丽莎·库卓再次回归

你演得真好，每个人在这里都觉得你演得入木三分。

Well, you play it, and everyone here is you play it so brilliantly close to the bone.

对我来说，那个作家角色保莉·G很突出。

And for me, anyway, there was the character of the writer, Paulie G

嗯。

Mhmm.

他真是特别刻薄。

Who is just so mean.

那个演员演得实在太棒了。

And that actor did such a great job.

天啊，她曾经。

Man, she ever.

是的。

Yeah.

第一季里，他把那种我认识的作家演得特别到位。

In season one, he was so good at being a type of writer I know.

对。

Right.

这让我感到，你知道的，完全不支持你，反而不断消磨你的自信，充满愤怒，还把他的诸多个人问题带入这种情境中，因为我不确定。

It made me but, you know, not supporting you at all, you know, making just wearing away your confidence and so much anger and bringing so many of his own issues to that situation that because I don't know.

我曾经身处那个世界。

I've been in that world.

那很难受。

It was hard.

就像我跟你说过的，我一度真想跟他打一架。

It was hard just like I I I told you I wanted to, like, fight him at one point.

我说我不想见他，因为我怕我会揍他，是的。

I said I said I don't wanna meet him because I think I wanna hit him Yeah.

用一根两乘四的木板。

With a two by four.

对。

Right.

还有，哦，是的。

And Oh, yeah.

兰斯这人。

Lance is guy.

他是个很棒的人，也是个出色的演员，但他真该挨顿打，因为

He's a lovely guy and a terrific actor, but he needs a beating because

但听我说。

But listen.

我的意思是，我们第一季有个编剧室。

I mean, because we had a writer's room the first season.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们每个人都认识那种人。

And every one of them knew that guy.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们并不是在虚构他。

So we weren't making him up.

关键是，对我来说，很明显这个人以为自己的事业前景一片大好。

And the thing is is that, to me, it was really obvious that this guy thought he was having a promising career.

你知道的。

You know?

我们听说他曾是《辛普森一家》的编剧。

We hear that he was a Simpsons writer.

他拿过艾美奖。

He won an Emmy.

你知道，现在他有了自己的剧集，但电视台却告诉他：不行。

You know, and now he has this show, and then the network tells him, no.

必须改成这样。

It has to be this.

哦，顺便说一句，为了保险起见，还有一档配套的真人秀。

Oh, and by the way, just to hedge our bets, there's a companion reality show.

是的

Yeah.

而且这确实会让人愤怒

And and and it's that would be enraging

对

Yes.

对任何剧集主管来说都是如此

To any showrunner.

对

Yes.

而且他特别像个混蛋

And he is particularly asshole ish.

对吧？

Right?

而且他对她有各种各样的感受。

And he has whatever feelings he has about her.

因为她很烦人。

Because she is annoying.

她有点

She is sort of

对。

Right.

虚伪，那你怎么办？

Phony, and what do you do with that?

就闭嘴吧。

And just shut up.

是的。

Yep.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

顺便说一下，我已经自言自语了整整五分钟了。

And I've been that's been a solid five minutes of me monologuing, by the way.

但对我来说，他生什么气非常明显。

But to me, it was really obvious, like, what he's pissed off about.

是的。

Yes.

而且

And

好的。

okay.

不。

No.

不。

No.

这很公平。

That's fair.

我只是觉得有

I just there's a

有，而且他在惩罚她。

there's a And he's punishing her.

是的。

Yes.

但她看起来被惩罚了吗？

But did she seem punished?

嗯，她

Well, she's

索娜说没有。

Sona says no.

没有。

No.

她几乎是完全无忧无虑的

She's she's, like, blissfully almost

我不觉得是无忧无虑。

I wouldn't say blissfully.

好吧。

Would Okay.

瓦莱丽·谢里什其实是勇敢地一无所知。

Say Valerie Valerie Cherish is Valiantly unaware.

是的。

Yes.

勇敢地一无所知。

Valiantly unaware.

