435：Threes 的乔什·彭尼将东西海岸的风格融入啤酒花拉格、浑浊IPA等啤酒中

而且我的意思是，我几乎更喜欢用拉格酵母酿造的酒花啤酒，而不是用奇科酵母，因为前者产生的酯类物质更少。

And I I mean, I I almost prefer beers that are hoppy beers that are made with lager yeast over Chico just for the minimal ester production.

在酒花与拉格酵母相互作用时，会发生某种变化，那些硫化物化合物会与我不知道是多酚还是别的什么成分结合，但随着时间推移，它们反而变得更果香。

There's something that happens between hop interactions with lager yeast where those sulfur camp compounds combine with I don't know if it's the polyphenols or what, but they get fruitier over time almost.

真有意思。

Interesting.

就像经过几周后，它们的味道会突然爆发出来，新鲜得不得了。

Like they really do pop after like a few weeks like they're as fresh as can be.

是的。

Yeah.

所以那正是最直接让我想立刻尝试的事情。

So that was kind of like the most immediate like thing.

我当时就想，我现在就要这么做。

I was like, I wanna do this now.

他们就说，好吧。

And they're like, okay.

太好了。

That's great.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我们来说也简单多了。

That that makes it easy for us too.

比如，我们只是

Like, we just

有两种

have two

酵母菌株在发酵。

yeast strains going.

我想另一个变化是我们使用的浑浊酵母不同了。

And I guess the other change too was just what hazy yeast we were using.

所以他们用的是我不确定，这可能不对。

So they were using I don't I don't want it might this might be this might be wrong.

可能是White Labs。

It could be White Labs.

忘了是哪一个了。

Forget which one which one it was.

但我带了Imperial 38酵母，因为那是我熟悉的，也是我非常喜欢的，我喜欢它给浑浊啤酒带来的风味。

But I brought an Imperial a 38 juice because that's what I knew and that's what I really liked and I liked what it brought to hazy beer.

它尤其在浑浊的双倍IPA中表现突出。

It it always especially in double IPAs that that were hazy.

它总是有一种像奶油冰淇淋般的酒花风味。

It always had this hop ice cream quality to it.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是当它最终呈现出类似四到五成橡皮泥的口感时，这。

Especially if it finished in this like four to five Play Doh range, which

酒花冰淇淋。

Hop ice cream.

你是过去两天里第二个来自布鲁克林的酿酒师。

You're the second Brooklyn brewer in the last two days.

好的。

Okay.

他们用冰淇淋这个比喻来形容浑浊IPA和双倍IPA。

They've used the ice cream metaphor to describe hazy IPA and double IPA.

我不知道这里是什么情况，

I don't know what it is out here,

但这不是我说的，我的意思是，我必须在West亲自体验过才行。

but It's not a I mean, I I had to experience this at West.

是的。

Yeah.

所以很有趣，居然还有来自这里的人这么说，但其实

So it's like it's funny that someone else from here would say that, but it's

那并不是在Test那里，那是他常用的比喻之一。

It's not been from test where that was one of his his big metaphors there.

有道理。

Makes sense.

这不是甜味。

It's not a sweetness.

这是一种质感。

It's this textural thing.

这很难描述，因为听起来像是甜的东西，但它其实不是甜的。

It's this like it's hard to describe without it like sounding like a sweet thing, but it's not a sweet thing.

对。

Right.

它就只是存在而已。

It just it's just exists.

我不知道

I don't know

它是什么

what it's

这是一种饱满感。

It's fullness.

它有种朦胧感。

It's cloudy.

它像枕头一样。

It's like pillow.

它像棉花糖那种东西。

It's like a cotton candy sort of thing.

不知道。

Don't know.

对。

Yeah.

但一个38号果汁是A

But a but a 38 Juice is the A

38号果汁

38 Juice

这就是你用AZAPA的那个东西。

is That's the the thing for you with the AZAPA.

是的。

Yeah.

我试过其他几种，但我就是一直回到38号。

And I I tried some other ones and I I just I kinda keep going back to the a 38.

我只是喜欢它的表现。

Just I like how it performs.

他们推出了一款新的变体，结块更少。

They have a newer one that's out that's a variation of it that doesn't clump as much.

所以它在显微镜下更容易观察。

So it's a little bit easier to see under a microscope.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为这非常重要。

Because that's very important.

检查活力。

Checking viability.

检查你的密度中的活力。

Checking your viability in your in your density.

不过，关于竞争方面的最后一轮讨论，我们的发酵效果非常好。

So but this last round of, again, kinda talking about the competition stuff, we had excellent fermentations.

根据我的经验，38号酵母有时会有点难以掌控。

And just in my experience, it's like a 38 can be a little unyielding.

我们有时不知道它最终会发酵到什么程度。

Like, we sometimes don't know where it's gonna finish.

有时它会过度发酵。

Sometimes it over attenuates.

有时它会发酵不足。

Sometimes it under attenuates.

有时它会完全失控。

Sometimes it blows out all over the place.

不知为何，我们提交的这四款浑浊啤酒都经历了完美的发酵过程。

For whatever reason, all four of these hazy beers that we're entering were just like perfect fermentations.

它们没有失控，整个过程中密度和活性都非常好。

They didn't blow out all over the place and they had like great density and viability the whole time.

所以，我想我这番长篇大论的答案是：酵母是变化最大的因素。

So I guess kind of a long winded answer was the yeast is what changed the most.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

你是怎么做到的？我的意思是，你是如何管理风味转变的呢？

How did you I mean, how did you manage, you know, say, like the flavor transition there?

明白。

Yeah.

如果这些啤酒现在让人们有了某些期待，我们可以说它们是正在过渡的啤酒。

The if these are some beers that people have some expectations right now, we say that these are, you know, tapering beers.

所以每个人都知道，人们不会有一个固定的、标准的版本来对比这种啤酒的味道。

And so everyone, you know, it's not like people are gonna have like their canonical, you know, version of this and like, you know A flavor cross comparing this.

是的。

Yeah.

但正如布鲁斯提到的，我记得是Pint House的乔说过，从来没有人会因为你把啤酒做得更好而抱怨。

But, you know, and as, you know, as Bruce have said, think it was Joe from Pint House, like, one's ever complained when you make a beer better.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以，从这个角度来说，你们在这些啤酒上有没有一个过渡的过程，还是直接就上手做了？

And and so, you know, in that sense, you know, did were was there any process of transition for those or you just just go for it?

有一点。

A little bit.

你知道，做出任何改变的原因通常都不是为了彻底重做一切。

The, you know, the the reason for any changes is never usually let's completely redo this.

因为那样的话你只是在酿一种不同的啤酒，所以干脆给它起个新名字。关键就在于这些细微的调整，我在高地公园学到了这一点：我们会每两到三周酿一次Timbo，每次总会有些微小的改动。

Cause then you're just making a different beer, so just call it The something whole point is like these subtle tweaks and I I really kind of learned that at Highland Park about, you know, we would brew Timbo every two to three weeks and there's always something a little bit different that we might change.

