248 - Ryan Kulp，TRMNL创始人

它叫Terminal。

It's called Terminal.

t r m l这几个字母，我们没能拿到带元音的域名，所以就按创业公司的惯例处理了。

And t r m and l, we couldn't get the domain with the vowels, so did the startup thing.

而且，它的设计初衷是帮助你集中注意力。

And, it's designed to help you focus.

这是一款电子墨水显示屏。

It's an e ink display.

可以放在你的办公桌上。

It sits on your desk.

也能贴在冰箱上，我们还支持多种插件连接。

You can put it on your refrigerator, and we connect with a bunch of different plugins.

比如，如果你想查看Google日历，我们会显示你的日程安排。

So, you know, if if you wanna see your Google Calendar, we'll show you your schedule.

如果你想查看CRM系统中的销售漏斗数据，我们也能展示。

If you wanna see your sales pipeline for closed CRM, we'll show you that.

如果你想查看Google Analytics数据，我们也能展示给你。

If you wanna see Google Analytics data, we'll show you that.

如果你想构建自己的KPI仪表盘，或是连接——比如你的智能家居助手，我们都能实现。

If you wanna build your own KPI dashboard or connect with, you know, your your home assistant, we can do that.

于是今年夏天我们在Kickstarter上发起了一项众筹活动，进展非常顺利。

And so we launched a a crowdfunding campaign this summer on Kickstarter, and that went very well.

我们上周刚开始发货。

And we've just begun fulfilling last week.

所以我想今天聊完后，我还要组装50台设备送去邮局。

So I think actually today after our chat, I'm gonna be assembling 50 more devices to go take to the post office.

哇，真厉害。

So Oh, wow.

整个过程充满乐趣。

It's been it's it's been a lot of fun.

我们是用Rails开发的，但屏幕是800x480分辨率的电子墨水屏。

But, you know, we're building it in Rails, but yet there's e ink and 800 by four eighty pixel ratio.

所以我们必须创新。

So we have to innovate.

我们称之为逆向创新。

We're calling it innovating backwards.

我们正在研究八十年代末九十年代初的人们是如何制作视频游戏的，那时候屏幕分辨率很低，而且你需要没有抗锯齿的字体，因为在像素显示屏上抗锯齿看起来很糟糕。

We're trying to figure out how did people make video games in the late eighties, early nineties when their the screens were low resolution and when you needed fonts that don't have anti aliasing because that looks horrible on a pixel display.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们就在想，如何调整我们的Linux服务器配置，让它在用Puppeteer浏览器截图时忽略带有抗锯齿的字体。

So we're like, how can we adjust our our our Linux server configs so that it ignores fonts with anti aliasing when it takes screenshots with our Puppeteer browser?

所以让现代机器以过去更简单的方式工作，这真的很酷。

So it's really cool to have to kind of bend modern machines to work the way machines worked when they were dumber.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这某种程度上算是我们的知识产权吧，但同时也让它成为一个有趣的挑战。

And it's kind of part of our IP, I suppose, but it's also what makes it, you know, a fun challenge.

所以你知道，我们已经卖出了近2000台设备

And so, you know, we've sold almost 2,000 devices

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

在过去几个月里，我们现在正陆续发货给客户，看看评价如何。

In the last few months, and, we're getting them all out to customers now, and we'll see how the reviews are.

要知道，我听人说过：谁都能把东西卖出去一次。

You know, anyone can sell anything once is something I heard one time from someone.

有意思。

Interesting.

你能反复销售并获得好评吗？

Can you sell it again and again and get the good review?

这才是最终完成那个反馈闭环的方式。

That's how you finally complete that, you know, feedback loop.

这是个好主意、好产品吗？

Is this a good idea, a good product?

是啊。

Yeah.

任何人都能卖一次东西。

Anyone can sell anything once.

这真的很有意思。

That's really interesting.

我确实有过类似的经历。

I've certainly experienced something like that.

你知道，有个著名的曲线形状，初期发布时会有个大高峰。

You know, there's that famous curve shape where you have the initial launch and it's a big spike.

但之后呢，基本上就没什么动静了。

But then after that, it's, like, kinda crickets from then on.

没错。

Yes.

然后问题就来了，接下来该怎么发展呢？

And it's like, where do you take that from there?

是啊。

Yeah.

我敢打赌销售实体商品并实际发货的体验肯定截然不同吧？

And it's I bet it's a really different experience to sell something that's physical and actually ship it?

就是字面意义上的发货，而不仅仅是点击部署。

Like, you know, literally ship it, not just hit deploy.

确实非常不同，不仅因为所有环节都变慢了。

It is very different, not only because, you know, everything moves slower.

对吧？

Right?

我们在等待...要知道我们去年12月就有了可工作的原型，但直到今年6月才正式推出。

We're waiting on you know, we had a working prototype December of of last year, but we didn't launch until the June.

对吧？

Right?

那么这六个月里发生了什么？

So what happened in those six months?

嗯，我们在等货物通过海运抵达。

Well, we're waiting for stuff to come on a boat.

我们在等样品。

We're waiting for samples.

我们在等注塑模具再稍微调整一下，以便塑料和我们使用的其他材料能完美填充，让各个部件能严丝合缝地组装在一起。

We're waiting for our injection mold to get scraped out just a little bit more to to fit to fill with plastic and whatever materials we're using to look just right, to to click together just right.

而在软件世界里，你完全不需要考虑这些。

And in the software world, you don't have to think about any of that.

你明白吗？

You know?

你会收到异常错误提示。

You you get the exception error.

你能看到是哪一行代码出了问题。

You see what line of is broken.

你能看到是哪一列出了问题。

You see what column is broken.

它某种程度上会提示你问题出在哪里。

It kind of gives you hints at why it's broken.

这简直太棒了。

It's incredible.

而在硬件领域，你完全没有这些辅助，而且我认为我们永远也不会有。

And in hardware, you don't have any of that, and I don't think we'll ever have any of that.

我们在硬件方面最接近的工具就是AutoCAD，当然，它也非常出色。

And the closest we have in hardware is, you know, AutoCAD, which, of course, is incredible.

我们所有的AutoCAD设计都使用了Fusion 360。

So we used Fusion three sixty for all of our all of our AutoCAD designs.

但即便如此，你把AutoCAD设计交给工厂，他们会说这里有七个原因说明这个设计不符合机械安全标准。

But still, you take an AutoCAD design and you give it to the factory, and they say, well, here's the seven reasons this isn't machine safe.

明白吗？

You know?

这些就是为什么这个设计行不通的原因。

Here's the reasons why this won't work.

即便你家里有3D打印机，当你设计一个古怪形状时，打印机软件会提示'需要启用支撑结构，因为我们无法凭空打印悬空的L形部件'

And even if you have your own home three d printer, you make a funky shape, and your your three d printer tool says, oh, you're gonna need to enable support because we can't make an l shape, you know, hangover midair.

