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康南·奥布莱恩需要一个粉丝。
Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
想和康南聊聊吗？
Wanna talk to Conan?
去 teamcoco.com/callconan 网站吧。
Visit teamcoco.com/callconan.
好的。
Okay.
我们开始吧。
Let's get started.
嘿，迈卡。
Hey, Micah.
欢迎来到《康南·奥布莱恩需要一个粉丝》。
Welcome to Conan O'Brien needs a fan.
你好。
Hello.
谢谢。
Thank you.
嗨，米卡。
Hi, Micah.
你最近怎么样？
How are you?
你过得好吗？
How are you doing?
你现在在世界的哪个地方，米卡？
Where are you right now in the world, Micah?
我在佐治亚州亚特兰大的木偶艺术中心。
I am in Atlanta, Georgia at the Center For Puppetry Arts.
你做木偶相关的工作。
You work with puppets.
是的。
Of it.
是的。
Yes.
我好像没听说过，不过你跟我说说，这是个木偶博物馆？
I'm gonna say I I don't think I've heard of it, but tell me, this is a puppet museum.
这是做什么的？
What is it?
我们在这儿干什么？
What what are we doing here?
我们是把木偶存起来吗？
Are we storing puppets?
还是在展示它们？
Are we displaying them?
你那边的木偶世界最近有什么动静？
What's happening in your puppet world?
对。
Yeah.
我们是个博物馆，专门展示木偶的博物馆。
We're we're a museum, a puppet museum.
我们同时也是个表演艺术中心。
We're also a performing arts center.
我们会举办涉及木偶的舞台演出，而我负责博物馆这边的工作。
So we have performances that involve puppets on stage, but then I work in the museum side of things.
我是藏品管理员，简单说就是负责照顾博物馆里的所有木偶。
So I'm the collections manager, which essentially just means I take care of the puppets in the museum.
明白了。
Okay.
我们这里展出的是有名的木偶吗？
Are we talking famous puppets here?
这些木偶是你认识的那些吗？
Would would these be puppets that I know?
是的。
Yes.
我们这里有大约500个吉姆·亨森原创的木偶。
We have about 500 of the Jim Henson original Jim Henson puppets.
哦，我们通常管这些叫毛绒木偶，对吧？
Oh, we call those Muppets, don't we?
是的。
Yes.
没错，我们就叫它们毛绒木偶。
We do call them Muppets.
不好意思，我刚才说错了。
Well, I'm sorry.
我们做木偶表演这一行的
We in the business of puppetry
哦。
Oh.
都管这叫毛绒木偶艺术。
Call that Muppetry.
所以你们有木偶剧角色。
So you have Muppets.
你们有五百个木偶剧角色？
You have 500 Muppets?
是的。
Yes.
没错。
We do.
我们有五百个，包括小猪佩奇、克米特、《芝麻街》的角色，还有《黑暗水晶》和《迷宫》里的木偶。
We have 500 Muppets, miss Piggy, Kermit, the Sesame Street characters, puppets from the dark crystal and labyrinth
哇哦。
Wow.
还有很多其他的。
Among others.
都是些你一听就能认出来的角色。
So, you know, stuff you would recognize.
我有幸见过吉姆·亨森好几次，那会儿我还没做深夜秀，什么都没开始。
I had the honor and privilege of, getting to meet Jim Henson a couple of times, in this is long before I did my late night show or anything.
上大学的时候，他女儿丽莎和我一起在《大学幽默》杂志工作，他偶尔会过来。
I when I was in college, his daughter, Lisa, was on the College Humor magazine with me, and he would come by.
有一次他跟我说：‘康纳，你们《大学幽默》要不要把《黑暗水晶》里的王座搬一个去，放你们楼里当个摆设，图个乐子？’
And he once said to me, Conan, would you would you for the College Humor magazine, would you guys like to have one of the thrones from Dark Crystal to keep in your building just for fun?
因为我们仓库里还留着一个。
Because we have it in our storage facility.
我当时就说：‘天哪。’
And I said, oh, god.
当然可以，亨森先生。
Yes, mister Hanson.
于是我租了辆货车，和几个朋友开车去纽约，把那个特别酷的——我记得是玻璃纤维做的《黑暗水晶》王座——运回了剑桥的《国家讽刺》大楼。
And I rented a van and drove down to New York and, picked up with some friends of mine this really cool I think it was fiberglass dark crystal throne and brought it back to the Lampoon Building in Cambridge.
我想现在应该还在那儿。
And I believe it's still there.
真的吗？
Really?
意思是还在那儿？
That means still there?
我觉得还在那儿。
I think it's still there.
可能得专门跑一趟去把它取回来。
Might have to make a road trip to go get Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你们真该去把它拿走，我不放心那些人照看它。
You guys should come take it because I don't trust Yeah.
那些负责看管它的人。
Those idiots who are looking after it.
他们，你知道的，大概会吧。
They, you know, probably Yeah.
很可能只是在那儿放着一个啤酒桶。
It's probably just holding a beer keg.
但是
But
很多《黑暗水晶》和《迷宫》的道具因为材质特殊，特别难保养。
A lot of the dark crystal stuff and the labyrinth stuff is really difficult to take care of just due to the materials.
