance contracts, particularly on the commercial side where we primarily do our work.
我们与一些主要从事住宅业务的团队有合作，但通常是在安装环节。
We are partnered with some who do significant amounts of residential work, but usually on the installation side.
这种理想客户群体中有很多人实际上在从事这项工作，而且大多数人都发现自己非常忙碌。
That ideal phenotype is there's a lot of people who are actually doing that, and most of them are finding that they're quite busy.
他们可能无法及时应对所有服务请求，而这些请求说到底还是有些过时的。
They won't be able necessarily to keep up with all the service calls, which frankly are kind of antiquated.
比如，我们目前的泄漏检测系统，大多数时候是客户说这里太热了。
Like, our current leak detection system most of the time is the customer saying it's hot in here.
过来修一下这个东西。
Come out and fix this thing.
如果没有技术手段，很难提前发现问题。
That's hard to get ahead of without technology.
我们还发现，那些非常关注行业人才引进与培养的人，因为如果你能加入技术层面，就能确保并加快新技术人员的成长进程，让他们更有依据、更可靠地提升技能。
We also find that if people who really, really care about the trading and the development of new talent who are coming into the industry because if you can add a technical layer, then you can ensure and, I think, ramp those new technicians up through the process faster and with more assurance and data.
我们通常关注的就是这类人，也就是那些非常重视这一点的暖通机械团队。
Those are the types of people who we tend to focus on, these HVAC mechanical groups who really care about this.
从建筑角度来看，是的，我们主要聚焦于商业领域，因为大型制冷设备系统天然需要高度关注，保持其正常运行至关重要。
From a building standpoint, yeah, we do tend to focus on commercial just because there's such a natural pull to these large refrigerant based systems where keeping it up is really mission critical.
你可能不会想到那台维持电梯间、机房凉爽的暖通设备，但这些设备其实非常关键。
You might not think about that HVAC unit that's keeping the elevator room, mechanical room cool, but that's pretty critical pieces of equipment.
你可能不会花一百万美元去安装一个楼宇自控系统来解决它，但如果你能这么做，大概率会愿意。
And maybe you'd never put a million dollar BMS system in there to fix it, but you probably would if you could.
这些正是我们希望关注的地方。
Those are the places we like to focus on.
你提到了BMS系统，也就是建筑管理系统。
So you mentioned BMS systems, so building management system.
那更像是一个综合能源管理系统，但你们提到成本，所以这是一个不同的切入点。
So that would be more of a comprehensive energy management system, but this allows and you said cost, so a different entry point in terms of that.
但与BMS相比，信息的质量或传递方式如何呢？
But how about the quality or the way information is delivered compared to BMS?
我们有时会被问到，这是否类似于BMS？
We are sometimes asked, is this like a BMS?
答案是否定的。
And the answer is not really.
我们实际上更倾向于将我们的工具视为设备管理系统，关注热泵、空调等设备实际运行的基本情况。
We actually think of our tools much more like equipment management, as an equipment management system, where you're looking at the fundamentals of actually how heat pumps and ACs and how are they actually running in real time.
一个优秀的建筑管理系统非常出色，已被反复证明，若能更高效地运营建筑，将大幅节省成本。
A great building management system is fantastic and has been shown repeatedly to be a huge cost saver if you can operate your building more efficiently.
但安装它们确实非常具有挑战性。
But they are really challenging to install them.
这正是DMS系统普及率很低的原因之一。
That's one of the reasons that pervasiveness of DMS systems is actually pretty low.
我们总部设在纽约，如果你往窗外看，会发现这里有很多大型建筑，你可能会以为每栋楼都有BMS，但事实并非如此。
We're based here in New York, and if you look outside, we get a lot of big buildings, and you say, oh, every building has a BMS, and that's not accurate.
事实上，绝大多数建筑都没有。
Most, in fact, the vast majority of buildings don't.
即使在纽约市，我们位于中城的办公室里，我就是建筑管理系统。
Even in New York City, in our office here in Midtown, I'm the building management system.
到了晚上，当所有人都离开后，他们会去关闭断路器，就像我们做的那样。
At night, and when everyone leaves, they go and click off the breakers as we do.
因此，我们认为在每台设备上安装建筑管理系统是一个非常困难的障碍，这也是它难以被接受的原因之一。
So we think that the idea of trying to install building management systems on every piece of equipment is a very, very difficult barrier, and that's one of the reasons it's hard to accept.
我记得最后一次看到的数据是，大约13%的规模较小的商业建筑配备了建筑管理系统。
I think the number I last saw was about 13% of commercial buildings under a certain size have building management systems.
非常低。
Very low.
那么，我们如何让另外85%的建筑上线，并实现预防性管理呢？
So how do we get those other 85% of the buildings online and in a way that can be preventatively realized?
我们认为，答案是：与其试图铺设固定电话线路，不如直接在各个地方安装。
We think that the answer is, well, do you just like, instead of trying to give landlines, put landlines in places.
给每台热泵配一部手机，让它们能主动打电话回来。
Just give every heat pump a cell phone and have a call home.
我们的想法是，因为过去几年技术已经取得了巨大进步。
And that was our take is because the technology has developed so much just in the last few years.
传感技术变得非常非常先进，而且价格也很低廉。
The sensing has gotten really, really good and also quite inexpensive.
至于远程连接，如果你需要使用蜂窝网络回传，现在的性能比以往任何时候都好，成本也低得多。
The teleconnection so if you need to do cellular backhaul, it's actually so much better than it's ever been and it's quite cost effective.
此外，你还可以在云端以极低的成本实现一些功能——过去楼宇管理系统需要大量传感器、大量计算设备和大量六类网线布线，而现在这些都可以无线完成，几分钟内安装完毕，资本投入却少得多。
And then on top of it, you can start to do some stuff in the cloud in a very, very cost competitive way where you can basically do what building management systems used to need a bunch of sensors to do and a bunch of compute and a bunch of category six wire spread out effectively wirelessly and installed in just a few minutes for a lot less capital.
这正是我们认为的，某种程度上，下一代演进将是：如何跳过固定电话线？
That's kind of what we think is, like, this next evolution in many ways will be, how do I leapfrog the landlines?
相反，直接就这样做。
Instead, just yeah.
