最高法院关税裁决对小企业意味着什么

最高法院关于关税的裁决令人深感失望，我对法院的某些成员感到羞愧。

The supreme court's ruling on tariffs is deeply disappointing, and I'm ashamed of certain members of the court.

这是特朗普总统对最高法院裁决的反应，该裁决认定他多项关税措施违宪。

That was president Trump reacting to the supreme court's decision ruling that many of his tariffs are unconstitutional.

差不多一年前，特朗普宣布对来自全球各国的商品征收广泛关税，他称这一天为‘解放日’。

It was nearly a year ago when Trump announced sweeping tariffs on goods from countries all over the world, a day he called liberation day.

美国工业重生之日，美国命运重获掌控之日，我们开始让美国再次富裕起来的日子。

The day American industry was reborn, the day America's destiny was reclaimed, and the day that we began to make America wealthy again.

特朗普认为，这些关税将增强美国在国际经济中的地位。

Trump argued the tariffs would strengthen the international economic position of The US.

但那些进口商品并不得不支付新税的美国企业有着不同的反应。

But American businesses that import goods and had to pay the new taxes had a different reaction.

关税变动了这么多次。

The tariffs changed so many times.

我们必须应对如此多不同的运输问题。

We had to deal with so many different shipping issues.

我们不得不四次审核并修改整个价目表，涉及数百种商品。

We had to go through and change our entire price book, many hundreds of items, four times.

维克多·施瓦茨是位于纽约的葡萄酒和波特酒供应商VOS Selections的创始人。

Victor Schwartz is the founder of the New York based wine and porter VOS Selections.

他说，除了让客户感到困惑外，这些关税还严重打击了公司。

He said in addition to confusion for his customers, the tariffs pummeled his company.

支付关税所需的资金，给我们的现金流造成了巨大缺口。

Finding the money to pay the tariffs, it put a big hole in our cash flow.

当你需要凑出这么大一笔钱时，对我们来说，数额达到了六位数。

When you have to come up with that kind of money, you know, for us, it's like in the 6 figure range.

那么，这笔钱从哪里来呢？

So where's that money gonna come from?

根据摩根大通研究所的数据，去年美国中型企业支付的关税是特朗普重返白宫前的三倍，给企业和消费者造成了数百亿美元的损失。

According to the JPMorgan Chase Institute, mid sized US businesses paid three times as much in tariffs last year as they did before Trump returned to the White House, costing those businesses and consumers tens of billions of dollars.

目前，特朗普约有一半的关税已被取消，但他已誓言将继续推进关税政策。

Now about half of Trump's tariffs are out, but Trump has vowed to forge ahead with tariffs.

但现在将使用其他替代方案来取代法院错误驳回的那些方案。

But other alternatives will now be used to replace the ones that the court incorrectly rejected.

请考虑一下。

Consider this.

最高法院否决了特朗普总统的一项标志性经济政策。

The Supreme Court has shot down one of president Trump's signature economic policies.

那么接下来会发生什么？

So what comes next?

来自NPR，我是斯科特·德特罗。

From NPR, I'm Scott Dettrow.

你最喜欢的NPR播客还能怎么变得更好？

How could your favorite NPR podcast get any better?

如果它包含额外内容，比如更长的访谈和零广告中断，会怎样？

Well, what if it had bonus features such as extended interviews and zero sponsor breaks?

有一种非常简单的方法，能把这个幻想变成现实。

There is a remarkably easy way to turn that fantasy into reality.

它叫做NPR Plus。

It's called NPR Plus.

您可以在25多个NPR播客中享受专属权益，同时支持制作这些节目的团队。

You get perks across more than 25 NPR podcasts while supporting the teams that make them.

访问 +.npr.org，让优秀的播客变得更出色。

Make great podcasts even greater by visiting +.npr.org.

我是艾拉·格拉斯。

This is Ira Glass.

在《This American Life》中，我们寻找那些令人惊讶、 elsewhere 听不到的故事。

On This American Life, we look for stories that are surprising that you won't hear anywhere else.

比如，有一位宇航员去过月球。

Like, for example, this one astronaut who went to the moon.

你知道他不感兴趣的是什么吗？

You know what he's not into?

太空。

Space.

在失重状态下漂浮感觉很酷吗？

Was it cool to float around weightless?

不酷。

No.

不酷。

No.

不酷。

No.

这是美国生活。

This is American life.

无论你在哪儿听播客，都能听到出人意料的故事。

Unexpected stories wherever you get your podcasts.

特朗普政府正在以创纪录的数量驱逐古巴人，这与数十年来的惯例大相径庭。

The Trump administration is deporting Cubans in record numbers, and that's a big shift from decades of precedent.

