One of Silicon Valley’s most powerful investors is now a media company, too

刷到不想刷了还找不到吃哪儿好？我也是。

If you're tired of endless scrolling to figure out where to eat, same.

我是Stephanie Wu，Eater的主编。

I'm Stephanie Wu, editor in chief of Eater.

我们刚推出了全新升级、体验更好的Eater应用。

We've just launched the new ish and way better Eater app.

里面收录了我们最爱的所有餐厅，无论你在哪，都能看到为你量身推荐的美食图片，搜索结果也更懂你的口味。

It has all the restaurants we love, gives you personalized pics wherever you are, and serves up smarter search results just for you.

你可以找到我在纽约最爱的马提尼和薯条店，收藏心仪的地点，分享清单，关注编辑，还能直接在App里订位。

You can find my list of the best places for martinis and fries in New York City, and save your favorite spots, share lists, follow editors, and book right in the app.

去eaterapp.com下载这个应用吧。

Download the app at eaterapp.com.

iOS用户免费下载。

It's free for iOS users.

真有人知道最高法院关门之后到底在搞什么吗？

Does anyone really know what goes on behind closed doors at the Supreme Court?

四年前，我得到一个关于最高法院的内幕消息，当时我根本没打算报这方面的新闻，但这个消息说的是法院内部发生的一场秘密施压行动。

Four years ago, I got a tip about the court, and I was not in the market to cover it whatsoever, but this tip was about a secret influence campaign that had been carried out inside the court.

你知道，这种事本身就已经令人震惊了。

As you know, the very idea of that is outrageous.

我是普里特·巴拉拉。

I'm Preet Bharara.

本周，《纽约时报》调查记者乔迪·坎托尔来和我聊聊她对最高法院‘影子案单’的深度调查。

And this week, New York Times investigative journalist Jodi Cantor joins me to discuss her expose on the court's shadow docket.

这期节目已经上线了。

The episode is out now.

去搜索并关注吧。

Search and follow.

无论你在哪个平台听播客，都别忘了继续关注普里特的节目。

Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts.

这里是《Recode Media》，主持人彼得·卡夫卡。

This is Recode Media with Peter Kafka.

说的就是我。

That is me.

我正在和安德森·霍洛维茨的玛吉特·韦恩马赫ers聊天。

I'm talking to Margit Wennmachers from Andreessen Horowitz.

欢迎你，玛吉特。

Welcome, Margit.

嗨，彼得。

Hey, Peter.

见到你真好。

It's good to see you.

好久没见了。

It's been a while.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实好久没见了。

It has been a while.

我的意思是，你懂的，就是那种带引号的‘见面’。

I mean, see you in air quotes, obviously.

我知道。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

不过我们迟早会当面见面的。

But we'll see you in person eventually.

玛吉特是被请来的。

Margit was brought in.

玛吉特是硅谷顶尖的公关人士，十多年前就开始在安德森·霍洛维茨工作，那是硅谷最重要的风投公司之一。

Margit was a big deal public relations person in Silicon Valley who's been working at Andreessen Horowitz, one of the Valley's most important VC firms, for more than a decade now.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以这家公司即将迎来成立12周年。

It's been so the firm is gonna be 12.

我第一年是作为他们的客户，之后这十一年我一直待在这家公司。

And I I spent the first year having them as client, and then it's been eleven years that I've been at the firm.

说你是负责传播的，这根本不够准确，因为你其实是这家公司的运营合伙人。

So describing you as a comms person is inadequate because you you are an operating partner there.

你承担的是战略性的角色。

You've picked strategic role.

你今天来这里，是因为你要推出一个将在科技和媒体圈引发广泛关注的项目。

And the reason you're here today is you're rolling out something that's gonna generate a lot of attention in the tech and media world.

那你能跟我们说说，这到底是什么？叫什么名字？

So why don't you tell us what that is and what it's called?

是的。

Yeah.

今天我们推出一个名为《未来》的新媒体平台，聚焦于未来本身，以及如何塑造未来、科技如何影响未来。

So we are launching today a media property called Future, and it is all about the future and how to build it and how technology shapes it.

这可以说是对我们多年做法的一次重大转变，但同时也是水到渠成的自然延伸。

And, this is basically kind of a radical departure, but also natural evolution of what we've been doing for years.

