The Coach - Officer, Doctor, Bartender with Mike Barrell

欢迎来到《像冠军一样竞争》。

Welcome to Compete Like a Champion.

你今天和拉里·劳尔博士、美国网球心理表现总监以及教练约翰尼·帕克斯一起在这里。

You're here with doctor LarryLauer, director of mental performance with USA Tennis and coach johnnyparkes.

今天，我们非常荣幸地邀请到了迈克·巴雷尔作为嘉宾。

Today, we've got an incredible guest on in Mike Barrell.

他是纽约体育时间俱乐部的网球执行总监，也是Evolve Nine的创始人，专注于网球教练的培训与中心项目管理。

He is the executive director of tennis at Sport Time Clubs New York and owner of Evolve nine, specializing in coach education and program management for tennis coaches and centers.

这是简要版本。

That's the short version.

迈克，欢迎你。

Mike, welcome.

感谢你加入我们。

Thank you for joining us.

我们非常感谢你抽出时间，今天和我们探讨一些关于教练培训与发展的话题。

We really appreciate you taking the time to to talk through some some coach education and development stuff with us today.

没问题。

Not a problem.

很高兴能来这里。

Really happy to be here.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，迈克，我知道你多年来一直从事教练、教学以及教练教育与发展的相关工作，我们这些年也一直有交流。你在这方面的背景非常出色。能不能简单分享一下你的经历，以及你目前的主要工作重点是什么？

So Mike, I mean, you've got a very I've you know, I I've known you for years and and we've connected on various things over the years and you've got a very sort of distinguished background in not only coaching, teaching, but coach education and development and maybe, you know, take us through a little bit of your background and bring us up to where you are now and what you what maybe some of your main focuses are currently.

谢谢。

Thanks.

对。

Yeah.

我最初是当教练的。

I was, I started as a coach.

在我看来，我始终是个教练，对吧？

I mean I'm still a coach as far as I'm concerned, I'm always a coach right?

所以我特别喜欢这种协同效应，我们谈论教练、管理，还有所有这些事情，但归根结底，对我来说，这一切都是教练工作。

So I love the synergy between you know, we talk about coaching, we talk about management, we talk about all of those things but ultimately for me it's all coaching.

我一开始是在一家俱乐部当教练，后来在业务上做得不错，雇了几个其他教练，然后某一天，我开始花更多时间在我自己拥有的一个小俱乐部里，主要和年幼的孩子们一起工作。那时候，国际网球联合会推出了‘玩与学’和‘十岁网球’这些项目，而我当时在英国，国际网联的总部也设在那里。我那时已经为英国网球协会做教练培训，后来他们开始请我参与不同的项目，做一些有趣的事情，还到处旅行。

So you know I was coaching a club and you know got pretty good at my business, employed a few other coaches and then at some point I started spending a lot more time as I actually owned a very small club working a lot with younger kids and then the ITF came along with play and stay and tennis tens and all those kind of things and I was in The UK at the time, the ITF was based at the time and I was already tutoring for the LTA, doing coach education for the LTA and then they started asking me to do different things, Got to do a few different projects, some fun things, travel around.

经过八个不同的国家之后，我现在主要在纽约工作，管理着十三家俱乐部和三百五十五名教练，这真是一段奇妙的旅程。

Eight countries later I'm kind of like working out of New York with 13 clubs and two thirty five coaches and it's you one of those kind of journeys.

你真正关心的是帮助别人，我觉得这就是全部了。

You're interested in just helping people and I think that's it.

如果你是个教练，重点不在于上YouTube或者搞什么大型线上活动。

If you're a coach, it's not about like getting on YouTube or doing some kind of big thing online.

重点在于，我该怎么真正帮助我面前的这个人？

It's about, oh, how do we actually help the guy in front of me?

我该怎么帮助那些球员？

How do I help the players?

我该怎么帮助那些教练？

How do I help the coaches?

而且，是的，这其实就是教练工作。

And, yeah, it's just coaching.

每次有人做那种自我介绍时，我觉得都挺有意思的，因为对我来说，我更喜欢保持一点匿名性。

And I'll I I it's kind of interesting every time someone does one of those intros because for me, I I kind of prefer to be a little bit anonymous.

我其实更愿意站在幕后，因为我觉得这才是教练该做的，对吧？

I actually prefer to be a little bit in the background really because I think that's what a coach does, right?

是的，当然。

Yeah, for sure.

我的意思是，你从80个国家来到了美国，而我认为美国目前正在应对的一个问题是教练工作，也就是教练领域的发展。

I mean, yeah, I mean out of 80 countries you've landed in The US and I think something that The US is tackling at the minute is coaching, know, is coaching a lot.

我很想知道你是如何看待教练工作演变的。

I'd be interested to know how you think coaching has evolved.

你提到了教练工作，比如教练教练，或者帮助你面前的人。

You brought up sort of coaching, you know, coaching coaches or helping the person in front of you.

这并不是在线完成的。

It's not done online.

它是面对面进行的。

It is done face to face.

而且我认为，随着现在的发展，人工智能技术，你会回来的。

And I think with what, you know, with way things are going, AI technology, you know, you come back.

所以我认为教练或教学不会改变。

So I don't think coaching or teaching is gonna change.

你仍然会影响你面前的人。

You are still going to be influencing the people in front of you.

话虽如此，你如何看待教练教育这一角色这些年来的发展？在这些文化变迁下，你认为它将走向何方？

So with that being said, like, how have you seen how the the role of coaching education, how has it developed over the years that you've seen and where do you see it leading to with all these changes that are going on sort of culturally?

我一向主张把事情简化，因为我总是说，我得把它简化，因为我挺笨的。

So I'm I'm I'm a big one for making things very simple because I always say I'm I have to make it simple because I'm quite dumb.

如果我不把它简化，我自己也理解不了。

So if I don't make it simple I don't understand it myself.

所以你知道吗，几年前或者更早的时候，我提出了一个想法：一个优秀的教练就像一个好警察、好医生、好酒保。

So you know it's funny a few years ago or quite some time ago I came up with this idea a great coach is a good policeman, good doctor, a good bartender.

意思是，警察善于组织和结构化事物，医生提升表现或做其他相关的事情，而酒保则擅长建立关系，让你感到开心，诸如此类的事情。

Know as in policemen organize and structures things really well, doctors improve performance or whatever and bartenders kind of build relationships and make you feel happy and all those kind of things.

这对我来说是一个非常简单的方式来向我的教练们解释：我们都认识一些很棒的酒保，但他们并不是好医生；我们也认识一些出色的警察，但他们并不是好酒保。

And it was really easy way to explain it to my coaches, we all know a great bartender who isn't a very good doctor or we all know a great policeman who isn't a very good bartender.