完全不是大的改变。

Not a big change at all.

比如，我们减少硫酸盐的用量。

It would be let's reduce the sulfate.

或者，试试调整干投啤酒花之间的时间间隔之类的。

Let's, you know, experiment with like the space between dry hops or something like that.

所有原料都保持不变，我们只是在实验如何更有效地利用现有的东西。

It's like all the ingredients are still staying the same, but we're just experimenting on our side with effective use of what we already have going.

没错。

Right.

当你不需要某种东西时，就该把它去掉，最大化地利用它。

Getting the most out of it when you don't need it anymore, get rid of it.

所以，干投啤酒花这里确实有了一些变化，因为我喜欢这种安排方式，它能很好地配合酵母管理——当你酿造一款使用34/70酵母并要进行干投的啤酒时。

And so, like dry hops did change a little bit here because I do I like how it all kind of lines up for yeast management when you can be brewing a beer with thirty four seventy that's gonna be getting a dry hop.

你知道，如果是第二代或更晚的菌株，发酵六天左右就准备好收获了，这样你可以提前几个月规划酿造计划。

You know that if it's gen two or later, about six days into fermentation, it's gonna be ready to harvest so you can plan your brew schedule out that way months in advance.

你在这两个方向上都有一定的灵活性。

You have some leeway both ways too.

所以，如果你需要再多等一天，也没关系。

So if you do need to wait another day, it's gonna be fine.

以前他们可能在发酵活跃期进行干投酒花，但我们这里不这么做。

There was never you know, they weren't maybe at some point they were dry hopping during active fermentation, but we're not doing that here.

我个人不喜欢这样。

I don't personally like it.

所以并没有出现那种极端的改变。

So there there was no like no crazy change like that.

但是

But

你为什么不喜欢在发酵活跃期干投酒花？

What do you not like about active dry hopping?

活跃发酵还是加酒花？

Active fermentation or hopping?

我觉得这没什么太大作用。

I I don't think it does a whole lot.

好的。

K.

而且这会破坏你后续使用的酵母代际。

And it kind of ruins your further generations

对。

Right.

你接下来要使用的酵母。

Of yeast that you're gonna be using.

所以我觉得这有点浪费。

So it's kind of I think it's kind of a waste.

而且这还很容易导致喷涌，挺危险的。

It's also pretty dangerous for geysers.

看起来，关于这一点的大部分关注点都集中在发酵前的投料阶段，也就是提前加酒花。

Seems like most of the, you know, the momentum around that is either, you know, just upfront, you know, pre fermentation, you know, hopping Mhmm.

相比之下，是在发酵前端多加一些，而不是在发酵后期才添加。

And extra loading on that front end, you know, versus adding at this tail end of fermentation.

如果你打算利用生物转化，最好在发酵前期就使用更先进的高端酒花产品。

It seems like, you know, if you're gonna go for biotransformation, just, you know, use more advanced top products earlier early ish, you know, pre fermentation in that process.

嗯。

Mhmm.

尽早充分发挥它的效果，而不是在快结束时才加一些九十年代的酒花。

Get all the effect out of it rather than, you know, adding some t nineties Yeah.

也就是在接近发酵终点的一两天前才添加。

You know, a day or two before you hit terminal.

而且，比起这些，关注酵母的健康状况可能更重要。

And I mean, just paying attention to your yeast health is like probably even more important than any of that Yeah.

因为即使我们设计配方时已经考虑了干投酒花的缓慢发酵效应，酵母依然会保持活跃。

Because it's gonna be it's gonna still be active even if there is you know, we would build recipes with dry hop creep sort of built into it.

所以我们知道，在干投啤酒花之后，风味大约会有相当于一到两倍橡皮泥的变化。

So we knew that there was gonna be about a Play Doh or Play Doh and a half to two sometimes of change post dry hop.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这些也都属于生物转化。

So like that that's all biotransformation as well.

但另一件事是现在更倾向于使用热力产品。

But the other thing is kinda leaning into hot products now.

像Hyperboost和萜烯这类东西，我最近用得很多。

It's like Hyperboost and terpenes are something that I've been using a lot here.

我们会在发酵活跃期加入这些，但它们是液态形式投入的。

And we do put those in during active, but those are liquid forms going in.

你一次会加入大约八到十二盎司。

You're putting in, you know, eight to 12 ounces at a time.

这并不是固态物质与释放的二氧化碳发生反应。

It's not solids that are reacting with c o two that's being released.

所以它们并不一定携带来所有那些能够持续启动整个过程的酶

So They're not necessarily bringing all the, like, other enzymes along with them that, you know, can keep keep kick start all of that

东西。

stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

所以咱们再回头聊聊竞争方面的事。

So kind of come going back to the competition stuff again too.

在我们即将推出的很多啤酒中，我们都会在早期加入Hyperboost和萜烯，还有一些提取物，就像泰勒和罗斯也提到过提取物这一点，你早期就加进去。

It's like we have in a quite a few of these beers that we're gonna be putting out, we have, you know, Hyperboost and terpenes, some abstracts in there early on and we would kind of find that I mean, Tyler mentioned this too and and Ross too on the abstracts one, but like, you put it in early on.

最初几天你可能注意不到，但一周后，天啊。

You might not notice it initially the next couple days, but then like a week later, holy shit.

我们是不是已经干投完了？

Like, did we dry off this already?

你可能会觉得，它依然保持着同样的效果。

You'd like it's still it has that same effect.

然后你可以在其基础上进一步增添风味，真正扩展出复杂而丰富的香气和味道组合。

And then you can then just build more flavor on top of that and just like really expand that complex aroma and flavor package out of it.

我们来聊聊这一点。

Let's talk about that a little bit.

现在，显然，既然我们正在讨论高端产品，你之前在录音前就特别提到，你一直在研发这些高级酒花产品和萜烯版本，因为它们可能提供更持久的稳定性。

Now, obviously, since we're now talking about advanced top products, you you you are you specifically said before we started recording that, you know, you've been working on these advanced hop products, terpene editions because they provide, you know, more long term stability potentially Mhmm.

你知道，相比像T90这样的干投酒花，它们的稳定性更好。

You know, than than, you know, say a a t 90, you know, dry hop.

这并不是说你只用其中一种或另一种。

Not that you do one or the other.

显然，这些技术都是同时配合使用的。

Obviously, you know, these things are all happening in concerts.

你并不能完全用这些提取物和萜烯来替代T90或者像Cryo、Lupamax、CGX这样的浓缩酒花。

Like, you know, there is not necessarily a way that you can replace, you know, t nineties or, you know, concentrated hops like cryo, Lupamax, CGX, you know, just completely with, you know, with some of these extracts and terpenes.

但确实，将它们结合使用，能够提升风味的持久性。

You know, but, you know, but there is something to be said for using them together so that you can promote that kind of longevity to it.