你知道，我们一直都在写博客，解释为什么投资某家公司。

As you know, we've always been blogging about, like, here's why we're investing in such and such company.

这不就是风投的常规操作吗？

That's your standard VC thing.

对吧？

Right?

我们以前总说，这家公司为什么厉害。

Here's why we here's why this company is great.

没错。

Yep.

接下来我们要做的是深度思想引领。

We're gonna do some thought leadership.

我觉得之前确实有几个人在这么做。

I think there were a few of us who did that.

比如弗雷德·威尔逊就一直写博客。

Like, Fred Wilson has always blogged.

对吧？

Right?

后来我们在这基础上又加了一层内容。

And then I think we sort of added a layer onto that.

接着就开始探讨公司建设，还有各种各样的话题。

And then we started to do things about company building and and all kinds of topics.

我们之所以要单独做一个品牌、单独设计风格，是因为想打开局面——毕竟我们这么大的团队，也不可能独占所有好点子和对未来的独到见解。

The reason we're doing a separate property with a separate brand and a separate look and feel is we wanna open it up Because as a 200 plus person firm, we certainly don't have a monopoly of all the good ideas and all the interesting takes on the future.

所以你接下来看到的这批文章，内容非常多元，既有我们团队的人，也有大量外部人士，大家都在谈跟未来相关、如何推动未来实现的有趣话题。

So this first batch of articles that you'll see is, you know, a wide variety, including a few folks from our firm, but a wide variety of folks outside the firm who are all talking about interesting things as they relate to the future and how to make it happen.

没错。

Right.

所以现在，就像你刚才说的，你们的合伙人和16z的员工们早就有了这方面的积累。

So right now, you you like you said, you've got a a history of of your partners and folks who work at at a 16 z.

我把它简称为‘条目’，这样更短更顺口。

I'll call it entries in shorter, easier.

不过你要是这么叫，还是得经常提一下原名。

Keep referencing though if you do that.

我知道。

I know.

我知道。

I know.

就是字少一点而已。

It's just shorter.

不好意思，本。

Sorry, Ben.

我在这档节目里多次提到过克里斯·迪克森关于NFT和一千个铁杆粉丝的文章。

I I referenced Chris Dixon writing about NFTs and a thousand true fans a lot on this show.

我觉得这特别有意思。

I think it's really interesting.

所以这算是常规做法，但不同的是，这是一个独立出版物。

So that's sort of standard, and what's different here is this is a stand alone publication.

你邀请了外部作者来参与。

You're bringing in outside contributors.

这些作者会是谁呢？

Who are those contributors gonna be?

会是一群背景各异的作者。

Well, so it'll be a variety of contributors.

我们确实希望有知名人士，但更看重那些在特定领域非常有见解、能提出独特观点的人。

We're we're essentially looking for, yes, big names, but we're looking for people who are very, very smart on a particular topic and are making an argument about it.

我们有一位女士，我肯定把她的名字念错了，她会写关于古生物学，以及过去如何帮助构建未来的内容。

So we'll have we have this woman, I'm butchering her name, I'm sure, but she's gonna write about paleo paleobiology and how the past can help build the future.

这种视角非常特别，我们公司里根本没人能提供这样的观点。

This is, like, very unusual, and there's just not anyone in the firm who would have that particular take.

但我们也会邀请一些普通的首席执行官之类的人参与。

But we'll also include sort of regular CEO types and whatnot.

随着团队逐步扩大，我们会全职聘用一些人，同时也会保留一些常驻撰稿人，并给予他们报酬。

And then, you know, as we build out the team, we are gonna hire people who are there full time, but we'll also have regular contributors who will be compensated.

一家资金雄厚的公司想发布有关自身及其关注议题的信息，以此来影响公众观点，这并不是什么新点子。

So a well funded company that wants to put out information about itself and things that it's interested in because it wants to help shape opinion is not a new idea.

对吧？

Right?

我们管这叫内容营销。

You've we call that content marketing.

大公司早就以各种形式这么做了。

Big companies have done this in various forms for a long time.

但你们的做法不一样，这个举动引起了更多关注。

But it's you guys, and this move is generating a lot more attention.

你有没有想过，为什么大家会对这件事这么感兴趣？

Do you wanna do you wanna give me your theory of why you think people are paying attention to this

我觉得一般人都是以自我为中心的。

I think people in general are self referential.

