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从第一天起，我们就对我们的战略有清晰的认识，这一点从未改变。
We've been clear eyed about what our strategy is since day one, and that hasn't changed.
让内部人选担任首席信息官，能让我们始终专注于我们真正该做的事。
By having an internal candidate become the CIO, we can stay laser focused on what it is that we're here to do.
我们没有浪费任何时间，也没有重新调整方向。
There was no time wasted or lost repointing the ship.
这带来了巨大的优势。
That is a huge benefit.
我接任这个职位时，已经熟悉了整个投资组合，尤其是我们一些长期的合作关系。
I also coming into the role knew the portfolio, especially some of our long standing relationships.
他们扮演的角色、带来的价值，以及这些都不会很快改变——明确哪些方面不会动，这一点非常关键。
The role that they played, the value that they added, the fact that those were not gonna change anytime soon, having some clear things that we weren't gonna be changing was very valuable.
另一方面，我当上首席信息官后，也有几位新人加入了团队。
On the flip side, there were a couple new people that joined as I became CIO.
我们团队现在的一个优势是，很多人之前都在其他投资部门工作过，带来了不同的经验。
One of the things that is powerful right now about our team is that we have a lot of people that bring different experience with them from other investment offices.
我们理解并尊重这个投资组合的历史，明白我们过去能取得这样的回报是因为什么，也清楚哪些核心原则必须坚持。
We understand and respect the history of the portfolio, why we've been able to generate the returns that we have over time, what's important to stay focused on.
但与此同时，我们并没有在原地踏步。
And yet we're not stagnant in the work that we're doing.
这种平衡非常重要。
That pairing is important.
让我特别享受的是，能从团队身上学到东西，汲取他们从不同机构带过来的最佳实践。
And one of the things that's been very fun for me in having this team is the ability to learn from them, to draw from them the best practices that they bring to the table from the different places that they have all worked.
我是泰德·塞德斯，欢迎收听《资本配置者》。
I'm Ted Seides, and this is Capital Allocators.
今天节目的嘉宾是阿比盖尔·沃特利，威廉姆斯学院的首席投资官，负责管理学校45亿美元的捐赠基金。
My guest on today's show is Abigail Wattley, the chief investment officer of Williams College, where she oversees the school's 4 and a half billion dollar endowment.
她三年前接替了科莱特出任CIO，而科莱特的过往访谈已在节目中重播。
She became CIO three years ago upon the retirement of Collette whose past conversation is replayed in the feed.
阿比盖尔在威廉姆斯投资办公室工作了二十年，她的经历充分体现了长期深耕与机构智慧的价值。
Abigail has spent two decades in the Williams Investment Office, and her tenure manifests the benefits of duration and institutional knowledge in the seat.
我们的对话回顾了阿比盖尔在威廉姆斯投资办公室近二十年的职业历程，从最初的一名初级分析师，逐步成长为内部接任的首席投资官。
Our conversation traces Abigail's nearly twenty year journey inside the Williams Investment Office, from joining as an early analyst to becoming the internal successor CIO.
我们谈到了贯穿始终的投资使命，以及阿比盖尔从分析师到副手，再到决策者的转变过程，包括作为内部候选人所积累的深厚知识，如何在尊重机构传统与注入个人风格之间取得平衡，还有她对对冲基金、私募市场、流动性管理、实物资产、团队建设以及人工智能的看法。
We discussed the consistent mandate throughout alongside Abigail's evolution from analyst to deputy to decision maker, including the knowledge retained as an internal candidate, the tension between respecting an institution's history and putting her own stamp on the portfolio, and perspectives on hedge funds, private markets, liquidity management, real assets, team development, and AI.
在正式开始之前，正好是毕业季。
Before we get going, it's graduation season.
毕业演讲到处都是，我特别喜欢关注一些讲得好的。
Commencement speeches are everywhere, and I like tracking some of the best.
我强烈推荐今年乡村歌手埃里克·丘奇在北卡罗来纳大学的演讲。
I highly recommend country singer Eric Church's address to University of North Carolina this year.
真正出色的演讲，往往都围绕着相似的核心观点。
The good ones tend to converge on the same ideas.
保持好奇，找到导师，忠于自我，记住是谁帮你走到今天，毕业之后也要持续学习。
Stay curious, find mentors, be true to yourself, remember who got you here, and keep learning long after the classroom empties.
这些建议很扎实，但真要落实起来，却并不容易。
It's solid advice, but it's not always easy to act on.
因为一拿到毕业证，原有的结构就没了，接下来怎么安排自己的学习，全得靠你自己。
Because once your diploma's at hand, the structure disappears, and the responsibility to build your own curriculum falls falls entirely on you.
所以对于所有刚进入金融行业的新人，我很荣幸整理了一套投资者的持续学习计划，随时都能听，哪怕只有通勤或健身的那点时间。
So for all those new grads going into finance, I've had the privilege of assembling a continuing education program for investors available whenever they have an hour and a commute or a work out.
如果你认识刚毕业的人，现在正是顺手转发一集播客或者一个歌单的好时机。
So if you know someone just starting out, graduation season is a great excuse to forward an episode or a Spotify playlist.
这是一份不需要刷卡的礼物。
Consider it a gift that doesn't require a credit card.
非常感谢你们帮忙传播。
Thanks so much for spreading the word.
《资本配置者》由 AlphaSense 赞助播出。
Capital Allocators is brought to you by AlphaSense.
送你一点东西。
Here's something for you.
如今大多数人工智能工具，都很擅长说得头头是道。
Most AI tools today are very good at sounding right.
但你能追溯到具体的文件记录或那段话，确定它正是答案的来源吗？
But can you actually trace it back to a filing transcript or specific passage that drove the answer?
还是你只是单纯依赖系统输出的置信度？
Or are you just trusting the confidence of the output?
对于资产配置者来说，这可不是小问题。
For allocators, that's not a minor concern.
漏掉一份文件、来源错误，或者检索链条中丢失了上下文，这些都不是偶然情况。
A missed filing, incorrect source, or context that gets lost somewhere in a retrieval chain aren't edge cases.
它们恰恰就是决策出错的根源。
They're how decisions go wrong.
AlphaSense 就是专为解决这个问题而打造的 AI 平台。
AlphaSense is the AI platform built specifically for this.
他们掌握了海量内容，超过五亿份精心整理的资料，涵盖券商研究报告、专家访谈记录、官方文件和财报电话会。
They own the content, over 500,000,000 curated documents from broker research and expert transcripts to filings and earnings calls.
而且他们还掌控着上层的检索系统。
And they own the retrieval layer on top of it.
这意味着每一个回答都能追溯到确切可验证的来源，因为回答的质量完全取决于其底层的内容。
That means every answer can link back to an exact verifiable source because the answer is only as good as what's underneath it.
而使用 AlphaSense，你就能清楚知道这个来源是什么。
And with AlphaSense, you know exactly what that is.
亲自去看看吧。
See it for yourself.
前往 alpha-sense.com/capital 申请免费试用。
Try a free trial at alpha-sense.com/capital.
网址是 alphasense.com，中间有个连字符，后面跟斜杠和 capital。
That's alphasense.com with a hyphen in the middle slash capital.
《资本配置者》由 Admired Leadership 赞助播出。
Capital Allocators is also brought to you by admired leadership.
今年四月，在第 497 期节目中，我采访了 Admired Leadership 的创始人兰德尔·斯塔特曼，他为超过五百位首席执行官提供过指导，其中不乏资产管理领域最受尊敬的人物。
Back in April on episode four ninety seven, I sat down with Randall Stuttman, the executive coach behind Admired Leadership, who's advised more than 500 CEOs, including some of the most respected names in asset management.
兰德尔向我介绍了 Alex，这是一位基于四十年独家研究成果打造的 AI 领导力教练团队。
Randall introduced me to Alex, an AI leadership coach's team built on forty years of proprietary research into what the best leaders actually do.
对于投资行业的专业人士来说，这意味着整个团队都能随时获得基于结果导向行为的辅导，这种辅导有助于培养忠诚度，留住顶尖人才。
For investment professionals, that means your entire team gets on demand coaching grounded in the behaviors that drive results and build the kind of followership that retains your top talent.
我们自己在Capital Allocators团队里也在用，大家都特别认可。
We use and our team at Capital Allocators swears by it.
点击节目说明里的链接，亲自试试Alex吧，地址是tryalex.admiredleadership.com。
Try Alex for yourself at the link in our show notes, tryalex.admiredleadership.com.
接下来，请欣赏我与阿比盖尔·瓦特利的对话。
Please enjoy my conversation with Abigail Wattley.
阿比盖尔，非常感谢你今天来参加。
Abigail, thanks so much for joining me.
今天能和你交流真是太好了。
So great to be with you today.
谢谢，泰德。
Thanks, Ted.
我很想请你聊聊你职业生涯中的关键经历。
I would love you to take me through the highlights of your career.
我2005年从威廉姆斯学院毕业。
I graduated from Williams in 2005.
之后我很幸运地进入了剑桥联合公司工作。
From there, was very lucky to get a position at Cambridge Associates.
大学最后一年，我就对高等教育的经济问题产生了兴趣。
I had gotten interested in the economics of higher education as a senior in college.
我很幸运能选修我们时任校长莫蒂·夏皮罗的研讨课。
I was fortunate to get to take a tutorial with our then president of the college, Morty Shapiro.
他是一位经济学家。
He was an economist.
这让我第一次真正看到了高等教育和金融这个领域。
That opened my eyes to this whole world of higher education and finance.
