女性赋能女性：蜕变之艺

感谢您加入我们，收听联邦俱乐部的又一期播客节目。

Thank you for joining us for another podcast from the Commonwealth Club.

晚上好，欢迎参加加利福尼亚联邦俱乐部的本次会议。俱乐部现已成立一百二十四年，一直致力于支持加利福尼亚州、美国乃至全球的公共事务。我们欢迎在座各位的到来。我是安妮·史密斯，担任俱乐部会员主导论坛的主席，这些论坛由各兴趣小组的志愿者组成。因此，我是这群志愿者团队的领导者。

Good evening, and welcome to this meeting of the Commonwealth Club of California, now celebrating its one hundred and twenty fourth year of existence in support of public affairs of the state of California, The United States, and the world. And we welcome all of you here. I'm Anne Smith. I am chair of the member led forums here at the club, the the the various interest group volunteers. And so I'm the leader of the volunteer pack.

我们希望确保您能享受并欣赏今晚的分享内容。请随时将您在此听到的内容传播出去，这不是什么秘密。我们也期待您常回来参与活动。今晚，北加州女性艺术核心小组是我们的合作伙伴。

We want to make sure that you enjoy and appreciate what you hear here. Please feel free to share what you hear here. It's not a secret. And we hope that you come back often. The Northern California Women's Caucus for the Arts is our partner in crime this evening.

这是联邦俱乐部主办的项目。您可能早些时候注意到俱乐部有一场租赁活动，我想是在周一，但那并非我们主办。我们也会出租场地。所以，并非所有在此举办的活动都代表我们的立场。

This is a hosted program of the Commonwealth Club. You may have earlier seen attention paid to a rental that was here at the club. I think it was on Monday, but it was not hosted. We also rent out our space. And so just because something is happening here doesn't mean that we are hosting it.

但今晚我们无比自豪地主办这场精彩活动。接下来您将听到这个充满活力的专题讨论，我们将聚焦转型的艺术——探讨职业转变、平衡工作与家庭、对抗冒名顶替综合征、以及迈向有意义改变的勇敢步伐。讨论组成员包括索耶·罗斯、黛比·钦、维拉·马斯洛娃和黛博拉·雷博克，她们各自在个人与职业转型中开辟了独特道路，而我将担任主持人。

But we're definitely hosting with pride this wonderful group. I'm going to you'll hear from this dynamic panel. We'll be focusing on the art of transformation, navigating career shifts, balancing work and family, battling impostor syndrome, taking bold steps toward meaningful change. You'll hear from a dynamic panel, this dynamic panel, with Sawyer Rose, Debbie Chin, Vera Maslova, and Deborah Rebok. Each has forged a unique path through personal and professional transformation, and I will moderate.

首先有请索耶。她是雕塑家、装置艺术家和社会实践艺术家，其作品聚焦当代社会议题。她曾获《纽约时报》专题报道，《时代》杂志和《Bust》杂志都报道过她的作品《承载之石》。

So I'm going to start with Sawyer. He's a sculptor, an installation, and social practice artist who uses her artwork to shine a spotlight on contemporary social issues. She's been featured in the New York Times. Her work on the carrying stones has been featured in the Times, Ms. Bust magazine.

她获得过包括帕芬基金会和创意能力基金在内的多项资助，还是皇家艺术学会会员，并曾任北加州女性艺术核心小组主席。让我们正式开始吧，索耶？

She's been awarded grants from foundations, including the Puffin Foundation and the Creative Capacity Fund. And she's a fellow of the Royal Society for Arts, and she's the past president of the Northern California Women's Caucus. So let's get started. Sawyer?

好的。非常感谢你，安妮。当然。嗨，大家好。感谢你们今晚的到来。

Alright. Thank you so much, Anne. Sure. Hi, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

见到你们真令人兴奋。我是索耶·罗斯。感谢你精彩的介绍。我今天要谈谈如何平衡工作、生活和家庭。希望能给你们一些实用的建议，比你们在Instagram上看到的更有用。

It's exciting to see you. I'm Sawyer Rose. Thank you for the beautiful introduction. And I'm here to talk about balancing work and life and family. And hopefully, to give you some actionable advice, that's a little more useful than what you get from your Instagram feed.

比如，你知道的，就像练习自我关怀和设定更好的界限。是的，显然一定要做这些事情。但我想带大家探讨一些更实用、更贴近现实的想法，让生活看起来更可控，有点像深入探讨具体怎么做。你们已经对我有所了解。我是一名艺术家，也是‘负重石项目’的创始人，这个项目结合雕塑和数据可视化，揭示女性劳动问题。

Like, you know, just like practice self care and have better boundaries. And, like, yes, definitely do those things, obviously. But I'd like to get us into some, maybe, some more practical, real world, ideas that can actually make lives feel more doable, kinda, like, get into the how tos of that. So you heard a little bit about me. I'm an artist, and I'm the creator of a project called the Carrying Stones Project, which combines sculpture and data visualization to shine a light on women's labor issues.

关注女性在生活中承担的有偿和无偿劳动。过去八年里，我收集了全美各地女性的故事和数据。然后，我将她们提供的工作时长转化为大型雕塑，用数据讲述她们的故事。所以，在我的工作中，我通常专注于让那些无形的劳动或工时变得可见，比如我们花在照顾孩子、老人、做家务、社区志愿服务等方面的时间。这就是我职业背景的概况。

So looking at the paid and unpaid, work that women do in their lives. And so over the past eight years, I've collected stories and data from women all across The United States. And then I translate the numbers of work hours that they give me into large scale sculptures that tell the stories with their data. So what I in my work, what I'm usually focused on is making that invisible label or labor visible, the hours that we spend caring for kids, elders doing housework, volunteering in our communities and so on. So, you know, my background, that's my background work wise.

家庭方面，显然在孩子还小的时候，我学到了很多关于兼顾工作和生活的经验。我有两个孩子。一边建立事业，一边抚养出色的孩子。向我们的摄影师打个招呼吧。那是我的孩子。

And then, like, family wise, I obviously learned a lot about juggling work and life stuff when my children were young. I have two children. Building a career while raising fabulous children. Say hi to our photographer. It's my spawn.

