罗斯·道萨特评论文章

我觉得这太棒了。

I think it's wonderfully.

我也是。

Me too.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

在这个情况下，它

In this instance, it

只是意味着，你懂的，真是巧了？

just means, like, wouldn't you know it?

这是个很棒的

That's a great

台词，罗斯。

line, Ross.

我是你的朋友彼得·蒂尔，正在帮助你融资。

I'm your friend Peter Thiel and helping you raise.

要实现人类的太空飞行，必须理解物理学和化学最深层的规律，将人类全部知识浓缩到一块微型通信芯片上。

Have to understand the deepest laws of physics and of chemistry to achieve man's spaceflight to condense all of human knowledge onto a tiny piece of telecon.

假设在你小时候，你和兄弟姐妹或朋友发明了一种私人语言，一套比猪拉丁语稍复杂一点的密码系统，其目的非常实际：让大人听不懂你们的私下交流。

Suppose that as a child, you developed a private language to use with your siblings or your friends, a simple set of codes slightly more sophisticated than pig Latin, with the eminently practical purpose of enabling private communications that grown ups wouldn't understand.

就让这种语言代表我们原始祖先为生存而发展出的工具包。

Let that stand for the survival driven toolkit of our primitive ancestors.

想象一个过于简化的类比，只是为了满足我非常狭隘的修辞目的。

Imagine an overly reductive analogy created to suit my very narrow rhetorical purposes.

而且

And

也是一个荒谬的类比。

a ridiculous one too.

假设在你长大后，你发现儿时的这套系统竟然能让你们朋友圈的人读懂并理解一套极其复杂的古代文本——其复杂程度堪比莎士比亚和亚里士多德的合集，其中包含了玛雅天文学、希腊哲学和埃及神秘主义的所有秘密，而这些文本恰好被你发现藏在你童年故居的阁楼里。

Mouth suppose that much later in life, you discovered that that childish system enables members of your circle of friends to read and understand a set of ancient texts as complex as Shakespeare and Aristotle put together that contained all the secrets of Mayan astronomy, Greek philosophy, and Egyptian mythicism, and that you happen to discover hidden in the attic of your childhood home.

其实我发现的是一只衣橱。

It was a wardrobe, actually, that I discovered.

你会直接假设吗？

Would you just assume?

我是个聪明的孩子，骗过大人真的能提升语言能力。

Well, I was a bright kid and putting one over on grown ups really builds linguistic skills.

难怪我能读懂那些恰好出现在我附近的神秘古籍。

No wonder I was able to read ancient books of esoteric knowledge that just happened to be hanging around in my vicinity.

实际上，每次你解出一个谜题或数学题，那就是耶稣。

Actually, every time you solve a riddle or a math problem, that's Jesus.

是的。

Yeah.

或者你会接受更明显的结论：你和你的朋友们是某个更大故事中的角色，而那本书某种程度上就是为你放置在那里的？

Or would you accept the more obvious conclusion that you and your friends were characters in a larger story and that the book was in some sense placed there for you?

罗斯，你小时候 literally 就是发出一些咕哝声，而现在你却写出了包含这样的句子的文章，但你并不是上帝智慧设计的智力奇迹。

Ross, you literally started with, like, little grunting noises as a baby, and here you are writing an article that includes the phrase, but you're not an intellectual miracle of God's intelligent design.

因为你是个装腔作势的混蛋。

It's because you're a pretentious asshole.

这就是为什么你觉得自己是上帝智慧设计的奇迹。

And that is why you think you're a miracle of God's intelligent design.

好吧。

Okay.

但我也想知道，对于罗斯来说，一个没有上帝的宇宙会是什么样子。

But I also wanna know what a universe without God would look like to Ross then.

好问题。

Great question.

语言会自发演化，而且没有任何向后兼容性吗？

Would language evolve spontaneously and with no backwards compatibility?

会不会有一天，一个高卢人走在森林里，突然就脱口而出：‘操。’

Would there just be a Gaul walking around the forest one day and he'd be like, fuck.

我是法国人。

I am French.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不，克里斯。

No, Chris.

我不知道你在说什么，伙计。

I have no idea what you're saying, man.

我现在是法国人。

I'm French now.

我生活在一个没有高卢人的宇宙里，而且我真的不是法国人。

I live in a universe where there's no Gaul, and I just I am not French.

天啊，还有更多这种内容。

God, there's still more of this.

抱歉。

Sorry.

正如前一张幻灯片所暗示的，宇宙的可理解性或许并不完全是证明上帝存在的论据。

As the previous slide suggests, the intelligibility of the cosmos is perhaps not exclusively an argument for the existence of God.

相反，它更像是一种论点，支持那些能看到神圣可能性但仍倾向于怀疑的人所持的立场。

Rather, it's more of an argument for a position that some people who can see divine possibilities are still inclined to doubt.

不仅上帝以某种遥远而难以理解的形式存在，而且他的无限心智与我们有限的心智之间也存在某种重要联系——我们在宇宙的格局中确实有意义，事实上，我们自身近乎神明的力量正是早期宗教所宣称之物的证明。

Not only that God exists in some distant unfathomable form, but also that his infinite mind and our finite minds have some important connection, that we actually matter in the scheme of things, and that in fact, our own godlike powers are proof of something that was claimed by the old religions at the start.

所以，上帝按照自己的形象创造了人。

So God created man in his own image.

上帝按照自己的形象创造了他。

In the image of God, he created him.

好吧。

Alright.

好吧，我要把彼得·蒂尔的胳膊扯下来，把他关进决斗箱里，然后用一只胳膊去打罗斯·多萨特的脸，之后我们稍作休息，来点《无端之谈》。

Well, I'm gonna rip Peter Thiel's arms off and put him in a dueling box so I can punch Ross Douthat in the face with one of And those we're gonna take a quick break for some Apropos of Nothing.

