特朗普正在重写经济规则……这是“裙带资本主义”吗？

特朗普总统采取了一种非常不寻常的积极参与方式来管理经济，动用数十亿美元的纳税人资金为美国政府收购英特尔等私营公司的股份。

President Trump has taken a pretty unusual hands on approach to the economy using billions of dollars in taxpayer funds to purchase shares in private companies like Intel for the US government.

我说，你知道如果你聪明的话该怎么做吗？

I said, you know what you should do if you're smart?

把你的公司10%的股份交给美利坚合众国。

Give The United States Of America 10% of your company.

他看着我说，我会这么做的。

And he looked at me and he said, I'll do that.

美国政府还在其他几家公司的股份中占有一席之地，其中许多公司涉及矿产和能源领域。

The US government also has positions in a handful of other companies, many involved in minerals and energy.

特朗普总统曾公开施压首席执行官们，并迫使TikTok等社交媒体巨头进行重组。

President Trump has publicly pressured CEOs and forced the restructuring of social media giants like TikTok.

政府官员辩称，这些举措对于国家安全至关重要。

Members of the administration argue that these moves are essential for national security.

我们必须拥有能够支持国家安全和经济安全的基础设施，而这正是唐纳德·特朗普为美国带来的东西。

We've gotta have the infrastructure to help our national security and our economic security, and that's what Donald Trump is bringing to America.

但批评者，比如加州州长加文·纽森，称之为‘裙带资本主义’。

But critics like California governor Gavin Newsom call it, quote, crony capitalism.

这种裙带资本主义的说法，我不喜欢。

This notion of crony capitalism, I don't like it.

这是腐败。

It's corruption.

那些有能力打个电话、获得关税豁免、得到别人无法获得的待遇、甚至能踏进门槛的人，才是有特权的。

People that can afford to make a phone call, afford to get an exemption on a tariff, afford to get something no one else can get, afford to even get in in the door.

我这辈子从未见过如此明目张胆的腐败。

I've never seen open corruption like this in my life.

想想这个。

Consider this.

商业与总统权力之间的界限在哪里？特朗普政府是如何重新定义这些规则的？

What is the boundary between business and presidential power, and how is the Trump administration rewriting those rules?

来自NPR，我是艾尔莎·张。

From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang.

NPR的播客《特朗普任期》是您获取关于特朗普政府重大新闻当日更新的来源。

NPR's podcast Trump's terms is your source for same day updates on big news about the Trump administration.

每集简短专注，一次只讲一个主题，大约五分钟。

Short, focused episodes, one topic at a time, about five minutes or so.

我们整合NPR全部报道内容，确保您始终获取最重要、最紧迫的新闻。

We carry out reporting from across all of NPR's coverage so you are always getting the biggest, most urgent stories.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《特朗普任期》。

Listen to Trump's terms on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是NPR的《就此而言》。

It's consider this from NPR.

特朗普总统上任第一年一直在重写美国资本主义的规则。

President Trump has spent his first year back in office rewriting the rules of American capitalism.

但这对我们的经济和政府的未来意味着什么？

But what will that mean for the future of our economy and of our government?

NPR财经记者玛丽亚·阿斯彭着手解答这些问题。

Well, those are the questions that NPR financial correspondent Maria Aspen set out to answer.

英特尔是美国最早的科技初创公司之一。

Intel is one of America's original tech startups.

还记得它在“Intel Inside”广告中的那个声音吗？

Remember this sound from its Intel Inside commercials?

英特尔成立于1968年，制造了第一批如今对科技繁荣至关重要的计算机芯片。

Founded back in 1968, Intel made some of the first computer chips that have become so crucial to today's tech boom.

到本世纪初，其芯片已使这家科技公司成为美国资本主义的巨头。

By the start of this century, its chips had made the tech company into a giant of American capitalism.

但去年，英特尔变成了另一种东西——象征着总统特朗普如何掌控私营企业。

But last year, Intel became something very different, a symbol of how much president Trump is taking control of private companies.