很棒。但你知道，你紧赶着截止日期，刚好是午睡时间，你懂的，这是一场无休止的忙碌。我学到最重要的一点是，靠透支自己生活是不可持续的。你根本做不到。

Fabulous. But, you know, you're squeezing deadlines. It's nap time, and you're you know, it's a nonstop hustle. And the thing I learned the most was that running on fumes is not a sustainable way to live. It you just can't.

时间和精力总是被推到极限。你无法一直这样生活。但我确实学到了一些可操作的策略，可以用来管理你的时间，兼顾家庭和有偿工作，真正减轻你的负担。现在我的孩子们长大了，我处于不同的阶段，思考着不同的问题。对吧？

Time and energy push to the max all the time. Or you can't live that way. But what I did learn is that there are actionable strategies that you can use to manage your time, with your family and your paid work, to really lighten your lip. So now that my kids are older, I am in a different stage, and I'm asking different questions. Right?

我和我丈夫正在考虑，我们的父母目前需要什么样的照顾？对吧？我们正处于这个阶段。现在我有了十几岁的孩子，你知道，就像，我该如何给予他们独立？我如何在不远离的情况下退后一步？

We're look my husband and I are looking at, like, what kind of care do our parents need at this point? Right? We're at that point. Now that I have teenagers, you know, it's like, how do I give them independence? How do I step back without stepping away?

对吧？他说，去吧，迈出那一步。没问题的。你可能也在思考一些重大问题。每个人生活中都会遇到大问题。

Right? He's like, go on and step. It's fine. And you are probably also asking big questions. Everybody has big questions in their life.

比如，如果我的健康状况发生变化怎么办？如果我的伴侣关系发生变化怎么办？我的财务状况呢？对吧？这些都是你一生中任何时候可能问自己的问题。

Like, what if my health changes? What if my partnership changes? My financial situation? Right? These are all questions you might be asking yourself at any point during your life.

然后如果这些情况发生变化，我如何继续为自己、家人、伴侣和工作付出？明白吗？所以今晚，我想分享的建议和意见，真的希望能针对工作和家庭、伴侣关系，无论是照顾者还是非照顾者，父母或非父母，职业生涯初期的人，还是晚年职业转型的人。希望这些对大多数人都有帮助。

And then if those things change, how do I keep showing up for myself and my family, my partner, my work? You know? So so tonight, I wanna the recommendations that I'm gonna share, the suggestions. I really wanna target, you know, work and family and partnership in a way that's for caregivers and noncaregivers or parents, nonparents, people who might be at the start of your career, people who are making a career transition later in life. Like, this hopefully will be helpful for most of you.

既然我们已经谈到了孩子的话题，我就直接深入讨论。让我们聊聊年轻父母。我不知道在座的有没有年轻父母，但我知道有祖父母在场。所以这给了你们一些思考的内容，或许可以分享给年轻一代，如果这是你们的角色。

So because we were already talking about the kids stuff, I'll dive right into that. Let's talk about young parents. I don't know if we have any young parents in the room. I know we have grandparents in this room, though. So it gives you something to ruminate about and perhaps share it with the younger generation if that is your place.

再次强调，界限。分享时我们需要界限。但是，我给准父母的首要建议是，看在上帝的份上，在孩子出生前进行重要对话。讨论生活会是什么样子，有哪些工作需要完成，哪些工作需要分担或分配。如果等到深夜喂奶和尿布漏了的时候，你就不会有心思去仔细思考这些了。

Again, boundaries. We wanna have boundaries when we share. But, my number one tip for parents to be is to have the big conversations before the baby comes, for the love of God. Talk about what life is gonna look like, what work is what work is there to be done, what work is gonna need to be shared or distributed. If you wait until the late night feedings and the poopy diapers leak, you're not gonna be in the headspace to be able to think through that carefully.

而且，很多人会带着很多假设进入这种情况，可能是从原生家庭带来的，但这些可能不适用于你们两人希望共同建立的家庭。所以，你们需要在一个良好的状态下讨论这些事情。比如，这里的一切应该如何运作？但是，即使你的孙子孙女已经在摇篮里，甚至是在幼儿床、大男孩床上，还是要进行对话，还是要做。这仍然是值得的。

And also, lot of people bring a lot of assumptions into a situation like that, maybe, like, what they brought from their family of birth that might not apply to the family that you two are hoping to build together. So, you know, you need to be in a good place to discuss those things. You know, like, how's how's everything supposed to work around here? But, you know, even if your or your grandchild, you know, if the if the grandchild is already in the cradle or even in the toddler bed, the big boy bed, still have the conversation, still do it. It's still worth doing.

从一开始就这么做会简单得多。完成之后——其实这适用于所有人，不仅是父母——我在家庭单元中创造平衡最爱的策略是优先安排重要事项。我和丈夫在孩子还很小的时候就开始这么做了。你以为自己能兼顾家庭时光、二人世界、独处时间还有自己的事情，但现实往往事与愿违。

It's just easier if you do it from the get go. And then once you've done that, and this actually now, like, applies to everyone, not just parents, my favorite strategy for creating balance within a family unit is to schedule the important stuff first. My husband and I started doing this, like, when the kids were really tiny. You think you're gonna try to fit in the family time and the just us time and the alone time and, you know, my own stuff time. Like, you think you're gonna fit that all in, but, you know, it doesn't really happen.

生活总有办法冲淡这些计划。琐事总是最先被完成。所以如果你先把重要事项放进日历，再围绕它安排其他事，完成的概率会大很多。另外，当这些事项被固定后，看看剩余时间再决定是一起完成还是按喜好分配。分工不一定要绝对平均。

Every you know, life just has a way of washing over all that. Errands get done first. So if you put it in the calendar first and then schedule around it, you are much more likely to get it done. So also, you know, once once you have that scheduled in, take a look at what's left and decide whether you're gonna do it together, you're gonna divvy it up however you like. It you know, division of labor doesn't need to be an even steven kind of thing.