所以有些已经找不到了。
So some of it's not around anymore.
太不可思议了。
It's incredible.
你那里有不少吉姆·亨森的东西。
So you have a lot of Jim Henson stuff.
这太棒了。
That's amazing.
还有哪些著名的木偶是我认识的吗？
Any other famous puppets that I would know?
是的。
Yeah.
我们有个兰博肖。
We have Lambchop.
我们最近刚收到一套《兰博肖和朋友们》的木偶，索娜，你可能还记得小时候看过。
We just got a Lambchop and Friends puppets, which Sona maybe you remember from our childhood days.
我
I
当然记得。
sure do.
你小时候演过兰博肖吗？
Were you a Lambchop?
我演过。
I was.
她叫什么名字？
I What was her name?
她叫
Her name was
天哪，想不起来了。
It's Oh, god.
那只羊叫什么来着？
What was the lamb
Chop？
chop?
刘易斯。
Lewis.
谢丽·刘易斯。
Sherry Lewis.
谢丽·刘易斯。
Sherry Lewis.
特别有名。
Very famous.
是的。
Yeah.
那只羊偶是她的玩偶。
And lamb chop was her puppet.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Yeah.
对。
Mhmm.
我记得那只羊偶。
I remember lamb chop.
嗯，记得。
Uh-huh.
我们还有《神秘科学影院3000》的那些木偶。
And we have the Mystery Science Theater 3,000 puppets.
天啊，真厉害。
Oh, wow.
它们就在你身后。
Which you can see behind me.
哎呀，快看那个。
That's oh, look at that.
我的天啊。
Oh my god.
我的
My
天啊。
my god.
快看查基。
Look at Chucky.
查基。
Chucky.
你这话说得也太晚了吧。
You just buried the lead.
你这儿有查基。
You have Chucky.
这就是那个查基吗？
Is that the Chucky?
就是查基，那个查基。
It is the Chucky a the Chucky.
不止一个。
There are multiples.
这个是后来那部剧里的，我记得是在科幻频道播的。
This one is from the newer TV show on that was, I think, on sci fi.
所以这是新版的。
So it's a newer one.
但没错，这确实是奇哥。
But, yes, it is the Chucky.
我们所有的木偶都是原版，通常在捐赠给我们之前就已经被使用过了。
All of our puppets are originals, usually performed before they're they're gifted to us.
是的。
So yeah.
所以呢。
So
那普通木偶操作者呢？
what about an average Joe puppeteer?
他们能把自己的木偶捐给你们博物馆吗？
Can they donate their puppet to your museum?
可以。
Yeah.
我们有套流程，但确实接受捐赠。
We have a process, but we do take acquisitions.
我们确实会接收一些藏品。
We do acquire things.
所以，没错，在这五千个木偶里，我们有来自世界各地的木偶，各种不同的木偶传统，有些甚至可以追溯到十九世纪。
And so, yeah, we have, you know, in that 5,000 puppets, we have puppets from all over the world, you know, different puppetry traditions from all over the world, puppets that date back, you know, eighteen hundreds.
所以，人们可以给我打电话、写信，主动提出捐赠。
And and so, yeah, people can can call me, write me, and and offer
把他们的木偶给我。
me the puppets.
这种事确实时有发生。
This must happen sometimes.
有人来找你，说想捐一个木偶，结果那木偶——哎呀，真够寒酸的。
Someone comes to you and says, I'd like to donate my puppet, and the puppet is, oh, come on.
就是个纸盘子，随便剪了个嘴。
It's it's like a paper plate, and they cut a mouth in it.
你知道的，根本没法看。
And they you know, it's just not good.
你是不是想说，我们目前的藏品已经够了，但还是非常感谢你的好意？
Are you in the position of saying, I think we're okay where but thank you so much.
你们有时候得拒绝一些木偶吗？
Do you have to turn down puppets sometimes?
是的。
Yeah.
我确实会拒绝。
I do.
虽然这么做挺不好意思的，但你说得对。
Feel kind of bad doing it, but you're right.
我的意思是，并不是每一件东西都值得进博物馆，尽管大家都希望自己的东西能永远保存下去。
I mean, not everything is museum worthy as much as people want their stuff to last forever.
明白了。
Okay.
米迦，我问你个问题
Micah, let me ask you
得挑着来。
selective.
麦卡，你有没有为了不伤他们的心，而说声谢谢？
Micah, would you ever just to spare their feelings, say thank you.
这真是件了不起的作品。
This is such a wonderful piece.
等他们一走，就扔进碎纸机？
And then when they leave, feed it into a shredder?
天哪。
Oh, boy.
得了吧。
Oh, come on.
什么？
What?
你意思是
What do
什么意思？
mean?
我们不能把木偶拿去碎纸机里碎掉。
We can't be shredding puppets.
当然可以啊。
Well, yes, you can.
不行。
No.
你可以把它们收进箱子里，但为什么非要拿去碎纸机？
You could put them in a box, but you can't why are you why are you shredding
为什么？
them?
因为迟早会没地方放啊，我只是觉得，不如把那些老木偶师的旧作品处理掉。
Because you gotta it's gonna run out of space if you I just I'm thinking you spare the old puppeteers field.