我喜欢这种说法：给每个热泵都配一部手机，让它能打电话回家。
I like that phrasing of giving every heat pump a cell phone to call home.
我们真应该尽快实现这一点。
Boy, we should get there as soon as possible.
你提到了安装。
You mentioned installation.
我想逐一讨论安装、数据收集、数据传输和仪表盘这几个主题。
I wanted to go through the topics of installation, data collection, data delivery, and then dashboard.
这四个主要模块。
So those four major blocks.
你能为我们逐一讲解一下吗？
Can you talk us through those?
是的。
Yes.
我想，这四个‘B’是这一领域的巅峰。
The four b's, I guess, is the pinnacle of this.
因此，多年来人们已经尝试过许多方法来获取这些数据。
So, obviously, there have been many attempts to figure out how to get this data throughout the years.
我们绝不pretend自己是第一个尝试这样做的人。
We don't pretend to be the first ones to attempt this at all.
但我们确实认为，近年来单位成本的技术能力发生了翻天覆地的变化。
We do think that there has been a sea change in terms of the technical capabilities per unit cost that has really been enabled actually in just the last few years.
虽然我最初的工作主要集中在航空、国防这类领域，那里成本通常并不是主要驱动因素。
So while my original work was really in these aero, defense y kind of spaces where cost is actually not that much of a driver for most of this.
最近，我实际上在多家自动驾驶公司工作过，包括Waymo和通用汽车的Cruise。
Most recently, I actually was working at multiple self driving car companies, so both both at Waymo and at GM Cruise.
我负责开发使汽车成为机器人的硬件，无论是摄像头、雷达、激光雷达系统、电信设备、回传链路、计算单元还是芯片方案。
I was responsible for developing the hardware that would make the cars robots, whether that was the cameras, the radars, the LIDAR systems, the telecommunications, the backhaul, the compute, the silicon programs.
而自主性带来的进步，真正催生了我所认为的这个新时代——将机器人无处不在地部署，比如在每台热泵上安装小型智能机器人。
And the advances that came out of autonomy has really given birth to what I consider this new era of putting robots everywhere, where you can actually put, like, little smart robots on every one of your heat pumps in.
它是个非常棒的技术人员助手，因为它能全天候24小时盯着设备运行。
It's a pretty good technician's helper because it's just staring at it all the time twenty four hours a day.
如果你能以足够低的成本实现这一点，就能在未来为所有人节省大量麻烦、头痛和金钱。
And if you can do that for a low enough cost, then it actually just saves everybody a bunch of pain, headaches, and money later on.
因此，在安装方面，我们采取的思路是：如何让暖通空调团队的安装变得尽可能简单？
So in terms of the install side effects, we've taken an approach as like how easy can we make the install for the HVAC groups?
这绝不能成为一种负担。
This can't be a pain.
事实上，我一直对需要如此多工具进行组装感到惊讶。
And indeed, I've always been surprised by how much assembly required for tools.
如果你去查看暖通空调的安装说明，会发现你需要从这里拿这个，从那里拿那个，再从别处拿这个。
If you go to HR, you see, well, you need this from here and this from here and this from here.
真是让人头疼不已。
It's like, boy, what a pain in the butt.
那些有这种麻烦的人，很可能也拥有一部不错的手机，并且之前有过很好的用户体验。
And those same people who have that pain in the butt, they probably have a pretty nice phone, and they've had a very good user experience before.
所以我不明白，为什么我们不能为新工具也提供良好的用户体验。
So I don't know why we couldn't deliver them a good user experience with new tools as well.
因此，在实际安装方面，我们尽量在打开箱子后一次性完成。
So the delivery in terms of the actual installation, we try to do it once the boxes are open.
通常，你可以在半小时内完成安装。
Usually, you can get it in in less than half an hour.
通常，如果你熟练的话，十分钟以内就能搞定。
Usually, if you're good at it, less than ten plus minutes.
因此，这可以在安装热泵时轻松完成，或者在安装时进行，而这时资金正在流动，正是销售多年服务合同和预防性维护服务的好机会。
So this can be done over the course of an easy install or at time of install of heat pumps, which is where we're increasingly getting installed when usually the money is flowing and there's a lot of opportunity to sell a multiyear service contract with preventative maintenance if you install it.
数据管道方面，我认为每个小公司都必须解决至少一两个他们原本不希望或认为不需要解决的问题，但从建筑中获取数据却出奇地具有挑战性。
The data pipelines, I think this is one of the every small company has to solve at least one or two problems that they didn't necessarily want to or think they needed to, But getting data out of buildings is impressively challenging.
依赖客户的Wi-Fi连接，我认为是许多其他方面都很优秀的产品中最主要的弱点之一。
Reliance on the customer's Wi Fi connection, I think, is, like, one of the biggest Achilles heels in many otherwise excellent products.
因为一旦你依赖用户不更换他们的Wi-Fi路由器或密码，不思考‘我的热泵还连着吗？’
Because once you rely on somebody not changing their Wi Fi router or their password and not thinking it's like, oh, is my heat pump still connect?
一旦你解决了这个问题，就会容易很多。
Once you break that, it makes it a lot easier.
近年来的一些技术进步使这变得具有成本效益。
And some of the technical advances in the last few years have made that cost effective.
因此，我们默认完全不依赖任何客户的互联网连接。
So we default to not relying on at all any customer Internet.
事实上，对于某些客户，我们甚至为他们提供互联网连接，以便他们能够连接到恒温器或其他组件。
In fact, oftentimes for some customers, we are providing Internet for them to connect to their thermostats or some other components.
我们有不少客户依赖我们进行回传，以实现接近100%的正常运行时间。
We have a number of customers who rely on us to do the backhaul so that they can have nearly 100% uptime.
当数据进入云端时，这是一个非常好的问题，我非常感兴趣，尤其是针对你的播客听众——我认为几乎每个人都在做仪表盘。
And when it gets into the cloud, this is a great question and one I'm very interested, especially for your podcast audience, is I think literally everybody's making a dashboard.
我们也有一个。
We have one too.
但我们发现，这对部分客户有用，但很多时候，我们更希望在客户实际需要的地方提供服务，比如当情况严重时收到短信，或在每周开始或结束时收到一封邮件，内容是：
But what we have found is that that is useful for a subset of our customers, but oftentimes, we really want to meet our customers where they live, which frequently is getting a text if something is really bad or getting an email with a list of at the beginning or end of the week, hey.