他们总会想，这跟我有什么关系？你为什么要这样对我？

So they think about, like, what does this mean for me, and why are you doing this to me?

或者干脆就觉得，这跟我没什么关系。

Or it's just kinda, like, not what I'm doing.

我觉得我们的内容之所以有意思，恕我直言，是因为我们站的位置挺特别的。

I think the reason our content, if I might say so, is interesting is because we have this pretty interesting perch.

我们投资的领域非常广，涵盖加密货币、生物科技、金融科技、房地产、消费、社交和企业服务，企业服务里面还分好多细分方向。

We invest in a wide variety of things between crypto and bio and fintech and real estate and consumer and social and enterprise, and there's buckets within enterprise.

所以我们的内容不仅种类丰富，而且有深度，因为我们公司内外都有顶尖的思考者，这让内容特别有看头。

So that makes the variety of content and sort of the depth because we have first rate thinkers in the firm and outside, I think, pretty interesting.

这也让你们说的内容营销更容易做，因为我们不是只卖一个产品的企业。

And that's that makes it easier to pull off what you call content marketing because it's not a one product company.

苹果肯定也有很棒的内容，但那基本上就围绕着iPhone、iPad这些产品。

You know, Apple, I'm sure, has fantastic content, but it's about the iPhone and the iPad and and whatnot.

对吧？

Right?

而我们呢，只是拥有这种丰富的多样性。

Whereas we we just have this interesting variety.

至于反应嘛，你说呢？

As to the reaction, I mean, you tell me.

我猜你肯定有某种反应吧。

You're you're on you're you're having a reaction, I am assuming.

我确实有反应。

I'm having the reaction.

没错。

Yes.

我根据 podcast 上的嘉宾不同，会站在不同的立场上看待这件事。

I I I I played both sides of this, depending on who's on the podcast here.

你听到的其他人，包括上过这个播客的杰西卡·莱森，都说这很令人担忧——一家实力雄厚、在硅谷人脉广泛的风投公司。

I so the the the what you hear from other folks, including Jessica Lessen, who's been on this podcast, says this is very concerning to see, a very powerful VC firm with with connections throughout the valley.

而且你知道，科技正在吞噬一切，现在什么东西都跟科技沾边，这根本不是什么行业内的普通新闻。

And, you know, tech is eating everything, so everything is tech, so this isn't just an industry trade story.

自己搞媒体、雇记者、绕开传统渠道，这才是真正让人担忧的地方——记者原本该承担的向公众传递信息的角色。

Creating its own media outlet, hiring journalists, and cutting out this is the major concern, the role that journalists traditionally play in providing information to the public.

所以我们可以理解，你们为什么会觉得：瞧，你们和你们公司已经被好几篇报道刷屏了，大家总在引用一句话，说安德森·霍洛维茨本质上是个挂着风投外壳的媒体公司。

So we can imagine why you guys would think, well, here, there's been a bunch of profiles of you and the firm, and there's quote everyone keeps referencing that Andreessen Horowitz is essentially a media company with sort of a venture firm attached.

你们算得上是一家媒体公司吗？

Is it fair to call you guys a media company?

说实话，我们目前根本没靠这些内容赚钱。

Look, we don't obviously monetize our media efforts.

也许将来某天我们会这么做。

Maybe we will at some point in the future.

所以我觉得，称我们是媒体公司并不合适。

So I don't think we should be called a media company.

我们确实产出大量内容，但我觉得挺有意思的是，有人居然为此感到愤怒——可别忘了，这可是个自由的国家，至少我印象里是这样。

We produce a lot of content, and I think the you know, I sort of what I find fascinating is sort of there's a there's a slight tinge of outrage, and, like, it's a free country last I checked.

我们确实能制作内容。

Like, we we can produce content.

任何人都能制作内容。

Anyone can produce produce content.

我们认为——我觉得这点没错——有一大类内容其实非常有用、非常重要，但目前没人好好做。

We think, and I I think I'm right about this, is there's a whole bucket of content that is actually really, really useful and important that is not covered.

所以我们瞄准的就是这个方向。

So that's what we're aiming at.

我们不是要做新闻、新闻分析，或者政治这类东西。

We're not looking at doing news or news analysis or, you know, politics or whatever.