把它们碎掉。
Shredding them.
那可是以前的惯例。
That that was the go to.
好吧。
Well, alright.
米迦，说实话，你只是在重复索尼娅说过的话。
Well, Micah, I mean, think you're just repeating what Sonja said.
所以我觉得你其实同意我，但你怕得罪那些玩木偶的人，才不肯说。
So I think you secretly agree with me, but you know you wanna keep the puppet people on your side.
听我说。
Listen.
对。
Yeah.
我们应该把它们妥善处理掉。
I We dispose of
我想，得用合适的方式处理吧。
them in an appropriate manner, I suppose.
当然。
Sure.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
我们管这叫烧掉。
We call that burning.
别闹了。
Come on.
或者干脆把它们泡在肉汤里，如果你想处理掉这些傀儡，那就把它们扔进一群狗里，这倒是个好办法。
Or just a Dip them in be you know, it'd be a good thing to do if you wanna get rid of puppets is dip them in, like, a beef broth and then throw them into a pack of dogs.
天哪。
Oh my god.
你根本不可能在木偶音乐行业干下去。
You could never work in a puppet music.
我只是想看看，一个刚被慈祥的老木偶师捐赠的木偶，几秒钟后就被撕得四分五裂。
I just to see a to see a puppet torn limb from limb seconds after it was donated by a kindly old puppeteer.
是的。
Yeah.
对于所有人来说
To all
然后他又回来了，因为他把钱包落下了，他说：‘天啊，糟了。’
my And then he comes back because he left his wallet, and he's like, oh, no.
我的小咕咕。
My little gob gob.
米迦，你太狠了。
Micah awful.
你太残忍了。
You're awful.
你想想吧，米迦。
Think about it, Micah.
这事儿你肯定会想试试。
It's something you're gonna wanna do.
既然你已经想象出来了，那你肯定会去做的。
And now that you've pictured it, you're going to do it.
对。
Yeah.
Micah，假设你晚上加班，这种事肯定偶尔发生过吧。
Micah, let's say it's you're working there late, which I'm sure has happened sometimes.
天慢慢黑了，你一个人在那儿走来走去。
And it's getting dark, and you're walking around.
肯定有那么几次，你心里会想……
Must be there must be times when you think
你到底想说什么？
Where's this going?
我好像看见那个查基玩偶动了一下。
There's a I think I saw that Chucky puppet move.
我早就知道了。
Come I knew.
我看见了。
I saw.
这简直像每三集《阴阳魔界》就出现一次的情节。
But, I mean, it's I mean, it's every third twilight zone.
这些玩偶活过来了，是的。
These puppets come to life Yeah.
它们还威胁你。
And they menace you.
晚上一个人待在这些玩偶旁边，你有没有过一丝恐惧？
Have you ever been a little paranoid being around these puppets at night?
说实话。
And be honest.
说实话。
Be honest.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
有一次我真的跑出去找了个同事。
Well, there was one time where I did run and get a coworker.
我确信我听到了动静。
I'm pretty sure I heard a noise.
那当然了。
Of course, you did.
就在这儿。
Was in here.
我通常一个人在这儿，灯过一会儿没人动就会自动关掉。
I'm usually in here by myself, and the lights turn off automatically Mhmm.
要是你一直不动的话。
After a while if you don't move around.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，没错，我确实去了。
So, yeah, I did
你觉得是哪个玩偶在动？
my Which puppet which puppet do you think was moving?
说实话。
Which be honest.
你觉得是哪个玩偶在动？
Which puppet do you think was moving?
是哪个玩偶？
Which puppet?
你那些谎话。
Your lies.
你的那些谎话，一个都不算。
None None of your lies.
你的那些花招和蠢事全都不算数。
None of your chicanery or tomfoolery.
你到底有多确定是哪个木偶在动？
Which puppet are you quite certain was moving?
我觉得是《黑暗水晶》里那个斯凯西斯。
I I think it was one of the Skeksis from the Dark Crystal.
天哪。
Oh god.
是的。
Yeah.
斯凯西斯？
The Skeksis?
他们也是单独待在后面的房间里。
Likewise, they're in a back room by themselves.
对。
Yeah.
那边的灯总是关着的。
And the light is always off back there.
我往那边走的时候，灯不会亮，直到我进屋才亮，因为感应到我的动作。
And I was walking back there, but the light doesn't turn on until I'm in the room Yeah.
它能感应到我的移动。
Because it catches my movement.
我往那边走的时候，还没进屋，就清清楚楚听见了一声——
And as I was walking back there, but before I was in the room, I definitely heard a
声音？是不是那种‘她来了’的感觉？
sound Was it like, here she comes.
她来了。
Here she comes.
天哪。
Oh god.
她有火气啊，小心点。
She's got beef Oh, look out.
我同事进来的时候，我确实觉得有点尴尬，很明显。
I did feel a little silly when my coworker came in, obviously,
其实什么都没发生。
there was nothing going on.
关键是，这些玩偶可不傻。
Well, the the thing is these puppets aren't dumb.
它们知道，只要你带了外人来，就得闭嘴。
They know that when you bring someone else, they gotta clam up.
所以它们就这么做。
So that's what they do.