这是我负责的所有设备的位置。
Here's where all the equipment that I'm responsible for is.
这些事情我应该尽快检查一下，而那些可能可以等几周再处理。
And, like, these things I should probably check out pretty soon and maybe these in a couple of weeks.
我们在与客户沟通的方式上，力求更加全面。
We've tried to be much more holistic in how we communicate with our customers.
我们在一开始就会问客户：你希望怎样接收信息？
And we asked them at the beginning is, like, how what do you want?
当然，你可以查看原始数据，但如果你不想深入研究制冷剂循环温度这类技术细节，你希望以什么方式获取这些对你和你的业务有帮助的信息？
Of course, you can see the raw data, but if you don't wanna nerd out on refrigerant loop temperatures, how would you like to get this information that would help you and your business?
我们看到越来越多客户倾向于通过API进行集成。
We do see an increasing pull towards integration with APIs.
我认为，总的来说，各行各业正越来越重视软件和软件产品，以帮助完成工作，从排程、计费到我们的预防性维护都包括在内。
I think that, in general, the trades are starting to get way more emphasis on software and software products to help do the jobs and everything from scheduling to billing and including our preventative maintenance.
所以我认为这将是一个持续的趋势，会有一些，嘿。
So I do think that that will be a continued trend where there'll be, like, some, hey.
你能把这个直接接入我目前用于排程的系统吗？
Can you just make this plug into the thing I'm already using for scheduling?
我们也在关注很多这类功能。
We're looking at a lot of those as well.
回到设备本身，安装简单。
Going back to the device itself, easy installation.
如果你要安装一台，你会做些什么？
If you were installing one, what would you be doing?
嗯。
Yeah.
顺便说一下，我刚装过。
I just did, by the way.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以我经常做这个。
So I'm doing it pretty frequently.
好的。
Okay.
好吧。
Alright.
所以这件事应该还新鲜在你的记忆里。
So it should be fresh in your mind.
是的。
Yeah.
我们现在主要销售的就是这个产品，我们可以就此讨论一下。
The idea we can talk through this is the thing that we're selling the vast majority of right now.
所以这是一个可以安装在VRF或分体式机组上的设备。
So this is a unit that would go on, for example, a VRF or a split unit.
对于那些只听不看视频版本的人来说，它看起来就像一个紧凑型路由器，如果你这么形容的话。
And for people that are just listening and not seeing the video version of this, it looks like a compact router, if you could say that.
是的。
Yeah.
你可以这么说。
You could say that.
这是一个相对较小的盒子。
It's a relatively small box.
我通常说它大约相当于几副扑克牌的大小。
I usually say a couple of decks of cards.
它的尺寸正好合适。
It's about the right size.
我们的想法是，这个设备可以借助磁铁安装并嵌入到您的热泵外壳内。
And the idea is that this will fit and snaps in with magnets, fit inside the enclosure of your heat pump.
然后，我们在前面和侧面设置了几个连接器。
And then what we do is we have a couple connectors here on the front and the side.
你将其插入电源，我们不仅为设备供电，还使用符合公用事业标准的电表实时测量用电量。
You plug it in to power, and we also we both draw power into the device, but we measure it in real time with the utility grade power meters.
所以你能知道有多少电力流经这些设备。
So you'll know how much power is going through these units.
我们发现这在诊断各种潜在问题时非常非常有用，从占空比到天啊，为什么我的电力公司给我供电520伏？
We find this to be very, very useful in diagnosing potential issues ranging everywhere from what is the duty cycle to holy moly, why is my power company feeding me 520 volts?
这就是为什么会出现电压或相位不同步的情况。
And that's why things are or phases going out of sync.
我们经常遇到电力质量问题。
We see power power quality problems very, very consistently.
这就是我们为设备供电的方式。
And that's how we power the device.
需要明确的是，我们在这方面并不使用电池。
It's to be clear, we don't use batteries in any particular way on this.
我们发现，如果必须到处更换电池，这又是一个巨大的麻烦。
We found that to be another really big pain is if you have to go around and replace all the batteries.
你只是增加了头痛，而不是减轻了它们。
You just add it to the headaches, not remove them.
这些是我们的传感器。
And then these are our sensors.
这些传感器主要用于温度监测。
So these sensors can go these are primarily temperature sensors.
我们还可以做一些其他酷炫的事情。
We can do some other cool things as well.
我们还有一些不太常见的功能，比如：你把传感器放在冷凝水盘里，然后当它变湿时给我发短信？
We have some, like, off off menu beef options for things ranging usually, it's like, you put a sensor in my condensate pans and then send me a text if it's wet?
但我们大部分工作都是在制冷剂回路上安装温度传感器。
But the vast majority of work that we do is we put temperature sensors on the refrigerant loop.
你可能会听到，这个设计是高度非侵入性的。
So what you should be hearing hopefully is that this is designed to be highly noninvasive.
我们不会直接干预制冷剂回路，因此不会安装压力传感器之类的东西。
We do not monkey with the refrigerant loop directly, so we do not add pressure transducers or anything like that.
我们发现那些东西通常会泄漏，反而会带来更多的问题。
We found those to usually leak, and that causes more problems than it solves.
因此，这旨在实现高度非侵入性。
So this is intended to be highly noninvasive.
因此，这里有六个传感器接口，再次说明，对于那些想要
So there are six jacks for sensors, again, for people who are
在这个设备上，有六个以上。
For on this one on this, there's six plus.
你可以将它们串联起来，用于多个压缩机，例如。
There's a little bit you can daisy chain them for multiple compressors, for example.
然后我们在背面提供电源，可以同时测量电压和电流。
And then we have power on the backside where you measure both the voltage and current.
然后它通过蜂窝网络连接，我们发现这在大多数城市中最有用。
And then it connects over the usually, you'll use cell connectivity, which we found to be the most useful in most metros.
所以它有一个天线或天线电缆接口，天线接口。
So it's got an antenna or connection for an antenna cable, antenna light.
是的。
Yeah.
而且你可以很快拿到它。
And you can get it in pretty quick.
这其实没多少。
That's not actually that much.
一旦你熟练了，就夹住电源，装上夹子，再放上几个温度传感器，快速在设备内部亲一下。
Once you're good at, you clamp into power, put on the clamps, put on a couple of temperature sensors, give it a quick kiss inside the unit.
