BE 629：商务午餐时应该喝酒吗？

这里是商务英语播客第629期。

This is the Business English Podcast episode six two nine.

商务午餐时，你应该喝酒吗？

Should you have a drink during a business lunch?

欢迎收听来自All Ears English的商务英语播客。

Welcome to the Business English Podcast from All Ears English.

获取你在全球商务中实现梦想所需的英语技能。

Get the English skills you need to achieve your dreams in global business.

无论是做演示、开会，还是参加办公室聚会，这都是真正的商务英语，由你最喜欢的美国主持人Lindsay和Aubrey为你带来，她们来自美国亚利桑那州和科罗拉多州。

For a presentation, a meeting, or your office party, this is Real Business English with your favorite American hosts, Lindsay and Aubrey, coming to you from Arizona and Colorado, USA.

你好，Lindsay。

Hello, Lindsay.

你最近怎么样？

How are you doing?

嘿，Aubrey。

Hey there, Aubrey.

我挺好的。

I'm doing pretty good.

我们今天聊什么？

What are we talking about today?

我们有个有趣的话题，这个……

We have an interesting topic This on the

是个非常有趣的话题。

is a very interesting topic.

我有个问题想问你。

I have a question for you.

你在商务午餐时点过酒吗？

You ever ordered a drink during a business lunch?

问得好。

It's a good question.

说实话，我其实不太参加商务午餐。

I don't really do business lunches that much, to be honest.

我在家工作。

I work from home.

所以没有。

So no.

但我去参加会议时会点酒。

But I do order drinks when I go to conferences.

比如吃晚饭的时候，午餐一般不会。

Like if I do a dinner, probably not at lunch.

但如果我和可能想合作的人，或者同行的几位同事一起吃晚饭，那种场合我会点酒。

But if I have a dinner with someone that maybe I'm interested in doing business with or a group of other colleagues in the field, I'll get a drink in those moments.

那你呢，晚餐，对吧？

What about you, Dinner, right?

对，这挺有意思的。

Yeah, this is interesting.

对，更多是晚餐。

Yeah, more dinner.

我以前在大学的MBA项目工作时，经常和教授或者其他同事出去吃商务午餐，我们有时候会这样。后来我还给一个律师当过一段时间的助理，基本上就是做律师助理，我们经常和客户出去吃商务午餐，但从来没有人点过酒。

I used to go to business lunches a lot when I worked for a university's MBA program with either professors or other, know, we would do business lunches some and I also worked for an attorney for a while, basically as a paralegal and we would go to business lunches with clients a lot and no one ever ordered alcohol.

喝酒？没有。

A drink No.

而且我当时也不喝酒，但他们其他人晚上可能会喝一杯。

And I wasn't drinking at the time, but all of them could have would have would have had a drink at night.

但在午餐时，从来没有人点过酒，这真的很有意思。

But at lunch no one ever did and this is really interesting.

我知道这很受文化影响。

I know this is very cultural.

在世界各地，这可能因地区而异，但在美国，现在午餐时点酒已经很少见了。

It's very possible that around the world this is different depending on where you're doing business, but in The States very rare to order a drink at lunch these days.

对，但以前不是这样的，对吧？

Yeah, it wasn't always that way, right?

以前确实不是这样。

It wasn't always that way.

也许有些行业里还有人这么做，算是例外吧。

Maybe there's exceptions that people are still doing it in certain industries.

我不知道，但我觉得一般人通常会点冰茶、冰水之类的，你知道，就是那些比较无趣的东西。

I don't know, but the average person would generally I feel like people order like iced tea, ice water, you know boring things

而且实际上，因为我不确定，你和我都不太经常有商务午餐。

and I actually because I wasn't sure you and I both don't have business lunches very often.

所以我给几个我认识的商人发了短信，其中一个是银行家，另外两个是做销售的，想听听他们的看法，算是试探一下情况。

So I texted a few businessmen that I know one was a banker and two of them in sales to get their feedback to like try and test the waters.

现在美国的商务文化是不是就是这样，对吧？

What's this like an American business culture now, right?

所以我会在节目稍后分享这些内容。

So I'm going share that a little later in the episode.