但我觉得她之所以这样，部分原因是因为她并非完全无知。

But, also, I think one of the reasons she's that way is she's not completely oblivious.

她说得对。

She's Right.

她知道在这个行业里，她岌岌可危。

She knows that she's hanging by a thread in this business.

她明白这一点，而你把这种极度乐观的表现演绎得如此到位，那种刻意的乐观，是的。

She knows that and and you play it so well, excruciatingly optimistic in a way that's so forced Yes.

因为你清楚，并非一切都会如你所愿，而你却如此渴望。

Because you know that this isn't all going your way, and you're so thirsty.

你真的很想赢得那个艾美奖。

You really wanna win that Emmy.

你真的非常想要，而让我惊叹的是，这种状态真的在现实中真实地体现出来了。

You really want and what's amazing to me is that it really does capture something you see out here.

是的。

Yeah.

你经常在这里看到那种‘四大微笑’。

You see it out here all the time is the big four smile.

我没法告诉你，我经过多少次广告牌，看到那些灿烂的笑脸，是的。

I can't tell you how many times I pass a billboard, and I see a big smiling face Yeah.

一个说着一切都很好的人。

Of someone who's saying, it's all great.

对。

Right.

我知道那个人其实很痛苦。

And I know that person's miserable.

我知道他们确实如此。

I I know they are.

我见过他们。

I've met them.

你知道吧？

I know you know?

我到处都能看到那些表情，因为太多人内心并不快乐。

And I see those faces all over the place because so many people aren't happy in themselves.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

是的。

Yes.

于是笑容变得更大了。

And and so the smile gets bigger.

这就是你经常看到的。

And it that's what you see a lot of.

我认为，瓦莱丽·谢丽什这个角色，据我看来，最能体现现实中存在的一种状态。

And I think Valerie Cherish is, like, the best character, in my opinion, that captures something that exists out here.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我对她确实很有同理心，但我认为她并不是彼得·塞勒斯饰演的克鲁索。

And I do have a lot of empathy for but I also think she's not Peter Sellers as Clouseau.

她并不是一个 oblivious 的人。

She's not someone who's oblivious.

不是。

No.

事情就像火灾一样，你知道的，她很清楚，哦，那边是狗仔队。

Things are fires are you know, she knows that, oh, here's the paparazzi.

他们不是在拍她。

They're not shooting her.

他们是在拍她以前共事过的人。

They're shooting someone she used to work with.

她正试图靠近她。

She's trying to get to her.

他们踩到了她的脚。

They're stepping on her feet.

她知道事情并不顺利，但她仍在努力穿过人群。

She knows that it's not going her way, and she's pushing herself through the crowd.

是的。

Yeah.

我刚意识到，我可能真的挺刻薄的，因为这让我笑了。

I just realized I just might be really mean because that just made me laugh.

嗯，这挺搞笑的。

Well, it's funny.

不。

No.

是的，挺搞笑的。

It is.

对她来说很糟糕。

Bad for her.

我的意思是，对她来说很糟糕。

I mean Bad for her.

她

She

她觉得这

thinks it

是，但其实并没有。

is, but it hasn't.

就像，是的。

Like, yeah.

我不觉得。

I don't.

但这就是，我不知道。

But it's this it's a I don't know.

这其实挺有趣的。

It's a really To fun

我，她做的那些，我觉得没问题。

me, she's what she's doing is like, that's okay.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她的座右铭就是

Like, that's her mantra is

没关系。

It's okay.

没关系。

It's okay.

没关系。

It's okay.

这就是所需要的。

That's what it takes.

你知道的。

You know?

反正也不重要。

Like, it doesn't matter.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，因为一开始我只是在取笑她。

And then because first, I was just making fun of her.

对我来说，第一季确实我很刻薄。

Season one to me, yes, I am mean.

我当时在取笑这件事。

And I was making fun of that.

结束后，我有个朋友，她很聪明，这位女士。

And after we were done, I had a friend, and she's smart, this woman.

她叫马雷吉。

Her name's Marej.

她真的很棒。

She's really great.

