315 · 贾马尔·高里 —— 从早期加密货币到零日期权：快钱，快现实

虽然我不了解其中的复杂细节，但实际上我更倾向于交易看跌期权，这也解释了为什么我更愿意在维亚康姆和游戏驿站这类股票上做空，而非试图捕捉上涨行情。

I didn't know the intricacies, but I did actually prefer to trade puts, and that's actually what followed why I did prefer on stocks like Viacom and then GameStop to trade them to the downside instead of try to catch the move up.

你说过在市场暴跌时对入市持犹豫态度，等待市场稳定后才行动，对吧？后来市场开始回升了。

So you you said that you were hesitant about being in the market when the market was was crashing and that you waited later, right, for the market to stabilize, well, then the market started going back up.

既然你喜欢做空，那么当市场逐渐企稳并开始上涨时，你采取了哪些交易策略呢？

And and since you liked being in puts, kinda what were your, trades as a market began to stabilize and go back up?

在这种情况下，你是如何操作看跌期权的？

How were you able to work with the puts in that situation?

所以基本上就是找到这些信号，坚持我的策略，那时我已经对它有了很好的把握。

So essentially just finding those, really just sticking to my strategy at that point, that's when I had a good grasp to it.

实际上就是等待这些信号一一对应。

So really just waiting for those indications to line up.

我想要一个非常非常大的反弹，最好是在波动性极高的时候。

I wanted a huge, huge rally, ideally on very high volatility.

我希望它能触及我的布林带上轨。

I wanted it to be hitting my upper Bollinger Bands.

我希望看到RSI指标的看跌背离。

I wanted a bearish RSI divergence.

所有这些指标被我整合成一个大致构建的交易系统。

All of these indicators that I just put together into one roughly built trading system.

一旦出现信号，我实际上并没有考虑市场的整体方向。

And as soon as it would signal, I didn't really take into account the the overall direction of the market.

我没有关注相对于指数的相对强弱。

I didn't look at relative strength compared to the indexes.

我只是想，你看，我的信号触发了。

I just figured, you know, my my signal's fired.

我大概应该进场，而且效果相当不错。

I probably should be in this, and it worked fairly well.

但显然，随着年复一年的实践，我意识到这其中还有很多可以优化的地方。

But obviously, you know, as I went on through the years, I realized that there's there could be a lot of optimization in all this.

所以你是在根据技术分析，对那些严重超买的个股进行非常短期的下跌押注？

So you're taking very short term bets on particular stocks, individual stocks that are way overextended according to your technicals, and for a very short term drop?

或者描述一下时间框架和其他细节？

Or describe the time frames and everything?

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我当时是在日线图上观察。

So I would be looking at it on the daily chart.

那就是我希望出现背离信号的地方。

That's where I would want my divergence to be.

那也是我希望布林带上轨触及的位置。

That's where I would want the upper Bollinger band to hit.

理想情况下，我只会持有两到三天，然后在最近的支撑位卖出我的看跌期权。

And then ideally, would only hold for about two to three days and just sell my puts at the nearest support level.

之后是否跌破支撑位并不重要，那时我通常已经平仓了，但盈利相当可观，由于我在到期日选择上非常激进，收益率能达到100%到200%不等。

Whether or not it broke after that, I was typically out by then, but the wins were pretty sizable, anywhere from a 100 to 200% just because of how risky I was going with the expirations.

那么你从3000美元起步，描述一下你从3000美元涨到8万美元峰值的时间跨度。

So your count of 3,000, describe the time frame that you rode the $3,000 count up to the peak of 80,000.

那是多少个月或多少年？

How many months or years was that?

大约五到六个月。

So it was it was about five to six months.

进展非常快，再次强调，因为我当时完全没有风险管理概念。

It happened very fast, again, just because I had no concept of risk management.

对，就是同样的操作。

And yeah, would just same thing.

观察这些日线图，等待所有信号触发，全仓投入，或者至少投入账户的大部分资金。

Look at these daily charts, wait for all of those signals to fire, full port my account, or at least put a very big chunk of it.

有时候我会同时进行多笔交易，比如三到四笔，这三四笔交易就占用了账户100%的资金，但就我的投资组合比例而言，总是下非常大的赌注。

Sometimes I would be in multiple trades at once, say three or four, and those three or four constitute the entire 100% of the account, but always very, very large bets in terms of percentage of my portfolio.

所以在六个月内，你通过大额押注、超短线操作，买入这些超涨热门股的看跌期权，将账户从3000美元做到了8万美元。

So over six month period, you ran your account up 3,000 to 80,000, And you by placing big bets, short very short term bets, buying puts on these high flyers that are overextended.

你是否有任何策略来退出亏损头寸，还是幸运地恰好选对了方向，让大赢家能够覆盖那些希望是小额的亏损？

Did you have any strategy to get out of a losing position, or were you fortunate enough to happen to pick the right ones and your big winners would outweigh your hopefully small losers?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

可以说很不幸我当时没有系统，只是胜率较高，因为如果我有系统或通过惨痛教训学会如何处理亏损，可能就不会最终爆仓了。

So I would I would call it unfortunate that I didn't have the system and, you know, it just had a high win rate, because if I did have a system or I did learn the hard way on how these losses should have worked, again, I probably wouldn't have blown the full account down the line.

但现实情况是，我会放任90%的头寸归零。

But realistically, I would just let 90% of them go to zero.

如果行情真的开始飙升，我会不断加仓，这种情况下迟早会遭遇回撤，尤其是在如此短的时间框架内操作。

If they were really, really taking off, I would kind of just add to the position over and over, and essentially, you're almost bound to get a bit of a drawdown eventually, especially when you're looking at such a short timeframe.

也许股票会继续上涨，但你在开盘时买入看跌期权后股价就快速跳水。

Maybe the stock is gonna continue to go up, but you buy puts at open and it just has a very quick flush.