今年，他们经历了与其他移民群体相似的遭遇。

This year, they have had more experience of being an immigrant group like any other immigrant group.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的任何平台收听《CodeSwitch》。

Listen to CodeSwitch in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.

这是来自NPR的《考虑一下》。

It's consider this from NPR.

将近一年前，特朗普总统兑现了他的一项竞选承诺，对来自数十个美国贸易伙伴的商品实施了广泛的关税。

Nearly a year ago, president Trump followed through on one of his campaign promises, imposing sweeping tariffs on goods from dozens of US trading partners.

特朗普援引《国际紧急经济权力法》（IEPA），声称他拥有宪法赋予的权力，可以通过征收关税来应对贸易失衡并阻止芬太尼大量流入美国，他称这两者都是国家紧急状况和对国家安全的威胁。

Using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act known as IEPA, Trump argued he had the constitutional power to impose tariffs in order to address trade imbalances and to stop the flood of fentanyl coming into The US, both of which he said were national emergencies and threats to national security.

但最高法院持不同意见，裁定他使用IEPA违宪，并取消了特朗普设立的大部分关税。

But the supreme court disagreed ruling his use of IEPA unconstitutional and wiping out a big chunk of the tariff Trump set in place.

为了剖析这一具有里程碑意义的裁决及其后续影响，我们邀请了NPR首席经济记者斯科特·霍斯利和NPR法律事务记者尼娜·托滕伯格。

To break down this landmark decision and what comes next, we have NPR chief economics correspondent Scott Horsley and NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg.

你好。

Hello.

我同意你的看法。

I'm with you.

尼娜，我先问你。

Nina, I'm gonna start with you.

法院怎么说？

What did the court say?

首席大法官约翰·罗伯茨代表六比三的多数意见撰写判决书，指出美国的开国先贤有意且明确地将征税和关税的权力赋予国会，而非总统。

Writing for a hefty six to three majority, chief justice John Roberts said that the nation's founders deliberately and explicitly placed the power to impose taxes, tariffs, with congress, not with the president.

正如首席大法官今天上午在法庭宣布时所说，开国者们刚刚经历了一场革命，其主要动因正是英国国王在未经他们同意的情况下强加的税收，因此他们制定宪法，将征税权交给国会，因为立法机构的成员更对人民负责。

As the chief justice put it in his announcement from the bench this morning, having just fought a revolution motivated in large part by taxes imposed on them by the king of England without their consent, the framers wrote a constitution that gives congress the taxing power because the members of the legislature would be more accountable to the people.

特朗普总统今天对这一裁决反应愤怒。

President Trump reacted to the decision today with fury.

他们只是给犀牛和激进左翼民主党人当傻瓜和走狗。

They're just being fools and lapdogs for the rhinos and the radical left Democrats.

我只想指出，这在共和党内部是一种侮辱——特朗普所指的‘名义上的共和党人’。

And I will just note that's, that's an insult in in Republican world, Republican in name only, that Trump was citing.

特朗普说，他仍然可以利用其他法律来实现他的目标。

Trump says he can just use other statutes to do what he wants to do anyway.

这是真的吗，尼娜？

Is that true, Nina?

是也不是。

Yes and no.

有几项法律允许他自行征收某些关税，但这些权力是有限的。

There are several statutes that allow him to impose some tariffs on his own, but they're limited.

例如，他引用的一项关键法律允许他自行征收某些关税，但仅限六个月。

For example, one of the key statutes he cited allows him to impose certain tariffs on his own, but only for six months.

之后，他必须获得国会的批准。

And after that, he has to get approval from congress.

别忘了，所有通过关税筹集的资金本应用来抵消特朗普的减税政策，但现在这笔钱将不复存在。

And don't forget that all the money raised by the tariffs was supposed to offset the tax cuts, the Trump tax cuts, but now the money isn't gonna be there.

斯科特，这里涉及多少钱？

Scott, how much money is at stake here?

涉及的资金非常多。

There's a lot of money at stake.

联邦政府每月通过关税收入约300亿美元，而这项裁决推翻了其中大约一半的进口税。

The federal government's been collecting about $30,000,000,000 a month in tariffs, and this ruling strikes down about half those import taxes.

因此，这影响重大，尤其是对那些承担了绝大部分关税的美国企业而言。

So it's a big deal, especially for The US businesses that have been paying the lion's share of these tariffs.

但尽管这项裁决影响重大，关税在政府总收入中仍只占很小一部分，约为5%。

But as big as this ruling is, tariffs are still just a fairly small slice of overall government revenues, about 5%.