对吧？

Right?

这道理我明白，但如何把这些限制整合到我的设计中呢？

Well, that makes sense, but how do I incorporate that into my design?

怎样才能做出符合安全标准的设计修改？

How do I make design safe changes?

重申一下，我是软件背景出身，对进入三维领域、分子材料、海外生产、语言障碍这些全新领域实在陌生

And again, I'm a software guy, so I don't know what this entering the third dimension, molecules, materials, working overseas, language barriers, there's so much newness.

所以我现在算是在自问自答了

And so that I guess I'm answering my own question now.

是吧？

Right?

这就是我最近深入研究的方向

This is what I've been going deep on.

也许再过几年，我就能开始帮助那些说'嘿，Ryan'的人了。

And maybe in a few years, maybe I could begin to be helpful to someone who says, hey, Ryan.

我想做一个硬件产品。

I wanna do a hardware product.

我会编程，但其他什么都不懂。

I know how to code, but I don't know anything else.

你能帮我吗？

Could you help me?

也许几年后，我能对他们有点用处。嗯。

Maybe in a few years, I could be somewhat useful to them Mhmm.

通过一篇博客文章、一次咨询会议或几周的顾问服务。

With a blog post or a consult session or a few weeks of advisement.

对吧？

Right?

但现在，我又回到了谦逊的第一天。

But right now, I'm back in the humble day one.

我一无所知，但我很感激身边有一支比我更出色的团队，有耐心的制造商，以及对我们延期交付表示理解的客户。

I don't know anything, but I'm grateful to be surrounded by an awesome team who knows more than me and by great manufacturers who are patient with me and by customers who are accepting of our delays.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以这段经历虽然如此，但非常精彩。

And so that but that's been it's been a blast.

另一个挑战其实不在于硬件本身。

The other the other challenging thing here isn't the hardware per se.

而是商业模式的问题。

It's the business model.

我一直以来都在做SaaS。

So I've been doing SaaS forever.

我曾在多家风投支持的公司工作过。

The I worked at multiple venture backed companies.

它们都是SaaS（软件即服务）。

They're all SaaS.

对吧？

Right?

Techstars、YC（Y Combinator），人人都爱SaaS。

Techstars, YC, everybody loves SaaS.

我最初在SaaS领域做市场，后来学会了编程，又以程序员身份继续从事SaaS。

I worked in SaaS as a marketer, and then I learned to program, so then as a programmer.

但这个新产品Terminal是一次性购买的，却要永久占用我们的服务器资源。

And, but this new product terminal, it's a one time purchase, yet you're hitting our web server forever.

那我们怎么解决这个问题？

So how do we make that work?

对吧？

Right?

我们该如何配置Hetzner服务器？

How do we configure our Hetzner box?

因为Hetzner成了新梗。

Because Hetzner is the new meme.

我觉得，对开发者来说，它就像是初创公司的新宠。

It's the new lacrosse of startup, I think, developers.

问题是，他们花100到150美元买设备，我们怎么让这笔账算得过来？

It's like, how do we make the numbers work where they pay us $100,150 bucks for their device?

理论上，他们可能每五分钟就ping一次我们的服务器，比方说，永远这样下去。

And in theory, they could be pinging our servers every five minutes, let's say, forever.

这种商业模式看起来会是什么样子？

Like, what does that pro form a look like?

每年计算资源成本是3美元还是10美元？

Is that $3 worth of compute per year or ten?

或者说，本来就不该这么高。

Or, you know, it shouldn't be.

对吧？

Right?

但如果设备运行二十年，这20美元的计算资源还值吗？

But is it $20 worth of compute if they run the device for twenty years?

我们能这样宣传吗？

Can we advertise that?

这说得通吗？

Like, does that make sense?

那我们能向他们推销升级服务吗？

So can we upsell them things?

所以现在我正处于开发软件的交叉领域

And so now I'm in this intersection of building software.

是用Rails开发的

It's in Rails.

我已经从模板里删除了所有Stripe支付组件，因为根本不需要SaaS功能

I had ripped out all of my Stripe stack from my boilerplate because there's no SaaS component.

我们通过Shopify销售这些设备，但要同步到我们的网页应用和API，这样Shopify的购买信息就能被设备识别

And then we're selling these devices through Shopify, but then syncing it with our web app and API so that, you know, a Shopify purchase is recognized in by device.

这些都是有趣的挑战，需要思考如何让一家每月从零开始的公司成长起来——这其实是地球上几乎所有公司自诞生之初就必须面对的问题。

And it's it's interesting challenges and figuring out how do you grow a company that starts at zero every month, which, again, this is a question almost all companies in the planet have always had to deal with from the beginning of time.

但作为一个被SaaS宠坏的人，我从未需要考虑这些。

But as a spoiled SaaS person, I never had to think about that.

你明白吗？

You know?

你第一天的收入就是上个月第30天的收入，只需持续交付产品，并希望新增用户能抵消流失。

Your day one revenue was your day 30 revenue of the previous month, and just keep shipping, and, hopefully, your churn is outweighed by, you know, new new awareness.

嗯，所以...

And so Mhmm.

在这里，这些模式完全行不通。

Here, that's all out the window.

我们没有SaaS业务模块。

We have no SaaS component.

这是一次性交易，我们拭目以待。

It's one time purchases, purchases, and we'll see.

这当然会让人提出疑问：如果公司倒闭了怎么办？

And that's, of course, led folks to say, well, what if your company goes to zero?

我的设备会变成砖头吗？

Will my device be bricked?

所以，好吧。

So, okay.

我们当然不希望那样。

We don't want that.

因此我们现在开源了固件。

So now we're we've open sourced our firmware.

我们尽可能多地开源，但不会开源应用核心功能的内核部分。

We've we continue to open source as much as we can without open sourcing the core core, you know, kernel of what the app does.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这完全是一种全新的软件开发方式。

And, you know, it's been totally new new way to build software.

我们有一个仅限开发者加入的Discord群组，邀请了大约650位升级到开发者版本的支持者加入。

We have a developer only Discord that we invited, like, 650 of our backers to who upgraded to the developer edition.

他们正在帮助贡献我们的固件开发。

They're helping contribute to our firmware.

他们贡献想法、API设计和架构方案。

They're contributing ideas, API design, architecture.

说实话，我从未做过这类事情。

You know, I've never done any of that kind of thing.

我以前总是和两三个人一起工作，有人提出想法我们就去实现。

I've I've always worked with, like, two, three, four people, and somebody has an idea and we build it.