但由于你一直在进行美元成本平均法加仓，只需平仓就能基本保本，之后股价继续上涨。

But since you've been dollar cost averaging in, that's all you need, you can get out for about breakeven, and then the stock continues higher.

所以我总是希望这种情况发生。

So that's what I would always hope to happen.

这大概就是我的方法论。

That was kind of my methodology.

但如果我们没遇到这种情况，那基本上就会直接归零。

But, if if we didn't get that, then it would essentially really just go to zero.

所以这是非常糟糕的风险管理。

So it was terrible risk management.

哦，我明白了。

Oh, I see.

那么描述一下模因股票热潮吧。

So describe the the meme stock craze.

你当时是怎么应对的？

What did you do with that?

你有没有动过做多的念头？

Do were you ever tempted to go long?

我是说，快速赚钱的方法，对吧，买些看涨期权？

I mean, quick way to make some money, right, with some calls?

你知道，那时候我完全专注于逆向交易思维，甚至从未考虑过做多。

You know, at that point, I was so focused on just a contrarian trading mindset where I wasn't even considering longs at at any point.

在GameStop上，我确实尝试过一次做空，结果账户遭受了巨额亏损。

On GameStop, I did try to short it once, and I I lost a huge amount of my account.

那笔交易一下子就亏掉了20%的资金。

It was like a 20% drawdown in one trade.

但幸运的是，你知道，我很有耐心，我知道这一切终将结束。

But then luckily, you know, I was patient and I knew that, you know, this has to end eventually.

所以我又进场了一次，那次就是大行情来临的时候。

So got in one more time, and that was the big one that hit.

那次获得了相当可观的收益。

Got a pretty sizable win on that.

我记得大概是在一个大跌日获得了200%的收益。

It was about, I believe, 200% on a huge red day.

但无论如何，隐含波动率实在太高了，我以如此溢价买入看跌期权，本应获利更多。

But regardless, the implied volatility was just so high that I bought the puts so overpriced and it should have been a lot more.

当时我还很困惑，为什么这么大的行情变动只带来200%的收益，按说应该高得多，比如百分之一千左右。

And back then I was still kind of confused on why such a big move only yielded 200% when it really should have done something way higher, maybe like a thousand percent.

不过最终我还是锁定了这笔盈利，算是抵消了之前交易的亏损——抱歉，是上一笔交易的损失。

But I ended up getting that win, locking it in, so that kind of offset loss, excuse me, from the previous trade.

即便如此，你几乎无视隐含波动率有多高，始终坚持直接买入看跌期权，因为这策略对你有效，所以决定坚持使用。

And still, you're you're sticking with just straight puts almost regardless of how high the IV was because this was working for you, and you decided to stick with it.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

因此经过反思，当

So upon reflection, when

当你回顾那些交易时，是否曾有过这样的想法：'嘿，也许我应该根据隐含波动率或股票情况尝试不同类型的期权策略'？

you reflected back on those trades, did was there ever a time then that you said, hey, maybe I should venture out and try different types of option strategies depending on the IV or what's going on with the stock?

实际上在那次交易之后，我开始关注隐含波动率的运作机制，并真正花时间去理解它，那时我才真正开始做多股票。

After that trade actually is when I focused on how the IV worked and really took the time to understand it, and that's when I got into really going going long on stocks.

这完全是另一种策略。

This was a whole another strategy.

我有点...我不想说完全抛弃了旧策略。

I kind of, I don't wanna say abandoned the old one.

我仍然会在这里或那里进行交易，当机会出现时，但我的下一个策略有点不同。

I still traded it here and there when the opportunity showed themselves, but, my next strategy was a little bit different.

我想要那些呈上升趋势的股票出现压缩，然后我会在出现盘整时买入，本质上是在低波动期买入，然后等待突破。

I wanted compression in stocks that were trending upwards, and then I would buy during that compression period when there's consolidation, and essentially there, I'm buying in low volatility periods, and I would wait for a breakout.

我会在突破时结算，当然会从现货价格的Delta变动中获利，然后我还会从波动率的增加中获得额外的好处。

And I would settle on that breakout, capitalize off of the delta move, of course, in spot price, and then I would also get the the added benefits from the increase in the volatility.

那些也是短期交易吗？

And those were were they short term trades as well?

大概多长时间？

How what kind of time frame?

这些交易通常在0到5天内完成。

So those would be anywhere from zero to five days.

我喜欢在这些交易中参考小时图和日线图。

I would like to trade the the hourly and the daily chart on those.

好的。

Okay.

那么在你账户达到8万美元后的六个月里，描述一下它是如何全部亏光的。

So with your account at 80,000 after six months, describe how it all blew up.

当时账户有8万美元，那是最高点。

It was at 80,000, and that was the peak.

就像我说的，我以为自己站在世界之巅，已经开始列购物清单了。

As I mentioned, I thought I was on top of the world making my shopping list.

然后就像我提到的，那个股票代码是XPEV，那家公司，你知道的，结果并不顺利。

And then as I mentioned, the ticker was XPEV, that company that, you know, it just didn't go so well.

我看到它有一次下跌，这些实际上是看涨期权。

I saw that it had a dip and these were actually calls.

所以我做多它，有点‘我势不可挡，想买什么就买什么，我的交易都会成功’的心态。

So these I was going long on and it was a little bit of I'm unstoppable, I can buy whatever I want and my trade will work.

于是我在下跌时买入看涨期权，每个人的故事都一样。

So I got into calls on a dip, and everyone has the same story.

你抄底了，但它却不断下跌。

You buy the dip and it keeps on dipping.

于是我不断加仓摊平成本，两次、三次、四次、五次，直到全仓押注在这只股票上。

So I averaged down two, three, four, five times until my entire portfolio was in on it.

