恶名昭彰：残酷先生

而且特别是那件他让她穿上的制服夹克，对他来说似乎特别重要，因为克鲁尔先生曾告诉妮基，他有一个女学生幻想，并且曾跟踪她放学回家。

And it seems like the uniform jacket in particular, the one that he made her put on, was of particular interest to him because Mr.

克鲁尔先生实际上告诉妮基，他有一个女学生幻想，并且曾跟踪她放学回家。

Cruel actually told Nikki that he had a school girl fantasy and that he followed her home from school.

妮基有没有看到什么，比如他的车，或者她被关的房间，像莎伦那样？

Did Nikki see anything, like his car or the room that she was in like Sharon did?

看起来她确实看到了，因为她描述了那个地方——无论那里是哪儿——有四个房间，或者至少四个她知道或可能在那五十小时里待过的独立区域。

It seems like she did because she describes this house that or wherever she was as having, like, four rooms or at least four separate areas that she knew about or that maybe she had been in in her fifty hours with him.

所以她描述了一个卧室、一个厨房、一个带厕所的房间，还有一个独立的浴室。

So she describes a bedroom, a kitchen, a room with a toilet, and then a separate bathroom.

但只有这个独立的浴室，我在妮基的叙述中从未详细描述过。

But it's only this separate bathroom that I've ever described in detail from Nikki's account.

实际上，他们最后画了一张这个浴室的草图。

There's actually a sketch that they end up making of this.

我们觉得这是同一个地方吗？

And do we think that this is the same place?

所以事情是这样的。

I so here's the thing.

我不知道警方掌握的所有信息，但他们谈论这个的方式是，把莎伦看到的卧室和他们画下的素描，与妮基看到的浴室和他们画下的素描，当作一个整体来看。

I don't know everything police have, but the way that they talk about this is, like like, they talk about the bedroom that Sharon saw and that they draw a sketch of and then the bathroom that Nikki saw that they take a sketch of as, like, one unit.

好吧。

Okay.

但我明白他们是怎么把线索串联起来的。

But I see how they're, like, connecting the dots.

因为当你综合我们所知道的一切来看，妮基描述的那辆车几乎和莎伦描述的一模一样。

Because when you look at, like, the totality of what we know, Nikki ends up describing almost the exact same car that Sharon described being in.

两人都描述了大致相同的区域，同一个安静的社区，都提到了一条车道。

They both kind of describe the same general area, same quiet neighborhood, both describe a driveway.

最重要的是，两人都描述了头顶上有飞机飞过。

And most importantly, they both end up describing planes flying overhead.

由于妮基在那里待得更久，她提到自己被关押期间听到了七到九架飞机飞过。

Now because Nikki was there longer, she ends up describing hearing between seven and nine of them while she was kept there.

而她所描述的飞机数量和时间线，甚至比他们之前掌握的细节更加具体。

And the number of planes and this timeline that she has is even more specific than the details they had before.

于是警方据此开始绘制墨尔本地区与机场及飞行航线相对应的区域。

So police take this, and they're able to start mapping out the areas in Melbourne that correspond with airports and flight paths.

为了直接告诉你关键细节，他们最终缩小范围，确定妮基听到的一定是图拉马林机场起降的飞机。

And to, like, fast forward to the details and get you the goods, basically, they narrow it down and figure out that what Nikki had to have been hearing were planes coming in or out of Tullamarine Airport.

这个机场距离她被带走的郊区驾车约三十五到四十五分钟，具体取决于交通状况。

This airport is about a thirty five, forty five minute drive depending on traffic from the suburb where she was taken.

因此，妮基在车里度过的那大约四十五分钟，时间上是吻合的。

So those forty five minutes or so that Nikki spent in the car would add up.

是的。

Yeah.

他们甚至将范围缩小到机场着陆的两条特定飞行航线。

And they even pinpoint it down to two specific flight paths of planes that were landing at this airport.

但这两条飞行航线覆盖的区域非常广阔。

But these two flight paths cover a huge area.

所以，是的，他们缩小了范围，但其实也没缩小多少。

So, yes, they narrowed it down, but, like, it doesn't actually narrow it down all that much.

那么，到目前为止，他们有公开所有这些信息吗？

So are they sharing all of this information publicly at this point?

比如他们正在调查的区域，还有房间、浴室的样子？

Like, what area they're looking at, what the room, the bathroom look like?

没有。

No.

不是马上公开。

Not right away.

我的意思是，他们最终还是告诉公众，有一个连环掠食者在针对年轻女孩，这时他们才鼓励人们采取额外的安全措施来保护自己的家人。

I mean, they do finally tell the public that there is a serial predator targeting young girls, and that's when they encourage people to take extra safety measures to protect their own families.

但他们没有公布房间的描述，我相信他们把这当作保留信息，以保护调查。

But they do not share the descriptions of the rooms, which I'm sure they're looking at as, holdback information to protect the investigation.

嗯，确实。

Well, yeah.

而且我觉得，一旦这事公开了，肯定有人会重新装修。

And, like, I think, like, once this gets out, someone's gonna be doing some redecorating.

是的。

Well, yeah.

一方面，你有这个家伙。

Like like, on one hand, you got this guy.

你不想让他搬家、重新装修，或者意识到你们正在逼近他。

You don't want him moving or redecorating or realizing, like, that you're narrowing in.

但与此同时，公众可能是你最大的资源。

But at the same time, the public could be your biggest resource.

你认得这栋房子吗？

Like, do you recognize this house?

你认得这些家具吗？

Do you recognize this furniture?

尤其是

Especially

还有那些全是桃色系的配套家具。

with all that, like, peach matchy matchy furniture.

我不知道。

Like, I don't know.

我不确定，如果他们当初换种方式处理，采取不同的策略，事情会不会有不同的发展。

I don't know how differently things would have gone if they would have, like, approached this differently, taken a different tactic.

但他们当时选择对此保密。

But they chose to keep that to themselves at the time.

不过我在想，他们后来是否后悔了这个决定，因为没人真以为那个疯子会就此收手。

Though I wonder if they came to regret that decision because I don't think anyone was under the illusion that this maniac was gonna stop.

他们假设他还会再次作案。

They assumed that he would strike again.

只是不知道他会在什么时候、什么地方下手。

They just didn't know when or where.

喜欢听《犯罪 Junkie》吗？希望你们能把这些调查做成电影上映？

Love listening to crime junkie and wish you could put these investigations on the big screen?

我们有个令人兴奋的消息。

We've got exciting news.

《犯罪 Junkie》现在已在 Tubi 平台上线播出。

Crime Junkie is now streaming on Tubi.

没错。

That's right.

你可以通过一种全新的方式，和 Ashley 与 Brit 一起体验那些让你念念不忘的故事。

You can experience the stories you can't stop thinking about alongside Ashley and Brit in a whole new way.

依然是深入的调查、难忘的案件和原创的报道。

It's the same deep dives, the same unforgettable cases, and the same original reporting.

现在已在 Tubi 平台播出。

Now streaming on Tubi.

1990 年剩下的时间里，没有其他案件与克鲁尔先生联系起来。

The rest of 1990 passed without another case being linked to Mr.

克鲁尔。

Cruel.

所以，如果有些人开始放松警惕，也不足为奇。

So it wouldn't be surprising if some people had begun to let their guards down.

也许他因为别的事情入狱了。

Maybe he was in prison for something else.

也许他已经去世或搬走了。

Maybe he died or moved away.

但就在墨尔本可能再次感到安全时，1991年4月13日，13岁的卡门·陈遭到袭击，所有人都知道，残酷先生依然在逃，而且比以往更加危险。

But just when Melbourne might have been feeling safe again, on 04/13/1991, the attack on 13 year old Carmen Chen happened, and everyone knew that mister Cruel was still out there, and he was more dangerous than ever.

