与克雷格·琼斯一起探索教练发展的新格局

欢迎像冠军一样参赛。

Welcome to compete like a champion.

你现在正在与拉里·劳尔医生会面，他是美国网球协会球员发展部门的心理表现总监，以及教练约翰尼·帕克斯。

You're here at doctor LarryLauer, director of mental performance with USTA player development and coach Johnny Parkes.

今天，我们邀请了嘉宾克雷格·琼斯，来谈谈教练培养格局的变化。

Today, we're bringing on a guest, Craig Jones, to talk about the changing landscape of coach development.

克雷格，感谢你的加入。

Craig, thanks for joining.

很高兴来到这里，各位。

Glad to be here, guys.

好的。

Alright.

所以，克雷格，你是新启动的2025年美国网球协会教练项目中负责交付与质量标准的高级总监，该项目已于八月正式上线。

So, Craig, you are the senior director of delivery and quality standards for the newly initiated USTA Coaching in 2025 and kind of went live in August.

我说得对吗？

Am I right there?

是的。

Yes.

算是一个软启动，但我们确实上线了，现在工作坊正在开展，这正是我的工作领域。

Sort of a soft launch, but we we did go live and then the workshops are kicking in right now, which is my world.

对。

Right.

这太棒了。

Oh, that's that's awesome.

你长期以来一直以不同身份在USTA内部工作。

So you've been embedded with USTA for for a while in different capacities.

你也曾外出工作，经营过自己的俱乐部，担任网球总监。

You've also, you know, been out there and you've owned your own club, director of tennis.

你能给我们和听众简单介绍一下你自己和你的背景吗？

Do you wanna give us and the the listeners a brief brief intro to you and your background?

好的。

Yeah.

实际上，在加入USTA之前，我在私营部门工作了26年，你可能难以置信。

Actually, was in the private sector twenty six years, believe it or not, before the USTA.

所以我和别人有点不一样。

So I was a bit different.

正如你提到的，我作为俱乐部老板，走的是同样的路径——从助理主管到教练，最终成为网球总监，但在这26年里，我还为USTA志愿工作了25年。

And, as you mentioned, club owner did the same pathway, you know, assistant head and pro up to director of tennis, but I also volunteered for the USTA for twenty five of those twenty six years.

这挺有意思的。

And it was interesting.

我想，这大概就是我最终全职加入USTA的原因，而这一切都源于那个老式的红球、橙球、绿球体系，不管我们当时叫它什么名字。

I think that's kinda how I found my way to working for the USTA full time, but a lot of it came out of the old red, orange, green, you know, eight names ago, whatever we called it.

然后，我就这样开始了。

And then that's kind of how I started.

我被招募进来，负责管理国家级以下的比赛，大约五年半后，我们推出了USTA U，如果你还记得的话，那是教育板块的一部分。

I got recruited and oversaw playing comp below the national level and 10 and their tennis five and a half or so years in, we started USTA U if you remember that, which was a bit of the educational arm.

而现在，正如你提到的，在2025年，我们已经全面投入了美国教练计划。

And then, now, and as you mentioned in '25, we're, we've gone into it full steam ahead, USA coaching.

所以能够把我的所有背景整合在一起，这真的非常棒。

So it's really cool that I get to put sort of all of my background together in this.

但归根结底，我所做的就是我所说的，负责一线工作。

But ultimately what I do is we're, as I say, I oversee the front line.

我负责工作坊、教练开发人员以及教练开发学院。

I oversee the workshops, the coach developers, coach developer academy.

因此，就质量而言，这 definitely 落在我的职责范围内。

So in terms of that quality, definitely sits in my area.

当我们谈论质量标准时，我们使用的是‘质量保证’这个术语。

And then we talk about quality standards and all, but we use the term quality assurance.

所以，确保工作坊达到尽可能高的质量，这是非常重要的一部分。

So that's a big piece, making sure the workshops are the highest quality possible.

这也是我工作中的一个重要部分。

That's a big piece of what I do as well.

太棒了。

Awesome.

那我们来深入聊聊USTA教练体系吧。

Well, let's dive into to USTA Coaching a little bit.

现在应该说，USTA正全面转向认证体系，并提升标准。

Now sort of the USTA, I should say, this is going full bed into into certification and and raising the standards.

但跟我们说说

But talk to us a

你能稍微讲讲，美国教练行业的现状主要是什么样的吗？

little bit about, like why, what what is sort of predominantly the status of coaching in The US?

也许可以给我们一些背景信息，以及我们未来将朝什么方向发展？

Maybe give us some background there and and what are we looking at moving forwards?

是的。

Yeah.

我想你们两位都知道这一点。

And I think both of you know this.

我们是世界上唯一一个不规范教练管理的发达国家。

We were the only developed nation in the world that didn't control the coaching.

我们曾经有两个认证机构，都是很棒的人。

And we had two certifying bodies, great people.

我多年来一直是这两个组织的成员。

I've been a member of both orgs for years and years.

但本质上，它们都是行业协会。

And essentially they're trade organizations.

对吧？

Right?

它们必须赚钱，而作为网球的国家政府机构，我们非常幸运，拥有美网公开赛。

And and they've gotta make money and and, you know, we're very fortunate as national government body of tennis, we have the US open.

所以我们有很多资金。

So we've got a lot of money.

对吧？

Right?

但长期以来，情况一直是这样；与此同时，我们在发达国家中，获得认证的标准却是最低的，这真的有点尴尬。

But this is just sort of how things were for years but at the same time we also have the lowest standards in the world to get certified in terms of developed nations which is really kind of embarrassing.

我认为很多情况都基于这样一个前提：你会在一位优秀的导师指导下工作，然后去参加所谓的考核。

I think a lot of it was predicated on that you were gonna work under someone good, have a mentor, and then you're gonna go get quote unquote tested.