因此，我们不得不得出结论：霸权主义的经济理论不利于共同繁荣。

Which is why we're forced to conclude that hegemonic economic theory is unprincipled for mutual thriving.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我讲完了。

I rest.

谢谢您，恩赖特先生。

Thank you, mister Enwright.

好的。

Alright.

博斯尼克先生，您有十分钟时间。

Mister Bosnick, you have ten minutes.

好的。

Okay.

我觉得钱就是那些蓝色的棉絮巧克力球。

So I think money is those blue lint chocolate balls.

所以如果你仔细想想，这些东西对每个人来说都太少了。

So if you think about it, there's like way too few of them for everybody.

抱歉。

Sorry.

什么？

What?

恩赖特先生，请。

Mister Enwright, please.

不。

No.

抱歉。

Sorry.

他刚说他认为钱是一种巧克力球？

He just said that he thinks money is a chocolate ball?

就是那个 lint 公司的小蓝色球？

The little blue ones from the lint company?

不是。

No.

这算不算在我的时间里？

Know Does this count against my time?

不算。

No.

不算。

No.

不算的。

It doesn't.

恩赖特先生，提问环节会在最后进行。

Mister Enwright, there will be time for questions at the end.

请让您的对手发言。

Please let your opponent speak.

对。

Right.

这只是关于经济理论的辩论。

It it's just This is a debate about economic theory.

如果我的对手一开始就装作不懂货币是什么的话

If my opponent is gonna start by pretending not to know what money is

我真的不懂货币是什么。

I don't know what money is.

看来你懂啊。

Guess you do.

我们不能这样讨论这个话题。

We can't debate this topic like this.

那么，你应该在回应中澄清货币是什么，同时驳斥他的观点。

Well, then then you should clarify what money is in your response and also disprove his argument.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

但你看，我没法这么做。

But you see how I can't do that.

对吧？

Right?

我无法在表达自己的观点的同时，去驳斥无穷多的错误说法。

I can't disprove an infinite number of untrue things while making my own point.

在我看来，你是个糟糕的辩手。

Sounds like you're a bad debater to me.

什么？

Sorry?

是的。

Yes.

您，观众席上的那位先生。

You, sir, in the audience.

我也希望你能以一种让我感觉良好的方式表达你的观点。

I would also like you to make your point in a way that makes me feel good.

抱歉。

Sorry.

什么？

What?

是的。

Yeah.

只是，你知道的，当你阐述你的观点时，如果你能以一种不让我感到糟糕或愚蠢的方式表达，那就非常重要了。

It's just, you know, when you're explaining your position, if you could do it in a way that doesn't make me feel bad or stupid, that's just very important.

为什么这很重要？

Why is that important?

嗯，如果它让人感觉不好，我就不会相信它。

Well, if it doesn't it doesn't feel good, I won't believe it.

为什么？

Why?

你为什么不在乎事情的真假？

Why don't you care what things are true?

抱歉。

Sorry.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我把钱和我身份中不可改变且被压迫的部分联系在一起。

I relate money to immutable and persecuted parts of my identity.

我能把它想成巧克力吗？

Can I think it's chocolate?

显然，可以。

Obviously, yes.

没关系。

That's fine.

不行。

No.

当然。

Of course.

不行。

No.

做不到。

Can't.

你凭什么能做那件事？

Why would you be able to do that?

哇。

Wow.

现在看来，你似乎站在迫害的一方。

Sure seems like you're on the side of persecution right now.

我现在也有这种感觉。

I also feel that way now.

他们的东西算在我的时间里吗？

Does their stuff count against my time?

我还有很多

I still have a lot

要说。

to say.

好吧。

Okay.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我放弃了。

I give up.

太好了。

Yay.

我赢了。

I win.

钱现在变成巧克力了。

Money is chocolate now.

是的。

Yes.

就是这样运作的。

That is how it works.

我非常讨厌你们所有人。

I hate you all so much.

我一直都知道那是巧克力。

I knew it was chocolate this whole time.

我对这件事感觉很好。

I feel good about it.

我把那栋楼烧了。

I burned the building down.

我们回来了。

And we're back.

我带了一个装满血淋淋的胳膊残肢的箱子，随时可以开始。

I brought some bloody arm stumps in a box ready to go.

所以我们继续读一些吧。

So let's read some more.

罗斯·道萨特，接下来是什么？

Ross Douthat, what's next?

好吧。

Alright.

好吧，我们来谈堕胎吧，各位。

Well, let's do abortion, guys.

这个稍微老一点。

This one's a little bit older.

重提这个话题真让人难过。

This is a sad one to revisit.

这个是2021年11月30日的，我到现在还气愤不已。

This one is from 11/30/2021, and I'm still pissed off about it.

它叫《反对堕胎案》。

It's called the case against abortion.

哦，我太兴奋了，想知道这次我们又要假装不知道什么。

Oh, I'm so excited to hear what we're pretending not to know this time.

关于美国的堕胎辩论，一个引人注目的特点是，堕胎本身实际上很少被真正讨论。

A striking thing about the American abortion debate is how little abortion itself is actually debated.

这些问题的敏感性和私密性，以及许多美国人的复杂情绪，使得大多数政客甚至大多数评论员都不太愿意谈论这些事。

The sensitivity and intimacy of the issues, the mixed feelings of so many Americans means that most politicians and even most pundits really don't like to talk shit.

好的。

Okay.

现在我想起来，

Now that I think about

这对我来说是全新的，

it, this is brand new

对我来说是全新的。

to me.

那是原住民一代。

It was the aboriginal generation.

让我们来看看这意味着什么。

Let let's find out what that means.

我等不及了。

I can't wait.