她说：不，不是这样的。

And she was saying, oh, but no.

她是爱尔兰人。

And she's Irish.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

也许你认识她。

Maybe you know her.

当然。

Of course.

对。

Yeah.

我在会议上见过她。

I see I see her at the meetings.

社区？

The community?

有一次我们同时伸手去拿碗里的同一个土豆。

Once we reach for the same potato at the bowl.

对。

Yeah.

天啊。

Oh my god.

经常发生。

Happens.

是的。

Yeah.

你的意思是‘是的’。

You mean yeah.

所以那里就有一碗土豆。

So just a bowl of taters there.

为这个争抢。

Fight over this.

发生过争抢。

There was a fight.

但她说了，不。

But she said, no.

她是不是很棒？

Isn't she wonderful?

她就是你知道的，她特别坚韧，打不倒她。

She's just you know, she's so you can't keep her down.

不是。

No.

你懂的？

You know?

没有人比她更有韧性了。

There's no one more resilient.

不是。

No.

她很棒。

She's wonderful.

她是我见过的最强的人。

She's the strongest person I think I've ever seen.

我只是突然想到，是的。

And I just went, And then realized, yeah.

因为我不觉得难过

Because I don't feel bad

对。

Right.

扮演她的时候。

Playing her.

对。

Right.

我扮演她的时候并不觉得被击垮，没错。

I don't feel decimated Yep.

当我扮演她的时候

When I'm playing her

没错。

Yep.

因为我正在拒绝这种拒绝或侮辱，并将其转化为她需要、我也需要的东西。

Because I am rejecting the rejection or the insult and turning it into something that she needs, that I need.

嗯，她从来不说不。

Well, she doesn't say no ever.

对。

Right.

她说，如果他们说，好吧。

She says, if they say, okay.

现在你得知道，这部分是我编的。

Now you've gotta you know, for this I'm making this up.

但如果在新一季中，他们说，好吧。

But if in the new season, they said, okay.

为了推广下一个项目，我们要让你全身贴满胶带，给你戴上兔子耳朵，然后你得沿着好莱坞大道蹦着走。

To promote this next project, we're gonna you you need to be covered in duct tape, and we're gonna put bunny ears on you, and you have to hop down Hollywood Boulevard.

你会说，好吧。

You'd be like, alright.

好吧。

Well, okay.

你知道的。

You know?

我的意思是，你能做到的。

I mean, you can do it.

我们就是这么做的。

This is what we're doing.

我想现在孩子们就想看这个。

I guess this is what the kids wanna see now.

我不明白。

I don't get it.

对。

Right.

但你会在120度的高温下照做。

But you would do it in a 120 degree heat.

是的。

Yeah.

而且可能会中暑晕倒，但她无所畏惧。

And probably pass out, but she is intrepid.

她很勇敢。

She's brave.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

而且就是我我

And just I I

她想要她想要的东西。

She wants what she wants.

至于你是否认为这是个值得追求的目标，那就是另一回事了。

And whether you think that's a worthwhile goal is another issue.

但没错，她从不放弃，我想我们正是喜欢她这一点。

But, yeah, she doesn't give up, and there's something I guess we like that.

所以这里有一件事是

So here's here's something about

这个。

that.

我不知道。

I don't know.

突然间，琳西·冯的形象浮现在我脑海中。

All of a sudden, like, Lindsey Vonn flashed in my head.

你知道的？

You know?

每个人都喜欢一个逆袭的故事。

Like, everyone likes a come no.

但我一直在想，她为什么要做这件事？

But because I was thinking, why is she doing this?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后，嗯，每个人都喜欢逆袭，每个人都喜欢是的。

And then, like, oh, everyone likes a comeback, and everyone likes Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我就想到这儿了，呃。

That's where I went, ugh.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这看起来很危险。

It seems dangerous.

然后

And then

这事儿就发生在上周末。

This just happened over the weekend.

