阿丽亚娜·马迪克斯：范德普往事（FBF）

看着她跟你说话，而你知道她正在和你的伴侣偷情，这画面令人无比心痛。

And for and watching her speak to you knowing she was fucking your partner is so painful to watch.

但当我看到这一幕时，我真的很为你难过，因为我在想：汤姆没有让你感到自信和快乐吗？

But I when I watched that, I felt so bad for you because I'm like, did Tom not make you feel confident and make you feel good?

感觉他总是抱怨性生活的频率。

It felt like, you know, he would complain about frequency of sex.

而且感觉他其实很想发生关系。

And it felt like he wanted to have sex.

但我一直在想：你真的想和我做爱吗？

But I was like, but do you wanna have sex with me?

这跟我有关吗？

Is it about me?

还是只是单纯地为了做爱这件事？

Or is it just about the act?

那时候我就想，好吧，那问题到底出在哪里？他其实并不擅长用语言表达，比如那些细腻的描述。

And that's where I was like, okay, so but what is it about He wasn't really great with like the words of, you know, like descriptors.

就是说，要具体一点。

Was like, be specific.

比如，你喜欢什么？

Like, what do you like?

你知道的。

You know?

对吧。

Right.

比如，你最喜欢我什么？

Like like, what do you like about me?

是的。

Yeah.

我需要知道这些。

Like, I need to know those.

我想知道这些事情。

Like I wanna know those things.

或者我会说，好吧，你喜欢吗？有人说过他们觉得我的屁股很漂亮。

Or I would be like, okay well, do you like, you know, people have said that they think I have a nice ass.

我不确定我是否同意，但你同意吗？

I don't know if I agree with that, but do you agree with that?

你和他会不会因为我想知道你是否喜欢我身体的这部分，或者你到底喜欢什么而感到反感呢？

Do you and he would like be very turned off by the idea of me like being like can you do you like that part of me or like what are the you know.

对。

Right.

我觉得这并不一定是因为他不喜欢我的身体。

And I think that it wasn't coming necessarily from a place of like he didn't like my body.

我只是觉得他不知道该怎么表达，或者这中间存在某种脱节，是的。

I just don't think he knew how to express or maybe that's just a disconnect there and like Yeah.

爱的语言，或者如何在那种方式上产生共鸣。

Love languages or how to like click in that way

因为我能理解你的意思，但我也想对任何听到这段话的男性说：当你的伴侣明显在说‘我需要一些肯定’的时候。

because I get what you're saying but I also to any fucking guy listening to this, it's like when your partner is so clearly being like, I need some reassurance.

我不记得上一次你夸过我是什么时候了。

I don't know the last time you've given me a compliment.

这简直就像在提醒我：你想要性生活吗？

That's also like a hey wake up like you want sex?

如果我都不记得上一次在你面前觉得自己漂亮是什么时候，我为什么要和你发生关系？

Well why would I have sex with someone that I don't know the last time I felt like pretty in front of me.

你能把我当物体一样欣赏吗？

I'd like can you objectify me

直接说我很性感啊。

Like call me fucking hot.

对。

Right.

或者他会说一些话，比如‘不错嘛，这身衣服’。

Or like he would say things like, oh nice outfit.

当我赤身裸体或换衣服时，他会说‘不错嘛，这身衣服’，我知道这是在开玩笑，但这根本不是

When I was naked or changing he'd be like nice outfit and I'm like I get the joke but like that's not

不是这样的。

It's not.

这说不通，不行。

Connect that's not gonna like No.

真的要理解

Really get

让我特别生气的是，有些男人会用‘我们没性生活’来为自己的出轨找借口。

Something me that really pisses me off is when men try to justify their cheating by being like, but we weren't having sex.

我得去别处找点发泄。

Like I need to get my fix somewhere.

而且，女性经常被当成问题的根源。

And like, it's so often that women are deemed as the problem.

当然，当一个男人出轨时，人们就会说：‘你们没性生活啊。’

And of course, a guy went and cheated like, you weren't having sex.

但问题是：那你们为什么没性生活呢？

But it's like, but why weren't you having sex?

那么，在你不断听到‘我们没有联系’、‘我们没有身体接触’这样的说法时，有没有哪个时刻让你觉得汤姆或者这个情况是你的问题？

And so was there ever a point where Tom or like this situation as you kept hearing it like we weren't connecting, we weren't physical.

有没有哪个时刻你曾怀疑过，这是不是你的错？

Was there ever a point where you were questioning was that your fault?

我的意思是，过去我可能会倾向于这么想。

I mean, I think in the past I would have been inclined to do that.

但因为我那时已经接受了多年心理治疗，所以我很清楚。

But because I was had been in therapy and for years at that point, I knew.

而且我和他一起接受过夫妻治疗，

And couples therapy with him by

那是什么？

the What's that?

夫妻治疗师正对着我们两个人说，这是他的问题，不是你的问题。

And the couples therapist literally sat across from both of us and said this is a him problem, this isn't a you problem.

我知道在关系中有些事情我必须承担责任，但像这种事，根本不是我的问题，这是他在经历和应对的事情，别往自己身上揽，真的别这样。

You know there's certain things I have to take accountability for in the relationship but when it came to stuff like that it's like no this is something that he's going through that he's dealing with and don't take that on yourself like just please don't.

因为我的本能就是觉得自己不够好。

Because it is my inclination to be like I'm not enough you know.

我们每个人都有一个自己深信不疑的谎言，而我的谎言就是‘我不够好’。

We all have that lie that whatever the big lie is that we all tell ourselves, mine is the not enough lie.

治疗师说：请别这样想。

And the therapist was like please don't do that.

对。

Right.

这真的和你一点关系都没有。

This actually has nothing to do with you.

是的。

Yeah.

我知道 hindsight 是二十/二十， hindsight 就是 hindsight，你可以回头去看，试图找线索，但这段关系刚开始的时候，有没有什么你现在回头看觉得是危险信号的迹象？

I know hindsight is obviously twentytwenty and it's like you can look back and try to but like were there any signs of red flags in the beginning of the relationship that you now see?

我觉得刚开始的时候，就是，你知道的，他很喜欢出去玩。

I think in the beginning it was like, you know, he likes to go out a lot.

我以为那只是我们当时所处的人生阶段。

And I thought that that was just like the phase of life that we were in.

我原本以为九年之后我们会进入一个不同的阶段。

And I would have thought that nine years later we would be in a different phase.

我觉得我现在的生命阶段已经不同了。

I think I'm in a different phase in my life.

我仍然喜欢外出玩乐。

I still like to go out and have fun.