我们的目标是那些对科技感兴趣的人，还有实际参与其中的人。

We are basically we're riding towards the tech curious and towards the participant.

如果我在一家公司上班，我就得搞清楚开源的商业模式到底是怎么运作的。

So if I have a job at a company, I need to actually figure out how open source business models work.

那我该去哪儿找这些信息呢？

Like, where am I likely to find that?

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Right.

而且这些听起来都太平淡了。

And and that all sounds anodyne.

对吧？

Right?

事实上，主流媒体对这些技术原理的解释通常都更笼统。

And the truth is you are gonna get less detailed explanations of of of how some of this technology works in mainstream media.

没错。

Right.

传统上，主流记者会联系你、你的合作伙伴，或者你们投资的公司，邀请他们作为报道的信源。

And, traditionally, a a a mainstream reporter would reach out to you or your partners or their portfolio companies and ask them to be sources in a story about them.

那为什么这样还不够呢？

Why isn't that adequate?

你为什么想直接发布，而不是让媒体先做一层报道呢？

Why why do you want to go direct instead of having a layer of of journalism on top of

我不确定你怎么想，但我为什么要让别人来定义别人对我的看法呢？

I don't know about you, but, like, why would I outsource, like, what information what people think of me to some other third party?

我凭什么要把这件事交给第三方来做？

Like, why in the world would I do that?

第三方确实非常重要，如果你在考虑媒体传播，那就得和他们互动，就像我现在跟你对话一样。

I think the third parties are very, very important, and it's important to engage with the third parties if you're thinking about media and, like, I'm talking to you right now.

对。

Mhmm.

但为什么第三方的解读就该是最终版本呢？

But why would that be the last work on on anything?

为什么我不该自己先说一遍呢？

Why don't I get to have my own go, like, okay.

这是我们自己的看法。

Here's what we think.

你年初那篇宣布这件事的博客文章最后一句说，我们要成为所有从事科技、制造科技或对科技感兴趣的人，理解并塑造未来的首选之地。

The last line of your blog post announcing this in broad strokes from earlier in the year, we want to be the go to place for understanding and building the future for anyone who is building, making, or curious about tech.

这句话其实就像个墨迹测验，对吧？

And that really seems like a Rorschach test of a line, right?

因为你们在向我们展示——这是我们对未来的看法。

Because you presented us, this is us presenting our view of the future.

我们是最有信息优势的。

We are the most informed.

我们会把这一切呈现给你。

We're going to present it to you.

这并不是出于善意。

It's not altruism.

背后当然有动机，但我们相信这是对的。

There's a motive behind it, but we think this is correct.

如果你是别人，你可能会想：哦，这是一群掌握巨大权力、财富和影响力的人，现在他们要来告诉你世界是怎么运行的，未来是什么样子，甚至直接定义什么是‘未来’。

And if you're somebody else, you go, oh, this is the people with enormous power and money, influence, saying, we're now gonna be the ones telling you how the world works, what the future is like, what's literally called the future.

另外，背景情况是，马克·安德森——那位曾经频繁出现在媒体上、经常接受记者专访、热衷参加各种会议、大量发推文的联合创始人之一——一直公开表达他对媒体的轻蔑。

And in addition, just the backdrop here is you had Marc Andreessen, one of the two the two founding partners who used to be someone who was appeared in the press a lot and talked to journalists a lot, came on conferences a lot, tweeted a lot, has been quite open about his contemptuousness about the press.

有一段时间，这还挺有意思。

And for a while, that was entertaining.

但他现在基本上把我们很多人都屏蔽了。

He's basically cut a lot of us out.

他确实在推特上拉黑了我们不少人。

He's literally blocked us all, many of us on Twitter.

Clubhouse 这个平台，是安德森·霍洛维茨投资的。

Clubhouse, Andreessen Horowitz funded, platform.

他经常在上面长篇大论地发表观点。

He's on that a lot holding forth.

如果你被他在推特上拉黑了，我不确定他是自动屏蔽的，还是真有人工在判断：你不能再关注马克在 Clubhouse 上的动态了。

If you if he has blocked you on Twitter, I don't know if he's done it automatically or if he's got actual human being saying that you you can no longer follow Mark in the clubhouse.

