当总统敦促共和党人“将投票国家化”时，这意味着什么？

我想给你播放一段电话录音。

I wanna play you a phone call.

好的。

Okay.

行吧。

Alright.

所以每一位总统先生，所有人都在通话中，还有国务卿和另外两位人士。

So every mister president, everybody is on the line, and just so secretary of state and, two other individuals

这是2021年1月的录音，当时特朗普总统正在质疑拜登在2020年总统大选中的胜利。

This is from January 2021 when president Trump was contesting Joe Biden's victory in the twenty twenty presidential election.

好的。

Okay.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

你好，布拉德、莱恩，还有大家。

Hello, Brad and Ryan and everybody.

我们感谢您抽出时间进行这次通话。

We appreciate the time and the call.

在这通电话中，特朗普总统正在与共和党人布拉德·拉弗斯佩格纳通话，后者是佐治亚州的州务卿，特朗普要求他重新审查该州2020年的选举结果。

In this call, president Trump is speaking with Republican Brad Raffensperger, Georgia's secretary of state, and he tells him to reevaluate the twenty twenty election results in his state.

所以你看。

So look.

我只想做这件事。

All I wanna do is this.

我只是想找到11780张选票。

I just wanna find, 11,780 votes.

这通电话意义重大。

This call was a big deal.

它被引用为当年特朗普弹劾案的依据之一，也是佐治亚州富尔顿县一项现已终止的刑事起诉的核心证据。

It was cited in Trump's impeachment that year and a central piece of evidence in a now defunct criminal prosecution in Fulton County, Georgia.

顺便说一下，拉弗斯佩格纳拒绝了，但这通电话还有另一个重要理由。

Raffensperger refused, by the way, but the call is important for another reason.

总统不得不请求一位选举官员在本州启动调查。

The president had to ask an election official to launch an investigation in his state.

他不能直接命令他们这么做。

He couldn't order them to.

好的。

Okay.

谢谢你，布拉德。

Thank you, Brad.

谢谢你，瑞安。

Thank you, Ryan.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

Thank you, everybody.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

再见。

Bye.

各州拥有管理选举的唯一权力。

States have the sole power to administer elections.

但如今，总统发表了新的声明。

But now this, a new declaration from the president.

我们至少应该接管15个地方的投票。

We should take over the voting the voting in at least many 15 places.

共和党人应该将投票全国化。

The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting.

这是总统上周一在丹·邦吉诺的播客上的讲话。

That was the president speaking on Dan Bongino's podcast last Monday.

在后来接受NBC的采访中，特朗普进一步坚持他的言论，并将亚特兰大、费城和底特律——所有民主党主导的城市——列为联邦干预选举的目标。

And in a later interview with NBC, Trump doubled down on his comments and listed Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Detroit, all Democratic cities, as targets for federal involvement in elections.

上个月底，他的司法部从富尔顿县的一个选举中心没收了2020年大选中投出的选票。

His Department of Justice seized ballots cast during the twenty twenty election from a Fulton County election center late last month.

最近几天，前特朗普战略家史蒂夫·班农在他的播客《战争室》中表示。

Also in recent days, Steve Bannon, the former Trump strategist, said on his podcast War Room.

到十一月，我们将让警察包围投票站。

We're gonna have ice surround the polls come November.

请想想，尽管没有任何证据表明存在广泛的选民欺诈，总统却一再质疑选举系统的公正性。

Consider this, the president has repeatedly questioned the integrity of election election systems despite no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

现在，他呼吁将投票权国家化。

Now he is calling to nationalize voting.

为什么由各州政府管理选举？如果这一权力受到威胁，会发生什么？

Why do state governments run elections, and what happens if that power is under threat?

来自NPR，我是艾米莉·昆ong。

From NPR, I'm Emily Kwong.

这条信息来自Wise，一款专为全球使用货币的国际用户设计的应用。

This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe.

你只需轻点几下，即可发送、消费和接收多达40种货币。

You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps.

聪明一点。

Be smart.

下载Wise。

Get Wise.

今天就下载Wise应用，或访问wise.com。

Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com.

条款和条件适用。

Ts and cs apply.

这条信息来自TED Talks Daily，TED的播客。

This message comes from TED Talks Daily, the podcast from TED.

你是否好奇如何自我介绍才能真正获得工作？或者为什么人们开始说话像ChatGPT？

Curious how to introduce yourself so you actually get hired or why people are starting to sound like chat GPT?

关于这个，有一场TED演讲。

There's a TED Talk for that.

无论你在哪儿听播客，都请收听《TED Talks Daily》。

Listen to TED Talks daily wherever you get your podcasts.

在《星球金钱》中，我们已经探讨过很多话题。

On planet money, we have covered a lot of topics.

比如，你试着在互联网上搜索某个话题，然后在后面加上‘星球金钱’。

Like, just try searching something on the Internet and adding planet money to the end of it.