因此，如果一半的关税收入消失，将导致联邦赤字扩大，但并不会对美国财政部造成致命打击。

So if half that tariff money goes away, it will mean a larger federal deficit, but it's not a crippling blow for the US treasury.

这些关税以如此随意、多点的方式推出，多次剧烈冲击了全球经济。

These tariffs in the erratic way that they were introduced at so many points really, really jolted the economy around the world so many times.

市场对法院的这一消息有何反应？

How did the market react to the news from the court?

股市上涨了，但涨幅不大。

Stocks rose, but not very much.

与去年全球关税宣布时引发的大规模抛售相比，这次的反应实际上相当平静。

It was actually a pretty muted reaction compared to the big sell off last year when the worldwide tariffs were announced.

也许这是因为投资者相信白宫将用其他更明确的法律授权税收来取代这些被裁定无效的关税。

Maybe that's because investors believe the White House is gonna replace a lot of these outlawed tariffs with other taxes using statutes where the president's authority is more clear.

但正如尼娜指出的，这些其他法律条款也附带了更多限制。

But as Nina points out, those other statutes do come with more strings attached.

它们并没有赋予总统像IEPA法案下那样，以任何理由对任何国家的商品征收无限关税的权力。

They don't give the president the power he claimed to have under IEPA to impose unlimited tariffs on goods from any country for any reason.

今天发生的另一件事是我们获得了新的经济增长数据。

And another thing that happened today is that we got some new numbers on economic growth.

这些数据告诉我们关税对经济产生了什么影响？

What did they tell us about the effect of tariffs on the economy?

去年，经济在特朗普的关税政策下表现得相对稳健。

The economy weathered Trump's tariff campaign in relatively good shape last year.

我们今天了解到，2025年GDP增长了2.2%。

We learned today that GDP grew 2.2% in 2025.

这比前一年略慢一些，但仍然非常可观。

That's a little bit slower than the year before, but perfectly respectable.

尽管特朗普加征了所有这些关税，去年进口量并未下降。

Even with all the taxes Trump piled on though, imports did not go down last year.

实际上还略有上升。

They actually went up a little bit.

在某些情况下，进口商正在转向从其他国家采购，以规避最高的关税税率，但总体贸易表现相当有韧性。

In some cases, importers are buying from different countries as they try to sidestep the highest tariff rates, but overall trade has been pretty resilient.

那些支付了这些关税的公司现在会来申请退款吗？

Are the companies that paid these tariffs gonna be lining up for refunds now?

当然会。

Oh, yeah.

考虑到涉及的资金规模，你可以肯定他们会这么做。

Given the money at stake, I think you can bet on it.

首席大法官罗伯茨今天并未详细说明退款将如何操作，因此下级法院需要解决这个问题。

Chief justice Roberts did not spell out today how refunds might work, so a lower court's gonna have to work that out.

卡瓦诺大法官在异议意见中警告称，这可能会变得一团糟，呼应了口头辩论中出现的评论。

Justice Kavanaugh in his dissent warned it could be a mess, echoing comments that came up during oral arguments.

但我今天与资深贸易律师罗伯特·利奥进行了交谈。

But I spoke today with veteran trade lawyer Robert Leo.

他说，退还这些数十亿美元的税款需要一些工作，但他认为这完全可行。

He says refunding all those tens of billions of dollars will take some work, but he says it's very doable.

这不会是一团糟。

It won't be a mess.

海关已经电子化保存了所有这些信息，我与不少客户沟通过，他们都知道自己支付了多少金额。

Customs has all this information electronically, and I I've talked to a number of our clients, and and they know how much they paid.

你知道，对大多数人来说，填税表可不是什么愉快的事。

You know, for most folks, filling out your taxes is no fun.

但如果你知道自己会拿到退税，你肯定会努力去申请。

But if you know you're gonna get a refund, you will certainly make the effort.

美国全国零售联合会今天发表声明，敦促下级法院确保实现一个顺畅的流程，将错误向进口商收取的款项退还。

The National Retail Federation put out a statement today urging the lower court to ensure what it called a seamless process to refund the money that was wrongly collected from those importers.

尼娜，这个法院长期以来对行政权力一直极为尊重，尤其是在近几年。

Nina, this court has been so deferential to executive power, especially in recent years.

这份判决书让你对法院有什么看法？

What does this opinion tell you about the court?

这表明法院特别关注政府被视为掏空民众口袋的行为。

That it's particularly vigilant about what it views as the government picking people's pockets.

换句话说，这是一起涉及金钱的案件。

In other words, it's a money case.

而多数意见书正是我所说的‘约翰·罗伯茨式’风格。

And the majority opinion is what I would call a John Roberts special.