当你深入研究时，我会把它们当作三个独立的小岛，最终它们会在中间交汇，形成一个三者重叠的文氏图，你通过设定约束来组织这三者，从而创造出学习本身。

And as you dive deep into them, I sort of start them as three separate little islands and eventually they cross in the middle and become a Venn diagram where all those three things you organize with constraints so that you create learning in itself.

你与球员建立关系，这样他们才会更愿意听你的话。

You build relationships with players so that they will listen to you in more of a way.

如果我回看我刚起步时的教练培训，那时的教练培训完全是围绕‘医生’这一角色展开的。

I think if I look back on Coach Education when I first started, coach education was doctor, doctor, doctor focused.

没错，那时关注的是如何提前改善，如何实现目标，如何做到这些，完全是从技术层面出发，甚至都不是技能层面。

Right it was like how do I improve beforehand, how do I make this happen, how do I and it was very much coming from this, not even the skill I would say it was the technique.

比如，这是教你如何教男孩，这是教你如何教这些内容，然后他们再加一些‘警察’的元素。

Know this is how you teach a boy, this is how you teach these things And then they'd add on some policeman stuff.

比如，这是如何组织球场。

Know, like, this is how you organize a court.

这是如何在球场上组织球员的。

This is how you organize fire players on a court.

所以你会说，嘿，球员们在

So you're gonna say, hey, players on

球场上。

a court.

你知道，这些

You know, the

商业方面的事情。

business kind of things.

然后他们中途忘了，其实没人喜欢你，也没人听你的。

And then they forgot halfway through that really no one likes you, no one's listening to you.

所以如果你不擅长与人相处的那部分，我认为这正是目前仍然欠缺的地方。

So if you don't actually do the sort of if you're not good at the people stuff, and I think that's that's the thing that still falls down on.

如果你现在看看，教练教育的很大一部分都是关于如何分析正手击球。

If you look now, so much of coach education is like, let's analyze it forehand.

研究诺瓦克·德约科维奇的生物力学之类的，然后你会说，好吧，这很厉害，但我面对的是一个UTR为7的12岁女孩，她和那位选手完全不像，沟通方式不同，文化背景也不同，而且她还是第三个孩子或第二个孩子，总是停不下来，诸如此类的事情。

Work out the biomechanics of Novak Djokovic or blah blah blah and you go okay that's great but I'm dealing with a 12 year old girl who's a seven UTR and doesn't look anything like that player And doesn't communicate in the same way and doesn't have the same cultural background and oh they're a third child or they're a second child and they never shut up those kind of things.

所以你知道，从根本上说，教练就是帮助一个人从一个地方走到另一个地方的人。

So you know it's like ultimately coaching, I love the definition, a coach is someone that takes somebody from one place to another.

我认为，如果我们现在来看教练工作，我们正站在一个转折点上，越来越多的人，包括你们中的许多人，都在撞墙般地喊着：是的，教练不是关于正手击球，而是关于理解球员。

And I think if we look at coaching now, we're sort of on the precipice of moving much more towards that with lots of people amongst you guys as well banging your head on the door going, yeah coaching is not about like a forehand, it's about understanding the player.

但我们现在仍然受到很多旧有观念的影响，正规教练教育更侧重于如何教授网球这项运动，而不是我们真正要交付的是：如何教这个球员，如何与这个球员合作，如何与这个球员沟通，如何与这个球员建立关系。

But still we've got a lot of those influences harping back to formal coach education is much more about how you teach the game of tennis as opposed to teaching the game of tennis is the thing we're going to deliver but actually it's how I teach that player, how I work with that player, how I communicate with that player, build relationships with that player.

而我现在的工作是网球执行总监，这意味着我要负责管理13家俱乐部，我可能在办公桌前待得太久了，但我依然热爱执教，虽然我并不必须这么做。

And in my job right now I only, I'm the executive director of tennis which means I have a big role looking after 13 clubs, I probably spend way too long on my desk but I still love to coach, I don't have to.

我指导三个女孩，两个14岁，一个12岁。

I coach three girls, two 14 year olds and a 12 year old.

她们在全国范围内都相当不错，但作为个性、为人、学习方式以及我们为她们设计的打法，她们彼此差异巨大。

They're pretty good in the country and they could not be more different as personalities, as people, as the way they learn, as the games we're trying to create for them.

我认为优秀教练和好教练的区别在于，好教练首先把球员当作人来理解，并真正开始根据她们本来的样子去培养她们。

And I think the difference between okay coach and a good coach is a good coach understands them as people first and really starts to kind of build them as who they are.

这可以追溯到教练的原始概念，即体育是由将军们创造出来训练军队的，目的是让士兵们学会协作、共同工作、培养价值观和行为准则。

It goes back to the primeval concept of coaching which is you know of sport which is sport was created by generals to train armies so they could collaborate, work together, learn values, learn behaviors.

而我们作为教练，本应做的是这些，但很多时候我们又回到了如何事先教授技术的问题上。

And that's what we're supposed to be doing as coaches, but so often it goes back to how do we teach beforehand?

于是你会想，好吧，是的。

And you go, okay, yeah.

但问题在于，当你刚开始时，你确实会想要那种东西。

And the problem with that is it's when you start you kind of want that.

当你刚开始时，你可能会想要一种固定模式，比如总说要搭一座桥。

When you start you kind of want like, oh, always say it's the bridge.

这座桥在哪里？

How's the bridge here?

我该从哪里开始，到哪里结束，桥的两边是什么，怎样过桥才是最好的方式？

Like where do I start, where do I finish, what's the sides of the bridge, what's the best way to cross it?

而不是去思考，我们如何发现不同的过河方式，我怎样才能最快到达彼岸，诸如此类的问题？

You know versus the you know how can we discover different ways to go across it, how can I get there fastest, those kind of things?

而不是如何让这座桥变得更好、更坚固、更完善、更先进。

As opposed to how to make the bridge better and stronger and more developed and more evolved.

因此，这个人拥有了可以真正向前运用的工具。

So this person has tools that they can really take forward.

所以我认为教练方式正在朝这个方向发展。

So I think coaching is moving that way.

我认为教练方式正在转变。

I think coaching is moving.

这三个方面正在扩大，我们正逐渐接近那个核心点：啊，原来要让这个人听我的，我需要赢得他们的信任，需要与他们建立良好的关系，需要理解他们的出发点，现在我需要以最有效的方式组织活动，即使我不说话，这个人也能学到东西。

Those three bubbles are getting bigger and we're getting to that central point where it's, ah right, in order to get this person to listen to me, need to have them trust me, I need to build a good relationship with them, I need to understand where they're coming from and now I need to organize the activities in a way that's most efficient so that that person's learning even if I'm not talking.

诸如此类的事情。

Those sorts of things.

但传统的教练教育方式并不是这样的。

But the traditional way of, that's not the traditional model of coach education.