我不知道这个消息什么时候发布，但林赛·沃恩摔倒了，我觉得她腿骨折了。

I don't know when this comes out, but Lindsey Vonn crashed, and I think she fractured her leg.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

但事实上，你知道，她敢于做出这样的尝试，真的很勇敢。

But there is the reality to, you know, she was really brave to make that attempt.

但你说得对。

But you're right.

确实，这种情况成功的几率非常小。

There's a high level of there's a slim chance this will work out.

对。

Right.

但正是这些不利的几率，才让回归如此不可思议。

But that's what makes a comeback so incredible are the odds against it.

如果你不保持乐观和充满希望，就不可能有回归或做到这一点。

And you can't have a comeback or do that if you're not just being optimistic and hopeful.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在面对眼前一切不利现实的情况下，依然保持希望。

Hopeful against all odds against, like, what's, like, presented right in front of your face.

对。

Right.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但，是的，我不知道。

But, yeah, I don't know.

我们每十年做一次。

We do this every ten years.

是的。

Yes.

这正是我想谈的事情。

This is what I wanted to talk about.

你知道吗？

You know?

不知道。

No.

但关键是这个。

But this is the thing.

这就是我所喜爱的。

This is what I love.

这个节目最独特的地方是，我觉得第一季是2004年还是2005年？

What's you so unique about this show is I think the first one is 2004 or '5?

2004年。

'4.

然后2005年播出。

And Came out five.

是的。

Yeah.

你当时有点儿——我是说，我觉得这比《与卡戴珊姐妹同行》早了两年左右。

And you were kind of I mean, it's I think it's two years or something before Keeping Up With The Kardashians.

就像，这确实是。

It's like, this is Yeah.

你当时是在讽刺一种尚未真正成形的东西，我认为。

You were doing a satire of something that hadn't, I don't think, really formed yet.

对。

Right.

然后你十年后又回来了。

Then you come back ten years later.

而现在，谁会评论那个时刻呢？我想很少有人会有耐心或胆量说，这种东西每十年才出现一次。

And now which then commented on that moment, and I think few people would have the patience or the nerve to say, these come out once every ten years.

是的。

Yeah.

但这真的很酷，因为我连第三季的一秒都没看过，但你能时隔十年后再重新切入，这非常罕见。

But it's really cool because now I have not seen a second of of the third season, but the idea that you can now drop in again a decade later, it's very unusual.

是啊，不是吗？

It is, isn't it?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但我真的很庆幸第一季没被选中，因为这样它才能真正探讨一些东西。

But I'm so it's so great that we didn't get picked up that first season because it gets to be about something.

对。

Right.

当你发现它没有被续订时，你感到惊讶吗？

Were you surprised when it didn't get picked up?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我感到很惊讶。

Was surprised.

是的。

Yeah.

我

I

你为什么感到惊讶？

why were you surprised?

只是因为这部作品真的很好。

Just because it was really good.

谢谢。

Thanks.

而且你会想，这次肯定会被选中了。

And you think, well, this will now get picked up.

是的。

Yeah.

当然，我以前也错过过这些事情。

Of course, I've been wrong about these things before.

对。

Yeah.

我也有过自己的经历。

I've had my own experiences.

但等等。

But but Wait.

你什么意思？

What do you mean?

我不知道。

I don't know.

但我觉得你一直过得太顺了。

But I but I think You've only had an easy time.

你说得对。

You're right.

好吧。

Okay.

就你和你的特权。

Just You and your privilege.

我知道。

I know.

一路顺风，从没遇到过任何挫折。

Never a bump in never a bump in the road.

我们现在生活的这个世界很棒的一点是，以前的剧集经常会彻底消失。

What's nice about the world we live in now is shows used to go away all the time.

是的。

Yeah.

但现在出现了一个新世界，剧集即使没被续订，也不会消失，反而能逐渐积累观众。

But now there's this world where shows can not get picked up, but they they don't go away, and then you can have this audience build.