只需要评估每个人的工作量，可以按小时计算如果合适，确保分配公平合理并获得共识。不必完全均等，但要公正，且符合共同分担者的意愿。如果每个人周末都说'我有好多事要做'，那些事就会被完成，而情感联结的事反而被挤到最后。这非常切合我的工作理念。

You just need to look at, like, what everybody's workload is, maybe hour by hour, if that's a good way to look at it, and make it equitable and agree. So not even, but equitable, fair, and to the taste of whoever you're splitting it with, you know. But definitely, if everybody says if everybody comes into the weekend going, I've got a lot to do, that's what's gonna get done. And the connection stuff is what's gonna get the scraps at the end. So this is very apropos to my work.

两分钟。两分钟。很好。现在是个绝佳时机提醒大家：所有劳动都是劳动。所以在计算家庭分工时，务必确保无形的无偿劳动能得到与有偿劳动同等的重视。

Two minutes. Two minutes. Great. This is a great time to remind you that all work is work. And so when you're doing the calculus of dividing up your labor in your house, you really wanna make sure that the invisible unpaid labor gets the same amount of attention as the paid labor.

这方面绝不能分心。这直接关系到转变。无论你是渴望改变，还是感到停滞想尝试新事物，或是被迫改变（比如新生儿、换工作、搬家、健康问题），你都应该以简单方式重组生活，避免得不偿失。我建议首先计算时间，这是我们项目的做法。

You don't wanna get distracted there for sure. And so this leads right into transformation. Because whether you are craving a change or you're feeling stuck and inspired, you wanna do something new, or change has been thrust upon you, like, you know, new baby, a change of job, a new city, a health situation, You really wanna, like, try to reorganize your life in a simple way that's not gonna give you more trouble than it's worth. So the first thing I would recommend is count your hours. This is what we do in my project.

我说完了吗？

And am I done?

继续。

Keep going.

好的。这就是我们在我项目中的做法。每个参与过我项目并记录时间的人，无论是带薪劳动、无偿劳动还是其他事项，都对自己一天的实际工作感到震惊。他们从未真正意识到自己的工作量有多大。所以先这样做，然后进行简单的整理，比如弄清楚哪些事情真正重要，哪些只是在拖累你。

Okay. This is what we do in my project. And every single person who's participated in my project and tracked their hours, paid labor, unpaid labor, everything else, has been absolutely surprised at what they do all day. They did not realize what their workload actually looked like. So do that and then do a little simple organization, like figure out what really matters and what's just weighing you down.

看看是否有可以剔除的内容。然后，再次强调，把重要事项安排在一天之初。将这些事融入你的生活，其余的事情可以见缝插针。第三点我要说的是：选择一个微小改变，可能是你要调整或重组的一件事，记住真的只要一件。也许你的早晨总是手忙脚乱。

See if there's anything you can take out. And then, again, schedule those important things at the start. Schedule those things into your life, and then the rest can fill in. And then the third thing I would say is pick one baby step, something you're gonna change, something you're gonna reorganize, but literally one thing. Maybe your mornings are crazy.

也许你还没开始做膳食计划。这周就选一件事来改变。别当那种贪多求全的A型人格。这是马拉松，不是短跑。专注做好一件事。

Maybe you're not doing the meal planning. Pick one thing this week. Don't be a type a overachiever. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Pick one thing.

重新规划它。看看是否能为你释放些脑力空间。

Reorganize it. See if it gives you some brain space.

说得很好。释放脑力空间。明白了。

That's good. Take brain space. Okay.

好的。谢谢你。

Alright. Thank you.

太棒了。谢谢你。黛比·秦拥有三十多年杰出的职业生涯，她既是艺术行政管理者、艺术活动家、非营利组织顾问，也曾担任多家机构的CEO，最近还成为了一名作家。嗯...为什么你现在要当作家呢？

Yay. Thank you. Debbie Chin has a distinguished thirty plus year career as an arts administrator, an arts activist, a nonprofit consultant, and late and a CEO for a number of organizations, and lately, an author. Mhmm. Why are you an author now?

我马上就来。嗯。是的。安妮没说的是，没错，我曾担任过CEO，并在艺术机构间辗转。但你们不知道的是，我三岁时第一份工作是在父母经营的夜总会卖香烟。

I'll I'll come in a minute. Mhmm. Yeah. So what Anne didn't say is, yes, I've been a a CEO and and I've been moving through arts organizations. But what you what you don't know is my first job was at the age of three selling cigarettes at my parents' nightclub.

告诉你们，当你学会如何推销，能用45美分把一包Winston香烟换成Tiparillo雪茄时，你就具备了进军筹款界的潜质。当时我并不明白这点——刚才被打断了——总之我的人生轨迹并非直线。我想在座多数人的道路也都非直线，因为正如索瑞所言，总有些际遇会改变你。

And let me tell you, when you learn how to upsell and can sell a Tiparillo for a pack of Winston's for 45¢, you can go into the world of fundraising. So I didn't know that. I was just cut off for that. But, but so what so my arc has not been linear. And I think most of you probably don't have very linear paths because something is, Sory was saying something comes in that that changes you.

卖完香烟后，我父母说'你很有天赋'，于是六岁时我就坐在酒吧里，往樱桃和菠萝上插牙签和小伞。我乐此不疲，因为色彩缤纷。那时是六十年代，人们下午三点下班，所以午后酒吧就挤满了人。顾客们会赞赏我的牙签艺术。

But, you know, when I've after I sold cigarettes, I my my parents said, you're you're really good. You should go sit at the bar at the age of six and put toothpicks and umbrellas into cherries and pineapples. And I did. I loved it because it was so colorful, and people would sit the bar next to me and and this is the nineteen sixties, by the way, when people got off of work at 03:00, and so the place was packed in the afternoon. And, people would admire my toothpick art.

他们会说'真漂亮'，我就问'还要再来一杯吗？'于是他们又点了酒。父亲说'留在吧台，你是招财童子'——我就这样提高了利润率。

And they would say, oh, that's a beautiful thing. And I would say, you want another? And so they order another drink. And my father said, stay at the bar so you're good for business. So I improved our profit margins.

