埃弗拉特·费尼格森：在一个被意识形态与政治权力斗争撕裂的世界中押注自己与比特币

然后你进入那个网站，感觉看起来不像一个正规的公司网站。

And you go into the website, and it's like, that doesn't look like an official company website.

对吧。

Right.

接着你会发现，有数百个其他网站都在讨论比特币。

And then you find, like, hundreds of other websites talking about Bitcoin.

就像是在说，等等。

It's like, hold on.

这里谁说了算？

Who's the boss here?

比特币官网到底在哪里？

Where is the bitcoin.com official website?

而实际上根本没有这种东西。

And there is no such thing.

我最常被问到的问题之一就是：你为比特币工作吗？

One of the most frequent questions I get is, do you work for Bitcoin?

我有点想问，你是不是

I'm kinda like, do you

为互联网工作？

work for the Internet?

没错。

That's right.

所以我当时不知道这个。

So I didn't know that.

对吧？

Right?

我当时不知道。

I didn't know that.

而且我们太习惯了。是啊。

And we're so conditioned Yeah.

用某种固定方式生活，以至于从不质疑。

To live the world in a certain way that we don't question.

是啊。

Yeah.

但它是个公司。

But it's a company.

那是个国家。

It's a country.

甚至存在。

Even exist.

想想看，生活中几乎没有什么是去中心化的，也许除了大自然。

Like, nothing is decentralized in life if you think about it except maybe for nature.

对。

Yeah.

大自然。

Nature.

除了这个。

Except for right.

那些自然生长的有机物质，你知道的，就是上帝的造物。

Organic stuff that just grow out of, you know, just God.

是啊。

Yeah.

但除此之外，人类总是倾向于把一切都集中化。

But, otherwise, humans tend to centralize everything.

没错。

Yes.

所以我也被这种思维模式影响了。

And so I was conditioned too.

当我开始寻找时，却找不到它。

And when I started searching, I couldn't find it.

于是他坐下来和我详谈。

So he sat with me.

他回答了我所有问题，包括比特币官网在哪里。

He answered all my question, including where is bitcoin.com?

包括那是我最初提出的第一个问题。

Including that was my first very first question.

政府真的无法阻止这个吗？

Can the government really not stop this?

然后他说，是的。

And he said, yeah.

他们做不到。

They cannot.

我当时就想，天啊。

And I'm like, oh my god.

给我本书。

Give me a book.

给我些资料。

Give me something.

我需要了解更多。

I need to learn more.

他确实这么做了。

And he did.

他给了我萨菲丁的《是的》。

He gave me Safedin's Yeah.

比特币标准。

Bitcoin standard.

这本书有希伯来语译本。

There's a translation for it in Hebrew.

哦，太好了。

Oh, great.

哦，真是讽刺。

Oh, the irony.

而且这是一本非常棒的书，我很快就读完了，并开始看播客。

And and it's it's an amazing book, and I read it very quickly and started watching podcasts.

我当时就想，好吧。

And I was like, okay.

实际上，是他陪我去完成了第一笔交易。

Actually, he went with me to do my first transaction.

哇。

Wow.

还帮我买了钱包等等。

And buy my wallet and everything.

然后我告诉他，我不再需要你了。

And then I told him, I don't need you anymore.

拜拜。

Bye bye.

我继续深入研究，完全沉迷其中。

And I kept on diving in, and I was obsessed.

就像众多

As the many

我们中的

of us

是。

are.

是啊。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

我现在依然是。

And I still am.

真棒。

Love that.

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

所以，我是说，肯定还有很多人像你最初接触时那样，充满怀疑，不知道从何开始。

So, I mean, I'm sure you still get so many people who were like maybe you towards the beginning of your journey, doubting it, unsure where to start.

关于比特币，你最常被问到的问题是什么？

What's the most frequent question that you get about Bitcoin?

你如何着手先教育人们，让他们在了解他们的反对意见或担忧后对此感到安心？

And how do you approach it to first educate people and make them feel comfortable about it knowing that knowing their kind of opposition or their concerns?

如今我的大多数听众都是像我一样，在疫情期间觉醒并开始质疑周围发生的一切的人。

So most of my audience today are people that have, like myself, kind of woken up during COVID to everything that's going on and started asking questions.

因此他们自然在寻求更多自由和主权，并尽可能减少与体制机构的接触。

And so they're naturally seeking more freedom and more sovereignty and to minimize the interfaces they have with the institutions as much as they can.

所以我认为这类听众最常问的问题是：比特币真的无法阻止吗？政府真的不能叫停它吗？

And so I think that the top question I'm getting from that kind of audience is, is it really unstoppable, and can the government not stop this?

他们确实对贝莱德集团和那些西装革履的人感到恐惧，担心比特币是否已被劫持。

And they really are afraid about BlackRock and the suits and, like, is Bitcoin hijacked?

因为罗杰·维尔在让所有人都深信比特币并非我们所宣称的那样，它实际上可以被操纵和叫停这方面做得非常成功。

Because Roger Veri is doing a very good job in making everyone really afraid that Bitcoin is not what we say it is and that it can be really manipulated and stopped.

所以当人们来咨询时，这是我必须首先和他们探讨的问题。

And so that's the very first thing that I kind of have to go through with people when I when they come and ask.

对此你会怎么回应？

What do say to that?

首先，我会解释开源协议的概念。

Well, I first of all, I explain about the open source protocol.

由于我有技术背景，我会尝试与他们分享这个系统的架构是怎样的。

And, you know, since I have a technology background, I try to share with them what the architecture of this thing is.

什么是协议？

What is a protocol?

比如，什么是开源？

Like, what is open source?

这样他们就能理解它的运作方式以及与法币的区别。

So just so that they understand how this works and how different it is from Fiat.

然后我通常会首先推荐他们看一部名为《四骑士》的纪录片，这可能会让人觉得有趣，因为大多数比特币爱好者不会推荐这个。

And then I always the first place I send them to, and that may be funny because that's not where most Bitcoiners are sending people, is a documentary called The Four Horse Men.

这部纪录片在YouTube上。

It's on YouTube.

是免费的。

It's free.

我想这部纪录片是多米尼克·弗里斯比制作的，如果你认识他的话。

And I think it was done by Dominic Frisbee, if you know him.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

我聊过

I've chatted

和制片人，我想。

with producer, I think.

他大约是在十一二年前制作的，这是一部非常出色的纪录片。

And he made it about eleven years ago, twelve years ago, and it's an excellent documentary.

顺便说一句，马克思·凯泽也在里面。

By the way, Max Keiser is in it.

我就是在这部纪录片里第一次见到他的。

That's the first place I saw him.

参与其中的有大学教授、前世界银行高管们。

And it's with all these university professor, former World Bank executives.

还有白银交易员、前国际货币基金组织成员，都是真正懂货币的人，整部电影都在讲法定货币，就是为了让你了解法币。

You get silver traders, IMF former IMF people, like, really people who are knowledgeable about money, and the whole movie is about fiat, just to teach you about fiat.

所以我总是首先推荐这部影片，因为它通俗易懂。

So that's the first place I send people because it's a it's an easy movie to watch.

里面充满了精彩的动画和内容。

It's full of great animations and great things.

然后我推荐的第二部是你参与制作的纪录片。

And then the second place I send them to is a documentary you have done Yeah.

片名是《感谢比特币》？

Which is thank god for bitcoin?

《上帝保佑比特币》。

God bless bitcoin.

没错。

That's right.

上帝保佑比特币。

God bless bitcoin.

我的博客上也有这个，所以我给他们发了链接。

I've got that on my blog as well, so I send them the link.

所以我觉得电影对人们来说很容易观看并入门。

So movies, I think, are very easy for people to watch to just get into it.

是的。

Yeah.

我也和我的儿子一起做过这个，他当时在问一些问题。

I've also done this with my son who was asking, like, questions.

所以我们看了《上帝保佑比特币》，还看了林的《破碎的金钱》。

And so we watched god bless Bitcoin, and we watched broken money of Lin.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

大概三十分钟的样子。

Like, the thirty minutes.

我们不断暂停播放，他则不断提问。

And we kept stopping, and he asked questions.

电影确实是很好的入门途径。

Like, those are really good places to start from, movies.

之后我会推荐他们看书和听播客之类的，但我有自己的入门套装。

And later on, I send them to books and podcasts and things like that, but I have my own starter kit.

我很喜欢这样。

I love that.

准备好了。

Ready.

所以当有人问我时，我就直接复制粘贴发送所有链接。

So when people ask me, I just copy paste and send them all my links.

你知道吗，有时候我会停下来想，天啊。

You know, sometimes I I stop and I think, gosh.

我们现在有这么多播客了。

We have so many podcasts now.

我们有很多好书。

We've got great books.

我们有很多优秀的纪录片。

We've got great documentaries.

为什么还有这么多人对此无动于衷？

Why are so many people still sleeping on this?

我是说，我最近刚做了一个采访，感觉更像是一场辩论，而不是有人真正好奇比特币是什么？

I mean, I recently just did an interview that felt almost like more more like a debate rather than someone actually inquisitive about what is Bitcoin?

比如，你能解释一下你的论点吗？

Like, can you explain your thesis?

更像是，不。

It was more like, no.

应该是这样。

It's this way.

而且，不。

And, no.

并不是所有人都能接触到它。

It's not accessible to everyone.

我就想不通，既然这些资源都是完全免费开放的，为什么现在还有这么多人对比特币持负面态度？

And I'm just like, why are so many people so negative about Bitcoin today when all these resources are available literally for free to everyone?

因为我们不喜欢改变。

Because we don't like changing.

作为人类，我们非常害怕改变生活中的事物。

As human beings, we are so afraid of changing stuff in our life.

我们知道这需要我们以不同的方式生活。

We know that it would require us to live differently.

我们害怕生活变得与我们所知的不同，也害怕不确定性。

We are afraid of life looking different than what we know it to be, and we're afraid of uncertainty.

开始新事物总是充满不确定性，你不知道它会是什么样子，人们害怕风险。

And there is so much uncertainty with with starting something new, and you don't know what it's gonna look like, and people are afraid of risks.

另一个原因是我们这个物种天生懒惰。

And the other thing is that we're as a species, we're lazy.

我们真的很懒。

We're really lazy.

所以我们真的不想开始工作、学习、做事。

So we we really don't wanna start working, learning, doing stuff.

哦，现在我得做这个了。

Oh, now I have to do this.

哦，我丈夫会处理所有这些事。

Oh, my my husband takes care of all that.

所有这些事情，这些借口阻止我们成长，阻止我们发现新领域，游戏的下一个级别。

It's like all that stuff, all these excuses that prevent us from growing, prevent us from discovering the new frontier, the the next level of the game.

因为这一切都是一场游戏。

Because this is all a game.

就像，我们生活在这个非常美好的，可以说是漫长的游戏中——取决于你怎么看，但我们在这里是为了尽可能多地体验各种课程。是的。

Like, we're we're living in this very nice, you could say, long game depending how you look at it, but we're here to experience as many lessons as we can Yeah.

成长、学习、发展并不断升级。

Grow and learn and develop and keep on upgrading all the time.

而且有太多人自从青少年时期就停留在同一水平，至今没有多大成长。

And it be so many people are just on the same level since they were, I don't know, adolescents or or teenagers, and they haven't developed much since.

也许他们找到了更好的工作，或者其他什么，但那都很肤浅，并不重要。

Maybe they got a better job, maybe whatever, but it's really superficial, and it's really it's not significant.

如果你真想体验这些，就必须追求更多挑战。

If you really want to experience this, you need to strive for more challenges.

你得付诸行动。

You need put in the work.

是啊。

Yeah.

你必须付诸行动。

You gotta put in the work.

而我认为，正是这让生活变得有趣。

And that's what makes life interesting, I think.

没错。

Yeah.

否则我们就这样死去，然后呢？

Otherwise, we just we die, and then what?

就是这样。

That's it.

反正我们终有一死。

Because we're gonna die anyway.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

有意思的是你提到游戏，因为我确实认为我们身处一个被操纵的游戏里。

Well, it's interesting that you said game because I do think that we are in a rigged game.

我之前跟别人打过这个比方——我对比特币抱有极大希望的原因之一就是它能实现公平竞争。

And I've I've mentioned this analogy to people before where one of the reasons I have so much hope in Bitcoin is it levels the playing field.

没人能操纵规则，也没有人能获得特殊优势。

There is no one that can rig the rules and no one that has a special advantage.

这让游戏实际上变得更有趣，因为这是一个真正按能力分配奖励的竞争

So it makes the game actually more interesting and fun because it's a real competition where merit is what is rewarded

说得对。

is right.

价值真正得到回报，而不是像我们现有体系那样——只要你在顶层就能获益

Where value is actually rewarded as opposed to our current system, which is like, if you're at the top, you benefit.