而且如果你制作了这样的剧集——我的意思是，我见过很多例子，比如《Party Down》，我觉得它当初没得到多少关注，但你过几年再回头看，它几乎就像《火线》一样。

And people who and if you make I mean, I've seen it with so many, like, party downs, an example of a show that I don't think was getting a lot of attention, but you can check-in on it years and years later, and it's almost like The Wire.

你知道，有些喜剧剧集，当时你没看，也没支持。

The you know, there are these comedy shows that, okay, didn't see it, didn't support it.

但你过很久再回头去看。

You check-in much later on.

我以前不知道《Party Down》，但当你看了之后，你会觉得，哇，他们真像打造了一块精密的瑞士手表。

I wasn't aware of Party Down, and then you you see it and you go, oh, they've really they've made a nice little Swiss watch here.

是的。

Yeah.

现在看它，和我刚播出那天看时一样精彩。

And it's just as good now as it would have been if I had tuned in the day it came out.

《Comeback》确实也有这种感觉。

And, definitely, The Comeback had that

是的。

Yeah.

它一直在慢慢积累人气。

Where it was building and building.

你可能在超市里也遇到过很多这样的人。

And you probably experienced a lot of people when you're out at the supermarket.

哦，没错。

Oh, yeah.

去获得

To get

你的超市里全是《Comeback》的粉丝。

The your supermarket is where all the fans of The Comeback are.

他们确实是。

They are.

他们确实是。

They are.

他们就在那儿。

They're there.

你正在蔬果区，心里想着，那些瓜怎么样？

You're there in the produce lane, and you're there like, what about those melons?

然后你心想，我不知道。

And you're like, I don't know.

嘿。

Hey.

《回归》。

The Comeback.

但我经常去很多超市。

But I go to a lot of supermarkets.

但你一定有过这样的经历，听到人们在谈论。

But you must have had that experience where you're hearing from people.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Love that.

所以你并不是从制作或播出节目的人那里听到这些的。

And so you didn't hear that necessarily from the, you know, the people that made the show or broadcast the show.

对。

Right.

但你知道，我听到了太多人的声音。

But you knew I'm hearing from way too many people.

嗯，即使在我们播出的时候，我们也听说大卫·鲍伊联系了HBO，因为他要巡演。

Well, even when it was when we were on, we heard David Bowie got in touch with HBO because he was gonna be on tour.

他不想错过任何事。

He didn't wanna miss anything.

所以给他发个‘哇’。

So send him Wow.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我可没有2005张DVD之类的。

I don't 2,005 DVDs or whatever it is.

你看。

Look.

我在看呢。

I'm looking.

呃，我不确定。

Like, I don't know.

我们记不清了。

We don't remember.

你知道的？

You know?

然后你就发现大卫·鲍伊还想要其他节目。

Then you find out the other shows David Bowie wanted.

不。

No.

他当时说，我没看最新的《恐惧因素》。

He was I didn't get the latest fear factor Yeah.

就是那种吃屎的节目。

Where they eat shit.

能把那个给我一下吗？

Can have that one, please?

你就像说，大卫。

You're like, David.

但后来我们觉得，哦，好吧。

But to and then we felt like, oh, okay.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

HBO。

HBO.

他们可能只需要听到这些就够了。

That's all they need to hear probably.

而且你知道，我们当时收到了很多差评，因为人们不明白他们看到的是什么。

And, you know, we had a lot of bad reviews because people didn't understand what they were seeing.

对。

Right.

到了一半左右的时候，出现了修订后的评论，像是撤回和重新评价，这

And then by the time halfway through, there were revised reviews, like retractions and and Which is

相当罕见。

pretty which is pretty rare.

发生了。

Happened.

是的。

Yeah.

确实很少见。

Pretty rare.

所以我们的收视率也表现得很好，甚至比《欲望都市》第一季刚播出那年还要好，结果还不错。

So we've and also our ratings, we were doing as well, if not better, than Entourage when its first season was just the year before and went, alright.

太棒了。

So great.

还有谁的剧集是你一开始看不懂、完全不理解，但后来慢慢了解并爱上它的，然后发现它真的很棒。

And where who else has shows that you don't you've not seen this before, you don't really understand, and then you get to know what it is and embrace it, and it's great.

