报道对委内瑞拉的入侵

上个星期六，美国人醒来时得知，美国特种部队突袭委内瑞拉，逮捕了该国领导人尼古拉斯·马杜罗及其妻子塞莉亚·弗洛雷斯。

Last Saturday, Americans woke up to the news that US special forces had swooped into Venezuela and captured the country's leader Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores.

马杜罗被关押在纽约布鲁克林的一处联邦拘留中心。

Maduro had a federal detention center in Brooklyn, New York.

他乘飞机抵达美国，随后被送上一架直升机，直升机在降落布鲁克林前，直接飞越了自由女神像。

He arrived in The US by plane, and then he was put on a helicopter, which flew right in front of the Statue Of Liberty before landing in Brooklyn.

NPR国际记者埃德尔·佩拉尔塔常驻墨西哥，就在黎明前，他听到了这个消息。

NPR international correspondent Eder Peralta is based in Mexico, and it was just before dawn when he got wind of the story.

你是在半夜被编辑叫醒的，对吧？看到那个号码，你立刻翻身，第一反应就是：出什么事了？

You're awoken by your editor, right, at, in the middle of the night, and you see that number and you, like, turn around and you're like, first thing you do is, like, you know, what happened?

对吧？

Right?

所以，我第一件事就是开始联系你能想到的所有委内瑞拉政府消息源，那些你一直保持联系的人。

And so I I you know, the first thing you start doing is you start calling every government source you can possibly find in Venezuela, the people you had been talking to.

你开始打电话，甚至联系我的古巴消息源，看看他们有没有什么信息。

You start calling, you know, even like my Cuban sources to see if they had anything to say.

与此同时，他开始思考，去哪里才能追踪这个故事？

At the same time, he started thinking, where could he go to chase the story?

委内瑞拉是西半球的一个特殊情况。

Venezuela is a is is a is a special case in the Western Hemisphere.

对吧？

Right?

因为第一，机场关闭了，因为空域也关闭了；第二，委内瑞拉政府要求记者必须持有签证才能入境，而我们没有这样的签证，所以你开始想，好吧，如果我们不能直接飞往加拉加斯——这正是你最想去的地方——那接下来最好的办法就是尽可能靠近它。

Because one, the airport was closed because the airspace was closed and then two, the government of Venezuela requires a journalist visa for you to get in there and so we don't have one of those and so you start thinking like, okay, if we can't go get it straight into Caracas, which is exactly where you wanna go, the next best thing is to get as close to it as possible.

这意味着就在边境上。

Which meant right on the border.

我们已联系到 NPR 的埃德尔·佩尔塔，他位于哥伦比亚的库库塔市，紧邻委内瑞拉边境。

We've reached NPR's Eder Peralta in the city of Cucuta in Colombia, just on the border with Venezuela.

你好。

Hi there.

所以，我们已经来到了能望见委内瑞拉的地方，但还没有获得作为记者入境的许可。

So, you know, we've made it within eyesight, of Venezuela, but we have not gotten permission to go in as journalists.

你知道，我们一直在与进出委内瑞拉的人交谈。

You know, we've still been talking to people who are coming in and out of Venezuela.

想想看，有时，仅仅到达现场进行报道就是报道中最困难的部分。

Consider this, sometimes just getting in place to cover a story is the hardest part of reporting.

接下来，我们将了解阻碍一些记者进入委内瑞拉的障碍。

Coming up, we hear about the obstacles keeping some journalists out of Venezuela.

这里是NPR，我是莎拉·麦卡门。

From NPR, I'm Sarah McCammen.

这是NPR的《就此而言》。

It's Consider This from NPR.

NPR国际记者埃德尔·佩拉尔塔曾报道过从东非到拉丁美洲的冲突和危机。

NPR international correspondent Eder Peralta has covered conflicts and crises from East Africa to Latin America.

他最近的派遣任务是前往哥伦比亚，报道美国干预委内瑞拉所引发的连锁反应。

His latest deployment has taken him to Colombia where he's been covering the fallout from The US intervention in Venezuela.

在本期记者手记中，我首先问埃德尔，他和团队是如何试图进入委内瑞拉的。

For this week's reporter's notebook, I started by asking Eder how he and his team were trying to cross into Venezuela.

委内瑞拉。

Venezuela.

我总是说，你知道，90%的新闻工作就是等待。

I always say that, like, you know, 90% of journalism is waiting.

