马特·达蒙

但我们依然在这里。

And yet we're still here.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我爱你们，索娜，我爱你们，博利。

And I love you, Sona, and I love you, Borley.

嗯。

Yeah.

我爱你们，我们一起让今年变得精彩。

I love you And together, we're gonna make this year.

这是个伟大的时刻。

This is this is a great moment.

我们干吧。

Let's do it.

嗯。

Yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

2026年。

2026.

不可能更糟了。

It can't get any worse.

嗯。

Yeah.

今天我的嘉宾是一位演员，你一定看过他出演的《心灵捕手》《火星救援》和《出生身份》等电影。

My guest today is an actor you know from such films as Goodwill Hunting, The Martian, and The Born Identity.

现在你可以在Netflix新片《裂痕》中看到他。

Now you can see him in the new Netflix movie, The Rip.

我能说什么呢？

What can I say?

他是个超级巨星。

He's a superstar.

是的。

Yep.

他是一位国际超级巨星。

He's an international megastar.

他也是一个非常友善的绅士。

He also is a lovely gentleman.

马特·达蒙，欢迎你。

Matt Damon, welcome.

非常感谢你来到这里，今天我们有很多话题要聊。

Thank you so much for being here, and we have a lot to talk about today.

我只是想从一件事开始，我想我以前跟你说过，但没在麦克风前说过。

And I just I wanted to start with I think I've brought this up to you before, but not on microphone.

我们当时没有把它变现。

We didn't monetize it.

天哪。

Jesus.

那些才是值得进行的对话。

Those are the only conversations that are worthwhile.

我想卖一些广告。

I wanna sell some ads.

是

Are

你要谈新的别克吗？

you gonna talk about the new Buick?

这是什么？

What is this?

马特和我对新的别克非常兴奋。

Matt and I are very excited about the new Buick.

现代。

Hyundai.

不。

No.

我兄弟几年前带我去过一家酒吧，那时候事情还没发生，也没持续太久。

My brother took me to a bar years ago, and this was short this isn't too long.

那可能是《心灵捕手》上映后一两年的事。

It might have been a year or two after Goodwill Hunting.

是《心灵捕手》上映时，或者也许是《早安，维吉尼亚》那会儿。

It's Goodwill Hunting or, you know, maybe early born.

不是，不是，不是。

Was it was it was No.

那是在那之前。

It was before that.

那是在那之前。

It was before that.

那是在后期。

It was late.

但那确实是九十年代。

It was in the nineties though.

好的。

Okay.

是在九十年代。

Was in the nineties.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我人在城里。

And my I'm in town.

我们俩都

We're both

是不是像圣诞节晚上？

Wasn't it like Christmas night

还是什么的？

or something?

那是圣诞节晚上，我哥哥说，嘿。

It was Christmas night, and my brother said, hey.

我们可以和我们的——这是我兄弟卢克。

We could hang out with our this is my brother Luke.

我们可以和父母一起待着，或者干脆离开这儿，他们所做的，你知道的，就是创造了我们。

We could hang out with our parents, or we could blow this place and go all they did was, you know, create us.

我们可以去我知道的一个超酷的酒吧，叫B Side，B Side休息室。

We could go to this really cool cool bar I know called the b side and, the b side lounge.

我说，好啊。

And I said, yeah.

对啊。

Yeah.

去他的老年人吧。

You know, screw the elderly.

于是我们去了那里，我走进这家特别酷的场所，一个超棒的休闲酒吧，你就坐在那儿。

And so, we get we go over there, and I walk into this very cool establishment, and just like a really cool place to hang bar, and you're sitting there.

因为本和

And Because Ben and

我刚刚也经历过完全相同的对话。

I had had the exact same conversation.

咱们赶紧滚吧。

Let's get the fuck out of here.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

你们当时在逃跑。

You guys were escaping.

所以我看到你们坐在那儿，就走过去，你们简直再友好不过了。

And so I just see you sitting at the sitting there, and I go over, and you couldn't have been nicer.

我们聊了起来。

We're chatting.

我觉得我们之前可能短暂见过面，但并没有真正交谈过。

I think we had briefly met before, but not really, like, talked.

几分钟内，你我就聊起了弗兰纳里·奥康纳。

And within minutes, you and I are talking about Flannery O'Connor.

这就是我记得的。

That's what I remember.

我记得我当时想，我不知道还有多少电影明星会主动跟我聊弗兰纳里·奥康纳。

And I remember thinking, I don't know that there are many movie stars that would start talking to me about Flannery O'Connor.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

我觉得这太不可思议了，我当时想，这 guy 真是

I thought it was very I was like, this guy is

不过确实有很多人读书。

There are a lot of people who read books though.

不，没有。

No.

没多少人读。

There aren't.

没多少人读。

There aren't.

我经常测试很多电影明星。

I test a lot of movie stars.

他们大多数都不识字。

Most of them can't read.

我根本不会读书？

I Can't read at all?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

汤姆·汉克斯不会阅读。

Tom Hanks cannot read.

他会打字，但不会阅读。

He can type, but he can't read.

