Terrible, Thanks for Asking

但这真的太搞笑了。

It's so it's so funny though.

这太好笑了，因为显然每个人应对失去的方式都不同。

It's so funny because obviously, everybody copes with everybody copes with their loss differently.

而我们显然通过讲一些非常阴暗的故事来应对，而加洛的幽默是真实的。

And we obviously cope with it by telling very morbid stories and the Gallo's humor is real.

我不知道你怎么能大规模地教别人这一点。

I don't know how you how you teach that to people at scale.

比如，嘿，你的生活会很难的。

Like, hey, your life is going to be hard.

你还不如趁还能笑的时候好好笑最后一场，因为一切终将崩塌。

You might as well you might as well have like one good last laugh about it because everything is going to fall apart.

你得想办法把它规模化并实现盈利。

You gotta figure out how to scale it and monetize it.

对。

Right.

把它规模化并实现盈利。

Scale it and monetize it.

那将会是Instagram。

That'll be the Instagram.

就像是，喂。

It's like, hello.

大型灾难版Instagram。

Big disasters Instagram.

请关注我们。

Like, please follow us.

没错。

Please.

是这样的。

It's yeah.

我也不知道，因为我从小天主教长大，他们什么都没教我。

I I don't know either because I grew up Catholic sort of, and they didn't teach me anything.

他们什么都没教我。

Like, they taught me nothing.

没有冒犯的意思，妈妈，也不针对任何正在听的天主教徒，但我觉得……

No no offense, mom, and any Catholics who are listening, but, like, that I'm

是你妈妈那边的。

on your mom's side.

他们教了你很多。

They taught you everything.

明白吗？

Okay?

你只是没用心听。

You just were not paying attention.

说实话，我记得我曾经对一个和我一起上小学的朋友说，我的意思是，我都不记得我们在学校打开过圣经。

I honestly to be honest, I remember I said to one of my friends who went to grade school with me, I was like, I mean, I don't even think we opened a bible in school.

她却说：‘当然打开过，笨蛋。’

And she was like, yes, we did, idiot.

你就是没认真听。

You just weren't paying attention.

我当时就想，哦，好吧，我从来没打开过圣经。

I'm like, oh, well, I never opened a bible.

所以是的。

So Yeah.

我站在你妈妈这边。

I'm on your mom's side here.

我想那天我生病了。

I guess I was sick that day.

对。

Yeah.

但关于教导苦难，这很好。

But that's very good about teaching suffering.

明白吗？

Okay?

你没有专心注意。

You were not paying attention.

那里

There

是的。

yeah.

我想我只是没有专心注意。

I think I just wasn't paying attention.

我只是没有专心注意，但这件事的很大一部分在于。

I just wasn't paying attention, but there is a huge part of this.

我之前提到过，你知道，你们的人力资源政策是什么，而显然这只适用于领薪水的员工。

I mentioned earlier, you know, what your HR HR policy is, and that obviously only applies if you are a salaried employee.

但我的意思是，如果你是自雇人士或按小时计酬，会发生什么？这会带来很多后果。

But, I mean, what happens if you are self employed or if you're hourly or there's so many repercussions.

我和我朋友一起创办了‘年轻寡妇俱乐部’，那是我做的另一件事。

And my friend who started the Hot Young Widows Club with me, which is a different thing that I do.

太喜欢了。

Love this.

有太多太多事情在发生，但这些都赚不到钱。

Lot of lot of stuff lot of stuff that doesn't make me money going on.

但我们有一个叫‘热恋寡妇俱乐部’的团体，Moe 她是做头发的。

But we have this group called the Hot Young Widows Club, and Moe is like, she does hair.

她丈夫是自杀去世的，两天后她就继续剪头发了，因为如果不剪头发，她就没收入。

And her husband died by suicide, and two days later, she was cutting hair because if she doesn't cut hair, she doesn't get paid.

如果不赚钱，谁来付房贷？

And if she doesn't get paid, who pays the mortgage?

嗯。

Mhmm.

悲伤的现实就是，有太多人带着创伤四处奔波，却无法处理这种情绪，也得不到心理健康支持。

And, like, that is the reality of grief is that so many people are walking around traumatized and without a way to process it and without access to mental health care.

即使费用能负担得起，你又会在什么时候去呢？

And even if it were affordable, like, when would you go?

如果你是一个独身父母，工作安排极其繁重，根本无法在上午十一点去城另一边预约，那你什么时候才能去呢？

When would you go if you are an only parent and your work schedule is grueling and you can't get in for an appointment at 11AM across town?

所以这太复杂了，你经历得越多，就越会意识到，原来有这么多原因让我们长期受伤。

So it's so complicated, and the more you experience it, the more you realize, like, oh, there are so many reasons why so many of us are so hurt for so long.

这不仅仅是没洗脸、没振作起来、没走出来这么简单。

And it's not just that we have not, like, washed our face and pulled our bootstraps up and gotten over it.

而是因为在这背后存在着巨大而沉重的障碍。

It's that there are big, big barriers to to this.

我们已经不再拥有那种真正能深深支持你、托住你的社区了。

And we do not have any more, like, a real like, sort of sense of of a real community that will really, really, really hold you up.

这种支持是非常非常罕见的。

Like, that is that is a very, very, very rare thing.

这番话来自一个中产阶级的白人女性，住在中西部，我甚至不得不搬回去和我妈一起住。

And this is coming from, like, a middle class white lady in the Midwest who, like, I got to move back in with my mom.