现在变成了这种社区驱动的模式，数百人深度参与其中——因为他们购买了设备并希望实现某些功能，而我们必须想办法满足这些需求，同时除了首次购买外无法从他们那里获得更多收入。

Now it's this, like, community driven thing where hundreds of people have skin in the game, right, because they've bought a device and they want it to do certain things, and we have to figure out how to make that possible all while not getting paid from them more than that first time.

我认为如果大多数人开发这种产品，根本卖不出去，因为他们不知道怎么让人知道它的存在。

So I think if most people built this product, nobody would buy it because they wouldn't have a way to to let people know about it.

那你们是怎么做营销让产品真正卖出去的呢？

So how did you market it so that people are actually buying it?

首先我得说我们很幸运。

Well, I'll I'll first say we we got lucky.

你知道，作为一个多年来使用Kickstarter的消费者，我想我们很多人都零零散散支持过一些项目，很酷的小玩意之类的。

We you you know, from using Kickstarter as a consumer myself over the years, I think a lot of us have backed things here and there, cool gadgets, whatever.

可能还有一些艺术类项目，你知道的，实际上得不到什么实物回报，但你就是想支持某人完成那部纪录片或相册之类的创作。

Maybe a couple art things where, you know, you're not really gonna get anything tangible, but you want someone to make that documentary or or make the the photo album kind of thing.

在最坏的情况下，我们很多人可能都经历过被卷款跑路的情况。

We've probably a lot of us have experienced being rug pulled at the worst case.

即使在正常情况下，我们也经历过产品严重延期，发货极晚或质量与宣传不符的情况。

Or even at the normal case, we've experienced extreme delays, products that shipped really late or don't ship with the quality of the renders.

你明白吧？

You know?

所以当我们五六个月前开始准备营销材料时，我们已经有了可运作的产品原型。

And so when we started working on the marketing material, which was just probably five, six months ago, we had, you know, we had the working product.

我列了一个清单，记录我们的Kickstarter众筹活动绝对不能犯的错误。

I started a checklist of what are the things that our Kickstarter or our crowdfunding launch campaign should not do.

它不应该是什么样子？

What should it not look like?

我们应该避免哪些元素？

What elements should we avoid?

首要原则是，在我们确认产品真实存在且能正常运作之前，甚至不要发起众筹——必须确保我能亲手拿到实物。

First and foremost, it was let's not even launch until we know this product exists and works, and I can hold it in my hand.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们上线当天，我已经把设备实物拿在手上了。

So the day we went live, I had devices, like, in my hand.

我们有白色、黑色、透明和半透明款。

And we have white, black, clear, translucent.

还有多种颜色可选。

We have different colors.

这其实是个带点梗的时钟插件。

This is kind of a meme plug in of a clock.

大错特错。

So wrong.

它甚至一天都没对过两次。

It's not even right twice a day.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后这是我去年在GitHub上的贡献记录。

And then here's, like, my GitHub contributions for the last year.

所以我们有了所有这些插件，直到我把它们拿在手里放在桌上，我们才说，好吧。

And so we have all these plug ins, and it wasn't until I had these in my hand on this desk that we said, okay.

让我们开始发布吧。

Let's begin to launch.

因为我不想做一个项目写着预计12个月后才能交付。

Because I don't wanna have a project that says estimated fulfillment twelve months from now.

我觉得这会降低我们的转化率，人们看到后只会翻个白眼说，是啊。

I think that's gonna reduce our conversion rate, and I think people just look at it and roll their eyes and go, yeah.

准备好了就叫我。

Call me when it's ready.

对吧？

Right?

准备好了就叫我，兄弟。

Call me when you're ready, bro.

这些就是其中的一些要素。

And so those are some of the elements.

我们希望它能立即就绪。

We wanted it to be ready immediately.

我还希望功能完整性完全符合我们的承诺。

I also wanted the feature parity to be exactly what we said it was.

你知道的，我们都受够了他们列出20个功能点，结果发布时只实现了3个。

So, you know, we all get sick of them giving 20 bullet points of what the thing does, and then it comes out and does three.

所以我们在这方面必须克制自己。

So we had to hold ourselves back there.

这是主要的准备工作，就是确保产品真实存在，并且我们不会过度承诺。

That was the main prep, was just making sure that the product was real and that we wouldn't overpromise.

但我们做的第二件事——我真的很高兴我们这么做了——就是聘请了一家专门协助Kickstarter首日发布的机构，真的是专精这个领域。

But the second thing we did, and I am really glad we did this, is we hired an agency that exclusively helps with Kickstarter day one launches, like exclusively.

我们直接从Kickstarter官网上雇佣了他们。

We hired them directly from the Kickstarter website.

我访问了Kickstarter/experts页面，他们应该就是列表上排名第一的机构。

I went to Kickstarter slash experts, and I think they were just the top one on the list.

当时就想，哦，好吧。

It's like, oh, okay.

说实话，他们基本没问我任何问题。

Didn't really ask me any questions, to be honest.

我信任Kickstarter平台。

I I trust Kickstarter.

显然他们必须通过某些认证流程才能入驻。

They obviously had to go through some certification process.

我确实面试了几家，虽然不是立刻就能完全投入的那种，但他们说得有道理。

I did interview a couple, not, you know, totally gung ho immediately, but, they made sense.

他们的推销方案很合理，而且主要按佣金模式工作。

Their pitch made sense, and they worked primarily on a commission basis.

所以就觉得，好吧。

So it's like, okay.

某种程度上算是让营销团队也承担风险，这样我就能专注于产品。

Sort of got skin in the game with my marketing arm that allows me to focus on product.

这是我第一次推出产品时自己不是主要的营销负责人。

And this was the first time I've ever launched something where I wasn't the main marketer.

但我想，你知道吗？

But I figured, you know what?

这是电子墨水屏。

It's e ink.

是实体产品。

It's physical.

这是制造业。

It's manufacturing.

我们的预算非常紧张。

We're on a shoestring budget.

我无法包揽所有事情。

I can't do all of it.

我无法同时负责所有营销和产品工作。

I can't do all the marketing and all the product.

所以我们邀请他们加入了团队。

And so we brought them on board.

他们协助我们制作了一则广告。

They helped us produce a commercial.

他们帮我们拍摄了惊艳的产品照片——在办公桌上、厨房里以及各种不同场景中。

They helped us take stunning, you know, photographs of the product on desks and in kitchens and in just different settings.

实际上我们的照片质量太高了，以至于申请Kickstarter时他们拒绝了我们，理由是要求提供真实照片而非渲染图——但那些全都是实拍照片。

In fact, our photos were so good that when we applied to Kickstarter, they rejected us because they said we have to have real photos and not renders, and they were all real photos.

这太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

所以那挺酷的，你知道的，是的。

So that was a cool you know, that yeah.

那就像是，好吧。

That was like, okay.