我们还会分享一些关于这在美国文化和美国商务文化中如何演变的细节，因为我们最近看到一篇文章，有人提出应该恢复商务午餐时喝酒的做法，而且他们提出了一些非常有趣、也很有说服力的观点，说实话。

We're also going to share some details about how this has evolved in American culture in American business culture, because we recently saw an article where someone was sort of submitting that we should bring back drinking during business lunches and they made some very interesting and compelling, honestly, points.

对，挺有意思的。

Yeah, interesting.

不过首先，我们想公布一下最近一期节目里那个投票的结果。

But first we do want to announce the results of a poll that we recently asked in a recent episode.

奥布里，投票的问题是什么来着？

What was the poll question, Aubrey?

对，我们问的是你每天收到多少封邮件。

Yes, we asked how many emails do you receive each day?

我们收到了不少回复。

We got quite a few responses.

这个结果挺有意思的。

This was interesting.

少于25封的，占33%。

Less than 25, was 33%.

25到50封的，占45%。

25 to 50 was 45%.

那可真不少。

That's a lot.

而50到75封的，只有22%的人。

And 50 to 75 was a poor 22% of you.

我真为你们感到难过。

I feel so bad for you.

我真的是

I'm really

很多。

a lot.

不过你也跟他们差不多。

You're right there with them though.

感觉你大概也会收到那么多吧。

Feel like you probably wouldn't you get about that many

在糟糕的日子里差不多。

kind of on a bad day.

是的，周末肯定是的。

Yes, the weekend for sure.

哇，真的假的。

Yeah, wow.

嗯，我挺喜欢这种听众之间的共鸣感的。

Well, I kind of love that there's solidarity for listeners out there.

如果你每天收到50到75封邮件，你并不孤单，但我们也为你感到难过。

If you are getting 50 to 75 email, you're not alone, but also we feel bad.

那肯定很辛苦。

That's gotta be rough.

对，确实。

Yeah, for sure.

没错。

Sure.

我们得搞个好点的收件箱过滤系统，对吧？

We need to get a good inbox filtering system, right?

好消息是，我们确实问了超过75封的情况，结果是零。

We did the good news is we did ask more than 75 and that was zero.

谢天谢地。

Thank goodness.

听到这个很高兴。

Glad to hear that.

是的。

Yes.

谢天谢地。

Thank goodness.

我的天哪。

Oh my gosh.

那这是什么？

So what is this?

这篇文章是什么？有人建议我们也许应该回到上世纪中期的传统。

What was this article where someone suggested maybe we should go back to the mid century traditions.

这是《卫报》上的。

So this was in the Guardian.

文章标题是《全世界的办公室职员们，联合起来》。

It was called Office Workers of the World Unite.

是时候复兴“三杯马提尼午餐”了。

It's Time to Revive the Three Martini Lunch.

作者是安德烈娅·哈弗。

It was by Andrea Havor.

这篇文章发表在《卫报》上，真的很有意思，因为以前在美国，午餐时喝酒是非常普遍的事。

And this was yeah in the Guardian and this was really interesting because yeah drinking during lunch used to be extremely common in The US.

我之前没听过“三杯马提尼午餐”这个说法，你听过吗，林赛？

I hadn't heard this phrase the three martini lunch before had you Lindsay?

你熟悉这个说法吗？我倒是听过。

You familiar I have

没有，但我立刻就想到了《广告狂人》。

not but it immediately made me think of Mad Men.

就是那部剧《广告狂人》。

Series Mad Men.

如果我们的听众还没看过那部剧，一定要去看看。

If no one if our listeners have not watched that, definitely check it out.

就是那种50年代职场文化，互联网时代之前的那种平衡生活，真的就是这样。

Just the culture of you know the workplace in the 50s, a balanced life pre Internet days really is what Exactly.

我们说的就是那个。

We're talking

这个说法在英国可能更常见，对吧？

And this might be a more common phrase in The UK, right?

《卫报》是英国的出版物，但我确实……

The Guardian is a British publication, but I did.