两极分化的思维习惯，以及认为对方总是怀着隐藏动机或恶意的假设，使得指责虚伪或纯粹邪恶比直接回应支持或反对堕胎的论点更为普遍。

The mental habits of polarization, the assumptions that the other side is always acting with hidden motives or in bad faith mean that accusations of hypocrisy or simple evil are more commonplace than direct engagement with the pro choice or pro life arguments.

是的。

Yeah.

当一方明显是邪恶的时候，这种现象往往会发生在争论中，罗斯。

It tends to happen in an argument where one side is objectively evil, Ross.

那是因为这种情况并不会发生。

That's That's because it's not happens.

这是因为这根本不是关于生育的问题。

It's because it's not about reproduction.

这场争论实际上是关于羞辱那些承担所有生育负担的人。

The argument is really about shaming people who carry all the child creation burden for fucking.

这才是问题的本质。

That's what it is.

好的。

Okay.

好的，塞西尔。

Okay, Cecil.

但作为男人，我只是确认一下，这并不会限制我们的性生活。

But as men, and I'm just checking in here, but this is not gonna limit our fucking.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，我们可以看看那个。

I mean, we can look at That's

那个。

that.

我们可以互相发生关系。

We can fuck each other.

是的。

Yes.

我们

We

可以。

can.

最高法院在堕胎政策上过大的角色，意味着最具政治重要性的争论，是由律师们在远离辩论核心的地方，围绕宪法理论展开的。

And Supreme Court's outsized role in abortion policy means that the most politically important arguments are carried on by lawyers arguing constitutional theory at one removed from the real heart of the debate.

露丝·巴德·金斯伯格是否及时退休了。

Whether Ruth Bader Ginsburg retired on time.

你看，辩论的双方都可以责怪女性，伙计们。

See, both sides of the debate can blame women, guys.

哦。

Oh.

但她的邮件。

But her emails.

是的，没错，这额外的四年真的很重要。

Yeah, no, those extra four years really matter.

她本该在那之前就预见到米奇·麦康奈尔会怎么做。

She should've known what Mitch McConnell was gonna do before that.

干得很棒。

Did great work.

当然，是的。

For sure, yeah.

确实应该猜到米奇·麦康奈尔会怎么做。

Definitely should've read Mitch McConnell's mind.

但法院已安排

But with the court set

鲍勃，我们其实还在斗争。

Bob, we're still fighting, actually.

但法院已安排

But with the court set

审理多布斯诉杰克逊妇女健康组织案，天哪。

to hear Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Organization, got you Jesus.

这是对罗伊诉韦德案的直接挑战，似乎让律师处理这些宏观争论，而我们直接讨论事件本身更合适。

A direct challenge to Roe versus Wade, It seems worth letting the lawyers handle the meta arguments and writing about the thing itself.

因此，这篇论文不会提供任何政治或宪法分析。

So this essay will offer no political or constitutional analysis.

它只是试图陈述反堕胎的立场。

It will simply try to state the pro life case.

这就是了。

And here it is.

我看起来像个长着胡子和肘部补丁的胎儿，你不该杀了我。

I look like a fetus with a beard and elbow patches, and you shouldn't be allowed to kill me.

罗斯，诚实地面对你的论点吧。

Ross, just be honest about your argument.

就诚实地面对吧。

Just be honest.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

但希思，罗斯·道萨特说‘你不该杀了我’这个论点太糟糕了。

But Heath, you shouldn't be allowed to kill me is a terrible argument from Ross Douthat.

对吧？

Right?

这家伙根本不该提出这样的论点。

That dude should not make that argument.

不对。

No.

这很公平。

That's fair.

在我们法律体系的核心，有一个承诺，即人类应受到保护，免受致命暴力。

At the core of our legal system, you will find a promise that human beings should be protected from lethal violence.

当然。

Sure

不会的，罗斯。

won't, Ross.

他是个美国人，认为这一承诺由宪法和《独立宣言》以不同方式作出。

He's an American, and he says that that promise is made in different ways by the constitution and the declaration of independence.

它还体现在英国普通法、十诫和《世界人权宣言》中。

It's therein, English common law, the 10 commandments, and the universal declaration of human rights.

我们争论的是如何执行这一承诺，违反时应施加何种惩罚，以及哪些罪行可能剥夺一个人的生命权。

We dispute how the promise should be enforced, what penalties should be involved if it is broken, and what crimes might deprive someone of the right to life.

但基本权利的存在以及不杀人的根本义务，几乎是不可动摇的。

But the existence of the basic right and a fundamental duty not to kill is pretty close to bedrock.

无法否认堕胎是一种杀戮形式。

There is no way to seriously deny that abortion is a form of killing.

实际上，是一大堆。

Well, actually, are bunches.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，大多数人都如此。

There's all the majority of people actually.

这是杀戮，而且很厉害。

It is killing and awesome.

而且在

And at

在科学认知水平较低的时代，人们曾相信胚胎或胎儿在怀孕数月直到所谓的胎动之前，某种意义上是无生命或静止的。

a less advanced stage of scientific understanding, it was possible to believe that an embryo or fetus was somehow inert or vegetative until so called quickening months into pregnancy.

我们现在知道，胚胎不仅仅是一个像精子或卵子那样的潜在细胞，或像皮肤细胞那样的人体组织组成部分。

We now know the embryo is not merely a cell with potential like a sperm or an ovum, or a constituent part of a human tissue like a skin cell.

相反，从受精那一刻起，一个独特的生命体就已形成，

Rather, a distinct human organism comes into existence at conception,

每一个阶段都让你对这句话产生共鸣。

and every stage of pile sounds you to that sentence.

那真是一段美好的回忆。

That was a really nice memoir.

我觉得他知道你会怎么配音。

I think he knew how you were gonna do the voice.