但对我们来说，这远远不够，是不可接受的。

But this is something that for us just wasn't enough, wasn't acceptable.

我们尝试过认证和资质认定。

We tried accreditation and certification.

我以前的头衔就是负责这个，我们对这些认证机构进行过认证，但情况又不一样。

That was my old title to, and we accredited the cert orgs, but again, it's different.

它们是行业组织，彼此竞争，而当金钱介入时，水往往会流向最低处。

They're trade orgs, were competing against each other and sometimes water will sink to its lowest level when money gets involved.

对我们而言，这不仅仅是标准问题，也不是说它们的标准很低。

And for us, it's all about not just the standards and it's not like they had low standards.

有很多非常出色的教练。

There's a lot of incredible pros.

你知道，我们这次电话会议中的三个人，应该都属于那些组织的一员。

You know, you probably everyone on our call, the three of us are all, you know, a part of those orgs.

但对我们来说，我们需要的是一个更一致、更高标准的聘用体系，抱歉，我说错了。

But for us it was to have more of a consistent standard that's hired, that's higher, excuse me.

但另一点是，我们的服务对象涵盖了各种人群，虽然不太想用‘业余’这个词，但比如空巢父母、高中生、大学生等等，我们覆盖了整个范围，而不仅仅是那些想靠这项运动谋生的人。

But the other thing is that we're about, you hate to use the term recreational, but like parents, you know, that could be empty nesters or whatever high school, college, you know, we're running the whole gamut versus people that just wanna make a living in the sport.

因此，我们认为这需要一个更全面的体系。

So this is a big thing for us as we felt like it needed to be more holistic.

你们可能都知道，我们过去曾设有业余教练部门，还有USTA高级培训项目，但那两个只是两端。

And you all probably know we used to have recreational coach department and then we have the USTA high performance, but those were on the bookends.

所以我们现在实际上是在填补中间的空白。

So essentially what we're doing now is we're covering the middle as well.

因此，我们决定全力推进这项工作。

And so we have decided to go full steam ahead with us.

是的。

Yeah.

毫无疑问，整个格局正在迅速变化。

It's definitely the landscape is changing quickly.

对吧，克雷格？

Right, Craig?

我想也许听听我们是如何走到这一步的会很有趣，你知道，我们在美国网球教练方面做得好的地方是什么，以及你觉得我们还需要在哪些方面改进？

And I guess maybe would be interesting just to hear, you know, why we've gotten to this point and what do you think we've done well in coaching in American, tennis and what do you think we need to improve?

你知道，这是个很好的问题。

You know, it's a great question.

我越研究世界其他地方，就越发现每个人都以为别人有着不可思议的体系，但实际上这些体系都是混合而成的。

The more I study the rest of the world, everyone thinks everyone just has these unbelievable systems, but they're a bit of a mix.

我想你们都知道，西班牙的体系其实是代代相传的，他们以前并没有很高的标准。

And I think you all know, the Spanish system was really passed down from people to people and they didn't have the highest standards.

但他们已经发生了巨大的变化。

They have changed dramatically.

澳大利亚，我不知道是多少年前了，也许是十七八年前，他们当时也没有掌控这个体系。

Australia, I don't know how many years ago it was maybe seventeen, eighteen years ago, they didn't control it either.

所以并不是只有我们没这么做。

So it's not like no one else has done this.

但无论如何，对我们来说，展望未来，再次重申，关键在于标准。

But yeah, for us moving forward again, just to reiterate it, it is about standards for us.

就目前我们所处的阶段而言，我们面临人才短缺。

And in terms of currently where we are, we have a shortage.

我想你们两位都知道，还有网球教练，对吧？

I think both of you know, and tennis pros, right?

因此，并不是每个人都愿意去获得认证。

And so for us, not everyone wants to get certified.

所以我们有一个徽章体系，有些人称之为微认证，有些人可能只是想帮忙带一下红色球初级班之类的。

And so we have, you know, a badging system which some people call micro credentials, which someone may just want to help out with the red ball beginner class, whatever.

但我们所做的一切是完全整体性的。

But this is just completely holistic what we're doing.

如果我们放眼全球，我们所做的事情其实与其他任何国家都不一样。

What we're doing is not like any other country in the world really, if you look at it.

对我们美国而言，情况不同是因为家长做了大量教练工作，而你们都知道，在国外，大部分都是由俱乐部的专业教练来负责。

And for us, it is different in The US because parents do a lot of coaching and you all know outside of the country, a lot of it's just professional coaches, At clubs and things like that.

我们说的俱乐部，并不一定指的是私人俱乐部，对吧？

And we say club, club doesn't have to mean a private club, right?

但俱乐部和学院是不同的。

But clubs and academies.

因此，我们的整体环境是不一样的。

So it's different in terms of our landscape.

我跟你说实话。

I'll be honest with you.

对于我们来说，一个有点不正常的现象是，除了可能高尔夫之外，大多数青少年体育项目都是团队驱动的，由家长来指导。

One of the things that probably is a bit out of whack for us is most youth sports other than maybe golf, they are team driven and parents coach them.

这在美国是一种普遍的现状，而大多数美国人抱怨的是，他们需要更多的专业教练。

And that's sort of the landscape in America and most people complain in America, they need more professional coaches.

而在国外，网球主要依靠专业教练。

Whereas tennis outside the country is mostly professional coaches.

所以，正如前面提到的，我们正在全面覆盖这一领域；如果我想学习如何穿线，我可以参加相关的专业商店课程，而这些课程可能只涉及管理公共网球中心的前台工作。

So again, mentioned earlier, we're running the whole gamut with this and so if I want to come in and get something on how to string rackets, can get that running a pro shop programming and only programming where maybe I manage the front desk at a public tennis center.