传统的教练教育模式是：我能把它打包吗？我能卖给你吗？我能在结束时测试你，看你是否达到了所有能力标准吗？

The traditional model of coach education is can I put it in a box, can I sell it to you, can I test you at the end of it to see if you meet all the competencies?

所以是的，这很有趣，因为随着我们越来越远离这种教练教育模式，客观衡量标准正在逐渐消失，变得更具主观性。

So yeah it's an interesting one because of course as more we move away from that model of coach education, the objective measures are disappearing a little bit more and it becomes much more subjective.

最好的教练，你很难说清他们究竟好在哪里。

The best coaches, you can't put their finger on why they're so good.

你提到这一点非常好，这正引导我们走向那个方向。你知道，当我想到我的孩子，他们一个六岁、一个八岁，当然，他们并不太愿意听我的话。

It's great you mentioned that and is leading towards that because, you know, when I think about if, you know, my kids are six and eight and of course, you know, they don't really want to listen to me.

我并不怪他们。

I don't blame them.

但我还是让他们去当地找别人上网球课。

But like, I get them to take tennis lessons from, from somebody else locally.

我的首要标准是：好吧，我就找一个性格很棒、充满乐趣、充满活力的人。只要他们能慢慢学会正确的握拍方式、挥拍轨迹等技巧，我就满足了。

And my first criteria is like, okay, like I I'm just gonna find somebody that has great personality, that brings a lot of fun, is dynamic, and I'm like, along the way, if they're gonna pick up more, they're gonna learn how to teach the correct grips and swing paths and whatnot.

但最重要的是，找到一个能和我的孩子建立连接、让他们愿意再来上课的人。

But ultimately, it's finding somebody that can connect with my kids that they wanna go back for another lesson.

过去，我会说这非常注重技术。

And in the past, would say that yes, it's very technical focused.

我认为美国曾经经历了一个阶段，那时我们大力强调技术，确保每个细节都正确，不断强调这一点，我确实看到了你所描述的情况。

I think The US went through a phase where we were doubling down on the technique and making sure the parameters are right and and we were harping on that and I definitely saw what you described in that.

我们可能已经偏离了理解如何教10岁或12岁以下孩子的核心原则——那就是与他们建立联系，通过这种连接激发他们的乐趣和热情。

We probably did move away from understanding what's the core fundamental of teaching a 10 or 12 and under kid and that's connecting with them, having that connection so that they can, you know, you can sprout that enjoyment and that passion for it.

从那里开始，你就可以学习任何东西。

And then from there, you you know, you can learn anything.

你可以学会如何教学，当然，你最好具备扎实的基本功，但把建立联系放在更重要的位置，意味着我不会偏离这个方向。

You can learn how to teach, you know, you obviously have a hopefully have a good fundamental basis of where you're starting to teach, But making that more of a priority is like, okay, I'm not gonna move away.

我不会过分专注于教正手击球，而忘记自己真正要做的，是与孩子建立联系，让训练对他们来说有趣且充满活力。

I'm not gonna be so harped on teaching a forehand that I forget that I'm trying to connect with this kid and make it fun and dynamic for them.

所以我非常赞同你刚才说的。

And so I really like what you said there.

作为一名现在正带着孩子经历这一切的家长，你会从一个不同的角度来看待这个问题。

And as somebody is now as a parent who's kind of going through with his kids, you look at it from a different viewpoint.

那么，拉里，你对此有什么看法？

And so Larry, what's your thoughts there?

嗯，不错的想法，各位。

Well, yeah, good thoughts guys.

你知道吗，听你们这么说，我感受到我们对教练方式的理解正在演变，越来越强调引导、理解，以及以运动员为中心——这是我们现在常听到的说法，迈克。

You know, think that as I listened to this, I hear sort of this evolving way we think about coaching more as guiding, understanding, making it athlete centered is terminology that we hear, Mike.

在你接触的教练中，或者你在各种活动中遇到的教练里，你认为他们最需要改进的地方在哪里？

Where do you see like the coaches that you're working with or coaches that you run into and all the different things that you do, where do you then see the biggest needs in their improvement?

是更多地体现在这种‘调酒师’角色、关系建立方面吗？

Is it related to more of this bartender role, the relationship building?

你觉得我们在美国最需要帮助的地方在哪里？

Like where do you see our America most helpful?

我有点不想说，就像我之前说的，这看似是三件事，但其实不是三件事。

I sort of don't wanna, like I said it's kind of like three things but it's not three things.

因为优秀的教练工作发生在这三个方面的交集处。

Because good coaching happens where all those three bubbles intersect.

有趣的是，昨天我在北卡罗来纳州，因为一个朋友的朋友、我女朋友的朋友请我给他的儿子上一节网球课。

So it's kind of interesting, like yesterday I was in North Carolina because a friend of a friend, friend of my girlfriend asked me to give his son a tennis.

我从未见过他的儿子，我们一上球场，这堂课的核心就成了：我该怎么和我的孩子们一起打球？

I've never met his son and we go in the court and really the lesson was how do I play with my kids?

这让我想起了约翰尼之前说的。

It goes back to what johnny was saying.

我该怎么和我的孩子们一起打球，而不是去教他？

How do I play with my kids so I'm not teaching him?

别太技术化。

Getting technical.

我走上球场时，发现地上有一个橙色的球，被画在了球场的线上。

And it came down to I walked on the court and there was an orange ball caught on the court like the lines marked out.

球场上还画着匹克球的场地线。

There was a pickleball marked out on the court.

所以到处都是线，我们一开始就说：你用这些线自己画一个球场，我们就在这些区域里玩一局，他选了一个很大的场地，因为孩子总是这样。

So there were all these lines everywhere and we started off with right, you make a court out of these lines and we'll play a game in those spaces and he chose like a big court because the kids always do.

好吧，现在轮到我了，我们打五分，我选了一个非常短但很宽的小场地，就在发球区旁边，因为匹克球的场地正好覆盖在上面，所以我们有‘厨房线’之类的区域。

I've been, so okay now it's my turn, we play for five points and I chose a very short but very wide little court right by the service boxes because we had the pickable court have been created right over the top so we had the kitchen line or whatever it's called.

抱歉，我不是pickleball专家。

Sorry not pickable expert.

因此，孩子必须使用的技能因核心区域的不同形状和大小而有显著差异，这是基本的限制条件。

And so instantly the skills that the child had to use were very different based on the different shape and size of the core, basic constraints.

当你和孩子一起工作时，我通常根本不会谈技术，但我经常会问：你感觉有力吗？你保持平衡了吗？你觉得自己放松了吗？

Think one of the things about when you're working with kids is I don't normally talk any technique at all, but I do talk about are you feeling strong, are you on balance, did you feel like did you feel like you were relaxed then?

