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如果资金不是限制因素，你的交易会是什么样子？
What would your trading look like if capital wasn't the constraint?
这正是大多数交易员面临的现实。
That's the reality for most traders.
拖住他们的不是技术，而是资金规模。
It's not skill holding them back, it's size.
改变交易的格局吧。
Trade the pool changes that.
无需投入自己的资金，即可进入美国股市，获得高达20万美元的交易额度。
Step into The US equity markets with up to $200,000 in buying power without committing your own capital.
可自由做多或做空，全面覆盖股票和ETF。
Full access to stocks and ETFs, long or short.
交易执行精准，完全符合专业交易员的期待。
Executed with the precision and freedom serious traders expect.
你的表现只以一个标准衡量：严格的风控和稳定的执行。
Your performance is measured by one standard, disciplined risk management and consistent execution.
达到这个标准，你就能大规模交易了。
Meet that standard and you operate at scale.
没有订阅费，也没有持续义务，只有清晰的前进路径。
No subscriptions, no ongoing obligations, just a clear path forward.
对于准备好突破限制的交易者来说，这就是下一步。
For those ready to trade beyond limitations, this is the next one.
你的投资组合难道不值得最好的工具吗？
Doesn't your portfolio deserve the best?
那就加入 Tasty Trade 吧——2026 年 Investopedia 评选的期权交易最佳平台。
Then join Tasty Trade, Investopedia's best platform for options trading 2026.
使用高级图表工具、回测功能、预设策略选择器，还有更多强大功能，让交易更聪明。
Trade smarter with advanced charting tools, back testing, a pre built strategy selector, and more features.
立即加入 Tasty Trade，前 30 天在股票和 ETF 期权交易中最高可获 3000 美元的双倍佣金返还。
Join Tasty Trade today and earn a double commission rebate up to $3,000 total on your stock and ETF option trades for thirty days.
访问 tastytrade.com/chat 了解更多信息。
Visit tastytrade.com/chat for more info.
所有适用的监管、交易所和清算费用仍需另行支付。
All applicable regulatory exchange and clearing fees still apply.
期权交易存在风险，并非适合所有投资者。
Options involve risks and are not suitable for all investors.
更多关于Tasty Trade促销条款的详情，请访问tastytrade.com/double。
Learn more about Tasty Trade promo terms and conditions at tastytrade.com/double.
本优惠截止日期为2026年5月31日。
Offer expires 05/31/2026.
Trade Incorporated是经注册的经纪交易商，系FINRA、NFA和SIPC成员。
Trade Incorporated is a registered broker dealer and member of FINRA, NFA, and SIPC.
市场、投机与风险。
Markets, speculation, and risk.
这里是与
This is the chat with
嗨，各位。
Hey, crew.
最近怎么样？
What's up?
我是亚伦·菲尔德。
Aaron Firefield here.
我得说，我真的特别期待你们听这一期节目。
And I gotta say, I'm actually genuinely very eager for you to hear this episode.
我个人觉得你们一定会收获很多，但在这之前，我得先跟你们说件事。
Personally, I think you're gonna get a lot out of this one, but I have to tell you something first.
各位，如果你在悉尼或者附近，请把6月4日星期二记在日历上，我要办一场现场播客活动。
Folks, if you are in Sydney or if you are near Sydney, please mark your calendar for Tuesday, June 5 because I'm hosting another live podcast event.
我请到了一位特别嘉宾，约翰·莫尔顿，不过很多人更熟悉他的外号——RAMBO。
And I have a very special guest lined up, John Moulton, though many know him better as RAMBO.
约翰——或者该叫他RAMBO——来自芝加哥，九十年代来到澳大利亚，很快就成了悉尼期货交易所最厉害的交易员之一。
Coming from Chicago, John, or rather RAMBO, arrived in Australia during the nineties, and he quickly earned reputation as one of the biggest and baddest traders on the floor of the Sydney futures exchange.
有些日子，他的交易量能占到整个市场总量的10%以上。
Some days, he would equate for well over 10% of the market volume.
正如我所说，约翰是个非常特别的嘉宾。
As I said, John's a very special guest.
他作为交易员取得了巨大的成功，却一直低调行事，很少出现在公众视野中。
He's been abundantly successful as a trader, and he's done a great job of staying away from the public spotlight.
据我所知，网上能查到关于他的信息，就只有他当年出现在九十年代纪录片《牛熊之间》的片段。
As far as I'm aware, the only thing you'll find about him online is when he featured in the nineties documentary Bulls and Bears.
但我去年见过约翰，他亲口告诉我，交易给我带来了丰厚回报，我也想回馈社会。
But I met John last year, and he told me almost word for word, trading has been very good to me, and I would like to give back.
所以，这才有了今天的活动。
So here we are.
关于活动本身，在正式访谈开始前，我会为大家准备啤酒和披萨，这也是个绝佳的机会，让大家互相认识、交流。
With regard to the actual event, prior to the live interview kicking off, I'm putting on bears and pizza for everyone, and this will also serve as an awesome opportunity to mingle with other traders.
同样重要的是，如果没有另外两家赞助商的支持，这场活动根本办不起来。
Equally important, because this event wouldn't be possible without other two sponsors who are getting behind this event.
他们不仅支持了‘与交易员对话’这个项目，更是在支持整个交易圈。
And by doing so, they're not only supporting chat with traders, but they're supporting the trading community.
这两家公司是Trading Technologies和Prime IA。
Those two companies are Trading Technologies and Prime IA.
给大家点个赞。
Show some love.
想了解更多信息或购票，请访问 chatwithtraders.com/rambo。
Now for more info and to get your ticket, go to chatwithtraders.com/rambo.
门票只要17美元。
Tickets are only $17.
就这些了。
That's it.
别错过这个机会。
Don't sleep on this.
赶紧买票吧，这类活动向来都是秒没的。
Get your ticket now because the event will sell out just as each one of these events has done in the past.
如果没记下链接，再提醒你一次：chatwithtraders.com/rambo。
If you didn't catch the link, it's chatwithtraders.com/rambo.
赶紧去订票吧。
Go get your ticket.
好的。
Alright.
接着往下说。
Moving along.
本期节目我们再次邀请到迈克·贝拉菲奥雷。
Returning to the podcast for this episode is Mike Bellafiore.
迈克，你应该知道，他是纽约一家自营交易公司SMB Capital的联合创始人。
Mike, as you should know, is the cofounder of SMB Capital, a New York City proprietary trading firm.
他还著有《交易手册》和《一笔好交易》，早在第22期节目里我就请他做过嘉宾。
He's also the author of The Playbook and One Good Trade, and he was my guest way back on episode 22.
那是2015年的事了。
That was in 2015.
正如标题所说，这期节目要讲的是，你该如何成为一名七位数收入的交易员。
As the title suggests, the purpose of this episode is to break down how you can become a 7 figure trader.
迈克完全有资格谈这个话题，因为他亲自指导并带领自己公司的交易员达到了这样的成功水平。
Mike is well qualified to speak on the subject because he's mentored and led traders within his own firm to reach this level of trading success.
不过这一期并没有什么捷径，但确实有实实在在的价值。
However, there are no quick fixes packed into this episode, but there is real value.
只要你认真听、做笔记，并有意识地实践迈克的一些建议，我相信时间久了一定会看到改变。
If you listen carefully, take notes, and intentionally act on some of Mike's suggestions, I know it will make a difference over time.
所有提到的链接和资源都可以在 chatwithtraders.com/16two 找到。
All the links and resources mentioned can be found at chatwithtraders.com/16two.
就这些了。
That's it.
我就不多说了。
I won't say anymore.
接下来请听迈克·贝拉菲奥雷，第162期节目。
Here is Mike Bellafiore for episode 162.
我觉得这一期特别合适的一个主题，就是成为年入七位数的日交易员的完整路线图。
I think a really cool theme for this episode would be, something along the lines of the blueprint for becoming a 7 figure day trader.
我的意思是，你怎么看这个？
I mean, how do you feel about that?
是的。
Yeah.
我很乐意聊聊这个。
Happy to talk about that.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
那咱们别浪费时间了，直接开始吧。
Well, let's, let's waste no time and, get into things.
咱们还是从最基础的说起吧，Mike。
Well, let's, let's take it right back to basics, Mike.
我知道，对于刚接触交易的人来说，一开始真的很容易搞不清楚该从哪儿入手。
So I know for someone who's, let's say, just coming into trading today, it can be very confusing about where to actually start.
你平时是怎么做的？
How do you go about it?
也就是说，你到底从哪儿开始学起？
Like, where do you even begin to learn from?
你最初是从哪里入手的？
Where do you start out?
好的。
Alright.
对我们来说，交易员的成长是分阶段的。
So, you know, for us, we think of development of a trader in stages.
第一阶段是稳定，第二阶段是仓位控制，第三阶段是多样化，用不同方式发挥你的优势。
And so the first stage is consistency, and the second stage is sizing, and the third stage is breadth, expressing your edge in in different ways.
第四阶段是提升表达想法的精细度。
And the fourth step is sophistication in how you express your ideas.
我经常从邮件和跟人交流中发现，交易圈里很多人其实搞不清自己现在处在哪个阶段。
And so I always find from my inbox and people I talk to that people in the trading community often mess up at what stage they're in.
所以很多人总想着先提高仓位大小。
And so a lot of people always wanna work on sizing.
对吧？
Right?
他们刚开始交易，有点小成功，就立刻想加大交易量。
And they start trading and they have a little bit of success, and now they want to just trade bigger.
可一旦真加大了，反而纳闷为啥成绩不如从前。
And then when they start trading bigger, they wonder why they're not doing as well as they would want.
要是看他们的交易结果，很多时候其实根本不稳定。
And if you look at the results, a lot of times they're inconsistent.
问题就在于，他们搞错了自己当前该专注的发展阶段。
And it's because that they're focusing on the wrong stage of their development.
我们最近招了一位零售交易员，他的过往业绩还不错。我们先让他完成了培训的前两个阶段，稍微打磨了一下技巧，然后跟他说：你就照以前的方式继续交易，我们不干涉，咱们就从你的实盘结果出发，慢慢调整仓位。
And so we had recently hired a trader who had a pretty good track record as a retail trader, And we train them up, put them through our first two parts of our training program, polished the edges a little bit, and said to them, hey, just do what you were doing as a retail trader, and we're sort of not going to get in the way, and let's let's work on sizing from your live results.
但这位交易员的表现并不理想。
And the trader was not doing very well.
我们不得不退一步，意识到这位交易员的表现不够稳定。
And we had to take a step back and say, the trader's not consistent.
