但为何要倒带——与格蕾丝·蒂莫西谈多动症

是啊。

Yeah.

这确实对男孩来说更容易适应，字面上看他们就能更自由地活动，对吧？

Which, yeah, again, is easier for a boy to wriggle around in that space quite literally, isn't it?

但这就太耗人了，难怪会对你的心理健康造成影响，因为你真的在拼命努力去……

But, that's a that's an exhaust so no wonder it has impact on your mental health because, yeah, you're working so hard to try and yeah.

就为了迎合别人，真的太累了。

Just just to conform, is Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

这不简直太离谱了吗？

It's wild, isn't it?

所以你通过播客接触的这些女性，你刚才说她们是非二元性别吗？

So are you seeing when through your podcast, just that you're speaking did you say that women are non binary?

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你有没有发现大家的经历中有一些共同点？

And are you seeing commonalities in people's journeys?

对。

Yeah.

首先，我看到每个人的经历都差别巨大。

I mean, first of all, I'm seeing such a diversity between everybody.

简直不可思议，每个人的表现方式都不一样。

Like it's crazy how different it presents in each person.

但所有我聊过的人，不管他们是早诊断还是晚诊断——大多数人都是晚诊断的——都有一个共同点：他们一直戴着面具，直到确诊后，经过理解和消化，才真正做回自己。

But there is this constant throughout all the people I've spoken to, whether they were diagnosed early on or late, most of them were late, that they have masked, and that their true self hasn't come out until they've had a diagnosis and have been able to process and work through that diagnosis.

你知道吗，很多时候，是药物让他们第一次意识到生活还可以是这样。

You know, medication quite often has been the thing that's that's made them realize what life could be like.

但我觉得最核心的，就是那种格格不入的感觉，以及不明白自己为什么总是这样。

But I think that's the main thing is this this sense of just being other, and not understanding why.

就像我，白人、顺性别、异性恋，大概也算中产吧。

And particularly like me, I'm I'm white, cis het, you know, I suppose middle classy.

我就知道自己跟别人不一样，但就像你说的，我说不出个所以然来，没这个词儿。

And I just knew that I was different, but I couldn't, like you say, I couldn't put a word to Have a language.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

就是这个意思。

Exactly.

我觉得这正是关键所在。

I think that's what it's about.

关键是帮人们找到这种表达方式，让他们能为自己发声，也要清楚意识到，女性的声音往往不被重视。

It's about empowering people to have that language and advocate themselves and be very aware that women also aren't listened to in the same way.

很多研究都表明，在医疗环境中，你得花更多力气去争取，还得把症状说得清清楚楚才行。

We know this from so much research that in health care settings, you know, you have to fight that a little bit harder and you have to be so articulate about what it is that's going on.

这其实是多动症的一个特点，你确实很难应付这些事。

And that's a trait of ADHD is that you struggle with that.

所以啊，确实挺难的。

So, yeah, it's difficult.

我觉得整个播客系列里，医疗资源的问题一直特别突出。

And I think, I think that the issues around the healthcare provisions as well has been so prevalent throughout the podcast series.

不管有没有钱去私立机构，大家伙儿都挺挣扎的。

Like everybody has struggled whether they've had the, you know, finances to go private or not.

费用实在太高了。

The costs are prohibitive.

贵得离谱。

They're so expensive.

我倒是确诊了，但后面根本继续不起治疗，价格太疯狂了。

So like I got diagnosed, but I then couldn't continue with treatment because it was crazy expensive.

所以从某种意义上说，我其实也没好到哪儿去，根本没享受到任何支持。

So I'm really, I'm in this one sense no better off because I haven't been able to access any of the kind of support.

但另一方面，我一直在做自己这件事，快三十八年了。

But on the other hand, you know, I'm doing my own thing that I've been doing for thirty, thirty eight years now.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且确实管用，你看你这不是挺好的嘛。

And it's worked, you know, you're Yeah.

能撑到现在，说实话真不容易。

Holding it I mean, is the Yeah.

这整个流程简直疯了，对吧？

The process is mad, isn't it?

但咱们也别怪NHS，大家都懂。

And, you know, there's no shade on anything on the NHS because we know.

不不不。

No, no, no.

可就是根本挂不上号。

But it's impossible to access it.

如果你不能自费看病，得等七年。

If you didn't couldn't do it privately, seven years.

我的意思是，七年啊，这简直浪费了人生大半辈子。

I mean, seven years is an insane amount of life, Yeah.

但说真的，这事儿特别讽刺，我常拿自己有阅读障碍来打比方——那些表格啊、流程啊，我老是搞不定。

Isn't But also I think the irony of it, and again, I compare it to being dyslexic, where I would struggle with some of the forms and stuff.

对于注意力缺陷多动障碍的人来说，要自己拼凑出诊断、再理清用药方案，这过程其实特别烧脑，真的挺难的。

The actual process of having to piece together a diagnosis and then sort out the medication is actually quite challenging for an ADHD mind, I think, or could be.

这不就是最大的讽刺吗？

And this is the irony, isn't it?

当你最需要帮助的时候，整个流程却像天方夜谭，说实话，就跟心理危机时那种无助感一模一样。

When you most need help, yeah, it feels like an unfathomable process, A bit bit like in mental health crisis, to be honest.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得确实如此。

I think that it's yeah.

当你抑郁的时候，真的连爬起来的力气都没有，你知道吧。

It's it's, you know, in when I've had depression, it's very difficult to have the energy even to go, right.

我知道自己得去，得去搞定这件事，可就是动不了。

I need to go and I need to chase I my need to do this.

对啊。

Yeah.

就是这么回事。

Exactly.

哪怕找你妈、你伴侣，或者随便谁帮个忙都行。

Or just ask even like your mom or, you know, your partner or whatever.

说白了，ADHD 就是自我调节和过滤能力的缺失。

So, There's definitely that basically, ADHD is about a lack of regulation and a lack of filter.

不是你没注意到周围人盯着你看，心里在想‘她怎么这样’。

So it's not that you're not aware of everything that's going on or that that person's looking at you going, what is she on?

而是你根本控制不住自己。

It's that you just can't do anything about it.

你真的做不到吗？

You can't Really?

找办法去调节，我的意思是，我不太想用‘正常’这个词，但就是让生活更有序一点。

Find a way to, yeah, to regulate and to, I mean, I hate to use the word normal, but to normalize.