这让我六岁就明白自己无所不能。但十一岁时，身为企业家的父亲——我最大的灵感来源——他有个愿景：要把这家朴素的中餐馆改造升级。要知道1959年夏威夷建州后，六十年代掀起了整个南太平洋风潮。

But so that just taught me that I can do anything by the time I was six. But by the time I was 11, my father who was an entrepreneur was was my biggest inspiration. He decided he had a vision he would take this very simple, modest Chinese restaurant. And you know what happened in nineteen sixties? Hawaii became a state in 1959, and therein began the whole explosion of South Seas in Hawaii.

于是十一岁的我成了草裙舞者。虽然后来进入企业工作让生活变得平淡——在银行、保险公司做过法务服务——但我始终通过志愿服务来安抚灵魂。关键是要通过志愿工作建立人脉，我确实这么做了。

So I became a hula dancer at the age of 11. Be that as it may, my life got more dull after that when I became became worked in the corporate workforce. But all throughout the nine to five job of working, in a in a bank and insurance company, corporate service for attorneys, it was, it's necessary for me to anchor that with anything that soothed my my soul, which was to volunteer. This is the big thing, is to volunteer to build your networks. And I volunteered.

我朝九晚五卖大衣卖保险，傍晚六点到午夜就为剧院打杂：挂灯光、搭布景、端咖啡。每个非营利组织都需要帮手，需要你们说'我能帮忙'。由此建立的关系会将你推向新高度。稍后在我的圆桌讨论中，我会重点谈谈战略 networking。

I worked from nine to five selling coats and selling insurance. And then six to midnight, I would volunteer for any theater company that would have me hang lights, build sets, serve coffee. Every nonprofit organization needs extra set of hands, and they need all of you to kind of say, I can help do something. And with that, you form some relationships that'll take you to the next level. And one of the things I'm gonna talk about at my table, which is strategic networking.

要知道，这并非那么简单的事。它往往在你毫无察觉时发生。当你开始通过不同渠道与人建立联系时，我总鼓励人们开始构建自己的维恩图。你可能有一个关于家庭的图，一个关于大学校友的图，还有关于体育圈的图。过段时间后，当你退一步观察，这些图会产生交集，而你会发现这些交汇点蕴藏的丰富机遇，能助你跃向新的可能。

You know, it's it's not something as as simple. It actually happens when you don't even look. And by virtue of the fact that you start to connect with people through different lanes, I always encourage people to start building your Venn diagrams. You might have a diagram with your family, your diagram with your alums at your at your college, sports people. And after a while, when you pan back after a while, those diagrams should intersect, and you will find richness in those intersection points that will help you springboard to another opportunity.

安妮曾问，为什么？为什么我会成为作家？这是个好问题。我从未立志成为作家。三十年来我一直担任艺术机构的CEO，直到后来我开始感到疲倦，真的开始怀念我的...

Anne asked, why? Why am I an author? It's a good question. I never intend to be an author. I've spent thirty years running arts organizations as CEO, and I sort of got tired of I really I began to miss my my my.

艺术家岁月。疫情期间，我开始撰写一本关于我的家族史的书，讲述我的移民家庭故事。我想歌颂移民对这个国家的贡献，包括我的家族。同时想反驳那些将新冠病毒等种种恶行归咎于华人的论调。于是我深入展开这个长达十年的项目，记录我的家族故事。每次访谈都让我发现'某某认识你阿姨'、'某某是你表亲'，就这样我逐渐深入更多对话。

Artist days And I, during the pandemic, I started to write a book about my family, my family history of my family of immigrants, and I wanted to talk about the good things that immigrants have done to this country, including my family. And I wanted to counteract the narrative that the Chinese were responsible for all sorts of bad things, COVID virus and all that kind of stuff. And so I began to do a deep ten finish a ten year project, which is to talk about my my family. And each of those conversations led me to so and so knows your aunt, so and so knows your cousin. And I began to wade my way through more conversations.

我的书于2022年出版后，我开始了巡回演讲——包括在这家联邦俱乐部的分享——从中了解到书中哪些内容最能引起共鸣。人们说'这些故事必须跳出纸面，需要被看见'。所以现在，我正在将其改编成电影。68岁的我，就这样成为了电影制作人。

What I my book was published in 2022, and I went on to speaking engagements, including here at the Commonwealth Club, by the way, and and learned a lot about what resonated in the book. And people said, this has gotta come off the page and what people have to see it. So now what I'm doing is I am now adapting into a film. And now I'm a filmmaker at the age of 68.

您为何选择成为制片人？

Why did you become a producer?

我想说的是，我现在完全进入了电影制作这个全新领域。对这个行业我一无所知——说实话我连电视都不看，不看Hulu，不看任何流媒体。

So so all my way of saying is what I'm I'm in a whole new industry as a filmmaker. I'm I know nothing about this this industry. By the way, I don't even watch TV. I don't watch Hulu. I don't watch that stuff.

现在我必须学习全新的专业词汇。一年前刚开始这段旅程时，我根本分不清纪录片、剧情片和流媒体剧集的区别。但奇妙的是，年轻时建立的人脉网络正以意想不到的方式发挥作用——现在合作的编剧，就是通过朋友的朋友的朋友介绍的。

So I'm now in a world where I have to learn this vocabulary. I didn't know the difference between a documentary and a narrative and a streaming series. I had no idea a year ago is when I started this journey. And what I've learned is those networks that I built when I was very young, they have come back in very strange and wonderful ways. Because the screenwriter that I'm working with is somebody that was introduced to me from a friend of a friend of a friend.

于是我冒险答应了，说好，我愿意和你共进午餐。结果发现，她竟来自我的同乡长岛，常去邻镇那家波利尼西亚夜总会。原来她认识那位火舞者，认识那些波利尼西亚舞者。

And I took a chance and said, yes. I'll I'll have lunch with you. And turns out, she is from the same hometown that I was in on Long Island and frequented the next Polynesian nightclub in the town next door. Turns out she knew the fire dancer. She knew the the the Polynesian dancers.