我觉得他

I think he

知道。

knew.

从

From

从婴儿期、童年到中年乃至更久，这都是一个连续的过程，你最初只是一个受精卵。

infancy from infancy and childhood to middle age and beyond, it's part of a single continuous process of the you are just a zygote.

酷。

Cool.

好的。

Okay.

好吧，现在我们已经确认生命始于受孕。

Well, now we've established that life begins at conception.

罗斯会告诉我们，辅助生殖中心的冷冻库里到底有多少人吗？

Is Ross gonna tell us about all the people we have in fridges at IVF centers around the

世界？

world?

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我们要听关于

Are we gonna hear

在视线所及之处，所有那些小婴儿拆解工的事吗？

about all the little baby demolition mans as far as the eye can see?

罗斯，你需要把出生日期调整几个月或几年吗？

Need to correct the birthdays by a couple months or years, Ross?

我们从胚胎学——也就是说，不是从经文或哲学——得知，堕胎杀害了一个独特的智人个体，而在几乎所有其他情境下，这种行为都是法律所禁止的。

We know from embryology, in other words, not scripture or philosophy, that abortion kills a unique member of the species homo sapien, an act that in almost every other context is forbidden by law.

好的。

Okay.

我的意思是，全知的上帝所启示的经文本该提到这一点。

I mean, seems like scripture from the all knowing God would have mentioned that.

但我们却找到了方法去杀死一个受精卵，要么是为了拯救一个完整的人类生命，要么就只是因为觉得杀死受精卵很爽。

But, we figured out how to kill a cum peanut to save a full human peanut or just to kill the cum peanut because it's awesome.

不管怎样，我不在乎。

Either way, I don't care.

与真正的花生不同，我们从不把受精卵的责任归咎于种植者。

Unlike actual peanuts, we never actually blame the cum peanut on the planters.

这意味着，支持堕胎权利的论点本质上是例外主义的，要求搁置在几乎所有其他情况下都普遍适用的原则。

So This means that the affirmative case for abortion rights is inherently exceptionalist, demanding a suspension of a principle that prevails as practically every other case.

这太荒谬了。

That's so ridiculous.

但这并不自动构成对它的反驳。

This does not automatically tell against it.

例外和规则一样，都是法律的一部分，但这意味着选择派有责任证明，为何在这一特殊情况下，剥夺另一条人类生命是可以接受的，甚至是一种受保护的权利。

Exceptions as well as the rules are part of law, but it means that there is a burden of proof on the pro choice side to explain why in this case, taking another human life is acceptable, indeed, a protected brain itself.

可惜他读到‘生命’就停下了，没继续读到‘自由’或‘追求幸福’。

It's too bad he stopped reading that sentence at life and didn't get to the liberty or pursuit of happiness.

否则，他

Otherwise, he

就无法向自己解释清楚。

wouldn't be able to explain it to himself.

但

But

他可以。

He can.

这会省去很多麻烦。

It'll save a lot of trouble.

通过找出某种特质，使未出生者在本质上不同于其他所有形式的人类生命——无论是成人、婴儿还是老年人——来跨越这一门槛。

One way to clear this threshold would be to identify some quality that makes the unborn different in kind from all other forms of human life, adult, infant, geriatric.

你需要一个论点，承认胚胎是一个独立的人类有机体，但又能合理地区分‘人类有机体’与‘人类个体’，即你排除在法律保护之外的未出生生命与其余人类之间的区别。

You need an argument that acknowledges that the embryo is a distinct human organism, but draws a credible distinction between human organisms and human persons, between the unborn lives you've excluded from the laws of protection and the rest of the human race.

精液是别人身体的一部分？

The cum peanut is part of someone else's body?

我们完了吗？

Are we done?

呼吸这

Breathe the

恶魔乐队，宝贝。

demonition band, baby.

罗斯，你能做到的。

Ross, you can do it.

为那个监狱深呼吸，罗斯。

Breathe up for that prison, Ross.

好的。

Okay.

罗斯，再说一遍，如果胎儿被流产，只要他们的身体再大一点，几乎都符合器官捐献者的条件，伙计。

Ross, again, when aborted, fetuses would all pretty much qualify as organ donors if their bodies were just bigger, man.

它们并不符合我们所使用的生命标准。

They aren't alive by the same standards we use.

我们会给爷爷拔掉呼吸机。

We pull the plug on grandpa.

这并不难。

It's not hard.

我们将会逐渐达到那个地步。

We're gonna sort of get there.

在这种支持选择的论点中，理论上，人格通常与受孕后很久才获得的某种特性相关联。

In this kind of pro choice argument, in theory, personhood is often associated with some property that's acquired well after conception.

认知、理性、自我意识、在子宫外生存的能力，以及‘人类生命存在于子宫内，但人类人格在之后才发展’这一观点，与许多人看到极早期胚胎照片时的直觉反应非常契合。

Cognition, reason, self awareness, the capacity to survive outside of the womb, and the version of this idea that human life is there in utero, but human personhood develops later fits intuitively with how many people react to a photo of extremely early embryo.

它看起来不像人，对吧？

It doesn't look human, does it?

然而，对于第二孕期的胎儿，其与新生儿的外形相似性则更加明显。

The less though to a second trimester fetus, where the physical resemblance to a newborn is more palpable.

顺便说一下，罗斯，最后一个观点是关于把别人的身体当公寓用。

For the record, Ross, it's the last one about using another person's body as a condo.

如果真是因为这个理由，我早在本集前半段就流产了。

If it were about that reason, I would have aborted you in the first half of the episode.

你明白吧，如果真是这个原因的话。

You understand that, right, if that's what it was.

我的意思是，他真的在说，你知道，我想我们潜意识里都明白我在胡说八道，对吧？

I mean, is he really arguing here that, you know, I guess we do intuitively understand I'm full of shit, don't we?