关税价格，星球金钱，那是一期节目。

Tariff prices, Planet Money, that's an episode.

停车标志之战，星球金钱，这也是一期。

Stop Sign War, Planet Money, that too.

阿拉斯加比目鱼大赛，星球金钱。

Alaska Halibut Derby, Planet Money.

只要你能问出来，我们大概已经回答过了。

If you can ask it, we have probably answered it.

《星球金钱》可在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听。

Planet Money, listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是来自NPR的《就此而言》。

It's consider this from NPR.

温迪·韦泽尔是纽约大学法学院布伦南司法中心的民主事务副总裁，这是一个智库和投票权倡导组织。我问她，将选举全国化意味着什么。

Wendy Weiser is the vice president for democracy at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU Law School, a think tank and voting rights advocacy group, and I asked her what it would mean to nationalize the vote.

有一件事对人们来说非常重要，那就是总统在我国选举事务中没有任何角色。

One thing that's really important for people to know is that actually the president has no role in running elections in our country.

在我国，选举由各州和全国范围内的约一万个地方管辖区负责组织。

In our country, elections are run by the states and 10,000 local jurisdictions across the country.

宪法明确规定，各州负责监管联邦选举。

And the constitution makes it clear that it is states that regulate federal elections.

国会可以通过法律推翻这一点，但总统没有任何角色。

Congress can pass laws overriding that, but the president has no role.

所以中期选举实际上已经近在眼前了。

So the midterms, they're basically around the corner.

地方官员正在采取什么措施来保护由各州管理的选举？

What are local officials doing to protect state run elections?

选举官员正在像往常一样加紧准备，确保选举自由公正，并为可能发生的各种干扰做好应对计划。

Election officials are doing what they always do, which is preparing, furiously to ensure free and fair elections and planning for every possible disruption that might come their way.

特朗普政府一直在试图收集全国各地选民名册中的所有敏感选民信息。

The Trump administration has been trying to gather up all of the sensitive voter information from the voter rolls across the country.

法律要求各州维护并保护这些信息。

The law requires states to maintain and secure that information.

这些信息，大多数州和大多数州官员——无论共和党还是民主党——都拒绝交出这些敏感的选民信息。

These are these, and most states and most state officials, Republican and Democratic, have refused to turn over that sensitive voter information.

这些数据难道不是也受到美国隐私法的保护吗？

Isn't it also protected by US privacy laws, that data?

这些信息受到各州隐私法的保护。

It is protected by state privacy laws.

因此，大多数州都表示：不行，你们不能获得这些信息。

And so most states have said, no, you cannot you you cannot have that information.

你可以获取某些数量的选民档案信息，这些信息可以公开或供查阅。

You can have there's certain amounts of voter file information that can be made publicly available or available for inspection.

该政府实际上已经起诉了超过20个州和华盛顿特区，试图获取这些信息，而法院一直支持各州的立场。

The administration has actually sued now more than 20 states and DC to try to get that, and the courts have actually been backing up the states.

他们表示，政府无权接触敏感的选民数据。

They have said the administration doesn't have access to the sensitive voter, data.

他们没有任何法律授权。

They have no legal authorization.

回到史蒂夫·班农在他播客中的言论，他说我们要让移民与海关执法局的特工包围投票站，我们该如何理解这样的言论？

Going back to Steve Bannon's comments on his podcast, when he says we're going to have ICE agents surround the polls, what do we need to understand about a comment like that?

这是一种威胁。

This is a threat.

任何军队或任何武装联邦特工都不允许出现在投票或选举进行的任何场所附近。

It is prohibited for there to be any troops or any armed federal agents of any sort anywhere near where voting or elections are being conducted.

有非常明确的联邦法律，包括民事和刑事法律。

There is very clear federal law, both civil and criminal

对。

Right.

这禁止了对选民的恐吓。

That prohibit intimidation of voters.

然而，我认为在各个城市部署国民警卫队，让人们对可能的情况产生了疑问——比如，特工是否可以随总统及其政府的意愿随时出现。

And yet, I I think the deployment of the National Guard in various cities has made people question, like, maybe agents can appear at will, at at the wish of the the president and his administration.

这确实是一个合理的担忧。

That's certainly a valid concern.

我确信，如果这种情况发生，法院会迅速采取行动予以禁止。

I am confident that courts will move quickly if that happens to try to prohibit it.

但我认为，选举官员、选民和社区正在为可能的情况做准备——万一政府不遵守法律，也要确保所有选民在社区中感到安全并能参与投票。

But I do think election officials, voters, communities are planning just in case, in case the administration does not follow the law, to make sure that voters and all voters feel safe in their communities and in participating.

选民也可以提前做好规划。

And voters can also plan ahead.

如果他们担心所在社区的情况，可以考虑提前投票或邮寄投票。

Think about voting early or voting by mail if they're worried in their communities.

