杰西·德雷珀：勒索、狂欢派对与伴游

所以我认为这影响了我的决定，虽然这并不意味着这样是对的，但当这一切曝光时，我保护了乔丹。

And so I do think that influenced my decision, not that it was okay, but I protected Jordan when that all came out.

好的。

Okay.

等等。

Wait.

稍等一下。

Hold on.

所以在第一季开拍前你就知道了关于陪侍的事情。

So you find out before season one about the escorts.

是的。

Yeah.

你开始拍摄第一季。

You start filming season one.

没有。

No.

当我们播出第一季时，已经拍完了。

We had filmed season one when it dropped.

我们在纽约。

We were in New York.

当事情公开播出时，我才得知。

And we I found out when it was like live.

第一季刚刚上线。

Season one just came out.

我们在纽约做宣传，那时我才得知。

We're in New York doing press and that's when I found out.

他完全否认了整件事。

And he completely denies the whole thing.

是的。

Yeah.

然后你拿到了证据，他仍然否认。

Then you get proof and he continues to deny it.

我给他看了证据。

I showed him the proof.

他却说：不。

And he was like, no.

他们打算对我们做这种事。

Like, they're gonna they're gonna try to do this to us.

后来发生了马尔恰诺的事情。

Then the Marciano thing happens Two later.

两周后。

Two weeks later.

你为什么要保护他？

Why did you protect him?

因为他否认了，当时我真的相信了他。

Because he denied it and at the time I did believe him.

我当时就想，算了，我只是把头埋在沙子里，不想知道任何事。

Where I was like, you know, like I just I think I was just putting my head in the sand and I was like, don't wanna know anything.

就像，没关系。

Like, it's fine.

我只是真的很想相信他。

Like, I just really just tried to believe him.

然后我真的亲了别人，所以我觉得特别内疚。

And then I did actually kiss someone, so then I felt so guilty.

当这件事曝光时，我就想，我必须承担责任，因为我确实做错了。

And when this came out, like, I just was like, I have to own it because I did something wrong.

我不希望任何人觉得我在试图推卸责任。

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to like deflect.

那你是什么时候开始不再相信他的？

So when do you think you stopped believing him?

我觉得我内心深处一直都知道。

I think I always did believe it deep down.

但后来他对待Marciano事件的反应让我开始怀疑，你知道，人们常说，如果一个人在隐瞒什么，他会反过来指责你更多。

But then after he the way he reacted during the Marciano stuff made me question it because you know how they say if someone else is hiding something, they're gonna accuse you of more.

所以我认为，正是这一点让我意识到：你是不是在隐瞒什么？

So I think that that's what made me realize is I'm like, are you hiding something?

所以你把所有责任都推到我身上了。

So you're like putting it all on me.

好的，我们接下来会谈到Marciano的事情，因为我想详细了解一下，据说他用你的钱支付派对和陪侍费用，你能确认吗？

Okay, we're going to get to the Marciano thing because I want to go through all But of when it is alleged that he was using your money to pay for parties and for escorts, Can you confirm that?

我的意思是，关于陪侍这件事，当时他确实有工作。

I mean, it's hard to say at the time of the escorts, he did work.

所以那可能是他的钱，但结婚后，一切财产都是双方共有的。

So it could have been his, but when you're married, everything's both of yours.

过去三年里，所有的钱都是我的。

As of the last three years, everything has been my money.

他根本不工作，我提供一切开销。

Like he does not work, I provide everything.

所以如果过去三年里发生了什么事，那肯定用的是我的钱。

And so if anything's happened within the last three years, it had been my money for sure.

当这个网站说他支付派对费用时，你认为他支付的是什么样的派对？

And when this site was saying that he was paying for parties, what kind of parties do you think he was paying for?

我只能相信那是狂欢派对，像性派对那样的。

I have to believe they're orgies, like sex parties.

我不知道除了这种派对之外，你还可能会为哪种派对付钱。

I don't know what other kind of parties you would pay for.

你就只是去参加个派对，对吧？

Like you just go to a party, you know?

所以我只能这么认为。

So that's what I have to believe.

我实际上从来没问过他这件事。

I've actually never asked him about this.

我只是听别人说的。

I've just heard about it.

但有趣的是，我是通过我姐姐听说的，她是从一个在现场的人那里听来的，而现在这件事也被报道了。

But the funny thing is I heard through my sister who heard from someone who was there and now it's also being reported.

所以我觉得，这事肯定有些真实性。

So I'm like, clearly there's some truth to it.

你认为爸爸聊天群里的其他人也参与了这些狂欢派对吗？

Do you think any other people in dad talk were participating in these orgies?

我完全不知道。

I have no idea.

我甚至以前都没想过这种可能性。

That's like, I actually haven't even thought about that possibility until now.

我一点头绪都没有。

I have no clue.

我们又回到了 swingers 第一季的情节，但等等。

We're like back to season one of swinging but We're like, wait.

我们曾经

We were

是把事情升级了，你知道的？

like taking it up a notch, know?

你跟那些女人谈过这件事吗？

Have you talked

关于这个，你跟任何女性谈过吗？

to any of the women about this?

我只告诉了梅西和玛凯拉。

I have only told Macy and Makayla.

她们的反应是什么？

What is their response?

她们说，他太恶心了。

They were like, he's disgusting.

公平地说，我生活中的每个人——朋友、家人、员工，都讨厌他。

To be fair, everyone in my life, friends, family, employees, everyone hates him.

比如我离婚时，我告诉的每一个人，他们的反应都是：恭喜。

Like no one when I got divorced, everyone I've told so far it's been like, congratulations.

没有一个人说：我很难过。

Not one person has been like, I'm so sorry.

我本来想说，整个互联网都在说，谢天谢地她终于自由了。

I was gonna say the entire internet is like, thank God she's so free.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Yep.

看到公众对你的离婚不仅反应积极，甚至对你脱离这段关系感到庆幸，这种感觉如何？

How has that felt seeing the public's response be so not only just positive to your divorce, but like grateful that you're removing yourself from this?

这在某种程度上让我感到被认可，因为我想，好吧，我做出了正确的决定，如果每个人都这么想，那一定有原因。

It was validating in a way because I'm like, okay, I made the right decision, you know, like if everyone feels this way, there's gotta be a reason.

因为我有一段时间有点否认现实。

Cause I was a little bit in denial for a while.

我得说，有一部分我确实觉得，他现在在网上被狠狠抨击，我有点于心不忍。

I will say like there is a part of me like he's getting ripped apart online right now and I do feel bad.

人们都在议论他的外貌、性格，说他再也找不到伴侣了。

Like people are like talking about his looks, his personality, he'll never date anyone again.

所以有一部分我觉得，我并不是因为那样才选择在那时和他分手，但事情就是这么凑巧地发生了。

And so like there is a part of me that like, I'm like, oh, I just I I It's not that I chose to break up with him during that because of it, but the line It just lined up that way.

所以我确实感到内疚，但是

So I do feel guilty, but

但你真的觉得他以后再也找不到人约会了吗？

But do you think he actually won't date anyone ever again?

比如，你们分开后的这段时间，他有在和别人约会吗？

Like, has he been seeing anyone since you guys have been separated in the past few

说来有趣，当我离开他的时候，他一直说你肯定又在外面偷腥了，你知道的，因为这唯一他能怪罪我的事。

Well, it's funny because when I left him, he was like trying to be like, you're probably cheating on me again, you know, because that's his only thing he, you know, blames me about.

但我跟他说，不是的，这并不是因为我不爱你了。

But I like, no, this is because I'm not in love with you.

这和别人无关。

This isn't about anyone else.

我只是想一个人待着。

I wanna be alone.

但我认为他一直在和别人联系。

But I do think he's been talking to people.

我通过道听途说听说了这一点。

I've heard that through the grapevine so.

但现在从你的气场就能看出来，你根本不在乎了。

But now you can even see from your energy, you're like, I don't give a fuck.

不。

No.

真的就别理他了。

Literally get Yeah.

自从他提交申请后，你和乔丹还有联系吗？

Away from you been in touch with Jordan since he filed?

所以他给我发了短信，我想是因为他知道新闻在我收到TMZ短信后就要公布了。

So he texted me, I think because he knew the news was gonna be coming out after I got the TMZ text.

他跟我说：顺便说一下，我提交了申请，但我不知道会公开。

And he was like, By the way I filed but I didn't know it was gonna be public.

我当时就说，这真有意思，因为你给了他一份声明。

And I was like, That's funny because you gave him a statement.

你直接发邮件给TMZ，告诉他们该说什么。

You literally emailed TMZ what to say.

于是他说，我是被建议这么做，因为这对我是最好的。

So he was like, Well, I was advised that it was what was best for me.

我只是说，别再跟我讲话了。

And I was just like, Do not talk to me anymore.

我们会通过第三方来处理孩子的事务。

We will handle the kids through a third party.

他有情感虐待的历史。

He has a history of being emotionally abusive.

所以我说，我不想再深入这个话题了。

And so I was like, I'm not gonna get into this.

所以这事到此为止，我们会找别人来处理孩子的事务。

So we're done here and we're gonna handle the kids through someone else.

我听说你换了电话号码，这是真的吗？

Is it true I heard you changed your phone number?

是的。

Yeah.

他根本不知道现在是多少。

He has no clue what it is now.

我保留了旧手机用来和他沟通孩子的事，但他不知道我的新号码。

I have my old phone to communicate with him about the kids, but he doesn't know my new phone number.

从现在开始，我们会彻底分开。

It's gonna be very separate now.

你是怎么决定这是对你来说正确的选择的？

How did you decide that was the right decision for you?

因为他过去一直监视我。

Because he's spied on me in the past.

你想听个有趣的故事吗？

Do you wanna hear a funny story?

请说。

Please.

你认识哈里·贾齐。

You know Harry Jauzy.

是的。

Yes.

所以我们同一天生日。

So we have the same birthday.

所以去年五月，那时候我和乔丹分开了。

So last May, this was when me and Jordan are separated.

我回应了哈里的故事，心想，天啊，真是生日双胞胎。

I responded to Harry's story and I was like, my gosh, birthday twins.

他给我发语音消息，你知道他说话的样子。

He like voice memos me and you know how he talks.

他说什么‘淘气的小猫’之类的。

He's like, you naughty kitten and whatever.

他就像

He's like

他这么说：你这个调皮的小负鼠。

He's like, you naughty little possum.

就是这样。

That's what it was.

他当时说：

He was like,

你这个调皮的小负鼠，生日过得怎么样？

how's your birthday going naughty possum?

我回答说：还不错。

And I was like, good.

你呢？

How's yours?

他说：很棒。

He's like, great.

我要去徒步旅行。

I'm going on a hike.

就这样。

That's it.

好吧。

Okay.

这是个Instagram动态。

This is an Instagram.

我在欧洲。

I'm in Europe.

凌晨四点，我接到约旦的电话。

I get a call at 4AM from Jordan.

他问：你有什么事要告诉我吗？

He's like, do you have to tell me something?

我回他：你什么意思？

And I was like, what do you mean?

他费尽心思。

He went to the lengths.

在我们分开期间，他黑进了我的Instagram，伪造了一个电话号码，把音频发送给自己，然后让这个号码说：伙计，我觉得你应该知道这件事。

He hacked my Instagram while we're separated, created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say, dude, I think you should know about this.