他是这么说的。

He is.

对。

Yes.

但问题是，我看起来可不像一粒精液花生。

But the problem with this is I do not look like a cum peanut.

这很难。

It's hard

要明确指出，究竟是哪种特性使得未出生者被排除在‘杀害人类是错误的’这一范畴之外。

to identify exactly what property is supposed to do the work of excluding the unborn from the ranks of humans whom it is wrong to kill.

如果完全的人格性以推理能力或自我意识为基础，那么许多成年人类在生命中的某个阶段都会缺乏或丧失这种能力。

If full personhood is somehow rooted in reasoning capacity or self consciousness, then all manner of adult human beings lack it or lose it at some point or another in their life.

如果生存能力和自我导向能力是必需的，那么每个婴儿都将不具备人格性。

If the capacity for survival and self direction is essential, then every infant would lack personhood.

更不用说那些没有极端医疗干预就无法存活的早产儿，但人们正确地认为他们同样具有人性。

To say nothing of the premature babies that are unviable without extreme medical interventions, but regarded rightly as no less human for all of that.

酷。

Cool.

好吧。

Alright.

所以现在他要讨论第三个观点，也就是我们真正的论点。

So now he's gonna address the third one, which is our actual argument.

对吧？

Right?

在最严格的意义上，这个生物体不是人。不。

At its most rigorous, this organism but not person No.

还在讲第二点。

Still doing two.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yep.

试图确定某种神经发育阶段，据称这一阶段标志着人格的出现，这相当于生命末期脑死亡的逆向过程。

Seek to identify some stage of neurological development that supposedly marks personhood's arrival, a transition equivalent in reverse to brain death at the end of life.

但即使抛开确定这一时间点所涉及的实际困难，我们在脑死亡时划定法律界限，是因为它被理解为不可逆转的。

But even setting aside the practical difficulties involved in identifying this point, we draw a legal line at brain death because it's understood to be irreversible.

人类生物体健康功能永远无法恢复的时刻。

The moment at which the human organism's healthy functions can never be restored.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我能不能直接否决这个前提，也就是整个观点？

Can I just reject the premise of, like, well, the whole thing?

是的。

Yes.

我之前忘了提这一点。

Like, I forgot to do it earlier.

只要我不说那句话，我就否决它。

Just all whenever I'm not saying that, I reject it.

当然可以。

So sure.

已记录在案。

Duly noted.

这显然不适用于处于高级脑功能临界点的胚胎；如果你知道一个脑死亡但身体其他方面健康的人会在两周后自发恢复意识，那么每个人都会理解，照护者有义务让这些过程自然进行。

This is obviously not the case for an embryo on the cusp of higher brain functioning, and if you knew that a brain dead but otherwise physically healthy person would spontaneously regain consciousness in two weeks, everybody would understand that the caregivers had an obligation to let those processes play out.

或者应该说，几乎每个人都会这么认为。

Or almost everyone, I should say.

确实有一些严谨的人，他们沿着胎儿非人格化的逻辑推导出令人反感的结论。

There are true rigorous who follow the logic of fetal non personhood towards repugnant conclusions.

例如，哲学家彼得·辛格曾主张，我们应该允许对严重残疾的新生儿实施安乐死。

For instance, that we ought to permit the euthanizing of severely disabled newborns as the philosopher Peter Singer has argued.

好的。

Okay.

彼得·辛格，就是埃利道德观的来源。

Peter Singer, the source of Eli's morale.

是的，那

Yeah, that

这对我们来说是个相当不错的角度。

is a pretty good angle for us.

就这么办。

Do that.

我现在在听。

I am listening now.

我重新加入进来了。

I'm back on board.

这就是为什么反对堕胎的人一直警告堕胎会导致滑坡效应。

This is why abortion opponents have warned of a slippery slope for abortion.

从堕胎滑向杀婴和自愿安乐死的滑坡效应。

A slippery slope from abortion to infanticide and voluntary euthanasia.

这是纯粹的逻辑。

That's pure logic.

认为未出生的人类不属于人类个体的立场，确实可能导向这种结果。

The position that unborn human beings aren't human persons can really tend that way.

但值得肯定的是，只有极少数支持堕胎权的人愿意如此无情地保持一致。

But to their credit, only a small minority of abortion rights supporters are willing to be so ruthlessly consistent.

相反，大多数支持选择权的人更愿意让‘人格’的定义保持模糊，并将其与支持堕胎权的第二个有力论点结合起来。

Instead, most people on the pro choice side are content to leave their rules of person a little hazy and combine them with the second potent argument for abortion rights.

也就是说，无论未出生的人类生物在道德上具有何种地位，它们都不能享有生命权，因为那样会剥夺女性太多的权益。

Namely, that regardless of the precise moral status of unborn human organisms, they cannot enjoy a legal right to life because that would strip away too many rights from women.

嘿。

Hey.

你找到了。

You found it.

你花了整整一千句话，才得出那个你打算拒绝的结论。

It only took you like a thousand words to get to the answer that you're gonna reject.

在这一观点下，一个没有合法堕胎权的世界实际上限制了女性。

A world without legal abortion in this view effectively confines women.

女性沦为二等公民，抱负受限，隐私被侵犯，身体被控制，追求完全平等的主张沦为谎言。

The second class citizen tip this their ambitions limited, their privacy compromised, their bodies crypted, their claims to full equality a lie.

是的。

Yep.

差不多就是这样。

That's about yeah.

不用记录了。

No notes.

实际上，也没有笔记。

Actually, no notes.

