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大家好，欢迎收听《乡村步道》，这档节目专注于坎布里亚和湖区的自然风光、人文与历史传承。
Hello, and welcome to Country Stride, the podcast dedicated to the landscapes, people and heritage of Cumbria and the Lake District.
今天天气真好，我正身处其中。
I'm here on a beautiful spring day.
经过几周的阴云密布，太阳终于出来了。我现在站在阿什内斯桥上，俯瞰斯基达峰，身旁是作家、插画家，也是今天徒步导览的向导马克·理查兹。
The sun is out after many weeks behind clouds, and I'm standing at Ashness Bridge looking over Skidda in the company of author, illustrator, and our guide for today's walk, Mark Richards.
你好，马克。
Hello, Mark.
你好，戴夫。
Hello, Dave.
今天早上这景色真是太棒了。
It's a magnificent view today, this morning.
斯基达峰顶上只飘着一小片云，斯基达小峰清晰可见，卡尔赛德也一览无余，远处还能望见凯斯威克的上城区。
Skidda has just a cap of cloud, but Skidda Little Man's clear, Carlside is clear, and you can see the upper suburbs of Keswick in the distance.
不过我们现在看到的，是一幅壮丽的全景——法尔康崖、树木、满眼美景，而这个时候，周围几乎一个人影都没有。
But actually, what we're looking at is a grand prospect with Falcon Crag and trees and gorgeousness, and hardly a soul about at this time of day.
前几期节目，我们主要都是在室内录的。
Last couple of podcasts, we've done them mainly indoors.
今天能出来走走真好，马克，咱们今天要爬山。
So great to be out, and we're having a fell walk today, Mark.
咱们这次去哪儿？
Where are we off to?
咱们从这里的阿什内斯桥出发，沿着小路穿过法尔康岩下方，走到大树林。
We're gonna follow the path from here from Ashness Bridge, running underneath Falcon Crag down to Great Wood.
然后往上爬到沃拉岩，再折返回来。
Then we're climbing back up onto Walla Crag, and then cutting back.
这条路线真不错。
It's a fine walk this one.
我们还会去一趟法尔康岩本身。
We'll also go and visit hopefully Falcon Crag itself.
这其实是凯斯威克步行指南里推荐的一条路线。
This is actually one of the walks from Keswick Walking Companions.
我们平时很少直接做推广，但今天这期节目可不是为了这个。
So we don't often do direct plugs, but that's not the subject of today's podcast.
如果非得挑一件让我走出家门、深入这些山野、真正了解它们，并激励我去探索湖区的事物，那一定是阿尔弗雷德·温赖特的图文指南。
If I was to pick a single thing that has got me out into these fells, that has improved my knowledge of them, and that has inspired me, I suppose, to explore the Lake District.
和很多人一样，正是这些指南书深深影响了我。
It's been, as so many others, the pictorial guides of Alfred Wainwright.
它们对我来说意义非凡，而且在这档节目里，我们采访过太多人，他们的生活都因为这些指南书发生了改变。
They've meant so much to me personally, and I mean, on this podcast, we've spoken to so many people whose lives have really been changed by those guidebooks.
这也就是今天这期节目的线索。
And that's the hint for today's podcast.
我们要聊一聊湖区指南书的历史。
We're talking about the history of Lake District guidebooks.
今天，我们请来了一位非常棒的嘉宾，带我们梳理这些指南书的来龙去脉。
And to guide us through those guidebooks, we have a fantastic guest today.
马克，今天我们是跟谁一起走呢？
Who are we walking with, Mark?
今天我们非常荣幸地邀请到莉兹·伍德汉姆，她花了大量精力研究指南书的发展历程、历史传承，以及它们如何适应每一代人的需求。
We have the very great pleasure of Liz Woodham, who has put a lot of work into studying the progression and the heritage and how guidebooks have evolved to suit each generation.
莉兹的研究从哈丽特·马蒂诺开始，追溯到过往的播客中提到的那些经典，一路延伸到铁路时代大受欢迎的巴德利指南书。
Liz's studies go all the way back to Harriet Martineau, see podcasts past, moves all the way through some of those really big selling guidebooks as Baddeley in the age of rail.
比如凯斯威克的亨利·艾尔温·詹金森，他是凯斯威克历史上举足轻重的人物。
People like Henry Irwin Jenkinson of Keswick, towering figure in the history of Keswick.
还有像H.这样重要的倡导者。
People like the great campaigner H.
H.
H.
西蒙斯。
Simmons.
当然，还有AW。
And then, of course, yes, AW.
他们对山地的解读各不相同，而出版方式如何随着读者群体的变化而演变，也十分值得探讨——最终，我们走向了你我都很熟悉、也是我敬仰的偶像之一：AW。
They interpret the Fells in different ways, and there's so much of interest to say about how publishing changes as the audience itself changes, and the Fells get an ever more specialist form of guidebook leading up to somebody who you knew in life and one of my heroes, AW.
有好多内容值得深入探讨。
So lots to get our teeth into.
今天天气简直太棒了。
We've got a fabulous day for it.
我们走的这条路线也特别精彩。
We've got a fabulous route.
咱们离开阿什内斯桥，开始今天的徒步之旅吧。
Let's leave Ashness Bridge and go and begin today's country stride.
我们才刚走了几步。
Well we've walked just a few paces.
还停在阿什内斯溪边，离桥没多远。
We're still beside Ashness Beck, just short of the bridge.
眼前这景色太美了，丽兹，能不能给听众们简单讲讲你的背景？
We've got that marvelous view in front of us and it'll be lovely, Liz, if you could give listeners a little bit of backstory on yourself.
我叫丽兹·伍德汉。
So my name's Liz Woodham.
我住在坎布里亚北部的斯基达。
I live in North Cumbria back at Skidda.
我们大约二十年前搬到这里，很大程度上是因为阿尔弗雷德·温赖特。
We moved up here about twenty years ago, and a lot of that's to do with Alfred Wainwright.
以前我们在伦敦工作，每天坐地铁时靠他的图解指南保持清醒，同时也翻看那些书，寻找下一次山野冒险的目标。
We used to work in London, spent a lot of time on the tube with the pictorial guides keeping me sane, but also reading them and looking for the next adventure in the hills.
几年后，我们全家搬到了北湖区。
Fast forward a few years, we've moved as a family up to the Northern Lake District.
我自己已经走完了温赖特路线的大部分，还剩最后一条，接下来的节目里我可能会告诉戴夫和马克是哪一条。
I've personally walked most of the Wainwright, so I've got one left and over the course of the podcast I might tell Dave and Mark which one it is.
我很幸运，在兰卡斯特大学攻读了山地徒步的博士学位。
I've been fortunate enough to study for a PhD in fell walking at our University of Lancaster.
这对我来说真是个惊喜，我虽然写过导览书，也一直想当个导览书作者。
This is going to be a revelation to me as a guidebook writer or somebody who's always aspired to be a guidebook writer.
我确实有了一些成就，但离阿尔弗雷德·温赖特的水准还差得远。
I've achieved it to some degree, but nowhere near to the standard of Alfred Wainwright.
咱们现在穿过这片稀疏的白桦林，开始走第一段路，身边还带着我们的小狗莱利。
So let's make our first strides as we go through the light birch wood, and we've got a little dog with us, Riley.
我不是一个人在走。
I'm not alone.
我正看着山坡上这些挺拔的白桦树。
I'm looking through all these birch trees that adorn this slope.
一年四季，这里的感觉都不一样。
At different times of the year, you get a different sensation here.
现在蕨草都枯了，但到了夏天，这片绿意可浓了。
Of course, bracken is at the moment dead, but in the summer, it's a rich green here.
我还想多感受点这样的美好。
I want some more riches.
我特别想了解指南书是怎么一步步发展起来的。
I would like to have some sense of the emergence of guidebooks.
这真是个特别有意思的问题。
It's a really interesting question mark.
我们其实应该先明确一下，在这个播客里，我们说的‘指南书’到底指的是什么，因为有些书你或许可以称它们为指南。
Where we ought to start really is defining what we mean for purposes of this podcast, by a guidebook, because you have some volumes that you could perhaps call guides in a way.
那指南和指南书之间又有什么区别呢？
And then what's the difference between a guide and a guidebook?
就我的研究而言，指南书的关键在于它非常实用，包含大量关于如何游览该地区、该去哪里、行程安排的信息，比如哈丽特·马蒂诺的那本指南，我们待会儿会提到。
For the purposes of my research, it really comes down to a guidebook being a volume that's quite practical, includes a lot of information about how to see the district, where to go, itineraries, even in the case of Harriet Martineau's guide, we'll talk about shortly.
它是最早一批详细列出住宿地点、哪些旅店、以及实际花费的指南书之一。
One of the first guidebooks to include information as detailed as where to stay, which inns, and what it would actually cost you.
我想我们还得聊聊山地徒步。
I suppose we also ought to talk about fell walking.
阿尔弗雷德·温赖特听了可能不太高兴，因为在他看来，这不过是件很简单的事——一步接着一步走，专心看脚下该踩哪儿。
Alfred Wainwright probably wouldn't be very happy with me about mentioning because in his view, was a very simple exercise, just putting one foot in front of the other and watching where you put them on the ground.
没错。
Absolutely.
但如果你查牛津英语词典，就会发现它解释了为什么这种活动特别跟英格兰这片区域、或者说西北部挂钩。
But if you look at the Oxford English Dictionary, it gets into why it's associated particularly with this corner of England or the Northwest Of England anyway.
因为牛津词典的定义提到，这是一种在崎岖地形上行走的活动，尤其常见于英格兰西北部。
Because the OAD definition talks about it being a practice of walking over rough ground, typically in the Northwest Of England.
‘fell’这个词的词源来自古诺尔斯语的‘fjall’。
The etymology of the word fell, which is from Fial, a Norse word.
大多数名字里带‘fell’的山丘都集中在这个区域，比如阿兰十字峰的那只山羊峰，但那已经出了国家公园的范围。
Most hills with word fell in their name are in this area, rather than, for example, this goat fell on Arran Cross Fell, but that's just outside the national park.
因此，登山徒步和湖区之间有着很强的关联，而这些指南书籍也一直在推广和鼓励这种活动。
So there is quite a strong association between fell walking and the Lake District, which guidebooks promote and encourage.
在哈丽特·马蒂诺出现之前，其实已经有真正的向导了——就是当地一些农民，他们专门带人上山。
Before Harriet Martineau comes on the scene, there were actual guides, people physically, farmers who took on the role.
没错。
Indeed.
那时候，人们上山主要就是靠这些向导带路。
And that was the main way in which people got onto the Fells.
如果你看看一些早期的指南，比如托马斯·韦斯特写的那本第一本湖区指南，里面的内容主要是围绕坐马车游览湖区的路线安排。
If you look at some of the early guides, and I think Thomas West's guide, the first guidebook to the lakes, it's very much an itinerary based on navigating the district in a carriage.
他带读者去的大多数观景点，连成一条路线的，海拔都相对较低。
Most of the viewing stations, he takes his readers to, and it's an itinerary that links them, are typically of a lower elevation.
卡斯尔克雷格是个例外，它位于博罗代尔的峡谷里，但那种看风景的方式完全不同，也更偏向被动一些。
Castle Crag is an exception in the jaws of Borrowdale, but it's very much a different way of looking at the landscape, and it's a more, potentially, a more passive way.