但这显然是违法且不恰当的。

But this would be clearly unlawful and inappropriate.

共和党议员正在推动他们自己的投票法——《保护美国选民资格法》（SAVE法案），该法案要求选民在投票时出示护照或出生证明。

Republican lawmakers are working to advance their own voting law, the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act or SAVE Act, which would require voters to show passports or birth certificates in order to vote.

如果这项法案通过，首先，你认为它能通过吗？

If this act passes, first of all, do you think it could pass?

其次，它会对投票产生什么影响？

And second of all, how would it affect voting?

SAVE法案是一项压制投票的法案。

The SAVE Act is a vote suppression bill.

它将阻止数百万美国公民投票。

It would block millions of American citizens from voting.

它要求你如你所说，出示护照或出生证明才能完成选民登记。

It requires you to show a passport or birth certificate, as you said, in order to register to vote.

是的。

Yeah.

有2100万有资格的美国公民无法轻易获得这些文件。

And 21,000,000 eligible American citizens don't have ready access to those documents.

大约一半的美国人甚至没有护照。

Roughly half of Americans don't even have a passport.

我们很多人根本不知道自己的出生证明在哪里。

Many of us don't even know where our birth certificate is.

SAVE法案将严重扭曲选举，阻止数百万美国人投票。

The SAVE Act would really append elections and block millions of Americans.

这确实是一个真实的风险。

It is a real risk.

我认为本周或下周众议院很可能就会进行投票。

I I think there's going to be likely a vote on the house floor this week or next.

是的。

Mhmm.

美国人应该关注此事。

And Americans should pay attention.

这是他们的代表，因此这是一个让他们发声的机会。

This is this is their representative, so this is an opportunity to make their voices heard.

政府对选举安全的质疑，特别是在今年中期选举期间，其累积影响是什么？

What is the accumulative effect of the administration's questioning of election security, particularly in this midterm year?

这正在动摇选民对制度的信心。

This is shaking voters' confidence in the system.

它实际上在全国范围内制造了选举管理人员的恐惧，他们本已辛勤工作，现在却面临联邦政府的直接威胁。

It's actually creating fear among election administrators nationwide who are working really hard, they are now under a lot of direct threats from the federal government.

但我想强调的是，我们的选举依然稳固。

But I do wanna reinforce that our elections are still strong.

选举仍然在正常进行。

We still have they are still administered.

我们全国各地都有了解自己职责的选举工作人员作为支撑。

We have a backbone of election workers across the country who know their jobs.

我们有站在选民一边的州和联邦选举法律。

We have elected state and federal election laws that are on the voters' side here.

而且，我们有许多人和机构正在努力确保选举的安全，保障选举的自由与公正。

And we have many, many people and entities who are working very hard to secure the elections and to ensure that the election is free and fair.

这是来自布伦南司法中心的温迪·韦泽尔。

That's Wendy Weiser of the Brennan Center for Justice.

非常感谢您与我们交谈。

Thank you so much for talking to us.

谢谢您邀请我。

Thank you for having me.

本集由亨利·拉森和凯·麦克奈尔制作，音频工程由达米安·赫林负责。

This episode was produced by Henry Larson and Kai McNamee with audio engineering by Damien Hering.

本集由莎拉·罗宾斯和艾哈迈德·达赫曼剪辑。

It was edited by Sarah Robbins and Ahmad Dahman.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·扬尼根。

Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan.

这是来自NPR的《就此而言》。

It's Consider This from NPR.

我是艾米莉·昆贡。

I'm Emily Kwong.

买房很难。

It is hard to get a house.

凑齐首付款，太艰难了。

Getting that down payment together, brutal.

你为了凑够买房的首付款，被派去吉布提了？

You shipped off to Djibouti to afford a down payment for a house?

是的，长官。

Yes, sir.

百分之百。

100%.

资金未到位，房价高昂。

Unplanted money, the high price of housing.

特朗普政府正试图对此采取什么措施？会有效吗？

What the Trump administration is trying to do about it, and will it work?

在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听。

Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是《新鲜空气》的联合主持人塔尼娅·莫塞利。

This is Tanya Moseley, co host of Fresh Air.

你可能会在深夜电视节目或YouTube上看到你喜爱的演员、导演和喜剧演员，但《新鲜空气》能让你深入了解。

You'll see your favorite actors, directors, and comedians on late night TV shows or YouTube, but what you get with Fresh Air is a deep dive.

与比莉·艾利什、奎斯特洛夫、爱莉安娜·格兰德、斯蒂芬·科尔伯特等人共度一段高质量的时光。

Spend some quality time with people like Billie Eilish, Questlove, Ariana Grande, Stephen Colbert, and so many more.

我们会提出你在其他地方听不到的问题。

We ask questions you won't hear asked anywhere else.

收听来自NPR和WHYY的《新鲜空气》播客。

Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY.