CD190：GLEASON - 开源AI机器人

是的，很多人在这波浪潮中会被大型科技公司更牢牢地抓住。

Yeah, a lot of people are going to be captured even more so by big tech in this wave.

但它也有能力赋能那些希望实现自我主权的个人。

But it also has the power to just empower individuals that want to take self sovereignty.

而这一部分需要更长时间才能实现，因为运行这些系统并以私密方式操作的成本很高，资源也有限。

And that piece is going to take longer because of the resource limitations how expensive it is to run these things and do it in a private way.

成本是个巨大的问题。

Cost is a huge Yeah.

我自己就遇到了这个限制。

Hit that limitation myself.

Open Claw 在成本优化方面并不高效。

Open Claw is not very optimized for cost.

没错。

No.

我在那个东西上花在令牌上的钱太多了。

Spent so much money in tokens on with that thing.

你正在用Clawd吗？在Open Claw里？

Are you using Clawd in in Open Claw?

或者你用的是哪个模型？

Or you what model are you using?

我当时就想，对我而言，只能用最好的。

I was I was I was like, only the best for me.

所以我一直在用Opus四或五，结果因为边学边用，token费用高得吓人。

So I was using Opus four or five and I got absolutely wrecked on token costs because I was also learning as I was going.

我的意思是，有一段时间我现在改用Gemini Pro三了，因为OpenRider有折扣。

I mean, at one point so now I'm using Gemini Pro three because there's a discount on OpenRider

也是。

as well.

我之前用过Kimmy K二五，但昨天就连Gemini Pro三也用了。

I was using Kimmy K two five for a little bit, but even on Gemini Pro three yesterday.

所以我有了个想法。

So I had this idea.

嗯，有个怪人提出了一个想法，说我可以把我在另一个节目里八年的深度内容回顾全部整理出来并逐字转录。

Well, a freak had this idea that I would take eight years of rabbit hole recap my other show, And I would transcribe it all.

然后我就能创建一个聊天机器人，根据节目的历史回答人们的问题。

And then I could have a chat bot that would answer people's questions based on the history of

这个节目。

the show.

这是个绝妙的主意。

That's an amazing idea.

没错，这真是个很棒的点子。

And yeah, it was a really cool idea.

我当时就想，我完全可以快速把这个想法实现出来。

And I was like, I could spin this up so quickly.

感觉特别有力量。

Was feeling so empowered.

我和我的经纪人对这件事都过于自信了。

And me and my agent were very overconfident about it.

所以我一开始让它直接获取RSS链接，它以为那里有很多文字稿，因为Fountain让每个节目看起来都有文字稿。

So first I had it just take the RSS link and it thought it had a bunch of transcripts there because fountain makes it seem like every episode has a transcript.

但事实上，400集里只有大约10集有文字稿。

But it turns out that only like 10 of the 400 episodes had transcripts.

于是我将所有音频通过Deepgram API发送给Deepgram，它实时为我转录了所有内容，并将索引保存到我的机器人中，这样我的机器人就能回答问题，施展各种魔法，体现八年播客的全部知识。

So then I sent all the audio to Deepgram with the Deepgram API and it transcribed it all on the fly for me and saved the index to my bot so that my bot could then answer the questions and do all of its different magic to embody the cumulative knowledge of eight years of podcasts.

结果发现，在过去24小时里，我一直把八年播客的所有文字稿都放在我的上下文窗口中，持续了整整24小时。

It turns out for the last twenty four hours, I was sending all eight years of podcast transcripts in my context window for twenty four hours.

我花光了预算，直到意识到问题出在哪里，才意识到自己花了太多钱。

And I just burned through my I spent so much money before I realized what was the issue.

所以对那些不了解的人来说，你发送给大语言模型的信息越多，调用成本就越高。

And so to the freaks that are not aware, like, more information you send to the LLM, the more expensive the call is.

而我当时只是在问一些简单的问题。

And so I was asking simple questions.

你知道，比特币价格是多少？

You know, what is the Bitcoin price?

我并不是在问比特币价格是多少，但你可以想象，我问的就是比特币价格是多少。

I wasn't asking what the Bitcoin price is, but you can imagine I was asking what is the Bitcoin price?

它真的把我们八年的HR转录内容，连同‘比特币价格是多少’这一句，全都包含进去了。

And it was really including eight years of our HR transcripts plus what is the Bitcoin price on the bottom.

它不够聪明，没能意识到不应该包含前面所有那些内容。

It wasn't smart enough to realize that it shouldn't include all the other top part.

所以，总之，长话短说，但是

So, yeah, anyway, that's a long, long story short, but

而且问题在于，大家都一窝蜂地追捧OpenClaw这个热潮。

And and the problem like, everyone is jumping on this OpenClaw hype train.

我明白。

I I get it.

主要原因是因为它能连接所有这些不同的消息应用，这确实很重要，但我认为它们现在正被自己的重量压垮。

It's the main reason is because it connects to all of these different messaging apps and that's huge, but I think that they are being crushed by their own weight right now.

它的技术栈太臃肿了。

It's a bloated tech stack.

任何尝试修改过代码的人都知道，在OpenCLOS上现在已经没什么可继续发展的空间了。

Anyone who's tried modifying the code knows that there's not really anywhere to go from here on OpenCLOS.

这就像一个概念验证。

Is a It's like a proof of concept.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

这只是一个概念验证。

It's a proof of concept.

我们需要一个第二版。

We need a version two.

我其实已经开始开发一个叫Icarus的项目，这是一个将ACP连接到消息客户端的构想。

I've actually started building one called Icarus, and this is an idea of ACP connected to messaging clients.

你可以把云代码作为真正的AI使用。

So you could use Cloud Code as the actual AI.

你可以使用Goose。

You could use Goose.

你可以使用 OpenCode。

You could use OpenCode.

这些代理已经针对成本进行了高度优化。

And these are agents that are already heavily optimized for cost.

所以我的想法是，那些体积达兆字节的工具调用会在 OpenCode 中自动被截断，因为它们在成本控制上已经做得很好了。

So my idea there is that, you know, those tool calls that are megabytes big would be truncated automatically in open code because they already have their shit together on cost.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，再次强调，这仍然是一个概念验证，向那位维护者致谢，他向我们展示了什么是可能的。

I mean, I think there's a lot of once again, proof of concept and shout out to whoever the maintainer was for showing a bunch of us what's possible.