就是，真的太难了，特别特别难。

It's just, that's just, it's very, very, very difficult, very difficult.

我觉得药物在这方面太关键了。

And I think medication is so key to that.

我见过好多朋友服药后，整个人都焕然一新了。

I've I've seen so many of my friends just like blossom.

真的吗？

Really?

是啊。

Yeah.

效果简直惊人。

It makes an incredible impact.

而且我之前跟我的心理医生聊过这事

And I think, I mean, I was talking to my psychiatrist.

他一说‘行，那我给你开这个药’，

As soon as he said, right, I'm gonna prescribe this.

我当时立马就拒绝了，说不行，绝对不行

I was like, no, god, no.

我那时候觉得绝对不能吃药，怕药物会抹掉我的创造力，连我仅存的那点精力都会被夺走

I'm not gonna touch meds because you're gonna take away my creativity and any energy that I have and stuff.

然后他就说，不对，不是你想的那样。

And he was like, no, that's not what it is.

药物其实是帮你把精力用在该用的地方，把各项状态都调到平稳的水平。

It's about like focusing that energy where it needs to be focused and leveling things out.

我想问下关于ADHD的药，是不是不需要在体内蓄积才能生效啊？

Am I right in saying that with the ADHD medication, can It's not like it needs to build up in your system.

我之前一直以为可以比如周一到周五吃，周末就不吃了。

I understood that you could take it Monday to Friday for argument's sake and then not take it the weekend.

就像戴不戴隐形眼镜一样。

A bit like putting your contact lenses in or not.

对。

Yeah.

这完全是另一种看待药物的方式。

Which is a very different way of thinking about a medication.

你去度假的时候，想全力以赴，那就可以选择不吃。

Now, you were on holiday and you wanna be full throttle you, then you have the option not to.

完全没错。

Completely.

我的意思是，这里面有很多细节。

I mean, there's there's lots of nuances.

当然，能不能随便停药，还得看剂量之类的因素。

Obviously, it depends on like the dosage and stuff as to if you can just drop it automatically.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会突然觉得代谢受影响，整个人累得不行，就像‘天啊，怎么一下子这么没劲’。

Whether you'll get just because I think you get a bit of a hit on your metabolism stuff of just like, god, I'm knackered suddenly having Yeah.

之前一整周都好好的，突然就这样了。

You know, been fine all week.

不过嘛，你想用就用，想停就停，完全看你自己。

But yeah, you can you can come on and off as and when you you want to.

我觉得有些人用到后来，简直就是为了应付一天的工作，比如‘明天我要去办公室一趟’。

And I think some people get to the point where they're using it literally for, like, I'm going into the office for a day.

好。

Mhmm.

我知道那天得靠它集中注意力，但明天我就不用了，照样能撑住。

I know I'm gonna need that focus, but I but I'll be fine tomorrow.

好。

Mhmm.

我觉得这真是太棒了，简直是救命稻草。

And I I think that's I mean, what a godsend.

太棒了。

That's amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

但想通过 NHS 拿到药简直难如登天，毕竟那都是管制药物。

But it is it's just super super difficult to get on the NHS because they tend to be controlled substances.

只有精神科医生才能开处方。

So they can only be prescribed by a psychiatrist.

而要找精神科医生，就得先加入他们的诊疗名单，这中间门槛一个接一个，简直让人绝望。

And obviously to do that, you have to be under psychiatrist care, which means going on another caseload, which is just, it's just like barrier, barrier, barrier.

对。

Yeah.

如果自己花钱找私人诊所，那费用更是高得离谱。

And then obviously it's super expensive if you do it privately.

所以啊，确实挺难的。

So, yeah, it's it's difficult.

所以我现在得学点不靠吃药的办法。

So I've I've got to learn to do stuff that isn't meds for now.

也许有一天，情况会变好吧。

Then maybe, you know, one day things will change.

你觉得哪些方法对你有帮助？

What would that what kind of thing do you find help you?

就是那种裹着巧克力的薯片。

You know, the crisps with the chocolate.

不是啦。

No.

对。

Yeah.

这倒是个不错的起点。

That seems like a very good good place to start.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这玩意儿也没那么多糖，真的。

I mean, it's not like it's riddled with sugar and Yes.

这主意太糟了。

Terrible, terrible idea.

我想说的其实是‘觉察’，但不是那种冥想练习意义上的觉察，而是我更留意自己喝的酒、摄入的咖啡因，还有我这一周的整体状态。

I I think I wanna say mindfulness, but not in the sense of mindfulness as a practice, but more I'm mindful of the alcohol that I drink, the caffeine that I take, the I'm mindful of my week.

如果我运气好，能偶尔去办公室上半天班的话。

So if I'm really, really, really lucky to be able to work in an office setting part time.

那我就知道，上完一天班之后，我得回家一个人待着，好好喘口气。

So I know that maybe after a day in the office, I need to then work from home and just like have some alone time.

我现在特别清楚，带孩子要花多少精力。

I'm very aware now of how I parent and the energy that I need to do that.

有时候我真的得离开一会儿，你知道的，这完全没问题。

Sometimes And I need to step away for a minute and, you know, that's okay.

所以啊，我觉得就是更留意自己怎么生活、吃些什么、吸收些什么。

So, yeah, I'd say it's being more mindful about how I live and what I take in.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得你的生理周期，比如荷尔蒙，会影响你的情绪吗？

Do you find that your cycle, like your hormones have an impact on how how you are?

是的。

Yeah.

但我还没完全搞清楚具体是怎么影响的。

But it's I don't I haven't quite worked out yet how.

我得 basically 记个日记。

I need to keep a diary basically.

这又是我最不擅长的了。

And that's again, of my worst.

像计划本、日记本这类东西，我根本坚持不下来，太难了。

Like, I just can't commit to things like that at all, like planners and journals and stuff I find difficult.

但确实会有影响。

But yes, it absolutely does.

其实通过播客跟很多女性聊天，聊到更年期前期、怀孕这些事的时候，

And actually talking to women through the podcast, things like perimenopause and pregnancy.

我回想一下，我 ADHD 最严重的时候，要么是八九岁那会儿激素突然飙升，要么就是吃避孕药的时候，

I mean, when I look through when my ADHD has been at worst, it's been when I've had that initial hormone surge as an eight to 10 year old, It's been going on a pill.

或者是怀孕期间。

It's been pregnancy.

这事儿百分百跟激素脱不了干系。

You know, it's definitely tied in a hundred percent.

