杰西·杰克逊牧师如何改变了美国政治

2008年11月4日，一位67岁的牧师站在芝加哥公园里成千上万的人群中，泪流满面。

On 11/04/2008, a 67 year old preacher stood in a massive crowd in a park in Chicago and wept.

你好，芝加哥。

Hello, Chicago.

美国刚刚选举巴尔克·奥巴马为其历史上首位黑人总统。

America had just elected Barack Obama as its first black president.

这意义重大。

That was a big deal.

我真希望马丁·路德·金博士或玛丽·甘巴能在那里停留三十秒，亲眼看看他们辛勤耕耘的成果。

And and I wish that doctor King or Mary Gamba could have been there just for thirty seconds to see the fruit of their labors.

我想到他们，就忍不住流泪了。

And I thought about them, I just wept.

那是喜悦的泪水。

It was tears of joy.

这位牧师，杰西·杰克逊牧师，不仅仅是在见证历史。

That preacher, the reverend Jesse Jackson, wasn't just witnessing history.

他为这一切铺平了道路。

He had paved the way for it.

在南卡罗来纳州种族隔离的童年之后，杰克逊加入了民权运动。

After a childhood in segregated South Carolina, Jackson joined the civil rights movement.

他成为马丁·路德·金的门徒。

He became a protege of Martin Luther King Junior.

他亲眼目睹了1968年在孟菲斯发生的刺杀事件。

He witnessed his assassination in Memphis in 1968.

你根本听不出那是枪声。

You couldn't tell it was a shot.

你没听到枪声吗？

You didn't get a shot?

没有。

No.

直到子弹击中他的脸。

Until it hit his face.

听起来就像一根炸药放在一个大鞭炮上一样。

It sounded like a a stick of dynamite on a large firecracker.

金博士去世后，杰克逊自己也成为民权运动中的重要人物。

After King's death, Jackson went on to become a giant in the civil rights movement in his own right.

他通过彩虹联盟，努力团结所有种族的贫困和工薪阶层美国人，为经济赋权而斗争。

With his rainbow push coalition, he worked to unite poor and working class Americans of all races in a fight for economic empowerment.

你可以在他的脱口秀专辑《乡村牧师》中听到他标志性的口号。

You can hear it in his signature chant heard here on his spoken word album, the country preacher.

我可能没受过什么教育。

I may be uneducated.

我可能没受过什么教育。

I may be uneducated.

但我确实有。

But I am.

没错。

Right.

有人。

Somebody.

有人。

Somebody.

我可能在监狱里。

I may be in jail.

我可能在监狱里。

I may be in jail.

但我确实如此。

But I am.

对。

Right.

有人。

Somebody.

有人。

Somebody.

杰克逊试图将这一联盟用于自己竞选公职。

Jackson tried to harness that coalition for his own run for office.

在1984年和1988年，杰克逊两次寻求民主党总统候选人提名。

In 1984 and again in 1988, Jackson sought the Democratic presidential nomination.

他两次都失败了，但在1988年，他赢得了多个州的初选，获得了大约七百万张选票，接近总票数的三分之一。

He lost both times, but in 1988, he won multiple state primaries and some 7,000,000 votes, nearly a third of the ballots cast.

他在那年民主党全国代表大会上的演讲，将美国描绘成他祖母的拼布被子。

His speech at that year's Democratic National Convention imagined America as his grandmother's patchwork quilt.

她用旧布料、补丁、羊毛、丝绸、麻袋布，只用这些补丁。

She took pieces of old cloth, patches, wool, silk, dabberdeen, croaker sack, only patches.

勉强够用来擦鞋。

Barely good enough to wipe off her shoes with.

但它们并没有长时间保持原样。

But they didn't stay that way very long.

她用结实的手和坚韧的线，把它们缝合成一条被子，一件美丽、有力且富有文化意义的作品。

With sturdy hands and a strong cord, she sewed them together into a quilt, a thing of beauty and power and culture.

杰克逊认为，争取更美好的未来需要的不仅仅是任何一个群体的努力。

The fight for a better future would take more than any one group, Jackson argued.