正因如此，我才想去剑桥联合公司。
That's what interested me in going to Cambridge Associates.
我在那儿待了两年。
I was there for two years.
时机正好，地方也对。
Right place, right time.
我那时还是个初级分析师，刚好被分到威廉姆斯学院的项目上。
I was fortunate to be a very junior analyst that happened to be staffed on the Williams account.
那段时间，学院正好决定聘请首位专职首席投资官——科莉特·奇尔顿。
It happened to overlap with the period of time where the college had made a choice to hire its first dedicated chief investment officer, Collette Chilton.
她一来，我就开始和她紧密合作。
When she came on board, I started working closely with her.
当时她手底下没什么人手。
She didn't have much of a team at the time.
如果你听过她的播客，会听到一个笑话，说她那时候就一台电脑、一部电话，别的啥都没有。
If you listen to her podcast, there was a joke about her having a computer and a phone and not much else.
等到2007年春天她终于有了办公室，我就跟着她一起来到了威廉姆斯投资办公室。
When she finally had office space in spring of two thousand and seven, I ended up joining her here at the Williams Investment Office.
从那以后我就一直在这儿，除了去读商学院的两年外。
Been here ever since, except for a two year break for business school.
给我讲讲
Take me
这二十年来办公室的成长历程吧。
through twenty years of growth inside the office.
你当时知道些什么？一路上又学到了哪些关于投资流程、寻找基金经理的方方面面？
What you knew, what you came to learn along the way about the investment process, researching managers, everything?
无论是我个人，还是我们的投资组合和如今的运作方式，都经历了巨大的成长。
It's a tremendous amount of growth both for me personally as well as for our portfolio and what it is that we do today.
我们2007年刚来的时候，之前办公室的运作全靠一个志愿者委员会管理。
When we first got here back in 2007, the history of the office prior to that was everything was managed by a volunteer committee.
我们早期做的一件事，就是建立了一个政策性投资组合。
Early on, one of the things that we did was to put in place a policy portfolio.
当时需要处理大量的基金经理选择决策。
There were a lot of manager decisions that we had to go through.
即使刚来当分析师，这段经历也让我大开眼界。
Being here even as an analyst early on was such an eye opening experience.
我们什么都干过，从四十亿美元的账户转移，到亲手打包快递信封，中间各种活儿都干过。
We did everything from a $400,000,000 transition from a separately managed account that we had to stuffing the FedEx envelopes and everything in between.
我记得当时 setup 了很多业绩报告。
I remember setting up a lot of the performance reports.
有些到现在我们还在用。
Some of them we still use today.
有时候别人会跟我说，这个报告就是这么用的。
Sometimes people will say to me, this is how this report works.
我就笑笑说，没错，肯定还是老样子。
And I just chuckle and say, yep, I'm sure it works still exactly the same.
里面的门道我全清楚。
I know what the ins and outs are.
这些年，我们在投资方面的发展简直翻天覆地。
We have continued to develop as an investment organization so much during that time.
我们刚起步的时候，管理规模才十亿三千万。
When we first started, it was 1,300,000,000.
现在我们的资产规模大约是45亿美元。
Today, we're about 4 and a half billion in assets.
我们积累了大量关于投资组合有效做法的经验。
We've accrued a lot of knowledge about what works for the portfolio.
我们当然也犯过错误，但一路上也做出了不少明智的决定。
We've made mistakes, but we've also made good decisions along the way.
如果你回看最初那几年，单说研究一个基金经理、做一项决策，那时候你有哪些认知是后来才明白的？
If you look at your first couple of years and just take the unit of researching a manager, thinking about a decision, what did you know or not know that you learned in the next phase?
刚开始的时候，我懂的其实不多。
I didn't know a lot early on.
我在这儿工作了一年才去读商学院。
I was here for a year before I went to business school.
我在2010年回到了投资办公室。
I came back to the Investment Office in 2010.
我记得当时和科莉特坐下来谈过。
I remember sitting down with Collette.
我那天和她一起吃午饭。
I'd gone out to lunch with her.
那是我上商学院的第二年。
It was my second year of business school.
我当时收到了几份工作邀约，正想请她帮我拿个主意，该选哪一个。
I had a couple job offers and I was sitting down to ask her advice about which one I might take.
她说，我真的很希望你能回投资办公室来。
She said, well, I'd really like for you to come back to the Investment Office.
你有没有考虑过回来？
Would you consider doing that?
我说，当然愿意，我特别想回来。
I said, yes, I'd love to.
她接着说，那你先写一份你理想中岗位的职位描述吧。
She said, okay, why don't you write the job description for the job that you'd like to do?
然后再来讨论。
Then we'll talk about it.
我记得那天回家后，就把那份职位描述写了出来。
I remember going home and writing that job description.
那份职位描述里有三个关键点。
There were three key things that were on that job description.
第一，我想独立负责某些资产类别。
One was I wanted to own asset classes.
第二，我想带团队，所以才提到了分析师项目。
Two is I wanted to manage people, hence the analyst program.
第三，我想向科莱特汇报，因为我知道跟着她能学到很多。
Three was I wanted to report to Collette because I knew that was gonna be my opportunity to learn a lot.
我想她后来去找了当时两位主管——一位管公开市场，一位管非公开市场，问他们：你们谁愿意把这块业务让出来？
I think what she did was went to the two managing directors at the time, one on the marketable, one on the non marketable side and said, which asset class do you wanna give up?
我总觉得我最后分到的资产类别挺不错的，但其实那都是没人想接手的，所以我管的是投资级固定收益和实物资产。
I like to think that I ended up with great asset classes, but I think they were basically the ones nobody wanted, which meant that I was managing investment grade fixed income and real assets.
那时候我对这两个领域其实没什么经验。
I had not a lot of background in either of those areas of the market.
这些资产类别一旦深入挖掘，其实非常专业。
Those are really technical asset classes when you start to peel back the layers of the onion.
我需要学的东西太多了。
I had a lot to learn.
这是我学到的最重要的一课：如何深入钻研一个市场领域。
That was one of my greatest lessons, figuring out how to dive deep and learn an area of the market.
我一开始是参加了很多研讨会。
It started with a lot of conferences.
我还记得去参加了PIMCO为期一周的债券强化培训。
I remember going to a PIMCO Bond boot Camp for a week.
他们以前办过特别棒的培训，一整个星期都在加州进行。
They used to run this amazing boot camp, spent a week out in California.
比尔·格罗斯亲自到场，所有资深投资经理都来给我们讲债券的方方面面。
Bill Gross was there and they had all their senior PMs teaching us everything there was to know about bonds.
那次培训算是我正式进入固定收益领域的起点。
That was my indoctrination into the world of fixed income.
石油和天然气也是类似，我是在新英格兰长大的。
Similarly with oil and gas, I grew up in New England.
所以那时候我得经常跑得克萨斯州。
So that meant I needed to go spend a lot of time in Texas.
南方卫理公会大学还有一个特别棒的项目。
There also was this great program at SMU.
他们管它叫‘给非石油工程师的油气投资课’。
They used to call it oil and gas investing for non petroleum engineers.
那是个为期一周的课程，跟之前一样，我们整天坐在教室里。
It was a week long course, and it was the same thing where we would sit in a classroom.
我们会研究井况报告。
We would look at well reports.
老师会告诉我们该重点关注哪些内容。
They would tell us what we were supposed to be looking at.
我从中学到了很多。
I learned a ton from that.
一路上遇到了很多在这些资产领域很有经验的人，他们给了我很多帮助。
There were so many great people along the way who were established in those asset classes that helped me along.
那是我第一次真正学会怎么深入一个市场，怎么去了解那些基金经理。
That was my first experience, how to dig in in a market, how to dig in on managers.
这段经历为我后来的职业道路打下了基础。
It set me up for what I ended up doing later.
当你掌握了这些技术知识后，即使在那两个资产类别里，你也能开始判断谁真正做得好。那你对基金经理有了哪些新的认识？是怎么做到心里有底、觉得自己真懂了的？
Once you built that technical knowledge, you could say even in those two asset classes, and then started applying it to understanding who was good in the space, what did you come to learn about managers to get to the point where you were comfortable that you felt like you knew what you were doing?
我学到最重要的一课是：你可以教别人该做什么，但很难教会他们不该做什么，除非他们自己亲身犯过错。
One of the biggest lessons that I learned is that you can teach people what they're supposed to do, but it's really hard to teach people what they're not supposed to do without them actually making the mistakes themselves.
我很庆幸当初有足够长的试错空间，让我慢慢摸索，而这些错误恰恰是我收获最大的地方。
One of the things that I'm very grateful for was how long of a leash I had to figure out some of the mistakes, and that's maybe where I had the greatest lessons.
当明显看出某个机会特别好时， chances 很大你就该直接上手去做。
One of them is when it's clear that there's something great, chances are good you should just go for it.
在这个行业里，没人会因为你干得难就给你加分。
In this business, we don't get points for difficulty.
我们靠赚钱来得分。
We get points for making money.
你不一定非得去挖那些没人发现的冷门机会。
You don't necessarily have to always go find the least discovered idea.
如果有人反复向你推荐某个经理，那很可能值得你花大量时间去深入了解。
If somebody's recommending a manager to you over and over again, for example, probably worth taking that advice and at least spending a lot of time on it.
另个问题是，实物资产领域当时没多少人花那么多心思研究。
The other thing is real assets was not a place where quite as many people were spending a ton of time.