他作为散户交易员时的表现还行，但时间太短，我们还无法确定他是否真的稳定。
And the traders run as a retail trader, while it was okay, it wasn't really long enough for us to really conclude that this was a consistent trader.
于是我们退回来，把重点放在了稳定性上。
And so we took a step back, and we focused on consistency.
要实现稳定，有很多事情要做：建立每天固定的交易流程，搞清楚自己最擅长的交易模式，并确保每次都严格执行。
All the things that go into consistency, coming up with the daily process that you're gonna go through, understanding the setups that you trade best, and making sure that you're trading them as much as you ought to be.
还要识别那些自己并不擅长的交易机会，果断放弃。
Understanding the trade ups that you don't trade best and getting rid of them.
这里面涉及的内容其实挺多的，对吧？
And so there's a lot that goes into that, right?
你有没有一套每天必须执行的交易流程？
So do you have a routine that you ought to go through each day?
你有没有把它写下来？
Have you written that out?
你清楚最适合自己的交易流程是什么吗？
Do you understand what the best routine is for you?
所有这些环节都得考虑进去。
All the things that go into that.
你知道自己最擅长交易哪种模式吗？
Do you understand what you trade best?
你有没有把所有交易记录都打上标签，然后导入到我们 desk 上用的系统——很多人叫它 Trader View——让你能量化分析结果，再仔细看看这些数据？
Have you tagged all of your trades that you made and then put them into a machine, put them into what we use on our desk, which a lot of people call trader view, and put them into a way for you to measure your results, and then have you take a look at those results.
等你分析清楚自己真正擅长什么之后，你有没有真的按这个方式去交易？
And then after you've measured and understand what you actually trade best, are you actually are you actually doing that?
当然，在这之前，第一步是得接受扎实的训练。
And so and and and the first step before that, of course, is getting trained pretty well.
前几天有人问我这个问题，我刚写过一篇帖子，你确实需要打下坚实的基础，对我们来说，就是先完成 SMB 基础课程。
I got actually asked a question about that which I wrote a post about the other day, and you do want to go through, you wanted to have a really solid foundation, and, you know, for us, that means going through SMB foundation.
然后才能进入交易发展阶段，再下一步才是团队交易。
That means then going into trader development, and that means then going into team trading.
这是我们培训计划的三个阶段，覆盖了你在公司第一年的全部内容。
Those are three parts of our training program that encompass your first year, at our firm.
那这个基础阶段，第一步具体包括什么呢？
So what goes into that foundation, like, very first step?
毕竟不是每个人都有机会加入一家公司。
Because, you know, not everyone is going to be in a position where they can go into a firm.
有些听这个的人，可能完全是自己摸索，尤其是在刚开始的时候。
Some of these people, who are listening to this are going to be trying to work this out on their own, especially in the very beginning.
比如，当你决定想试试看做交易的时候。
Like, when you decide that, you know, I'd like to give this trading thing a shot.
你甚至可能都没听说过杠杆交易公司。
You you may not even know about prop firms.
那你这时候最该往脑子里装些什么呢？
So what sort of things would you be wanting to, like, fill your head with?
因为现在相关信息实在太多了。
Because there's a lot of content.
网上有很多资源。
There's a lot of resources online.
有些质量真的很高。
You know, some of it's really great.
但也有一些并不怎么样。
Some of it's maybe not so great.
那你最该关注哪些内容呢？
What are the things which you want to focus on?
对我们来说，要打下坚实的基础，有几个关键原则。
So for us, there there are certain principles that go into a really sound solid foundation.
我在《One Good Trade》和《The Playbook》里都提到过这些。
So I wrote a little bit about that in One Good Trade, wrote a little bit of that in The Playbook.
但你想想去健身房，我请了私人教练，他总跟我说一句话，我交易导师也总这么说：一切都要从稳固的核心开始。
But, you know, if you go to the gym, I actually have a trainer, and I will I will say to you what my trader is always saying to me, which is it all starts with a really solid core.
所以不管我们做哪个动作，哪怕是划船机，他都会提醒我：一定要把核心收紧。
And so every exercise we do, even if we're doing, like, lat pull downs, he's always like, make sure you're focusing on your core being solid.
如果你交易时没有扎实的基础，没有稳固的核心，就别指望能有好结果。
And so if you're trading and you don't have a really solid foundation, a really solid core, you're not getting good results.
你练得再多也没用。
You're not getting good reps.
所以，一笔好的交易，基础应该包括什么？比如说，你有没有认真思考这笔交易？
So a a good foundation for a particular trade, one good trade would be, you know, are you thinking through the trade properly?
你有没有控制好风险？
Are you controlling your risk?
这只股票真的值得入手吗？
Is it a good stock to be in?
技术面是不是配合得上？
Are the technicals aligning?
背后有没有新闻催化剂？
Is there a news catalyst behind it?
整体上有没有一个清晰的逻辑支撑？
Is there a thesis overall behind it?
对于新手交易者来说，关键在于培养技能。
And for, you know, the new trader, it really is about developing skills.
这本质上是一场技能的较量。
This is a skill game.
你得学会技术分析。
So you need to learn technical analysis.
你得搞清楚哪些新闻消息会影响股价。
You need to learn what news catalysts move stocks.
你得根据自己的账户情况，选择适合交易的股票类型。
You need to learn the types of stocks you ought to be trading given your account.
你得清楚自己在日内交易中能承受多大的风险。
You need to be understanding what your risk tolerance can be on an intraday level.
你得有个靠谱的交易平台，能让你顺利进出股票。
You need to have a decent platform that can get you in and out of stocks the right way.
你得跟那些能给你提供交易思路的人保持联系。
You wanna be doing being connected to to people who are giving you ideas.
对我们来说，有趣的是，2005年刚创办SMB的时候，我们招募交易员的方式和现在完全不同。
And for us, what's interesting is that when we first started SMB in 2005, the way that we brought traders in was very different than the way we bring traders in today.
所以每年我们都会更新培训内容，就在去年，我们在交易员发展项目的第二阶段新增了一个关于自动化交易的完整模块。
And so for us, you know, our training is revamped every year, and then just even last year for the second part of our training program, trader development, we implemented a whole new section on automated trading.
如今新来的交易员，不再只是打算走主观交易这条路，他们可以选择成为主观交易员、自动化交易员，或者我们说的混合型交易员。
And so when guys are coming in today, they're not just coming in with a career path of being a discretionary trader, but they're coming in with an option to be a discretionary trader or an automated trader or what we call a hybrid trader.
在交易员发展项目中，我跟我们的纽约量化主管、斯滕巴格博士、场内主管，还有我的合伙人史蒂夫·斯宾塞一起，设计了一套全新的培训体系，教大家如何从自动化交易起步，如何回测、前测，如何生成交易想法，同时在提升主观交易能力的同时，也同步发展自动化交易的技能。
And so in trader development, I sat down with our head quanta New York and doctor Steenbarger and our floor manager and my partner, Steve Spencer, and we put together a new training program on teaching people how to start as an automated trader, how to backtest, how to forward test, how to come up with ideas, and while they're working on the discretionary trading skills to also be working on their development as an automated trader.
明白了。
Okay.
你们的量化主管是不是摩根·斯莱德？
Who's your head quant with that happen to be Morgan Slide?
摩根负责整个公司的量化交易，常驻芝加哥。
So Morgan runs quantitative trading for Cloud Quant, which which would be for the entire firm, and then he sits in Chicago.
而在纽约，我们还有一位量化主管，专门帮助这里的资深交易员和新人，因为技术这块其实分为三个部分。
And then in New York City, we have a head quant who helps all of the experienced guys here and all of the newer guys here for there's really three parts to technology here.
首先是有筛选，你怎么编写脚本，才能提醒你发现最好的交易机会？
There's filtering, so how do you how do you build scripts that will alert you to your best setups?
确实有这些脚本。
There are scripts.
你怎么让机器帮你进场，然后自己用主观判断来平仓？
How do you just get into a particular trade that the machine gets you into and then you trade out of with discretion?
第三，是能够构建自动化交易模型。
And then thirdly, being able to build automated models.
我们有专人帮助大家做这件事，同时培训刚加入的新交易员。
And so, we have somebody who and then and we have somebody who helps people with that and then trains the newer guys who are who are coming in.
说到交易员发展的初期阶段，依你看，有没有哪些资产类别特别适合新手交易员？
Now as we're still speaking about, you know, this very beginning phase, of a trader's development, in your own opinion, do you believe there are certain asset classes which are best suited for new traders?
这要看你是自己独立交易，还是在自营公司交易，又或者是在机构里交易。
Well, I think that it really depends on whether or not you're trading as a self directed trader, whether or not you're trading at a prop firm, whether or not you're trading at institution.
我相信每个人都有自己最适合的资产类别。最近我在为纽约一场分享会做演示时，就做了一个小实验，提出了一个我们叫‘百万美元交易员公式’的东西。
I certainly believe that there's a best asset class for you, And so as fun experiment, while I was putting together a presentation for a chat that I did recently in New York, I came up with something we call the the million dollar trader trading formula.
我纯粹是出于好玩，列出了人们应该思考的几个关键因素，看看自己能不能成为一年净赚一百万美元的交易员。
And I I, as for fun, came up with the variables that people ought to be thinking about for can they become or how how do they become somebody who can make a million dollars in a year net.
对我来说，第一步是拥有成长型思维，然后对交易充满热情，再打下扎实的训练基础，最后去尝试各种不同的交易模式。
And, you know, the first part to that to me was having a growth mindset and then having a passion for trading, and then having a really solid training foundation, and then experimenting with different types of setups.
等你尝试过多种模式之后，就要慢慢聚焦到某个细分领域，并证明自己在这个领域确实有交易优势。
And after you develop, after you experiment with different types of setups, to start to gravitate towards a niche, and to show that you have trading edge in that particular niche.
接着要不断提升在这个细分领域的训练水平，加大优势交易的仓位，同时具备天赋，善用科技在市场中更主动地出击，还要有耐心熬过学习曲线，足够坚持才能一年净赚一百万。
And to work on getting better training to come better at that particular niche, plus really trading your a plus setups bigger, plus having talent, plus using technology to play more offense in markets, plus being patient with how long it's gonna take for you to survive a learning curve, or to become good enough to to to make a million bucks net in a year, plus perseverance.
所有这些因素加在一起，就是我为一年赚百万的交易员总结出的一套有趣公式。
And and all of those things together is my fun way of coming up with a formula for a million dollar a year trader.
在这个框架里，我们提到了细分领域这个概念。
And so, you know, inside of that, we touched upon niche.
我们公司主要做的是活跃的股票交易。
And one of the things that we do at our firm is and we're an active equities trading firm.
我们也会交易其他品种，但绝大部分业务还是集中在活跃的股票交易上。
We we do trade other products, but a majority of what we do is active equities trading.
有趣的是，我们公司里那些业绩最好的交易员，每个人的交易方式都不一样。
And what's interesting is that the the larger producers at our firm, they all trade differently.
他们虽然都来自同一个培训项目，交易风格却各不相同。
They may all trade they they certainly all come from the same training program.
我们招聘的方式也一样，但我们会让人接触各种不同的盈利模式——比如交易小盘股、大盘股、高贝塔股、短线交易、技术分析交易、国际套利、并购套利、只做空、只做多、混合型交易，或者捕捉市场无效性。
They're all hired the same way, but they we expose people to different ways that active traders make money, whether that's trading low floats, whether that's trading large caps, whether that's trading high beta, whether that's scalping, whether that's trading as a technical trader, whether that's international ARB, whether that's M and A work, whether that's only shorting, whether that's only getting long, whether that's being a a hybrid trader, whether that's being inefficiency trader.
作为交易员，赚钱的路子其实多得数不清。
There's there's so many different ways to to make money as a trader.
对你来说，一定有一种最适合的方式，关键是你得自己去摸索，找到真正适合你的专长领域，这样才能知道自己能走多远。所以大家常会接着问：那你怎么知道自己该选哪个方向？
And so there certainly is a best way for you, and there certainly needs to be you discovering what your niche is to find out how good you're going to be, and so people always ask me the next logical question, which is how do you find what your niche is going to be?
我觉得你必须去尝试，很多人往往在网上找了个资源，学得不顺，就直接放弃，觉得‘我根本不需要学这些’。
I do think you have to experiment, and I do think that people oftentimes will go to a resource online and take that resource online, not do well with that resource, that learning, and then conclude that I don't need to learn anything.
其实可能不是学习没用，而是那个资源不适合你的天赋和思维方式。
I just have to learn everything myself when maybe the conclusion is that resource wasn't best for my talents and for the way that I think.
你真的得多试几种不同的交易方式，而且这些方式都得是有优势的。
You really do have to expose yourself to lots of different ways to trade, and those have to be ways with edge.
所以我们就这么做。
And then and so we do that.
以下是那些活跃日内交易员靠它赚大钱的交易模式。
So here are the setups that we know guys make a lot of money as active intraday traders.
现在去试试这些模式。
Now go try them.
接着，去衡量一下你用这些模式的结果。
Now go measure your results on them.
接下来我们聊聊怎么把这些模式交易得更好。
Now let's talk about how you can trade them better.
其实并没有绝对统一的方法，这跟你所在的公司类型有很大关系。
You know, that there's there's not necessarily and that's going to depend on what kind of a firm you're at.
对你来说，肯定有一种最适合的方式，我举个例子：我刚入行的时候，我们大量做超短线交易。
So there's definitely a best way for you, and I'll give you a good example, you know, when I first started trading, we did a lot of scalping.
现在来这里的很多人，其实并不具备今天做超短线交易所需的能力。
We have a lot of guys who come through here right now who don't really have the they don't have the skills to succeed today as a as a scalper.
那也没关系，他们可以转向其他类型的交易。
So that's fine, then they can gravitate towards a different type of trading.
如果你是个人交易者，肯定会经历一段摸索和学习的过程。
And so, you know, if you are a retail trader, there's going to be that experiment and learning curve.
如果你是公司交易员，将来也会经历类似的摸索和学习阶段。
If you're a prop trader, there's going to be that learning and experimental phase down the line.
我们能不能回头再讲讲你刚才说的那个公式的第一部分？
Can we just go back and pick up on, I think it was the first part of that formula you described.
你提到要有成长型思维。
You mentioned about having a growth mindset.
能再详细说说吗？
Can you go into that a little more?
成长型思维到底是什么意思？
What does a growth mindset mean?
这个指的是什么？
What's that referring to?
我们推荐交易员在加入我们公司之前读一本特别棒的书，作者是卡罗尔·德韦克教授，书名叫《心态》，真的非常出色。
So there's a really great book that we recommend traders read before they actually show up at our firm, and it was written by Carol Dweck who is a professor, and she wrote this book called Mindset, and a really, really great book.
这本书的核心观点是，我拿交易来举个例子。
And the book essentially, the hypothesis is that if you come into I'll I'll apply it to trading.
如果你一进入交易市场，就觉得自己的天赋决定一切，那这就是固定型心态。
If you come into trading and you think that your talent and your talent alone is going to dictate how you do as a trader, that's called a fixed mindset.
如果你觉得，我现在表现怎么样，只是现在的状态，但明天我可以做得更好。
If you come into trading and think, well, how I'm doing right now is how I'm doing right now, but I can be better tomorrow.
只要我做对某些事，就能进步很多，那就是成长型心态。
And if I do ABC, then I can be a lot better, then that's a growth mindset.
我们在公司发现，拥有成长型心态的交易员，往往能取得非常大的成功。
And we found at our firm that the traders who have a growth mindset become very very successful traders.
举个例子，每年年底，我们都会让交易员设定自己的年度目标。
And a great example of that is at the end of the year, this year, we ask our traders to come up with their yearly goals.
2016年的时候，有一位交易员——我后面会提到他在2018年的目标——当时他拿到了一件绿色衬衫。
And in 2016, one of our traders who I'm gonna talk about their yearly goals in 2018 for, this particular trader earned a green shirt.
在我们公司，如果一年的交易利润达到一百万美元，就能获得一件绿色衬衫。
And at our firm, if you net a million dollars in trading profits for a year, you get a green shirt.
能达到这个水平，是很大的荣誉。
It's a it's a it's a big honor to be able to hit this hit this level.
到了2017年，这位交易员又拿到了一件黑色衬衫。
And in 2017, this trader earned a black shirt.
黑色衬衫的门槛是全年交易利润超过两百万美元。
And a black shirt is when a trader nets $2,000,000 plus in trading profits for the year.
这位交易员在2016年已经非常出色，到了2017年更是更上一层楼。
And so a trader was very successful in 2016 and got even better in 2017.
他在制定2017年的目标时说，从更大的角度看，我也在考虑如何一步步成为年入一千万美元的交易员。
And when he sat down to come up with his yearly goals for 2017, he said, bigger picture, I'm also thinking about making the incremental steps to be a $10,000,000 a year trader.
他想成为的就是这样的人。
That's what he wants to be.
所以他并不满足于只当一个穿黑色衬衫的交易员。
And so he's not settling for being a black shirt trader.
他开始思考自己需要做些什么，并且真正行动起来，为实现下一阶段的成长做准备。
He is starting to think about the things that he needs to do and starting to do the work that he needs to do to hit that next level in his development.
这样的人，才是真正拥有成长型思维的人。
That's somebody who has a growth mindset.
你觉得交易员中，大多数人天然就具备你说的这种成长型思维吗？
Do you find that most people in trading naturally have what you would call a a growth mindset?
不。
No.
完全不是。
Absolutely not.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
我确实觉得有不少交易员有成长型思维，但说实话，不是每个人都有。
I I definitely think there are a lot of traders that that have a growth mindset, but no, I I don't think everyone has a growth mindset.
我觉得，虽然人们具备成长型思维更好，但确实有些交易员天赋异禀，即使没有成长型思维，也能取得成功，不过有这种思维还是好得多。
I I also think while it's preferable that people have a growth mindset that people, there are traders that are so talented that the fact that they don't have a growth mindset also doesn't stop them, but it's but it's highly preferable.
这对你很有利。
It works in your favor.
确实如此。
Very much so.
你觉得交易员们可能会遇到哪些意想不到的挑战？
What would you say are some of the challenges that traders are gonna come up against, which they may not be expecting.
显然，任何入行几个月的人都该明白，总会遇到亏钱的阶段，那确实很难熬。
Obviously, anyone who's come into trade and been knocking about for a few months by that point should realize that, you know, that there's gonna be periods where they lose money, and it's it's very difficult in that.
但以你的经验，作为这家公司的负责人，你见证了大量交易员的成长轨迹。
But in your situation and and having the experience that you do, running the firm, you're seeing the paths of a lot of traders, develop.
你觉得他们通常会遇到哪些意想不到的挑战？
What are some of the challenges which they may come up against, which are often unexpecting?
最近波动率的变化就是一个很好的例子。
Well, think the recent change in volatility is a great example of that.
对吧？
Right?
过去五年一直到2017年底，我们看到市场一直处于历史性的低波动状态。
So for the last five years into the end of twenty seventeen, we saw a market that had historically low volatility.
你知道，VIX指数一度低于10。
You know, VIX was under 10.
在那段低波动的时期，很多原本很出色的长期交易者都遇到了很大困难。
And when we had that period of historically low volatility, there are a lot of very talented long term producers who really struggled.
他们之所以特别吃力，是因为当大盘股的波动达不到他们策略所需的程度时，业绩就明显落后了。
And they really struggled because when the large caps weren't moving with the volatility that they needed for their strategies to work, they very much underperformed.
所以2017年，我们那一年表现非常好。
And so in 2017, we had a really great year.
成绩相当不错。
We did very well.
对我们的进展，我们非常满意。
We were very, very happy with our progress.
我会把这一年称为超额表现的一年。
I would term it as a year of outperformance.
接着我们进入了几个月波动率上升的时期，我在最近的一篇博客里提到过，一旦波动率上升，交易员通常能赚更多钱。
And then we walked into some months where volatility picked up, and I wrote about this in a recent blog post, and when volatility picks up, generally traders ought to make a lot more money.
机会变多了，市场一动起来，交易机会就跟着多，这对交易员最有利。
There's more opportunity, movement breeds more opportunity, which is best for traders.
回头看看像二月这样的月末，我们的盈亏表现其实还不错，但赚钱的方式有点难以持续，没能充分利用整体市场的波动。
And when I look back at end of month, like for a particular month like February, we ended up putting together a pretty solid P and L month for ourselves, but we we made money in a way that was a little bit unsustaining, and we didn't make and take advantage of the overall market volatility as well as we should have.
所以真正的挑战，是从低波动市场转向高波动市场。
And so the challenge is going from a low volatility market to a high volatility market.
对我们来说，就是从交易特定股票，转向交易整个市场，比如买卖SPY、Qs、VXX和UVXY这些产品。
And in our case, going from trading unique sets of stocks to trading the overall market to to trading SPY and trading Qs and trading VXX and trading UVXY.
也就是交易波动率产品、大盘指数产品，以及更多与市场挂钩的大型股票。
So trading the volatility products, trading the the the overall market products, trading more large cap stocks related to the market.
我当时就认为——我也在文章里写过——我们在面对这样的机会时，表现得不够好。
I thought, and and I wrote this, I thought we underperformed relative to the opportunity set.