然后当设备重新通电时，它就会开始向云端发送数据，你几乎立刻就能连接上它。
And then when the unit powers back on, it starts sending data over to the cloud, and you're almost instantly connected to it.
你之前提到过电源范围，比如不同类型的设备？
And you'd mentioned how about power ranges, like, types of equipment?
我们总部在纽约，所以我们看到的大多数设备都是240伏或以下的。
We're based here in New York, so most of the stuff we see is two forty or under, usually.
目前这个版本，我们当然正处于产品开发周期中。
The current version for this, we, of course, are on a product development cycle.
我们当前的版本支持到240伏，下一个版本将支持到460伏和480伏系统。
Our current version works up till two forty, and we have a next version that will be up to four sixty four eighty systems.
好的。
Okay.
我们当然会支持三相电。
And we'll do three phase, obviously.
我们在设计时就考虑到了这一点。
We designed it in mind with that.
用户体验怎么样？
What's the user experience like?
这些设备安装后，用户反馈如何？
What are users telling you after these are installed?
用户当然有多个层面。
There's, of course, multiple layers to the user.
当我们与暖通空调机械团队合作销售时，通常需要同时面对老板和主要技术人员或次要技术人员，而他们的用户界面需求往往不同。
So oftentimes when we're selling to partnering with an HVAC mechanical group, we're working both with usually the boss who actually wants a different user interface than the lead tech or the second tech.
而第一位用户想知道，好吧。
And that first user wants to know, alright.
告诉我一切运行得怎么样，以及我负责管理的所有系统状况如何？
Tell me how everything is doing, and how are all my systems that I'm responsible for managing?
如果他们管理大型商业项目，系统数量可能是成千上万。
It could be thousands of systems if they manage large commercial projects.
比如，一个屋顶可能有25台或多台VRF，而他们可能有100到200个屋顶。
It could be, like, a roof may have 25 VRFs or 10 VRFs, they have a 100 to 200 roofs.
这工作量可不小。
That's a lot of work.
所以给我一个完整的视图。
So give me that full view.
我希望获得全面的可视性，地图上显示所有设备的位置，以及哪些是红色、哪些是绿色。
I want full visibility and dots on the map of where things are and what's red and what's green.
当深入到细节层面时，技术人员所体验到的界面和体验，我们希望与他们的技能相辅相成，比如我们可以提示：嘿。
When you get into the detail level, so the view and the experience that a technician would experience is much more we hope to be complementary to their skill set where we can say things like, hey.
这个设备似乎制冷剂不足。
This one appears to be undercharged.
这就是我们认为它制冷剂不足的原因，以及我们认为我们可以提供帮助的地方。
This is why we think it's undercharged, and this is what we think we can help with.
你最好试试这些方法。
You should probably try these things.
我们的想法是，如果能在前期减少一些诊断时间，就能让前往现场的过程变得更加愉快和轻松，因为你提前就能说：好吧。
And the idea being that if we can cut some of the diagnosis time out ahead of time, it makes it for a much more pleasant and easy process to go there because you can go ahead of time saying, alright.
我可能需要这种制冷剂，因为我们有手册。
Well, I'm probably gonna need this refrigerant because we have the manual.
我可能需要这么多。
I'm probably gonna need this much of it.
我会去尝试用这一两样东西进行诊断。
And I'm gonna go and try and diagnose maybe with these one or two things.
而且除此之外，嘿。
And on top of that, hey.
这是你需要阅读的手册章节，以便你不必费力地到处寻找令人头疼的内容。
Here's the section of the manual that you're gonna have to read to do those things so that you're not hunting around for something painful.
所以，关键在于我们能帮助客户、技术人员以及管理他们的人提前多少地应对这些问题。
So it's really the experience is how much can we help our customers, the technicians, and the people who are managing them be able to get ahead of these problems.
我们见面时，你或塞莱斯特给我展示了这个应用，位置是如何标记的？
When we met in person, either you or Celeste showed me the app, and how is the location tagged?
这是需要人工输入的吗？还是说它是怎么运作的？
Is that something someone must enter, or how does that work?
很好的一点是，如果你给每台热泵配一部手机，手机通常都知道自己在哪里。
The nice thing is if you give every heat pump a cell phone, the cell phones usually know where they are.
我们花了一些时间思考如何最好地实现这一点。
We've spent a little bit of time thinking about the best way to do this.
我们有一些客户存在安全顾虑，因此我们可以为特定情况关闭这个功能。
We have some customers that there is a security concern, so we are able to turn that feature off for a certain.
但绝大多数人都是这样的：当然可以。
But the vast majority of people are like, yeah.
请告诉我具体是哪一个。
Please tell me which one it is.
尤其是在你处理多个机组时。
Especially as you get to these multiple units.
我们这里有一栋纽约的建筑，里面有2000台独立的PTAC空调，有时工作人员会搞错对象。
We have one building here in New York that has 2,000 separate PTACs, and they're running around changing the wrong ones sometimes.
所以我们花了很多时间思考如何区分每个机组。
So we've thought a lot about how do you set up which one is which.
我们发现效果不错的方法是在安装系统时立即扫描二维码。
And the way we've found it works pretty well is you scan the QR code right at the time of the install of the system.
这会给你一个小助手，提示你：好吧。
And that gives you a small helper where it's like, alright.
你在这里吗？
Are you here?
它是哪一台机组？
Which unit is it on?
你可以将它定位在屋顶或建筑的平面图上。
And you can place it on your map of either the roof or the building.
然后我们还做了一些其他傻乎乎的小事来让它更简单。
And then we've done some other silly things to try and make it easy.
比如，里面有个蜂鸣器。
Like, there's a buzzer inside.
所以，如果你找不到是哪一个，你可以按一下蜂鸣器。
So, like, if you can't find which one's which, you can buzz it.
哦，就是这个。
Oh, it's that one.
就是尽量添加一些小工具来让它更方便。
It's like so just try to add little tools to make it easy.
这不傻。
That's not silly.
这很聪明。
That's clever.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这很难。
I mean, it's hard.
如果你低头看着，你会想，这些一模一样的系统中，哪个才是问题所在？
If you're staring down, you're like, which one of these identical systems is the problem?