当袭击者戴着面具、手持刀具闯入她家时，她正在照看两个年幼的妹妹，而她的父母正在附近他们经营的餐厅工作。

When the attacker broke into her house wearing a mask and wielding a knife, she was babysitting her two little sisters while her parents worked at the restaurant that they own nearby.

袭击者把卡门的两个妹妹逼进壁橱，然后带走了卡门。

The attacker forced Carmen's two younger sisters into a cupboard and took Carmen.

但当他一离开，其中一个女孩就打电话通知了父母，父亲立刻赶回家并报了警。

But as soon as he left, one of the girls called their parents and their dad rushed back to the house and called police.

我不得不想象，即使在警方到达现场之前，调查人员就已经开始推测他们面对的是怎样的人，以及该如何救回卡门。

And I have to imagine that even before they arrive on the scene, investigators are already making assumptions about who they're dealing with and how they're gonna get Carmen back.

任何形式的赎金要求都绝对不可能。

Any kind of ransom is most certainly out of the question.

我的意思是，残忍先生留给尼基姐姐的赎金要求完全是假的。

I mean, the ransom demand that Mr.

但他在这里留下的信息甚至没有提出任何要求。

Cruel left with Nikki's sister was totally fake, but the message he left here doesn't even have an ask.

用喷漆涂鸦在家庭汽车上的字样是：报复、未完待续、以及亚洲毒品交易。

Spray painted in graffiti on the family's car are the words payback, more to come, and Asian drug deal.

现在他们必须调查此事，但几乎要同时进行两项调查：一项假设这只是残忍先生试图误导他们的另一种手段。

Now they have to look into this, but they have to almost run that in parallel with an investigation that assumes this is just another form of Mr.

事后看来这似乎就是事实，因为该家庭坚称他们完全不明白这条信息的意思。

Cruel trying to, like, throw them off his tracks, which in hindsight seems to be the case because the family insists they have no idea what this message means.

而当警方深入调查他们时，发现他们背景清白无瑕。

And when police dig into them, they are squeaky clean.

有趣的是，在这起案件中，残忍先生……

And interestingly, in this, like, Mr.

Cruel的线索中，警方发现Carmen实际上和Nikki Linus上过同一所学校，名叫长老会女子学院。

Cruel path, what police realize is that Carmen actually went to the same school as Nikki Linus, a place called Presbyterian Ladies College.

这是一所女子私立学校。

It was a private school for girls.

因此，人们开始猜测，Mr. Cruel是否曾跟踪这些女孩放学回家？

So people are speculating, like, did Mr.

Cruel是否跟踪这些女孩放学回家？

Cruel follow follow these girls home from school?

这正是Mr. Cruel告诉Nikki的内容。

Which is what mister Cruel told Nikki.

对。

Right.

或者更可怕的想法是，他是不是学校里的人？

Or even scarier is this thought, like, is he someone who works at the school?

因此，所有人都在期盼Carmen的归来，而警方则在幕后展开调查。

So everyone is hoping and waiting for Carmen's return while police are, like, working in the background.

我认为应该仔细调查他们的学校，但警方的调查细节却非常有限。

I would think looking closely at their school, but the details of their investigation are scant.

莎伦花了十八个小时才回来，妮基则花了五十个小时。

It was eighteen hours for Sharon to come back, fifty hours for Nikki.

他们不知道即将面对什么，但会不惜一切代价把卡门找回来。

They don't know what they're in for, but they will do anything to bring Carmen back.

于是她的父母接受了电视采访，她母亲菲莉丝在镜头前泣不成声，恳求女儿回家。

So her parents actually do a TV interview where her mother Phyllis is sobbing on camera pleading for their daughter to come back.

这简直令人心碎，但我希望你们能听一听她的恳求。

It is absolutely heartbreaking, but I need you guys to hear her please.

请把我的女儿带回家吧，我们全家都非常爱她，两个姐妹都睡不着，非常难过。

Please bring my daughter come and back to home because all my family love her very much and the two sisters couldn't sleep and very upset.

卡门，你最喜欢的在这里，快回来，把衣服穿上。

Your favorite just here, Carmen, come back and dress it.

求求你，我的女儿。

Please please my daughter.

卡门的小妹妹们甚至给绑架者写了公开信，恳求她回家。

Carmen's little sisters even write public letters to the kidnapper begging for her return.

但五十个小时过去了，接着是几百个小时。

But fifty hours pass and then hundreds.

在数周的时间里，家人开始写下更多公开信，写给克鲁尔先生。

And over the course of weeks, the family starts writing even more open letters to Mr.

恳求他把卡门送回家。

Cruel begging him to bring Carmen home.

每一封信，我都告诉你，布里特，都令人心碎。

And every single letter, I'm telling you, Brit, they are heartbreaking.

有些信中，他们试图与这个男人讲道理。

In some, they try to reason with this guy.

比如，放了其他人吧。

Like, you release the others.

求你了，就放了我们的女儿吧。

Please just release our girl.

她们试图唤起他可能尚存的善念，告诉他她的妹妹们如何在夜间梦游，呼唤她的名字，在深夜的各个时刻醒来望向窗外，期盼她能像其他女孩那样朝家走来。

They tried to appeal to some kind of him that might be good, telling him how her sisters are sleepwalking at night, calling out her name, and waking up at all hours of the night looking out the window hoping that she's gonna come walking toward the house like the other girls did.

而妹妹们写的这些信中，有些恰恰展现了她们的年龄，以及她们多么渴望姐姐能回家。

And some of these letters that her sisters write just like show you their age and like how much they're like hoping their sister is gonna come home.

我这里正好有一封她妹妹凯伦写的信。

I actually have one right here from her sister, Karen.

信上写着：我时常想念你。

It says, I miss you a lot of time.

我在黑暗中非常害怕，爸爸妈妈也非常想念你。

I am very scared in the dark and mom and dad miss you very much.

咪咪生病了。

Mimi is sick.

咪咪是他们家的狗。

Mimi was their dog.

咪咪生病了，因为它也太想你了。

Mimi is sick because she misses you too.

来自凯伦的爱。

Love from Karen.

在其他信中，他们试图讨价还价。

In other letters, they try to bargain.

他们甚至曾一度给他一个邮政信箱的地址。

They, like, even at one point give him instructions to a PO box.

而这些信息似乎是某种只有卡门才懂的暗号。

And this is, like, in apparently code that they say only Carmen would know.

但随着时间推移，这些信件逐渐变成了绝望的恳求。

But as time goes on, the letters just become desperate pleas.

我的意思是，有一封信里，卡门的母亲提出用自己的生命来换女儿的安全。

I mean, in one Carmen's mom offers to exchange her own life for her daughters.

我可以想象，警方一直试图安抚这个家庭，告诉他们克鲁尔先生会像往常一样把女儿送回来。

And I would imagine that all along, police are trying to reassure this family that Mr.

克鲁尔先生会像往常一样把女儿送回来。

Cruel is gonna return their daughter like he always does.

对吧？

Right?

但私下里，我怀疑他们担心这次可能不一样了。

But privately, I suspect that they're worried that this time might be different.

所以他们必须采取不同的方法来找到这个人，并 hopefully 找到卡门。

So they're gonna have to do something different to find this guy and hopefully to find Carmen.

因此，在卡门失踪后刚过两个多星期，警方成立了一个特别工作组，命名为‘光谱行动’。

So a little more than two weeks after Carmen's disappearance, police create a task force dubbing it Operation Spectrum.

他们制作了包含卡门、妮基和莎伦照片的海报，并在维多利亚州（墨尔本所在地）的所有警察局分发。

Posters are created featuring the face of Carmen and Nikki and Sharon, and they're distributed at every police station in Victoria where Melbourne is located.

他们向公众广泛征集线索，还发动了大规模的信件派发活动，动员了5000名志愿者在全区分发宣传册。

And they make mass appeals to the public for tips, and they also do this huge letter dropping campaign mobilizing 5,000 volunteers to distribute brochures all around the area.

我想请你暂停一下，想象一下这个场景。

And I want you to just, like, pause for a second to visualize that.