谈谈这种持久性吧，从感官角度来说，你使用这些产品时发现了什么？你是怎么发现用它们能更好地延长啤酒的酒花风味的？

Talk to me about that longevity piece and what, you know, from a sensory perspective you found in using those and how you have found that it's pretty effective to to get more longevity out of that hop character using these.

是的。

Mhmm.

就我个人而言，像DynaBoost和Incognito这类产品在中间层次的表现非常好。

I mean, just for me personally, it the things like DynaBoost and Incognito do really well for that sort of like middle ground.

比如，当你在煮沸阶段酿造啤酒时，所有加入热端的成分都属于基础层面——你获得苦味，同时也得到一些单宁和芳香化合物，这些可能在你喝啤酒时根本注意不到。

Like, if you're thinking about when you're making a beer in the boil, everything that's going into the hot side is sort of like the the the lower end, like the baselines where you're getting your bitterness, but you're getting some tannin and some aromatic compounds that you might not even be thinking about when you're actually drinking the beer.

但它们确实以较小的量存在，形成了一层基础风味。

But they are there in smaller quantities, but it's like it's this base layer.

然后是中间层，比如Incognito和DynaBoost，具体效果也取决于啤酒的类型。

And then you have this this middle layer, which is the incognito, the DynaBoost, where it's this like it depends on the beer as well.

我并不特别喜欢在非浑浊啤酒中使用它们。

I don't particularly love it in non hazy beer.

我会感受到一种树脂般的味道，而我不太喜欢这种口感。

I I get this sort of resinous kind of character that I don't love.

它适合某些风格，但我更喜欢的西海岸啤酒风格更细腻，没那么刺激。

It fits in some styles, but the type of West Coast hoppy beer that I prefer is a little bit more delicate and not as, like, abrasive.

它让我几乎联想到使用二氧化碳提取物进行苦味添加时那种相似的苦味特质。

It reminds me almost of the same bitterness sort of quality that you get when you use c o two extract for bittering.

有时候，这也非常依赖麦芽的组成。

Sometimes, again, it's like it it is very grist dependent as well.

但话虽如此，这些产品确实带来了很大帮助。

But that being said, that the those products do a lot for it.

就好像它们处于你所追求的整个啤酒花谱系的中间位置，它们既能提升高端风味，也能增强低端风味，让整个风味光谱变得更宽广，而且持续时间也更长。

It's like if they're in the middle of this sort of like array of hop that you're going for, they boost those higher ends and they boost the lower ends and they like they make this spectrum even wider and they last longer as well.

尤其是当你为比赛酿造啤酒时，你需要规划包装，还得送到当地的投递点。

And especially when you're kind of brewing beer for competition, you you're you're planning on, you know, your packaging, you're having to get it to your local drop off point.

对我们来说，幸运的是用的是Strongrope。

For us, it's Strongrope, thankfully.

然后，啤酒会被装进冷藏卡车，运输出去，或者你自己亲自运送。

And then, you know, it's getting into a refrigerated truck, it's being shipped or maybe you're doing it yourself.

你得用联邦快递连夜寄到丹佛或者比赛的其他地方。

You're overnighting it FedEx to Denver or wherever the con competition is.

但把啤酒装进行李里，是的。

But Packing into your luggage Yeah.

飞过去。

Flying there.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，如果你是鲍勃和埃文的话。

I mean Or if you're Bob and Evan

没错。

Exactly.

开车去吗？

Driving in a van?

开车。

Driving.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以，again，有非常多方法可以做到这一点。

So again, there's a lot of ways to do it too.

但最重要的是，要考虑它什么时候能到达？

But, know, the most important thing is thinking about when is it getting there?

它什么时候会被评审？

When is it being judged?

第二轮什么时候开始？

When is the second round?

颁奖典礼是什么时候？

When are, you know, the awards?

这就像是你在思考你所制作产品的生命周期，并尽力做到最好。

It's like you're thinking about the lifespan of this product that you've made and you're trying to do the best thing the best that you can.

我的意思是，最终，氧气对它来说是最糟糕的。

I mean, ultimately, it's oxygen is the worst for it.

因此，在转移过程中尽量减少氧气的吸入，确保你的储罐经过净化，包装流程可靠，这些都与此相关；但通过添加一些这些成分，你还能获得额外的好处——从感官上讲，它们会让人觉得是昨天包装的，但实际上可能已经存放了三个月。

So minimizing o two pickup during transfer and making sure your tanks are purged and that your process of packaging is sound and all that stuff also ties into it, but you can give yourself a little bit even more of a benefit by adding some of these things in that from a sensory perspective, you would think that they were packaged yesterday, but they could be three months old.

而且，我知道，因为我们在这里会对产品进行质量检测。

And, you know, I I've experienced that because we will run QAQC on stuff here.

我过去在其他公司工作时也会这么做，只是为了确保它们尽可能可靠。

We would do it, you know, back in my past jobs as well, just to make sure that they were as sound as possible.

而且你

And you

但你是否认为，使用3470这类拉格酵母进行发酵，以及硫化物的产生和硫的防腐特性，也为这些西海岸IPA带来了长期的稳定性优势呢？

think though that the lager yeast fermentation using what thirty four seventy and that kind of sulfur production and some of the preservative quality of that sulfur is also, you know, yielding some, you know, long term stability benefit to, you know, to this these West Coast IPAs

也是如此。

as well.

我的意思是，我说不准能有多久。

I I mean, I can't say how long.

显然，这并不确定。

Obviously, it's not Sure.

几年吧，或者确实如此。

Years or Sure.

甚至几个月。

Even months.

但确实，它能

But, like, it does

如果你的时间从60天延长到75天，那就够了。

that If it takes you from sixty days to seventy five, that's enough.

这很棒。

That's great.

如果你的时间从75天延长到90天，那就够了。

If it takes you from seventy five to ninety, that's enough.

这还只是酵母

And that's just the yeast

也是。

too.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，在这种范围内，就像我们刚才说的，嗯，也许我们稍微退一步说。

So, you know, in in in this kind of scope, as we're if as we're talking about, you know, and so well, maybe let's back up a little bit.

你知道，你提到要做出这些不同的选择，无论是西海岸IPA还是浑浊IPA。

You know, you talk about making some of these different selections, whether you're talking about West Coast IPA or or hazy IPA.

你知道，这些方面对你来说有什么不同吗？

You know, how does some of that vary for you?

所以你喜欢那些带来更强树脂感的品种。

So you like some of these, know, some of these that drive a little bit more resinous character.

它们在浑浊IPA中能很好地存在，因为浑浊IPA有足够的甜度来缓冲这些风味。

They can live in an east at a hazy IPA because it has enough kind of sweetness to buffer some of those some of those flavors.

我想，树脂感在像拉格这样干净的发酵风格中表现得不太一样。

I guess some of the resinous character doesn't show the same way that it does with something as clean as like a lager ferment.

但说到浑浊啤酒，新英格兰IPA虽然已经存在很久，但就像西海岸IPA一样，现在更注重酒花，麦芽只是用来提供一点平衡，让酒花真正突出。

But guess with like with hazy beer too, it's like there is the New England IPA that's been around, but there's also this like much like West Coast IPA has changed and it's more focused on now like the hops and like the malt is there to give a little bit of balance and to kinda just get out of the way, let the hops really shine.

西海岸风格的浑浊啤酒也是如此。

West Coast hazy beer is that same way.

即使有些啤酒的最终比重达到五左右，从纸面上看似乎会很甜，但考虑到它的初始比重、pH值、添加的大量酒花，以及不同酵母菌株带来的风味，这些都能很好地平衡甜度，避免让它变得过于甜腻。我总是把新英格兰IPA形容为像杏仁糖衣一样。

Like, even if some of these beers do finish at, you know, five Play Doh or so, which on paper sounds like it would be sweet, but the way, you know, where it starts with the OG and where the pH lands and the intense amount of hoppin' meat you're adding to it and the flavor that you get from these different yeast strains really help to kinda balance that out and to not make it so it's this, like, I I always kinda describe like New England IPAs as having this like Jordan almond coating on them.

它并不是那种纯粹的甜腻，但确实有种特别的口感，我就是不太喜欢。

Like, it's this not really saccharin sweet, but it's like there's something to it that I just I don't love.

我认为这很大程度上是由于较高的残糖度，或者是活跃的干投酒花。

And I think a lot of that is higher finishing gravity or it could be active dry hop.

我觉得我在某些啤酒中体验过这种感觉。

I I feel like I've had that in certain ones.

所以啤酒总是在不断演变。

So it's like as beers beers are always evolving.

因此你会从每种啤酒中找到自己喜欢的元素，并将其融入到自己的酿造中。

So it's like you kind of find what you like from each one and kind of pull those things into what you're making.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

在过去几天里，我在这里品尝了各种浑浊的新英格兰风格IPA，觉得非常有趣。

I I have found it really interesting over the last couple of days out here drinking people's, you know, hazy New England style IPAs.

我真心认为，那些残糖度在五到六度Play Doh的啤酒被误解为太甜了，因为好的啤酒，你根本感受不到那种甜味。

And I honestly think that peep like, five and six Play Doh beers are getting a bad rap for sweetness because the good ones, like, you still don't perceive that.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

你之所以感觉不到，有好多原因。

And you don't perceive it for a bunch of reasons.

有时候是因为苦味的平衡，你知道的，西海岸的酿酒师往往觉得这些啤酒在甜味和苦味上失衡。

Sometimes it's balancing bitterness in the way that, you know, West Coast producers tend to also find those beers imbalance, like, with sweetness and with bitterness.

我还发现，如果你喝像Fidens、Noble Savage，或者这里一些更潮流的浑浊IPA，比如Root and Branch之类的。

I also found, you know, if you, you know, drink like the, you know, Fidens or Noble Savage or some of the, you know, the more hipster kind of end of hazy IPA out here, root and branch and whatnot.

它们成功地让人感觉轻盈，尽管酒精残糖量其实相当高。

Like, they they they manage this kind of they they manage to feel light despite this kind of, you know, rather high, you know, finishing gravity.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，你知道，我觉得当人们只尝到它们那种蓬松、绵密的口感时，这些啤酒就被误解了，当然，前几天Test也是这样。

And, you know, there's a you know, and again, I think that I think they get a bad rap when you taste just how kind of pillowy and, you know, and of course, Test was the same way, you know, the other day.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

它们有一种神奇的效果，让你觉得它们的口感比根据残糖度预期的要轻盈得多。

Like they they they have this magic effect to them where they end up feeling lighter than you think that they should feel with that kind of finishing gravity.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这个风格整体上也在进步。

I I I think the style in general is improving too.

人们很聪明，他们不会一遍又一遍地酿造同样的东西。

Like, people are people are smart that they are not just brewing the same thing over and over again.

他们会根据消费者的味蕾逐渐适应的趋势调整酿造方式，而且现在消费者普遍更懂行了，所以你不能再敷衍了事。

They're adjusting what they're brewing to what people's palates are kind of acclimating to and, you know, it it comes up a lot of like consumers are more educated now, so you can't really you can't kinda skate by anymore.

因此，你必须精明聪明地设计你的产品，确保它能精准满足人们期待的各个要点。

And so you have to be savvy and smart about what you're making and make sure that it's like hitting all these these these marks that people are looking for.

我喝过一些Finback双倍IPA，简直好喝到停不下来。

I I have had some, you know, Finback double IPA where like it's just crushable.

不知怎么的，你们居然能把8%酒精度的双倍浑浊IPA酿得如此易饮，这真是太了不起了。

Like, somehow you figured out how to make double IPA, double hazy IPA at 8%, like, crushable, and that's an amazing thing.

所以我想明确地说一下，我认为人们对这些啤酒有一些假设，但当你来到这里，真正体验过后，就能明白为什么这些啤酒有效，为什么人们喜欢它们。

And so I I just wanna, you know, put it out there for the record that I think that, you know, there are some assumptions about what these beers are that when you get here and you actually experience like, I can see why these work and why people enjoy them.

而且，为什么酿酒师们实际上也乐于接受它们。

And, you know, why brewers actually, like, you know, are are okay.

他们愿意酿造这些啤酒，并且享受这个过程，因为它们确实能带来某种神奇的效果。

They they're okay with making them and they enjoy making them because, you know, they they kind of produce some magic there.

总之，话说多了。

Anyway, long story.

让我们深入探讨一下这些内容。

Let's let's like make sure that we drill down on some of this.

就拿你们现在酿造的西海岸风格IPA来说，还有西海岸皮尔森，从你们的西海岸背景出发，你们是否会特别倾向于使用某些特定的酒花风味，来为这些啤酒赋予恰当的定义、口感或特征？

In terms of, you know, say West Coast I West Coast style IPA that you make here now and, you know, are there and even for that matter, West Coast Pilsner, are there some specific kind of hop characters that you find yourself leaning into coming from your West Coast background that you find, you know, create the right kind of definition or texture or character in some of these beers?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，西楚和莫萨克显然是酒花世界和酒花啤酒中的两大王者。

I mean, Citroen Mosaic are obviously like two of the kings of just the hop world, hoppy beers.

我们这里大量使用Strata。

We use a lot of Strata here.

这款酒里含有Strata。

This has Strata in it.

我非常喜欢新西兰。

I love New Zealand.

你最喜欢Strata的哪些方面？

What do you love about Strata?

嗯，Strata刚推出时很棒，但后来几年表现很差，就像Galaxy一样。

Well, I'd so Strata was great when it first came out and then it kind of took a shit for a few years, much like Galaxy.

但现在它又强势回归了，表现相当出色。

And it's really come back around and has been, like, pretty excellent.

它真的是

It's it's

种

kind

就像是一种混合，像一幅马赛克一样。

of a, like it's a mix of, like, such a mosaic.

嗯，现在它就属于这个范畴了。

Like, I I I it's it's in that realm now.

它简直就是一种大杂烩式的Strata，现在全都融合在一起了。

It's, like, such a mosaic strata, like, kind of all together now in there.

我和Rooze的Sean聊过这个话题，真的让我大开眼界，当他开始接触Strata时，他说我们通常会选四种不同的Strata，因为这种啤酒花非常广泛，可以在Strata内部以多种不同方式呈现出来，嗯。

It was mind blowing for me talking to Sean from Rooze, you know, about this and, you know, as he was getting into Strata, he's like, you know, we generally have like four different Strata selections because it's such a broad hop that we can, you know, within Strata, you can get it to express in so many different ways Mhmm.

他们通常都会混合不同种类的Strata，来让整体风味更平衡。

That, you know, that they they all often do blends of different Strata just to round everything out.

是的。

Yeah.

所以全部都是Strata。

So it's all Strata.

但这样描述并不够准确，因为它并不是在传达单一的风味。

It just doesn't doesn't feel as accurate to describe the you know, it doesn't it's not like it's telling you one thing.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，正是出于这个原因，Strata非常棒。

So, I mean, Strata is great for that reason.

而且，很多啤酒花也是如此，这取决于它们采摘的时间。

And, I mean, a lot of hops are that way too depending on when they're picked

以及种植的地点。

and where

还有其他各种因素。

they're grown and all that.

但我也很喜欢新西兰的啤酒花，比如这款酒里用了莫图卡，还有进入旋涡槽的超级莫图卡。

But I love New Zealand hops as well and like this has Motueka, this has Mega Motueka which goes into the Whirlpool.

超级莫图卡？

Mega Motueka?

超级莫图卡。

Mega Motueka.

什么是Mega Motueka？

What is Mega Mega Motueka?

富含硫醇。

Thiol enriched.

所以多年前

So years ago

富含硫醇。

Thiol enriched.

是的。

Yeah.

所以YCH与Phantasm合作，推出了Phantasm，它与西姆科、莫萨克和柑橘冷萃一起进行共 palletized 处理。

So YCH teamed up with Phantasm and they did Phantasm that was co palletized with Simcoe Mosaic and Citra Cryo together.

它的用途是在发酵前的上游热端添加。

And it was meant to go into the hot side upstream before fermentation.

对。

Right.

我们在高地公园做过一种富硫醇酵母，添加了大量前体物质，但如果你走得太极端，味道就会过于强烈。

And we had done back in Highland Park, we had done a thiol thiolized yeast with a lot of like precursors and if you go too extreme, it just gets too intense.

它会变得有一种甜腻、橡胶味、果香交织的感觉，很难形容，但有趣的是，当它作为生啤供应时，味道还会经历起伏变化。

It gets to this like sort of sweet, rubbery, fruity it's kinda difficult to explain, but it like it goes through this like, it also what's interesting about it is that it goes through these ups and downs when it's on draft too.

比如，这一周的味道可能和下一周完全不同，再下一周又完全不同。

Like, one week it it can taste totally different than the next week, totally different from the week after that.

这不仅仅是陈放时间的原因，有时候它反而尝起来更新鲜，有时候那种橡胶味又会消失。

Not just because of age, but like sometimes it actually tastes fresher, sometimes it like loses that rubber thing.

所以非常奇怪。

So very strange.

从那以后，我就很少再使用硫醇酵母了，但拉格酵母确实有些特别，你知道，鲍勃以前也提到过，蒂姆博啤酒里有种难以捉摸的风味。

I I don't I haven't used thiolus yeast too much since then, but there is something to lager yeast and, you know, Bob's talked about this before too of there was something about Timbo that was you couldn't really kinda pin it down what it was.

它带有一种果香，你能感知到，却说不清具体是什么。

There's some fruitiness to it that you you perceived it, but you didn't know what it was exactly.

你也不知道它为什么会存在。

You didn't know why it was there.

结果发现，这里面的原料含有前体物质，使用的是地板发芽大麦。

And it turns out that there are precursors in so this has floor malt floor malted barley in it.

原料中含有的前体物质

There's precursors in

我们正在谈论你的西海岸啤酒和别眨眼。

And we're talking about your West Coast pills and your don't blink.

这款就是别眨眼。

This is don't blink.

这款酒全部使用地板发芽麦芽，加了一点点Carafoam，而这些麦芽之所以采用地板发芽，是因为地板材质（无论是混凝土还是木材）本身含有微生物群落。

So this is all floor malted boat pills, a little bit of Carafoam, and malt floors that are floor malted due to the nature of the porous, whether it's concrete or wood, there's microflora in there.

因此，有一些前体物质会附着在正在干燥的麦芽上。

And so there are precursors that basically latch on to the malt that is being dried.

当他们用耙子翻动麦芽时，这些物质就逐渐融入了地板之中。

So when they're running the rakes through it, it's it's becoming part of this floor that's there.

几年前NBA做过一个播客，专门讲过这个事情。

The NBA had a podcast couple years ago that they talked all about it.

这太有趣了，一切突然都明白了。

It was fascinating and it it it all kinda clicked.

就像突然意识到，哦，原来那就是我们一直说不清的东西。

It was like, oh, that's what that thing is that we couldn't really pin down.

是风格的问题。

It was styles.

所以，回到Mega Motueka吧。

So anyway, so back to Mega Motueka.

这是与Phantasm一起制成颗粒的Motueka。

It's Motueka that was pelletized with Phantasm together.

它被投入热端，进入旋涡槽。

And so it goes into the hot side, into the whirlpool.

Yeet Logger酵母也能释放一些硫醇前体。

Yeet Logger Yeast is good at releasing some thyl precursors as well.

我们不希望味道太过分。

We didn't want it to be too over the top.

所以我们没有选择使用Thial，就是出于这个原因。

So we didn't want to use a Thial is used for that reason.

然后加入莫图埃卡、斯特拉和尼尔森萨班进行干投酒花。

And then it gets Motueka, Strata, and Nelson Saban dry hop.

新西兰酒花在这方面非常独特。

And so there's just the New Zealand hops are very specific about.

你总能一眼认出它们的存在。

You can always tell when they're there.

澳大利亚的酒花也是如此，能够从世界各地挑选，获得你想要的各种风味，这真的很酷。

Same with Australian hops too, and it's it's it's very cool to be able to, like, kinda pick from all over the world and, like, get all these different qualities that you're looking for.

当你选择新西兰酒花时，你会关注不同品种的哪些具体特性？

When you're selecting New Zealand hops, what are there specific qualities you're looking for some of the different varieties?

尼尔森萨尔蒙基本上很稳定，通常都相当一致，不会太

Nelson salmon's pretty for the most part, it's, like, pretty consistent as far as, like, not being

你从哪儿弄来这些疯狂的？

Where do you get your crazy.

你从哪里获得你的纳尔逊

Where do you get your Nelson

三文鱼？

salmon?

自由风格。

Freestyle.