他会打字，但就像猴子敲打打字机一样。

He can type, but it's just he's like a monkey and a typewriter.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，我的意思是，那么多大明星都不会。

And, also, I mean, so many huge stars Can't.

你知道，连利亚姆·尼森都认不出时间。

You know, Liam Neeson can't tell time.

我会问他：嘿，利亚姆。

And I'll ask him, hey, Liam.

现在几点了？

What time is it?

他给我看他的手表，然后问：你觉得呢？

And he shows me his watch and says, what do you think?

难以置信。

Unbelievable.

你不敢回答，是因为你说话的方式。

You're scared to answer because of the way you say it.

你拥有一套特定的技能，但并不

You have a certain set of skills, but not

告诉你，并不是所有技能你都具备。

telling You don't have all the skills.

你

You're

顺便说一下，本和我曾经在八十年代一部叫《好母亲》的电影里当群演，那部电影的主角是连恩·尼森，当时我们还在上高中，我觉得这部电影至今仍然存在。

lashing By by the way, Ben and I were extras in a movie called The Good Mother that Liam Neeson was the star of in the eighties, and we were still in high school, and I think it still exists in the movie.

他们当时在哈佛广场拍摄，我们就去当了群演，走过连恩·尼森身边。

They were shooting in Harvard Square, and we went and we were extras, and we walked by Liam Nielsen.

哇。

Wow.

那会儿我们还是青少年，本和马特从一个非常年轻的连恩身边走过。

A very like an adolescent or teenage, you know, Ben and Matt walked by a very young Liam.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Yeah.

那就是我离他最近的一次了，不过，是的，我一直是他的铁粉。

That was that was as close as I ever got to him, but, yeah, I'm a big fan.

你刚才说的话让我想起，你们在成名之前就已经是好朋友了，当时你们一起工作，共同致力于在这行闯出名堂。

What you just said reminds me that you guys, you know, were good friends long before you became famous, and you were working together and kind of on a mission to make it in this business.

我记得以前看过，说你们曾经合开过一个银行账户。

And you had a I I've read before that you had a bank account together.

一个贝班克斯账户。

A Baybanks account.

还记得贝班克斯吗？

Remember Baybanks?

了

Of

当然记得。

course, I do.

所以我们当时有

So we had

一个共同的贝班克斯账户，把我们赚到的收入都存进去。

a shared Baybanks account that we would put money in that we had made professionally.

所以如果我们接到任何额外的工作，比如，如果是工会的活儿，你会拿到50美元或100美元，取决于是不是工会的活儿，能拿到100美元。

So if we got any part, like that extra work, for instance, you get $50 or a $100 depending if it was a union job, you get a 100.

这笔钱会存进我们的共同账户，而这个账户只能用于去纽约试镜——我们会坐巴士去那里，那时候还没有泛美航空的穿梭机之类的，得一路赶到纽约，走进去，花上好几个小时，大概五个小时才能到。

And that money would go into our shared account, and that account we could only use for auditions in New York, where we'd take the bus or back there, they didn't have the Pan Am shuttle or whatever, the Get down to New York, walk in, which took however long, five hours to get down there.

你走进曼哈顿中城的某个地方，三分钟内，他们就会说：‘好了，谢谢。’

You walk into the place somewhere in Midtown, and in three minutes, they're like, Okay, thanks.

我们以前管这叫‘得到一句谢谢’，因为你去那儿拼命表现，捶胸顿足、痛哭流涕，他们却只说一句：‘好了。’

We used to call it getting okay thanks, because you you go there and beat your chest and pull your hair out and sob, and they go, okay.

谢谢。

Thanks.

然后你就结束了。

And and you're done.

接着你又得一路赶回波士顿。

And then you go all the way back to Boston.

但我们有这个账户。

But but we had this account.

我们可以用这笔钱做这件事，或者用它在麻省大道的‘1001’街机厅玩电子游戏。

We could use the money for that, or we could use the money for video games at one thousand and one, which was the arcade on Mass Ave.

没错。

Yep.

没错。

Yep.

或者，当你长大一点，如果我们能找到人愿意请我们喝啤酒的话。

Or, you know, when we got older, if we could find anyone to buy us beer.

所以这些就是这笔钱的三种用途。

So those were the three uses

用于这个账户。

for the account.

但你真是个很负责任的年轻人。

But the account You were very responsible young man.

但你知道，说到意图，这个账户的密码是‘River P’，因为雷弗·菲尼克斯是我们非常钦佩的一位演员。

But the, know, talk about, like, intentionality, the account the the code to the account was River P because River Phoenix was an actor that we really admired.

他和我们年纪相仿，而且演的正是我们想演的角色。

He was our age, and he was getting the kind of parts that we wanted to play.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以这是我们进入共同银行账户的暗号。

And so that was our secret code to get into our shared bank account.

酷。

Cool.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

我不确定你怎么样，但我经常怀旧，想起在没人认识我之前的那些早期经历。

I don't know about you, but I think about a lot, and I have wistfully about early experiences before anybody knows who I am.

你知道吗，我正要去试镜，有人就说：‘你应该化个妆，可能要拍试镜镜头。’

You know, I'm I'm headed to something to audition, and someone says, well, you should have makeup, cause it might be a camera test.