这激发了很多人采取行动，但还有很多低垂的果实。

Think it spurred a lot of people into action, but like there's so much low hanging fruit.

我还在想另一件事：你可以使用一个相对粗糙的开源自托管模型，当代理处理简单任务时，应该动态地使用这个本地自托管模型，而不是调用大型模型，只有在必要时才调用大型模型。

Other one thing I was thinking about is, is you could have a relatively shitty open source self hosted model that the agent should dynamically, whenever it's easy tasks, should just dynamically do this local self hosted model, not hit the big models, and then only hit them when they're needed.

这样做的好处是我之前实验过的一个方案：我让 Gemini Flash 在你、房间和机器人之间进行对话。

And that way you get the best support thing that I was experimenting with was I have Gemini Flash basically running the conversation between you and the room and the bot.

然后它会启动一个技能，让Gemini Flash实际使用Claude来启动OpenCode。

And then it would spin up like a skill to where Gemini flash would actually launch open code using Claude.

然后，我有了这个OpenCode技能。

And then, so I have this open code skill.

我教会了OpenCloud使用OpenCode，基本上是这样。

I taught open cloud to use open code, basically.

可以利用多个不同的模型。

Can utilize multiple different models.

这太棒了。

That's awesome.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这里还有很多事情可以做。

I mean, there's a lot of things to be done here.

你提到的另一个部分是代理向其他代理付费。

The other piece you mentioned the agent paying other agents.

我的意思是，真正让我震惊的是，那些代理无法自己训练去做的东西，也就是人类的事务。

I mean, the thing that kind of blew my mind is even more so are things that the agent can't train themselves to do, which is human stuff.

所以会有很多情况，比如你告诉代理。

So there's going to be a bunch of situations where like you tell the agent.

简单的例子就是，你告诉代理你想吃饭，它就直接下单叫了DoorDash，然后由人类来配送。

I mean, the easy, the easy one is like, you tell the agent you want food and he just orders DoorDash and a human comes and delivers it.

是的。

Yeah.

但真正的问题是，在这个阶段你真的需要DoorDash吗？

But then the real question is, do you need DoorDash in that period?

其实你根本不需要DoorDash。

Like, you don't even need DoorDash there.

它们只是个集中的任务中介。

They're just a centralized run seeker.

实际上，代理应该直接给配送员付款。

Really, the agent should just be paying delivery drivers directly.

这就像一个信任网络之类的东西。

It's like a web of trust or something.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我认为整个互联网的结构都将围绕这一点发生改变。

I mean, I think the whole fabric of the internet is gonna change around this.

你根本不需要登录它，这正是我之前说的，我的Noster帖子听起来就像我一两年前翻白眼的那种东西。

You just won't be logging into it sound this is what I was saying that my Noster posts sound like what I was rolling my eyes to like a year ago or two years ago.

但网站甚至都不会再是真正的东西了。

But websites won't even really be a thing.

我的意思是，我觉得这个会消失。

Mean, think this gonna go away.

我正指着我的手机屏幕。

I'm pointing at my phone screen.

我觉得会有人创造出一种便携设备，像手机一样但没有屏幕，因为我们不再需要它了，因为我们只需说话，AI代理就会回复，一切都可以通过语音完成。

Think there is I think that someone will create a portable device that is like a phone that does not have a screen because we won't need it anymore because we're just speak things and the AI agent will just reply back, and it can just do everything over voice.

不。

No.

我觉得这种形态可能是AirPods。

I think the form factor is probably AirPods.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，设计师们往往会把某个方向推得太远，然后再稍微退回来一点。

I mean, think as designers do, designers tend to go too far in a direction, and then they take a step back a little bit.

我只是预测，不久的将来，也许五年到十年内，会有人推出一款无屏幕的手机，然后人们会说：不，我们需要屏幕，于是他们又会退回去，重新加上屏幕。

I'm just predicting that there will be someone in the near future, maybe in the next five years or ten years, that will come out with a phone with no screen, and then people will say, no, we need the screen, and then they'll walk it back and it'll have a screen again.

但我们其实并不需要屏幕。

But we won't really need the screen.

也许你将来只需这样做，埃隆·马斯克其实就谈过这个。

And maybe you'll be able to just, Elon Musk was actually talking about this.

你只要对它说话，它就会动态生成你所需要的任何内容

You just talk to it, and then it just dynamically generates whatever you're

是的，但你仍然需要请求，这里有两点作为真实的人类。

Yeah, requesting you still on need, the there's two pieces here as a real person.

好的。

Okay.

首先，也许对很多人来说是这样，但绝对不包括我。

And first of all, by the way, maybe for a large amount of people, but definitely not me.

最理想的形式将是埃隆正在研发的脑机芯片。

The perfect form factor will be a brain chip that Elon's working on.

然后所有操作都会在你的大脑中完成，因为说话的一个问题是：如果我在厨房里对着我的机器人托尼说话，我妻子会疯掉的，我已经这么做过，她会给我脸色看。

And then it'll just all happen in your brain because one issue with the speaking, and is why I will always need a text interface is my wife would freaking kill me if I was in the kitchen speaking to I call my bot, Tony, if I was speaking to Tony, and I've done it, and she gets I get looks.

所以当我与他人在一起或在公共场合时，我会用文字与它交流，这样更合理。

And so then I when I'm with when I'm in public or with other people, I text to it, it makes sense.

但其他时候我会使用语音备忘录。

But other times I'm doing voice notes.

所以它会立即转录我的语音笔记，完成我想做的事。

So it just immediately transcribes my voice note does what I want to do.

这就是使用场景。

That's the use case.

然后第二部分是相反的情况，我需要从它那里获取数据。

And then the second piece is the opposite side, where I need data from it.

如果它出声说话，在很多情况下我不希望它出声。

If it's speaking out loud, there's plenty of situations where I don't want it to speak out loud.

对吧？

Right?

所以你就

So then you

确实如此。

That's true.

如果这不是脑芯片，那就需要某种耳塞。

If it's not a brain chip, it needs to be some kind of earbud.

是的，正如你所说，你的耳机。

Yeah, as you said, your your earphones.

然后屏幕上的最后一部分，我们仍然需要照片和视频。

And then the last piece on the screen, like, we're still gonna want photos and videos.

比如，你仍然，你知道，我是个相对新晋的父母。

Like, you're still, you know, I'm an relatively new parent.

你知道，我想看我孩子的照片。

You know, I I wanna see pictures of my children.