所以，为了让孩子理解他们正在做什么，就像我前几天对一个孩子说的：如果你要发射太空火箭，你是想从果冻上发射，还是从坚硬的地面上发射？你怎么才能击中目标？

So to try and get kids to kind of understand what they're doing, know like I said to a kid the other day, if you're launching your space rocket do you want to launch it off jello or you want to launch it off hard ground, how are you going to hit your target?

这一切都关乎他在击球前的准备姿势中没有保持平衡，但我从未提及这一点。

And this was all about like he wasn't on balance before he in the pre throw position before he threw his racket but never mentioned any of that.

只是问：在这个姿势中，你感觉有力吗？

Just like how do you feel strong in this position?

这种姿势感觉有力吗？

Does this feel strong?

如果我要找击球点，我会走过去，让你告诉我你打算在哪里击中球，然后用你的球拍推我的球拍。

If I'm finding a contact point I go up and go tell me where you're gonna make contact with ball, push against my racket.

然后我把他们的球拍移到各个不同位置，接着就说：‘就在你感觉有力的地方击球。’

Then I move their racket to all these different positions and say, and then I just say hit it in your strong place.

这很有趣，因为我们有时使用的术语其实是网球教练之间交流的方式。

So it's interesting because the jargon that we use sometimes is our way of communicating tennis coaches.

我每年都会为ATP/WTA的退役球员举办一门课程，地点通常在迈阿密或巴黎之类的地方，每年我都会问他们正手该用哪种握拍方式，你会惊讶于有多少人根本不知道。

I do a course every year for retiring players for the ATPWTA, nice little jaunts either in Miami or it's in Paris or something like that, and I ask them every year what grip to use in the forehand and you'd be surprised how many people have no idea.

所以我们用的很多术语都是行话。

So there's a lot of stuff that we use in our jargon.

大多数教练并不知道为什么它叫东方式或半西方式握拍。

Most coaches don't know why it's called an Eastern or a semi Western grip.

他们也不知道为什么这么叫。

They don't know why it's called that.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，关于我们当前的教练方向，一个有趣的地方是，我们必须开始思考为什么要做这些事，并且要让整个教学过程充满激励性。

It's just that there weren't So I think one of the interesting things about kind of where we're going on coaching is we have to start thinking about why we're doing what we're doing and we have to make the bit most, all the teaching process motivational.

我们平时经常忽略很多技能，但其实这些技能随时随地都能用上。

And there's a lot of skills that we don't think about but we can use from all around us all the time.

所以我不觉得教练需要成为一个更好的调酒师，因为我认识一些曾经是调酒师的教练，他们和孩子打球时，孩子却一直没有进步，因为他们没有调整环境，没有改变条件，没有运用限制，也没有抓住那些教学时机。

And so I don't feel like the coach needs to be a better bartender because I know coaches who were bartenders played with their children and the kid never got better because they didn't modify the environment, they didn't change things, they didn't use constraints, they didn't look for those teaching moments.

但我认为这确实是一种你需要掌握的技能。

But I think it's a skill you do need.

所以一开始，我们有个教练参加我们的一级培训——我们每年都会让新教练参加为期三天的一级培训，之后他们才能正式开始执教，而这位教练非常安静。

And so you start with, I had one coach we were training on our level one so we have new coaches coming in, they do a level one with us over three days before they you know start coaching and he was very quiet.

于是我们讨论了有效提问，只是简单地谈了谈如何提问。

And so we talked about effective questioning, Just talked about asking questions.

你该怎么进行对话？

How do you have conversations?

突然间，他变得非常活跃，我说：你唯一改变的就是，不再想着如何提供信息，而是开始思考如何提出问题。

And all of a sudden he was really noisy and I said all you did differently was instead of thinking about giving information you thought about asking questions.

所以我认为，我不想让人觉得调酒师这个角色就是全部，这个角色背后其实有个很长的故事：我当初到纽约，在皇后区的一家酒吧里遇到一位爱尔兰调酒师，我听出他的口音，就和他聊了几句，告诉他我正要回英国卖房子。

And so I think I don't want to make it sound like the bartender role, there's a long story behind the bartender role which was basically I turned up in New York, went to a bar in Queens, there was an Irish bartender, recognized the accent, asked me a few questions, told him I was going back to England to sell my house.

我其实并不是一个喜欢酒吧的人，尽管我是英国人。

I'm not actually a bar person despite being English.

三个月后我回去，他还记得我，记得我的故事，我当时就想，这真是最原始、最极致的关系管理。

Went back three months later and he remembered me and remembered my story and I was like wow that is relationship management at its primal right, at its absolute best.

所以我认为，我们必须明白，优秀的教练会融合这三种角色，同时做到这三件事。

You know so I think it's important that we understand that good coaches merge all of those three roles and do all those three things together.

你必须成为情境的出色设计师，能够创造出非常适合孩子学习的环境，但你也必须给予孩子和教练们自由。

You have to be a really good architect of the situation, you have to be able to build very good situations in which kids learn, But you also have to give the kids the freedom to and the coaches.

孩子和教练们，你知道，你必须站在他们的立场上与他们相处。

The kids and the coaches, you know, you have to meet them where they are.

你必须给予他们表达自己声音和想法的自由。

You have to give them the freedom to have their voice and have their ideas.

昨天的课程中，那个小男孩就做到了这一切，他自己设计了计分系统。

The lesson yesterday, this little boy, had all that he was he was the one that made up the scoring systems.

如果我只是控制环境，比如形状和那些类似的东西，我根本不需要设计计分系统。

I didn't need to make a scoring system if I was controlling the environment, you know, the shapes and all those kind of things.

所以我觉得，有时候教练会感到很大的压力，觉得自己必须把事情做对。

So it's kind of like I think sometimes coaches feel like they're under a lot of pressure to get things right.

你已经当教练很久了。

You've been coaching a long time.

你明白这并不是一个必须把事情做对的情境。

You understand this is not a get things right situation.

这是一个你只是试图让事情变得更好一点的情境。

This situation where you're just trying to make things a little bit better.

我觉得我常对所有教练说的一句话是：我不希望你们把这件事做对。

And I think one of the things I like to say to all the coaches, I don't want you to do this correctly.

我从不希望这件事做到完美，因为如果你觉得它完美了，你就不会认为还需要修改或改进。

I never want this to be perfect, because if you think it's perfect, then you don't think you need to modify or improve it.

指导一名球员，无论你是谁，你的目标都是让他们变得更好一点。

Coaching a player, whoever you've got you're supposed to make them a little bit better.

所以你继续前进，设置好一个情境，然后退后一步问：这有效吗？无效吗？我还能怎么改进？

So you go on, you set something up and you stand back and you go is this working, is this not working and how can I make it better?

我认为，如果你一开始就采取这种态度，教练们就会想：哦，所以我只要做对就行了，我不必追求完美。

And I think if you take that approach straight away coaches go, oh so I'm going to get it right, it's no pressure for me to be perfect.