我觉得这方面的研究其实越来越多了，但说到底，咱们的大脑在健康研究里的优先级，可能只比阴道高那么一丁点儿。

And I think again, the research is growing in that area, but it's still, you know, it's like our brains are probably only second in importance to our vaginas in terms of health research.

是啊。

Yeah.

说到底，有谁真正在意呢？

Know, who who kinda cares?

我朋友总说，PMT 其实是‘永久性大实话’的意思。

My friend always says that PMT stands for permanent mega truth.

我总在想，当我们激素波动的时候，其实根本撑不住了——说实话，那时候你再也装不下去了，心里就一句：管他呢。

And I always wonder whether actually when those bits when we're like hormonal, it's when we can no longer keep and peri to be honest, all those points, when you can't kinda keep up the facade anymore, it's just like, oh, fuck it.

这时候我才真的生气了，或者我就是觉得特别累，扛不住了，再也演不了那个乖女孩了。

This actually I am actually really cross with you or I am feeling this and I am overwhelmed and I can't play the nice girl card anymore.

我一直在想，会不会真的就是这么回事。

And I I do wonder whether that actually is what happened.

你就是……

It's just that you yeah.

你再也躲不开那些你拼命装出来的假象了。

You can no longer hide behind everything you've been trying so hard to front.

我得把这个记下来。

I need to write that down.

这个观点太棒了，克莱米，确实百分百如此，这跟你平时伪装的难度完全不一样。

That's such an insight, Clemmie, because, like, that's 100%, like, the get different challenges to your masking.

比如说你喝醉了，很明显，那种伪装的能力就撑不住了。

And I think like if you're drunk for example, like obviously the ability to mask like kind of drops away a bit.

所以你平时其实特有意思。

Which means you're super fun most of the time.

或者干脆就是个灾难。

Or you're a complete nightmare.

但没错，经前综合征真不是闹着玩的。

But yeah, a 100% PMT is just is real.

我觉得关键是要分清楚，到底有多少情绪是激素在作祟，让我特别难过。

And I think But again, about it's picking out how much of this is like, the hormones making me feel really sad.

我的情绪控制能力一直不太好。

Like, my emotional regulation is is not great.

现在年纪大了倒是好点了，但我真的特别容易哭。

It's better now I'm older actually, but I I'm very quick to cry.

你懂的，也不一定全是这样。

You know, not necessarily

我看过说，女性容易哭其实是ADHD的一个关键表现。

I read that as a I read that that can be a key symptom of ADHD in women, that we're quick to cry.

是的。

Yeah.

但作为21世纪的女性，来月经还要面对这么多挑战，想哭又有什么奇怪的呢？

But then also like being a woman in the twenty first century and having your period and having all the challenges that we, you know, is it any wonder that we wanna cry a lot of time?

真的很难说清楚。

It's difficult to know.

不过，情绪不稳定确实是专家们正努力纳入诊断标准的一点，因为这对女性的生活影响最大。

But yeah, emotional lability is one of the things that they're trying, experts are trying to introduce to the criteria for diagnosis, because actually that's one of the most damaging to a woman's life is that emotional lability.

毕竟这会影响人际关系，包括你在职场的表现、育儿方式——这些才是最难熬的部分。

Because obviously that affects relationships, even like your kind of behavior in the workplace, parenting, you know, that's the stuff that's difficult to live with.

对。

Yeah.

而且像你说的，其实不想哭也没用，流泪本身对身体调节情绪很有帮助。

And but then it's also, as you say, like, oh, you don't wanna cry, actually the crying is also really useful for your body to to regulate itself.

问题只在于，我们总害怕女人一哭就是失控、发疯了。

And it's only if we we feel fearful of a a woman crying that she's losing it or that she's mad.

不是。

No.

我昨天下午就突然哭了一场，就这么回事。

So often, I just yesterday, I just had a bit of a cry in the middle of the afternoon.

没别的原因。

Nothing more to it.

没人需要帮我，也没发生什么特别的事。

No one needed to help me or nothing was particularly wrong.

就是有点荷尔蒙波动，加上太累了，哭了一场，感觉立马好多了。

I was a bit hormonal, a bit knackered, had a cry and felt so much better.

我们给哭泣加了太多额外的含义，觉得女孩子或者任何人突然哭出来都是丢脸的事。

So it's like the things that we've layered onto that, that that is a terrible faux pas for a girl to be, or anyone to be bursting into tears.

但哭不就是一种情绪的表达吗？

But crying is just another expression of emotion, isn't it?

完全对。

Oh, completely.

我觉得这正是ADHD的特点——你可能根本没那个滤网，分不清什么时候该收敛行为。

And I think that's the thing with ADHD is that you don't have the filter necessarily to know when those behaviors are appropriate.

我反而想问，谁说这些行为就不该有呢？

And I'm a bit like, but who said that those behaviors weren't appropriate?

这又是社会、父权、资本主义……一堆东西堆出来的所谓‘理想标准’。

That's like, again, it's like society, it's the patriarchy, it's capitalism, it's all those things have fed into this ideal.

其实你留意一下，那些最积极想打破这些框架的人，往往就是神经多样性群体。

And actually, you know, when you look at the people who are talking about dismantling those things, it's quite often a neurodiverse person, neurodivergent person.

所以啊，也许正是这种没滤网、无所畏惧、有时候根本装不出来的特质，反而让我们能做出真正重要的贡献。

So there is that sense of like, actually, maybe we can be making a really meaningful contribution with that lack of filter and that sort of fearlessness and, and just lack of ability sometimes to mask.

我觉得这特别重要。

I think that's really important.

没错。

Yeah.

而且说实话，我到现在才意识到，原来社会本身能这么摧残人——我羞于启齿，但直到发现它严重影响了我的心理健康，我才明白，这跟我ADHD息息相关。

But also it just, I mean, it's and I'm really ashamed to say it, but I didn't know quite how debilitating the just society can be until I realized it was one of the things that was impacting my mental health and as a person with ADHD.

我真希望早点明白这些，多为自己和别人发声，但想想看，社会偏偏把我们身上那些特别棒的特质，硬说成是缺点，这简直太荒谬了。

And I wish I'd known sooner and been more of an advocate and more of an ally, but like, it's just crazy when you look at the way that society is formed to completely make those things that actually are really great about us into kind of flaws.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我们说的可不是什么小众群体，那些边缘中的边缘。

And also, we're not talking about niche, the tiny niches of society.