而且它们的标签可能不够清晰，或者有人把哪个面板对应哪个单元搞混了，这种情况我们确实见过很多次。
And maybe they're not labeled well or maybe somebody went and changed which panel goes on which, which we've definitely seen multiple times.
所以标签可能是错的。
So it might be labeled incorrectly.
第五单元的面板装在了第一单元上。
Unit Five's panels on Unit 1.
到底哪个才是真正的？
Which one is it really?
就是这个。
It was this one.
你还提到你可以参考手册。
You also mentioned you can refer to the manual.
对吗？
Is that correct?
我不太想过度使用‘人工智能’这个说法，但我们发现它非常非常有用。
I don't want to overuse the AI moniker, but we have found it very, very useful.
我们可以花很多时间深入探讨，人们是如何交替地对人工智能感到兴奋和害怕的。
We can spend a lot of time digging into, like, how everyone is alternately excited and scared of AI.
我们认为它是一个非常强大的工具。
We think it's a very powerful tool.
因此，我们为实际诊断这些问题所构建的许多内容都是基于机器学习的。
So a lot of what we have built for actually diagnosing these problems is built on machine learning.
但这是基于物理的机器学习，我们使用了真实热泵的实际数据，通过排放制冷剂、模拟泄漏、过度充注和堵塞过滤器来进行实验。
But it's physics based machine learning where we've actually taken real data on real heat pumps, where we've drained the refrigerant and simulated and leak and then overcharged it and clogged the filter.
我们做了大量实际工作来构建这个模型，而不是盲目地试错。
We've done, like, real work to be able to build that model rather than just throwing a bunch of spaghetti at the wall.
我们还发现，生成式人工智能最好的应用之一，就是如何让这个地方变得更好。
We've also found that one of the best places we are using generative AI is in how do I just make this a better place?
有了这些知识，读过所有手册和其他资料后，我该如何以最简单的方式把这些信息呈现给技术人员呢？
It's like with this knowledge and having read through the manuals and all the other stuff, how can I present that information to the technician as easily as possible?
如果你曾经不得不翻阅一本300页的热泵手册，试图弄清楚下一步该做什么，我们会发现这确实是个不错的小工具。
And if you've ever had to file through a 300 page manual for a heat pump to try and figure out what the heck to do next, like, we find it to be a nice little useful tool.
所以我们花了不少时间在这上面。
So that's one of the things we spend time on.
那对于承包商来说，如何获取呢？
How about acquisition for the contractor?
你能说说，如果有人听了这个并感兴趣，他们会去哪里？
Can you say someone listens to this and is interested?
他们去哪里可以了解更多？
Where do they go to learn more?
他们在哪里可以购买？
Where can they buy it?
你能大概说一下价格吗？
And can you give some idea of the cost?
所以目前，这还处于早期阶段。
So right now, this is early days.
我们面临一个美好的问题，那就是我们无法及时向新客户发货，积压了很多订单。
We have a wonderful problem, which is that we are quite backlogged on being able to ship these to new customers.
我们正在积极寻找愿意加入我们等待名单和测试计划的额外客户。
We are actively looking for additional customers who will join our waitlist and our beta program.
这些是愿意帮助我们共同开发这款产品的人。
So these are the people who are willing to help us actually co develop this product.
我们并不只是把客户看作是，嘿。
We don't think of our customers just as like, hey.
有人买了一件东西。
Somebody bought something.
我们希望与这些客户建立持续的合作关系。
These are partnerships that we want to continue to develop.
由于我们正在为这些合作伙伴开发工具，我们想与您交流并了解您的需求。
And since we are developing tools for those partners, we wanna talk to you and understand.
就是说，嘿。
It's like, hey.
如果你有这个而不是那个，这会有帮助吗？
If you've had this thing instead of this, would this help?
你这里最大的痛点是什么？
What is your biggest headache here?
所以，如果有人有兴趣加入这个合作伙伴计划并加入等待名单，那里有大量信息，我们会通过我们的产品开发进展与您联系，包括硬件和软件两个方面。
So if people are interested in joining that partner program and getting on the wait list, which has quite a bit of information and we'll be reaching out and talking to you through where our pipeline is and how we're developing both the hardware and software sides of the product.
我们非常期待您的联系。
We'd love to hear from you.
最好的方式是访问我们的网站：thalo labs dot com，即 thalolabs.com。
The best way to do that is they can contact us at our website, thalo labs dot com, thalolabs.com.
你也可以发送邮件至 hello@ThaloLabs.com。
And you can also email us at hello@ThaloLabs.com.
很乐意为您接听。
Be happy to pick up.
当然，如果有人想在领英上联系我，我随时乐意接待。
And, of course, if anyone wants to bother me on LinkedIn, I'm delightfully available.
总的来说，我们目前正在与首批客户处理一份非常出色的待办清单，收到了大量反馈，以至于我们根本赶不上生产速度，我认为这反而是个好问题。
In general, we're in the process of working through this really excellent backlog with our first set of customers, and we've been getting quite a bit of feedback to the point where we can't make them fast enough, which is, I think, a good problem to have.
你们会寻找纽约大都会区的Beta客户吗？
Would you be looking for beta customers in the New York metropolitan area?
理想情况下，如果有人住在我们附近，我们非常愿意合作。
Ideally, if someone is local to our area, we would love to partner.
这里纽约正在发生很多事，也有很多建筑正在改造。
There's a lot of stuff happening here in New York, and there's a lot of buildings that turns out.
因此，这里是进行试点的好地方，也是热泵的理想市场，因为这里正大量安装热泵，特别是在符合本地法规97号的项目中，我们正在将建筑从燃烧设备改造为全电气化系统。
So it's a good place to be doing pilots, and it's a great place for heat pumps because there's a lot of heat pumps coming in around here, especially on local law 97 projects where we're retrofitting buildings from combustion devices to all electric.
尽管如此，我们目前已经在10个州开展业务，而且还在增加，因此我们并不局限于任何特定区域。
Having said that, we're in 10 states and counting, so we do not limit ourselves to any one particular area.
事实证明，每个人面临的问题都不尽相同。
It turns out everybody has different problems.
所以我们现在正在与北美地区的任何人交谈。
So we're having to talk to anybody in North America right now.
我这边有个小故事。
Quick anecdote from my side.
