报道明尼阿波利斯的冰潮涌动

这里是NPR新闻的《综合所有新闻》。

It's All Things Considered from NPR News.

我是艾米莉·昆ong。

I'm Emily Kwong.

在这里生活的同时又在这里做报道，真是一段非常强烈的经验。

It's been a really intense experience to be living here and then also reporting here.

这是来自NPR国家新闻组、常驻明尼阿波利斯的记者梅格·安德森。在过去两个月里，特朗普政府大规模的移民行动在该地引发了社区居民与联邦移民官员之间暴力甚至致命的冲突。

That is Meg Anderson, a correspondent for NPR's National Desk based in Minneapolis, where for two months, the Trump administration's sweeping immigration campaign has resulted in violent, sometimes deadly confrontations between community members and federal immigration agents.

雷妮·麦金利·古德就在一个普通的居民区被杀害了。

Renee Macklin Goode was killed in just a residential neighborhood.

我一看到视频，就立刻知道事发地点在哪里。

I knew exactly where it was as soon as I saw the videos.

亚历克斯·普迪迪的情况也一样，他被杀害的地方是一条非常热闹的街道。

And same with Alex Priddy, like that where he was killed is just this, like, really vibrant street.

那就是尼科莱特大道。

It's it's Nicollet Avenue.

人们称它为‘美食街’。

People call it Eat Street.

那里有很多非常棒的餐厅。

There's tons of really good restaurants.

其中大多数或许多都是移民经营的。

Most of them or many of them are immigrant owned.

当你看这些视频时，你会觉得有一种很奇怪的感觉：你对这个地方如此熟悉，却目睹了这些可怕的事件发生。

And you watch the videos and you're like, there's a really weird element there of being really familiar with a place and then seeing these things these horrible things happen.

对梅格来说，明尼阿波利斯的生活看起来很正常，直到它不再正常。

For Meg, life looks normal in Minneapolis until it doesn't.

昨晚，我去了一位朋友家。

Last night, I went to a friend's house.

我买了外带食物给我们。

I picked up takeout for us.

我去了一家店买卷饼。

I went to a place to get burritos.

我们下了外带订单，到了之后，发现外面有人站岗。

We did a pickup order, and you go there, and it's like there are people standing guard outside.

你进不去。

You can't enter.

门是锁着的。

It's locked.

他们用对讲机内部联系了一下。

They kind of radio in on a walkie talkie.

你要报出自己的身份和所点的餐品。

You're you're who you are and what you ordered.

他们把餐送出来给你。

They bring it out to you.

然后你就回到车上。

Then And you go back to your car.

之后我就继续前往朋友家了。

And then I kind of went on my way to my friend's house.

这种正常与不寻常的混合对她来说很困难。

This blend of the normal with the not so normal has been difficult for her.

后来有一次，她在报道抗议活动时被催泪瓦斯袭击了。

And then there was a time she was tear gassed while covering a protest.

我还好。

I was okay.

我当时离得挺远的，没什么事。

I was I was pretty far back, and it was it was fine.

但只是觉得挺奇怪的，经历了那种事之后，还得回家洗澡、洗衣服。

But it was just weird to, like, have that happen and go home and, you know, have to shower and wash my clothes.

然后我们做了晚饭，你知道的，当时就想着，好吧，还能怎么办呢

And then, like, we made dinner, you know, and it was kinda like, well, what

我们还能做什么呢？

else are we gonna do?

想想看，当一名国家记者报道的是一场他自己也在亲身经历的事件时，这份工作就变了。

Consider this, when a national reporter is covering a story they're also living through, the job changes.

接下来，梅格·安德森将讲述她报道明尼阿波利斯联邦移民官员激增的情况，这是她称之为家的城市。

Coming up, Meg Anderson on reporting on the surge of federal immigration agents in Minneapolis, the city she calls home.

来自NPR，我是艾米莉·昆ong。

From NPR, I'm Emily Kwong.

这条信息来自Wise，一款专为全球使用资金的国际人士设计的应用。

This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe.

您只需轻点几下，即可发送、消费和接收多达40种货币。

You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps.

聪明一点。

Be smart.

使用Wise。

Get Wise.

立即下载Wise应用，或访问wise.com。

Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com.

条款和条件适用。

Ts and cs apply.