不，用最实际的方式去安排，和孩子们一起工作的妙处在于，他们根本不知道你搞砸了。

No, set it up in the most practical way and the great thing about working with kids is they don't know if you screw up anyway.

所以如果你说：哦，我们换一个角度来处理吧——这其实就是说‘我搞砸了，我们换个方式来做’。

So if you say, oh, let's approach this from a different angle, which is code for I screwed up, we're gonna do it differently.

对吧？

Right?

他们根本不在乎。

They don't care.

这不过是另一场比赛而已。

It's just another game.

我认为教练们需要学会放松，尤其是那些新来的年轻教练。

So I think one of the things about coaches is trying to get them to relax, especially the new young ones.

这些新来的年轻教练是Z世代的，你知道的，我不太喜欢给人贴标签，但他们从小就被教育：你的声音很重要。

The new young ones are gen z coaches that are coming in, know, and I don't like to badge people too much, but they've been raised to be told your voice is important.

他们有自己的观点和想法，因此如果他们感受到一个合适的环境，他们确实愿意表达出来。

They have opinions, they have ideas, and so they actually do want to speak up if they understand there's the right environment for them to do it.

当然，有时候他们的想法比你还好，但你不能通过给新来的年轻教练一份照本宣科的脚本去激励他们——这招不管用。

And sometimes they come on better ideas than you do of course, but you can't motivate the new young coaches by you know, here's a script following what to do, doesn't work.

所以，迈克，

So Mike,

无论我们讨论的是CLA方法，还是教练整体上能否将这三个方面融合到他们的教学中，年轻教练们对此反应如何呢？

whether we talk about the CLA approach or overall the coaches being able to bring those kind of three aspects together in their coaching right, how do coaches, young coaches take to that then?

因为这可能和他们自己被教导的方式不同，甚至不是他们心目中教练该做的事。

Because it may not have been how they were coached or what they even think that the coach should be doing.

当你向他们介绍这种方法时，他们会自然地接受吗？

When you're bringing this approach to them do they gravitate to that?

他们能很快看到这种方法的好处吗？

Do they see the benefits of that pretty quickly?

你认为他们会如何回应？

Like how do you see them respond?

这又是一种方法，你知道，很多大学教练都在用。

Again it's an approach where you know first of all a lot of college coaches do use that.

大学教练们采用的是我所说的‘边走边教’的方式。

College coaches do what I call TBWA, teach by walking around.

他们安排好训练，然后四处走动，随机叫出几个人来指导。

They set up a practice and they'll reach walk around and then just pull a couple people out right?

我的意思是，这确实是好的教练方式。

I mean but it's good coaching.

我不是说，我记得是这样，但这确实是好的教练方式。

I'm not I call it you know, this is where I remember it but it's good coaching.

所以我问你，你的大学教练是怎么教你的？

So I said you know how your college coach coached?

你就应该用同样的方式去教练，对吧？

That's how you should be coaching right?

不应该说，我绝不会把所有人排成一排然后这样做。

It's like it shouldn't be I'm never gonna put everyone in a line and do this.

不应该过度控制。

It shouldn't be hyper controlled.

我们应该创造一个情境，探索这个情境，听取你的想法。

It should be let's build a situation, let's explore the situation, let's get your ideas.

对于任何类型的教练来说都是如此。

So it's the same with any kind of coach.

如果你想与这种类型的教练互动和合作，首先要找到共同点，搭建桥梁。

If you want to interact and work with that kind of coach, the first thing is find the commonalities and find the bridge.

如果我去参加一个讲座，面对一些我了解是传统型风格的教练，他们双臂交叉、不认真听，但他们通常技术非常扎实。

If I go into a presentation and I've got coaches who I know are more traditional style coaches and their arms are folded and they're not listening, normally they're very good technical.

你知道，那些经常在篮下指导的教练，通常更关注技术。

You know normally the coaches who feed from the basket a lot are looking for technique.

当你向他们解释说：哦，是的，当你站在篮下时，你是警察、医生还是服务员中的哪一种？

When you explain to them oh yeah when you stand next to the basket, which one of those policeman doctor bartenders are you?

他就会说：哦，对，我做不到的是医生，当我站在公交车旁时。

And he goes oh yeah, the one I can't do is the doctor when I'm stood next to the bus.

是的，但你在这方面非常出色，你真的很擅长，这就是你的知识所在。

Yeah but you're amazing at that, you're really good at that, that's where your knowledge base is.

所以我认为关键在于找到它们的交集。

So I think it's finding spaces where they cross.

年轻教练们，当你回想一下，作为球员，他们当球员的日子并不久远，你作为球员还记得当时你怎么做这件事，或者你是怎么解决这个问题的，在这种情况下你关注的是什么？

The young coaches when you go, oh, you as a player, it's not so long ago they were a player, you as a player remember when you did this or how did you solve this or what were you looking for in this situation?

这太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

还有你的大学教练也是这样。

And and your college coach this way.

然后再次强调，正如我所说，要把教练工作看作是一种探索。

And then also again as I said, looking at coaching is exploration.

看待教练工作时，我们在JMTA（约翰·麦卡洛伊网球学院）使用四个价值观，这些都契合约翰成长过程中的理念，就是我们所说的承诺、引领、探索和拼搏。

Looking at coaching as we use four values in JMTA which is John McElroy Tennis Academy which all kind of fit behind John's tenants he was growing up and it's just like we just have commit, lead, explore and battle right.

承诺意味着努力工作，引领意味着以身作则，这些都是关于尊重的内容。

So commit is about working hard, lead is lead by example so it's all the respect stuff.

探索意味着富有创造力，提出新想法，解决问题；而战斗则是应对逆境。

Explore is about being creative, coming up with new ideas, solving problems and battle is just deal with adversity.

我们为球员制定了这些价值观，但就在提出后两周，我突然意识到：这些对教练也同样适用。

So we came up with those for the players and then I literally hit myself over the head within two weeks of coming up with them and going they're the same for the coaches.

那么，如果我回过头来看，教练们会获得哪些奖项？他们会得到‘探索’奖吗？

So if I go back to which awards would coaches get, do they get explore?

顺便说一句，这是我们的教练们最难颁出的一个奖项。

Which is the one by the way our coaches find the most difficult to give away.

有意思。

Interesting.

他们觉得‘领导’和‘投入’非常容易，‘战斗’也很容易。

They found lead and commit really easy and battle was easy.

这充分反映了他们的思维方式。

So it just shows you a lot about how they're thinking as well.

这又回到了我一开始说的：教练就是教练。

It goes back to what I said right at the start, coaching is coaching.

教练并不在乎你教的是谁。

Coaching doesn't matter who you're coaching.