她对我说，对了，我学过草裙舞。我问是谁教的？她说是个叫莉亚的女人。我惊呼莉亚是我们乐队的领队！这已是五十年前的往事了。

And she said to me, oh, by the way, I I learned hula. And I said, who taught you hula? She said, oh, some woman named Leah. I said, Leah was a leader of our band. This is fifty years ago.

你永远不知道这些联系何时会显现。我常鼓励人们保持好奇心，要相信只需一次握手就能建立关键人脉。在这个有时残酷的电影行业里，我何其幸运总有人伸出援手提醒：'考虑过和那边的人聊聊吗？' 我还学会了大胆说出诉求。

So you never know when these things start to connect. And what I encourage people is to be curious and to think you're just one handshake away from getting to that relationship you need to take it to the next level. And being in this film industry, which is can can be kind of cutthroat. What I have been so fortunate to experience is this hand reaching out to mine to say, have you thought about talking to those people over there? I've also learned to declare what you want.

尽管放手去做。我公开宣称想把这拍成电影，虽然毫无经验，但就想知道从哪里起步？若对一年前的自己建言，我会说：开始存钱吧，为日后无数午餐会谈做准备，因为我要——

Just be bold with it. I said, I wanna make this into a film. Don't know what I'm doing, but I want where do I start? And and what I've also learned to to to what I what I would have told my younger self a year ago is start to save some money so you can begin to have lunches because I'm going

去

to a

参加大量午餐会。午餐经费！差旅经费！可能还要奔赴电影节。这就是我正在构建的人脉网络，通过不断邀请人们喝咖啡或共进午餐。

lot of lunches. Lunch money. Lunch money. You may have to travel and go to some festivals. So this is the infrastructure that I'm learning how to build as I take the opportunity to invite people lunch or coffee.

这些细节如同黄金般珍贵。现在，距离获得电影融资所需的关系，或许只差一次握手。虽然希望渺茫，但必须坚持到底。

Those sorts of things are are gold. And I am now one handshake away from getting to the kind of relationship I need to maybe maybe finance the film. It's a long shot. It's a long shot. But you gotta you gotta just keep at it.

那么为什么有些人擅长网络社交而有些人却不擅长呢？因为这并非与生俱来的能力。我曾与我姐姐交谈，她对我说，你知道，你在社交方面真的很在行，这对你来说轻而易举。而我回答，我天生就对他人充满好奇。

Now why is it that some people are good at net networking and why some aren't? Because this doesn't come naturally. I had a conversation with my sister, and she said to me, you know, you're so good with networking. You're so so it comes so easy to you. And I said, I'm naturally curious about people.

她说，哦，这就是区别所在。我受不了与人打交道。所以试着去爱一个人并投入其中，因为这样会为你打开人际网络的大门。

She said, oh, that's the difference. I can't stand people. So try to love somebody and lean in because that way, it'll open up your networks.

这是个好主意。试着去爱。而且穿着最高的高跟鞋和最长的礼服，那太棒了。Vera Maslova是一位合作与筹款专家。上次我们见面时，你刚获得签证确认。

That's a good idea. Try to love. And in the the in the highest heels and the longest dress, that's great. Vera Maslova is a partnership and fundraising specialist. And she the last time we met, you just gotten confirmation of your visa.

是的。就像现在，这些日子我们都知道，嘿，这并不容易。所以我们当时在为此祝贺她。她为企业及文化机构提供合作与投资者关系服务。

Yes. It was like, now not these days, we know, hey. You know, it ain't so easy. So we were congratulating her about that. She offers a partnership and investor relations services to businesses and cultural organizations.

作为筹款人，她已筹集数百万美元资金，同时她也是我们最喜爱的——哎呀，我就知道我会说错。

A fundraiser. She's raised millions of dollars, and she's a board member also of one of our favorite oops. I I knew I was gonna blow it.

我们很兴奋。

We're excited.

我最爱的非营利组织之一，Letter Forum档案馆，我想他们是在第三大街吧？那么你的观点是什么？你认为自己为何能产生影响？

One of my favorite nonprofits, the Letter Forum Archive on I think it's Third Street is where they're located. So what is your view? Why do you think you've been able to make a difference?

我在想，安娜，非常感谢你。我拿到了签证，听完大卫的演讲后，我开始想要孩子了。是的。我很想分享一下关于冒名顶替综合症的事。非常感谢邀请我。

I I was thinking, Anna, thank you so much. I got a visa, and after David's talk, I'm thinking, now I want kids. Yeah. I would love to share about the imposter syndrome. And thank you so much for having me.

我知道可能很多人已经了解这个现象，但也有人不知道。我只是想分享一下它是什么。就是我们持续感觉自己不够好，认为成功不属于自己，即使有成就也觉得只是运气好。内心总有个声音在说：'你还不够格，你不配待在这里。他们迟早会发现我根本没他们想的那么有能力。'

And I know that maybe I'm I'm sure a lot of people knows about it, but maybe somebody doesn't. And I wanted just to share what it is. It's when we consistently feel that we're not enough, when we think that our successors is not actually ours and if we have any achievements that they think that it's just a luck And then there is a voice that is telling inside you that, oh, you're like not enough, it's not your place. And then they would find out that actually I'm not capable of what they think. They thought that I am capable.

这种感受非常令人心碎，因为它质疑的不是我们的能力，而是我们的存在价值。我深有体会。我想问问大家，在为人母、职业转型或当下过渡期时，是否听过这种声音？过渡期。我觉得这和我们今天的主题很契合。

And this is very heartbreaking feeling because it doubts not our skills, but kind of our identity. And I felt it a lot. And I actually want to ask you if you ever heard this voice in your maybe motherhood or maybe changing your work and maybe now you're in transition. Transition. I think like a lot of this is our topic today.

听过这种声音的人可以举手示意。哇，黛博拉，你也听过。

Maybe you raise your hand, whoever heard this voice. Oh, wow. Deborah, yours.

是的，完全有。

Yeah. Absolutely.