就是单纯地看风景。
It's viewing it.
你知道克利夫那个观景点吧，有不同颜色的玻璃窗，你可以站在那儿，感受春天、夏天、秋天和冬天的景色变化。
You'll know the viewing station at Clif with the different colored windows, so you can stand there and see it in spring, summer, autumn, and winter.
如果你再往后看安妮·拉德克利夫和华兹华斯的指南，华兹华斯那本的前身最早是1810年出版的。
If you move on to the guides of Anne Radcliffe and Wordsworth's guide, the predecessor text of which was first published in 1810.
虽然它们算不上真正的徒步指南，没有详细的路线说明，但已经开始引导人们以更主动的方式去体验湖区的风景，比如拉德克利夫对斯基达峰的描写。
And though they're not guides to walking the district per se, they don't have detailed walk directions, they do begin to suggest a different way of engaging with the landscape of the district that's more active, particularly Radcliffe's scent of Skidda, for example.
她当时是骑着小马，带着向导去的，那会儿都是这么干的。
She does that with a guide on a pony, which was the way in those days.
她确实登上了山顶，体验也完全不一样，不再是只坐在马车里看窗外，或者站在观景台干巴巴地眺望。
She did get to the top, and she should have a different experience, which wasn't just purely about looking out of the window of your carriage or going to a viewing station and looking at the view.
不过，华兹华斯的第二版指南，显然是一个徒步者写的。
Wordsworth's Guide two, though, is obviously a guide written by a walker.
但它未必是为徒步者写的。
It's not necessarily a guide for walkers.
里面同样没有详细的徒步路线指引。
Again, no detailed walk directions in it.
但到了第三版，书里出现了一个登山的亮点，其实就是多萝西·华兹华斯记录的攀登斯科费尔峰的经历。
But by the third edition, there's a mountain centerpiece, which is actually Dorothy Wordsworth's account of the ascent of Scofell Pike.
而且这本书也越来越适合在路上使用，因为它的体积缩小了，从原本重达七磅的厚书，变成了更轻便、能轻松放进口袋里的大小。
And there's also a sense that this book is becoming used much more on the move because the actual size of it is reduced from a volume that weighs something like seven pounds to something that is much more portable and capable of being potentially carried in a large pocket anyway.
所以我们现在看到的是早期游客和旅行者的情况。
So we've got the context of, the early visitors, the early travelers.
他们坐着马车前来。
They came in carriages.
他们从较低的海拔观赏风景，身边还有向导带领，提供视角和本地知识——当然，这也为马蒂诺的出现铺平了道路。
They looked at the landscape from lower elevations, and they had people to actually guide them around and give them the sense of perspective and local knowledge, which, of course, paved the way for Martineau.
让我们继续这段小徒步，前方的斯基达山在晴朗的蓝天下激励着我们。
Let's continue our little trek with Skidda ahead of us inspiring us on a glorious blue sky day.
鸟儿们欢快极了。
The birds are absolutely joyous.
虽然才三月初，可它们好像觉得春天已经来了，正迎来属于它们的精彩时节。
I know it's early March, but they think it's spring, and they're leading into exciting time for them.
我们刚从法尔康崖的两层岩壁下走过，那壮观的景象就在头顶，真是令人心潮澎湃。
It's an exciting time for us having just come underneath the two tiers of Falcon Crag, which are quite stupendous above us.
事实上，等会儿走一段，我们还会登上上层岩壁的顶峰石堆，那感觉简直太美妙了。
In fact, later on in the walk, we're going to get onto the summit cairn of the upper tier, is really magic.
既然已经了解了游客们的背景，现在咱们来仔细看看第一位导游书作者——哈丽特·马蒂诺。
Anyway, having got that context of the tourist's background, let's take a keen eyed look at our first guidebook writer Harriet Martineau.
哈丽特·马蒂诺是个外来者。
Harriet Martineau was an offcomer.
她于1845年搬到湖区，此前经历了长期病痛，严重到几乎只能卧床休养。
She moved to the Lake District in 1845 after a prolonged period of illness, which was so debilitating that she was confined, to a sick room.
她是一名记者、作家，写过很多书，尤其专注于政治经济学。
She was a journalist, a writer, author of many books, particularly on, political economy.
她认为，徒步是观察人们生活方式的绝佳方式。
She believed that walking was a really good way to observe people and how they lived.
她是一位开创性的社会学家。
She's a pioneering sociologist.
她于1845年搬到安布赛德，主要是为了庆祝自己康复，还曾 famously 说，她想真正了解这些湖泊，而她是靠步行一步步认识它们的。
She moved to Ambleside in 1845, really in celebration of becoming well again, and famously said that she wanted to learn the lakes, and she learned the lakes on foot by walking.
1845年7月，她在写给拉尔夫·沃尔多·爱默生的信中说：我骑马像寄宿生，走路像小贩，爬山像登山者，有时和友善愉快的邻居结伴出游，有时一整天独自在山上漫步。
Writing to Ralph Waldo Emerson in July 1845, she said, I ride like a boarderer, walk like a peddler, climb like a mountaineer, sometimes on excursions with kind and merry neighbors, sometimes all alone for the day on the Mountain.
我再也离不开这片土地了。
I cannot leave this region.
伦敦得让位了。
London must give way.
她所从事的徒步本身并不算特别，但作为一个出身相应社会阶层的女性，她的做法确实不寻常。
She wasn't exceptional for the sort of walking that she did, but she was unusual for a woman of her social standing, I suppose.
她一直独居，终身未嫁。
She lived alone, she never married.
她和一连串的侄子侄女住在一起。
She lived with a succession of nieces and nephews.
她的侄女玛丽亚接手了修订完整指南的工作，因为指南刚完成不久，她就被诊断出患有心脏病。
Her niece Maria took on editing the complete guide because very soon after she'd finished it, was diagnosed with a heart condition.
她撰写的这本《湖区完全指南》，最终变成了一家人共同参与的事业。
The guidebook she wrote, Her Complete Guide to Lakes, effectively became a family affair.
我选择以马蒂诺为开端，是因为她的指南是第一本谈论独自徒步山地、不带向导的旅行指南。
I chose Martineau to begin because her guide is the first guidebook to talk about fell walking, going without a guide, and going alone.
从这个意义上说，她对山地徒步的描述带有一种理想化的色彩。
Now, her account of fell walking is aspirational in that sense.
她的路线指引远不如我们后面要讲的那些后续指南那么详尽。
Her route directions were nowhere near as detailed as the subsequent guidebooks that we'll look at.
但我之所以从她开始，是因为她的《完全指南》里有一段特别动人的内容，叫‘山中一日’，她鼓励读者独自前往费尔菲尔德，不带向导，去真正体会我们今天所感受到的那份意境。
But the reason I started with her is because she has a lovely section in her complete guide, a day on the mountains, it's called, where she encourages her readers to go on to Fairfield alone and without a guide to really experience what we're finding today.
好天气。
The beautiful weather.
作为马蒂诺，她确实强调要选天气安全的时候去，必须能见度良好。
She does say being Martineau, it's important to go when it's safe, so you have to have conditions of clear visibility.
她很实际地列出了该带的东西，但描述独自徒步峰区时，文字却格外诗意。
She lists things to take with you quite practically, but she talks quite lyrically about what an expedition onto the Fells alone can be like.
她会提到溪水的声音。
And she'll talk about the sound of the stream.
她会提到鸟鸣。
She'll talk about the birdsong.
她会提到，一旦翻过第一道石墙，就能听到一只孤羊的叫声，那种自由感，是别处找不到的。
She'll talk about the bleat of a solitary lamb that once you get beyond the first intake wall, you experience a sort of freedom that you won't find anywhere else.
她选择菲尔菲尔德是有原因的，部分是因为，正如我提过的，她并不是本地人。
There were reasons, for her choice of Fairfield, and part of it is because, as I've mentioned, she was an offcomer to the district.
我想，她其实是想表明自己是个本地人、本地作家，要知道，她当时竞争的对象可是华兹华斯的指南。
What she was trying to do, I think, was to say that she was a local and a local writer because bear in mind, a guidebook in a sense that she was competing with was Wordsworth's guide.
她想把自己和华兹华斯并列，写进湖区的文学地图里，同时也想表明，她的指南有些不一样。
She was trying to put herself on a literary map of the Lake District alongside Wordsworth, but also perhaps to say that her guide was a bit different.
她写这本指南的时候，正是湖区发生巨大变化的时期。
The time that she was writing this guide was a time of change in the district.
她和温德米尔的出版商约翰·加内特一起，推出了这本指南。
She and her publisher, John Garnett of Windermere, came up with a guidebook.
事实上，我觉得是加内特主动去找的马丁诺。
I do in fact, I think it was Garnett that actually approached Martineau.
马丁诺给加内特写过一封信，提到他们的计划是加入比以往更多的实用信息，因为游客越来越多，铁路的开通也让这片地区发生了巨大变化。
And there's a letter that Martineau writes to Garnett, and she talks about their plan being to include more facts than ever before because of the increasing number of visitors, because of how much the district has changed because of the railway coming.
所以，她在徒步登山建议中体现的那些想法，某种程度上正是那个变革时代的反映。
So I think that what she was doing with her advice on fell walking in a sense partly reflects that time of change.
一方面，她通过步行深入了解了这片土地，现在她想告诉别人：这就是我的亲身经历。
On the one hand, she's learned to know the district on foot, and she's saying to people, this is my experience.
来吧，好好感受一下。
Come and enjoy it.
另一方面，她很清楚自己写的是给那些可能从未踏足过山脊、甚至没来过这个地区的人看的。
And on the other hand, she's conscious that she's writing for people who potentially have never been on the Fells before, perhaps never visited the region.
这是一本正式出版的指南。
It's a published guidebook.
所以她给出的很多建议都是关于找向导，比如去斯基达这样的地方。
So a lot of the advice is about taking a guide to places like Skidda, for example.
她提到迷路有多容易，还有一句特别生动的话：那些自信又开心的徒步者，往往是最难被教导的人。
She talks about how easy it is to get lost, she has this lovely phrase that the confident and joyous pedestrian is not the most teachable of human beings.
她所说的，正是像今天这样的天气带来的那种感觉。
What she's talking about is that sense of a day like today.
天气晴朗。
It's bright.
阳光明媚。
It's sunny.
你觉得自己几乎能搞定任何事。
You think you can do anything almost.
就是这种天气，最容易在山地里出大问题。
And those are the sort of days where it's easy to go terribly wrong on Fells.
马克在一旁点头表示赞同。
Mark's nodding in agreement.
确实如此。
Yeah.
我以前也去过一些熟悉的地方。
I've been on familiar places.
有一次在雾里登上克罗斯峰，我绕了一整圈，简直不敢相信。
I was on Cross Fell once in the mist, and I went around in a complete circle, and I could not believe it.
一点不假。
Absolutely.
马蒂诺的指南书里提到过一个很有趣的例子，她回忆起更早之前的一件事。
And there's an interesting example in Martineau's guidebook where she recalls a much earlier incident.
他们请了一位牧羊人当向导，从恩纳代尔穿越弗鲁顿山口，前往克罗姆克湖。
They hired a shepherd guide to cross from Ennerdale to Crommock Water over Fluton Pass.