农民们，你们追求公平的价格，这是对的，但你们不能孤军奋战。

Farmers, you seek fair prices and you're right, but you cannot stand alone.

你们的那块布料不够大。

Your patch is not big enough.

他说，当它们被一条共同的线缝合在一起时，就变得更强大了。

Bound together by a common thread, he said, they were more powerful.

黑人和西班牙裔，当我们为民权而战时，我们是对的，但我们的那块布料不够大。

Blacks and Hispanics, when we fight for civil rights, we are right, but our patch is not big enough.

同性恋者和女同性恋者，当你们为反对歧视和寻找艾滋病治愈方法而战时，你们是对的，但你们的那块布料

Gays and lesbians, when you fight against discrimination and a cure for AIDS, you are right, but your patch

这一信息从未将杰西·杰克逊送入白宫。

That message never took Jesse Jackson to the White House.

但二十年后，它在芝加哥的那场胜利演讲中再次回响。

But twenty years later, it would echo on in that victory speech in Chicago.

重拾美国梦，重申这一基本真理：合众为一。

To reclaim the American dream and reaffirm that fundamental truth that out of many we are one.

只要我们尚存呼吸，便心怀希望。

That while we breathe, we hope.

当面对冷漠与怀疑，当有人告诉我们不可能时，我们将以那句永恒的信条回应，它凝聚了整个民族的精神。

And where we are met with cynicism and doubt and those who tell us that we can't, we will respond with that timeless creed that sums up the spirit of a people.

是的。

Yes.

我们做得到。

We can.

谢谢。

Thank you.

上帝保佑你们。

God bless you.

请想一想。

Consider this.

杰西·杰克逊牧师以84岁高龄去世。

Reverend Jesse Jackson has died at age 84.

他对美国政治的影响历久弥新。

His imprint on American politics endures.

来自NPR，我是斯科特·德特罗。

From NPR, I'm Scott Dettrow.

你生活中有没有一个熟人，你希望能发展成真正的朋友？

Is there an acquaintance in your life that you'd love to turn into an actual friend?

你有没有想过说：嘿，咱们找个时间聚一聚？

And have you thought about saying, hey, we should hang out sometime?

也许你该再想想。

Maybe think again.

你越具体，你们真正约上见面的可能性就越大。

The more specific you are, the more likely it is that you're actually gonna get together.

拿出你的日历，选个时间，定好一起做什么，然后真正付诸行动。

You know, pull out your calendar, pick a time, pick a thing to do together, and actually follow through.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《Life Kit》播客。

Listen to the Life Kit podcast in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是来自NPR的《Consider This》。

It's consider this from NPR.

杰西·杰克逊是非裔美国人的开拓性人物。

Jesse Jackson was a trailblazing figure for black Americans.

他还对塑造今天我们所熟知的民主党起到了重要作用，CNN的艾比·菲利普在她的著作《被推迟的梦想》中对此进行了探讨。

He also played a big role in shaping the democratic party that we know today, which CNN's Abby Phillip explores in her book, a dream deferred.

我与她讨论了杰克逊的政治遗产。

I talked to her about Jackson's political legacy.

今天我阅读了大量关于杰克逊牧师的讣告和文章，其中《纽约时报》的一篇讣告里有一句话让我印象深刻，我想听听你对这种说法的看法。

I've been taking in a lot of the obituaries and articles about reverend Jackson today, and there was one sentence in the New York Times obit that stuck with me, and I was wondering what you make of this framing.

本质上，杰西·杰克逊是马丁·路德·金和巴拉克·奥巴马之间最具影响力的非裔人物。

Essentially, Jesse Jackson was the most influential black figure in the years between Martin Luther King junior and Barack Obama.

你觉得这样看待他合适吗？

You think that's the right way to think about it?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这个说法非常准确。

I think that is very much an accurate statement.

在许多方面，杰西·杰克逊是金博士和巴拉克·奥巴马之间的桥梁。

And in many ways, Jesse Jackson was the bridge between reverend King and Barack Obama.

他影响了文化、商业、政治和国际事务。

And he was someone who influenced culture, business, politics, international affairs.

