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怎么了，老爹帮？
What is up, daddy gang?
我是你的开国元勋，亚历克斯·库珀，
It is your founding father, Alex Cooper,
来玩叫爸爸吧。
with call her daddy.
爸爸。
Daddy.
爸爸。
Daddy.
爸爸。
Daddy.
希拉里
Hillary
达夫，欢迎来到叫爸爸。
Duff, welcome to call her daddy.
谢谢。
Thanks.
你最近挺忙的。
You've been busy.
我知道。
I know.
姑娘。
Girl.
我知道。
I know.
你确实挺忙的。
You have been busy.
我知道。
I know.
你正在巡演。
You're on tour.
你即将发行十年来的第一张专辑。
You have an album coming out for the first time in ten years.
我觉得我的朋友们在社交媒体上真的被我刷屏了。
I feel like my friends are really sick of me actually on their feed.
他们说，我们根本看不到你。
They're like, we don't ever see you.
现在好了，我们的Instagram上全是你的动态。
And now we do our like, Instagram is just full of you.
我就说，现在互联网上全是希拉里·达夫。
I'm like, The Internet is Hilary Duff right now.
每次我打开Instagram、TikTok或者其他任何平台，我都想，好吧，希拉里，你又出现了。
Every single time I open Instagram, TikTok, anything, I'm like, okay, Hilary You're
我懂了。
like, I get it.
她回来了。
She's back.
我明白。
I get it.
不过你对此感觉如何？
How are you feeling about it though?
说实话，我非常享受这一切，简直不能再期待更好的欢迎了。
Honestly, I'm enjoying it a lot, and I couldn't have asked for, like, a better welcome.
你知道的？
You know?
一切都感觉那么充满庆祝氛围，那么温暖，那么充满活力。
Like, everything has feel like, felt so, like, celebratory and, like, kind and, like, like, energized.
我只是不断回到这个词上，我想说：哇。
Like, I just I that that's just, the word that I keep coming back to where I'm like, wow.
我真的没意识到会有这么大的需求。
I really didn't realize it was such an appetite.
而且，你永远不知道会怎样。
And, like, I'm you never know how it's gonna go.
我真的休息了很久，而最初的几步简直像一场梦。
Like, I really took a huge break, and the the, like, first steps have been like a dream.
但这真的很难。
So but it's super hard.
而那些不那么光鲜的后半部分，涉及大量复杂的环节、排期和工作，还有你知道的，我有四个孩子和一个我非常想陪伴的家庭。
And, like, the back half that's not shiny is, like, a lot of moving parts and a lot of scheduling and a lot of work and a lot of, like you know, I have four kids and a family that I really like being with.
所以。
So
我今天特别想和你聊这个，因为我觉得可能有很多女性都会想：我们知道从技术上讲不可能事事兼顾，但你看起来真的在样样都做。
that's what I'm so excited to talk to you about today because I think there's probably so many women who are like, we know we can't technically do it all, but it really looks like you're literally doing it all.
我觉得这挺有趣的。
I thought it was funny.
今天早上我做研究的时候，大家都把这称为‘希拉里·达夫的复兴’。
I was researching this morning, and everyone's kind of calling this like the Hillary Duff Renaissance.
他们都说：她回来了。
Like, every they're like, she's back.
对你来说，这种感觉在哪些方面像是一种重生或自我的重新介绍？
In what ways for you has this kind of felt like a rebirth or like a reintroduction of you?
这就像一种结合，我和我丈夫一直觉得，这会是一次超棒的胜利巡演。
It's this, like, combination of like, forever, my husband and I were just like, this is gonna be a sick victory lap.
我们一直这么称呼它。
And we kinda kept calling it that.
能处在人生这个阶段，真正拥有对自己、对事物的感受、自己的观点、以及愿意或不愿意做的事的掌控权，真的很棒，还有不懂就问，整个人都变得更好、更清晰了。
And it's really cool to be at this stage of my life and just have ownership over myself and, like, what I feel about things and my opinion and what I will and won't do and, like, not knowing and having to ask and, like, just this whole like, I'm just so much better and, like, clearer.
而且，能有机会回去庆祝那些曾经我觉得不再属于我的东西，我真的非常期待。
And, like, to get to have the the opportunity to go back and, like, celebrate things that, you know, I didn't feel like were mine anymore is like, I'm just really looking forward to it.
你能再详细解释一下，你说的‘我觉得那些不再属于我’是什么意思吗？
Can you explain a little bit more about what you mean by, like, you didn't feel like they were yours anymore?
这看起来似乎比实际更沉重。
That it's it's kind of seems heavier than it is.
但就连想想我的歌单会是什么样子、哪些歌我会觉得舒服到在舞台上表演、或者唱那些二十年前的歌词时，我都会想：我该怎么登场，怎样才能让这一切真正成为我自己？
But even, like, thinking about what my my set list is gonna look like and what songs I'm going to be comfortable putting on, you know, actually doing with my body on stage and or, like, singing lyrics of songs that are twenty years old and being like, what is how do I how do I show up and, like, just make this me?
我觉得在排练之前，那些歌还感觉不完全属于我，我不知道该怎么让它们变成我的。
And I think before rehearsals, it felt like those weren't quite mine yet, and I didn't know how to make them that way.
然后我就开始彻底重新演绎它们。
And then I was like just started tearing it up.
我心里想：明白了。
And I was like, got it.
我来这儿是为了大放异彩的。
I'm here to eat.
而且，这其实很简单。
And like, it's easy.
我觉得自己已经和那些过去拉开了一定距离，所以不会感到尴尬或不适。
And I feel far enough removed from it that I'm not like embarrassed or uncomfortable.
它们属于我，而且是我可以一直保留的。
Like, it they're mine, and they're mine to to keep.
就连《爱之舞》也是这样。
And, like, even the with love dance.
就像，那其实是互联网上关于《With Love》舞蹈的传说。
Like, that was, like, a a like, the Internet lore around the with love dance.
太棒了。
So good.
太棒了。
So good.
但对我来说，太吓人了。
But like, for me, horrifying.
真的吓人到极点。
Like, absolutely horrifying.
但现在，我觉得我能参与其中，这有趣多了。
But like, now, I'm like, this is I get to be a part of it, and it's way more fun.
我觉得这就是生活。
Which I think is life.
我采访过很多童星，发现他们的生活中普遍存在这样一个主题。
Like, I've interviewed so many people that were child stars, and it feels like a pretty prominent theme in a lot of your lives.
就像从你人生中那段人人都记得的、极其喧嚣的时期抽身而出，保持一定的距离
It's like having enough distance from that really, really loud time in your life that everyone remembers you from
是的
Yeah.
或者只是因为每个人都能挖出来。
To be Or just that everyone can dig up.
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
比如，我会希望，这真的很难，你得足够坚强，你知道吗？因为成长过程中，每个人都记得你所有的经历，这真是一种疯狂的体验。
Like, well, I would I would love for, like it's just it's a hard you gotta be tough, you know, because that is to grow up and have everybody to, like, recall all of your all of your, like, chapters is a wild experience.
还有视频和照片，是的。
And have footage and pictures and Yeah.
还有评论和凭证。
Commentary Receipts.
小报，就是你所能想象到的一切，就像每个人在青春期尴尬阶段时，庆幸自己没发过那些照片。
Tabloids, like, everything you could imagine that, like, everyone when they were in their awkward middle school phase that were like, thank god, like, didn't post that picture.
你会说，但那些照片是发给我的。
You're like, well, it was posted to me.
我没有选择的余地。
I didn't have an option.
没错。
Correct.
我觉得特别被低估的是，你已经持续了数十年的职业生涯，这可是极少数人才能做到的。
And I feel like what's so underrated is like, you have had decades of sustaining a career, which is very few people are able to maintain that.
我觉得。
I feel like
这真的很棒，我的职业生涯中经历了许多起起落落。
that's really nice, and there's been a lot of highs and lows in my career.
好吧。
Okay.
好吧，我们会一一讨论这些，但我确实想引用你的话，因为我懂。
Well, we're gonna go through all of them, but I did wanna just I was gonna quote you because I'm like, I get it.
你有时候会处在聚光灯下，有时候则不会。
Like, you've done moments where you're kind of, like, more in the spotlight versus not.
但确实如此。
But Yeah.
你去年对《Vogue》说，你做事的出发点是：还有人关心我吗？
You told Vogue last year that you operate from a place of does anyone still care about me?
我想让你再多谈谈你这句话的意思。
I wanted you to talk a little bit more about what you meant by that.
我觉得，作为一个童星，做了一些深深烙印在人们灵魂里的事，这带来了许多困惑，也在我心里留下了一道深深的伤疤，让我一直怀疑：人们是否真的觉得，那个在电视上从未长大的角色，就永远定格在那里了？
I think they're being a child actor and doing something that made such a big mark on people's, like, literal soul created a lot of confusion and, like, a pretty big battle scar on me where I'm like, do people feel that like, playing a role on TV that never grows up, like, she's just there forever.
对吧？
Right?
所以，从青春期后期，到二十出头，甚至三十岁出头，我一直都在挣扎：人们爱的是我，还是那个角色？
And so getting into my, like, late teen hood into, like, my early twenties, and even, like, early thirties, where I feel like the battle of, like, frustration that, like, do people love me or do they love that character?
但无论我去哪里，人们都会说，你养大了我之类的。
But yet everywhere I go, people, you know, say, you raised me or, like, whatever.
而现在，我已经足够自信，足够好了。
And, like, now I'm, like, confident enough and, like, fine enough.
而且我觉得我足够喜爱我的新作品，能够去庆祝过去的作品。
And I think I love my new work enough to where I can, like, celebrate the old.
你只是觉得，哇。
You just feel like, wow.
我会不会做任何一件事，也能像那样深深触动某人呢？
Will I ever do anything that will, like, resonate with someone the same?
然后你就带着这种想法，觉得自己不够好，或者那不是真正的你，对吧？
And then you carry that as, like, a you're not good enough or it wasn't you know?
但与此同时，我的职业生涯简直太棒了。
But meanwhile, like, I've had an amazing career.
《年轻有为》是我职业生涯的巅峰。
Like, Younger was career highlight.
我喜欢这个剧。
Love that show.
太有趣了，真喜欢。
Love that So fun.
太棒了。
So good.
人们直到它完结后才真正发现它。
People didn't really find it until it was, like, done.
但当时我答应接下这个角色，其实非常害怕，因为我得去纽约，离开我的孩子，但那也是我一个巨大的成长阶段，让我意识到：我在做一件好事，别再总去衡量了。
But like, that was a huge part of my something that I said yes to that was really scary because I had to like be in New York and be away from my child and like but like a huge growth period for me of like, oh, I'm doing something good and like, stop measuring.
我不必再持续衡量我每一个项目的成功与否。
Like, I don't have to continue to measure all of my projects and the success that they've had.
你这么说很有趣，因为我觉得我认识的一些音乐人，如果他们曾经有过一首冠军单曲，就会觉得：天啊。
It's interesting you say that because I feel like some musicians I've talked to, if they had a number one hit ever come out, then they're like, shit.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你一开始就表现得如此出色，很多人对此羡慕不已，但你却觉得，现在这成了衡量我必须达到的标准。
Because you come out of the gate so strong, which a lot of people are envious of, but you're like, but now that's kind of the barometer of, like, where I have to hit.
还有《莉琪·麦奎尔》那样的时刻，你突然改变了自己的生活，也改变了无数他人的生活。
And having a Lizzie McGuire moment, you're like, change your life, change so many other people's lives.
但现在我明白你的意思了。
But now it's like, I hear what you're saying.
你是不是在想，我还能否达到那样的高度？
You're like, can I ever live up to that?
是的。
Yeah.
这正是我认为这个阶段对你的粉丝来说如此令人兴奋的原因。
Which is why I think this era is so exciting for your fans.
对。
Yeah.
基本上，今天我觉得，我们得给点怀旧感。
Basically, today, I'm like, we need to give a little nostalgia.
当然。
Of course.
但今天我真的想更多地了解你作为女性——希拉里·达夫的一面，因为我觉得你之前谈了太多关于你年轻时候的事。
And then though I do really today want to get to know you more as the woman, Hilary Duff, because I agree you've talked so much about your younger years.
我现在很喜欢去探访她。
I love to visit her now.
我对这个状态很满意。
I'm I'm good with it.
好的。
Okay.
让我们回到那些可能不太熟悉你的人。
Let's go back to people who may not be familiar.
你最初获得了丽兹·麦奎尔这个角色。
You initially get the role of Lizzie McGuire.
你能简单讲讲那次试镜的经历吗？你是怎么得到这个角色的？
Can you just, like, kind of lightly tell the story of how that audition went and how you even got the role?
是的。
Yes.
所以我实际上被一部ABC电视台的剧集换掉了。
So I actually had been replaced off of a TV show that was an ABC show.
他们用一对双胞胎替换了我，这样可以延长拍摄时间。
And they replaced me with twins so they could, like, work longer hours.
我当时就说，好吧。
And I was like yeah.
我当时大概十岁，心想，我被开除了。
I was probably 10 years old, and I'm like I got fired.
你能想象吗？
Like, can you imagine?
因为他们不是两个你。
Because they're not two of you.
对。
Yeah.
确实如此。
That is.
顺便说一下，当你是个童星的时候，你会想：我需要两个我吗？
By the way, when you're a child actor, you're like, you need two of me?
好吧。
Okay.
我该怎么做到这一点？
How do I make that work?
你就像是条狗。
Like, you're like a dog.
就是想讨好别人。
Like, just wanna please.
你知道的。
You know?
所以那真的非常打击人。
So that was really devastating.
我当时就想，我想回家。
And I was like, I wanna go home.
我不想再待在洛杉矶了。
I don't wanna be in LA anymore.
我回到了德克萨斯，开始上真正的学校。
I went back to Texas, started going to real school.
我妈妈给我打电话，说他们想见我，为《莉琪·麦奎尔》试镜。
And my mom called me, and she was like, they wanna see you for Lizzie McGuire.
我之前已经试镜过好多迪士尼频道的节目了。
And I I I had auditioned for a bunch of Disney Channel shows before.
所以他们对我很熟悉，经常叫我过去。
So they were, like, familiar with me and called me a lot.
但我一个都没选上。
I never booked any of them.
我当时就想，不去了。
And I was like, no.
随便吧。
Whatever.
不知怎么的，我又去了加利福尼亚。
And somehow I got out to California.
他们说，我改变主意了。
They like, I changed my mind.
我去看了我的朋友们一个周末，就是我在橡树公寓的洛杉矶朋友们。
I I got to see my friends for the weekend, like my Oakwood apartment, LA friends.
我完全没有准备好。
And I was not prepared.
试镜的台词是一大段独白。
It was a pretty big monologue, the the audition.
我以前总是很认真地准备试镜。
And I used to be pretty prepared and take auditions seriously.
而我当时根本一点都没准备。
And I was, like, 0% prepared.
而选角导演罗宾·利平斯说：‘你根本没看这个剧本。’
And Robin Lipins, the casting director was like, you didn't even look at this.
我说：‘没错。’
And I was like, correct.
呃，对不起。
Like, sorry.
她问我：‘你明天能回来，把这段背下来吗？’
She's like, can you come back tomorrow and know this?
我说：‘哦，挑战接受。’
And I was like, oh, challenge accepted.
走吧。
Let's go.
我认真练习了，回去后表现得非常出色。
And I worked on it, came back, ripped in there.
你本来就应该这样。
As you should.
她问：‘你有什么特别的才能？’
She was like, what are your special talents?
我说：‘哦，我更喜欢用手走路而不是用脚。’
I was like, oh, I prefer to walk on my hands more than my feet.
我觉得我当时就是很疯癫，他们也觉得，我进来时穿着不搭配的衣服，因为那很符合我的风格。
Like, I think I was just wacky and they were and like, I think I came in with like mismatched clothing because that was very me.
然后我就拿到了这个角色。
And then I got it.
等等。
Wait.
发生这件事的时候你多大？
And how old were you when this was happening?
我想我当时应该是11岁，快12岁了，或者刚满12岁。
I think I must have been, like, 11 turning 12 or had just turned 12.
然后我们拍了试播集，之后就停拍了一段时间。
And then we shot the pilot and then didn't shoot for a while.
我记得，当时没抱太大希望。
So I remember, like, not getting my hopes up.
我记得我妈说，别抱太大希望。
I remember my mom being like, don't get your hopes up.
想想看，会发生什么呢？
Remember, like, what can happen?
这挺让人兴奋的。
Like, it's exciting.
我们会很兴奋，但呢
We're gonna be excited, but, like
十岁就被炒鱿鱼，这事儿。
Not getting fired at, like, 10 years old from a job.
一开始，这会给你留下心理阴影。
At first, like, that'll scar you.
你可能会说
You're like
或者成为电视剧的主角。
Or being the star of the TV show.
这部电视剧就叫《莉琪·麦奎尔》，你会希望它被续订。
The TV show is literally called Lizzie McGuire, And you're like, hope it gets picked up.
如果没被选中，那就
And if it doesn't, like
我是个失败者。
I'm a failure.
我肯定表现得很差。
Probably I sucked.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，对啊。
Oh, yeah.
作为一个11岁、差不多12岁的孩子，根本没什么压力。
Like, no pressure as an 11 year old, basically, 12.
你觉得随着《莉琪·麦奎尔》这部剧的持续播出，它开始如何塑造和影响你的个性？
How do you think playing Lizzie as it continued, like, started to kind of shape and inform your personality?
我觉得她就像是每个人心中的女孩，而我也一直觉得自己是这样的。
I think that she was kind of like the everybody's girl, and I also feel like I've always been that.
而且，我有一种非常奇怪的混合特质——我一直对自己充满信心。
So And also, like, a little I have this very weird mixture of, like, I'm always been confident in who I am.
我觉得她也有这种特质，但她同时也有点笨拙，不属于任何单一类型。
And I think that she had that, but she was also, like, kinda dorky and had all these she didn't really fit under one category.
所以我觉得她才那么可爱、那么讨人喜欢。
And, you know, that's why I think she was so, like, lovable and and endearing.
我觉得我自己到现在还是有点这样，只是有时候我能穿得更时尚一点。
And I feel like I've also still kinda carry that, but I just can, like, dress chic sometimes.
你的时尚品味确实进步了。
You're like, my fashion has gotten better.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
你很好，莉齐，但我已经翻篇了。
Lovely you, Lizzie, but I moved on.
明白吗？
K?
你可以说那边的我，其实帅得要命。
You can say over there, I actually look chic as fuck.
确实如此。
You do.
当然，我一直在想你，比如在德克萨斯长大，经历这一切。
Obviously, I'm thinking about you even just being like, oh my god, like, growing up in Texas and all of this.
然后这部剧突然大获成功。
Like, then the show becomes a massive success.
是的。
Mhmm.
你很快就成了当时世界上最著名的年轻女性之一。
And you quickly become one of the most famous young women in the world at the time.
就像嗯。
Like Mhmm.
你有没有什么核心记忆，是关于突然意识到‘天啊，我现在真的出名了’的？
Do you have any core memories of realizing like, oh my god, I'm now like famous.
比如，人们都认识我。
Like, people know me.
是的。
Yeah.
我曾经在时尚广场购物中心，正准备和朋友们出去玩，我们经常去那儿。
I was at the Fashion Square Mall, like, about to hang out with my friends, which we did all the time.
贝弗利中心也是。
And there were Beverly Center too.
那里有莉琪·麦奎尔的海报，挂在那些旋转展示架上。
There was, like, posters of Lizzie McGuire on the, like, circulating things.
结果我被一群孩子围住了。
And I get, like, mobbed by kids.
而且，商场里一个工作人员，直接把我拖进了一个清洁储藏室，或者某个放杂物的储藏间，然后让我打电话给妈妈，或者找个人来接我。
And, like, somebody that works at the mall, like, sticks me in basically, like like, a cleaning closet or, like, some some, like, closet where they keep supplies or, like and just, like, pulls me into the back, and they're like, you need to call your mom or call someone to come and pick you up.
嘿，妈妈。
Hey, mom.
我们忘了那件事，是的。
We forgot that, like Yeah.
我现在 basically 很有名了。
I'm basically famous now.
我被困在商场的扫帚柜里了。
I'm in the broom closet of the mall.
你能来接我吗？
Like, can you come get me?
我努力装成一个普通的女孩，但根本行不通。
I'm trying to act like a normal girl, and it's not working out for shit.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
我
I
我知道。
know.
然后那之后，你有没有意识到，也许我不该去那些地方
And then after that, did you realize, like, maybe I can't go those
但当时另一件事是，当一个迪士尼小孩还没那么酷。
But then the other thing that was happening was, like, it wasn't that cool to be a Disney kid yet.
现在你是迪士尼小孩，拥有庞大的事业。
Like, now you're a Disney kid, and you have, like, this massive career.
但那时候可不是这样，你并没有因为出演过迪士尼频道的节目，又开始当歌手而获得太多尊重。
That wasn't really you it's not like you have, like, mad respect because you had a a Disney Channel show, and you were, like, starting to be a singer.
那是在一切之前的事了。
Like, that was pre everything.
跟我说说你在家的生活。
Talk to me about your life at home.
你成了一个大明星。
You become this big star.
比如，这对你在家里普通的生活有什么影响？
Like, how did it impact your normal life at home?
说实话，直到后来才有所改变。
Honestly, it didn't until later.
有些事情是后来才变的，但我的妈妈一直很严格。
Like, some things changed later, but, like, but my mom was pretty strict.
她有一种奇怪的组合：她信任我们，但同时觉得，你上了电视节目也不该得到特殊待遇。
She she had this, like, weird combination of, like, she trusted us, but she was like, you don't get special treatment because you're on a TV show.
你知道的？
You know?
在《莉琪·麦奎尔》之前，我们已经在这儿打拼了四年。
Like, we had been we had been out here kicking around for, like, four years pre me getting Lizzie McGuire.
所以，我记得她在我18岁左右的时候会收走我的手机，那次她想拿走我的手机，我就跟她顶嘴顶得很厉害，我说：‘我付的账单。’
So like, she would I remember she would like take my cell later when I was like 18, I remember she tried to take my cell phone away and I like sassed her so bad and I was like, I paid the bill.
她就说：‘绝对不行。’
She was like, absolutely not.
她让我坐下。
She's like, sit down.
你就说：‘好吧。’
You're like, okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，大家普遍认为你是少数几个成功避开了好莱坞主要陷阱的童星之一。
I feel like there's kinda like this known reputation you have as one of the few child stars who escaped the major pitfalls of Hollywood.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你有这种感觉吗？
Do you feel that way?
你觉得你算是比较完好地走出来了么？
Like, do you feel like you got out pretty unscathed?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得人们看我可能会觉得她过得挺轻松的，但说实话，我一点都没觉得轻松。
I think that there's no I think that people look at me and think like, oh, she's had it easy maybe, and I definitely have not had it easy.
但我感觉还不错。
But I feel okay.
我的确就是感觉还不错。
Like, I really just feel okay.
我想我至少没有像有些人那样疯掉，大概吧。
I'm like, I did not, like, go crazy, I guess.
我觉得这很大程度上要归功于我的成长环境，小时候我感觉自己是被保护着的。
And I think that a lot of that could have to do with my upbringing and feeling, you know, like I was protected when I was a child.