她在文章里指出，“三杯马提尼午餐”这个说法最早是在1950年的一篇专栏里出现的，讲的是纽约的职场生活。

She pointed out in the article that that phrase three martini lunch was first used in a newspaper column in 1950 about New York professional life.

所以和《广告狂人》里展现的情况非常吻合。

So very much like what was happening in the show Mad Men.

1976年，吉米·卡特用这个说法作为武器，指责商界人士利用工薪阶层的纳税人，过着那种轻浮的生活，午餐时喝三杯马提尼，而其他人却在辛苦工作。所以有趣的是，这个说法一开始并不是褒义的。

And it was Jimmy Carter who said in 1976, he was using it as a weapon, accusing business people of sort of like taking advantage of working class taxpayers by you know this frivolous life drinking three martinis at lunch while other people are like really working hard at their jobs and so it's interesting it wasn't complimentary.

他之所以这么说，是因为可以抵税，对吧？

And and he was saying that because of the tax deduction, right?

他们把这笔开销从收入里扣掉了，企业主们就是这么做的。

They're writing it off of their business owners writing it off the income

作为开支，对吧？

as expense, right?

所以他想对这部分征税。

So he wants the taxes for that.

没错。

Sure.

有道理。

Makes sense.

有道理。

Makes sense.

那我们这里需要了解什么呢，奥布里？

So what do we need to know here, Aubrey?

对，这真的很有意思。

Yeah, so this is really interesting.

安德烈亚说，我觉得美国企业界需要复兴一个被大家嘲笑的、上世纪中叶美国商业生活的老传统。

So Andrea, what she said was, I think corporate America needs to revive a much mocked relic of mid century American business life.

就是那种三杯马提尼的午餐。

The three martini lunch.

她真正想说的是，商业世界因为人工智能和线上会议已经走到了另一个极端，我们很少和同事见面了。

And so really what she was saying is that the business world has gone so far the other end with AI and online meetings that we're not often meeting with colleagues.

你知道，商业交易、销售人员，我们不再有过去那种社交互动了。

And you know, business deals, salespeople, we don't have the social interactions we used to have.

她还提出了一些论点，而且确实有很多证据，或者说轶事证据，表明很多商业交易在人们喝了几杯之后更容易达成。

And she also was making arguments and had a lot of evidence really that, or evidence, anecdotal evidence that a lot of business deals are easier to make when someone has had a couple of drinks.

对，我的回答是，第二天我们还会喜欢这笔交易吗？

Yeah, my answer to that would be do we like the deal the next day?

这就是问题所在。

That's the question.

我们得好好想想这笔交易。

We should think about the deal.

大家都没了顾虑，什么条件都可能答应。

Inhibitions are down, we might agree to anything.

对，我们签完之后会不会后悔？

Right, do we feel good about what we signed?

不过，这确实引出了一个更广泛的问题，我听过有人讨论过。

But yeah, I mean, this actually brings us into a broader question that I've heard discussed.

其实我周末和家人聊过这个，关于Z世代，也就是年轻一代。

I actually was talking about this with my family over the weekend around Gen Z, the younger generation.

他们喝酒少了，从健康角度看，这确实很好。

They're doing less drinking, And from a health perspective, it's really good.

有些人可能会说，不一定是我，但有些人会说，如果不喝酒，那社交怎么进行呢？

Some people might argue, not necessarily me, but some people might argue that where's how is the socializing taking place if we're not?

在美国，我们没有那种适合……的场所。

We don't in in The US, we don't have spaces for...

比如，除了酒吧以外。

Like, outside of bars.

我们现在已经没有像社交俱乐部那样的地方了。

We don't have, like, social clubs anymore.

这有点跑题了，Aubrey。

This is getting onto a bit of a a tangent, Aubrey.

不过没关系。

But no.

你说得对。

You're right.

改天再聊吧。

About another day.

但我们确实没有社交俱乐部。

But we don't have social clubs.

如果你不运动，不喝酒，不去酒吧或者以酒为主的场所，那真的没有地方可以社交了。

If you don't play sports, if you don't drink and go to bars or alcohol oriented places, there's really no place to socialize.

对，这真的很有意思。

Yeah, it's really interesting.