想象一下，一支庞大的队伍走遍整个大都会区，远至新南威尔士州和南澳大利亚州，派发了超过一百万份传单，挨家挨户与邻居交谈，竭尽全力提高人们对这个女孩的关注。

Like, this is an army of people going all around the metro area, all the way to New South Wales and South Australia dropping more than a million pamphlets, talking to neighbors, doing everything they can to raise awareness about this girl.

到这个时候，媒体已经彻底沸腾，这个案件在全国各地的报纸上都登上了头条。

And by this point, the media is in an absolute frenzy, and this case is making newspaper headlines all over the country.

为了让你有个概念，这是九十年代，那时有线新闻24小时不间断报道失踪女性还并非常态。

And to put it into perspective, like, this is in the nineties before nonstop coverage of missing women on cable news was kind of the norm.

即使到了今天，几十年过去了，人们仍然记得，那段时间住在墨尔本是多么可怕。

Even now, decades later, people remember that this time was so scary to live in Melbourne.

我看过一些关于这个案件的Reddit帖子，有一个人提到他们的体育课被取消了。

I was looking at, like, Reddit threads about this, and one person posted about how their gym class was canceled.

在四周的时间里，警察代替他们上了自卫课程。

And for four weeks, the police taught them self defense lessons instead.

另一个人说，你根本不可能走出家门而不看到卡门的脸贴得到处都是——火车、广告牌、公交站。

Another person said that you couldn't even leave the house without seeing Carmen's face plastered everywhere, trains, billboards, bus stations.

第三个评论者记得，突然之间，所有人都被父母接回家，而不是自己走路回家。

And a third commenter remembers how suddenly everyone was getting picked up from school by their parents instead of walking home.

当他们在家时，我敢肯定，被志愿者敲门或看到警犬和直升机巡逻并不罕见，因为警方估计已经敲响了三万扇门。

And when they were home, I'm sure it wasn't unusual to get a knock at their door from a volunteer or to see sniffer dogs and helicopters patrolling because police were estimated to have knocked on 30,000 doors.

但到这个时候，他们仍然没有告诉公众他们掌握了这所房子内部的描述。

But at this point, they're still not telling people that they have a description of what the house looks like inside.

嗯嗯。

Mm-mm.

但他们重点在墨尔本机场附近那片区域进行挨家挨户排查，因为他们认为这个男人就住在那里，或者把女孩们关在那里。

But they were focusing their door knocking heavily on that part of Melbourne near the airport that they had honed in on, where they think that this guy lives or where he's keeping the girls.

而且现在他们似乎特别不愿意公布内部细节。

And it's almost like now they're especially not gonna release the interior stuff.

那样做会更加危险。

Like, it would be extra dangerous to do that.

或者至少，这似乎是他们在早期从联邦调查局得到的建议。

Or at least that seems to be the line of advice that they were getting from the FBI early on.

因为他们实际上曾咨询过联邦调查局，希望获得一份犯罪侧写，而这份侧写正好在大规模排查前出炉。

Because they actually consulted them for a profile which came back right before this canvas.

甚至在侧写报告中，联邦调查局也说：你们除非万不得已，否则不要公开这个侧写，因为你们的目标是让凶手释放卡门。

And even in the profile, the FBI is like, look, you don't wanna go out with this profile unless you have to because your goal is to get him to release Carmen.

所以如果他觉得自己被逼入绝境，无法释放她，可能会采取极端行动。

So if he feels like he's backed into a corner and he can't release her, he might do something drastic.

所以先别急。

So hold the beat.

如果几天后她还是没回来，你就应该采取更主动的方式，拿出这个信息去行动。

And if in a couple of days she's still not back, then you should use a more proactive approach and go out with this.

他们对房子也是这么说的。

And they say the same for the house.

他们不希望这个人移动，对吧？或者像你所说的，重新装修什么的。

They don't want this guy to move, right, or to your point, like redecorate or whatever.

但问题是，不知为何，他们很长时间都没有对外公布任何信息。

But the thing is for some reason, they don't go out with anything for a long while.

看起来他们只是内部使用这个画像，以及照片之类的材料，来缩小潜在嫌疑人的范围。

It seems like they just use this profile and, like, the pictures and stuff internally to hone their potential list of suspects.

我想详细聊聊这个画像，因为我觉得它非常有趣。

And I wanna go over the profile because I think it's really interesting.

在我看到的这份档案中，日期是1991年4月24日，他们认为凶手住在第一次袭击发生的区域附近，也就是洛珀普莱恩郊区。

Now in the profile that I saw, it was dated 04/24/1991, And they say that they believe the offender lives in the same area where the first attack occurred, and that's near the suburb of Lower Plenty.

他们之所以这么认为，是因为卡门家住的地方也离那个区域不远。

And they think this because where Carmen's family lived is, I guess, close to that area too.

而且他们认为这个家伙是所谓的‘返回者’。

And they think that this guy was, quote, unquote, returning.

当他们看到这种情况时，称之为‘聚集’，这通常表明该地区对这名凶手具有某种特殊意义。

And when they see that, they call it clustering, and it usually indicates that that area holds some kind of significance for this offender.

正如我所说，他要么住在那里，要么他们认为他可能在附近工作。

Like I said, he either lives there or they say there's a potential that he is employed near there.

现在他们指出的另一点是，他们认为凶手很可能与学校有关，这很合理。

Now the other thing they point out is they think there is a high probability that the offender is involved with a school, which makes sense.

三次袭击都发生在学校假期期间，或正好临近学期结束的时候，是的，这一点我之前没提。

Three of the attacks occurred either during school holidays or just around the time that school was supposed to end, yeah, which I didn't mention.

莎伦的案子正好发生在圣诞节前后。

Sharon was right around Christmas.

妮基的案件正好发生在冬季假期开始时，而卡门是在学校假期刚开始时被绑架的。

Nikki was right at the beginning of winter break, and Carmen was abducted right after a school break began.

而且他们似乎对校服有着特别的关注。

And there also seems to be this preoccupation with school uniforms.

对吧？

Right?

妮基和卡门上的是同一所学校。

And both Nikki and Carmen went to the same school.

这一点我们也很清楚。

We know that as well.

现在他们还指出，这名罪犯很可能对儿童有强烈的兴趣，尤其是他袭击的年龄段的孩子。

Now another thing that they say is that this offender is someone who would probably have an intense interest in children, especially within the age range that he's assaulting.

他们说，当人们注意到他或与他互动时，他可能表现得像一个充满奉献精神的人，甚至可能获得过奖项或认可，比如年度教练、年度教师之类的。

Now they say that like when people notice him or like interact with him, this may come off as just like a dedication that has maybe even won him awards or recognition, coach of the year, teacher of the year, something like that.

他们还说，他曾经拍摄或拍摄过袭击过程，并且仍然保留着这些证据。

They also say that he will have filmed or photographed his assault and still has the proof of that.

除非他认为执法部门已经知道了这些物品，否则他很可能会保留它们。

He likely will keep that stuff unless he thinks law enforcement knows about them.

因此，他们特别建议不要大声说出这部分内容，因为如果抓到这个家伙，这些信息将是极其重要的证据，他们不希望因此促使他销毁证据。

So they specifically recommend not saying this part out loud because this would be highly valuable evidence if they ever catch this guy, and they don't want to, like, prompt him to destroy it.

现在他们认为，这名罪犯非常能干，很可能很有礼貌。

Now they say that they think this offender is highly functional, most likely polite.

这人是个好邻居。

This guy's a good neighbor.

他很可能有一份稳定的工作，看起来正常，不会引起周围人的怀疑。

He's probably got a steady job, and he's someone that's gonna appear normal and above suspicion to those around him.

接着，他们列出了你可能会期待的一些具体特征。

Then they go on to list some of the specifics that you would expect.

对吧？

Right?

比如，他身边的人可能在这些事件发生后注意到了他的行为变化。

Like, people close to him may have noticed a change in behavior right after these incidents.

比如，他可能在那之后旷工了。

Like, he may have missed work right after.

所以看看这些画像特征，谁符合这些描述？

So looking at these profile points, like, who does that fit?

对吧？

Right?

鉴于投入了这么多资源调查这些案件，他们现在应该已经有所发现了。

Like, with this level of resource being thrown at these cases, like, they had to have turned up something by now.

我的意思是，是的，他们每天都在处理成千上万条来自公众的线索。

I mean, yeah, they're fielding, like, literally thousands of tips from the public.

后来我们从媒体得知，‘光谱行动’已导致73人被捕，但一家地方报纸称这些是附带性逮捕。

And at some point, we learned from the media that Operation Spectrum has led to the arrest of, like, 73 people, but a local paper calls these ancillary arrests.

这些人被指控的罪名包括儿童性虐待材料、勒索、敲诈，但重要的是，没有涉及绑架和袭击。

Like, they're being charged with things like child sexual abuse material, blackmail, extortion, but importantly, not for kidnapping and assault.

换句话说，在这73名被捕者中，那位

In other words, of these 73 people they arrested, Mr.

克鲁尔先生不在其中，或者他们无法证明克鲁尔先生是其中之一。

Cruel is not one of them, or they can't prove that Mr.

克鲁尔先生是其中之一。

Cruel is one of them.

根据当时的媒体报道，他们仍有大约30名不同的嫌疑人无法排除。

And according to media reports at the time, they still have about 30 different suspects that can't be ruled out.

首席调查员大卫·斯普罗格向媒体转述道，引用原话：'在维多利亚警察局的二十五年里，他从未试图追踪过如此冷静、精于算计且拥有如此广泛法医学知识的罪犯'，引文结束。

Lead inspector David Sprog relayed to the media that, quote, in twenty five years with the Victoria Police, he had never tried to track a cooler, more calculating criminal with such an extensive knowledge of forensic science, end quote.

意思是，他们没找到任何物证？

Meaning, they haven't gotten any physical evidence?

嗯，我是说，这么多年后我才知道他们确实处理了从车里找到的一些物证，就是那位先生……

Well, I mean, I know all these years later that they did process some physical evidence from the car that Mr.

克鲁尔曾短暂地从莱纳斯家偷过东西。

Cruel briefly stole from the Linus family.

对吧？

Right?

我们知道他们只在里面待了一会儿。

We know they were in there for just a little bit.

根据这位名叫大卫·威尔斯的人的说法，他当时是维多利亚警察局的法医，最近才公开表示，他发现了一些法医证据。

According to this guy, David Wells, who was a forensic physician with the Victoria Police back then, and he just recently came out and said this, he says he found some forensic evidence.

我不知道那是什么证据，也不知道他们持有这些证据多久了，但我知道当时他们对此事一字未提。

Now I don't know what that is or how long they've had it, but I know that they weren't saying anything about this at the time.

我的意思是，我们谈论的是八十年代末、九十年代初。

I mean and really, we're talking about, like, late eighties, early nineties.

那时候，你能用这些证据做的非常有限，除了直接比对之外，几乎没什么别的办法。

There wasn't much you could do with something that you had any I mean, aside from, like, direct comparison.

所以他们现在专注的就是这一点。

So that's what they're focused on.

他们的注意力依然集中在寻找克鲁尔先生上。

Their focus remains on finding Mr.

以及寻找卡门。

Cruel and looking for Carmen.

但结果发现，她竟是被完全偶然地找到了。

But it turns out that she would end up being found just by complete accident.

就在她失踪一周年的前几天，一名当地居民在电力变电站附近遛狗时发现了一具人类头骨，并通知了当局。

Just days before the first anniversary of her disappearance, a local alerts authorities to this human skull that he found while walking his dog near an electrical substation.

这是你第二次提到电力变电站了。

That's the second time you've mentioned electrical substation.

我想我其实不太清楚那是什么。

I guess I don't really know what that is.

哦，那些就是你看到的一堆电力设备的区域，比如变压器和被围起来的电线。

Oh, so those are those areas, like, where you see, like, a bunch of electric equipment, like transformers and power lines surrounded.

通常，它们会被围栏之类的围起来。

Usually, they're, like, surrounded by a fence or whatever.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，这又不是什么办公楼，也不是有人值守的地方。

And, like, this isn't like a office building or they're not manned

它们通常是带门禁和围栏的，

by They're, like, gated and fenced and,

比如在道路的对面。

like, across

在道路的另一侧。

the side of the road.

它们就是那种你根本不会注意的东西，说实话，我平时从不留意它们。

They're the thing you never really like, honestly, I don't pay attention to them.

对我们大多数人来说，电就好像自动出现在家里一样。

Like, for most of us, electricity just shows up at our house.

我们从不问为什么。

We, don't ask questions.

所以，总之，她是被发现靠近这个区域的。

So, anyways, she's found near this area.

当警察赶来搜查时，他们发现的遗骸不止是头骨。

And when police come out and do a search, they find even more remains beyond just the skull.

经过一些比对后，警方最终确认了这就是陈卡门。

And after some comparisons, it is determined that police have finally located Carmen Chen.

我的意思是，如果他们找到的遗骸已经只剩下骨骼，那她一定在那里待了相当长一段时间。

And, I mean, she had to have been out there for a while if the remains they found were just skeletal.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是令人心碎的地方。

And this is the heartbreaking thing.

法医认为，她在那里已经待了长达一年之久。

The forensic physician believes that she had been there for up to a year.

所以基本上，就在

So basically, like the

所有人一直在寻找她的整个期间。

entire time everyone was looking for her.

对。

Yeah.

他们能确定她是如何死亡的吗？

Can they tell it all how she died?

是的。

Yeah.

她头部被近距离连开三枪，属于处决式枪杀。

She was shot in the head three times execution style.

我看出了你的表情。

I I see your face.

说实话，我也很震惊。

Like, I was shocked as well.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我来说是个巨大的惊喜，因为就我所了解的这个案件以及其他类似案件而言，这似乎与我们对克鲁尔先生的了解不符。

This is a huge I feel like surprise to me because, like, at least, like, when I'm looking at this case and, like, what I know of other cases, this doesn't seem to be in line with what we know about Mr.

以及他对待所谓受害者的做法。

Cruel and how he treated his alleged victims.

这可是新情况。

Like, this is new.

而且我觉得，在很多儿童绑架案中，最终结果并不会像这样。

Well and I also feel like we don't see this in a lot of child abduction cases that end this way.

我没有具体数据支持，但我觉得，当孩子遭遇这种情况时，通常更可能是钝器击打或勒死，而不是这种处决式的枪击。

Like, I don't have any stats to back this up, but I feel like when this happens to a child, it's a lot closer, like blunt force trauma or strangulation, like execution style shooting.

对。

Right.

我明白你说的意思，我觉得当谋杀并非预谋，而是在其他行为中意外发生，或者事情失控时，才会出现那种情况。

I like, I what you're talking about, I think you see that when the murder wasn't intentional, but they were killed, like, during another act or because things spun out of control.

这明显是经过计划的。

This definitely seemed planned.

也许在绑架她的时候还没计划好，但这次枪击是蓄意的。

Like, maybe not planned when he abducted her, but, like, this was intentional.

对吧？

Right?

当人们讨论这件事时，主要的推测是，卡门可能看到了她不该看到的东西，比如克鲁尔先生的脸。

And the leading theory when when people talk about this is that maybe Carmen saw something she wasn't supposed to, like Mr.

她可能看到了克鲁尔先生的脸。

Cruel's face.

也许她反抗了。

Maybe she fought back.

也许她扯掉了眼罩或他的面具。

Maybe she removed the blindfold or his mask.

我的意思是，也许她认出了他。

I mean, maybe she recognized him.

这对我来说是最合理的解释。

That is what would make sense to me.

我猜他们一定调查过她学校里的人。

And I assume they had to have looked at people at her school.