你老婆出轨了。

Your wife's cheating on you.

所以他指控我出轨，哈里·贾齐说那个人是别人。

So he accused me of cheating on him, Harry Jazzy said it was someone else.

后来我才发现那个人就是他。

And then I found out it was him.

事情就这么简单。

And that's all it was.

这些音频听起来非常无辜。

The audios are so innocent.

只是像这样：嘿，你怎么样？

Like it was just like, hey, how are you?

杰西，这太疯狂了。

Jessi, that's insane.

所以我才换了新手机号，因为他以前就干过这种事。

So that's why I got a new phone number because he has done stuff like that.

他跟踪过我。

He's tracked me.

他偷听我家里摄像头的录音。

He's like listened in on my cameras in my house.

所以他干过这种事。

So he's done stuff like that.

所以我不得不做一些让他无法窥探我隐私的事情。

So I was like, I have to like do things where he can't like look through my stuff.

因为我知道是谁

Because I know who

你是怎么发现他在跟踪你的？

I How did you find out he was tracking you?

他能获取我的位置，但只要我一关闭定位，他就特别奇怪。

Well, he like has my location, but he like is very weird if I ever turned it off.

他会问：你为什么关掉了定位？

He's like, why did you turn off your location?

他对这件事简直太反常了。

Like, he's very strange about it.

至于摄像头那些事，简直

And with the cameras and all that, like that is

完全是个安全问题。

like a full safety issue.

是的。

Oh yeah.

在我们分居期间，有几次我打电话时，他会把我的对话一字不差地重复给我听。

Like there were times I was on the phone during our separation that he would like repeat conversations back to me.

他还说：我通过摄像头偷听了。

And he's like, I listened in on the camera.

我就说，哦。

And I'm like, oh.

现在他回家了，把所有摄像头都拔了。

And now that he's at home, he's unplugged all the cameras.

所以我什么都做不了，你知道吧？

So I can't like do anything, you know?

就算我本来也不会这么做，但他真是算计好了。

Like I wouldn't try to anyway, but he's calculated.

你才是那个花钱找援交的人吧。

Like, you're like, you're the one paying for escorts.

你才是那个去狂欢派对的人。

You're the one going to orgy parties.

而他的偏执完全是把问题投射到你身上。

And then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you.

他还能当受害者，你知道吧？

And he gets to be the victim, you know?

你是不是在想，你怎么会想到这种烂事？

And you're like, wait, how do you even think of this shit?

就是因为他自己在做这些事。

It's like, because he's doing it himself.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yep.

你们还住在一起吗？在那栋房子里？

Are you still living together in that house?

不住了。

No.

所以我搬走了，离开的时候我说，我们需要商量一下这房子怎么办。

So I left, when I left I said, you know, we need to figure out what to do with the house.

他却说，你可以住在我买的房子里的客房。

And he was like, well you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for.

我当时就想，我觉得我得搬走了，因为他确实有情感虐待的历史，我们之前也吵过很多次很激烈的架，我也很生气，别误会。

And I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna leave because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive and we've had really bad fights where I've also been really angry, know, don't get me wrong.

我当时就想，我觉得我们现在不适合住在一起。

And I was like, I don't think it's good for us to live together right now.

所以我又住进酒店了，过去一周半我都是住在那里。

So I'm at a hotel again and that's where I've been for the last week and a half.

但是杰西，为什么每次都是你得离开家？你才是唯一的经济支柱啊。

But Jessi, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider?

是的。

Yeah.

那房子是你付的钱，那本来就是你的房子。

You paid for that house, like that's your house.

我有条短信，他说：‘你想要这房子，那你走吧。’

I mean, I have a text where he's like, you wanted this so you can leave.

他是在逼我走，但同时又说：‘如果你想的话，可以住客房，但我跟他在一个屋檐下住着感觉不舒服。'

Like he's making me, but also he's like, well you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want but I don't feel right about living there with him.

如果我在家，他可能会监视我。

Also, could spy on me if I'm at the house.

他可能装了我不知道的摄像头。

He could have cameras that I don't know about.

所以我需要一些空间和距离，我打算卖掉房子，我们各自搬去自己的地方。

So I'm kind of like, I need to have that space and distance, but I'm gonna sell the house and we're gonna each get our own place.

孩子们现在怎么样？

How are the kids doing?

他们还不知道。

They don't know yet.

他在我之前泄露了这件事，这真是令人难过，我完全不知道他们是怎么想的。

So that's the sad part about him leaking this before I did is I have no idea what they're thinking.

我不确定他是不是在我外出的时候告诉了他们，却没有告诉我。

I don't know if he told them while I'm out of town without telling me.

他们还小，一个六岁，一个三岁。

They're young, they're six and three.

所以他们会没事的。

So they'll be okay.

你有通过FaceTime联系过他们吗？

You've been able to like FaceTime?

是的，我今天早上和他们视频了，挺有趣的，因为我正在和我儿子贾格尔说话，乔丹却在旁边对他大喊大叫，我就说：乔丹，别这样。

Yeah, I FaceTimed them this morning and it was funny because I was talking to Jagger, my son and Jordan was like kind of like snapping at him and I was like Jordan don't do that.

然后他说：别跟我说话。

And he goes, don't talk to me.

我就想：好吧，看来事情就要这样发展了。

And I was like, okay, so that's how this is gonna be.

所以目前我和乔丹之间关系有点紧张，但孩子们会好好的。

So it's kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment but the kids are gonna be fine.

那孩子们现在是和乔丹一起住在房子里，而你住在酒店吗？

And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you're in the hotel?

是的，我试过几次，有时候我会说：嘿，我要带他们走。

Yeah, I've tried, I've seen them a little bit where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna take them.