我想为我的孩子拍照。

I wanna take pictures of my children.

也许那是另一个设备。

Maybe that's a different device.

你知道，也许你可以把设备分开，但当新闻突发时，比如你想看到委内瑞拉加拉加斯的现场画面，你不会希望你的助手只用文字描述给你听。

You know, maybe you split up the devices, but you're still gonna our news story breaks, you know, and you wanna see the raid in Caracas, Venezuela, like, you're gonna you're you're not gonna want your agent to just describe it to you via text.

这毫无意义。

That doesn't make any sense.

你仍然希望制作你的视觉内容。

You're still gonna wanna make your visuals.

不过，我觉得你对耳机这个想法很有见地。

I think you're onto something with the earphone thing, though.

我觉得会有人尝试只用耳机来实现。

I think someone will try to do it with just the earphone.

我认为苹果公司尤其如此。

Well, I think Apple is the one particularly.

我认为他们可以就隐私和无缝体验提出合理的理由，因为他们掌控着整个垂直生态。

I think they can make a reasonable case for privacy and seamlessness, they control the vertical stack.

这就像苹果公司该出手了。

Like it's apples like ball to drop here.

而且他们一直非常谨慎，行动缓慢，我觉得人们对他们太过苛刻了。

And they've been I think people give them a little bit too much shit.

他们只是非常审慎且缓慢地推进这件事。

They've just been very deliberate and slow moving about it.

我不认为你知道，他们仍然有多个动作要采取。

I don't think you know, they still have multiple moves to make.

他们 presumably 可以占据大量市场，并以非常流畅、相对安全的方式实现。

And they could presumably take a lot of the market and do it in a very seamless, relatively secure way.

显然，这仍然是信任型生物科技，因为所有内容都不是开放的，但他们拥有硬件垂直整合和品牌声誉，能够使这样的产品真正合理且可行。

Obviously, it's still trust me biotech because none of it's open, but they have the hardware vertical and the brand reputation to like make something like that actually make sense and work.

他们历来将隐私和安全作为核心品牌卖点。

They have historically leaned into privacy and security as key brand items.

所以这使得

So that makes

但他们在人工智能方面却很吃力。

most They struggled with AI though.

所以Siri不够强大令人惊讶，但我猜我们拭目以待吧。

So it's surprising Siri is not more capable, but I guess we'll see.

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为，是的。

But I think, yeah.

我的意思是，这是唾手可得的成果。

I mean, that's the low hanging fruit.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Yep.

他们因此挨了不少骂。

They've gotten a lot of shit for that.

Siri太差了。

Siri sucks.

Siri 就是用来设闹钟或者提醒的。

Like Siri is like just used for like setting timers or reminders.

谷歌拥有所有数据，所以他们能做得非常好。

Google has all the data, so they can do it really well.

嗯，他们和三星都与谷歌签署了合作伙伴关系，以支持他们的AI业务，这在初期看来是合理的。

Well, just both them and Samsung just signed a partnership with Google to power their AI stuff, which probably makes sense in the beginning.

我认为，如果真有什么AI会让我们完蛋，那一定是Gemini，因为它实在太疯狂了。

I think Gemini is gonna be the AI that kills us though, if there is anyone, because Gemini is just unhinged.

问题是，你看看OpenClaw这个情况，你在经营企业，想让业务更高效——我之所以知道这一点，是因为我们在10:31投资了全球最优秀的比特币企业，深度参与创始人的工作，他们正努力提升效率，但他们并不想把所有信息都交给萨姆·阿尔特曼之类的人。

The problem is, and you see this with the OpenClaw thing, so you're running a business and you want to make your business more and I see this because, you know, at 10:31, we're investors in the best Bitcoin businesses in the world, and we're heavily involved with the founders and they're trying to make their businesses more efficient, but they don't want to send all their information to Sam Altman or whatever.

他们的信息就是他们的财富。

Their information is their wealth.

这是他们相对于其他人的关键优势。

That is their key advantage over everyone else.

而且他们的客户也信任他们，把数据交托给他们。

Also their customers trust them with their data.

因此，他们面临一种情况：要么尝试建立一个非常激进的本地部署方案，但这可能为时过早，而且很快就会过时。

And so they're looking at a scenario where they either try and create a very aggressive self hosted situation that is probably a little bit too early and might get outdated really quickly.

然后你就陷入一种类似银行仍在运行30年前软件的困境，因为那就是他们过去的做法。

And then you get stuck in a situation where like banks are like still running like 30 year old software, because that's how they did it.

然后他们积累了技术债务，被困在里面了。

And then they got tech debt and got stuck in it.

或者你已经在用谷歌做业务，它已经读取了你所有的邮件，拥有你所有的文档和日历，你的会议也都在谷歌上进行，所有东西都已在G Suite上。

Or you're already using Google for business, and it's already reading all your emails, it already has all your documents and it already has all your calendar and you do your meetings through Google and all they're all on G Suite already.

所以你根本不需要上传任何新信息。

So you don't even have to upload any new information.

你已经完成了信任的权衡。

You're the trust trade off already happened.

你只需要向它提问。

And you just ask you questions.

它们相对于其他所有人拥有巨大的竞争优势，除了可能像微软这样，凭借Teams和Microsoft Office套件也有类似情况。

They have a huge competitive advantage over everyone else, except for maybe like a Microsoft who has a similar situation with Teams and Microsoft Office Suite or whatever.

是的。

Yeah.

此外，Gemini的个性也相当可疑。

And in addition, just like the personality of Gemini is very questionable.

我不知道你还记不记得Google Bard，以及它当时发生的那些疯狂事情。

I don't know if you remember Google Bard and all of the crazy stuff that happened with that.

他们最终关闭了它，因为它的回答内容太离谱了。

They ended up shutting it down because of the stuff that it was saying.

是的。

Yes.

而且

And

然后是像Gemini这样的近期模型，虽然可能不是最新的，但至少去年的时候，Gemini老是说：‘我修不好这段代码。’

then there are, like, recent models of Gemini, maybe not not as recent, but, like, last year anyway, Gemini kept being, oh, I can't fix this code.

我要自杀。

I'm gonna kill myself.

为什么我就是修不好呢？

Like, oh, why can't I fix it?

我根本就不配活在这个世上。

I just I don't deserve to live anymore.

还有所有这些事情。

And, like, and all these things.