她提到天气突然变了，他们被一场暴风雨困住了——顺便说一句，这正是很多指南作者常提到的情形。
She talks about suddenly the weather changing, that they were caught in a storm, which incidentally, it's one of those things that a lot of guidebook writers talk about.
我觉得托马斯·哈钦森在18世纪70年代被暴风雨打趴在斯基达山上，算是开了这个先例。
Thomas Hutchinson, I think, starts the trend by being flattened on Skidda in the seventeen seventies.
这简直成了一种必经的体验。
And it's almost like an obligatory experience.
人们总得经历这种当时苦不堪言、事后却津津乐道的‘二类乐趣’。
People have to have the type two fun that they cannot enjoy at the time, but tell everybody about afterwards.
马蒂诺明确提到，冰雹砸在身上，雨水彻底浇透了他们。
And Martineau definitely is talking about hailstones pounding on them, the rain sort of absolutely drenching them.
他们在极度狼狈中硬是往前走了将近六公里。
They plunge on in misery almost for four miles.
但她强调，真正让他们平安脱险的是那位牧羊向导，他始终稳稳地走着那不紧不慢的步子，这总让我想起韦恩赖特。
But she's saying the thing that keeps them safe is the shepherd's guide, he carries on with this tidy unhurried gate which always reminds me of Wainwright actually.
你能提醒一下，铁路是什么时候通到那里的？这对游客的构成有什么影响？
Can you remind us when the railways actually arrived and how does this affect the demographic of visitors?
铁路在1845年通到了当时叫伯斯韦特的地方，后来那里改名为温德米尔。
The railway arrived in what was known as Berthwaite which became Windermere in 1845.
从科克茅斯到凯斯威克和彭里斯的铁路直到1865年才对乘客开放，所以北湖区和南湖区在铁路交通上差了不小一段距离。
The Kochermouth to Keswick and Penrith railway opens to passenger traffic in 1865 so there's quite a big gap there between the North Lakes, if you like, and the South Lakes getting railway transport.
研究交通与旅游历史的学者指出，虽然铁路对当地常住人口的影响，不像西海岸工业化（比如巴罗和炼铁厂）那么大，但铁路带来的经济收益，主要集中在那些位于马车路线沿线、或拥有专属马车服务和向导的酒店附近。
Historians who have researched histories of transport and tourism have made the point that though the railways didn't have such a big impact in terms of population, like resident population, as for example, industrialization on the West Coast, particularly centered around Barrow and the ironworks, what they did do, the economic benefits that railways bore tended to be concentrated on areas that were on carriage routes and or hotels that had their own carriage routes or had their own guides.
旅游配套设施开始逐步建立，这一点很重要，因为我们总在说徒步和旅游，但其实直到1865年，凯斯威克在交通上还相对落后，它吸引的游客群体更偏向社会精英，而安布尔斯ide和温德米尔则主要吸引乘火车来的当日游客。
A tourist infrastructure begins to build up and that's important because we talk about full walking and tourism but actually until 1865 Keswick was in effect relatively disadvantaged, and it had a tradition of being a much more socially elite population of visitors that came to Keswick versus day trippers going to Ambleside and to Windermere drawn by the railway.
大伍德的停车场正在翻新，我们就想，哎，既然都上到卡特了，谁要是了解卡特溪的话……
As the car park is being resurfaced in Great Wood, we thought, oh well we've got up Cat Anybody who knows anything about Cat Gill.
卡特溪下山可吓人了，可咱们现在不是玩得挺开心的吗？
Gill knows it's a horror to come down, but we're enjoying it aren't we?
没错。
Absolutely.
当然了，完全没错。
Yeah absolutely.
好吧，咱们来聊聊英国湖区导游手册史上另一位重要人物——来自凯斯威克的亨利·欧文·詹金森。
Yeah let's let's turn our mind to another colossal figure in the history of English Lake District guidebooks, Henry Irwin Jenkinson of Keswick.
亨利·欧文·詹金森，也是个搬到湖区来的外乡人。
Henry Irwin Jenkinson, another offcomer to the district.
他27岁那年从约克郡搬到这里。
He moved here at the age of 27 from Yorkshire.
后来他成了凯斯威克车站的第二任站长。
He became the second station master of Keswick Station.
我研究他的导游手册时遇到一个难题：为什么整整126页里，有三分之二都在讲凯斯威克及其周边，这比第二多的温德米尔地区还多出一倍以上。
One of the difficulties I had when I was researching his guidebook, because I spent quite a long time pondering why two thirds a 126 pages of it is on Keswick and its surroundings, which is more than double the next largest section in Windermere.
传统上，导游书更侧重温德米尔和安布尔斯代这一线——你可以这么叫吧，也就是湖区的南部。
And traditionally, guidebooks had focused much more on the Windermere Ambleside axis, if I can call it that, the Southern Lake District.
他搬到这儿之后，不仅写导游书，还为凯斯威克镇做了大量贡献。
He was a man who moved here and did a huge amount for the town of Keswick as well as being a guidebook writer.
他就是那种维多利亚时代典型的人物，你一看就会想：他怎么可能把这么多事都做完？
He's one of those great Victorian lives that you look at, and you think, how is it possible that he fitted it all in?
他结识了出版商爱德华·斯坦福爵士。
He met sir Edward Stanford, who was a publisher.
斯坦福的地图至今还在发行。
Stanford maps still going.
詹金森向斯坦福爵士提过想写一本指南书，对方鼓励了他。
Jenkinson mentioned his desire to write a guidebook, and sir Edward Stanford encouraged him.
大概九个月后，他就完成了，期间走了大量的路。
And nine months, I think, later, he'd produced it, and it involved an incredible amount of walking.
他秋天开始这项工作，一路走过冬天，对细节的专注程度跟阿尔弗雷德·韦恩怀特不相上下。
He started it in the autumn, walked through a winter, very similar level of attention to detail as Alfred Wainwright.
我记得他登过大盖布尔峰。
I think he climbed Great Gable.
有记录显示，他为了确认路线，一共登了九次。
He's on record as climbing it nine times to get the route correct.
他对工作极其投入，后来凭借1872年出版的这本实用指南取得了成功，这本书一连出了九版。
So very, very committed to his work and wrote on the back of the success of the practical guide, which was published in 1872 and went to nine editions.
他还写了其他关于湖区及各地的指南书。
He wrote other guidebooks to the Lake District and elsewhere.
我觉得最远的一本可能是关于怀特岛的。
I think the furthest away is probably the Isle Of Wight.
我作为作家取得了成功，但也一直想回报那个成为他第二故乡的小镇。
So I enjoyed success as a writer, but also enjoyed, I think, giving back to the town that had become his adopted hometown.
他积极推动保护基斯威克博物馆所在区域的那片田野。
He was instrumental in saving the fields around where the Keswick Museum is located.
如今那片地成了菲茨公园，作为镇上的公共绿地，因为当时有人想把地卖了盖房子——大概是因为1865年铁路通了之后，基斯威克对住宅和度假屋的需求大涨。
It has now become Fitz Park for the town as an open space because they were under threat of being sold off for building plots, presumably because the railway having arrived in 1865 had increased the demand, for residences and potentially tourist residences in Keswick.
他还发起了一项为镇上老人举办的聚餐活动，持续了好几年。
He also instigated an old folks dinner for the town, which ran for a number of years.
他认识劳恩斯利先生。
He knew Rawnsley, H.
D。
D.
劳恩斯利还参与了凯斯威克步道保护协会，这个协会是他重新组建的，为了解决凯斯威克地区的小径纠纷，而詹金森本人则带领了拉特里格山的集体徒步抗议活动。
Rawnsley, and he was involved in the Keswick footpath preservation society, which Rawnsley reconstituted or refounded to address footpath disputes in the Keswick area and Jenkinson actually led the Latrigg Fell Mass Trespass.
凯斯威克小镇非常感谢亨利·欧文·詹金森，而我相信，亨利·欧文·詹金森也会说，他同样深深感谢凯斯威克这片土地。
Keswick has a lot to thank Henry Irwin Jenkinson for and I think Henry Irwin Jenkinson would say that he had a lot to thank the town of Keswick for.
他的旅游指南在风格和实用性上，相比马丁诺的版本有哪些进步？
How was his guidebook advancing in style and effect from Martineau?
最主要的区别在于，他加入了具体的徒步路线指引。
The main difference is the inclusion of practical walking route directions.
比如我们刚才部分攀登过的卡特吉尔，就是个典型的例子。
Cat Gill, which we've partially ascended, is an example of that.
看看马丁诺的指南，她提到了我们最终要去的瓦拉克雷格，还提到那里长满了蕨类植物。
Looking at Martineau's guide, she mentions Walla Crag where we're ultimately headed, and she mentions the ferns growing.
但她根本没有给出攀登瓦拉克雷格的具体路线。
She doesn't actually have an ascent route of Walla Crag.
相比之下，詹金森的指南明确规划了从拉克小径上山、再沿卡特吉尔下山的路线，还详细描述了山顶的景色。
In contrast, Jenkinson has an ascent via rake foot descent down Cat Gill, and he talks about the views from the top.
所以詹金森提供的路线指引要详细得多，差别很明显。
So there's quite a difference in terms of the directions that Jenkinson gives very much more detailed.
我亲自试过按他的指引走，整体上在实地是完全可行的。
I have tried following them, and they do work broadly on the ground.
他因为对山地了如指掌，曾被请去参与一次早期的山地救援，担任专家。
He was acknowledged to have such an extensive knowledge of the fells that he was actually called in as an expert in an early mountain rescue.
一位名叫爱德华·巴纳德的伦敦金银匠，在从沃斯代尔返回时迷了路。
I am a London silversmith or goldsmith called Edward Barnard was lost coming back from Wausdale.
可惜他的遗体后来在恩纳代尔被发现，显然是偏离了路线。当时请来詹金森，是因为他的本地知识据说不输当地的牧羊向导。
Sadly, his body was found in Ennardale having gone off route, but Jenkinson was called in because his local knowledge was said to rival that of the local shepherd guides.
你看，这正是从请向导徒步转向靠指南书独自出行的转折点。
So here you have somebody who's beginning that transition from going walking with a guide to going walking with a guidebook.
这样一来，那些没时间、没闲钱请向导上山的人，也能买一本詹金森的指南书，自己独自前往。
And what that does is open up to people who hadn't got material resources in terms of time or leisure to afford a guide to take them onto the hills a day, but they could actually buy one of Jenkinson's guidebooks and go by themselves.
这大大扩展了能参与山地徒步的人群范围。
And that opens up the demographic of people who could go fell walking.
那时候徒步的人也没有地图，是吧？
And they didn't have maps, walkers, did they?
这个观点很有意思，马克，因为地图绘制起了关键作用，接下来在《骑士骑行者》里我们会谈到这个，M。
It's a really interesting comment, Mark, because cartography plays a huge role, and we'll talk about that next on Knight Strider, M.
J。
J.
B。
B.
巴德利。
Baddeley.
但地图的出现，极大地丰富了指南书能用来指引路线的内容。
But cartography makes a really massive change to the apparatus, if you like, that guidebooks can include to direct someone.
当马蒂诺在写作时，英国地形测量局已经用一英寸代表一英里的比例尺绘制了英格兰湖区的地图。
When Martineau was writing, the ordinate survey had mapped the English Lake District in a, a scale of one inch to a mile.