我们勉强实现了盈利，但对没能充分抓住机会这一点，我很不满意。
We squeaked it out in terms of P and L success, but I didn't like the way that we didn't take advantage of enough of the opportunity.
所以我们一直在跟团队聊这个问题。
So we've been talking about that to our guys.
我们跟他们说，你们得关注这些工具，斯滕巴格医生给了我们很大帮助，不断提醒他们哪些工具在交易大盘时最有效。
We've been talking about, hey, here are some of the tools that you ought to be looking at, and doctor Steenbarger has been very helpful to our guys in reminding them and and putting in front of them ideas for tools that work best when you're trading the overall market.
这里有几个关键工具，你们必须认真去了解，才能做好大盘交易。
So, you know, here are here are four or five tools that you really need to be looking at to trade the overall market.
要转变心态，别再死守以前那些股票，得转向新的标的，才能真正抓住这次机会。
And getting into that mindset to move away from some of those stocks that you had been had been trading to to new ones and being able to outperform this opportunity set.
这真的不容易。
That's challenging.
你花了五六年时间在低波动市场里打磨策略，现在突然告诉你：得去交易那些你过去六年一直躲着的东西，因为它们以前不管用。
It's a very difficult thing to spend five, six years in a low volatility market and develop trading strategies to outperform in that low volatility market, and then be told, oh, you gotta you gotta go trade all these things that you've been staying away from for six years because they weren't working.
你得一头扎进去，而且还得下重注。
And and you're gonna have to dive in, and you're gonna have to dive in with size.
这确实不容易。
That's a hard thing to do.
你觉得你们表现不佳的原因是什么？你说上个月成绩还算不错，但没达到应有的水平，整个公司二月份可能整体表现不如预期。
Would you say that the reason that you underperformed you know, you said you still did a had a good month, but it wasn't as good as it could have been, and you felt as though, the firm as a whole, perhaps under the underperformed in February.
不过这种情况其实也正常。
That would be expected, though.
对吧？
Right?
就像你之前说的，过去五六年波动率一直很低，结果突然间，一夜之间就变了。
Like, because as you've described, there was five or so years where volatility was very low, and then it was almost like overnight, it suddenly just changed.
所以很多人措手不及，也是情理之中。
So naturally, that's gonna catch a lot of people off guard.
我觉得短时间内可以理解，但你问交易员面临的挑战是什么，说实话，你必须学会适应。
Well, I I I think that's okay for a little bit of time, but, you know, you asked what the challenges are for a trader, and I'm sorry, but you gotta be able to adapt.
你得能随时调整策略。
You gotta be able to shift gears.
我们所有人都坐在一起说，得跟着大盘走，必须得拿出成绩来。
And, you know, all of us were sitting around saying, hey, we gotta be trading the overall market, and you gotta be able to perform.
这是一门靠表现说话的行当。
This is a performance sport.
我们这儿的这些人，我相信外面很多交易员也都明白，根本没什么借口可找。
And our guys here, and and I'm sure a lot of guys, you know, out there understand that there's there are no excuses.
一旦表现不好，就得自己说出来。
When you underperform, you say it.
表现不好时，要主动分析原因，然后采取行动，避免下次再犯。
When you underperform, you run through the reasons why you did, and you take the steps so you don't going forward.
你绝对不能坐那儿说，没错，是挺难的，但你得赶紧翻篇，快速调整提升，不然机会就真没了。
And you certainly don't want to sit back and say, oh, it was, you know, it was hard, you're right, but you got to get over that and start getting better and adapting real fast, or else you're gonna you're gonna lose that opportunity.
对。
Yeah.
再回到成长型思维这个话题，我觉得特别有意思，我想再问一个相关的问题。
Just going back to speaking about a growth mindset, I think this is a really cool topic to go into, so I just wanna ask one more question around that.
我还想补充一点，我不是想打断你，亚伦，但我想说的是，市场波动加剧不只是幅度变大，低波动环境下的股票和高波动环境下的SPY、QQQ、UVXY、VIX这些品种，它们的交易行为其实有本质区别。
I would say one more thing, which is and and I do think I don't mean to cut you off, Aaron, but I I would say one more thing, which is it's not just that the volatility is spikes, there's a very real difference between the stocks that you're trading in a low volatility market and how they trade, And SPY, Qs, UVXY, VIX, and how those trade even in a high volatility market.
你得接受这一点。
And you you need to embrace that.
它们不会像你在低波动期表现优异的那些股票那样流畅或方向明确。
They're they're not going to trade as fluidly or as directionally as some of the other stocks that you were outperforming in a low volatility market.
所以，除了关注正确的指标、调整心态去应对不同产品之外，你还要正视波动飙升带来的实际优势变化，这一点非常关键。
And so there's there are real edge issues that you need to embrace on top of looking at the right indicators, on top of having the mindset to attack different products because the volatility has spiked that that is very important.
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你的评估标准只有一条：能否稳定地管理风险并执行交易。
You're evaluated on one thing, your ability to manage risk and execute with consistency.
达到标准，就能大规模交易。
Meet the standard and you trade at scale.
没有订阅费，也没有长期绑定。
No subscriptions, no ongoing commitments.
无论你还在打磨策略，是已有经验却尚未突破的交易者，还是寻求更多资金的资深专业人士，Trade the Pool 都能根据你的现状，助你更进一步。
Whether you're still refining your strategy, a trader with experience who hasn't yet broken through, or a seasoned professional simply looking for more capital, Trade the Pool is built to meet you where you are and take you that next step further.
市场在变，获取渠道在变，交易者操作的方式也跟着升级了。
The markets have evolved, access has evolved, now so has the way traders operate within them.
Trade the Pool。
Trade the pool.
说到成长型思维，我记得你好像还在邮件签名里写过这句话。
So as we're talking about the growth mindset, and this is something which, you say I think you even sign your emails off with it.
明天的你，一定会比今天更好。
You can be better tomorrow than you are today.
这正好契合成长型思维的理念。
And that ties in with the growth mindset.
我的意思是，交易员到底该怎么把这一点落实到行动中呢？
I mean, how how can traders actually put that into practice?
比如说，他们今天能做些什么，才能为明天带来帮助？
You know, like, what what is that something they can be doing today which is gonna help them tomorrow?
你是怎么看待这个问题的？又该怎么每天都实际应用呢？
Like, how do you think about that and actually apply that every day?
听起来是不错，但具体该怎么操作呢？
Like, it's it sounds good, but how do you actually put that into practice?
有哪些切实可行的步骤，能确保你今天做的事真正帮到明天？然后就这么不断重复下去？
Like, what what are some actionable steps to make sure that whatever you're doing today is gonna help you tomorrow and then it, you know, rinse and repeat?
我觉得我们在2016年表现得相当不错。
So I thought we did pretty well in 2016.
在准备2017年的时候，我记得跟斯汀巴格医生聊过。
And as we were preparing for 2017, I remember talking with Doctor.
我们很幸运能和他合作，他在纽约这边的很多工作上都起了关键作用。
Steenbarger who we're really lucky to be able to work with, and he's very instrumental in a lot of the things that we do here in New York.
于是我和斯滕巴格医生聊了聊，
And so was talking with Doctor.
他说我们2016年做得不错，但2017年怎么才能做得更好？
Steenbarger about, alright, did pretty well in 2016, but how are we going to do better in 2017?
他想到一个办法，让顶尖交易员每天把业绩报告发给他和我，由我们来提供指导和辅导。
And he came up with an idea to start to ask the top traders to send the daily report card to him and to me, and for us to provide mentoring and coaching.
他负责指导，我也参与大量辅导工作。
So he would provide the mentoring and also coaching, and I would provide a lot of the coaching as well.
我主要关注他们所交易股票的具体细节，而他则关注整体表现和市场交易策略。
I would stick to the ins and outs of the stocks that these guys were writing about, and he would stick to performance overall and the overall market trading that some guys are doing.
于是我采纳了这个想法，把它落实成一个叫‘每日业绩报告’的练习。
And so we developed so I took that idea and ran with it, and we developed an exercise called the daily report card.
这绝对是我们在2017年最有效的工具。
And it was hands down the MVP of 2017 for our firm.
2017年我们最核心的工具，就是每日业绩报告。
The MVP of 2017 was the daily report card.
我在一场名为‘交易员为善’的慈善活动上谈到了这个做法，并整理出了一套实施流程。
And I spoke about this at a charity event, Traders for a Cause, and created an outline for how we do this.
在那场慈善活动上，我向在场的交易员们提出了一个挑战。
And and and at that charity event, I said, you know, I challenged the guys in the room.
我说，如果每个交易时段结束后，你们不只是汇报盈亏，而是提交一份交易评估报告，会怎么样？
I said, what if at the end of each trading session, you posted a trading report card and not just your trading p and l?
如果这种做法能成为在线交易圈里的标杆实践，会怎么样？
And what if this became a prominent best practice for the online trading community?
要是这份评估报告只聚焦于一个每月目标，会怎么样？
You know, what if the report card focused on one monthly goal?
比如仓位管理、操作一致性、拓展交易策略，或者控制亏损。
Perhaps sizing or consistency, perhaps expanding your playbook, perhaps limiting losses.
这份报告就是你每天在目标上的进展记录。
The report card would be your daily progress report on that goal.
你还会为每个交易时段在该目标上的表现打个分数。
And you'd give yourself a grade for the trading session on that goal.
所以你选一个目标，集中精力去突破，这才是关键。
And so you pick one goal, you work on it intensively, and that's key.
你要全神贯注地打磨这个目标。
You work intensively on this goal.
你要想办法解决这个问题，而不是光说‘今天仓位没拿好，下次该多押一点’。
You develop solutions to achieve this goal, so you don't just say, I messed up in sizing today, I should have been bigger.
那下次你怎么才能拿得更准呢？
Well, how are you going to get bigger the next time?
你具体打算怎么改进，才能下次把仓位做得更好？
What are your solutions to get bigger the next time?
每次训练结束后，你都要为这个目标完成一份进度报告。
And you complete a report card at the end of each training session on the progress for that one goal.
对我们来说，2017年最核心的工具就是每日报告卡。
So for us, the MVP of 2017 was the daily report card.
如果你真想在交易上进步，我建议你坚持做这个每日报告卡的练习。
And for guys who are thinking about growing as a trader, I'd recommend that they do that exercise to do that daily report card.
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我知道你和奥斯汀是好朋友，他是悉尼的一名对冲基金交易员，每天都把他的每日报告发到网上。
And I know you're good friends with Austin who is a Sydney based hedge fund trader, and he posts his daily report card online every day.