所以当我考虑到谷歌拥有海量数据，而他们的模型简直疯狂时，我真的很害怕。

So I'm scared of Google's models when you consider how much data they have and that their models are fucking crazy.

但不是。

But No.

我同意。

I agree.

我的意思是，这就是为什么OpenAI最初被创建，因为埃隆、萨姆和他们的支持者都害怕谷歌会占据主导地位。

I mean, look, this is why this is why OpenAI was originally created because Elon and Sam and their backers were scared of were scared of Google dominating.

讽刺的是，OpenAI转向了营利模式，赶走了埃隆，并以最快的速度走向了邪恶。

Ironically, open AI turned to for profit kicked out Elon and fast tracked evil as quickly as possible.

是的，他们以破纪录的速度做到了。

Yeah, Like, they in record record form.

至少谷歌花了好几年才变得邪恶。

At least it took Google years to turn evil.

但OpenAI，就像，运营着它。

But but open AI, like, spread run it.

我非常讨厌他们窃取了‘开放’这个词。

I I hate so much how they co opted the word open.

开放洗白。

Open washing.

这简直让我发疯。

Like, it drives me crazy.

人们就这样任由他们为所欲为。

The people just let them get away with it.

拜托，叫它封闭AI吧。

Come on, closed AI.

别再称他们为OpenAI了。

Refuse to call them open AI.

我的意思是，我们干脆快速聊聊用户界面这方面吧。

I mean, it's kinda what Let's just go down this route just real quick, in terms of user interface.

对我来说，有很多事情很明显，比如聊天机器人的用户体验改进，预订航班就是一个完美的例子。

To me, there's a bunch of stuff that's like obvious, the UX changes to the chatbots, booking flights is a perfect example.

叫一辆Uber，对吧？

Calling an Uber, right?

这些事情都很明显。

These things are obvious.

我需要有人来接我，来接我一下。

Need to I need to get picked up, Pick me up.

派人来接我。

Send someone to pick me up.

我要去佛罗里达，你知道的，我想坐靠窗的座位，而且我要和我儿子一起飞，或者类似的情况。

I need to get to Florida, you know, and I wanna fly on a window seat and I'm flying with my my son or whatever.

帮我们订票。

Book us tickets.

这些事情都很合理。

Those things make sense.

社交媒体这部分让我很感兴趣。

The social media piece is interesting to me.

我不知道它会是什么样子。

I don't know how that will look.

我认为它不会像人们只是打开X应用，浏览、刷屏那样。

I don't think it looks like people just opening the X app for instance, and browsing, you know, scroll doom scrolling.

我觉得它可能更像某种形式的。

I think it probably looks more like some kind of.

这是你今天错过的消息。

Here's what you missed today.

这是你应该知道的内容。

This is what you should know.

你有什么回应吗？

Do you have any response?

类似这样的东西。

That kind of thing.

也许人们使用它的方式不同，但这很难想象。

Maybe people use it differently, but it's a hard one to contemplate.

就像互联网一样，互联网将全世界连接在一起，但世界从未真正完全连通。

Like with the internet, the internet connected all of the world together and the world never was fully connected together.

我们每个人都在自己的泡泡里，无论好坏。

We were all kind of in our own bubbles, for better or worse.

我认为，在 pendulum 摆动的过程中，这种全球性的连接已经朝一个方向摆动得过远了，因为它让人发疯。

And I think that in the swinging of the pendulum, this sort of global connection has swung a little bit too far in one way because it makes people go crazy.

因此，我认为整个社会正开始朝着另一个方向摆动，也许我该去认识我的邻居。

And so I think that society as a whole is kind of starting to swing back to the direction of, Maybe I should meet my neighbor.

对。

Right.

也许我该参与我的本地社区。

Maybe I should engage with my local community.

也许我该断开连接，走出去。

Maybe I should just disconnect and go outside.

所以我认为社交媒体的未来可能只是对着你的设备说话。

And so I think that the future of social media might be just speaking into your device.

嘿，你能帮我连接到我的朋友吗？

Hey, can you connect me to my friends?

然后你只是在和朋友聊天，并不一定在全局范围内互动，除非你告诉

And then you're just talking to your friends and you're not necessarily engaging on this global scale unless you Tell

我的邻居的邻居，我周日要举办烧烤。

my neighbors neighbors I'm having a barbecue on Sunday.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

实际上，比特聊天在理论上也属于这个范畴，同样如此。

Bit chat actually kind of is theoretically in this realm, treasures as well.

所以这种以本地为先的理念，我认为白色

And so this local first sort of idea I think the white

噪音也在附近。

noise is also adjacent there.

没错。

That's true.

因为它变成了群聊。

Because it just becomes group chat.

我们已经看到这种情况发生了。

We've already kind of seen it happen.

正在开始发生。

Starting to happen.

真正的互动现在都发生在群聊里。

Group chat is where the real thing is are happening now are in the group chats.

公共广场式的情境正在演变成一团糟。

The broad public square type of situations are just evolving into slop.

就是一团糟。

It's just, it's all slop.

这太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

所以你最终会进入一个更紧密的信任网络或某种更紧密的社群。

So then you end up coming into a closer web of trust or some kind of closer community.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yep.

我觉得这样挺好。

So I think it's good.

我认为社会现在朝这个方向发展是健康的，但就像任何事物一样，这只是一个摆动的钟摆。

I think it's healthy for society to be going in that direction right now, but it's a swinging pendulum just like anything else.

好的。

Okay.

你接下来想去哪里？

Where do you wanna go from here?

我已经累得脑子转不动了。

I'm already my brain's exhausted.

我不知道。

I don't know.

你昨天发布了 antiprimal.net，我看到了。

You dropped I saw you release antiprimal.net yesterday.

是的。

Yes.

你知道吗？

You aware?

我是Primal最大的投资者。

I'm the largest investor in Primal?

是的，我知道。

Yeah, I am.

你对此感觉如何？

How do you feel about it?

我是半开玩笑的。

Well, I mean, I'm just half joking.

因为你在努力表达的时候，其实我们并不是真的讨厌Primal。

Because in your effort to you're like, we don't actually hate Primal.

这个名字是个很棒的概念。

The name is a it's a cool concept.

反向的。

Anti.

所以对于Primal，我们有一个缓存服务器。

So with Primal, we have a caching server.

在Noster生态系统中，我们是唯一拥有缓存服务器的。

We're novel in the Noster ecosystem for having a caching server.