不管你是在管理中指导员工，还是在指导其他教练或运动员，都是一样的。

Doesn't matter if you're in management, you're coaching your employees or you're coaching other coaches or you're coaching players.

教练的本质仍然是希望对方最终能比你更成功，大多数时候都是如此。

Coaching still is wanting to do something in order to see the other person be ultimately more successful than even even than you are most of the time.

我认为，如果你把这种理念带到社交媒体的世界里，毕竟每个人都想出名，那你就不会走错路。

And I think if you take that kind of philosophy mentality even in the world of social media and you know everyone's got to be famous, then you won't go far wrong.

非常有共鸣，是的，因为抱歉，JP，就我的教练经验而言，更多是心理层面的，心理学方面，但本质上是一样的，你都在帮助他们实现目标。

Resonates strongly, yeah, here because yeah, sorry JP, just in my coaching as you know, would be more on the mental side, psychology and yet it's the same thing where you're trying to help them reach their goals.

当你从这个角度出发时，你会开始以不同的方式看待这种关系。

And when you start with that, you start to think differently about that relationship.

但我认为，拉里，一切都是心理学。

But I think Larry everything's psychology.

一切都是心理学。

Everything's psychology.

归根结底，理解球员就是心理学。

Know it's like ultimately at the end of the day it's like understanding a player, that's psychology.

懂得如何激励别人，这也是心理学。

Understanding how to motivate somebody, that's psychology.

一切关键在于你如何传递信息。

Everything comes how you deliver a message.

一切皆如此，我觉得年轻时我以为 coaching 是有固定框架的。

Everything is and that's the thing I think when I was younger I thought coaching was in a box.

但现在我想的是，我该如何真正运用比喻？我经常用比喻，这样大家在训练中更容易记住，但你知道，我不能给熊猫做鱼子酱。

And now I think, how do I actually, how do I I use analogies a lot it makes everyone remember it in the training but you know like I can't create caviar for pandas.

我的意思是，信息必须容易消化。

It's like it has to be digestible is what I mean.

就像你知道的，食物可能很棒，但如果给错动物、在错的时间、以错的方式提供，那就完全不合适。

It's like you know it could be great food but if it's for the wrong animal at the wrong time in the wrong way it's just it doesn't fit.

所以我认为，这其中的心理学，每个人都真的需要理解。

So I think the psychology of it, everybody really needs to under.

我的大部分教育经历来自于阅读育儿书籍、运动心理学书籍、商业书籍，还有各种不同领域的书，你慢慢会发现，每个人都在做同样的事——都希望帮助别人进步。

I mean most of my education was I've read books on parenting, I've read books on sports psychology, I've read books on business, I've read books on you know all different little spaces you go to and you realize everyone's trying to do the same thing, everyone's trying to help somebody else improve what they're doing.

我想谈谈探索这部分，因为我觉得这属于教练工作的一部分。

I wanna talk about the explore part because I think that's within coaching.

作为一个刚入行的年轻教练，你靠教练工作能赚到不错的收入，当这种情况发生时，你会想：好吧，现在该谈谈承诺的价值了。

As a young coach that gets into it, you can you can make decent money coaching and as that starts to happen, you go, okay, let's talk about commit as the value.

于是我越努力工作，赚的钱就越多。

Well then the harder I work, the more money that I make.

很快，你就成了一个在球场上投入成百上千小时的教练。

And soon enough, you become a coach that is working many many hours on the courts.

也许这正是这份工作的要求，或者你属于某个公司或企业。

Maybe that's what the job requires or maybe you're part of a company or a business.

这听起来很棒。

It's like, that's great.

你想干多少小时就干多少小时。

Do as many hours as you want.

现在你赚钱了。

Now you're making your money.

设施在赚钱。

Facility is making money.

项目在赚钱。

Programs make money.

很好。

Great.

你正在帮助孩子们，还有很多人，成年人，不管是谁。

You're helping kids out, lots of people, adults, whatever it may be.

但接下来发生的是，没有足够的时间去探索。

But then what happens is is there's not enough time to explore.

因为根据我的经验，探索部分发生在规划、准备和反思中，对吧？

Because in my experience, found the exploration part happens in the planning, the preparation, also the reflection, right?

我很幸运，能够观察并从你这样的人，或者我周围接触过的人，比如美国网球协会、ING等那里学习。

So I've been fortunate to be able to watch and learn from people like yourself or people that I was around or exposed to a USTA, ING, wherever.

其中一部分就是能够观察、学习，然后去实践，并制定计划。

And part of that is being able to watch, learn, and then go and apply and then put plans together.

所以，好吧，我正在和这位球员、这个地方打交道，他们遇到了特定的问题。

So, okay, I'm meeting with this player, this place having this particular issue.

我可能看到过一些情况，但我要如何根据这个球员的风格和学习方式来实施呢？

I may have seen a couple of things, but how am I gonna implement it for a style that that fits this particular player in their learning style.

对吧？

Right?

根据我的经验，计划和反思往往是大多数教练没有时间或不愿抽出时间去做的部分。

So in my experience, planning and reflection is often an area that just most coaches don't have time for or don't make the time for.

所以，对于你来说，教导教练如何成为优秀的教练——无论是教10岁以下的孩子、初学者，还是高水平球员——重点是什么？

So for you teaching coaches how to be great coaches, whether it be teaching 10 and under, beginners, performance players, whatever it may be, what is the emphasis?

比如，你如何教导教练们进行探索？是否强调要离开球场，静下心来思考问题、解决问题、把想法写下来？

Like, how do you teach that exploration part for coaches, and is there emphasis on taking time off the court to be able to be one with your thoughts, to think things through, to solve those problems, to write them down?

你是如何做到这一点的？

How do you go about that?

其中一个很有趣的事情是，我们公司规模很大，我经常提到的两点是，教练的驱动力其实很简单。

One of the things that's quite interesting is you know we have a very big company and the two things I kind of reference a lot is one of them I say is the drivers for coaches are pretty easy.

那就是金钱、尊重和效率。

It's money respect and efficiency.

所以每个人的情况就像一个饼图一样。

So there are and everyone's like a cake, like a pie graph right?

有些人非常注重经济利益，我这么说并不是贬义——如果你有三个孩子，想送他们上大学，作为教练你必须关注财务问题，你不能免费提供一切。

So some people are very financially driven and I don't say that in a bad way like if you have three kids and you want put them through college you better be focused on finances as a coach you know you can't give away things for free.

然后是尊重，就是把工作做得出色；另一点是，教练的工作时间不规律，耗时很长，因此效率也很重要。如果我要提出一个想法或概念，就必须先理解这位教练最主要的动机，我通常会优先使用这一点。

And then there's respect is just doing a really good job and then the other thing is look it's unsociable hours, it's a long time and so efficiency also means like so if I'm presenting an idea or a concept, have to understand how that coach is motivated mostly and I'll normally use that one first.