我想再多了解一些关于编程之类的事情。

And I want to learn a little bit more on, on, on programming, things like that.

所以这将是一个一站式解决所有需求的平台。

So it's going to be a one stop shop for all of this.

显然，我的世界是工作坊，这些工作坊通常倾向于先提供帮助，然后逐步深入发展。

And obviously my world is workshops, which tend to lean more towards help out at first, work your way down the pathway.

但很多人进来时，只是想在资源中心获取一些零散的信息。

But a lot of people will come in, they're just gonna get little snippets on the resource center.

也许他们只参加几个模块，而对我们来说，完整的课程通常由六个模块组成，他们来去匆匆，最多不超过两小时，也从不打算获得认证。

Maybe they take a couple of modules and then they take all six modules is just sort of standard for us that make up a quote unquote course and they're in and out no more than two hours and never ever cared to get certified.

所以，这涵盖了整个范围，我真的想不出世界上还有哪个国家的网球国家管理机构会像我们这样做得如此全面。

So again this runs the entire gamut and really I can't think of another country in the world in terms of a tennis national governing body that's actually gonna do it as thorough as we're gonna we're gonna do it.

你知道，克雷格，你这项旨在培养更多网球教练的使命，实际上是顺应了他们的现状，因为这个国家的青少年体育确实高度依赖志愿者和家长教练。

You know, it sounds like Craig, what you're doing is with this mission to develop more coaches, more tennis coaches in this country, you're meeting them where they're at because this country really depends on volunteer coaches and the parent coach in all of youth sport.

你知道，我们根本缺乏足够的专业教练来覆盖当前的球员数量，以及未来想吸引进来的更多球员。

You know, we just don't have enough pros, right, to to cover the amount of players that we have right now and the ones that we wanna bring into tennis in the future.

所以听起来你正在努力匹配他们的需求，激发他们的兴趣，并希望当他们接触到资源和课程时，能逐步引导他们接受更多教育。

So it sounds a lot like you're trying to to match that, you know, where their needs are, get them interested, and hopefully you start to draw them into more and more education as they they get into the the resources and into the modules.

是的。

Yep.

当然。

Absolutely.

任何经营俱乐部的人都知道，约翰尼提到我曾经开过一家俱乐部，即使在我为USTA工作并担任网球总监期间，我也经营了整整二十五年。

And anyone who runs a club, you know, johnny mentioned I owned a club, but did it for twenty five years even while I was working for the USTA and was a director of tennis and all.

过去，我们总是执着于培养顶尖球员，因为他们能带来丰厚的回报。

And it used to be this obsession with getting really good players because they all had to feed really well.

但对我而言，我手下的大多数人都是兼职的，我每天只需要从下午3:30到5:30找一些帮手，再加上晚上的成人初学者课程。

And for me, I actually the majority of the people that work for me were part timers and I just needed to get a block from 03:30 to 05:30 every day of helpers and then our adult beginner class at night.

这对我们来说是个重要部分，但当时根本没有任何针对他们的资源。

I mean, was a big piece for us and there was nothing for them.

我不得不自己设计一套培训方案，因为我不会让他们花整整一个周末去获得所谓的认证。

I had to come up with, you know, own version of training because I wasn't gonna go have them spend an entire weekend to get quote unquote certified.

对吧？

Right?

这就是休闲教练项目是如何开始的。

And that's how the recreational coaches program started.

但确实，我们正在把这个东西大力推广。

But yeah, we're kind of putting this thing on steroids.

所以，希望那些在俱乐部全职执教的普通教练能意识到：哇，我现在可以把这些人送到网上，让他们按自己的节奏学习。

So hopefully, you know, the average coach that's that's doing it full time at the club will realize, wow, I can just send these people online now and do it at their own pace.

或者他们也可以参加像我们的教练入门工作坊那样的三个半小时的培训。

Or maybe they go and they do a three and a half hour workshop like our intro to coach workshop.

所以，再次强调，这就是市场所在，市场的发展方向，我们会一直延伸到专业领域，当然，高水平教练培训项目早已存在，直至大师级。

So again, yeah, this is where the market is, where the market's heading and we'll go all the way to specialty and obviously the high performance coaching program has been around forever all the way to master.

所以，正如我之前提到的，我们覆盖了这一领域的整个谱系。

So again, as I mentioned earlier, we run the whole spectrum of this thing.

克雷格，所以这真的——我的意思是，如果我们从新冠疫情以来的角度来看，我认为疫情在一定程度上加速了这种新的学习方式。

Craig, so this this really I mean, if we think since COVID, I think COVID in part has helped accelerating this new way of learning.

而且正如你所说，我们国家的教练数量不足。

And like you say, we have a shortage of coaches in the country.

部分原因是，COVID期间，政府将网球列为最安全的运动之一，强调了保持社交距离等优势，促使更多球员走上球场。

In part, COVID helped players get on the tennis court because it was branded from a government level that, you know, tennis was one of the safest sports to get out there, distancing, and all that.

当然，当疫情缓解、各项活动重新开放时，一些计划和项目也得以重新启动。

You know, obviously, there was initiatives, programs that were able to come back into fruition when things opened up again.

所以你觉得，正是这些因素结合在一起，我们所有人都差不多停滞了六个月或更长时间，对吧？这取决于你所在地区的具体情况。

So you think in part there's that in combination, we all basically hibernated for six months or longer, right, depending on where you're at in the country.

因此，人们转向线上，因为除此之外别无选择，只能找些事情做。

So people went online because there was no other option to find things to do.

自那以后，这种方式似乎逐渐成为获取信息的新常态，人们参加线下会议和工作坊的需求似乎有所下降。

And it seems like since then, that's become a little bit of the new new way of going about how we wanna access information, the needs to go to these in person conferences, workshops seems to be a little, you know, on the decline.