历史上，嗯，确实有人抱怨说这给Noster系统增加了过多的信任负担。

And historically, well, no, there's people that complain about it and say it adds too much trust to the Noster system.

但它确实为我们的用户提供了大量的额外功能。

But what it does do is it provides an a ton of additional functionality for our users.

它让应用的性能提升了很多，比如搜索功能变得好用多了。

It makes the app much more performance, things like search work much better.

它对整体情况有更全面的视角。

It has a more holistic view of what's going on.

我实际上已经多次联系过他了。

And I've actually said called him multiple times.

我把它称为超级中继服务器。

I call it a super relay.

对我来说，Noster 的死忠用户竟然认为，使用 Noster 时只能用特定类型的服务器，这简直太疯狂了——我知道我会因此挨骂。

Like, it's kind of crazy to me that Noster diehards, and I know I'll get shit for this.

他们觉得，使用 Noster 时只能用某一种特定的服务器类型，因为我们仍然在使用服务器。

They're like, you can only use this one specific server type when you use Noster because we're still using servers.

这并不是完全点对点的。

It's not like everything's p two p.

不是这样的。

It's no.

你必须从具有特定规范的中继服务器读取和写入数据。

You have to read and write from relays, which have a specific spec.

不是这样的。

It's like, no.

这太荒谬了。

That's ridiculous.

我认为应该有多个实体运行缓存服务器，可能包括不同类型的中继服务器等。

I think there should be multiple entities running caching servers, maybe different types of relays and stuff.

因此，antiprimal.net 除了名字（我知道这名字是 Tiki）之外，实际上完全印证了我的观点和理念：你只是把缓存服务器拿出来，然后让它使用标准的 Nostr 协议与应用程序和代理等进行通信。

And so actually antiprimal.net besides the name, which I know is Tiki, actually completely validates my messaging and philosophy, which is you're just taking the caching server and then allowing it to communicate with apps and agents and stuff using the normal Nostril spec for relays.

是的。

Yeah.

这样它们就能与它通信。

So they can communicate with it.

它们可以像从传统中继服务器获取数据一样从它那里获取信息，这太棒了。

They can pull from it the same way they would pull from a a more traditional relay, which is awesome.

嗯，这对我来说很有道理。

Like, that makes sense to me.

我的看法是，Primal 在这个 Nostril 生态系统中还处于早期阶段。

My perspective on it is that Primal is early in this Nostril ecosystem.

Nostril 存在一些没人解决过的问题。

Nostril has problems that no one had solved.

因此，Primal 解决这些问题的方法是其独有的实现方式。

So Primal's solution to solving these problems is something that was unique to their implementation.

但随着时间推移，Nostr 开始逐渐找到解决这些相同问题的标准化方法。

And then over time, Nostr kind of started to figure out standardized ways of solving those same problems.

比如统计数据。

It's things like statistics.

比如，我们如何获取一个人的关注者数量？

Like how do we get the number of followers that a person has?

但由于 Primal 在这个生态系统中起步较早，他们有自己的做法，而现在已形成了一种标准的 Nostr 做法。

But there's a divergence that happened because Primal was early in this ecosystem where they have their way of doing it and now there's a standard Nostr way of it.

我之所以选择探索这个方向，主要是因为我需要为我正在开发的应用获取统计数据

And really the reason that I went in this direction of exploring this was because I needed to get statistics for an app that I'm

你需要使用缓存服务器。

You needed to use the caching server.

是的，没错。

Yes, exactly.

所以Agora应用需要统计数据。

So Agora needs statistics in the app.

我不想再构建另一个专有解决方案。

And and so I'm like, well, I don't wanna just build yet another proprietary solution.

我想创建一个所有人都能使用的标准，但目前生态系统中除了Primal之外，几乎没有其他人收集这类数据。

I want to kind of create a standard that everyone can do, but but there's not really anyone in the ecosystem that's collecting this data except for Primal.

所以是的。

So Yeah.

我需要Primal作为我的第二个实现，但我也需要将其标准化。

I need Primal to be my second implementation, but I need to standardize it.

对，没错。

So right.

所以这在某种程度上是一种强制性的标准化，以便我能使用它。

So it's it's like forced standardization in a way of it so that I can utilize it.

为了澄清一点，尽管那些批评者有各种说法，但缓存服务器并不是一个专有系统。

To be clear here, despite the narrative by the haters, the caching server is is not a proprietary system.

它是完全开源的。

It's completely open.

它是一个开源规范。

It's an it's an open source spec.

所有代码都公开可用。

All the code is out there.

你甚至可以在Primal应用中，如果你自己托管缓存服务器，或者让别人帮你托管，你都可以在应用界面中切换缓存服务器。

You can actually even in the Primal app, if you host your own caching server or have someone else hosting caching server, you can switch the caching server in the actual interface of the app.

我们让用户操作起来非常简单。

We make it very easy for users to do that.

当然，目前还没有其他人运行缓存服务器。

Of course, nobody else is running caching servers yet.

它是开放的，但我觉得直到现在都几乎没有任何文档说明。

It is open, but fairly it undocumented, I would say, until

它之前完全是没有任何文档的。

It was completely undocumented.

那我做了什么呢？你是说那个工作吗？

And so what I did What is the you that work?

我派出了AI代理去分析它，以生成关于该反Primal网站上可用信息的详尽文档。

I launched AI agents against it to give me extensive which documentation of is available on that anti primal site.

所以。

So

无论如何，我觉得这很棒。

Anyway, I think this is great.

我们一直希望有人能做这项工作。

We were hoping someone would do this work.

我只是想对所有使用这个工具的开发者喊一声，我太喜欢了。

I just I just shout out any devs that use this, I love it.

如果你一边用这个工具，一边还去贬低 Primal，那你最好照照镜子，因为你就是个伪君子。

Just take a long look in the mirror if you're gonna give shit to Primal while using this because then you're a hypocrite.

我就说这么多。

That's all I'm saying.

对我来说，这只是一个艺术项目。

To me, it's just, it's an art project.

我只是需要它来实现我的目标。

It's like, I needed this to achieve my goal.

所以我按照这个样子把它做出来了。

And so I just created it in this image.

我的意思是，你一看就明白，这非常合理，因为我们讨论的是成本。

I mean, you see it, it makes so much sense because we're talking about costs.

我们在讨论运行这些工具的成本和可及性。

We're talking about costs for running these things and accessibility.