我觉得他是个非常了不起的榜样。
And I think he's a tremendous role model.
他是一位出色且非常成功的交易员。
He's a terrific and very successful trader.
他把盈亏情况公开在网上，你就能清楚看到他有多厉害。
Posting his P and L online, you can you can see how good he is.
他对所有想提升交易水平的人来说，都是绝佳的榜样。
And he's a great role model for everyone out there as to how to grow as a trader.
是的。
Yeah.
毫无疑问。
Without a doubt.
我也经常读他的每日报告。
I I often read his, daily report cards as well.
挺不错的。
It's quite good.
我是说，他把报告整理得很有条理，列出了当天交易或持有的股票，还对每只股票写了简短点评。你觉得这种做法好吗？还是每个人都要找到适合自己的方式来写每日报告？
I mean, the way he sets them out and structures his card by sort of listing the stocks that he's traded that day or holding positions in, and then kind of writing a short blurb about each, is that the way that you'd suggest to do it, or does everyone kinda need to find their own way of sort of putting together a daily report card?
我觉得你说得对，找到适合自己的方式永远是最好的。
I think I like your idea a lot, which is finding your own way is is is always best.
事实上，有些人可能根本不需要写下来，跟交易伙伴口头复盘一下就够了。
And in fact, it might be best for people not to write down a daily report card, maybe just verbalize it to a trading buddy.
总之，这些练习都要个性化，这才是最有效的。
So there's individualizing these exercises is always best.
别忘了，他是个经验非常丰富的交易员，他的报告水平自然远高于新手。
And remember, he's a very advanced trader, so his report card is going to be at a much higher level than a new trader.
他可是七位数级别的交易员，你在做自己的报告时，也得考虑这一点。
He's obviously a 7 figure trader, so you want to think about that too when you're thinking about putting your report card together.
对于新手来说，我觉得最重要的是先建立一套每日的固定流程。
A newer guy, I think you wanna you wanna think about a general thing for a newer guy would be to develop a daily process.
你知道吗，你一整天要做哪些事才能进步？
You know, what are all the things you're gonna do during the day to get better?
然后你完成这些事了吗？
And then did you complete them?
你去健身房了吗？
Did you go to the gym?
你吃得好吗？
Did you eat well?
你按时起床了吗？
Did you wake up on time?
你按时睡觉了吗？
Did you go to bed at the right time?
你做了你 playbook 里的交易吗？
Did you do your playbook trade?
你看了你的图表集了吗？
You do your book of charts.
你收盘后会看你的图表。
You do your charts after the close.
你今天跟朋友聊过交易的事吗？
Did you talk to your buddies about trading?
你今天交易的股票数量合适吗？
Did you trade the right amount of stocks during the day?
你为开盘做好准备了吗？
Did you prepare for the open?
所有这些事情。
All of those things.
你得花点时间照顾自己，让自己感觉良好。
You spend some time on yourself to to feel good about yourself.
对于新手来说，坚持每天的流程通常很有帮助。
Coming up at the daily process is generally a good thing for the newer guys.
你觉得把自己的每日表现跟别人分享重要吗？
Do you think it's important to share your daily report card with someone?
我知道奥斯汀每天都把他的报告发在推特上。
I know Austin posts his on Twitter every day.
即使不发推特，你觉得至少应该跟别人或者一群人分享一下吗？
Even if it's not on Twitter, do you think it's at least important to share it with, somebody else or a group of people?
因为如果你这么做，跟自己写完就塞抽屉里，完全是两回事。
Or you know, because it's very different if you do that compared to just kinda writing it for yourself and sticking it in the drawer.
你是懂的吧？
You know?
你怎么看这个？
How do you feel about that?
2018年我们做得不错的一点，就是团队交易能力提升了。对我们来说，团队交易就是——前几天我读了你的一篇文章，你提到布莱尔·赫尔，他说过，这个世界上所有了不起的事，都是团队完成的，不是个人单打独斗。
So one of the things that we did pretty well in 2018 is we got better at team trading, and so team trading to us is and I was reading one of your posts the other day, and you talked about Blair Hull, and and he stated he he has a philosophy that all great things happen in our world, happen with teams, not with individuals.
对。
Mhmm.
我们也认同这一点，当你和一群人一起工作时，你会成为一个更好的交易员。
And we agree with that here, which is you're gonna be a better trader when you're working in a team with other people around you.
我觉得你们2018年做得不错的一点，就是团队交易。
And I think one of the things you did well in 2018 was was team trading.
我们交易台的资深交易员每天都会把他的业绩报告发给我和斯滕巴格博士。
And so our senior trader on a desk, He will send his daily report card to myself and Doctor.
还有他团队里的所有人。
Steenbarger and then all of the people on his team.
我会对他的每日报告给出我的反馈，斯滕巴格博士也会回复。
And I will respond with my thoughts on that person's daily report card, and Doctor.
斯滕巴格博士也会给出他的意见。
Steenbarger will respond as well.
这样，初级交易员就能看到资深交易员在关注什么，以及他是怎么找到解决方案、推动进步的。
And it gives the junior traders the opportunity to see what the senior trader is working on and see the solutions that the senior trader is coming up with to make progress.
更棒的是，这种方式也让资深交易员对自己的表现负责。
And what's what's really great about that as well is that it holds a senior trader accountable.
资深交易员知道，自己不能随便应付，因为下面的年轻人会看到，而且他知道每天结束前必须写报告、复盘当天的情况，这反而让他更少出错。
The senior trader knows he can't mess up because the junior guys are gonna see it, and it it helps him not mess up as much because he knows he's gotta write a daily report card at the end of the day and talk about his day.
所以呢，如果一位资深交易员在处理比如避免亏太多钱的情况，很多人会谈到交易的‘前段’。
And so, you know, if the senior trader is working on, for instance, not losing too much money when so a a lot of guys will talk about what's called the front side of a trade.
比如说一只股票涨得太猛了，他们觉得迟早会回调，于是趁它还在涨的时候就做空。
So there's a stock, and it's going up too much, and they think it's going to turn around and and pull in.
这种操作就叫在强势中做空，也就是在价格还在上涨的时候就进场做空。
And they'll short the stock on what's called the front side, meaning it's still going up and they're going to short into strength.
这其实挺常见的，尤其是对我们这样的大交易员来说。去年我们最好的一位交易员，我们就专门针对这个问题下了很大功夫——他总是在前段亏太多钱。
And so, you know, it's a pretty common thing for a very large trader that we in fact, you know, one of our best traders last year, we worked on this pretty hard, is that he was losing too much money in the front side.
他最终是能赚回来的，但为了赚20万，他先亏了5万。
He was gonna make all the money back eventually, but he was drawn down 50,000 to make 200,000.
我们想做的，是根据不同的交易策略，调整这些数字。
And what we wanted to do and depending on the play, those numbers would vary.
我们希望他前段亏得少一点，等股票真正显出疲态、动能开始反转、趋势真正站在他这边的时候，再加大后段的仓位，赚更多钱。
But what we wanted to do is have him less lose less on the front side and then be able to have more risk on the backside of the trade when the stock is really showing the weakness, when the momentum is actually starting to go down, when the momentum is with you to be able to make more money.
所以，如果我是一位资深交易员，我给自己设了个规则：前段最多只能亏1万美元，那就绝对不能超过这个数。
And so if I'm a senior trader and I know that I've committed to a risk rule for how much I can lose in the front side, say $10,000, I can't lose more than $10,000 in the front side.
我已经把这一点写进了我的每日复盘报告，这对我的职业成长至关重要。
And I've written that in my daily report card, and this is important to my progress as a senior trader.
要是哪天亏了三万美元，这份记录就会逼你直面问题。
And then on a day I've lost $30,000, well, it holds you accountable.
你为什么没遵守自己的风险规则？
You know, why didn't you follow your risk rule?
接下来你得做些什么，才能确保第二天不再违反风险规则？
Now what are the things you need to do to make sure you don't violate your risk rule the next day?
这类习惯对交易员，尤其是资深交易员的盈亏表现影响巨大。
And those types of things really add to your p and l, when when you're a trader and and when you're a big trader.
你刚才还提到给每日复盘打分。
You also mentioned grading your daily report card.
这也很关键吗？
Is that a big part of it as well?
你具体是怎么给这份报告打分的？
And how do you actually think about grading the report card?
这真的非常重要。
It's a it it is a big thing.
不同的交易员做法也不一样。
And so different traders do this differently.
有些人会给自己打A、B、C、D、E或F，而另一些交易员只做自己交易计划里的单子，我觉得这对新手交易员来说挺常见的。
Some people give themselves an a b c d e or f, and another trader who is working on only taking trades in their playbook, I think this is probably something common for developing traders.
我写的第二本书叫《交易计划》，核心观点是：交易员得把自己的交易当成一门生意来经营，然后按这门生意的方式去交易。
So the second book that I wrote was The Playbook, and the thesis of The Playbook is that traders need to develop a trading business and they ought to trade their trading business.
这门生意应该由你最擅长、最熟悉的股票和交易模式组成。
And the trading business should be made up of stocks, of setups that they like the most.
我们团队每天收盘后都会做一件事：每个交易员选出当天最符合自己思路的一笔交易，存档下来。
So an exercise we do on our desk is at the end of each day, our traders will archive a setup that made the most sense to them.
存档的方式，我们叫它‘交易计划格式’。
The way that they archive it is in what we call playbook form.
他们会把这笔交易的关键变量都写下来。
They write down the variables of the trade.
所以今天，他们可能对匹配网这个机会特别感兴趣。
So today, maybe they're really interested in the match.com opportunity.
Facebook宣布要进军约会领域。
Facebook announces that they're gonna get into the dating space.
那匹配网会怎么样？
What happens to match?
股价暴跌了。
Tanked.
我们把这个叫做突发新闻交易。
We'll call that a breaking news trade.
所以像今天这样的日子，结束后我们要把这种突发新闻交易记录下来。
So let's archive after a day like today, a breaking news trade.
当时影响这笔交易的所有因素都有哪些？
What are all the variables that went into it?
当时有个新闻催化剂。
There was a news catalyst.
这是技术面的情况。
Here's what the technicals looked like.
这是盘口的走势。
Here's what the tape looked like.
这是日内图表的样子。
Here's what the intraday chart looked like.
这是我能做的几笔交易。
Here are the trades that I could make.
现在我们把这些内容整合到我们的交易策略里。
And let's now take that and put that into our overall playbook.
接下来我们会把这类形态都纳入策略，这就是我们的交易体系。
And then we'll have a series of these types of setups that we'll put into our playbook and that's our business.
我们只做这些交易。
We trade those trades.
其他交易我们一概不做。
We don't trade other trades.