那些经理们对我特别慷慨，愿意花很多时间指导我。
The managers were so generous with me and the time that they gave me.
这让我能安心地在会议室一坐就是好几个小时，拼命问各种问题。
It got me comfortable sitting in a conference room for hours upon hours, constantly asking as many questions as I possibly could.
他们对我也很有耐心。
They were also patient with me.
这也让我学到了很多。
That taught me a lot too.
我的一些经验就是，别害怕提问，需要时间的时候就大胆花时间。
Those are some of my lessons is not being afraid to ask questions, to take their time when you need it.
你肯定会犯一些错。
You're gonna make some mistakes.
你是怎么做到的
How did
科莉特是怎么帮你犯错，又不让这些错误影响到投资组合的呢？毕竟决策机会本来就不多。
Collette work with you to allow you to make mistakes but then not have it impact a portfolio when there aren't really that many decisions that get made?
我负责大部分基础工作，比如找项目、做调研、建立人脉，列出一个初步的候选名单。
I would do a lot of the legwork, the sourcing, the landscaping, the networking, coming up with a short list of ideas.
在任何基金经理进入投资组合之前，她都会亲自见一面。
She always met with every single one of our managers before they went into the portfolio.
她真的很厉害。
She was very good.
只要你把一个经理介绍给她，她马上就能翻到第47页——我不知道她是怎么培养出这种直觉的，但往往五分钟内她就能找到问题所在。
Whenever you put a manager in front of her, she would flip to immediately page 47 of I don't know how she developed this instinct, but she could get to page 47 within the first five minutes and be like, this is the issue.
她会陪我去参加最后的尽职调查会议，那时我就能得到很多反馈，比如我们大概会朝这个方向走。
She would come with me for those final diligence meetings, and that's where I would get a lot of feedback on, we're probably gonna lean in this direction.
在流程后期，她会帮助推动我们整体的方向。
She would, towards the end of the process, help drive the direction of where we were going.
这让我学到了很多。
That taught me a lot.
你是怎么从最初只覆盖这两类资产，逐步扩展到整个投资组合的？
How did you evolve from covering these two asset classes to broadening across the portfolio?
我接下来最重要的一步，就是接手了我们的对冲基金资产类别。
The biggest next step that I took was taking over our hedge fund asset classes.
这些资产类别对我们投资组合来说一直很重要。
Those have been important asset classes for our portfolio.
我们长期以来都是对冲基金的投资者。
We've been long term investors in hedge funds.
那时候，对冲基金可能占了投资组合的40%。
At the time, they might have represented 40% of the portfolio.
因为我之前已经积累了一些学习新事物的经验，比如去掌握多空股票和绝对收益这类复杂领域，其中有很多细节需要注意。
Because I had built a little bit of a muscle around how to learn to do something new, stepping into the complexity of long short equity and absolute return, there's some more sensitivities.
你花多少时间跟基金经理沟通？
How much time you're taking with managers?
我得学会优化我的尽职调查流程，这真是一个很大的进步。
I had to learn to sharpen my diligence process, which was a really good evolution.
那是一个完全不同的圈子。
It was a different network.
我需要接触LP和GP社区里一批新的人，这让我开阔了眼界。
There were new people that I needed to talk to from the LP community as well as the GP community that expanded my horizons.
在这些年里
In the years
在你接任首席投资官之前，我们投资组合的思路有什么变化？
before you took over as CIO, what changed in the thinking on the investment portfolio here?
我们现在正处在资产配置的讨论阶段。
We're in the midst of our asset allocation work right now.
这总是一个停下来反思的好机会。
It's always a good opportunity to stop and reflect.
我一直在长期关注这个投资组合。
I have been looking a lot at the portfolio over time.
我们核心业务的主体结构一直没有变。
The big blocks of what we do haven't changed.
每年我们都会做一些细微的调整。
There are on the margin changes that we're making every year.
威廉姆斯做得特别好的一点，是我们始终如一地执行投资策略，始终围绕着我们最根本的使命：我们为什么存在。
One of the things that has worked really well for Williams is that we've been extremely consistent in how we deploy the portfolio, what works for Williams, keeping at the center of what we do, why is it that we're here.
我们对这一点非常清醒。
We're very clear eyed about that.
我们的目标是实现每年5%的实际回报，确保在承担适当风险的同时，保持足够的流动性，因为我们支撑着学院近60%的运营预算。
Our job is to earn a 5% real return to make sure that we're doing that with the appropriate level of risk that we're taking, ensuring that we have sufficient liquidity because we support nearly 60% of the operating budget for the college.
是的，这些数字有些微调，比如对运营预算的支撑比例。
Yes, those numbers have changed on the margin, the percentage of the operating budget support, for example.
我们的目标从未改变过。
Our goals have never changed.
我们实现目标的方式一直很稳定。
The way that we pursue that has remained consistent.
这正是我们真正的优势所在。
That's a real source of strength for us.
你怎么
How do you
看待你的策略，或者说作为有限合伙人，你凭什么能赢？
think about your strategy and almost your right to win as an LP?
作为下一个有限合伙人，你打算为感兴趣的基金带来什么价值？
What do you bring to the table as the next LP and a fund that you're interested in investing in?
当我们和基金经理见面，尤其是争取那些名额有限的投资机会时，我们会聊几个关键点。
There are a couple different things that we will talk about with a manager when we're meeting with them and hopefully getting access to something that may be more access constrained.
首先是那个真正能引起共鸣的使命。
One is the mission that really does resonate with people.
威廉姆斯学院的助学金项目非常慷慨。
Williams is extremely generous with its financial aid program.
目前我们的助学金项目里完全没有贷款，这都要归功于捐赠基金和捐助者的大力支持。
We have no loans in our financial aid program at this point in time because of the generosity that comes from the endowment and our donors.
这一点特别能打动人心。
That resonates with people.
除此之外，我们管理的资产规模达到了45亿美元。
Beyond that, we manage a nice size of assets at 4,500,000,000.
我们能在投资组合中占据有意义的份额，又不会让管理团队感到压力，双方都能成为真正有价值的合作伙伴。
We can have a meaningful position in our portfolio without overwhelming a manager, still be meaningful partners in both directions.
我们这儿有一支出色的团队。
We have an amazing team here.
他们既聪明又富有洞察力。
They are smart and thoughtful.
有时候，人们就是喜欢和他们面对面坐下来聊聊。
Sometimes people just like sitting across the table from them.
我们会准时参加所有会议。
We show up to meetings.
我们总是做好充分准备。
We're prepared.
我们会提出细致而深入的问题。
We ask careful, thoughtful questions.
我们希望和基金经理站在同一边。
We wanna be on the same team as our managers.
这种做法真的很容易引起共鸣。
That approach really can resonate.
当科莱特准备退休的时候，你已经在这个位置上待了很久。
When it came time for a Collette to retire, you've been in a seat for a long time.
我想了解一下，从你的角度看，你是怎么一步步走上首席投资官这个位置的？
I'm curious what the lead up to that in your becoming the CIO look like from your perspective.
这件事有些地方发生得很快，但同时又感觉很慢。
There are ways in which it went fast and also slow at the same time.
我最欣赏的一个准备步骤是，这个交接其实早就公开了，大概在一月或二月就公布了，而Collette的退休日期定在六月三十号。
One of my favorite preparation points, it was public that this transition was happening, probably got announced like in January or February and Collette was retiring June 30.
我们专程去了加州。
We went out to California.
我们在那儿待了将近一周，见了所有管理层的人，尤其是那些我平时接触不多、主要在投资组合的私有业务那边的同事。
We spent close to a week together meeting all of our managers, anybody that I hadn't spent quite as much time with, particularly on the private side of the portfolio.
她确保自己做了一次周全、干净的交接。
She was making sure that she had done a careful, clean handoff.
那段时间能和她待在一起，让我有机会问一些以前没敢问的问题。
That opportunity to spend that time with her now be in a place where there were questions that I could ask her that I hadn't before.
我能和她分享一些内心的顾虑，一起讨论这些问题，这成了我最珍视的过渡时刻之一。
Some of the anxieties that I could share with her and we could talk through some of those things was one of my favorite transition points.
当时需要交接的事情真的很多。
And there were a lot of different things we had to transition.
管理层的关系对我们来说至关重要。
Manager relationships are so important to what we do.
她处理这一切时的细致和用心，真的非常宝贵。
The care and thoughtfulness in which she worked through that was really valuable.
在很多交接过程中，我们通常看不到内部候选人直接接任首席信息官。
In a lot of transitions we see, you don't necessarily see the internal candidate become the next CIO.
我很想听听你对时间长度的看法。
I'd love to get your perspective on the value of duration.
你在这里待了二十年才成为首席信息官，你觉得因为团队的稳定性，威廉姆斯公司从中获得了哪些好处？
Having been here for twenty years now becoming the CIO, what are some of the things that you think Williams has benefited from because of the duration of the team?
从一开始，我们就很清楚自己的战略方向，而且从未改变过。
We've been clear eyed about what our strategy is since day one, and that hasn't changed.
由内部人选接任首席信息官，能让我们始终聚焦在真正该做的事上。
By having an internal candidate become the CIO, we can stay laser focused on what it is that we're here to do.
完全没有浪费时间去重新调整方向。
There was no time wasted or lost repointing the ship.
这带来的好处太大了。
That is a huge benefit.
我接手这个职位时，早就熟悉了整个投资组合，尤其是那些长期合作的关系，它们发挥的作用、带来的价值，还有就是这些关系短期内都不会变。
I also coming into the role knew the portfolio, especially some of our long standing relationships, the role that they played, the value that they added, the fact that those were not gonna change anytime soon.