我一位非常好的朋友兼同事吉姆·伯格曼，是Measure Quick的人。
Really good friend of mine, colleague Jim Bergman, Measure Quick guy.
他和我曾经在Testo公司共事，他们带我们参观了这座城市。
He and I worked for Testo, and they took us on a little tour of the city.
我们去了洛克菲勒中心顶层。
We went to the top of the rock.
当我们乘坐电梯上升，到达顶层时，我们眺望远处的屋顶机组，不禁惊叹：天啊。
And as we're going up the elevator and we got to the top, we looked out across the expanse of rooftop units and went, my god.
有太多了
There's a lot
工作要做。
of work to be done.
这段对话让我一下子回到了十五年前甚至更久以前的场景。
This conversation is like bringing me right back to that from fifteen years ago or more.
真有趣。
It's funny.
我早年在外地工作，我原本是纽约人。
I worked out in I'm from New York originally.
我来自布朗克斯。
I'm from Bronx.
我曾在旧金山待了很长时间，为不同的初创公司以及谷歌、Waymo和Cruise工作。
And I was out in San Francisco for an extended period of time working at different startups and Google and Waymo and Cruise.
我回到纽约来创办这家公司。
I moved back here to New York to start this company.
你可能会问，为什么要在纽约建立一家科技公司？
And you might say, why would you build a tech company in New York?
任何问我这个问题的人，我都会说，你真该来这儿亲自看看。
And anybody who asked me that, they say, you should really come here and find out.
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在早期，有一位投资者曾对我说，我真的很担心你会被困在纽约市场。
At early days, I had one investor, in fact, say, well, I'm really concerned you're gonna get stuck in the New York market.
我说，我不这么认为。
And I said, I don't think so.
但如果真的发生了，我们会
But if that happens, we'll
没事的。
be okay.
对。
Right.
还有很多工作要做。
There's a lot of work to be done.
在开发新技术时，最重要的是。
What's nice is when you're developing new technology is the most important thing.
建筑环境是一个很难创立新公司并实现销售的环境，因为销售周期太长了。
The built environment is a difficult environment to make a new company and to sell into Cause the sales cycle is so long.
每个人都非常忙碌。
It's everyone's very busy.
但如果你能让自己处于一个合适的位置，就有更多机会进行测试，比如在加利福尼亚的许多地方，天气倒是挺不错的。
But if you can set yourself up so that you are in the right spot so that there's so many more options to be able to test it versus if you're, for example, in many places in California, it's kinda nice out in California.
所以，你不会遇到那种‘天啊，紧急情况’的状况。
So, like, you don't quite have the level of holy moly emergency.
你必须马上过来修好这个问题。
Like, you gotta come here and fix this.
因此，我认为，与你的客户画像和基础群体保持联系会容易得多，从而能更快地推进工作。
So it makes it, I think, a lot easier to be in touch with your customer phenotypes and your base, and therefore you can do it faster.
一旦你对这种情况有了清晰的认识，就可以开始拓展其他市场和区域了。
And then once you get a really good idea of what that looks like, that's when you can start to expand other markets and other areas.
你能给我们讲讲你的公司吗？
Can you tell us a little bit about your company?
你在大纽约地区的布局是怎样的？
What's your setup in Metropolitan, New York?
能再跟我们多讲一点关于你的公司和你在其中的角色吗？
And just tell us a little bit more about your company and sort of your role there.
嗯。
Yeah.
我主要负责邮件和推文，有空的时候也会做播客。
Mostly, I do emails and tweets, podcasts whenever I can.
我是公司的首席执行官兼创始人，已经经营了几年了。
Well, I'm the CEO and founder, so I've been running this for just a few years now.
我们刚进入市场不久。
We're pretty new to market.
我当然有一些技术背景，我受过物理学家的训练。
I, of course, have a little bit of a technical background, so I'm a physicist by training.
因此，我仍然在产品开发方面相当在行，无论是硬件还是软件的设计。
So I'm still relatively dangerous on the product development side of how we design both the hardware but also the software components.
我觉得很多公司要么忽视，要么过度强调其中一方。
Feel that many companies ignore or maybe emphasize one versus the other.
实际上，这只是实现最终目标的手段，即为我们的暖通空调客户提供完整的体验。
Really, it's a means to the end of delivering a whole product, which is the the experience to our HVAC customers.
这一直是一个非常令人兴奋的时期。
It's been a very exciting time.
我们曾一度在可持续性方面获得了一些助力。
We found some tailwinds around sustainability for a little while.
但最近我们感觉这种势头减弱了。
We felt that pull back in recent times.
我们经常思考的一点是，只要我们打造的是真正满足需求的好产品。
And the one thing that we think about a lot is as long as we're building a good product that really satisfies a need.
我不认为暖通空调行业整体会消失。
And I don't see HVAC in general going away.
无论政治逆风如何，无论经济衰退如何，我们都将继续需要为建筑供暖和制冷。
Regardless of political headwinds, regardless of what's happening from a recession standpoint, we're going to need to keep heating and cooling buildings.
无论外部环境如何变化，我们都相信能通过优质的产品回应这一需求。
And we feel that we can answer that mail with good products regardless of what's happening externally.
这正是我们努力专注的地方。
And that's really where we try to focus.
最好的产品类型是那种不太在意其他所有事情的产品。
It's like the best type of product is one that doesn't really care that much about all the other things.
真正重要的是，我是否为我们的客户提供了特定的价值？
It's really about, am I providing a specific value for our customers?
明白了。
Got it.
在我们开始之前，你曾跟我分享过一个关于经营公司和做其他事情之间的类比。
And you shared a little thought with me before we started about analogy between running a company and doing something else.
是的。
Yeah.
我最近确实被问到过这个问题。
I actually was asked this somewhat recently.
就像，你最没预料到的是什么？
It's like, what was the thing that you were not expecting as much?
因为每个人都以为你在经营一家公司。
Because everyone thinks that you're running a company.
实际上，重点在于业务、战略和技术方面，还有人力资源。
It's really around the business and the strategy and the technology side and those HR.
而我没想到会做这么多看似即兴喜剧的事情。
And the thing that I wasn't expecting to do quite as much is what feels like improvisational comedy.
因为你常常会被丢进一个情境中，比如：我们到底在做什么？
Because you're oftentimes getting dumped into a situation where, like, what are we doing here?