但这个行业，真的他妈的很难。
But this industry is, like, really fucking hard.
只有当你离开一段时间，才能回过头来看清，哦，那件事真的很奇怪。
And it's not until you're like you take some space away from it that you can zoom in and be like, oh, that was a weird thing that happened.
哦，我是怎么挺过来的？
Oh, that was how did I get through that?
你知道的，确实有这么回事。
That you know, there's there's that.
我觉得，直到现在这个年纪，我才真正开始为自己如何度过这一切感到自豪。
And I I think it's taken getting to this age to be, like, give myself like, actually take some credit for how I navigated it.
对你个人而言，你认为是什么内在的东西在支撑你？
What do you think for you internally?
比如，抛开所有外界的喧嚣和周围的人，你内心真正依靠的是什么，才让你熬过了那段人生时期？
Like, not all the noise, not all the people around you, what internally did you have to tap into to kind of get through that period in your life?
这有点复杂。
So it's tricky.
而且，我也是通过心理咨询，不断追问自己‘我为什么那样做？’，才逐渐深入理解这一点的。
And again, it's been something that I've been able to, like, dive more into through, like, therapy and really being like, well, why did I do that?
或者我为什么会这样感觉？
Or how come I feel this way?
还有，不管怎样。
And if I whatever.
有趣的是，那时候我是青少年，心里想：我才不在乎呢。
Like, the thing that was also cool about it is being a teenager, and you're like, I don't give a fuck.
我只想和朋友们混在一起。
I just wanna hang out with my friends.
你知道，我就是渴望能像个普通人一样，做些正常的孩童或青少年该做的事，还有成年人的事。
You know, like, I had a desire to just be, like, normal and be doing normal kid things or teenager things and adult things.
所以，这些事情当时是同时存在的，挺奇怪的。
So it was this weird those things were, like, existing at the same time.
我觉得，这成了我一种解脱，因为我无法完全长大或掌控一切，而我能逃往的，就是生活中那部分正常的日常。
And I think it was, like, a reprieve from not being able to, like, fully grow up or take the reins was, like, just escaping with the normal part of my life that I could go to.
是的。
Yeah.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
你得找到自己的宣泄方式。
You kinda have to, like, find your outlet.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时在乎我的男朋友，但其他那些事情都让我觉得烦。
And I, like, you know, cared about my boyfriend and just, like, all that other stuff was annoying to me.
是的。
Yeah.
然后你最终还是会去面对它。
And then eventually, you would deal with it.
我确实这样做了。
I did.
好吧。
Okay.
我们即将告别你人生中这个年轻的阶段，但我需要了解几件事。
Let's go through we're about to move on from this younger phase of your life, but I do need to know a couple of things.
好的。
Okay.
你准备好了吗？
Are you ready?
好的。
Okay.
你就像，我不知道。
You're like, I don't know.
你打算问我什么？
What are you about to ask me?
好的。
Okay.
你是不是故意搞砸了《辣妈辣妹》的首映？
Did you intentionally crash the Freaky Friday premiere?
天哪。
Oh my god.
关于这件事的传闻呢，希拉里？
The lore around this, Hillary?
我认为绝对是的。
I think absolutely yes.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时是个青少年。
I was a teenager.
等等。
Wait.
当琳赛·洛翰出现在《养家糊口》首映式时，你感到惊讶吗？
Were you surprised when Lindsay Lohan showed up to the Cheaper by the Dozen premiere?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
我的意思是，那简直就是我的童年宿敌。
I mean, that was, like, my childhood feel like like nemesis.
太疯狂了。
So crazy.
我知道。
I know.
所以，我的意思是，我等不及了。
So you Which I mean, I can't wait.
我敢打赌我的公关人员会说：‘你这是在干什么？’
I'm sure my publicist will be like, what the fuck are you doing?
但现在已经是很多年以后了。
But now it's so many years later.
谁还在乎呢？
Like, who cares?
这没关系。
It does not matter.
还有，有一次琳赛在俱乐部找我，问我：我们和好了吗？
Also, like, Lindsay came up to me at a club once and was like, are we good?
我说：我们和好了。
And I was like, we're good.
她就说：我们干一杯吧。
She was like, let's take a shot.
我说：好啊。
I like, okay.
那真是太棒了。
It was amazing.
但还有，查德·迈克尔·默里邀请了我。
But also, like, Chad Michael Murray invited me.
为什么？
Why?
他让我跟他一起去，我不想再惹什么事了，但他就是这么说的。
Would he I don't wanna start any more stuff, But, like, he was like, you should come with me.
我当时就说，嗯嗯。
And I was like, mhmm.
我大概应该去的。
Probably I should.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
说实话，我当时算什么？
Honestly I mean, what was I?
六岁吗？
Like, six?
不是。
No.
我觉得我那时比那还小。
I think I was younger than that.
千禧一代的女生们此刻正在电视前尖叫。
The millennial girls are screaming at their TVs right now.
接下来，你为了饰演《学员凯莉》中的角色真的接受过军事训练吗？
Next, is it true that you had military training for your role in cadet Kelly?
是的。
Yes.
对。
Mhmm.
他们真的把这当回事了。
They really took it that serious.
哦，是啊。
Oh, yeah.
我只是想让你知道，我确实买了
I just need you to know that I literally bought
一辆车。
a car.
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也许你还能用一把步枪，就像你那边那把步枪那样？
Could still do, like, a rifle that you got a rifle over in here?
哦，不。
Oh, no.
但我们没有。
But we don't.
我觉得你肯定没有。
I think you definitely don't.
你记得的。
You remember.
我觉得我会记得一些那种嗒嗒声，你是怎么操作的，比如转来转去。
I think I would remember some of the, like, tap tap, how you, like, it and, like, flip it around.
而且基本上就像指挥棒那样，不过那时候确实有女性用指挥棒。
And it was basically, like, baton kind of, but with, well, there was baton women in that way.
指挥棒。
Baton.
是的
Yeah.
哦，我想起来了。
Oh, I remember.
是的
Yeah.
我们在多伦多的一家舞蹈工作室。
We were at a dance studio in Toronto.
我记得。
I remember.
当时我和克里斯蒂·卡尔森·罗曼诺会从他们安排所有小演员住的酒店步行到街上的这家舞蹈工作室，那地方真的非常严格。
And, like, Christy Carlson Romano and I would, like, walk from this hotel that they put all the, like, actor kids up in in Toronto and go to this, like, dance studio down the street, and it was really intense.
那部电影有很多特技，女孩。
That movie was stunts, so girl.
太棒了。
It was so good.
我记得我买了工装裤，想营造那种风格。
I remember I, like, bought cargo pants and, like, was trying to be like that vibe.
我当时在想，我到底想干嘛？
And I was like, what am I trying to do?
我在宾夕法尼亚州， literally 想模仿你，然后我就意识到，我得停下了。
Like, I was in Pennsylvania, like, literally trying to be you, and I was like, I need to stop.
好吧。
Okay.
下一个。
Next.
这是我最喜欢的之一。
This is one of my favorites.
你在《绯闻女孩》里和宾·巴格利有过荧幕恋情。
You had an on screen romance with Penn Badgley in Gossip Girl.
我永远忘不了当我得知希拉里·达芙要出演《绯闻女孩》第三季时，我正在哪里。
I will never forget where I was when I found out miss Hilary Duff was going to be in season three of Gossip Girl.
我当时
I was
第三季？
season three?
第三季。
Season three.
我知道。
I know.
我抬头看了看，因为忘了每季有大约90集。
I looked up because I forgot there was, like, 90 episodes per season.
你是怎么接到这个角色的？为什么会想接呢？
How were you approached for the role, and, like, why did you wanna do it?
我是被这部剧的创作者联系的。
I was approached by the creators of the show.
好的。
Okay.
他们就说：我们特别希望你能出演《绯闻女孩》。
And they were just like, we would love to have you on Gossip Girl.