但我就是无法说服自己割肉，因为按照之前的策略，我习惯了只要等到一次反弹就能保本离场。

And I just couldn't bring myself to sell because with my previous strategy, was so used to, you know, all it takes is one spike and I can get out at Breakeven.

但这次情况不同，我们始终没等来像样的反弹。

But in this case, we didn't really get the spike.

股价完全是不带丝毫犹豫地直线下跌。

It was just absolutely selling off with no hesitation.

最终我在账户里只剩500美元时割肉离场，从8万到500，所有资金在一次交易中灰飞烟灭。

And I finally cut it at $500 left in my account from the 80,000, and it all went away in one single trade.

天啊。

Oh my god.

哇。

Wow.

那从8万亏到几乎归零用了多长时间？

So how long was it did did it take to go from 80,000 back down to almost nothing?

其实非常快。

Pretty quickly, actually.

大概只用了一个半星期。

Only about a week and a half.

你当时的心理状态是怎样的？

What was your mental state at the time?

我的意思是，你有没有想过彻底放弃交易？

I mean, did you feel like quitting trading altogether or?

没有。

No.

说实话，我当时确实有点沮丧，但我的心态是，你知道的，这不是我的钱。

So I was definitely a little bit down in the dumps, to put it lightly, but my mindset was, you know, this wasn't my money.

这是我父亲的钱。

This was my father's money.

我让他损失了3000美元，所以我要不惜一切代价弥补。

I lost him $3,000 So I'm going to do whatever I need to do.

我会把钱赚回来的。

I'm going to make it back.

你知道的，可能需要一点时间，可能会很艰难，但我当时非常坚定要把钱赚回来。

You know, it might take a little bit, might be hard, but I was very determined on making it back.

那么这是哪一年你

So what year was this that you

这大概是在2021年初的时候。

This was about just just into the start of 2021 now.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

哇。

So wow.

所以这是一个非常短的时间段。

So this is a very short time period.

这一切都发生在上涨期间。

This all occurred during the the run up.

那么，描述一下你在2021年做了什么。

So so describe what what did you do in 2021.

是的。

Yeah.

2021年，我刚才提到的关于盘整期的策略，就是那时我开始学习这个。

So 2021, that that strategy I just mentioned about the consolidation periods, that's when I started learning that.

再次强调，那段经历就是我为什么不再喜欢那种背离策略，因为它不奏效。

And again, that experience is kind of why I fell fell out of love with that divergence strategy, just because it didn't work.

这真的让我感到非常不愉快。

It had a real Left a really bad taste in my mouth.

于是转向了盘整期策略，主要跟随10日和21日EMA均线。

So switched to the consolidation periods, liked really just trailing the EMAs, the 10 and the '21.

我会想要那个。

I would want that.

我会想要MACD金叉。

I would want the MACD crossing.

我希望在盘整期间成交量极低，然后在突破时看到放量。

I would want volume to be super low during the consolidation and then see a spike on the breakout.

这是个非常简单易行的策略。

And that was just a very, very easy strategy to do.

趋势对你有利。

You have the trend in your favor.

很容易就能识别出来。

It's very easy to spot.

市场上随时都有大量机会。

There's lots of opportunities all the time.

总有某些股票在形成趋势。

There's always something that's trending.

而且你知道，我早期用这个方法取得了很大成功。

And that, you know, I've seen a lot of success with that really early on.

就是那时候我爱上了这种交易方式。

And that's when I fell in love with it.

直到今天我还在使用这个策略。

I still trade that strategy to this day even.

但确实，我用了大约六个月时间把500美元本金做到了3000美元。

But yeah, that I was able to get the 500 back up to 3,000 in about six months.

你是如何发现这些紧密盘整的股票的？

And how do you find these tightly consolidating stocks?

你使用特定的筛选工具吗？

Is there a particular screening tool that you use or?

是的。

Yeah.

实际上我在Thinkorswim平台上自定义构建了一个筛选器，它主要用来搜索挤压形态——即同时运用布林带和肯特纳通道的情况。

So I actually custom built a screener in the Thinkorswim platform, and essentially, it would search for squeezes, which are when it uses the Bollinger Bands and Keltner channels.

我还会额外添加一些细节参数，但这两个指标基本上就能把股票列入观察名单。

And I would add a few more little details as well, but those two would essentially put it on the watch list.

我还设置了一些成交量过滤器，而且我不碰小盘股，也不做仙股交易。

I had a few filters with volume, and I didn't want any small cap stocks, no penny stocks.

我喜欢流动性强且价差较小或不太宽的股票，因为我不想遇到糟糕的入场点。

I liked very liquid stocks with short or not very wide spreads because I didn't want to get terrible entries.

这些股票基本上每天都会出现在我的观察名单上，我会从中挑选最佳标的进行交易。

And those were essentially just put up on my watch list every day, and I would take the best one every single day.

我通常每天只做一笔交易。

I would typically did about one trade a day.

如果前一天已经持有仓位，我就不会再开新仓。

If I was already in a trade from the previous day, I wouldn't really look to enter anything.

但如果遇到完美契合的机会，我可能会同时持有两到三笔交易。

But if there was something that was just perfect, I could possibly be in, you know, two or three trades at once.

而且，你持有它们的时间非常短暂。

And, again, you're holding them for very short time frames.

如果是这样，你是否曾想过延长持有时间？

And and if so, were were you ever tempted to hold on for the longer term?

那些交易我通常会持有零到五天。

Those I would hold from about zero to five days.

其中一些股票，我确实看到它们在五天之后还在继续上涨。

Some of them, I did see them running even past those five days.

我确实尝试过持有其中一些股票。

I did try holding some of them.

我并不太喜欢这种做法，因为不可避免地，有些股票会反转，导致你回吐大部分利润，有时如果没用EMA指标正确跟踪，甚至会回吐全部利润。

I didn't really like it too much because inevitably, some of them, that they would roll over and you end up giving back a large portion of your profit, sometimes even all your profit if you don't trail it properly using the EMAs.