规则就是为你量身定做的

The rules are rigged for you.

所以现在全球玩家都在抱怨：这游戏不公平

And so, of course, you have a bunch of players now all across the world who are like, this game is unfair.

我不喜欢那些赢家，因为他们本不该赢

I don't like the winners because they shouldn't have won.

他们不配

They didn't earn it.

这太不公平了

And it's unfair.

分我一杯羹吧。

Give me a piece of the pie here.

给我重新洗牌的机会，因为我觉得自己被排除在外了。

Give me like some reorder reorder the the the chess set because I feel left out.

这就是为什么我认为自己能理解日益增长的民粹主义——普通人总觉得永远无法出头。

And that's why I think I relate to a lot of the populism that's increasing because for the average person, they're like, I'm never gonna I'm never gonna get ahead.

而那些家伙却踩着我的背越来越富有。

And these people just get richer and richer off my back.

因此我认为比特币就像解药，它能根治这种核心腐败——重新布局棋盘，让我们所有人能在更公平的场地上竞争。

And that's where I think Bitcoin is like that antidote to that core corruption where it resets the the game pieces, and it allows all of us to compete on a more fair board.

这就是我喜欢你新书标题的原因：《比特币属于每个人》，因为它确实对所有人开放。

That's why I love the title of your new book, Bitcoin is for everyone, because it is accessible for everyone.

没错。

Yeah.

你完全可以接触它，稍微了解下它。是的。

You are really able to just look at it, learn a little bit about it Yeah.

然后开始，边学边深入。

And start, and then learn more as you go.

它确实适合所有人。

It's really for everyone.

并不像人们想象的那么令人生畏。嗯。

It's not that daunting like people Mhmm.

把它说得那么难。

Make it to be.

你其实不需要成为金钱或交易专家就能入门。

And you really don't need to be an expert about money or trading in order to get into it.

而人们把它视为股票的整体印象...是的。

And the whole perception it has as a stock as something that is Yeah.

你知道，那个'永远上涨'的游戏概念，我认为这有点误导性，对我们试图将其打造为21世纪世界储备资产的目标并不利。

You know, the NGU game, it's it's a I think it's a little bit misleading and not great for for what we're trying to do to make this the the world's reserve asset for the twenty first century.

我相信，如果人们首先理解了私有财产的原则和价值——保护属于你的东西，拥有完全控制权，比如自我主权和对财产的完全掌控，并看着它随着你对资产运作方式的理解而增值，我认为会有更多人更快地接受它

And I believe that if people understood first the principles and the values of private property, of hedging what's yours, of having full control, like self sovereignty and full control over your property and seeing that appreciate with time as you learn how that asset is working, I think it would be so much people will go to it so much quicker and

嗯

Mhmm.

而且还有更多。

And so much more.

是的。

Yeah.

整个试图将其演绎成股票行情、只关注数字上涨的做法，在我看来并不是最佳的市场营销角度。

The the whole, like, trying to play it out as a stock and just the number go up is not the best angle in my opinion as a marketeer.

但同时我想说的是，我认为这背后也有某种意图。因为当你谈论游戏规则和系统被操纵时，自上而下的规则制定和财富分配方式，会让底层的人仰望着说'给我一些'。

But at the same time, I wanna say that I think there's an intention behind this as well because when you talk about the way the game is played and the system is rigged and the top down is kind of making the rules and throwing the wealth from up the top and everyone down the bottom is kind of looking up going, give me some.

给我一些。

Give me some.

这形成了一种思维定式和条件反射，让人们陷入'要么乞求更多，要么因得不到而愤怒'的受害者循环，并持续与上位者进行这种对话。

It creates that mentality and that that conditioning that keep people in that victimhood loop where where they need to continue either begging for more or being angry and upset for not getting more, and they continue that dialogue with whoever is on the top.

而真正的奴役存在于他们的脑海中。

And then the real slavery that exists is in their head.

他们就像是成为了系统的奴隶，不仅仅是因为他们显然必须朝九晚五地工作，这非常辛苦等等。

It's like they are becoming slaves of the system, not just because, obviously, they have to work nine to five and it's really hard and all that.

这就是我们成为现代奴隶的部分原因。

That is part of why we are modern slaves.

但另一方面，在意识层面，我们仍然将自己束缚在这个整体范式上：需要有人给予我，为什么给了他们而不是我？

But the other part is that, consciously, we are still shackling ourselves to this to this whole paradigm of someone needs to give me, and why did it did they give them and not me?

而且我还想要更多。

And I want more.

而且，哦，来了个新市长。

And, oh, there's a new mayor.

他会给我们带来什么？

What is he gonna give us?

那么是什么样的刺激呢？

And what kind of stimulus?

又是什么样的支票呢？

And what kind of checks?

还有什么样的福利呢。

And what kind of Yeah.

福利。

Benefits.

现在房贷期限延长了，从二十年变成了五十年。

And now the mortgage is growing, and instead of twenty years, it's fifty years.

哦，就像在说，给我。

Oh, like, give me.

给我。

Give me.

给我。

Give me.

这种心态对人类极其有害，因为它让我们持续依赖他人。

And that kind of mentality is so detrimental for for humans because it keeps us dependent.

它让我们始终无法自立。

It keeps us reliant on others.

这让我们始终处于匮乏和受害者的状态，与成为自主、强大并重获力量的个体相去甚远。

It keeps us being needy and victims, and it we are so far away from being sovereign and being powerful and reclaiming back our powers.

我们不断将这种力量和能量拱手让给他人。

We keep giving that power and energy away to someone else.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

即使在意识层面，我认为这里也有一场大型游戏正在进行。

Even on the consciousness level, I think there is a big game that is being played here.

这就是为什么在我的播客和其他场合，我总是呼吁人们不仅要学习比特币（这是我最希望他们做的事），还要提升他们的心理和精神状态——因为在我看来这两者相辅相成，他们需要摆脱许多我们作为人类被灌输的程序化和条件反射。

And that's why on my podcast and in other places, I always call people to not just learn about Bitcoin, which is the number one thing I want them to do, but to also work on their mental and spiritual state because it goes hand in hand in my opinion, and they have to kind of unlearn a lot of that programming and conditioning that we have we have been programmed to to to have as human beings.

我们也想挣脱这些束缚，因为它们是密不可分的。

And we we wanna break free of that too because that that goes hand in hand.