它们一动不动，闭口不言，等你朋友一走，就准备找你算账。
They freeze and they clam up, and then your friend leaves, and they're like, we're gonna get you.
非得找你算账。
We're gonna get you.
对。
Yeah.
咱们把查基放在我身后，这样你们就能看到，我觉得既然他明摆着在这儿，我就不用操心了。
Let's all have Chucky right here behind me so that you know, I figure if he's out in the open, I don't have to worry.
我总能知道他在哪儿。
I always know where he is.
对。
Yeah.
不过你为啥一整晚都背对着他？
Why do have your back to him the whole time, though?
你这做法，米迦，我可绝对不干。
That's the thing you're doing, Micah, that I would never do.
你让他就贴在你背后，我总觉得他手里拿着武器。
You have him locate Chuckie's right behind you, and I think he's holding a weapon.
他手里是不是拿着武器？
Is he holding a weapon?
是的。
Yes.
他手里拿着一把刀。
He is holding a a knife.
对。
Yes.
Micah，你这话说得不对啊，Micah。
What the Micah Micah Micah's right
就在他旁边。
next to him.
小猪佩奇能把查基收拾得服服帖帖。
Miss Piggy would fuck Chuckie up.
她确实能。
She would.
你难道没想过，小猪佩奇也想摆脱她的人类主人吗？
Do know Miss Piggy isn't doesn't also wanna be freed from her human overlord?
我的意思是，小猪佩奇说不定会帮忙。
I mean, Miss Piggy might help.
他不可能有这个机会。
He might There's no chance.
你在说什么呢？
What are you talking about?
小猪佩奇才不想呢。
Miss Piggy doesn't wanna.
小猪佩奇根本不会做那种事。
Well, miss Piggy would never do that.
小猪佩奇会保护自己，也会保护在场的每一个人，因为她可是
Miss Piggy would defend herself and everybody there because she's
一只猪。
a piggy.
她也有个玩偶。
She has a puppet too.
不会的。
No.
但这根本不重要。
But that doesn't matter.
她知道谁在掌控局面。
She knows who's riding
她想和查基一起分享聚光灯。
who's she would wanna share the spotlight with Chucky.
是的。
Yes.
当然。
Sure.
米凯。
Micah.
这今天听起来总算像句人话。
That's the first sensible thing I've heard today.
她是个大牌，才不会让查基独占谋杀案的新闻头条呢。
She's a diva, and she wouldn't want, you know, Chucky to get all the press for being the murderer.
所以，如果非要说的话，真正出风头的会是小猪佩蒂，而查基呢，就只能在旁边吓得发抖。
So if anything, it's gonna be miss Piggy who gets you and Chucky who's just, you know, watching in horror.
我实在受不了这种胡说八道。
I don't like this blasphemy at all.
我知道。
I know.
但说到小猪佩蒂，这可不行。
Not when it comes to miss Piggy.
我好奇你有没有给小猪佩蒂梳过头发？
I wanted do you ever brush miss Piggy's hair?
没有。
No.
我偶尔得帮那些木偶整理一下假发。
I do occasionally have to fix the wigs that the puppets have.
不过那还挺有意思的。
But That's exciting.
做一些奇怪的事。
Do, like, weird things.
比如我偶尔得把大鸟的羽毛拍松。
Like, I have to fluff Big Bird occasionally.
是的。
Yeah.
你说拍松大鸟，具体是指什么？
When you say fluff Big Bird I What are we talking about here?
它会变得扁平。
She gets flat.
你懂的。
You know?
我的意思是。
I mean
对。
Yeah.
哦，我懂。
Oh, I know.
哦，我明白。
Oh, I know.
会有点热闹。
Gets a little lit.
你懂的。
You know?
对。
Yeah.
所以呢。
So
是的。
Yeah.
我得帮他拍松一下。
I have to fluff him
有一点。
a little bit.
我们这儿有个大拍摄呢，老兄。
We got a big shoot going on here, big bird.
我来给你整理一下。
I'm gonna fluff you up.
这事儿挺怪的。
It's a it's a strange
时间就是金钱，老兄。
Time is money, big bird.
时间就是金钱。
Time is money.
我得告诉你我见过的最吓人的一幕。
I'm gonna tell you the most horrifying sight I've ever seen.
太糟糕了。
So bad.
有一次，有人让我去《芝麻街》帮忙，那就是Micah。
Micah, which is one time I was asked to do something on Sesame Street.
这事儿估计得有二十五年前了吧。
This is you know, could have been, like, twenty five years ago.
我过去的时候，他们好像在布鲁克林，去《芝麻街》那边，因为地方太小，木偶只能随便找个地方塞着。
And I went over to I think they were in Brooklyn or I went over to Sesame Street, and they have to store the puppets wherever they can because, you know, space is limited.
他们把斯纳福普加斯绑在天花板上，这玩意儿太大了，总得有个地方放。
And they had lash snuffleupagus to the ceiling because it's a giant puppet, and you've gotta store it somewhere.
那木偶软趴趴的，一点生气都没有，就这么被绳子捆在天花板上，一部分吊着，一部分固定着。
And it was lifeless, inanimate, limp snuffleupagus, and it was lashed to the ceiling, like parts kind of hanging, but other parts secured with ropes.