这样一来，你实际上是在切断人们获取信息的渠道，我想这正是部分人不满的根源。

So you're cutting people off from access to information in some ways, and I think that's where some of the resentment comes from.

你看啊。

Well, look.

我可没把任何人挡在外面。

I'm not cutting anybody off.

事实上，我们还会产出更多内容，而且会更容易接触到。

And in fact, we're gonna produce more content, and it's gonna be more accessible.

就是这么回事。

That that's just the thing.

你从我的角度看一看。

Like, look at it from my point of view.

我是个商人。

I'm a business person.

我有我的工作要做，其实就两件事。

I have a job to do, and there's basically two jobs.

第一件事，是推动未来的发展，同时向大家说明白：我们对未来的看法到底是什么？

The job job one is to help advance the future, right, and and help explain ourselves to, like, how how what do we think the future holds?

科技是怎么影响这一切的？

How does technology shape it?

如果我把这事做好了，那些创业者和想为创业者工作的人觉得‘这些人真懂我’，那你愿意把钱交给谁？

And then, of course, if I do that job well and the entrepreneurs and the people who wanna work for the entrepreneurs think, these people get me, then whose money would you rather take?

对吧？

Right?

所以我现在做的就是这个。

So that that is what I'm doing.

对吧？

Right?

这并不是出于回应。

So there's no it's not in reaction.

也不是在反对什么别的东西。

It's not in in opposition to anything else.

但好像很多人就是很难接受这一点。

And it seems like people have a very hard time kind of buying into that.

对。

Yeah.

我是说，我通常不太感兴趣。

I mean, I generally am not very interested.

我的一些在新闻界和科技圈的朋友都挺失望的，因为我根本不想去争论记者和硅谷之间的裂痕。

It's disappointing to some of my friends in both journalism and attack that I don't wanna have debates about the the rift between journalists and and and Silicon Valley.

简单来说就是，报道硅谷的媒体，包括我自己，在很长一段时间里都持非常正面的态度，而现在他们有点矫枉过正，变得非常怀疑了。

I think the short version is, journalism the the the press that covered Silicon Valley, including myself, were generally very positive for a very long time, and they've now sort of overcorrected and are much more skeptical.

我觉得这两种方式都有好的一面。

And I think both, there's a good version in both approaches.

但我确实认为，像马克那样的人似乎对媒体非常反感，真正让人担心的是看到有人公开大声说，这帮人都是傻瓜。

But I do think that, again, you you you have people like Mark who seem to have real distaste for the press, and I think that is what's worrying is seeing someone who is actively and and loudly saying, these guys are fools.

他们就是蠢。

They're idiots.

他们根本不懂。

They don't get it.

说我要亲自上阵，成为大家首选的信息来源。

Saying, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna be the go to source.

我觉得这才是让人担忧的地方。

And I think that's the worrying thing for people.

是的。

Yeah.

你好像希望我替马克试着说话，但我不会这么做，因为……

It feels like you want me to channel Mark, which I'm not gonna do because

你不是。

You're no.

你的职责恰恰是别替马可说话，

Your job your job is often to to unchannel Mark,

他是他自己的人，他能自己表达。

like, I he's his own person, and he can speak for himself.

不过我要说，当年媒体问‘你们估值多少？’的时候，我其实并不认同那种做法。

I will say, though, you know, I didn't agree with when media was like, what's your valuation?

因为这是关于一家公司最重要、最有意义的信息，就这么简单。

Because of the most meaningful piece of information about a company, like, period.

这会严重影响人们的心理。

And it messes with people's psychology.

对。

Mhmm.

然后大家就开始问：你们最近到底干了些什么？

So and then from that, it's like, what have you assholes done lately?

你可以骂我很多事，但我可不是傻子。

So, you know, you can call me a lot of things, but, like, I'm not an idiot.

那些一上来就问‘你什么时候不再爱你老婆了’的对话，我根本不感兴趣。

So, like, engaging in a lot of those conversations that start with when did you stop being your wife, Not interested in that.

参与这种对话，比如突然问一句：

Engaging and like, hey.

你最近在忙什么？

What are you doing?

我该怎么看待这家公司呢？

How should I think about this company?

你觉得加密货币到底是怎么运作的？

What what's your view on how crypto works?

这不错。

Like, great.

听起来挺棒的。

That sounds fantastic to me.