我可能说错了，但感觉大家对能够便捷获取这些学习资源更加兴奋了。

I could be wrong here, but it seems like there's more excitement around being able to access that learning.

你是否想更深入地探讨一下这种新方式？能详细说说美国网球协会在这一方面做了哪些工作吗？

Do you wanna dive a little bit deeper into this sort of this this new approach and go a little bit deeper into what USTA Coaching is doing about that?

是的。

Yes.

约翰尼，你这个铺垫真好。

Good tee up on that johnny.

新冠疫情确实改变了现状。

COVID did change things.

令人欣慰的是，在新冠疫情之前，我们就已经在推行翻转课堂了，当时我们正在开发在线课程模块等。

The cool thing is we had already been in the flipped classroom before COVID when we were coming up with our online modules and all.

所以我们觉得自己在这方面其实走在了前面。

So we felt like we were kind of out in front of that.

但正如你提到和暗示的，他们实际会消费多少内容。

But as you mentioned alluded to is, you know, amount that they're gonna consume.

所以，我们讨论的对象从父母、业余爱好者，到只是喜欢打网球想学点技巧的人，一直到打算以此为职业的人，范围很广。

So again, we're talking about parents and dabblers and people that just like to play tennis might want to get some tips for themselves all the way to someone who's going to make a career.

因此，当我提到翻转课堂时，指的是我们在疫情期间认证和协助一级教练培训时，希望人们参加工作坊，充分提升面对面的体验。

And so for us, when I mentioned the flip classroom, that was when we were accrediting and helping with the level one during COVID and all that we wanted people to come to a workshop and maximize the workshop that in person experience.

因此，知识和理解需要提前在线完成。

So knowledge and comprehension needed to occur online beforehand.

对吧？

Right?

在工作坊中，他们则动手实践，进行微指导等。

Then at the workshop, they got their hands dirty and got to micro coach and all.

这更偏向于认证那一端。

That's more towards the certified side.

但在另一端，我看到很多人，我们希望他们只是走进糖果店，看一段一分钟的视频。

On the other end of it though, I see a lot of people, what we're hoping is they're just gonna come into the candy store and get turned on to a one minute video.

那可能只是一个技巧之类的，让他们以球员的身份观看，进而可能对教练产生兴趣，或者一位家长说：天啊，我刚看了可可在澳网的比赛。

That's a tip or whatever that could just be them looking at it as a player and then maybe turn them onto coaching or a parent who goes, god, I just saw Coco golf in the Australian open.

我想让我的孩子接触网球之类的。

And I want my kids to get into tennis or whatever.

我对网球一窍不通。

I have no clue what I'm doing with tennis.

我们也有针对这一点的模块。

We have modules for that as well.

同样，这些内容都很短小，我们之前也提到过，广播、你的播客都发生了巨大变化，对吧？

Again, they're bite size and we were talking about it before, the broadcast started, your pod, your podcast, it's changed dramatically as well, right?

在过去五六年甚至七年里，人们对内容的需求已经大不相同了。

Over the last five, six, seven years in terms of what people want.

现在，无论是球员、教练还是其他身份，人们更喜欢像抖音那样的短视频精华内容。

And now it really is sort of like tick tock highlights of things, whether you're a player, a coach or whatever.

因此，我们会提供所有内容，并确保我们称之为以学习者为中心。

So for us, we're going to offer everything and make sure we refer to this as being learner centered.

学习者都是不同的，对吧？

Learners are all different, right?

他们来自各行各业，各个年龄段。

They come from all walks of life, all ages.

但我们很清楚一点：如果你想吸引年轻且多元化的教练，就不能再沿用我们当年上大学或当网球教练时的那一套了，你必须激发他们的兴趣，而且内容必须是简短的片段。

But one thing we know for sure, if you're going go after young and diverse coaches, it cannot be what we all went through, you know, in terms of our college experience, our tennis pro experience, you better turn them on, and really it's gotta be short snippets.

另一件非常重要的事是这种榜样作用，他们必须能看到它。

The other thing that's that's huge is this aspirational thing as well is that they've got to see it.

所以我们正在努力做到这一点，让这些人看起来就像我一样，对吧？

And so that's something where we're really working on that to say, hey, these people look like me, right?

特别是在女性教练方面，我们仍然面临巨大的挑战。

Especially on the side of female coaches where we're still, everybody is struggling so much.

我们为此投入了资金和全力支持。

And we put our money and might behind that.

我认为，当人们真正了解我们目前所做的一切时，他们会大吃一惊——就像我之前提到的，这是全方位的。

And I think people are going to be blown away when they really look at what all we're currently doing is that we're, like I mentioned earlier, this is holistic.

我们面向所有人，但没错，其中最重要的一点是，我们必须提供优质的资源，这些资源要覆盖从只想试试看的人，到希望以此为生的人。

We're going after everybody, but yeah, one of the biggest pieces, we gotta have great resources and they need to be for people that just wanna try it out all the way to people who wanna make a living.

那么，谈谈那些希望以此为生的人吧。

So so talk about then the the people that wanna make it for a living.

首先，我觉得这非常令人兴奋，每个人都能接触到这些信息。

First of all, I mean, that sounds very exciting that everyone and anyone can access information.

我认为这也是一种变化，你知道，让我们回到几十年前吧。

I think that's a change as well in which, you know, a little bit you know, let's go back maybe a couple decades here.

那时候，这仅仅是给教练的。

It was like, well, this is for coaches.

家长甚至都没有被提及。

Parents weren't even acknowledged.

现在，家长被置于首要位置，被视为能够帮助孩子接触网球的人，让我们为他们提供信息，至少能让他们在某些方面入门。

Now parents are at the forefront of being acknowledged as the people that can help their kids get into tennis, and let's help give them you know, let's give them information that can at least get them started in in certain areas.