自由风格。

Freestyle.

是的。

Yeah.

我们大部分原料都是通过自由风格提供的。

Well, most of our stuff comes through freestyle.

Rwokka 这种酒花你需要特别小心，因为它采摘的时间很关键。

Rwokka is one that you have to be pretty careful depending on when it's picked.

这是一种非常两极分化的酒花，有点像银河酒花，取决于采摘窗口、种植地点或其他因素，它可能闻起来像生菜，也可能直接散发出咖喱的气味。

It's a very polarizing hop, kinda like Galaxy, I guess, where depending on the pick window or maybe where it's grown or whatever, it can be like it almost smells like lettuce or it could just smell like straight up curry.

这是一种非常强烈的酒花。

It's a very intense hop.

所以当你用它的时候，你能明显感觉到它的存在。

So it's like, you know when it's there.

因此，如果你能想象得到的话，选择细微的风味非常重要，因为Rwokka太强势了。

And so it's important to really be selecting for subtlety if you can even picture that with a Rwaca because it's so aggressive.

但重要的是，要把它用在低浓度的酒液里。

But it's just important to just use it in low water.

另外，外面也有一些挺有意思的Rwokka品种。

Another kind of, like, you get some interesting kind of Rwaca out there.

是的。

Yeah.

但它的变化范围非常有趣。

But the range is fascinating.

种植者们讨厌它，因为产量太低了。

The the growers hate it because the yield's terrible.

而且你知道，令人着迷的是，Roowka 是新西兰的官方拉格啤酒花。

And, you know, but it's also fascinating that, you know, that Roowka is the official lager hop of New Zealand.

我的意思是，这就是新西兰皮尔森啤酒的标准。

Like, I mean, that's the standard for New Zealand pilsner out there.

所以，我们在美国对它的看法是这样，但你知道，它在那边还有其他一些用途。

So, you know, we think about it in one way in The United States, but, you know, it's it's it's got some some other legs there.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，除了这些，你在西海岸酿造皮尔森啤酒时，还会用到哪些其他啤酒花风味？

You know, so anything else to, you know, some of the, you know, hop characters you're building out West Coast, you know, Pilsner?

至少我希望有一点点浓烈的香气，我是喜欢的。

So you want least I'd want a slight amount of dankness, I do like.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但更偏向于像茂宜岛洋葱那样的甜味。

But more in the vein of like Maui onion sweetness.

好的。

Okay.

不是那种生洋葱或大蒜的味道。

Not like raw onion or garlic.

你这么说是什么意思？

What do mean for that?

Mosaic（品种）。

Mosaic.

好的。

Okay.

通常如此。

Usually.

Simcoe会带来一些那种风味

Simcoe gives some of that

还有。

too.

Mosaic确实具有一些那种硫醇风味，尤其是来自新西兰的，你知道的，浓度越高越明显。

Mosaic has some of that kind of thiol y New Zealand, like, you know, especially in higher concentrations.

而且，

And,

我的意思是，Mosaic也可能非常强烈，它似乎有一种我说不上来的特质。

I mean, Mosaic can be super potent too and, it seems to have I don't know.

我觉得Mosaic有时候甚至比Citra还要更强烈一些。

I I think I think Mosaic can be a little bit more intense than Citra even sometimes.

你绝对能分辨出Mosaic的存在。

You can definitely tell when Mosaic is there.

比如，我们刚酿了《Logical Conclusion》，这是我们的一款核心啤酒，但这次是为了GABF酿造的。

Like, we just brewed Logical Conclusion, which is one of our cores, but because we brewed it for GABF.

我特别喜欢它出来的效果，就像你所说的，关于浑浊啤酒，即使酒精度偏高，你还是想不停地喝，哪怕它是一款双倍IPA。

I really love how that came out and kinda what you're saying about, like, Hazy Beer, even if it finishes high, it's like you kinda wanna just like keep slamming it even if it's a double IPA.

所以我们也会推出它的双倍IPA版本。

So we have a double IPA version of that coming out also.

但在Logical这款酒里，你绝对能尝出Mosaic的存在，因为它有一种很特别的风味——这听起来可能不太好形容，但就像Mosaic的‘汗味’一样。

But in logical, you can definitely tell the Mosaic is there because it has this cool, like this might sound bad, but it's like this like Mosaic sweat.

它有种类似溶剂的味道。

It's like b o to it.

当然。

Sure.

当然。

Sure.

如果你在干投后让Nelson Sauvin放置太久，它也会出现类似的情况。

Which Nelson Soven gets as well if you let it sit for too long after a dry hop.

但我其实挺喜欢这种味道的，因为它给酒带来了一种有趣的、略带 funk 的风味，而这种风味又被其中的Citra和Simcoe等其他成分很好地平衡了。

But I kinda like that because it, like, gives it this, like, interesting sort of, like, funk sort of spin to it, but then it's balanced out by everything else that's in there with the Citra and the Simcoe as well.

所以，我想回答你的问题，我们更追求那种清新、热带、高音调、极其鲜活的风味，因为你想让这些风味真正融入啤酒中，而不是在干投后残留的少量发酵过程中挥发掉。

So I I guess to answer your question, it's more we're looking for like zesty, tropical, high tone, super vibrant because you want those things to to make their way into the beer, not just blow off during, you know, the little bit of fermentation that might be left from dry hop.

你刚才提到，如果Nelson Sauvin放置太久，会变得有溶剂味，能详细说说吗？

Talk to me I mean, you just mentioned that Nelson's solvent will get sweaty if you let it sit too long.

嗯。

Mhmm.

聊聊这些啤酒的干投酒花接触时间吧，不同酒花会不会影响这个时间？

Like, talk to me about dry hop contact times on these and does that change based based on which hops you're using?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

你谈谈你对这个问题是怎么考虑的。

You know, talk to me about how you think about that with this.

至少对我来说，几年前刚开始是这样，我们酿过蒙特·内尔森这款精酿啤酒，但我们就只是酿了

So it it kinda started a few years ago for me at least with we had brewed Mount Nelson, the cell maker beer, but we just we brewed

我正想说，我们确实酿了。

was gonna say that's We brewed it.

是的。

Yeah.

我们只是因为在高地公园喜欢这款啤酒，所以就在那儿酿了。

We brewed it at Highland Park just because we like that beer.

嗯嗯。

Uh-huh.

但你知道，合作的精彩之处不仅仅是在标签上互相贴上对方的名字。

But, you know, one of the cool things about collaborations is not just like slapping each other's names on the label.

而是真正地合作，分享关于工艺或你喜欢的新原料、使用它们的新方法，也许你已经

It's like actually collaborating on it and sharing insight as to process or like new ingredients that you like, new ways of using them that maybe you've

我一直很喜欢你们和高地公园、 pint house、cloud brewers、green cheek 等合作的那些项目。

I've always loved that with that collaboration you guys did or Highland Park did with, you know, Pint House and Cloud brewers and Green Cheek and whatnot.