这里有一个小小的委内瑞拉领事馆。

There's a small consulate Venezuelan consulate here.

你知道，这里有几十名国际记者。

And, you know, there's there's dozens of international journalists here.

那座桥上挤满了试图做和我们一样事情的记者，也就是想进入委内瑞拉，所以这个小小的委内瑞拉领事馆被记者们围得水泄不通，我们都在问同一个问题：你们能给我们一个记者签证吗？但他们却让我们吃尽了苦头，甚至把穿短裤的人赶了出去。

That bridge is just it's full and teeming with journalists trying to do the same exact thing that we're trying to do which is to get into Venezuela and so this little Venezuelan consulate is just it's mobbed by journalists and we're all asking the same question which is can you please give us a journalist visa and they just have put us through the ringer they they threw people out who were wearing shorts and

为什么会有着装要求？

Why is there a dress code?

着装要求。

A dress code.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

有的。

There is.

而且更重要的是，他们发了签证申请表，如果你字迹潦草，就会被退回来，还得重新买一张表。

And what's more like, you know, they they they passed out visa forms and if you filled it out in bad handwriting, they would throw it out and and make you buy a new form.

对吧？

Right?

阿迪尔，我能不能问一下，你在报道这样的新闻时，自己的安全和保障是怎么考虑的？

Can I ask you about your own security and safety, Adir, while you're reporting on a story like this?

我的意思是，你是怎么看待这个问题的？

I mean, how are you thinking about about that?

我的意思是，我们现在还好。

I mean, right now, we're fine.

对吧？

Right?

因为我们身在另一个国家。

Cause we're on the on the on the, you know, in another country.

对吧？

Right?

我认为这始终是风险与回报的权衡。

I I I think it's always risk versus reward.

我知道这样想听起来似乎不对，但你得考虑：你能得到什么样的故事，又需要承担多大的风险才能获得它？现在在库库塔，我们看到许多记者都在做这样的权衡，我可以告诉你，情况非常戏剧化。

And I know it it sounds it sounds wrong to sort of see it that way right but what you're thinking about what story can you get and what risk you're gonna have to take to to get this story and right now here in Kukuta we are watching so many different journalists make that calculation and let me tell you it's been dramatic.

我猜，在当今时代，如果他们能用谷歌搜索，要分辨谁是记者并不难。

And I would guess if in this day and age if if they have Google, it's not hard to figure out who's a journalist or not as hard.

对。

Right.

这根本不会难，而且你知道，NPR有一项政策，要求明确声明自己是记者。我们很多工作其实从未播出，也不属于报道的一部分，而是要弄清楚：即使我成功过了边境，接下来会发生什么？

It wouldn't be it wouldn't be difficult at all and also like, you know, I I think NPR has a policy of of declaring right declaring that you're a journalist a lot of what we do that never gets on air that's not part of necessarily of reporting right is trying to figure out even if I do make it past that border crossing what happens afterwards?

我能否安全地乘坐十二小时的车前往加拉加斯，而不会被遣返或关进监狱？

Can I make a twelve hour ride to Caracas without getting sent back or getting thrown in prison right?

到目前为止，我们的决定是不打算通过那种方式过境。

So far the decision we've made is is we're not gonna try and cross in that way.

据我了解，哥伦比亚已经发生了抗议活动。

Now there have been, as I understand it, protests in Colombia.

我们的同事格雷格·迪克森从其中一场抗议活动中传了一些音效过来。

Our colleague, Greg Dixon, sent some some sound through from one of those.

你能跟我讲讲这些抗议活动吗？

Can you tell me about those protests?

我的意思是，抗议者们要求什么？

I mean, what are the protesters asking for?

你知道，我们所在的地方是个右翼城市，所以也就大概一百到两百人喊着反美口号吧。

You know, where we are, it's this is a kind of right wing city and so it was just you know maybe a hundred, two hundred people chanting anti American slogans right?

他们喊的是‘不，不，我们不会成为美国的殖民地’，我们听到了很多对美国刚刚所作所为的愤怒情绪，这大约两百人游行穿过街道，挥舞着哥伦比亚国旗，最后到达了一个广场。有趣的是，像往常一样，有几个人走过来对我说：‘嘿，嘿，别拍他们，过来，我告诉你真相。’

No no no we will not be an American colony is what they were chanting and so we heard a lot of anger about what The United States had had just done and you know these these 200 or so people moved through the streets, they waved Colombian flags, they they finally made it to a square and what was interesting right is that like as often happens like a couple of people came up to me and they were like, hey, hey, don't be covering them, come here I'll tell you the truth, right?