于是我去了药店，在专柜买了化妆品。

And so I went to a drugstore and purchased makeup at a counter.

那位女士问：‘那你到底想做什么？’

And the woman said, well, what is it you're trying to do?

我说：‘他们说我要化妆。’

And I said, they said I need makeup.

然后我坐在车里，这发生在洛杉矶。

And then sitting in my this is out here in LA.

我坐在那辆1977年破旧的五十铃Opal里，用后视镜自己化妆，然后进去演得一团糟。

Sitting in my 1977 beat up Isuzu Opal and putting it on myself with a rearview mirror and then going in and being terrible.

但她告诉你用口红和腮红了吗？

But she told you lipstick and blush?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他们说那个歌舞伎演员太糟糕了。

They were like, that kabuki guy was awful.

你看过狄薇因吗？

Did you see divine?

你看起来像《莫罗博士岛》里的马龙·白兰度。

You look like Marlon Brando in the island of doctor Moreau.

那个孩子怎么了？

What is up with that kid?

嗯。

Yeah.

那是个塔可广告。

It was a taco commercial.

他为什么那样做？为什么？但我总是会想这些事，还挺有趣的。

Why why was he doing why was he but I think about those things all the time, and I kind of it's funny.

我对那个毛头小子有种好感。

I have an affection for that whippersnapper.

而且我不知道你和本是不是也有过很多当群演的回忆。

And and I don't know if you I mean, you and and Ben must have so many memories of being an extra.

嗯。

Yeah.

他们告诉你得嚼得慢一点之类的。

And they're telling you chew more slowly or whatever.

你根本没有台词。

You're you don't have no lines.

离餐饮区远点。

Get the fuck away from the craft service.

嗯。

Yeah.

走开。

Get away.

那不是群演。

That's not extras.

这工作可能很丢人。

It can be demeaning work.

但我们对它很感兴趣，我们喜欢在片场的感觉，当时我们非常兴奋能在那里。

But we were interested in it, we loved being on sets, and it was like we were thrilled to be there.

是啊，那会儿刚入行的时候，我觉得，你知道，我侄子是个演员。

Yeah, it was a lot of I mean, you know, starting out in the business is I think it's I think, you know, my nephew's an actor.

现在情况不同了，因为他们现在可以自己录视频了。

It's different now in the sense that they're allowed to put themselves on tape now.

你知道，以前试镜得按时到场，走进房间，只有一次机会，完了就完了。

You know, it was a different auditioning was like, you had to go, show up at the appointed time, you walked into the room, and you had one shot at it, and that was it.

而现在，你知道，年轻演员，或者说所有演员，都可以自己录像并反复打磨。

And and now, you know, the younger actors are allowed to kind of or all actors are allowed to video themselves and work on it

直到被精选出来。

until get curated.

让自己呈现最好的一面来争取这个角色，这完全是另一回事。

Get it to say, this is the best representation of me for this part, which is a very different thing.

刚入行时会经历很多羞辱，你知道，就像那些事情。

And there's a lot of humiliation in the starting out, as you know, like those things.

我现在一直感到羞辱。

I'm continually humiliated now.

嗯，有很多。

Well, there's a lot

羞辱。

of humiliation.

总的来说，做这件事非常脆弱，你知道的。

In general, it's a very, hey, it's a very vulnerable thing to do.

你知道吗？

You know?

我早早就意识到自己被羞辱了，然后我反而有点喜欢上了。

I discovered early on as being humiliated, and then I kinda liked it.

不，不是的。

Well, no, no.

三十年前，我和科波拉一起拍了《造雨人》，他每天早上都会做一件了不起的事。

I did The Rainmaker with Coppola, like, thirty years ago, he did this amazing thing every morning.

你知道吗，每当有新演员来的时候，他都会去基地营地，那里是大家早上准备的地方，在停车场，就在那些房车附近，他会把所有演员召集起来，玩一些戏剧游戏。

You know, when a new actor would come, he would he would go down to the base camp where where everybody gets ready in the morning, and in the parking lot, like right in the you know, where all the kinda trailers are, he would gather all of the actors, and he would play theater games.

对吧？

Right?

比如，抛球游戏。

Like, ball, for instance.

声音球是一种在表演学校常玩的游戏，我会把球扔给你，同时发出声音，比如‘bloop’之类的，而这个球显然是无形的。

And sound ball is this game you play in kinda acting school where I throw a ball to you, and I have to make a noise, like bloop or whatever, and when you and and it's an invisible ball, obviously.

这不是一个真正的球。

It's not a real ball.

它就是

It's it's

是那种太空球。

it's that A space ball.

这是一个空气球。

It's an air ball.

你接住球后，必须发出我刚才的声音，比如‘bloop’，然后你还要创造一个新的声音，‘bloop’，再把球扔给另一个人。

And you catch it, and you have to make my sound, bloop, and then you have to make a new sound, bloop, and you throw it to someone else.