所以我始终坚持在遇到任何关键阻力位时就获利了结的策略。

So I really just stuck to selling into strength at any key resistance level.

而且你知道，当你把波动性也考虑进去时，这显然能带来最佳回报。

And, you know, that obviously gives the best return when you're taking volatility into account as well.

所以我倾向于坚持在日线和小时图上特别采用这种方法。

So I tended to stick with that on the daily and hourly chart specifically.

好的。

Okay.

那么你现在有了这个新策略，正在重建账户，让它回到3000美元。

So so you have this new strategy now, and you're building your account back up, get it back up to 3,000.

然后一旦达到目标，你就继续这样操作了吗？

And then once you got there, you just continued with with that?

我是说，2021年剩下的时间对你来说怎么样？

I mean, how did the rest of 2021 go for you?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我真的就是日复一日地执行那个策略。

So I really just kept spamming that strategy day after day.

我成功地把账户资金重新积累起来，并真正实现了持续增长。

I was able to build the account back up and really just grow it from there.

那确实是我首次开始实现盈利的阶段——当我有了第一个真正理解风险等要素的策略时。最重要的因素是（虽然大家都听腻了），但风险管理确实是交易中最关键的部分，那时我才真正理解了回撤的指数级影响机制。

That's really when I first started even becoming profitable is when I had a first strategy that, you know, I understood the risks and everything, and that's also when the most important factor, I know everyone talks about it and everyone is tired of hearing it, but risk management really is the most important part of trading, and that's when I had a good grasp on how it worked on, you know, the exponential effects of these drawdowns.

是的，从2021年一直到2024年初，我都只专注交易这个策略，那正是我真正实现稳定盈利的时期。

And, yeah, so from 2021 all the way up until I'd say 2024, early twenty twenty four, I specifically only traded that strategy and that that's when I was really profitable right there.

那么你的风险管理就是保持耐心，避开那些诱人但不适合你交易风格的行情，耐心等待最佳时机出现吗？

So was your risk management just being patient and avoiding the tempting plays, but that did not fit your profile and just waiting it out until the great setups appeared?

不，并不完全是这样的。

So not not specifically, no.

我会抓住大部分出现的交易机会。

So I would take most of the setups that that came across.

当然，我和所有交易者一样更偏好高质量的机会，但我的做法不是完全避开那些可能一般的行情，而是分配不同的仓位规模。

I I did obviously prefer the higher quality setups as would any trader, but the way that I did it was not to avoid the maybe mediocre ones completely, but just allocate a different position size.

因此，我总是会根据自己对交易机会的喜好程度，用1到10分来给它们打分。

So I would always rate the setups on a scale from one to 10 on how much I like them.

如果我看到一个大约6分的交易机会，我可能会投入1%的风险资金。

So if I'm looking at a setup that's maybe a six out of 10, maybe I would risk 1% on it.

那时候我的交易风格还是相当激进的。

And at this point, I was still fairly aggressive.

所以如果我遇到10分的完美机会，最多会投入5%的仓位资金。

So if I saw something like a 10 out of 10 setup, the most I would risk is 5% of my portfolio on it.

而且，你知道的，那些高质量的交易机会显然胜率要高得多。

And, you know, obviously those quality setups, they have a much higher win rate.

通过这种方法，在仓位规模上极其谨慎，对选股和基于所有因素综合判断的仓位大小都精挑细选。

And just using that method of really, really being careful about the position sizing, being very, very picky on which stocks to enter and what position size based off all the confluences.

这确实是我成功的关键。

That's really what did it for me.

那么，2021年你最终表现如何？

So how did, 2021 end for you?

2021年，没什么太疯狂的。

So 2021, not nothing too crazy.

那年我大概赚了30%。

I did about 30% that year.

不记得是否跑赢了大盘，但你知道，过去五年市场一直非常看涨。

Don't remember if that beat the market, but the, you know, the market has been very bullish over the past five years.

不过，你知道，我对这个结果非常满意。

But, you know, I was I was very happy with it.

那是我第一个全年盈利的年头。

It was my first entire year that I was profitable.

所以我一直记得那是我人生的转折点。

So I always remember that as kind of the the turning point for me.

所以你坚持只做短期看涨期权？

And so you stuck with just simply going long call options for a very short term.

当你完全理解了隐含波动率的情况后，有没有想过做空那些泡沫股票的超高隐含波动率虚值看涨期权？

And once you fully grasped the whole IV situation, were you ever tempted to short out of the money calls with sky high IVs on some of these bubble stocks?

出乎意料的是，没有。

Surprisingly, no.

我只是不喜欢这个想法。

I just don't like the idea.

我一点都不喜欢。

I didn't like it at all.

我现在依然不喜欢。

I still don't like it.

我从未卖空过看涨期权。

I have never shorted a call.

纯粹是风险回报比的考量。

Just the the idea of the risk reward.

我也从未裸卖过看跌期权。

I've also never shorted a naked put.

我会做信用价差这类策略，但我希望风险能在可控范围内。

I will do credit spreads and things of those nature, but, I like the risk to be capped at a certain extent.

我喜欢知道最坏的情况。

I like knowing the worst possible scenario.

我就是讨厌持仓有无限下行风险的想法。

I just hate the idea of having the unlimited downside on a position.

太棒了。

So great.

所以你坚持了这个策略，2022年效果如何？

So you you stuck with this, strategy, and how did it go in, 2022?

你现在还坚持那个突破策略吗？

And what you you still stuck with that, breakout strategy?

是的。

Yeah.

我当时确实坚持了这个策略。

So I was I was sticking with that.

2022年，我实现了49%的收益。

In 2022, I did 49%.

2023年，我的表现好多了。

In 2023, I did much better.

我记得收益率是103%。

I did, I believe it was 103%.

那是我表现较好的年份之一。

So that was one of my better years.