有一位女士特别愤怒。

And And this one lady was just she was so angry.

对吧？

Right?

她说，我们知道委内瑞拉人民真正的苦难。

She's like, you know, we know the real suffering of the Venezuelan people.

我们接收了数百万人。

We've received millions of people.

她说，连我们自己都不喜欢我们的总统，特朗普总统本该先拿他开刀的，对吧？这很有趣，我认为这次抗议让我们得以一窥我们在委内瑞拉国家电视台上经常看到的那些抗议——那些由委内瑞拉政府发起、谴责这一事件的抗议。这让我们瞥见了拉丁美洲人对大陆上这一重大历史事件的感受。

She's like and we don't even like our own president and president Trump should have started with him first right so it it it's interesting you I think the the protest gave us a little view into the many protests that we've seen on state TV from Venezuela that you know that the government has called for in Venezuela as well to denounce what has happened and so it gave us a peek of how Latin Americans are feeling about you know what is a significant historic event on the continent.

我的意思是，值得停下来想想，美国自1989年以来就没做过类似的事，当时老布什总统派兵进入巴拿马，

Mean I think it's worth pausing on the the fact that The United States hasn't done something like this since 1989 when President George H.

W.

W.

逮捕了当时的军事统治者曼努埃尔·诺列加。

Bush sent troops into Panama to extract Manuel Noriegaard, who was the military ruler at the time.

埃德尔，你已经做了很多年的国际记者了。

Eder, you've been an international correspondent for many years now.

你曾在多个不同的地方常驻。

You've been based in a variety of different places.

但你知道，每个地方都不同，每个故事也不同。

But, you know, each place is different, each story is different.

你过去的经历为报道这个故事做了多少准备？

How much have your past experiences prepared you for this story?

我觉得这些经历只是让你更有耐心，说实话。

I think they just make you patient, honestly.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，说来奇怪，我觉得世界正在变化，政府也在变化，世界各国政府都意识到，他们不必允许记者进入自己的国家。

And and and also I think this is in an odd way I feel like the world is changing, governments are changing and what governments across the world have learned is that they don't have to allow journalists into their country.

我认为在最近的过去，自从我成为记者以来，当重大事件发生时，各国通常会允许记者入境，对吧？要么是因为局势混乱，他们无法控制，要么是因为他们根本懒得阻止你入境，对吧？

I think in the very recent past since I've been a journalist, countries would allow you in when big stuff was happening, right, either because it was chaotic and they couldn't control it or because they just couldn't be bothered to keep you to keep you out, right?

他们只是觉得你是个烦人精，那就进来吧。我觉得我最早是在埃塞俄比亚看到这种情况的——我报道了那场持续两年的埃塞俄比亚内战，据一些估计，那场战争造成了40万到50万人死亡，但只有极少数记者被允许进去报道，对吧？

And they were just like you're you're being a pest so come in and and I think you know I saw this first in Ethiopia where the Ethiopian civil war, I covered it for two years, that happened 400, 500,000 people by some estimates were killed in that war and very few journalists were allowed in to cover it, right?

然后从那里，你知道，我们有了加沙，国际记者一直被禁止进入加沙报道那里的状况，这又是政府试图限制记者进入、报道正在发生之事的另一个例子。

And and then from there, you know, we have Gaza where journalists have not international journalists have not been allowed in to cover Gaza, to cover what's happening in Gaza and then, you know, this is another example of how much how much a government is trying to limit journalists from coming in to cover what is happening.

NPR的埃德尔·佩拉尔塔从哥伦比亚库库塔向我们发来报道。

NPR's Eder Peralta speaking to us from Cucuta, Colombia.

埃德尔，非常感谢你的报道。

Eder, thanks so much for your reporting.

不。

No.

谢谢您，先生。

Thank you, sir.

本集由加布里埃尔·桑切斯制作。

This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez.

本集由亚当·雷尼剪辑。

It was edited by Adam Rainey.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·叶尼根。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

这是NPR的《就此而言》。

It's Consider This from NPR.

我是萨拉·麦卡门。

I'm Sarah McCammen.