至少这个东西看起来比我用iPhone甚至单反相机拍出来的酷炫照片要好得多。

At least this thing this thing looks so much better than it would if I used my iPhone or even my DSLR to try to snap some cool pics.

你知道吗？

You know?

他们知道自己在做什么。

They they know what they're doing.

然后我们采用了众筹领域的最佳实践，这对我来说曾是个秘密。

And then we did what's kind of the best practice in crowd crowdfunding, and this was a secret to me.

但任何有帮别人运营众筹活动经验的人都会告诉你，现在的众筹方式是先做预热活动。

But anybody who has experience running crowdfunding campaigns for other people will tell you, the way you crowdfund nowadays is you do a prelaunch campaign.

这场活动主要是根据你预售阶段的需求来敲定细节的。

The campaign is where you just hash out, I guess, on the demand from your prelaunch.

但你的预售活动可以说是以一种隐秘的方式进行的。

But your prelaunch campaign is done kind of secretly, I guess, you could say.

换句话说，我们创建了一个着陆页。

So in other words, we built a landing page.

我们为它导入了流量。

We drove traffic to it.

他们可以输入自己的邮箱。

They could plug in their email.

他们可以支付几美元来预订一个位置。

They could pay a couple bucks to reserve a spot.

当我们把这份名单积累到几千人时，我们就在Kickstarter上启动了项目。

And when we built that list up to a couple thousand folks, then we hit go on Kickstarter.

所以Kickstarter的第一天，我们在前24小时内就筹集了50美元，因为我们已经有了2000名明确表示'我想要这个'的人。

So day one of Kickstarter, I think we did $50 in the first twenty four hours because we already had 2,000 people who specifically identified, I want this.

这几百人里，大概有四五百人已经支付了一美元，相当于用信用卡预付定金，只为在发布日能排到队伍前列。

And a few 100 of those people, maybe four or 500, had paid a dollar, like, their credit card down just to be at the front of the line on launch day.

这些人是从哪里来的？

And where did those people come from?

这些人主要来自付费媒体渠道。

These people came primarily from paid media.

所以我们投放了一些Facebook广告。

So we did some Facebook ads.

还做了一些Instagram广告。

We did some Instagram ads.

有意思。

Interesting.

我们刻意没有将自有流量引导到这些页面。

We intentionally did not drive our own audience to these pages.

所以最初我想的是，嘿。

So, originally, I thought, hey.

当我来到这家机构时，你们会帮我们推广好消息。

When I came to the agency, you're gonna help us market good news.

我有一份新闻通讯。

I have a newsletter.

我在推特上有一些粉丝。

I have some followers on Twitter.

我有一个博客。

I have a blog.

我有可以联系的社群。

I have, you know, communities I can reach out to.

有人会转发我的推文。

I have people who will retweet me.

明白吗？

You know?

这会很有帮助。

That's gonna be helpful.

对吧？

Right?

但他们拒绝了。

And they said no.

他们说，别担心。

They said, don't worry.

他们基本上是说别这样——我可能说得有点多，甚至过度分享了，不过这没关系。

They basically said, don't and I'm kind of sharing, maybe oversharing here, but that's fine.

如果对听众有帮助，我就很开心。

If it's helpful to listeners, I'm happy.

他们说，假设你的受众规模为零。

They said, pretend your audience size is zero.

假设你无法从你的团队、你的兄弟那里获得任何销售。嗯。

Assume you will get no sales from your crew, your homies Mhmm.

假装你是个无名小卒。

And pretend that you're a nobody.

我们该如何如何发展这个？

How would we how would we grow this?

他们说，我们制作一个真正出色的落地页。

They said, we make a really great landing page.

我们通过付费媒体讲述故事。

We tell the story through paid media.

我们计算出每个潜在客户的成本。

We figure out how much it costs per lead.

你知道，他们有他们想要达到的基准，他们会以此判断好坏。

You know, they had benchmarks that they wanted, you know, to achieve, and they would consider that good or bad.

然后当我们根据你的目标达到某个关键的用户列表规模时，我们就启动。

And then when we get to some critical mass of our list size based on your goals, we launch.

当我们启动时，告诉所有你的伙伴们，所有购买产品的伙伴们，那都是额外收入。

And then when we launch, tell all your homies, And all of your homies who who buy the product, that's bonus dollars.

对吧？

Right?

那可是白捡的钱。

That's that's free free bucks.

我当时就说，好吧。

I was like, okay.

我有点沮丧，毕竟我花了十年时间写了数百篇博客文章。

And I was a little bummed because, you know, I've been spending 10 years writing hundreds of blog posts.

我制作了数百个讲座视频，试图创造大量价值。

I've made hundreds of lectures, videos, tried to create a lot of value.

我一直努力创造多于索取，本以为这次会是那个时刻。

I've tried to create more than I extract, and I thought this was maybe that moment.

对吧？

Right?

我要把我的朋友、粉丝和关注者转化为支持者，他们也会很开心，因为这是个很棒的产品。

I'm gonna I'm gonna convert my friends and fans and followers to supporters, and they're gonna be happy too because it's a great product.

但代理公司说，不行。

But the agency said, no.

别那么做。

Don't do that.

所以我们没有那样做。

And so we didn't do that.

我们听从了他们的建议，结果奏效了。

So we followed their advice, and it worked.

这真的很酷，因为我觉得很多人会观察Twitter上那些拥有大量粉丝的独立开发者，他们只盯着有观众基础的人，然后说'你随便发布什么都能立刻成功，因为你已经有受众了'。

And so that was really cool because I think a lot of folks, they look at whether they look at indie hackers on Twitter with lots of followers, they they just look at people with audiences, and they say, well, you you can launch anything, and it works right away because you have this audience.

那我只有八个粉丝该怎么办？

And how can I do it with with eight followers?

其实这次Kickstarter策略证明了你不必拥有观众基础，即使在当今环境下，只要专注于产品本身，你依然可以成功推出项目并取得好成绩。

It's like, well, this Kickstarter strategy kind of demonstrated that you don't have to have an audience, that you can actually kind of even in even in today's world, you can launch something and do really well by focusing on the product.

这让我意识到幂律效应已经不再适用了。

And that was something I had considered was no longer a a power law.

那种规律已经不再成立。

Like, that that was no longer true.

这种观念在今年夏天以一种好的方式被打破了，因为这次发布成功完全不是因为我拥有粉丝。

And that belief was, you know, kind of shattered in a good way this this summer because the launch success wasn't due to, you know, me having followers at all.

而是因为...是的。

It was it was due to yeah.

确实。

Sure.

是因为我们的一些文案写作。

Was due to some of our copywriting.

虽然精美的照片功不可没，但归根结底是因为我们拥有一个合理的产品。

Was It due to great photos, but ultimately, it was due to our having a product that, you know, made sense.