我去参加音乐节。

I go to festivals.

我参加派对。

I party.

我玩得很开心。

I have a good time.

但像平时工作日那样，只是为了随便出去一下这种事。

But like as far as like going out during the week just for the hell event.

又不是谁的生日。

It's not anyone's birthday.

也不是那种吃晚饭喝点酒的场合。

Not you know, it's not like a dinner and drinks.

我只是不再像以前那样了。

It's just like a that's just not where I'm at anymore.

我以为我们当时一起处于那个阶段，然后会一起走出来。

And I thought that we were in that phase together and then we would come out of it.

但我觉得他从来都没长大。

But I feel like He never grew up.

他确实没有。

He didn't really.

是的。

Yeah.

当你回望过去，我知道网上有个很大的话题是关于你和汤姆的关系，而它始于他劈腿他的女友克里斯汀。

When you look back, I know a huge conversation on the internet is your relationship with Tom started by him cheating on his girlfriend Kristen.

你们接吻了。

You guys kissed.

他骗你说你已经不再和她在一起了，但后来克里斯汀却说，你们其实一直在一起。

He lied to you and was like, I'm not with her anymore but then it turns out Kristen was like, we were fully together.

所以人们都说，你是怎么得到他的，就怎么失去他。

So and people are like, oh, you lose him how you got him.

他骗了克里斯汀，也骗了你。

Like, he cheated on Kristen, he cheated on you.

回顾你们关系的开始，你觉得人们现在问你，你对此感到惊讶吗？

Like, how do you feel looking back at how your relationship started and how people are now like, are you that surprised?

他既骗了克里斯汀，也骗了你。

Like he did it to Chris and he did it to you.

但我要明确说，不是我失去了他。

Well to be very clear, I didn't lose him.

是他失去了我。

He lost me.

所以事情就发生在那儿。

So that's right there.

抱歉。

Sorry.

但我觉得我当时非常信任他，甚至作为朋友的时候，以及在我们恋爱期间，我都极度信任他的看法，我完全接受了他告诉我的一切，他说什么我就信什么。

But I think that I trusted in him so much even like as a friend back then and I trusted him so much like during our relationship that I trusted his perspective on things and I think that I was caught up in whatever he told me that whatever it was that he was telling me was what I was going with.

这并不是说我很聪明，你知道的，我本可以深入调查的，但我没有。

That's not to say like I'm a smart girl like you know I could have dug deeper but I didn't.

我和克里斯滕关系非常亲密，我非常爱她，而他们的关系——正如她会告诉你的那样——非常有毒，双方都多次出轨。

Kristen and I are very close and I love her so much and their relationship as she will tell you it was very toxic and there was a lot of cheating on both sides there.

无所谓。

Whatever.

我爱她。

I love her.

她太棒了。

She's amazing.

她是一个非常坚强、了不起的女性，现在已经成了一个如此有影响力的人。

She's a very strong incredible woman and she has become like just such a force.

我认为这恰恰说明了他一贯的作风：他会说一些类似‘我试图结束这段关系’、‘我其实已经……’、‘我们分手了’之类的话，不管是什么，我都希望现在发生的事能让他以后再也不会对别人使用这种手段，因为我觉得是时候彻底放弃这种小伎俩了。

I think that it's something that just goes to show that that's kind of maybe just what he does is he says things like I tried to end it or I'm in you know things like that or oh we're broken up or things like whatever it is I would like to think that maybe this thing that's happening right now will prevent him from ever doing that again with any other person just because I think it's time to put that little tactic to bed.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

但确实如此。

But yeah.

当你回望过去，我只是在想，你觉得他是个病态的说谎者吗？

When you look back I'm just thinking like do you think he's a pathological liar?

我的意思是，这很难说，但显然在过去七个月里，他确实是个病态的说谎者。

I mean, it's hard to I mean, clearly in the last seven months he was a pathological Yeah.

现在要我回头审视这九年，如果我告诉自己他是个病态的说谎者，那意味着我过去九年的生命可能都是谎言，但他在 finale 集中对希娜说过一些话，比如‘我们并不幸福’，‘买房子只是为了敷衍’，那我倒想问问，我这个‘敷衍’是给谁看的？

It's now hard for me to look back at nine years and if I tell myself he's a pathological liar then I mean that the last nine years of my life were potentially a lie but he did say stuff on that finale episode to Sheena like we weren't happy and we bought the house as a band aid and I'm like a band aid to who?

因为那根本不是我当时的状态。

Cause that wasn't where I was at at all.

或者从他的角度来看，那集里说了许多事情，其他地方也提到过，就像哦，好吧，也许你是这么想的，但那和我的想法完全不一样。

Or things like there were a lot of things from his perspective that were have been said in that episode and otherwise that it's like oh okay, well that's maybe how you were thinking but that's nowhere near where I was.

没错，而且我们是在一段关系中，你应该跟我分享这些，因为我真的很想了解，如果早知道你只是把买房当作权宜之计，我可能根本不会跟你一起买房。

Right and also we're in a relationship so you should have shared that to me because I would have loved to known that because I probably wouldn't have bought a house with you if you were like, just to be clear babe, this is a band date.

你当时难道就只想说‘你疯了吗？’？

You'd been like the fuck?

等一下，也许我们现在就该修复我们的关系，就这样做吧。

Wait a minute, like okay well maybe we should fix our relationship then now and do that Right.

而不是继续这样下去。

And not do yeah.

去接受伴侣咨询。

Couples therapy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你和汤姆去年开始了伴侣咨询，而且是在他开始外遇之后。

You and Tom got into couples therapy this past year and After he started the affair.

到那时已经完全爆发了。

After It was full blown at that point.

我不知道，但是

I didn't know that but

所以你们去接受婚姻咨询时，你根本不知道他有外遇。

So when you got into couples therapy, you had no idea about the affair.

你们进去后，他说是他主动提议的。

You go in and he claims he initiated it.

这是真的吗？

Is that true?

主动提议婚姻咨询？

Initiated couples therapy?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

但这件事已经被我们其中一人或双方提过几次了，好吧。

But it had been brought up by one or both of us Okay.

在我们在一起的这些年里。

For years of being together.

是的。

Yep.

后来才揭晓，他让你俩去接受婚姻咨询，其实是他最终打算结束这段关系的一部分计划。

And it's since been revealed that he got you both into couples therapy as part of his eventual plan to end the relationship.

他对你解释过，为什么他那么积极、突然愿意去接受婚姻咨询吗？

What explanation did he give you as to like why he was so gung ho ready finally for couples therapy?

我的意思是，有一天我们吵了一架。

I mean he was just we got into an argument one day.

