进步派市长能拯救民主党吗？

本月，当自然·马姆达尼以决定性优势赢得纽约市长竞选时，这场选举受到了密切关注，人们试图理解一位民主社会主义者如何成功动员如此广泛的选民联盟，以及这对全国民主党人可能意味着什么。

When Ziran Mamdani won the New York City mayoral race decisively this month, the contest was closely scrutinized to understand how a democratic socialist managed to pull off the turnout of such a broad coalition of voters and what it might mean for Democrats nationwide.

马姆达尼的崛起也成为了全球现象。

Mamdani's rise has been a global phenomenon too.

这则新闻传遍了欧洲各地。

It made the news across Europe.

是佐兰·马姆达尼，民主派的佐兰·马姆达尼。

It was Zoran Mamdani democratic Zoran Mamdani.

这段音频来自德国公共广播联盟、意大利广播电视公司和法国二十四台的报道。

That was audio from ARD, RAI, and France twenty four networks.

在法国左翼政党'不屈法国'中，像克莱尔·勒热纳这样的进步派政治家将马姆达尼的竞选视为一种激励。

And in France's left wing party called France unbowed, progressive politicians like Claire Lejeune saw Mamdani's campaign as an inspiration.

佐霍和马姆达尼的胜利是一盏希望的明灯。

The victory of, Zoho and Mamdani is a beacon of hope.

这一信息不仅在美国引起共鸣，对我们法国也同样如此。

It's a message echoes not only in The US, but also for us in France.

上周五出现了一位出人意料的支持者——特朗普总统。

And one surprise supporter emerged Friday, president Trump.

在与曼达尼在椭圆形办公室一次意外友好的会面中，总统对他这样说道。

In an unexpectedly friendly meeting with Mamdani in the Oval Office, the president said this to him.

作为纽约市长，尤其是现在，因为我认为你正处于一个真正的转折点，无论朝哪个方向。

Being the mayor of New York and especially now, because I think you're at a really a turning point one way or the other.

它可能变得很棒，也可能走向不同的方向，而我认为你真的有机会让它变得伟大。

It could go great or it can go in a different direction, and I think you really have a chance to make it great.

随着曼达尼的崛起，波士顿市长吴弭也受到了大量关注。

With Mamdani's rise, there's also been a surge of attention on the mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu.

曼达尼称她为美国最高效的民主党人。

Mamdani has called her the most effective democrat in America.

吴弭是波士顿首位女性及首位亚裔市长，本月她以压倒性优势成功连任。

Wu is Boston's first female and first Asian American mayor, and she was reelected this month in a landslide.

想想看。

Consider this.

这么多目光聚焦在这些竞选上，许多人都在问：富有魅力的进步派市长能否拯救民主党？

With so many eyes on these races, many people are asking, can charismatic progressive mayors save the Democratic Party?

以吴市长在波士顿的执政记录为案例研究，结合曼达尼的竞选活动，或许能提供一些启示。

Looking at mayor Wu's record in Boston as a case study along with Mamdani's campaign may offer some insights.

我们前往波士顿，试图更深入了解像吴和曼达尼这样的市长是如何激发选民热情的。

We went to Boston to try to understand more about how mayors like Wu and Mamdani have been energizing voters.

我是NPR的萨莎·普法伊弗。

From NPR, I'm Sasha Pfeiffer.

这里是NPR的《考虑这个》节目。

It's consider this from NPR.

与纽约的齐兰·曼达尼竞选类似，波士顿市长吴弭的竞选活动也关注可负担性问题，特别是住房和交通方面，她的风格注重与选民建立个人联系。

Like Ziran Mamdani's campaign in New York, mayor Michelle Wu's campaigns in Boston have addressed affordability, especially in housing and transportation, and her style has focused on making a personal connection with voters.

我住在波士顿郊区，想评估像吴和曼达尼这样的进步派市长是否能如支持者所相信的那样，成为目前普遍被认为缺乏领导力的民主党未来领导人的成功典范。

I live just outside Boston, and I wanted to gauge whether progressive mayors like Wu and Mamdani could, as their supporters believe, be successful models for future leaders of the Democratic Party now widely viewed as leaderless.

