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汽车现在能在城市中自动驾驶。
Cars now steer themselves through our cities.
机器人在手术室里稳操手术刀，无人机正在重新定义战争的未来。
Robots hold steady hands in the operating room, and drones are redefining the future of war.
第一代人形机器人、工厂自动化和自动驾驶汽车的创新都源于私营部门的投资热潮。
Innovations of first generation humanoids, factory automation, and autonomous vehicles have surged from private sector investment.
这些进步每一项都由人工智能驱动。
Every one of these advancements is powered by AI.
机器人时代已经来临。
The robots are here.
我们的未来不再是科幻小说。
Our future is no longer science fiction.
比特币星期五快乐，伙计们。
Happy Bitcoin Friday, freaks.
我是主持人奥德尔，欢迎收看新一期《公民快讯》——这档互动直播节目专注于比特币实操和自由科技的讨论。
It's your host, Odell, here for another Civil Dispatch, the interactive live show focused on actionable Bitcoin and freedom tech discussion.
刚才的开场片段正是我们的第一夫人梅拉尼娅·特朗普在谈论机器人时代的到来。
That intro clip was none other than our first lady, Melania Trump, talking about the robots being here.
这周我找不到想用的比特币片段，所以就用她的视频代替了。
I could not find a I could not find a Bitcoin clip I wanted to use for this week, so you got her instead.
希望你们喜欢。
I hope you enjoyed it.
和往常一样，《快讯》节目由观众通过Zaps打赏、聪（Sats）和比特币捐赠资助。
As always, Dispatch is funded by our audience with Zaps, with Sats, Bitcoin donations.
我们没有广告，也没有赞助商。
We have no ads, no sponsors.
你可以在zilladispatch.com找到所有节目链接。
You can find all links to the show at zilladispatch.com.
支持节目最简单的方式是通过Noster上的Zaps功能。
The easiest way to support the show is through Zaps on Noster.
上周我们最大的Zap来自Trazen。
Our largest Zaps last week were Trazen.
铁杆粉丝Trazen（t r a z y n）又贡献了一笔惊人的打赏。
Ride or Die Freak Trazen, t r a z y n, saying another amazing rip.
发送了54,000套。
54,000 sets sent.
谢谢。
Thank you.
还有铁杆粉丝map 21的10,000聪大额打赏。
And ride or die freak map 21, great rip, 10,000 sats.
你也可以通过Fountain等播客2.0应用支持节目。
And you can also support the show through podcasting two point o apps like fountain podcast.
那边最大的一笔打赏来自BTC shelling point，21,000聪。
Largest zap over there was BTC shelling point with 21,000 sats.
留言说'推动进程'。
Said moving the needle.
很期待能亲手拿到这个。
Excited to see this in my hands.
自从上周在Primal，我们已经推出了直播支持功能。
Since last week at Primal, we have launched live streaming support.
现在你可以通过Primal应用在网页、安卓和iPhone上观看节目并互动。
So now you can watch and interact with the show through the Primal app on web, Android, and iPhone.
在iPhone上有个小故障，只有打赏后才能聊天。
On iPhone, we have a small glitch where you can only chat if you zap.
所以即使你只打赏1聪，也能在那里添加评论。
So even if you just include one sat, you can add a comment in there.
我们确实正在准备更新，但需要经过苹果商店审核。
We do have an update in the works, but it's gotta go through the Apple Store.
希望很快就能发布。
So, hopefully, that'll be out soon.
这并非有意为之。
It wasn't intentional.
不过，我有点喜欢用聪来解锁聊天的想法。
Although, I'm kinda liking the idea of SATs for chat.
所以我们可能会将其设为选项，让主播可以选择直播间聊天需要多少聪的门槛。
So we might make that a setting where streamers can choose how many stats are required to chat in the live chat.
总之，我看到这里有个超大箭头，打赏21000聪，自由技术必胜。
But, anyway, I see super fat arrow here, zap 21,000 stats, freedom tech for the win.
顺便说下，关于Nostril直播的事简单提一句。
And by the way, guys, just real quick on the Nostril live streaming.
这是个开放协议。
It's an open protocol.
这是一个开放标准。
It's an open standard.
如果你进行流媒体传输，仍然可以在ZapStream上观看。
If you stream you can still view the stream in ZapStream.
任何在ZapStream上启动的流，也可以在Primal应用或其他支持的应用（如Nostier、Amethyst或Nostrudel）中观看。
Any streams that are started in ZapStream, can also view in Primal apps, any other app that supports it like Nostier or Amethyst or Nostrudel.
所有这些应用都支持流媒体。
All these apps support the streams.
你也可以自行托管流媒体服务器，ZapStream、Primal等应用都能接入。
You can also self host your own streaming server and ZapStream Primal and all these other pick it up.
这真的非常酷。
It's really, really cool.
我认为我们正处于早期阶段，正在追赶Twitch、X和YouTube。
Think we're, like, on the early stages of of coming after Twitch and X and YouTube.
我真的很兴奋。
I'm really excited.
不过，各位怪咖们，今天我们有个很棒的节目。
But, anyway, freaks, we have a great show today.
我们有Eggie在这里，他是npub的维护者和创建者。
We have Eggie here, maintainer, creator of npub.
Cache，一个我非常喜欢在Cashew生态系统中使用的工具。
Cache, a tool that I absolutely love working in the Cashew ecosystem.
最近怎么样，先生？
How's it going, sir?
欢迎来到节目现场。
Welcome to the show.
非常感谢邀请我参加。
Thank you so much for having me.
我很好。
I'm good.
你看到我们请来的这位了吗？肯定是个iOS狂热粉。
Did you see we got this guy must be an iOS freaky.
他上周刚给我们发了个SAT。
He just zapped us one sat.
说真的，感谢你推动进展并一直支持这个节目。
Really, thank you for moving the needle and really supporting the show.
这让我每周都坚持回来。
It keeps me coming back week after week.
我想先聊聊，我们可以讨论很多不同的话题。
I wanna start we can talk about a bunch of different things.
哦，他甚至不是个iOS狂热粉。
Oh, he's he's not even an iOS freak.
他不用发SAT也能聊天。
He can chat without sending a sat.
所以谢谢你。
So thank you.
谢谢你发送SAT。
Thank you for sending the SAT.
我想从你们的项目mpub.cache开始聊起。
I wanna start with your project mpub.cache.
我是说，我觉得它太棒了。
I mean, I think it's awesome.
我是用户。
I'm a user.
你可以通过odel@mpub.cache联系我。
You can zap me at odel@mpub.cache.
它是什么？
What is it?
人们为什么要关心这个？
Why should people care?
让我们从宏观层面开始。
Let's start high level.
对。
Yeah.
当然。
Sure.
嗯。
Yeah.
所以ntop。
So ntop.
Cache的核心概念，基本上就是基于Nossa和Kashu为每个人打造闪电网络地址。
Cache, the idea basically is a lightning address for everyone based on on Nossa and Kashu.
如果你曾经用过不同的闪电网络地址，就会知道你需要某种网络服务来托管它。
So if you ever had a different Lightning address, you know that it's like you need a web service of some sorts to host it.
通常这是通过托管人来完成的。
Usually that is done via custodian.
这可能就是大多数人获取闪电网络地址的方式。
That's probably where most people get the Lightning addresses.
你可以自己操作，但需要一个LN URL服务器。
You can do it yourself, but you require an LN URL server.
要在Tor上设置个人私密笔记之类的相当麻烦。
It's a bit of a headache to set up with a personal private note on Tor and stuff.
所以当我开始研究Cashew时，我最喜欢的一点——同样在Ostris上也是——这两个协议最棒的地方在于所有都是公共基础设施。
So when I started working on Cashew, the thing that I love the most and also on Ostris, the thing that I love the most about these two protocols is everything is public infrastructure.
你不需要自己搭建任何东西。
You don't need to do your own stuff.
当然你也可以自己搭建，对吧？
You can do your own stuff, right?
但有了现成的中继站，你就不必自己搭建，直接与它们通信即可。
But with relays out there that don't require you to set up something yourself, you could just communicate with them.
而Cache具备这些功能。
And Cache has the mins.
你无需自行搭建就能直接与它们通信。
You can just communicate with them without having to set up something yourself.
你可以直接利用公共基础设施来构建应用。
You can use public infrastructure to just build things.
我当时就想，好吧，也许我们可以基于这个构建一个闪电网络地址。
So I was like, Okay, maybe we can build a Lightning address on that.
结果证明我们确实做到了。
And turns out we were able to do that.
所以这本质上就是NPUB缓存。
So that's basically NPUB cache.
这是一个无需注册的闪电网络地址。
It's a lighting address that does not require sign up.
它仅基于你的NPUB身份，使用NPUB公钥和私钥进行认证。
It just is based on your NPUB identity that uses NPUB public keys and private keys for authentication.
如果你有Oster账户，你就自动拥有一个npub.cache闪电地址，因为你的npub@npub.cache已经是你的闪电地址了。
And if you have an Oster account, you have an npub dot cache lightning address because it's your npub at npub dot cache is already your lightning address.
所以只要我知道你的npub，我就可以给你打赏，你可以稍后兑换这些sats。
So if I know your npub, I can zap you and you can redeem the sets later on.
太棒了。
Love it.
没错。
Yeah.