我的意思是，他们当时就是按照这个轮廓在排查。

I mean, it was the profile that they were kind of going with.

对吧？

Right?

他们调查了杜阿。

They had Dua.

但再说一遍，我不清楚调查的具体细节，也不清楚他们调查了哪些人或哪些学校，但也许这个画像本身是错的。

But, again, I don't know the specifics of the investigation or who they looked at or what schools, but also maybe the profile was wrong.

因为关键是这样。

Because here's the thing.

即使他们最终找到了卡门，即使他们以为自己知道要找的是什么样的人，这也不会改变案件的现状。

Even though they end up finding Carmen, even though they think they know the type of person that they're looking for, it does not change the state of the case ever.

我的意思是，他们当然一直在继续调查。

I mean, they keep working it, of course.

到了1992年，他们确实向布鲁斯·托宾——当时一家日报的记者——公布了一些来自FBI画像的信息。

And in 1992, they do end up releasing some information from the FBI profile to Bruce Tobin at the age, this, like, daily paper.

我不知道FBI的画像是否更新过，但这篇报道包含的信息比前一年的官方报告还要多。

And I don't know if the FBI profile was updated or what, but this article includes even more information than the official report from the year prior.

而在这次描述中，他们说他们认为

And in this one, they say that they think Mr.

残忍先生可能有洁癖，有一份稳定的工作，并且，引用原话，'富有创造力且视觉导向'。

Cruel would be obsessed with cleanliness, that he had a steady job, and that he is, quote, creative and visually oriented.

但当这些线索未能指向嫌疑人时，他们最终才在1993年

But when that doesn't lead to their man, that's when they finally release the illustrations of Mr.

公布了残忍先生卧室和浴室的示意图。

Cruel's bedroom and bathroom in 1993.

他们说在一天之内，他们就接到了超过400个电话，这导致了更多的访谈和更多的核查。是的。

And they say within a day, they get over 400 calls, which result in even more interviews and even more checks Yeah.

但仍然没有逮捕任何人。

But still no arrests.

由于没有逮捕或进一步的绑架案，随着时间的推移，成本和资源最终变得过高，无法再为专案组提供正当理由。

And without that or any more kidnappings, over time, the costs and resources eventually just get too high to justify the task force anymore.

所以它最终被解散了。

So it ends up getting disbanded.

而残忍先生的真实身份

And the identity of Mr.

从那时起就一直是个谜。

Cruel has remained a mystery ever since.

他再也没有犯案吗？

He never attacked again?

没有。

Nope.

或者至少不是以‘残酷先生’的作案手法。

Or at least not with the MO of Mr.

残酷先生。

Cruel.

我的意思是，你觉得他是在卡门之后害怕了，所以停手了吗？

I mean, do you think he got scared after Carmen and stopped?

我不知道该怎么想。

I don't know what to think.

我的意思是，这正是人们至今仍如此痴迷于这个案件的原因，我认为。

I mean, that's the reason that people are still so obsessed with this case, I think.

比如，有些人说，是杀死卡门让他吓坏了，所以他停手了。

Like, some say, yeah, having to kill Carmen spooked him and he stopped.

有些人说这个家伙可能已经死了，也有人说他搬离了墨尔本。

Some people say that this guy's probably dead or some say he moved away from Melbourne.

而所有认为他仍活着的人，都在猜测他是否正藏在某处策划下一次袭击，但没人知道该提防谁，因为人们对这个怪物以及针对他的调查几乎一无所知。

And all of those who think he's still alive wonder if he's out there somewhere plotting his next attack, but no one knows who to look out for because they know almost nothing about this boogeyman or the investigation into him.

一切至今都仍被严密封锁。

Everything has still been so tight lipped.

不过我要说，2016年，也就是卡门·陈失踪25年后，系统里出现了一次泄露。记者基思·摩尔在《先驱太阳报》上发表了一项调查，披露了来自特遣队“光谱行动”的全新信息——这些内容此前从未公开过。

Though I will say, there was a leak in the system come twenty sixteen, Twenty five years after Carmen Chen's disappearance, we get a peek behind the curtain when journalist Keith Moore publishes an investigation in the Herald Sun, revealing brand new information from the task force operation spectrum, the stuff that had never been published before.

你可能已经注意到了。

And you've probably caught on by now.

我多次引用基思的报道，因为他为揭开这个案件的真相做了大量工作。

I referenced Keith's reporting a lot because he did a ton to shed new light on this case.

他的工作揭示了一个名为《西耶拉文件》的档案，这份档案列出了七名嫌疑人，在‘光谱行动’解散二十多年后，执法部门仍无法排除他们的嫌疑。

Well, his work revealed the existence of this dossier called the Sierra Files, which is a list of seven suspects that more than two decades after Operation Spectrum disbanded still could not be ruled out by law enforcement.

尽管《先驱太阳报》获得了这份名单，但维多利亚警察要求他们不要公开嫌疑人的姓名，穆尔同意了这一要求。

Now even though the Harold Sun got their hands on this list, the Victoria Police asked them not to name the suspects publicly, which Moore agreed to.

但他知道这些嫌疑人的名字，于是他去追踪了至少其中一人。

But he knew the names of the suspects, and so he went and tracked at least one of these people down.

结果，这个人向他承认，自己曾因这起案件被审讯了十二个小时，并且他知道前任务组负责人认为，在所有被调查的人中，他是头号嫌疑人。

And lo and behold, this guy ends up admitting to him that he was grilled for twelve hours about the case and that he knows the former task force lead thinks that out of everyone they've looked into, he was their number one suspect.

尽管穆尔在文章中没有透露这个人的姓名，但他提到此人曾是墨尔本大学的讲师。

Now even though Moore doesn't give this guy his name in the article, he does say that this guy was a former Melbourne University lecturer.

根据心理学讲师JH·考特博士的报告，有一位曾任职于墨尔本大学的讲师，他明确指出了此人，同时此人也是性犯罪前科犯。

And per a report by psychology lecturer, doctor JH Court, there was one former Melbourne University lecturer who he does name that is also a convicted sex offender.

让我告诉你一些关于这个人的事，有些人正在试图将他与这起案件联系起来。

So let me tell you a little bit about this guy who some people are, like, drawing, like, links to.

从1972年到1974年，这个人袭击了六名不同的年轻女性和女孩。

Between 1972 to 1974, this guy attacked six different young women and girls.

他以捆绑受害者、用刀威胁后再实施侵害而闻名。

He was known for tying his victims up, threatening them with a knife before assaulting them.

他至少对一起强奸罪认罪，并因此被判处十年监禁。

He pled guilty to at least one rape charge and was sentenced to ten years for his crimes.

所以在‘Cruel先生’的残忍袭击开始时，他已经出狱了。

So he was out by the time that the Mr.

但他从未因‘Cruel先生’的罪行被起诉。

Cruel attacks started happening, but he was never charged in connection with the crimes of Mr.

Cruel。

Cruel.

基思·摩尔所采访的那位匿名男子，他究竟是同一个人，还是另一个人？

And the unnamed man interviewed by Keith Moore, should he be the same man or a different one?

我不知道。

I don't know.

那个人否认自己与这些案件有任何关联。

That guy denies any involvement in the cases.

嗯，我假设如果是他，或者哪怕是这个无名男子，我们早就该知道了。

Well, I assume if it were him or even whoever this unnamed guy is, we would know.

我的意思是，如果他们有DNA，就像你提到的，现在肯定已经比对过了。

Like, if they have DNA, like you mentioned, they had to have compared it by now.

对吧？

Right?

老兄，这部分真的让我特别困惑。

Dude, so this is the part that is so confusing to me.

所以当我之前说最近才曝光时，其实直到2025年8月，我们才第一次听说这些案件中可能存在法医证据，或者至少其中一桩案件有。

So when I said it came out recently, it wasn't until August 2025 that we ever even heard there was potentially forensic evidence in these cases or one of the cases.