我认识不少不喝酒的人。

I know quite a few people who don't drink.

我朋友的孩子，你知道，年轻的小夫妻，他们好像经常待在家里。

My friend's children who are like, you know, young married couples and they often, it seems like stay home a lot.

他们不怎么社交，因为十几岁的时候，他们社交的方式就是去酒吧喝一杯。

They're not socializing a lot because when they were teenagers, the way they socialized was to go to a bar and have a drink.

没错。

Exactly.

所以你说得对。

And so you're not wrong.

这真的很有意思。

That's really interesting.

所以这算是工作版的这种情况吧。

So this is kind of the work version of that.

工作上的对应情况就是这样。

The work equivalent of that.

不过奥布里，再多跟我说说。

But tell me more Aubrey.

我们想大致梳理一下美国职场饮酒的时间线，让不太了解的人知道以前是什么情况。

We wanna kind of break down in The US, just sort of a timeline for anyone else who's not super familiar with like drinking at the workplace, what it was like.

在五十年代到七十年代，喝酒很普遍，对吧？

So in the fifties and seventies, it was very common, right?

喝酒谈生意真的很正常。

Alcoholic business was really normal.

尤其是在公司和销售环境里。

Corporate and sales environments especially.

比如你有个客户。

You'd have like a client.

大家喝一杯，生意就更容易谈成。

Everyone would have a drink and you'd be more likely to get the deal done.

对，而且还有烈酒。

Yeah, and hard alcohol too.

马提尼、葡萄酒、威士忌。

Martinis, wine, whiskey.

我们说的可不是淡啤酒，对吧？

We're not talking about light beer here, right?

没错。

Exactly.

而且在纽约这样的城市，他们有一种所谓的“权力午餐”，通常都包含酒精饮料。

And they had what was called a power lunch in cities like New York, which often included alcohol, alcoholic drinks.

然后到了八十年代，这种情况开始走下坡路。

And then in the eighties, that's when the decline started.

很多公司的人力资源政策开始收紧，不鼓励在工作场合喝酒。

So a lot of corporations, HR policies started to crack down and discourage drinking at work events.

我在想，是不是也是这个时候，更多公司搬到了像纽约这样的地方。

I wonder if this is also when more companies moved into places like New York.

因为我知道……

Because I know the...

我知道纽约在九十年代变得更安全了一些，而且人口也更多了。

I know that New York became a little bit safer towards the nineties and more like it became more populated.

可能有更多公司搬进来了。

More companies might have moved in.

这只是我的猜测。

That's just theory.

我不太确定。

I'm not sure

这听起来挺有道理的。

how That makes to figure sense.

对吧？

That Right?

嗯，我想在八十年代，人们开始更加关注职业素养、责任问题、骚扰案件等等。随着这些事情的发生，公司开始意识到为了自身的安全和保护，需要对此加以限制。

Well, was in the eighties, I guess that attention started to be paying more to professionalism, liability, harassment cases, you know, as things like this were happening, companies started to realize we need to be cracking down on this for our own safety protection.

然后到了90年代、2000年代，发生了很大的转变。

And then in the 90s, 2000s, there was a major shift.

很多企业道德改革都出现了。

A lot of corporate ethics reforms happen.

我们听说过像安然那样的丑闻，如果你不知道的话，可以去查查。

We heard about scandals like like Enron, which if you don't know about that, look that up.

关于安然，我们可以改天再做一期节目。

We can do another episode another day about Enron.

人力资源部门扩大了，正式法律出台了，性骚扰诉讼什么的，都是这类事情。

Expanded HR departments, passing formal laws, sexual harassment suits, things like that.

随着这些变化，大公司里午餐喝酒变得越来越少见，到现在基本上已经没有了，对吧？

And as that all changed, alcohol at lunch became increasingly rare in large companies to where now it's basically phased out, right?

所以就像你说的，Lindsay，很多人会在晚餐时喝一杯，或者欢乐时光喝点鸡尾酒，但午餐时喝酒就非常罕见了。

So like you were saying, Lindsay, a lot of people will have a drink at dinner or maybe cocktails for happy hour, but for lunch it's very rare.

虽然还有……

Although there are...