谢谢。是的，我们都经历过。这种声音在三年前我搬离莫斯科来到旧金山时最为强烈。

Thank you. Yeah. We're all we're there. And this voice maybe was the strongest. Three and a half years ago, I moved from Moscow to San Francisco.

事实上，之前在莫斯科时我带领着十人团队，是位事业有成的女性，主办过大型活动，负责所有邀约。那时我觉得自己游刃有余。

And actually, before in Moscow, I had a team. I was very accomplished women. The team was, like, 10 people. I was hosting huge events and, like, all the invitations. And I thought, like, oh, now I'm sad and always good.

但随后战争爆发了，我决定搬家。当我来到新的国家、新的城市时，没有任何亲密关系，一切从零开始。全新的语言、不同的环境——从东海岸到西海岸，对公司等一切都不熟悉。我开始为一位老太太做饭，并打扫公寓。

But then the war happened and like I kind of decided to move. And then when I came to the new country, the new city, didn't have like close relationship and it's literally starting from the scratch. And it's always like pretty new language, different context. East West Coast, you don't know like the companies and everything. And I just started cooking for one old lady and cleaning the apartments.

至今记得每小时15美元的现金工资。嗯...我内心有个声音异常强烈：这就是我的全部能力吗？也许我不属于湾区，不属于硅谷，不属于旧金山。

I still remember $15 per hour in cash. Mhmm. And and I just this voice was so strong in me. Like, is it everything that I'm capable of? Maybe I don't belong to Bay Area, to Silicon Valley, to San Francisco.

或许对我帮助最大的是，我意识到治愈冒名顶替综合征的解药是信念。虽然我们总听到'要相信自己'这样的话，但实际很难做到——当你感觉自己一文不值，就像被困在黑暗的房间里。

And maybe what helped me the most, and I realized that kind of antidote for impostor syndrome is a belief. And I mean, we all hear like, oh, you should believe in yourself and everything. But I think it's so hard. Like, you feel you're nothing. You're just in the dark room.

无人可倾诉，无法求助。我意识到信念是有层次的，很感谢这次讨论让我重新思考这点。第一层可能是微小的信念火花，我们必须告诉自己：你有能力做到。

You can't talk to anyone. You can't ask help. And I realized that, like, belief maybe has a different layers. And I'm actually grateful to this panel that I kind of also reminding myself about it. And maybe the first layer is a kind of a tiny belief, like a spark of belief that we really have to tell ourselves that we are capable of, that you can make it happen.

我在浴室镜子上写下'勇敢些，你能做到'。有人看过《上班女郎》吗？我把女主角当作某种榜样。真正的力量在于每日坚持，通过最微小的事自我激励——即使外界无人给予肯定。而更重要的第二层，是让自己被相信你的人围绕。

And I wrote in my bathroom in the mirror that bravery and you make it happen. Maybe somebody has watched the movie, Working Girl. If you haven't, I watched it a few times and wrote it down as a in some way, like, a a role model. But it's truly that just ourselves pushing in that and just, like, in every day and, like, in small smallest things to remind ourself and to give yourself encouragement even there is no one outside that can give it. But the second that may be even more important, it's actually to surround yourself with people that believe in you.

这听起来容易，实则与战略性社交密切相关。在我们最自我怀疑时，这些人会成为镜子——通过他们的眼睛，你重拾对自己的信念。我最好的朋友塔蒂亚娜始终支持我，这非常强大。

And it maybe sometimes sounds easier. I think it's very connected with strategic networking. Because sometimes, and it's the hardest maybe moments when we don't believe in ourselves, but then these people are becoming like a mirror And through their eyes, your belief in yourself comes back. And I think that was very, very powerful. My closest friend, Tatiana, is here always supporting.

即使我说'我做不到'，她也会说'不，你可以'。另一关键是要疏远那些不相信你的人。有时我们过度关注前者而忽略后者，最痛心的是这些人可能是至亲，比如父母或伴侣。

Even I'm saying, I can't do that. She said, No, no, no, know you can. And I think maybe another part of it is actually maybe building more distance with people that don't believe in you. Because sometimes we're focusing on first and not focusing on second. And sometimes even more painful is that it can be our closest people even like parents or partners.

或者说，我确实认为当我们处于过渡期时，与这些人保持更大的距离对自我建设至关重要，因为这种自我信念是如此脆弱，需要我们加以保护。正因如此，我们需要让这些人离得更远。第三点，我认为信念就像一台投影仪。我帮助不同阶段的初创企业筹款，担任非营利组织的执行董事，接触过各类领导者。有时我观察到，他们内心并不真正相信会有人捐赠或投资。

Or I do believe when we're in transitional period, it's important for ourself to build as bigger distance with these people because this belief in yourself is so fragile that we need to protect it. And that's why we need to make this people further away. And the third, I think belief is a kind of a projector. I am helping to fundraise startups on different series and executive directors of nonprofits and different leaders. And what I observe sometimes, they don't believe inside them that someone would donate or invest.

我能感受到强烈的抗拒感。我告诉他们可以做这个做那个，但他们总能找到各种理由不去执行。

Like, I feel this huge resistance. I'm saying, like, you can do this and that and that. And they find different ways not to do these things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我希望他们不要厌恶他人。筹款时应该保持好奇心。但我告诉他们：如果你个人投入了时间、所有资源乃至真心，那么在这个广袤世界里，至少会有一个人同样相信它。你需要找到那个人。我坚信人们投资或捐赠不仅是为了某个想法，更是为了背后所承载的信念。

I hope they don't hate people. You should be curious when you're fundraising. But I feel and what I'm telling them that, hey, if you personally, you give your time, you give all your resources, you give your own heart, then there is definitely at least one person in this huge world that would also believe it. And you need to find that one person. And I truly believe that people invest or donate not only in their ideas, but in beliefs that are behind it.

这在某种程度上像是自然的驱动力。很难相信三年半真的就这样过去了。去年我实际筹集了950万美元，还参加了市长荣誉晚宴。我知道。嗯。

This is like the driving source of nature in some way. And it's hard to believe really three and a half years are over. I've really raised 9 and a half millions last year, was on their integration dinner of the honored mayor. I know. Mhmm.