这可能是世界上最蠢的事情了，但弗朗西斯会和所有演员——我说的是像米基·鲁尼这样的人——一起玩这个游戏。

And it is the dumbest thing in the world, but Francis would do this with all the I'm talking like Mickey Rourke.

我说的是

I'm talking about

非常严肃的硬核演员。

hardcore, like very serious people.

我现在想到的是《教父》的整个剧组。

I'm picturing the cast with The Godfather now.

不是。

No.

那是詹姆斯·柯顿。

It was it was James Cotton.

我知道。

Was I know.

我知道。

I know.

但它

But it

是约翰·沃伊特。

was John Voigt.

就是这些出色的演员。

It was like these wonderful actors.

对吧？

Right?

而且这个想法是弗朗西斯会这么做，他会开始。

And and and the idea and Francis would do it, and he would start.

他就是那个，你知道的，标志性的

And he was this, you know, iconic

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

你知道的，《教父》《现代启示录》。

You know, the godfathers, Apocalypse Now.

我的意思是，那个对话，没完没了。

I mean, you know, the conversation, on and on and on.

所有这些杰出的电影。

All of these brilliant movies.

整个目的就是让每个人都知道，这是一个可以完全愚蠢和脆弱的地方。

And the whole point was to kind of level set everybody at this is a place where you can be completely foolish and vulnerable.

是的。

Yeah.

我也会这么做。

And I'm gonna do it too.

对吧？

Right?

因为这也是其中的一部分。

And and because that's a part of it.

如果你做得对，你就真的得把自己完全展露出来。

It's like you really gotta put yourself out there if you're doing it right.

因此，即使你变得成功了，也难免会经历一些必要的羞辱。

And so there are the requisite amount of humiliations that accompany that, even as you get successful.

如果你在拍一场艰难的戏，你可能得打碎很多鸡蛋才能做出一份煎蛋卷。

If you're doing a tough scene, you might have to break a lot of eggs to get the omelet.

你

You

你知道，你必须在所有人面前这么做。

know And what I you have to do that in front of everybody.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我只是在想那些人的名单，

I I'm just thinking about the list of people,

你合作过的导演，

directors that you've worked with,

这简直太疯狂了，是科波拉、斯科塞斯。

and it's an insane it's Coppola, Scorsese.

帮我想想。

Help me out here.

人太多了。

There's a lot.

还有克林特·伊斯特伍德、斯皮尔伯格。

There's a Eastwood Eastwood, Spielberg.

克林特，克里斯托弗·诺兰。

Clint, Chris Nolan.

而我最感兴趣的其实是，虽然他们都是标志性的伟大导演，但我对伊斯特伍德作为导演会是什么样子没什么概念。

And, you know, the one I'm most interested in kind of is I mean, they're all iconic directors and and amazing, but I don't have a sense of what Eastwood would be like as a director.

我总是听说他拍戏只拍一条，或者他拍得很快。

I've always heard it was like one take or he's he's quick.

没错。

Yeah.

我第一次和他合作是在《成事在人》那天，那是我第一次和他合作，后来又合作了一次。

The the very first day so I the first time I worked with him twice, and the first time was Invictus.

我当时扮演一名南非橄榄球运动员。

So I was playing a South African rugby player.

对。

Yep.

这个口音很难掌握。

And that's a really tough accent to do.

所以我花了六个月时间，有一位非常棒的口音教练叫蒂姆·莫尼克，在我们圈子里很有名，人非常好，我认识他已经很久了。

So I spent six months there's this great dialect coach named Tim Monick, very famous in our world, and he's wonderful, and I've known him for a very long time.

蒂姆会来，当时我住在迈阿密，我在车库上面有个小办公室，他每周一到周五早上九点到下午五点都来，和我一起练习这个口音。

And Tim would come I was living in Miami at the time, and he would come, and I had a little office over the garage, and he would come in from nine to five, Monday through Friday, we would work on this accent.

因为南非人说英语时，他们的舌头动作和我们的完全相反。比如我说‘I'll be right back’，如果你说这句话，想想你的舌头在做什么，他们会说成‘obi dot bik’。

Because South Africans speak English, it's like their tongue does the exact opposite thing that ours like, if I say, I'll be right back, and if you say it, and you think about what your tongue's doing, they say, obi dot bik.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

然后你会想：我嘴里刚才发生了什么？

And you go, what the fuck just happened in my mouth?

所以这很

So it was

非常难。这就是为什么你是演员而我不是。

very hard to This is why you're an actor and I am not.

我知道。

I know.

但是

But

我们就像，你知道的，这花了很多时间，工作量很大，但也很有趣，很棒。

we took like you know, it was a long it was a lot of work and and fun and and great.

而且我到了现场，已经准备好了。

And and I showed up, and I'm ready.

这就像我有机会和我的一位偶像合作。

It's like my chance to work with one of my heroes.

第一遍拍摄我就完成了，而与此同时，我已经演过成千上万次了。

The very first take, did it, and meanwhile, I've done this so many thousands of times.

我有几种不同的想法，考虑可能怎么演这场戏。

I have a number of different ways that I'm thinking of maybe doing the scene.

于是他说：停，过了，继续下一条。

So he goes, cut, print, move on.