我们已离开红线地铁，到达公园街站。

We have exited the red line onto Park Street Station.

我们已走出地铁站，来到波士顿的波士顿公园。

We've stepped out onto Boston Common.

所以我乘坐地铁系统红线来到波士顿公园，这个城市有着进步政治历史的著名旅游目的地。

So I took the red line on the t, the subway system, to the Boston Common, a famous tourist destination in a city with a history of progressive politics.

近年来，波士顿公园一直存在无家可归者问题。

In recent years, The Common has had a homelessness issue.

吴市长一直在努力为人们提供住房，她还拆除了城市另一处的大型帐篷营地。

Mayor Wu has pushed to get people housed, and she's dismantled a large tent encampment in another part of the city.

一位来自西班牙的游客费尔南多·盖里多对他所见印象深刻。

A visitor from Spain, Fernando Guerido, was impressed by what he saw.

今早我们在城市里散步跑步时，没看到任何无家可归者。

When we walk and we do running by the city this morning, we didn't see any homeless people.

这让我们很惊讶，因为在美国其他城市，比如纽约、旧金山，通常能看到很多无家可归的人。

And that surprised us because in other cities of The States, usually, we saw a lot of homeless people, like in New York, in San Francisco.

但这个问题在波士顿依然存在。

But the issue still exists in Boston.

波士顿的南端区，另一个社区，在某一片区域存在相当严重的问题。

Boston's South End, another neighborhood, has quite a problem in one area.

事实上，有一个Instagram账号专门收集人们在街头注射毒品的照片。

In fact, there is an Instagram account, and it's just a collection of photos of people shooting up on the street.

居民们对社区现状感到非常愤怒，他们认为没有得到市政足够的帮助。

People are really upset about what's happened to their neighborhood, they feel like they're not getting enough help from the city.

而无家可归者往往只是从一个区域转移到另一个区域。

And homeless people often leave one area only to move to another.

在红线几站之外的萨默维尔市，我经过公园长椅时看到一群人，周围堆满了行李袋、背包、外卖盒，还有新出现的物品。

In Summerville, a city a few stops away on the red line, I passed a group of people on a park bench surrounded by bags and backpacks and takeout containers plus something new.

他们附近设有一个废弃针头回收箱。

And near them is a drop box for used needles.

这是市政府对戴维斯广场成为流浪者聚集地的投诉作出的回应，据信许多人是因为无法继续在波士顿露宿才来到这里的。

It was the city's response to complaints that Davis Square has become a congregating spot for homeless people, many of whom are believed to have come here because they no longer can camp out in Boston.

这是一个正在波士顿地区上演的全国性问题。

It's a national problem that is playing out right here in the Boston area.

我在萨默维尔遇到了居民马克和苏珊·鲁宾菲尔德，询问他们对针具回收箱的看法。

I ran into Summerville residents Mark and Susan Rubinfield and asked what they thought of the needle drop box.

认为这是个很好的举措。

Think it's a great thing.

我觉得任何那种，你知道的

I think anything that sort of, you know

是朝着正确方向迈出的一步。

A step in the right direction.

直接迈进去吧。

Step it right in.

但马克表示，当社会问题过于贴近家庭时，人们的理想就会受到考验。

But Mark said when societal problems creep too close to home, people's ideals get tested.

受到考验。

Tested.

这里的一个挑战是，尽管萨默维尔很进步，但当问题触及到自家后院时，很多人会突然觉得，嗯，我不确定是否愿意让这种情况出现在我的后院。

One of the challenges here is that as progressive as Somerville is, when it hits your backyard, you get a lot of, oh, well, all of a sudden, I'm not sure I want that in my backyard.

有一个

There's a

解决国家的无家可归问题需要更多住房。

Solving the nation's homelessness problem requires more housing.

因此吴市长创建了一项税收减免计划，鼓励将办公楼改造成住宅。

So mayor Wu created a tax break program to encourage converting office buildings into residences.

其首个改造项目最近在波士顿市中心开业，房地产经纪人克里斯托弗·帕拉西奥带我参观了一番。

Its first completed conversion recently opened in Downtown Boston, and real estate agent Christopher Palazzo gave me a tour.

很高兴认识你。

Nice to meet you.

克里斯？

Chris?

。

Chris.

萨莎。

Sasha.

很高兴认识你。

Pleasure to meet you.

您先请上楼。

It is a walk up after you.

这里曾是一栋空置的办公楼，现在改造成了15套公寓。

It was an empty office building that's now 15 apartments.

他表示大部分单元已经租出去了。

He says most have been rented out.

你能看到裸露的砖墙、漂亮的大窗户，还有绝佳的城市景观。

You get the exposed brick, beautiful big windows, nice city view.

这是市中心黄金地段，但并非所有人都能负担得起。

It's great downtown real estate, but not affordable for all.

这套单元目前挂牌价是33.5美元。

This unit right here is currently listed for $33.50.

就一间开间？

For a studio?

对于一间单间公寓来说。

For a studio.

而Palazzo方面表示，这至少为缓解城市住房短缺问题做出了些许贡献。

And the Palazzo says it at least makes a small dent in the city's housing shortage.

要知道，任何能逐步改善现状的努力都是值得肯定的。

You know, any little bit that you can, you know, chip away at is is great.

我认为这个项目正在实现这一点。

And I think that this is doing it.

任何时候只要能为房源库存增加供给，都会有所帮助。

You know, any anytime you could add to the inventory, it's gonna help.

我去和市长Michelle Wu讨论了所有这些情况。

I went to talk about all this with mayor Michelle Wu.

我正走进波士顿市政厅，这是一栋建于上世纪六十年代的庞大混凝土建筑。

I'm walking into Boston City It's a big hulking concrete building built in the nineteen sixties.

这种建筑风格被称为粗野主义。

The architectural style is called brutalist.

这是波士顿人又爱又恨的一栋建筑。

It's a building Bostonians love to hate.

它被砖石混凝土的海洋包围着，但市长就在这里，我们正要去和她谈谈。

Surrounded by a sea of brick and concrete, but this is where the mayor is, and we're gonna go talk with her.

我们在市长办公室旁的会议室见到了她。

We met the mayor in a conference room next to her office.

萨沙。

Sasha.

你好。

Hi there.

萨沙。

Sasha.

很高兴见到你。

Nice to meet you.

欢迎。

Welcome.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我们询问是否能在她的办公室里快速录制一些声音，她的回答揭示了她既要处理市政厅内外事务的责任担当。

We asked if we could quickly record some sound in her office, and her answer was a window into the responsibility she's juggling inside and outside City Hall.

-我丈夫和宝宝现在在办公室里，所以没听到尖叫声，不过等会儿结束时我可能会去看看。

-My husband and baby are in the office right now, so I don't hear screaming, but maybe at the end, I will check.

-吴市长还有一个十岁的女儿和两个年幼的儿子。

-Mayor Wu has a 10 old daughter as well as two young sons.

许多波士顿市民钦佩她作为一位多元文化背景的职业母亲。

Many Bostonians admire that she's an ethnically diverse working mom.

他们也认为她具备国家领导人的潜质，但许多人对她提高房产税、高租金、自行车道等在全国范围内引发争议的地方问题感到不满。

They also think she has national leadership potential, but many are upset with her about rising property taxes, high rents, bike lanes, and other local issues playing out nationwide.

我问她，她的执政方式能为全国其他民主党领导人提供什么借鉴。

I asked her what her approach could teach other Democratic leaders across the country.

在政治中，不作为往往更容易。

It is often easier in politics to do nothing.

提出变革方案、权衡利弊并最终决定向前迈进是困难的。

It's hard to propose change, to identify what the trade offs are, and then ultimately to make that decision that we're gonna take a step forward.

这并不意味着我们永远不会重新审视它。

That doesn't mean we don't ever revisit it again.

也不意味着我们第一次就做得完美无缺。

It doesn't mean that we got it perfect and right the first time.

但持续让所有人保持对话，讨论哪些有效、哪些需要改进，正是建立信任的市政职能所在。

But to always continue holding everyone together in the same conversation about what's working and what we need to improve is a function of city government that builds trust.

这在当今世界尤为必要，或许只有按照现实生活和家庭需求的节奏，在地方层面才能实现。

It's much needed in the world right now, and maybe that's only possible to do at the pace of real life and our families' needs at the local level.

考虑到立法机构需要批准你的许多提案，你认为作为市长能实现的目标有多大局限性？

How much do you think are the limits of what you can accomplish as a mayor, given that the legislature has to sign off on a lot of what you wanna do?

我们还受到州、国家乃至全球形势的影响。

We're also surrounded by the context of what's happening at the state and national level and around the world.

即便投入了所有资源，这些外部因素仍对我们地方层面的住房建设和供应能力产生了实际影响。

And that has had a real influence on what we're able to do even with all of the resources that we're pouring into it, housing and housing production at the local level.

在公共交通方面，是的，波士顿市内已有三条免费公交线路对我们的居民开放。

On public transportation, yes, we are at three bus routes that are free in the city of Boston, fare free to our residents.

这些线路已成为乘客量最高的路线。

They have become the highest ridership routes.

它们对我们的经济连通性产生了巨大影响，我们还需要做得更多。

They have made a huge difference in our economic connectivity, and we have to do more.

我们必须加快进度，同时也要真正专注于做出那些能够带来实际改变、让人们切身感受到的艰难决策。

We have to do it faster, but we also have to really focus on making the hard decisions that deliver and can be felt in people's lives.

但其中一些决策超出了你的控制范围，因为需要州立法机构批准。

But some of those decisions are out of your control because the state legislature would have to approve them.

那么你所取得的成就在多大程度上适用于其他面临同样限制的城市呢？

So how applicable are whatever you've been able to accomplish to other cities who have those same limitations?

在应对重大挑战时，资源分配、社区流程、立法程序等各方面都存在持续的博弈

There's always a push and pull of what resources can come to tackle big challenges and what authorities and and community processes and legislative processes have to be accomplished

以及如何为这些项目提供资金。

And how to pay for them.

资金究竟从何而来，尤其是在我们当前所处的这种环境下。

Where the dollars will come from for sure, especially under this environment that we're in.

随着联邦政府对城市资金的削减。

With federal funding cuts to the cities.

面对赤裸裸的攻击，我们不得不诉诸法庭，奋力保住那些社区几十年来赖以维持公共安全、公共教育、住房保障和食品安全的长期拨款。

With outright attacks where we are having to go to court and battle to hold on to long standing grants that communities have relied on for decades for public safety, public education, housing access, food security.

不过，我认为波士顿的例子表明，每一天你依然可以有所作为。

However, I think Boston's example shows that every single day, you can still do something.

可能需要极具创意的方式。

It might have to be really creative.

可能需要启动新项目。

It might have to be a new program.

可能需要引入外部合作伙伴。

It might have to bring in outside partnerships.

司法部已就移民政策问题起诉了波士顿。

The Department of Justice has sued Boston over its immigration policies.

许多人，包括你的支持者，都钦佩你敢于对抗特朗普并捍卫这座城市的方式，但你也必须小心行事，避免让波士顿成为特朗普政府更大的攻击目标。

Many people, many of your supporters admire you for the way you've stood up to Trump and defended the city, but you also have to walk a tightrope by not making Boston more of a target of the Trump administration.

你是如何在这样的钢丝上行走的？

How are you walking that tightrope?

我们地方政府不得不与自己的联邦政府抗争。

We at the local level have to fight against our own federal government.

我一直在与受影响最深的社区成员进行深入交流。

I have been in deep conversations with our most impacted community members.

从我们的移民居民和他们最密切合作的组织那里，我清楚地听到：面对压迫，沉默不是选择。

And what I hear loud and clear from our immigrant residents, from the organizations that they work most closely with, is that silence in the face of oppression is not an option.

但当民主党试图选出新领导人时，有些人对于进步、自由、民主社会主义的观点感到非常兴奋。

But as Democrats try to pick a new leader, some people are very excited by progressive, liberal, democratic socialist views.

另一些人则认为这会让我们变成像委内瑞拉那样的经济崩溃国家。

Other think it's gonna turn us into a collapsed economy like Venezuela.

你如何决定我们该走哪个方向？对于那些想效仿你的其他市长，你会给出什么建议？

How are you trying to decide which direction do we go in and what advice you would give to other mayors who wanna follow your lead?

我在一个移民家庭长大，童年时期对政治一无所知。

I grew up in an immigrant family and didn't know a thing about politics throughout my childhood.

所以我从不执着于特定的标签、专业术语或词汇。

And so I'm not one to ever be too attached to a particular label or term of art or word.

我认为人们现在渴望看到政府重新开始运作。

I think people are hungry right now to see government working again.

在你试图找出如何反击特朗普政府的方法时，我们看到加州州长加文·纽森决定用特朗普的风格——夸张的推文来应对。

As you try to figure out how to push back on the Trump administration, we've seen, for example, California governor Gavin Newsom decide to do it in the style that Trump does it, bombastic tweets.

许多人认为这很有效。

Many people think that's effective.

其他人则认为这很幼稚，降低了政府的格调。

Other people think it's childish and brings government down to a lower level.

你如何找到既能反击又不失尊严的方式？

How are you finding the right way to push back without undignifying the office?

最重要的是直接与居民接触，了解社区需求，并努力成为一个平台，尽可能诚实、真实且有力地为之发声。

The most important thing is to be in direct contact with our residents to understand what our community needs and to try to be a platform to advocate for that as honestly and authentically and forcefully as possible.

有时这可能会招致指责，说我言之过早、态度强硬，或以他人不认同的方式进行了反击。

Sometimes that can lead to charge or an accusation that I spoke too soon or came on too hard or pushed back in a way that someone disagrees with.

但我宁愿因在批评语气或方式上过于激进而受到指责，也不愿沉默无为，坐视危害发生。

But I would rather be accused of charging forward too much with critiques of the tone or manner compared to sitting back silently doing nothing and letting harmful things happen.

此刻正是我们所有人挺身而出、践行正义、建立相互支持的联盟关系之时。

This is a time for all of us to stand up, to do what we know is right, and to build the relationships and coalitions that we have each other's backs.

对于那些希望借鉴您的民主领导经验并应用于其他城市的人，您有什么临别建议？

Parting words of advice for other people who wanna try to learn from your democratic leadership if they they hope it can be applied to other cities?

我想主要有两点。

Well, I guess there'd be two pieces of it.

其一是真相至关重要。

One is the truth matters.

在这个对现实众说纷纭的时代，获取真相的最佳且唯一途径就是深入社区、走上街头，直接倾听居民的声音。

And in a time where there are so many different takes on what reality is, the best and only way to get the truth is to be out in the community, out in the streets, hearing directly from residents.

另一点我想说的是，不要袖手旁观。

And then the other bit, I would say, is don't sit back.

我们都需要保持紧迫感。

We all need to be impatient.

紧迫感。

Impatient.

紧迫感。

Impatient.

每一点拖延和等待他人来解决问题，或者想着也许我们还能再忍受现状多一会儿。

Every bit of delay and waiting for someone else to come in and fix something or, you know, maybe we can just tolerate the situation a little bit longer.

正是这种做法导致了信任与连接的崩塌。

This is what has led to such a breakdown in trust and connection.

我们必须逐街区、逐机构、逐城市地重建这些联系。

We have to build that back up block by block, institution by institution, city by city.

这就是为什么我相信地方政府和我们的地方社区将始终是引领方向的主力军。

That's why I believe local government and our local communities will always be the ones leading the way.

吴弭市长，感谢您抽空接受采访。

Mayor Michelle Wu, thank you for your time.

谢谢。

Thank you.

会议室采访结束后，我们简短参观了她的办公室，惊讶地发现里面有一架立式钢琴。

After our conference room interview, we briefly visited her office, and we were surprised to see an upright piano.

这是我宣泄情绪的渠道

It is how I channel

那些源于我职责的纷繁感受

my many feelings that can come from what I have

以及我所经历的种种体验。

to do and the experiences that I get to have.

从钢琴上的乐谱就能看出今天过得如何。

You can tell what kind of a day it has been by what music is on the piano.

离开市政厅后，我们乘坐了该市三条免费公交线路之一。

After leaving city hall, we rode one of the city's three free bus routes.