看起来就像汉尼拔刚发了疯，天哪。
And it looked like Hannibal Lecter had just had gone psycho Oh god.
把斯纳福普加斯折磨得不成样子，还钉在天花板上，摆出一副‘看我的杰作，我的谋杀作品’的架势。
On Snuffleupagus and then nailed him to the ceiling in this ghastly, performative, behold my proud masterpiece, my murder.
那画面就是那样，是我这辈子见过最吓人的景象。
That's what it looked like, and it was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen.
孩子们到处走动，所以他们也能看到。
And kids were walking around, so kids could see it too.
我得跟孩子们解释，天哪。
And And I had to tell the kids, oh my god.
我得给他们一个说得通的说法，所以我说他不小心，被人害死了。
I mean, had to make sense of it to them, so I told them he wasn't careful and he was murdered.
不是的。
No.
我
I
总会想到一件事。
tend to think of something.
这可不太合适。
That's not cool.
对。
Yeah.
至少咱们没再拿大鸟开玩笑了。
Well, at least I got us off of fluffing Big Bird.
对。
Yeah.
反而带我们去看了那起大规模谋杀案。
And took us to the mass murder.
看到木偶跟平时的样子差别这么大，真不太舒服。
Not great to see the puppets not like they're supposed to look.
这些木偶的状态确实不太好。
We definitely got the puppets in somewhat poor condition.
它们显然被用了好多年，之后又一直放在仓库里。
They had been used, obviously, for years and then in a warehouse.
所以我们得做大量修复工作。
So we did have to do a lot of work.
我工作的一部分就是确保它们依然保持原本的角色形象，不能让孩子们觉得被毁了。
So part of my job is to make sure that they still look like the characters they're supposed to look like so we don't, you know, destroy children's
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所以这些 puppet，有些是常年在外奔波，用完还淋着雨收起来的。
So these some of these puppets you get have been, you know, road hard and put away wet.
这些 puppet 简直烂透了。
They're like, these are fucked up puppets.
情况很糟糕。
Hard.
确实如此。
Yeah.
你也不好说。
You can Not saying.
全都磨得不成样子了。
They're like all worn out.
全都被弄坏了。
They're all screwed up.
哦。
Oh.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
它们身上都有洞。
They've got holes in them.
都磨坏了。
Worn out.
什么？
What?
对。
Yep.
有洞。
Holes.
身上有洞。
Holes in them.
是啊。
Yeah.
被蛾子咬出的洞。
Moth holes.
这种事儿吧。
Stuff like that.
有时候会被扯断。
Dismembered sometimes.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
你懂的。
You know?
所以啊，说实话，你拿到的那些木偶，有时候真够吓人的。
And so, I mean, it must be ghastly sometimes, the puppets you get.
你懂的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
不过呢，说到底，它们就是木偶而已。
Well, it's you know, they're just puppets.
但确实，你还是希望艾摩看起来像艾摩。
But, yeah, you kinda want Elmo to look like Elmo.
你可不希望他长得怪里怪气的。
You don't want him to be like No.
这就像是当
It's like when
他里面是空的什么的。
he hollow or something.
那可不行。
God forbid.
但有时候，你得去参加葬礼，而那个人，你知道的，是死于爆炸事故的。
But sometimes, you know, you have to go to a wake, and the person, you know, was in a bomb accident.
你就希望他们看起来还是他们自己。
And you just hope that the they're they look like themselves.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
有时候，你简直就像这些玩偶的遗体整容师。
So and sometimes you are like the mortician for these puppets.
你得让他们看起来得体一点，好让家人看到的是他们本来的样子，而不是被撞得稀巴烂的Snuffleupagus。
You have to make them look presentable so their loved ones see them in the correct state and not like snuffleupagus all bashed.
真的吗？
Really?
真的吗？
Really?
你那儿弄坏了不少东西。
You did some damage there.
遗体整容师，整容医生。
Mortician, plastic surgeon.
是的
Yeah.
我们确实会用针去处理一些泡沫乳胶玩偶。
And we do actually take needles to some of the foam latex puppets.
是的
Yeah.
泡沫乳胶常用于《黑暗水晶》和《迷宫》里的玩偶，但时间久了会干裂。
Foam latex is a lot of the dark crystal labyrinth puppets, and it it sort of dries out over time.
相信我。
Oh, trust me.
我知道。
I know.
我知道。
I know.
所以泡沫会变干，玩偶也就干瘪了。
So the foam kinda dries up and they wither.
这些木偶会干瘪，然后你们就得给它们充气。
These puppets wither, and then you guys have to pump them up.
是的。
Yeah.
天哪。
Oh my god.
有点像木偶的肉毒杆菌注射。
Sort of like puppet Botox.
对。
Yeah.
木偶的肉毒杆菌注射。
Puppet Botox.
我简单提一下这个，因为知道咱们时间不多，但你其实特别喜欢粉丝小说。
Well and I just wanna touch on this briefly because I know we don't have tons of time, but you're also very much into fan fiction.
你超爱《哈利·波特》的同人小说。
You love Harry Potter fan fiction.
真的吗？
Is that right?