我们只交易那些列入交易计划中的单子。
We trade those trades that we put in our playbook.
所以交易员每天做复盘时，都会评估自己当天有多少笔交易是严格按照计划执行的。
And so a trader in their daily report card will grade themselves on how many trades during the session that they took from their playbook.
很多人会给自己定个目标，比如至少80%的交易都要来自计划内的机会。
And a common thing is guys will shoot for 80% or better up trades from the playbook.
作为交易员，我们不可能每次都做对。
We're not perfect as traders.
大家都知道，坐在屏幕前时，难免会忍不住去碰一些本不该碰的单子。
We all know you're gonna sit in front of screens and you're gonna dabble in certain trades that maybe you should not have.
这没关系。
That's okay.
你不需要做到完美。
It's you don't have to be perfect.
但你得给自己定一个目标，明确希望有多少比例的交易来自计划内。
But you should set a goal for what percentage of the trades you wanna take.
所以，我们每个人都会评估自己在交易中有多大比例是按照交易计划执行的。
And so, one of our guys will will grade what percentage of the trades he took which were in his playbook.
你提到的交易计划，具体是指什么样的形式？
When you speak about a playbook, what what's the format of this?
你们是怎么整理这些交易策略，方便随时查阅的？
And and, like, how are you archiving plays, in a way that's easy to reference?
是纸质的本子，还是电脑桌面上的一个文件夹？
Like, is it a is it a physical book, or is it kinda a folder on your desktop?
到底是个什么样子？
Like, what does it look like?
每次交易结束后，我们的人会把当时觉得最有价值的交易模式存档下来。
So at the end of each trading session, our guys are archiving a setup that made most the most sense to them.
这些模式里包含很多变量。
Those setups have variables.
大家会回头分析，拆解那些自己特别认可的模式里的关键因素，然后整理进交易计划里。
And guys go back and they decode and deconstruct the variables of that setup that they really liked, and they put them into this playbook.
我们称之为SMB交易模板表，我之前在交易手册里也提到过这个。
We call it the SMB playbook template form, and I wrote about this in the playbook as I mentioned.
它主要涵盖当天整体的大方向。
But it consists of generally what is the big picture for the given day overall.
我们得先搞清楚，说到交易模式时，这个大方向到底指的是什么。
And let's let's let's make sure that we understand what that is when we're talking about the setup.
就拿我们现在的市场来说，昨天价格跌破了一个关键的SPY技术位。
So in this case, in in our markets, and we got below a key spy technical level yesterday.
之前一直在下跌，想找一个底部。
And we had been selling off and looking for a little bit of a bottom.
所以总体来看，市场短期偏弱，正在寻找支撑位，但还在200日均线之上。
So overall, we're in a weaker, shorter term market pulling into looking for that support and still above the two hundred day moving average.
这就是大方向的一个例子。
So that's an example of the big picture.
然后我们再看，从长期技术面来看，某只股票的整体趋势怎么样。
And then we look at overall, are the technical long term technical what's the long term technical outlook of a particular stock?
它现在是不是处于52周高位，而且还在上涨？
Is it at a fifty two week high and going higher?
它现在是不是处于52周低位，而且还在下跌？
Is it at a fifty two week low and going lower?
它是不是在某个区间里震荡？
Is it in the middle of a range?
下一个技术支撑位和阻力位在哪里？
Where's the next technical support and resistance level?
接着我们看看日内图表透露了什么信号。
And then we'll look at what's the intraday chart setup showing us.
它是不是在开盘区间下方？
Is it below the opening range?
它是不是在开盘区间上方？
Is it above the opening range?
咱们先明确一下什么是开盘区间。
Let's define that.
我们要确保弄清楚这个特定行情背后的消息驱动因素。
We'll make sure that we understand the news catalyst in the particular setup.
那么，今天是什么新闻让交易者对这个标的感兴趣呢？
So what's the news that's getting people interested to trade this on a given day?
我们会记录下盘口信息对这个行情给出的提示。
We'll make notes of what the tape was telling us about this particular setup.
我们会讨论针对这种行情的整体交易策略，也会聊聊直觉。
We will talk about an overall trade strategy for how we attack this particular setup, and we'll talk about intuition.
你在交易时，心里对价格走向有什么感觉？
What are what were you feeling in the trade as to what direction it ought to move in.
随着经验积累，交易者会慢慢加入一些新的考量因素。
And that is and guys, as they get a little bit more experienced, they will add some variables to that.
他们也可能去掉一些不再适用的条件。
They might take some variables out.
很多期货交易者也用这套方法，他们会剔除那些不奏效的消息因素。
And a lot of futures traders have ended up using this for their trading as well, so they might take out a particular news catalyst for that that wouldn't work.
也许他们得更认真地看看全局。
Maybe they'd have to look at the big picture a little bit harder.
但核心问题是，亚伦，正如你第一个问题里提到的，你作为一个交易员，到底是谁？
But the idea, Aaron, overall is, and you touched upon this in your first question, who are you as a trader?
你的交易事业是什么？
What is your trading business?
你最擅长的是什么？
What do you do best?
而找到自己最擅长的方式，第一步就是建立你的交易手册。
And the way that you figure out how you do best is part one, building your playbook.
先搞清楚哪些形态是你能真正做好的。
Start understanding the setups that you can trade really well.
然后把它们整理归档。
Start archiving them.
当你把它们写下来的时候，就是在把它们刻进你的交易思维里。
When you write them down, you're internalizing them in your trading brain.
这些在实时交易中更容易判断。
They're easier to make in real time.
复盘当天的交易也很简单，你可以看看数字，判断哪些交易是按计划做的，哪些是偏离了计划。
It's easy to go and review your day because you can take a look at digit, make trades inside or out of your playbook.
你可以给这些交易打上标签，衡量表现，因为它们都有明确的名称。
You can tag those trades and measure how well you did because they've got names.
这是一笔突发新闻驱动的交易。
This is a breaking news trade in match.
让我看看这笔交易我做得怎么样。
Let me measure how I did on that.
原来如此。
Oh, okay.
我赚了五点。
I made five points.
不错。
Good.
前几天Citron发布了一篇攻击性文章，我就趁机做了一笔突发新闻交易。
Here was a breaking news trade I made the other day when Citron came out with a hit piece.
明白了。
Okay.
我赚了四点。
I made four points.
行。
Alright.
不错。
Good.
我喜欢这种操作。
I like this.
我在这种突发新闻交易里表现一直不错。
I I do well in these breaking news trades.
我的数据能证明这一点，我再给你讲个特别典型的例子，关于我们团队里一位即将成为七位数交易员的同事。
My stats back me up, and I'll give you a really good anecdote about this from one of our guys who is gonna be our next 7 figure trader.
每次他经过我时，你就跟他说一遍，我会一直这么说，直到他真能做到为止。
Every time he passes me, tell him that, and I'm gonna keep telling him that until he actually becomes it.
我记得他第一次成功的时候，曾来找我们 Floor Manager 和我，想申请增加资金。我当时就知道他想申请加仓的那笔交易，说实话，我对这笔交易没什么好感，根本不想参加那个会。
But I remember that his first period of success, he asked to come talk to our floor manager and myself about a bump in capital, and I knew the trade that he was going to ask to get bumped up in, and I just personally am not a huge fan of this trade, and I was I was just like, I didn't wanna be in the meeting.
我心想，他真会为了这笔交易要钱？
I was like, is he really gonna ask for money on this trade?
这交易也太怂了。
Like, this is just this is such a wuss trade.
他真打算靠这种交易来打基础，建立自己的职业生涯？
Like, does he really wanna, like, he really wanna like build his career around this trade?
这其实是个市场套利机会。
And it was an inefficiency trade.
说真的，会前我压根不觉得这主意靠谱。
It's it's anyway, and so I got to admit, like before the meeting, was just, you know, not thinking this was gonna be a good idea.
结果交易员一进门，啪地把笔记本和笔记本电脑往会议室桌上一放，说：‘这是这笔交易的详细数据，我希望能增加资金。’
And Trader walks in, plops his notebook down, plops his computer down, his laptop down on our conference room and says, here are the measured statistics of this trade for which I would like more capital.
他的权益曲线直线上升。
And his equity graph was like straight up.
就是直线上升。
It's like it was straight up.
我一直在盯着看。
It was like I kept looking at it.
我们俩对视了一眼，都说：没错。
I'm like and and we we looked at we looked at each other and we said, yeah.
这个想法，我们给你追加资金。
We'll we'll give you more capital for that idea.
这真是个好主意。
That's a great idea.
他后来越做越大，越做越精，把这些模式越玩越熟。
And and he's gone on to trade these types of setups bigger and bigger and better and better.
就凭这个交易策略，他完全有可能成为年入七位数的交易员。
And he, this trade, could probably become a 7 figure trader as it is.
他现在在忙别的事情。
He's working on other things.
但他把那些交易模式都整理出来了。
But he playbooked the trades.
他统计了交易数据，手上有实实在在的证据。
He measured the trades, he's got the data.
这根本没法否认。
It's undeniable.
当时我们就很清楚，应该给他更多资金。
It was undeniable at the time that we ought to give him more capital.
所以当你在家交易自己的钱，或者别人的钱，想着怎么扩大规模时，你得先能向自己证明：你在某些交易模式下确实能赚钱。而要做到这一点，第一步就是从这些标准化的交易模式开始。
And so when you're sitting there at home, you know, trading your money or maybe trading some money, somebody else's money, and you're thinking about how do you how do you scale up, well, you should be able to prove it to yourself that you make money in certain setups, and and and you do that first by starting with those playbook trades.
我有没有听错？你说过，就靠这一个标准化交易模式，他完全有可能成为年入七位数的交易员？
Did I hear you correctly when you said something along the lines of he could potentially become like, very potentially become a 7 figure trading a 7 figure trader based off this one particular Playbook trade?
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种交易方式。
It's it's a type of trading.
这些交易可能还有一些细分类型，但他现在做的这种交易，百分之百能让他成为七位数交易员，就专攻这个细分领域就够了。
There there probably would be some subsets of these trades, but but this type of trading that that he was that he was that he's doing and he was doing, a 100% he can be a 7 figure trader just in that niche of trading.
每次他从我身边经过，我就跟他说：加大仓位。
And all I do is every time he passes me, I'm like, trade bigger.
我跟他讲的就只有这一句。
That's all I say to him.
加大仓位。
Trade bigger.
你一定会成为下一个七位数交易员。
You're gonna be the next 7 figure trader.
我觉得他可能有点烦我老说这话了，但我还是会一直说，直到他真的做到为止。
I think he's getting a little annoyed at me for saying that, but I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep saying it until he till he is.
对。
Right.