之后通常保持在50%到100%的区间。

And then after that, it was typically anywhere from the range of 50 to 100%.

这很大程度上取决于我遇到的交易机会数量，以及我在这些机会上的仓位大小。

Very, very, very contingent on the amount of setups I got and obviously my trade size that I'm putting on these setups.

这些都基于主观判断，比如根据价格走势等因素来评估交易机会的质量。

And that's all based off discretionary actions like how good I think the setup is just based off, you know, the price action, things of that nature.

后来我能够量化这些标准，但当时主要还是靠直觉。

Later down the line, I was able to quantify it, but back then it was more just just intuition at that point.

那么你认为2023年相比早年更高的收益，是源于策略的完善、选股能力的提升，还是单纯因为市场运气好？

And so do you attribute the higher returns in 2023 versus the earlier years due to any kind of refinement, or do you just getting better at at picking out the high quality trades, the nuances behind it, or do you feel it was just kind of the market kind of luck that you had those higher returns?

我很想说是我通过不断练习提高了交易水平。

I would love to say that I sat here and got much better at trading.

那样说会显得很棒。

That would be fantastic.

虽然能让我看起来更厉害，但事实上，回顾那一年的交易记录（我保留了所有交易日志）

Certainly make me look good, but in all reality, that that year, just looking back at my trades, I I keep a journal of all my trades.

只能说那年我的胜率确实异常地高。

You know, I just had an exceptionally high win rate.

我并没有做什么特别的事或改变什么策略。

I didn't really do anything special or change anything.

当时市场行情正好适合这种策略。

The market was just in favor of the strategy at that time.

我相信每个交易者都明白，策略会有表现优异的阶段，也会经历表现不佳的时期，你必须坦然接受。

And I'm sure every trader knows strategies will go through great periods, and they'll also go through periods where they underperform, and you just have to take it for what it is.

所以那一年，我很幸运地获得了一点运气。

So with that year, I was fortunate to be a little bit lucky.

市场站在了我这边。

I had the market on my side.

那是在2023年，市场从熊市低点复苏并开始回升。

That was 2023 when the market recovered off the bear market lows and started going back up.

对吧？

Right?

所以顺风助力了你的那种看涨期权策略？

So that the wind at your back helped you with those that kind of call option strategy?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实帮助巨大，你知道，顺应整体市场趋势交易，与指数走势一致。

It definitely helped a ton, you know, trading with the trend of the overall market, matching with the indices.

我当时确实考虑到了市场强度因素。

I did take into account strength at that time.

那其实是我刚开始学习这个的时候，所以我能将其转化为优势。

That's actually when I first started learning about it, so I was able to use that as an advantage.

我确信那确实帮了大忙，但绝不能把额外的成功全归功于它。

I'm sure that, you know, helped a considerable amount, but definitely not definitely can't attribute that to all of the extra success.

嗯。

Mhmm.

看来你在股市已经足够成功了。

So you were successful enough with the stock market.

你有没有想过重回加密货币或其他市场，还是坚持做你最拿手的？

Did you ever feel tempted to go back to crypto or any other markets, or are you just stuck to your bread and butter?

所以我只专注于期权交易。

So I just stuck to options.

从那时起，我就爱上了期权。

From from that point forward, I just loved options.

关键在于理解波动性的运作方式。

The the main point was how the volatility worked.

我我觉得这太神奇了，即使是一个很平庸的交易，只要波动率上升而你站在正确的一方，选对了行权价，就能获得远超加密货币、期货乃至世界上任何其他投资的超额回报。

I I just thought it was amazing how you could really just be in a very mediocre trade, but the volatility increases and you're on the right side, you pick the right strike prices, you can just get outsized returns compared to crypto, futures, really anything else in the world.

你的交易情况如何了，现在到了哪一年？

How did your trading go for, what year are we on to now?

2024年，还是2025年？

2024, 2025?

是的。

Yeah.

2024年我过得非常棒，部分归功于运气。

So 2024, I had a fantastic year, partly due to luck.

到年底11月左右时，我的收益达到了约80%。

So towards the end of the year around November, I was up around 80%.

所以这一年依然非常出色。

So still a a great year.

但之后，我在黄金交易上做了一笔漂亮的期权交易，操作的是黄金指数的期权。

But then after that, I had a fantastic trade on gold, trading options on the gold index.

其中有一笔交易，让我当年的收益从80%飙升到了年底的580%。

And there was one single trade on that that took me from 80 percent on that year to 580% by the end of the year.

所以进展得非常顺利，但再次强调，很大程度上是运气使然，不过无论如何，总体而言我还是非常满意的。

So it went extraordinary well, but again, you know, it was a large part luck, but, you know, overall very happy with it regardless.

黄金价格通常随时间推移缓慢变动，整体呈趋势性市场。

So gold tends to move rather slowly over time, generally trending market.

你具体采取了什么操作，才能在黄金交易中取得如此巨大的收益？

What what did you do specifically to get such a big win out of out of gold?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，它是在一个盘整期买入的，然后确实出现了一点回调至指数移动平均线的情况，这正是我想看到的。

So I mean, it was bought in sort of a consolidation period, and then we did have a little bit of a dip back to the exponential moving averages, which is what I like to see.

在那段时期，成交量某种程度上确认了反弹即将结束。

And then during that period, we had the volume kind of confirming that the bounce was ending.

我画出了一条长期支撑线，然后冒险投入了全部5%的资金。

I had a long term support line draw it out, and I risked the entire 5%.

我将其归类为A+级设置，满分10分，结果反弹力度极大，而且这些都是周度期权。

It's what I classified as an A plus setup, a 10 out of 10, and it just bounced super hard, and these were weekly options.

所以，你知道，它直接就飞涨起来了。

So, you know, it just absolutely took off.

在这段旅程中，你有和亲友分享这些内容吗？

During this journey, are you sharing, any of this with, friends or family?