你看过节目了，我们曾在沙发上有过一次对话，就是那次对话，还有另外一次，我们谈到我觉得我们应该去接受婚姻咨询，我当时说：当然好啊，太好了，我们应该去。

Well you saw on the show we had that conversation on the couch and it was that conversation and like one other one that we had where it was like I think we should go to couples therapy and I was like absolutely I would love that, we should do that.

但正是这些谈话和交流让我们最终走向了婚姻咨询，是的。

But it was those things in those conversations that led us to that Yep.

去进行。

To going.

我记得有一次治疗，因为我们既有联合治疗，也有单独治疗。

And I remember specifically one session because we would do joint and we would do separate.

在我的单独治疗中，我在做内在小孩的疗愈，我和治疗师一起哭泣，我的进步真的很快，他甚至说：‘我们去做了伴侣治疗，我们的关系变得好多了。’

And in my separate sessions I was doing inner child work, I was sobbing with her, I was I mean I felt like I was making leaps and bounds and he even said oh we went to couples therapy and our relationship got so much better.

对。

Right.

但这就像是显而易见的事。

But like it's like well duh.

对。

Right.

这简直有点反直觉，如果他真的打算和你分手，那他干嘛还要去参加伴侣治疗？

Right like it's almost like a little counterintuitive that if he actually had the intention of ending it with you why the fuck are you going to couples therapy?

我记得有一次治疗后，我说过：‘有次治疗特别激烈。’

I remember even saying after one of them I was like okay so there was a session where it was it got really intense.

感觉我们可能要分手了，结束时她问我：‘所以，这是你们要分手了吗？’

It felt like maybe we were ending and at the end of the session she was like okay so is this you know a breakup?

你们俩，他却说：‘不是。’

Are you guys and he was like, no.

所以那时候我就想，难道你不觉得……

So that's where it's like I don't Can don't you

你介意分享一下吗？当你们吵架的时候，你们到底在吵什么？显然你们吵的不是出轨这件事。

Do you mind sharing like when when you guys are fighting like because obviously you're not fighting about the affair.

你们关系中的问题是什么？

What were your issues in the relationship?

我的问题是，我觉得他没有在我和那些随意的外出夜生活之间选择我，他根本不想回家，就只想待在施瓦茨那里，毫无理由。

My issues is that I felt like he was not choosing me over like random nights out or that he just wasn't coming home like he would wanna just be at Schwartz's for no reason.

现在你可算明白了。

Well now you fucking know.

就是喝点啤酒啊什么的，或者回家后，你知道的，我醒来就会想‘你去哪儿了？’然后我下去找，发现他就坐在楼下，像……

Just you know having beers and whatever or coming home and then you know I'd wake up and I'd be like where are you and I would like go down he's just downstairs like

戴着面膜。

Having facemasked.

抽香烟，大概吧。

Smoking cigarettes and probably.

但你是懂我的意思吧？

But like you know what I mean?

他就像个缺席的男友，总说工作需要加班，什么都要优先于我，优先于我们的关系。我需要那种连接和关怀，而这些正是我维持亲密关系所必需的。我知道他一直在说他缺乏身体上的亲密，可我也不知道该怎么满足他的需求，因为我自己的需求根本没被满足。

Was just like the absentee boyfriend without and the I have to do this for work after you know it was just everything was coming before me and before the relationship and I felt like and I needed that connection and that stuff that all that stuff in order to be physically intimate and I knew that physical intimacy was something that he was saying he was lacking so I'm like, I don't know how I can meet you where you need to be when I'm not being met where I need

那我们该怎么解决这个问题呢？

to be like, how do we figure this out?

对。

Right.

你们俩简直就像陷入了一个死循环。

It's almost like you both couldn't it it was a circle.

但你就是早点回家不行吗？

It's like no but come home earlier.

他说不行，但我觉得很痛苦，因为我们没有性生活，而你却说我们需要先相处才能有性生活，这简直太难了。

He's like no but like I'm miserable because we don't have sex and you're like but we need to hang out in order to have sex and it just like it

就像我在节目里说的，我没法从酒吧把你的阴茎瞬移到我的阴道里，因为如果你在酒吧，我在家，我就在这里，你知道，也许我准备好了，但你根本不在那儿。

Like what I said on the show I was like I can't teleport your dick into my vagina from the bar because if you're at the bar and I'm at home, like I'm here, know, maybe I'm ready and you're just not there.

那我们该怎么办呢？

So how do we do this?

对。

Right.

如果你们根本不可能在一起，我们根本无法真正实现这一点。

Like we can't actually physically do this if you're never possible.

没错，就是这样。

Well, like, exactly.

就是这样。

Exactly.

所以是的。

So yeah.

所以汤姆在那个霍威·曼德尔的播客里提到，事情确实发生了变化。

So Tom did mention on that Howie Mandel podcast like things did shift.

你开始努力了。

You started to make an effort.

在你看来，你所谓的努力在他眼里是什么样子的？

Like what did you making an effort in his mind do you think look like?

我觉得我只是尽力保持专注，多和他出去走走，试着当个更有趣、更有派对气氛的女生。

I think I just was doing my best to be present and going out with him more and trying to be more fun party time gal.

你知道的，我只是想变得有趣又性感。

You know, I was just trying to be, I don't know, like fun and hot.

我不确定。

I don't know.

对。

Right.

天啊，当你这么做的时候，你感觉怎么样？

Dude, and like how the fuck did you feel when you were doing that?

我的意思是，有一部分的

I mean, part of

我会觉得这样也没问题，因为那段时间我一直都在做内在疗愈的功课，我觉得那个过程真的帮到了我，让我学会爱自己，那段经历彻底改变了我对

me was just like, I mean this is fine because again I was still doing like that inner child work and it was you know, I felt like that was really helping me just be like I love myself and I'm you know doing I mean that like really changed the game for

自己的看法。

me.

对。

Yeah.

你提到做内在小孩的疗愈工作，当然你只需要分享你愿意说的内容，但有没有某件事是你当时真正深陷其中、明显已经影响到你们的感情，于是你下定决心一定要搞定这个烂摊子，因为你想做个完整的人、和自己好好相处？

When you say doing inner child work like obviously share what you're comfortable with but like what was something that you were like really struggling with that was clearly like you felt bleeding into your relationship that you were like I'm gonna work on this shit because like I wanna be whole and good with myself.

我觉得是那种完美主义的心态。我爱我爸爸，但他那时候下班之后总不回家，还有类似的情况。

I think like this sense of perfectionism because I mean I love my dad but my dad also like didn't come home after work and stuff.