本信息由TED Talks Daily提供，这是TED的播客。

This message comes from TED Talks Daily, the podcast from TED.

你是否好奇该如何自我介绍才能真正获得录用？或者为什么人们开始说话像ChatGPT？

Curious how to introduce yourself so you actually get hired or why people are starting to sound like ChatGPT?

总有一场TED演讲能解答这个问题。

There's a TED Talk for that.

在你收听播客的任何平台，都可以收听TED Talks Daily。

Listen to TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts.

在《Wait Wait Don't Tell Me》节目中，重要的不是我们能和名人交谈。

On Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, it's not so much we get to talk to celebrities.

而是我们可以和名人聊其他名人，就像我们和演员内森·莱恩聊的那样。

It's that we get to talk to celebrities about other celebrities like we did with actor Nathan Lane.

我记得不得不告诉乔治·C.

I remember having to tell George C.

斯科特我要离开节目去演这部音乐剧。

Scott that I was leaving the show to do this musical.

他跟我说：‘你要离开我去做一场魔术表演？’

And he said to me, you're leaving me to do a magic show?

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《Wait Wait》。

Listen to Wait Wait in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是来自NPR的《Consider This》。

It's consider this from NPR.

NPR记者梅格·安德森多年来一直居住在明尼阿波利斯。

NPR correspondent Meg Anderson has called Minneapolis home for several years.

今年早些时候，当数千名移民官员抵达这座城市时，她不得不调整自己的报道方式，因为这一重大事件突然让她的熟悉环境变得陌生了许多。

And when thousands of immigration agents arrived in the city earlier this winter, she had to adapt to reporting on a major story that had all of a sudden made her familiar surroundings in many ways unfamiliar.

当我们本周坐下来进行记者手记的对话时，我想和梅格聊聊，报道发生在自己社区的这一事件是什么感觉。

When we sat down for this week's reporter's notebook, I wanted to talk to Meg about what it's like to cover this story unfolding in her own community.

我认为这是一种非常强烈的情感消耗。

I think it is a level of emotional drain that is really intense.

但同时，我在这里所经历的，也正是本地记者们所经历的。

But then also, like, what I'm experiencing here is the experience that, like, local reporters have.

对吧？

Right?

这其实就是本地记者的定义——报道你自己的社区。

Like, this is, like, the definition of being a local reporter is that you're reporting on your own community.

当发生非常糟糕的事情时，那正是你自己的社区。

And when really bad things happen, like, it's your own community.

所以我想承认这一点，这里确实有非常出色的本地报道在发生。

So I wanna, like, acknowledge that, and there's been really amazing local reporting happening here.

哇。

Wow.

我也觉得，还有一种担忧，就是担心全国的关注点某天会转移。

And I do think like, there's also an element of like, worrying or feeling like the national spotlight is gonna drift away at some point.

最近我一直在思考这个问题，比如去年德克萨斯州那场可怕的洪水，或者加州的野火，还有其他那些彻底改变人们生活的重大灾难，往往在国家媒体离开后，故事还在继续。

And I've been thinking a lot about that lately, how, you know, you think about, like, those really awful floods that happened in Texas last year or California wildfires or, you know, any of these huge disasters that, like, upend a person's life, often, they go on after the national media goes away.

我担心，也能感受到这里可能会发生类似的情况——人们的生活将被永久改变。

I worry, and I can feel how that might happen here where it's like, oh, but, like, people's lives here are gonna be changed Forever.

真的很久。

For a really Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

永远。

Forever.

很长一段时间。

For a really long time.

听你谈论并思考这个问题真的很有趣，因为确实如此。

Really interesting thing to hear you talk about and grapple with because right.

我们 NPR 的工作是做全国性的报道。

I we at NPR, we are national reporters in what we do.

你经常在你不居住的地方报道刑事司法问题。

You cover criminal justice issues in places where you don't live all the time.

但有时候我们称之为伞降式新闻。

But because and we sometimes call that parachute journalism.

有时候我们 просто称之为新闻报道。

Sometimes we just call that journalism.

但你实际上正在经历一种作为地方记者为全国性媒体工作的体验，对吧？

But, you are having this experience of of right, of being a local reporter in a way for a national outlet.

这种经历是如何改变你对这份工作的态度的呢？

How has that changed your approach to your job itself, this experience?