所以有时候，深更半夜你一个人和这些玩偶待在一起，紧张得不行，总觉得刚看见什么东西死了。
So sometimes when you're with the puppets late at night and you're trying to calm down because you're nervous, because you're pretty sure you just saw dead.
你刚看见查基在磨刀。
You just saw Chucky sharpening his knife.
这时候你就会去读《哈利·波特》同人小说，那你最喜欢的是哪一对？
When when you're in that situation, sometimes you read Harry Potter fan fiction, and you're a fan of what is it?
Dryonamine？
Dryonamine?
我刚说的是什么？Ron？
Dry what did I say, Ron?
是Dryamony吗？
Is it Dryamony?
Dramione？
Dramione?
哦，抱歉，我刚才念错了。
Dry oh, sorry for mispronouncing that.
对，没错。
Oh, yeah.
你说得对。
You're right.
Dramione。
Dramione.
这个词我们刚才都脱口而出了。
That word we all just spit out.
是的。
Yeah.
不好意思。
I'm sorry.
要是哪天我酒驾被拦下，他们让我念‘dranominee’，我直接就说‘嘿’。
If I'm ever pulled over for a DUI and they ask me to say, dranominee, I'm just gonna say, hey.
直接把我关三十年算了。
Just take me put me away for thirty years.
别提胸口的事了。
Let's not even do the chest.
对。
Yeah.
我经常听有声书和播客，后来就迷上了德国人的同人小说。
I listen to a lot of audio podcasts, audiobooks, and I got into, yeah, Germani fan fiction.
这还只是
And that goes for
一整天都这样。
all day.
当然了，赫敏和……开头那部分叫什么来着？
And Obviously, Hermione and who what's the first part?
德拉科。
Draco.
德拉科。
Draco.
哦，德拉科·马尔福。
Oh, Draco Malfoy.
对。
Mhmm.
你和别人为什么会对这两个人感兴趣？到底是什么吸引着你们？
And why are why are you or anyone else why do you wanna come what is it about those two characters that is particularly appealing?
为什么哈利·波特不在这个组合里？
Like, how come Harry Potter's not in this combo platter?
你知道吗？
Do know
我觉得吧，谁不喜欢坏男孩呢？
what I think because, you know, who doesn't love a bad boy?
德拉科的故事在原著里其实没讲完。
And Draco's story didn't really get finished in the original.
所以啊，看看大家怎么想象角色们在书结尾之后的故事，挺有意思的。
So I'll you know, it's fun to see people's imaginations of where does that go after, you know, the end of the books.
我明白了。
I see.
这些角色长大之后会变成什么样呢？
Do those characters go as they become adults?
我觉得是的。
Do you think that Yeah.
德拉科和赫敏有可能发展出感情吗？
Draco and Hermione could have a love interest?
这就是一些同人小说在探索的内容吗？
Is that what some of this fan fiction's exploring?
这种组合真有可能发生吗？
Does it make love that a couple that could really exist?
赫敏最后跟谁在一起了？他叫什么来着？
I mean, who did Hermione ended up with what what was his name?
赫敏？
Hubblebee?
双倍双倍？
Double double?
罗恩。
Ron.
什么？
What's that?
罗恩。
Ron.
罗恩。
Ron.
哦，罗恩。
Oh, Ron.
好吧。
Okay.
所以
So
雷丁家的。
The Redding.
胡贝尔比？
Bubblebee?
对。
Yes.
我不清楚。
I don't know.
胡贝尔比？
Hubblebee?
好一阵子没见了。
It's been a while.
我知道。
I know.
我只是说一下。
I'm just saying.
我不清楚。
I don't know.
但我明白她是什么意思。
But I I get what she said.
我也喜欢同人小说，那里面出来的东西可太多了。
Because I love fan fiction too, and there's so much stuff that comes out of it.
就是挺好玩的，想象两个角色在一起，还挺有感觉的。
And it's just fun to, like, you know, imagine two characters together, and it's sexy.
所以是德雷克和谁？有没有那种德鲁科和赫敏在一起的同人故事？
So it's Drake so and so oh, is there a fan fiction where where Draco and Hermione get it on?
这种事可能发生吗？
Is that would that something that could happen?
猜一猜吧。
Guessing.
我的意思是，如果他们真的
I mean, if they're
不是的话，那到底怎么回事。
not, what's going Yeah.
我读的第一篇是《米诺cult》，算是《使女的故事》和《哈利·波特》的混搭同人小说。
The first one that I read was Minocult, which is sort of a Handmaid's Tale meets Harry Potter fan fiction.
如果你读过玛格丽特·阿特伍德的《使女的故事》，或者看过剧集，就懂了。
So if you've read Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale or watched the TV show Wait.
就是那种情境。
Sort of that situation.
明白了。
Okay.
嗯，我懂了。
Okay.
我在想象那会是什么样子。
I'm trying to picture this.
是的
Yeah.
你知道吗，真够疯狂的？
You know what's crazy?
你身后，查基刚用手比了个布谷鸟的动作。
Behind you behind you, Chucky just made the cuckoo in his hands.
你快看这个。
Get a load of this.
天哪。
Oh my god.
她又来了。
Here she goes again.