是的
Yeah.
这真的很有趣，因为他来开会之前就准备得特别充分，所有数据都摆在那里，让事实自己说话。
That that's really interesting because, obviously, he was, you know, very prepared when he came into this meeting and had all his stats and kinda let the the data speak for itself.
随着交易员越来越成熟，我知道你以前用过一个词——‘增强型交易员’。
As a trader becomes more developed, I know this is a term which, you've thrown around, in the past is becoming a bionic trader.
你之前也提到过，用技术来帮助自己，方式有很多。
And you spoke about a little earlier about using, technology to help you, in various ways.
就算你是靠直觉交易的人，一样能借助技术工具。
You know, even as a discretionary trader, you can leverage technology.
你能举个例子，说明直觉型交易员是怎么利用技术的吗？
Can you speak about an example of how a discretionary trader can leverage technology?
我们公司SMB大约五年前，和基希纳交易集团合作，开始筹建这个纽约办公室。
So our firm, SMB, about five years ago in a joint venture with the Kirchner Trading Group, started building out this New York office.
当时让我们特别感兴趣的是，和基希纳交易集团的这次合作——我知道你跟安迪·基希纳聊过，他们旗下还有一个叫量化视觉的部门，由摩根·斯莱德在Cloud Quant负责，就是因为他们正在打造的这套技术系统。
And one of the things that really attracted us to this joint venture with the Kirchner Trading Group, and I know that you've talked to Andy Kirchner, and another division of that is Quantitative Vision, which is run by Morgan Slade at Cloud Quant, was the technology that the firm was building.
当我们的交易员变得出色、真正理解了自己的优势后，我们就鼓励他们更主动地出击。
And so when our guys get good and they understand their edge, we want them to play more offense.
我们要确保他们能及时收到所有自己最钟爱的交易形态信号。
We wanna make sure that they're alerted to all of the setups that they really, really love.
过滤技术能帮助交易员发现并收到他们最偏爱的那些交易形态信号。
And so filtering technology helps traders spot and and receive signals for all of the setups that they really, really love.
因此，他们在盘中和收盘后都会写一些简单的代码，确保过滤器能精准捕捉他们最喜欢的交易形态。
And so they are, during the middle of the day and and after the close, writing code, simple code, to make sure that their filters are finding their favorite setups.
这对他们的交易价值巨大，能显著提升整体盈亏，因为这确保了他们始终参与自己最擅长的交易形态。
And this is a a huge value add to their trading and and a huge boost to their P and L overall because it's ensuring that they're in the setups that that they like the most.
他们确保自己随时掌握这些信息，以便及时收到最佳交易形态的提醒。
So they're they're making sure they're armed with this information that's alerting them to their best setups.
此外，我们的交易员还会更进一步，为某些特定形态编写脚本，自动帮他们入场。
And then another thing that our guys do and a step further is they may create a script for a particular setup that automatically gets them into a position.
比如说，你特别喜欢突破交易，这可能是你最偏爱的一种交易方式。
So let's just say you really love breakout trades, that's one of your favorite trades.
如果你特别想找某只股票突破重要的盘整区间，就可以写个脚本，设定只要它突破了，就自动买入。
And you're really looking for one particular stock to break out of a important consolidation, you can write a script and say, get me long if it does.
你还可以写个脚本，只要出现这种盘整形态并突破，就提醒你买入，至于怎么出场，你自己来判断。
And you can write a script that says, anything that looks like this type of consolidation and it breaks out, get me long, and then I will trade out of it with discretion.
另外，越来越多的交易者，尤其是新入行的，开始说：我要这个过滤器，我要这个提醒，每次出现这种交易机会都通知我。
And then certainly, another thing that traders are doing more and more of, particularly the newer traders who are coming in, is starting and saying, alright, I want this filter, I want this alert to fire every time a trade like this comes up.
不过等等，让我先单独回测一下这个信号本身的表现。
But hey, let me take this let me back test that signal in of itself.
我收到的这些信号确实都很不错。
So I'm getting these really great signals.
如果我每次都直接进场，完全不加自己的判断，会怎么样？
What if I just really did get in every time and didn't overlay my description?
如果我只管进场，再设定一些出场规则，结果会如何？
What happens if I just got in, create some exit rules?
这种策略表现会怎样？
How would that do?
或者干脆直接测试一个我作为主观交易员可能没法做的想法——如果让计算机全权操作，说不定真能赚到钱。
And or let me just test an idea overall that I couldn't trade perhaps as a discretionary trader, but if the computer was just allowed to work, I could make some money.
所以我认为，绝大多数有经验的交易员都建立了自己的模型，或者找初级交易员合作开发模型，用来辅助自己的交易。
And so they're building, I think almost all of the I wouldn't say all the guys, but a very large majority of the experienced traders have built models or partnered with junior traders to build models that supplement their trading.
也有一部分人已经完全脱离了主观交易，专心做模型开发，新入行的人里也有很多是这样。
And then there are just some guys that have really moved away from discretionary trading and focused on building models, and certainly newer guys have done that as well.
我们上个月九月开的那期培训里，就有两个人几乎不做主观交易，主要精力都放在搭建自动化模型上。
In our last class that came in in September, there are two guys in our class who are doing very little discretionary trading and are almost exclusively working on building automated models.
所以总的来说，现在的交易员，尤其是有优势的主观交易员，真的得配上技术工具，帮自己做出更优的决策，抓住更多自己擅长的机会。
And so, you know, I think the big picture is as a trader in these days, as a discretionary trader with edge these days, you you really wanna be armed with technology tools to help you make better decisions and to get into more opportunities that are your strength.
找初级同事帮你开发模型，而且这些模型直接关系到你的盈亏，这也不是什么坏事。
And, you know, it's it's not a bad thing also to be working with junior guys who are building models for you that are on your your P and L line.
我可以跟你说，我们对新员工的培训和以前完全不同了，而且自动化交易的培训现在已经是交易员培养第二阶段的重要内容——三年前根本还没有这一块。
So and and I can tell you, and I mentioned this at the beginning, the training that we do for our new hires is substantially different than it used to be, and and that teaching and that training of of automated trading is a large part of our second part, trader development, didn't used to exist three even three years ago that that does now.
这样一来，就为交易员开辟了三条职业路径：纯主观交易、混合型交易，或者全自动化交易。
And so that gives the person a career path of discretionary trader, that gives them the career path of hybrid trader, gives them the career path of automated trader.
当交易员越来越成熟、表现越来越稳定，开始获得不错的收益时，举个例子，他们可能把一个15000美元的账户逐步做到了10万美元。
Now as a trader is becoming more advanced and becoming consistent, starting to put up some decent gains, as an example, let's say they've grown a a $1,015,000 dollar account over a period of time to 100,000.
那么，要从这10万美元再做到100万美元，需要做出哪些改变？
What things need to change for them to take that $100,000 account and turn it to a million dollars.
是什么让他们从一万、五万、十五万，一路做到了十万？
What got them from fifth 10 or 15 to a 100?
是靠同样的方法吗？
Is that doing the same thing?
光靠这些就能再冲到一百万，还是说有些东西必须从根本上调整？
Is that what's gonna get them to a million dollars, or are there some some things which actually need to fundamentally change?
是的。
Yeah.
在某些情况下，其实什么都不用改。
In some cases, nothing.
在另一些情况下，也只需要微调。
In other cases, not much.
在其他情况下，他们还提升了其他几个阶段的表现。
In other cases, some other stages that they worked on.
我们确实遇到过一些交易员，每月盈利从稳定的四千美元增长到稳定地超过十万美元，但他们一直做着差不多同样的事情。
So we have had some traders who went from making $4,000 a month consistently to making over a $100,000 a month consistently, pretty much doing the same things they were doing all along.
他们只是把规模放大了。
They just did them bigger.
他们只是加大了交易仓位，同时始终保持责任感，能够稳妥地管理更大的头寸。
They just made their trades with more size, and they consistently push themselves outside their comfort zone while still being responsible to handle larger size.
我们更倾向于认为，交易员要清楚自己的优势，根据自己的风险预算来设定每笔交易的风险，而在取得持续成功后，除了增加他们的资金额度和可承受的风险上限，其他基本不做调整。
So we like to think about guys understanding their edge and giving a certain amount of risk for their trades inside their risk book, and then not really doing anything different after a period of success other than just us increasing their buying power and us increasing their risk loss.
他们日内止损的比例始终保持不变。
The percentages of their intraday stops are the same.
比如说，你原本每天的风险额度是一千美元，在最看好的交易中，你愿意承担20%的日内亏损，那正好是两百美元，而你经历了一段非常成功的时期，我们想给你升级。
So you know let's just say you had a thousand dollars of intraday risk and on your best trades you risked 20% of your intraday loss and you had a really wonderful period of success, and we wanted to bump you up.
那下个月我们可能会给你提升20%，你每天的风险额度就变成一千二百美元了。
We might bump you up 20% the next month, and your your risk loss is 1,200 for the day.
在你最好的交易里，你就冒20%的风险。
And for your best trades, you just risk 20%.
你算清楚了，知道自己该怎么做，然后就这样一步步往前走。
You do the math, figure out what you and you just keep progressing that way.
你其实不需要做任何改变。
You don't really do anything different.
你只是在交易你最拿手的模式，然后根据风险额度重新算一下能加多少，但比例始终没变。
You're just trading your best setups and just moving the the doing the math to how much more risk that's gonna be, but your percentages are really the same.
让交易规模稍微大一点，对有些人来说确实会有点不自在，但慢慢就适应了。
And, you know, so so so it gets it's a little uncomfortable for guys to to trade a little bit bigger, but but they get used to it.
有人直接从一千美元的风险跳到五千美元，这绝对是个糟糕的主意。
And I I think people tend to go from a thousand dollars of risk to $5,000 of risk, and that's a really bad idea.
冒进得太快，迟早会出大问题，带来心理创伤，反而让你倒退。
Trying to bump yourself up too quickly will will bring a car crash and some trauma that will cause you to take some steps back.
真正靠谱的做法，是慢慢突破舒适区，负责任地逐步增加，比如每次提高20%。
Bumping yourself up by pushing yourself outside your comfort zone and responsibly doing it maybe at a 20% larger clip is a good way to do it.
这是我们的人常用的做法。
It's a common way that our guys do it.
所以很多人的经验其实还很有限。
So so a lot of the guys haven't done much.
也有一些人扩展了他们的交易品种。
I would say that, you know, there are also guys that have added breadth to their trading.
他们回顾自己过去成功过的模式，然后把这些策略用到其他类型的股票上。
So they've looked at where they've had success in the past and applied that to different types of stocks.
