全面恢复签证是否足以重燃中国游客赴印旅游热情？

这个高消费、快速增长的市场必须成为印度旅游业增长战略的一部分。

This high spending, fast growing market needs to be part of India's growth strategy for tourism.

社交媒体上中国对印度的印象相当负面。

The image of India in China on social media, pretty negative.

我认为正因如此，让那些真正想前往印度旅行、并对印度文化充满热情的人去印度变得尤为紧迫。

I think that's why it's so urgent to let someone go to India, especially the one who would like to take the journey, can be treated as a big fan of the Indian culture.

我认为从长远来看，我们仍然可以保持乐观。

I think for the long term, we could still be optimistic.

短期内，由于这种替代效应，复苏可能会比预期更慢。

For the short term, the rebound could be slower than expected due to this substitution effect.

从中国游客的角度来看，安全已成为印度亟需解决的首要问题。

From a Chinese tourist point of view, safety becomes a big paramount issue that India needs to address.

也许中国游客和印度人并未意识到，实际上存在语言障碍。

Maybe Chinese tourists and Indians are not aware of is actually there's a linguistic barrier.

曝光度。

Exposure.

聊天休息室以更轻松的方式解读热点问题的观点和看法。

Chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.

欢迎来到聊天休息室。

Welcome to the chat lounge.

我是Chi Yun。

I'm Chiyun.

今天和我一起讨论印度全面恢复对中国游客的全球签证服务的，有印度金达尔全球法学院教授、中国聚成律师事务所高级顾问蒋婉娟。

Joining me to discuss India fully restoring global visa services for Chinese travelers, Jiang Wanjuan professor, Jindal Global Law School of India and senior counsel, Beijing Jucheng Law Firm, China.

还有中国交易台的创始人兼首席执行官Supermania Bhat，以及香港大学政治与公共行政系政治学博士候选人高希蕊。

Supermania Bhat, founder and CEO of China Trading Desk, and Gao Xirei, a political science PhD candidate, Department of Politics and Public Administration, University of Hong Kong.

热烈欢迎各位。

A warm welcome to you all.

那么，希蕊，我们先从你开始好吗？

So, Xirei, can we begin with you?

你能简单告诉我们，你上一次申请印度签证是什么时候吗？

Would you please tell us briefly when did you last apply for an Indian visa?

整个过程花了多长时间？

How long did the whole process take?

手续复杂吗？

And was it complicated?

当然。

Sure.

谢谢您邀请我。

Thank you for having me.

我上一次申请是在2019年之前，我想是这样。

So last time I applied was prior to 2019, I think.

那是暂停之前的事了。

It was before the suspension.

当时我大概花了两到三周时间去北京大使馆领取签证。

And it roughly take me like two to three weeks to pick up my visa at the Beijing embassy.

对。

Right.

整个过程复杂吗？还是你觉得其实挺简单的

Was the whole process complicated or you find it really I

我觉得还行。

think it was okay.

我在线申请并提交了申请，然后收到通知去领取签证。

I applied online and submit my application, and I get notified to collect my visa.

整个过程很顺利。

It went smoothly.

好的。

Okay.

谢谢。

Thanks.

文健，我了解到你现在在印度。

Wenjian, I understand you're currently now in India.

对吧？

Right?

我的情况有点复杂。

My appearance is a little bit complicated.

我上一次申请签证是在申请工作签证两年前。

I my last application for visa happened more than two years before employment visa.

是的。

Yeah.

我还在等签证。

I'm still waiting for the visa.

已经过了两年了。

It has been over two years.

所以你现在在中国，而不是印度？

So you're currently in China instead of India?

是的。

Yes.

那你对整个申请流程的整体感受如何？

So what's your general feeling about the the application process?

就像Siri刚才提到的，根据你最近的经历，这个过程没那么复杂，是吗？

Is it like, as Siri just mentioned, it's not too complicated according to your latest experience?

我认为，与旅游签证相比，工作签证会稍微复杂一点，但对任何国家来说都算正常。

I think compared to tourist visa, employment visa would be a little bit more complicated, but usual for any country.

这是我第三次根据政策申请工作签证。

This is my third time to apply employment visa according to the policy.

如果你拿到了签证，在印度可以使用四次，之后就必须回到本国重新申请签证。

If you got a visa, you have four times with the with you in India, and then you need to go back to your home country to reapply the visa.

所以这是我的第一次。

So this is my first time.

与我之前的两次申请相比，他们觉得这很不寻常。

Compared to my two previous adherence, they see the unusual.

通常需要两个月。

It usually takes two months.

但这次，尽管我已经准备好了所有文件，还是需要等待超过两年。

But this time, even though I have all the documents ready, I still need to wait for over two years.

直到今天，我还不知道能不能拿到签证。

Even today, I didn't know whether I could get it or not.

嗯，这种情况是存在的。

Well That has certain situation.