就像我说的，这些信息来自大卫·威尔斯，他是当年袭击发生时维多利亚警察局的法医医生。

So like I said, this comes from David Wells, was a forensic physician with Victoria Police back when the attacks were happening.

他最近在《犯罪内幕》播客中告诉主持人，他亲自收集了关键的遗传证据，但当时需要有人来比对。

And he just went on Crime Insider's podcast and told the host that he had personally collected crucial genetic evidence, but they needed someone to compare it to.

对我来说，这七个人还没被排除似乎很奇怪

Now to me, it seems like those seven people who haven't been ruled

你有一份七个人的名单

out You've got a list of seven people

从这开始。

to start with.

从这里开始。

To start.

对。

Right.

我真的不明白。

Like, so so I don't get it.

除非我能想到的唯一可能性是——但愿别是——他们弄丢了证据，对吧？

Unless the one of the only things I can think of is, like, god forbid, they lost it Right.

这就能解释为什么这件事一直如此保密。

Which would explain a lot of the hush-hush silence around this.

根本没人知道最初有过证据。

Not known that there was ever evidence to begin with.

但希望情况不是这样。

But, like, praying that's not the case.

我想到的另一个可能是，他们可能从收集到的证据中提取了某种特征画像，然后拿去和一些人进行比对。

The other option I was thinking about was, they could have maybe gotten some kind of profile from whatever was collected and maybe they tested that against people.

但这个画像可能只是来自某一个案件。

But maybe this profile is just from like one case.

对吧？

Right?

而这些人并不匹配这个单一的画像，所以他们还在保持其他可能性，比如可能存在多个作案者，或者仅仅因为你在这起案件中被排除了，并不意味着你在所有案件中都被排除了——我不知道。

And the people don't match that one profile and they're like keeping their options open that like there there is more than one offender or like just because you're ruled out in this one doesn't mean you're ruled out in all of I don't know.

这真的是我自从深入研究这件事以来，反复思考、反复琢磨过很多遍的问题。

This is, this is something that I've, like, just gone round and round, like, thought a ton since I've been deep in this.

当你说到可能不是同一个人，也就是多个作案者，但作案手法却完全一致。

When you say it might not be the same person, that's, like, multiple people, but the MOs are exactly the same.

我的意思是，当你说到‘完全一致’，我觉得对于莎伦和妮基来说，确实是完全一样的。

I mean, when you say exactly, they're exactly the same, I think, for Sharon and Nikki.

但你听我说完。

But I mean, hear me out.

2016年，基思·摩尔发表了关于伊莉莎案件的报告，也就是我们的第一位受害者。

So in 2016, Keith Moore published that Eliza's case, our very first victim.

她和她的家人描述那位先生。

She and her family described Mr.

残忍者身材偏瘦到中等。

Cruel as having a slim to medium build.

他们说，他的说话方式让他听起来像是没受过什么教育。

And they say that the way that he spoke made him sound, they say, uneducated.

在莎伦的案件中，我们的第二位受害者，他们描述的是一名身材瘦削到中等、言谈得体的男子。

In Sharon's case, our second victim, they describe a guy who has a thin to medium build, well spoken.

而在妮基的案件中，他们说这个男人有啤酒肚，说话听起来‘不太有文化’。

Now in Nikki's case, they said this guy had a beer belly and he sounded, quote, not really educated.

所以，这就是我开始深入探索的地方，跟我一起往下看吧。

So here's what I started like, come down the rabbit hole with me.

你准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

那如果这些是两三个不同的家伙在互相交流信息呢？

So what if these are, like, two to three different guys sharing notes.

我的意思是，这一切都是有关联的，但并不是只有一个‘残酷先生’。

Like, it is all connected, but it is not just one Mr.

残酷先生。

Cruel.

我的意思是，这听起来太离谱了。

I mean, that seems so far fetched.

你是说，在一个恋童癖者拥有一个协调网络的世界里，这个网络渗透到了社会的各个阶层？

You mean a world where pedophiles have one coordinated network and that ripples through, like, all echelons of society?

那还能是什么？

Like, what else?

我的意思是，

I mean,

请纠正我。

stand corrected.

听好了。

And listen.

我并不是因为我们现在处于后爱泼斯坦文件时代才这么推测的。

I'm not just reaching because we're in, like, a post Epstein files world.

我想让你看看我找到的这篇刊登在1992年6月7日《年龄报》头版的文章。

I want you to see this article that I found on the front page of the age dated 06/07/1992.

这距离卡门遗体被发现才过去了几个月。

This is just a couple of months out from when Carmen's remains were discovered.

哦，这是头版吗？

Oh, this is a front page?

这是头版。

This is the front page.

这里最大的标题是：‘儿童色情的秘密社团’。

The biggest headline here is, quote, child porn's secret society.

老兄，我真是……我不知道该怎么说了。

Dude, I I went, like, I can't okay.

让我跟你讲讲这件事。

So let me just tell you about it.

是的。

Yeah.

我们是怎么走到这一步的？

Like, how did we get here?

记者卡罗琳·威尔逊，我本来想说她潜入了这个团体，但其实也没那么深奥。

Journalist Caroline Wilson I was gonna say she infiltrated this group, but it's, like, not even that deep.

这个女人只是直接出现在一个基本上是恋童癖俱乐部的地方去报道它。

This this woman just shows up to this basically pedophile club to report on it.

她发现这个团体每周五在墨尔本聚会，而且他们有一套统一的着装。

She found that this group met every Friday in Melbourne, and they had this sort of uniform.

他们都戴着面罩出现。

They all show up wearing balaclavas.

不。

No.

我不是。

I not.

听好了。

And listen.

尽管这些客人声称他们的行为完全正常且可以接受，但所有参与者都是男性，而且他们还遮住了脸。

The guests are all men, though they hide their faces even though they say that what they're doing is totally normal and okay.

而且他们毫不避讳地公开自己在正常社会中所担任的角色和身份。

And they're, like, open about the roles and positions that they hold all within, like, polite society.

比如，威尔逊写道：‘在那个特定的夜晚，参与者包括一名心理学家、一名公关人员、一名电信技术员，以及两名刚被裁员的汽车厂工人——在美国，我们称之为被解雇。’

Like, Wilson writes, quote, on this particular night, they include a psychologist, a publicist, a telecom technician, and two car factory workers recently retrenched, which we would refer to in The US as, like, laid off.

至少还有三人曾是童子军领队。

At least three others are former scout leaders, end quote.

随后，她在文章中还提到了其他一些人，比如一名慈善机构官员，并称这个团体成员超过一百人。

And then she goes on to mention others throughout the piece, like a charity official, and she says that the group has more than a 100 members.

现在，并不是每个人去那里都是出于同样的原因。

Now not every person is there for the same reasons.

她说，其中一些人是去寻找与成年同性之间的性接触。

Some of these people, she says, are there looking for same sex encounters with other adults.

但她说，今晚的客人中有一些是恋童癖者和儿童性犯罪者。

But, quote, among tonight's guests are a number of pedophiles and child sex offenders.

有一对男性伴侣正因绑架一名八岁女孩并拍摄她蒙眼的过程而面临警方指控。

One male couple are facing police charges for kidnapping an eight year old girl and filming her blindfolded, end quote.

而在派对上，他们显然在交换未成年人的姓名和儿童性虐待材料。

And at this party, they're apparently exchanging notes and names of minors and child sexual abuse material.

我的意思是，如果这是头版新闻，警方显然不可能不知道。

I mean, if this is front page news, clearly, the police had to have been aware of it.

他们确实知道。

They they were.

但威尔逊说，他们阻止这些活动的行动只是触及了表面，而这一切远比表面所见要深得多，这并不令人意外。

But Wilson said that their operations to stop this were just, like, scratching the surface of what this surprise, surprise that this is like a this goes deep.

Right?

Right?

And that's because it was so prevalent.

And that's because it was so prevalent.

In her words, quote, wherever there are groups of children, there are pedophiles.

In her words, quote, wherever there are groups of children, there are pedophiles.