喂。
Hey.
邓布利多，那个巫师，他不是叫邓布利多吗？
Does Drumble does Dumbledore does Dumbledore isn't he the wizard or something?
他不是那个巫师吗？
Doesn't he does he ever wizard.
对啊。
Oh, yeah.
没错。
Right.
但他可是那种真正穿着巫师长袍的首席巫师。
But he's like the head wizard that really dresses like a wizard.
其他人穿得都跟牛津大学的学生似的。
The rest of them dress like they go to, like, Oxford College.
他们一副‘哎呀，我是巫师’的样子。
They're like, oh, look at Oh, I'm a wizard.
真的吗？
Oh, really?
是啊。
Yeah.
因为我穿得跟去普林斯顿上学的一样。
Because I'm dressed like I go to Princeton.
所以他才是那个真把自己当巫师的人。
So to he's like the guy that's committing to I'm a wizard.
你懂的。
You know?
不过你说得对。
But you're right.
是的。
Yeah.
当然了，我没错。
Of course, I'm right.
我今天说的每句话都没错。
I've not said one thing today that's wrong.
对。
Yeah.
你没说错。
You're not wrong.
所以邓布利多有没有可能撞见赫敏和德拉科在一起，然后说：‘这到底怎么回事？’
So does Dumbledore ever walk in on Hermione and and Draco and be like, what the hell is going on here?
这种情节真的会发生吗？
Does that ever happen in these scenarios?
到目前为止，我还没读过任何一篇里面有邓布利多的故事。
So far, I've not read one where Dumbledore is in it at all.
这倒可以是个新题材。
You can see the could be a new one.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
他可不是最帅的角色。
He's not the sexiest character.
邓布利多就看个人喜好了。
Dumbledore depends.
有些人就喜欢这种类型的。
Some people are into that.
我不确定。
I don't know.
好吧。
Okay.
很明显，你就是这种类型。
Well, clearly, you are.
对啊。
Yeah.
没错。
Oh, yeah.
我喜欢他白发苍苍、留着大胡子，穿着长袍的样子。
I like him old and bearded and wearing a a muumuu.
所以人们更希望赫敏最后和德拉科这样有魅力的角色在一起，你知道的，还有发展潜力的那种。
So People prefer to see Hermione end up with, like, you know, a potentially attractive character like Draco with potential
所以，这事儿是以前就有的吗？我是说，这种情况。
So is there is there a I mean, this is before.
大家普遍觉得罗恩就是个平平无奇的人吗？
Is there a consensus that Ron is just sort of a dud?
人们甚至特意改写《哈利·波特》，就是为了不让赫敏和罗恩在一起。
Like, people are actively going out of the way to rewrite Harry Potter so that it's not Hermione and Ron.
罗恩？
Ron?
现在流行的是赫敏和德拉科。
It's Hermione and Draco.
这样才更有意思，对吧？
Like, that's much more exciting.
你不觉得吗？
Don't you think?
是的
Yeah.
我觉得是这样。
I think so.
罗恩。
Ron.
我不是说罗恩不好，但他确实太没存在感了。
I no offense to Ron, but he's a wet noodle.
你知道的。
You know?
是的
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
就是这么回事。
Exactly.
不对。
No.
没错。
Drake's He's no fun.
没错。
He Draco's
我并不是想贬低Ron，但他真的太没主见了。
a bad boy.
你懂的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
完全对。
You can keep saying
完全对。
I'm that because just saying, you you want there to be like a like love.
他们非得这么做不可。
It can't they they gotta they gotta do it.
而且必须得是，他得是那种……
And it has to be And like he's
是恋人关系。
to lovers.
就是这个套路。
It's the thing.
你刚说什么？
What'd you say?
你想要的是救赎线。
You want the redemption arc.
你想要的是宿敌变恋人。
You want the enemies to lovers.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
这才是救赎弧线。
That's the redemption arc.
但罗恩身上不会有这种救赎弧线。
And and you don't get the redemption arc with Ron.
哦。
Oh.
罗恩。
Ron.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what mean?
你是不是因为他是个红发角色，所以有点代入了？
Are you upset because he's like the redhead and you kinda see
这种感觉在故事里也有体现。
it also in it?
那些故事里对红发人的刻画方式。
The way redheads are portrayed in those tales.
那些故事里？
In those tales?
哦，是一群红头发的兄弟。
Oh, it's a bunch of brothers with red hair.
他们后来怎么样了？
What do they do?
我不太清楚。
I don't know.
其中一个被杀了，另外两个也没什么出息。
One of them gets killed, and two of them kind of go nowhere.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know?
你懂我的意思吧？
You know?
他们笨手笨脚的，老是跌跌撞撞。
They're bumbling, stumbling.
他们来自一个特别滑稽的家。
They they come from this goofy house.
没错。
Yes.
所以我才对这些书生气。
That's why I'm mad at these books.
红发的人在感情上完全没用。
So redheads are completely ineffectual lovers.
你懂的。
You know?
真该找个帮手来提点他们。
Talk about needing a fluffer.