而且

And

我说：等等。

I go I go, hang on.

等一下。

Hang on.

等一下。

Hang on.

老板，你知道的，我再拍一条。

Boss, you know, I I do another one.

我的意思是，我根本不在场。

I mean I wasn't even in

服装。

costume.

嗯。

Yeah.

那就像第一个镜头。

That was like that was the first one.

就像，你想再拍一次。

Like, you wanna do it.

他说，为什么？

And he goes, why?

你想浪费大家的时间吗？

You wanna waste everybody's time.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我说，不。

And I went, no.

我想我们继续吧。

I guess we're moving on.

天哪。

Oh my god.

就拍了一条。

It was one take.

他手里拿着一把枪。

He was holding a gun.

但不是。

But no.

不。

No.

但是但是但是

But but but

但其中有一种善意，他并不是个可爱的人。

there was a kindness in it He wasn't lovely He guy.

真正有趣的是，我跟他合作的第二部电影中，有一个场景是我和一个九岁孩子之间的戏，逐渐推向高潮。

And what was really interesting is the second movie I did with him, there was this kind of it builds to a head with this a scene with me and this nine year old kid.

那个九岁孩子是个非专业演员，我们拍《Invictus》时，每个人——比如摩根·弗里曼之类的——都只拍一条。

And the nine year old kid was a non actor, and we had done one take for everybody, all through Invictus, Morgan Freeman, you know, everybody gets one take.

但我们这个小男孩拍了大约四十条，因为我们想捕捉电影中这个关键时刻，努力从他身上挖掘出那种感觉。

We must have done 40 takes with this little boy because we were trying to get this it was this kind of huge moment in the film, and and we were trying to get this stuff out of him.

克林特就站在我旁边，我们紧挨着摄像机，一起和这个孩子工作。

And Clint was right next to me, you know, like, we were right next to the camera together just just working with this boy.

所以他的整个理念是，只要你不在每个镜头上都过度压榨他们，你的团队就会为你赴汤蹈火。

And so it was like his and his whole mentality was your crew will will will go to the ends of the earth for you as long as you're not taxing them on every shot.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

当我们需要进场时，我们就直接进场。

When when we need to get in there, we get in there.

但大部分情况下，专业演员都会带来不错的表现，我们保持节奏。

But for the most part, we can professional actors are gonna show up with something good, and we we keep the keep the momentum.

对。

Right.

我们只有大约二十五秒的时间，来向你们介绍capital.com交易平台的诸多优势。

We've got about twenty five seconds to tell you all the great things about the capital.com trading platform.

界面简洁友好，当然能帮你更快地找到所需功能。

There's a clean user friendly design, of course, helps you get to things faster.

实时可自定义图表，提供100多个指标和绘图工具。

Real time customizable chart with more than a 100 indicators and drawings.

实时新闻推送，别忘了这一点。

Live news feed, don't forget that.

集成TradingView，如果你喜欢的话，哦，什么？

TradingView integration, if that's your thing and, oh, what?

我们没时间了？

We're out of time?

哦，好吧。

Oh, well.

前往capital.com，亲自了解其余内容。

Head to capital.com to find out the rest for yourself.

差价合约具有高风险。

CFDs involve a high level of risk.

83%的零售投资者亏损。

Eighty three percent of retail investors lose money.

我曾经短暂地和克林特·伊斯特伍德聊过，告诉他《不可饶恕》对我意味着什么。

I had a chat with Clint Eastwood once briefly, and I told him how much unforgiven meant to me.

这是一部美国电影，票房大获成功，但却是一部非常欧洲化的影片。

It's an American movie that was a huge hit, box office hit, and it's a very European film.

他只是问我：你这话是什么意思？

And he just sort of asked me, what do you mean?

我说，因为每个人都想做对的事，结果却让事情变得更糟，这非常贴近生活。

And I said, because it's everyone's trying to do the right thing and making it worse, which is very much life.

这并不是一种经典的美国电影套路。

And that is not a a a kind of classic American movie formula.

这部电影对我来说很神奇，而他当时打动了我。

That movie is magical to me, And and he hit me.

不。

No.

他想

He's Wanna

听过一个关于《不可饶恕》的好故事吗？

hear a good unforgiven story?

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

如果觉得对观众来说太无聊了，可以剪掉，但我个人觉得特别有意思。

That you can cut out if it's too boring for people, but I I thought it was really interesting.

《成事在人》里有一个场景。

There was a scene in Invictus.

我想我得在更衣室里对那些家伙发表什么演讲之类的。

I think I had to give a speech or something to the to the guys in the locker room or something like that.

我们定在下周二拍摄那个场景，我就对他说：‘老板，周二那个场景，你介意我改改对白吗？’

And we were shooting it the following Tuesday or whatever, and I and I said to him, hey, boss, you know, that scene on Tuesday, do you mind if I tinker with the dialogue?

我一直在琢磨，我觉得我能想出一个更好的表达方式。

I've been working on it, but I I think I I can figure out a kind of a better way to say it.

他确实，是的。

And and he was, yeah.

当然。

Sure.

说吧。

Go ahead.