而我那时候一直是全优生，是个十足的优等生。

And I was always like straight a student, super overachiever.

现在回头看，我当时做那些事很多时候都是有原因的。

And I think like going back and looking at it, a lot of times I did those things.

我的意思是，也许是因为我希望别人觉得，我会在那里。

I mean, maybe because I wanted people to be like, I'll be there.

所以我以为，如果我能成为完美的女友、完美的女孩，他们就会回家。

So I thought like if I could be the perfect girlfriend or the perfect girl that they'll come home.

他们会想和我在一起，而我会足够好。

They'll wanna be around me and I'll be enough.

我不必去跳顶楼舞蹈、吃迷幻药或滑翔伞。

I won't have to be me top dancing, doing shrooms and hang gliding.

我只需要做我自己，这就足够了。

I can just be me and that will be enough.

当你开始接受治疗时，这难道不是特别荒谬吗？

It's isn't it so fucked when you get into therapy also?

你会想，天啊，这难道这么明显吗？我是在和我父亲的某种版本约会，还是说，这到底是怎么发生的？

You're like, oh my god, like is it this obvious of like, I I'm dating a version of my dad or like I'm dating a you're like, how did this happen?

是的。

Like Yeah.

我爸爸从不回家。

My dad didn't come home.

汤姆从来就不在家。

Tom's never fucking home.

就像我的，是的。

Like my yeah.

我的意思是，我不愿意说人坏话。

I mean, I hate to speak ill.

我爱我的爸爸。

I love my dad.

他在很多方面都是个很棒的人。

He's a great person in so many ways.

但他有时候就会说，好吧，街角有个随机的小酒吧。

But he would, you know, sometimes just be like, okay, well there's a random dive bar down the street.

我宁愿去那里，也不愿回家帮孩子做作业。

I'd go do that instead of coming home and helping with homework.

但这也很合理，阿丽安娜，因为奇怪的是，我们会被那些熟悉的事物吸引。

But it also makes sense, Ariana, because weirdly we are attracted to things that are familiar to us.

所以如果你从小就是这样的环境，你就会觉得，哦，我和汤姆之间我懂这套。

So it's like if that is what you were growing up with weirdly, you're like oh I fucking got this with Tom.

我知道该怎么应对这种状况。

Like I know how to deal with this.

我知道。

I know

我可以以正确的方式去做，哦，这次我可以做对了。

how I can do it the the right way like oh I can do it right this time.

我可以重新再来一遍。

I can kind of do it all over again.

然后变得

And be

更好。

better.

而且变得更好。

And be better.

实际上他会回家，然后看所有那些东西，接着你就会意识到，你值得更好的。

And actually he'll come home watch like all the and then it's like actually you deserve so much better.

那其实不怪我。

That's actually not on me.

是他们的问题。

It's on them.

不。

No.

不。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

你需要的是一个真心想回家的人，而不是得你求着他才肯出现、愿意陪伴你。

You want someone that actually wants to come home and you don't have to beg them to be like come on like show up be there.

对。

Right.

你说过，在这一切发生之前，你从未考虑过结束这段关系。

You said that you hadn't considered ending the relationship before all of this came out.

你在这段关系中真的快乐吗？

Were you truly happy in this relationship?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得我当时的快乐是一种我以为是我想要的快乐，但其实我不确定那是什么。

I think I was a version of happy that I thought was I don't know what I wanted.

而且我也觉得这段关系的基础是好的，我觉得这段关系有潜力变得极其美好，我认为正是这种潜力，以及‘如果我们能度过这段时期就好了’的念头。

And I also felt like the bones of the relationship were good and I felt as though the potential for the relationship to be just incredible was there and I think it was the potential and the okay if we can make it through this time.

Fred Again的歌《We Lost Dancing》，就在Tom、Schwartz和Sandy举办他们最后一次开业活动的那天晚上。

The Fred Again song We Lost Dancing I literally the night that Tom or that Schwartz and Sandy's had the like their last like opening thing.

我开车送Tom回家时，让他听这首歌的歌词。

I was driving Tom home and I was like just listen to the words of this song.

在这首歌里，我认为Blessed Madonna唱道：如果我能挺过接下来的六个月，接下来的一切都会变得美妙。

And in the song when I think it's a Blessed Madonna says if I can make it through this next six months what comes next will be marvelous.

我当时真的在想，如果你能挺过这个酒吧开业的阶段，不管之后发生什么，我们未来的一切都会变得美妙。

And I literally was like if you can get through this if we can get through this opening of this bar and whatever what comes next for us will be marvelous.

我真的无法相信，那时他已经……他那时就已经……我不知道，但……

And I I just cannot believe that he'd already been having at that point he was already I don't know but

这肯定是一种精神上的折磨，我也明白，因为我知道我自己也做过这样的事。

It's it's must be such a mind fuck where you're like, which I also want because I know I've done it too.

我记得当我被背叛的时候，我那时根本不知道，却还在拼命努力。

Where like I remember when I was getting cheated on and I didn't know it at the time and you're making such an effort.

然后你就会想，我真是蠢得要命。

And you're like, I feel so fucking stupid.

简直不敢相信，怎么会这样，不，不，不。

Like how dare and it's like, no no no.

你并不愚蠢。

You're not stupid.

你信任了那个你深爱的人，是的。

You were trusting the person you were in love Yes.

。

With.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你得试着理解，这并不是你的错，但当你回想起自己曾付出那么多努力，说‘我们会挺过去的，汤姆’时，又觉得这一切太疯狂了。

And so it's like you also have to wrap your head around like this wasn't your fault but it's like also crazy now that you remember these details of you putting in so much fucking work and be like we got this, Tom.

我的，是的。

My Yeah.

不过唯一的问题是，九年了。

Only question though is like nine years.

现在你回过头来看，因为你会想，天啊。

Now when you look back because you're like, oh my gosh.

我当时就像，你知道的，我痴迷于那种可能性。

Like I was like, you know, I was obsessed with like the potential.

我是说，九年过去了，如果你还在幻想这段关系可能变成什么样，你现在还能不能客观地看看，如果我没有……

Like I really wanted the Nine years in, if you're still fantasizing about the potential of what a relationship could be, do you now have any ability to look and be like, if I didn't Mhmm.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

你是说在头几年就有这种感觉，然后就消失了？

Like or did you feel it in the first couple years and then it dropped off?

一直都是这样吗？

Like was it always like this?

我觉得事情总是起起落落的。

I feel like things would kind of they would they would wax and wane.

有高潮也有低谷。

They would be ups and ebbs and flows.

是的。

Mhmm.