我觉得有些科技公司会有……

I feel like there are tech companies that will have...

比如我最近在波士顿，其实也不算最近，好几年前了，我在波士顿。

Like I recently in Boston, not recently, a bunch of years ago, I was in Boston.

当时我们和一些朋友出去。

We were out with some friends.

我们有个朋友在一家咨询公司工作。

A friend of ours worked for a consulting company.

他带我们去了他的办公室，因为他得去拿点东西。

He took us into his office just because he had to pick up something.

那是个周六晚上。

It was like a Saturday evening.

但我们走进办公室，看到那边有啤酒龙头……

But we walked in the office, and there are taps there on the side of the...

就像有个……

There's like a...

看起来像个共享办公空间，有浮动的桌子，还有豆袋椅，各种科技感的东西。

It looked like a coworking space with floating desks and, you know, beanbag chairs, all the techy things.

还有水龙头，人们可以自己倒啤酒喝。

And there's taps for people to just serve themselves beer.

但我觉得区别在于他们是在一天工作结束后才喝。

But I think the difference is they drink later in the day.

这就是关键。

That's the thing.

等他们工作完成之后。

When their work is done.

我丈夫就在一个共享办公空间工作。

So my husband works in a coworking space.

对，他们那里有类似欢乐时光的活动。

Yeah, and they have there's like a happy hour.

有酒。

There's alcohol.

冰箱里有罐装饮料，但从来不会在下午四点前喝，对吧？

There's like canned beverages in a fridge there, but never before like 4PM, right?

又不是说你去谈生意，中途就喝起来了。

It's not like you're going to go and it's not in the middle of the business deal.

没错，对吧？

Exactly right?

要是去参加真正的商务午餐，以前肯定要喝上一两杯，甚至三杯。

And if you were to go to an actual business lunch where once upon a time they definitely would have had a drink or two or three.

现在几乎听都没听过了。

Now it's almost unheard of.

对，挺有意思的。

Yeah, interesting.

所以这就是关键区别。

So that's the key difference.

酒是什么时候喝的？

When is the alcohol being consumed?

我之前提过，我问了几个朋友。

I asked a couple of friends like I was mentioning.

他们给了我一些反馈。

I got some feedback.

第一个朋友说，在美国，商务午餐时喝酒一点都不常见，尤其是有客户在场的时候，这挺有意思的，因为以前恰恰是这种场合喝酒最多。

The first one said it's not typical at all in The US to drink during a business lunch, especially not if customers are present, which is interesting because once upon a time that's when it would have happened the most.

比如我们这里有客户。

Like we have a client here.

我们想让他们喝几杯，然后也许生意就谈成了。

We want to have them have a few drinks and then maybe they'll get the deal done.

你想带他们出去，在他们身上花钱，对吧？

You want to take them out, spend money on them, right?

请他们喝酒。

Treat them to drinks

这种情况确实还有，但更多是下午四五点的欢乐时光鸡尾酒。

and that still happens definitely, but it's more like happy hour cocktails at like four or 5PM.

吃饭的时候喝点酒，然后这个挺有意思的。

Drink with dinner and then this was interesting.

他们说每人两杯酒是挺标准的，没人想喝醉了然后尴尬，因为毕竟你还是和同事、客户在一起。

They said that a two drink per person limit is pretty standard like no one's trying to get drunk and be awkward at it, know, because it's still you're with coworkers, you're with clients.

所以更多是稍微有点醉意，但绝不会喝过头。

So it's more about getting a little tipsy, but never going overboard.

好的。

Okay.

所以这就是第一个人说的。

So that was what the first person said.

还有别人说了什么吗？

What else did, did anyone else say?

是的。

Yes.

第二个人说，根据我的经验，午餐时很少有人会点酒。

And the second person said, you know, in my experience, it's rare for anyone to ever order drinks at lunch.

他们说，在客户晚宴上，只有客户先点酒，我才会点。

They said at a client dinner I would only order a drink if the client does first.

这对我来说也很有意思，而且确实有道理，对吧？

So that was really interesting to me as well and really makes sense, right?