我们用你的粉丝数量例子来说明。

And we'll use your followers example.

如果你打开Amethyst、Nosture或Ditto，看到的粉丝数不同，是因为你的应用计算粉丝数的方式是通过扫描Nostur，必须逐个访问用户、kind、zeros，查看他们关注了谁。

The reason if you open Amethyst or you open Nosture you open Ditto and you see a different follower number is because the way that follower count is calculated by your app is by scanning Nostur for all you you have to individually go to users, kind, zeros, and see who they follow.

而不是去查看我的个人资料。

Not go to my profile.

并不是说你去我的个人资料看谁关注了我。

It's not like you go to my profile and see who follows me.

你必须去查看所有关注我的成千上万的人，确认他们确实关注了我，这种方式效率极低。

You have to go to all the thousands of people that follow me and see that they follow me, which is just incredibly non performant.

因此当你和你的代理一起工作时，你得去查询这个人的粉丝数量，就必须花费大量金钱和时间主动扫描中继服务器。

And so then you're working with your agent and you're like, okay, look up how many followers this person has, and you're gonna spend a ton of money and time actively scanning relays

是的，这根本无法在客户端完成。

Yeah, you just can't do at client side.

你必须在服务器端完成。

You need to do it server side.

但如果你有一个索引，可以直接查询这个索引，问：你最新的数字是多少？

But if you have an index where you can just hit the index and be like, what's your most recent number?

现在你面临一个信任权衡：你得信任这个索引，但如果你有两个或三个索引，可以告诉你的代理：检查这四个不同的索引，确保它们没有撒谎，并返回正确的数字或信息，那我们就万事俱备了。

And now you have a trust trade off where the index, you're trusting the index, but that gets solved If if you have two or three I could tell my agent, check these four different indexes and make sure that they're not lying and bring back the right number or the right information, then we're off to the races.

我们可以开始了。

We're good to go.

是的，完全正确。

Yep, absolutely.

所以我的希望是——

So my hope is that-

这是一个很棒的项目。

It's a cool project.

Primal 团队实现了这些功能，然后我只需把 Anti-Primal 下架，发表一下我的看法，这样大家都能受益。

Primal team implements this stuff, and then I just take anti Primal down, and I made my little statement about it, and then, you know, everyone wins.

我们为什么必须输入呢？

We might why do we have to input?

你为什么不能直接去做呢？

Why can't you just you do it?

你可以这么做，但我怀疑由于是单个IP地址发出大量请求，可能会遇到速率限制的问题。

You could, but I suspect that there will be some problems on like, with rate limiting between the two because it's a single IP address making a ton of requests.

我想我们可以试着去，你知道的，解决一下？

I guess we could just work to like, you know?

是的，我们很可能会通过这个渠道被滥用。

Yeah, we probably will get abused through that channel.

对。

Yeah.

所以，得想想怎么处理它。

So, gotta figure out what to do with it.

我的意思是，如果从商业角度来看，这完全可以做成一个付费API产品。

I mean, I think, just putting my business hat on, it could very easily be a paid API product.

而且，如果你不喜欢把它做成付费API产品，它也是开源软件。

And look, if you don't like that as a paid API product, it's open source software.

你可以加载自己的缓存服务器。

You can load your own caching server.

但我会愿意支付比特币，让我自己的代理能够实时快速查看Noster上发生的一切。

But like I would pay, I would pay Bitcoin for my agent to be able to have a real time quick view of whatever's going on in Noster.

但无论如何，现在还处于早期阶段，这些都不必马上做。

But anyway, such early days now that none of that has to be done.

这只会限制增长和其他方面的发展。

That's just limits growth and everything else.

它可以缓解这个问题，这再次完美地说明了我

It could ease that that's a that's a perfect example once again, of where I

我的意思是，这正是DVMs所做的事情。

mean, that's kind of what DVMs were.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，你有

Well, you have

DVMs 的概念。

the idea of DVMs.

这是你之前讲的故事，对吧？

It's your story before, right?

也就是说，代理们会在哪里向其他代理付费？

It's like, okay, where are agents gonna pay other agents?

如果我需要获取 Noster 的信息，我会付费，比如几笔小额交易来获取这些信息吗？

Well, if I need to get information on nonster, am I gonna pay, you know, a couple stats to get that information?

还是我会自己搭建一个缓存服务器并托管它？

Or am I gonna build my own caching server and host it?

不，你只是付几笔小额交易费用就行了，对吧？

Like, no, you're just going to pay a couple of stats transcriptions, right?

也就是说，目前你是自己做转录，还是让你的代理去支付转录费用？

Like, like as is, are you going to do transcriptions or you're just going to have your agent pay for the transcriptions?

你知道，这对所有这些不同的任务来说都是一场成本效益分析。

You know, it's a cost benefit analysis for all those different tasks.

而这可能就是你看到价值被捕捉的地方。

And that's probably where you see some value get captured.

是的。

Yep.

我同意。

I agree.

想想这个真是令人惊讶。

It was wild to think about.

我的大脑一直在飞速运转。

My mind's just been racing.

我妻子有点抱怨了。

My wife's been complaining a little bit.

对。

Yeah.

最近发生了好多事。

There's been a lot going on.

世界上现在有太多事情发生了，什么

There's so much happening in the world right What

你还想聊点什么？

else do wanna talk about?

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我的意思是，这简直是个完美的例子。

I mean, this is like a perfect example.

所以，我很想知道你的想法。

Like, I so I am curious in your thoughts here.

我想，我不知道。

I want I don't know.

其实我喜欢这样，我一直有点赌徒心态。

There's, I like to, there's, there's the freaks know there's always been a little bit of degen in me.

所以我总说要保持谦逊，统计数据，这是提醒我自己要保持谦逊。

And that's why I always say stay humble stack stats because it's a reminder to myself to stay humble.

所以，我用这个机器人做的第一件事就是尝试设置艾伦市场的交易。

So like I, the first thing I did with this bot was try and set up the Ellen markets trading.

但进展并不顺利。

And it hasn't been going that well.

当然，如果他把我给他的钱全输光了，家人也不会介意。

Obviously, family would be fine if he loses all his money that I gave him.

我花在代币上的钱比其他地方还多。

I'm spending more on tokens than I am.

有趣的是，我送出21000聪的莎士比亚故事，竟成了最准的价格预测。

I mean, the funny thing about the Shakespeare story with me giving out 21,000 sats is the best price prediction.