我觉得我们有过很多美好的时光，所以即使有几周不太顺利，或者我对某些事感到犹豫，但之前那么多美好的回忆依然在。

And I feel like we would have so many amazing times so then if there was like a couple weeks that were like not great or if I was like unsure about something, there was so much other stuff that was great.

或者我们会突然大笑起来，笑得前仰后合，以至于我很难说‘这个人不适合我’，因为在此之前我从未经历过这么长时间的关系。

Or I would be like laugh we would be laughing hysterically about something or that it was almost like I think hard to say oh this person's not right for me because I also had never been in a relationship that long before.

所以很难知道一段关系本该是什么样子，毕竟我之前最长的成年恋情也就三年左右。

So it's hard to know like what is it supposed to be like, you know, because past I think my my longest adult relationship previous to that was I think like three years or so.

所以过了那个阶段，这就完全是未知领域了。

So it's like past that point, this is uncharted territory.

明白了。

Got it.

我觉得这就是现实，当你和一个人在一起九年，甚至可能十年、二十年的时候。

And I'm thinking this is what it is, you know, when you're with someone for nine years, when you're someone for maybe potentially ten, twenty

是啊。

Right.

整整十年啊。

Like a fucking decade.

十年。

Decade.

你知道，有时候事情会很难。

Know, things are gonna be hard sometimes.

我明白。

I get that.

我其实觉得这非常有共鸣，你努力去看到好的一面，因为确实有好的地方。

I actually think that's like really relatable of like you try to see the good because there is good.

是的。

Yeah.

但当关系起起落落时，你必须坚持，要挺过艰难时期，我们只能这样。

But when it's ebbing and flowing you have to be like we just have to stay strong through the hard times like we just have to make

因为那些在一起五十年、从未出轨的人，人们都说他们是史上最伟大的爱情故事。

it Well because through people say that who have been together for fifty years who have never cheated and who have like, they're like the greatest love story of all time.

你会想，好吧，他们也说过，他们经历过一些艰难时期。

You think like, okay yeah they said that we had some hard times.

有时候，你会有一段艰难的年份。

Like sometimes you have a year that's hard.

对。

Right.

而且我知道，尤其是过去这一年，我经历了很多，我觉得 okay，他也一样，我觉得我们各自都在经历这些事。

And I you know especially this past year I went through a lot and I felt like okay and he was going I felt like we were both on our own going through these things.

所以我心想，我们会一起挺过去的，因为我是真心承诺要和这个男人走下去的，但你知道，他却

And so I thought like we'll get through this together because I mean I'm committed to this man and but you know he had

在进行另一段完整的关系。

a full other relationship going on.

对。

Right.

这一季，我们发现了你们关系中的很多事。

This season, we found out a lot about your relationship.

你之前提到过，有时候你会翻看他的手机，而他对你很坦诚，会主动把手机递给你；但后来在《Watch What Happens Live》上，你说过：‘我有iPad密码，你这个笨蛋’，他们总是这么蠢。

There you had talked about like how at times you would go through his phone and he was open with you and he would hand it to you or then we found out on Watch What Happens Live, you were like, I had the iPad password you fucking idiot like they're always so stupid.

汤姆提到你们一年只做爱四次，而且过着相当分离的生活。

And Tom mentioned you guys were only having sex four times a year and you were living pretty separate lives.

你感到孤单吗？

Were you lonely?

是的。

Yeah.

但也没有，因为我有我最好的朋友。

But no because I had my best friend.

所以他总是对我和我最好的朋友洛根出去玩感到嫉妒。

So he would be so jealous of me hanging out with my best friend Logan.

对。

Right.

他会说，我和你们俩出去的时候感觉自己像个电灯泡。

And he would be like I feel like a third wheel when I go out with you guys.

我就说，那是因为你一出去就玩手机，或者你知道的，你总是这样。

And I'm like well because you you go outside and you are on the phone or you're do you know you Yeah.

所以我不想让你也这样，于是我填补了他不回家、不愿和我做同样事情所带来的空缺。

And so it's like I don't want that for you but so I filled that I filled that absence of him not coming home and not wanting to do the same things that we wanted to do.

我用我认识的最棒的人——我的朋友们——填补了这份缺失。

I filled that absence with the most incredible people I know which are my friends.

这其实是一件很美好的事，你有这么好的朋友，但同时也明显是在回避一个问题：为什么我们从不一起出去？

Which is like such like also a beautiful thing that you had great friends but also kind of like clearly a deflector of like instead of being like wait why are we never hanging out?

我只是去和我的朋友一起玩，这很好。

I'm just gonna hang out with my friends which is great.

我们很喜欢你的朋友们。

We love your friends.

对。

Right.

因为他当时就在做那些事，你知道的？

Because he was going and doing that, you know?

对。

Right.

而且说实话，关于各自过各自的生活这个说法，是的。

And it was just like or but honestly though the separate lives comment Yeah.

对我来说，这完全不对。

To me is so not true.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的意思是，某种程度上也许吧，但当你说到‘我得工作’，我正想开一家酒吧，哦，我得去和施瓦茨和布雷特吃晚饭，因为我们得谈酒吧的事，然后哦，我以为你吃完晚饭就回家了，都十二点了，你到底在干嘛？哦，我们只是去隔壁的Birds喝点酒，你知道的，诸如此类的事情。所以，如果我再看看我的相机相册和他的相机相册，因为我有他的。

I mean to some degree maybe yeah but when you're saying like I have to work I'm trying to open this bar and oh I have to go to dinner with Schwartz and Bret because we have to talk about the bar and then oh I thought you were gonna be home right after dinner it's twelve like what are you doing oh we just went to get drinks next door at Birds you know like things like that and it's like okay well but then if I again my camera roll and his camera roll because I have it.

对。

Right.

如果你仔细看，我们仍然一起去音乐会，去约会吃饭，至少在某些地方还是有努力的，你知道的。

If you look at it it's we're still we're going to concerts we're going on dinner dates where we are there is some there is effort being made somewhere of like, you know.

对。

Right.

但就是感觉不够。

It just felt like it just wasn't enough.

是的。

Yeah.

不，我明白。

No, I get it.

你显然提到你经历了一段艰难的岁月。

You obviously mentioned you went through a rough year.

你失去了祖母。

You lost your grandmother.

你失去了你的狗。

You lost your dog.

我很难过。

I'm so sorry.

在那段时间里，你是如何从心理上哀悼的？你和汤姆的关系是怎样的？

How were you mentally grieving during that time and like what was your relationship with Tom when you were grieving?

因为我知道，当你失去父亲时，汤姆一直在你身边。

Because I know you've been open about like when you lost your dad, Tom was there.