但另一方面，对于那些想以此为生的专业人士来说，这种认证体验是什么样的呢？

But on the other side, for professionals wanting to get in for a living, what does that certification experience look like?

我记得我当初参加认证时，要做一个关于握拍和挥拍的在线小测验，然后还得参加一次线下的实战测试，就这样结束了。

I go back to what when I, you know, went through the certification process, you did a little online test about the grips and the swings, and and then you had to go and do an in person play test, and that was then it.

你要么通过认证，要么没通过，然后就完事了。

You either got certified, you know, you got certified, and then you moved on your way.

至于继续教育，就是你参加世界大会或者某个研讨会，获取一些继续教育学分，然后就结束了。

And, you know, the continuing education piece was you showed up at the world conference for or whatever or or a workshop, just got continuing ed credits and then that was it.

然后你只需缴纳费用。

And then you just pay your dues.

对于教练，尤其是现在刚入行的年轻教练，这一领域发生了什么变化？

What's changed about that landscape for coaches, especially young coaches getting into it now?

你认为这种情况会如何发展？

And how do you see that evolving?

是的。

Yeah.

这是个很好的问题。

It's a great question.

同样，我们很多人成为教练都是出于偶然。

Again, know, lot of us became coaches by default.

我原本打算当律师，你知道的，之后还去当了工程师，但最后讨厌这一切。

I was gonna be a lawyer, you know, and I actually went to be an engineer after that and then hated all of it.

于是最终成了一个打网球的人。

So ended up becoming a a tennis person.

但你知道，在美国，人们通常会因为知道自己想做这件事而选择去获得认证。

But you know, the way it's been in in America is that I'm gonna get certified because I know I wanna do this.

我会花250美元购买会员资格，再加上支付认证课程的费用，所有这些都得花钱。

I'm gonna drop two fifty on a membership plus pay for the actual certification course and all those things.

但很多人其实根本不确定自己是否真的想做这件事。

And people have no idea if they really wanna do that or not.

因此，我们引入了徽章系统，未来还可能加入认证机制，让人们可以循序渐进地参与。

So this system we put in play with badges and then potentially certifications allow people to go at it slowly.

另一点是我们认真审视了整个市场。

The other thing is we've really looked at the marketplace.

我们并不假设每个人都只想学习技术、战术、握拍这些内容。

We're not assuming that everyone just wants to do this and learn technical tactical grips and all that stuff.

我们首先关注的是如何教练那些只想提供支持的人——他们可能网球打得并不好，但人际交往能力很强。

The first thing we do is how to coach skills for the people that just wanna provide support who may not be a good tennis player, but maybe they have great interpersonal skills.

因此，我们的工作坊重点在于帮助人们启动活动。

And so our workshops focus on getting the activity started.

如果你无法组织活动，就无法执教，你必须先学会管理球员，确保每个人都能获得平等的上场机会，之后才能开始执教。

If you can't organize it, you can't coach, then you have to be able to manage players and get guarantee equal play for everybody before you can coach.

然后，技术性和战术性的内容我们会逐步加强。

And then more of the technical tactical we steadily build.

所以，教学重点从‘如何执教’逐渐转向‘教什么’。

So it moves from the how to coach skills to more of the what to coach skills.

有趣的是，你可以在技术方面获得一个徽章，就像我说的，对吧？

The cool thing is is you can get a badge on the technical side and tack you know I'm saying?

这些短小的、大约两小时的模块，可以和半天的工作坊结合起来，而不是像你之前提到的，约翰尼，非要花整个周末，把所有内容硬塞给你。

These smaller, you know, two hour commitments, and pair it up with a half day workshop instead of having to go for the entire weekend that you alluded to earlier, johnny, and have everything forced down your throat.

但它允许你按需组合，量身定制适合自己的学习路径。

But it allows you to piece this together to tailor it to your needs.

如果你打算把这当作职业，那么职业发展会逐步推进，技术性和战术性内容会大幅增加，当你追求专业级别时，仅 workshops 就需要六天才能完成。

And then what the career is gonna look like if you want to do a career, then yes, it's steadily builds and it's a lot more tech tack and you know the when you're you're going for that first professional level and that's gonna take you six days of workshops alone just to do it.

但另一点很酷的是，你可以自由选择自己感兴趣的选修课，而我们要求的在线课程数量比五六年前少多了——那时我们要求五到六门，现在只需完成核心基础课程，然后逐步进阶。

But the other cool thing is you can tailor it and personalize the electives that you want and our required online courses are not near as much as they were like we were pushing five, six years ago where we have these these the like the core foundation and you steadily build.

但关键是，一旦你成为专业人士，就可以选择专业方向，这正是我们今年在推进的工作。

But the key is once you're a professional, then you can pick from specialties which is what we're working on this year.

其中一部分将在今年底和明年初推出，这样如果你真的想成为成人初学者领域的专家，专注于让他们享受并热爱这项运动，围绕你俱乐部的罗宾们组织活动，你就可以选择成为这个领域的专家。

And some of that will launch, by the end of this year and early next year so that you can truly, if I wanna be a specialist in adult beginners, you know, and just getting them playing the game and loving it and organizing around robins in my club, I can be a specialist in that area if I, if I choose.

对吧？

Right?

所以真正酷的是，这是一种面向所有年龄、阶段和水平的学习者为中心的方法。

So that's the cool thing about it truly is a learner centered approach for all ages, stages levels.

这真的令人兴奋。

And so it's really exciting.

一想到这个，我就激动得鸡皮疙瘩都起来了，因为还没有人如此全面地做过这件事。

I get goosebumps thinking about it because no one's really done it this thoroughly.

我们正诚实地一步步接近这个目标。

And we're just honestly, getting there.

目前还不是全部都已完善并准备好。

It's not all there and ready right now.