于是我回来了，星期二我们拍了那场戏，拍了一条，他就直接采用了，然后继续下一场。

And so I came back, and on Tuesday, we shot the scene, and we did one take, and he printed it and moved on.

但他走过来对我说：我以为你会改一改、润色一下呢。

But he came up to me and said, I thought you were gonna change it and fix it.

我说：是啊，这事儿挺搞笑的。

And I said, yeah, it's a funny story.

我说：我写好了，整个周末都在重写。

I go, I wrote it, and I rewrote it all weekend.

我写了大概二十七稿，最后终于完美了。

I wrote probably 27 drafts, then and I got it perfect.

我回头一看，发现和原来的版本完全一样。

And I looked back, and it was exactly the same as the original was.

他笑了，说：‘是啊。’

And he laughed, and he goes, Yeah.

他说：‘这种事情我也遇到过一次。’

He goes, You know, that happened to me once.

我说：‘真的吗？’

I go, Really?

他说：‘我有个剧本，特别喜欢，而且已经写好了。’

He goes, I had a script, I loved it, and I had it.

他说：‘我为这个剧本花了五年时间。’

And he goes, I worked for five years on this thing.

他说：‘它一直没变好，我也搞不懂为什么。’

And he goes, it wasn't getting better and I couldn't figure it out.

他说：‘然后我就回到了最初的那个原始剧本。’

And goes, and then I went back to the original script that I had.

我从抽屉里把它拿出来读了，当天就给那位编剧打了电话，说：我会完全按照你写的原样拍摄这部剧本。

I pulled it out of the drawer and I read it, and I called the writer that day and said, I'm making your script exactly as you wrote it.

我说：不可能。

And I said, no way.

哪部电影？

What movie?

他说：《不可饶恕》。

And he said, Unforgiven.

哦，天哪。

Oh, wow.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此，所有内容都在剧本上写得清清楚楚。

Well, it is, it's all there on the page.

我的意思是，我看过那个剧本。

I mean, I've looked at the script.

所有内容都在剧本上。

It's all there on the page.

是的。

Yeah.

但有时候我们会陷入那种心态，觉得‘我想我或许可以’，你懂我的意思吧？

But it's sometimes we get in that headspace where we go, oh, I bet I could, you know what I mean?

当然懂。

Yeah, of course.

但这真是一个很好的教训，提醒我们要回到最初吸引你的东西。

But it was a great lesson in kind of returning to what attracted you to it in the first place.

对吧？

Right?

就是那种根本的元素，真正吸引你的东西，那才是你做这件事的原因。

Like, the elemental aspect, that thing that really pulled you in, like, you know, is the reason you're doing it.

所以过度修改，可能会让你渐渐偏离那个初衷。

And so too much tinkering, can you can kind of get away from that.

是的。

Yes.

你可以。

You can.

嗯。

Yeah.

这真的很蠢，但好吧。

It's, this is really stupid, but Oh, okay.

你说得非常得体、聪明，我待会儿要插话。

You're saying very well spoken, intelligent things I'm gonna come in with.

但多年来，在深夜脱口秀节目中，人们会有一个好点子，然后带到现场时，却和他们告诉我的不一样。

But for years on the late night talk show, people would have a good idea, and then they'd bring it down to the floor, and it would be different from what they told me.

他们会说，是的。

And they would say, yeah.

我开始思考这个问题。

I started thinking about it.

我总是说，想得太多，就会变臭。

And I would always say, when you overthink, you start to stink.

实际上，这很棒。

And Actually, that's great.

你知道吗，她有点像苏斯博士。

You know She is kind a doctor Seuss

苏斯博士。

doctor Matt.

这并不棒。

It's not great.

它只是

It's

不是。

not.

不。

No.

但本来我可以的，我本可以以一种更聪明的方式说，但我故意用最愚蠢的方式说了出来。

But it's but couldn't I have I would do it in that in, like I I have a really smart thing to say, but I I intentionally, I think, said it in the stupidest way possible.

但后来这变成了一件编剧们有时会喊出来的事情。

But then it became a thing that the writers would chant sometimes.

他们会喊出来。

They would chant it.

不。

No.

那是我编的。

I made that up.

想象一下克林特·伊斯特伍德说这句话的样子。

Imagine Clint Eastwood saying that.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这其实很棒。

That's actually great.

真希望能看到。

It'd be

nice to see.（注：此句为Speaker 1的简短回应，与前句合并为完整语义，但按指令需独立翻译，故保留原意）

nice to see.

我经常想到你的其中一部电影。

I think about one of your movies a lot.

不止一部电影。

It's more than one movie.

这是一系列电影，尤其是《身份觉醒》，因为我工作需要经常国际旅行，现在总是频繁经过机场，甚至都不用出示证件了。

It's a series, but Born Identity because I do a lot of international travel for work, and I'm constantly going through airports now where you don't even have to show

你在想我正在想的事吗？

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

是的。

Yeah.

听好了。

Listen.

你在拿自己和

You're comparing yourself

杰森·伯恩比较。

to Jason Bourne.

我经常遇到这种情况。

I get it a lot.