他说，不能把孩子们带去酒店过夜。

And he's like, well, can't take them overnight in a hotel.

所以他想控制我，但我已经咨询过律师了，我们打算达成五五监护权协议。

So he's trying to control me, but I've been to a lawyer and we're gonna do a fifty fifty custody agreement.

但这些孩子从出生起就一直由我抚养。

But I've provided for those kids their whole lives.

他们想要妈妈。

Like they want their mom.

他们知道谁是他们的妈妈。

Like they know who their mom is.

我知道自己是个好父母。

And I know I'm a good parent.

我知道他会试图让我感到内疚，说我不是个好妈妈。

I know he's gonna try to mom shame me.

这会是他的惯用手段。

That's gonna be his MO.

但我知道我的孩子们会好好的。

But I know my kids are gonna be just fine.

你已经准备好了。

You're ready.

是的。

Yes.

你刚才说了这么多，我知道我们在电视上也看到过很多，但我也知道还有很多我们没看到的，因为嘉宾这么多，而你的生活能展现出来的部分有限。

There's so much you just said, and I know there's so much we've seen also on television, but I also know there's a lot that we haven't seen because there's so many cast members and there's only so much of your life that can be shown.

所以我确实想回头聊聊你和乔丹的关系，因为我想最终谈到你告诉他你想离婚时的情景，以及他的反应。

So I do kinda wanna go back and talk about your relationship because I wanna eventually get to how you confronted him that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was.

我们会谈到所有这些的。

We're gonna get into all that.

但首先，让我们回顾一下你和乔丹最初的日子，你们刚开始时的关系是怎样的？

But first let's just unpack like when you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days?

那时候很好。

It was good.

我们认识得非常快。

We met very quickly.

说实话，我把我们的关系模式归因于这一点，因为我之前结过婚。

I blame our dynamic on that honestly, because I had been married before.

所以这是我第二次离婚，而且我已经分开了。

So this is my second divorce and I separated.

为了说明背景，我是在九月和第一任丈夫分居的，然后在三月就结婚了。

So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September and I got married in March.

所以进展真的很快。

So it was really quick.

我想我当时向他寻求情感支持。

I think I leaned on him for emotional support.

他当时也在经历分手，我也是，所以我们自然而然地产生了共鸣。

He was going through a breakup, so was I, and we just kind of connected and clicked.

而且我觉得我在第一段婚姻中也受到了很糟糕的对待，现在回头看看，我觉得这已经成了一种模式。

And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well, which now looking back I'm like, this is a pattern.

我陷入这种状况是因为我缺乏自信，有很多问题，但他一直支持我。

Like I get into these situations because I'm self conscious and I have issues, but he was there for me.

所以我觉得我就直接一头扎进去了。

So I think I just dove right in.

不过第一年还不错。

The first year was fine though.

那么你会说第一年你们没怎么吵架吗？

So would you say that first year you weren't arguing that much?

没有，是的，那段时间挺好的。

No, yeah, it was pretty good.

但回头想想，他其实一直挺控制欲强的。

But I actually think that looking back, like he's always been pretty controlling.

而当时我只是很高兴能摆脱上一段婚姻。

And I think at the time I was just like happy to be out of my last marriage.

我们刚有了儿子。

We had just had our son.

我当时就像活在自己的泡泡里，然后才开始注意到一些模式。

Like I was just kind of in a bubble and then I started to notice patterns.

你们俩之间通常是什么事情会引发争吵？

What would typically set off an argument between the two of you?

他的控制欲。

His control.

我感觉我在生活的方方面面都被控制了，而他总说：‘我没法控制你。’

I felt controlled in every aspect of my life and he used to try to say, oh, I can't control you.

你是无法被控制的。

You're not able to be controlled.

我试着去接受，但我做不到，因为我很独立。

I try and I can't cause I'm independent.

在那些早期的日子里，现在回头看看，你觉得哪些事情其实是完全被控制的，只是当时没意识到？

In those early days, what do you look back and be like, oh, that was fully controlled and maybe I didn't see it at the time?

天啊。

Oh my God.

我的意思是，他试图控制我生活的方方面面，包括我的生意，以及我该如何经营生意。

I mean, it's just he tries to control every aspect of my life, my business, how I should run my business.

他会用母亲的身份来羞辱我，告诉我该怎么育儿，但他自己却从不这么做。

He would mom shame me and like tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself.

比如我如果把冰箱门忘关了，你知道那种‘哔’的声音，我就会被他大吼一顿。

Like if I left the fridge door open, you know like that beep that happens, I'd get yelled at.

所以直到今天，每当我听到冰箱的‘哔’声，我的身体就会立刻进入应激状态。

So to this day, when I hear like a beep of the fridge, I'm like, like my body goes into fight or flight.

就是这些看似微不足道的小事，累积起来影响巨大。

Like it's just little things like that that add up.

但还有，比如我想和朋友去吃晚饭，他就会问：‘你晚上会回家吗？’

But also like, I like if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, like it was like, well, are you gonna be home?

你打算

What are

做什么？

you doing?

你在哪里？

Where are you?

就像一直这样。

Like just constant.

争吵开始的时候有什么规律吗？

And was there any patterns when the arguments would start?

你回过头来看，觉得是什么？

Like, what do you look back on?

我觉得我们的关系变得很糟糕，就是因为我很爱表达、很独立。

I think that's why our relationship got to a pretty bad place is because I'm pretty like vocal and independent.

所以头一两年，我只是想，好吧，我觉得乔丹想要一个顺从的人。

So for the first year or two, I was just like, okay, and I think Jordan wants someone submissive.

所以一开始我有点那样。

So I was kinda like that in the beginning.