今年8月，特朗普公开威胁英特尔首席执行官谭立斌，要求他因与中国的关系而辞职。

In August, Trump publicly threatened Intel CEO Lip Bu Tan calling for his resignation over his ties to China.

随后，谭立斌前往白宫与特朗普会面。

Then Tan went to the White House to meet with Trump.

我说，你知道吗？

I said, you know what?

我认为美国应该获得英特尔10%的股份。

I think The United States should be given 10% of Intel.

现在美国拥有英特尔以及多家其他公司的部分股权。

And now The United States owns a chunk of Intel and several other companies.

美国还在寻求对当今科技新星英伟达施加更多控制。

It's also seeking more control over today's tech darling, NVIDIA.

特朗普要求英伟达将其在中国的部分销售额的25%支付给美国，作为允许其在中国销售某些电脑芯片的条件。

Trump wants NVIDIA to pay The US a 25% cut of some sales in China as a condition of allowing it to sell some computer chips there.

特朗普经常与那些刻意讨好他的首席执行官们达成这类交易，有时这些人还捐赠给他个人的项目。

Trump often makes these deals with CEOs who have gone out of their way to court him, sometimes donating to his personal projects.

比如英伟达首席执行官黄仁勋，他是资助特朗普有争议的白宫舞厅的科技亿万富翁和公司之一。

Like NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang, who's among the tech billionaires and companies funding Trump's controversial White House ballroom.

这是黄仁勋在今年四月于白宫新闻发布会上的发言。

Here's Huang in April at a White House press conference.

因此，我想感谢您，先生，感谢您所做的一切、给予的坚定支持以及那些让我们得以发展的优秀政策。

And so I wanna thank you, sir, for everything that you've done and the strong encouragement and the great policies that make it possible for us.

谢谢您，先生。

Thank you, sir.

非常感谢。

Very much.

我一直认为，首席执行官们都会试图讨好白宫，无论谁在任。

I'm CEOs have always tried to court the White House, whoever its occupant.

但对于美国政府而言，它几乎从不直接持有美国公司的股份，这与传统大相径庭。

But for the US government, which almost never takes a direct stake in US companies, this is a huge break from tradition.

现在，政治光谱两端的商业专家都担心，美国正越来越像中国。

Now business experts across the political spectrum are worried that The United States is starting to look more like China.

如果企业不是凭借创新能力和开发更好产品的能力来竞争，而是靠拉关系、搞人脉，那对所有人来说都是坏事。

If companies aren't competing on their ability to innovate and develop better products, if they're competing on their, ability to schmooze, then, I mean, that's bad for everybody.

安·利普顿几十年来一直从事公司法工作。

Anne Lipton has been working in corporate law for decades.

她是科罗拉多大学法学院的教授。

She's a professor at the University of Colorado's Law School.

她说，当政府挑选赢家和输家时，企业就失去了相互竞争的动力。

She says that when the government picks winners and losers, companies have less incentive to compete with each other.

这会导致创新减少、支出下降和就业创造减少，所有这些都可能损害经济。

That leads to less innovation and less spending and less job creation, which can all hurt the economy.

长期以来，这一直是华盛顿和华尔街的普遍共识。

This has long been the conventional wisdom in Washington and on Wall Street.

如果你相信自由市场是产生资源、创新和一切事物的最佳方式，那么这种情况就会破坏这种理念。

If you believe that the free market is the best way of generating resources and and and innovations and everything, then this just sort of messes with that.

这无疑动摇了被称为自由市场资本主义的体系，几十年来，这一直是美国企业界的金科玉律。

It certainly messes with what's known as free market capitalism, which for decades has been the gospel of corporate America.

我们正看到一种远离规则导向型资本主义的转变，而正是这种资本主义使美国经济如此强劲。

We are seeing a shift away from the type of rules based capitalism that has made America's economy so robust.

丹妮尔·贝卢·艾尔斯创立了一家咨询公司，并曾在奥巴马政府任职。

Danielle Belou Ayers founded a consulting company and served in the Obama administration.