但你得明白，这件事其实有两面性。

But, like, you realize there are two sides to that equation.

对吧？

Right?

如果人们总是被市场情绪牵着走，一会儿狂热一会儿恐慌，那我坚决反对创业者公开估值信息。

And if if if if there is a to the extent that people are victim to the pendulum swinging one way or the other, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna argue against our entrepreneurs disclosing valuation.

但我已经输掉这场争论了。

I've lost that fight.

我还认为，不管什么情况，都不该鼓励他们随时随地跟所有人交流。

I'm also arguing going to argue against their, like, you know, talk to everyone at all times no matter what the premise is.

对。

Yeah.

说实话，我经常惊讶于有人愿意跟我聊天。

I mean, they're I mean, I'm often surprised when anyone talks to a

我知道。

I know.

我经常觉得奇怪，怎么还有人愿意跟我聊呢？

Often surprised when anyone talks to me.

我总在想，你到底从这当中得到了什么？

I keep thinking, what do you what do you what are you getting out of this?

有些情况下，很明显他们是想让自己的名字出现在报道里、播客里，或者被人们提到。

And in some cases, it's very clear they they very much want to have their name in print or on a podcast or People

他们就是这么传统。

are old fashioned that way.

他们在乎。

They care.

我觉得，当他们意识到这背后是有代价的时候，往往也会感到意外。

And I think they're often surprised when they realize that that comes with costs.

那你当初为什么这么早就加入了一家风投公司？

But why were you an early hire at a venture firm?

而且不只是做公关的，而是能参与利润分成的运营合伙人。

And not just a comms person, right, but an operating partner who gets profits participation.

这跟大多数风投公司的角色很不一样。

It's a very different role than most VC firms.

是的，我觉得这个问题其实更适合问本和马克，应该是马克的主意。

Yeah, so I think the thing I mean, obviously, that's more of a question for, Ben and Mark, and I think it was Mark's idea.

但那时候公司的目标是，你我都明白，我们还记得当年那几家稳居前三四名的公司。

But I the business goal at the time so you and I are old enough.

我们记得，当年那几家稳居前三四名的公司。

We remember the list of the top three or four firms that felt fairly etched in stone.

对吧？

Right?

你知道的，

It was you know?

风险投资公司。

The VC firms.

没错。

Yes.

风险投资公司。

The VC firms.

对吧？

Right?

但我们的实际问题是，所有有意思的项目，基本都集中在那四五家公司之间竞争。

And yet the our business problem was all the interesting deals are basically these four firms, five firms compete for those deals.

所以，要想参与塑造未来，做出有意义的投资，并为我们的有限合伙人带来回报，我们就必须有机会参与这些项目的竞标。

So for us to be able to help build the future and, like, make the meaningful investments and and provide returns to our LPs, we needed to be in consideration for those deals.

那么，最难说服的是哪类人，让他们觉得我们值得关注？

And so what's the toughest audience to convince that, you know, we are interesting and worth looking at?

记者。

Reporters.

所以我们花了很多功夫在他们身上。

So, you know, so we did a lot of that.

对吧？

Right?

我记得我问过本，我们得花多久才能被纳入考虑范围？

And we you know, I remember asking Ben, like, how long will it take us to, like, get to be in consideration?

结果比我们预想的快多了。

It actually happened quite a bit faster than

感觉事情发生得特别快。

It seemed like it happened very quickly.

我觉得是Skype那笔交易，让别人突然意识到：等等，这不对劲。

I think it was the Skype deal that made people go like, oh, wait.

这很不寻常，因为本和马克之前就一直做天使投资。

That's very unusual because, you know, Ben and Mark had had an a history of doing angel investments.

所以当我们成立公司时，他们以为，尽管我们说会投任何类型的项目，等等。

So I think when we launched the firm, they thought like, even though we said, we'll write any kind of check, blah blah blah.

但Skype这笔交易让我们一下子出了名，大家开始觉得，哦，这帮人敢冒险。

But, so the Skype deal put us on the map, I think, as like, oh, these people, you know, will take risks.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我视角有限，因为当时我一直在做科技和行业报道，感觉你们一出现就掀起了波澜。

I mean, I guess because I have a blinkered view because I was doing a lot of tech reporting and and and trade reporting at the time, like, it seemed like you guys showed up, made a splash.