我觉得最酷的地方在于，任何拥有Nonser NPUB的人都能立即获得对应的闪电地址，完全无需设置。
I mean, I think that's the coolest part is that basically anyone who has a Nonser NPUB immediately has a corresponding Lightning address with zero setup.
就像，他们可以...他们可以稍后再了解这部分细节。
Like, they can you can like, they can figure that part out later.
如果你直接往那个地址打赏，他们最终就能去领取并兑换这些sats。
If if you just zap them there, they will eventually be able to go and get the sats and redeem the sats.
我认为这让事情变得容易多了。
I think it makes it way easier.
我是说，我认为任何活跃在Nostril生态系统中的人都见过这个痛点——如何获得我的第一个Zaps。
I mean, I think anyone that's been active in the Nostril ecosystem has seen the pain point that is how do I get my first Zaps.
对吧？
Right?
比如，第一批Zaps是从哪里来的？
Like, where do the first zaps come from?
是啊。
Yeah.
这某种程度上也是ntop的起源故事。
That's also kind of the origin story of ntop.
缓存了一点。
Cached a bit.
所以在开始构建ntop之前。
So before we got started building ntop.
缓存作为一个独立项目时，我还在开发一个OSA客户端。
Cached as a standalone thing, I was still working on an OSA client.
它叫Current。
It was called Current.
那还是早期阶段。
It was early days.
所以我们把Current做成半托管性质的东西。
So we built Current as a half custodial thing.
简单来说，我们托管了一个内置的闪电网络钱包，属于托管性质。
So basically, there was an inbuilt Lightning Wallet that was hosted by us that was custodial.
因为我们一直觉得，如果能将新人引入Nosser平台——这个项目的核心目标就是把其他平台的用户迁移到Nosser上来。
Because we always felt like, Okay, if you onboard new people to Nosser, that was always the goal of the project to onboard people from other platforms to get them over to Nosser.
而Zabs正是实现这一目标的主要原因之一，因为Zabs实在太棒了。
And Zabs are one of the main reasons to do that, because Zabs are just amazing.
但你需要提供简单界面——即使人们不懂比特币，也能在不进行复杂设置的情况下使用它。
But then you need to provide some simple interface to if people don't understand what Bitcoin is, they still should be able to kind of use it without having to set up a lot of stuff.
所以我们最初的解决方案是托管模式。
So our first solution to this was custodial.
但这显然是个很糟糕的方案。
But that was a very bad solution, obviously.
首先，这不符合我们的初衷。
First of all, because it's not the thing that we want to do.
其次，通过苹果审核就是个噩梦——比如你在原生应用里放托管钱包，苹果肯定不会满意。
And second of all, because it's just such a headache going through Apple, for example, when you build a native app and you have a custodial wallet in there, Apple's not going to be happy about that.
或者说想让苹果满意非常困难。
Or it's very difficult to get Apple happy.
于是我们想：或许可以在原生应用里用LDK等技术构建非托管闪电钱包。
So that was when we thought, Okay, maybe we can build a non custodial Lightning Wallet with LDK or other stuff in our native app.
但随之而来的难题是：怎么处理闪电地址？
But then you get the challenge, well, how do you do the lighting address?
因为这又是Osta平台上获得最佳体验的关键要素之一。
Because that's, again, one of the key things that is required on Osta to have the most fun.
你需要闪电网络地址，因为应用是基于闪电地址构建的。
You need the lighting address because apps build on lighting addresses.
这个想法大致就是这么来的。
And that's kind of where the idea came from.
那是在Sec时期，FreeMed时代，亚特兰蒂斯会议上。
It was during Sec one, during the FreeMed era, the Atlantis conference.
是的，所以这个想法就是这么来的。
And yeah, so that's where the idea came from.
然后当前的趋势就逐渐消失了。
And then current kind of went away.
我当时就觉得，这仍然是个很棒的东西，我们应该把它做成独立服务供所有人使用。
And I was like, this is still a great thing, and we should have it as a standalone service for anyone to use.
我认为当时的主要愿景是：嘿，主客户端们，你们应该默认使用这个。
And I think the main vision back then was, hey, master clients, you should probably use this as a default.
如今我看到最多的是缓存钱包默认使用它。
Today, what I see most use is cache wallets using it as a default.
就像说：嘿，你有个缓存钱包，现在它还附带闪电地址功能。
And be like, hey, you have a cache wallet, and now it also comes with a Lightning address.
比如cache.me就有emperor功能。
So for example, cache.me has emperor.
里面有现金。
Cash in it.
Sovereign也有emperor功能。
Sovereign has emperor.
兑现它。
Cash in it.
我正在重写eNotes。
I'm currently rewriting eNotes.
eNotes将会包含mpa.cached功能，就像是，为你的缓存钱包使用或拥有一个闪电网络地址的方式。
ENotes gonna be gonna have mpa.cached in it as, like, the the way of, like, using or having a lightning address for your cache wallet.
是的。
Yeah.
这对我来说很有道理。
That makes sense to me.
我是说，我很喜欢cashew.me。
I mean, I love cashew.me.
根据我与Cali的交流，我的理解是他使用mpub.cache实现闪电网络地址相对容易。
And my understanding speaking with Cali was it was pretty it was relatively easy for him to implement the lightning addresses using mpub.cache.
那我们快速讨论一下，它是在后端使用缓存。
So let's talk about real quick, like, so it's using cache on the back end.
对。
Yeah.
我...我...这其中最酷的部分是，据我理解，你实际上并不是mpub.cache的托管人。
I it it and and the cool part about that is you're not actually my understanding is you're not actually the custodian for mpub.cache.
对吧？
Right?
它使用的是其他人运营的铸币节点。
It's using mints run by other people.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
所以我在想，这里面有些细微差别。
So I'm I'm like, there's some nuances to this.
首先，就像是...对。
First of all, there's like Yeah.
让我们解释一下这些细微差别。
Let's explain the nuances.
所以...对。
So so right.
就像，在基础案例中，因为铸币厂是真正的托管方。
Like, in the in the in the base case, because the mint is the real custodian.
我是说，这也取决于你如何定义托管方。
Mean, it also depends on how you define custodian.
在基础设置中，那是最兼容的设置。
With the base setup, that is the most compatible setup.
而且把那个缓存放进去，服务器持有缓存批准。
And put that cache, the server is in possession of the cache approves.
所以它...好吧。
So it it Okay.
它持有不记名IO，是的。
It's holding the bearer IO Yes.
确实如此。
Exactly.
所以从技术上讲并不是Got，比如，mint仍然是托管方，但end public cache是下一顺位的托管方。
So it is not Got technically, like, mint is still the custodian, but, like, end public cache is the next in line custodian.
以Cashew为例，它有一个支付到公钥的功能，你可以将代币锁定到某个特定公钥。
Then with Cashew, there's a pay to public key, for example, where you can lock tokens to a certain public key.
因此持有代币的人若没有实际签名，也无法通过mint赎回代币。
So whoever holds the token will not be able to redeem it with the mint without actually signing for it as well.
基于这一点，npop。
So with that, npop.
基本上，Cache实际上不能再作为下一顺位托管方了。
Cache can actually not be in the next in line custodian anymore, basically.
所以如果代币被锁定到你的公钥，即便是npop。
So if the token is locked to your public key, even npop.
Cache也无法动用它。
Cache couldn't spend it.
这对npop其实非常有利。
And it's actually very good for npop.
对Cache也是，因为它不再处于蜜罐中。
Cache as well, because it's not in Honeypot anymore.
这个数据库基本上没有攻击价值。
The database is basically useless to attack.
还有更多细节，因为现在有了ntop。
There's even more nuance, because now there's ntop.
X。
X.
Cache，这是ntop的夜间版本。
Cache, which is the nightly version of ntop.
基本上就是Cache v2。
Cache v2, basically.
我们（或者说我）选择在另一个域名上构建它的原因很明显——我不想破坏现有用户的使用体验。
The reason why we build it on a different or I build it on a different domain is because obviously I didn't want to break it for people that currently use it.
但有个实验性的npub x。
But there's the experimental npub x.
这个Cache的运作方式完全不同。
Cache that works in a completely different way.
从外部看，它依然能正常工作。
From the outside, it still works.
看起来完全一模一样。
It looks like the exact same thing.
但在内部，它甚至不会创建代币（缓存代币）。
But on the inside, it is actually not even creating tokens, cache tokens.
它更像是直接与铸币厂创建铸币凭证。
It is just like creating a mint quote with the mint.
本质上就是请求发票，然后将用于兑换该发票的密钥与铸币厂一起存储。
So basically requesting an invoice and then storing the secret that is used to redeem that invoice with the mint.
然后缓存钱包实际上可以自行前往兑换代币。
And then a cache wallet can actually go there and redeem the token themselves.
等等。
Wait.
那是什么域名？
So what is that domain?
Npubx。
Npubx.
所以
So
对，npubx.cache。
yeah, npubx.cache.
比如你使用cache.me，它已经内置在里面了。
If you for example, if you use cache.me, it's already in there.
你可以在设置里滚动查看。
You can scroll in the settings.
你可以一直滚动到实验性功能部分。
You can scroll all the way down to experimental.
你可以在那里启用它。
You can enable it there.