他是你的支柱。

He was like your rock.

他一直陪在你身边。

He was in it with you.

他是你当时依靠的人，但这次情况完全不同。

He was like the person for you and this time around was very different.

你当时有担心过吗？还是只是完全沉浸在悲痛中？

Were you concerned at all or were you just like full grieving?

你甚至根本没在意。

You didn't even like give a fucking pay attention.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时完全沉浸在悲痛中，因为我的担忧——关于夏洛特，我的狗，他一直陪在我身边。

I was full grieving because my concern, well with Charlotte, my dog, he was there with me.

我们在告别时，他抱着她。

He held her as we said goodbye.

我们真正一起向她告别，然后回家，我放了我最爱的安慰电影《真爱至上》，我们一起喝着葡萄酒，躺在沙发上，共同哀悼。所以我以为我们在这事上完全是一致的。

We literally said goodbye to her together and then we went home and I put on my comfort movie which is Love Actually and we drank wine and we laid on the couch together and just like mourned together and so I thought we were like fully on the same page there.

我也知道，到了夏天，我们不得不去拍摄，得出去做事，不可能永远待在家里，所以很多时候我会想，好吧，我得去拍戏了，要和兄弟们出去聚一聚，或者做别的事，我就说，你去吧，因为这就是我们的生活。

I also know that like when it comes to it was the summer we do have to you know, we have to film, we have to go do stuff, we can't just we can't stay at home forever and so a lot of times it would be like, okay, I have to, I'm gonna go film this, have boys night or this or that and I was like, go do it because this is what we do.

是的，这是一份不错的职业。

Yeah, it's a good career.

也许我还没准备好接受这些，但你尽管去吧，没错。

Maybe I'm not ready for that yet but you go do it, exactly.

所以我完全没想到，那段时期他会背叛我，因为我以为他也在哀悼。

And so I definitely had no idea that you know, he would betray me during that time because I thought he was also grieving.

当我奶奶去世时，我非常担心我妈妈，所以我飞回家陪妈妈，然后又飞回来，拍完了剩下的一周剧集。

When it came to my grandma, I was so concerned with my mom so I flew home to my mom and then I flew back filmed the rest of the season which was like one week left.

之后我又飞回佛罗里达，在那里待了大约两周。

And then I flew back again to Florida and was there for like two weeks.

那正是艾恩飓风来袭的时候，我干脆延长了停留时间，超出了原定的服务期。

It was during the hurricane Ian and everything and I just I just extended my stay beyond the service and everything.

我当时唯一关心的，就是我的家人。

And I just my concern was really just my family.

当你为祖母哀悼时，是不是就是汤姆和拉奎尔 supposedly 在你家，甚至可能发生关系的时候？

When you were grieving your grandmother, isn't that when Tom and Raquel apparently were like at your house or something having sex potentially.

有可能。

Potentially.

我的意思是，他一直坚称那不是真的，但我并不相信他的话。

I mean he has maintained that that's not the case but I don't trust what he says.

当然。

Of course.

他们三人给我打了FaceTime电话，就在第二天早上，拍摄之前。

They FaceTimed me, the three of them, they FaceTimed me that next morning like before any filming or whatever.

所以我早就知道她昨晚留宿了，因为她说‘早上好，伙计们，昨晚住下了’，语气轻松得好像根本没什么大不了的。

So I was already aware that she had stayed the night because she it was like hey good morning guys stay the night like it like it was just no big deal.

除了他们真的在偷情这个事实之外，最让你痛苦的，是不是就是这种随意的态度——嘿，女孩，我们要一起给你打FaceTime，而他们还是你最好的朋友？

Is that one of the most painful things for you aside from the actual fact that they were having an affair like the casualness of just like, hey girl, we're gonna FaceTime you together and they're your best friends.

所以你就说，嘿，伙计们。

So you're like, hey guys.

他们真的就直接发生了关系。

And they like literally just fucked.

是的。

Mhmm.

这是虚伪的表现。

It's the duplicitousness.

这就是背后捅刀子。

It's like the it's the back stabbiness.

这与其说是出轨，不如说是别的东西。

It's like less about like an affair.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I'm saying?

对。

Right.

这太复杂了。

It's so layered.

这也很奇怪。

It's just really bizarre as well.

就像我完全无法理解。

Like it's just like I can't wrap my head around

嗯。

Mhmm.

做那种事。

Doing that.

这真的很扭曲。

It's really twisted

而且很病态。

and sick.

确实如此。

It is actually.

汤姆声称他多次试图和你分手，而你的回应总是：我不会让你走。

Tom claimed he tried to break up with you multiple times and your response would be, I'm not gonna let you leave.

你得强迫我。

You're gonna have to force me.

那只发生过一次。

That There was only one.

好的。

Okay.

所以关于尝试

So with Tried

好的。

Okay.

他指的是我们拍摄的那些对话。

He's talking about those conversations that we filmed.

就是那个穿棕色和白色衣服的，还有我不确定你是否觉得那像是在试图分手。

So the one on the in the brown and white and then the I don't know if that looked like an attempt to break up to you.

没有。

That no.

在我看来，那并不像。

It didn't look like it to me.

还有另一个场景没能在节目中播出，内容也差不多，就是我们决定真的要去接受夫妻咨询之类的。

And then there was another scene that didn't make it to air that was pretty much along the same lines and that was where we like decided we were actually gonna go to couples therapy or whatever.

那不是一种尝试。

That doesn't that's not an attempt.

那是在九月。

And then that was in September.

所以我们从那时一直持续到情人节。

So then we had literally all the way up until Valentine's Day.

我说的是一月。

I'm like January.

不是。

No.

情人节在二月。

Valentine's Day is in February.

对。

Right.

所以我就在想，情人节是几号？

So I'm like what day is Valentine's Day?

我们现在在哪？

Where are we?

发生什么事了？

What's happening?

情人节那天，他给我买了花。

Valentine's Day, he got me flowers.

我们去了施瓦茨和桑迪家。

We went to Schwartz and Sandy's.

他拿出了我们第一次一起旅行时带的那瓶酒。

He pulled out a bottle of wine from our first trip we ever took together.

所以显然，在1月1日我们刚在穆索和弗兰克家庆祝完九周年纪念日之后。

So obviously also after we had celebrated our nine year anniversary at Mousseau and Frank's on January 1.

就是那种，你知道的，我们出去了。

Like full, you know, like we we went out.

我们吃了周年纪念晚餐。

We had our anniversary dinner.

周年快乐。

Happy anniversary.

真是美好的一夜。

Like great night.