HBO，但他们一直告诉我们，是的。

HBO, except they kept telling us, yeah.

我们不再是HBO了。

We're not HBO's not HBO anymore.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

这真的得说，我不知道。

It's really gotta I don't know.

我们走着瞧吧。

We'll see.

我不知道。

I don't know.

后来我才在几年后得知，HBO里有个人，我不确定是否见过他，他负责这件事，就是说我们不会接手这个项目。

And then it turns out, I only found out a couple years ago, there was one guy at HBO that I don't know if I ever even met him in charge who was just like, we're not gonna pick that up.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不过我得说，没错，我们没被选中确实是个意外，但我并不觉得难过。

So well but I have to say, yes, it was a surprise that we didn't get picked up, but I didn't feel bad.

对。

Right.

我真的很震惊，我居然不觉得难过，因为我想，你看。

I and I was in shock that I didn't feel bad because I thought, well, look.

这已经是我能做到的最好了，我觉得我们已经把它做到了极致。

This is about the best I can do, and I think we did it about the best that it could be done.

所以我没什么好难过的。

So I've got nothing to feel bad about.

这不是我的错。

It's not my mistake.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我不知道。

So I don't know.

我并不觉得难过。

I didn't feel bad.

嗯，那我很高兴。

Well, that's I'm glad.

对。

Yeah.

但你本该有点内疚的。

But you should have felt a little bad.

哦。

Oh.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

我只是感到抱歉。

I'm just sorry.

我后来感到内疚了。

I felt bad later

对。

Yeah.

只要你曾经感到过内疚就行。

When I As long as you felt bad at some point.

没有。

No.

我有。

I did.

很好。

Good.

很好。

Good.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

别担心。

Don't worry.

很好。

Good.

哦，我感觉很难受。

Oh, I felt bad.

不。

No.

不。

No.

像是五脏六腑都揪在一起。

Like, gut wrenching.

它只是

It just

愈合了。

healed.

就像我内心的一个洞

Like, a a hole in my

在你的灵魂里。

In your soul.

在里面。

Inside.

在

In

我的灵魂里。

my soul.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Good.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我的灵魂已经

And my soul's

为了出色的工作。

for good work.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

哦，我没事。

Oh, I okay.

是的。

Yeah.

总有一天你会拥有的，索诺。

You'll you'll have it one day, Sono.

为什么会这样？

Why did it?

不是。

Wasn't.

但我呢？

But Will I?

但关键是。

But here's the thing.

并不是因为节目被取消了。

It wasn't because it was canceled.

而是因为别人，比尔·马赫在谈论一些笑话，这些笑话因为一个段子就出了名。

It was because someone else it was Bill Maher talking about something and jokes that don't land because of, like, one joke, and it was famous.

我不记得有人嘲笑过边缘化群体，或者说是受害者，而他却说：看。

I don't remember someone making fun of someone who's marginalized or, you know, like, a victim or and he was saying, look.

你想嘲笑白人男性吗？

You wanna make fun of white men?

你可以随便嘲笑白人男性。

You can make fun of white men all you want.

明白吗？

Okay?

因为他们掌握着权力。

Because they've got the power.

是的

Yep.

但不要嘲笑那个人或那件事。

But don't make fun of that person or that thing.

我当时想，女性仍然不能以那种方式被嘲笑。

And I went, women are still you know, you can't make fun of women in that way.

就是不能。

Like, you can't.

哦，不行。

Oh, no.

她们太容易被认作受害者了，我当时想，不是这样的。

They're just it's too they're too easily recognized as victims if they're and I went, no.

我从来没想过

I never thought of

我以前没这么想过。

it that way.

傻瓜。

Idiot.

不。

No.

我的意思是，我之所以这么说，是因为有那么多出色的喜剧。

I mean, I I because so much great comedy.

我的意思是，是的。

I mean Yeah.

女性确实会。

Women do.