所以如果我知道约翰尼特别看重金钱，我会先跟他谈钱，然后告诉他这会让他成为一名更好的教练，最后再讲这能帮他节省时间。

So if I know Johnny is really about money, I'll talk to Johnny first about the money and then I'll talk to him about how this is gonna make him a better coach and then I'll talk to him about how you know this is going to save him time.

而且我觉得，当我们开发产品时，我们都忍不住笑，因为我们都在联合会工作。

And I also think when we're creating products, we all laugh because we all work for federations.

‘主动性’的定义就是，一个主动性会被另一个主动性取代。

The definition of initiative and initiative is something that gets replaced by another initiative.

所以最终我们看到一些东西来了又走，因为有人觉得这是个好主意，但他们没满足那三个条件。

So ultimately we've seen things come and go because somebody thought it was a great idea but they didn't tick off those three boxes.

如果它不符合那两个条件，即使你非常喜欢，它也很难长期持续下去。我总是说，我们最大的竞争对手就是我们最热爱的东西，因为最终，我们最热爱的东西反而成了阻碍——我们觉得它很棒，但别人都觉得没那么好。

If it doesn't fit those two boxes it probably won't be sticky long term even if you love it and I always say our biggest competitor is our greatest passion because ultimately our greatest passion gets in the way because we think it's great but everybody else is like not so good.

最后我想说的，稍微绕一下回到刚才的问题，我认为我接触过四种类型的教练。

And the last thing I'll say sort of then I'll come back to kind of question is sort of skating around a bit is I think I've got four kinds of coaches.

我有二三十岁的教练，我有四种类型的教练。

I have two thirty coaches, I have four kinds of coaches.

他们都是好教练，而且都很努力。

They're all good coaches and they work hard.

我很高兴地说，作为一家公司，我们的员工不仅在交付质量上有所提升，士气等方面也有了改善。

I'm happy to say that as a company our staff has improved not just in terms of delivery quality but also in terms of morale and those kinds things.

但我也有富有远见的教练。

But I have visionary coaches.

富有远见的教练想当教练，而且想一辈子当教练。

Now a visionary coach wants to be a coach, they want to a coach forever.

这是他们的特点，他们充满热情，就是那种我们希望每个教练都能像的样子。

This is their thing, they're passionate, they're the people that you know like we all wished every coach would be like.

他们就像我昨天开车时查看球员表现那样，虽然我其实没开车，但你知道的，就是那种情况。

They're like me checking the results of my players yesterday when I'm driving down from, not I wasn't actually driving but you know down from those kind of things.

然后我有士兵型教练。

Then I have soldiers.

士兵型教练是扎实可靠的教学专家。

Soldiers are good solid teaching pros.

他们出去工作，认真授课，准时到场，每天微笑面对，完成所有要求的任务，回家后连网球都不再想一下。

They go out, they do the work, they deliver a nice lesson, they turn up, they smile every day, they do everything's asked of them, they go home and they don't think about tennis for a second.

然后我有岛民型教练。

Then I have islanders.

岛民型教练会待上一阵子，然后就会离开去做别的事情。

Islanders are going to be approached for a while and then they're going to move on and do something else.

或者他们之前可能做过别的工作，现在只是暂时来接受教练指导。

Or they maybe did something else before and they're to be coached for a while.

但这只是他们职业生涯中的一个中途站。

But this is a stop along their career path.

也许因为他们是出色的球员，或者不管怎样，这只是一个轻松的停留点。

Maybe because they're a great player or you know whatever they just this is an easy stopping point.

然后我还有探索者，他们自己也不太清楚为什么来这里，但觉得可以试试看。

And then I have explorers who aren't really sure why they're there but they thought they'd give this a go.

所以，回到你之前的问题，我刚才说了这么久，你可能得重复一下，但首先我想说的是，我不能指望每个人都是有远见的人。

So my first sort of thing going back to your question and you might have to repeat it because I've talked for so long now, but the first sort of thing is I can't expect everyone to be a visionary.

我所能期待的只是，当他们在这里的时候，尽自己所能，做出贡献；当他们准备离开时，我会与他们握手，衷心感谢他们的时间。

All I can expect is while they're with us they do what they can and they contribute and when they're ready to go and move on I shake their hands and say thank you very much I really appreciate your time.

是的，我认为我们这个行业的一个有趣之处在于，有时行业里的人以为每个网球教练都是充满热情、一生都想着网球、看YouTube视频之类的人。

Yeah so I think that's one of the interesting things about our industry is sometimes our industry thinks every tennis coach is a passionate person who spends their life thinking about tennis and watching YouTube clips and those kind of things.

但现实并非如此。

And the reality is no.

对一些人来说，当网球教练只是他们生活中一个很不错的部分，而他们的生活重心在别处，就像其他人一样。

For some people being a tennis coach is a very nice life and they have another big life outside of it it's way more important just like everybody else.

这并不意味着他们在生态系统中不那么重要。

And that doesn't mean they're less important in the ecosystem.

每个人都很重要，探索者在生态系统中也同样重要。

Everyone's just as important and the explorer is just as important in the ecosystem.

所以我认为，当我们开始审视教练时，必须在脑海中建立这个观念，因为你的探索者或士兵可能不会去反思或做那些事情，但你的远见者可能会。

So I think when we start looking at coaches it's kind of really important that we get that idea in our heads because your explorer or your soldier is probably not going to reflect or do all those kind of things but your visionary probably is.

关于考虑他们投入的时间，很多教练每周在球场上工作四十五到五十个小时。

So in terms of factoring in that time, how guys work a lot of hours, most some of them are working forty five, fifty hours a week on the court.

我很难要求他们在球场外也做这么多工作。

It's hard for me to ask them to do that outside of the court.

优秀的教练总是会这么做，因为他们试图解决问题，我认为这种心态不是规划，而是对我们而言，规划并不是重点，因为我们已经规划好了一切。

The good ones always do because they're trying to solve problems and I think that's the mentality is not planning, but for us It's not necessarily planning because we plan everything.

我们有课程体系，为所有球员制定了详细的发展计划。

We have a curriculum, we plan everything out, development plans for all our players.

所以，这与其说是关于规划或反思，不如说是关于探索——我带着打电话的意图去尝试各种方法，寻找有效的方式，而不是带着找到标准答案的目的去打电话。

So it's not necessarily about planning or reflection so much as exploring, as I'm going to go on the call with the intention of trying things out to find something that works as opposed to I'm going to go on the call with the idea of trying to find the answer.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

而且要正确。

And being right.

而且我认为，想要正确或努力证明自己正确——就像我之前说的——会妨碍你，让你以为山顶才是目标。

And I think being right or trying to be right, like I said before, gets in the way you think there's a top of the mountain.