比如，我认为我在与人交谈时的方式——那些会告诉我他们被移民局盘问、被拘留，或他们如何待在家里的经历的人——

Like, I think the way that I approach talking with people, right, who are gonna tell me about something that directly happened to them, about them being approached by ICE or detained or how they're staying at home or whatever.

我始终秉持着同样的理念，那就是对人们保持温柔，花时间与他们相处。

Like, I think I'm approaching all of that with the same philosophies that I always have, you know, of just being really gentle with people and spending time with them.

但我确实觉得，这其中有一种共鸣在发生，对吧？

But I do think there's like a level of, like commiseration that's happening, right?

因为我也住在这里。

Where I'm like, yeah, I live here too.

我理解，对吧？

I understand, right?

是的，我就住在那里。

Yep, I live right over there.

或者我非常清楚你所说的那个地方。

Or I know exactly the place that you're talking about.

或者，是的，我朋友也遇到过同样的事。

Or, yeah, that happened to a friend of mine too.

这让我在采访他人时的交流方式显得更加贴近现实。

That has felt much more present in the way that I'm talking with people when I'm interviewing them.

当你透露‘我也住在这里’时，这如何改变了抗议者或社区活动家等受访者对你的反应？

How has that changed how protesters or community activists, people you interview responded to you when you reveal that, hey, I live here too?

但有些人，我觉得这让他们感到更放松，只是说：哦，是啊。

But some people, I think it has created a little bit more of a sense of ease to just be like, oh, yeah.

好的。

Okay.

你住在这里。

You live here.

就像，哦，你懂的。

Like, oh, you get it.

但我觉得还有一些人，我注意到，因为我在雷妮·古德被枪击现场，就在事件发生两小时后。

But then I think there are other people, like, I have noticed, you know, because I was at the site where Renee Goode was shot, like, two hours after it happened.

在过去一个月里，我看到人们对待媒体变得更加谨慎。

And I have watched over the last month, like, people become more guarded with the media.

我觉得人们感到害怕和不安。

Oh, I think people are scared and freaked out.

而且你知道，随着我们看到更多关于人脸识别技术的报道，或者有一些传言——我不知道这些传言是否属实——比如ICE渗透了Signal聊天群，或者未来会更加关注Signal聊天内容，你能感觉到人们变得越来越封闭，实际上不想和你说话，或者能不能匿名和你聊？

And you know, as we see more reporting about like facial recognition technology, or there are, you know, rumors that I believe still are, I don't know if they're founded or not, if there's reporting on this, but like, ice infiltrating signal chats, right, or that there's gonna be more focus on signal chats and things like you can feel people kind of becoming a little more insulated and a little, like, actually, I don't wanna talk to you, or can I talk to you anonymously?

政府似乎已经转向了。

The administration has seemed to pivot.

一周多前，他们将边境巡逻队现场负责人格雷戈里·博维诺换成了白宫移民事务特使汤姆·霍曼。

A little more than a week ago, they swapped out border patrol field leader Gregory Bovino for the White House immigration czar Tom Homan.

周三，霍曼减少了明尼阿波利斯的移民执法人员数量，撤走了700人，前提是州和地方官员同意配合，移交被捕的移民。

And on Wednesday, Homan reduced the number of immigration officers in Minneapolis removing 700 of them after state and local officials agreed to cooperate by turning over arrested immigrants.

梅格，我们现在谈话时，这改变了实地的情况吗？

Meg, as we talk now, has this changed the situation on the ground?

我认为现在下结论还为时过早。

I think it is too early to say.

我从社区里的人那里听到的是：没有。

What I'm hearing from people in the community is, nope.

就像，一切都还没有变化。

Like, nothing is different yet.

哇。

Wow.

联邦特工仍然在街头游荡。

There are still federal agents kind of roaming the streets.

观察者和这些联邦特工之间仍然存在紧张的对峙。

There are still kind of these very tense clashes between observers and these federal agents.

我认为另一个重要的背景是，从去年12月开始的增派行动大约有2000名联邦特工来到明尼苏达州。

Another thing I think is important context is so the surge that started at the December was about 2,000 federal agents coming to Minnesota.

然后，在雷妮·麦金利·古德被枪杀后，他们将人数增加到了3000人。

Then, after Renee Macklin Good was shot, they escalated that number to 3,000.