对。

Right.

比如一月份的时候，我们好几次都在做爱。

Like Like we've we were having sex in January like multiple times.

所以我也想向所有没跟上这段剧情的人确认一下，这事儿是这样的。

So like so to also to confirm to everyone that's not following all this drama, it's

就像汤姆真的特别认真地在说，我当时真的想和她分手，我是想，但你却

like Tom really honed in being like I was really trying to break up with her like I was But you're

睡在我的床上，给我买花，还一起去吃周年纪念晚餐，是的。

like sleeping in my bed and buying me flowers and we're going on an anniversary dinner and like Yeah.

去夫妻咨询，所有这些。

Going to couples therapy and all of that.

所以他提到的情人节那件事。

So the the Valentine's Day thing that he has referenced.

对。

Yeah.

他又给我买了花。

Again, got me flowers.

我们去施瓦茨和桑迪家吃晚饭。

We went to Schwartz and Sandy's for dinner.

带了一瓶对我们来说特别的葡萄酒。

Brought a super special bottle of wine that was special to us.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我打扮得很正式。

I got dressed up.

我在脸上贴了一些小爱心。

I put like little hearts on my face.

他跟我说：‘你看起来好可爱。’

He was like, you look so cute.

后来我们出去喝了点东西。

We went out for drinks later.

Rachel出现了，还有我们其他几位朋友也来了。

Rachel showed up as did a few of our other friends.

然后我们回家，开始接吻，他说：‘我得停下来了。’

And then we went home and we were started kissing and he was like, I have to stop you.

就在那时，我们进行了这场分手对话。

And then that's when he we had this breakup conversation.

这场对话持续了好几个小时，最后结束了。

Then at the end of that conversation that was hours long.

那场对话结束时，他说：好吧，我们继续谈下去吧。

And the end of that conversation was alright well let's continue this conversation.

你知道吗，他在那场对话中说，我觉得我可能正在经历中年危机，而我则完全同意，我说如果我们分手，我可能会退出这个节目。

You know and he was saying things in that conversation like I think I I'm having a midlife crisis like and I'm like absolutely and I said if we break up, I'm probably going to quit the show.

我可能会离开洛杉矶。

I will probably leave Los Angeles.

我可能会注销我的Instagram账号。

I will probably deactivate my Instagram.

他认为这非常冒犯。

And he found that to be like very offensive.

他说：我不知道。

He was saying like, I don't know.

我从来没有说过我要自杀。

Like I am was never saying that I was going to kill myself.

我说的是，对我来说，现在的生活将会结束，因为我将去做别的事情。

I was saying that my life this life will be over for me because I will go do something else.

从我还是个孩子的时候，我就一直幻想搬去法国的乡村。

I've been fantasizing about moving to like the French countryside since I was a fucking child.

而且说实话，公平地说，那场对话非常伤感，绝对不是一场积极的对话。

And like honestly to be fair like in the conversation it was quite tearful it was definitely not like a positive conversation.

没错。

Right.

但我并不是在说要伤害自己。

But I'm not talking about physically harming myself.

考虑到我们进行了长达数小时的对话，他很清楚那不是我的意思。

And given the fact that we had that conversation over many many many hours he knows that that's not what I was saying.

这并不是只说了一句话就结束了。

It's not just like one comment and then we stop talking.

所以我觉得，我所说的许多事情，不只是在私下里说的，而是我和他之间的对话，我们可以一直争论下去，但终究是我的话对他的说法，对吧？

So the fact that I feel like so many things that I've said not just in confidence it's just me and him like we could sit here and war of words all we want it's my word against his word, right?

没错。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

这公平。

That's fair.

但与此同时，了解我、了解我们的对话，以及了解那之后几天我们依然睡在同一张床上、一起去参加音乐会——2月19日我们还去看了演出，他手里还有我坐在客厅跳舞的视频，所以你想想，既然这样，那你为什么还睡在我的床上？

But at the same time it's like knowing me and knowing the conversation and knowing the conversations we had in the days after that where you were still sleeping in my bed and we were still going to con we went to a concert on February 19 and there's videos that he has of me like dancing in the living room and you know so it's like okay so why are you sleeping in the bed?

我们为什么还要继续相处？

Why are we continuing to hang out?

如果我们现在真的已经分手了，那你为什么还要上播客说阿丽安娜知道我们已经分了？

Why do we have any sort of relationship if to you now you're gonna go on a podcast and say Ariana knew we were broken up?

在我看来，我觉得我们能这样坦诚相待，我其实挺欣慰的。

It's just like in my opinion I was like you know what I feel great about us having this open.

那真是一次非常艰难的对话。

It was really a rough conversation.

最后我们决定继续聊聊这件事。

It ended with let's keep talking about this.

接下来的几天，我们又进行了更多对话。

The next couple of days we had more conversations.

我说，如果你觉得这段关系结束了，那必须由你来提出分手，因为我已经下定决心了。

I said you are going to have to if you think this is over you will have to be the one to end it because I'm committed.

我其实觉得，我们有可能变得更好，因为我们现在在谈论一些以前从未涉及过的话题。

I'm actually thinking that this is like the potential for us to like be even to be great because we're talking about stuff now that we haven't talked about yet.

我们以前从未真正走到这一步。

Like we've never really gotten this this far down this road before.

所以，是的，如果你觉得这段关系结束了，那你必须主动离开，你不必非得这么做，但你得走。

So yes if you want it to be if this is over to you like you are gonna have to like you don't have to do this, you're gonna have to leave.

这并不疯狂。

Like that's not crazy.

并不是所有事情都需要双方共同同意才能分手。

It's like not all, we don't have to mutually agree upon the breakup.

你知道吗

You know what

我是说。

I'm saying like.

不仅这不疯狂，阿里安娜，这本来就是我接下来要问的：我觉得当全世界都看着的时候，汤姆看着希娜，心想：我不能和她分手，因为她威胁要自杀。

Not only is it not crazy Ariana, that was gonna be my next question of like, I think the whole world watching it when Tom looked at Sheena and was like, I can't break up with her because she's threatened to kill herself.

首先，我对这一点有意见，即使你确实说过——我很感谢你澄清，但你其实没必要说，因为第一，对一个人的心理健康做出这么严重的指控，还轻率地在节目中说出来，这太过了，无论这是否属实，都该闭嘴。

First of all, my problem with that even if you had said that which I appreciate clarifying but again, you didn't need to because it's like number one, that's a huge fucking allegation to make about someone's mental health and to just casually say on a show when that's not the truth or it was the truth, shut the

我以前确实经历过自杀念头，也曾经陷入过非常非常黑暗的境地。

I fuck have dealt with suicidal ideation before and I have been in very very deep dark places before.