明确知道哪些方面不会改动，这一点非常关键。
Having some clear things that we weren't gonna be changing was very valuable.
另一方面，我当上CIO后，也有几位新人加入了团队。
On the flip side, there were a couple new people that joined as I became CIO.
现在我们团队的一大优势，就是很多人之前都在其他投资机构工作过，带来了不同的经验。
One of the things that is powerful right now about our team is that we have a lot of people that bring different experience with them from other investment offices.
我们理解并尊重投资组合的历史，明白我们过去为什么能取得这样的回报，清楚哪些核心原则必须坚持，同时我们的工作也从不僵化。
We understand and respect the history of the portfolio, why we've been able to generate the returns that we have over time, what's important to stay focused on, and yet we're not stagnant in the work that we're doing.
这种结合非常重要。
That pairing is important.
和这个团队共事，让我特别开心的一点，就是能从他们身上学到东西，汲取他们从各自过往经历中带来的最佳实践。
And one of the things that's been very fun for me in having this team is the ability to learn from them, to draw from them the best practices that they bring to the table from the different places that they have all worked.
你有没有遇到过哪些让你眼前一亮的例子，是别人从以前的工作中带过来的？
What are some examples of things that were eye opening for you that other people brought in from their past experiences?
我之前对生物科技这个领域接触不多。
I spent little time previously on biotech as an opportunity set.
两位董事总经理，朱莉娅和保罗，在这个领域都有丰富的投资经验。
Both of the managing directors, Julia and Paul, have a lot of experience investing in that space.
一开始他们俩就提到，我们可以在这个方向上多投入一些。
That was an area where early on they were both saying, we could lean in here.
这里面有不少值得关注的机会。
There's some interesting opportunities.
他们俩都有一份很成熟的优质管理人名单，值得我们去接触。
They both had well developed lists of high quality managers that we should be speaking to.
那时候，我在团队里经验是最少的。
In that moment, I was the least experienced one at the table.
但说实话，我反而特别高兴，因为这对我们的投资组合来说是个绝佳的机会。
I, in some ways, loved that because it was such an opportunity for our portfolio.
我们得把握好分寸，不能操之过急，要稳扎稳打。
We had to strike a balance of not doing too much too quickly and being careful.
反过来，当我们能在一个领域好好干一番时，真的让人很兴奋。
On the flip side, it's exciting when there's an area for us that we can go do good work.
我们从大家的经验中学到了很多不错的流程改进方法，这还额外帮我们更深入了解投资组合、更了解基金经理、更清楚自己持有哪些资产。
There's been a lot of interesting process improvements that we've been able to adapt from everybody's experiences, which has had the added benefit of helping us know our portfolio even better, know our managers better, know what we hold.
这是一个真正拥抱技术的文化。
This is a culture that really embraces technology.
能够接纳并利用技术来优化工作，真的非常好。
That's been wonderful to embrace that and improve things.
你们在技术方面具体做了哪些不同的事？
What have you done differently with tech?
我们现在能随时掌握投资组合的详细情况，这对分析风险敞口特别有帮助。
We have better look through transparency on the portfolio at our fingertips, which is helpful when we're thinking about exposures.
我们手里都有些什么？
What do we own?
我们没持有的，又有哪些是应该多配置的？
What do we not own that we should own more of?
我们现在能自动下载并整理来自所有管理人的全部数据。
We've been able to automatically download and organize all of our data from all of our different managers.
以前光做这件事就得花一个人半的工时。
We used to have probably a person and a half worth of people time doing that work.
这个投资组合里有三百五十项不同的资产。
We have three fifty different line items in this portfolio.
你能想象 Intralinks 上每天得上传多少资料吧。
You can imagine how much content gets posted to Intralinks.
不用再花时间做这些琐事，意味着我们能多花点时间去阅读和分析，而不是光整理数据。
To not be spending time on those things is valuable because that means we're spending more time reading and analyzing than just compiling.
你有没有听到团队其他成员对某些管理人提出过不同看法？毕竟你在这儿待久了，可能有些视角会错过。
Curious if there are any other perspectives that other team members brought in about specific managers that you feel like you might have missed because you've been there for a long time?
我们重新评估了整个投资组合，因为每当有新人接手新的资产类别时，都必须这么做。
We have reunderwritten the entire portfolio because you have to when you have new people coming on board and taking over responsibility for asset classes.
这个过程真的让人很谦卑。
That has been humbling.
这些资产类别里，有些是我当初一手搭建起来的。
Some of these were asset classes that I might have originally built up.
换个角度看这些问题，你才会意识到，有些地方自己确实松懈了，或者让某些说法拖得太久。
When you look at some of these things through the eyes of another person, you do realize there are certain places where maybe you have gotten more complacent or you've let the story run a little too long.
我们最近做了不少非常不错的调整。
We have been making a lot of really good changes.
我们背景各不相同，但在投资理念上，其实对偏好的管理人类型有相似的倾向。
We all come from different backgrounds, but in some ways philosophically similar backgrounds in terms of the kinds of managers we have historically gravitated to.
因为团队特别棒，大家敢于尝试新东西，这才让我们有机会去关注过去没怎么碰过的领域。
Because we have such a great team here, there's safety in thinking about new things that has allowed us to look at opportunities that we might not have historically.
比如市场中性策略，或者一些更量化的投资方法——以前我们组合里几乎没有，但现在至少愿意去了解这些领域了。
Things, for example, in the market neutral space or some of the more quantitative strategies, which were not historically represented in our portfolio, at least getting the comfort to say we should know the space.
得认真想想，这些领域是不是真有什么值得我们去做的机会。
We should be smart about whether or not maybe there is something to be doing here.
我们彼此配合得很好，所以愿意一起投入这些新工作。
We complement each other well enough to be willing to go do that work.
你觉得，因为团队只有七个人，有哪些事情是你很想做但做不到的？如果人手更充足，能覆盖全球的话，你可能会去尝试哪些领域？
What are some of the things that you feel like you can't do because of a seven person investment team that you might like to if you had more resources and trying to cover the world?
我们现在没在做的那些事，其实我们一直都在想，是不是该多做一点？
Things that we don't do right now that we've wondered, should we do more of?
比如，我们从不参与联合投资。
For example, we don't do co invest.
我们也不直接评估和投资项目。
We don't underwrite direct investments.
我们现在管理着45亿美元，规模上可能还够用，暂时没问题。
We're at $4,500,000,000 We're probably still at a scale where that's Okay.
但迟早有一天，我们得练出这方面的本事。
But at some point in time, that may be a muscle that we need to build.
我们经常讨论但实际没怎么做的另一件事，是参与二级市场——不管是卖出我们现有投资组合的部分，还是买入其他基金的份额。
Another thing we talk a lot about but we haven't done much of is participate in the secondary market, whether it's selling pieces of our existing portfolio or buying pieces of other portfolios.
这需要花大量时间、精力和资源，而这些过去从来不是我们工作的重点。
That takes a lot of time and work and effort and bandwidth that hasn't historically been part of our practice.
我想深入聊聊对冲基金。
I'd love to double click on hedge funds.
你现在怎么看对冲基金的作用？以前它们占你们投资的40%，你们现在是怎么参与这个领域的？
What do you think today about the role of hedge funds that said at least once were 40% of what you're doing and how you're participating in that space?
对冲基金现在不再是40%了，但依然很重要。
Hedge funds are no longer 40%, but they're still meaningful.
目前，我们在多头、空头和绝对收益组合中的整体目标配置是27%。
Today, our target allocation across our long, short and absolute return portfolio is 27% in aggregate.
我们依然相信它们的价值。
We're a believer.
对冲基金一直是投资组合中非常关键的部分，不仅帮我们实现之前提到的收益目标，还保持了流动性，同时有助于控制波动。
They have been a very important part of our portfolio, not only for meeting that return objective that I mentioned, they do so while maintaining our liquidity, also helping us to manage volatility.
每年要花掉投资组合的5%，这三项要求就都至关重要。
When you're spending 5% of the portfolio every year, all three of those mandates do matter.
人们谈回报的时候常常忽略一点：如果这个捐赠基金的目标只是放着不动、十年都不动用，那做法肯定和每年必须提取5%完全不同。
Something that gets lost when people talk about returns, If the goal of this endowment was to just put it in a drawer and not spend from it for ten years, you might do something differently than if you knew you had to draw 5% from it every year.
在这种背景下，对冲基金确实很有意义。
In that context, hedge funds make a lot of sense.
它们显然经历过多个周期，有时表现好，有时表现差。
They've obviously gone through many different cycles and periods where they've done better or worse.
威廉斯在这方面很幸运，因为我们一直保持着这些长期合作关系。
This is where Williams is fortunate in that we've had these long standing relationships.
我们有信心穿越这些周期。
We have the confidence to see through cycles.
我们合作的一些顶尖基金经理，为投资组合带来了出色的回报。
We have some amazing manager names that have done well for the portfolio.
你怎么看待在追求这类收益的同时，平衡那众所周知的高成本？二十年前，对冲基金要达到我们所需的回报要容易得多。
How do you think about balancing the desire for that type of return profile and the known high costs of doing business when twenty years ago, it sure looked a lot easier for hedge funds to generate what you needed for the portfolio.
关键问题是，这种优势是不是又回来了。
The big question is whether or not that's come back in style.