他们又增派了一千名特工。

They added a thousand agents.

所以，我认为这里重要的背景是，本周宣布的撤军行动，其实只是从一次升级中稍微退了一步。

And then so really, like, I think important context here is that this this drawdown that was announced this week is still it's it's like a de escalation from an escalation.

对吧？

Right?

目前地面上的联邦特工人数，仍然比古德被杀前要多。

That they there's still more federal agents on the ground than there were before goods killing.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这算是从高度紧张状态中后退了一步，但并没有回到原来的数量。

And so It's a step back from what is a heightened It's a step back, but it's, like, not there's still there's as many as there were.

比十二月骚乱初期的特工人数还要多。

There's more than there were than at the very beginning of the surge at the December.

汤姆·霍曼的言辞确实比他的前任格雷戈里·博维诺要平静得多。

Tom Homan's rhetoric is more calm for sure than, like, Gregory Bovino, who was in charge before him.

但我觉得现在就说这是否会为当地居民带来真正的改变，还为时过早。

But it isn't, it's it feels way too early, I think, to say if it's gonna cause any sort of real change for the people living here.

梅格，这种情况还没有结束。

Meg, like, this situation is not over.

但即便如此，你在这一个月的报道中汲取了哪些经验，会带到你远在他乡的报道中去呢？

But even so, like, what lessons from this month of reporting will you take with you on stories that you report far from home?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我本来以为自己早就明白这一点了，但我也偶尔会做个‘空降记者’。

I mean, I like to think that I knew this already, but I am one of the parachuting in reporters sometimes.

对吧？

Right?

我只是想说，我确实早就知道这一点，但这次又一次提醒了我：当你去到一个地方做报道时，那些事对当地人的影响是如此深刻、如此鲜活，而当你回到家里写报道时，这些影响并不会随之消失。你在那里可能只待了一周、几天，或者更短，但你必须不断提醒自己：那些人依然在经历着这一切。

And I just want I I do think I already knew this, but it's just like this continued reminder of, like, when you go to a place and you report, it is, like, happening so deeply to the people that you are reporting on, and it is so vivid and that it and it doesn't go away when you go back home and write your stories and you're there for, you know, a week or a couple of days or whatever, like, just continuing to remember, like, it's still happening to those people.

这正是他们生活的核心。

It is, like, at the very, very center of their lives.

我想我之前就知道这一点，但现在这种感受更加鲜明了。

And I do think I knew that, but I think it's just that much more vivid now.

是的。

Yeah.

我们非常感谢您的报道和您所做的一切，谢谢您。

Well, we really appreciate your reporting and everything you're doing, and thank you for it.

对的。

Yeah.

不客气。

Well, you're welcome.

也谢谢您邀请我来讨论这个话题。

And thank you for thanks for having me on and to talk about it.

本集节目由莉娜·穆罕默德和马特·奥祖克制作。

This episode was produced by Lina Muhammad and Matt Ozuk.

本集由亚当·雷尼剪辑。

It was edited by Adam Rainey.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·叶尼根。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

这是《就此而言》。

It's Consider This.

我是艾米莉·奎ong。

I'm Emily Kwong.

委内瑞拉、伊朗、格陵兰。

Venezuela, Iran, Greenland.

世界大事瞬息万变。

World events move quickly.

通过NPR的《世界现状》来理解这些事件。

Make sense of them with State of the World from NPR.

我们每天工作日都会在几分钟内为您带来全球实地报道。

We bring you on the ground reporting from around the globe in just a few minutes every weekday.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《世界现状》。

Listen to State of the World on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

阿基拉·谢里尔斯记得1992年那天，他所在沃茨社区的血帮和瘸帮达成停火协议。

Akilah Sherrills remembers the day in 1992 when the Bloods and Crips gangs in his Watts neighborhood agreed to a ceasefire.

我们举办了一场烧烤派对。

We had a barbecue.

那感觉就像一场家庭聚会。

It it was like it became a family reunion.

我的意思是，这可是持续了三十年的战争啊，你知道的？

I mean, had a three decade war, You know?

所以，这种释放简直非同寻常。

So the release was just extraordinary.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《TED播客》。

Listen to the Ted Radio Hour on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.