互相酿造对方的啤酒。

Just brew each other's beers.

是的。

Yeah.

酿造对方

Brew each

的啤酒，那真的很棒，总是能学到很多。

other's That that was a great it's always a great to learn.

关键是，合作的整个目的就是互相学习。

Like, the whole point is to the whole point of a collaboration is to learn from each other.

我们并不是为了，嗯，只是

It's like, we're not here to, like, be

你知道，当那群人把这些啤酒的所有迭代版本都寄给我们时，嗯。

You know, and and when when, you know, the that crew would send us all of the iterations of these beers Mhmm.

能够品尝同一种基础配方，但每个酿酒厂使用的啤酒花、麦芽以及他们的酿造工艺都不同，这让人眼界大开——原来它们都是完全不同的啤酒。

And being able to taste the same baseline recipe, but with each individual brewery's hop selection and the you know, their malts, you know, and their process behind it like eye opening to see, you know, they're all they're different beers.

是的。

Yeah.

啤酒的名字一样，配方也一样，但这种酿造过程和原料选择，却造出了截然不同的啤酒。

The same name on the beers, the same recipe, you know, and yet that kind of process ingredient selection, you know, creates wildly different beers.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的意思是，蒂姆博周也完美体现了这一点，因为今年我们参与了，而且鲍勃和詹姆斯还专程过来参加了。

I mean, Timbo Week is perfect for that too because, like, every year we were part of it this year and actually Bob and James came out for it.

但我们在这里酿了Timbo，能尝到北公园和Celamaker的版本，这可能是整个过程中最有趣的部分。

But we brewed Timbo here and, you know, getting to try that was one of the most fun things about it was, like, getting to try North Park's version and Celamaker's version.

每个酒厂都有自己独特的风格。

You can always, there's house character to each one.

所以很酷的是，大家都带来同样的啤酒，但这也正是合作的真正意义所在。

So it was cool to, like everyone's bringing the same beer, but it's, like, that's the whole point of, like, collaborating.

我们并不是想对任何事情保密。

It's, like, we're not trying to be secretive about anything.

你可以，我们能把配方给你。

Like, you can we can give you a recipe.

但酿出来的味道不会一样。

It's not gonna be the same.

所以这会变成你自己的版本，用你自己的原料，诸如此类的东西。

So it's like, it's gonna be your version of it, your ingredients, that kind of thing.

所以时不时地，Pint House会赢得奖牌，是的。

So And every once in a while, Pint House wins a medal Yeah.

是的。

For Yeah.

我的意思是，还行吧。

I I mean, it's okay.

高地公园为蒂姆博赢得了众多奖牌。

Highland Park still won plenty of medals for Timbo.

去年拿了金牌。

It gold last year.

居然还是以美式淡色艾尔的身份。

What as an American pale ale of all things.

这是西海岸皮尔森首次成为正式类别的一年。

This is the first year that West Coast pills is an actual category.

得了吧，乔什。

Come on, Josh.

把我的老蒂姆博拿回来。

Bring my old Timbo back.

好吗？

Okay?

Timbo已经变了。

Timbo has changed.

我不喜欢这些变化。

I don't like these changes.

把原来的Timbo带回来。

Bring the old Timbo back.

现在你再也无法掌控这些了。

Now you don't have control over that anymore.

我不该对你这么说。

I shouldn't I shouldn't say that to you.

是的。

Yeah.

你不能

You can't

再对我大喊大叫了。

yell at me anymore.

所以回到我们酿造的蒙特内尔森啤酒。

So back to the so we brewed Mount Nelson.

所以接触时间很重要。

So contact time.

这很关键，尤其是对于南半球的啤酒花，特别是银河酒花。

So it matters, especially with Southern Hemisphere hops, Galaxy in particular.

你提到过拉卡啤酒有花生酱的味道。

You've mentioned peanut butter with Raka.

我们挑了一些类似组合的东西，比如

We we kind of picked out this thing that was like combos like

莫图伊卡也可以用莫图伊卡二号。

Motueka also can Motueka two.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，我也很喜欢爱达荷七号。

Actually, I get with Idaho seven a little bit too, which I I really like.

但银河啤酒花有一种类似假花生酱的味道。

But Galaxy has this like combos, fake peanut butter sort of thing.

因此，对于尼尔森索万和鲁瓦卡，缩短接触时间是最好的。

And so shorter contact time is best for Nelson Sovan, Ruwaka.

也许莫图卡，银河啤酒花肯定如此。

Maybe Motueka, Galaxy definitely.

当你说到缩短接触时间，对你来说这意味着什么？

When you say shorter contact time, what does that mean for you?

三到四天，而不是六天左右。

Three to four days compared to like six days.

我的意思是，像六天这样的接触时间？

I mean, with these like Six day contact time?

这种情况是可能发生的。

It can happen.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，现在的目标是

You know, the the goal now

这太疯狂了，乔什。

That's crazy, Josh.

是的。

Yeah.

现在的目标是疯狂的。

The goal now is Crazy.

因为这个过程一直在变化。

Like because the again, process continues to change.

所以我们还在继续缩短这些时间。

So it's like we're shortening those still.

所以实际上，这个批次的纳尔逊·索本是在第二次干投时加入的，浸泡了大约三天，然后我们进行了冷却处理。

So so actually this sat for Nelson Sobun went in second on the second dry hop, sat for maybe three days and we crashed it.

之后我们就开始降低温度，进行跳跃式降温。

And then we started, you know, dropping it, jumping it.

所以保持时间短，并且在第二次干投时操作，我认为很重要。

So keeping it short and keeping in the second dry hop, I think is important.

你最先应该处理的是像西楚、莫萨克这样的品种，它们很适合这样做。

The stuff that you wanna do first is like citra, mosaic's good for it.

或者反过来讲，如果你想要让像哥伦布这样带有辛辣洋葱、大蒜风味的酒花味道挥发掉，你就应该先加它。

Or sort of like I guess conversely is like if there's something like Columbus that you want the funky onion garlic stuff to blow out, you do that first.

所以这种情况下，你得仔细考虑每种酒花的特性。

So this kind of like, you have to be thinking about what it is.

哥伦布这种酒花可以放上几天，没什么问题；但像纳尔逊·索本这样的，出于类似原因，你就不该把它放在第一位。

Columbus can it's fine to sit on that for a a, you know, a few days compared to, like, you wouldn't wanna put Nelson Sobden in first for those similar reasons, I guess.

所以对于哥伦布，我们想让它挥发掉那些味道；而纳尔逊·索本，你只需要很短的接触时间，以免产生太重的臭味；银河酒花也是，别让它太久，否则会太像花生酱味。

So with Columbus trying to blow that stuff out, Nelson Sovereign, you just want, like, a little bit of contact time so it doesn't start to get too BOE or with Galaxy peanut buttery.

所以这完全取决于使用哪种啤酒花，以及它们在成品啤酒中浸泡的时间长短。

So it's like, it's it's all very hop dependent where you put it in, how long it sits for on finished beer.