这个宣传理念是合理的。

The pitch makes sense.

定价还算合适。

The pricing was okay.

这是合情合理的。

It was reasonable.

所以这真的非常鼓舞人心，你知道，我们某种程度上能做到这件事。

And so that was really encouraging that, you know, we can kind of do this.

我不想说反复地大赚特赚。

I don't wanna say bang the register over and over again.

你想要一个好产品，但仍然存在所谓的'公式'。

You wanna have a good product, but there is still, quote, unquote, a formula.

有一种方式可以用很酷的东西打入市场，如果你不喜欢的话，不必花十年时间积累受众。

There's a way to break into the market with something cool, and you don't have to do ten years of audience building if that's not your thing.

你依然可以获得成功。

You can still find success.

是啊。

Yeah.

有意思。

Interesting.

你知道吗，当我开始不再听很多建议时，我的事业越来越成功。特别是在编程社区，很多建议都是那些自己什么都没做的人不断回收复述的。

You know, I've had more and more success with with my endeavors, as I've, like, stopped listening to a lot of Like, especially in the programming community, a lot of the advice is just recycled and regurgitated from people who aren't even doing anything.

坦白说，这些建议很多都是低质量的。

And so it's, frankly, low quality advice, a lot of it.

我现在正回归本源，从第一性原理出发思考：这在逻辑上是否成立？

And I'm just going back and thinking from first principles, and then it's like, does this make logical sense?

如果成立，我就会去做。

If so, I'm gonna do it.

如果不成立，我就不会做，而不是盲目遵循别人发布的那些可能与我情况不符的套路。

If not, I'm not gonna do it rather than, trying to follow a playbook that somebody put out there who whose situation might not match mine.

因为建议有好有坏，有些建议对某个人来说是好的，但对处于不同情境下的另一个人则未必适用。

Because there's there's good advice and there's bad advice, and there's good advice that is good advice for one person, but is not good advice for a different person in in a different situation.

这可能是最让我受伤的地方——遵循那些或许对别人是好建议，但对我所处情境却不合适的建议。

And that's probably what has hurt me the most is following advice that's maybe good advice, but not good advice for me in my situation.

所以听你说这些与所谓传统智慧相悖的话——至少在特定圈子里是这样——而且居然奏效了，真的很有意思。

So that's really interesting to hear you say these things that kind of, contradict what you might call conventional wisdom, at least in certain circles, and it worked.

是啊。

Yeah.

确实奏效了。

It worked.

事实上，就在刚才我说的时候，这是第一次那些确切的词语组合让我意识到——那就是常规做法对吧？

And in fact, as I was saying it just a moment ago, it's the first time that those that exact combination of words synthesized for me that the conventional right?

那就是所谓的传统智慧。

That that is the conventional wisdom.

嘿。

Hey.

在你销售某样东西之前，先建立一个受众群体。

Before you sell something, go build an audience first.

我并不是说这有什么问题，而且多年来我也确实一直本能地专注于建立个人受众群体。

And I there's nothing wrong with that, and I've definitely intuitively focused on building my personal audience for years and years.

所以这里并非有意跳过步骤，但有趣的是我现在开始反思——这是否只是拥有受众群体的人一种近乎觉醒的新式门槛设定？嗯。

So there was no intention here to skip steps, but it was it was interesting because now I'm rethinking, well, is that just a new almost woke form of gatekeeping Mhmm.

由那些已经拥有受众的人所设立的？

By the people who have the audiences?

因为你绝对不可能一夜之间就建立起观众群。

Because one thing you definitely can't do is build an audience overnight.

我是说，跟一个女孩聊天或许能一夜爆红，但你不是她。

I mean, talk to a girl can can build an audience overnight, but, like, you're not her.

懂吗？

You know?

就像乔丹·彼得森说的，那是耶稣的境界，而你就是你。

As Jordan Peterson would say, he's like, well, that's Jesus, and and you're you.

明白吗？

You know?

因为你不可能一夜成名，那些有粉丝的人深知这点，他们每天都承受着维系、增长、培养这群信任他们、受他们影响或点击他们发布链接的人的压力。

Because it's like, you're not you're not gonna build an audience overnight, and the people with audiences know that because they feel the pain every day of maintaining, building, fostering that group of folks to trust them and and be influenced by them or look at their links that they post or whatever.

所以这有点像，也许这建议本身并不纯粹高尚神圣。

And so it's kind of like, maybe that's actually the gay that's actually not some pure, whole, and, you know, holy advice.

哦，先去积累你的粉丝吧。

Oh, go build your audience.

创造价值，要知道，'受众'这个概念其实是相当现代的产物。

Add value for well, you know, this whole concept of an audience is is a really modern thing.

明白吗？

You know?

很久以前甚至近代历史上，都没有'关注'某人这种操作方式。

There wasn't a way to hit follow on somebody a long time ago or even in the relative recent history.

优秀, good ideas would spread.

Ideas that were good would spread.

某些人产出优质创意的能力更强，他们的思想传播更广，因此你会更频繁地听到他们的名字。

And there were certain individuals that had more good ideas than others, so their ideas would spread more so you'd hear their name more.

对吧？

Right?

这些人可能是作家、特定领域的记者，或是你敬重的行业专家。

And those would be maybe authors or certain journalists or whoever it is you respect in a given field.

但现在流行这种思维：只要我能诱导人们点击关注或订阅，我的受众群体就会扩大，从而获得更大影响力。

But now this idea of, like, well, if I manipulate people to click, follow, or subscribe, then my audience is bigger, and therefore, I'm I'm, more, I'm, therefore, I'm more influential.

这有点像本末倒置。

It's kind of like working backwards.

比如我认为很多Z世代——这是我最近的工作假设之一——他们看着那些Instagram网红之类的人拥有大量粉丝。

It's like, I think a lot of Gen z, for example, this has been one of my working hypotheses lately is they look at whether it's Instagrammers or whatever, and they have a large audience.

当你拥有大量粉丝时，你就能获得免费酒店房间、免费机票这类赞助。

And when you have a large audience, you can get, I don't know, free hotel room, you can get a flight somewhere, that kind of thing, sponsorships.

于是他们得出结论：只要粉丝数够多就能就能得到这些好处。

And they go, well, therefore, the formula is make my follower count high, and then I get that stuff.

但他们没意识到的是，当这一切刚开始时——比如08年、10年Facebook推出粉丝页和Twitter兴起时——那些迅速获得大量粉丝从而获得影响力的人，都是已经有所成就的人。

But what they fail to acknowledge is that when all of this stuff started, let's say, o eight, o 10 with, like, Facebook adding fan pages and Twitter coming out, when all this started, the people who quickly got all these followers and therefore influence were people who had actually done something already.