当你开始学习比特币并在生活中采取行动时，你必须变得更负责任、更强大、更信任自己，更像一个敢于冒险的人。

When you start learning about Bitcoin and taking actions in your life, you have to become more responsible, more powerful, more trustful of yourself, more it's like more a risk taker.

是的。

And Yeah.

掌握更多主动权。

Take more agency.

是的。

Yeah.

掌握主动权。

Take agency.

没错。

That's right.

所以这为你重新开启了一个充满可能性的领域，我认为这很棒。

So it it kind of opens a whole realm of possibility for you again, and and I think that that's lovely.

想接受比特币和稳定币支付吗？

Want to accept Bitcoin and Stablecoin payments?

Speed让这一切变得简单。

Speed makes it simple.

顾客可以通过应用内的二维码、线上或POS机进行支付。

Customers can pay via QR code in app, online, or POS.

Speed帮助Stake and Shake在全国范围内接受比特币支付。

Speed helped Stake and Shake accept Bitcoin nationwide.

以下是首席运营官Dan Edwards的评论。

Here's what Dan Edwards, COO, said.

当顾客选择用比特币而非信用卡支付时，我们节省了约50%的手续费。

And when customers choose to pay in Bitcoin instead of credit cards, we are saving about 50% in our processing fees.

这赢得了比特币用户更多支持，并带来了10%的收入增长。

This led to more support from Bitcoin users and a 10% revenue boost.

开始使用非常简单。

Getting started is easy.

在tryspeed.com注册或几小时内完成API集成。

Sign up at tryspeed.com or integrate the API in hours.

立即开始接受比特币支付。

Start accepting Bitcoin today.

访问speed.app/coinstories或扫描屏幕二维码下载Speed应用，使用优惠码coinstories10可获得5000聪的免费额度。

Download speed at speed.app/ coin stories or the QR code on the screen and use code coin stories 10 for 5,000 free sats.

BitKey是一款比特币硬件钱包，具备多重安全防护、继承功能和专为现实生活设计的恢复系统。

BitKey is a Bitcoin hardware wallet with multisix security, inheritance, and a recovery system designed for real life.

无需复杂设置，也无需助记词。

No complex setup and no seed phrases.

真正实现无压力的自主托管。

Just true self custody without the stress.

它被《时代》杂志评为2024年最佳发明之一。

It was named one of Time's best inventions in 2024.

使用优惠码stories可在bitkey.world享受20%折扣。

Use code stories for 20% off at bitkey.world.

接下来为您带来《比特币之道》。

Up next, the Bitcoin Way.

只有一种方法能保护您的比特币免受政府、政治家和第三方风险影响，那就是100%自主托管。

There's only one way to protect your Bitcoin from government, politicians, and third party risk, and that is 100% self custody.

我在《比特币之道》的朋友们将指导您如何第一次就正确掌握这项技能。

My friends at the Bitcoin Way will train you how to do this the right way the first time.

绝不妥协。

No compromises.

访问 bitcoinway.com/natalie 与专家交流，确保您的比特币安全且私密。

Go to the bitcoinway.com/natalie to speak with the experts about making sure your Bitcoin is secure and private.

最后，《币圈故事》由 Genius Group 赞助，这是一家在纽约证券交易所美国板块上市、股票代码为 GNS 的比特币储备公司。

And finally, Coin Stories is brought to you by Genius Group, a Bitcoin treasury company listed on the NYSE American, under ticker GNS.

Genius 正在构建一个10,000枚比特币的储备库，并刚刚推出了 Genius 学院，提供 Safedina Moose、我本人等专家的免费课程。

Genius is building a 10,000 Bitcoin treasury and just launched the Genius Academy, featuring free courses from Safedina Moose, myself, and more.

立即登录 geniusacademy.ai 开始学习。

Start learning today at geniusacademy.ai.

天才集团。

Genius Group.

天才不以智商衡量，而是以比特币衡量。

Genius isn't measured in IQ, it's measured in Bitcoin.

很高兴你提到这点，因为在了解比特币之前，我并未意识到生活中我们做每件事都需要获得他人许可，在一个高度管控、严格监管的环境里，这确实是你整天在做的事。

I'm glad you brought that up because before learning about Bitcoin, didn't realize how much in life we have to ask for the permission of others to do everything and in a highly controlled, highly regulated environment, that's literally what you're doing all day long.

甚至访问你的银行账户时，你可能都没意识到——当你买杯咖啡时，你实际上是在请求银行批准你使用自己的钱，这真的非常荒谬。

Even to access your bank, you're technically you don't even realize it, but when you're buying the cup of coffee, you're asking your permission, the bank's permission to send your own money somewhere, which is really, really crazy.

除了我读过的比特币书籍外，还有一本《四个约定》——不知道你读过没有，这本书给了我创作灵感。

And, you know, besides the Bitcoin books that I've read, there's a book I don't know if you've read it, but I took inspiration for my book from The Four Agreements.

你读过那本书吗？

Have you read that book?

读过。

Yes.

我读过。

I did.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我确实认为我们必须对自己负责，包括我们的思维方式、与人交流时的姿态——不过度揣测，尽力而为。

Because I do think that we have to take responsibility for ourselves, our mentalities, the way that we enter into any conversation with other people, not to assume too much, to do our best.

但很多人忽略了这点，我们被程序化生活困住，在激烈竞争中疲于奔命，有时忘了退后自省：我们是否真正活出了自由，是否最大程度忠于本心与价值观？

And that's lost on a lot of people because we do get so programmed and we're in the rat race and we're in the grind and we sometimes forget to step back and look at do we actually are we living our lives as freely and as truly true to ourselves and true to our values as we possibly can be?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为我们并没有做到。

I think we're not.

我认为对自由的追求可以成为人生中极好的北极星。

And I think the striving for freedom is can be a really great northern star in life.

它可以引导我们——就像我们之前讨论的那个游戏一样。

It can be the thing that leads you to we talked about that game.

让我们玩一个以追求自由为主题的游戏吧。

Let's play the game with striving for freedom.

如果那是我们的北极星，那么我们一生中将遇到无数需要反复面对这个问题的机会。

If that is our northern star, then we are going to meet so many opportunities in our life that we would have to confront that question again and again.

我在这里自由吗？

Am I free here?

我在那里自由吗？

Am I free there?

嗯

Mhmm.

就像，自由是观察生活的一个绝佳视角。

Like, freedom is a really good lens to look at life from.

而且，你知道，你提到了压迫和许可，以及我们当今日常生活中如何面对货币体系的问题。

And, you know, you mentioned oppression and and permission in how we we, you know, how how we meet with daily lives today when it comes to the monetary system.