这不可能花我们太多时间，但我们的愿景是世界上任何其他网球协会都无法比拟的。

There's no way this is gonna take us time, but our vision is unlike any other NGB of tennis in the world.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢听你这么说，克雷格，因为过去我们一直假设每个人都会沿着一条线性的路径成长为最优秀的专业教练。

I love hearing this, Craig, because I think in the past, we assumed that everybody fell into this one sort of linear path towards becoming the best professional coach possible.

对吧？

Right?

所有人都沿着这条路径前进。

And that's where everybody was tracking.

那是一个相同的金字塔结构，你知道，随着你往上走，你会获得越来越多的资源。

It was the same pyramid and, you know so that's how you got your resources, right, as you moved up and you got more and more resources.

但现在我们所讨论的以学习者为中心的方式，是你能够像做自己的项目一样，根据你在网球领域的兴趣来发展自己作为教练。

But now what we're talking about learner centered is you can go in, develop almost like in your own project yourself, developing yourself as a coach and to your interest in within tennis.

所以我觉得这太棒了，我相信这一定会激励人们。

So I think that's awesome, and that will I think that will definitely motivate people.

我认为有一件事，人们可能很少想到或不太了解，我想让你在这方面多花点时间，克雷格，那就是你和我多年来在这个领域共同致力于的——教练开发者。

I think something that maybe people don't think about very much or don't know much about, and I want you to spend some time on this, Craig, is something that you and I have have worked on for years in this area, but the coach developer.

教练开发者是谁？

Who the coach developer is?

他们在整个这一变革中扮演着什么角色？

What is their role in, you know, this whole movement?

对吧？

Right?

这种理念的转变意味着什么？对于那些在一线指导球员的教练来说，这又意味着什么？

This change in the approach and, you know, what does that mean for the coach on the ground, you know, who's coaching players?

但让我们先聊聊教练开发者，他们是谁，以及为什么他们如此重要。

But let's talk about the coach developer for a little bit and who they are and and why they're important.

当然。

Sure.

而且我们都是朋友。

And and we're all friends.

我们已经一起度过了很多时间。

We've spent a lot of time together.

对我来说，这是我一生中做过的最困难的工作。

For me, this is the hardest work I've ever done in my life.

我知道这会是一个挑战，因为从八十年代担任网球总监起，我就一直在教练教练，但这次非常不同，完全不同。

And I and I knew it was gonna be a challenge because I've been coaching coaches since I was a director of tennis in the eighties, but this is a very different, very different.

后来我开始在外围真正开展这项工作，比如红球、橙球、绿球和3660项目，后来演变成了10岁及以下网球项目。

And then I started really doing it externally with the red, orange, green, and project thirty six sixty that then became 10 and under tennis.

这同样依赖于时间和资源。

It's predicated on time and resources as well.

而与其他认证机构相比，历史上通常是交钱、参加考试，甚至过去还被称为‘考官’之类的，但那并不是围绕一段成长旅程来支持人。

And so with the other cert orgs and just historically, was you paid your money, you went and it was like a test and they were even called testers with and, you know, other other names in the past, but it wasn't about supporting people along a journey.

人们总说导师制之类的，而你知道，拉里比任何人都更了解背后的研究所。

People say mentorship and all, and you know Larry better than anyone the research behind it.

你真的需要至少十八个月，还有这些方方面面。

You need really a minimum eighteen months and all these things.

当你只有短短两天时间来获得所谓的认证时，要做到这一点非常困难。

And it's very difficult to do that when you have just this confined, you know, two days to get quote unquote certified.

我们彻底颠覆了这种模式。

And we've thrown this thing upside down.

所以我们总是说，优秀的运动员不一定会成为优秀的教练，而教练也不一定就是。

So it is tough because we always say a good athlete does not make a good coach and a coach not necessarily.

同样，优秀的教练也不一定就能成为优秀的教练培养者。

And it doesn't necessarily mean that good coach makes a good coach developer.

对吧？

Right?

所以有趣的是，这其中有很多相似之处，但要找到优秀的人才，他们通常都很忙，如果他们已经成功了，要让他们抽出时间给你就更难了。

And, and so the cool thing is there's a lot of similarities, but to find good people, they're generally, if they're successful, they're busy and getting them to give you time is tougher.

所以这真的非常非常困难。

So it's, it's really, really tough.

我知道这对我来说是个挑战。

And I knew that this was a challenge for me.

所以，我获得了教练教育的硕士学位，正如你们都知道的，我在2020年12月疫情期间完成了它。

So I got a master's degree in coach education as both of you know, I finished it during COVID December 2020.

这是我做过最棒的事。

The best thing I ever did.

其中一部分是研究教练教育体系和教练发展。

Part of it was studying coach education systems and in coach development.

同时，我对技能习得也抱有浓厚兴趣。

And then I had a strong interest in skill acquisition as well.

而现在，我非常幸运，因为我们成功聘请了一些最优秀的人才。

And I'm in the situation now just very, very fortunate that we've been able to hire some of the best.

拉里，你曾担任美国网球协会、美国教练卓越中心的董事会成员，这类似于ITF之于USDA。

And Larry, you've been on the board of the USTA, United States Center for Coaching Excellence and sort of like USDA is to the ITF.

有一个国际中心理事会。

There's an international center council.

它的名称略有不同，叫ICCE。

I, it has a slightly different name, the ICCE.

从2018年起，我们就一直与美国教练卓越中心合作，这种变化正在全球范围内发生。

And so we've been working with them now since 2018, the USCCE, and this is changing everywhere.

我的意思是，'教练发展者'这个术语直到2012年、2013年左右才开始被广泛讨论。

I mean, the term coach developer really wasn't even being socialized till like 2012, 2013.

每个人都在改变，而且变化速度非常快。

Everyone's changing and they're changing rapidly.