我当时就说：我超爱《绯闻女孩》。
And I was like, I love Gossip Girl.
而且当然了。
And yes.
顺便说一下，我和宾·巴德利一起长大的。
And by the way, I grew up with Penn Badgley.
真的吗？
You did?
是的。
Yeah.
我小时候住在名叫橡树公寓的地方，而他是莱克赛德区的孩子。
So I grew up at this, like, apartment complex called Oakwood Apartments, and he was a Lakeside kid.
但有时候我们会一起聚在一起玩。
But sometimes we would, like, all hang out.
这就像是你去了坎贝尔大厅，但有人去了橡树公寓，而你们全都
It'd be like if you went to Campbell Hall, but someone goes to Oakwood and you, like, all
那是一种小演员的感觉，还是只是普通孩子，而你恰好
And was this, like, little actor vibes or just, like, normal kids and you just happened to
认识他？
know him?
都很正常。
Were normal.
大多数
Most of
他们都是演员。
them were actors.
明白了。
Okay.
所以你一上片场就立刻认出他了？
So you were, like, you knew him immediately when you stepped on set?
是的。
Yeah.
但说实话，我觉得当我到那儿的时候，他们都已经彼此厌倦了。
But, honestly, that was a tough I think they were kinda all sick of each other by the time I got there.
并不是那种天啊，我们聚在一起玩。
It wasn't like, oh my god, we're hanging.
挺有趣的。
It's fun.
我当时就想，哦，我只是来上班的。
I was like, oh, I'm showing up to a job.
对。
And Right.
你觉得现在的气氛相当紧张吧。
You're like, tension is pretty high right now.
感觉确实挺紧张的。
It felt pretty high.
是的。
Yeah.
我们需要谈谈那个震惊世界的三人行。
We need to talk about the threesome that shocked the world.
因为当我告诉你那个三人行时，我想对那些不记得的人说，那是丹、凡妮莎和你。
Because when I tell you that threesome, I was like, to those who don't remember, it was Dan, Vanessa, and you.
是的。
Yeah.
全世界都气疯了。
And the world was so pissed.
你还记得全世界有多生气吗？
Do you remember the world got really pissed?
不记得。
No.
因为他们试图强行制造丹和凡妮莎的浪漫氛围，而我们却说：别再硬撮合了。
Because they were trying to force the Dan and Vanessa romantic vibe, and we were like, stop trying to make it happen.
这根本不该发生。
It never should happen.
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
然后我觉得你当时在三人组里，待在角落里，而丹根本不是那样，他更偏向瓦妮莎。
And then I think you were in the threesome, like, hanging out in the corner, and Dan wasn't like, he was going for Vanessa more.
我得再看一遍这个。
I need to rewatch this.
我想说，你能看出来我看过这个无数次了吗？
I was gonna say, do you know can you tell I've watched this, like, a million back?
太棒了。
Amazing.
我当时感觉被冷落了。
I was getting, like, the the shaft.
你那时候是
You were getting
因为那时丹和凡妮莎正在发展他们的浪漫关系。
shaft because it was, like, Dan and Vanessa, like, finding their romance.
而你心里想：丹，我干嘛在这儿？
And you were like, Dan, like, why am I even here?
就像
Like
你心里想：我是名人啊。
You're like, I'm the famous one.
我不是那个著名的女演员吗？
Wasn't I, like, a famous actress?
你是那个著名的
You were a famous
女主角。
girl in it.
但我得告诉你一件有趣的事。
But I have to tell you something funny that happened.
有时候我在欧洲时就会发生这种情况。
And sometimes this happens when I'm in Europe.
而且像《莉琪·麦奎尔》是在我的音乐在欧洲走红之后才出现的。
And like, Lizzie McGuire happened later after my music in, like, Europe.
哦。
Oh.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我在那里并没有立刻因为《莉琪·麦奎尔》而广为人知。
And so I wasn't, like, totally known for Lizzie McGuire there right away.
好的。
Okay.
更多人是因为我的音乐认识我。
It was more like my music stuff.
后来我觉得《莉琪·麦奎尔》在那里也变得特别火，不管怎样。
And then some people I think Lizzie McGuire got huge there eventually, whatever.
我不久前和两个最好的朋友去巴黎旅行，我的行李没跟上。
I was in Paris not too long ago on a girls trip with two of my best friends, and my bag didn't make it.
机场的一个女孩问我：你是《绯闻女孩》里的角色吗？
And the girl at the airport was like, are you from Gossip Girl?
我回答：是的。
And I'm like, yeah.
当这种事发生时，我会特别着迷。
And I get obsessed when things like that happen.
所以有时候，会遇到一些奇怪的《绯闻女孩》粉丝。
So sometimes, like, weird Gossip Girl fanatics.
这真是太棒了。
We that's so good.
这不是很有趣吗？
Isn't that funny?
那一刻你一定特别开心吧。
You must be so happy in that moment.
你是
You're
是的。
like, yes.
我来自《绯闻女孩》。
I am from Gossip Girl.
我不记得我叫什么名字了。
I don't remember what my name was.
我不记得我的台词是什么，我的场景是什么，但我确实在那里。
I don't remember what my lines were, what my scenes were, but I was there.
我不记得我叫什么
I don't remember what my name
在那里。
was there.
有趣。
Fun.
老兄，这个粉丝群体真是
Dude, that fandom is
太疯狂了。
so crazy.
你能快点把我的包拿过来吗？
So can you get me my bag quickly?
是的。
Yeah.
因为我想着，我是在《绯闻女孩》里出演过吗？
Because I was like, in Gossip Girl?
他们说，那是《莉琪·麦圭尔》吗？
They're like, is that Lizzie McGuire?
你得说，不是。
You're like, no.
不是。
No.
女孩。
Girl.
说实话，太棒了。
Honestly, so good.
好吧。
Okay.
我听说扮演伊桑·克劳夫特的演员真的邀请你参加他的高中舞会。
I heard that the actor who played Ethan Kraft invited you to his high school formal in real life.
你去了吗？
Did you go?
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
我去过很多高中舞会。
I went to a lot of high school former formals.
在那时，你就出名了。
And at that point, you're famous.
嗯。
Mhmm.
那后来是怎么样的？
How did that work?
学校里的人对我能去那里感到非常兴奋。
The school was really excited that I was there.
我就只是说，是的。
And I was just like, yeah.
我真的很高兴能来这里。
I'm excited to be here.
我从来没上过高中或初中。
I didn't go to high school or middle school.
他们说，我在慢慢吸收这一切。
They're like, I'm taking it in.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就想，看啊，这么多人在舞池里拼命跳舞。
I'm like, look at all these people grinding on the dance floor.
我也是。
Me too.
走吧。
Let's go.
人们有没有让你清静？
Did people leave you alone?
我的意思是，我觉得够了。
Like, I think enough.
而且你和伊桑·克劳夫这个角色一起出现，简直让人脑洞大开，因为人们可能
And also you going with the Ethan Kraft character is kind of a mind fuck because people were probably
就像我们是一群人一起去的。
like We went as, a group.
好的。
Okay.
所以并不是像
So it wasn't like
不。
No.
行。
K.
你们之间有过什么吗？嗯嗯。
And did you guys ever have a thing Mm-mm.
幕后的？
Behind the scenes?
好的。
Okay.
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
伊森不是你的类型。
Ethan wasn't your vibe.
他确实养了一只鹦鹉，吓到我了，就在他家里。
That he did have a parrot that scared me at his house.
就像。
Like
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我到他家的时候，根本不知道自己站在一个巨大的鸟笼后面，那只鹦鹉直接扑过来，大叫‘boo’。
I showed up to the house and, like, I didn't know that I was, like, standing behind a giant bird cage, and the parrot, like, literally punct me and was like, boo.
我当时心想：天哪。
And I was like, oh my god.
而且，那只成年鹦鹉真的很会吓人。
And, like, the parent parrot, like, knew how to, like, scare.
伊森。
Ethan.