国际机场里的人会说你很有杰森·伯恩的味道。

People in airports internationally say you're very Jason Bourne esque.

然后他们看到我跑起来，就会说：别管我刚才说的了。

And then they see me run and they go, forget what I just said.

接着他们戴上眼镜，仔细看看我的脸，说：算了，当我没说。

And then they put on their glasses and look at my face and go, really forget me.

不。

No.

我注意到，现在我经过机场时，甚至都不用出示护照了。

What I've noticed is that I'll go through airports now, and you don't even have to show your passport.

全靠虹膜扫描了，我觉得杰森·伯恩这下完蛋了。

It's all your eye scan, and I think Jason Bourne is fucked now.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

你这个角色最大的亮点就是一场在巴黎街头的大打出手、枪战，然后瞬间就到了开罗，所有人都在找你。

The big thing with you with your character was a major fight, throw down, shoot out in the streets of Paris, and then instantly you're in Cairo, and everyone's looking for you.

他

He's

一个幽灵。

a ghost.

嗯。

Yeah.

你是个幽灵，却突然出现在开罗。

He's a ghost, and you've reappeared in Cairo.

我现在觉得，就是你的虹膜。

And I'm thinking now it's just, you know, your iris.

嗯。

Yeah.

大概几年前开始的，我从某地回来时，有了全球通，那已经很方便了。

It was kind of a couple years ago that that started where I came back from somewhere, and I had the Global Entry, you know, and that was already pretty easy.

你去自助终端机，把护照放进去，它读取信息、拍张照片，然后说：没错，就是你。

You go to the kiosk and you put your passport in, and it reads it and takes a picture and goes, yeah, that's you.

现在，你甚至都不用拿出护照了。

Now, it's like you don't even need to pull your passport out.

所以，是的，他肯定会完蛋。

And so, yeah, he would be totally screwed.

关键是，他有六本护照，每本都对应不同的身份，而且他会说所有这些语言，可以随时变成其中任何一个人。

Like, the whole point was he had six passports, and they all had different identities, and he could speak all those languages, and he could just become one of those guys.

现在

Now

他的保险箱里有六只眼睛。

his safety deposit box has six eyes.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

你戴在隐形眼镜上的眼球。

Eyeballs you put on contact lenses.

不。

No.

我当时也记得，我们曾经采访过艾米莉·布朗特，她跟我们聊起过你们一起拍的一部电影，其中有一场她需要奔跑的戏。

I was and also, I remembered I was talking to I think we were interviewing Emily Blunt once, and she was talking to us about a movie you guys made together where she had to run-in one scene.

是的。

Yeah.

你说那是她第一次需要奔跑的镜头，你非常友善地对她说：‘艾米莉，你去看看吧。’

And you said it was her first scene where she had to run and that you called you you very kindly said, yeah, Emily, just take a look.

看看你自己奔跑的样子，因为你觉得你跑得不错，但实际上，当你在镜头前自以为跑得很好时，回看录像却发现可能完全错了，简直惨不忍睹。

Look at yourself running, and here's how you wanna because you think you're running well, but there's a way when you think you're running well on camera, but then you look back at it, it can be tragically wrong.

你知道是谁告诉我的吗？

Do know who told me that?

不知道。

No.

是弗兰卡·佩滕特告诉我的，她是我出演《出生》时的搭档，她主演过一部很棒的德国电影《罗拉快跑》。

It was Franca Pettente, who was my co star in Born, had starred in this great German movie called Run Lola Run.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她在那部电影里从头跑到尾。

And she runs in that movie through the whole movie.

她就是洛拉。

She's Lola.

没错。

Yep.

她在整部电影里都特别酷。

And she's so badass for the whole movie.

她穿着德比鞋，这部电影简直太棒了。

She's in these Doc Martens, and she's it's just an awesome movie.

我们在《出生》的片场时，我需要拍一场跑步的戏。

And we were on set of Born, and I had to do a running scene.

她说，导演《跑吧，洛拉》的托马斯，曾经和她交往过一段时间。

And she said, Thomas, the guy who directed Run, Low to Run, they had been a couple for a while.

她说，托马斯在我开拍前让我出去，他用摄像机录下了我跑步的样子。

And she said, Thomas told me before I started doing it to go out, he videotaped me running.

我们看了那段视频，因为她说了，你知道，我们平时看到的跑步，就是像尤塞恩·博尔特那样的。

And we looked at it because she said, you don't you know, the only running that we see, you know, is you know, we see Usain Bolt.

我们看到的都是真正会跑的人，然后我们就想，我跑步肯定也是那样。

We see, you know, the people who can really run, and we go, that's I must look like that.

对吧？

Right?

当你刚开始跑步的时候，你

When you start to run, you're

你看起来简直太滑稽了。

you're like, you just look ridiculous.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

我以为我跑得特别棒。

And I thought I ran great.

然后我一看，心想天啊。

And then I looked, and I was like, oh my god.

是杰瑞·刘易斯。

It's Jerry Lewis.

真的就是他。

It really is.

就像，每一个动作，球啊，所有东西。

Like, every like, the ball everything.