如果有什么反应的话？

And, and if so, what were their reactions?

其实没有。

So not really.

你知道，我更喜欢保持低调。

You know, I like to keep it a little bit private.

我不太想让朋友知道我的交易情况。

I didn't really want my friends knowing what I did.

直到2025年才开始分享这些，那时我已经交易了六七年，从加密货币起步，直到2025年才真正开设了对冲基金。

I really started to share it just recently in 2025, just from trading for about six to seven years at this point, starting with crypto all the way up until 2025, I actually opened my my hedge fund.

当我开设那家对冲基金时，实际上决定，我可能需要投资者。

And when I opened that hedge fund, actually decided, you know, I'm probably gonna need investors.

我应该开始宣传我的投资回报，向朋友、家人和同事推销，那时我才开始公开这一切。

I should probably start advertising my returns, selling my friends, my family, my colleagues, and that's when I started publicizing all of it.

那么实际创办一家对冲基金需要做些什么呢？

So what goes into actually starting a a hedge fund?

是不是有很多文书工作，你是怎么做到的？

Is it a lot of paperwork, and how did you do it?

大量的文书工作和合规要求，还有与律师的频繁沟通。

A lot of paperwork compliance and too much talking to attorneys.

但显然，我相信人们都明白这是一项成本极高的事情。

But, so obviously, I'm sure people are aware it's a very expensive thing to do.

这就是为什么我觉得在经历如此辉煌的一年后，现在正是最佳时机。

So that's why I felt it was such a great time to do it after such a great year.

但实际上，从我很早开始交易时——刚尝到期权的甜头时——我就知道自己终将创立对冲基金。

But in reality, knew I wanted to start a hedge fund since I was very early into trading, just getting that first taste of options really.

所以这是我一直以来的目标。

So it was a goal for a while.

然后当我有了那个丰收年后，我决定，现在我有足够的资金，对自己的交易也有足够信心。

And then once I had that great year, I decided, you know, I have enough capital now, I have enough confidence in my trading.

我相信如果人们看到过去几年的这些数字，他们会很乐意投资。

And I'm sure if people see these numbers for the past few years, they would love to invest.

这就是真正促使我开始的原因。

So that's really what got me started on it.

然后，你知道，我们就着手做了。

And then, you know, we worked on it.

筹备了大约六个月才正式启动，确切地说我们今年的首次启动日期是5月8日。

It took about six months to launch, and we actually got our first launch date of this year in May 8 to be exact.

请原谅刚才的打扰。

Excuse the last interruption here.

我是泰莎。

This is Tessa.

希望到目前为止您喜欢这一期节目。

We hope you're enjoying this episode so far.

如果您喜欢这个播客，请在任何收听平台上为《与交易者对话》给予您最好的评价。

If you love the podcast, please give Chat With Traders the best review you can on whatever platform you're listening from.

这将帮助我们持续推出新节目。

This will help us to keep the episodes coming.

另外，如果您还未订阅我们的邮件列表，请访问chatwithtraders.com并点击.

Also, if you haven't subscribed to our email list, please hop on to chatwithtraders.com and click on subscribe so we can keep you posted of information that may be of importance.

谢谢。

Thank you.

现在让我们回到与嘉宾的对话中。

Now back to the chat with our guests.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

恭喜你完成了这段旅程。

Well, congratulations on that journey.

那么对于你所采用的策略，你是否已经摸清资金规模的上限在哪里？

So with the strategy that you use, have you figured out is there kind of an upper limit on how much money you can easily deploy?

是的。

Yes.

实际上我们在对冲基金中运用了多种策略。

So we we actually use a a lot of strategies at at the the hedge fund.

我们被归类为多策略对冲基金。

We're classified as a multi strategy hedge fund.

我们设定的资产管理规模上限是1.5亿美元。

Our AUM that we would cap out at is at 150,000,000.

因此我们预计至少未来三到五年内都能保持完美顺畅的运作。

So we foresee us being able to operate perfectly smoothly for at least another three to five years.

等达到那个规模后，我们的策略就会因流动性问题而触顶。

And then once we get to that point, our strategies would cap out just because of the liquidity issues.

到那时，虽然有很多解决方案，但我们很可能不得不开始向投资者分配利润或直接关闭基金。

And from there, you know, there are a bunch of solutions, but we're most likely going to have to start really just distributing profits back to investors at that point or closing the fund down.

不过，你知道，除非我们准备退休，否则我们可能不会选择那样做。

But, you know, we probably wouldn't choose that unless we're ready to retire.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

所以你提到了其他策略。

So you mentioned other strategies.

你们还涉足了哪些其他策略？原因是什么？在这些策略上你们有多少经验？

What other what other strategies did you get into and kind of why and how much experience do you have with them?

所有策略，我简单快速列举一下。

All all the strategies, I'll just list them out very quickly.

我们确实保留了最初那个版本的摆动交易策略，就是寻找布林带指标中的背离信号和其他所有信号。

We do have a version of the original one, the swing trading strategy where you wanna look for a divergence and and all of these signals with the Bollinger Bands.

举个例子，大约两周前我们在Meta上做了一笔非常成功的摆动交易，当时它跳空低开并持续缓慢下跌。

An example of that would be about two weeks ago, we had a fantastic swing trade on Meta where it gapped down and it just slowly trended down.

我相信你和许多其他人都看到了这个行情。

I'm sure you and tons of other people have seen that.

所有人都在关注Meta，结果它正如我们所愿地快速上涨。

Everyone watches Meta, and it ended up shooting up and exactly like we like.

这种情况发生得很快，伴随着大蜡烛图，波动性上升。

It happens very quick with big candles, the volatility goes up.

这就是我们使用的策略之一。

So that's the one strategy we use.