And where there are pedophiles, there is likely to be child I I would call it sexual abuse material.

And where there are pedophiles, there is likely to be child I I would call it sexual abuse material.

And she clarifies that even though most people would want to believe that people were, like, making it for themselves, most of the time, they were making this abuse material to sell, distribute, share, trade.

And she clarifies that even though most people would want to believe that people were, like, making it for themselves, most of the time, they were making this abuse material to sell, distribute, share, trade.

And listen.

And listen.

This article is so long.

This article is so long.

It is so informative.

It is so informative.

但这是我关于本集的主要收获。

But here are my big takeaways, like, that relate to this episode.

我有很多更广泛的思考，关于这种现象的普遍性、他们针对儿童的方式，以及我们原本以为能保护孩子的系统，实际上却被用来贩运儿童。

I've got, like, a ton of broader thoughts about the prevalence of this and, like, where they target children and how, like, truly the foundation of the systems that we thought were in place to help kids are actually used to traffic them.

所以请继续关注并保持知情，大家。

So stay tuned and stay informed, people.

在美国，我们大多数人都在呼吁逮捕埃普斯坦文件中列出的儿童施虐者，而那些不这么做的，很可能自己就是施虐者。

Here in The US, most of us are begging for the child abusers listed in the Epstein files to be arrested, and those who aren't are probably abusers themselves.

对吧？

Right?

对我来说，这感觉非常黑白分明。

Like, it feels pretty black and white to me.

但我又懂什么呢？

But what do I know?

我每天都在谈论犯罪，从小就被教育说，性犯罪尤其恶劣。

I just talk about crime all day, every day, and I grew up being told that sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous.

好吧，随便吧。

Like, whatever.

回到本集的要点。

Back to the takeaways for episode.

第一，我知道面罩在本案中扮演了如此重要的角色，这让我觉得很有意思。

Number one, the balaclavas are interesting to me knowing that that plays such a prominent part in this case.

有时候在报道中会提到，在某些案件中用的是滑雪面罩，而不是面罩。

Now sometimes you see in reports that, like, in some of the cases, there was a ski mask, not a balaclava.

但任何做这种事的人 probably 都会遮住自己的脸。

And, like, any person doing this is probably gonna hide their face.

对吧？

Right?

但这也还是个有趣的巧合。

But, like, still interesting coincidence.

是的。

Yeah.

第二点，我之前没深入思考的是，在伊莉莎的案件中，让我印象深刻的是，她的家人说这个男人穿着一件灯芯绒运动夹克，这让我很困惑。

Number two, something I didn't get, like, deep into was that in Eliza's case, something that stood out to me was that the family said this guy was wearing a tweed sports jacket, which, like, I don't know.

在我知道这个社交俱乐部之前，我就觉得这太奇怪了。

I thought it was so weird even before I knew about this, like, social club.

感觉非常拘谨、正经。

It feels very, like, buttoned up.

是的。

Yeah.

他穿着，呃，他穿着，我觉得这不太对劲，当你晚上执行卧底任务时，你不可能会穿成这样去

He had, like, he had, like and I'm like, that's not to me when you're, like, going undercover of night and you're gonna, like, go and

潜入别人家里。

Sneak into someone's house.

是啊。

It it yeah.

或者一件运动外套。

Or a sports coat.

这感觉是不是特别奇怪？

Does it, like, feel super bizarre?

对我来说，这太古怪了。

It's so it's so odd to me.

所以，在我看来，那次袭击，你几乎可以是在这个女孩的家里，或者是在那个社交俱乐部里。

So, like, in my mind, like, that attack, I'm like, you could almost be either in this girl's home or you could be at this, like, social club.

是的。

Yeah.

另外一件事是我注意到，文章中提到一个女孩被拍到在一个她称之为安全屋的地方，这让我怀疑，我们一直在找的房间和浴室是不是就是这个地方。

Now the other thing that I noticed was that there is one account in the article about a girl who was filmed in what she called or they called a safety house, which got me wondering if that's what the room and, like, bathroom if that's what we've been looking for.

对吧？

Right?

这样一来，这个男人为什么不想留下任何女孩的痕迹就说得通了，不只是带走证据。

Like, this would make even more sense why this guy wouldn't want any trace evidence from the girls left behind, not just them taking evidence.

也许这根本不是他每天生活和监视的地方。

Like, maybe this isn't a place that he lives and gets to watch over day in and day out.

现在听好了。

Now listen.

我知道警方曾调查过儿童性虐待领域，因为1992年3月《时代报》的一篇文章提到，他们的调查引发了50多次所谓的附带逮捕。

I know that police looked into the world of, like, child sexual abuse because a March 1992 article in The Age said that more than 50, quote, unquote, ancillary arrests spun out of their investigation.

到了五月，他们向记者保罗·戴利和卡罗琳·威尔逊确认，正在针对卡门案件专门调查这些团伙，因为他们了解到，犯罪者之间会互相交换未来受害者的资讯。

And by May, they confirmed to reporters Paul Daly and Caroline Wilson that they're investigating these rings specifically in relation to Carmen's case because they learned that offenders are known to trade information on future victims.

在这里，他们甚至推测，可能有不止一人与她的死亡有关。

And here, they even speculate that more than one person was linked to her death.

但就在该文章发表的第二天，《时代报》第三版刊登了一则极小的简讯，称Spectrum特别行动组组长否认了此前报道的几乎所有内容，但《星期日时代报》的编辑仍坚持报道的准确性。

But the literal next day that that article was published, there's this, like, tiny little blurb that ran on page three of The Age that said the head of the Spectrum Task Force denied pretty much everything that was previously reported, but the editor of The Sunday Age stood by the accuracy of the report.

然后，就结束了。

And then it's like, the end.

就像我们从此不再谈论这件事了。

Like, that's when we stopped talking about it.

当然，那时他们就不再将此事与先生联系起来讨论了。

Granted, like, that's when they stopped talking about it in relation to Mr.

真残忍，我刚刚给你看的那条标题是在那之后的六月登出来的。

Cruel, that headline that I just showed you ran in June after that.

是的。

Mhmm.

如今回顾这些年，我觉得这个理论受到的关注最少，但对我来说却是最合理的。

Now in later years, I feel like this theory gets the least amount of attention, but it is the one that makes the most sense to me.

不过公平地说，当人们谈论具体人物时，并不完全排除他们可能涉及这种阴暗行为的可能性。

Though, to be fair, when people talk about specific people, they don't necessarily rule out the idea that they might have been involved in something sinister like this.

但大多数主流理论，甚至警方的说法，都像是认定这只是一个男人干的。

But most of the prevailing theories, even the way the police talk, it's like they all know it was just one guy.

但我不知道他们是怎么知道的，或者他们怎么能在这么多年后还这么确定。

But I don't know how they know that or how they could all these years later.

那么这些年里，还有谁被点名过？

Well, and who else has been named over the years?

你肯定想不到，但事实上，最近被点名的嫌疑人之一是约瑟夫·迪安杰洛。

You're not gonna believe this, but, actually, one of the most recent suspects that got named was Joseph DeAngelo.

金州杀手。

The Golden State Killer.

就是他。

That's the one.

加州，就是美国的那个加州？

Golden State as in The US.

在加利福尼亚。

In California.

是的。

Yeah.

据说，在他被捕后，美国当局发现，就在金州杀手在加州的袭击停止后的第二年，克鲁尔先生就在澳大利亚出现了。

Apparently, after his arrest, US authorities realized that the year after the Golden State Killer attacks stopped in California, that's when Mr.

克鲁尔在澳大利亚出现了。

Cruel emerged in Australia.

明白了。

Okay.

在深入调查后，美国当局发现约瑟夫确实在澳大利亚待过一段时间，曾在越南战争期间服役，是的。

And after looking into it, The US authorities, like, found that Joseph actually had spent some time in Australia, like, a tour of duty during the Vietnam War, which yeah.