因此，对我们来说，最重要的就是找到合适的人选，然后不断培训、培训、再培训。

And so for us, our big thing is finding the right people and then making sure we train, train, train.

我们非常幸运，拥有足够的资源来做到这一点，并聘请到优秀的人才。

Again, we are very fortunate that we have the resources to do that and to hire great people.

我刚去过希腊雅典的国际教练中心。

So, you know, was just in Athens, Greece at the International Center for Coaching.

那里有一个ICCE。

Have something the ICCE.

我不确定我有没有记对这个缩写。

I don't know if I got the acronym right.

它们略有不同，但在希腊雅典，我们被刊登在了几篇文章中。

They're they're slightly different, but in Athens, Greece, and we were featured in in a couple of things.

看到这一点真的很棒，因为我们起步较晚，你知道，因为我们不属于任何认证机构。

And it was really cool to see because we were late to the game, you know, because we were not in a certifying body.

但其他很多人早就开始做了，现在整个职业已经完全改变了。

And so, but there's all these others have been doing it for years that were early to the game, but now it's changed completely to the profession.

对吧？

Right?

所以，最关键的是，作为教练要以运动员为中心，作为教练开发者要以学习者为中心——谁先来？

And so the biggest thing about this, it's like being athletes centered as a coach, learner centered as a coach developer Who goes first?

对吧？

Right?

教练只是讲授、指令式的，你知道的，像个仲裁者。

The coach telling didactic prescriptive, you know, the arbiter.

我是那个掌控一切的人，因为我就是上帝，我负责你的认证。

I'm the one who referees everything because I'm God and I'm in charge of your certification.

我现在在这里打勾，而不是在帮助你走你的旅程。

I'm gonna check things off right here instead of I'm helping you on your journey.

所以一切都颠倒了。

And so it's flipped everything.

因此，对我们来说，我们正试图改变你们所熟知的那些教练。

So for us, we're trying to change coaches who you all know.

我的意思是，我以前是个爱吼叫的人，带过不少好球员，但我现在绝不会用以前的方式去执教了。

I mean, I was a yeller and screamer and I had a lot of good players, but I I wouldn't coach now anything like I used to coach.

我偶尔还会碰一碰，但教练开发者也是一样。

And I still dabble in it a little bit, but it's the same thing with coach developers.

这段旅程对我们来说非常精彩，但我们也已经开发出一套系统，即将发布。

So this has been incredible for us, this journey that we're on, but we've also developed a system now that we're about to publish.

它和两年前不同了，那时我们有见习教练开发者、认证教练开发者，后来我们升级为高级教练开发者和大师级CD。

It's different than it was two years ago where we have apprentice seat coach developers, licensed coach developers, then we moved to senior coach developers and master CDs.

所以我们的体系和认证非常相似。

So we have very similar to certification.

我们正在建立一套系统。

We have a system we're putting in place.

最难的部分仍然是招聘，因为这需要时间。

The hardest thing about it again is recruiting because it takes time.

另一个令人望而生畏的问题是，如果你独自面对一个有20人的工作坊，你就得像有经验的教练那样做同样的事。

The other thing that's just daunting is if you have 20 people in a workshop by yourself, you gotta deal do the same thing experienced coaches do.

你得先组织好他们。

You gotta organize them first.

在考虑提供反馈之前，你必须多次管理所有的微教练环节。

You have to manage the all micro coach the same amount of times before you can even think about feedback.

对我们而言，另一个巨大的变化是生成式反馈这个理念。

And then the other huge change for us is just this idea of generative feedback.

关键在于让他们先开口，让他们自我反思，并大声说出他们在微教练中的表现。

And the power is letting them go first, and they reflect, and they, you know, talk out loud about how they did in their micro coaching.

然后教练开发者最后才表达自己的感受，因为我们希望让同伴们也先进行评价。

And then the coach developer is the last person that says how they felt about it because they wanna to get the peers to review it as well.

所以，你大概能从我的语气中感受到我对这个有多么兴奋。

So again, you can probably sense in my voice how excited I am about this.

这对我们来说是一种完全不同的方法，我真的很期待未来，因为这刚刚起步。

This is just a completely different approach for us and really excited about the future because it's just, it's just launching.

不。

No.

这确实令人兴奋，克雷格。

It is exciting, Craig.

我们正在谈论教练开发者，也就是那些指导或辅导教练的人。

And, you know, so we're talking about the coach developers, the one who's coaching or mentoring the coaches.

这让我想到，你谈到的是陪伴他们踏上旅程，帮助他们抵达目的地。

It makes me think about, you know, you're talking about going on their journey and helping them reach their destination.

这在某种程度上听起来像是变革型领导力——我致力于激励你实现目标，而不是交易型领导，即我付钱给你，或者要求你完成一项工作，为公司或我完成任务。

Sounds like transformational leadership in some ways where I'm working to inspire you to reach your goals versus transactional where I'm paying you or I'm asking you to do a job and complete that job for the company or for me.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为这种方法效果不错，因为有很多理论和科学依据支持人们选择这条路径。

So the the approach, I think, is is holding up well because there's a lot of theory and science that would support people wanting to to go this route.

对吧？

Right?

它基于我的需求和我的目标。

It's based on my needs, my goals.

我可以按照自己的节奏进行，并且会得到支持。

I can do it on my pace, and I'm gonna be supported in doing it.

我认为所有这些因素都有助于提升动力，以及对自身教练发展的长期投入，而不是感觉这件事是强加给你的，或者你只是在参加一场考试。

And I think all those things lend towards better motivation and long term commitment to your your own development as a coach versus feeling like it's being done to you or you're just taking a test.

你说话的时候，我还在想，克雷格，你提到像职业体育领域那样，记得斯科蒂·鲍曼在退役后又被请回NHL担任高级顾问。

The other thing I was thinking about as you're talking, Craig, you started hearing, you know, like in pro sports, like, remember Scottie Bowman being in the NHL being brought back after he was done coaching as a senior adviser.