跟我讲讲你是如何添加萜烯和一些高级啤酒花产品到这个过程中的。

Talk to me about how you then go about adding terpenes and some of the advanced hop products into that mix.

这款酒同时使用了Hyper Boost，里面含有Strata Hyper Boost，还有来自Abstract的Nelson Sauvin萜烯。

So this has both hyper boost and so it has Strata hyper boost in this and there's Nelson Sovan terpenes from abstracts.

这些成分会在非常早的时候添加，比如第二天。

So those go in super early, like day two.

基本上就是在冷激后一天，或者再往后一天左右。

Basically, like day after knockout or the day after that or something.

那你是对这些进行主动萜烯添加吗？

And So you're active turping these?

主动萜烯添加。

Active turping.

同时也会进行主动增强。

Active boosting as well.

好的。

Okay.

然后它会进入正常的

And then it goes through normal

那为什么要这么做呢？

Why why do it then?

为什么要在流程的这个阶段做呢？

Why do it at that that part of the process?

它会更充分地融合。

It's it it gets more integrated.

发酵过程中自然产生的对流有助于让这些成分更好地溶解。

The the natural conduction current that's happening during fermentation helps to kind of get it into solution a little bit better.

这样会让混合物更均匀。

It makes it more homogenous.

而最初，你知道，当我们把它们加进去的时候，我们基本上是在发酵后添加萜烯之类的东西，结果它们闻起来就是一股萜烯味。

Whereas initially, you know, when you put it in, we were putting it in we're putting it in post fermentation basically for, like, terpenes and stuff like that and we were it just they were smelling like they got terped.

我想泰勒可能也提到过这一点。

I I think maybe Tyler even talked about that a little bit.

这其中确实有点门道。

There was just something to it.

它尝起来不错，但好像里面有什么萜烯之类的东西。

It was like, it's good, but it's like there's like a terp in there or something.

但当你更早地将其融合进去时

But when you integrate it earlier on

感觉太刻意了。

Seems too intentional.

太刻意了。

Too intentional.

你能尝得出来。

Like, can you can pick it out.

是的。

Yeah.

关键就在于你根本无法分辨出来。

The whole point is that you can't really pick it out.

这就像是在构建一种流行风味和香气的复杂性。

It's like you're just building on that complexity of of like pop flavor and aroma.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你提前加入它，让它逐渐融入液体中，但一些更尖锐的香气可能也会因此挥发掉，没错。

And so you throw it in earlier and then it gets kind of worked through the the liquid, but then also some of the sharper notes probably, you know, end up getting blown off Yep.

你知道的，挥发到空气中。

You know, into the headspace.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的意思是，月桂烯是其中最易溶于溶液的化合物之一。

I mean, like, myrcene is one of the highest compounds that will stay in solution.

所以如果你能早点加入，它要么能很好地融合，要么稍微挥发一些，但仍能保留下来，而不是干脆在最后直接加入大量月桂烯。

So if you're able to get it in early, it can either integrate or like blow it a little bit and then still stay in rather than you're basically just like dosing a whole like bunch of mercine at the very end.

当你考虑整个冷端工艺时，比如一款西海岸皮尔森啤酒的酒花用量。

As you think about the entire say cold side, you know, hop load for a West Coast Pilsner.

是的。

Yeah.

很多最终都用在了这些所谓的增强型萜烯T90，或者说是浓缩型颗粒之类的产品上吗？

Much ends up in these kinds of, you know, boost terpene t 90 or say concentrated, you know, pellet kind of thing?

我的意思是，它们最初的设计初衷或许是作为替代品，但我们的目的并不是说，‘你可以加八盎司的超能增强剂，然后去掉11磅的T90’。

It's I mean, there I guess the basic design of them was to be a replacement sort of, but, you know, we're not doing it for, oh, you can add eight ounces of hyper boost and remove 11 pounds of t 90.

我们的想法是希望把它们结合起来使用。

It's like, we wanna use them in conjunction with each other.

对我们来说，使用这些产品才几个月，还算是比较新的尝试。

So this is still relatively new for us to be using these at, you know, a few months.

我们刚刚才开始接触这方面的应用。

It's like we we have just kind of gotten into it.

由于我们非常注重感官体验，所以想亲自看看效果如何。

So being very sensory focused, we kinda wanna see what it's like.

这些又是用于比赛的，所以我们基本上保持了一切不变，不是减少颗粒，而是增加额外的风味层次。

And these are, again, competition, so we kind of kept everything pretty much the same as far as, like, not reducing pellets, but just basically, like, adding, like, extra layers of flavor.

所以很有趣的是看看这些表现如何，我们会收集反馈，看看我们是否真的需要这额外的11磅。

And so it'd be interesting to see how these do and we'll get the feedback and kinda see what we wanna do as far as, like, do we wanna do we actually need that extra 11 pounds?

我们是否想把它去掉，换成其他东西，同时配合我们的目标——我们只是想要更多的层次，而不是替代。

Do we wanna pull that out to replace and kind of use that in conjunction with what our goal is, is just more layers rather than a replacement.

但这一点恐怕只有时间能告诉我们了。

But I guess time will tell for that.

我们会密切关注比赛，看看这款三号西海岸皮尔森与高地公园美式淡色艾尔相比如何。

We'll be following the competition closely to see how the Threes West Coast Gilsner compares to the Highland Park

天哪。

Oh, boy.

在美国淡色艾尔这个类别里参加比赛。

American pale ale, you know, in the the competition.

咱们别谈这个了。

Let's not let's not talk about that.

你知道的。

You know?

但在其他方面，也许我们会转而聊聊拉格啤酒，纯粹的拉格啤酒，因为虽然我们之前讨论过拉格啤酒的影响和拉格酵母在精酿啤酒爱好者圈子里的应用，但这里的Vleet对Threes来说却是个经典之作。

But in in in other you know, maybe we'll flip and talk about lager, you know, just, you know, pure lager in this sense because while we've talked about lager, you know, influence and lager yeast in this kind of hobby beer context, you know, Vleet here is kind of a classic for Threes.

这是一种你同样需要掌握的技艺。

It's something, you know, that, you know, so you also have this discipline now.

你一直都有这种技艺，Highland Park也同样具备这种拉格啤酒的严谨工艺。

Well, you've always had this discipline and Highland Park also has that same kind of lager discipline to it.

它能酿造出优美、简洁的皮尔森啤酒和类似的拉格啤酒。

It makes beautiful, straightforward, pilsner and similar lagers.

在这个Vleet的语境下，我们今天早些时候还喝过一款更小的版本——小Vleet。

In this kind of Vleet context, we also had a smaller version of that petite Vleet earlier today.

你能跟我谈谈你的做法吗？在这一点上，它更少依赖发酵，

How does talk to me about your approach to, in that sense, it's less fermentation based.

而更多地聚焦于麦芽，再辅以微妙的酒花风味。

It's much more kind of malt focused and then subtle hop focused.