老伊森啊。
Good old Ethan.
我就只是像伊森那样。
I only I'm like Ethan.
伊森和凯特。
Ethan and Kate.
好的。
Okay.
在亚伦·卡特客串《莉琪·麦奎尔》之前，你们俩就已经在约会了吗？还是说是在片场才发展起来的？
Were you and Aaron Carter already dating before his cameo on Lizzie McGuire, or did that, like, bud on that set?
我们没在约会。
We weren't dating.
还有这个
Also, this
所有这些事情就是从这里开始的。
is where, like, all this stuff started.
那时候还没有社交媒体来讨论谁和谁在约会。
There was no social media to be like, who was dating who?
对吧？
Right?
天哪。
Oh my god.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
所以你就直接相信别人说的话。
So you just take people's word for it.
是的。
Yes.
然后，人们就会对你生气。
And then, like, people get mad at you.
等等。
Wait.
为什么？
Why?
我的意思是，如果你像林赛·洛翰或者我，而他很可能同时和我们俩约会，你知道我的意思吧？
I mean, if you're like Lindsay Lohan or me, and he's, like, probably dating both of us, like, you know what I mean?
哦，我明白了。
Oh, I see.
我就只是看到。
I just see.
你是说，你根本不可能不。
Like, you couldn't No.
发一条Instagram动态。
Put up an Instagram
我们现在在澄清了。
Well, we're clarifying now.
而且发短信就像按三个按钮，T九。
Also, texting was like pushing three buttons T nine.
来得到，比如，是的。
To get the, like yeah.
天啊。
Oh my god.
你和灰姑娘的故事，嘿。
You and Cinderella story, hey.
今天怎么样？
What's up today?
而且这不需要花上几个小时。
And it takes you not hours.
社交类的，比如，像TikTok那样的？
Social, like, one of the Like a TikTok?
是的。
Yeah.
为了某种目的而做某事。
Of that, doing something for something else.
我们坐在那儿，努力想让‘LOL’弹出来，我一边刷着屏幕。
And I'm we're sitting there trying to get the LOL to come up, and I'm, like, swiping at the screen.
然后有人就说，你得别再这样了。
And then someone was like, you need to stop doing that.
什么？
It's what?
像那种老式的翻盖手机吗？
Does, like, old flip phone cell phone?
要看到LOL，得像这样数到123，是的。
To get LOL, have to be like, 123 Yeah.
1234。
1234.
但这太疯狂了。
But it's so crazy.
我叫了楼下13岁的儿子过来，跟他说：我想让你看看我们以前是怎样的。
I called my son downstairs who's 13, and I was like, I just want you to watch what this used to be like for us.
他却说：我不在乎。
He's like, don't care.
他其实很贴心，就算不在乎，也会装出在乎的样子。
He's actually so sweet, and he if he doesn't care, he acts like he does.
你就像在说：看看妈妈以前得做什么。
You're like, look what mommy had to do.
这意味着，我们当时真的很投入。
That means, like, we were dedicated.
如果你当时想在T9上发一条短信
If you had a text that you wanted to send on t nine
我知道。
I know.
如果你发了一整段话，那就说明你爱上某人了。
If you sent a paragraph, you were in love with someone.
不。
No.
我知道。
I know.
那时候，那可是要花不少力气的。
It was like, that was a lot of effort.
那
That
真是费了不少劲。
was a lot.
那当你打错字，不得不回去修改的时候呢？
And what about when you would make a typo and, like, have to go And then you'd turn
然后整个内容都要重来。
back and the whole thing.
不。
No.
不。
No.
这完全是种全心全意的投入。
It was dedication through and through.
好的。
Okay.
非常抱歉。
So sorry.
我们回到亚伦·卡特的话题。
Back to Aaron Carter.
是的。
Yes.
我参加过他的生日派对。
I had met him at his birthday party.
我收到了他的生日派对邀请。
I got invited to his birthday party.
我跟你说，奥尔森双胞胎也在那里。
I'm telling you, the Olsen twins were there.
还有谁会在那里呢？
Who else would have been there?
我以为会有一长串让你兴奋的名字。
I thought it was gonna be like this huge list I could get you excited by.
你可能会说：但到场的是奥尔森双胞胎。
You're like But it was the Olsen twins.
好吧。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这才是最重要的。
So that's all that matters.
我？
Me?
我们很开心。
We're like happy.
也许艾曼达·拜恩斯也在那里。
Maybe Amanda Bynes was there.
哦。
Oh.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，那就像
I mean, it was like
元老们。
The OGs.
嗯。
Mhmm.
天哪。
Oh my god.
那天是生日。
It was birthday.
所以我在那里遇到了他。
So I met him there.
当时有一些小小的浪漫火花。
There was, like, some cute sparks.
然后我想我提议让他来参加节目。
And then I think I pitched the idea of having him come on the show.
然后，对，我们很快就开始约会了。
And then, right, we started dating pretty soon after that.
我需要每个人都重新看一遍，因为我今天早上化妆的时候刚看完。
I need everyone to go rewatch because I just did it this morning while I was putting my makeup on.
就是你和米兰达在角落里想要糖果的那个时刻。
The I want candy moment where you and Miranda are in the corner.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
你一直做那个把手指插进头发里的动作。
And you keep doing this thing where you're like putting your hand in your hair.
对。
Right.
你知道吗，这太棒了。
You know, it's so good.
因为你能看出来，你其实有点喜欢他。
Because you can tell you, like, kinda like him.
而他呢，就是想要你。
And he's like, I want you
到全银色连体衣？
to full silver jumpsuit?
全银色连体衣。
Full silver jumpsuit.
你的头发，还有你的头发全都做了卷发。
Your hair is, like and then your hair is all crimped
卷起来，做了卷发。
up and crimped.
当他走近你的时候，你一直做这个动作。
And you keep going like this when he comes over to you.
希拉里，这其实已经成为互联网上的一个经典场景了。
Hillary, it's actually I it's like an actual landmark on the Internet.
我真的需要每个人都去看一下，因为这段画面也太有电影感了。
Like, I need everyone to go watch it because it's so cinematic also.
它真的经得起反复观看。
It, like, holds up.
太棒了。
It was amazing.
好的。
Okay.
知道了。
Good to know.
好的。
Okay.
最后一个。
Last last one.
《莉琪·麦奎尔》电影。
Lizzie McGuire movie.
你得知道，直到今天，这依然是电影的巅峰之作。
It's important that you know, like, to this day, peak cinema.
电影的巅峰之作。
Peak cinema.
还有，你因为不是双胞胎而被解雇的事。
Like, also back to you getting fired for not being a twin.
嗨。
Hi.
你好。
Hello.
你得到了报复，因为你最终扮演了两个角色。
You got your revenge because you ended up playing two characters.
是的。
Yes.
我四岁的孩子一直问，怎么做到的？
My four year old is very like, how?
但怎么做到的？
But how?
被介绍。
Introduced.
你是怎么做到的？
How did you do that?
我当时就说，你别担心。
I'm like You're like, don't worry.
好的。
Okay.
等等。
Wait.
所以他们看过这部电影了吗？
So they have they seen the movie?
是的。
Yes.
我四岁的孩子在飞机上刚看完。
My four year old just watched it on a plane.
我知道。
I know.
电影结束时，她直接说，她就坐在我助理旁边。
And when it was over, she just goes, I she's sitting next to my assistant.
然后她又说：再来一遍。
And she was like, again.
不。
No.
我们所有人。
All of us.
她简直就是我们所有人再次重演。
She's literally all of us again.
你的其他孩子喜欢这部电影吗？
Do your other kids like the movie?
Banks 是个琳赛·洛翰的铁粉。
Banks is like a Lindsay Lohan stan.
不。
No.
是的
Yeah.
不
No.
说实话，Banks 完全就是我最狂热的啦啦队队长。
Honestly, Banks is like my number one, like, cheerleader to the max.