比如《海豹球》，你知道的，蒂娜·菲，还有那么多优秀的女性喜剧演员，她们以女性身份自嘲，非常精彩。

Seal Ball, you know, Tina Fey, so many great on and on and on have made fun of themselves as women, and it's brilliant.

你知道吗？

You know?

是的。

Yes.

但这次不一样。

But this wasn't the same.

这简直就是男人对她的欺凌，我觉得不行。

This was, like, a man being cruel to her, and I thought, no.

这是一个编剧

It's a writer

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的，给女演员制造麻烦。

You know, have giving a hard time to an actress.

为什么在恐怖片里这会让人如此震惊？

Like, like, why is that a big shock in horror?

我的意思是，这不就是演员，尤其是女演员一直以来所忍受的吗？

I mean, that's one what do you think what do you think actors and especially actresses have put up with forever?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的吧？

You know?

而且还没有。

And haven't.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

不。

No.

总之。

Anyway.

所以不行。

So no.

但你让我改观了。

But you proved me wrong.

是的

Yeah.

我收回刚才的话。

I take it back.

我再也不会说了。

I'll never say it again.

我明白了。

I get it.

不。

No.

我明白了。

I get it.

我明白她什么意思。

I get what she's saying.

你对这个问题有什么看法，索娜？

What do you what do you give us your input here, Sona.

我只是觉得，这其实是她之所以如此顺从、默默接受的原因之一，因为她已经习惯了。

I just think I actually think it's part of the reason why she was so just kinda like, okay, just taking it, is because she's used used to it.

我的意思是，这一直都是这样。

I mean, that's how it's always been for.

对。

Right.

这不会改变。

It's not gonna change.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你得明确一下界限在哪里。

So you've gotta like, here's here are the boundaries.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你只能在这些界限内，或围绕它们行事。

And so you just work within them, around them.

你明白吗？

You know?

就这么简单。

That's all.

是的。

Yep.

而且，你看。

And, I mean, look.

我不确定是不是因为我从未觉得，哦，我是女人，所以我就不能怎么样。

I I don't know if it's because I've I don't know if it's I never felt like, oh, I'm a woman, and so, you know, I don't get to.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我的意思是，在某种程度上，是的。

I mean, on some level, yes.

尤其是这一点，我根本没想到。

Especially with this, it just didn't occur to me.

这根本不是性别特定的抱负或梦想。

It's like, this isn't gender specific ambition or hopes and dreams.

所以我根本没觉得这会是个问题。

So it didn't occur to me that it would be an issue at all.

我觉得可能是因为这是一个女性。

And I think it kinda was that it was a woman.

但是

But

当你十年后回来拍摄第二季时

Now when you come back ten years later and you do the second season

是的。

Yeah.

你有没有更确信自己真正了解这个角色了？

You did you feel more assured that I know I really know who this character is.

我知道有很多粉丝。

I know there's a lot of fans.

人们期待我们回归。

People are excited for us to return.

感觉有什么不同吗？

Did it feel different?

有点吧。

Kind of.

我的意思是，这有点让人更紧张，因为有了期待。

I mean, it's a little scarier because then there's expectations.

迈克尔·帕特里克·金和我都清楚，这是十年后了。

And and what Michael Patrick King and I knew was it's ten years later.

她大了十岁，一切都会不一样了。

She's ten years older, and it's gonna be different.

嗯。

Mhmm.

必须有所不同。

It has to be different.

而且，你知道，我觉得我们让她赢得艾美奖真是太好了，是的。

And, you know, and then I just thought it was great that we had her win the Emmy Yeah.

她对自己的表演根本无法欣赏，因为她只纠结于自己看起来有多累。

For a performance she couldn't even appreciate in herself because she was stuck on how tired she looked

是的。

Yeah.

在那个场景里。

In the scene.

我很喜欢这一点，为她感到高兴。

And and I liked I liked that a lot for her.

然后，当然，最重要的事是，她离开了你主持的艾美奖颁奖礼。

And then, of course, the huge thing is that she, you know, leaves the Emmys that you hosted.

谢谢。

Thank you.