你真的很难再找到另一位黑人领袖，在他所处的年代拥有如此广泛的影响力。

And you really can't think of another black figure who had the reach that Jesse Jackson did for the time that he did.

几十年来，他一直是美国最知名的人物之一。

And he was, for decades, one of the most well known people.

别说黑人领袖了，他就是美国最知名的人物之一。

Forget black figures, but one of the most well known people in America.

你知道，他试图接过马丁·路德·金的衣钵，但他的失败和缺陷比金博士的更加显而易见。

You know, he tries to pick up Martin Luther King's mantle, and his failings, his flaws are on much more display than King's ever were.

他两次竞选总统。

He runs for president two times.

他未能成功。

He comes up short.

但他仍然积累了如此巨大的影响力。

And yet he still amassed all this power.

那么，该如何理解杰西·杰克逊的权力来源呢？

Like, what's the best way to think about where Jesse Jackson's power came from?

这种权力来自于他吸引人们注意力的能力。

Well, that power came from his ability to capture people's attention.

他是注意力经济的大师。

He was a master of the attention economy.

那是互联网和有线新闻出现之前的时代。

This is before the Internet, before cable news.

他比几乎任何人都更懂得如何让所有摄像机时刻对准他，让整个国家几乎都关注他的言论，这成为他在过去六十年里最主要的超能力。

He knew better than almost anyone else how to get all cameras on him at all times and to get the entire nation practically tuned into his message, and that became his superpower for much of the last sixty years.

是什么吸引你去报道和撰写关于杰西·杰克逊的故事，尤其是他1984年和1988年的总统竞选？

What drew you to reporting and writing about Jesse Jackson's story, particularly those 1984 and 1988 presidential runs?

这些竞选活动是最有趣却最不为人所知的竞选之一。

Those campaigns are some of the most interesting but little known campaigns.

但当你稍微深入探究一下，仔细看看当年初选中发生的事情，特别是杰西·杰克逊在那几年如何改变他的政党时，你就会发现这些竞选的远见卓识。

But when you look under the hood a little bit and you look a little bit more deeply at what happened in the primary, and particularly Jesse Jackson's role in changing his party in those years, what you start to see is the prescience of those campaigns.

杰西·杰克逊所倡导的许多理念、他谈论的话题、那种政治风格——进步的民粹主义——在当时都超前于时代。

So much of what Jesse Jackson was running on, the things that he was talking about, the type of politics, the progressive populism, So many of those things were before his time.

他谈论的问题包括全民医疗、贫困、饥饿、农民，甚至‘美国优先’这个概念——他认为美国应该把更多的时间、资源和财富投入到国内，而不是国际事务上。

He was talking about issues like universal health care, poverty, hunger, farmers, even this idea of America first, of the fact that he argued that America should spend way more time and resources and way more of its treasure domestically than it did internationally.

这些主题不仅在几十年后被民主党候选人采纳，也被一位共和党候选人采纳，尤其是唐纳德·特朗普。

And those themes not only became themes that were picked up by Democratic candidates decades later, but also by a Republican candidate, in particular, by Donald Trump.

我认为，我们目前正处在这种政治形态的顶峰，因此理解他的遗产比以往任何时候都更重要。

And I think that we are in a sort of high watermark for that kind of politics right now, and that's why understanding his legacy matters more than ever.

你对这些问题的看法非常正确。

You're so right about the issues.

你知道的。

You know?

感觉人们简化的看法是，杰西·杰克逊在那些竞选中代表了自由派的极端，但你仔细一看，就会发现这些观点如今正是主流政治的核心。

It's like, feel like the shorthand is Jesse Jackson was kind of this liberal end of of the spectrum in those races, and you look, and it's like, all of this is is exactly what mainstream politics is these days.

你在书中提到，他还彻底拆解了提名程序的运作机制，为未来的 outsider 候选人打开了大门。

You write in your book about the way that he also cracked open the the the nuts and bolts of the nominating process in a way that opened up future primaries to outsider candidates.

你认为他的演说具体是如何影响政治的？

How do you think specifically his oratory affected politics?

你知道，人们记得他那些气势恢宏的党代会演讲，但那些演讲发生时，他的政党最终却以压倒性劣势落败。

You know, he he's remembered for these big soaring convention speeches, but those were conventions where his party ended up losing in a landslide.