可能是拍过电影、或者.

Maybe that would make a movie, write a book, whatever.

然后人们关注他们是因为觉得：嘿

And then people follow them because they're like, hey.

你就是那个做出那件事的人。

You're the person that made that thing.

我很好奇你还做些什么。

I'm curious what else you do.

我很好奇你还有什么想法。

I'm curious what else you think.

我很好奇你早餐吃什么。

I'm curious what you have for breakfast.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

And that Mhmm.

这就是现实。

That's just reality.

现在的孩子们，应该说我们也是孩子。

And now the kids, let's say, and we're we're kids too.

这更像是个精神层面的问题，而不完全是年龄层的问题。

It just kind of is a a spiritual matter, not so much age group.

孩子们看着这一切，却试图跳过'做有趣的事'这个步骤，嗯哼。

The kids are looking at it, and they're trying to skip the step of do something interesting Mhmm.

直接就想问，比如，我的数字能更大吗？

And just go straight to, like, can my integer be higher?

然后我就能得到那些东西。

Then I'll get the stuff.

这就像说，嘿，你还是得有趣才行。

It's like, well, you still have to be interesting.

你还是得创造点什么。

You still have to make something.

你还是得...所以我们看到，最近当我看到案例研究时，发现大品牌现在追求他们所谓的'微影响者'，而不是传统影响者。

You still have to and so we're seeing, I think, when I see case studies lately that large brands are now going for what they call micro influencers versus the influencers.

因为现在的情况是，消费者的认知和成熟度在提升，他们意识到很多穿着瑜伽裤、拥有百万粉丝的人整天在网上发布软性内容——你知道的——这些人很空洞。

Like, yeah, because what's happening is the consumer sentiment, the consumer sophistication is catching up and realizing that a lot of the the people with the yoga pants and a million followers who basically are doing softcore, you know what, online all day, they're hollow.

他们不是有趣的人。

They're not interesting people.

他们从未取得任何成就，你为什么要听他们关于任何事的建议呢？除非你想穿瑜伽裤在网上做些软色情内容。

They've never achieved anything, and why should you take their advice about anything unless you want to wear yoga pants and do soft core stuff online?

这就是他们的专长所在。

That's what they're good for.

就像纳西姆·塔勒布说的，不要雇佣全优生或考试高手来做任何工作，除非这份工作就是参加考试。

Like Nassim Taleb says, don't hire a straight a student or a perfect test taker for any job unless the job is to take tests.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这就是我们现在逐渐认识到的问题，我很高兴看到我们可能正在回归到关注工艺和产品本身。记得当时推特还是谁来着？

And that's what we're kind of getting to now, and I'm I'm glad to see it that we're going back to maybe focusing on the craft, on the product itself, you know, even when Twitter removed or who was it?

Instagram取消了点赞计数，现在你看不到点赞数了。

Instagram removed the like count, and now you can't see likes.

我认为一些平台开始意识到，嘿，

And they're starting to I think some of the platforms are starting to realize, like, hey.

当我们助推了错误的内容传播变量时，信号路径中可能已经积累了太多噪音？

Maybe there's too much noise in the way of the signal when we boost the wrong variables, you know, of of of content and ideas being spread?

我们能否回归到这样的状态：一个好点子即使是由无名小卒创造的，也能传播开来？

And can we go back to, like, can a good idea spread even if it's created by someone who's a nobody?

我认为这种趋势正在回归。

And I think that's coming back.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

记得当初我推特粉丝寥寥无几时，大概只有几百个，我总在问自己怎样才能增加粉丝。

I used to back when I had very few Twitter followers, like just a few 100 or something like that, I asked myself how can I get more Twitter followers?

最终得出的结论是：我应该在推特平台之外做些事情来吸引更多粉丝。

And the conclusion I eventually came to was like, I should do something off of Twitter in order to get more Twitter followers.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我发现，每次在会议上演讲后，推特粉丝数就会迎来一波增长。

Because, like, you know, I noticed that whenever I would go speak at a conference, I would get a bump of new Twitter followers.

我注意到，你知道，那些在推特之外因某事出名的人，这反而帮到了他们在推特上的表现。

And I noticed that, you know, somebody who's known for something off of Twitter that helps them on Twitter.

你看，就像埃隆·马斯克有那么多推特粉丝，并不是因为他在推特上做了什么。

You know, it's like Elon Musk has however many millions of Twitter followers, not because of anything on Twitter.

埃隆·马斯克的推文可能有点意思，但他拥有数百万粉丝是因为他做成了一些事。

Like, Elon Musk's tweets are maybe mildly entertaining, but he has millions of followers because he's done he's done things.

所以，是的，我也以类似的方式思考过这个问题。

And so, yeah, I thought about that in a similar way.

另外，我发现从商业角度来看，推特粉丝相比邮件订阅者并没有特别大的优势。

Also, by the I found Twitter followers to be not particularly advantageous from a business perspective, compared to, like, email, subscribers.

因为当我推出新产品时，大部分销售额来自邮件订阅者，而来自推特粉丝的少之又少。

Because, like, when I launch something, so much of the sales comes from email subscribers and and so little comes from Twitter followers.

不过超过某个临界点后，情况就变得有趣了。

Although it has been interesting beyond a certain, like, critical mass or something like that.

出乎意料的是，我发现推特对于建立人际关系非常有效。

I found Twitter to be really good for relationship building, surprisingly.

比如，我在推特上认识人，几乎是在推特上发展出一个社交圈，然后后来在现实生活中与这些人见面之类的。

Like, I meet people on Twitter and kind of almost develop a social group on Twitter and then meet those people later in real life and stuff like that.

总之，我有点偏离主题了，不过是的，我也观察到了一些类似的情况。

Anyway, I'm I'm digressing from from the point, but, yeah, I've kinda observed some of those same things.

是的。

Yeah.

说得太对了。

That's right on.

而且，我认为这对所有刚开始对这类事情感兴趣的人来说都是个巨大的机会。

And that's well, and that's where, I think that's a huge opportunity for everyone who's just starting to have some interest in this kind of thing.

尤其是程序员。

There's a lot especially programmers.

对吧？

Right?

有很多很多技术人士、工程师，无论是软件还是其他领域的，他们都有话要说，有宝贵的见解要分享。

There's many, many technical folks, engineers, whether it's software or otherwise, who who have something to say, who have something valuable to say.

他们拥有独到见解。

They have insights.

他们的见解值得他人付费获取，无论是通过书籍、视频还是其他形式，只是他们自己尚未确信这一点。

They have insights that other people would pay for, right, in the form of a book or video or whatever, and they don't know that for sure.

所以部分问题在于建立信心，他们需要自己去领悟这一点。

So some of that is just confidence building, and they have to kind of figure that out on their own.