由于我已经游牧了一段时间，是的。

And since I'm nomading for a while now Yeah.

我去过很多地方，最近去过的一个地方是巴厘岛。

I've been in so many places, and one of the last places I've been to is Bali.

在那里你会看到，比如在印度尼西亚，女性是不能拥有银行账户的。

And you see there that in Indonesia, the women, for example, they cannot have a bank account.

即使她们因为得到丈夫或父亲的许可而拥有银行账户——这是必须的——她们也必须在银行里存有一定金额的钱。

And if they do have a bank account because they got a permission either from their husband or their father, which they have to have, then they have to have a certain amount of money in the bank.

比如，如果她们的钱比丈夫多，就可能被关进监狱。

If they have more money than their husband, for example, they can be taken to jail.

是的，确实存在这种情况。

Like, there are yeah.

所以说到许可这件事，它是有程度之分的。

So, like, speaking of permission, this thing, there's a scale.

对吧？

Right?

这是一个光谱般连续的概念。

There's a spectrum.

如果你生活在西方世界，可能在自由特权和基于许可的生活方面处境会更好些。

And if you're in the West, maybe you're better off in terms of privileges of freedom and and permission based life.

但如果你身处全球南方或其他发展中国家，在银行或货币资产等方面可能根本没有任何自由可言。

But you're if you're in other places like the the global South or or developing countries, you may not have freedom at all when it comes to banking or monetary assets and things like that.

所以我们总是把很多事情视为理所当然。

And so we we take things for granted.

我们已经被编程成总是要寻求许可。

We are programmed to always ask for permission.

而我们身处这个循环中时，却意识不到自己实际上受到了多大的压迫。

And we while being in that loop, we don't understand how oppressed we really are.

是啊。

Yeah.

即便你身处西方世界，比如像我们这样——我有个博客，作为一名独立记者，过去我在法定货币体系里可是个大人物，赚了很多钱。

And even if you're on in the West, like us, for example, I have a blog, and I want as as an independent journalist, I used to be this fiat big shot, and I made a lot of money.

但现在我是个独立记者了。

But now I'm an independent journalist.

我几乎难以维持生计。

I hardly make it.

我赚不了多少钱。

I don't make much money.

不过，这也没什么。

And, and it's fine.

我并不是在抱怨。

I'm I'm not complaining.

这是我的选择。

This is my choice.

但我的一种变现方式是通过付费订阅者的支持来运营博客。

But I one of my ways to monetize is to have a blog with some support from paying subscribers.

嗯。

And Yeah.

我用Substack来实现这个。

I use Substack for that.

而Substack与支付服务公司Stripe相连。

And Substack is connected to Stripe, which is a financial services company.

Stripe有特定的KYC规则来规定如何接收款项。

And Stripe has certain KYC rules for how you can have your payments come to you.

所以我开了一个叫Wise的境外银行账户。

And so I opened a foreign bank account called Wise.

它是家网上银行。

It's online bank.

对吧？

Right?

我把Wise银行账户的详细信息输入到Stripe里，这是一家比利时银行。

And I keyed in my details of the Wise bank account into Stripe, and it's a Belgium based bank.

所以系统里有个比利时地址，当时是能用的。

So there's a Belgium address there, and it worked.

整整一年时间，我都能通过Substack从付费订阅用户那里收到款项。

And for one year, I've been getting money out of Substack from my paying subscribers.

非常感谢大家。

Thank you very much.

一年后，我收到Stripe的消息说：很抱歉，

After one year, I received a message from Stripe saying, sorry.

您不再符合KYC政策要求，因为系统里似乎没有登记您的居住地址。

You're not complying with the KYC policy anymore because it seems like your residential address has not been put into the system.

能否提供相关证明？

Can you give us a proof?

比如，他们又在要求许可。

Like, they're asking, again, permission.

给我们提供你住在比利时的证明。

Give us a proof that you live in Belgium.

我就说，我不住在比利时。

And I'm like, I don't live in Belgium.

我住在以色列。

I live in Israel.

我的业务是在以色列注册的。

My business is registered in Israel.

我是说，我不住在那儿，但我的业务是在以色列注册的。

I mean, I don't live there, but my business is registered in Israel.

他们说，抱歉。

They said, sorry.

我们不与以色列企业合作，所以不得不关闭您的账户。

We don't work with Israeli businesses, so we have to close your account.

我说，等等。

I said, but hold on.

什么？

What?

然后他们说，嗯，还有另一个办法。

And they said, well, there is another way.

你可以在另一个国家开银行账户，比如在美国。

You can open a bank account in another country, like in The US, for example.

我就说，等等。

And I'm like, but hold on.

我人生的全部追求就是自由。

My whole thing in life is freedom.

我们讨论过那个视角。

We talked about that lens.

我想尽可能减少与机构的接触，现在你却要我去美国开银行账户，搞这些麻烦事到底为了什么？

I wanna minimize my interfaces with institutions as much as I can, and now you're telling me to go to The US and open a bank account and do all that shenanigans just for what?

就为了用Stripe？

To work with Stripe?

就为了处理更多法币？

To to do more fiat?

嗯。

Mhmm.

我在追求主权独立。

I'm trying to be sovereign.

我正尽可能遵循比特币标准。

I'm trying to be on the Bitcoin standard as much as I can.

所以我告诉他们：非常感谢，Stripe。

So I told them, thank you very much, Stripe.

我不需要你们。

I don't need you.

我有比特币。

I've got Bitcoin.

我会想办法解决的。

I'm gonna figure this out.

我和ZapRite聊过，我就问，这事我该怎么办？

And I had a chat with ZapRite, and I'm like, how can I do this?

ZapRite是家公司，可能有人不知道。

ZapRite is a company, for those who don't know Yep.

他们同时支持法币和Grapevine支付。

That have payments both in fiat and grapevine.

对。

Yeah.

是Parker Lewis创立的。

Parker Lewis is behind it.

没错。

Exactly.

我和Parker谈过，讨论了实现方案后，我决定断开Stripe接入。

So I spoke to Parker, and it's like, we we talked about how I can do this, and I decided to disconnect my Stripe Wow.

还要告诉他们‘去你的’，然后把我的新Zap Rite链接放到账户上。

And to tell them f you and and to put the link to my new Zap Rite on my account.

我知道我会失去大约70%的付费订阅者，因为不是所有人都会这么做，毕竟Substack很方便。

And I knew I'm gonna lose, like, 70% of my paying subscribers because not everyone will do that because sub Substack is convenient.