大家立刻就认为，你和马克·安德森——他九十年代因为发明了互联网登上过《时代》周刊封面——还有本·霍罗威茨，不过本没上过封面。

The story was instantly that you and Marc Andreessen, who again was on the cover of Time Magazine in the '90s for inventing the internet, and Ben Horowitz, but Ben wasn't on the cover

实际上，本当时根本没什么名气。

of Actually, Ben was not famous at all.

我同意你的说法。

I agree with you.

当时大肆出手，砸了很多钱。

Was making a splash, was throwing around a ton of money.

很多人对这些资金的来源都有疑问。

There were a lot of question marks about the money.

我当年做科技和行业报道时，有个不成文的秘密：公司能被报道，往往是因为有红杉或者其他知名风投投了钱。

And then one of the dirty secrets of trade reporting, at least back when I was doing venture stuff, was companies got written about because they were funded by Sequoia or other name brand companies.

那些和这些公司合作的人，就拿这个当背书，好让媒体愿意发他们的故事。

And the people who worked with them used that as sort of the validation to get them published.

后来你们也开始这么干了。

Then you guys started doing the same thing.

有时候我会读到一些公司的报道，觉得他们做的事特别无聊。

Occasionally, I'd read a story about some company that was doing something that I thought was quite boring.

我就纳闷，这家公司的故事怎么会被媒体选中？

And I thought, why would x company ever get written about an x publication?

结果一看，哦，原来是安德里森投资的公司。

And you see, oh, they're Andreessen company.

你们在这方面做得不错。

So you did a good job of that.

简而言之，他们雇用你就是为了帮他们在硅谷打响名气。

So they hired you to help make their name in the valley is is the short version of my long ramble.

但为什么选你当合伙人，而不是单纯的公关顾问呢？

But why make you a like, why you why are you a partner instead of a trusted comms confidant?

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

你得去问他们。

You have to ask them.

我的意思是，你看看。

I mean, look.

我当时在经营自己的公司。

Was running my own company.

但促成这笔交易的是你。

But you made the deal.

我让你代表他们发言，毕竟这单生意是你谈下来的。

I'm gonna allow you to speak for them in this behalf because you you negotiated a deal.

我当时自己在经营公司。

I was running my own company.

我直勾勾地盯着他们。

Like, I literally looked at them.

你让我放弃我的‘非人类孩子’？

It's like, you're asking me to walk away from my nonhuman child?

什么？

Like, what?

你逗我呢？

You fucking kidding me?

我本来就没打算去上班。

So I wasn't gonna take a job.

而且，合伙人这种关系真的挺复杂的。

And, like, there's a thing with partnerships are complicated.

对吧？

Right?

合伙做生意真的很难。

Being part of a partnership is hard.

所以我就想，如果我不管公司了，那至少得管住品牌。

So I was like, if I'm gonna not run the firm, I need to be able to run the brand.

对吧？

Right?

要是合伙事事都得集体决定，那啥事也干不成。

Because if you do everything by committee in a partnership, you will never get anything done.

总会有理由说别采访记者、别做这事，因为大家怕风险、怕丢脸，等等等等。

There'll always be a reason not to talk to the reporter, not to do the thing because people are risk averse, and they they get embarrassed, blah blah blah blah blah.

所以那其实是一场谈判。

So I was like, so that was a negotiation.

我就说，这部分我来负责。

Like, I'll I'll do this part.

为了让我加入，我得有个头衔，简单明了地让人明白：行，这事儿我说了算。

And in order for me to join, I need to have some sort of whatever title is a good shorthand to signal, like, okay.

不行。

No.

这可不是小事。

It's a serious thing.

你就是老板。

You're a boss.

大概就是女老板吧。

Boss lady, I suppose.

我跟你说。

I tell you.

你可不是那种

It's not like you

得改来改去的人，不过也行。

gotta modify, but sure.

你可是个女老板。

You're a boss lady.

所以，薪酬待遇这事儿真挺重要的。

And so it's so comp is a thing.

比如，你还能分到利润。

Like, you get, like, you get profits.

这可是件大事。

That's that's a very big deal.

而且，从结构上和别人对你的看法来看，你在公司里真有话语权。

And, also, you're saying structurally and perception wise, you have real clout within the company.