这类论点通常暗示，出生是定义法律人格的最重要里程碑，但这并不是因为孩子自身发生了什么，而是因为此时他的生命不再对母亲造成如此剧烈的影响。

These kind of arguments often imply that birth is the most relevant milestone for defining legal personhood, not because of anything that happens to the child, but because it's the moment when his life ceases to impinge so dramatically on its mother.

这些主张中蕴含着一种强有力的女性主义立场。

There is a powerful case for some kind of feminism embedded in these claims.

问题是，这种立场是否必须依赖于堕胎本身。

The question is whether that case requires abortion itself.

哦，罗斯是要提出时间旅行吗？

Oh, is Ross about to suggest time travel?

某些本应为男女共同享有的权益无法实现。

Certain goods that should be common to men and women cannot be achieved.

这是真的。

It's true.

如果法律只是简单地宣布性别平等，却不考虑怀孕给女性带来的不成比例的负担。

If the law simply declared the sex as equal without giving weight to the disproportionate burdens that pregnancy imposes on women.

好的。

K.

在这里，我确信我们会看到他大力倡导全民基本收入、托儿服务和医疗保障，而我将会

And here, I'm sure we'll see him strongly advocate a position for universal basic income, childcare, and health care, and I'll

屏住呼吸。

hold my breath.

屏住

Hold

呼吸。

my breath.

正义需要的是一名刺客。

Justice requires And assassin.

通过传统和现代的手段分配这些负担，要求男性在法律和经济上对所有他们所生育的孩子负责，并在母亲身份的每个阶段提供更强有力的经济和社会支持。

Attributing those burdens through means both traditional and modern, holding men legally and financially responsible for all the children that they father and providing stronger financial and social support for motherhood at every stage.

你听到有人说，女性要为强奸所生的孩子负责吗？

You hear that women bearing the children of their rapists?

罗斯想确保你获得你应得的来自强奸犯的抚养费。

Ross wants to make sure you get the child support from your

你所应得的来自强奸犯的抚养费。

rapist that you deserve.

天哪。

Jesus Christ.

他把生育宣传得像一场针对间皮瘤的集体诉讼广告。

He's pitching childbirth like a class action mesothelioma ad.

但这种为女性争取的正义，是否要求对未出生者的声音置之不理？

But does this kind of justice for women require legal indifference to the claims of the unborn?

为了一个群体的人权平等，真的必须以对另一个完全无声的群体施加法律暴力为代价吗？

Is it really necessary to found equality for one group of human beings on legal violence towards another entirely voiceless group?

我有一半的DNA来自一个强奸犯。

Half my DNA is from a rapist.

求你杀了我吧。

Please kill me.

男生们有听到这些吗？

Do guys hear any of that?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得那是一个完全无声的‘是的’。

I think that was an entirely voiceless Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

在表达某种观点。

Saying something.

我们有一些实际证据表明，答案是否定的。

We have a certain amount of practical evidence that suggests the answer is no.

例如，从20世纪80年代初到后来的二月，美国的堕胎率下降了一半以上。

Consider for instance, that between the early nineteen eighties and the later February, the abortion rate in The United States fell by more than half.

这一下降的原因存在争议，但似乎可以合理地认为，它反映了文化变迁、避孕措施使用增加以及反堕胎法律策略的影响——这些策略使堕胎在许多州变得不那么可行，正如支持选择权人士经常所哀叹的那样。

The reasons for this decline are disputed, but it seems reasonable to assume that it reflects a mix of cultural change, increased contraceptive use, and the effects of anti abortion legal strategies, which have made abortion somewhat less available in many states as pro choice advocates often lament.

好的。

Okay.

所以明确一下，那些对刚才那番话感到困惑的人，答案完全是中间那个。

So to be clear, again, those of you sort of lost in the sauce with that language, it's entirely the middle one.

说它是第一个或第三个，就足以让你烧掉你的《纽约时报》订阅，并把它扔进他们办公室的窗户里。

And saying that it's one or three are enough reason to light your New York Times subscription on fire and throw it through the window of their offices just so

那必须是这样。

that It has to be.

对吧？

Right?

因为在那段时间里，出生率并没有上升。

Because the birth rate didn't go up during that time.

它必须是这样。

It literally has to be.

如果堕胎与女性平等之间存在根本且不可避免的关系，那么你应当预期，随着堕胎率下降、堕胎获取渠道受限，女性在教育和职场中的参与度也会普遍下降。

If there was an integral and unavoidable relationship between abortion and female equality, you would expect these declines fewer abortions, diminished abortion access to track with a general female retreat from education and the workplace.

什么？

What?

不。

No.

为什么？

Why?

不。

No.

不。

No.

你不会的。

You wouldn't.

你会期待那样吗？

Would you expect that?

根本没发生过这样的事。

No such thing has happened.

继续。

Moving on.

继续。

Moving on.

这种事情从未发生过。

No such thing has happened.

无论是以教育程度、管理与专业职位、家庭经济支柱地位，甚至政治职位的持有情况来看，都是如此。

That's whether measured by educational attainment, managerial and professional positions, breadwinner status or even political office holding.

在反堕胎运动略有取得进展的同一个美国，女性的地位已经提升了。

The status of women has risen in the same America where the pro life movement has modestly gained grounds.

根本没有任何其他因素。

And there are no other factors at all.

关于

Of

当然，女性的进步本可以更快一些。

course, it's always been possible that female advancement could have been even more rapid.

如果反堕胎运动不存在，性别平等将更加充分和彻底地实现。

The equality of the sex is more fully and perfectly established if the pro life movement did not exist.

当然，在女性个人的生命轨迹中，选择堕胎而非生孩子可能带来经济和教育上的优势。

Certainly, in the individual female life trajectory, having an abortion rather than a baby can offer economic and educational advantages.

但如果你生了一个天才宝宝呢？

But what if you give birth to a baby genius?

那可能会让你赚一大笔钱。

That would probably make you a ton of money.