然后你就会有两个闪电网络聚合点缓存，一个是我的npub。
And then you will have two Lighting Aggressive Point Cache with me, an npub.
缓存和一个npub。
Cache and an npub.
X。
X.
缓存。
Cache.
而npub的亮点在于。
And the cool thing about npub.
X。
X.
我指的是缓存，它主要是为运行npub的人提供的实用功能。
Cache I mean, it's really mostly cool things for people that run npub.
选择缓存是因为最初版本要求服务提供商还需自行搭建闪电网络基础设施。
Cache because the first version required the service provider basically to run their own lightning infrastructure as well.
因为它需要镜像发票、代理发票并进行监控。
Because it would like mirror invoices and like proxy invoices and like watch.
所以对于标准mpub.cache方案，你们是在运行闪电网络
So you're for standard mpub dot cache, you're running Lightning
我在用Blink。
I'm using Blink.
这是众所周知的。
That's pretty common knowledge.
所以我用的是Blink。
So I'm using Blink.
基本上当你支付一个闪电网络发票时，如果是支付给npub。
So basically, when you pay a Lightning invoice if you pay a npub.
缓存地址，你收到的发票并非来自铸币方。
Cache address, the invoice that you receive is not the mints.
这是Blink的发票，因为我可以使用他们的API查看支付状态。
It's Blink's invoice because I can use their API to see when it's paid.
然后我去铸币厂获取相同金额的发票之类的东西。
And then I go to the mint and get an invoice of the same amount and stuff like that.
基本上这主要是些复杂的事情，但用这种方法就很简单，因为你不需要把它们拉进来。
And it was mostly complicated stuff that I've kind of it's the easy way, basically, of doing it, because you didn't need to pull them in.
支付状态非常简单。
Payment state is very easy.
Blink会为你处理这一切。
Blink does all that for you.
但如果你想自托管现金，就需要拥有一个Blink账户。
But it required you to have a Blink account if you wanted to self host cash.
我认为自托管和存放现金是最有趣的部分。
And I think self hosting and and put put up cash is the thing where it gets really interesting.
因为现在一个NOSM客户端或缓存钱包不仅能让你拥有默认的闪电地址，还能选择服务提供商。
Because now a NOSM client or a cache wallet would not only give you the opportunity to have a default lighting address, but you could also pick the provider.
所以基本上，如果你自己托管AMPAP对吧。
So basically, if you hosted your own AMPAP Right.
你可以分发运行该服务的闪电地址。
You could give out lighting addresses running that service.
然后在钱包应用里，你可以直接
And then in the Wallet app, you could just
可以是像npubsideldispatch.com这样的。
It could be like npubsideldispatch.com.
比如说，对吧？
For example, right?
所以npubx也是这样。
And so npubx.
缓存本质上就是个网络服务器。
Cache is literally just a web server.
所以它有个Dockerfile，你可以运行这个Dockerfile，然后它就部署好了。
So it has a Dockerfile, and you can run the Dockerfile, and then it's there.
不需要任何基础设施。
Doesn't require any infrastructure.
它需要一个数据库连接。
It requires a database connection.
目前还没适配SQLite。
It's not written for SQLite yet.
但除此之外，没有闪电网络。
But other than that, there's no lightning.
也没有其他乱七八糟的东西。
There's no whatever.
它还能在多个铸币节点上运行。
It runs on multiple mints as well.
这是个很酷的新功能。
So that's a cool new feature.
用户可以选择自己的铸币节点。
You can choose your own mint as a user.
没错，这是mpub.cache的升级版。
So, yeah, it's the way better version of mpub.cache.
我希望在某个阶段我们能实现合并
And I hope at some point, we were able to merge
基本上就是mpub的翻版
It's basically like mpub yeah.
就像是mpub.cache
It's like mpub dot cache
2.0版本
two point o.
正是如此。
Exactly.
但你并行运行是为了不影响现有用户流程，对吧。
But you're running it parallel so that you don't break the existing user flow Yeah.
因为用户有余额数据，所以你们有点被卡住了。
Because and because people have balances, and you're just kinda stuck a little bit.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我有迁移计划。
I mean, like, I I have migration plans.
这个API看起来完全不同。
The the API just looks very different.
所以我可能会破坏那些实现了npop的人。
So I would kinda break people that implemented npop.
如果我选择合并或迁移，就缓存起来。
Cache if I would just merge them or migrate.
所以这个想法是逐步淘汰。
So the idea is a slow deprecation.
还需要与人们进行大量沟通，看看他们是否升级以及何时升级。
It's a lot of communication with people as well to see if they upgraded and when they upgrade.
然后，嗯，我们有点超前了一点。
Then it's well, we kind of front ran a little bit.
比如，我其实没考虑太多细节。
Like, I didn't really think about a lot of the stuff.
我没想到它会发展得这么快。
I didn't think it would, like, pick up so much speed as well.
所以
So
嗯，我喜欢这样。
Well, I like I like that.
就是这样。
That's that's the way.
我是说，现在对参与直播聊天的各位来说，我打开了Primal移动应用，正在看那里的聊天，它和屏幕上显示的ZapStream聊天并不完全一致。
I mean, right now, just to the freaks that are participating in the live chat, I have the Primal mobile app open, and I'm looking at the chat there, and it's not exactly the same as what is the ZapStream chat, which is being shown on screen.
所以有些评论显示了，有些没有。
So some comments are being shown and some are not.
我猜这与中继器有关，包括评论被发送到哪里以及ZapStream正在调用哪些中继器。
My guess is it has to do with relays and where the comments are being sent and which relays ZapStream is pulling up.
但我喜欢实时解决问题。
But I like figuring out things live.
比如，我喜欢公开实验、迭代，试图弄清楚事物运作的原理。
Like, I like experimenting, iterating out in the open, trying to figure out how things work.
我觉得mpub.cash最酷的一点就在于——它完美吗？显然不完美。
And I think that was one of the coolest parts about mpub.cash for me because it was just like, yeah, is it perfect?
确实，它并不完美。
Like, no, it's not perfect.
也许有一天它会接近完美，但现在能用就行。
Maybe one day it'll be close to perfect, but it works.
就是单纯能用。
Like, just works.
现在就能用，任何人都能轻松接收Zaps打赏。
It works today and anyone can just easily just receive Zaps.
关于公开构建和迭代的问题，作为一个高频使用的npub用户，我注意到一个现象。
So one of the issues in terms of building in the open and iterating, one of the issues I noticed as a prolific npub.
经常使用Zap功能（既打赏也接收）的缓存用户。
Cache user that Zapped a lot and received a lot of Zaps.
顺便说，人们总说'Dell啊，你简直被Zaps淹没了'。
By the way, people are like, oh, Dell, like, you're, like, swimming in the zaps.
你收到这么多打赏，巴拉巴拉...
You get so many zaps, blah blah blah.
我觉得，想要收到更多打赏，首要之事就是多发打赏。
Like, the number one thing I think to receiving more zaps is sending more zaps.
而我的净收入却大幅缩水。
And my net is I'm way down.
伙计们，我亏惨了。
I'm down bad guys.
这简直是我用过最贵的免费应用体验。
Like, this is the most expensive free app experience I've ever had.
我最近查了统计数据。
I think my I checked the stats most recently.
我大概亏了500万聪左右。
I'm, like, down, like, 5,000,000 sats or something.
相当于在Nostr上花了6000美元。
Like, it's $6,000 spent on Nostr.
但作为收到过大量小额打赏的人，当我在mpub.cash兑现时，感觉必须向妻子报备。
But as a receiver of many Zaps and many low value Zaps, when I try and redeem on mpub.cash, it's like I have to tell my wife.
就像说：好吧，
It's like, okay.
你看着孩子，
You watch the kids.
我要进那个房间扫描二维码，感觉要扫到天荒地老。
I'm gonna go into that room, and then I'm gonna scan, like, forever.
或者干脆复制粘贴。
I'm just like or copy and paste.
复制粘贴操作起来会快很多。
Copy and paste is a lot quicker when you do it.
所以可以一直复制粘贴，因为内容会分成越来越小的块。
So copy and paste forever because it comes in, like, smaller and smaller chunks.
为什么会这样？
Why does that happen?
我知道，但要给外行解释清楚原因，MpubX能解决这个问题吗？
I know but, like, explain to the freaks why this happens, and is there does MpubX solve this?
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
这是因为在第一版中，每当你收到付款时，服务器都会为你铸造一枚对应面额的腰果代币。
So it it happens because whenever so with the first version, whenever you receive a payment, the server will mint a cashew token for you and that has that denomination.
然后当你重...
And and when you re
所以如果我收到10套，就相当于得到一枚10套面值的腰果代币。
So if I receive, like, 10 sets and that's like, I'm getting a 10 set cashew token.
目前是这样？
At the moment?
你可以把它想象成有点像美元钞票。
You can think about it a little bit like like dollar bills.
对吧？
Right?
就像腰果一样，你可以构建的东西有固定的面额。
There's just like with cashew, there's like fixed denominations of stuff you can build.
所以如果你收到10个zaps和10个sats，那就会是一个8 sat票据和2 sat票据在代币里混合在一起。
So if you receive 10 zaps 10 sats, that will be a l 8 sat bill and a 2 sat bill mushed together in a token.
而这些单一面额正是存储在empoc.cache中的内容。
And these single denominations are what are being stored in empoc.cache.