这种选择对我而言是可行的，但并不是每个人都有这样的条件。

That was made available to me and that is not available for everybody.

所以我其实有个成年人能帮我，但我妈妈也沉浸在悲痛中，我非常爱她。

And so I basically had I did have another grown up to help me, but my mom was also grief stricken, and I love her so much.

但她能做的也实在有限。

And she there was only so much she could do too.

这真的太难了。

It's just a lot.

所以如果你经历过非常艰难的事情，然后你心里想：唉。

And so if you are a person who has gone through something really difficult and you're like, ugh.

为什么我就是没法做得更好呢？

Why am I not doing better at this?

因为这很难。

Because it's hard.

因为这很难。

Because it's hard.

有时候，困难的事就是困难，也许会有转机，但找到它并不是你的责任。

And sometimes hard things are just hard, and maybe there's a silver lining, but it's not your job to find it.

你现在最不需要做的，就是急着去找到阳光明媚的那一侧街道。

That's not like your number one priority right now is to, like, get to the sunny side of the street.

你现在要做的，只是在这场暴雨中坚持住。

It's to just, like, hold on through this monsoon.

抓住一些坚实的东西，不管是什么，熬过去就行。

Like, grab onto something solid, whatever you can, and get through it.

如果你身边有个人经历了巨大的苦难，也要坚持住，因为这会持续很久，他们还没好起来。

And if you are a person who is adjacent to a person who's gone through something really difficult, like, hold on too because it is going to be a while, and they are not fine.

哦，这会持续很久的。

Oh, it's it's going to be a while.

这可能会伴随你的一生。

It's probably going to be your your whole life.

我觉得，你知道，就是这种感觉。

I think, you know, there's just this Yeah.

就是这么一种观念，我觉得在美国尤其明显。

There's just this idea, and it's I think in America, it's so specific.

你被要求要迅速从困境中走出来的方式。

This way that you're supposed to just get over stuff really quickly.

当你走出来后，人们期望你总能找到积极的一面。

And when you get over it, it's supposed to be you're supposed to always find a silver lining.

你总会给出某种胜利式的叙述。

There's some sort of like victorious narrative that you give.

你知道，比如你战胜了癌症，走出了悲伤，我们总是被塑造成某种斗士。

You know, like you cancer, you get over your grief, you we're always just like warriors for something.

然后你再婚。

And You remarry.

呃，真是烦人。

Like, ugh.

天啊。

God.

这实在太糟糕了。

It's It's so awful.

这真的太糟糕了。

It's just it's so awful.

就像，你知道的，也许我们该学会与痛苦共处一段时间。

It's like, you know, maybe we should learn to sit with suffering a little bit.

就像，你该学会只是静静地陪着它。

Like, you should learn to just sit with it.

我们很多人如果正在听这个播客，可能比世界上其他正在受苦的人拥有更多的特权。

A lot of us are it's like if you're listening to this on a podcast, you probably have a lot more privilege than other people who are suffering around the world.

当然，我不是想把这变成一场特权竞赛。

You know, not to make this some sort of like privilege Olympics.

但我确实认为痛苦会带来。

But I do think that suffering gives

但就像，我赢了。

But like I win.

我确实赢了。

I do win.

赢得金牌。

Get the gold.

所以我不知道该怎么告诉你这件事。

So I don't know how to tell you this.

我赢了。

I win.

我赢了。

I win.

如果我们玩这个游戏的话。

If we're playing if we're playing this game.

或者说，我输了，所以你赢了。

Or rather like I lose, so you win.

你说得对。

You're right.

但你知道我的意思吗？

But you know what I mean?

直面痛苦就像坐着与痛苦共处，我不是说这很好，但它能让你对发生在你世界里、发生在整个世界中的事情多一些洞察。

It's like sitting with sitting with suffering is, I'm not saying that it's good, but it gives you a little bit of perspective about what is going on in, like what is going on in your world, and what is going on in the world.

我希望这种品质和美德是我们从小被教导的，你知道吗？

I wish that that's something that was a value and a virtue that we were taught, you know?

就是得接受现实：事情真的很艰难，你必须学会成为一个坚韧的人。

It's to just be like, okay, things are really hard, and you're gonna have to learn to be a resilient person.

你必须学会成为一个理解痛苦、对痛苦富有同理心的人。

You're going to have to learn to be somebody who understands suffering, who is empathetic to it.

但相反，我们学到的只是在糟糕的感觉一出现时就立刻压抑它。

And instead, all we're taught is to is to shut down the terrible feeling as soon as it happens.

就好像你被要求迅速翻篇一样。

It's like you're supposed to move on very quickly.

而这种做法本身也是一种病态。

And and that's its own sickness.

这也加剧了人们对一切事物普遍的不安感。

And that also contributes to this just this general unease about everything.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

而且你应该试着去读一下芭芭拉·艾伦瑞克的《积极思考的陷阱》？

And that you should try to, have you read Bright Sided by Barbara Ehrenreich?

没有。

No.

我应该读吗？

Should I?

我是不是该再把另一本‘You’系列的书加到我的书单里？

It's Should I should I add another You book to the

你应该读。

should.

你真的应该读。

You should.

这本书太棒了。

It's so good.

她在被诊断出乳腺癌后写了这本书，当时她几乎被各种积极思考和类似的语言淹没，这些语言与癌症诊断紧密相关。

And she wrote it after her breast cancer diagnosis when she's basically inundated with, you know, positive thinking and and and and all of that language that is definitely very, very tied to to a cancer diagnosis.