你不是那种打杂的。

You're not a service

这个我不敢说。

I don't know about that.

我的意思是，你看看。

I mean, look.

现在一般合伙人多得是，我的看法也多得很。

There are lots and lots of general partners now, and I have lots and lots of opinions.

我尽量认真听每个人的意見，但合伙关系真的挺复杂的。

And I try to do a good job of listening to all of them, but, like, partnerships are complicated.

所以当有人给我打电话，说嘿，

So you have to this is when people call me and say, like, hey.

我想做你这样的工作时，

I want one of your jobs.

我就会提醒他们：先确保你有明确的授权。

I'm like, just make sure you have a mandate.

对吧？

Right?

因为如果没有，事情就会变得麻烦。

Because if you don't, then it gets tricky.

广告结束后，马上回来继续和玛吉特的对话。

Right back with Margit after a word from this sponsor.

我是米奇·福斯特，两届个人冠军、赛事MVP，也是美国女子国家队的前锋。

I'm Mitch Furst, two time individual champion, championship MVP, and forward for the US Women's National Team.

在成为职业运动员之前，我从哈佛大学毕业，主修心理学，这门学问的用处比你想象的还要大。

Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology, which comes in handy more than you think.

每个追求卓越的运动员都知道，你必须具备某种心态。

Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have.

但人们往往不知道，这种心态背后要付出什么代价。

What people don't know is what that costs.

在我的播客《精英运动员的自白》中，我会与世界上最顶尖的运动员对话，深入探讨通往卓越之路背后的心理、思维模式和那些不为人知的挣扎。

In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness.

欢迎坐下，来听听《精英运动员的自白》——在YouTube或者你常用的播客平台都能找到。

So take a seat and learn from the Confessions of an Elite Athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

嗨。

Hey.

我是马特·布谢尔，喜剧演员、编剧，也是你可能在推荐页上见过的那张漂浮的脸。我刚启动一档全新的播客。

I'm Matt Bouchel, comedian, writer, and floating head you may or may not have seen on your FYP, and I'm starting a brand new podcast.

等等。

Wait.

别划走。

Don't swipe away.

这档节目叫《听起来够呛》。

It's called that sounds like a lot.

我先来梳理一下世界上正在发生的各种荒唐事，然后约上一个喜剧演员、演员、作家，或者干脆任何回我私信的人，坐下来聊聊。

I'm gonna start by breaking down whatever insanity is happening in the world, and then I'll sit down with a comedian or actor or writer or, honestly, anyone who responds to my DMs.

这里不是给你刷新闻的地方，但能让你对这些事儿感觉没那么糟。

This is not the place to get the news, but it is a place to feel a little bit better about it.

你可以在YouTube上看，也可以在任何听播客的平台收听。

You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcast.

听起来够呛。

That sounds like a lot.

属于Vox Media播客网络的一部分。

Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

我们回来了。

And we're back.

我过去十多年报道的重点，是社交媒体的兴起。

The the world that I spent time covering last decade or so was the rise of social media.

当时要理解推特或脸书是什么、意味着什么、怎么运作，相对容易，因为你能看得见。

It was relatively easy to get your head around what Twitter or Facebook were and what they meant and kinda how they work because you could see it.

如果你是记者，大概也用这些产品用得太多了。

And if you're a reporter, you probably use those products too much.

接下来的技术阶段，似乎会难懂得多。

It seems like the next phase of technology is gonna be much harder to get your head around.

NFT到底是什么？

What's an NFT?

区块链是怎么运作的？

How does blockchain work?

区块链是我们该关注的东西吗？

Is blockchain a thing we should be paying attention to?

这是一场闹剧吗？

Is it a farce?

一旦涉及到真正的科学和医学，大多数人就完全搞不懂了。

Then when you get into anything involving, you know, actual science and and medicine, it's beyond the can of most people.

公众该怎么看待他们获取这类信息的渠道呢？

How should the general public feel about where they're getting their news about this stuff from?

这确实很重要，但我认为很难找到可靠的信息。

Because it is very important, but I think it's very hard to get good information about it.

嗯，这正是我试图填补的空白。

Well, I mean, that's partly the hole that I'm trying to fill.

对吧？

Right?

确实是这样。

It is Yeah.

我不是想给你一个敷衍的否定答案。

I'm not trying to give you a softball that says No.