所以她显然完全不知道那些事。
So she like, she obviously, like, doesn't know any of that stuff.
我知道。
I know.
所以这其实是
So it's
我知道。
I know.
这真的太棒了。
It's actually amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
他们最喜欢你的哪个项目？
What is their favorite project of yours?
我还没问过。
I've not asked that.
我不知道。
I don't know.
你不知道？
You don't know?
不知道。
No.
你把一切都给他们看了吗？
Have you showed them everything?
没有。
No.
我不是那种会说，大家来，都坐下的类型。
I'm not like, let's go down, sit everybody sit down.
别管什么保持距离了。
Forget Stay away.
我忘了那其实并不像
I forget that it's like not
当妈的说，现在我们来看我的下一个项目，这并不酷。
cool of a mom to be like, now let's watch my next project.
但对我来说，我觉得他们还没看过《十二只老鼠》。
But for me, I'm like, they haven't seen Cheaper
《十二只老鼠》。
by the Dozen.
我觉得卢卡可能已经看过《十二只老鼠》了。
I think Luca probably has seen Cheaper by the Dozen.
我觉得他可能更感兴趣，因为那部片讲的是男孩、青蛙，还有足球之类的东西。
I think he was probably more interested in that because it was like boys and frogs and like football and, you know, things like that.
但他们已经看过一些了。
But they've seen some of it.
我的同一个助理前几天还偷偷看剧呢。
My same assistant put on, like, bunked the other day.
我知道。
I know.
我当时就想，你probably应该看《莉琪·麦奎尔》才对。
And I was like, you should probably be putting on Lizzie McGuire.
我觉得，你在干什么？
I feel like, what are you doing?
偷偷看剧？
Bunked?
你简直就是叛徒。
You're like, you're a traitor.
这是什么？
What is this?
现在播放《灰姑娘的故事》。
Turn on Cinderella Story now.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，我们需要知道他们什么时候真正
Well, we need to know when they actually
四岁的小孩已经看过《灰姑娘的故事》的部分内容，她基本上就是说，我们能直接跳到穿礼服的结局吗？
see four year old has seen parts of Cinderella Story, and she's basically like, can we just get to the end with the dress?
她不明白那个面具，以及他为什么没认出戴着面具的我。
And she doesn't understand the mask and how he didn't recognize me with that mask on.
我知道。
I know.
他这么说，‘妈妈，那是你。’
He's like, she that's you, mommy.
而你
And you're
是的。
like Yeah.
她问，‘但他怎么会认不出来呢？’
She's like, but how would he not know?
我当时说，‘不会的。’
And I was like, no.
我知道。
I know.
这是个古老的问题了，亲爱的。
That's the age old question, babe.
这才是最精彩的部分。
That's the best part.
这是整个事情中最棒的部分。
That's the best part of the whole thing.
好的。
Okay.
谢谢你陪我一起回忆往事。
Thank you for going down memory lane with me.
这非常有趣。
That was very fun.
你给了我们所有需要知道的信息。
You gave us all we needed to know.
我的意思是，你那么小就开始工作了。
I mean, started working so young.
你当时才11岁，却在这么小的年纪就经历了这么多人生。
You were like 11 years old, and you lived so much life at such a young age.
这对你二十多岁时寻找什么、准备好迎接什么产生了怎样的影响？
How did that impact what you were looking for and what you were ready for in your twenties?
天哪。
Oh, gosh.
我一直以来都是个注重感情的人。
I was I was always like a relationship girl.
所以我的一生几乎都在经历长期的恋爱关系。
So I was in like long term relationships my whole life really.
约会对我来说并不容易。
Dating was not easy for me.
就在那段时间，我遇到了迈克。
And so around that time, I met Mike.
我遇到了我的第一任丈夫。
I met my first husband.
我们在一起特别开心。
And we had so much fun.
那感觉就像是一个真正稳固的归宿。
And that just felt like a really solid, like, place to land.
你知道的吧？
You know?
因为你第一次结婚时才22岁。
Because you were 22 when you first got married.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我们认识的时候我才19岁，结婚时非常年轻。
So I was, like, 19 when we met, and we got married really young.
然后我那么年轻就有了卢卡，我觉得我一直都知道自己会是个年轻的妈妈。
And then I had Luca so young, and I think I was, like, very I always knew I was gonna be a young mom.
我一直都想当妈妈。
I always wanted to be a mom.
我一直想要很多孩子。
I always wanted a lot of kids.
所以那确实是非常重要的事。
So that was really it was major.
我的意思是，那真是段疯狂的时光。
I mean, that was a crazy time.
比如，20岁出头，23、24岁就怀孕了。
Like, to be 20 like, pregnant at 23, 24.
你怎么知道自己已经准备好面对事业了呢？
How did you know you were ready for that your career?
那时候我根本不在乎我的事业。
I didn't care about my career at that point.
迈克在打冰球。
Mike was playing hockey.
我会跟着他，一待就是好几个月，他去哪打球我就去哪。
I was, like, going to live with him for, like, months at a time wherever he would play.
我们只是在享受生活，对我的事业其实没那么在意。
And we were just, like, having fun, and I didn't really care that much about my career.
是的。
Yeah.
你这么年轻就经历了这么多，当你要当妈妈的时候，这对你来说意味着什么？
Having been so young and lived so much life, like, what did it mean to you when you had a child?
比如，当你有了卢卡，这彻底改变了一切吗？
Like, what like, when you had Luca, like, did it change everything for you?
是的。
Yeah.
真的改变了很多。
Big time.
我非常期待能有一个孩子来让我全心投入。
I was so excited to have him to focus on.
我的生活以前几乎全是围绕着我自己。
My life had been, like, so about me.
我不再想要那样的生活了。
And, like, I didn't want all of that.
我想，我只是想要一些真正属于我、可以紧紧抓住并全心投入的东西。
I wanted, I think, just something that felt like tangibly mine to hold on to and to focus on.
而且，是的，那真的很有趣。
And, yeah, it was really fun.
但也非常令人困惑。
It was also really confusing.
我当时没有一个朋友生过孩子或怀孕，因为显然我太年轻了。
I had not a single friend who had a baby or was pregnant because, obviously, I was so young.
我的朋友们都说：‘你认真的吗？少女妈妈？’
My friends were like, are you serious teen mom?
你在干什么？
What are you doing?
等等。
Wait.
你能谈谈这个吗？
Can you talk about that?
因为我觉得这非常有共鸣，我的很多观众要么是那个朋友都没到这个阶段就生了孩子的女孩，要么是反过来——所有朋友都在生孩子，而自己却没有？
Because I think that's, like, very relatable where a lot of my audience is either the girl that is having the baby that none of their friends are at that stage or the reverse where all their friends are having kids and they're not?
那这对你的友谊产生了什么影响？
Like, how did that impact your friendships?
我的朋友们都出去玩啊什么的。
Well, my friends were all going out and stuff.
而我心想，我不再那样做了。
And I was like, I'm not doing that anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
那确实有点难，但我其实没太在意这个。
And that was kind of hard, but I didn't really care about that as much.
我觉得所有身体上的变化对我来说都很重要。
It was just I think all the physical changes were a big deal for me.
我觉得我胖了大约50磅。
I think I gained, like, 50 pounds.
我怀他的时候，身高才一米五七。
I was pregnant with him, and I'm five two.
所以那简直太疯狂了，天啊。
So that was like a wild just like, oh my god.
我到底怎么了？
What has happened to me?
但我试着回想一下，我最好的朋友之一，我们已经做了二十年的朋友。
But I'm trying to think one of my best friends, we've been friends for twenty years now.
我记得她很晚才走进我家门。
I remember she walked into my door late.
我当时想，你以为每个人有了孩子都会懂，但其实没人真懂。
And I was like, I think you expect everyone to get it when you have a baby and no one gets it.
然后你突然发现自己得按时间表生活了。
And you're like this made like, all of a sudden, I'm on a schedule.