所以，作为教练，与其攀登山峰并认为登顶的价值在于插上旗帜，不如意识到，真正的价值始终在于攀登的过程。

So instead of as a coach climbing the mountain and realizing the value of getting to the top of the mountain had nothing to do with the flag, it was always about climbing.

始终在于学习技能、在途中解决问题。

It was always about learning your skills, solving problems as you go.

因此，如果我们希望培养出独立的批判性思考者，我一位同事多年前说过一句话，我觉得非常棒：在我们的球员身上，这不正是我们希望在教练身上复制的吗？

So if we want to create independent critical thinkers, this is what a colleague of mine said years ago which I thought was a great thought, in our players isn't that what we want to replicate in our coaches?

我会接着你之前提到的一点，关于现在大家都在谈以球员为中心的教练方式，但对我来说，这之前还有一个步骤，那就是以教练为中心的教练方式——这不是指教练掌控一切的那种‘以教练为中心’，而是问：教练是否真正了解自己？

And I'll pick up on one thing you said earlier which is about you know there's a lot of talk about player centered coaching but there are for me there's a step before that which is coach centered coaching which is not coach centered coaching like we think is coach into coaching as in the coaches in charge, it's does the coach know who they are?

教练了解自己的技能水平吗？

Does the coach know where their skills are?

这位教练走上球场时，是抱着今天要努力提升自己作为教练的能力，从而帮助球员进步的心态，还是抱着必须找到正确答案、找不到答案我就不是好教练的心态？

Does this coach walk on the court with the idea of I'm gonna try and improve as a coach today and through that help my players get better or does the coach walk on the court with the mentality of I've got to find the answer, I've to find the answer otherwise I'm a bad coach.

我从16岁开始教网球，现在58岁了。

I've never talked about, I've been coaching tennis since I was 16 years old and I'm 58.

所以四十二年来，一直都是零完美。

So for forty two years, it's forty two years of zero perfection.

我曾经以为1996年7月6日下午2点，我给一个叫本的12岁男孩上了一堂很棒的课，但后来我发现，那节课其实并没有我想象中那么好，对吧？

I thought I taught a good lesson once on 07/06/1996 at 02:00 in the afternoon with this 12 year old boy called Ben, but I learned later on that it just wasn't as good as I thought it was gonna be, right?

因此，从这个角度看，我必须时刻带着探索者的心态去面对一切，因为只有当我这样做的时候，球员才可能开始行动——球员并不会主动解决问题。

So from that perspective it's kind of I have to make sure that I have to take that explorer mentality with me wherever I go because only when I do that as a coach can a player start doing the players don't do that, the players don't solve problems.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

迈克，你这样讲，让我更容易理解回到

Like how you're talking about it Mike, makes it easier to understand going back to

我讲完了，拉里，我得写下来，我得把这玩意儿表达出来。

I'm done Larry, I have to write, I have to express that shit.

嗯，这跟我也很契合。

Well, it fits with me too.

所以，但这里有很多关于什么激励教练的讨论。

So, but a lot of talk here about, well one thing is what motivates coaches.

我认为这极其重要。

And I think that's extremely important.

关于这一点的讨论太少了。

There's not enough talk about that.

然后能够对这些进行分类并理解人们，对吧？

And then just being able to categorize that and understand people, right?

比如他们来自哪里，就像你说的，站在他们的角度去理解他们。

Like where they're coming from and like you said, meeting them where they're at.

这一点非常重要，我们花了很多时间，也应当思考如何根据球员的实际情况来与他们沟通。

So important and we spend so much time as we should think about how to meet our players where they're at.

但我听到的还有，我们能否也根据教练们的实际情况来与他们沟通，并带领他们一起前进？

But what I hear is also can we meet our coaches where they're at and bring them along.

这是我从这次讨论中提炼出的一个重要观点。

It's a big message that I'm pulling from this.

所以，说了这么多，如果教练能够把这些内容整合起来，也许他们是有远见的教练，或者正在做你提到的这些不同事情，迈克，这对我们可以如何对待球员意味着什么？

So with all that being said, if the coach is able to kinda put this all together and maybe they're a visionary coach or they're doing these different things you're talking about, Mike, what does this mean for what we can do with players?

比如，我们是否应该对球员做更多？

Like, should we be doing more with players?

我们是否应该看到球员在更多方面成长，而不仅仅是现在所做的这些？

Should we be seeing our players growing in more ways than what we're doing now?

我们是不是过于专注于技术，以至于没有充分发挥他们的潜力？

Are we just so technique focused that, you know, we're not getting the most out of them?

总的来说，你认为我们是进步了，还是需要做某些方面的改进？

Like, where do you see in general, have we improved or do we need to do certain things?

就像我之前说的，我认为我们正站在某些变革的边缘，因为我想起我十五年前创建的儿童项目，叫作‘进化’，它一直叫这个名字，之所以叫进化，是因为与儿童互动的核心理念就是进化。

Like I said before I think we're in the precipice of some of it because I think look my kids program that I created like fifteen years ago it's called Evolution and it's always been called, the reason it was called evolution was because that was the whole concept of working with kids.

我们该如何根据环境变化来调整自己呢？

How do we build, know, how do you change based on environments?

现在突然间大家都在谈论约束性方法，但‘进化’项目从一开始就是基于约束性方法，或者至少包含了生态动力学的这一部分——差异性学习，所有这些因素都被融入了项目中，因为对我来说，这是保持孩子参与度的唯一方式，而这正是我一直在寻找的。

So now all of a sudden everyone's talking about constraints that approach, but evolution was always based on constraints that approach or not necessarily ecological dynamics but like at least that component of it differential learning, all of those sorts of things that were factored into the program because for me it was the only way to keep kids engaged and that's what I was searching for.

所以我认为，从教练的角度来看，归根结底，如果你刚入行，缺乏自信，你肯定希望有人给你明确的答案来建立这份自信，对吧？

So I think in coaching at the end of the day if you want to come out as a day one coach and you're not confident, want answers to give you that confidence right?

这就是为什么我说，你可能想要轨道，但你更需要的是一座桥。

That's why I said you want, you may even want the train tracks but you probably certainly want the bridge.

从这里到那里，这就是我所做的。

To get from here to here this is what I do.

我经常用桥梁的比喻，因为当你管理他人时，你必须先明确起点，再确定终点，然后决定这座桥该有多宽，以及桥的两侧在哪里才能提供安全保障。

And I use the bridge analogy quite a lot because I think when you're managing people you have to decide, you understand this to start, the destination is, how wide do you make the bridge and where are the points of security as in the sides of the bridge.

但当你刚开始当教练时，你可能只想沿着路中间的虚线走，因为这样简单，你以为这样能最快从A点到达B点。

But when you're starting as a coach you might just want to follow the dotted line down the middle of the road because it's simple and you think it's gonna get in quickest from A to B.