然后情况逐渐变得让我无法忍受。

And then it started to get to this place where I'm no.

我会反抗。

And I would fight back.

于是情况变得非常糟糕，因为我反抗了，这让他更糟。

And so then it was just like really bad because I'm fighting back and that makes it worse for him.

所以我们俩就一直争吵不休。

And so we're just like going at it.

他有没有特别喜欢在言语上批评你的地方？

Are there any things that he would like verbally criticize you for?

所有事情，所有事情。

Everything, everything.

我记得在我们还没进入公众视野之前去接受治疗时，曾说：‘你能不能少批评我一点？’

I remember being in therapy before we were like in the public eye and being like, I need you to criticize me less.

几乎是90%的批评，只有10%的赞美。

It's like 90% criticism and 10 compliments.

我做的每一件事——无论是经营我的事业、育儿、时间管理、打扫卫生，甚至每一件小事，比如我怎么穿衣打扮，诸如此类的事情。

Anything I did, like how I ran my business, how I parented, my time management, how I cleaned the house, like every little thing, even like how I would like dress and like, you know, things like that.

他会怎么评论你的穿着呢？

Like what would he say about how you dress?

哦，这条裙子有点短，你真要穿这个吗？

Oh, that skirt's a little short, are you gonna wear that?

就是类似这样的事情。

Like, you know, like just stuff like that.

所以我就感觉我一直在被不停地指责。

So it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on.

我要说，在去年我们分开之前，也就是在马西阿诺事件之后，他告诉我，我希望你每天都要做普拉提。

I will say there was right before we separated last year before, after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day.

他跟我说了之后，又说我觉得传统性别角色很重要，我想更像个男人，也希望你更像个女人。

Like he told me that and then he said, I think I believe in traditional gender roles and I want to be more in my masculine and I want you to be more in your feminine.

所以就连这种领域他也想控制。

And I was like so like just control in areas like that as well.

我当时就想，你知道你娶的是谁吗？

And I was like, do you know who you're married to?

这简直太倒退了，而且我也觉得，他居然还对你有身体上的要求，真是疯了。

That is like so fucking backwards and also like I'm also just like how how crazy for him to also, like, physically expect you to Yeah.

每天都要做普拉提。

Do Pilates every single day.

是的。

Yeah.

成为家庭经济支柱。

Be the breadwinner.

照顾孩子。

Take care of the children.

照顾他。

Take care of him.

是的。

Yeah.

当他自己都达不到这些标准时，却对你有如此不切实际的期待。

There's such an unrealistic expectation when he's not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard.

但公平地说，他根本不工作，我们还请了一名全职保姆。

And to be fair also, he doesn't work and we had a full time nanny.

所以他直到晚上才帮忙照看孩子。

So like he wasn't even helping with the kids until nighttime.

在你们的关系中，他有没有什么事希望得到你的认可？

Was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我觉得每件事都是这样。

I feel like everything.

感觉我每做一件事都得先跟乔丹商量。

Like it felt like I couldn't make a move without talking to Jordan about it.

我得征求他的建议、他的意见，但问题是，我其实也不愿意向他倾诉，因为他从来不会以一种理性的方式帮我去感觉更好、给我建议。

Know, like I had to get his advice, his opinion, like, but the thing is I never wanted to confide in him either because he's not someone that is like, yes, let me help you feel better and give you advice in a logical way.

他总是在给我建议的同时贬低我，扮演反方角色，告诉我我哪里做错了。

It's always putting me down while he's giving me advice and playing devil's advocate but telling me what I did wrong.

他怎么会向你解释这一点，或者试图怎么解释呢？

And how would he justify that to you or try to

他就说，我就是懂这些。

He's like, I just know things.

我觉得我自己在这些方面真的很聪明。

Like I'm really like, I'm smart in these areas.

你应该听我的。

Like you should listen to me.

看看你犯过的所有错误。

Like look at all the mistakes you've made.

看看你失去的所有朋友。

Look at all the friends you've lost.

你得听我的。

You need to listen to me.

所以是的。

So yeah.

而我现在说出来这一点

And that now that I'm saying

把这些话大声说出来，感觉真奇怪。

these out loud, this is weird.

不，不，一点也不奇怪。首先，不要觉得尴尬、羞愧或难为情。

No, no, It's not It's First of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed.

想想看，有这么多女性都有同感。

Like, think so many women relate to this.

我之所以感到不适，是因为这些男人对女性表现出的那种自以为是。

It's more I'm cringing at him because of, the self righteousness that these men have over women.

当你说，你在家的时候。

When, again, it's like, you're home.

你是家庭的经济支柱。

You're the breadwinner.

你是那个在外面工作的人。

You're the one that's working.

你才是那个和妈妈聊天的人。

You're the one that was on mom talk.

我们会说到爸爸的话题的，别担心。

We we'll get to dad talk, don't worry.

是的。

Yeah.

不过你能解释一下吗？你们之间的冲突到底是什么样子的？

Can you explain though, like, what did a conflict like actually look like between the two of you?

你待在家里，经历着这样的动态，比如，

You're in the house, you're going through this dynamic, like,

那是什么感觉？

what was that like?

过去五年，我们每天都吵架。

The last five years we have not we've fought every single day.

每天都吵。

Every single day.

想象一下，和你最应该信任的伴侣一起身处这样的境地。

Like imagine being in that with your partner who you're supposed to like trust the most.

我认为最糟糕的情况，也是我去年和他分开的原因，就是这次关于普拉提的争执。

I would say the worst it got and actually why I separated from him last year is because this was the Pilates, conversation.

事情发展到他用Marciano的短信威胁我，那些短信还保存在他手机的TikTok草稿里。

It got to a point where he was blackmailing me with the Marciano texts and he had them on a draft on his phone on TikTok.

每当我惹他生气，他就说：我要把它们发出去。

And anytime he was mad at me, he's like, I'm going to post them.

我要毁了你的生活。

I'm to ruin your life.

所以我们因为普拉提的事情吵架，他却说：我要发那些TikTok视频。

So we were fighting over this Pilates stuff and he was like, I'm to post the TikToks.

于是我过去想拿走他的手机。

And so I went to go grab his phone.

我说：乔丹，不行。

Was like, Jordan, no.

到这个时候，没人知道我做过什么。

Like at this point, no one knew about what I had done.

我当时就说，你要毁了我的生活，还有我的生意。

And I was like, you're gonna ruin my life, like, Ola, my business too.

我雇了50个人，这可能会毁掉一切。

Like I employ 50 people, like this could ruin everything.

他却说，好吧。

And he goes, so he's like, okay.

我当时快疯了。

And I'm freaking out.

所以我拼命想抢他的手机。

So I'm like trying to get his phone.

我追着他，想把手机拿回来。

I'm like kind of chasing him trying to get it.

他掏出手机，开始录我，还说，你想干什么？

He pulls out his phone, starts recording me and he's like, what are you gonna do?

你打算怎么办？

What are you gonna do?

你会不会说，泰勒，我该报警吗？

Are you gonna be like, Taylor, should I call the cops?

我当时就说，哇。

And I was like, woah.

因为他和达科塔是朋友，所以显然会听到这类事情。

Because he's friends with Dakota so he's like hearing things like that obviously.

所以他是在引诱我，还故意说，哦，哦，你这是在干什么？

And so he's baiting me and he's trying to be like, oh, oh, what are you doing?

那一刻，我对自己说，我到底在干什么？

And that was the moment where for me I was like, what am I doing?

我正在追着我丈夫跑，想抢回他的手机，以免他威胁我。

I am chasing around my husband trying to get his phone so he doesn't blackmail me.

这并不健康。

This is not healthy.

我那天就真的离开他了。

And I literally left him the day.

我当时就想，这种情况不能再继续了。

I was like, this can't happen anymore.

我的理解是，他得知那件事后决定继续和你住在一起，你简直就像在家里成了囚徒。

I mean, you're like a complete prisoner in your own home where you're like, from what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information.

是的。

Yes.

他根本没有一刻停止过。

There was not even a second where he like didn't.

所以是的。

So yeah.

然后他继续用这些信息来勒索你，进一步控制你在这段关系中的行为，是的。

And then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the relationship Yes.

你知道这个循环会继续，因为你总会因为自己做过的事而感到内疚。

Knowing that this cycle is gonna continue because you're gonna feel like shit because you do feel guilty about what you did.

是的。

Yeah.

而且现在你知道了，你其实早就知道那些陪侍的存在，但他却完全对你进行精神操控，让你相信那些人根本不存在，而我们现在知道事实恰恰相反。

Also, now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn't exist when now we know that actually was the case.

是的。

Yeah.

而且他是第一个在婚姻中出轨的人。

And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage.

没错。

Yep.

然后你，我不是说你做的事是对的。

And then you I'm not saying what you did was okay.

对。

No.

但你还是亲了那个男人两次。

But you kiss this man twice.

你没有和他发生关系。

You do not sleep with him.

而这个人随后威胁你，让你害怕自己的事业和声誉受损。

And this man is then blackmailing you into just fearing for your career and your reputation.

这太可怕了。

That's horrible.

是的。

It is.

我不该那样做。

And like, I shouldn't have done

我做的那些事。

what I did.

我非常后悔。

I regret it so much.

我只是想明确说明这一点。

I just wanna make that so clear.

比如，我的孩子们有一天不得不听到这些事，我必须完全承担责任。

Like, for my kids to like have to hear about that one day, I want to take full responsibility.

当然。

Of course.

我要说，你的伴侣以这种方式威胁你，这是我永远无法释怀的事。

I will say that like having your partner blackmail you in that way, it was something I could never get over.

即使我们复合后接受了治疗，你最爱的、本该最关心你的人，即使你伤害了他们，也不该让你陷入这种境地——让你时刻如履薄冰，永远不确定自己的生活会不会被毁掉，而他们却握有这种掌控你的权力。

Even after we got back together and went through therapy, like the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them should never put you in a situation where you feel like inside you never, like you're walking on eggshells and you never know if your life's about to be ruined and they have that power over you.

所以，这确实是真正毁掉我们关系的事情。

So that was honestly like something that really ruined us.

而且，这确实让人深受创伤。

And yeah, it was it was traumatizing.

这确实令人创伤，而且非常病态，因为他从中获得快感，是的。

It's traumatizing and it's really sick because it's like he's getting off Yeah.

享受看着你不得不依附于他，是的。

On enjoying watching you have to be beholden to him Yeah.

控制欲。

The control.

完全如此。

Completely.

当你从最初的日子回望到现在，显然你能清楚地看出，这段关系是如何从‘这或许不是最好的关系’演变为‘这是情感虐待’的。

When you look back at from beginning days to then, obviously, now you can see, like, the clear delineation between, like, whether it was, like, oh, this is not the best relationship to, like, this is emotional abuse.

是的。

Yeah.

当那些激烈的争吵刚开始时，你有没有觉得这可能只是普通情侣的正常矛盾？

Did it feel in the beginning when those really big fights started, okay, maybe this is just like normal relationship struggles?

还是从一开始，你就立刻意识到这很不健康？

Or from the beginning, you start to immediately be like, this is unhealthy.

我该怎么离开？

How do I get out?

我的第一次婚姻比这段更严重，情感虐待程度更甚。

So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive, like worse than this one.