那么，你如何看待这些演讲的意义？

Like, what was the life of those particular speeches to you?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，很多人认为他在1984年和1988年民主党全国代表大会上的两次演讲，都是有史以来最出色的党代会演讲之一。

I mean, I think a lot of people regard the 1984 and nineteen eighty eight Democratic National Convention speeches that he delivered, both of them, to be two of the best convention speeches ever delivered.

当我环顾这次大会时，我看到的是美国的面孔：红色、黄色、棕色、黑色和白色。

When I look out at this convention, I see the face of America, red, yellow, brown, black, and white.

在上帝眼中，我们所有人都是宝贵的，这才是真正的彩虹联盟。

We're all precious in God's sight, the real rainbow coalition.

当你仔细审视这些演讲时，它们实际上是关于美国政治道德框架的典范，试图向人们阐明，这个国家的所有人之间存在着一条共同的主线、一个共同的主题。

And when you look closely at those speeches, they are really a master class in a moral framing for American politics that tries to argue to people that there is a common thread, a common theme among all of the people in this nation.

当你思考这些演讲及其所源自的传统——黑人教会传统时，很难不注意到巴拉克·奥巴马的伟大演讲深受这种政治表达方式的影响。

And when you think about those speeches and the tradition that they came out of, which is the black church tradition, it's hard not to see the way in which Barack Obama's great speeches were influenced by that kind of approach to politics.

你为这本书采访过杰克逊。

You talked to Jackson for this book.

你与他见面时，他已经年迈许多。

He was a lot older when you sat down with him.

那时他的健康状况已经面临一些严重问题。

He was battling some serious health issues by that point in his life.

你与杰西·杰克逊的交谈和采访中，最让你印象深刻的是什么？

What struck you about your conversations and interviews with Jesse Jackson?

实际上让我印象深刻的是，他在谈论自己所做事情时缺乏自我中心。

What struck me actually was the lack of ego in a lot of how he talked about what he did.

当我问他这两场竞选中他想实现什么时，他认为这些行动就像下棋一样，旨在推动民主党向一种更有利于像他这样的候选人成功的方向转变。

And when I talked to him about what he was trying to accomplish in these two campaigns, he saw it as moves on a chessboard of trying to move the Democratic Party closer to a form that would allow for a candidate like him to be successful.

即使当我问他经历中一些更艰难的部分——比如许多黑人精英和建制派对他的候选人身份的拒绝时，他也没有对此做出评判。

And even when I asked him about some of the harder parts of his experience, which was the rejection of his candidacy by a lot of black elites and establishment types, He wasn't judgmental about it.

他并不生气。

He wasn't angry.

他并不怨恨。

He wasn't bitter.

他理解他们有着与他不同的政治算计。

He understood that they had a political calculation that was different from him.

回顾过去，我认为他逐渐意识到自己的政治生涯为之后的一切奠定了基础，无论是巴拉克·奥巴马，还是像伯尼·桑德斯这样的人，乃至更远的未来。

As he looked back, I think he kind of sees the arc of his political career as laying the groundwork for all the things that came next, whether it was Barack Obama or even someone like Bernie Sanders and beyond.

我认为他把这一切都看作是他当时正在搭建的基石。

I think he sees it all as part of the building blocks that he was putting together at that time.

这是CNN的阿比·菲利普。

That is CNN's Abby Phillip.

她的书名为《被推迟的梦想：杰西·杰克逊与黑人政治权力的斗争》。

Her book is titled a dream deferred, Jesse Jackson and the fight for black political power.

非常感谢。

Thanks so much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

本集由埃里卡·莱恩和康纳·多诺万制作，音频制作由汉娜·格鲁布纳和泰德·米班完成。

This episode was produced by Erica Ryan and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Hannah Glubna and Ted Meebane.

本集由约翰·凯奇姆编辑。

It was edited by John Ketchum.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·叶尼根。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

这是来自NPR的《请考虑一下》。

It's consider this from NPR.

我是斯科特·德特鲁布。

I'm Scott Detrub.