这个比例并不算特别精细。
It's not a detailed scale.
到1868年，官方测绘已经完成了对英格兰湖区更精细的测绘，这样一来，地图就能缩小后放进指南书里，读者在按指示行走时，还能通过图上的视觉线索来确认路线。
By 1868, the ordinate surveys completed a much more detailed mapping exercise of English Lake District, which then means that the maps can be shrunk and put into guidebooks with a degree of knowledge that the directions that you're giving somebody have also got a visual cue that they can find and follow.
你刚才提到了巴德利，我以前试着看那些小字，印象挺深的。
Now you mentioned Baddeley there, and I've got fond memories of trying to look at that small print.
你能说说这位先生的事吗？
Can you describe something about that gentleman?
巴德利是在人生第二阶段搬到湖区的。
So Baddeley moved the district as a second career.
他全身心投入指南书的撰写，还积极推广湖区的旅游。
He devoted himself when he was here to full time guidebook writing and also promoting the district for tourism.
他是英格兰湖区协会的成员，杰金森也是，事实上。
He was a member of the English Lake District Association, which, Jenkinson was too, actually.
所以我们推测他们应该是认识的。
So we assume they knew each other.
他们还担任着相似的公共职务和责任。
They also had similar civic roles, responsibilities.
巴德利曾担任他居住的布朗斯地方委员会主席，直到十九世纪九十年代初。
Baddeley was chairman of the local board in Bowness where he lived until the early eighteen nineties.
那巴德利的指南书后来怎么样了？
What happens with Baddeley's guidebooks?
它成了英格兰湖区流传最久的指南书之一。
It becomes one of the most long lived guidebooks in the English Lake District.
最早的一版出版于1880年。
It was first published in 1880.
最后一版是1978年出的。
The last edition was 1978.
从那以后，这本书改了不少，变化挺大的。
Now it's changed, and it's morphed quite a lot since then.
换过好几任编辑，也经过多家出版社接手。
It's had a number of editors, a number of publishing houses have looked after it.
但如果你读1978年的版本，还是能明显看出不少内容跟1880年原版一模一样。
But if you read that nineteen seventy eight edition, there's parts of that that are still recognizably badly from the 1880 edition.
所以这是一本特别有意思的书。
So it's an absolutely fascinating book.
它其实想同时做两件事。
It's trying to do two things.
巴德利的这本指南不仅提供了大量关于当地的信息，还包含了丰富的徒步路线内容。通常，像马克提到的那种极小的印刷字体里，我翻过一半的增补内容，明显能看出徒步路线的信息在不断扩展。
Baddeley also has the sense of sort of still doing a guidebook that tells you a lot of information about the district, but there's also a lot of information about walking, Typically, in the, the very small print that Mark's talking about, I've looked at half of the additions, and there's definitely a trend that the walking route information expands in that guidebook.
另外，因为这本书商业上非常成功，广告也越来越多。
Also, because it was so commercially successful, so do the adverts.
我觉得巴德利的指南书里存在一种张力：一方面是受欢迎程度，另一方面是怎么真正有效地传递信息。
I think there's a tension there in Baddeley's guidebook between popularity and and what that means and how you actually communicate information.
巴德利指南书另一个显著的创新，是首次采用了印刷分层着色技术。
The other innovation that Baddeley's guidebook is very notable for is the first use of printed layer coloring.
就像现在的哈维地图，用不同颜色表示不同海拔和等高线。
So like the modern Harvey map where you have the different colors for different heights and contours.
巴德利的这本指南书，是第一个使用这种技术的。
Baddeley's guidebook is the first to have that.
实际上，那本指南里的地图是由巴索洛缪地图公司绘制的。
And it's the cartographers Bartholomew who actually are responsible for the maps in that guidebook.
但突然之间，你手上这本指南有了精准的地图。
But all of a sudden you have a guidebook where you've got accurate maps.
地面的起伏轮廓一眼就能看清楚。
You can see relatively easily the contours of the ground.
你能提前知道徒步路线的坡度和难度。
You can see the potential heights and difficulties of the walk that you're going to undertake.
所以在卡特吉尔的底部，你看到地图上的阴影，可能会想：算了，咱们还是绕道拉克脚吧。
So you might reasonably, at the bottom of Cat Gill, look at the shading and say, I think we'll go around via rake foot, actually.
这本指南在图示和文字说明上都很用心，因为巴德利不仅在前面放了折叠大图，还加入了分段地图。
You've got a guidebook there that's actually making it from an illustration point of view and the accompanying text point of view because Baddeley puts in sectional maps as well as the fold up map at the front.
这样一来，方向指引和图示之间的对照就清晰多了。
You've got a much easier reference of directions to illustration.
另外我觉得特别有意思的是，巴德利指南的末尾有一部分专门讲‘山地’。
The other things that I think that they're particularly interesting for, there's a section called the Fells in Baddeley's guidebook towards the end.
大概有二十六页。
It's about 26 pages.
占不了指南书的很大一部分，但这一点点内容已经隐约让我想到温赖特的图解指南了，因为他会用文字描述整座山丘。
It's not a huge amount of the guidebook, but what that is is almost embryonically, it begins to remind me slightly of Wainwright in the pictorial guides because he has a a word description of the fell.
然后他会讲上山的路线。
Then he talks about ascent routes.
再聊聊山顶的情况。
He talks about the summit.
还会说说山顶的景色。
Talks a bit about the views.
最后讲怎么下山。
He talks about the way down.
所以某种程度上，这已经算是图解指南传统的一部分了。
So there's almost a sense there that that's part of the heritage in the sense of the pictorial guides.
巴德利把这些山丘整理成一个章节，告诉你从其他地方出发能走哪些路线。
Baddeley is pulling those fells together into a section and saying, here's all the walks you can do from other areas.
并不是所有的路线都是山地徒步。
They're not all fell walks.
有些路线海拔比较低。
Some of them are a lower level.
但在这一片山地部分，已经开始聚焦于海拔高度和最佳攀登路线。
But in this fell section, there is beginning to be a focus on the heights and on the best ways of sending them.
而且，他选中的这些路线，可能正是最受欢迎的。
And potentially, you know, the ones he includes are perhaps the most popular.
里面或许也包含了一些他个人特别喜欢的。
Perhaps there's some of his favorites in there.
我们不得而知。
We don't know.
但很明显，山地徒步的倾向正在显现，尤其是对更高山峰的关注。
But there's definitely focus on fell walking beginning to come through and on the the higher fells.
沃恩赖特看到这些时，应该就突然明白了。
The penny would have dropped in Wainwright's mind when he looked at that.
实际上，他确实把这部分充实成了对每座山的具体描述，并且明确定义了什么是山岭。
Actually, I can fill this up and make it into a full expression of each individual fell and define fells, which he did.
你能统计出马丁诺和巴德利两人总共覆盖了多少座山岭吗？
Can you quantify the number of fells that Martineau and Baddeley covered?
马丁诺的指南书里有一张山岭列表。
Martineau has a table of fells in her guidebook.
列了26座，每座只写了名字和海拔高度。
There's 26, literally just the name of the fell and the height.
这种信息风格和湖泊的深度、山口的高度之类的资料是一致的。
And that's of a piece with information such as the depth of the lake, so the height of the mountain passes.
巴德利的指南书中，山岭部分提到的大概不到20座，不过其他地方也零星提到了一些。
Baddeley has, I think, less than 20 fells in the fell section of his guidebook, though others are mentioned.
但他的指南书中这个初步的山岭章节，显然远少于温赖特的214座，或者理查兹的230座，我记得是这样。
But this embryonic section of his guidebook is certainly significantly less, than the two fourteen Wainwrights or the, two thirty Richards, I believe.
超过五百万次登顶。
Over 5,000,000 singes.
是的
Yeah.
确实如此
Indeed.
听了这么多关于记录山峰的志向，我们总得去爬一座山才行。
We've got to climb a fell, having heard all up the aspiration to record the fells.
我们还得走过一段卡特溪谷。
We've still got a little bit of Cat Gill to negotiate.
前面还有一些陡峭的台阶要爬。
There's some big steps to come.
我们现在站在熊岩顶峰，这里是瓦拉克雷格的最高点，眼前是壮丽的湖景，远处是凯斯威克和斯基达山起伏的天际线。
Well, here we are on the Bear Rock Summit on the great crown of Walla Crag with a wonderful view down onto the lake and onto Keswick and to the rising horizon of Skidda.
这景色太震撼了，对莱利来说，这也是个特别的时刻。
It's an amazing view, and it's an amazing moment for Riley.
这景色简直无与伦比，而且这是莱利第一次登顶沃恩怀特山峰，她非常高兴能和舅舅马克、舅舅戴夫一起完成这个目标。
It's an absolutely incredible view, and it's Riley's first Wainwright, which she's very pleased and privileged to do with her her uncle Mark and her uncle Dave.
我平时是爷爷，但像今天这种场合，我也可以当舅舅。
I'm usually grandpa, but I could be an uncle on occasions like this.
对。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
这景色真棒。
The view.
我现在朝东北看，能看见克拉布黑德，接着是布莱恩瑟拉，还有围绕斯凯达的一系列山峰——温德莱特、格赖斯代尔派克、克雷格山、卡维斯派克，然后是卡特贝尔斯，再往远是红峰、罗宾逊和海恩斯加斯，还有梅登莫尔，高斯派上方还能看到戴尔黑德的山顶。
I'm now looking Northeast, so I can see Clubhead, and then of course, Blencathra, and all the array of tops associated with Skidda through the Windlatter, Grysdale Pike, Crag Hill, Cawsey Pike and then Catbells and beyond that but to be a Red Pike and Robinson and Hynesgarth, Maiden Moor, and just see the top of Dale Head above High Spy.
当然还有大盖布尔，还有斯科费尔群峰、埃斯派克、鲍费尔，离我们更近的是布里布里峰，就在高席附近。
Great Gable of course is there, and the Scorfells and Esk Pike and Bowfell and much nearer we're coming to Blibri Fell back by High Seat.
这景色太美了，最引人注目的当然是凯斯威克。
So wonderful view, most attention goes of course to Keswick.
这番景致优美动人，几代人都为之倾心。
It's a gracious view loved for generations.
南方人特别喜欢这个地方。
South they loved up here.
很多诗人都来过这里，从中汲取灵感。
Many of the poets came here and drew inspiration.
在之前的录音里，你其实承认自己还有一座温赖特山没登过。
And then on in the recording, you actually admitted that you've got a Wainwright that you have yet to ascend.
斯蒂普尔峰。
Steeple.
你去斯科普费尔的时候，怎么就没登那座山？
How come when you went to Scope Fell, you missed out on it?
完全是胆子太小了。
Massive failure of nerve.
那天风特别大，我实在没勇气去走温赖特那么喜欢的那段险路。
It was a very windy day, and I didn't fancy the, the erect that Wainwright loved.
说实话，那样子我真有点不敢看。
I didn't like the look of, I'm afraid.
所以现在很多人都问过我这个问题，马克，除了纯粹的胆怯，我实在想不出别的理由。
So now a lot of people have asked me that question, Mark, and I haven't got a good answer to it apart from sheer cowardice.
等你真登上去的时候，要是碰上个风和日丽的日子，会怎么庆祝呢？
When you do make it, of course, you will on a calm day, is there some way you will celebrate?