我再次结婚得太快了，根本没有时间从那段经历中恢复。

And I, again, got married so quickly that I didn't have time to heal from that.

所以我认为我无意识地又被同样类型的人吸引了。

So I think I attracted the same type of person without realizing.

在我的脑海里，我一直在为他开脱，想着：不，乔丹把我从上一段婚姻中拯救了出来。

And I think in my head I was justifying it because I'm like, No, Jordan saved me from my other marriage.

他是我的救世主。

He's my savior.

我就是这么看待他的。

That's how I saw him.

他把我从那种关系模式中解救了出来。

He saved me from this dynamic.

所以不可能是他这样对我。

So there's no way he's doing this to me.

但随着时间推移，我过去关系中见过的那些相同模式又出现了，我当时就想：哦。

And then over time, like same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship, like arise and I was like, oh.

但我从未对任何人说过出口。

But I had never said out loud to anyone.

我的朋友和家人都是知道的。

My friends and family were aware.

他们知道他对我不好，没人喜欢他，他们都会跟我提起，但我只是淡淡地说，那就是Jordan啊。

They knew that he didn't treat me well, no one liked him, they would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like, that's Jordan.

但在第四季，你看到了我的能量疗愈师。

But then in season four, you see my energy healer.

实际上，我正和她做疗愈疗程，那晚正好就是那次普拉提争吵的同一晚。

She actually, I was doing a session with her and this was the same night of that Pilates fight actually.

我坐下来，她问我：‘你安全吗？’

And I sat down and she goes, are you safe?

我问：‘你什么意思？’

And I was like, what do you mean?

她说：‘我只是有种感觉，觉得必须问你一下。’

She goes, just have a feeling I need to ask you.

我向她倾诉了一切，那是我第一次把这件事说出口。

And I told her everything and it was the first time I said it out loud.

就在那一刻，我也意识到，我必须离开他。

And that was like the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him.

这就是为什么我们去年分开了。

And that's why we separated last year.

因为当我亲口说出来时，她对我说：‘杰西，这是情感虐待。’

Because I'm like, as I'm saying out loud, goes, Jessi, this is emotional abuse.

我之前从没想过，直到那一刻才恍然大悟。

And I never like, it didn't click to me until in that moment.

你把这件事说出口后，情况有什么变化？

How did it change for you after you said it out loud?

感觉像卸下了一副重担，仿佛有什么东西突然清晰了，我第一次真正看清了这一切。

It was like a weight had fallen off where I was like, and it was almost like something clicked and I was like seeing it clearly for the first time.

我当时只是觉得，‘这就是乔丹的个性罢了。’

And I was like, oh, I just kind of like was like, that's Jordan's personality.

婚姻很难，确实如此，但这就是我为自己开脱的方式。

Marriage is hard, which it is, but that's how I justified it.

但当有人明确告诉我，这是情感虐待时，

But when she literally, I had someone saying this is emotional abuse.

于是我开始向朋友和家人倾诉，他们都说：Jessi，这不正常。

Then And I started opening up to my friends and family and they were like, Jessi, this isn't normal.

感觉就像玻璃突然碎裂了一样。

It felt like the glass had shattered.

而且，我也想对正在经历这一切的女性说一句：很多人可能会想，天啊，这有模式可循吗？

Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it's like so many people can be like, oh my God, is there a pattern?

你第一次婚姻经历过这个，现在是第二次了。

Like you went through this in your first marriage and this is second.

当然有模式，因为要摆脱它太难了，它让你感到熟悉。

It's like, of course there's a pattern because it's so hard to break out of, it's familiar.

你已经习惯了这种状态。

It's something that you get used to.

你就像被击垮了一样，坐在那里，自我价值感荡然无存，对自己一点好感都没有。

It's like you've been beaten down and you're sitting there and your self worth is depleted and you're not feeling good about yourself.

于是你遇到了像乔丹这样的人，情感虐待并不是从第一天就开始的。

So then you find someone like a Jordan who like emotional abuse does not just start day one.

不是的。

No.

这是一种非常非常疯狂、令人困惑、伪装得很好的东西，你根本无法捉摸。

It's like it is this very, very crazy, like, confusing, masked thing that you can't it's not tangible.

不是的。

No.

你根本看不到它。

You you can't see it.

而且是的。

And Yeah.

所以这是一种心理上的操控。

And so it's psychological.

当这种心理影响如此根深蒂固时，你内心深处也会有一种声音认同：也许我不够好，也许我正在经历的正是我应得的。

And when it's so embedded psychologically, there is also something within you that is willing to be like, but maybe I am not worthy and this is maybe what I am going through.

所以，也许我活该这样，或者这很正常。

And so like, maybe I deserve this or maybe this is normal.

因为如果你从小只见过这样的关系，我不太了解你的成长背景，但你生活中有没有见过健康爱情的榜样呢？

Because if you've only lived seeing that and like, I don't know much about your upbringing, but like, did you have like a good representation of, you know, love in your life?

是的。

Yeah.

我有最好的家庭。

Have the best family.

好吧。

Okay.

所以最不可思议的是，我的父母、我的姐妹们，简直是世界上最棒的家庭，顺便说一句，我姐妹们都很喜欢你。

So that's what's crazy is like my parents, my sisters, like best family in the world, which by the way my sisters love you.

而且她们特别兴奋，但我得说，不，我真有最好的家庭。

And like, they're so excited, I But love no, I have the best family.

我觉得这源于童年时的创伤，比如觉得在朋友面前不够好之类的。

I think it was like childhood wounds of like not feeling good enough with other friends and things like that.

然后我陷入了一些让我本来就觉得自己不够好的境地。

And then I got into things where I didn't feel good enough already.