对吧？

Right?

但他完全可以成为教练的教练，因为他本身就是历史上最伟大的教练之一。

But that's the kind of he he could be a coach developer because he one of the greatest coaches of all time.

他可以成为一名教练发展者。

He could be a coach developer.

他可以介入，因为他有公信力。

He could go in because he has the credibility.

然而，你在这里所做的，以及USCCE和ICE一直在做的，是为这件事设定了一些参数和界限。

However, what you're doing here and what USCCE, ICE has been doing, ICE, is creating some parameters, some boundaries around that.

这个角色到底是什么？

What actually is the role?

谁才是适合担任这种角色的人？

And who's the right person to do this type of role?

对吧？

Right?

因为，正如你所说，即使你是个优秀的教练，也不意味着你就能成为一名优秀的教练发展者。

Because, like you said, just because you're a good coach doesn't mean you're gonna be a good coach developer.

所以当你思考这一点时，我知道你提到过先让教练们进行反思。

So when you think about that, I know you talked about letting the coaches reflect first.

你谈到了招聘中的合适人选，克雷格。

You talked about the right people in recruiting, Craig.

那到底谁才是合适的人选呢？

Like who are the who are the right people?

在你看来，谁最适合担任教练发展者这个角色？

Who are the best fits for the coach developer in your mind?

你在寻找什么样的人？

What are you looking for?

是的。

Yeah.

这也是个很好的问题，尤其是在启动新体系的时候，最好的方式是找那些已经经历过这个体系、并且你长期观察过的人。

It's a great question too, especially when you're launching a new system because the best way is to get people that have gone through the system where you've been watching them over time.

可惜我们一直处在旧体系中，但我们都明白，你待得越久，就越被束缚住，而成长型思维才是最重要的，对吧？

And unfortunately we've been in this old system, but we all know, you know, the longer you're in it, the more you're tied in and growth mindset is a number one, right?

我们必须找到这样的人，对我们来说，成长型思维意味着他们并不依赖CIRT组织。

We've got to have people and look, growth mindset for us means they weren't reliant on the CIRT orgs.

我的意思是，确实有一些，但你知道，你会尽可能在你感兴趣的特定领域里找到所有相关信息。

I mean, they were some, but you know, you're going to find everything you possibly can within that particular area of interest that you have.

对吧？

Right?

你对教练发展的兴趣，你知道，这很困难，因为像你了解的那样，拉里比任何人都更清楚，这方面的研究并不多，而且正在迅速变化。

And your interest in coach development, you know, it was tough because there wasn't me, as you know, Larry better than anyone that the research on this wasn't that big and it's changing rapidly, right as we go.

但对我们来说，我们希望找到终身学习者，因为这正是我们努力的方向。

But for us, you know, we we want lifetime learners because that's what we're trying to do on our end.

我很喜欢你提到的交易型和变革型领导力。

And and I love what you said about transactional and transformational.

我在攻读硕士学位时花了很多时间研究领导力，这可能是最贴切的类比了。

Spent a lot of time studying leadership in my masters, and it it it's probably the best comparison that there is.

利兹贝克特大学的利亚姆·麦卡锡有一句名言，我认为他是全球评估领域的权威。

One of the, quotes from Liam McCarthy is at Leeds Beckett University and I think he's the leading, authority of assessment in the world.

我不太喜欢用‘权威’这个词，因为这本身就带有等级色彩，但他总是强调，我们追求的是更高的标准，而不是标准化。

I hate to say authority because that's hierarchical by nature, but he's incredibly always talks about we want higher standards versus standardization.

所以，正如你所说，过去的问题在于一刀切。

And so this this is the difficult thing is in the past, as you said, it was a one size fits all.

这就是你必须做的。

This is what you have to do.

因此，我们一直使用通过/失败这样的说法，但不，我们必须改变这种表达方式。

And so for us, like we keep using the term pass fail and all this like, no, no, we've got to change this language.

更准确地说，你是否准备好在这个路径上进入下一个阶段？

It's more of, are you ready to move to the next level in this pathway?

因为这条路径是别人为你设计的，可能并不适合你，但你知道吗？

Because this pathway is a pathway someone else is laid out for you and that may not be your pathway, but guess what?

我们有这些徽章和资源，也许你并不需要参加六天的线下培训，而是可以通过在线方式完成，我会从头开始引导你，就像我们最初推出的三小时半的教练入门工作坊那样。

We have these badges and these resources where maybe you're better off not going to six days and in person and you can just do this thing online and I'm gonna help guide you from the beginning as we started our intro to coaching three and a half hour workshop.

对吧？

Right?

所以，我们再次寻找有潜力的教练发展者。

So again, we want we're looking for potential coach developers.

不仅如此，还有那种培养型的、鼓舞人心的导师支持。

Not only that that growth mindset, but that nurturing, you know, inspirational mentor types that you get.

而且，这么多人都非常忙碌，没时间担任教练开发者。

And again, so many of those are super busy and can't give you the time to be a coach developer.

对吧？

Right?

所以这需要时间。

So this takes time.

你不能随便从大学里挑出一些只教了几年的23岁年轻人，就指望他们能管理二十个人的团队。

And, again, you can't just pluck talented 23 year olds out of college who've taught for a couple years and think that they're gonna manage a group of 20 people.

你得有一定的背景经验，同时还会陷入各种技术细节的讨论中。

And you've got to have a little background and you also get down these rabbit holes of technical tactical talks.

你得真正懂行。

You gotta know your stuff.

这不仅仅是问一堆问题、引导讨论，然后让所有同行自己做决定那么简单。

It's not just about asking a bunch of questions and facilitating and letting all the peers decide it.