所以我们确实为了创新或意识形态牺牲了便利性，但我很高兴做出了这个决定。

So we do sacrifice the convenience for for the innovation or the or the ideology, but I'm very happy to have done that.

哇。

Wow.

现在我有30%的付费订阅者通过ZapRite继续支持我，而且我用比特币收款。

And now I've got my 30% of my paying subscribers with me through ZapRite, and I get paid in Bitcoin.

如果他们用比特币支付，我会给他们折扣。

I give them a discount if they pay with Bitcoin.

如果他们坚持继续用法币支付，也没问题。

If they wanna insist on continuing paying with with fiat, no problem.

完全可以这样做。

You can do that.

但我会把所有链接都放在节目说明里

But I'll link all of this in the show notes

当然

for sure.

谢谢

Thank you.

是什么让你决定采取这种——我不想用极端这个词，因为极端带有负面含义——但你为什么想成为游牧民族并转向比特币标准？

What made you decide to take it to these not I don't wanna say the word extremes because I think extremes is a negative connotation, but why'd you want a nomad and go on to the Bitcoin standard?

因为这并不那么方便

Because it isn't as convenient.

哦，是的

Oh, yeah.

因为我感觉我的生活方式就是...我是说好吧

Because I feel like the way I live my life is to I mean okay.

我知道这听起来像是小题大做，但这就是我的真实感受

I know this is gonna sound like a big answer to a small question, but that's how I feel.

我在41、42岁时开始经历灵性觉醒，我告诉我的好朋友们，听着。

I when I was 41, 42 and started experiencing my spiritual awakening, I told my good, good friends, listen.

如果我明天早上被解雇了，没关系，因为我知道自己在这个旧世界、旧生活中已经尽责了。

If I get fired tomorrow morning, it's okay because I know I've done my duty in this old world, old life.

我正在开启新篇章，这个新篇章完全是为人类服务。

I'm starting a new chapter, and the new chapter is all about being of service to humanity.

所以这远比我个人更重要。

So this is bigger than me.

我没事的。

I'm I'm okay.

我会继续做我的事，但这一切的根本目的是激励他人发挥全部潜能，勇敢发声，用他们的声音来试图平衡我们在世界上看到的疯狂现象。

I'll keep doing my thing, but the whole purpose of this is to inspire other people to get to their full potential and to speak out and to use their voice in order to try and balance the insanity we're seeing in the world.

因此从今往后，我的生活会变得很不方便，但会更有意义、更具挑战性——我喜欢挑战——这将让我得到更大的成长。

And so my life is gonna be way less convenient from now on, but it's gonna be a lot more rewarding, a lot more challenging, which I like challenges, and it's gonna expand me even more.

我热爱这样的生活。

I love it.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是我这么做的原因。

So that's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

而且确实如此。

And it's yes.

可能不太方便频繁跨州或每周换酒店。

It may not be convenient to move states or hotels every two days or every week.

或者

Or

你现在就是这种频率吗？

Is that how much you're doing it?

比如上周在萨尔瓦多，我参加了三场会议、换了三家酒店，还有大约十次舞台亮相。

Like, the past week when I was in Salvador, I did three conferences, three hotels, like, 10 stage appearances.

在那之前是阿根廷，再之前是卢加诺，然后是布拉格，还有埃及和以色列，这三个月我几乎跑遍了各地。

And before that, Argentina, before that, Lugano, and before that, Prague, and before that, Egypt and Israel, like, I was all over the place in the last three months.

无论我走到哪里，我都会继续做我的播客，继续尝试写作，并尽可能多地登台演讲，因为我知道当我分享这些看似微小却能激励人们采取行动的故事时。

And I re and wherever I go, I continue doing my podcast, and I continue I try to write, and I appear on stages as much as I can because I know that when I share stories like that, that seem maybe small, but they inspire people to take action.

是的。

Yeah.

然后人们开始改变，他们会回来告诉我。

And then people change stuff, and then they come and tell me.

比如我在会议上见到他们，或者他们写信给我说，因为你，我做了这件事；因为你，我做了那件事。

Like, I see them in conferences or they write to me, and they say, because of you, I've done this or because of you, I've done that.

这很鼓舞人心。

That's inspiring.

或者他们只是问我在哪里可以买比特币，然后我就知道这一切是有效的。

Or they're just asking where do I buy Bitcoin, and then I know that it's working.

你想念以色列吗？

Do you miss Israel?

你觉得自己还会回去吗？

Do you see yourself going back ever?

我会时不时回去看望家人。

So I go back from time to time to see my family.

说到我儿子——这是故事的下一部分，正好补充关于我儿子的部分。

And since my son oh, that's the next piece of the story just to complete the thing about my son.

我们曾一起生活。

So we were living together.

在以色列时，我独自抚养他直到13岁。

I was raising him on my own until he was 13 in Israel.

10月7日战争爆发后，我们决定送他去澳大利亚和他父亲一起生活，因为他想和父亲住。

And when the war started after October 7, we decided to send him to his dad in Australia because he wanted to live with his dad.

好的。

Okay.

这对他、对我、对所有人来说都像是画上了一个句号。

And that was, like, closing a loop for him and for me, for everyone.

对我和他父亲来说这很棒，因为我们不想让他参军。

For me and for his dad, it was great because we don't want him to serve in the army.

我们不想让他再参与战争了。

We don't want him to take part in wars anymore.

我们不想继续喂养那个不仅剥夺我们自由，还夺走人们生命的法定货币怪兽。

We don't want to continue feeding that fiat beast that is robbing us not just from our freedoms, but also from people's lives.

说真的，就这样结束生命，是啊。

Like, seriously, just just ending lives Yeah.

没有真正合理的理由，只为了让那个叫法币的怪兽能继续维持下去，，而我已不再参与这场游戏了。

With no real good reason just so that beast called Fiat can continue sustain itself, and I'm done playing in that game.

所以我儿子已经离开以色列两年了，他现在非常快乐。

So my son is out of Israel and for two years now, and he's very happy.

我会回去看望家人，刚在以色列和他一起度过了三周。

And I go back to see my family, and I just spent three weeks with him in Israel.

我们回来度假，感觉真的很棒。

We came for the holidays, and it was really nice.

不过，是的，我还是会时不时回去。

But, yeah, I go from time to time.

嗯，你提到的那个野兽——军工复合体，是个贪婪而强大的存在。

Well, beast that you mentioned, the military industrial complex, it's a hungry, powerful one.