说实话，我在山里经常这样，站在这儿琢磨，当年那些指南书的作者们会怎么想，他们会注意到周围的哪些景色。
I think honestly, and I find myself doing this on the Fells quite a lot, I often stand here and think what each guidebook writer would have thought, what they would have noticed in the surrounding landscape.
我们之前提到的那些人，比如马蒂诺，他大概会关心农场里人们的日常生活条件。
The ones we talked about so far, Martineau would probably have been thinking about the living conditions of people on the farms.
詹金森会谈论他钟爱的风景，把这些山峰当成朋友——就像多年后韦恩赖特做的那样；巴德利则可能会聊起这片地区如画的风光。
Jenkinson would have been talking about the scenery that he loved and the fells that he called friends in a similar way to Wainwright many years later, Baddeley would have talked about the picturesque scenery of the district probably.
脑子里会冒出好多念头，但老实说，最真实的感受可能还是松了一口气——总算没再摔断哪条腿。
So many things go through your mind, but honestly as well probably sheer relief that I'll have managed to do it without breaking another lower limb.
你会选哪条路线上去？
What which approach would you choose?
我想这次还是从山谷那边往上走吧。
I think I'll go up from the valley this time.
就像终点吗？
Like end?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
那片区域不适合我。
The area ret is is not for me.
不对。
No.
不是。
No.
好。
Okay.
你是个跨栏高手。
You're a steeple steeplechaser.
不过，我们之前把巴德利留在了卡特溪，现在得把五十年后两位新人物引入盖伊·布克斯的故事里。
Well, we left Baddeley down in Cat Gill, but we've got to introduce two more figures fifty years on, to the story of Guy Books.
亨利·赫伯特·西蒙斯，也就是西蒙斯牧师。
Henry Herbert Simmons, the reverend H.
西蒙斯。
H.
辛蒙兹，还有W.
Symonds, and W.
T.
T.
帕尔默，这两个人跟之前的大不相同。
Palmer, very different men.
W.
W.
T.
T.
帕尔默是本地人，出生在米尔恩索普附近的一个农家。
Palmer was local born and bred from a farming family near Milnthorpe.
他一生大部分时间都做记者和作家，写过不少关于湖区的作品。
He was a journalist, a writer for most of his life, wrote a number of works about the Lake District.
湖区。
District.
他特别关注当地人的生活、传统和习俗，还特意把它们记录下来。
He was very, very interested in local people, traditions, customs, and made a point of recording those.
他非常支持户外活动和户外运动的发展。
He was an enthusiastic proponent of the outdoors and the outdoors movement.
那时候正好是上世纪三十年代徒步旅行兴起的时期。
We're talking really at the time when there was the nineteen thirties hiking boom.
与H.
In contrast with H.
H.
H.
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西蒙斯是圣公会的牧师，一生大部分时间都在公立学校教书，后来提前退休，搬到了湖区，全身心投入保护自然景观的事业。
Simmons, who was Anglican curgeyman that taught in public schools largely for most of his career, retired early, moved up to the Lake District, became very, very active in terms of preservation of the landscape.
他很巧妙地把自己的追求形容为抢救那些残存的自然美景。
He rather nicely recalled his interests as rescuing scraps of natural beauty.
这正是他真正的动力所在。
So that was what really his motivation was.
西蒙斯的指南书本质上是一本倡导性质的书。
Symonds' guidebook was a campaigning guidebook.
它表面上是一本旅游指南，实际上也确实是。
It was nominally and it is.
你可以把它当作一本从东到西穿越英格兰湖区的徒步指南，起点是沙普。
It can be read and walked as a tour of the the English Lake District from east to west starting at Shap.
但这本书的很大一部分都在强调，要为子孙后代保护这片美丽的风景。
But a lot of that book is around the importance of preserving this beautiful landscape for future generations.
因此，西蒙斯是当时一群志同道合者的核心人物，他们正积极倡导建立国家公园。
So Symonds was very central to a group of like minded individuals who were campaigning at that time for the foundation of national parks.
辛蒙斯的指南书非常注重让读者了解这片风景的美，也强调徒步是感受和了解这类地区最好的方式。
Symonds' guidebook is very focused on educating his readers about the beauty of the scenery and educating his readers about the fact that walking is the best way to experience and to get to know a district like this.
而且
And
莱利对此也有自己的看法，我能看出来。
Riley's got an opinion on that as well, I can judge.
他们是两种截然不同的人。
They're two very distinctly different people.
他们的风格影响了各自指南书的语气。
Their, approach affected the tone of their guidebooks.
确实如此。
Definitely.
正如我提到的，辛蒙斯指南书中教育性的部分不仅限于风景，还涵盖了徒步本身——他的《湖区徒步》1933年首次出版，就详细讲了该怎么走。
And as I've talked about the educative aspect of Symonds' guidebook, that extended to walking and how to walk in his guidebook, Walking in the Lake which is first published in 1933.
他把徒步提升到了哲学的高度，虽然说这可能有点精英主义，但这么说也不太公平，毕竟他为保护我们今天所热爱的这片景观付出了巨大努力。
He really turned walking into a subject for philosophy, and made it something that was potentially elitist is is perhaps an unfair word to use because he did so much to preserve this landscape that we all know and love today.
我觉得他确实有一种很男性化的登山哲学，强调某种男子气概去征服这片区域的岩石高峰，他把斯科费尔山称为兄弟会的圣地。
I will say that he definitely had quite a masculinist philosophy of fell walking, which is around a particular type of manhood conquering the rocky peaks in the district represented really by the Mecca of the brotherhood, he called it, which was Skorfell.
帕尔默的做法则完全不同。
Palmer, a different approach.
帕尔默在1952年最后一次写的湖区漫步指南里提到，他认为这片风景是属于每个人的。
Palmer said in one of his last walks byways in Lakeland in 1952 that he believed that this landscape was for all.
他特别提到了普通的店员和办公室小职员。
He mentions the ordinary shop lass and office lad.
他想象中来到这里的人，就是这类普通人。
They were the sort of people that he was envisaging coming here.
辛蒙斯如果看到湖区向更多人开放，一定会很高兴，但他希望人们是以正确的方式去体验它，而这一点在帕尔默的指南里就没那么明显。
Symonds would have been delighted, I'm sure, if he had managed to open up the Lake District to more people, but he wanted them to experience it in the right way, and there's less sense of that in Palmer's guidebook.
你刚才提到阶级的问题。
Now you were talking a bit there about class.
那女性在这个故事里又处于什么位置呢？
Where do women fit into this story?
在我说的那段时期，其实一直都有女性在山间徒步，只是她们的存在几乎没人提而已。
Women were walking Fells throughout the period, that I've I've written about, but their presence was largely unacknowledged, I think.
当然，玛莎是了解这位女性的。
Obviously, Martha knows the woman.
她专门写过女性徒步的事。
She talks about women's walks.
她会根据徒步者的特点来匹配路线。
She matches the walk to the walker.
比如她说，靠近洛斯的低峰特别适合女士们早上走，而靠近巴特米尔的红峰，则更适合身强力壮的学生或灵巧的年轻人挑战。
So for example, she says that Low Fell near Lowes is ideally a ladies morning walk, whereas Red Pike near Buttermere, a stout student or a nimble youth could tackle.
今天读辛蒙兹的指南书，其实有点难度。
There's a difficulty reading Symonds' guidebook today.
这本书带有鲜明的时代烙印，里面夹杂着古典对话和拉丁术语，现在看来多少有些排他性。
It's of its time, as well as the classical dialogues that pepper the guidebook and the Latin terms that he uses, which you can see nowadays as exclusionary.
我们在辛蒙兹的指南书中可以看到，当他提到女性在山间徒步时，通常并不怎么用赞许的口吻。
What we can look at in Symonds' guidebook is the fact that when he talks about women on the fells, he doesn't typically talk about them in a particularly complementary way.
有一段写到一位女性徒步攀登赫尔维林，他说她看起来特别滑稽，因为穿着条纹袜子，背包鼓得像塞了一堆气球似的。
There's a passage of a woman walking up Helvellyn where he talks about her looking ridiculous because she's wearing stripy socks, and her rucksack is so fat that it looks like she's filled it with balloons.
很明显，他在描述一个与周围环境格格不入的女性。
So he's quite clearly describing a woman who seems to be out of place in her surroundings.
当时，登山徒步本身正在逐渐变成一种流行活动。
Fell walking itself was evolving now into quite a thing.
越来越多的人来到这个地区，开始徒步登山。
Many more people are coming to the district and fell walking.
如果你查查全国性度假协会、度假联谊会、青年旅舍协会的记录。
If you look at the records of the countrywide holidays association, holiday fellowship, youth hostels association.
住宿设施明显增多了。
It's much more accommodation.
指南书里都会提到这些变化。
Guidebooks will refer to that.
徒步俱乐部开始兴起，小木屋也陆续建起来了。
Rambling clubs, huts are beginning to be established.
现在人们有更多方式可以来这个地区游玩了。
There's a lot more ways that people can come and enjoy the district.
这里的很多地方比以前方便多了。
Places are a lot more accessible, than they have been before.
珍·特纳在《威斯特摩兰交通史》中提到，公共汽车已经穿梭于整个郡县。
Jean Turnbull in her history of transport in Westmoreland talks about motor buses crisscrossing the county.
汽车交通加上铁路交通，真正让这个地区变得更容易到达了。
So motor transport in addition to railway transport has really opened the district up.
西蒙兹和帕尔默的指南书特别之处在于，它们鼓励读者去探索那些少有人走的小路。
What Symonds and Palmer's guidebooks are notable for is they're encouraging their readers to go off the beaten track.
读者之所以能做到这一点，是因为现在有了青年旅舍和其他更便宜的住宿选择。
The readers can do that because there's now a network of youth hostels and other types of accommodation that are available at a cheaper rate potentially than accommodation was previously.
现在去那些偏僻的地方探索，其实更容易了。
It's actually easier to go off the beaten track to explore a bit.
你不一定非得看像詹金森这样的指南书，它讲的都是从凯斯威克或安布尔斯代尔出发的路线，马丁诺的指南书也是一样。
You're not looking necessarily at a guidebook, example, like Jenkinson's, who will be talking about routes from Keswick or routes from Ambleside, and Martineau's guidebook's same.
巴德利也是这样。
Baddeley's the same.
现在你可以通过青年旅舍把整个地区的徒步路线串联起来了。
You're now talking about the possibility of linking up tours of the district by youth hostels.
徒步游览变得轻松多了。
You can do a walking tour in a much easier way.
你刚才提到徒步游览。
You talked about walking tours.
怀恩赖特当年就是沿着这条路线走的，这正是我们下次停顿后要聊的内容。不过我们现在先多走一段，离开瓦拉克雷格的山顶，朝法尔康克雷格峰顶前进。我们现在已经到了法尔康克雷格顶上的石堆，这是个特别的地方。
Wainwright actually came in doing a tour, and I think this is what we'll talk about next when we next have a stop but we'll walk a little bit further and leave this top of Walla Crag and head towards the top of Falcon Crag We've made our way to the cairn on top of Falcon Crag, which is a very special spot.
能走到这么远的人真的不多。
Few are the number of people who've ventured this far.
他们根本没意识到这里有多特别。
They don't really realize it.