你想想，但凡你有点自闭、读写障碍、多动症这些，回头一看，你朋友圈里、平时相处的人里，十有八九都这样。

These are these are know, when you begin to go, yeah, might you have autism or dyslexia or ADHD or any of these things, you're like, oh, I wriggle through my friendship group or the people that I, you know, spend my time with.

大家都会心一笑：对啊，估计我也是。

They're like, yeah, probably, yeah.

可我们每个人都在做着了不起的事。

And you're you're all achieving wonderful things.

尤其是现在，我快四十了，发现很多人其实是慢慢调整了自己的生活，才让这些神经多样性变成了优势。

But mainly actually now as we I head towards my late thirties, forties, because they've managed to shape their lives to perhaps hopefully to that neurodiversity.

但如果你没找到适合自己的方式，那日子真的会特别特别难熬，对吧？

But if you hadn't, it could be a really, really tough, tough existence, couldn't it?

我觉得很重要的一点是，当我们看到杂志里、电视上、播客里那些有注意力缺陷多动障碍的人时，他们往往都是那种把这事儿转化了、还干出点名堂的人。

Well, I think it's really important to acknowledge as well that when we like see people in magazines that have ADHD and on telly in podcasts and all that kind of thing that, you know, it is the people who have like channeled it somehow and have achieved things that are sort of noteworthy or whatever.

或者说，至少是别人觉得挺了不起的人。

Or, you know, people think are noteworthy.

但实际上，监狱里的女性里，大概有百分之二十六都患有ADHD。

But actually there are, you know, I think something like twenty six percent of women in prison have ADHD.

这些故事你很少听到。

You don't hear those stories so often.

这确实是个大问题，没得跑。

You know, there's, it's just, it is, it is a problem for sure.

我不太喜欢用‘障碍’‘缺陷’这类词，因为其实……

I don't like to say disorder or deficiency or any of those things because actually

挑战，没错。

Challenge, yeah.

对，这确实是个挑战。

Yeah, it's definitely challenge.

我觉得这个挑战根本不是来自神经发育本身。

And I think that the challenge isn't down to the neurodevelopmental issue.

不幸的是，问题出在周围人的结构和环境上。

It's down to the structure around that person, unfortunately.

你看硅谷就特别会用自闭症和多动症的人，这到底是怎么做到的？

I mean, like Silicon Valley is making amazing use of people with autism and ADHD because How's actually that?

说白了，这些人真有超能力。

I mean, it's there are superpowers.

‘超能力’这词儿都快被用烂了，但事实就是有。

That again is such a cliche term and it's But so there are.

确实有这种能力。

There are powers.

对。

Yeah.

咱们得记住这些真正的优点。

We have to remember the real positives.

不过，这也不是完全一样的情况。

Again, it's not not exactly the same.

但如果你让我明天就摆脱阅读障碍，我肯定不干。

But if you gave me the choice to get rid of being dyslexic tomorrow, wouldn't take it.

你知道吗，它带来的那些好处，真是一种天赋。

You know, it's a gift for the good parts of it.

我相信，得注意力缺陷或多动症、自闭症的人也一样，只要你找到了适合自己的位置。

And I'm sure, yeah, with ADHD and autism, that is exactly the same if if you can find your place in the world.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得当初我们聊着要做这个播客的时候，我翻了不少节目，发现好多创业者都在说，多动症其实特别有帮助。

I think when we were talking about doing the podcast, I was looking at podcasts basically, and there were lots of kind of entrepreneurs talking about how ADHD can be so helpful.

还有不少内容讲的是怎么带有多动症的孩子。

And there was lots of things about parenting children with ADHD.

但我当时就想，那像我这样的普通女性呢？

But I was like, what about just I'm just a woman.

我就想安安静静地等公交，别老对人发脾气。

Like, I wanna sit still and not bitch at people when I'm waiting for the bus.

我想在孩子情绪崩溃的时候能好好陪着她，而不是自己也撑不住。

I wanna, like, be able to support my child in her difficult emotional moments without having a challenge myself.

我就想做个更好的朋友、更好的妻子、更好的妈妈，这些我都想做到。

Like, I just wanna be like a better friend and a better wife and a better mother and all those things.

可实际上，这类东西根本找不到。

And actually, stuff's not out there.

哪怕只是听到有人和你有同样的困扰，你才明白自己不是个混蛋，有时候这就足够让你松一口气了。

And even if that's just hearing someone else has the same challenges as you and you're not an asshole, that's enough sometimes to make you be like, okay.

对啊。

Right.

来吧，开始了。

Here we go.

不就是这么回事吗？

That's it, isn't it?

这并不是说你这个人有问题，才得这么折腾。

Just to That it's not a comment on you as a person that you have to navigate things in this way.

你觉得因为这个，育儿过程中有没有哪些特别让你觉得难的地方？

Have you found do you think you have found aspects of parenting particularly challenging as a result of this?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我对当个好父母有自己的执念。

I think because I have a really fixed idea of how I want to be a parent.

对。

Mhmm.

我看了好多育儿书，这类东西都翻遍了。

And I read all the books and all that kind of stuff.

其实挺有意思的，我女儿刚出生时，很多人说我太较真了。

And it was really interesting actually because like there were lots of comments when I first had my daughter about how much I was reading into it.

他们那种态度，就是笑呵呵地说：‘你等着瞧吧。’

And it's because and like kind of that scoffing of like, oh, you wait.

书里写的那些东西，真到了育儿的战场上，根本帮不上忙。

You won't, you know, the books won't help you when you're in the sort of trenches of it.

那时候我只知道，我脑子里唯一能想到的应对方式，就是拼命查资料，想搞懂一切，好让自己有点掌控感。

And it was the only way that I knew, my brain knew, how to prepare and feel like I had some control was to research and and try and understand things.

但实际发生的时候，我根本用不上那些所谓的智慧，因为孩子很多行为都会特别容易触发我。

And actually what happens is I'm not able to necessarily draw on those wisdoms in the moment because there are lots of kind of behaviors that I find really triggering.

现在我总算能意识到这一点了。

And now I'm able to acknowledge that.

希望还不算太晚，我还能重新找回那份我一直想保持的耐心和温柔。

Hopefully, it's not too late and I'm able to kind of wrestle back that compassion I want to constantly have.