你认为比特币能否以某种方式帮助削减那个军事机器的资金，削弱那些帝国国家的权力？它们总是四处挑起冲突来喂养那头野兽。

Do you think that Bitcoin can somehow help defund that that military apparatus and remove the power of sort of the empire nations where they go in and there's always a conflict that they have to stir up to feed that beast?

是的。

Yeah.

我完全这么认为。

I absolutely think so.

我认为这需要极大的耐心，因为这是一场长期博弈，不会在未来几年内就见效。

I think it's just you need a lot of patience because it's a long term game, and it's not gonna happen, like, in the next few years.

这将需要几十年的时间。

It's gonna take a few decades.

但我经常思考这个问题，并试图抓住这种希望，因为在我的成长环境里，战争是生活的一部分，那样长大并不容易。

But I think about it a lot, and I try to hang on to that kind of hope because where I come from, war is part of life, and it's not easy to grow up like that.

当你反对战争时，当你认为我们不该无休止地争斗时，那种经历绝对不容易。

And it's definitely not easy to experience that when you're against that, when you think that we shouldn't be fighting all the time.

我相信比特币带来的范式转变所改变的激励机制具有极其强大的力量。

And I believe that the incentive structure that changes with with the paradigm shift that is Bitcoin is super powerful.

政府、国家和军工复合体无法或不再能以当前的速度和肆无忌惮的方式扩张——你知道我想表达的意思——是的。

The fact that governments, states, and military industrial complexes cannot or will not be able to grow in the speed and the recklessness recklessness you know how to say that Yeah.

他们目前的发展态势给了我很大希望。

That they are growing right now is giving me a lot of hope.

他们可以随意印钞，继续制造更多武器，研发更多战争技术。所谓的国防科技出口——他们称之为国防，实则是武器和网络安全等——在以色列过去四年里逐年增长，现在年出口额已达140亿美元。

They are they can just print money, continue making more arms, creating more technologies for war, and the export of of defense tech, they call it defense, which is really arms and and cybersecurity and all that stuff has risen year year after year in Israel for the past four years, and it's now the export is, like, $14,000,000,000 a year.

根据我最近查到的数据，这仅占全球军火贸易总量的2.5%。

Last time I checked, and this is only two and a half percent of the world's trade of arms and weaponry.

因此以色列被视为该领域的领军者之一，但参与这场残酷游戏的国家还有很多。

So Israel is considered to be one of the leaders, but there are many other countries in this game, and it's a really rough game.

人们看着这个行业会说：是啊，但它刺激了经济，让我们变得更强大。

And people looking at this industry going like, yeah, but it's stimulating the economy, and, yeah, it's making us stronger.

这一切都只是短期的权宜之计。

And it's it's all a patch for the short term.

这一切就像是，表面上经济在未来一两年内有所改善，但大崩溃即将来临，因为通货膨胀终究会掠夺你的财富。

It's all like, yeah, you feel like the economy is improving only for the next one or two years, but the big bang is coming because inflation is gonna rob you anyway.

从这个意义上说，什么都没改变。

Nothing changes in that sense.

是啊。

Yeah.

比特币在战争方面的另一个改变是，它能为国家，尤其是那些根本无法或几乎无法获得货币的地面民众提供另一种融资方式。比如在加沙，他们就没有中央银行。

The the other the other thing that changes with Bitcoin when it comes to wars is that it can provide another way to finance countries and especially people on the ground that have no access to money at all or hardly because, for example, in Gaza, right, they don't have a central bank.

他们没有自己的货币。

They don't have their own currency.

他们依赖以色列。

They are relying on Israel.

他们使用以色列货币谢克尔。

They use the shekel, which is the Israeli currency.

因此，他们不仅在与那个国家交战，还依赖着交战国的货币。

So not only they are in war with that country, they are also relying on the currency of the country that they're in war with.

由于过去两年处于战争状态，加沙90%以上的银行已被炸毁。

And since there was war for the last two years, 90 plus percent of the banks in Gaza have been bombed.

所以即使你有银行账户，现实中也没有实体银行可以办理业务了。

So even if you had a bank account, there is no physical bank anymore that you can actually interact with.

没有银行。

So no banks.

对吧？

Right?

所以你依赖的是现金。

So you're relying on cash.

现在想想从以色列流入的现金，你所依赖的现金是以色列的。

Now think about cash coming from Israel into and the cash you're you're relying on is Israeli.

所以你需要以色列允许现金流入，除非你只使用现有的流通货币。

So you need Israel to allow cash to come in unless you're using just a circulation of what is.

但当整个地方变成废墟时，连现金也会被掩埋。

But when the whole place is in rubble, then even the cash is being buried.

你知道吗？

You know?

这真的是一个毁灭性的局面。

Like, it's really a devastating situation.

举个例子，我知道听起来会很奇怪，但最近加沙出现了一种新型业务，就是回收纸币。

And there was just to give you an example, I know it's it's gonna sound weird, but there is this new type of business that has found its way in Gaza lately, which is to recover banknotes.

有些人实际上在清洗、熨烫并晾晒纸币，因为他们没有现金。

Like, there are people that are actually washing, ironing, and putting to hang banknotes because they don't have cash.

这就是人们所处的境况

Like, that's the situation people get find

是在废墟之类的地方找到的吗？

in, like, the rubble or something?

或者他们确实有现金

Or They have it.

只是这些纸币被使用得很旧了，因为他们得不到新钞票。

It's just very used because they don't get fresh cash.

对吧？

Right?

总之，他们确实能获取一些资金——我是说哈马斯通过不同渠道获得现金。

So, anyway, they do get some I mean, Hamas is getting cash, but in different ways.

我们不会深入讨论这个问题。

We don't we're not gonna go into that.

但关键是——我只是以加沙为例。

But the the point is and I'm just taking Gaza as an example.

这种情况可能发生在任何其他战区。

This can be in any other war zone.

也可能发生在世界上任何无法获得现金的地方。

This can be in any other place in the world where people don't have access to money.

比特币？是的。

Bitcoin Yeah.

只需要一部手机就能使用。

Can be accessed just with a mobile phone.

没错。

Right.

大多数人仍然拥有手机，他们既不需要银行的许可，也不需要政府的批准。

Most people still have a mobile phone, and they don't need not the permission of a bank, not the permission of a government.

他们不需要本国法定货币。

They don't need a legal tender in their country.

他们不需要自己的国家货币。

They don't need their own currency.

他们不需要依赖另一个国家。

They don't need to rely on another country.