现在她领导着‘领导力现在项目’，这是一个由来自两党的商业领袖组成的联盟，曾支持过多个政治候选人。

Now she runs the Leadership Now Project, a coalition of business leaders that has endorsed political candidates from both parties.

她担心美国甚至可能滑向裙带资本主义，即企业的发展与衰落取决于政治领导人对它们的喜好程度。

She's worried that The United States is even at risk of tipping over into crony capitalism, meaning that companies rise and fall based on how much a political leader likes them.

比如，那些在弗拉基米尔·普京统治下拥有石油公司的俄罗斯亿万富翁。

Like, say, the Russian billionaires who own oil companies under Vladimir Putin.

我们现在看到的是大量个人化决策、混乱的决策和不稳定性，而这些正在付出代价。

What we have right now is a lot of personalized decision making, chaotic decision decision making, instability, that we're seeing the cost of.

一位白宫官员以匿名方式对NPR表示，基本无视这些担忧，并称英特尔和英伟达对美国的国家安全和经济安全至关重要。

A White House official speaking to NPR in condition of anonymity largely dismisses these concerns and says that companies like Intel and NVIDIA are crucial to US national and economic security.

当然，美国股市正在蓬勃发展。

And to be sure, The US stock market is booming away.

英特尔并未回应置评请求。

Intel didn't respond to requests for comment.

英伟达的一位发言人在一封电子邮件声明中表示，其与特朗普总统的讨论聚焦于‘他希望美国作为一个国家取得成功’。

In an emailed statement, an NVIDIA spokesperson says its discussions with president Trump have focused, quote, on his desire for America to win as a nation.

巴鲁·阿耶斯表示，商界领袖很难知道如何对抗特朗普，尤其是在他已威胁过一些人之后。

Baloo Ayers says that it's tough for business leaders to know how to stand up to Trump, especially after he's threatened some of them.

除非事情明确符合你的核心利益、核心业务，且毫无风险，否则你最好不要开口。

You don't wanna say anything unless it's, like, clearly, exactly in your core interest, in your core business, and at no risk.

但她警告说，裙带资本主义可能对整体经济以及个别企业领导者带来相当严重的后果。

But she warns that crony capitalism can have some pretty dire consequences for the overall economy, but also for individual business leaders.

在俄罗斯这样的极端情况下，失势的高管有时会‘从窗户掉下去’。

In extreme cases like Russia, executives who fall out of favor then sometimes fall out of windows.

裙带关系和裙带资本主义，看看俄罗斯的寡头们就知道了。

The cronies and crony capitalism, they don't end look at the oligarchs in Russia.

对很多人来说，结局都不太好，而且你无法预测自己是否会安然无恙。

It doesn't really end well for many of them, and you can't predict if you are one who ends up okay or not.

俄罗斯是个极端例子，但她希望这能给美国企业领导者敲响警钟，让他们捍卫自由市场经济。

Russia is an extreme example, but she hopes it's an early warning to US business leaders to stand up for free market capitalism.

哪怕不是为了经济，至少也要为了他们自身的长期利益。

If not for the sake of the economy, at least for their own long term self interest.

玛丽亚·阿斯彭，NPR新闻。

Maria Aspen, NPR News.

本集由文森特·阿科维诺制作，音频工程由蒂芙尼·维拉卡斯特负责。

This episode was produced by Vincent Acovino with audio engineering by Tiffany Veracastro.

本集由我们的执行制片人萨米·叶尼根剪辑。

It was edited by our executive producer, Sammy Yenigan.

这是来自NPR的《Consider This》。

It's consider this from NPR.

我是尔莎·张。

I'm Elsa Chang.

想在没有广告中断的情况下收听这个播客吗？

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

亚马逊Prime会员可以通过亚马逊音乐收听无广告的《Consider This》，或者您也可以通过访问+.npr.org支持NPR的重要新闻报道，并获取《Consider This Plus》。

Amazon Prime members can listen to consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this plus at +.npr.org.

网址是+.npr.org。

That's +.npr.org.