至于波段交易策略，我们每个月大概只能做成一笔交易，但你知道，我们保留它，我们喜欢它，它非常容易监控，所以没有理由不用它。

Swing trading strategy, we only really get about one trade a month on that one, but you know, we keep it, we love it, it's very easy to monitor, so no point in not using that one.

第二个是我之后学到的策略，就是我们刚讨论的突破策略，然后我们还用了另外两种。

The second one is the next strategy I learned after that, the breakout one that we just talked about, and then we use two more.

另外两种是更短期的零日到期策略。

And those two are shorter term zero DTE strategies.

第一种是我们对经典突破回测的改良版，我们会标出盘前高点和盘前低点，这种策略适用于SPY、QQQ和蓝筹股，我们喜欢在每次零日到期时做单腿看涨期权或借方价差。

The first one, what we do is our spin on the classic break and retest, where we'll mark out the pre market high and pre market low, and this is traded on SPY, QQQ, and the blue chip stocks, and we like to do single leg calls or debit spreads on these zero DTE every single time.

我们要做的就是突破并回测。

We want to break and retest.

我们拥有所有这些带有高成交量ATR指标的指标。

We have all of these indicators with high volume ATR measures.

我们使用RSI指标。

We use the RSI.

我们使用一种叫做DSS BRESR的指标，这是我最喜欢的之一，但其中涉及很多因素，我们通常只持有这些交易约五到十五分钟，这是我们的表现最佳策略之一，排名第二，而排名第一的是我们整个基金的王牌策略。

We use something called the DSS BRESR indicator, which is one of my favorite ones, but a whole bunch of things go into that, and we really only hold those trades for about five to fifteen minutes, and that one is one of our highest performing, our second highest performing one, our first and our flagship strategy of the entire fund.

实际上我们操作的是SPX的零日到期蝶式期权，但不会在SPY上进行这类交易。

What we do actually is zero DTE butterflies on the SPX, and we won't trade them on SPY.

我们会查看SPY的图表，因为你显然可以看到延长交易时段的情况。

We'll look at the chart on SPY because you can obviously look at the extended hours.

这在SPX上是看不到的。

You don't get that on SPX.

此外，SPX是现金结算的，所以你不会被任何东西拖住。

Additionally, SPX is cash settled, so you won't be left hanging with anything.

我们的做法是查看这些伽马热图，同时考虑市场庄家的各种工具，比如魅力指标等。

And what we do is we look at these gamma heat maps, we take into account charm, all of these market maker tools.

我们使用一种名为'期权深度'的特定工具来展示这一点，并且我们还开发了自己的工具。

We use something specific called options depth, which shows it, and we've also created our own tools.

本质上，我们操作的是5到10倍杠杆的蝶式期权，这些期权会固定在某个点位，虽然胜率只有52%，但平均收益率高达950%。正如你所知，这些蝶式期权由于范围极窄，每笔交易都能获得500%到2000%的收益，尽管胜率不高，但概率优势显著，这是我们真正的主力策略。

And essentially what we do is five to 10 with butterflies that will pin, and it only has a 52% win rate, but the average win on it is 950%, and as you know, these butterflies, so every single trade will close anywhere within 500 to 2000% because they're so narrow and you just get great probabilities on them despite the 52 win rate, and that is really the flagship one that we use.

这些都是针对短期零日到期（DTE）的SPY期权吗？

And these are on short term zero DTE SPY options?

仅限于SPX，只做SPX的期权。

SPX only for the SPX.

正确。

Correct.

正确。

Correct.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

嗯，对于一个受到如此广泛关注的指数来说，这样的回报率确实相当高。

That seems well, that's quite quite a high return for for an index that is so widely watched.

你认为是什么原因让你们能获得如此高的回报？

Is there what do you attribute these super high returns that you can get with that?

既然这么广为人知，为什么不是所有人都在做这个呢？

Wouldn't everyone be doing this because it's so widely viewed?

没错。

Right.

其实我最初完全不懂这个运作方式，但当我开始筹备对冲基金时，自然咨询了很多律师和其他现在与我关系密切的对冲基金从业者。

You know, I actually had no idea about how this worked, but when I was starting my hedge fund, I was obviously talking to a lot of lawyers and a lot of other members of people now that I'm very close friends with who had hedge funds.

我尤其记得遇到这样一个人，他的对冲基金过去每年都保持500%的收益，我记得持续了大概九年。

And I met this one person in particular, and I remember his hedge fund was doing 500% every single year for the past, I think it was like nine years.

这简直让我震惊——我580%的年收益已经是靠绝对运气才达到的个人最佳记录了。

And it just, it blew my mind that 580% was my best year by far by absolute luck.

而这个人却能稳定保持500%的收益率。

And this guy was doing 500% consistently.

我一开始还不相信这个结果。

And I didn't believe it at first.

他向我展示了他的基金审计报告和所有相关资料。

He showed me the audited reports of his fund and everything.

他确实教会了我很多关于如何使用大多数交易者实际上未曾听闻的工具。

And he really taught me so much about how to use things that most traders actually haven't heard about.

你会惊讶的，这些伽玛水平、魅力值——当然有期权希腊字母，但实际上还有二阶导数、三阶导数，甚至单一变量的四阶导数。

You'd be surprised, these gamma levels, charm, there's obviously options Greeks, but there's actually second degree derivatives, there's third degree derivatives, and there's fourth degree a single fourth degree derivative of these as well.

而所有这些交易者不了解的领域，正是我们获取全部优势的地方，我们能够利用这种优势获得非常超常的回报。

And all of these that traders don't know about, that is where we get essentially our entire edge, and we're able to kind of exploit that advantage to get very outsized returns.

嘿。

Hey.

快速说明一下背景。

Quick note for context.

在我们结束这次采访后，我们跟进联系了贾马尔，以澄清一些你刚才听到的业绩数据以及部分策略细节是如何得出的。

After we wrapped this interview, we followed up with Jamal to clarify a few of the performance figures that you just heard and how some of the strategy details were derived.