如果你的客户不喝酒，或者就是不点酒，那主办方可能也会跟着不喝，这样想就说得通了。

If your client either doesn't drink or just isn't ordering a drink, I could that make sense that whoever is hosting them might also not drink.

有意思，对，看来确实有条不成文的规矩，除非客户在喝，你跟着喝，否则午餐不喝酒是合理的。

Interesting, yeah, so it seems like there is this unwritten rule that unless your client is drinking and you mirror them, no alcohol at lunch makes sense.

然后我还有一个朋友说，他的规矩是午餐绝对不喝酒。

Then I had one other friend who said never at lunch is the rule.

他还补充说，他遇到过午餐时喝很多的客户，但他自己仍然不会点酒。

And then he added that he's had clients who will drink a lot at lunch, but he still wouldn't order a drink.

这挺有意思的。

So that was interesting.

你可能会想，如果你招待客户，而他们碰巧在喝酒，谁知道他们的文化是什么样的，你可能还是不想喝。

You might think, if you're hosting clients and they happen to be drinking, who knows what you their culture is still might not want to.

可能还是不想喝。

Still might not want to.

真的很有意思。

Really Interesting.

哇，太有意思了。

Wow, fascinating.

好的，奥布里。

Okay, Aubrey.

那我们接下来聊什么？

So where do we go from here?

对，我觉得这个话题挺有意思的，因为我感觉我们很多听众可能不认同美国的商务文化。

Yeah, so I thought it would be interesting because I have a feeling that a lot of our listeners out there would disagree with American business culture.

他们午餐时可能会喝上一两杯。

They might have a drink or two during lunch.

他们可能想喝，对吧？

They might want to, right?

而且这也是一个非常有趣的讨论，尤其是你们很多人和来自世界各地的人一起工作。

And this is also a really interesting discussion, especially where a lot of you work with people from all over the world.

你们在这些全球化的企业里工作，来自不同的地方。

You're working in these global businesses coming from all of these different places.

你们可能在会议上见面，而这些会议有不同的公司政策。

You might be meeting at conferences where you have different corporate policies.

所以了解一下支持和反对喝酒的一些论点可能会很有趣。

So it might be interesting to know sort of some of the arguments for and against drinking

对，工作期间喝酒，有意思。

Yeah, during a work interesting.

而且这个讨论，这个辩论也可能延伸到更广泛的喝酒问题上，对吧？

And this conversation might, this debate might also carry over into just drinking kind of broadly, right?

说得好。

Good point.

作为一种社交的形式，对吧？

As a form of, as a forum for socialization, Right?

再说一遍，大家别误会，我们不是提倡喝酒。

And again, don't get us wrong guys, we're not condoning drinking.

我们不是说你应该喝或者不应该喝。

We're not saying you should drink or shouldn't drink.

我们是在给你介绍一些对话结构，方便你以后想聊这个话题时用。

We're introducing you to structures for a conversation you might want to have.

对。

Exactly.

跟母语者探讨这个话题。

To explore this with a native speaker.

同事或者客户可能会问你这个问题。

A colleague or a client might ask you about this.

你确实需要有一些想法，提前想好一些措辞。

You do want to have ideas, the phrases you want to have thought about this.

那么，在工作午餐上喝酒，有哪些支持的理由呢？

So what would be some of the arguments for drinking alcohol at a work lunch?

就像那位作者建议的那样。

Like to bring back what the writer suggested.

对。

Exactly.

首先，喝酒能增进关系和信任。

First of all, that it builds relationship and trust.

这确实是真的，对吧？

And this really is true, right?

一起喝一杯确实能让大家都更放松。

Sharing a drink really will help everyone feel more relaxed.

这是一种打破僵局的方式，对吧？

It is a way to break the ice, right?

这很有意思，因为我大半辈子都不喝酒，现在我会和朋友喝一杯。

So this is interesting as a person who did not drink for much of my life and now I'll have a drink among friends.

你会惊讶地发现，它立刻就能帮你打破僵局。

It is amazing how it immediately breaks the ice for you.

完全没有尴尬的感觉。

There is no awkwardness.

每个人手里都拿着饮料。

Everyone has a drink in hand.