对。

Right.

我想，许多前往印度的中国游客都可能遇到和你提到的类似情况。

I I guess quite a number of Chinese visitors to India could face the same situation like you just mentioned.

但对苏布来说，这次全球推广与印度今年7月恢复的签证政策有何不同？

But to Subu, how is this global rollout different from the visa resumption India introduced in July?

你能为我们简单解释一下吗？

Can you briefly explain it to us?

谢谢。

Thank you.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

我认为变化在于时间和范围。

I think what's changed is both the timing and the scope.

所以最初在七月开放时，旅游签证的重启非常低调，仅通过其在北京、上海和广州的使领馆办理。

So initially, when they opened up in July, it was a very quiet restart of tourist visas, but only through its missions in Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou.

而且这还是在新冠疫情和边境冲突等五年平静期之后。

And that was also after five years of peace with the COVID and then the border clash, etcetera.

但新的举措要更进一步。

But the new step goes quite further.

对吧？

Right?

现在，印度驻世界各地的大使馆和领事馆都被允许向任何地方的中国公民签发旅游签证。

So now Indian embassies and consulates worldwide are now allowed to issue tourist visas to Chinese nationals wherever they are.

这使得居住或工作在新加坡、阿联酋、英国等第三国的中国公民更加方便。

So this makes it easy for Chinese citizens living in or working in third countries like Singapore, UAE, UK.

这变得容易多了。

It becomes a lot more easier.

因此，我们现在正从中国境内极其有限的重启，转向全面的全球开放。

So we are now moving from a very limited reopening inside China to full global access.

电子签证、电子旅游签证的回归，也使事情变得更加容易。

And the return of e visas, e tourist visas, also makes it much more easier.

所以，从政治上讲，我认为这是印度在表明，他们已准备好欢迎普通民众之间的正常往来。

So, politically, I think that's India signaling that they are ready to welcome normal people to people's travels.

那么，为什么印度选择在这个特定时刻采取行动，而不是更早或更晚？

Then why did India choose this particular moment to act not earlier, not later?

有人说，这是在约50万中国游客取消了前往日本的行程之后发生的。

Some say it comes after some of 500,000 Chinese tourists cancel their trips to Japan.

这在多大程度上与这一发展有关呢？

Is there any you know, to any extent related to to this development?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我更愿意把这看作是一种巧合，而不是一个明确的、地缘政治层面的举动。

I would take that more as a coincidence rather than a concrete, you know, more of a geopolitical play.

我认为当中国开始……呃，抱歉，中国做了‘slay’的时候，很多事情都凑在一起了。

I think a lot of things were coming together when China started to and China did the slay sorry.

印度做了‘slay’测试球。

India did the slay test ball.

对吧？

Right?

所以，首先，显然边境的安全紧张局势在经过几轮谈判后已经大大缓解。

So I think first is, obviously, the security tension, which from the borders have pulled down quite a bit after several rounds of talks.

因此，我认为德里现在感觉更安全，可以采取一个明显的信心举措。

So I think Delhi feels safer taking a a visible confidence step.

第二点是，这在印度已经讨论了很久。

The second is this has been debated quite a while in India.

再次强调，经济因素起着非常重要的作用。

Again, economics plays quite a big part.

好吧。

Alright.

前往印度的外国游客数量仍低于2019年水平，不仅中国游客，总体而言，疫情前曾达到近一千一百万人。

Foreign tourist arrival to India still is below twenty nineteen, not just the Chinese, right, but overall almost eleven million that was before COVID.

而中国游客当时接近三万一千四百人。

And the Chinese were close to about three and fourteen thousand people.

我认为最近的统计数字只有大约三万人左右。

I think the last count is just about 30,000 or something.

所以回到中国的中国游客非常非常少。

So very, very minimal Chinese coming back.

第三个观点，我认为也是外交因素。

And the third point, I think, is also diplomacy.

对吧？

Right?

中国出境旅游已经恢复了不少。

China's outbound tourism has been recovering quite a bit.

我们估计2025年这一数字将达到约1.6亿，超过疫情前的2019年水平。

We estimate it to reach about 160,000,000 this year in 2025, surpassing COVID times before COVID, twenty nineteen times.

因此，这将是中国人出境旅游人数的最高纪录，而印度则错失了这一机会。

So this is gonna be the highest number of Chinese traveling outside of China and pretty much India has missed out then.

如果印度继续拖延，中国游客将越来越习惯前往东南亚、中东和欧洲。

If India waits longer, Chinese travelers are gonna just become more used to Southeast Asia, The Middle East, and Europe.

所以他们不应该再等待了，他们认为，这个消费高、增长快的市场必须成为印度旅游业发展战略的一部分。

So they should not be waiting anymore, and they feel that, you know, this high spending, fast growing market needs to be part of India's growth strategy for tourism.

对。

Right.

所以我认为，他们很快意识到，这对他们来说更容易做到

So I think that's the main reason they quickly realized that this would be easier for them to

嗯。

Mhmm.

吸引更多中国游客前来。

Get more Chinese to come in.

Siri，你怎么看？

And, Siri, what's your interpretation?

新德里是在优先考虑经济需求、外交调整，还是提升其软实力形象？

Is New Delhi prioritizing economic needs, diplomatic recalibration, or a boost to its soft power image?

我确实认同这种解释，这确实是一种误判。

I definitely buy explanation, and it's definitely miscalculation.

此外，我认为中国之前已经恢复了对希望前往喜马拉雅山区徒步的印度游客的签证处理，而那是一个重要的宗教地区。

Also, I think because China earlier has also resumed the visa to processing for the Indian tourists who want to, went on a trek around the Himalayas, which is an important religious area.

既然中国已经采取了这一举措，印度也到了该跟进解除限制的时候了。

As China has also made that move, it has come to India's turn to do this lifting as well.

所以我认为这是一个循序渐进的自然步骤。

So I think it's a natural step by step.

对。

Right.

如果我没记错的话，我认为中国在2023年就恢复了对印度游客的签证，比印度早了一点。

And if my memory serves me correctly, I think China resumed visas for Indian visitors in 2023, a little bit earlier than India.

所以，苏布，你认为这一举措实际上传递了印度方面的什么信号？是表明它有信心让中印关系重回正轨，还是你能从这一举动中解读出其他含义？

So, Subu, what do you think this move actually signal the confidence on the Indian side that it can go back on the the right track, if you will, in terms of relations with China or anything else that you can read from, you know, this move?

我认为，其中一个压力是，中国在开放方面做得相当多，不仅对印度人，也对许多其他外国人开放。

I I think, yeah, I think one of the pressures is also that, you know, China has been opening up quite a bit in terms of not just Indians, but a lot of foreigners coming into into China.

许多免签政策已经实施，这与印度的做法形成了鲜明对比。

A lot of visa free policies have happened, and this in stark contrast to what India does.

对吧？

Right?

因此，印度仍然被非常严格的签证规定所困扰，即使是游客签证也是如此。

So India is is will still bogged down by very strict rules on even visitor visas.

所以我认为，这也影响了印度人对海外游客整体市场的看法，尤其是当游客选择前往邻国中国而非访问印度时。

So I think that has also had some impact in terms of how Indians view the overall market of overseas travelers coming into India, especially if the tourists are going into a big neighboring country like China and not visiting India.

这会对他们产生相当大的影响。

That would impact them quite a bit.

我认为这也是他们希望将中国纳入签证政策的一部分原因。

I think that's one of the reasons I would also say that they wanted to expand and and include China as part of the visa policy.

因此，我认为他们希望开始互惠，以建立中印之间更好的关系。

And with that, I think they would want to start reciprocating, being able to build out a better relationship between China and India.

再次强调，这两个国家是亚洲大陆上面积和人口最大的国家，也是彼此的邻国。

Again, these two are the biggest, both in landmass and the population, the biggest countries within Asia Continent and their neighbors.

因此，他们希望促进人员、技术和商业的交流，以便双方都能繁荣发展。

So they would want to have exchange of both people and technology and commerce so that they can both flourish the business.

但据您所知，这次重新开放仅限于旅游签证吗？

But is the reopening limited to tourist visas according to your knowledge?

因为，文静刚刚提到她在那边遇到了一些问题。

Because, you know, Wenjing just mentioned that she's met some problem there.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这项新政策主要针对旅游签证。

I would say this new policy is focused on tourist visa.

对。

Right.

他们已经，我想说，已经开放了其他类别。

They've already I would say they've already opened up other categories.

对吧？

Right?

学生签证、商务、工作、医疗签证都已经开放了。

Student visa, business, work, medical visas have been opened.

显然，在审批流程和所需文件数量等方面，仍然存在很多障碍。

Obviously, there is a lot of friction in terms of how approval takes place and the amount of documentations required, etcetera, to get that process going.

但这项最新举措本身仅聚焦于旅游签证，旨在让人们更容易申请，特别是通过在线电子签证，流程更简便。

But this latest move itself is just focused on tourist visa to make it easier for people to apply, especially through eVisa online with less Right.

我并不一定说文件更少，但流程的阻力更小了。

I wouldn't say necessarily less document, but with less friction to get that sorted out.

因为所有流程都在线上完成，你可以随时随地办理。

Because everything comes online, and you can do it from anywhere you are.

这应该会让事情变得更简单。

It should make it easier.

那么，剩余的零散限制措施告诉我们，印度在缓解紧张局势方面愿意走多远呢？

Then what does the remaining patchwork of restrictions tell us about how far India is willing to go in easing tensions then?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，地缘政治方面的担忧仍在推动着一些决策。

I think there's still quite a bit of geopolitical concerns that's driving some of those decisions.

对吧？

Right?

因此，在商业方面，尤其是投资领域，目前中国公司直接投资印度仍然有些困难。

So the commerce part, especially the investment side where it is still a bit more difficult for Chinese companies to invest directly into India right now.

在企业间合作方面，进展也相对缓慢。

And in terms of business to business cooperation, it's also a bit being calibrated a bit slowly.

他们不希望资金和人员大量涌入印度，以免对本地就业造成负面影响。

They do not want overflow of both funds and people to India to the perceived detrimentalism of local employment.

对吧？

Right?

所以他们对此保持高度谨慎。

So that's something that they keep highly cautious about.

但我认为，中美之间征收的关税也对印度造成了相当大的影响。

But I think the other favorable India China collaboration would also be that the tariff imposed by US is also taking quite a bit of an impact on India.

对吧？

Right?

它的税率确实有所波动，现在稳定在50%，这对印度来说并不是最理想的。

I do it has fluctuated with different rates and now it's staying at 50%, which is not most optimal for Indians.

所以我认为，这可能会让印度更实际地思考：国家的发展、促进商业和贸易价值才是更重要的。

So I think that might also make it more practical for India to think that, you know, what is more important is the growth of the country and increasing the commerce and and trade values.

因此，他们可能会寻求更有利的方式，确保与我们的商业、就业和教育合作能更快地推进。

So they might look at more favorable ways to make sure that even business and employment and education with us get faster processing done.

聊天室。

The chat lounge.

聊天室以更轻松的方式探讨热点问题的观点和看法。

The chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.

无论如何，目前对中国游客的限制已经放宽了。

Anyway, the restrictions for at least Chinese tourists are eased now.

接下来的问题是，印度方面能否通过这一新举措吸引到他们期望的中国游客数量。

Then next is whether the Indian side could actually draw as many Chinese tourists as they wish with this new move.

让我们谈谈一些实际的挑战。

Let's talk a little bit about the, you know, practical challenges.

西里，你上次说在新冠疫情前，也就是2019年，你申请过签证，对吧？

Siri, you said last time you got a visa before the COVID pandemic, right, in 2019.

那么当时，你能告诉我们一下你经历的申请流程吗？中国游客实际上需要提交哪些文件？

So at that time, can you tell us a little bit how the application process you have to go through and what documents do Chinese tourists actually need to submit?

当然。

Sure.

那当时的情况有点不一样。

So it was a little bit different.

这里有个细微差别，因为上次我其实是打算短期访问，但现在大多数中国游客申请的都是旅游签证。

There's a nuance here is because last time, actually, I decided to went a short visit, but most Chinese tourists applying now are actually tourist visa.

但我认为它们在所需文件上是重叠的。

But I think they overlap on documents.

以上海领事馆为例。

So let's take Shanghai Consulate, for example.

他们也有微信账号和网站，上面写着我们需要，比如申请表。

They have also WeChat account and website, and it reads that we need, for example, the application form.

你必须填写它。

You have to fill it out.

你必须复印你的护照、中国身份证、旅游票、机票，以及经济状况证明和工作证明。

You have to photocopy your passport, your Chinese ID, your tour ticket, plane ticket, like your economic status guarantee and proof of employment.

还有，有时需要银行对账单，以及一份每个外国人都需要签署的额外表格。

Also, you know, sometimes bank statement, and also some additional form for foreigners that everyone needs to, you know, sign.

还有一些特殊规定。

And there are some special rules.

例如，作为持有旅游签证的中国公民，您必须在重返印度前至少等待两个月的最短间隔。

For example, you have to wait at least two months minimum interval before reentry to India if you are a Chinese citizen, you know, holding a tourist visa.

对。

Right.

据我了解，在上海申请印度旅游签证可能需要超过两个月的时间。

Is it from what I learned is that in Shanghai, to get a tourist visa to India could take over two months.

据你所知，是这样吗？

Is that so, to your knowledge?

我认为在十一月之前、也就是这次恢复之前，是的。

I think before November, before this resumption, I guess, yes.

所以确实需要很长的时间。

So it's really quite a long time.

而且，我有很多同学和同行需要去印度学习，他们必须等待好几个月。

And, you know, I have a lot of cohorts and peers who need to study in India, and they have to wait several months.

确实如此。

That's true.

确实如此。

That's true.

但现在申请流程和统计数据快多了。

But now the application process, the stats, much quicker.

但我认为这是法律上的时间，不一定是实际处理所需的时间。

But I think that's the de jure time, not necessarily the de facto time you need for the process.

好的。

Alright.

所以，苏布，你认为在全球恢复后，情况会好转吗？

So, Subu, do you think after this global resumption, things would get better?

或者

Or

是的。

Yeah.

我认为情况肯定会好转，因为现在申请可以分散到各个地方办理了。

I would think that it certainly would get better because there is now a dispersal of of where the applications can happen.

随着全球扩展，这确实有助于将申请量分散到各个使领馆，而不是迫使所有人都去北京或上海直接申请。

So with the global expansion, it certainly helps to distribute the load across, you know, the missions instead of forcing everybody to just go to Beijing or Shanghai to directly apply.

正如我之前提到的，我认为所有符合条件的旅行者都可以完全在线申请电子旅游签证。

And like I mentioned before, I think all eligible travelers, the eTourist visa is fully online.

因此，你可以直接上传所有文件和照片，尽管对文件和照片的大小等有非常严格的要求。

So you can just upload all documents and photo, although there are very strict conditions about documents and and photo size, etcetera.

但这样一来，整个申请过程完全在线完成并接收电子授权就变得相当容易了。

But it becomes quite easy to just apply everything online and receive an electronic authorization.

因此，我认为在申请速度和全球审批效率方面，这肯定会比以前更便捷，尤其是对于在新加坡或中东等地工作的中国人来说，申请起来会更方便。

So it and certainly, I think it's it's gonna be easier than before in terms of fast application and hopefully fast approval across the globe when when people are especially when people Chinese from Singapore or Middle East where they are working, easier for them to apply.

那么，你认为使馆工作人员在处理签证时，会优先考虑旅游签证，而不是像工作签证这样的类别吗？旅游签证会排在前面吗？

Then do you think those embassy staff, they would prioritize tourist visa when when compared to, like, Wenzhen's work visa tourist visa would come, you know, first?

我认为旅游签证可能会比工作签证获得更高的优先级。

I would think that tourist visa probably will likely be a bit more highly prioritized than work visas.

主要是，正如我所说，之前的游客数量并没有那么高。

Primarily, like I said, the number of tourists has not been as high before.

因此，旅游收入总是很受欢迎的。

So tourism revenue is always quite welcome.

对吧？

Right?

疫情前，中国游客平均每次访问印度的消费约为1700美元。

Before the pandemic, on average, Chinese used to spend about 1,700 US dollars when they visited India.

对吧？

Right?

这在直接消费方面已经是一笔相当可观的数目，而且还有许多相关的衍生效益，可能会为印度带来更高的收入。

So that's quite a decent number in terms of direct consumption, and there is such auxiliary multipliers that that would probably even have higher revenue that that would go into the Indian coffers.

但毫无疑问，他们更希望看到更多游客前来。

But, definitely, they would prefer to see more tourists coming in.

再次强调，正如我所说，工作签证的审批会更加谨慎，申请数量也会受限。

Again, like I mentioned, work with us is gonna be a bit more cautious in terms of how how many they apply.

因此，旅游签证会更容易获批，他们肯定会努力填补空白，至少恢复到疫情前的游客水平，以推动旅游收入的增长。

So tourist visas are gonna be much easier, and they would definitely want to fill the gap of at least trying to reach the pre pandemic level of tourists coming in so that they can push for more revenue to come into some tourism side.

对。

Right.

文军，你有没有申请过旅游签证，去过印度旅游？

Wenjun, have you ever, you know, applied for a tourist visa, you know, go to India with a tourist visa?

旅游签证和工作签证有什么明显区别吗？

Are there any obvious differences between a tourist visa and a work visa?

不幸的是，我从未申请过旅游签证。

Unfortunately, I have never applied a tourist visa.

嗯。

Yeah.

因为啊。

Because yeah.

是工作让我来印度的，从那以后我一直申请的是工作签证。

And it's just a job bring me to India, and they since then, I always buy the employment visa.

而且，你知道，我是哥伦比亚披萨。

And, you know, I'm Colombia pizza.

一旦获得，你就可以在印度全职续签。

Once you get it, you have the full time renew in India.

但我认为，正如罗马尼亚人提到的，旅游签证应该优先考虑。

But I think, as Romanian mentioned, the tourist visa should be a priority.

我也这么认为，因为这两个大国、两个邻近国家在人民交流方面已经长期处于分离或脱钩状态。

I think that too since the two big nations, two big neighboring countries have been kind of separated or decoupled for for long from the people to people contact perspective.

我认为，只要有可能，旅游签证就应该恢复。

I think tourist visa needed to be restored to when possible.

而且，与其他类型的签证相比，旅游签证实际上已经被正式冻结了。

And, also, compared to other visit, tourist visa had been officially enough be frozen.

所以其他类型的访问签证并没有被冻结。

So that's why for other visits, they have not been frozen.

这只是通过内部管控，对吧？目的是不让它太容易。

It's just through internal control, right, to make it not too easy.

但他们从未正式宣布过这类签证已被批准。

But they have never kind of officially announced that with this type of had been approved.

但只有旅游签证被批准了。

But tourist visa had been approved only.

我认为这就是为什么它应该成为首要任务的原因。

I think that's the reason why it should be a top priority.

其次，学生签证或学者签证也需要得到关注。

And then the second type of visa also need to get attention to the student visa or scholar visa.

了解中国，我们正在加强与印度的交流。

Knowing China, we're enhancing the communication with India.

许多大学开设了印地语、孟加拉语、泰米尔语等课程。

Many universities have this language Hindi, Bengali, Tamil.

这些学生学习了这些语言，他们需要有机会去印度，但很少有人能获得签证。

So these students started this language and they need the opportunity to get a chance in India, but very few of them could get a visa.

我认为，过去一两年情况有所改善，但对那些想去印度、并对印度有强烈情感或文化认同的学生来说，这仍然不够。

I think, yeah, in the last two or one year, it become better, but still it's not kind of enough for the student to who want to go to India and they have a strong feeling or kind of a cultural affiliation with India.

应该更容易获得签证。

It should get a visa easier.

否则，他们会非常沮丧。

Otherwise, they have they will be very discouraged.

你知道吗？

You know?

学了这门语言后，他们却无法去印度，或者无法获得资格。

After learning this language, they can never go to India or can be make applicable.

是的。

Yeah.

他们为学生申请。

They ask for students.

对吧？

Right?

比如，他们需要获得学生签证。

Like, they need to get student visas.

是的。

Yeah.

学生学者，你知道吗，有些研究者专注于印度研究。

Student scholars, you know, some research some scholars focus on Indian studies.

我觉得他们有点不知道该如何表达这种感受。

And I think they feel a little bit kind of they don't know how to explain the feeling.

懂吗？

Know?

他们对这个国家有着强烈的情感联系，但却无法超越自己的研究。

They have a strong kind of a situation, connection with this country, but they cannot get over his study.

是的。

Yeah.

他们感觉自己被忽视了，或者可能受到了歧视。

They they feel like they they are overlooked or or maybe discriminated against.

是的。

Yeah.

对于许多这样的学生学者来说，这是一种非常奇怪的感觉。

It's very strange feeling for many of these student scholars.

我觉得，是的，这并不容易实现。

I think, yeah, it's it's not easy to get a bit.

我认为，对于中国学生来说，在印度最困难的时候是，印度作为一个拥有如此庞大且年轻人口的国家，情况并不寻常。

I think the most challenging time, you know, the Chinese students in India, not usual for such a too big countries with such big and bad number of youth population.

但也许当印度更加自信，或更愿意接受更多中国学生和学者时，这种情况能得到更好的解决。

But maybe they can have that better sorted out when India is more confident or feels more comfortable to accept more Chinese students or scholars.

但现在我们回到话题，聚焦于旅游签证。

But now we come back and focus on this tourist visa.

实际上，印度在七月恢复了对中国游客的旅游签证。

Actually, India resumed this tourist visa for Chinese travelers back in July.

这是五年来的第一次。

That's first time in five years.

根据印度一家旅行社Cosmos Travels and Tours的董事总经理称，最初的反应非常积极。

According to a managing director of a travel agency, Cosmos Travels and Tours in India, the initial mood was upbeat.

签证恢复的公告让整个旅游行业感到一种恢复正常的状态，仿佛终于为中印旅游市场按下了重置键。

The announcement of visa resumption gave everyone in the travel trade a sense of normalcy as though they were finally pressing reset on the India China travel market.

但这种乐观情绪仅停留在 headlines 上，因为实地的系统根本没有跟上步伐。

But that optimism remained only in the headlines because the systems on the ground have simply not kept pace.

所以，苏布，尽管我们有了全球范围的签证恢复，你是否担心实际结果可能并不像新德里希望的那样乐观？

So, Subu, though we've got this global resumption, do you have any concern that the result might not be that rosy like New Delhi would like to see.

你是否看到任何瓶颈，或者瓶颈可能出现在哪里？

Do you see any bottlenecks, or where might the bottlenecks appear?

比如，签证中心的人员配备、预约可用性，或处理时间？

Like, a visa center staffing, appointment availability, or processing times?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这些点都非常合理。

I think all those points are quite valid.

是的。

Yeah.

正如我所说，新闻头条通常比现实进展得更快。

Like I said, you know, the headlines usually move faster than the reality.

对吧？

Right?

所以虽然这非常令人欢迎，但我认为实际执行的状况——领事馆的行政人员如何真正落实审批流程和时间安排——将是决定他们能否成功增加我们这里游客审批数量的最关键因素。

So while it is very welcome, I think that the reality of how it is going to be implemented, how the for the bureaucratic staff at the consulate would actually get that approval process and and timing right would be one of the biggest factors to see whether they will be able to, you know, increase the approval of these tourists with us.

除此之外，我认为另一个主要障碍是旅行通道本身。

In addition to that, I think another big barrier is also the travel corridor itself.