但当他们想通后就会说：好吧。

But some of it is then they go, okay.

我觉得我准备好了。

I think I'm ready.

我准备开始写博客了。

I'm ready to start my blog.

我准备开始分享，但不想注册一个只有我妈关注的账号，现在该怎么起步呢？

I'm ready to start sharing, but I don't wanna make an account with, you know, my mom is my only follower, and how do I start now?

或许我加入这趟列车已经太迟了。

And maybe I join this this train too late.

但我非常希望能成为这股鼓励浪潮的一部分，帮助人们意识到许多拥有所谓成功的人...

But I I think I'd love to be part of the encouragement train that that helps folks realize that a lot of the folks with hey.

我的意思是，你甚至可以用工具来验证这一点。

I mean, you you can even use tools for this.

不必完全相信我的话。

You don't have take my word for it.

去看看那些拥有5万粉丝的人，用工具分析他们的账号，它会显示有多少是假粉、机器人，以及他们购买粉丝的概率。

Go look at someone with, I don't know, 50,000 followers and plug in one of those tools, their account, and it will show you how many are fake, how many are bots, how many the probability that they purchased some of them.

快速浏览下他们的主页就知道，5万粉丝却只有5个点赞。

Even just a quick scroll through their profile, k, 50,000 followers, they get five likes.

对吧。

Right.

没人在乎。

Nobody cares.

没人在乎他们说什么。

Nobody cares what they say.

有些媒体账号拥有200万粉丝，但发布新文章时只获得两个赞，且零转发。

There's there's media publications with 2,000,000 followers that get two likes and no retweets when they post a new article.

这太疯狂了。

It's insane.

因此，采用‘真实粉丝’的方式来衡量关注者才是更合理的指标，而这一点我似乎一直无意中做得不错，尤其是在推特上。

And so, you know, having having kind of the true fan approach to the followers is, is really the better metric to look at, and that's something I've always been accidentally, I think, good at, especially on Twitter.

你提到电子邮件对你来说效果更好。

You mentioned that email has been a lot better for you.

我认为我在推特上‘赚钱’方面总体表现不错，因为我的推特策略是每获得一个关注者，就会失去两个。

I think I've done generally well with with Twitter for, quote, unquote, making money because my Twitter strategy is gain one follower, lose two.

这个策略一直运作得非常顺利。

And it's been and it's been working very well.

我在推特上的做法是让观点两极分化，能长期关注我的人都是能接受这种风格的人。

And so what I do on Twitter is I polarize people, and the only people who follow me for more than a day are people who can tolerate that.

如果他们能接受这种风格，我们的关系就更紧密了。

And if they can tolerate that, we're closer.

对吧？

Right?

所以我不是一个让人感觉良好的账号。

So I'm not a feel good vibe account.

我不发梗图。

I don't post memes.

我不会刻意逗你笑。

I don't, like, try to make you laugh.

本质上我并不是为了娱乐你。

I'm not trying to entertain you per se.

有时我很愤世嫉俗。

Sometimes I'm cynical.

有时我会分享关于成长或创业的见解。

Sometimes I try to share insights about growth or startups.

有时我就是随心所欲。

Sometimes I'm whatever.

有时候我就只是拍张照片，比如我的午餐。

Sometimes I do just take a photo of, like, my lunch.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但如果有人愿意容忍这些，我会认为他们是在无形中增加了对我的信任。

But if someone's willing to tolerate that, then I perceive that as they increase their trust in me implicitly.

他们并不认为这是在签订某种契约。

They don't think that they're signing a contract.

好吧。

Okay.

我关注着瑞安。

I'm following Ryan.

今天我依然关注他，明天我还会继续关注他。

Today, I'm still following him, and tomorrow, I'm gonna follow him again.

即使他说了些我不同意的话，因此我反而更信任他，但我觉得他们确实会更信任你。

Even if he says something I disagree with, Therefore, I trust him more, but I think they do trust you more.

人们越包容你，就越信任你。

The more people tolerate you, the more they trust you.

而那些不愿包容我的人就会离开。

And people who don't tolerate me go away.

你明白吗？

You know?

正如赛斯·高汀所说，如果你不喜欢，如果他们不喜欢，那就不是为他们准备的，仅此而已。

As Seth Godin says, if you don't like it, if they don't like it, it's not for them, and that's it.

然后其中一些人会找到我的博客并订阅通讯，当然。

And then some of those folks will find my blog and subscribe to the newsletter and sure.

对吧？

Right?

当你通过电子邮件直接销售商品时，你可以测量点击量并回应他们的问题，这具有巨大优势。

When you when you sell things directly over email and you can measure clicks and you can respond to their questions, there's a huge advantage there.

你在Twitter回复中无法原生获得这种优势。

You don't get natively on, like, Twitter replies.

但我发现，在Twitter上不刻意迎合大众，反而让每个粉丝都显得更有价值。

But I've found that allowing myself to not try to appeal to the masses on Twitter has actually made every follower kind of count.

对吧？

Right?

所以我不太在意粉丝数量的增长。

And so I'm not concerned with my follower count going up.

准确地说我不是不在意，而是更希望用可能成为现实生活挚友的人，替换掉每个虚假粉丝或低兴趣关注者。

I'm concerned or I'm not concerned per se, but I'm more interested in swapping out every fake follower or every low interest follower with someone who could be a future in real life homie.

明白吗？

Right?

比如我两年前搬到这里后，已经有几十个Twitter粉丝来我家度过周末。

So, like, since I moved here two years ago, dozens of Twitter followers have come out to my house and just crashed for a weekend.

我们一起在户外工作。

We work together outside.

通常会做些我们俩都不太擅长的事，比如建筑装修之类的。嗯。

We do something we usually do something neither one of us knows how to do, like construction or Mhmm.

DIY手工活。

DIY stuff.

现在我已经和大约36位来自推特的网友加深了联系。

And now I've just tightened the bond with, like, 36 people from Twitter.

我能让所有8000个粉丝都来我家吗？

Can I ever have all 8,000 come over?

大概不行。

Probably not.

但我们正按名单推进，就像这不是一道毫无意义的数学题。

But we're working through the list as if that's not a math equation that doesn't make sense.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得大多数人不会这么做。

And I don't think most people are doing that.

我认为大多数人——不是大多数人——是在追求粉丝数的增长，而非强化真实联系。

I don't think most people are not most people, I think, are trying to make the number go up instead of trying to make the connection stronger.

但讽刺的是，如果你专注于深化关系，数量反而会增加，因为别人看到后会想：'这家伙有点与众不同'。

But ironically, if you'd focus on making the connection stronger, the number does go up because other people see that and they go, oh, this guy's a little different.

是啊。

Yeah.