我们希望这次互动达成什么结果？
What do we want to have happened out of this interaction?
或者能多告诉我一些吗？哦，你在意这件事吗？
Or tell me more about that oh, did you care about this thing?
好的。
Okay.
这完全不一样。
That's totally different.
我们去那边吧。
Let's go over there.
所以我觉得这就像是一场关于如何即兴表演的激动人心的速成课。
So I feel like it's been exciting crash course in how to do improv in some ways.
确实让你保持灵活敏捷。
Keeps you light on your feet for sure.
是的。
Yeah.
你对我们听众有什么最后的建议吗？
What closing thoughts can you leave us with for our listeners?
我喜欢提到一点，我相信很多听众已经本能地意识到，当设备在现场部署时，总会遇到一些问题。
I do like to bring up I think a lot of the listeners already have a intuitive sense that when things are installed in the field, there are issues.
我非常喜欢这次对话。
I've enjoyed this a lot.
在我们部署越来越多的系统时，我最大的乐趣之一就是能够从中获得一些非常有趣的统计数据。
One of the great joys I have as we have been deploying more and more of our systems is that we're able to get some really interesting statistics out of this.
例如，我们发现近40%的热泵——特别是VRF和分体式系统的组合——存在制冷剂不足或泄漏问题。
For example, we find that almost 40% of heat pumps, in particular, this is a combo of VRFs and splits, These systems are undercharged and or leaking.
而且我们能很快判断出问题是否严重。
And we're able to tell if it's really bad very quickly.
当然，我们也能察觉到随着时间推移出现的轻微泄漏。
And, of course, we're able to tell if it's a little bit over time.
但这个比例如此之高，我认为恰恰反映了该领域大多数人日常所经历的问题和困扰。
But the fact that that number is so high, I think, really speaks to some of the issues and pain that most of the people who are in this field are really seeing day to day.
返修率高达百分之十、二十甚至更高的原因，是因为系统从一开始就在泄漏。
The reason that the callbacks are ten, twenty plus percent is because it was leaking from the start.
我们发现，这自然也会迅速导致压缩机出现问题。
We find that that, of course, leads very quickly also into compressor problems.
如果你让系统长期处于制冷剂不足的状态，最终会把压缩机彻底损坏。
If If you leave it undercharged, you eventually beat the crap out of that compressor.
在整个泄漏期间，这个压缩机也是整个行业里最卖力工作的压缩机。
It's also the hardest working compressor in show business that whole time that's leaking.
它仍然在制热或制冷，但你为了做到这一点消耗了大量能源。
It's still making hot or cold, but, boy, are you burning a lot of energy to do it.
所以客户可能会频繁抱怨。
So the customer might be complaining a lot.
我们上周在纽约州北部刚完成了一次安装。
We just did an install last week in Upstate New York.
这位客户是一个低中收入社区团体，他们去年安装了全新的热泵。
This customer was a low middle income community group, and they put in all new heat pumps last year.
效果非常好。
It was really great.
他们希望实现电气化，但电费却是他们预期的三倍左右。
They wanted to be electrified, and they're paying about three x their energy bill that they expected.
而且他们已经出现过几次压缩机故障。
And they've had a couple of compressors fail already.
如果这么短的时间内就出现这种情况，那确实很糟糕。
And it's like, that's pretty bad if it's this recent.
当然，你还会遇到一系列与通信滤波器和电子问题相关的其他问题。
And, of course, there's the whole host of other problems that you find with the comm filters and the electronics issues.
所以，我想重点谈一谈的是，现在有一些工具可以帮助解决这些问题，让安装过程更加顺利，并让你更有把握确认设备已正确调试，这样你就可以放心离开——这不仅改善了客户体验，对暖通空调企业也大有裨益，因为他们无需反复返工维修，利润空间自然会提升。
So one of the things that I do want to parlay is one of the things I do wanna talk about is there are tools now that can help this, that can make that install process go better and go with more assurance that just like, yeah, I know this thing has been commissioned correctly, and I can walk away feeling really good about that, which is not only good for the customer interaction, but it's also really, really good for the HVAC business because they just are gonna make better margin if they don't have to keep going back and fixing stuff.
我们非常兴奋能站在这些工具的前沿。
And we are really excited to be at the vanguard of some of those tools.
没错。
Yeah.
这就像是给热泵赋予了声音。
It's like you give heat pumps a voice.
确实如此。
It does.
它与现有的其他工具形成了令人愉悦的互补关系。
And it's one of those that's we think delightfully complementary with all the other tools that have existed.
这并不会取代你的压力表。
This doesn't replace your gauges.
这有助于在那些仪表离开热泵后继续发挥作用。
This just helps extend those once those gauges leave the off leave the heat pump.
它并不能取代楼宇管理系统。
It doesn't replace a building management system.
如果用户有楼宇管理系统，它可以与之协同工作，比如提醒：嘿。
It works in conjunction if they have one with something that can be like, hey.
我们实际上非常关注这个设备上的数据。
We are actually really looking at the data on this device.
这可以将一次紧急呼叫转变为数周前就已规划好的维护任务，远在设备发出错误代码之前，也远在客户打电话说：嘿之前。
And this can turn an emergency call into a very, very controlled scheduled maintenance thing weeks in advance way before an error code is ever thrown on the device, way before the customer ever calls you saying, hey.
这个设备出问题了。
There's something wrong with this guy.
如果我们能与其他所有工具协同合作，打造这样一个小众领域，让暖通空调团队能够稍微预见未来，我们就觉得这正是我们开发该产品的理想方向。
So if we can work with all those other tools and build this little niche out so that an HVAC group can see the future a little bit, we feel like that's exactly where we wanna be in terms of developing it.
通过这样做，我认为每个人都将受益。
And in so doing, I think everybody wins.
客户体验更好。
The customer has a better experience.
他们消耗的能源更少。
They spend less energy.
作为我们的一个功能，当我们对仪表板和报告进行白标时，我们可以告诉暖通空调团队的客户他们节省了多少能源。
We, as one of our features, when we white label our dashboard and our reports, we can tell the HVAC group's customer how much energy they just saved.
我们可以为其赋予一个美元价值。
We can put a dollar value on.
这对客户留存来说非常棒。
That's, like, great for retention.