目前只有两趟航班获得批准，因此印度和中国之间的连通性还非常有限。

Right now, there's only two flights that have been approved, so there's not much connectivity yet available between India and China.

所以我们也需要提升这一点。

So we need to bring that up too.

你知道，即使所有签证都获批了，但如果航空公司的运力很低，人们依然无法出行。

You know, having all the visas approved and and low capacity on airlines to travel still means people can't travel.

如果你没有从北京直飞孟买或北京直飞德里这样的航线——而德里是中国游客最感兴趣的热门城市之一——那情况将会非常困难。

So it's gonna be quite difficult if you don't have, I know, straight travel from, say, Beijing to Mumbai or Beijing to Delhi, which has one of the biggest cities that that Chinese are interested to travel to.

所以如果这种连接性不能便捷、廉价地实现，中国游客就会转而选择前往东南亚和韩国，因为那里旅行起来要容易和快捷得多。

So if you don't have that connectivity readily available and easily available and cheap, you know, the Chinese tourists are just gonna fall back to traveling to Southeast Asia and Korea and where it is much more easier and and faster to travel to.

这里是聊天室。

This has been the chat lounge.

我们回来后，看看阻碍中国游客的主要因素，以及印度当局可以采取哪些措施来推动进展。

When we return, check out the biggest factors holding Chinese travelers back and what Indian authorities could do to move the needle.

《中国儿童的故事》是爱迪丝·伊顿撰写的一部童话和寓言集，她是二十世纪初最早的亚裔美国女性作家之一。

Tales of Chinese Children is a collection of fairy tales and fables written by Edith Eaton, one of the first Asian American women writers from the turn of the twentieth century.

爱迪丝关注那些被珍视的孩子，他们是所有最甜蜜的礼物。

Edith focused on children who were treasured They are the sweetest gift of all.

迷失了。

Lost

离我远点。

Get away from me.

离我远点。

Get away from me.

或被误解

Or misunderstood

我儿子，你妹妹体内的邪灵几乎让你离我而去。

My son, the evil spirit in your sister had almost lost you to me.

在复杂的成人世界中，还有更多。

In the complicated adult world and much more.

在广播上搜索《书籍与Beyond》。

Search for Books and Beyond on radio.

在CGTN.com和所有主要播客平台。

Cgtn.com and all major podcast platforms.

深入一段音频之旅，让声音在你周围和上方萦绕，带来震撼的沉浸感。

To delve into an audio journey which allows the sound to linger around and above you for stunning realism.

欢迎回到聊天室。

Welcome back to the chat lounge.

我们继续讨论，全面恢复签证是否足以促使中国游客重返印度。

We continue our chat on whether the full resumption of visas is enough to recondole Chinese travel to India.

徐伟，你的期望是什么？

Xuwei, what's your expectation?

我们能否期待中国服务业人数迅速反弹，还是目前这一举措仍主要是象征性的？

Can we expect a quick rebound in Chinese service numbers, or is the move still largely symbolic for now?

谢谢。

Thank you.

所以从长远来看，我们仍然可以保持乐观。

So I think for the long term, we could still be optimistic.

但从短期来看，我认为疫情前与现在之间的一个变化是，如今像新加坡、卡塔尔等国家的许多热门旅游目的地对中国公民已实行免签。

But for short term, I think a change we have between, you know, the pre pandemic and now is that actually many popular tourist destinations in countries like Singapore, Qatar, they are now like visa free to Chinese citizens.

例如，你现在可以去新加坡短期访问。

For example, you can go to a short visit to Singapore now.

因此，目前对印度存在很强的替代效应。

So there's a strong substitution effect for India now.

即使印度通过取消签证限制表明其诚意。

And even if India signal its sincerity by lifting the visa restrictions.

但如今中国公民的选择比2019年时多得多。

But now Chinese citizens actually have more options compared to what they have in 2019.

所以，你知道，人们总是更喜欢旅行少、免签证的目的地。

So, you know, people always prefer less traveling and, you know, visa free destinations.

因此，由于这种替代效应，复苏可能会低于预期或更缓慢。

So the rebound could be lowered or slower than expected due to this substitution effect.

正如祖巴刚刚提到的，中国游客每次访问平均消费至少1000到2000美元。

And as Zuba has just mentioned, is that, you know, Chinese tourists spend on average maybe at least 1,000 to 2,000 US dollars per person during the visit.

所以这并不比其他热门目的地便宜。

So that's no less, you know, cheaper than other popular destinations.

所以复苏肯定会发生，但可能不会像我们预期的那样剧烈。

So there will be a rebound, but it may, you know, not as, you know, drastically as we could expect.

那么，如果长期消除障碍，潜在市场有多大呢？

Then how big is the potential market if barriers are lowered in the long run, would you say?

如果我们能恢复到2019年的水平，也就是超过30万人次，这将占印度外国游客总数的大约3%。

If we could ever get close to what we have in the 2019, that being said, is, you know, more than 300,000 visits, that would account for roughly 3% of the foreign tourists visiting India.