接着我又进入了那种情况，情况变得更糟了十倍。

And then I got into that and it was like 10 times worse.

你说得对，这让人感到熟悉。

And you're right, it's familiar.

所以我无意识地寻找了同样的人，因为那是我习惯的模式。

So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it's what I was used to.

那句名言虽然很老，但确实道出了真相：你接受的是你认为自己配得上的爱。

And that quote is so like old, but it's so true of like you accept the love you think you deserve.

这正是发生在我身上的事。

And that's what happened to me.

我觉得是第三季的时候，我记得看到你姐妹们坐在地上时，特别为你和你的家人感到难过。

I think it was season three, I remember just feeling so bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground.

你妈妈在场，我能看出来，你妈妈根本一点都不惊讶。

Your mom was there, and you were like, I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked.

她其实希望我们真的能结束这段关系。

And she like was like hoping we would really just end it.

那是在你们即将进入九十天冷静期的时候。

It was when you guys were about to go into the ninety day break.

你妹妹说，你已经很久不是Jessi了。

And your sister was like, you haven't been Jessi for so long.

这像是对你的一种呐喊，但你也看得出她非常清醒——她无法帮你走出来，但她希望你知道，她依然记得那个没有被虐待之前的你。

And it was like this outcry to you, but also you could tell she was so aware, like, she couldn't get to you, but she wanted you to know that, like, she still remembered who you were without this abuse.

她知道你总有一天会找回真正的自己。

And she knew you were gonna come back to yourself one day.

只有你自己能救自己。

And it takes you being No one can get you out of it

但是的。

but Yeah.

我自己，我很高兴你提到这一点，因为我觉得在这段关系中，我已经失去了自我。

Yourself, I'm so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I've been a shell of myself in this relationship.

我以前经常跟乔丹这么说。

And I used to tell that to Jordan.

他却说，这不对。

He's like, that's not true.

你有权利过属于自己的生活。

You have every right to make your own life.

而我说，伴侣对你的影响太大了。

And I'm like, your partner affects you so much.

他们能影响你生活的方方面面，包括你的幸福。

They can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness.

我确实迷失了自己。

And I did lose myself.

我最亲近的人都看出来了。

And the people closest to me saw that.

是的

Yeah.

你能谈谈在这段情感虐待的关系中，你和乔丹之间维持了怎样的浪漫联系吗？

Can you, talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection that you and Jordan were able to maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship?

我们的性生活还不错，因为

So our sex life was pretty good for a

我又没真正意识到发生了什么。

while because again, I hadn't really realized what was going on.

我只是在逃避。

I was just kind of hiding it.

但我要说，自从我们分开了又复合后，我的身体已经告诉我了。

But I will say since the separation and getting back together, my body has told me.

我想让处于这种情况的女性知道，你的身体会告诉你真相。

I want women in this situation to know that your body will tell you.

每次你试图和我发生关系时，我的身体都会紧缩。

Like anytime you tried to have sex with me, would clam up.

事后我会出现恐慌发作。

I would have panic attacks after.

事后我会哭。

I would cry after.

我不希望他碰我。

I didn't want him to touch me.

即使他只是在房子里经过时，轻轻抓了我的手臂什么的，我都会说：别碰我。

Like even if he was just like passing me like in the house and like grabbed my arm or whatever, was like, Don't touch me.

我会对他说这些，而他却问：你怎么了？

And I would say that to him and he's like, what's wrong with you?

但你的身体是知道的。

But your body knows.

所以我只想对任何处于这种境况的人——无论男女——说，每个人都会在某个时候经历，不是每个人，但确实有人经历过。

So I just want like anyone in this situation, men or women, like everyone goes through it at some point, not everyone, but people have gone through it.

听从你的身体，它知道真相。

Listen, your body knows.

就像那本书，《身体会记住创伤》。

Like that book, Your Body Keeps the Score.

当然。

Of course.

我的身体其实整整一年都在试图告诉我。

My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year.

对。

Right.

我们并不安全。

Like we're not safe.

是的。

Yeah.

当然，当你和一个让你感到不安全的人在一起时，你不可能放松和享受。

Of course, you can't relax and enjoy yourself Yep.

在亲密的环境中，和一个让你感到不安全的人在一起。

In an intimate setting with someone that you don't feel safe with.

是的。

Yeah.

我还记得，当我们看到你们事业和MomTok的成功季时，那真是一个高光时刻。

I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons on the success of your business and MomTok.

乔丹最终辞掉了工作，以便能帮忙照顾孩子，并且有更多时间拍摄。

Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and that so he could film more.

最初，你们在让他辞职这件事上达成一致了吗？

Initially, were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job?

是的。

Yes.

因为他辞职的时候，我们刚有了女儿。

Because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter.

当时她还是个新生儿，我们还有一个学步的孩子，而他当时经常出差。

So she was a newborn, we had our toddler as well and he was traveling for work.

他那时在德克萨斯、加利福尼亚，到处跑。

So he was in Texas, California, like all over the place.

我当时就想，我怎么可能一边经营生意，一边拍这个节目，还要抚养两个孩子。

And I was like, I can't run a business, start to film this show and raise two kids.

所以我确实提出了这个建议。

So I did initiate that.

我说，你需要找点别的事情做，但我当时确实说了，你需要在这里找点事做。

I was like, I need you to like but I did say, I need you to find something here.

我以为他还是会继续上班的。

I thought he was still gonna work.

但他直接理解成我要他辞职了。

He just took that as I'm gonna quit.

那时候我赚得还不错。

And we were I was making good money.

所以他其实没必要再工作了。

So like he didn't need to work.

但回头想想，我觉得我本该让他多帮着带带孩子。

But looking back, I'm like, should have like had him help out with the kids more though.