特别是在销售、媒体、咨询这些行业，但在社交场合也一样。

It's especially in like sales media consulting, but also in social situations as well.

仅仅和某人喝一杯，就能建立这么多关系，真是不可思议。

It's amazing how much relationship building that creates just sharing a drink with someone.

对，确实如此。

Yeah, for sure.

尤其是如果我不知道你是在说喝酒，还是说像“我们去喝马提尼吧”这样的提议。

Especially if I don't know you're talking about the drinks or something or the idea like let's go out for martinis.

我们去喝玛格丽特吧，你知道的。

Let's go out for margaritas, you know.

这可以是大家聚在一起的方式，也可能是一些国家的文化习惯，比如在欧洲和亚洲。

They can be a way to come together or it could be a cultural norm in some countries like in Europe and Asia.

奥布里，这很常见吗？

What is it common Aubrey?

你做过一些研究吗？

Did you research this a little bit?

我是说，我在网上查到的是，在欧洲和亚洲的一些地方，我自己在欧洲也经历过，晚餐时喝葡萄酒或啤酒，有时午餐也这样，是一种社交常态。

I mean, so this is what I found online is that in some parts of Europe and Asia, did experience this in Europe myself Some was that having wine or beer dinner, but also sometimes lunch is a social norm.

这并不被视为不专业，所以我很想听听听众们的看法。

It's not seen as unprofessional, so I would love to hear from listeners out there.

现在是否还是这样，我肯定这取决于公司。

If this is still the case, I'm sure it depends on the company.

当然也取决于具体情况，但这确实很有意思。

It depends on the situation for sure, but it is interesting.

当然，在所有这些建立关系的过程中，我也认识一些不喝酒的人，他们会喝点汤力水之类的。

And of course, with all of this building relationship, all know people who don't drink and they'll have like a tonic water or something.

他们确实有这种选择。

Know they have.

他们可能拿的是无酒精的饮料。

They're maybe holding a drink that's non alcoholic.

当然，这从来不是问题，因为我知道有些人不喝酒，可能会觉得没法在这种场合建立关系而感到沮丧。

Of course, that's never a problem because I know there are people out there who don't drink that might feel frustrated that they can't be in this situation building relationships.

当然，这并不排除他们。

Of course, that's not excluded to them.

是的，你知道我怀孕的时候，体验了一下那种情况，点那种加柠檬的水，挺有意思的。

Yeah, you know when I was pregnant, was interesting experiencing that being in that side of things and ordering like the water with the with the lime.

而且它……

And it...

其实，我并没有想象中那么觉得被排除在外。

Actually, I didn't feel as excluded as I thought I I would.

你知道吗？

Know?

其实我觉得偶尔不喝酒也挺清爽的，比如头脑清醒之类的。

Actually said it was kind of refreshing to not be drinking for a change, like to feel clear minded and that kind of thing.

但如果你不喝酒，时间长了确实会有这种感觉。

But you could, I guess over time you could feel that for sure if you're not drinking.

对，所以喝酒确实有帮助。

Yeah, so it does help.

知道这点挺好的，对吧？

That's good to know, right?

而且你随时可以假装自己怀孕了。

And you can always just pretend you're pregnant.

对，也许这对男士们不太管用，但我们可以克服这个问题。

Yeah, maybe that wouldn't work for the men out there, but we can get over that.

当然。

For sure.

还有别的吗，Aubrey？

And what else, Aubrey?

你有什么

What are

能促进一些非正式的交流，对吧？

Enhance some informal communication, right?

我们能理解为什么交易更容易达成，对吧？

We can understand why deals are made more right?

它能鼓励讨论，让我们稍微放下一些拘谨，对吧？

It encourage discussions where a little our inhibitions are down a little bit?

对，我的意思是，我们喜欢和喜欢的人做生意，而且我觉得喝酒的时候，我们可能更喜欢身边的人。

Yeah, I mean we do business with people we like and I think we probably like the people around us more when we're drinking.

我的意思是，这基本上就是最终会发生的情况。

I mean, that's just the, you know, kind of what ends up happening.

那我们来分享一些反对饮酒的理由吧。

So let's share some of the arguments against drinking alcohol.