从瓦拉克雷格山顶往阿什内斯桥走的主路，其实有个明显的岔口，你得穿过一个吻门，才能爬上这个高地。
On the regular path from the top of Walla Crag down to Ashness Bridge, it's a definite break off, and you have to go down through a Kissing Gate and onto this high point.
这里的视野和沃拉克雷格一样全，但感觉更私密、更独特。
It's got all the view elements that Walla Crag has, only feel very exclusive.
现在说点真正特别的东西。
Now talking about something really very special.
说到旅行指南，我年轻时是通过阿尔弗雷德·韦恩赖特的书接触到这个的，当时还有沃尔特·帕彻的指南书。
When it comes to guidebooks, I remember, as a younger man, being introduced to guidebooks specifically through Alfred Wainwright's guides, but there was also Walter Poucher's guidebooks.
大家更想了解的，还是韦恩赖特的背景故事。
The background to Wainwright, that's the one I think most people want to get their feel for.
现在我们聊的这些，对马克来说都是亲身经历，他确实见过韦恩赖特，也和他一起走过。
I think we're moving into living memory now, obviously, with Mark here, having met and walked with him.
但韦恩赖特其实是个外乡人，刚来这个地区时并不是本地人。
But Wainwright, again, was an offcomer to the district.
他出生并成长在布莱克本，在那儿的市政厅上班，后来因为第一次来奥里斯特山时经历了一次深刻的转变，才搬到了湖区。
Born and brought up in Blackburn, started work in the council offices there, moved to the Lake District, really as a result of a transformative transcendental experience on Orist Head on his first visit.
当他第一次看到那片景色时，感觉像云层散开、帷幕拉开，一切豁然开朗——那真是个美得让人想扎根定居的地方。
When he saw the view, he felt like clouds had lifted, the curtains had moved, everything was in front of him, an absolutely beautiful, stunning place to be and to live somewhere where he wanted to put down roots.
后来他搬进了这个地区，最终成了肯德尔的财政官，直到1967年退休。
And he did move into the district, eventually becoming barr treasurer of Kendall, from which position he retired in 1967.
他的这套风景指南是在1955年到1966年间陆续出版的。
His pictorial guides to the district were published between 1955 and 1966.
这些指南书可不简单，影响很大。
These are quite significant, these guidebooks.
可以说，它们彻底改变了指南书的面貌。
They were, you might say, game changing.
它们有一些独特的特质，以前的指南书从没有过，以后可能也再难有了。
They had certain qualities that no guidebook has ever had before and perhaps never since.
没错。
That's right.
如果你回溯指南书的发展脉络，就会发现这些书的特别之处。
And I think it's important to look at those guides when you look at them in the lineage of the guidebooks they came from.
这样一看，更能体会到这些书有多重要。
I suppose it shines light on the importance of those books even more.
研究沃恩赖特之前的那些指南书，并不会削弱他的贡献。
It's not diminishing Wainwright's role to look at the, the preceding guidebooks.
相反，这反而更清晰地凸显了那些图解指南的成功之处。
I think it's actually throwing into sharp relief things that the pictorial guides did so successfully.
最特别的地方，就在于它们的插图。
Primarily in the matter of illustration is what makes them distinctive.
如果你仔细看这些图解指南，其实有三种主要的插图类型。
If you look at the pictorial guides, there's really three types of illustration.
有他的登顶示意图、他自己画的地图，还有他的自画像——这三者结合在一起，让人感觉像是作者亲自在陪伴你、带你穿越山野。随着书本的推进，登顶示意图变得越来越重要。
There's his ascent diagrams, his own maps, and his self portraits, which combined together give a sense of the author's companion, the author guiding you through the landscape, the ascent diagrams, become more important as the, the books progress.
我做过一个统计，系列后两本书里，每座山峰都至少有一半页或整页的登顶示意图。
I've done an exercise of counting them, and the last two books in the series, every fell in them has at least a half page or a full page ascent diagram.
但系列前两本书，三十座山峰里，居然一张登顶示意图都没有。
Whereas the first two books in the series, 30 fells, don't actually have an ascent diagram.
这说明他写书时，既是为了自己，也时刻想着读者，甚至考虑到后世——他在信里说过，希望自己的作品能成为湖区文学经典的一部分。
So there's a sense that he's writing something for himself, but also with an eye on on his readership and, potentially posterity because he does say in his letters that he wants his work, to become part of the pantheon, if you like, of, of Lakeland literature.
他的名字也希望能和华兹华斯并列，而这一点，由于这些图解指南是精心挑选的214座山峰，剔除了天气、登山路线、山顶景观、下山路径、景点介绍以及景点图片，反而更加突出。
And his name to be, remembered alongside Wordsworth, which arguably has it even more because of the structure of pictorial guides as a curated collection of 214 Fells, character studies stripped of the weather, ascent routes, summit views, descent routes, places of interest, pictures of places of interest in them.
还有温赖特所倡导的山地徒步精神，我知道有些人对他在指南书中对待女性的方式提出过质疑。
And also, Wainwright's, I suppose, ethos of Fell walking, which I know some people do raise questions in terms of his treatment of women in the guidebooks.
但就我个人而言，我觉得他对女性的态度比西蒙斯要温和得多。
And personally, I find it much more sympathetic perhaps than Simmons' treatment of a woman hiker.
我们之前提到的那段文字，西蒙斯实际上是在嘲笑一位穿着登山装备的女性。
The passage we talked about earlier, Simmons is actually mocking a woman who was attired for the fells.
温赖特从不会这么做。
Wainwright doesn't do that.
他只会指出某些刻板印象。
He will draw attention to certain stereotypes.
所以我认为，温赖特的成就极为卓越——当你回看之前的指南书，比如巴德利的作品，就会明白插图和地图的重要性。
So I think Wainwright's achievement is towering in the sense that when you look at preceding guidebooks, talked about Baddeley and the importance of illustration and the mapping.
一旦指南书开始重视插图，就会出现美感与实用性的冲突。
When you do get guidebooks that begin to introduce illustration as an important factor, you then get a conflict between beauty and utility of that work.
你到底是怎么把插图和徒步路线指引结合起来，让指南书依然实用的？
How do you actually integrate those illustrations into the walking route directions so that the guidebook remains usable?
如果你试着用巴德利的指南书徒步，虽然他的书成就非凡、非常出色，但你会发现你得不停地翻书、对照地图，才能搞清楚该怎么走。
If you try and walk from a Baddeley guidebook, and they're a marvelous achievement, excellent guidebooks, but you will find yourself manipulating the guidebook and the, and the map quite a lot to work out how to follow the route.
有趣的是，西蒙兹和帕尔默的指南书，可以说是这个类型的一个转折点。
Interestingly, the guidebooks of Symonds and Palmer represent a point of rupture, if you like, in the genre.
当我读到十九世纪末的时候，我以为自己已经看懂了这个故事——无非就是插图在指南书里的重要性。
Because when I got to the end of the nineteenth century, I was thinking, I think I know what the story is here, that it's all about the the importance of illustration in guidebooks.
我以为这种重要性会是线性增长的，到了二十世纪会越来越强，毕竟我知道温赖特和普彻的作品，都画得特别多。
And that importance is gonna be linear, and it's going to be increasing in importance through the twentieth century because I knew of Wainwright's work and Poucher's work, both very highly illustrated.
但西蒙兹和帕尔默，完全背离了这条路。
Symonds and Palmer, complete step away from that.
他们之所以这么写，是因为徒步热潮带来了更多经验丰富的徒步者，他们鼓励人们走非主流路线，因为他们的读者群是去青年旅舍旅行的人。
So this sense of writing for a more competent because of the hiking boom, perhaps a more skilled readership, This encouragement to go off the beaten track because they're writing in different ways for people going youth hosteling.
我们之前聊过帕尔默的倡导角色，而西蒙兹更是默西塞德青年旅舍协会的创始人，他相信青年旅舍本身就能成为引导人们走进乡野、了解并热爱自然，进而愿意保护它的媒介。
We talked about Palmer's involvement as a proponent, but Symonds was founder of the the Merseyside branch of the YHA, and he believed that YHA itself could be a vehicle for getting people out into the countryside to learn and know it and and love it better, to want to be able to protect it.
所以你会觉得奇怪，那些插图怎么都不见了？
So you get this sense of, oh, where have the illustrations gone?
因为辛蒙斯的指南书里确实有照片插页，但拍的都是湖区的本土生活，或者就是湖面本身的景色。
Because Symonds' guidebook has plates of photography in, but they tend to be of Lakeland vernacular life, or they tend to be of, photos of lakes themselves.
这些照片根本不是用来指引步道的。
They're not actually photos of the walking routes.
帕彻的指南书是企鹅系列中的一本，中间附了些地图，但那些地图是给骑车和开车的人用的。
Palmer's guidebook was one of a series of penguin guides, so it's got some maps in the middle, but they're also for cyclists and motorists.
所以非常通用，缺乏针对性。
So very, very generic.
这两位作者都希望你一边看他们的指引，一边另拿一张地图对照着看。
Both of those writers encourage you to look at a a map separately in parallel with their directions.
辛蒙斯的指南书尤其依赖这种地图与文字并用的方式，这一点非常明显。
Symonds' guidebook, that reliance on looking at a map and his guidebook when he gives directions is really quite pronounced.
有一段他提到，我觉得他当时应该是从阿斯卡下山，经过里德尔山的茶馆时，往左转。
There's one passage where he talks about I think he's talking about coming down probably in Abscar, and he's talking about by the tea of Riddle Mount, turn left.
简直让人难以置信，居然真能一边看这么详细的地图，一边对照他的指南书。
And it's it's almost flabbergasting, that sense that you would actually being able to look at a map in that level of detail and compare it to his guidebook at the same time.
当然，你在家时可以做些这样的准备。
Obviously, you could do some of that at home.
但沃恩特的高明之处，在于他解决了以往指南书中美感与实用性之间的矛盾——因为插图是和文字融为一体的。
But the genius in the sense of Wainwright is resolving that conflict between beauty and utility in those previous guidebooks because the illustrations are integrated with the text.
大部分上山路线图都集中在同一页上。
Most of the ascent diagrams are all on one page.
所以你只需要翻看指南书的一页，就能掌握全部信息。
So if you need to just look at one page of a guidebook, you can.
这种设计对非专业人士特别友好，而西蒙兹和帕尔默的指南书可能就不行，因为他们总讲怎么用指南针，还老提方位。
And it's available to a non expert that the guidebooks and Symonds and Palmer potentially aren't because they talk a lot about using a compass, and they talk about compass directions.
沃恩特曾把指南针称作‘小玩意儿’，他压根儿就不喜欢这些玩意儿。
As Wainwright famously called a compass a gadget, and he didn't get on with gadgets.
如今，人们可能在旧书店里遇到过沃尔特·帕彻的指南书，那些书都是以照片为基础的。
People will have come across in probably secondhand bookshops these days, Walter Poucher's guidebooks, which are based on photography.
波彻在1960年出版了一本名为《湖区山峰》的图解口袋指南，之后又推出了其他山区的指南。
Poucher produced a pictorial pocket guidebook in 1960 called the Lakeland Peaks and followed it with guidebooks to other mountain areas.
比如有一本关于斯凯岛的，评价非常高。
So there's one on Skye, for example, very well regarded.
《斯凯岛的魔力》。
Magic of Skye.
《斯凯岛的魔力》。
Magic of Skye.