但作为人，我们的本能是试图为别人解决问题，但并非所有事情都能解决，你也无法解决所有问题。

But as people, our reflex is to try to fix it for somebody, and not everything is fixable, and it is also not in your ability to fix everything.

因此，陪伴他人承受痛苦，通常意味着面对自己的不安，并努力抑制那种急于说‘我懂你的感受’或‘你试过这个吗？’的冲动。

And so sitting with someone else's discomfort is usually sitting with your own discomfort and trying to override that reflex to say, I know what you mean, or to say, have you done this?

或者急于填补沉默的空档。

Or to sort of, like, rush to fill a silence.

我知道我们的犹太兄弟姐妹有一种名为‘守丧期’（Shiva）的哀悼传统，你们会安静地陪伴丧亲者，他们想说话时才说话。

And I know our, Jewish brothers and sisters have a a grief tradition called Shiva, and you sit quietly with the bereaved, and they talk if they want to talk.

你们会谈论他们想谈的任何话题。

And you talk about whatever they want to talk about.

我确信我简化了这一点，但仅仅陪伴他人、让他们主导谈话节奏的理念非常有力，这并不只适用于亲人离世，也适用于正在经历离婚、或努力备孕却受挫的朋友。

And I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it, but the idea of just being present for somebody and letting them set the tone for it is really powerful, and it it does not have to just be limited to somebody's death, but to, I mean, to a friend who is going through a divorce, to a friend who is struggling to conceive.

生活中有太多方式会让人狠狠摔一跤。

There are so many ways for life to kick you in the neck.

你会感到惊讶的。

You would be surprised.

你不会感到惊讶。

You won't be surprised.

这永远不会停止。

It will never stop.

但你需要的不是有人试图为你解决问题，而是需要有人与你一同承受痛苦。

But what you need is not for somebody to try to fix it for you, but you do need you need somebody there in the suffering with you.

任何人都能在你快乐时陪伴你。

Anybody can be with you in your happiness.

这在友谊中是非常轻松的事。

That is a very light lift as far as friendship goes.

所以，我现在社交圈的样子和Aaron在世时已经大不相同了。

So I have a social circle that looks way different now than it did when Aaron was alive.

完全不同，这让我很长时间都很难受。

Like, very different, and that hurt me for a long time.

我现在意识到，那其中一部分是我自己造成的。

And I now see, like, a part of that was me.

那部分是因为我无法告诉别人我有多痛苦，以及我需要他们做什么，因为我真的不知道。

A part of that was that I just could not say to people how much it hurt and and what I needed from them because I really didn't know.

我不知道该如何不坚强，因为我一直是个能挺过一切的人。

And I didn't know how to not be okay because I was a person who could get through anything.

在Aaron生病的三年里，我一直在照顾他、照顾一切，努力不成为别人眼中的悲惨故事。

And I had spent three years of Aaron being sick just taking care of it and taking care of him and trying not to be somebody's sad story.

没人想要你的同情。

Nobody wants your pity.

如果你得到过同情，你就知道那很糟糕。

And if you've gotten pity, you know it's gross.

那真的很糟糕。

It is gross.

同情恰恰是共情的反面。

Like, pity is the opposite of empathy.

很容易对某人感到同情，但要与某人感同身受却更难。

And it is very easy to feel bad for somebody, and it's harder to feel with somebody.

我的天。

I mean, whoo.

这让我感触良多。

This is making me feel a lot of things.

我觉得，你知道，你说得对。

I think, you know, I think that you're right.

我认为，这其中的核心矛盾，尤其是在朋友经历这种事的时候，尤其当我们还年轻无知的时候。

The central tension, I think, that is there, especially for, like, for friends that are going through this kind of stuff, especially when we're all young and dumb.

那也是，你知道的，那也是事实。

That's also, you know, that's also like True.

那也是我们故事的一部分，因为我们当时才二十多岁、三十出头。

Part That's also part of our stories, is that we're like 20 and 30.

朋友之间的情况真的很真实，因为很多人只想解决问题。

And the thing with friends is so real because, like, a lot of people just want to fix things.

你一旦表达出任何不适或不开心，他们的第一反应就是试图解决问题。

The minute that you voice some sort of discomfort or you're unhappy, their tendency is to fix things.

当有人去世的时候，你知道，根本无从下手去修复什么。

And the thing when, you know, when somebody dies, you can't there's nothing to fix.

我们只能坐在这里，忍受这种极度的不适和悲伤。

Like, we're just gonna have to sit here and be very uncomfortable and be very upset about it.

真的什么都做不了。

There is truly nothing to fix.

最糟糕的事情已经发生了。

Like, the worst has happened.

而且，顺便说一下，回到你之前提到的那本积极向上的书，我会把它加到我的阅读清单里。

And, you know, and also just to go back to that thing that you, you know, that you were talking about with the with the bright sided book, and the which I'm gonna put on my list.

但真正让我深思的是，这种积极思维叙事令人反感的地方在于，其潜台词是：只要你遇到任何坏事，都是你自己的错。

But that it it really made me think about is that part of what is so gross about this, like, positive thinking narrative is that the underbelly of it is saying that, like, whenever anything bad happens to you, that it's your fault.

叮。

Ding.

叮。

Ding.

叮。

Ding.

如果你觉得光靠积极思考解决不了这一切，而你又只知道这一套，那简直就是胡说八道。

Like, if you can't think your way out of all of it, and that is all you know, I was like, talk about, like, just, like, bullshit.