我知道你肯定会说，这并不是发生在二十世纪八十年代的事。

You I know you're gonna say, this is not which was not in the nineteen eighties.

我知道。

I know.

时间点。

Timing.

他们有点觉得，嗯，他和这个地方可能有些关联。

They're kinda thinking, well, you know, he has some connection to this place.

也许他曾经回去过，某时又回到了那里。

Maybe he could have, like, gone back, returned at some point.

他们的作案手法很相似，比如破门而入、戴面具、声称要抢劫受害者后再实施性侵，而且都是极其周密的策划者。

They kinda have similar MOs, like the breaking and entering, wearing a mask, claiming to rob their victims before committing sexual assault, and, like, the idea that they're, like, meticulous planners.

不仅如此，他们俩在作案过程中都曾暂停过，从受害者的冰箱里拿食物吃。

And not even that, like, both of them at one point paused during their attacks to, like, eat food out of the victim's fridge.

但尽管这个结局对这个故事来说简直不可思议，我得告诉你，维多利亚警方很快就把他排除为嫌疑人了。

But as, like, incredible of an ending as that would be to this story, I have to break it to you that, like, pretty quickly, Victoria police rule him out as a suspect.

我不清楚他们是如何排除他的，但我们知道，维多利亚警方调查了这个可能性，认为没什么实质依据。

I don't have the details on how they rule him out, but we do know that Victoria Police investigated this theory, decided there is not much to it.

但如果我们想从维多利亚警方那里得到一个名字，也许我们该信任那个为他们工作多年、多年来一直向公众提及一名嫌疑人的家伙。

But if we're looking to the Victoria Police for a name, maybe we should trust the guy who worked for them for ages, who's been telling the public about a suspect that was brought to him years ago.

喜欢听《犯罪 Junkie》吗？希望这些调查能搬上大银幕？

Love listening to Crime Junkie and wish you could put these investigations on the big screen?

我们有个令人兴奋的消息。

We've got exciting news.

《犯罪 Junkie》现在已在 Tubi 平台上线播出。

Crime Junkie is now streaming on Tubi.

没错。

That's right.

你可以以一种全新的方式，和 Ashley 与 Brit 一起体验那些让你念念不忘的故事。

You can experience the stories you can't stop thinking about alongside Ashley and Brit in a whole new way.

同样是深入的探究，同样令人难忘的案件，以及同样原创的报道。

It's the same deep dives, the same unforgettable cases, and the same original reporting.

现已在Tubi平台播出。

Now streaming on Tubi.

2022年，一位相当知名的澳大利亚凶杀案侦探罗恩·艾多尔斯开始公开谈论一个关于‘残忍先生’可能是谁的理论。

In 2022, a pretty well known Australian homicide detective named Ron Idols starts becoming vocal about a potential theory of who Mr.

残忍先生的身份。

Cruel could be.

他说，那个男人的身份是一个他帮忙送进监狱的职业罪犯告诉他的。

He says that the man's identity was shared with him by a career criminal that he helped put behind bars.

罗恩参加了一个名为《生活与犯罪》的播客节目，主持人安德鲁·弗鲁尔，他在节目中讲述了他与一个名叫阿尔弗雷德·盖伊（也叫阿尔菲）的臭名昭著的持械抢劫犯的对话。

Ron went on a podcast called Life and Crimes with Andrew Vruehl, where he tells the story of his conversation with a notorious armed robber named Alfred Gay, also known as Alfie.

那他为什么是跟一个播客主播说，而不是告诉其他警察呢？

And why is he talking to a podcaster and not other police?

就是，没有恶意？

Like, no shade?

不。

No.

我们也想听这些故事？

We also want the stories?

不。

No.

假设他确实这么做了。

Assume he did.

正如我所说，这件事是在2022年公布的，但他早在2004年还在该机构工作时就听到了这个故事。

This is coming out, like I said, in 2022, but he heard the story back in 2004 when he was still working with the agency.

所以，简单说一下背景。

So, like, just a quick backstory.

阿尔菲·盖是个相当臭名昭著的罪犯。

Alfie Gay was this pretty infamous crook.

他在上世纪七十年代参与了澳大利亚多起重大劫案，包括著名的MSS劫案——他和同伙假扮成安保人员，偷走了福特汽车公司墨尔本工厂员工的全部周薪，金额高达25万澳元，在当时是一笔巨款。

He was involved in several big heists in Australia in the seventies, including the notorious MSS robbery where he and his gang posed as fake security officers, stole the entire weekly payroll for workers at a Ford Motor Company in Melbourne, like, 250 k, big at the time.

然后他还参与了那起著名的博彩公司抢劫案，一群全副武装的劫匪从一家体育博彩俱乐部抢走了100万到1500万美元。

And then he was involved in the great bookie robbery where a heavily armed gang stole anywhere from 1 to $15,000,000 from a sports betting club.

所以简而言之，Alfie去找Ron，说：‘有个人跟我一起干过一些坏事，他亲口告诉我，他杀了Carmen Chen。’

So long story short, Alfie comes to Ron and he's like, there's this guy who was involved in some criminal stuff with me, and he admitted to me that he killed Carmen Chen.

他告诉Ron的这个名字是Norman Lung Lee。

The name he gives Ron is Norman Lung Lee.

他平时被人叫Normie。

He went by Normie.

当你仔细审视Normie的背景时，会发现很多强有力的证据表明这很可能就是事实。

And when you look at the circumstances surrounding Normie, there are some really compelling reasons why this very well could be true.

首先，Alfie说Normie对女学生有特殊癖好，尤其是校服，这一点，对得上。

So for one, Alfie says that Normie had a fetish for school girls and specifically school uniforms, which, like, check.

是的。

Mhmm.

其次，Alfie告诉侦探，Normie的房子靠近Lower Plenty，而Eliza遇袭的地点就在那里。

Second, Alfie tells the detective that Normie had a house close to Lower Plenty where Eliza's attack took place.

而且他似乎在西北郊区拥有一家点心工厂，就在特尔马林机场的方向。

And he apparently owns a dim sum factory in, like, the Northwest Suburbs, which is out in the direction of Telmarine Airport.

所以他应该对那个区域非常熟悉。

So he would have been very familiar with that area.

而卡门最终被发现的那个浅坟，据说就在他的工厂和他住的地方之间。

And the shallow grave where Carmen was eventually found, apparently, that's like right in between his factory and where he lived.

多年来，有些人推测这位先生。

Now over the years, some have speculated that Mr.

残忍的人可能来自执法部门，因为他非常擅长掩盖自己的行踪并逍遥法外。

Cruel might be someone in law enforcement because he's just so good at covering his tracks and getting away with crimes.

但你知道还有哪类人也很擅长掩盖自己的行踪吗？

But you know what other class of individual is really good at covering their tracks?

职业罪犯。

Career criminals.

没错。

Exactly.

此外，本案最大的谜团之一是为什么残忍先生

Also, one of the biggest mysteries of all in this case is why Mr.

在卡门之后突然停止了对女孩的袭击

Cruel suddenly stopped attacking girls after Carmen.

1992年7月，就在卡门失踪一年多后，诺米·李卷入了另一起重大抢劫案，并在警方追捕过程中被击毙。

Well, in July 1992, just over one year after the disappearance of Carmen, Normie Lee was involved in another big heist, and he was killed by police as they chased him.

需要重申的是，我刚才讲述的这个故事虽然戏剧性十足，但完全是间接证据。

Now just to reiterate, the story I've just told you, while, like, cinematic as hell, is purely circumstantial.

诺米·李从未因与残忍先生相关的任何罪行被起诉，

Normie Lee was never charged with any of the crimes associated with Mr.

警方也从未将他列为嫌疑人。

Cruel, and police never named him as a suspect.

另外我想说的是，他完全不符合联邦调查局的侧写。

And the other thing I'll say is he doesn't really fit at all with the FBI profile.

但我还有一个推测想和你探讨一下。

But I do have one more theory to run down with you.