就是这样。
That's it.
没错。
Yeah.
所以波彻的指南，表面上看也叫图解指南。
So Poucher's guidebook, superficially, it's also called a pictorial guide.
里面插图非常丰富。
It's highly illustrated.
照片多得数不清，但这就要求指南和文字之间的配合得更加精心安排。
Lots and lots of photographs, but it requires a substantial amount more choreography of guidebook and text.
尤其是第一版，这个问题特别明显。
And one of the issues with it is certainly in the first edition.
照片太多，整本指南都得印在厚实的相纸上。
There's so many photographs in it that all of the guidebook had to be printed on photographic paper, heavy paper.
所以这本指南虽然小巧，但拿在手里其实挺沉的，全因为纸张太重。
So the guidebook, even though it's compact, is actually quite hefty, because of the weight of it.
你可能会看到一些横版的照片，但相关的文字却不一定印在同一页。
You'll have various photographs that are in landscape, format, but the text isn't necessarily on the same page.
你得不停地翻来翻去。
You have to flick about.
比如Poucher这本指南里，会放一张我们现在看的斯基达的照片。
Poucher will have a picture, for example, of Skidda that we're looking at now.
他会在照片上手绘并标注出路线，还会手写标注出可见的聚落，比如凯斯威克、特尔苹果索、泰特。
He will have handwritten and marked scent routes on this photograph, and also he'll have handwritten on Keswick, Thrall Apple Thwait, the settlements that you can see.
而温赖特的作品则要整合得多。
Whereas Wainwright's work basically is much more integrated.
文字和图片并排呈现，彼此紧密融合，这一点波彻的书就做不到。
The text and image sit alongside each other, and they're they're wrapped together in a way that Poucher's isn't.
我觉得，它没能达到那种同样的可信度。
It doesn't achieve that same level of of trust, if you like, I think.
有意思的一点是，有一位叫肯·加兰德的平面设计师，几年前刚去世。
I think one of the things that's interesting is a gentleman called Ken Garland, who's a graphic designer, died within the last few years.
他做过一项研究，其中就包括了徒步指南书。
He's done a study amongst other things of walking guidebooks.
他提到一点：手工制作并不一定等于好。
And one of the points he makes is that artisanal doesn't necessarily have to be good.
温赖特的指南书就是典型的手工风格。
Wainwright's guidebooks are artisanal.
以今天的眼光看，它们就像印刷出来的手稿，但之所以出色，是因为文字与图像、风格的完美结合，还有他使用的字体——那种高度一致的排版。
I'd call them a manuscript in print in terms of how we receive them today, but they're good because of the integration of text and image and style, and will talk about the, fonts that Wainwright used in terms of the consistency of that.
而普舍的作品就达不到这种程度的融合。
Whereas Poucher, his work just doesn't achieve that same level of integration.
尤其是在早期的指南书中，他手写的字迹看起来有点凌乱。
And certainly in the earlier guidebooks where he's got handwriting on it, it just looks slightly untidy, really.
它无法让人产生同样的信任感。
It doesn't engender the same level of trust.
加兰的观点是，如果手工艺做得好，会让人对作者产生很强的信任感，就像一位可靠的伙伴。
And Garland's point really is that artisanal, if it's really done well, engenders a lot of trust in the author as a companion.
如果做得不够好，那就达不到同样的效果。
If it's done not quite as well, then it doesn't quite have the same impact.
确实如此。
Indeed.
我早期的指南书也试过手写文字之类的，
My early guidebooks, I tried to do hand drawn text and so on.
但始终没做好。
I never achieved it.
我觉得没人能比得上韦恩赖特。
I don't think anybody could match Wainwright.
如果你做不到韦恩赖特那样的水平，根本就别尝试了。
And unless you can do it as good as Wainwright, you shouldn't even try.
韦恩赖特拥有的技能实在太多了。
Wainwright had so many skills.
简直让人难以置信。
It's absolutely mind blowing.
韦恩赖特真正了不起的地方，在于他把这片徒步区域定义成了一个绝妙的景观，每座山丘都有他赋予的独特个性。
Now what Wainwright did was define this as a great walking landscape, and every Fell had a character that he brought out.
所以今天大家更熟悉的，是他留下的这份遗产——这些山丘现在都叫‘韦恩赖特路线’。
So that's the aspect of his legacy that we're probably more familiar with today, that the Fells are called the Wainwrights.
没人会叫它们‘普舍路线’。
They're not called the Pouchers.
马克，你应该是认识他的，所以你肯定能体会到这种感觉。
I think, Mark, you will have known him, so you'll you have a sense of what you feel about this.
但如今很多挑战都集中在限定时间内完成整个温赖特路线。
But so many of the challenges nowadays, obviously, are based on completing the whole circuit of the Wainwrights in a certain amount of time.
我觉得，当你看温赖特谈山地探索时，他强调的是一种悠闲但有目的的漫游，留意身边的一切。
And I think when you look at what Wainwright was saying about exploration of the fells, he talks about leisurely but purposive exploration, noticing what's around you.
我不是说不能留意风景，也不贬低那些拥有惊人体能和意志力、能在214座山中全部完成的人。
Not saying that you can't notice, and I'm not knocking anybody who has the incredible fitness and mental strength to do them all as a a two hundred and hundred and fourteen.
但我认为，温赖特笔下的山地体验，可能和现在不太一样。
But I think Wainwright was perhaps writing about a a different experience of the Fells.
马蒂诺列过一份26座山的清单。
Martineau did a list of 26 Fells.
这你可没想到吧？
Well, how about that?
这些路线一直在演变。
They've evolved.
我知道，现在温赖特的清单已经固定为214座了。
Wainwright, I know he's down at just two and fourteen now.
那他最初列出的数量更多吗？
Well, did he have a bigger number?
我觉得是的。
I believe so.
我觉得安迪·贝克在《彩色温赖特》里提到过，他最初从214座山峰开始，后来慢慢精简到214座，部分原因是为了让每本书收录的山峰数量保持一致，形成系列化的风格。
I think Andy Beck in his Wainewrites in Colors says that he started with 02/1960 and whittled it down to the, the 214, partly, I think, because there was a need, obviously, to create books that were part of series of broad similarities that extended to the number of Fells he included in in each volume.
有些加进来了，有些被删掉了。
Some came in, some went out.
芒格里斯代尔沼地不知怎么的就被收进去了。
Mungrisdale Common got in there for some reason.
确实如此。
It did.
对啊。
Yeah.
没错，那地方其实就是一片沼泽，对吧？
Well, yeah, it's a swamp, really, isn't it?
在我这地界儿，这沼泽挺美的，我可不会说它不好。
It's a lovely swamp in my neck of the woods, so I'm not gonna knock it.
不过，确实，这个决定挺有意思的。
But, yes, it's an interesting decision, that one.
拉姆斯凯尔头上的诺特算不上一座山。
And Knot on Ramskill Head is not a fell.
对。
No.
韦恩赖特可是我心头好，也是我们很多听众的最爱。
Well, there's Wainwright, dear to my heart and dear to many of our listeners.
好了，我们接着往阿什内斯桥方向下山，差不多也该收尾了。
Anyway, we're gonna continue our walk back down towards Ashness Bridge, and more or less conclude our reflections.
你正沿着这片荒凉的山坡往下走，德文特湖的上半部分清晰可见。
You're coming down this rather barren slope with the upper part of Derwentwater clearly in view.
现在，我们来聊聊你研究过的这些指南书，谈谈你的看法。
So we're coming to some reflections on all these guidebooks you've studied and got a perspective on.
你觉得一本出色的指南书最重要的要素是什么？
What would you say would be the main ingredients of a really good guidebook?
我觉得实用性最重要，就是不用翻好几页才能找到该做什么。
I think usability, that whole idea of, not having to flick through loads of pages to find what you should be doing.
有些早期的指南书会说，看第五条路线，或者看第92页。
Some of the early guidebooks say, look at route five or look at page 92.
这种做法对我来说行不通。
That doesn't work for me.
我希望所有信息都集中在同一页上。
I want it all on the same page.
当然，还要便携、易用。
Obviously, So we've got portability, easy to use.
文字和图片的结合也很关键，我得提一下马克的指南书，它们在这方面做得特别出色。
The integration of text and image as well, and I'm gonna talk about Mark's guidebooks there, obviously, because they do that beautifully.
我们聊过韦恩赖特的遗产，但其实从设计角度看，普彻的摄影风格对现代指南书的影响可能更大。
And we've talked about Wainwright's legacy, but actually, arguably, the photographic legacy of Poucher in terms of design of modern guidebook has been more important.
但我觉得，作者能像伙伴一样陪在身边，这种感觉特别好，沃恩赖特就做到了，就像有个人一路陪着你走。
But also, I think it's really nice to have the sense of the author as companion with you, which obviously Wainwright does, but that sense of somebody walking along beside you.
书中还能感受到作者的个性、兴趣，以及他们对风景的反应。
So there's a little bit of their character and their interests and how they respond to the landscape as well.
在你读过、吸收并欣赏过的所有书中，哪一本让你觉得特别与众不同？
Out of all the books you've filtered through and absorbed and appreciated, what's the one that you thought, now that was very special?
我觉得是亨利·艾尔温·詹金森的实用指南，因为他倾注了大量心血，还为凯斯威克和通往山地的通道做了很多贡献，这些我们现在都能享受到。
I think Henry Irwin Jenkinson's practical guide, because of the amount of craft and effort, that he put into making it, because of everything he did for Keswick and for access to Fells that we all enjoy nowadays.
不过我也得说，沃恩赖特的图解指南，尤其是第五册《北方山地》，对我意义非凡——我有幸住在这里，正是这套书让我最初爱上了山地徒步。
But I'd also have to say, really, Wainwright's pictorial guides and specifically book five, the Northern Fells, where I'm lucky, to live, because they were what drew me into fell walking in the first place.
展望未来，指南书会往哪个方向发展？
Looking forward from here, where do guidebooks go?
当年地形测量局的地图问世后，对指南书构成了挑战，因为光靠一张地图，你就能自己规划路线。
When ordinance survey maps were produced, they posed a challenge to guidebooks in the sense that you can quite easily self design your own walks just with a map.
那我们还需要指南书吗？
Do you need a guidebook?
我猜很多去山脊的人根本不会带指南书。
I'd imagine that a lot of people going onto the Fells don't take guidebooks at all.
他们大概全靠手机和数字地图导航。
They're probably reliant on their phone and digital mapping.
我觉得他们错过的是那种人与这片土地之间的联系——通过徒步、通过脚下的路，这种联系让我的每一次行走都更有意义。
I suppose the thing that that misses is that whole sense of the relationship of people and this landscape through fell walking, through it being trodden ground, which for me really enriches what it means to walk in this place, to be in this place.
我认为这正是英格兰湖区作为文化景观的精髓所在，它不仅受农业、文学和艺术的影响，更离不开一双双走过这片土地的靴子。
And I think it's really part of definition of the English Lake District as a cultural landscape because it has been shaped by many factors, obviously farming, literary, artistic, but also boots on the ground.
旅程到此结束。
Journey's end.
我们回到了惊喜观景台下方的停车场。
We're back at the car park below Surprise View.
今天这趟徒步真是太棒了，对吧，马克？
We've had an absolutely lovely walk, haven't we, Mark?