关于他提到的另一个基金基金年化约500%的例子，他告诉我们无法透露该基金名称，并大致描述为一种基于关键点位斐波那契回撤的突破策略。

On the example he referenced of another fund doing roughly 500% annually, he told us he is not able to share the name of that fund and described it at a high level as a breakout based approach using Fibonacci retracements from key levels.

关于他自己的旗舰策略，他澄清说该策略已实盘交易约三年，且仅交易SPX指数的零日期蝶式期权，通常构建5或10点宽的结构。

Now on his own flagship strategy, he clarified that it has been live traded for about three years and that it is zero DTE butterflies exclusively on the SPX, typically built with five or 10 wide structures.

正如他所描述的，该策略的核心理论围绕价格可能钉住的位置，运用他称之为二级导数的方法。

The underlying thesis as he described it is centered around where price may pin using what he referred to as second level derivatives.

他还澄清了结果的分布情况。

He also clarified the distribution of outcomes.

他表示大约

He stated that approx.

52%的交易属于他描述的大幅盈利范围，而其余交易通常会导致损失约50%至100%的风险溢价。

52% of trades fall into the large winner range he described, while the remaining trades typically result in losses of about 50% to 100% of the premium at risk.

最后关于风险调整指标，他表示由于基金结构原因，某些数据不对外公开，任何他能披露的信息都已发布在其官网上并经过第三方审计。

And finally, on risk adjusted metrics, he said that due to his funds structure, certain figures aren't shared publicly and that any information he is able to disclose is available on his website and has been audited by a third party.

哇。

Wow.

这真令人印象深刻。

That's impressive.

那么你们目前管理的资产规模有多大？

So how many how much assets under management are are you currently at?

我们目前略低于50。

So we're currently right under 50.

哇。

Wow.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

最后总结一下，作为交易员，你过去和现在面临的最大挑战是什么？

So to wrap things up, what do you struggle with most as a trader and and now and in the past?

过去，正如那些战争故事可能表明的，绝对是风险管理。

In the past, it was, you know, as the war stories may have indicated, it was most definitely risk management.

现在面临的则是完全不同的困境，我几乎在策略间切换得太频繁了。

Now, it's really a different set of struggles where I almost flip through strategies too much.

我还想开发更多策略，自从我们最近获得那两个新策略后，基金表现一直很好。

I want to develop even more strategies, and, you know, ever since we got the most recent two, our funds has been doing great.

而我心里总想着，好吧，你知道，它们永远有改进空间。

And in my head, it's like, okay, well, you know, they can always be better.

所以我总是在调整策略，试图做出改变。

So I'm always tweaking things and trying to change it up.

但通常这些交易调整最终并没有实现优化，反而拉低了统计数据。

And and usually the trades or the the changes don't actually end up being an optimization, but it actually takes the stats down.

所以我最大的困扰可以归类为纪律问题——明明知道某个策略有效，却总忍不住去改动它。我需要学会信任策略，停止无谓的折腾，别再找100件其他事来做，而是保持耐心等待交易机会出现。

So my biggest struggle is kind of just, you can kind of classify it as discipline, where I already know that a strategy works, but I just need to trust in the strategy, stop trying to mess around with it, find a 100 other things, to do, and just sit there, be patient, and wait for the setups to happen.

对于那些不断爆仓却拒绝放弃的交易者，你有什么建议？

What advice would you give to, traders who keep blowing up their accounts, but, refuse to quit?

作为经历过同样困境的人，我的建议绝对是：练习风险管理。

So, as someone that struggled with the the same thing, it it would definitely be practice risk management.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当我第一次听说每笔交易只能冒账户2%的风险时，简直如遭雷击。

When I first heard that you're only supposed to risk 2% of your account per trade, I was devastated.

我当时不明白这样怎么可能赚到钱，但关键是要制定一套能让你坚持执行的规则，然后从那一刻起严格遵守。

I didn't know how anyone was supposed to make money like that, but really just make a set of rules that will help you stick to it, and just stick to it from that point.

这一切都关乎于纪律。

It's all about discipline.

嗯，说得很好。

Well, great.

贾马尔，感谢你参加《与交易者对话》节目。

Jamal, I'd like to thank you for, coming on Chat with Traders.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

这真是莫大的荣幸，感谢您的邀请。

It's been an absolute pleasure, and I thank you for having me.

我们的听众如何能联系到您呢？

And how can our listeners get in touch with you?

是这样的，虽然我们没有公开网站来展示基金运作，但我知道很多导师会开设交易教育频道——我并没有这类频道。不过欢迎大家随时在LinkedIn上查找我并发送私信，我很乐意在那里回复。

So, you know, we don't actually have a public website or what we do for our fund, but specifically, I know a lot of gurus have the trading education channels, which I don't have, but anyone is feel please feel free to look me up on LinkedIn and shoot me a DM, and I'm more than happy to reply there.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

那你在LinkedIn上的账号是什么？

And what what's your handle on LinkedIn?

就是我的名字，贾马尔·高里（Jamal Ghauri），拼写是j a m a a l，高里拼作g h a u r I。

It's just my my name, Jamal Ghauri, and that's j a m a a l, and then Ghauri is g h a u r I.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

感谢你参加节目。

Thanks for coming on the show.

当然。

Of course.

这是我的荣幸。

My pleasure.

您已收听完毕本期《与交易者对话》，但请放心，更多满载真实市场洞见、毫无噱头的节目即将陆续推出。

You've reached the end of this episode of chat with traders, but rest assured, there are more episodes loaded with real market insight and zero hype on the way soon.

请及时订阅我们的播客节目，在iTunes上获取最新内容更新，如果您能留下评分和评论，我们将不胜感激。

So to stay updated with each great new release, subscribe to the podcast in iTunes, and we'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review.

下次《与交易者对话》节目再见。

We'll catch you next time on chat with traders.