所以如果你在快乐的Zapathon活动一周后回到empoc.cache想兑换所有东西，那将会是很多很多很多。
So if you, after a week of happy Zapathon, come back to empoc.cache and want to redeem all your stuff, it's going to be like a lot a lot a lot.
比如8或16或其他大小的SAT面额。
Like eight or like 16 or whatever sized SAT denominations.
这些都是数据。
And that's all data.
到某个时候它就塞不进二维码了。
And it doesn't fit in a QR code at some point.
或者说我们当时在担心，比如API响应大小之类的问题。
Or like and we were like, I was worrying about, like, even, like, API response sizes and stuff.
比如如果超过某个特定大小，那就...
Like, if there's, a certain size that, like, exceeds, it's it's gonna be
呃，为什么我们不能...我确定有技术限制，但为什么不能直接有个'全部兑换'按钮？
Well, like, why can't we have I'm sure there's a technical limitation, but, like, why can't I just have, like, a set redeem all button?
因为...我会让你...它每次只能兑换大约200个这样的单独构建。
Well, because it's like I I I would so you it it redeems, like, 200 of these, like, single builds at a time.
它就是这样的设计。
That's what it does.
因为是啊。
Because Yeah.
所以我就像是个超级边缘案例。
So I'm, like, a super edge case.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
确实如此。
You are.
这就是我的处境。
It's my situation.
我是说，像，有有几个几个和你同病相怜的人，我之前听过这种抱怨。
I mean, like, there's there's, like, there's a couple couple others in your boat that I I've I've heard this complaint before.
对吧？
Right?
这是其中之一
It's one of
像是，g g g可能在加州那边。
Like, g g g is probably in So there Maybe Cali.
第二个问题是第二版是否修复了这个问题，嗯，它确实有所改善。
The second question whether the second version fixes this, well, it makes it better.
在第二版中，我们从铸造代币改为使用我们现金中所谓的'解铸凭证'——本质上就是付款发票或支付证明，或者说，嗯对。
With the second version, we changed from minting tokens, so we're not limited by the proof denomination, to what we call in cash the de mint quote, which is basically the paid invoice or the proof of payment, basically, or like the yeah.
那么在铸造之前会发生什么？
So what happens before minting?
而且这不受面额限制。
And that's not restricted by the denominations.
举个例子，如果你有21聪，它不会变成你要兑换的三样东西。
So if you have 21 sats, for example, it's not going to be three things that you're redeeming.
它仍然会是单独的一个。
It's still going to be a single one.
金额大小无关紧要。
Doesn't matter what amount it is.
永远都只会是单独的一个。
It's always going to be a single one.
但它仍然是单独的一个。
But it's still a single one.
这意味着如果你有1000个zaps，你仍然需要处理1000样东西。
And that means if you have like 1,000 zaps, there's still 1,000 things you've got to deal with.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
协议层会对此进行修复，因为这是我们反复思考过的Cache问题。
There's going to be a protocol level fix to this because it's something in Cache that we thought about a lot.
如果人们想大量进行所谓的铸造操作，基本上每个HTTP请求你都可以通过mint指令完成一次铸造。
If people want to do a lot of what we called minting And so basically, you can always do one mint per HTTP request with a mint.
我们认为这种限制其实没有必要存在。
And we thought that's kind of a limitation that doesn't need to be there.
让我们创建一个叫BatchMint的功能吧。
Let's create something called BatchMint.
一旦我们有了批量铸造功能，npub。
And once we have BatchMint, npub.
缓存或类似npub的东西。
Cache or like npub.
X。
X.
缓存实际上会变成这样：无论你有多少东西、多少聪（sats）、收到多少不同的闪电打赏（zaps）都无所谓。
Cache is literally gonna change to like it doesn't matter how many stuff you how many sats, how many like different zaps you received.
你只需点击一个按钮。
You're gonna click one button.
它会进行一次调用，所有东西就都在那里了。
It's gonna make one call and it's all there.
这就是目标。
That's that's the goal.
一次调用就能生成一个代币吗？
One call and it's gonna make one token?
对。
Yeah.
所以，嗯，是的。
So bay well, yeah.
它，嗯，是的。
It it yeah.
它会生成一个代币。
It's gonna make one token.
这无关紧要，一个大代币而已。
It doesn't matter this One big token.
比如，如果我收到21个10或21个SAT SAPs，就会生成一个相当于20的代币。
Like, I receive, like, 10 if I receive twenty one ten twenty one SAT SAPs, it creates one token that's two ten.
嗯，关于n pop x的酷炫之处在于它提醒我npox的特性。
Well, the cool thing about n pop x Remind me The cool thing about npopx.
缓存机制将决定权完全交给客户端，因为服务器实际上并不选择主导方案。
Cache, it leaves this decision up to the client because the server doesn't actually, like, choose the domination.
它只是存储最小报价。
It just, like, stores the the min quote.
所以实现ntop的钱包。
So the wallet that implements ntop.
缓存实际上可以选择面额。
Cache can actually choose the denomination.
因此如果你的目标是拥有一个超大代币，完全可以实现。
So if your goal is to have one massive token, you can get that.
但如果你的钱包稍微智能些，可能希望通过优化本地证明存储来改善支付流程等功能，它甚至可以铸造最小单位并选择面额，从而优化自身的币种选择。
But if your wallet's a little bit smart and maybe wants to optimize its local proof storage for better payment flows and other stuff, it can even mint smallest things and choose denominations and optimize its own coin selection by that.
从这个意义上说，它的可调节性非常强。
So it's really, really adjustable in that sense.
它将100%的决定权交给客户端。
It leaves the decision 100% up to the client.
明白了。
Got it.
是啊。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以现在有个限制，你在输入点缓存里设置了200的限制。
So there's a limit there's a the the limitation that you're putting right now in input dot cache of 200.
抱歉。
Sorry.
这有点超出我的理解范围，所以我只能尽力现场发挥。
This is a little bit over my head, so I'm just trying my best live.
顺便说一句，这个限制很酷，伙计们。
The the limitation the cool by the way, freaks.
顺便说一句，如果你看到这里，大概已经看了22分钟了。
By the way, if you got to this point, you're, like, twenty two minutes in.
你可能会想，我到底在听些什么鬼东西？
You're like, what the fuck am I listening to?
你可以直接访问mpub.cash。
You can just go to mpub.cash.
如果你装了Nostril插件——我最喜欢的是nos2x，而且你在插件里存了私钥，只要点击钱包按钮，你的钱包就会显示出来，然后就能收到Zap打赏了。
If you have a Nostril extension, like, my favorite is no s two x, and you have your and you have your private key in that extension, you just press the wallet button, and your wallet will show up, and you will just be receiving Zaps in there.
超级简单。
It's super easy.
然后点击兑换按钮，你就能把SATs从钱包里提出来。
Then you press the redeem button, and you can you can pull the SATs out of the wallet.
超级、超级简单。
Super, super easy.
这就是酷的地方。
That's the cool part.
我们只是在这里深入探讨，所以听起来很复杂。
We're just diving deep here, and that's why it sounds really complicated.
但酷的是，如果你不懂技术，其实相当简单。
But the cool part is if you're not technical, it's actually quite simple.
做起来相当简单。
It's quite simple to do.
而且在任何闪电钱包中，你只需在npub.cash输入你的NPUB，就可以直接向该钱包发送统计数据。
And and also in any Lightning Wallet, you can just put your NPUB at npub.cash, and you can just send stats to that wallet.
超级简单，无需任何设置。
Super simply without any setup.
但兑换时有200个代币的限制，这是人为设置的，不是缓存协议的限制。
But there's this there's this 200 token limit when redeeming, and that's implemented, but that's not a cache you protocol limit.
是你自己设置的这个限制，因为二维码会太大而无法扫描。
That's a you you're putting that limit on because QR codes would be way too large to scan with the QR code.
是啊。
Yeah.
还有，通过线路传输的数据量问题。
Also, just the amount of data that goes through the wire.
即使你想复制字符串，字符串也放不进剪贴板。
And even if you, like, want to copy the string, the string wouldn't fit your clipboard.
我明白这就是我想表达的意思。
I was get that's where I was going with it.
是不是太大了，
Is it would be too big for
我的剪贴板？
my clipboard?
这取决于你的系统。
It depends on your on your system.
对吧？
Right?
我我最近就遇到这个问题，当时我试图在Signal上发送一个缓存令牌。
I I, like, recently had that issue where I was trying to, like, send a cache token on on signal.
它确实能放进剪贴板，但Signal却说这条消息太长了。
And it fit my clipboard, but signal was like, this message is too long.
我不会发送这个的。
I'm not gonna send that out.
好吧。
Okay.
对Signal来说太大了。
Too big for signal.
是啊。
Yeah.
那好吧。
So Okay.
对于所有听众来说，就像我，嗯，npop。
And for everyone listening, like, I I'm like, npop.
缓存显然就像主页，你可以在那里了解到很多信息。
Cache is obviously like the home page where you can learn a lot about the stuff.
但我觉得它的可用性，比如在cashew.me上作为缓存钱包使用。
But I feel like the the usability of using it, for example, in cashew.me as like a cache wallet.
因为cache.me给人的感觉有点像闪电钱包。
Because cache.me kind of feels like Lightning Wallet.
那你就不需要手动赎回了。
Well then you don't have to manually redeem.
不需要。
No.
你什么都不用做。
You don't need to do anything.
你只需打开cache.me，用Nostril扩展登录，里面就会有一个闪电地址。
You just open a cache.me, you log in with your Nostril extension, and you have a Lightning address in there.
每当你打开网站时，它会自动为你赎回内容。
And whenever you open the website, it will redeem the stuff automatically for you.
所以我认为这是目前npop的最佳用户体验。
So that's like the best UX there is right now, I think, for npop.
已缓存。
Cached.
你想不想直接深入
Do you wanna just, like, dive
在吗？
in?
但如果我说错了请纠正。
But correct me if I'm wrong.
我曾经做过那件事。
I did that at one point.
所以，cashew.me 如果直接为你生成新的NPUB和SEC会更好用。
So, like, cashew.me works better if it just generates a fresh NPUB N SEC for you.
对吧？
Right?
我用的是自己的那个。
I use it with my personal one.
用来干嘛？
For?
我用的是溃疡扩展版。
I use it with an ulcer extension.
好的。
Okay.
唉，我之前一下子损失了10万聪
Well, I, like, I lost a 100,000 sats at one point
好吧。
Okay.
就是那个兑换功能搞的。
From, like, the redeem thing.
我找到了。
I found it.
我不得不重新扫描。
I had to do rescan.
它就在设置之类的地方。
It's, like, in settings and stuff.
然后我深吸了一口气。
And I took a deep breath.
我猜它就在某个地方。
I figured it was there somewhere.
但有点像是，我觉得这两个界面有时会互相混淆。
But there's a little like, I think the two interfaces get confused with each other sometimes.
因为npub点缓存没办法知道某个东西是否已被兑换，对吧？
Because there's no way for npub dot cache to know, right, if something's been redeemed or not.
是这样吗？
Is that true?
对，是这样的。
So, yeah, that's true.
基本上，npub点缓存的做法是，一旦你请求过一次令牌，它就会将其标记为已兑换。
So basically, what npub dot cache does, as soon as you request the token once, it will mark that as redeemed basically.
在empo上。
On empo.
缓存正确。
Cached Right.
没错。
That's right.
是的。
Yeah.
empo上有历史记录。
There's the history on empo.
缓存基本上会显示所有提现记录。
Cached basically that shows you all the withdrawals.
你可以在empo上操作。
You can on empo.
通过缓存，你可以回溯并重新显示、重新调出你做过的每一笔提现。
Cached, you can go back and like redisplay, re surface every single withdrawal that you did.
所以从技术上讲，不应该有任何记录丢失。
So technically, there should never be something lost.
但我的缓存没这个功能。
But cache of me doesn't do that.
对。
Yeah.
只是没在用户界面显示出来。
It just wasn't shown in the UI.
并没有丢失
It wasn't lost
严格来说。
per se.
这也是npub x的一个重大变化。
That's also one big change of npub x.
缓存。
Cache.
因为npub x。
Because npub x.
缓存会持续提供你已兑换过的所有内容。
Cache will always it will just keep giving you whatever you already redeemed.
然后你基本上可以在API上设置，比如只给我从这个时间点之后兑换的内容。
And then you can basically on the API, you can tell it, only give me stuff that has been redeemed since this time, for example.
这样我们就只给你新内容。
And then we'll only give you the new stuff.
但ntopax.cache上基本不会有任何内容被删除。
But there's never anything deleted basically on ntopax.cache.
明白了。
So Got it.
更好的状态管理。
Better state management.
我想我以后应该做的就是配合cashew.me使用它。
I guess I that's probably what I should do going forward is just use it with cashew.me.
我建议你...抱歉。
And I encourage you to the Sorry.
我建议你使用n top x，即使它标记为实验性。
I encourage you to use the n top x even if it's marked experimental.
我们已经使用它相当长一段时间了，它非常稳定。
We've been using it for quite a while now, and it is pretty stable.
还有腰果里的这个设置。
And This setting within cashew.
对。
Yeah.
如果你收到很多很多SAP，虽然仍需一些时间，但至少能自动处理。
And if you receive like a lot and lot and lot of SAPs, it will still take some time, but at least it will be automatic.
你不再需要手动扫描任何东西了。
You don't have to like scan anything anymore.
你只需打开页面保持开启，系统就会自动兑换。
You just open the page, leave it open, and we'll redeem it.
因为达到某个点时，铸造速率会受限。
Because at some point, the mint rate limits you.
对吧？
Right?
所以在铸造方拒绝前，你只能进行有限次数的请求。
So you can only talk to the mint for so many requests before he says, nuh-uh.
所以需要些时间，但我们会解决这个问题。
So it will just take a while, but we'll fix that.
我保证。
I promise.
我超爱这个功能。
I love it.
我喜欢。
I love it.
仙人掌杰克，闪电支付21,000聪。
Cactus Jacks, zap 21,000 sats.
他说要自由生活，但在zap.stream的直播聊天里没显示，可能就像我说的Relay问题，但我们会解决的，怪人们。
He says live free, but it's not showing on the live chat on zap.stream because probably Relay is like I said, but we will figure it out, freaks.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
That's awesome.
是啊。
Yeah.
对于怪人们来说，你们可能对cashew.me很熟悉，因为我们详细讨论过它。
To the freaks, you might be familiar with cashew.me because we've talked about it much at length.
Kali是维护者，这超级酷因为它是个PWA应用。
Kali is the maintainer of that, and it's super cool because it's a PWA.
所以不需要应用商店权限。
So no app store permissions.
你们不需要，Kali也不需要等待应用商店审核更新或允许上架之类的。
You don't have to you don't have to Kali doesn't have to, like, wait for the app stores to take updates or allow him in the store or whatnot.
你直接在浏览器里访问cashew.me就行。
You literally just go to cashew.me in your browser.
记下你的助记词，以防手机丢失或浏览器数据被清空等情况。
Write down your seed phrase, just in case you lose your phone or your browser gets wiped or whatever.
然后你有一个功能完备的闪电钱包，由Cashew驱动。
And then you have a fully functioning, lightning wallet powered by Cashew.
正如我们刚才讨论的，Cashew在mpub.cash上提供闪电地址，这样你就能接收Zaps打款。
And as as we just discussed, Cashew at mpub.cash for a lightning address so you can receive on you can receive Zaps.
太棒了。
Awesome.
你参与cashyou.me项目的程度有多深？
How how involved are you with the cashyou.me project?
你经常为那个项目做贡献吗？
Are you do you contribute to that often?
呃，没有。
Or No.
我开发了终端弹出的现金集成功能，是一个新模块。
I I built the end popped up cash integration, a new one.
我在里面修复了几个bug。
I fixed a couple bugs in there.
我并不是重度用户，但发现问题时会及时告知大家。
It's not I'm a heavy user, and I will let people know when I find something.
我参与得不太多。
I'm not too involved.
应该说，我更专注于整个缓存生态系统。
I'm more involved with the general cache ecosystem, I would say.
所以我几乎全职在做缓存相关的工作
So I'm working pretty much full time on cache stuff
现在。
now.
什么是
What are
你在缓存方面正在做什么工作？
you working on on the cache side?
我很好，这是一个社区驱动的项目，但我是Cache ATS的核心维护者之一，它是Cache的TypeScript客户端实现，基本上支撑了我们今天看到的大多数缓存应用。
So I am well, it's a community driven project, but I'm like one of the core maintainers of cache ATS, which is the TypeScript implementation client set implementation of Cache, basically, that powers most of the cache apps that we see today.
所以cache.me是由Cache ATS驱动的。
So cache.me is powered by cache ATS.
Minibits是由CacheTS驱动的。
Minibits is powered by CacheTS.
几乎大多数移动钱包都是由CacheTS驱动的。
Pretty much most of the mobile wallets are powered by CacheTS.
因此我在那里进行维护工作，并努力让该项目与不断演进的协议保持同步。
So I do maintenance there and try to keep that project up to date with the protocol, which is ever evolving.
我也尝试做一些协议相关的工作，尽我所能做出贡献。
I try to do some protocol work as well, try to contribute wherever I can.
最近我开始复活一个深受社区喜爱的Cashew应用。
And recently I started reviving a Cashew app that was super loved by the community.
它叫Inuts。
It's called Inuts.
不知道你以前是否尝试过。
I don't know if you've tried it before.
这是个相当老旧的版本。
It's a pretty old one.
它曾是首批外观精美的Cashew应用之一。
Was one of the first major nicely looking Cashew apps that were there.
后来维护者转向其他项目就放弃了它。
And at some point, the maintainer moved on to different stuff and left the project.
而且Cashew此后经历了重大协议变更，导致完全不兼容。
And Cashew had a major protocol change since then, so it's not really compatible.
官方还曾明确反对继续使用它。
And the use was actively discouraged.
现在我们决定要让它重获新生。
And now we decided to revive it, basically.
所以最近几周我一直在开发enets。
And so I've been working on enets for the last couple of weeks.
我正在努力让它跟上时代。
I'm trying to get it up to speed.
没错，我正在构建大量工具——缓存工具和开发者工具，让缓存开发更轻松。
But yeah, so I'm building a lot of tools, cacher tools, and tooling for other developers to make cache development easier.
然后我会亲自试用这些工具。
And I then try to use it myself.
比如我现在正在开发CocoCache。
So for example, I'm working on CocoCache now.
CocoCache就像内置电池的TypeScript缓存框架。
CocoCache is like the batteries include a TypeScript framework for cache.
你什么都不需要做。
You don't need to do anything.
它会为你完成一切。
It just does everything for you.
你只需要一个非常简单的API。
You have a very simple API.
而且你完全不需要担心缓存收据短语的实际工作原理、如何确保恢复功能正常运作，或是跟踪那些派生过程之类的事情？
And you don't need to worry about how does the cache receipt phrase actually work, how does it make sure restoration works, and keeping track of the derivation of the stuff like that?
所以我构建了这个系统。
So I built that.
它能处理所有
It does all the
困难能处理所有
hard does all the
困难的部分。
hard stuff.
它负责数据库管理等所有工作。
It does database management and everything.
你只需告诉它你想使用哪种数据库。
You just let it know what kind of database you want to use.
你需要为它提供一个接口，然后它就能自动运行。
You need an interface for it, and then it just goes.
这个项目我目前只开发了两周半，所以还处于非常早期的阶段。
I've been working on that only for like two and a half weeks now, so it's very, very early.
目前还处于alpha测试阶段。
It's in alpha state right now.
但我基本上是用它来推动eNets的开发。
But I'm using it to drive the eNets development basically.
因为eNets实在太旧了，反正我都需要重写所有缓存逻辑。
Because eNets was so old that I needed to rewrite all the cache logic anyways.
我当时就想，好吧。
I was like, okay.
既然要重写所有缓存逻辑，我不如把它抽象成一个包供其他人使用。
If I need to rewrite all the cache logic, I will, like, abstract it out into a package for other people to use.
所以现在有了然后你
So now there's And then you
可以直接在eNuts中使用CocoCacheu。
can just use CocoCacheu with an eNuts.
那很好。
That's good.
是的。
Yeah.
这样你就一箭双雕了。
So so you kill two birds at once.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
在cashew.me出现之前，我用的是ENuts。
ENuts is what I used before cashew.me existed.
说实话，我指的是cashew，我已经不怎么在Cashew生态里做实验了，因为cashew.me很棒而且随处可用。
I mean, cashew I'd like honestly, I stopped really experimenting that much in the Cashew ecosystem because cashew.me is great and just, like, works everywhere.
而且它非常前沿。
And it's also very cutting edge.
我想这正在造福这个诅咒。
Which is, I guess, benefiting the curse.
是啊。
Yeah.
这太酷了。
That's very cool.
因为
Because
你总是这样。
you always yeah.
还有些是因为那些更新。
There's some because the updates too.
对啊。
Yeah.
更新也是。
Updates too.
有很多很多新东西。
There's like a lot of like a lot of new stuff.
这有点像是一个测试轮次。
It's it's kinda like a testing round a little bit as well.
他总是把这些功能标记为实验性的，所以你不需要主动去选择那些比较前沿的功能。
There's the he always puts these things as experimental, so you don't like you actively have to opt in into stuff that's a little bit more like bleeding edge.
但你可以使用它，而且这真的很酷。
But you can do and it's really cool for that.
缓存速度非常快。
And cache is so fast.
新功能增加的速度简直快得离谱。
The pace is just insane at which new feature is getting added.
而且变得越来越非常非常有趣。
And it's getting very, very interesting.
就在最近，Bolt 12被合并了。
Just recently, Bolt twelve was merged.
我们正在努力让Bolt 12与mints和钱包兼容。
So we're working on getting Bolt twelve working with mints and wallets.
这显然会开启许多超级酷的用例。
And that's like, obviously, like opening up so super cool use cases as well.
是啊。
Yeah.
我的意思是，另一方面，我认为它只支持iOS。
I mean, on the opposite side, I think it's iOS only.
但我真的很喜欢macadamia，因为它与实验性高级用户工具截然不同。
But I really like macadamia because it's it's the opposite of, like, experimental power user.
就是，超级简洁明了，对吧。
It's just, like, super clean, straightforward Yeah.
夏威夷果很酷。
Macadamia is cool.
用来发送接收的接口。
Interface to send, receive.
夏威夷果用缓存UTS吗？
Does Macadamia use cache UTS?
不。
No.
不。
No.
夏威夷果是用Swift开发的。
Macadamia is is Swift.
全都是原生组件。
All is, like, native stuff.
没有脏JavaScript在跑，纯Swift写的——但这是个超棒的项目。
There's no there's no dirty JavaScript running, and that's, like, the clean Swift But it's an awesome project.
我只是我
I just I
刚打开夏威夷果，没想到里面有90万条统计数据。
just opened Macadamia, and I didn't realize I had 900,000 stats in there.
幸好我们有这个功能，它就像沙发缝里的宝藏。
So I'm glad we had it's very much a couch cushion thing.
这么多钱包在一些钱包上进行测试。
So many wallets testing on some wallets.
我没事。
I okay.
我是说，我看到一个来自草坪舌头齿轮的用户问题。
I mean, I see a user question from lawn tongue gear.
为什么你的地址在npub.cash/wallet上没有二维码？
Why don't you have a QR code on npub.cash/wallet for your address?
比如一个闪电网络二维码，
Like a lightning QR code,
我猜。
I assume.
这是你通常会期待的东西吗？
Something you would typically expect?
比如，我我好像从没见过闪电地址二维码。
Like, I I don't think I've ever seen lightning address QR.
我是说，嗯，对。
I mean, like, oh, yeah.
好吧，lnurl确实有个...对。
Well, lnurl kinda has a yeah.
这很合理。
It would make sense.
但我认为最初使用闪电地址的原因在于它某种程度上是人类可读的。
But I think the the the the goal like, the reason why we use lightning address in the first place is that it's, like, kinda human readable.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，除非你付钱——我是说，如果你在mpub.cash上支付odel之类的，那就算。
Well, it's not unless you pay I mean, if you pay for, like, odel at mpub.cash, it is.
但是，如果是在mpub.1qny10a上，其实就不算。
But, like, it's not really if it's mpub.1qny10a.
对。
Yeah.
确实如此。
That's true.
随便吧。
Whatever.
我不...我没有...我想我大概把m pub放那儿了，但我的mpub还没完全搞定...是的。
I don't I don't have my I I think I kinda got my m pub right there, but I don't have my mpub completely Yeah.
这...这对mpub.cache来说没意义，因为它已经不太适合人类阅读了。
It it wouldn't it wouldn't make sense for mpub.cache specifically because the it's not really human readable anymore.
嗯。
Yeah.
确实。
That's true.
对。
Yeah.
我...我们应该...我们应该要有那个。
I I should I should we should have that.
但我认为，像npub x.cache这样的设计，初衷是引导人们更多地通过应用内嵌的方式来使用它。
But I think with, like, npub x dot cache, the idea is generally to drive people more towards using it inside something, like an app.
对。
Right.
你用的是enuts、macadamia、cache.me还是npub.cache，界面看起来
You're using enuts or macadamia or cache dot me and npub dot cache, the interface is kind
就像是专门用来快速兑换的。
of just like to go there to redeem real quick.
是啊。
Yeah.
某种程度上也是因为它发展得太快了。
It it kinda it kinda was also due to the fact that it grew so quickly.
前端界面原本就没打算真的投入使用。
Like, the front end was never supposed to be actually used.
更像是'嘿，我想演示一下这个'。
It was more of a, hey, I wanna demo this.
'你想不想快速试玩一下'。
You wanna, like, try it out real quick.
本来计划是最终会转移到应用里。
At some point, like, this is gonna move into apps.
但现在只提供了最基础的版本，
Like, but here's the bare bones version,
结果人们就直接开始用了。
like and then people just, like, started using.
这就是你得到的教训，所以MPUB X没有
And this you learned your lesson, and that's why MPUB X doesn't have a
是啊。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我不想要它的原因是因为它在处理所有状态事务时表现更好，即使会丢失SATs。
I mean, like, with So the reason why I didn't want it is because it just works way better with all the state stuff, losing SATs.
显然，我不希望人们丢失SATs。
I don't want people to lose SATs, obviously.
简单来说，如果它在一个实际现金钱包或具备高级钱包功能的环境中运行，效果会好得多。
It just works way better if it's in an environment that is an actual cash wallet or has sophisticated wallet capabilities, basically.
所以这就是为什么我说，好吧，n。
And so that's why I said, okay, n.
X。
X.
Cash不会有一个前端界面。
Cash is not going to have a front end.
但现在有了Coco，我几乎可以把现金钱包放到任何地方。
But now with Coco, I'm pretty much putting cash wallets anywhere.
所以将来某个时候会有一个前端。
So there will be a front end at some point.
我不是在承诺，但我认为这实际上是Coco的目标——如果它按我预期发展的话，基本上每个网页开发者都能无忧无虑地在任何地方部署缓存钱包。
I'm not promising, but I think it actually is like the goal of Coco, if it turns out how I expect it to turn out, it's basically every web developer will be able to put cache wallets everywhere without having to worry about anything.
我是说，这就是梦想啊。
I mean, that's the dream.
对吧？
Right?
这就是它超级强大的地方。
And that's where it's super powerful that.
所以我的意思是，我
So I mean so, I
我的愿景是——如果听起来太疯狂请告诉我——通过氛围编程，就像拥有Nostrilogin和Nostrilcoms这样的Nostril身份系统与通讯工具，再加上Cashew。
mean, my vision is and tell me if I'm absolutely crazy, but with vibe coding is like, well, you have Nostrilogin and Nostrilcoms, like Nostril Identity and Nostrilcoms, and then you have Cashew.
然后你几乎可以零成本地实现支付、社交、通讯以及任何你想要的氛围编程应用。
And then you can pretty much do payments, social, comms, and, like, any vibe coded app you want with very little overhead.
这就是梦想所在。
It's that's the dream.
对吧？
Right?
简直可以说——
Just like it could literally
这又回到了我最初说的公共基础设施问题。
be comes back to the thing that I said in the beginning with public infrastructure.
因为Nostr和Cashew都提供了这些可免费使用的公共基础设施——铸币厂和中继站。
Because Nostr and Cashew both offer these public infrastructure stuff that you can just use, that are free to use, the mints and the relays.
现在你可以构建任何支持支付的网站。
You can build any website that does payments now.
它直接利用铸币厂的基础设施来处理闪电网络交易。
And it just uses the mints infrastructure to do the lightning stuff.
对吧？
Right?
其实，是对的。
Actually, was Right.
你不需要Stripe的API。
You don't need a Stripe API.
你不需要Twitter的API。
You don't need a Twitter API.
你只需要优化就行。
You can just optimize.
没错。
Exactly.
而且实际上我最近在里加的BTC++会议上就这个话题做了个研讨会。
And and that was actually I did a workshop in in Riga at the BTC plus plus about this recently.
我喜欢在Vibes内外都这样。
I like within and even without Vibes.
对吧？
Right?
比如半小时内，你就能搭好一个网站，上面放个打赏按钮。
Like, half an hour, you just spin up a website and you have a tip button there.
然后它会给你显示一张发票。
And it shows you a invoice.
你付完发票就完事了。
And you pay the invoice.
然后它通过操作系统发送Sats。
And then it sends the Sats over an OS.
显然，这是通过从公共缓存获取发票，并向用户展示发票来实现的。
So it does that, obviously, by getting an invoice from a public cachement, showing the invoice to the user.
一旦支付完成，它就会创建一个cashu代币，并通过私信发送给你，让你也能打开使用。
And as soon as it's paid, it's gonna, like, create a cashu token and send that as a DM to you to, you know, open also.
就这么简单。
And just works.
你什么都不需要准备。
Like, you don't need anything.
现在你突然就能接收打赏了，甚至不需要拥有自己的东西。
And now suddenly you'll be able to, like, receive tips anyway without actually having your own stuff.
这太棒了。
That's awesome.
你对...我不太确定的事情有什么看法？
What is your opinion on I don't know.
Nips提案太多了。
There's too many nips.
但巴勃罗正在推动的那个提案，里面代币是存在Noster里的。
But the the one that Pablo's pushing that has the the tokens are in Noster.
代币存储在中继站里。
The tokens are in the relay.
你明白我在说什么吗？
Do you know what I'm talking about?
是啊。
Yeah.
不，扎克。
No, Zach.
你对此有什么看法？
What's your opinion on that?
那么，我们对此的立场是什么？
And, like, where do we stand on that?
因为我觉得人们对此非常兴奋。
Because I feel like people are very excited about it.
我还没真正见过它在实践中运作良好。
I haven't really seen it work well in practice yet.
我认为这个想法非常非常酷，因为它消除了从基础设施角度来看可能最困难的部分——你需要存储数据库，因为作为优质资产，你需要把它存在某个地方。
I think, like, the the idea is very, very cool because it removes the last thing that might be difficult from a infrastructure standpoint, which is the database you need, like, to store your because it's a better asset, you need to store it somewhere.
就像你说的，你因为担心隐私而清空浏览器数据。
And as you said, you wipe your browser because you're concerned about your privacy.
比如你清空了浏览器存储。
For example, you wipe your browser storage.
哎呀，所有数据都没了。
Oops, all the stats are gone.
所以它解决了这个问题。
So it solves that issue.
但Nostr有个问题。
But Nostr has an issue.
基本上，它天生就带有状态。
Basically, it's naturally with state.
它没有状态。
It's There is no state.
不存在真相来源。
There's no source of truth.
不存在单一的真相状态。
There is no single truth state.
这使得将其用作货币数据库有点困难。
And that makes it using makes using it as a money database a little bit difficult.
因为如果你在奥地利上线，就像你的部分笔记消失了一样，那很糟糕。
Because if you go on Austrian, like some of your notes are gone, that sucks.
对吧？
Right?
如果你在奥地利上线，比如你钱包里50%的钱不见了，因为存储那部分的中继节点现在不在线什么的，那就更成问题了。
If you go No English But if you go on Austrian, like, 50% of your wallet is gone because the relay where you stored that part is now not online or something, that's more of an issue.
我的意思是，显然可以通过使用备份、改善传播和优化中继列表来解决这个问题。
I mean, obviously, there's ways around that with using backups and having better propagation and optimizing your relay list.
现在有很多进展，比如本地中继和紫水晶协议能同时连接400个中继节点。
And there's so much stuff happening right now with local relays and amethysts talking to 400 relays at the same time now.
所以有很多方法可以改善这种情况。
And so there's a lot of stuff that might make this better.
但我认为Nutsac理念在这方面有点问题。
But I think that is a little problematic about the Nutsac idea.
但这是可以解决的。
But it would be solvable.
我只是不太明白随身携带数据库有什么大问题。
I just don't see the huge issue of, like, carrying a database around with you, basically.
但同步功能确实很酷。
But for syncing, it's cool.
我对此有点半信半疑。
I'm a little, like, fifty fifty on it.
你总是反复无常
You go back and forth on
。
it.
我
I
看得出来。
can tell.
嗯，我觉得关键在于——让它酷的原因不一定是存储数据库。
Well, I mean, I think the dream is I think the reason that makes it cool isn't necessarily storing a database.
对吧？
Right?
关键是你可以用用户体验优先的方式实现，新用户会获得更好的体验因为他们只需要NSEC。
It's just you could do it in a way that was UX forward, you'd have way better UX for new users because they literally would just need their NSEC.
他们只需要NSEC，钱就是钱，其他所有事情都可以由中继网络处理。
All they would need is their NSEC, and the money would be the money and everything else would just be handled by the relay network.
是啊。
Yeah.
所以你可以想象这样一种场景：他们无需KYC验证，就能立即收到Zaps。
So you can imagine a situation where they start up, like, no KYC, receives Zaps immediately.
也许，你知道，如果他们只是个基础用户、普通用户，NSEC就直接存在他们的iOS钥匙串里。
Maybe, you know, if they're, like, a very basic user, the average user, like, the NSEC is just stored in their iOS key chain.
懂吧？
You know?
他们甚至都没有备份NSEC。
Like, they're not even, like, backing up the NSEC.
苹果公司帮他们处理了这些。
Like, Apple's handling that for them.
他们就这样以相对自主的方式获得了完整体验。
And they just have, like, the full experience in a relatively sovereign way.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这就是终极理想国。
I think that is, like, the holy grail Valhalla.
我们做到了。
We've done it.
没错。
Yeah.
我是说，比如用电脑在ZapStream上直播时收到打赏，然后换台设备登录Plevian Market之类的平台，还能用同样的聪买东西。
And I mean, like, also, like like, doing a livestream from your from your computer, for example, on ZapStream, getting zapped there, and then, like, going on a different device, logging into, like, Plevian Market or something and spending the sat the same sats there to, like, buy something.
那也很漂亮
That's also pretty
毫不费力
With no effort.
毫不费力
With no effort.
对吧？
Right?
就像登录一样简单
Just like logging in.
所以我绝对看到了应用场景
And so I definitely see the use cases.
那会非常酷
And that be super cool.
但也有局限性
But there's limitations.
现在还非常早期
It's still very early.
基本上还有其他解决同步问题的方法
And there's other ways of solving the sync issue basically.
但并不是说...比如有个叫AGI Cache的项目
But it's not like so for example, there's this project, I think AGI Cache.
他们现在应该还处于早期alpha阶段
They're very early in alpha right now, I think.
他们基本上在服务器端缓存钱包。
They do server side cache wallets, basically.
而且他们通过安全飞地技术来实现这一点，非常安全。
And they do that very securely using an enclave, basically.
所以他们无法卷款跑路或做其他手脚。
So they cannot rug you and other stuff.
所以这个系统非常非常精密。
So it's very, very sophisticated.
他们做得相当出色。
They're pretty cool.
而且是在服务器端实现的。
And they do it server side.
因此当你通过不同设备登录时，尽管是无记名资产，你的余额仍然全部存在。
So whenever you log in through a different device, you still have all your balance there, even though it is a bearer asset.
但现在资产不是存在你的设备上，而是安全地存在他们的服务器上。
But now it's not on your device, it's on their server, but in a secure way.
而Nossa的身份验证功能就像锦上添花，加上NutsX的特性让整个系统酷炫无比。
But the Nossa identity stuff is like the cherry on top with the NutsX thing that just makes it super cool.
如果你能随身携带绑定身份的钱包。
If you can carry around your wallet with your identity.
如果我们能解决跨州同步的问题，我觉得那就太完美了。
If we can solve that issue with the sync interstate, I think that would be super, super awesome.
是啊。
Yeah.
这对我来说很有道理。
That makes sense to me.
我已经存了多达Zap 21000套。
I saved far as Zap 21,000 sets.
既然Primal增加了直播功能，我真的会看你的直播。
Now that Primal added streaming, I'll actually watch you live.
感谢这些年分享的所有知识。
Thanks for all the knowledge over the years.
干杯。
Cheers.
我不。
I no.
我相当...我相当期待鼻孔直播。
I'm pretty I'm pretty pumped about nostril streaming.
我觉得这将会超级火爆。
I think it's gonna be fucking huge.
我没事。
I okay.
下一个问题要问你。
Next question for you.
下一个要问你的问题是，我最担心的一个问题是——我是个坚定的腰果粉。
Next question for me for you is I one of my biggest concern so I'm a huge cashew bull.
我觉得这是比特币过去十年里最令人兴奋的衍生领域之一。
Like, I I think it's one of the most exciting tangential aspects of Bitcoin that has happened in the last decade.
对我来说，就是，看看然后感觉就像，好吧。
Like, to me, like, look and it's like it's like, okay.
你知道，我不是世界上最年长的人，但就像，我在哪里见过那种自然形成的开发者社区呢？
You know, I'm not the oldest person in the world, but, like, where have I seen, like, organic viral developer communities?
它基本上就像比特币、Noster、Cashew这些。
And it's basically like Bitcoin, Noster, Cashew.
而Cashew实际上非常有趣，因为最初是Fetamin项目被推出来，那个开源的Fetamin项目。
And Cashew is actually super fascinating because was Fetamin was kinda getting pushed first, the Fetamin open source project.
然后有一家获得大量风投的公司从Fetty出来，在Fetamin项目基础上进行开发。
And then there was like a super well funded VC business out of Fetty that was building on top of the Fetamin project.
与此同时，Kali和Cashew的开发者们突然出现，就像在说'看我的'。
And then at the same time, like, Kali and various Cashew devs, I came out of nowhere and were like, hold my beer.
你实际上能看到这两个项目的鲜明对比。
And you actually see the the dichotomy of the two projects.
对吧？
Right?
就像，它们之间有相似之处，都使用了Charming eCash和比特币。
Like, there there's similarities between them, and that they both use Charming eCash and Bitcoin.
但当你观察实际的开发者社区以及正在进行的迭代改进时，Cashew完全是另一个层次。
But then when you look at like the actual developer community and and iteration and improvement that's being made, like cash is on like a whole different level.
不过说回来，这其实是个很绕弯的提问方式。
But anyway, this is really a long range way of asking this question.
在这两种情况下，当我考虑长期采用时，我认为最大的限制因素之一就是缺乏一个繁荣的竞争性铸币市场。
In both situations, when I think about long term adoption, I think one of the biggest limiters is like a thriving competing mint marketplace.
那么，谁来修路呢？
Like, who will build the roads?
谁来运营铸币厂？
Who will run the mints?
所以当我思考这个问题时，总的来说，我认为我们需要让运营铸币厂变得更简单，并且要以隐私优先的方式运营。
And so then when I think of that, generally speaking, my belief is that we need to make it easier to run mints and run them in a privacy forward way.
你知道，比如说，不要像在家里运营那样，把自己的IP地址暴露给所有人。
You know, not for instance, like run if you were like running it out of your home, you're like, doxing your IP address to everyone.
也许你生活在某个地方，那样做会让政府不高兴之类的。
Maybe you live in a place where that would not make governments happy or something like that.
所以从宏观层面来说，我认为运营一个安全的铸币厂越容易越好。
So just high level speaking, like, think the easier it is to run a secure mint, the better.
这样我们就会有成千上万不同的铸币厂供人们选择，而不是像比特币那样由五六个主要机构掌控。
So that we'll have thousands of different mints that people can choose from rather than five or six that are holding the majority of as of Bitcoin.
我和Callie就这个问题进行过多次长谈。
Me and Callie like, I've had long conversations with Callie about this.
所以我有点好奇你对这个问题的看法。
So I'm kinda curious on your opinion on on that.
是关于谁来运营铸币厂，还是说我们应该让它们变得更安全？
On who will run the mins or, like, whether we should make them more secure?
具体是什么问题？
Like, what is it what's the question?
不是。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
不。
No.
南加州可以。
So Cal okay.
那我就直接手把手教吧，因为这个问题确实有点让人困惑。
So I'll just I'll spoon feed it because I it actually is kinda confusing my question.
Kalle担心让运行铸币厂变得太容易，我认为他在这点上是对的——你确实需要运营铸币厂的人具备一定的技术能力，这样出问题时他们能自行排查，而不是束手无策。
Kalle is concerned about making it too easy to run mints because and I think he's right on this front, is that, like, you do want someone who's running the mint to be relatively technical so that if something happens, they can troubleshoot it instead of like okay.
我用Fetamin再举个例子。
So I'll use Fetamin as another example.
大约六七个月前有两个大型公开Fetamin项目，结果基本上都自爆了。
There were two large public Fetamin's that existed about six months ago, seven months ago that basically rugged themselves.
用户损失了资金，但Federmen运营商也亏了钱，因为他们遇到致命错误却无法解决。
Like, the users lost money, but also the Federmen operators lost money because they they had critical errors and they just couldn't they just couldn't solve those errors.
对吧？
Right?
最终结果是人们损失了钱，但这不像传统跑路骗局那样是运营商卷款潜逃。
And so they ended up in a situation where people lost money, but it wasn't like a like a traditional exit scam where, like, the operators stole the money.
实际上运营商比大多数用户亏得更多。
Like, actually, the operators lost more money than most of the users.
简而言之，这就是Kali的担忧。
And so that's Kali's concern in a nutshell.
就是说，我不想过多地替他发言。
Like, I don't wanna, like, speak for him too much.
但他的顾虑在于，如果我们实现它——就像我的梦想那样，我在这里起步，在我的小镇上有一个100人的社区。
But his concern is that if we make it if we make it so so like my dream is that I got my start nine here and I have a community of a 100 people in my town.
我只想在我的起步阶段运营一个铸币厂，按下启动键。
And I just wanna run a mint on my start nine, press go.
他们只需扫描一个洋葱发票地址之类的，或者可能是Noster原生的东西。
They just scan an onion invoice onion address or something, or maybe it's a Noster native thing.
然后他们连接到我的铸币厂，我就成了他们的社区铸币运营商。
And then they just connect to my mint, and then I'm their community mint operator.
但我觉得Callie认为我们离那个愿景还很遥远。
But I think Callie thinks we're very far off from that vision.
你怎么看？
What are your thoughts?
我...我不...我认为区分我运营一个面向全球数千人的铸币厂和为我本地社区运营一个铸币厂非常重要。
I I don't I don't so I think it is very important to differentiate between me running a mint for, like, thousands of people, in the whole world and me running a mint for my local community.
是的。
Yeah.
显然第一种情况存在更大的风险。
I think there's far greater risks for the first case, obviously, in there.
你必须清楚自己在做什么。
You should know exactly what you're doing.
你需要了解这些东西的运作原理，以及如何复制你的数据库等等。
You need to know how this stuff works and how to replicate your database and stuff like that.
考虑到本地社区，情况会稍微简单些，毕竟这总是取决于你与使用者的信任程度，对吧？
Think for local community, it's a little bit easier depending on it always depends on your trust level with the people that use it, right?
我想可能是我太乐观了。
I think so maybe I'm too optimistic.
但如果你能像吉姆叔叔那样对待朋友和社区，大家彼此熟悉信任，就可以稍微偏离协议操作，这样遇到灾难时总能恢复过来，对吧？
But if you're like your Uncle Jim for your friends and your local community, and everyone kind of knows and trusts each other, and you can keep things a little bit off protocol, you could probably always recover from a disaster, right?
比如说，你仍然拥有自己的闪电网络节点。
Because you still have your lighting node, for example.
当然也存在像FADI这样的情况，由于不可预见的漏洞或问题导致SATs真实损失。
And I mean, obviously there can be cases where with like FADI where like SATs are like real because there's an unforeseen bug or issue and you don't you actually lose SATs.
不过可能...呃，Fedy那个...
But then like the the thing that is probably Well, Fedy's
嗯。
yeah.
继续说吧。
Go on.
抱歉。
Sorry.
请继续。
Continue.
我道歉。
I apologize.
我只是想说，就我目前看来，Mint运营商面临的最大风险可能是数据库丢失，因为那样一来，基本上你就无从得知
I I just wanted to say, like, from my point of view right now, probably the biggest risk for Mint operator is losing its database because then, basically, you don't know
谁掌控着市场。
who owns the market.
数据归谁所有。
Stats are whose.
是啊。
Yeah.
运河。
Canal.
所以这是不同的...我用Fedement举例，但Fedement不同在于它实际上是基于比特币链上数据的。
So So it's a different it's a different so I used Fedement as an example, but Fedement's different because Fedement is actually based on on chain Bitcoin.
对。
Yeah.
而在Cashew里，它只是个单签名的闪电钱包。
While in Cashew, it's a single sig Lightning Wallet.
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