我在某个时间点做了个转变。

I kinda made a switch at some point in time.

大概是在我开始专注于咨询业务时，我开始重视个人关系。

I think around the time that I started focusing on consulting, I started focusing on individual relationships.

我创办了一份纸质通讯——显然现在没人这么做了。

I started a, snail mail newsletter, which obviously nobody's doing.

这让我能做到几件事。

And so that allowed me to do a couple things.

比如第一，我认为收到实体信箱里的真实信件，比收到电子邮件更有人情味。

Like, one, I think receiving an actual physical letter in your mailbox is a bit more intimate than receiving an email.

而且信件底部没有退订链接。

And with a letter, there's no unsubscribe link at the bottom.

因此我不必担心人们会退订，因为我偏离了他们声称想听的主题。

And so I don't have to be afraid of people unsubscribing because I'm diverging from the topics that they said they wanted to hear about from me.

所以我在信件中谈论各种话题。

So I talk about all kinds of stuff in the letter.

我不知道。

I don't know.

甚至比如，在其中一封信里，我谈到了共产主义，以及编程行业中有很多人多少有些马克思主义倾向之类的内容。

Even, like like, for example, in one letter, I talked about, like, and communism and and how, a lot of people in the programming industry are are kind of, Marxist leaning and stuff like that.

这些内容我绝不会在电子邮件中提及，因为那会显得极不得体。

Like, stuff that I would never ever say in my emails because it would be wildly inappropriate.

但我可以在信件中这样做，更能展现真实的自我，透露更多真实想法。

But I can do that kind of stuff and kinda show my true colors more and reveal more of myself.

尽管这种交流是单向的，我仍能与人们建立紧密的关系。

And even though it's kind of unidirectional, I can still form a close relationship with people.

后来我在会议等场合亲自见到了其中很多人。

And then a lot of those people, I end up meeting in person at conferences and stuff like that.

然后我和这些人建立了各种独立的联系。

And then I have all these, like, separate connections with people.

比如我们在推特上交流，他们收到我的纸质通讯。

Like, we communicate on Twitter, They get my snail mail newsletter.

他们看我的视频，在播客里听我说话，然后我们还会线下见面。

They watch my videos, hear me on the podcast, and then we hang out in person.

就像你说的，这种模式无法规模化推广给所有人。

And like you said, that's not, like, scalable to everybody.

但我有个不切实际的愿望，想见每一个收到我纸质通讯的人，甚至亲自去他们所在的地方拜访。

But, you know, I have kind of a an unachievable aspiration to, like, meet every single person who receives my snail mail newsletter and maybe even, like, visit them in person where they are.

这永远不可能实现，但如果我抱着'想认识每个人、和每个人交朋友'的态度继续下去，

And that can never be done, but if I go forward with that attitude of, like, I wanna meet everybody and become friends with everybody, that, like Yes.

不知怎么的，就会让整个事情发展壮大。

Somehow, like, grows the whole thing.

是的。

Yes.

数学上说不通，但还是要试试看。

The math doesn't math, but try it anyway.

然后...那个...是的。

And and the the yeah.

只管去做的收获，本就不需要合乎逻辑。

The fruits you get from just going for it doesn't have to make sense.

就像我断断续续玩YouTube已经很多年了。

Like, you know, I've dabbled in and out of YouTube, for example, for years.

我的账号早在2005、2006年就注册了，那时谷歌还没收购它。

I mean, I made my account in 2005, 2006 before it was bought by Google.

当时我翻唱Lifehouse和两千年代初的另类摇滚做些翻唱视频。

I was making cover videos of, you know, Lifehouse and, you know, Alt Rock early two thousand stuff.

有段时间我的视频还上过YouTube首页，但我觉得没什么大不了，毕竟那只是个傻乎乎的小众视频网站。

And there were days I was on the homepage of YouTube with a video, and I didn't think it was that big of a deal because it was just this dumb niche video sharing site.

后来...我就停更了。

And and then I stopped.

比如，我获得了数百万的观看量，然后我就突然停止了。

Like, I got millions of views, and I just stopped.

那时我才16岁，觉得这没什么大不了的。

And I was 16 years old, and I thought, like, that's not that big of a deal.

多年后我才意识到，如果你能吸引那种程度的关注，其实还挺有用的。

And then years later, I realized that if you can command that kind of attention, it's actually kind of useful.

所以之后我会隔几个月，

And so then I, you know, I would go a few months.

再制作几个视频，可能是关于科技的，也可能是关于音乐的，然后又会停更一年。

I'd make another few videos, maybe about tech, maybe about music, and then I'd stop again for a year.

后来我在韩国住了几年，制作了韩语和英语的视频，然后又中断了。

And then I lived in Korea a few years, and I made videos in Korean and English, and then I stopped again.

现在我又重新开始做视频了。

And now I'm getting back into it.

最酷的部分在于重新意识到，好吧

And what's been cool about it is remembering, okay.

我的目标是什么？

What are my goals?

不是那些关于数千次观看、变现之类的虚荣指标。

It's not these vanity metrics of thousands of views or monetization or whatever.

而是那个真正需要它的个人或那十个人的一次观看。

It's like the one view by the one person or the 10 people that need it.

有些视频，我不仅自己经历过，也看到别人身上发生过这种情况。

And there's been videos, and I've seen this not just myself, but observed with other people.

我有个朋友做网络爬虫，他在YouTube上发布视频。

I have a buddy who does web scraping, and he makes videos on YouTube.

时长就两三分钟。

They're two, three, four minutes.

如何爬取这个网站？

How to scrape this website?

如何爬取那个网站？

How to scrape this website?

有段时间，他就像流水线作业一样，每隔三天就发布一个关于如何爬取某个知名网站的视频。

And for a while, he was just shipping, like, every three days, how to scrape, you know, whatever, insert brand that we've all heard of.

他用的是同一个缩略图模板。

He had the same thumbnail template.

只是替换下关键词和logo而已。

He would just swap out the word and the logo.

我去他频道看过，订阅量不多，每个视频大概就30到200的播放量，最多200。

And I went to his channel, and he didn't have a ton of subscribers, and each video would have 30 views, 200 maybe 200 views max.

感觉他可能有个长期目标，指望哪天能突然火起来。

It's like, oh, you know, maybe he just has this long term goal of, like, eventually, this thing will pick up.

我们聊过后发现，他那些30播放量的视频，居然能给他带来四个客户，每人付他5美元。

We started messaging, and he's having view videos with 30 views where he gets four clients that each pay him $5 from this video.

要知道，想在YouTube通过视频赚20美元，通常需要数百万播放量才行。

It's like, well, to make that to make $20 from a YouTube video, you know, from the video, you need, let's say, millions of views.

而他只用了30播放量就做到了。

He's doing it from 30 views.