他们只需要持有比特币即可。

They can just have Bitcoin.

所以你看，仅仅通过拥有这种全球通用的、任何人都能使用的货币，我们就消除了五个步骤的障碍。

So, like, five steps that we've eliminated just with having this global money that anyone can access.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以当你审视战争时，比特币能改变这一局面，这又是一个颠覆性因素。

So that's another game changer when you look at wars and how Bitcoin can can change that.

但我认为，显然，自由开放的通货紧缩市场与法币的通货膨胀市场相比，将在长期内改变我们对世界各地战争的看法。

But I think, obviously, you know, the free and open deflationary market versus an inflationary market of fiat is gonna make the long term difference in how we see wars around the world.

国家之间将更有动力合作而非对抗，许多比我更聪明的人已经讨论并撰写了相关观点。

And countries will be more incentivized to work together rather than working against each other, and much smarter people than me have talked about that and have written about that.

能发现这些信息并知道我们有一个充满希望的未来可以期待，我感到无比荣幸和快乐。

And I'm just so privileged and happy to have found all this information and know that there is a hopeful future that we can wait for.

想到这些全球冲突中发生的人类苦难让我非常难过，受苦的总是普通民众。

It makes me really upset to think about the human suffering that happens with all these global conflicts, and it's the people that suffer.

而精英阶层却总能借此敛财，是他们决定发动战争，也是他们在许多情况下决定让这些年轻家庭赴死，这种情况正在全球各地上演。

And the elites just manage to enrich themselves, and it's their decisions to go to war and their decisions to send these young families to their deaths in many cases, and it's happening all over the world.

有时候真的很难保持希望。

And I just I sometimes it's hard to have hope.

如果我不知道比特币，我可能会更加绝望。

And if I didn't know about Bitcoin, I probably would have less hope about

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

缓解那些拥有资源的人与努力工作却一无所有的人之间的压力和摩擦。

Alleviating some of that, like, pressure and this friction between those that have versus those that work and don't have.

人们怎么能如此互相伤害呢？

It's like, how can people hurt each other that much?

对吧？

Right?

比如，我们怎么会走到这一步——人们找各种借口，自我洗脑说开战没问题，然后盲目崇拜鼓吹战争的领导人。

Like, how how do we get to a place where people find excuses and they program themselves to say it's okay that we're going to war, and I'm just gonna listen, hero worship this leader that's saying this.

我就盲目追随他们。

I'm gonna blindly follow them.

如果我信奉某个领导人，那么所有反对他的东西我都不会支持。

And if I believe in this one leader, everything that goes against him, like, I'm not I'm not gonna be for.

这就像我们搞个人崇拜一样。

And it's like we we have hero worship.

对吧？

Right?

就像，你不能再保持中立或发声了，因为那样几乎会让你更加被排斥。

Like, can't speak out and sort of be in the middle anymore because you're almost gonna be more ostracized.

如果你追随某一位领袖或政客，你就必须认同他们所做的一切，即使他们实际上是在支持战争。

If you if you follow this one leader or one politician, you have to ascribe to everything that they do, even if they're literally supporting wars.

是啊。

Yeah.

绝对是这样。

Absolutely.

而且这种现象可以追溯到很久很久以前。

And this is this goes way, way earlier.

我认为此刻，在这个时间节点，我们正经历着人类历史上非常黑暗的时期。

I think we're really at the moment, in this point in time, we are experiencing very dark times in humanity.

我觉得我们正在目睹一场光明与黑暗的灵性战争，而那种黑暗存在于我们每个人心中。

And I think we are looking at a spiritual war of darkness versus light, and that darkness is in every one of us.

不幸的是，那些掌握权力的人——有人称他们为当权者，我更愿称他们为渴望掌权者或曾经的掌权者，因为我不愿相信他们仍在操控社会。

And, unfortunately, those who have the power, some call them the power that be, I call them the power that want to be or the power that the powers that were because I don't want to think that they control society anymore.

我认为已经有足够的精神觉醒能真正带来光明，但他们深知这点并加以利用，这种利用自古至今从未停歇。

I think there is enough of a spiritual awakening to really bring in the light, but they know that, and they take advantage of that, and they have been taken advantage of that forever and ever.

人类已被奴役数个世纪，长达数千年之久。

And humanity has been enslaved for centuries, for thousands of years.

最初的奴役形式与意识相关，它利用你的恐惧、情绪和游离的焦虑，并将其转化为愤怒与仇恨。

And the first type of enslavement is related to consciousness, and it's taking advantage of your fears, of your emotions, of your free floating anxiety, and transmuting that into anger and hatred.

这正是我们当下在全球目睹的景象，尤其在西方社会更为明显——社会日益两极分化，人们紧抓着领袖或政客抛出的任何借口，只为能说'啊，我现在有正当理由去仇恨、恐惧或发动战争了'。

And this is exactly what we're seeing playing out all around the world these days, especially more in the West now where societies are becoming more and more polarized and people are just clinging onto anything that a leader would throw them or the politicians would throw them in order to say, oh, I've got a good excuse to now hate on that or fear that or go to war against that because I'm fearing that.

没错。

Right.

而且这套把戏屡试不爽。

Or and and that works like magic.

就拿以色列为例，你知道，像10月7日这样的事件发生后，可怕的屠杀导致数千人丧生。

So in Israel, for example, you know, something has happened, like, for example, October 7, horrible massacres, thousands of people die.

我认为这类似于911事件时公众的反应。

I think it's similar to the response that have been in in the public, during nine eleven at the time.

你对所发生的一切感到极度恐惧。

You are so horrified by what has happened.

而他们向你展示的第一类敌人，要为这一切负责的，显然就是你的邻居。

And the first kind of enemy they show you that is responsible for all of this is obviously your neighbor.

而非来自上层的人。

No one from above.

比如，别问问题。

Like, don't ask questions.

别批评。

Don't criticize.

别试图思考为什么这种事会发生在像我本该安全、受保护、生活在世界科技网络军事最发达地区之一的地方。

Don't don't try and think why was this thing even possible to have happened in such a place where I'm supposed to be safe, where I'm supposed to be guarded, where I'm supposed to be living in one of the most advanced places in the world in terms of technology and cyber and army and all that stuff.

而如果你像我一样敢于质疑，就可能像你说的那样被排斥或辱骂——你本以为自己是享有言论自由的。

And if you do dare, like I did, for example, you can, yeah, like you said, be ostracized or or be called names and really, you know, you thought you had free speech.