他很快要发表演讲。发生了许多美好的事情，我建立并收获了无数珍贵关系。但即便现在，我内心仍有个声音在不断提醒自己：继续保持信念，审视并滋养你的社交圈。第三点，记住你的信念是照亮前路的光，只需信任这种感觉。

He has a speech soon. And there are a lot of great things happened. I've learned and built so many incredible relationship. But even now, I, do have this voice and I'm, yes, telling myself, keep believing in yourself, watch like your circle and nurture your circle. And the third, like, remember that your belief is the light that's showing your way and just trust this feeling.

或许

And maybe

两分钟。

Two minutes.

是的。而且，我认为如果我们能挺过他们在山坡上平行停车的考验——这在旧金山相当具有挑战性——还有旧金山咖啡的价格，那我们肯定也能战胜冒名顶替综合症。这真的很鼓舞人心。没错。

Yes. And, yeah, I just think that if we can survive their parallel parking on hills, that is pretty challenging in San Francisco. The price of coffee in San Francisco, that we definitely can survive impostor syndrome. And really encouraging. Yes.

另外，我的意思是，如果你情绪低落，我很乐意成为你的后盾，因为很多人帮助过我。我总觉得应该回馈这份善意。非常感谢。

And, I mean, feel free to that I can be your support too if you ever feel down because a lot of people help me. I always feel that I need to give back. Thank you so much.

那个声音，不断重复。声音在不断重复。

That voice, repeats itself. The voice repeats itself.

当然。

For sure.

但你必须摆脱它。

But you have to get away from it.

把音量调低些。

Make their lower volume.

远离这些是否具有变革性，黛博拉？好的，我明白了。

Is it is it transformational to get away from it, Deborah? Okay. I'll catch.

谢谢安妮，也感谢NCWCA和联邦俱乐部主办这次‘女性赋能女性’系列的第二场活动。

Thank you, Anne, and thank you to NCWCA and the Commonwealth Club for hosting for hosting the second session of women empowering women.

让我说明一下，很抱歉刚才没提到。黛博拉是位摄影师，非常出色的摄影师。她以独特视角观察世界，尤其擅长建筑摄影。

Let me let me say. I'm sorry. I didn't mention. Deborah's a a photographer, a wonderful photographer. And so she sees the world in a particular way that that and she particularly deals with architectural photography.

所以很抱歉，我忘了介绍彼此的背景。

So I'm sorry. I forgot to know each other's structure.

我目前是摄影师。通过战略性的社交结识关键人物——比如在艺术画廊遇见薇拉——我的核心主题始终是转型。这种转型源于我拥抱变化并将其视为机遇。为让大家理解，我最初是教导下一步将入狱的青少年罪犯，曾被刀抵喉咙，那时我想：回馈社会的使命已完成，现在该追求什么？

I am currently a photographer. And through strategic networking and meeting the right people, and that's how I met Vera just in an art gallery, my focus has really been on transformation. And the transformation has has come because I've embraced change and view it as an opportunity. So to kinda level set this for you, I started out teaching juvenile delinquents whose next step was jail, had a knife to my throat, and decided, okay, I've given back. And now what do I wanna do?

于是我转行销售科技产品，尽管当时连电脑都不会开机。典型的冒充者综合征对吧？但我深知只要认真思考需求、制定计划，就一定能成功。

And so I ended up getting a job selling technology without ever having turned on a computer. Talk about impostoracy. Mhmm. Right? But I knew that if I put if I really thought about it and figured out what I needed, if I planned, I could become very successful.

因此我的主题是如何将今晚所有精彩建议转化为行动。我会参考笔记说明——目前我正处于自创的‘再激励’阶段（退出科技圈后追寻激情的新词）。历经互联网1.0和2.0时代，受够兄弟文化后，我明白必须改变。

And so my topic is really about taking all the wonderful advice that we've had tonight and turning it into action and taking next steps. And I am gonna refer to some notes. So in I'm currently in Reinspirement, which I coined as a way to follow my passion once I got out of technology. I was in technology, you know, Internet one dot o and two dot 0 and got so bro'd out. I knew I needed to make a change.

我确信毒性稍减，但科技行业的毒性水平仍然很高。身处其中的人都明白我在说什么。于是我开始思考，好吧，我想做什么？如何无缝衔接地过渡到下一步？为此我实际上花了两年时间思考这个问题。

I'm sure it's a little less toxic, but the level of toxicity is is still high in technology. And those that are there understand what I'm talking about. So I started to think, okay, what do I wanna do? How can I segue to my next step and do it in a seamless fashion that fit? And so I actually took two years to think about this.

大多数人可能不会花这么多时间，但我鼓励你尽可能多花时间思考如何将激情转化为职业。我将这次转变视为一个机会，放下那些不支持我、不符合我价值观、不在我理想环境中的事物。那么具体怎么做？你需要先了解自己的某些特质，对吧？

Most people probably don't take that amount of time, but I encourage you to take as much time as you can to think about how are you gonna turn your passion into your profession. And and I viewed this change as an opportunity to let go of those things that didn't support me, that didn't support my values, and that weren't in the kind of environment where I wanted to be. And so how do you do that? Well, you need to understand certain things about yourself. Right?

比如，什么能点燃你的热情？我和朋友聊过这个话题。他们会问'你下一步打算做什么？'，而回答往往是'我不知道，我不清楚自己喜欢做什么'。

Like, what lights you up? I have friends I've talked about. Well, what what's your next step? Well, I don't know. I don't know what I like to do.

如果你自己都不知道喜欢什么，别人更不可能告诉你。所以你必须花时间用心觉察——究竟是什么让你眼睛发亮？你的快乐源泉在哪里？有没有什么事情能让你专注到抬头时惊觉'天啊，四小时过去了，我该吃饭了'？

Well, if you don't know what you like to do, nobody's gonna tell you that. So you have to take time and be mindful about what is it that lights you up. Where do you get your joy? What is it that you can do where you look up? It's four hours later and, like, you're going, oh, I think I need to eat.