这还会加剧别人对你的同情。

And that adds more to like, you know, to the pity that you feel from other people.

这还会让你在经历不适时，更觉得自己表达需求和愿望是种不足。

It adds more to your like inadequacy about voicing your own needs and your wants when you are going through something uncomfortable.

这一切都太恶心了。

And it's all so gross.

真的太恶心了。

It's so gross.

告诉别人，比如有人即将去世、生病，甚至关系破裂，说他们应该积极面对，这实在太恶心了。

It is so gross to tell people that, you know, they're like someone dying, or they're like being ill, or even like a relationship failing.

这并不是你的错。

It's like it's not your fault.

生活就是这样发生的。

It's like life happens.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

这些并不是例外情况。

And these are the these are not, exceptions to the rule.

这些才是常态，即你认识的每一个人终将死去，你认识的每一个人终将受苦，而你也不例外。

Like, these are the rule, which is that every single person you know is going to die, and every single person you know is going to suffer, and so will you.

我们无法选择它何时发生或如何发生。

And we do not get to choose when it happens or how it happens.

否则，我肯定会选择更轻松一些的方式。

Otherwise, I would have chosen much lighter things for sure.

我会选择。

I would choose.

我懒。

I'm lazy.

我会想，嗯，也许我会失去一根手指。

I would have been like, I guess I would lose maybe a finger.

你就像说，这就是我能为这件事做出的贡献。

You're like, that's what I can con that's what I can contribute to the cause.

真的只是一根手指？

Really a finger?

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得我太虚荣了，舍不得失去一根手指。

I'm like too vain to lose a finger, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

也许不是。

Maybe not.

也许连一根手指都不用。

Maybe not even a finger.

也许只是耳朵的一部分，因为我可以把头发披下来遮住。

Maybe like part of an ear, because I could wear my hair down.

这根本不是这么回事。

That's Not how even.

我

I

我会弄个小秃斑，然后用头发遮住。

would do like a tiny bald spot maybe that I could cover up.

我付不起秃斑的代价。

I can't afford a bald spot.

我做不到。

I can't.

也许吧。

Maybe.

我有的是那种特别细的婴儿毛，秃斑基本上就会覆盖我整个头。

I've got I've got real, like, fine, like, baby hair bald spot would basically just be my whole head.

你可以。

You can

戴顶假发。

wear a wig.

你可以戴顶假发。

You can wear a wig.

你知道的，每个人都有

It's you know, everybody has

他们的，这倒是真的。

their That's true.

他们已经陷入了自身的痛苦之中。

They've gotten so their own suffering.

你觉得你的大脑有多少精力是花在思考死亡上的？

How much how much of your brain do you think, like, brainpower is spent, like, thinking about death?

我的意思是，这种想法常常在背景中存在，但说实话，并不是一种阴暗的方式。

I mean, it's kind of, like, always there in the background, but honestly, not in a morbid way.

我觉得，为了探讨一些陈词滥调，这里不妨引用一个老生常谈。

I do think that to explore some cliches here that Love a cliche.

告诉我吧。

Tell me.

爱一个，就像，

Love a Like,

我对死亡的恐惧已经完全消失了。

my fear of death is really, is gone.

我完全不害怕死亡。

I I do not fear dying at all.

我亲眼看着我父亲去世。

I watched my dad die.

我亲眼看着亚伦去世。

I watched Aaron die.

我经历了真正醒悟的时刻，你知道，如果这是部电影，镜头会聚焦在我的瞳孔上，而里面仿佛映着整个宇宙。

And, like, I just had real, like, realization moments where, you know, if it were a movie, like, you would you would zoom in on my pupil, and, like, inside would be the whole universe.

那一刻，我真的明白了。

And I would like, I just get it.

我心想，天啊。

I'm like, oh my god.

一切都变得清晰了。

It all makes sense.

然后，一切就结束了。

And then it's over.

事情就是这么快发生，如此强烈。

That's how fast it happened and how intense it was.

我当时想，哦，我没事。

And I was like, oh, I'm okay.

他没事。

He's okay.

我们都没事。

We're okay.

然后，你知道，明显的，震惊慢慢消退，之后你就会感到痛苦。

And then, you know, obviously, the shock the shock wears off, and then you do feel pain.

但很长一段时间里，在那短暂的瞬间，我想，我明白了。

But for for a long time but for that brief moment, I was like, I get it.

就像，我明白了。

Like, I get it.

我不再害怕死亡。

And I'm no longer afraid of dying.

我不再害怕了，而我生来就害怕死亡。

I'm no longer afraid of and I was born afraid of dying.

我当时

I was

我只是也一样。

just Me too.

小时候，我整天就想着这个。

It's all I thought about as a kid.

我所有的行为都被对死亡的恐惧所驱动。

My every action was driven by how afraid I was of dying.

现在我觉得，我不在乎了。

And now I'm like, I don't care.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我想，你知道吗？

And I'm like, you know what?

会没事的。

It'll be fine.

我得说，我仍然害怕遭受痛苦。

I'm I'm still afraid of suffering, I have to say.

你知道，我正在看着埃琳缓慢地死于脑癌。

You know, I'm watching Erin die slowly of brain cancer.

我想，如果我得了脑癌，我会搬到有安乐死法律的州，然后在我觉得该结束的时候自己决定。

I thought if I have brain cancer, I will move to a state that has right to die legislation, and I will decide when I'm when I'm done doing this.

因为那不是一种好的死亡。

Because it was it's it's not a good death.

那不是一种平静的死亡。

It's not a peaceful death.

那是种暴力、可怕的死亡，这是我一直在思考的事情。

It's a violent, horrible death, and that is something that I think about all the time.

我内心的一部分始终意识到，我所爱的人可能面临的痛苦，但我并不害怕自己的死亡。

A part of me is always aware of that, of the potential for suffering among the people that I love, but I'm not afraid of my own death.

我知道，真正难以承受的是那些活下来的人。

I know that, really, death is hard for the people who survive it.

也就是说，真正受伤害的是这些人。

Like, that's who that's who it's hard on.

我希望养育的孩子不会害怕没有我或没有他们爸爸之后的生活。

And I do wanna raise kids who are not afraid of what will become of them without me or without their dad.

我有一个孩子，你知道，他的爸爸已经去世了，我们确实每天都会谈到亚伦。

And I have one kid, you know, who who has a who has a dead dad, And that is something that we honestly, we talk about Aaron every day.

所以我认为这对所有孩子都有帮助。

And so I do think that that's that's helpful for all of the kids.

你知道，大一点的孩子虽然从未见过亚伦，但他们了解他。

You know, the big kids, they never met Aaron, obviously, but they know him.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们知道我讲过的关于他高中时期的故事。

Like, they know stories about him from high school that I've told.

他们知道他最喜欢的颜色。

They know his favorite color.

他们能告诉你，他以前怎么逗我，而我现在也这么做。

They can tell you the ways that he used to make fun of me that I really miss, and now they do.

所以我希望，对他们来说，这能带来某种安慰——谈论某人的死亡并不需要那么沉重，谈论一个逝去的人也不需要如此悲伤，因为那个你深爱的、已经离世的人，远不止是他们的死亡，远不止是他们离世的方式。

And so I hope that that is a comfort to them in some way that talking about somebody's death does not need to be, you know, morose and does not need to be or talking about a dead person, I should say, because the the person you love who is dead is so much more than their death, is so much more than the way that they died.

我想告诉你们，埃琳本会创办《每周一谈》。

And I want to be able to tell you that Erin would have started Who Weekly.

别介意啊，鲍比和林赛。

No offense, Bobby and Lindsay.

我想能跟你们聊聊我们的婚礼，而你们不会一脸‘天啊’的表情。

I want to be able to tell you about, you know, our wedding without you being like, oh god.

真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

哦，她什么时候才能不谈这个了？

Oh, like, when will she stop talking about this?

我是说，我也想听听你妈妈的事。

Like, I want then I wanna be able to hear about your mom.

我想创造的就是这样的世界，我想养育的就是这样的孩子。

Like, that's that's the kind of that's the kind of world I want, and that's the kind of kids I wanna raise.

我希望拉尔夫能说，哦，是的。

I want Ralph to be able to say, like, oh, yeah.

你知道，我的一个爸爸去世了。

You know, one of my dads is dead.

我的一个爸爸的实际身高比他驾照上写的要矮。

One of my dads is shorter than his driver's license says.

诺拉，没必要在这档播客里公开家事。

No need to air out family business on this podcast, Nora.

你有没有理想中的葬礼安排？

Do you do you have an ideal scenario for what you want your funeral to be?

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

首先，我得给听众再推荐一本书。

So first of all, I do oh, I have another book recommendation for the audience.

你读过《从这里到永恒》吗？

Have you read From Here to Eternity?

没有。

No.

谢谢你告诉整个听众说我从不读书。

Thank you for telling the entire audience that I don't read books.

谢谢你来我的节目，让我显得很无知。

Thank you for coming on my show and making me found.

你简直就是个文盲。

You are the most Like an illiterate person.

我认识的最有学问的人，真的，除了我已故的父亲。

The most well read person that I've ever met, truly, besides my dead dad.

但你知道，他只读白人死人的书。

But, you know, he only read dead white people.

所以，他真的算很有学问吗？

So was he even that well read?

我不知道。

I don't know.

下一期《谈论逝者》将继续上演家庭闹剧。

More family drama on the next episode of talking shit about dead people.

但这本书是来自洛杉矶的一名殡葬师凯特琳·多尔蒂写的，她倡导自然葬礼，并反对各种死亡产业的做法。

But it's a book by Caitlin Doughty, who's a mortician in LA and advocates for natural burial and, you know, against all of the the sort of, like, death industry stuff.

这本书真的很美，我当时心想：天啊。

And it was really beautiful, and I was like, oh my god.

世界上有那么多美丽的葬礼仪式，但我确实想选择火化。

There's just so much beautiful ritual from around the world, but I do wanna be cremated.

我希望有我各个生命阶段的真人大小剪影，供人们拍照或事后摆放在家中。

I would like life-sized cutouts of myself from various life phases that that can be around for people to pose with slash keep in their homes afterward.

这个主意其实是亚伦提出的，但我们没能实现，我对此感到很遗憾。

That was an idea that was actually Aaron's, but we couldn't pull it off, which I feel bad about.

对不起，亚伦。

Sorry, Aaron.

我非常喜欢亚伦的葬礼，我们准备了他最爱的甜点，而且我得说，酒喝得有点多。

And I loved Aaron's funeral, and we had his favorite desserts, and we had too much alcohol, I will say.

而且是在晚上举行的。

And it was at night.

那就像一个晚间活动，我们放了音乐，也有人发言。

It was like an evening evening event, and we had music, and we had people talk.

那就是我想要的。

That that's what I want.

我希望有一些仪式，但基督教传统中确实没有什么葬礼形式能真正打动我。

I want there to be some ritual, although nothing there's really nothing from the Christian tradition that that really resonates with me funeral wise.

所以我还需要做一些葬礼安排。

So I still have some funeral planning to do.

这真是个很好的提醒。

So that's a good reminder.

好的。

Okay.

我们来好好规划一下

Let's let's work on

我们的。

our Yeah.

我们来规划一下我们的葬礼事宜。

Let's work on our funeral planning.

我整天就想着这个。

It's all I think about.

我不太在意我的生日，我最害怕的噩梦就是有人给我办惊喜生日派对。

I don't I'm like not big into my birthday, and I don't like like my my nightmare my nightmare, my actual nightmare is somebody throwing me a surprise birthday party.

天哪。

Like Oh my god.

是的。

Yes.

有一次，差点就发生了。

It one time, it almost happened.

有个人差点给我办了个派对，然后我特别亲近的朋友都跟我说：‘阿米娜会讨厌这个的。’

Like, this person almost threw a party, and then my very close friends were like, you're they're like, Amina will hate this.

她没明白。

She didn't get it.

她是个新朋友。

She was a newish friend.

她没明白。

She didn't get it.

最后他们不得不告诉我，让我去跟她说清楚。

And then finally they had to tell me, so I would break it to her.

我对她说：听着，你不能给我办这个派对。

I was like, listen, you cannot throw this party for me.

所有这些都说明，我的梦想是活着的时候举办一场惊喜葬礼。

All of this to say that, like, my dream is a surprise funeral while I'm alive.

因为我现在就说出来，好让正在听的朋友们真正记住这一点。

Because, I'm saying it now so that so that my friends who are listening will really take this to heart.

在未来三十年里的某个时候，我真的很希望举办这场派对。

Sometime in the next three decades, I would really appreciate this party.

因为你知道，关键是这样一件事吗？

Because the thing it's you know?

我超爱这个。

I love that.

我经常在节目中吹嘘自己从不害怕错过什么（FOMO）。

I brag all of the time on the show about how I don't have FOMO.

事实上，我唯一会感到害怕错过的事情，就是我自己的葬礼，因为那听起来就像我噩梦般的派对场景。

And the truth is that the only thing I have I will ever have FOMO about is my own funeral because that sounds like my it's like a it's like my nightmare scenario of a party.

我生命中各个阶段的所有朋友，聚在一起，无人监督地谈论我，我可不觉得这可行。

All of my friends from, like, all of the parts of my life, like, meeting unsupervised and talking about me, I don't think so.

这简直太疯狂了。

That's that's bananas.

所以，我如此痴迷于葬礼规划，其实说到底就是这个原因。

And so so I think all of my obsession with funeral planning is really that.

我当时就想，你跟我一样是个强迫症混蛋，连这种事的每一个细节都规划得明明白白，然后

I was like, you're an anal retentive asshole like me, and you plan out, like, every single part of this, then

哦，这太聪明了。

Oh, that's so smart.

简直就像你真的在现场一样。

Almost like you're there.

这主意太棒了。

It's so smart.

我认识一个人，他们生前就参加了自己的追悼会，我觉得这真的很温馨。

I I knew of a person who did attend like, had a pre funeral that they attended, and I thought that was really sweet.

天啊，这真是个绝妙的主意。

God, that's such a good idea.

这真是个好主意。

That's a really good idea.

是的。

Yeah.

你无法参加自己的葬礼。

You don't get to attend your own funeral.

说实话，如果你曾经和家人一起策划过葬礼，你就会想，这真的是那个人想要的吗？

And honestly, you know, a lot of the stuff that happens if you've ever planned a funeral with a family, you're like, are I mean, is this what the person wanted?

我希望是的。

I hope it is.

我不确定。

I don't know.

然后你做一些事情，心里想着，我觉得他一定会讨厌这个。

And then you're doing things that you're like, I think they would really hate this.

但这么多安排其实都是为了活着的人，这有点荒谬。

But so much of it is for the living people, and that's kind of BS.

所以我知道。

So I know.

就是为了活着的人。

Like is for the living people.

而且，你知道，我觉得我还没办过婚礼。

And also, know, like, I'm like, I have not had a wedding.

所以，我不清楚那种大家给你送礼物、为你敬酒的感觉是什么样的。

So, like, I don't know what it's like to just have people buy you gifts and toast you.

所以我觉得，我这辈子最接近那种场景的，大概就是我自己的盛大葬礼了。

So I think that the closest I will get to that is my own amazing funeral.

我希望知道那些悼词都说了些什么。

And I'd like to know I'd like to know what the speeches are.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

我同意。

Oh, I agree.

我也觉得，作为社会，我们或许应该更多地推广婚礼之外的礼品登记制度，尤其是现在很多人都晚婚，那时他们早就自己买好了餐具之类的了。

I also do think that we, as a society, should probably, like, more embrace registries for things beyond just a wedding, especially because so many people are getting married later when they already have the resources to buy their own GD dishes.

我知道。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

我受邀参加了一个非常富有的人再婚的婚礼。

I was invited to like a very to like somebody who was getting remarried, also who was like very wealthy.

我简直不敢相信他们的礼品登记清单上居然有冰淇淋碗，我还特意告诉了他们。

And I couldn't believe that they had ice cream dishes on their registry, and I let them know about it.

对不起啊。

Like, I'm sorry.

你不该要求这种东西。

You're not allowed to ask for this.

这太荒谬了。

That is ridiculous.

这是第二次了，你很有钱。

This is the second You have a lot of money.

是的。

Yeah.

我没有婚礼登记清单。

I didn't have a wedding register.

我觉得我和亚伦第一次在亚马逊上登记时，他把电子游戏列了上去。

I think the first time Aaron and I had one on Amazon, and he put video games on

哦，这太聪明了。

it Oh, that's genius.

不要鞋子。

No shoes.

这太聪明了。

That's genius.

这确实太聪明了。

That's actually genius.

你应该要你想要的东西。

You should ask for what you want.

但我同意你的看法，即在这场寻找答案的拼图中，有一小部分是庆祝那些并非只是你被期望拥有的平凡成就，比如婚礼。

But I do agree with you that, like, a small part of this figuring out this puzzle is celebrating things that are not just like your the dumb accomplishments that you're supposed to have like weddings.

就像，总要强调结婚并不是一项成就。

Like, always say that getting married is not an accomplishment.

这真的不是什么成就。

It is not an accomplishment.

订婚也不是。

Neither is getting engaged.

没错。

No.

这很好。

And that's very nice.

完全同意。

Completely agree.

这真的很棒。

It's very nice.

但我觉得，如果我们能把庆祝和哀悼——无论是大事还是小事——变成生活中正常的一部分，并把一切都放在正确的语境中，你知道吗？

But I think that if we made it a normal part of life to celebrate and to grieve like big and small things and to put everything into context, you know?

我希望看到婚礼那样的热情也能投入到葬礼中，投入到帮助生病的朋友，或者面对严重诊断的人，以及正在经历离婚的人身上。

I wanna see wedding like energy go into funerals and go into, you know, like helping your friends who are ill or dealing with people who are, you know, like facing a really bad diagnosis or people who are going through divorces.

让我们把这种同样的热情延续到所有这些人生重要时刻中。

Let's keep that same energy throughout all of these life milestones.

这样，当生活真正发生变故时，我们就不会让别人感到糟糕。

And then we don't make people feel like shit when life actually happens.

死亡是生活的一部分。

Death is a normal part of life.

离婚也是生活的一部分。

Like, divorce is a normal part of life.

这一切都是正常的。

This is all normal.

而且，别把这混为一谈

And, you know, not to conflate

失去工作。

Losing a job.

失业，你知道有多少人给我发消息，说他们失业了，觉得自己是个失败者，生活完了。

Losing a do you know how many people message me and they're like, I lost a job and I feel like a loser and, like, my life is over.

谈谈登记清单吧。

Talk about a registry.

欢迎。

Welcome.

我们应该为这样的人设立登记清单。

That's who we should have registries for.

比如，那些被裁员的人。

Like, people getting laid off from jobs.

你认真的吗？

Like, are you serious?

没错。

Exactly.

就是这样。

Exact okay.

这也是个好主意。

This is also a good idea.

让我们把所有这些很棒的想法都收藏起来。

So let's let's bookmark all these really great ideas.

我们将来可以把这一切都变现。

Let's monetize all of this in the future.

这一切听起来都那么可怕和令人恐惧，但这不正是生活的本质吗？

It all sounds so scary and terrifying, but isn't this like what life is made of?

比如，以前的人们也是这样，先生孩子，然后再慢慢摸索。

Like, people were doing this before us, just like having kids and then figuring it out later.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

而且，我爸爸一直大力主张不要试图规划你的人生。

And also, my dad was a huge advocate for not trying to plan out your life.

他非常反感别人说类似‘我们还没到那个阶段’这样的话。

And he was very much, annoyed by people saying things like, oh, like, you know, we're not we're just not quite at that stage yet.

他会问，你觉得你什么时候才会准备好做任何事呢？

He's like, when do you think you'll be at a stage when you're ready to do anything?

你就是得去行动。

Like, you just have to do stuff.

他还创造了一句非常鼓舞人心的话：没人关心你打算做什么，别再说了，去做吧。

He also coined the very uplifting phrase, nobody gives a shit about what you were going to do, so stop talking and do it.

天哪。

Oh my god.

这句话今天早上治好了我的抑郁。

That that cured my depression this morning.

没错。

Right.

根本没人在乎。

It's like, no one gives a shit.

哦，你本来打算做点什么？

Like, oh, you were going to do something?

不。

No.

就去干吧。

Just do the thing.

我觉得这确实很有帮助。

And I do think that did come in handy.

我嫁给亚伦的时候，他正患有脑瘤。

I married Aaron when he had a brain tumor.

他脑部手术后一个月，我们就结婚了。

A month after his brain surgery, we were married.

当时疤痕还结着痂，我们就结婚了。

Like, the scar was still crusty, and we got married.

然后，我无意中怀上了马修。

And I, you know, accidentally got pregnant with Matthew.

抱歉，孩子们。

Sorry, kids.

当我们全家一起听这期节目时。

As we listened to this episode as a family.

你知道，那时候是该生孩子了吗？

You know, was it was it the time to have a baby?

结果呢，谁在乎呢？

Turns out, like, who cares?

就像，不管最后一切是否顺利，反正就这样了。

Like, and that that is it it all it all works out or it doesn't.

我不知道。

I don't know.

敬请期待

Just stay tuned for

更多《活出人生》。

more Live your life.

鼓舞人心的。

Inspirational.

好好生活吧。

Just live your life.