我
I
你要是读过不少哈利·波特同人小说，那你说你对哈利·波特了解不多，我可不信。
think you know more about Harry Potter than you're letting on if you've been reading some Harry Potter fan
我确实读过那几本书，但因为里面对红发人的描写，我直接把书烧了。
fiction on the I read those books, and I burned them because of the red haired depiction.
天哪。
Woah.
就是韦斯莱一家。
It's the Weasleys.
喂。
Hey.
咱们该给红发人起个什么名字呢？
What name should we give the redheads?
我想到一个。
Oh, I have it.
就叫韦斯莱一家吧。
The Weasleys.
天哪。
Oh my god.
这简直一团糟。
It's a shit show.
好吧。
Alright.
米迦，我真高兴你的世界里既有木偶也有现实，赫敏最终选了那个金发的反派，而不是那个红发的圣人。
Micah, I'm really happy that your that you've you've got your world involves both puppets and reality where Hermione makes the correct choice, which is the blonde haired evil guy over the red do gooder.
米迦，我向你致敬。
Micah, I salute you.
我觉得我自己就像一个人类木偶，而且我真的就是。
And I think of myself as a human puppet, and I really am.
我的作品被人看的时候，大家都觉得我就是个大块头，有点像斯努弗那样，一个傻乎乎的木偶。
I mean, most people look at my work, and they think you're just a a giant I'm kind of like a snuffle off, I guess, a big goofy puppet.
你觉得呢？
Wouldn't you say?
我觉得更准确地说，你因为那个绳子舞出名，所以我想到的是提线木偶。
I would say more I mean, you're famous for the string dance, so I'm thinking marionette.
你
You
明白吗？
know?
提线木偶。
Marionette.
然后呢。
Then.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错，确实
Well Yeah.
你这么说，我可太受宠若惊了
I, coming from you, that's a big compliment.
是的
Yeah.
你还有个叫特里安姆的木偶
And you have Triumph who was a puppet.
木偶
Puppet.
对
Yeah.
老节目里头 puppet 可真不少。
There's a lot of puppets on the old show.
我知道。
I know.
《贾马里鸵鸟秀》。
Jamari the Ostrich show.
是的。
Yeah.
要是他们需要安家，木偶艺术中心就在这儿。
Well, if they need a home, the Center For Puppetry Arts is here.
我们收留他们。
We'll take them.
是的。
Yeah.
你能想象 Triumph 出现在你们博物馆里吗？
Well, can you imagine Triumph in your museum?
那整个晚上都会是一场灾难。
That would be a disaster all night long.
你太差劲了。
You suck.
你太差劲了。
You suck.
查基，你太差劲了。
Chucky, you suck.
我喜欢笑脸。
I love smiley faces.
红发女。
Redhead.
查基。
Chucky.
又来一个红发女，凑齐了所有刻板印象。
There's another redhead rounding out the stereotypes.
我们那个杀人玩偶就是那个红发女。
Our one murder puppet's the redhead.
嗯，米迦，和你聊天真开心。
Well, Micah, it's a delight to talk to you.
真的特别开心。
It really is.
你看起来是个特别好的人，我很欣赏你做的事。
You seem like a really nice person, and I love what you're doing.
希望有一天能亲自见你一面。
And I hope to meet you in person someday.
那肯定特别有意思。
That'd be fun.
是的。
Yeah.
你该来博物馆看看。
You should come by the the museum.
我们非常欢迎你来。
We'd love to have you.
晚上过来吧。
Come by at night.
在我们婚礼那天。
On our wedding.
不行。
No.
我去拿。
I'll get them.
好。
Yes.
夜场导览。
Night tour.
我带点牛肉汤过来，再带几只罗威纳犬。
We'll bring a little beef broth with me and some rottweilers.
好的。
Okay.
行了，米迦。
Alright, Micah.
我刚威胁了你的那些玩偶。
I just threatened your puppets.
我得赶紧走了。
I better get out of here.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得就停在这里挺好的。
I think we should end on that note.
对。
Yeah.
谢谢。
Thank you.
再见，Micah。
Bye, Micah.
谢谢。
Thank you.
真的很棒。
It was really good.
再见。
Bye.
谢谢大家。
Thanks, y'all.
很高兴认识你们。
Nice to meet you.
康南·奥布莱恩需要一位粉丝，名字叫康南·奥布莱恩、索尼莫夫·塞西安和马特·戈利。
Conan O'Brien needs a fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonimov Sesian, and Matt Gorley.
制作人是我，马特·戈利。
Produced by me, Matt Goreley.
执行制片人：亚当·萨克斯、杰夫·罗斯和刘尼克。
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
背景音乐由吉米·维维诺创作。
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
吉米，你来接一下。
Take it away, Jimmy.
总制片人：亚伦·布莱亚德。
Supervising producer, Aaron Blayard.
艺人制片人：詹妮弗·桑普斯。
Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples.
制片人：肖恩·道尔蒂和丽莎·伯姆。
Associate producers, Sean Dougherty and Lisa Berm.
音频工程由爱德华多·佩雷斯负责。
Engineering by Eduardo Perez.
前往 siriusxm.com/conan 注册，即可免费获得三个月 SiriusXM 服务。
Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan.
请在各大播客平台为《康南·奥布莱恩需要粉丝》评分、评论并订阅。
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are demoed.
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