我们都有过这种心流体验的时刻。你在当前职业中培养的哪些技能现在可能有用？你的价值观是什么？对你重要的是什么？你想与怎样的人、环境、事物共处——无论是内在还是外在的？

And we've all had those zone in the zone moments. And what skills did you develop in whatever your career is that might be useful for you now? What are your values? What's important to you? What are the kinds of people, environment, things, both internal and external that you wanna surround yourself with.

理清这些后，我强烈建议你进行优先级排序，因为我们都容易被光鲜事物分心，偏离主航道。而时间是唯一不可再生的资源，作为资产极其珍贵。接下来要考虑什么与你的生活方式契合？

And once you have that sorted, then I highly recommend you rank order them because we all get pulled in by shiny objects. We all get pulled in by things that will take us off our our main path. And time is the one thing that's not recoverable. So time is very valuable as an asset. And then what fits or aligns with your lifestyle?

你喜欢旅行吗？认识我的人都知道，我精力充沛，不是害羞安静的壁花，喜欢频繁活动。我体型娇小，所以偏爱便携物品。摄影最初就是我为了缓解企业工作压力而接触的。

Do you like to travel? I'm those people that know me, I'm very active. I'm not the shy, quiet little wallflower, and I like to move around a lot. And I'm compact, so I like things that are compact because it's it's easy for me. So I came into photography as a stress relief from my corporate job.

我的工作是负责全球战略合作伙伴关系及面向财富100强企业的标志性销售，那时我通常是会议室里唯一的女性。我一直在观察商业中的模式与趋势，因此模式、趋势、序列始终吸引着我。当我注视一栋建筑时，我既能看到整体，也会聚焦于某些图案、序列、装饰细节，以及光线在建筑特定部位的投射效果。所以人们看到我的摄影作品时常会问：这是什么？视角为何如此特别？

And my job was doing global strategic partnerships and marquee sales to Fortune 100 companies where I was usually the only woman in the room. And I was understanding what are the patterns and trends in business. And so patterns, trends, sequences always were of interest to me. So when I look at a building, I don't see some I do see the whole building, but I will zone in on certain patterns, sequences, motifs, how the light hits a certain part of the building so that when people look at my photography, they're like, well, what is that? What's the perspective?

正如安妮所说，我对世界有着独特的视角。当你理清这些要素后，也要列出你拒绝的事物——因为你不想要的与你渴望的同样重要，包括你希望成为什么样的人。明确哪些人你不愿与之共事。正是这种对规划的偏执，迫使我去思考：两年后我想达到什么状态？我想获得怎样的感受？

And as Anne said, I have a very unique perspective on the world. And and once you figure out those things, also make a list of what you don't want because what you don't want is just as important as what you do want and how you do want to be. Know what you who you don't want on your playground. So my bias towards planning is what forced me to sit back and look at, okay, so where do I wanna be two years from now? And how do I wanna feel?

如何从现在开始行动？曾几何时，我身兼高压的全职工作（始终是公司顶尖绩效者）同时全职从事艺术创作。如今我已专职艺术多年，有时却感觉重回职场——比如今年我申请了14场展览，入选7场，另有6个意外机遇。这又回到了工作与生活的平衡问题。

And how can I start that now? So there was a point where I had a full time, very stressful job, was the top performer in the companies I was in and did art full time. And now I do. I've been doing art full time for a while, and sometimes I feel like I'm back at work because, as an example, this year, I applied to 14 shows, was in seven, and had six other opportunities that came up outside of that. So it goes back to the work life balance.

嗯。我从未想过会走到今天。冒名顶替综合征？没错吧？

Mhmm. And never did I think I would be at this place. Imposter syndrome. Check. Right?

所以请进行自我评估。认清你的优势。更重要的是（这也是我不得不强迫自己做的事），停下来审视你的成就。因为当你不断进取时，你总是向前看，却忘了回望来时的路。

So do a self assessment. Understand your strengths. Even more importantly, and this is something I have to force myself to do, sit back and take a look at your achievements. Because when you're always achieving, you're always moving forward. And you don't stop and look in the rearview mirror on where you've been.

若你停下来稍作回顾，就能缓解冒名顶替感。你会看清自己的成就，不是要四处炫耀，而是将其内化为底气。你能感知自己的成长。因此无论是开启新事业、建立新关系，还是像我这样跨州搬迁（虽不及薇拉的距离远）

And if you stop and take a moment to do that, it helps negate that impostor syndrome. You see what you've accomplished. Not that you're going out and putting it all up in lights, but you're now wearing it internally. You can feel what you accomplished. So the next chapter of your life, whether it's a new career, a new partnership, or I also moved across the country, not quite as far as Vera, but

但也够远了。

pretty far.

东海岸和西海岸之间存在着非常大的差异。

And there's a very big difference between the East Coast and the West Coast.

你能在两分钟内解释一下吗？

Can you explain that in two minutes?

可以。在东海岸，我十分钟就能买完东西。所有人都会给我让路，我能顺利结账离开。但在这里第一次尝试时，人们看我的眼神就像在问'你来自哪个星球？'。我认为西海岸的人更温和一些。

I can. In the East Coast, I'd go shopping in ten minutes. Everybody would get out of my way, and I could check out, and it would be fine. Here, the first time I tried to do that, I had people, like, look at me, like, what planet are you from? And West Coast people have a little more, I think, are a little softer.

所以我感觉自己融合了东西海岸的最佳特质。最后我想分享两个观点：第一，采取行动时要明智——确保行动具体、可衡量、可实现、相关且及时。最后请记住：行动加与行动一致的意图等于结果。

So I feel like I've got the best of the East and the best of the West in one blend. I wanna leave you with these two thoughts. One, when you take action, think about smart. Make it specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and timely. And lastly, if you walk away with one thought from my contribution air action plus intention that's aligned with action equals results.

如果想了解更多，会后可以找我交流，我就是活生生的例子，很乐意分享经验。

If you want to know more about that, talk to me afterwards because I'm living proof, and I would be glad to share that with

好的，本次小组讨论到此结束，非常感谢大家。

Okay. That concludes our panel portion. Thank you so much.

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