但有时候我真的只能跟孩子说：宝贝，妈妈得先走开一会儿，因为要是她发脾气，比如，我……我就会忍不住哭出来。

But sometimes I have had to just be like, darling, I need to I need to walk away for a minute because the if it's a tantrum, for example, I I I it's not that I'll ever get really, really angry and there's there's not like anything explosive and I don't tantrum myself, but it's just I I'll I'll like cry or

是的。

Yeah.

你脑子真的会直接短路。

Your brain fries basically.

是的。

Yeah.

我就是用不上那些我知道该用的好方法或策略。

And I just I can't use like the good tactics that I know that I should use or strategies.

不知怎么的，就是想不起来。

For some reason, just don't come to me.

我就只能站在那儿哭啊，或者啥的。

I'm just stood there like crying or, you know, whatever.

我不希望她经历这个。

And I don't want that for her.

我希望她能，你知道的，拥有最好的一切。

I want her to, you know, I want her to have the best.

当然了。

Of course I do.

而且说实话，我发现我的耐心……那词儿叫啥来着？

And yeah, I definitely I've I've just found that my patience is what's the word?

有时候确实有点不稳定。

I suppose erratic a little bit sometimes.

没个准谱儿。

It's not regulated.

对。

Mhmm.

有时候我能特别淡定，为自己当妈的方式感到骄傲。

So sometimes I can be really chill and be really proud of the way I've parented.

但偶尔也会想，唉，要是能想起那些特别棒的育儿话术就好了，就是那种温柔管教该说的那些。

Then there are the odd occasion where I think, oh, I wish I had just remembered those amazing words that you're supposed to in terms of like gentle parenting and all of that stuff.

而不是直接崩了，受不了了。

Rather than just being like, I can't take this.

我得赶紧离开房间。

I have to leave the room.

实在听不下去了，哭啊闹啊，啥都行，我真扛不住了。

I can't take any more whining or screaming or whatever it is.

你懂的。

You know?

但说到底，这不就是当父母的常态吗？

But I mean, also that is just parenting, isn't it?

我只希望我能成为自己心里那个理想的父母，可现实远比想象中难多了。

All I just hope that we could be be the be the parent we had in our heads, but it's so much harder than that.

真的难太多了。

It's so much harder than that.

是啊。

Yeah.

我这么说，其实是在安慰自己：没关系的。

And I I mean, I'm it's this is me trying to, like, tell myself it's okay.

这几年真是疯了。

It's been a mad couple of years.

对。

Mhmm.

可不是吗？

Hasn't it?

你懂的。

You know?

我最近才意识到，我们真的陪孩子陪得太多了。

Even I've just been realizing we've just actually spent too much time with these kids.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我不是不想陪他们，但真的没一刻消停。

And that's not that I don't want to spend all the time in the world with them, but you've got no let up.

要调节自己的激素状态，大人小孩都得有喘息的空间，这事儿是双向的。

And and in order to regulate yourself through your hormones as a person, you need to and they need to actually, it works two ways.

我真觉得我孩子肯定想躲我远远的。

I really, really definitely think my kids wanna be away from me somewhere.

你们俩就这么互相惹毛了。

And you just basically have got to the point you wind each other up the wrong way.

说真的，我女儿也是独生女，我小时候也是独生子女。

Mean, can think also my my daughter is an only child as well, and I was an only child, really.

我有继兄弟姐妹，但大家不住一块儿。

I had stepsiblings, but we didn't all live together.

我注意到她老陷在你和我之间的这种三角关系里。

And I noticed a lot with her, you know, she's stuck in this kind of love triangle with my husband and I.

有时候她真需要有人站出来说句公道话，比如‘你爸妈有时候真够呛’。

And actually sometimes she needs someone to be like, oh, they could be real assholes sometimes.

别在意那些事儿。

Don't worry about Yeah.

你懂我意思吧？

Like, do you know what I mean?

她没兄弟姐妹，没法这么干。

She needs to she doesn't have a sibling to do that.

她真的得跟朋友待在一起。

She So needs to be with her friends.

就像你说的，她需要在外面学会自我调节，而不是总靠我们当她的安全阀，让她发脾气什么的。

And like you say, to learn to regulate outside of us constantly being like, I don't know, like a safe space for her to tantrum or whatever.

她需要有人能真真切切地告诉她：不行。

She needs to actually have other people to tell her like, no.

缺了这种人，可不行。

Not having that kinda thing.

而且我觉得，你所展现的榜样作用——说实话，这也是我在提醒自己：我其实挺好的。

And also, I think what you're modeling, and I again, this is me trying to tell myself I'm okay.

如果我失控了，没按自己理想的方式当妈——这事儿挺常发生的——但至少我能重新回到她身边，承认这一点，对吧。

If I have lost it and not behaved in the way that not parented in the way that I like, which is frequent, being able to come back into the room and acknowledge that Mhmm.

我觉得更重要的是，这并不等于说我的行为就对了，但这些经历其实给了孩子很好的教训：妈妈也是个复杂、情绪化、正在努力的人，学会坦然面对自己的不完美，我想这反而能教得更好。

And then I think is also, you know, it doesn't make it okay, but they are really great lessons to say, you know, mommy is complicated and emotional and trying my best and knowing when to acknowledge that yourself, I think hopefully teaches them well.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的希望如此。

I really hope so.

对。

Yeah.

我们一直都很注意，出问题了就道歉，好好聊聊，说清楚哪里做得不对。

There's a lot of, there are, you know, we've always made sure that we apologize and talk about something and be like, this is where we messed up.

而且我觉得我们也没少聊ADHD的事。

And I think also we've talked about ADHD a lot.

你们聊过吗？

Have you?

肯定有人会觉得，哎呀，她知道得太多了吧，根本没必要让她知道这些。

And I'm sure there are some people who would say like, maybe, you know, she knows too much in terms of like, maybe she doesn't need to know it at all.

但我挺认同这个想法：让她明白大脑的差异，以及处理方式的不同。

But I like the idea that she understands the difference in brains and the difference in approaches.

我跟我老公就完全不同。

Like, my husband and I are so different.

他啊，根本看不出有任何神经多样性方面的表现。

He, you know, doesn't display any kind of sign of any neurodivergence at all.

他特别放松，特别随性，整个人就一个字：淡定。

And he's incredibly relaxed and very, very laid back and it's all chill.

真羡慕啊。

Oh, lucky.

说真的，真是谢天谢地。

I mean, thank goodness.

对啊，我懂，我懂。

I know, I know.

我其实有点嫉妒他。

I hate him a little bit.

我觉得让她明白这一点很重要。

And I think I think it's important for her to understand that.

而且呢，她将来会不会表现出多动症也不好说，毕竟这病是通过母系遗传的。

And also because she's I mean, I don't know if she'll display any ADHD at some point because it is supposed to be genetic through the mother's side.

真的吗？

Really?

对啊。

Yeah.

不过，确实如此。

Although, yeah.

我的意思是，这方面还有很多研究要做。

I mean, I think I think there's still a lot of research to be done on that as well.

但确实是有联系的。

But yeah, there is a link.

至于她在学校里的同龄人，还有将来上中学的时候，是的。

But in terms of her cohort at school and when she goes to secondary school, Yeah.

我希望她不仅能包容，更能去关爱那些人，理解人与人之间的不同。

I want her to be not even tolerant, but supportive and loving towards those people and understand there's difference.

我觉得，不像我们小时候，总说‘那孩子真烦人’。

And I think rather than when we were kids where it was like, oh, that kid's a real pain in the ass.

特别难，可能会被排挤那种情况。

Really difficult, like, gonna get excluded kind of thing.

我就希望她能有这种意识，你知道的。

Like that, you know, I'd love for her to to have that kind of awareness.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

她确实会的。

She definitely yeah.

你只能希望他们会。

You can only hope that yeah.

他们会的。

That they will.

你真的说不准。

You you just don't know.

不是。

No.

我就知道会这样。

That's how know.

不过再说回哭这件事，我确实挺感性的，你也知道。

But again, around the crying thing, it's something I've you know, as I say, I'm emotional.

我孩子经常看到我哭，我就是想让他们明白，这没什么好怕的。

My kids see me cry quite a lot, and I really want them to know that there's nothing to be scared of.

只是发生了不好的事。

There's something bad happening.

这很正常。

It's just a thing.

所以啊，我觉得他们过得挺好的。

And and as such, yeah, that think they're really good lives.

这些经历反而是他们成长的好帮手。

They're good tools for going in.

如果孩子在课堂上情绪外露，情况也是一样的。

And the same if you've got a child that is emotional in the classroom.

最糟糕的就是，当你已经情绪低落了，还要再被贴上内疚、羞耻和尴尬的标签。

Because there's nothing worse than if you are emotional of like laddering guilt and shame and embarrassment on top of that.

完全没错。

A 100%.

我觉得这跟多动症有关的另一点是，你的自尊心可能已经被一点点磨掉很多年了。

And I think that's another thing with ADHD is though that your self esteem has been chipped away for so many years.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在我当妈妈的过程中，那些我读过的书就像安全毯一样，给了我支撑，让我觉得自己其实可以比想象中做得更好——你懂我的意思吧？

So when it comes to my parenting, those books and things that I read were like security blankets and some sort of like support for myself to make me think that I could be better than I thought I was, if you know what I mean?

对。

Mhmm.

因为我知道她值得拥有比我自以为能给的更好的生活。

And because I knew she deserved better than who I thought I was.

说到管理自己的情绪这些事，真的更难，因为你一想就慌：天啊。

And I think so in terms of, like, owning your emotions and all that stuff, it's just harder because you think, oh, no.

但这其实是我自己在耍脾气，我不想让她觉得我是这种人。

But this is me being an asshole, and I, you know, I don't want her to think that I'm that person.

我希望她能信任我，觉得跟我在一起特别安心，一切都稳稳的。

I want her to trust me and feel, you know, completely and utterly safe and all that stuff.

所以这里面的东西实在太多了。

So it's there's just a lot.

一层又一层，复杂得很。

There's so many layers going on.

自尊心这个问题真有意思，对吧？

That self esteem thing is really interesting, isn't it?

你明明自尊心很低，但ADHD的一些表现又会让你看起来特别自信，说话做事都特别抢眼。

Because you can be experiencing quite low self esteem, but there's some of the traits of ADHD can make it appear like you're uber confident or you're, you know, quite willingly taking up space in a conversation and in a room.

结果就变成一种自我实现的循环了。

And then it's like this self fulfilling thing.

你觉得，如果小时候就能确诊，又有支持系统，是不是就能避免自尊心受损？

Do you think that if, if you know, you have early diagnosis and a support network that there's a way of it not damaging your self esteem?

说实话，我不太清楚背后的科学依据，毕竟这属于神经发育方面的状况。

Yeah, I don't actually know the science behind, because obviously it's a neurodevelopmental condition.

它不完全是环境造成的。

So it's not like environmental necessarily.

这事儿是刻在你大脑里的。

It's, you know, it's in your brain.

有些东西，大概真的没法逆转。

So there are some things that you just presumably can't undo.

但说到自尊，我觉得我能说清楚它是什么时候开始崩塌的。

But I think in terms of the self esteem, yeah, for me, I can see where it started to fail.

在我八岁之前，上的是个特别轻松的小学，就是个村小。

So when I was kind of before I was eight, basically, I was at a very chill primary school, like little village school.

对。

Mhmm.

一点学业压力都没有。

No academic pressure whatsoever.

我现在还记得，整天在走廊里晃悠，根本没人要求你坐好听话，我也没遇过那种严苛的老师。

And I remember now, like, wandering around the corridors, like, was no kind sit down and behave, and I just never had those kind of teachers.

我特别开心。

I was so happy.

我肯定在别人眼里是个怪孩子，但不知为啥，这反而让我如鱼得水，当个班级开心果啥的，全都没问题。

I was definitely what I think other kids would have thought of as weird, but for some reason it worked, and I was class clown and all that stuff, and it was all okay.

而且我爸妈搞演艺的，我们家本来就被人觉得挺古怪的。

And also my parents were in showbiz, so we were all kind of thought to be a bit eccentric anyway.

所以那时候我确实挺自在的。

And so I did yeah.

那时候根本没人提什么神经多样性这回事。

Obviously, no one was like, neurodivergence.

等我上了下一所学校，一切就全变了，一夜之间我得了强迫症，焦虑、饮食失调，一堆问题全冒出来了。

And then when I went to my next school was when everything changed, and I developed OCD like overnight, and lots of anxiety kind of related issues, and eating disorders, and all that kind of thing.

因为每天早上八点半到下午四点半，都得乖乖坐着。

Because it was a sit down from 08:30 till 04:30.

那是个特别注重学业的预备学校，我只待了十八个月。

Was a really academic prep school for I only lasted for eighteen months.

是啊，确实如此。

And it yeah.

那地方简直糟透了。

It was it was no good.

所以现在回头想想，早年我的创造力和个性其实都被大力鼓励和支持着。

So I think, yeah, looking back that in the early days, you know, my kind of creativity and everything was really, really pushed and supported.

可一旦这些东西被压下去了，我才意识到：天啊，完了。

And then it was only when that was sort of stumped out that it was like, oh, god.

这真的太痛苦了。

This is, you know, this is painful.

所以我确实觉得……

So, I do think that.

我觉得，就连运动这种简单的事，我从来都没真正沾过边。

And I think, I mean, it's even simple things like exercise and sport, I never got into.

说实话，我特别讨厌运动，到现在还是完全提不起劲儿。

Oh, I mean, like, I hate I hate exercise and I still haven't got the right attitude at all about it.

我后来跟一位特别棒的心理学家聊过，叫乔·斯蒂尔博士，她写过一本关于女性和多动症的书。

And I spoke to this amazing psychologist called doctor Jo Steer, who's written a book about women and ADHD.

她说，比如一个篮球队或足球队的教练，如果能明白，得一步步指导、经常确认对方有没有跟上，而不是只说一句：‘好了，同学们，今天练这个’，然后就完事了……

And she was saying that if a coach, for example, like a netball or a football coach, if they understand that they need to deliver instructions and check-in with that person, rather than just be like, okay, class, this is what we're doing.

走吧。

Go.

对多动症的人来说，这种话简直像在说天书。

Which is for an ADHD brain is like, what?

我根本搞不懂。

I don't know.

我就是记不住指令，身体也不听使唤，老是笨手笨脚的，各种状况。

I can't follow instructions and my body doesn't work in the way I think it's going to and I'm clumsy and all those things.

那就在于用一种不同的方式去赋能孩子，完全可以绕开像我这样的人身上积累的那些问题。

Then it's about empowering that child in a slightly different You can completely sidestep all of those issues that have developed in people like me.

我的意思是，我知道娜塔莉·李是我们共同的朋友。

I mean, I know that Natalie Lee is like a mutual friend.

她提到跳舞这件事，其实她也很吃力。

She talks about how dance, like she struggles.

但她发现，跳舞能帮她建立起身体和大脑之间的连接。

She finds it really hard, but it helps that connection between her body and her brain.

她一直觉得自己身体笨拙，跟不上指令，诸如此类的问题，跟我差不多。

Having always felt like her body, you know, that I think she's sort of the same as me, like clumsiness, couldn't follow instructions, all that kind of stuff.

她突然意识到，只要有人希望我做好，让我感到被支持，给我比别人多一点时间去跟上节奏，我就能跟上大家。

She suddenly was like, if I have someone who wants me to do well and I feel supported, and I can take the time to follow and maybe to have a bit of extra time to everyone else, I'm like, I'm there with everyone else.

是的。

Yeah.

那种感觉太棒了。

And it feels amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得，可能自尊心这方面，某种程度上也是这种状况的一部分。

So, I think maybe I think there's elements of self esteem that presumably might be part of the condition.

对。

Yeah.

然后呢——

And then

我觉得还有些完全是社会层面的问题。

I think there's others that are completely societal.

我特别想知道，运动和锻炼方面的这些困难，是女性ADHD更常见，还是男女都差不多？

And what I mean, I'm really interested to know whether there's those challenges with sport and exercise, again, are more common in female ADHD or or whether it runs across both.

但正如你所说，关键还是看你接触到的是什么样的人。

But as you're saying, it's to do with the people that you get in touch with.

如果你有——对，没错。

If you've you yeah.

我知道Nat的舞蹈老师是谁，如果你能找到一个人愿意在你身边陪着你，那就好办了。

I know who Nat's dance teacher is and if you got someone who's willing to stand by your side Mhmm.

而且，咱们都清楚，Nat一旦投入一件事，就会全力以赴。

And then, you know, as we both know Nat, once she's into something, she's gonna give it her all.

是的。

Yeah.

但关键就在于这个坚持的点，对吧？

But you just it's that sticking point, isn't it?

就是得有人牵着我的手，一遍又一遍地重复同样的指导，等我掌握了，我就全明白了。

Of holding my hand, saying the same instructions over and over again until I get it, and then I'm golden.

我觉得你做某些事的时候，可能也存在一个时机窗口。

I think you also have a window maybe with things.

就像我，如果一开始没马上搞懂，我就提不起兴趣，除非有人推我一把，特别关注我，看清楚我到底卡在哪儿。

Like, if I Yeah.

如果我一开始没立刻掌握，我就没兴趣了，除非有人推我一把，特别关注我，看清楚我到底卡在哪儿。

Don't nail something straight away, then I'm just not interested unless someone pushes me and pays attention and really sees, like, where I'm falling down.

挺有意思的。

Interesting.

对，我是觉得。

And I yeah.

我觉得关键就在这儿。

I do I think it's just it's just about that.

其实很多孩子都需要这样，哪怕他们不是神经多样性群体。

And I think there's lots of children who require that who aren't neurodivergent.

就是得多给点支持。

It's just about being more supportive.

善良。

Kindness.

是的。

Yeah.

善良。

Kindness.

是的

Yeah.

完全没错

Completely.

对

Yeah.

说到运动，我当年就是典型例子——上学时从不参加体育课，特别讨厌体育。

And and the the the problem is with sport, I was, you know, the classic case didn't do sport at school, hate to PE.

但其实现在成年后，我特别热爱健身，就是因为小时候没人帮我度过那段不擅长运动的阶段，也没人告诉我：如果你不擅长，就不该玩。

And actually, as an as an adult, I'm really, really into fitness, but it's because I didn't have anyone who helped me through the being not very good at it and who made me feel that if you weren't good at it, you shouldn't do it.

这对我来说真是个巨大的转变。

That's been a real switch for me.

你没必要在爱好上非得擅长。

You don't have to be good at your hobbies.

没错

Mhmm.

你可以做些事情，就因为好玩，而且让身体感觉舒服。

You can do stuff because it's fun, and it makes your body feel good.

对。

Yes.

我

I

是啊。

do.

但如果你本来就不太爱运动，很容易就彻底放弃了。

But, yeah, if you're not a sporty person, you can often fall out of that.

但我们所有人都需要活动。

But we all need to move.

我们都得动起来。

We all need to move our bodies.

是的。

Yeah.

而且你看看那些最著名的运动员，比如西蒙·拜尔斯、游泳界的迈克尔·菲尔普斯，他们其实都有多动症。

And I I think if you look at some of the, like, most famous athletes, like Simone Biles, Michael Phelps as a swimmer, like, they are all ADHD.

因为如果你真的找到了那个能让你全神贯注的兴趣点，那整个世界都会为你敞开。

Because actually, if you if you if you hit it right and you get that interest in hyper focus, then you can you know, the the world's your oyster.

你完全可以变得特别出色。

You can be incredible.

好多职业运动员其实都有多动症。

There are so many professional athletes who have ADHD.

是的。

Yeah.

就是因为那种高度专注的状态。

Because of the hyper focus.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

其实，要是我小时候能对某件事上瘾，情况可能就不一样了。

And actually, if I had if I had latched onto something as a child, you know, it would have been a different story probably.

不过我真没法想象自己当体操运动员的样子。

Although I can't see myself as a gymnast at all.

但谁说得准呢。

But you never know.

别总想着，‘马上就要来了，我马上就要找到那个东西了’。

You might you know, don't always think, oh, any minute now, I'm gonna find it.

好事马上就会发生。

The thing's gonna happen.

我会突然变得特别厉害。

It's gonna be like, I'm gonna be amazing.

但你呢，工作上已经写过书了，平时也靠写作吃饭。

But with your work, you know, you've written a book or you you write for your job.

所以在我看来，这需要极大的专注力，而且你已经找到了自己的方向。

So that involves, in my mind, an awful lot of focus and a lot of being, you know, you have found your thing there.

你有没有那种极度专注的状态啊？

Do you do you experience the hyper focus thing or

是的。

Yeah.

特别喜欢那种感觉。

Love it.

对。

Yeah.

因为这简直就是超能力。

It's so because Superpower.

没错。

Yeah.

完全没错。

Completely.

而且说实话，从长远来看这可能不太健康，但有时候我一专注起来，十二个小时都不上厕所，甚至忘了吃饭。

And it's I mean, like, it's probably not very healthy long term, but like, it gets to the point where I I haven't peed for like twelve hours or Or eating.

对。

Yeah.

或者吃饭。

Or eating.

根本顾不上别的。

It's not anything.

是啊。

Yeah.

我可不是在鼓吹没胃口什么的。

And it's not I'm not like at all championing not having an appetite or anything.

我超爱吃饭的，不是的。

I love I love No.

吃饭。

Eating.

但就是这种专注力特别强，做事特别快、特别高效。

But but it's just that focus is so keen, and you can be incredibly quick and efficient.

要是跟对的人一起干，那真的太棒了。

And if you're working with the right people, you know, it's it's it's amazing.

其实我特别感激这一点。

And I'm so grateful for that, actually.

不过呢，

But, yeah.

我的意思是，自从上一本书出版后，我试着写了两本小说，

I mean, equally, I've tried to write two fiction fiction books since my last book came out.

算起来都快四年了。

So what that's like four years ago.

可就是写不出来。

It's not happening.

压根儿写不出来。

It's not happening.

我现在大概能明白一点，为什么会出现这种情况了。

And I think I understand maybe a little bit more of why that is now.

可能我还没找到那种真正的热情，或者说是那种感觉吧。

I just I don't have the the passion maybe or whatever it is yet.

还没遇到那个让我一拍大腿说‘就是它了’的想法。

I haven't clicked on the right idea that makes me go like, yes.

要是真找到了，我三月就能把它写完。

Like, I can bash this out in three months.

你要相信自己，这种感觉迟早会来的——你可是有整个写作生涯作底子的人。

So it's having faith in yourself that that will come around and it will you know, you've got a whole career of writing behind you.

你知道你能写，这事儿没错，真的。

So you know you can write and it was yeah.

要是真难起来，是不是特别折磨人？

If it's really hard, isn't it?

对了，我昨天刚做了一个关于倦怠的播客。

Again, society I did a podcast yesterday on burnout.

我们总让这些女人没日没夜地拼、拼、拼、拼。

We told these women's grind and grind and grind and grind.

当然，我们得工作。

And, of course, we have to work.

当然，我们得干活养孩子，诸如此类的事。

And, of course, we have to do what we do to feed our children, etcetera, etcetera.

但如果一件事怎么都搞不顺，那多半是有原因的。

But there is often if something is really, really not coming easy, there's a really good reason for it.

不如松开手，别硬扛，深呼吸，放轻松。

And just taking the taking that grip off it and going, okay, breathe it out.

说不定哪天你再回头写小说，灵感就自然串起来了，一切水到渠成。

And actually, you might come back to those fiction books with the right golden thread through it and it all happened.

但我们有时候就是死磕一件事，对吧？

But we have we just stick at stuff sometimes, don't we?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我们从小就被这么教育的，对吧？

I think we're just taught to, aren't we?

人家总说别放弃，永远都不能认输。

We're taught never to quit and never we were up.

其实ADHD的一个特点就是你更容易辞职。

Actually, another thing about ADHD is that you are more like to quit your job.

我早就干过好多次了。

I've done that so many times.

但我特别幸运，这种说走就走的本事反而帮了我大忙——实在搞不定，我就直接说：我真的搞不下去了。

It and I'm so so lucky that it's like served me well, being able to quit and saying like, I just don't, I just don't, I'm not getting this.

我就是不喜欢了。

I don't like it anymore.

或者干了两年，那事儿还是没搞明白。

Or after two years, I still haven't perfected that thing.

比如我以前在杂志公司上班。

Like, I, you know, I worked in a magazine.

我最早在杂志社干的那份工作，更多是行政类的，不是写东西，是的。

My, one of my first jobs in a magazine was a bit more admin led than writing Mhmm.

刚开始的时候。

At the beginning.

至于写稿，我还挺顺手的，可能比不少人快。

And the writing side was fine and probably quicker than a lot of people.

但行政那块儿，我简直一团糟。

But the admin side, I was a disaster.

干了两年，我一直在想：我不明白啊。

And two years in, I was thinking, but I don't understand.

我明明那么努力了。

I'm trying so hard.

我用了那么多方法。

I've got all these strategies in place.

可还是老犯同样的错，真搞不懂为啥。

And I'm still making the same mistakes and I don't understand why.