如果你能提供这样的数据，为什么还要换呢？
Why would you ever switch if you could tell that?
所以，我认为这些数据才刚刚开始成熟，此前有很多估算。
So these numbers, I think, are just starting to come to fruit where I think there've been a lot of estimates.
ASHRAE 有相关估算。
ASHRAE has estimates.
许多团队对暖通空调系统的问题都有估算。
A lot of groups have estimates of problems in HVAC systems.
但现在有了这些原始数据，我认为这可能是数据驱动的暖通空调维护的开端。
But now with this raw data, I think this is probably gonna be the dawn of data driven HVAC maintenance.
能够在这样一个早期阶段参与，真是太令人兴奋了。
And it's super exciting to be at that early stage.
听起来非常有前景，非常感谢你做客我们的播客并分享这些内容。
Sounds very promising, really wanna thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing this with us.
希望之后能有一些人与你取得联系。
And, hopefully, we get some people to connect with you afterwards.
但还有一个最后的问题。
But one final burning question.
为什么取名为Thalo Labs？
Why the name Thalo Labs?
哦，Thalo Labs。
Oh, Thalo Labs.
我很乐意解释原因。
I'm happy to give the reason.
哦，这真蠢。
So oh, this is dumb.
跟我一起踏上这段旅程吧。
Come with me on this journey.
好的。
Okay.
自古以来，人类一直难以制造颜料中的颜色，比如油漆和其他材料。
Throughout antiquity, one of the things that humans have struggled to do is create colors for pigments, like for paints and other things.
因此，群青蓝、深红等颜色在不同历史时期曾是地球上最昂贵的商品之一，甚至超过香料和其他物品。
That's why opmarine blue, crimson red have been some of the most expensive commodities on the planet at different times, more than spices, more than other things.
而我们实际上只是在最近大约一百年里，才通过多种合成染料填补了人类对色彩的完整体验。
And we actually have only recently, in the last about a hundred years, filled out the full human experience of color with a number of synthetic dyes.
其中最后一批被研制出来的染料，就是为了捕捉深邃蓝天的颜色，这些染料被称为酞菁蓝和酞菁绿。
And some of the most last ones that were done were to capture the color of the deep, deep blue sky, and those are called phthalo blue and phthalo green.
其实是 p-t-h-a-l-l，读作 phthalo。
It's actually p t h a l l, phthalo.
我一直很喜欢这个想法：如果你能加入一点科技，就可以让蓝色稍微更深一点，更贴近我们的感官体验。
And I've always liked that idea of, well, if you could add a little bit of technology, you can paint the color blue just a little bit deeper to match our human experience.
这也是鲍勃·罗斯最喜爱的颜色之一。
It's also one of Bob Ross's favorite colors.
如果你看过鲍勃·罗斯的节目，他会说：‘我这里加了一点 phthalo 蓝。’
If you ever watched the Bob Ross, he's like, well, I had a little phthalo blue in here.
我觉得在疫情期间，我坐着看鲍勃·罗斯的节目，用它来让自己平静下来。
And I think during the pandemic, was sitting watching, calming myself with some Bob Ross.
我当时想：phthalo 听起来真不错。
I was like, phthalo sounds great.
所以我们把它命名为 phthalo labs，就此定名。
So we called it phthalo labs and called it a day.
蓝天。
Blue sky.
是的。
Yeah.
机会。
Opportunity.
太棒了。
Fantastic.
非常感谢你，布伦丹。
Well, thank you so much, Brendan.
和你交谈非常愉快，我希望一些观众能查看节目说明中的链接，通过领英或你公司提供的电子邮件和网站与你取得联系。
It's been a pleasure talking with you, and I hope some of guests take a look at the links in the show notes and get in touch with either you through LinkedIn or through your company with the email address and website I'll put in there.
比尔，非常感谢你邀请我参加，也感谢你为社区所做的所有服务。
Bill, thank you so much for having me on here, and thank you for all the service that you do for the community.
我认为这些贡献默默无闻，但对整个社区来说真的非常重要，比尔。
I think that's unheralded and really, really so important for the overall community, Bill.
谢谢。
Thank you.
你太客气了。
You're very, very welcome.
很有趣，尤其是和你这样的人交谈。
It's fun, especially talking to people like you.
保重。
Take care.
你也是。
Likewise.
谢谢，比尔。
Thanks, Bill.
再次感谢您收听本期《建筑暖通科学播客》。
Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Building HVAC Science Podcast.
如果您有任何问题或想推荐话题，可以通过电子邮件 marketing@truetechtools.com 联系我们。
If you have any questions or wanna suggest the topic, you can reach out to us at marketing@truetechtools.com.
邮箱是 t r u t e c h t o o l s 点 com。
That's t r u t e c h t o o l s dot com.
我们讨论的一些主题需要专业的技术培训才能正确理解或安全执行。
Some of these topics we discuss require technical training for proper interpretation or safe execution.
因此，如果您是经过培训的专业人士，可以立即进行。
So if you're a trained pro, you can proceed immediately.
如果您不是，请咨询并聘请一位经过培训的专业人士。
If you're not, please consult with and hire a trained pro.
《建筑暖通空调科学播客》由True Tech Tools有限公司制作。
The Building HVAC Science Podcast is production of True Tech Tools Limited.
如实声明，我是True Tech的老板。
Full disclosure, I'm the owner of True Tech.
所表达的任何观点，均来自我的嘉宾、我的联合主持人（当他在这里时）或我本人，具体取决于谁在发言。
Any opinions expressed to those of my guests, my cohost, when he's here or myself depending on who is speaking, of course.
如果您正在寻找任何工具或测试仪器，请提及本播客。
If you're in the market for any tools or test instruments, mention the podcast.
实际上，目前Thalo Labs并不销售，但未来我们可能会销售。
Actually, Thalo Labs right now, we're not selling it, but maybe we will in the future.
看看 truetechtools.com 提供了什么。
Look at what truetechtools.com has to offer.
那就是 trutechtools.com。
That's trutechtools.com.
你可以使用优惠码 HVACBS 获得不错的折扣。
And you can use the offer code HVACBS for a nice discount.
感谢您收听并关注《建筑暖通科学》。
I want to thank you for listening to and following us on Building HVAC Science.
下次再见，保重。
Until next time, take care.
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