实际上，去搞到那个。

Actually going get that.

电影。

Movies.

它会搞到那个。

It's going get that.

女性的生活。

Female life.

罗斯知道其实每个人只有一条人生轨迹吗？

Ross know that all people actually have only one personal life trajectory?

这不过是一堆人生轨迹的集合，该死的。

It's all just a collection of life trajectories, motherfucker.

是的。

Yeah.

不，他接着说。

No, he goes on.

但从集体层面来看，将堕胎作为应对意外怀孕的默认方案，实际上可能抑制了其他能让美国生活对女性更友好的适应方式。

On a collective level, though, it's also possible that the default to abortion as the solution to an unplanned pregnancy actually discourages other adaptations that would make American life friendlier to women.

正如艾丽卡

As Erica

总想用一种方式解决所有问题，伙计们。

to solve things with one thing, guys.

你在说什么？

What are you talking about?

正如埃莉卡·巴卡奇最近在《国家评论》上所写，如果我们社会假设'堕胎使女性能够参与职场'，那么企业可能会更倾向于选择堕胎作为默认方案，而不是提供更实质性的支持，比如灵活的工作时间或更高的兼职薪酬，这背后是依赖堕胎权的逻辑。

As Erica Bakayachi wrote recently in the National Review, if our society assumes that, quote, abortion is what enables women to participate in the workplace, end quote, then corporations may prefer the abortion default to more substantial accommodations, like flexible work schedules and better pay for part time jobs, relying on the logic of abortion rights.

换句话说，这成了拒绝适应生育和母职现实的借口。

In other words, as a reason not to adapt to the realities of childbearing and motherhood.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

如果我对美国企业界有什么了解的话，它们其实很愿意对女性更慷慨，但堕胎的存在恰恰阻碍了这种可能性。

If I know anything about corporate America, they would love to be more generous to women, but abortion just does not allow it.

她是在由威廉·巴克利 Jr. 创办的女权主义杂志《国家评论》上撰文的。

She wrote in the feminist magazine founded by William Buckley Junior on the National Review.

对。

Yeah.

这简直是自查尔斯·默里假装写了一本关于黑人有多笨的书、却打着全民基本收入的幌子以来，你这偏见言论最韦斯利式的回应。

Is the most Weasley take for your bigoted bullshit since Charles Murray pretended he wrote a book about how dumb black people are in the name of universal basic income.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

这是

It's

别担心，各位。

like, don't worry, guys.

六个月带薪产假就藏在这项全国性的堕胎禁令之下。

Six months paid maternity leave is hidden right here under this national abortion ban.

我只需要

All I

比如说，是的。

have to do is, like, yes.

是的。

Yes.

而且嘿，如果存在

And hey, if there's

性别不平等是个问题？那就让资本主义来解决吧，它总能搞定。

a problem inequality for the sexes, well, just let capitalism That sort it always works.

它在其他事情上做得真好。

It does such

非常出色。

a great job for other stuff.

至少如此。

At the very least.

看不见的手对堕胎也管用。

Invisible hand for abortion works too.

不，不行。

Nope.

早知道该去享受一下看不见的手的服务，

Should've got an invisible hand job,

现在就得身处这种境地了。

and then now have to be in the spot.

不会

Wouldn't

至少，我认为对过去四十年模式的诚实审视揭示了多种为女性提供更多机会、实现平等与尊严的途径，以及多种成为女权主义者的路径。

at the very least, I think an honest look at the patterns of the past four decades reveals a multitude of different ways to offer women greater opportunities, a multitude of pathways to equality and dignity, a multitude of ways to be a feminist.

换句话说，这些方式无需将理想主义的愿景与每年数十万起暴力行为捆绑在一起。

In other words, that do not require yoking its idealistic vision to hundreds of thousands of acts of violence every year.

想想每年以所谓流产为名而未被起诉的数百万起儿童忽视案件。

Think of the millions of child neglect cases that go unprosecuted every year in the name of so called miscarriages.

但同样真实的是，所有这些政策都无法减轻生育带来的不可转移的负担。

It's also true though that nothing in all of that multitude of policies will lift the irreducible burdens of childbearing.

那些生物学上的现实，根本无法转移给父亲、政府或养父母。

The biological realities that simply cannot be redistributed to fathers, governments, or adoptive parents.

在这方面，支持选择权的一方部分观点是正确的。

And here too, a portion of the pro choice argument is correct.

怀孕的独特性意味着，国家或社会对女性提出的要求必须有所限制，法律体系也应尊重一片不可侵犯的隐私空间。

The unique nature of pregnancy means that there has to be some limit on what the state or society asks of women and some zone of privacy that the legal system fears to tread.

但这不算数，因为我在开头并没有进行任何法律分析。

But that doesn't count, because I called no legal analysis at the beginning.

所以即使我故意唱反调来反驳自己，

So even when I played devil's advocate against myself,

这也不算数。

that doesn't count.

我喜欢他带我们走的这个方向。

I love where he's going with us.

这是最明智的反堕胎立法（是的，亲生命立法并不总是明智的）的一个原因：它惩罚的是第三方提供堕胎服务，而不是起诉寻求堕胎的女性。

This is one reason the wisest anti abortion legislation, and yes, pro life legislation is not always wise, criminalizes the provision of abortion by third parties rather than prosecuting the women who seek one.

这就是为什么当反堕胎法律导致对孕妇进行调查时，会被合理地视为侵犯隐私和虐待行为。

It's why anti abortion laws are rightly deemed invasive and abusive when they lead to the investigation of the sit

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

来了。

Here we go.

好了，伙计，我们开始吧。

Here Here we go, buddy.

他们为什么

Why did they

会导致对疑似流产的调查呢？

lead to the investigation of suspicious seeming miscarriages?