市政府表示超过半数乘客属于低收入群体。

The city says more than half its riders are low income.

所以我们的23路公交车四分钟后会在四叶站停靠。

So our bus number 23 lives in four leaves in four minutes.

一位乘客，东北大学学生普拉穆克豪希克表示他经常乘坐，并且很感激能省下这笔钱。

One rider, Northeastern University student Pramukhaushik, says he rides it often and appreciates the money he saves.

哦，那真的非常非常有帮助。

Oh, that's really, really helpful.

这对我的钱包非常友好。

It's very good for for my pockets.

作为国际学生，我们确实背负着很多贷款之类的，所以不用支付交通费对我们是最有利的事情之一。

Being an international student, we do come with a lot of loans and stuff, so not paying for transport, it's one of the most beneficial thing for us.

车上另一位学生哈什特·班达里对政府提供免费服务持保留态度。

Another student on the bus, Harshit Bandhari, has reservations about the government providing services for free.

我不认为这是个好主意，因为人们会产生依赖，这会变成他们的常规习惯。

I don't think it's a good idea because people are gonna be dependent, and it's gonna be, like, a norm norm to them.

这条公交线路只有四英里长，但在下午高峰时段从起点到终点却花了将近一小时。

The bus route is only four miles, but it took almost an hour to go from beginning to end during afternoon traffic.

后排的两个小孩在到达终点站时已经打起了呼噜。

Two little kids in the back were snoring by the time they reached their last stop.

这辆公交车是波士顿工薪阶层生活的一个缩影。

This bus is a glimpse of working class life in Boston.

它展示了为何可负担性的信息能引起选民共鸣，以及为何民主党人专注于降低生活成本可能成为该党的未来方向。

It shows why the affordability message resonates with voters and why Democrats focused on lowering costs could be the future of their party.

这其中包括米歇尔·吴、齐兰·曼达尼以及西雅图新当选的进步派市长凯蒂·威尔逊。

That includes Michelle Wu, Ziran Mamdani, and Seattle's progressive mayor elect, Katie Wilson.

但他们的想法成本高昂且面临强烈反对。

But their ideas are expensive and face strong opposition.

正如我们在公交车上听到的，即使在开明的波士顿，也有人认为过多的政府补贴是个问题。

And as we heard on the bus, even in liberal Boston, some people say too many government subsidies are a problematic thing.

另一位作家大卫·兰普金斯表示，没有哪个单一的政治人物，无论是米歇尔·吴还是其他人，能成为救世主。

Another writer, David Lumpkins, said no single politician, Michelle Wu or otherwise, can be a savior.

我不太确定她是否为未来的民主党人铺平了道路。

I'm not so sure if she's paving the way for future Democrats.

我认为她已经尽力而为了。

I think she's doing the best she can.

她正在自己能力范围内竭尽所能。

She's doing everything under her own power that's within her control.

吴市长告诉我们她更看重行动而非完美。

Mayor Wu told us she emphasizes action over perfection.

她说她在本地能力范围内推进改革，同时期待全国层面的变革。

She said she's accomplishing what she can locally while hoping for national change.

在纽约，唐尼妈妈表示愿意与任何能帮助改善城市生活成本的人合作。

In New York, mom Donnie says he's willing to work with anyone who can help make life affordable in his city.

我们听到的是，尽管公众对政府感到极度失望，但即使进步派市长只取得有限成功，他们的小举措仍能引起共鸣，他们与选民沟通并理解其关切的能力正带来重大胜利，并引起了白宫的兴趣。

What we heard is that as the public feels so despondent about government, even if progressive mayors are having only limited success, their small moves are resonating, and their ability to connect with voters and understand their concerns is giving them big wins and generating interest from the West Wing.

本期节目由乔丹·玛丽·史密斯和亨利·拉尔森制作。

This episode was produced by Jordan Marie Smith and Henry Larson.

由莎拉·罗宾斯编辑。

It was edited by Sarah Robbins.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·叶尼根。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

这里是NPR的《Consider This》节目。

It's Consider This from NPR.

我是萨莎·普法伊弗。

I'm Sasha Pfeiffer.