我们已经分享了一些，但这确实很有意思。

We've kind of shared some of them, but it is interesting.

有时候这关系到你的职业形象，对吧？

It is sometimes about your professional image, right?

我很喜欢……

I loved...

我很高兴听到有人说，不管别人喝不喝酒，我最多只喝两杯，因为最糟糕的情况就是如果你失控了，说了些清醒时不会说的话。

I enjoyed hearing this that some people are like, regardless of whether people are drinking or not, I would never have more than two drinks because the worst thing that could happen is if you do lose control of your behavior, saying something you wouldn't if you were sober.

我们当然希望在同事和同行面前避免这种情况，是的，你

We Like would want to avoid that, of course, around coworkers and colleagues and Yeah, you

必须保护自己的职业声誉。

have to guard your professional reputation.

这就像那个著名的公司节日聚会，对吧？

This is famous, like the famous company work holiday work party, right?

总有人搞砸了，喝得酩酊大醉，对吧？

Someone always botches it and ends up getting really drunk, right?

在大公司里。

With big companies.

是的，没错。

Yes, exactly.

第二天大家都在议论他们，他们真的很后悔。

Really regrets it that everyone's talking about them the next day.

你不想成为那个人。

You don't wanna be that person.

对，没错。

Right, exactly.

所以这肯定会降低判断力和工作效率，对吧？

So definitely could be reduced judgment and productivity, right?

现在我们很多人都在网上工作。

A lot of us work online now.

如果我去参加商务午餐，喝一杯，然后回家，我就想打个盹。

If I were to go to a business lunch and have a drink, come home, I would want to nap.

剩下的时间就不想工作了，

Would not wanna work the rest Record of the

比如录播客什么的。

the podcast or something.

没错。

Exactly.

我觉得如果你在家工作，确实更难，你知道，就像《广告狂人》里那样。

It's definitely harder, I think, if you work from home, know, on Mad Men.

他们会回到办公室。

Would go back to the office.

他们做他们该做的事，但确实，可能效率会低一些。

They're doing whatever they do, but yeah, probably less productive.

对，没错。

Right, exactly.

然后是包容性。

And then inclusivity.

奥布里，跟我们说说这个。

Aubrey, tell us about this.

好的，这挺有意思的。

Yeah, so this is interesting.

就像我们刚才提到的，当然，不是每个人都喝酒。

As we were sort of mentioning, of course, not everyone drinks.

有的人可能怀孕了。

Someone might be pregnant.

也可能是因为宗教、健康恢复，或者只是个人喜好。

Could be about religion, health recovery, or just personal preference.

如果工作活动或午餐时提供酒水，就可能会有人感到被排斥或不舒服。

And if there are is alcohol at work events or alcohol being served during a lunch, there is a chance someone would feel excluded or uncomfortable.

所以我觉得留意客户和同事的举动很重要。

So I think it is important to pay attention to what clients and coworkers are doing.

但如果有人不想喝酒，或者觉得喝酒不舒服。

But always, if someone doesn't want to drink, doesn't feel comfortable drinking.

当然，你可以选择无酒精饮料，我觉得在全球文化中，重要的是要这样。

Of course, you can just have the beverage that's non alcoholic, and I think it's important as a global culture to be like.

林赛，我很高兴听到你怀孕时没有感到被排斥。

I love to hear that Lindsay that you were pregnant and didn't feel excluded.

这完全不是问题。

It wasn't a problem.

对每个人来说都应该是这样。

That's how it should be for everyone.

我们不应该让人感到被排斥。

We shouldn't be making people feel excluded.

完全同意。

100%.

而且现在有个趋势，就是喝酒越来越少，尤其是在年轻一代中。

And there is a trend in the direction of drinking less, especially among younger generations.

所以我觉得，这会……

So I mean, I think this will...

看看这个说法会不会成真，会很有意思。

It'll be interesting to see if this thesis comes true.

是回到五十年代那种情况，还是很多代人都减少饮酒，这真的会发生。

This does happen if we revert back to the fifties or if we go more in the direction of a lot of generations kind of reducing their drinking.