所以如果我们达不到这个数字，可能就不到3%。

So if we don't have that much, maybe, you know, less than 3%.

但即便如此，这对印度旅游业来说也是一大块蛋糕。

But still, that's a big chunk of, you know, cake for the tourism in India.

苏布，那你估计是多少呢？

Subbu, what's your estimation then?

嗯。

Yeah.

就像我之前提到的，我认为2019年大约是34万，但已经大幅下降了。

Like like I also mentioned, I think 2019 was about 340,000, but it's been gone down quite a bit.

但我认为印度需要从另一个角度来看待这个问题。

But I think India needs to look at it from a different perspective.

我们估计今年，正如我所说，将有1.6亿中国游客出境旅行，到2028年预计将达到2亿。

We estimate that this year, like I said, we are expecting 160,000,000 travelers from China to travel out, and that's expected to hit about 200,000,000 by 2028.

但如果印度想在2028年哪怕获得其中的1%，那就是200万中国游客前往印度。

But if India wants to even get 1% of that by 2028, that's 2,000,000 Chinese going to India.

明白吗？

Alright?

所以潜力巨大。

So the potential is huge.

对吧？

Right?

而且我认为吸引1%的中国游客并不难。

So even and I think it's not very difficult to get 1% of Chinese travelers.

显然，这需要大量工作来建设基础设施、提升互联互通，甚至可能取消一些限制，确保中国游客的旅行变得无缝且便捷。

It's obviously it takes a lot of work in terms of building the infrastructure, building the connectivity, building and probably even doing away with with our requirement and and making sure that it becomes seamless and easy for the Chinese to travel.

我们知道，中国游客出行时消费很多。

And we know that, you know, when Chinese travel, they spend a lot.

对吧？

Right?

最近的许多研究都表明，中国游客更倾向于体验式旅行。

And most of the recent studies have shown that Chinese are looking for more experiential travel.

所以，这不仅仅是去巴黎、逛路易威登商店、买名牌包那么简单。

So, you know, it's not just about going to Paris and going to Louis Vuitton stores and buying fancy bags.

更重要的是发现更真实的旅行体验，获得一些独特的东西。

It's more about identifying more authentic travel experiences, getting something unique.

我认为印度在佛教旅行、瑜伽、不同的自然资源和野生动物园等方面有很多可以提供的东西。

I think there's a lot that India can offer in terms of Buddhism traveling, in terms of yoga, in terms of a different natural resource and safaris, etcetera.

因此，印度有很多可以吸引中国游客的项目。

So there's plenty of things that India can offer that would entice the Chinese.

我认为，到2030年实现1%的目标，即超过两百万游客，对印度来说并非不可能。

And and I think aiming for even a 1% by 2030, which would be more than 2,000,000, is not something that is impossible for India.

那么从你的角度来看，阻碍中国游客的主要因素是什么？

Then from your perspective, what are the biggest factors or the biggest factor holding Chinese travelers back?

对。

Right.

我认为双方都会存在一些问题。

I think from both sides, there's gonna be some issues.

我认为，首先从中国游客的角度来看，关于印度安全问题的新闻层出不穷。

I think first, from a Chinese tourist point of view, there is constant news about safety issues in India.

我们看到过很多视频，甚至西方人去印度后，都会谈论那里有多困难，比如盗窃，以及某种程度上的骚扰和性侵等问题。

So we've seen so many videos even of Westerners who go to India and then talk about how difficult, you know, theft and and to a certain extent, some molestations, etcetera, that the harassments that happen.

但我认为，安全问题是印度必须优先解决的重大议题。

But I think safety becomes a big paramount issue that India needs to address.

清洁卫生是另一个经常被社交媒体广泛提及的问题，印度也需要对此加以改善。

Cleanliness is something else that also keeps getting highlighted by a lot of people on social media, and that's something that India also needs to address.

与此相关的是，比如宰客、游客被过度纠缠，有些人甚至以乞讨为名，近乎骚扰地向游客索要钱财，却不提供任何服务。

Then there is the associated with that is things like, you know, overcharging, people prying on tourists, especially by, you know, just either to a certain extent, they are begging, borderline harassing people to give them money for free without doing anything.

尽管我们希望这些情况能有所改善，但这些现象仍然持续发生。

So there's there's all these things that still keeps happening even though we we wish it to start the case.

但我觉得，社交媒体一直在放大关于印度的这些问题，印度必须大力改进，才能让印度游客感到更安心地前往旅行。

But I think that's that's something that social media keeps amplifying about India, and that needs to be addressed quite a bit before IAs would feel more comfortable to get to that level of travel.

这并非不可能，但我认为这是印度需要直面的一项任务。

Not impossible, but I think it is a task that they need to address head on.

对。

Right.