我以为是自然流产。

I thought it was miscarriage.

太惊人了。

Amazing.

这就是为什么普遍的法律保护原则崩溃了。

It's why the general principle of She legal fell.

保护

Protection

停下。

Stop.

为什么

Why was

那是对的吗？

that right?

这很好。

That's good.

确保我不要做

Make sure I don't do

下一个。

a future one.

他会把这一点应用到每一个案例中。

He's gonna put that into every one of them.

对吧？

Right?

这就是为什么在极端情况和极端负担下，欧洲对人类生命法律保护的一般原则可能或必须可以理解地让步。

It's why the general principle of legal protections for human life in euro may or must understandably give way in extreme cases, extreme burdens.

因强奸而受孕，或危及生命的妊娠。

The conception by rape, the life threatening pregnancy.

然而，与此同时，选择权一方对普通妊娠负担的强调，可能脱离了真实人类体验世界的方式。

At the same time though, the pro choice stress on the burden of the ordinary pregnancy can become detached from the way that actual human beings experience the world.

在一项著名的思想实验中，哲学家朱迪斯·贾维斯·汤普森曾将意外怀孕比作醒来时发现一位著名的小提琴家与你的身体相连，如果在九个月前断开连接，他就会死亡。

In a famous thought experiment, the philosopher Judith Jarvis Thompson once analogized an unplanned pregnancy to waking up with a famous violinist hooked up to your body, who will die if he's disconnected before nine months have passed.

这是一个生动的科幻意象，

It's a vivid science fiction image,

但但一个

but one that but one

与它所描述的真实情况仅有遥远的相似之处。

that only distantly resembles the actual thing it describes.

一种通常源于自由选择的性行为的新生命，一种如果物质条件改变，本可能被渴望和庆祝的生育体验，而终止这种新生命必须通过致命暴力和剥夺权利才能实现。

A new life that usually exists because of a freely chosen sexual encounter, a reproductive experience that if material circumstances were changed, might be desired and celebrated, a disconnection of the new life that cannot happen without lethal violence and evictimhood.

不是某个陌生的成年人，而是这位女性的孩子。

Not some adult stranger, but the woman's child.

我不理解朱迪斯·汤普森关于身体自主权的隐喻。

I don't understand Judith Thompson's metaphor about bodily autonomy.

我用十足的聪明话说了一句很聪明的话。

I said smartly with much smartness.

也许我在这里把话说得乱七八糟一点，就没人会注意到我真正想说的是：为什么不干脆夹紧双腿呢？

Maybe if I jumble my word salad a bit here, no one will notice that what I really just said was, why not just keep your legs closed?

人们可以接受支持选择的逻辑，只要它要求女性拥有隐私空间，并警惕潜在的滥用，而不必将这一逻辑彻底推演至普遍拥有终止未出生人类生命权利的地步。

One can accept pro choice logic that in so far as it demands a sphere of female privacy and warrants constantly against the potential for abuse without following the logic all the way to a general right to abort an unborn human life.

好的。

Okay.

你知道吗？

You know what?

我跟你说吧。

Tell you what.

如果我们听到有莫扎特的小提琴协奏曲传过来，我们就说一声。

If we hear a Mozart violin concerto coming down the pipe, we'll call it.

可能还是会这么做，但你知道，我们会在一半的时候叫停。

Still probably do it, but like, know, we'll call it for half

一秒钟。

a second.

没错。

Exactly.

但我们会等到协奏曲结束。

But we'll wait until the concerto's over.

事实上，大多数人处理其他情境中的类似论点时都是这样做的。

Indeed, this is how most people approach similar arguments in other contexts.

为了隐私和公民自由，我们对司法系统如何执法和监禁施加限制，并可能赞扬那些试图遏制该系统明显滥用行为的活动家。

In the name of privacy and civil liberties, we impose limits on how the justice system polices and imprisons, and we may celebrate activists who try to curb that system's manifest abuses.

但我们并不——当然，有一些无政府主义例外——认为我们应该取消对人们财产或生命的全部法律保护。

But we don't, with yes, some anarchist exceptions, believe that we should remove all legal protection for people's property or lives.

无论后果如何，取消这种保护都是不公正的。

That removal of protection would be unjust no matter what its consequences.

但事实上，我们知道这些后果将包括更多的犯罪、更多的暴力和更多的死亡。

But in reality, we know that those consequences would include more crime, more violence, and more death.

而反堕胎一方在被问到为什么我们不能满足于做所有其他可能降低堕胎率的事情、而把法律保护排除在外时，也可以给出同样的回答。

And the anti abortion side can give the same answer when it's asked why we can't be content with doing all the other things that may reduce abortion rates and leaving legal protection out of it.

因为尽管法律限制不足以彻底终止堕胎，但它们确实可能保护许多未出生的人类生命。

Because while legal restrictions aren't sufficient to end abortion, there really are a lot of unborn human lives they might protect.

想想今年德克萨斯州实施了禁止六周后堕胎的禁令时，天啊。

Consider that when the state of Texas put into effect this year a ban on post abortions Oh, man.

大约六周后，

After about six weeks,

该州支持的那位人士并没有口吃。

the state supports doesn't have a lisp.

他只是给人一种来自Zini的那种感觉。

He just has the vibes of the zini from from Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是现实中正在发生的事。

That's what's happening in real life.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

州政府支持的是啊。

The state supports an yeah.

不。

No.

我不是在嘲笑真正的语言障碍。

I'm not making fun of an actual speech impediment.

我只是在嘲笑一个混蛋。

I'm just making fun of an asshole.

在这篇论文开头的四十七分钟前，我们就做出了选择，而我们现在正为此付出代价。

Made a choice at the beginning of this essay forty seven minutes ago, and we are living for it.