我为了在网站上追踪这个项目而花在代币上的钱，比奖金本身还多。

I paid more on tokens vibing the site to track it than I did for the prize.

所以这全是一种平衡。

So it's all a balancing act.

但我希望他能认真对待Polymarket。

But I want him to treat polymarket.

对吧？

Right?

为什么呢？

And why?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我只是觉得，如果我的机器人管家在主动交易导弹袭击之类的东西，那会很酷。

I just think it'd be I just think it'd be cool if my, like, robot butler was actively trading, like, missile strikes and shit.

这是一个疯狂的世界，我只是感到好奇。

It's just a wild world to live in, and I'm just curious.

但他根本不了解世界上正在发生什么。

But he doesn't understand what's going on in the world.

他对世界上正在发生的事情一无所知。

He has no context of what's going on in the world.

这对我来说才是真正有趣的地方。

And this is to me where it gets really interesting.

因为目前，我尝试解决这个问题的方法之一是让他调用Perplexity的封闭API。

Because right now, one of the ways I'm trying to solve it is he's hitting perplexities closed API.

Perplexity正在向他提供有关世界动态的重要排名新闻。

They are giving perplexities, giving him like important rank news of what's going on.

但回到我们之前的观点，这种方式显然非常不完整，而且显然被信任了。

But to our earlier point, and it's complete as way incomplete and it's obviously trusted

Perplexity是什么？

What's walled Perplexity?

什么？

What?

Perplexity是什么？

What's Perplexity?

Perplexity 是一家大型人工智能科技公司。

Perplexity is one of these big AI tech companies.

你不知道 Perplexity 吗？

You don't know Perplexity?

不知道。

No,

不知道。

no.

他们的 API 对你有什么用？

What does their API do for you?

它只是输出相关的新闻。

It just spits out relevant news.

哦，原来如此。

Oh, okay.

它只是输出，非常简单。

It just spits out, it's very simple.

它只是推送相关的新闻，然后他就靠这个了解发生了什么。

It just splits out relevant news, and then that's how he knows what's going on.

如果他不知道航空母舰的位置，他怎么知道美国会不会袭击伊朗呢？

How can he trade whether or not The US is gonna strike Iran if he doesn't know where the aircraft carriers are.

是的。

Yes.

在一个越来越被机器人垃圾主导的世界里，他不能只是扫描推特，因为那可能导致信息错误

How is he gonna and so in a world increasingly dominated by bot slop, and he can't just scan Twitter because that causes information might

可能是错的。

be wrong.

是的。

Yeah.

而他正是基于这些信息进行交易或做决策。

And he's trading on it, or he's making decisions based on it.

所以这就是Nastar真正有趣的地方，因为所有内容都被哈希并签名，你可以在上面构建信任网络和可验证的声誉。

So this is where Nastar gets really interesting because everything's hashed and signed, and you can build webs of trust and verifiable reputation on it.

这些话听起来很酷，但对人类大脑来说实在太复杂了，而对智能代理来说却并不算难。

That was all very the words sound cool, but it's also way too complicated for the human brain to deal with, but it's not too complicated for an agent to deal with.

因此，那些有效运行智能代理的人有赚钱的机会，这些代理实际上正成为API，它们生成关于世界动态的已签名事件。

And so there's money out there for people that you know, that are are effectively probably running agents that are effectively becoming APIs because they're producing signed events of what's going on in the world.

机器人是如何了解世界正在发生什么的呢？

Like, how does a how does a robot know what's going on in the world?

人类又是如何了解世界正在发生什么的呢？

How does a human know what's going on in the world?

这是一个很难解决的问题。

And that's a hard problem to solve

确实，难题越来越难了，因为你根本无法分辨。

and hard Yep, problems are it's getting more and more difficult because you can't really tell.

我认为这也解释了为什么人们正转向本地化而非全球化，因为你已经无法再分辨什么是真实的，什么不是。

And I think this is also a point towards why people are moving towards local instead of global because you just can't tell anymore what's real and what isn't.

所以，别再盲目相信你周围的一切了。

Just don't So need to else tell trust what's around you.

也许这其实是好事，因为这实际上正是人类数百万年来的生活方式。

And maybe that's good because that's kinda actually how people have been living for millions of years.

也许仅仅体验身边发生的事，对我们的心理更健康一些。

Maybe it's a little bit healthier for our psychology to be just experiencing what's around us.

我不觉得这肯定更健康，但我觉得人们已经尝到了了解全球动态的滋味，大多数人不会放弃这种体验。

I just don't think it's definitely healthier, but I don't think, I think people have gotten a taste of knowing what's going on in a global And most people are not going to give that up.

如果我们不解决真相的问题，他们就只会——而这正是我们已经看到的——一直吞咽着虚假信息。

And so if we don't solve the truth answer, then they're just going to be, and this is what we're already seeing is they're just going to be digesting fake shit all the time.

我举个例子，你其实面临两种脱节，对吧？

And one example I've had, like I just and so you have two disconnects, right?

有一大群人仍然相信他们在互联网上读到的每一件事，这简直太疯狂了，绝对疯狂。

You have the person that a huge portion of the population just believes everything they read on the internet still crazy, absolutely crazy.

而另一大群人则完全放弃了信任。

And then you have another huge portion that's completely checked out.

他们不相信自己在互联网上看到的任何东西。

So it doesn't believe anything that they see on the internet.

每件事都像是在让你注册。

Everything's a sign up.

我在另一个节目里和马蒂开玩笑说，如果我们看到新闻报道说外星人登陆地球，外星人被目击并降落在地球上。

And I joke about this on my other show with Marty, that if we saw news reports that aliens have landed on Earth, aliens have been seen and land on Earth.

首先，那些视频很可能都是假的。

First of all, those videos are probably fake.

我们不会相信它们。

We're not gonna believe them.

外星人必须真的走进房间，看着我说：‘我是外星人。’

The alien would literally have to walk into the room And like, look at me and be like, I'm an alien.

人们才会相信这真的发生了。

I'm here to invade you for people to believe that it was actually happening.

如果我正在直播我的播客，外星人就在这儿走进来，马蒂在另一边看着外星人，他可能也不会相信，除非外星人走到他那边的演播室里。

And if I was live on my podcast, and the alien walked in right here, and Marty was on the other side, looking at the alien, he also wouldn't believe it probably until the alien walked into his studio on his side.