是的。

Yes.

就是好好生活吧。

Like Just live your life.

你根本无法规划这一切，我绝对不可能在百万年内通过互联网找到马修，当时我对自己下一段关系的期待根本不是这样，我也不会找到亚伦。

You literally cannot plan it, and I would never in a million years have found Matthew on the Internet with what I thought I wanted out of another relationship, I would not have found Aaron either.

我当时想，我可不想和任何做广告的人约会。

I was like, I don't wanna date any guy who works in advertising.

我本人就在做广告。

I work in advertising.

真恶心。

Gross.

所有做广告行业的男人都不适合我。

All the guys who work in advertising are are not for me.

如果我当初按照某个在我经历这些事情之前就制定好的随意计划行事，天知道我会在哪里？

If I would have gone according to, like, some arbitrary plan that was obviously created before I had experienced any of these things, like, who knows where where I would be?

我还会一直想，要是当初呢？

And I would still be thinking like, oh, what if?

要是当初呢？

What if?

你知道吗？

Well, you know what?

幸运的是，我们不必问自己‘要是当初’，因为你真的去做了。

Good thing we don't have to ask ourselves what if because you did the damn thing.

而且另一点是，我们正在做的任何事都不是永久的。

And the other thing too is, like, nothing that we are doing is permanent.

对吧？

Right?

所以，你开始给你女朋友打电话。

So, like, you you start call your girlfriend.

这太棒了。

That's wonderful.

比如，在任何时候，你、安和吉娜都可以说，好的。

Like, at any point, like, you you and Anne and and Gina could be like, yeah.

我们可以停下来。

Like, we can stop.

这并不意味着你现在就签了协议，必须永远经营一个小企业。

Like, it's not as if this is now you have signed on to always have a small business.

永远。

Always.

你现在就是小企业主了，就这么定了。

Like, now you are small business people, period.

就这样。

That is it.

你永远不允许做其他任何事情。

You are never allowed to do anything else.

所以，这种压力无处不在，要求某件事必须对你来说意义重大，并且永远如此。

So, like, there's there's all this pressure that something has to be everything to you and be everything to you forever.

而我们所做大多数事情其实并没有那么重要。

And, like, most of the things that we are doing are not that high stakes.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

比如

Like

这太有道理了。

That makes so much sense.

你总可以降低生活中所有事情的优先级。

You can always lower the stakes for everything in life.

你可以。

You can.

就像，你可以的。

Like, you can.

当我刚开始做 Still Kickin' 时，我注册成了有限责任公司，因为那是我在网上找到的最简单的形式。

It's like I when I started Still Kickin', I it was an LLC because that was the easiest form I could find on the Internet.

然后我把钱捐了出去，我的会计师说：‘哦，报税季到了。’

Then I gave the money away, and my accountant was like, oh, tax time.

钱去哪儿了？

Where's the money?

我当时说：‘哦，我捐出去了。’

And I was like, oh, I gave it away.

你到底看不看文件啊？

Like, do you even read?

这可不是什么好生意。

And that's not a good business.

这是非营利组织，傻瓜。

That's a nonprofit, idiot.

所以

So

快速转型。

quick pivot.

太棒了。

Love it.

快速转型，之后又花了很多钱，但我们总算搞定了。

Quick pivot and and a lot of money later, but we figured it out.

你可以随着你生活中所做的事情一起成长和改变。

Like, you can grow and change with the thing that you are doing with your life.

生活就是不断成长和变化，而不是非要等到你什么都知道了才开始，否则你永远都不会有所行动。

Like, life is growing and changing and not just waiting until you know everything to start something because then you will never do anything.

真是个绝妙的结尾。

What a what a note to end on.

《没有幸福结局》已经发布了。

No Happy Endings is out.

尽管我今天没有读过诺拉提到的其他任何书，但我读过《没有幸福结局》，这本书非常精彩。

And even though I've read no other books that Nora has talked about today, I have read No Happy Endings, and it is delightful.

谢谢。

Thank you.

哎呀。

Ugh.

这对我来说意义重大。

That means a lot to me.

哎呀。

Ugh.

她是最棒的。

She's the best.

网上见啦，宝贝。

See you on the Internet, boo boo.

网上见。

See you on the Internet.

你可以在网上很多地方找到我们，我们的网站是 callyourgirlfriend.com。

You can find us many places on the Internet on our website, callyourgirlfriend.com.

你可以在任何你听喜欢的播客的地方下载本节目，或者在 Apple 播客上下载，我们非常希望你能给我们留下评价。

You can download the show anywhere you listen to your faves or on Apple Podcasts where we would love it if you left us a review.

你可以通过邮箱 callyrgf@gmail.com 联系我们。

You can email us at callyrgf@gmail.com.

我们在 Instagram、Twitter 和 Facebook 上的账号都是 call y r g f。

We're on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at call y r g f.

你甚至可以给我们拨打一个简短甜蜜的语音留言，号码是 (714) 681-2943。

You can even leave us a short and sweet voicemail at (714) 681-2943.

号码是 714681。我们的主题曲由 Robin 创作。

That's 714681 Our theme song is by Robin.

原创音乐由 Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs 创作。

Original music is composed by Carolyn Pennypacker Riggs.

我们的logo由 Kenisha Snead 设计。

Our logos are by Kenisha Snead.

我们的联合制片人是玛丽亚·西布利。

Our associate producer is Maria Sibley.

本播客由吉娜·德尔瓦克制作。

This podcast is produced by Gina Delvac.