我们真的很幸运。
We have been blessed.
我们昨天其实出来走了，因为这周我们正在连续录几期播客，昨天天气特别好。
We were actually out yesterday because we're doing a little run of podcasts this week, and it was a glorious day yesterday.
我简直不敢相信。
I couldn't believe it.
天气预报可没说今天会这么棒。
The forecast didn't imply it was gonna be as good as it is today.
天气真是太好了。
It's been fabulous.
今天风挺大的，从南方吹过来。
It's a it's quite a strong southerly breeze today.
所以今天散步特别舒服，一路上心情也特别愉快。
So it's all been a really pleasant day for a walk, and we've had a lovely journey.
这一路的风景，简直像翻开了本活生生的徒步指南。
It's been a wonderful panorama of guidebooks.
是啊。
Yeah.
空气中也明显有春天的气息，对吧？
Definitely spring in the air as well, isn't it?
我看到河岸上有一些水仙花，就在桥附近，我不确定那是不是什么老童子军的遗迹之类的。
I'm looking at some daffodils on the bank just alongside the I don't think this is like an old scout boffy or something just above the bridge itself.
我相信有些听众可能知道这到底是不是真的。
I'm sure there are listeners who might know whether that's true or not.
不过，话说回来，今天确实挺不错的。
Anyway, yeah, it was good.
我想说的是，
And I guess the
对于我们这些通过AW接触到湖区指南书的人来说，往往忘了他只是这个漫长传统中的最新一环。
thing is, for those of us who entered Lake District guidebooks via AW, we forget that he was just the latest in this very long lineage.
莉兹的观点是，他其实是在收集那些早已存在的零散内容，对吧？
And Liz's argument is that effectively he scavenges all these little bits, doesn't he?
那些东西早就存在了。
That have been there before.
我们知道这一点，因为他非常钦佩巴德利。
And we know that because we know that he really admired Baddeley.
从之前的播客里我们了解到，他特别喜欢林顿夫妇。
We know from prior podcast that he was a big fan of the Linton's.
所以是伊丽莎·林恩优美的文字，加上她丈夫的版画。
So Eliza Lynn, with her beautiful text, and her husband with the engravings.
他肯定也看过普舍的书。
And he would have had Poucher, definitely.
对吧？
Right?
所以……
So
还有詹金森，我不确定这有没有影响他，但他冬天做的研究量实在太惊人了。
And Jenkinson, I wonder if that influenced him because the phenomenal amount of research he did over a winter, unbelievable.
他为了找最佳路线，冬天里从八个不同方向登上了大盖布尔峰。
He went up Great Gable by eight directions to find the best route, so I mean to say, in the middle of winter.
你能相信吗？
Can you believe it?
是的。
Yeah.
他是个极其非凡的人物，全身心投入其中，我们将来会专门做一期节目来纪念他。
He was an absolutely extraordinary character who was hugely committed, and we will dedicate a future podcast to him.
如果有人参加过乡村步道的现场圣诞活动，我那时提到过他，因为他是凯斯威克真正的英雄。
If people came to the Country Stride live Christmas event, the Christmas cracker, I said a few words about him then because he's a real hero of of Keswick.
另一个有趣的地方是，那些参与指南书创作的人，很多人其实都很有政治意识。
Another interesting thing about the characters involved in guidebooks was a lot of them were quite political.
他们积极参与环保和倡导活动。
Know, they were involved with conservation, campaigning.
还有一件事让我印象深刻，很多人是在退休后才搬来当地，开始写作的，这挺有意思的，对吧？
Another thing that struck me is a lot of them started their writing as incomers when they were retired, which is interesting, isn't it?
我的意思是，大概就是晚年找点事做吧，你说呢？
I mean, I guess something to do in later life, isn't it?
如果他们经济宽裕，很多人早年职业生涯本来就很成功。
If they've got enough money to be comfortable, a lot of them had had, you know, very successful early careers anyway.
不管多大年纪，人们都能在这里找到内心的归属。
You know, people find their soul here at whatever age.
你突然意识到，这个地方真的很特别。
You suddenly realize that this is a unique place.
在这里，你可以以一种
You can express yourself here in a way
其他英国风景地根本无法实现的方式表达自己。
that you couldn't possibly do in other British landscape.
至于温赖特，他的成功部分得益于出版技术的进步，也因为他本人非同寻常，才能如此自然地把所有元素融合在一起。
And I guess the point about Wainwright then is that partly because of advances in publishing technology, partly because of the extraordinary character he is, He's able to create something that brought together everything in this really intuitive way.
他大幅提升了人们关注的山峰数量，实际上创造了‘温赖特路线’，对吧？
By massively expanding the number of fells that were on people's radar, effectively he creates the Wainwrights, doesn't he?
后来这就演变成了伯克特路线、辛格路线，当然还有理查兹路线。
Which then becomes the Burketts and the Singes and of course the Richards.
那里确实存在一种张力，对吧？
And there is a tension there, isn't there?
在海岸到海岸步道上也同样如此。
And it's there in the coast to coast path as well.
他说要走自己的路，结果人人都照着他的路线走。
He says, make it your own, and then everybody just follows his route.
他后来在214步道上又这么干了一次。
And he does it again with the two one four.
他明确表示，不喜欢那些打卡式徒步、赶路的人。
He's pretty clear that he doesn't like the baggers and people rushing around the place.
他认为山地不是为了这个而存在的，可偏偏是他造就了这种现象。
That is not what he believes the Fells are there for, but he has created that.
我的意思是，这算不上什么怪物吧？
I mean, it's not a monster, is it?
但对他来说，也许真成了怪物。
But for him, it might have been.
他想用自己的方式去界定或应对这件事，而不是眼睁睁看着它变成人人都在做的事。
He wanted to to define it or to cope with it in his own structured way without seeing the outcome as being as it has become something that everybody does.
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，我自己也是个打卡爱好者。
I mean, I say all this as a bagger myself.
天知道我完成过多少次韦恩赖特路线了。
God knows how many times I've done the Wainwrights.
我现在都不再计数了。
I don't even keep account anymore.
安娜·诺兰完成得更多。
Anna Nolan's done a few more.
安娜·诺兰确实比我多完成了11条，这是肯定的。
Anna Nolan has beaten me with 11, definitely.
我觉得打卡的一个好处，虽然这话不新鲜，但确实能带你去那些原本不会去的地方，这不就是一部分魅力吗？
I think one of the nice things about bagging, isn't it, and not a unique thing to say, but getting out into places that wouldn't have taken you there, that's partly it, isn't it?
这正是吸引人的地方，而不是那种
That's partly the hook rather than the kind
数量上的比拼。
of numbers game.
没错。
Yes.
对我来说，温赖特说过，没几个人会去兰德溪。
And for me, Wainwright, he said not many people would go to Land Creek.
但对我而言，是赫斯克山。
Well, in my case, it was HESK Fell.
赫斯克山在哪儿？
Where's HESK Fell?
在达登，听过我康尼斯顿指南的人应该知道赫斯克山在哪。
In the Dudden, listeners have got my Coniston guide will know where
赫斯克山的位置。
HESK Fell is.
你推荐去HESK Fell吗？
Do you recommend HESK Fell?
不推荐。
No.
哎呀，糟糕。
Oh, dear.
哦，这就对了。
Oh, there we go.
这话可是本人亲口说的。
You heard it here from the man himself.
明白了。
Right.
接下来是些注意事项。
Housekeeping.
如果你想支持我们，有三种方式。
If you would like to support us, three ways of doing it.
首先，如果你们有朋友或家人喜欢《The Lakes》这个播客，麻烦帮我们推荐一下。
Firstly, please do tell friends and family who love The Lakes about the podcast.
其次，你们可以买一本我们的徒步指南。
Secondly, you can buy one of our guidebooks.
就像我一开始说的，今天我们走的这条路线，我特别喜欢。
And as I said at the very beginning, this walk that we've done today, I love this walk.
这条路线收录在《凯斯威克徒步指南》里。
It's in the Keswick walking companion.
其实我特别喜欢这条路线， partly 是因为你的缘故，马克——我之前从来没走过法尔康崖，但确实值得一去。
And actually, why I particularly like it, this is partly to do with you Mark, is I hadn't been on Falcon Crag before and it is true.
从观景效果来看，它其实比瓦拉崖还要好。
It's a better viewpoint actually than Walla Crag.
但几乎没人去那里。
Nobody goes there.
从主路分出一条很小的岔道，通向阿什内斯桥。
There's a tiny little trod that breaks from the main path down to Ashness Bridge.
这本徒步指南里的路线很不错，其他几本——凯斯威克、汉贝尔赛德、乌尔斯沃特、特雷尔基特——也都各有特色，跟别的指南不太一样。
It's a good walk in that walking companion and all of the walking companions, so Keswick, Hambelside, Ullswater, Threlkult, they've all got those unique touches that are just probably a little bit different to other guidebooks.
就这样吧。
So there we go.
我们这会儿有点自说自话了，但写指南书确实不容易。
All getting a bit self referential here, but it's hard to make a guidebook.
我觉得这话没错。
I would say that.
给所有人讲清楚路线真的很难，因为每个人对距离的感知都不一样。
It's really hard to describe directions to a universal audience because some people have different perceptions of distance.
地标也会变，就像韦恩赖特说的，山峦永恒，但路标会消失，树也会倒下。
Landmarks change, you know the fells are eternal as Wainwright would say but signposts disappear, trees fall down.
而且
And the
天气常常会让人彻底迷失方向。
weather disorientates you cruelly so often.
第三种支持我们的方式是，你可以在Patreon上每月捐赠仅三英镑。
And the third way to support us, you can gift us as little as £3 a month on Patreon.
你可以加入我们忠实听众的行列，帮助我们保持方向，让这个项目继续运转，更多详情请访问我们的网站。
You can join our band of loyal listeners who keep us on the straight and narrow and keep this boat afloat, and you can find out more about how to do that.
在 www.country.co.uk 上注册只需一分钟。
Takes about a minute to set up at www.country.co.uk.
我们一直非常感激所有支持我们的人，对吧，马克？
And we are so grateful always, aren't we Mark, for those who support us?
当然。
Absolutely.
没错。
Yes.
我们确实是一个有凝聚力的社群。
We are very much a community.
我们并不是。
We're not.
就我们两个人在做。
There's just the two of us.
每个人都是这个大家庭的一部分。
Everybody's part of this.
说得太对了。
Spot on.
在结束今天的内容之前，最后要提一下，我们在Substack上投入了大量心血，网址是hftid.substack.com。
And final thing to say before we leave you today, we put a huge amount of effort into our Substack and you can find that at hftid.substack.com.
那里有我们每月的通讯，内容全是湖区的新闻和观点。
And you can find there our monthly newsletter full of Lake District news and views.
偶尔还会发布专题文章，当然，所有播客节目也都能在那里找到。
You can find occasional feature articles and, of course, all the podcasts as well.
上面的内容非常丰富，我们最近还开始每天更新一些小动态。
So a lot of material up there, and we started posting little daily updates as well.
那边现在可热闹了。
So a lot going on up there.
再次提醒，hefted.substack.com。
Again, hefted.substat.com.
好了，我们在阿什内斯桥这边就说到这儿。
That's it from us at Ashness Bridge here.
下次《乡村漫步》再见。
We will see you on the next Country Stride.
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