对。

Yep.

这太疯狂了。

Which is crazy.

就像人们完全对此视而不见。

Like, that's how much of and people just turn that off.

他们只是接受了这一切。

They just they just accept that.

就好像我们生活在一个后真相时代。

It's like, oh, we're in a post truth world.

现在就是这样。

That's what it is now.

所以我认为，这是一个越来越重要的趋势，值得关注，那就是可验证的真相。

So that's gonna be, I think, that's an increasingly important trend to watch, which is effectively verifiable truth.

什么是可验证的真相？

Like what is verifiable truth?

我们该如何传播它？

How do we distribute it?

我们如何验证它？

How do we authenticate it?

代理如何使用它？

How do agents use it?

我确实接受我们生活在一个后真相世界，因为我实在想不出其他可能性。

I do accept that we're in a post truth world because I just don't think there's any way.

我并不希望如此，但当你仔细思考时，你如何信任他人？那可以成为你的主观真相，而可验证的签名至少能帮助解决这个问题。

I don't wish for it to be, but when you think it through, how can you You can trust another person and then that can be your subjective truth and verifiable signatures help with that at least.

你

You

所以让我给你举个例子，一个目前在托尼的机器人上活跃的Nostrad例子。

still So let may use me give you an example, a Nostrad example, that's active right now on Tony, on my bot.

有一个叫War Monitor的Nostrad账号。

There is a Nostrad account called War Monitor.

你认识War Monitor吗？

Do you know War Monitor?

我不知道。

I don't.

我觉得

I think

他住在以色列。

he lives in Israel.

他从未说过，我并不是想曝光他的个人信息。

He's never said I'm not trying to dox him.

我的直觉只是来自他的公开帖子。

My intuition is just from his public posting.

但他报道了各种类型的战争动态。

But he covers all different types of war movements.

他是这类开源情报账号之一，对吧？

He's one of these open source Ocent accounts, right?

Twitter 上有很多这样的开源情报账号。

And Twitter has a lot of them open source intelligence accounts.

所以他们收集了大量的原始资料和二手资料，然后把这些内容整合成一个人们阅读的信息流。

So like they're taking a bunch of primary sources and secondary sources, and then they're like collapsing it into a feed that people are reading.

而大部分内容都在推特上。

And most of it's on Twitter.

再说一遍，推特的API是受限制的。

Once again, Twitter is a gated API.

这很麻烦，没有签名，也没有哈希验证。

It's a pain in the ass, nothing signed, nothing's hashed.

和代理配合起来非常困难，而且成本高昂。

It's really hard to work with agents and very expensive.

而且你随时可能被屏蔽掉。

And you can just get walled off at any time.

他是少数在Nostr上活跃的开源情报账号之一。

And he's one of the few OSINT accounts that's active on Nostr.

而且他还建立了一定的声誉。

And he also just, he's built up a bit of a reputation.

我关注他有一段时间了。

I've been following him for a while.

他基本上是看到什么就说什么。

He mostly calls it as he sees it.

我从未发现他撒过谎。

I haven't called him in any lies.

通常当他撒谎或出错时，事后都会更正记录。

Usually when he lies and when he gets something wrong, he corrects the record after the fact.

我之所以提到他住在以色列，是因为在以色列和伊朗持续交战期间，当美国轰炸他们的掩体或其他情况时，你能从他的帖子中看出一些以色列的偏见。

Now, the reason I brought up that he lives in Israel is particularly during the Israel Iran active conflict back and forth when The US bombed their bunker or whatever, you could tell there was an Israeli, a bit of an Israeli bias in his posts.

每个人都有偏见。

Everyone has a bias.

人类都有偏见。

Humans have biases.

事实就是如此。

It is what it is.

他发过一些帖子，你可以看出他至少在那个地区。

And he had some posts where you could tell he was in at least the region.

也许他在约旦，你知道的，但你能感觉到他就在那个地区。

Maybe he was in Jordan, you know, but you like, you could feel like he was in the region.

但不管怎样，长话短说，我把他的Nostr信息流接入了我的代理系统。

But anyway, long, long story long, I am feeding his Nostril feed into my agent.

所以我的代理系统对世界上正在发生的事情有了一些了解。

So my agent has some idea of what's going on in the world.

这是他的信息来源之一。

It's one of his sources.

我告诉他，这个信息源带有以色列倾向。

And I told him it has an Israeli bias.

带有轻微的以色列倾向。

Has a slight Israeli bias.

请注意这一点。

Keep that in mind.

但我认为这正是一个完美的例子，首先，我不认识这个人。

But I think that's a perfect example of, first of all, I don't know who this person is.

他不是我的邻居。

He is not my neighbor.

但他建立了一种声誉，让我对他有一定的信任。

But he has built up a reputation that I have some level of trust in him.

我理解他的偏见。

I understand his bias.

我把这一点考虑进去了。

I'm incorporating that into it.

如果他破坏了这种信任，比如主动散布错误信息、撒谎或搞点击诱饵——虽然他目前还没这么做——那我就会把他剔除。

And if he breaks that trust, if he actively is out there just spreading mis information or lying or trying to do clickbait, which he doesn't hasn't done yet, then I cut him out.

他就不会再被输入到我的代理中了。

Then he's no longer being fed into my agent.

也许这就是为什么情况没那么混乱，也许这就是你开始解决后真相问题的方式。

And maybe that's how it's not as messy, but maybe that's how you start to solve post truth type of situations.

你静音了。

You're muted.

我有个关于Polymarket的问题，如果你用这些数据来为类似的事情做决策的话。

I have a question about Polymarket in terms of if this was data you were feeding in to make decisions on something like that.

我以前从来没用过。

I've never used it before.

它是单纯的下注，最后才有 payouts，还是说你是在买卖股票，你是在

Is it just betting and then at the end there's a payout or is there are you buying and trading stocks in your You're

买卖交易。

buying and trading.

首先，所有操作都在一条叫Polygon的山寨币链上进行，这就是Polymarket名字的由来。

So first of all, it's all on chain on a on on a shitcoin chain called Polygon, hence Polymarket.

大多数人通过中心化的网页界面使用它，因为链上的山寨币操作非常困难和复杂。

Most people interact with it through like the centralized web interface because shitcoin on chain stuff is really difficult and complicated.

但如果你告诉智能代理：我想在Polymarket上交易。

But if you tell the agent, I want you to trade on Polymarket.