如果你还没成家，根本不知道按时间表生活是什么感觉，二十分钟迟到，我会想，这跟一年前的我们完全不一样了。
And, like, if you don't know what it's like to be on a schedule because you don't have, like, a family yet, Twenty minutes late, I'm like, this isn't like us a year ago.
这就是现在的我，我得喂奶，奶水在涨，我必须赶紧把奶排出来。
This is me now where, like, my b like, I like, nursing a baby is not just like, oh, you're like, my milk's coming in, and I've gotta get, like, get this out.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
然后宝宝去午睡了。
And then the baby goes on for a nap.
如果这没发生，我一整天连一分钟自己的时间都没有。
And if that doesn't happen, I get not a single minute to my day.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
所以，比如期待见朋友，结果他们迟到了，你就觉得算了。
So, like, looking forward to seeing your friend and then them being late, you're like, it's over.
我们没法聚了。
We can't hang.
然后还有那种紧张感，比如现在，我会说，来吧。
And and then also the nerves of, like, now, I would be like, come.
没事的。
It's all good.
但你是第一次当父母。
But you're it's your first kid.
你是第一次当父母。
Your first kid.
它并没有。
It's didn't
不知道你在做什么。
know what you like were doing.
是的。
Yeah.
你只是紧张。
You're just nervous.
所以我的朋友，抱歉。
So my friend sorry.
故事中的一部分是，我的朋友看着我给婴儿喂奶。
The the the part of the story was that my friend, like, watched me, like, nurse my baby.
我的乳房变得特别大，你知道的，一切都显得笨拙、陌生，各种不适应。
My boobs were, like, huge, and you're you know, it's all, like, clunky and new and whatever.
她给我发了条消息，说：我简直不敢相信认不出你了。
And she text me, and she was like, I don't even it's crazy to not recognize you.
我当时说：天啊。
And I was like oh my god.
我知道。
I know.
后来我心想：你那样说‘我知道你不是故意的’，其实伤了我的心。
And later I was like, you hurt my feelings so But much by saying I know you didn't mean it.
这看起来一定疯狂极了。
Like, it must look insane.
对吧？
Right?
我一边哺乳，一边想着我们一路一起长大，现在却发生了这种疯狂的事。
Like, I'm like nursing a baby and we've, like, grown up together, and now this, like, crazy thing happened.
对她来说，你就像个新人一样。
It feels like you're, like, a new person to her.
而实际上，那一刻你最需要的，就是感觉我们本可以有所改变。
And really, all you probably need at that moment is to feel like We could have, like, changed.
吃个沙拉，聚一聚。
Salad and have a hang.
是的。
Yes.
而且别觉得自己是个局外人，因为你们生活中所有人
And, like, not feel like you're this outsider because everyone in your life
依然在爱着。
is still loving.
听说你刚约过的人，我只想让一切恢复正常，但什么都不正常了。
Hear who you just hooked up with, and I wanted, like, things to be normal, but nothing's normal.
对。
Right.
你能再多分享一点，比如怀孕是如何影响你的身材形象的吗？
Can you also share a little bit more about, like, how your body image was affected by pregnancy?
因为我从来没生过孩子，但我将来真的很想有孩子。我觉得对于女性来说，这太难了，因为你被期望对每个人都要做到完美。
Because I think that's like I have never had a kid, and I do I would love to have kids at one point, but I think for women, it's so hard because it's like you're expected to be everything for everyone.
而且你经历着生活中巨大的变化。
And you go through this, like, extreme change in your life.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后女性还要面对所谓的‘恢复身材’问题。
And women then, it's like the bounce back thing.
那你觉得呢
And what do
你看起来怎么样？
you look like?
你是怎么应对这一切的？
Like, how did you manage all of that?
我不知道。
I don't know.
因为我经历了很多，我记得在生下卢卡四个月后，和我妈妈在墨西哥的某个地方。
Because I dealt with a lot of I I remember being, I think, in Mexico with my mom or something, like, four months after I had Luca.
我们当时住在一个私人住宅里，结果有狗仔队拍到了照片。
And we had, like, a private home there that we were staying at, and a pop paparazzi got a picture.
他们还说：‘希拉里产后身材首秀。’
And they were like, Hillary debuts post baby bod.
我当时就想：宝贝，我根本没打算什么首秀。
And I was like, babe, I'm not debuting anything.
你在我家私人住宅里拍我，那时候我以为自己是在和家人、宝宝团聚，这太可怕了。
You're taking a picture of me at a private house when I think I'm with my family and my baby, and, like, it's horrendous.
所以这真的太离谱了，我觉得情况正在变好。
So that's, like, so messed up, and I feel like it's getting better.
当我生了后面的孩子后，我就只是想：哦，我熟悉这种感觉了。
And as I've had subsequent kids, like, you're just like, oh, I recognize this.
我知道这是什么。
I know what it is.
度过这个阶段很难，但这一切都是短暂的。
It's hard to get through this phase, but it's all, like, it's all fleeting.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我经历得越多，这种事对身体变化带来的压力就越轻，你知道，普通人不需要面对这种噪音，但你比较敏感。
And so the more times I've done it, the less, like, weight it has with with, like, dealing with your body changing and you kind of I don't you know, normal people don't have to, like, have the noise, but you're sensitive.
这真的很难。
It's really hard.
你会永远看起来不一样，你知道的。
You'd look different, you know, forever.
你在喂养孩子，本该知道该怎么做，但实际上你并不确定该怎么做。
You're like feeding a child, and you're supposed to know exactly what to do, and you don't know exactly what to do.
事情并不总如预期般顺利，而那种必须当个天然好妈妈的压力，真的很大，你知道的。
And things don't always work out the way, you know, worse the pressure to feel like a natural mother, like, is is a lot, you know.
你之前提到过，我觉得，刚开始哺乳对你来说很困难。
You had mentioned, I think, that you like, nursing for you in the beginning was difficult.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且，作为女性，如果事情没有像网上或计划中说的那样顺利进行，有时可能会感到羞愧。
And, again, like, as women, if you if it doesn't go exactly as they tell you on the Internet and according to plan, like, sometimes there can be, like, shame around that.
是的。
Like Yeah.
这对你自尊心造成了什么影响？
How did that impact your self esteem?
一想到自己无法成为孩子心目中理想的母亲，我就想哭，毕竟你孕育了他们、生下了他们，他们是你的一切。
I still could cry thinking about, like, just not being able to be you wanna be everything for your kid because you grow them and you birth them and they're yours.
你看到别人在公共场合自然地哺乳孩子的视频，
And you watch, you know, reels of, like, people just nursing their baby in public and it being so natural.
但对我来说，根本不是那样的。
And, like, it just wasn't like that for me.
每次我们都会给泰恩斯称重，但她就是不增重。
And I every time you like, we would, like, weigh this was with Townes mostly, but, like, she wasn't gaining weight.
我几乎全天候都在试图母乳喂养她。
And I'm trying to, like, nurse her literally around the clock.
这是我第四个孩子了。
And that's my fourth kid.
就直接补充配方奶吧。
Like, just supplement.
你到底在做什么？
What are you doing?
你知道的吧？
Like you know?
我当时对这件事特别固执。
And you're just like, I was so stubborn about it.
我只是希望它能成功，但它没有。
I just wanted I wanted it to work out, and it didn't.
然后，你断奶两周后，就会觉得，是的。
And, like, then you're two weeks out of, like, not nursing, and you're like, yes.
这简直是最大的自由了。
This is the best freedom ever.
但在那一刻，你会想，我该怎么应对这种情况？
But in that moment, you're like, how will I ever cope with this?
我为什么就是做不好这件事？
How will I why can't I be good at this?
卢卡，我最久的是喂他。
And, Luca, I nursed him the most.
那时候更容易一些。
It was easier then.
后来，每个孩子我喂的量都越来越少。
And, like, down the line, I just each child got less and less and less.
现在我都觉得，谁在乎呢？
And now I'm like, who cares?
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