所以你开始练习，比如，你知道的，高抬腿和那个？

And so you start to practice, like, you know, high knees and by know?

还有，保持手臂收紧。

And, like, keep the arms in.

完全对。

Totally.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的跟艾米莉说了，我肯定说过，因为

And it really and so I I did say that to Emily, I'm sure, because

不，你说的是你救了她。

it was really No, said you saved her.

这太棒了。

It was great.

但这就是那种情况，你知道的，我平时不太跑步，但如果因为某种原因我必须快速奔跑，我脑子里就会把自己当成马特·达蒙或者汤姆·克鲁斯，可实际上我就是那种在二手车行前飘来飘去的大气球之一。

But it was one of those things that, you know, I just All of us in our mind, if I'm running hard, which I don't do much anymore, but if for some reason I had to run quickly, in my mind, I'm I'm I'm Matt Damon or I'm Tom Cruise, but I know I really am, you know, one of the big balloons that they have in front of a a used car lot that's flopping around.

我跑步时还会尖叫，这可帮不上忙。

And I shriek too as I run, which isn't helping.

但他很早就想明白了。

But He's figured it out early.

我记得《七月四日诞生》里有个经典场景，他在雨中奔跑回家，你知道的，就是在去参军之前，对吧。

I remember there's that great scene in, born on the July 4 where he runs through the rain back, you know, before he goes off to war and, like Right.

他肯定是在八十年代就搞清楚了。

He must have figured it out in, like, the eighties.

他比所有人都领先。

He he was ahead of everybody.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他可能有一个科学公式，或者空气动力学流程图。

He probably has a, yeah, scientific formula, aerodynamic flowchart.

他跑得完美无缺。

He runs perfectly.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我想和你聊聊这部当前的电影《The Rip》，它让我非常着迷。

I I I wanted to talk to you because about this current movie, The Rip, which is fascinating to me.

首先，我看完这部电影之前对它一无所知。

First of all, well, I knew nothing about the movie when I watched it.

我昨晚才看的。

I watched it last night.

其中一件我没意识到的事是，哦，你和我一样对这部电影一无所知，这在如今可不常见，但有人安排了，哦，康纳可以看这部电影。

And one of the things that I didn't realize is that, oh, you're in this with I knew nothing, which is not the way you usually experience a movie these days, but someone arranged, oh, Conan can watch the movie.

只要你登录这个平台，就能观看。

If you log into this, you can watch it.

所以我真的什么都不知道。

So I knew absolutely nothing.

我只知道你出演了，仅此而已。

I knew you were in it, that's it.

这是一部你和本一起拍的电影。

And it's a movie that you, have made with Ben.

你和本一起出演了这部电影，这让我很意外。

You and Ben are in it together, and that was a surprise to me.

我觉得这很有趣。

And I thought, this is interesting.

对你们来说，现在这种情况充满了意义，以一种非常友好、赞许的方式，你们这对黄金搭档重新合作了。

This is such a loaded situation for you guys now because in a very nice way, in a complimentary way, it's it's this dynamic duo getting back together.

但你们合作时，是否感受到这种压力呢？

But don't know if you feel the weight of that at all when you guys work together.

几年前，本执导的那部电影《空气》上映了，我们俩都在里面出演。

The movie air together a few years ago that Ben directed, and he's also he's we're both in it together.

你知道的，我们还一起创办了这个小工作室，没错。

Know, and we we started this little studio together Yeah.

几年前。

A few years ago.

我们创办工作室的原因之一，是我看了那部披头士的纪录片，就是彼得·杰克逊拍的那部。

And one of the one of the reasons that we started it like, I was watching that Beatles documentary, the the Peter Jackson one.

回来。

Get back.

回来。

Get back.

在那部纪录片的结尾，有一个令人惊叹的场景，他们一起在屋顶上演出，对吧。

At the end of that documentary, there's this incredible scene when they when they play on the roof, right, together.

那纯粹是喜悦。

And it's just there it's pure joy.

你看到他们，警察出现了，麦卡特尼转过身来。

You see them you know, the cops show up, and McCartney turns around.

他心想：‘搞什么鬼？’

He's like, what the fuck?

你知道，那简直是最令人快乐的时刻。

You know, they're it's like the most joyful thing.

他们那时都才二十多岁。

They're all in their twenties.

然后彼得·杰克逊在屏幕上打出字幕，写道：这是披头士最后一次一起现场演出。

And then Peter Jackson put this chyron up, and it said, this is the last time the Beatles played live together.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时正在看。

And I was watching it.

那时我最小的女儿大概11岁，她突然说：爸爸，你为什么哭了？

My my youngest was, I think, 11 at the time, and and she just goes, dad, why are you crying?

嗯。

Mhmm.

泪水不停地从我脸上流下来，因为我觉得太伤感了，这些家伙，就这样结束了。

And tears were just pouring down my face because it was like, what a it made me so sad that these guys who were just you know, this was it.

他们明明可以继续一起走下去，却没能跨越那些阻碍他们继续合作的障碍。

That that they they didn't they couldn't get past whatever it was that wouldn't allow them to kind of keep doing it together.