所以，如果轻率地对待这件事，仿佛这也能成为我活该被这样对待的理由，

So to then be flippant about it as if that's also something about me that makes me like deserve to

这简直太糟糕了，我认为。

be treated poorly is is pretty awful I think.

我完全同意。

I couldn't agree more.

另外，当你看到那个片段时，你感觉如何？

I also am like when you saw that clip, how how did you feel?

我的意思是，这让我很生气，这很明显。

I mean, it made me angry, obviously.

然后谢娜说的话简直太棒了，即使那真的是我原话的逐字复述——但其实根本不是。

And then what Sheena said was like such a great thing like even if that was exactly word for word what I had said which no.

但就算真是，你为什么完全不采取任何行动去帮助我？

But if it was, why did you do absolutely nothing to help at at all?

你为什么不去找我妈妈、我哥哥或者我的朋友们？

Like why didn't you call my mom, my brother, my friends?

对啊。

Right.

你反而去睡了我的最好的朋友。

Instead you fucked my best friend.

没错。

Right.

汤姆知道你曾经分享过你与心理健康问题作斗争的经历。

Tom knows you have shared that you have struggled with your mental health.

我有。

I have.

是的。

Yes.

你经历这些的时候，他显然一直陪在你身边。

You have he has clearly been next to you while you're going through things.

还自称是我的支持者，

And purported to be my supporter and

并且是我的伴侣。

my partner in that.

如果你打算分手，为什么你觉得你会放下一切搬走？

Why if you were gonna break up, why do you think you would leave everything and move?

就像，你们现在已经分手了，对吧？

Like do you still well now you did break up.

你不会这么做的。

You're not gonna do that.

对吧？

Right?

我们要去法国乡村吗？

Are we going to the French countryside?

我们要去哪儿？

Like where are we going?

我们去

Where we

我们要去哪儿？

are we going?

我同意。

I'm down.

但当你对他那样说的时候，你真的就是觉得我彻底结束了。

But like when you said that to him, you really were like I'm out.

因为我不想独自完成这一切，也不想没有他，我也不想只是随便找个地方，比如搬进Studio City的一间公寓，你知道的，我只是觉得那不是我想要的生活。如果这段关系的结束会彻底改变我的人生，那我就想彻底地改变它。

Because I didn't wanna do I didn't wanna do all of this on my own or without him and I didn't wanna like just kind of like be like alright I guess I'll move into an apartment in Studio City and you know I just was like that's not what I want and I I was like if this is gonna change my life dramatically not being in that relationship then I wanna change it dramatically.

我明白你的意思。

I get what you're saying.

就像，我也很理解，很多人应该都能感同身受。

It's like, I also appreciate and I think a lot of people can relate to this.

有时候，当你和伴侣发生最激烈的争吵时，反而会感觉看到了隧道尽头的光，因为你意识到：我们从未如此坦诚过。

Randomly, sometimes when you have the worst fights of your life with your partner, it does feel like you can see the light at the end of the tunnel because you're like, we have never been this candid.

我们从来没有这样交流过。

We have not spoken in this way.

所以，这反而促成了一种对话，奇怪的是，我们得倒退一步，才能真正向前走。

So almost it allows for a dialogue where you're like, weirdly we backwards to kinda go forward.

我们现在正在

We're having

这正是我当时的处境。

a That is literally where I was at.

我确实就处在那样的状态。

I was literally where I was at.

因为我也在想，九年的情感关系不会因为一个醉酒的情人节就结束。

Because I'm also thinking to myself a nine year relationship is not a relationship that ends on a with a drunken Valentine's Day.

顺便说一下，那天晚上我们回家时都喝醉了。

By by the way, we were wasted when we got home that night.

所以我觉得，你不可能只靠一次醉酒的对话就解决问题。

So I'm like that's you don't just have one wasted conversation.

然后结束一段九年的关系。

And end a nine year relationship.

对。

Right.

没错。

So Right.

但对他来说，在那场对话中，显然完全没有提到他和任何人有婚外情的事。

But to him I he was clearly and obviously in that conversation there was nothing brought up about him having an affair with anyone alone.

所以整件事简直就像是一场无稽之谈。

So it's almost like the whole thing the whole thing was nonsense.

我记得我问他：‘如果你打算和我分手，为什么还要给我买花？’

I remember asking him I was like, why did you get me flowers if you were like, I'm going to break up with her?

他却说：‘我真的想给你买花。’

And he was like, well I really I wanted to get you flowers.

我当时就想：天哪。

You just I was like, oh my god.

他真的看起来是想两头都占着。

He really it really feels like he really wanted to have both.

我觉得是这样。

I think so.

我觉得他非常投入于这种双重生活。

I think he was very committed to the double life.

我同意。

I agree.

因为，你真的相信他在重聚之前打算结束这段关系吗？

Because do you actually believe he was gonna end it before the reunion?

我不知道。

I don't know.

老实说，很难确定。

Honestly, it's like hard to know.

我认为我确实看到过一些事情。

I do think that I've seen some things.

即使在拍摄完戒指之后，我也了解了一些事情。

I've learned some things even after filming the ring.

告诉我们吧。

Tell us

来吧，跟我们说说内幕。

come on give us the tea.

其中一件事是蕾切尔发给汤姆的一条短信，内容是：我刚和一位共同的朋友聊过，我不会说出他们的名字。

One of those things is a text message from Rachel to Tom saying I just talked to a mutual friend I won't name them.

他们说你应该对阿丽安娜诚实一些，不一定非得透露所有细节，比如一起睡在房子里，但她有权利知道这件事，然后就是：我爱你，你能行的。

And they said that you should be honest with Ariana maybe not so much about all the details like sleeping in the house together but that she deserves to know about this and then it's like I love you you got this.

太善良了，真的非常慷慨。

So kind, just so so generous.

所以我认为，就在我发现之前那一点点时间里，它

So I think it was only in that last little bit there right before I found out that it was even that it

正在被打磨。

was being workshopped.

对。

Right.

那时候，当我看到他们说，我们会在重聚之前就做这件事，因为我们不可能坐在她面前，让她替你们辩护。

That's when like when I saw that they they were like we were gonna do it before the reunion because we could never sit in front of her and let her defend.

我心想，老兄，这不就是你们一直在做的事吗？

I'm like bro, that's what you've been doing.

你们一直坐在她面前，让她替你们、拉奎尔和所有人辩护。

You've been sitting in front of her and letting her defend you and Raquel and everyone.

是的。

Mhmm.