比如，他们在某类股票上赚过钱，就把那些最拿手的交易方式，试着应用到更易规模化的机会上，逐步扩大规模。
So they may have had success in one type of stock and they'll take their favorite trades from that one type of stock, and they'll try and apply it to a more scalable opportunity and grow from there.
他们也可能选择用期权来补充自己的交易策略。
They might also decide to start using options to supplement their trading as well.
我们看到，顶尖交易员的进步，不仅体现在用股票表达观点，也体现在用期权来表达观点。
We've seen some really nice progression from our top traders by not just expressing their ideas with stock, but also expressing their ideas with options.
这种更成熟的表达方式，也能帮助他们稳步前进。
And so that sophistication of how they express their ideas can also help them take steps in in progress.
是的。
Yeah.
你提到这点真好，因为我记得你一开始就说过了，交易的广度是其中一个关键阶段，这确实非常重要。
I'm pleased you brought that up actually because I remember you mentioned breadth at the beginning is one of the kind of the the stages or steps that you get to thinking about the breadth of your trading and, yeah, obviously very important.
最后再问一个问题，之后我们就收尾了。
Just one last question around this, and then we'll we'll wrap things up here.
要成为七位数交易员，心态因素占多大比重？
But getting to a 7 figure trader, how much of it is a mindset factor?
我们之前谈过成长型思维，这应该也和这个有关。
I know we spoke about having a growth mindset earlier, and that probably ties into this.
有些人嘴上说想赚一百万，但心理上可能怀疑自己有没有这个能力，觉得这太不现实了？
But do you think that some people they want to make a million dollars, like, can say that, but psychologically perhaps doubt their own ability, or it seems too far beyond the realm of possibility?
如果是这样，该怎么突破这种心态？
If that's the case, how do you overcome that?
我过去写过关于这个话题的内容。
So I've written about this in the past.
我称之为小目标。
I I call it small wins.
你别一上来就想着从零直接赚到一百万。
And so you don't wanna think about going from zero to a million dollars.
你应该想的是，怎么第一个月先赚到一千五百块。
You wanna think about going from zero to being able to make $1,500 in a month.
我建议你先退一步看。
I actually would take a step back.
刚入行时，很多人一上来就亏太多，真正的进步其实是亏得少了。
When you first start trading, a very common step is you lose too much money, and a real step in progress is to lose less.
真正的进步是先做到不亏不赚，然后是赚到一千五百块。等你赚到这一千五，再定下一个目标。
It's a real step in progress, and a real step in progress is to trade flat, And a real step in progress is to make $1,500 And so after you make $1,500, you'd set the the next goal.
接下来你可以定个目标，比如一个月赚四千，再往后，一个月赚一万。
Maybe I wanna make $4,000 in a month, and and then maybe I wanna make $10,000 in a month.
你要想的是，为了达到下一个切实可行的阶段，你具体该做些什么。
And so you you wanna be thinking about what are the things you need to do to get to that next realistic step in your development.
这确实是一个过程。
And and it's it is a process.
我们发现，交易员通常要到第三年才能实现可观的盈亏，所以你得对学习曲线有现实的预期。
We find on our desk that it takes until year three before traders are going to make substantial P and L, and you wanna come into this game being realistic about your learning curve.
第一年你可能赚到一些钱，第二年甚至能赚得不错，但我们在实盘上看到的是，这些交易员手头资源丰富。
You can make some money in year one and you can make good money in year two, but what we're seeing at our desk, guys have all these resources.
他们能跟斯汀巴格博士一起工作。
They get to work with Doctor.
他们能用上行业内顶尖的交易技术，无论是前端平台——要知道，除非你加入我们公司，否则根本用不上这些工具，还有自动化系统；同时还能获得全面的指导和 mentoring，公司也提供充足的资金支持，还有经验丰富的交易员可以学习、实时观摩他们的操作，但即便如此，要真正精通还是需要时间；公司还会保障你在这些年里能维持生活，但进步依然需要时间。
Steenbarger, they get the best technology in the prop space, both on the front end side, and, you know, you can't use our technology unless you trade at our firm, and on the automated side, and you get all the coaching and all the mentoring and plenty of capital to use at the firm, and it's still and you have these experienced traders who you can learn from and watch them trade in real time, and it still takes some time to get good at it, and you get the firm backing to make sure you can support yourself through those years, but still takes some time.
所以我从不想着从一码线直接冲到对方端区，我只想怎么从二十码线推进到三十码线。
So I don't think about trying to go from, you know, the one yard line to across the, from the 20 yard line to all the way across the field to the other team's goal line, I think about how do I go from the 20 to 30?
怎么从三十码线推进到四十码线？
How do I get from the 30 to the 40?
怎么才能到达三十码线？
How do I get to the 30?
只要坚持下去，埋头苦干，从二十码线推进到三十码线其实并不难。
And and just keep plugging away and get your feet to put your head down and keep working, and it's easy to get from the 20 yard line to the 30 yard line.
想从二十码线直接达阵得分，几乎是不可能的。
It's really almost impossible to go from the 20 yard line to to scoring a touchdown.
我们团队里的这些人，正是这样做的。
So that's what that's what our guys that's what our guys are doing.
我之前举过一个例子，关于我们的一位顶级交易员，他目标是年入一千万美元，而两年前他还只是七位数的水平。
And, you know, that example that I used with one of our top traders who wants to be a $10,000,000 a year trader, he was a 7 figure trader two years ago.
再往前，他从零开始，一步步做到了月入四千美元。
Before that, you know, he went from a zero to a 4,000.
我记得他月入八千到一万美元的时候，我一直在推动他。
I remember pushing him when he was about a 8 to $10,000 a month trader.
我记得我鼓励他挑战自己，争取一个月赚三万美元，他还真的答应了，后来也做到了。
I remember pushing him and challenging him to make $30,000 in a month and getting him to commit to that, and I remember him then and then doing that.
接着，他实现了月净收入一百万美元，后来又突破了两百万，现在他又在为自己设定更高的目标，但他始终是一步一步来的。
And then, you know, he got to the point where he netted a million dollars, and then he got to the point where he netted over 2,000,000, and now he's pushing himself to to make even more, but he's taking those incremental steps.
要想成为年入一千万的交易员，他知道必须一步一个脚印地来。
And to to be a $10,000,000 a year trader, he knows he has to take these incremental steps.
所以，专注于那些让你迈向下一个阶段的关键小步骤。
And so focus on those incremental steps that you need to take to get to that next level.
对。
Yeah.
这建议太棒了，迈克。
That's brilliant advice, Mike.
我想对正在听这段内容的每一个人说点话。
And I just wanna say something to everyone who's listening to this right now.
别只是把它当个消遣听听，觉得‘挺不错’就完事了，接着该干嘛干嘛。
Like, I don't want you to just listen to this episode for entertainment purposes and be like, oh, that's nice and sort of carry on as you were going.
多听几遍，认真琢磨。
Like, actually go over this a couple times.
记点笔记，因为这里面有很多实实在在、马上就能用的策略和方法。
Take some notes because there's a lot of actionable strategies and tactics that you can actually implement.
我知道，这些做法真的会带来改变，就像在迈克公司里那些交易员身上发生的那样。
And I know, you know, it will make a difference as it has done for the traders at Mike's firm.
所以，迈克，非常感谢你再次做客这个播客，抽出时间分享这么多宝贵而实用的见解。
So, Mike, I wanna say thank you very much for coming on the podcast, again for a second time and, giving up your time to share a lot of really, valuable, helpful, information.
真的非常感谢你。
So thank you.
艾伦，我也要谢谢你。
Well, Aaron, I wanna say thank you to you too.
很多年前我就开始写博客，想跟交易圈分享我的想法，因为我感觉自己有独特的视角想表达，也很欣赏其他人在做同样的事，而你显然就是其中之一。
I started writing a bunch of blog posts many, many years ago to share with the trading community, because I felt like I had a unique voice that I wanted to share, and I certainly appreciate when other people are doing that as well, and you're one of those other people obviously.
你为交易圈打造了一个内容极其丰富的学习库，邀请的嘉宾都非常出色，新手和正在成长的交易员都能从中汲取很多好点子，就像你说的，听完之后去实践。
You've put together a really, voluminous library of learning for the trading community with really terrific guests that new traders and developing traders can sift through to come up with really good ideas, and as you said, you know, you listen to these ideas and then implement them.
这些点子真的能帮你进步。
They will help you get better.
所以我特别感谢你为这个圈子所做的贡献，也感谢你给我这个机会，能和你以及你的听众交流。
So I really appreciate the help that you're doing for the community and and the opportunity to talk with with you and and your community.
是的
Yeah.
这真的很重要
It means a lot.
非常感谢
Thank you very much.
我得提一下，我们之前在这期节目中提到的那几位人士，你们可以在《与交易员对话》的往期节目中听到他们的分享，比如布雷特·斯廷巴格、摩根·斯莱德和安迪·基尔纳。
And I should point out, the the few names we spoke about earlier on in this episode, you can hear on previous episodes of Chat with Traders, Brett Steenbarger, Morgan Slade, and Andy Kirchner.
这三位都曾经做过我们的嘉宾，相关节目的链接都在简介里。
All three of those guys have been on the podcast previously, so, you'll find links to those episodes in the show notes.
迈克，如果有人想更多地了解你，读你提到的那些博客文章，最好的地方是哪里？
Mike, if someone wants to find out more about yourself, read some of these blog posts you've mentioned, where's the best place to go?
如果你想读我的博客，可以去 smbu.com/blog。
If you wanna read my blog post, you can go to smbu.com/blog.
如果你有任何交易方面的问题，随时给我发邮件，地址是 mbellafiore@snbcap.com。
If you have a trading question, you certainly can shoot me an email, mbellafiore@snbcap.com.
好的。
Okay.
你也在推特上。
And you're on Twitter as well.
你的用户名是什么？
What's your handle?
Mike Bellafiore。
At Mike Bellafiore.
不错。
Cool.
好了，Mike。
Alright, Mike.
我们就到这里吧。
We'll leave it there.
再次感谢你抽出时间。
Once again, really appreciate your time.
非常感谢。
Thanks very much.
谢谢，亚伦。
Thanks, Aaron.
你已经听完了本期《与交易员对话》，但别担心，更多充满真实市场洞察、毫无炒作的节目即将上线。
You've reached the end of this episode of Chat with Traders, but rest assured there are more episodes loaded with real market insight and zero hype on the way soon.
想及时收到每期新内容，请在 iTunes 上订阅本播客，也欢迎给我们打分和写评论。
So to stay updated with each great new release, subscribe to the podcast in iTunes, and we'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review.
下次《与交易员对话》再见。
We'll catch you next time on chat with traders.
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