他撰写了一份简洁的判决，尽可能兼顾了多数大法官的意见，并在最高法院的语境下迅速完成了任务。

He wrote a concise decision, accommodated the justices of the majority as much as necessary, and got the job done in supreme court terms quite quickly.

这项判决明确告诉总统要恪守宪法赋予的职权，但与此同时，罗伯茨的意见仅裁决了必须裁决的部分，并为下级法院提供了清晰的指导，以限制任何试图规避该判决的特朗普式行为。

The decision clearly tells the president to stay in his constitutional lane, but at the same time, Robert's opinion only decides what has to be decided and gives the lower courts clear guidance on how to limit any Trumpian efforts circumvent the opinion.

投票结果是6比3。

It was a six three split.

这个投票结果是如何分布的？

How did that split break down?

罗伯茨的意见得到了法院另外两位保守派大法官、特朗普任命的戈萨奇和巴雷特，以及三位自由派大法官索托马约尔、卡根和杰克逊的支持。

Robert's opinion was joined by two of the court's other conservatives, Trump appointees Gorsuch and Barrett, and the three liberal justices, Sodomayor, Kagan, and Jackson.

与此同时，你看到的是一场深刻的分裂，这种分裂不在于谁赢谁输，而在于他们如何赢或输。

At the same time, what you see is a court that's deeply fractured, not so much about who wins and loses, but how they win or lose.

因此，今天罗伯茨撰写了21页的意见书，但还有四份协同意见书，其中戈萨奇大法官的意见长达46页，而卡瓦诺大法官撰写的反对意见则长达63页。

So today, for instance, Roberts wrote a 21 page opinion, but there were four concurring opinions, one by justice Gorsuch totaling 46 pages, and the dissent that justice Kavanaugh wrote, a 63 pager.

在所有这些大法官中，只有两位——索托马约尔和卡根——没有撰写任何意见书。

And all of these, of all of the justices, only two of them, Sotomayor and Kagan, did not did not write an opinion.

每个人都想发表点意见

Everybody had something to

说。

say.

没错。

Exactly.

这是NPR法律事务记者尼娜·托滕伯格以及我们的首席经济记者斯科特·霍斯利。

That is NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg as well as Scott Horsley, our chief economics correspondent.

谢谢你们两位。

Thanks to both of you.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不客气。

You're welcome.

本集节目由泰勒·巴特兰制作，音频工程由TET和EBay提供。

This episode was produced by Tyler Bartlam with audio engineering from TET and EBay.

本集由克里斯托弗·因塔利亚塔、科特尼·多宁、斯科特·霍斯利和克里斯蒂安·F.编辑。

It was edited by Christopher Intaliata, Courtney Dorning, Scott Horsley, and Christian F.

卡拉莫尔。

Kalamor.

我们的执行制片人是萨米·亚尼根。

Our executive producer, Sami Yanigan.

这是NPR的《就此而言》。

It's Consider This from NPR.

我是斯科特·德特拉。

I'm Scott Dettra.

格陵兰表示，它不出售。

Greenland has said it is not for sale.

丹麦表示，它甚至没有法律权利出售格陵兰。

Denmark has said it can't even legally sell Greenland.

无论特朗普是否能、是否会或应试图控制或购买一个不愿出售的领土，这是一个问题。

And whether Trump can or will or should try to control or purchase a territory that does not wanna be sold is one question.

但在《星球金钱》节目中，我们更感兴趣的是我们是如何走到这一步的，以及我们如何优雅地走出这一局面。

But on Planet Money, we are more interested in how we even got to this moment and how we might gracefully get out of it.

请在NPR应用程式或您收听播客的平台收听《星球金钱》。

Listen to Planet Money on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

在《等待，等待，别告诉我》节目中，重要的不是我们能与名人交谈。

On Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, it's not so much we get to talk to celebrities.

而是我们能与名人谈论其他名人，就像我们与演员内森·莱恩所做的那样。

It's that we get to talk to celebrities about other celebrities like we did with actor Nathan Lane.

我记得不得不告诉乔治·C.

I remember having to tell George C.

斯科特，我要离开这个节目去演这部音乐剧。

Scott that I was leaving the show to do this musical.

他对我说：

And he said to me,

你要丢下我去做一场魔术秀？

you're leaving me to do a magic show?

在NPR应用或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Wait Wait》。

Listen to Wait Wait in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

想在没有广告中断的情况下收听这个播客吗？

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

亚马逊Prime会员可以通过Amazon Music免费收听《Consider This》，或者你也可以支持NPR的重要新闻报道，通过+.npr.org获取《Consider This》Plus版。

Amazon Prime members can listen to consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this plus at +.npr.org.

网址是+.npr.org。

That's +.npr.org.