如果波动性重新出现，而且做多做空的思路也重新变得可行的话。
If volatility is back and the ability to think about things both long and short maybe back.
利率不再为零了，这一点也有帮助。
Rates are no longer zero, so that's also helpful.
我们看的是扣掉费用后的净收益。
We look at things net of fees.
我们不会单纯从费用成本的角度来看待它们。
We don't think of them from a cost perspective as the fees.
只要扣掉费用后还能为投资组合带来价值，我们就愿意保留。
If net of fees, they justify a role in the portfolio, then we are happy to have them.
确实有一些非常出色的管理人才。
And there is some really good talent.
我知道各类资产风格总是在轮换。
I know asset classes go in and out of style a lot.
在这种情况下，你得问问自己：那些人才真的突然全跑光了吗？
What you have to ask yourself in that context is, did all the talent leave suddenly?
还是说，现在只是个更艰难的时期？
Or is this a more difficult period of time?
对冲基金是个庞大的整体。
Hedge funds is a big monolith.
里面依然有很多优秀的人才。
There's plenty of talent still.
我们的任务就是确保自己接触到的正是这些人才。
Our job is to make sure that that's what we're accessing.
最近大家经常讨论私募市场的流动性、各方的立场以及未来的回报。
Lot of discussion these days about private market liquidity and where people are sitting and future returns.
我很想听听你对这个问题的看法。
I'd love to get your perspective on how you're thinking about
我们团队一直在讨论这个问题。
We talk about it all the time as a team.
我们也会和我们的投资委员会深入交流，因为我们的投资组合经受过多个周期的考验。
We talk about it with our amazing investment committee because our portfolio was very cycle tested.
我们愿意等待，保持耐心。
We are comfortable waiting, being patient.
从我们的角度看，我们对另类资产类别角色的看法并没有发生重大变化。
From our perspective, there is no big headline change in how we're thinking about the role of private asset classes.
真正发生变化的是我们在资金投入节奏上的模型调整。
Where it does change is our modeling as it relates to our commitment pace modeling.
如果市场预期是流动性会再紧张一段时间，我们是否需要稍微放缓投入步伐，或者重新评估这些资产类别可能达到的规模，并对相关情景做压力测试？
If the expectation is gonna be that things may be less liquid for a little bit longer, do we need to modestly slow down commitments or think about how big those asset classes could become stress testing some of those scenarios?
总体来说，我们依然坚定配置这些资产类别，但前提是清楚地意识到时间线可能会延长。
Big picture, we're committed to the asset classes with the caveat that we're aware that timelines could be extended.
我们也要留意这对投资组合构建意味着什么。
And we wanna be mindful about what that means from a portfolio construction perspective.
接下来我们短暂休息一下，为您介绍摩根士丹利投资管理。
We're gonna take a quick break in the action to tell you about Morgan Stanley Investment Management.
最出色的资产配置方与管理人之间的关系，不是简单的交易往来。
The best allocator manager relationships aren't transactional.
它们是在不同市场周期中，通过深入的讨论和对机构目标的共同理解逐步建立起来的。
They're built over market cycles through difficult conversations and around a shared understanding of what an institution's trying to accomplish.
摩根士丹利投资管理公司已与全球各类机构合作四十年，覆盖股票、固定收益、另类投资及定制化解决方案，管理资产规模达1.9万亿美元。
Morgan Stanley Investment Management has partnered with institutions for four decades across equity, fixed income, alternatives, and custom solutions with $1,900,000,000,000 in assets worldwide.
了解更多，请访问 morganstanley.com/im/solutions。
Learn more at morganstanley.com/im/solutions.
摩根士丹利投资管理公司是摩根士丹利旗下的资产管理子公司。
Morgan Stanley Investment Management is the asset management division of Morgan Stanley.
数据截至2025年12月31日。
Statistics as of 12/31/2025.
所有投资都存在亏损风险。
All investing involves risk of loss.
观点可能随时调整。
Views are subject to change.
不构成投资建议或推荐。
Not investment advice or a recommendation.
版权所有 © 2026 年，摩根士丹利。
Copyright 2026, Morgan Stanley.
保留所有权利。
All rights reserved.
接下来，继续回到节目。
And now back to the show.
当你做完这个数学推算，最终你会得出一个什么样的结论，关于你希望在年度基础上如何降低投资节奏？
When you run through that math exercise, where do you come at on the other end of how much you want to reduce your commitment pacing on a run rate basis?
这挺有意思也挺复杂，因为影响这一点的还有一个关键因素，就是你对整体资金池增长的预期有多高。
It's interesting and tricky because one of the things that drives that too is how much growth do you expect from the overall pool.
即使我们已经推迟了退出时间，预期的回报分配还是会进一步延后。
Even when we have pushed out, the expectation is distributions might be further out into the future.
把这一点和资金池未来预期的增长结合起来看，实际的降幅并没有你想象的那么大。
When you pair that with this is the expected growth of the pool over time, it's not as dramatic as you would think.
我们已经看到风投组合有轻微下滑。
We've seen a little bit of a decline in the venture portfolio.
我们目前的模型显示，我们反而还需要继续增加对收购交易的投入，这一点在团队里引发了很大争议。
The model we're working on right now is telling us we still need to be stepping up commitments and buyouts, interestingly, which is a point of big discussion within the team.
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我们觉得这个模型里的假设够充分吗？
Do we think we have enough good assumptions in this model?
我一贯的说法是，模型只是参考。
The other thing I will always say is the models are guidelines.
我们很清楚，不是在填满一个个盒子。
We're mindful of the fact that we are not filling buckets.
模型可能告诉我们，今年需要承诺1.5亿美元。
The model may tell us we need to do $150,000,000 of commitments this year.
但如果没看到匹配这个规模的机会，我们也不会硬做。
If we don't see opportunity that matches that level, we're just gonna do it.
我们更倾向于看未来三年的平均值，而不是单一年度的承诺预算。
We also try to think about things in the average over the next three years versus any one year's commitment budget.
这目标是动态变化的。
It's a moving target.
我们可以频繁地调整它。
We get to adjust it a lot.
它能根据市场变化做出反应。
It's responsive to the market.
表面数字看起来更大了。
The headline numbers are bigger.
这对我们来说还是个疑问。
That is a question mark for us.
风险投资领域有很多成功企业，至今仍作为规模庞大的后期私营公司存在，并进入了我们的投资组合。
There's a lot of successes in the venture world that are still sitting as very large late stage privates that filter into your portfolio.
你们是怎么看待那些已经取得成功、但目前还无法变现的初创公司的？
How have you thought about that group of companies that have been winners from venture investments that you don't have liquidity on today?
正因如此，我们很幸运能做长期投资者。
This is where we're fortunate to be long term investors.
我们可以非常有耐心。
We can be really patient.
对于大多数这类公司，我们都认同风投经理的看法：它们仍在持续增长。
For most of those companies, we agree with our venture managers that they're still compounding.
不管它们有没有上市，都是很棒的公司，我们能从它们持续的增长中长期受益。
Whether or not they're publicly traded, they're still great companies, and we're gonna benefit long term from their continued growth.
这确实影响了我们的资产配置。
It has had an impact on our asset allocation.
过去几年里，我们特意提高了在风投领域对收购类项目的配置目标。
One of the things that we did do over the last few years was increase our target to buyouts in Venture.
这么做的原因有不少。
There were a number of reasons for that.
其中一个原因是，我们意识到越来越多的公司选择长期保持私有状态，它们会在我们的私人投资组合里持续增值。
Part of it is in recognition of the fact that there are a lot of companies staying private for longer and they're going to compound in your private portfolio.
有意思的是，这些投资带来的回报，到底还像不像传统的风投回报，还是已经变成了别的类型？
What's also interesting about that is whether or not you're still getting venture like returns on those investments or are they something different?
只要能带来股权回报，我们通常就比较安心，因为最重要的是，我们要确保在广义的股权资产中拥有足够大的比重，以捕捉增长机会。
As long as they're equity returns, we're generally comfortable because most important is we wanna make sure we have a significant enough weight to equity broadly defined for that growth component.
但这确实对资产配置，以及这些资产类别预期回报率都产生了一些影响。
But it has had some impact on both the allocation and then what your expected return might be from those asset classes.
你们是怎么考虑整个投资组合的流动性问题的？
How have you thought about liquidity in the context of the whole portfolio?
我们非常重视这个问题。
We think about it so much.
科莉特教会了我们这一点：我们在这里的首要任务就是支持大学。
This is something Collette taught us very well, which is our number one purpose for being here is to support the college.
就是这样。
Period.
没得商量。
End of story.
我们能不能做到这一点，根本不存在疑问。
There is no question that that is what we need to be able to do.
流动性不足是绝对不能接受的。
Not having enough liquidity is not an option.
我们对流动性状况非常关注，换句话说，每周团队会议的核心议题之一就是它。
We obsess over our liquidity position by which I mean it is one of the key topics we cover every week as part of our team meeting.
我们每周都会仔细核对投资组合中每一笔进出的资金。
We are regularly going over every line item that comes in and out of the portfolio every week.
我们清楚未来十二个月每个资产类别的资金预测，以及钱会流向哪里。
We know what the forecast is for the next twelve months for every asset class and where the dollars are going.
更重要的是，我们明确知道资金将从哪里来支持学院的运作。
And importantly, where the money is gonna come from to support the college.
同时，我们也会定期对这些安排进行压力测试。
We're also, as part of that, stress testing it regularly.
我们还为投资办公室保留了高达一亿五千万美元的信贷额度。
We also maintain $150,000,000 worth of lines of credit for the investment office.
这些措施可以说是双重保障。
These are really belt and suspenders.
万一需要，我们还能动用这笔备用流动性资金。
But if we needed it, we would have a backup source of liquidity.
我们的资金已经全部投入了。
We're fully invested.
我们只把投资组合的12%保持在现金形式。
We only maintain between 12% of the portfolio in cash.
所以我们必须有计划地管理流动性。
That's why we have to be planful about our liquidity.
从长远来看，这其实是个很大的优势，因为这意味着资金一直在市场上运作。
That's a really important advantage long term because it means that the portfolio is in the markets and working.
像我们这样有11个人的团队，正好可以花时间仔细思考流动性问题：资金从哪里来，该怎么规划。
When you have a team of 11 people as we do here, one of the things that we can be spending time on and thinking about is liquidity and where is it going to come from and planning for it.
当我们把这一点当作优先事项时，就能实现双赢。
It becomes a win win when we make that a priority.
如果你回头看当初刚毕业时的投资方向——投资级债券和实物资产，现在对它们在组合中的作用，你的看法有什么变化吗？
If you go back to your original domains, post business school investment grade bonds and real assets, How's your thinking changed about their use in the portfolio?
变化太大了。
So much.
我刚刚在反思。
I was reflecting.
我记得那是2011年8月，美国信用评级被下调了。
I remember it was August 2011 when The US got downgraded.
当时我负责管理一个投资级固定收益组合。
I was managing an investment grade fixed income portfolio.
那是我第一次真正慌了。
That was my first moment of panic.
糟了。
Oh, no.
我本该知道这对组合意味着什么。
I'm probably supposed to know what this is going to mean for the portfolio.
那事儿发生在周五晚上。
It happened on a Friday night.
我记得整个周末都待在办公室，拼命琢磨这事儿会对我们的组合造成什么影响。
I remember being in the office all weekend trying to figure out what is this going to mean for our portfolio.
结果发现，其实影响并不大。
It turns out it didn't mean much.
我们在投资级固定收益这块经历了一段挺有意思的起伏过程。
We've been on an interesting episodic journey with investment grade fixed income.
我想大概在2019年的时候，我们就完全退出了这个品类。
It came out of the portfolio entirely, I think, in 2019.
我们对利率走势不做预测。
We don't take a view on interest rates.
这一点特别关键。
That's really important.
但我们委员会里有位同事常这么说：利率上涨的可能性，比下跌要大得多。
But as one of our committee members likes to say, there was a higher probability that rates were gonna go up than they were going to go down.
这不叫预测利率走势。
It's not having a view.
这叫搞清楚各种可能性的大小。
It's understanding what the probabilities are.
大概一年前，当利率从零开始回升时，我们又重新少量介入了，但仓位依然不大。
We did reintroduce it about a year ago as rates came off of zero, but it's still a modest position.
它在我们投资组合里只占1%，就是为应对突发情况准备的。
It's 1% position in our portfolio and it's meant to be that rainy day.
现在它已经不是我们主要的操作部分了。
It's not a big piece of what we do anymore.
以前在固定收益的黄金时期，它可是占到投资组合的10%。
It used to be 10% of the portfolio back in fixed income heyday.
所以变化真的很大。
So it's changed a lot.
至于实物资产，情况也类似。
And then real assets, similarly.
我们不再专门投资油气开采类基金了。
We no longer do funds dedicated to the extraction of oil and gas.
在这种背景下，如何管理实物资产组合，必须跟着调整和演进。
What does it mean to manage a real assets portfolio in that context has had to change and evolve.
我们还在摸索这个问题。
We're still trying to figure that out.
我坚信这一点。
I'm a believer.
我亲眼见过这个资产类别长期表现良好。
I've seen that asset class work over time.
它确实能为投资组合带来很好的分散效果。
It can be really diversifying for a portfolio.
我们并没有放弃这个策略。
We are not abandoning the strategy.
我们必须认真思考，它在当今环境下究竟意味着什么。
We have had to be thoughtful about what it means in today's context.
我们有几位管理人是我们很认可的。
We have a couple managers that we like.
我们现在主要投向电力、一些可再生能源基础设施，还有类似的方向，这些领域我们非常看好。
We're doing things in power, some renewable infrastructure, and things of that nature, which we're really excited about.
我们还得继续探索，弄清楚它到底该怎么做。
We have to keep pushing and figuring out what it means.
你刚接任首席投资官的时候，和你之前准备时想象的有什么不一样吗？
Once you came into the CIO seat, what was different from what you thought in all the preparation that you had going in?
最让我有同感的一点，是当了父母之后的感受——别人再怎么跟你描述，或者你自己觉得已经懂了，
One of the things that reminded me the most of was becoming a parent Because it's the kind of thing where people can tell you what it's going to be like or you think you know what it's going to be like.
但真有人把孩子交到你手里，说‘这是你的了’，那种现实完全不一样。
The reality of it is still entirely different when somebody hands you a child and says, this is yours.
祝你好运。
Good luck.
我也觉得自己挺幸运的，因为对投资组合我很熟悉。
I also felt fortunate that I knew the portfolio.
对我们的委员会也很了解。
I knew our committee.
对学校的情况也清楚。
I knew the college.
对团队更是了如指掌。
And I knew the team.
我还是觉得，天啊，这完全是全新的、不一样的体验。
I still felt like, oh, wow, this is new and different.
我很佩服那些接手这个职位时却没有这些背景的人。
I'm impressed with people who take on the seat and don't have all of that context.
到了一天结束的时候，真正承担责任的那个人是你，这感觉完全不同。
It is different when at the end of the day, you are the person with whom the responsibility sits.
刚开始的时候，特别有挑战性的一点是，涌向你的决定实在太多了，不过后来你慢慢就学会应对了。
Early on, one of the things that becomes challenging, but you eventually learn to deal with is the number of decisions that come your way.
有些决定微不足道。
Some of them are teeny tiny.
有些则非常重要。
Some of them are really big.
在初期，哪怕是最小的决定，也会让你觉得影响重大，因为你感觉你正在树立期望、奠定方向、建立流程。
And everything in between early on, even the smallest decision can feel very consequential because you feel like you're establishing the expectations, the path, the process.
你得反复琢磨每一件事，真的很累人。
You think about things a lot and it's exhausting.
到最后，你已经把路铺好了。
Eventually, you've set the path.
那些小决定不再那么压人了，你也能开始专注在大事上。
Some of those little decisions weigh on you a lot less and you can start to focus on the big ones.
别人可以告诉你事情会怎样发展。
Somebody can tell you that that's how it's gonna be.
但真正把这份责任扛在肩上，感觉是不一样的。
The reality of having to hold that on your shoulders is different.
如果从‘通过犯错来学习’这个角度回头看，你觉得刚加入CIOC时犯过哪些错？
If you put the lens back on of learning by making mistakes, what are some of the mistakes you think you made coming into the CIOC?
我不太想说那是错误。
I don't wanna say it's a mistake.
这其实是我想感谢我们现任投资委员会主席的一条建议，他特别棒，叫内特·斯利珀。
It's a piece of advice that I will credit to our current investment committee chair who's amazing, Nate Sleeper.
我当时纠结的是，既要尊重过往的传统，又要明白他们之所以想提拔内部人选，正是因为认可眼下正在发生的变化。
One of the things that I was wrestling with was this tension between respecting our history and understanding that part of the reason that they were interested in promoting an internal candidate was they liked what was happening.
我也是这么想的。
I did too.
我们之前的成绩很不错。
We had a great track record.
你怎么在尊重这一切的同时，留下自己的印记，按自己的方式做事？
How do you stay respectful to all of that yet make your mark and do things your way?
这两者之间的张力，以及如何找到合适的平衡点。
The tension between the two and what's the right balance.
这个问题没有标准答案。
There's no right answer to that.
你得慢慢摸索着去感受。
You have to feel your way through that.
我记得曾经对内特说过，如果我做事太快了，你能不能提醒我？
I remember saying at one point to Nate, if I'm going too fast with anything, will you tell me if that's the case?
他说，我觉得你不太可能会太快。
He said, I don't think that's gonna be the case.
很可能，三年后你回看现在，会后悔没早点做这些事。
More likely than not, you're gonna look back at where you are after three years and say, gosh, I wish I had done some of these things sooner.
再过几天就到七月一日了，正好三年，我现在对我们的现状特别满意。
As I'm coming up to July 1 will be three years, I'm so happy with where we sit today.
就连我们已经做过的一些事，如果当初能再快一点，那就更好了。
Even some of the things that we have done, if we could only have done that even faster, that would have been great.
这不一定是错的。
It's not necessarily a mistake.
你得花点时间，慢慢建立起信心。
You have to have some time to build your confidence.
我不确定，如果重来一遍，我能不能做得不一样。
I don't know that I could have gone back and done it differently.
按你自己的方式做事，没什么不对。
It's okay to do things the way that you wanna do them.
你现在觉得，有哪些事要是当初能再快一点推进就好了？
What are some examples of things you now say, I wish I knew to move a little faster?
我们当时在流程中采用的一些技术，其实本可以更快推进，尤其是现在有了人工智能。
Some of the technology that we adapted within the process, we could have done even faster and certainly now with AI.
我现在最关心的就是，怎么把握好这个节奏。
Top of mind for me because I'm trying to figure out how do we do that at the right speed.
我们对投资组合做了一些调整，当时都特别谨慎。
There's some changes to the portfolio that we were careful about making.
我还想再对投资组合做几处调整。
There are a couple more changes to the portfolio that I'd like to make.
我心里有时候会想，要是早一个季度甚至两个季度做就好了。
Part of me wishes we had done it a quarter or two earlier.
我们来聊聊
Let's ask
你带团队的事。
you about running a team.
你之前提到过，很早就负责过分析师项目，也想带人。
You mentioned early on being in charge of an analyst program and wanting to manage people.
现在有几位新来的资深同事加入了。
Now you've got a couple of newer senior people come in.
你是怎么看待带领团队、培养下属的呢？
How do you think about being a leader of a team and training people in the business?
这真是我最喜欢的工作部分之一。
It's one of my favorite parts of the job.
我们这儿有一支非常出色的团队。
We have an amazing team here.
聪明、敬业、专注。
Smart, dedicated, focused.
对我来说，最大的挑战是如何保持对他们的价值，真正为团队的流程添砖加瓦。
It is a really interesting challenge for me to figure out how do I stay relevant to them and value add to the process.
我逐渐意识到，我时间的价值在于能更宏观地思考整个业务组合。
One of the things that I've come to realize that is valuable about my time is the opportunity to be able to think more broadly about the portfolio.
我的比喻是，像清雪车一样，赶在别人起床前上街，先把团队打算走的路都提前检查一遍，确保道路畅通，他们能毫无阻碍地全速前进。
My analogy is that it's being a snowplow, getting out on the streets before everybody else is awake, making sure that the streets that you think your team is gonna wanna go down, you've had a chance to just check out and make sure they're clear, that they can run as fast as they wanna run.
你希望他们能在这条路上顺利前行。
You're happy for them to be on those roads.
你已经提前探过路了。
You've gone around the corner.
同时，你还要回头看看，确认该完成的事都办妥了，确保大家一直朝着正确的方向前进。
At the same time, you're running back to the rear too and making sure I did everything that I thought was getting done, keep moving forward in the right direction.
我们非常重视人才的培养。
We value the opportunity to develop talent.
我们的第一个专属分析师项目始于2010年。
Our first dedicated analyst program started back in 2010.
我们还在校园里开设了冬季研习班。
We also have a winter study class we teach on campus.
我们还通过投资办公室运营一个暑期实习项目。
We also have a summer internship program that we run through the Investment Office.
到现在，已经有超过150名学生参与过我们这三个项目中的至少一个，这真的很了不起。
We now have over 150 students that have participated between one of our three programs, which is amazing.
我们喜欢说，自己做的饭自己吃。
We like to say we eat our own cooking.
我们相信年轻人的潜力。
We believe in young talent.
我们希望参与培养未来的人才，无论是通过分析师项目，还是更广泛地支持投资团队中更有经验的成员。
We want to be part of developing people for the future, whether it's programmatically with our analysts or more broadly with more experienced members of our investment team.
我们特别擅长与人一对一地沟通。
What we're very good about is communicating on a one on one basis with people.
你对什么感兴趣？
What is it that you're interested in?
我们怎么才能让你的学习曲线一直保持陡峭？
How can we make sure that your learning curve stays steep?
如果感觉曲线开始平缓了，我们还能做些什么来重新提升它？
And if it's feeling like it's flattening, what else can we do to help make sure that we're steepening it again?
我花很多时间和团队成员交流，定期跟进进展，我们还有一个严格的绩效和管理流程。
I spend a lot of time with members of our team, check ins, updates, and we have a rigorous performance process, management process.
这些好的做法，我们都尽力做到位。
All of those good practices, we try to do well by them.
如果回看十六年前开始参加这个项目的150个人，现在他们一般都在行业里什么位置？
If you look back at the 150 people that have been through this program starting what sixteen years ago, where are they in the industry generally speaking?
遍布各处。
All over.
几年前我们做过一次分析，该更新了。
We did this analysis a couple of years ago and I should update it.
当时的数据表明，大约一半的人留在资产管理领域，广义上说，另一半则去做了其他了不起的事，这同样很棒。
At the time, our data told us about 50% of them stay in asset management, broadly defined, and 50% go on to do other amazing things, which is fantastic too.
留下来的那部分人，很多去了其他有限合伙人机构，这让我们有机会和他们保持联系，挺好的。
The 50% that stay are at other LPs, which is fun for us to get to network with them.
有些人去了其他普通合伙人公司，这对我们来说也很有帮助，也很有意思。
Some of them are at other GPs, which again is useful and interesting to us.
你如何看待和皮尔斯之间的合作与竞争关系？
How do you think about the blend of cooperation and competition with Pierce?
我们更倾向于合作的方向。
We tend to lean more on the cooperative side.
我们不会故意把别人挡在外面，别人也不会把我们拒之门外。
It's not as if we are going to block somebody out from an opportunity or they're going to block us out.
即使投资金额不大，我们也能发挥重要作用。
We can still be meaningful at a reasonable check size.
我们很清楚，团队规模很小。
We're cognizant of the fact that we are a small team.
我们七个投资人员要覆盖全球的投资机会。
We're seven investment people covering the global opportunity set.
只要能从别人的视角中获益，我们很乐意听取他们的意见和建议。
When we can benefit from another person's perspective, we are happy to take the input, the advice.
这不是单向的付出。
That's not a one way street.
你得愿意分享才行。
You have to be willing to share.
在边际上，我们更倾向于合作，向别人的经验学习。
On the margin, we would prefer to be cooperative, learn from other people's experiences.
我们也有竞争意识，毕竟要为威廉姆斯创造优异的回报，也清楚自己在同行中的位置。
We're competitive in that we wanna produce an excellent return for Williams, and we know how that stacks up relative to our peers.
我们希望业绩看起来漂亮。
We want it to look great.
但我们也相信，通过合作同样能做到这一点。
We also believe we can do that with some cooperation.
你们都采取了哪些
What are some
方式来提升回报，而不仅仅是依赖传统的模式——找一批经理人并长期合作？
of the ways you've tried to enhance returns beyond the core structure of find a bunch of managers and stay with them for a long time?
过去几年，我们一直在探索过去没怎么涉足的市场领域。
One of the things that we have been doing over the last few years is exploring areas of the market where we hadn't historically participated.
很多不同领域都有非常优秀的人才。
There are talented people in so many different areas.
别太固执于哪些方法有效、哪些无效，保持开放心态，也许我们在过去没涉足的地方能找到新机会，值得重新去看看。
Not being too dogmatic about what works and what doesn't work, being open minded that we may find things in places that historically we hadn't and let's go revisit those.
这为我们带来了不少新机会。
That has opened up a lot of opportunity for us.
我们依然可以沿用找顶尖管理人的那套方法。
We can still use the playbook of go find best in class managers.
这一点没变。
That has not changed.
但如果你在执行这套方法时，意识到可操作的领域已经扩大了——因为我们愿意尝试不同策略，这就创造了新的机会。
But if as part of that playbook, you say the areas in which you can do that have expanded because we're open to different kinds of strategies, that creates opportunity.
在你们用技术搭建基础模块的过程中，
As you built out building blocks blocks with technology,
你们接下来打算怎么运用人工智能？
how are you thinking about the next leg with AI?
我们正乐在其中，认真思考这个挑战。
As We're having so much fun thinking about this challenge.
我们能有这样一支对技术持开放态度的团队，真的很幸运。
Really lucky that we have a team that is open minded about what technology can bring to our process.
我觉得我们一定会以一种非常令人兴奋的方式找到答案。
So I think we're gonna figure this out in a really exciting way.
我们现在处于尽可能多学习的阶段。
We are in a place of learning as much as we can.
技术变化太快了，与其现在就下大注、做重大投入或彻底改造流程，不如等上一个季度——那时候可用的工具可能完全不一样，甚至好上十倍。
The technology is changing so quickly that in some ways it feels premature to put a big stake in the ground and make some big investment or process change when in a quarter from now, the tools that are available to us could look entirely different or 10 times better.
我们目前是在不彻底推翻现有体系的前提下进行试验。
We are experimenting right now without fundamentally redoing things.
我们的团队对各种新想法都很感兴趣，正在探索如何让这些做法显得切实可行。
Our team is eager about lots of new ideas, figuring out how do we do things that feel reasonable.
同时，我觉得我们也不必非得站在最前沿去探索一切新东西。
At the same time, I don't think we need to be quite on the bleeding edge of discovering everything.
这种风险我们没必要去冒，但我们也绝对不能落后。
That's a risk we don't need to be taking, but we cannot afford to be slow.
找到这个平衡点还挺有意思的。
Finding that happy medium has been fun.
这还是我们今年团队的核心目标之一，每年夏天我们会花两天时间，把全年的目标和方向都列出来。
And it's a project one of our key goals and objectives for the team for this year, we have a two day process in the summer where we set out all our goals and objectives for the year.
团队里有几个不同的小组，各自聚焦在人工智能的不同方向上。
We have multiple different working groups across the team that are focused on different themes within AI.
每个人至少参与一个小组，有些人还参与了多个。
Everybody on the team is on at least one team, if not more.
我们不能让任何人掉队。
We cannot leave anybody behind.
我们定期开会，交流工作进展、学到的经验，还有该尝试什么，彼此分享很多心得。
We meet regularly to talk about work streams, progress, what we're learning, and what we should be trying, sharing a lot of insights.
挺有意思的。
It's fun.
很有意思。
It's interesting.
这让人很兴奋。
It's exciting.
我们还没找到答案，但正在努力探索。
I don't think we have the answer yet, but we're working on it.
到目前为止，你们发现了什么？
What have you found so far?
最明显的应用场景是大语言模型，它们能帮助我们更快地熟悉某个行业，提升尽职调查的效率。
The obvious use case is the LLMs and their ability to help enhance our diligence processes to get up to speed more quickly on a particular sector.
最近我和我的大语言模型聊了一次，讨论了私人信贷领域的现状、潜在风险，以及我们该向收购管理团队提出哪些关键问题。
I had a really interesting conversation recently with my LLM on what was going on in private credit, where the risks were, and how we really should be thinking about the questions we need to be talking, for example, to our buyout managers about.
这次对话对我帮助很大，让我为接下来的会谈做好了准备。
That was really helpful for me, preparing me for some conversations.
我给你讲个有趣的事，关于我今天和你聊天前的准备。
I'll share a funny story about preparing for the conversation with you today.
这个周末我时间太紧，没来得及临时抱佛脚。
I didn't have a lot of time this weekend to cram.
我做了一件事，就是挑了你之前采访的几位我特别敬佩的CIO的播客，跟它说：这周我要跟泰德谈话了。
One of the things that I was able to do was take a handful of the podcasts that you've done with other CIOs that I admire, said to it, I'm gonna be talking to Ted this week.
帮我准备一下吧。
I need your help preparing.
这是他过去的一些访谈例子。
Here's some examples of interviews he's done in the past.
你能跟我模拟一次采访吗？
Can you practice an interview with me?
这对我今天跟你的对话帮助特别大。
It was extremely effective in helping prepare me for this conversation today.
这类应用场景，我们还会继续探索。
Those are the kinds of use cases that we will continue to pursue.
最近有人发现，它在推荐非公开资料方面特别在行。
Somebody discovered recently that it's great at suggesting off sheet references.
我们就是通过输入‘我们正在调研这家公司’，找到了不少优质的非公开资料。
We found some really good off sheet references by saying this is who we're doing diligence on.
我认识的人里，你觉得我该找谁聊聊？
Who in my network would you talk to?
这些就是一些例子。
Those are examples.
我觉得这些不算革命性的突破，但我们已经在用了，而且挺兴奋的。
I don't think they're revolutionary, but we're using it and we're excited.
LLM告诉你，我可能会问你哪些最有趣的问题？
What were the most intriguing questions that the LLM told you I was going to ask you?
它没告诉我什么特别有趣的问题。
It didn't tell me intriguing questions.
它挺擅长总结你的谈话风格的。
It was good at summarizing your style.
泰德说话特别自然，很会开个头，然后一步步深入追问。
Ted is very conversational, very good at asking an opening question and then probing deeper.
他还特别喜欢听故事。
He also loves anecdotes.
你提供的例子越生动，你的回答就越有说服力。
So the more you can give colorful examples, that makes your answers more powerful.
感觉就像有个演讲教练一直陪着我。
It felt like I had a presentation coach with me.
把这些都整合起来，长远来看，对你来说成功是什么样子、什么感觉？
When you bring this all together, what does success look and feel like to you over time?
很简单。
Pretty simple.
就是为学院赚钱。
It's making money for the college.
就是为威廉姆斯学院做得特别出色。
It's doing a great job for Williams.
这绝对是我们的核心目标。
That is absolutely our North Star.
我们希望能取得优异的业绩。
We wanna put up strong performance.
我们对自己在这里做的事非常较真。
We are competitive about what we're doing here.
这对学院来说至关重要。
It's important to the college.
我们都深深认同学院的使命和它正在做的工作。
We're all big believers in the mission and the work that the college is doing.
未来几年，你打算重点推动哪些方面来实现这个目标？
What are you hoping to lean into over the next couple years to make that happen?
要理解我们的职责，从宏观角度去思考我们该做什么，确实让人感到压力很大。
It can be daunting to understand our mandate and to think about it in big picture terms, what we need to be able to do.
每当我被手头的任务压得喘不过气时，最好的办法就是回到眼前：今天我们能做点什么来靠近这个目标？
Whenever I get daunted by the task at hand, the best thing for me to do is come back to, well, what is it that we can do today to work towards that goal?
每天准时到场，和一群优秀的同事并肩工作，做出明智的决定，充分讨论，反复核对，全力以赴。
Showing up every day, getting to work beside a great team, and making good decisions, talking everything through, double checking our work, hustling.
这个团队完全有能力做到这些，但最终带来出色成果的，还是日复一日的踏实努力。
This team is well positioned to do all of that, but it is just gonna be the accumulation of hard work day in and day out that is gonna lead to great results.
不可能会有什么神奇的解决方案、资产类别或者经理人，能一下子解决所有问题。
There isn't gonna be some magic bullet or asset class or manager that we're gonna come across that's gonna be the answer to it all.
真正起作用的，是日复一日的出色工作积累起来的效果。
It's gonna be that compounding of great work.
阿比盖尔，我想趁最后问你几个问题。
Well, Abigail, I wanna make sure I get a chance to ask you a couple closing questions.
在问这些问题之前，我想跟你聊聊我们的一项战略投资。
Before we get to the closing questions, I wanna tell you about one of our strategic investments.
我们已经做了几项投资，每一项都在开发我们觉得对社区很有价值的产品或服务。
We've made a few and each are working on a product or service we think will be valuable to our community.
其中一个叫Oldwell Labs，简称OWL。
One is Oldwell Labs or OWL.
OWL是我见过的最棒的 allocator 用来寻找和追踪经理人的软件，我看过不少了。
OWL is the very best software I've seen for allocators to find and track managers, and I've seen a lot of them.
相信我，你一定值得花点时间看看。
Trust me, it'll be worth a look.
节目笔记里有个链接，你可以去看看更多详情。
There's a link in the show notes so you can learn more.
接下来是那几个收尾的问题。
And here are those closing questions.
除了工作和家庭之外，你最喜欢的爱好或活动是什么？
What is your favorite hobby or activity outside of work and family?
我的爱好都是和家人一起做的。
My hobbies are done in conjunction with my family.
我有两个小孩。
I have two little kids.
他们都在学小提琴。
They are Suzuki violinists.
我以前也拉小提琴。
I was a violinist.
我最喜欢的事之一，就是和他们一起练琴。
One of my favorite things is getting to practice with them.
并不是每次都好玩。
It's not always fun.
有时候我们也会掉眼泪。
There are sometimes our tears.
当我拿出小提琴，和他们一起演奏音乐的时候，那种感觉特别珍贵。
When I get to take out my violin and we get to play music together, it's special.
是什么让你们流泪呢？
What creates the tears?
每天都要练琴，可他们更想跑到外面操场上玩，或者看红袜队比赛。
You have to practice violin every day, and you'd rather be playing outside on the playground or watching the Red Sox.
八岁学乐器，真的不容易。
Learning an instrument when you're eight years old is hard.
我希望他们能从中学到这些人生道理。
These are the life lessons that I hope they learn from it.
坚持、自律，还有把大问题拆解成小部分来解决。
Consistency, discipline, and breaking down a problem into its components.
你收到过最好的建议是什么？
What's the best advice you ever received?
我桌上贴着一句话。
There's a quote that I have taped to my desk.
人生短暂，我们没多少时间可以浪费。
Life is short and we do not have much time.
所以赶紧去善良，迅速去爱。
So make haste to be kind and be swift to love.
你怎么把这句话带进办公室？
How do you bring that into the office?
就是看到并认可每个人作为人的价值。
It's the recognition, the appreciation of everybody's humanity.
这个团队每天都准时到岗，努力工作。
This is a team that shows up every day and works hard.
当我能看见他们完整的样子，他们才能把最好的自己带到工作中。
When I can see them as their whole selves, they can bring their best selves to work.
咱们一起能做出很棒的成绩。
We can do great work together.
好的。
Alright.
最后一个。
Last one.
你学到的最重要的生活教训是什么？要是早点明白就好了。
What life lesson have you learned that you wish you a lot earlier in life?
好好享受这段旅程吧。
Just enjoy the ride.
咱们的时间其实不多。
We don't have a lot of time.
我相信一切最终都会好起来的。
I'm a believer it's all gonna work out.
相信过程，事情总会找到解决的办法。
Trusting the process and that things do have a way of working out.
咱们能做这份工作真的很幸运，别忘了好好享受当下每一刻。
Let's enjoy what we get to do because we're really lucky to get to be here to get to do this job.
记住这一点特别重要。
Remembering that is really important.
阿比盖尔，非常感谢你抽出时间来参加。
Abigail, thanks so much for taking the time.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
和你聊天真的很愉快。
It's been such a pleasure.
非常感谢给我这个机会。
I really appreciate the opportunity.
感谢你收听本期节目。
Thanks for listening to the show.
如果你喜欢刚才的内容，欢迎访问我们的网站 capitalallocators.com，那里有往期节目、邮件订阅，还有付费内容等你来探索。
If you like what you heard, hop on our website at capitalallocators.com where you can access past shows, join our mailing list, and sign up for premium content.
保重，下次再聊。
Have a good one, and see you next time.
泰德和嘉宾在节目中表达的所有观点均为个人看法，不代表Capital Allocators或其公司的立场。
All opinions expressed by Ted and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of capital allocators or their firms.
本播客仅供信息参考，不应作为投资决策的依据。
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
Capital Allocators的客户或节目嘉宾可能持有本节目中讨论的证券。
Clients of capital allocators or podcast guests may maintain positions and securities discussed on this podcast.
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