谋杀案：琼·韦伯斯特与玛丽·安努齐

20岁的玛丽·伊安努齐的最后一天是1979年8月11日，星期六。

20 year old Marie Iannuzzi's last day was Saturday, 08/11/1979.

同样，这比琼的案件早了三年。

Again, this is three years before Joan.

那天是她父亲的生日。

That was her dad's birthday.

玛丽的姐姐告诉我们，她们在东波士顿长大，家里是一个庞大而紧密的意大利家庭。

And Marie's sister told us that they grew up in East Boston in this, like, big, close knit Italian family.

尽管父母努力保护孩子，但她们其实经历了很多坎坷。

And even though their parents tried to shelter their kids, like, they'd really been through a lot.

比如，玛丽的哥哥也曾以一种完全无关的方式被谋杀。

Like, Marie's brother had actually been murdered too in, like, a totally unrelated way.

但玛丽依然善良、爱玩，对周围的世界毫无戒心。

But Marie was still trusting and loved to have fun, so she wasn't suspicious of the world around her.

从玛丽去世那天发生的一切来看，我感觉她并没有意识到自己身处危险之中。

And nothing about the day that Marie died tells me that she thought she was in danger.

她早上和父母在一起，之后玛丽和她的男友大卫去了他表亲的婚礼。

She spent the morning with her parents, and after Marie went with her boyfriend David to his cousin's wedding.

在婚宴上，大卫的裤子撕破了，这简直就像每个像样的婚礼派对都会有的事。

Now at the reception, David ripped his pants, which is like what good wedding reception doesn't have ripped pants.

但那时他只想回家。

But he at that point was like, I wanna go home.

但玛丽想去新郎家举办的后续派对。

But Marie wanted to go to this after party at the groom's family's house.

于是她和大卫为此发生了争执。

So her and David end up having this argument about this.

我们采访过的婚礼目击者没有描述任何暴力行为，只说这是一场小小的分歧。

Witnesses we talked to who were at the wedding didn't describe anything violent, just this, like, disagreement.

是的。

Mhmm.

大卫最终离开了，玛丽找到了搭车去参加那个后续派对。

David ends up leaving, and Marie finds a ride to go to this after party.

这大约是当晚的5点30分。

This is, like, around 05:30 that evening.

到了十点，派对已经接近尾声。

Now by ten, the after party was winding down.

于是另一位客人名叫坎迪的人同意送玛丽回家。

So another guest named Candy agreed to take Marie home.

但在路上，玛丽让坎迪在靠近洛根机场的一家酒吧下车，坎迪在晚上10点30分左右照做了。

But on the way, Marie asked Candy to just drop her off at a bar instead one near Logan Airport, which Candy did at around 10:30PM.

然后坎迪回到了派对现场，她的男友伦尼正在那里等她。

Then Candy went back to the after party where her boyfriend Lenny was waiting for her.

现在我想，玛丽可能把一些东西落在了坎迪的车里，于是坎迪和/或伦尼把这些东西送回了酒吧里的玛丽。

Now at some point, I guess Marie had supposedly left some things in Candy's car, and so Candy and or Lenny delivered those things back to Marie at the bar.

他们前后两次去看望她，最后一次是在午夜之后。

And there were, like, two separate trips where they saw her, and the last time was after midnight.

所以现在已经是8月12日了。

So it would now be August 12.

但至少，这就是他们的说法。

And that was their story at least.

伦尼说，最后一次他跑回去给她送钥匙时，提出送她回家，但她拒绝了，说她要见一个人。

Lenny says that the last time he ran in to give her a set of keys, he offered to give her a ride home, but she said no because she was meeting someone.

他说，他们一起走出了酒吧。

He said, they walked out of the bar.

他回到车里，凯迪正在那里等他，而玛丽则转过街角，那是他最后一次见到她。

He went to the car where Candy was waiting, and Marie walked around the corner, and that is the last that he saw of her.

一位在酒吧与玛丽碰面的女友也证实了部分说法。

And a girlfriend who had met up with Marie at the bar backs some of this up.

她说，就在伦尼最后一次出现前，玛丽正在打电话。

She says that Marie was, like, making a phone call right before Lenny showed up for the last time.

当伦尼离开时，玛丽也离开了。

And as Lenny was leaving, so was Marie.

但玛丽告诉这位朋友别走，因为她马上就会回来，大概三十分钟后。

But Marie told this friend not to leave because she was gonna be right back in, like, thirty minutes.

不过这位朋友说，她也不知道玛丽去了哪里。

Though this friend's like, don't, you know, I don't know where she was going.

情况并不是很清楚。

It wasn't totally clear.

但这位女士证实，她看到玛丽和伦尼一样走出了酒吧，但之后就再也没有回来。

But this woman confirmed that she saw Marie walk out of the bar same as Lenny, but then she never came back.

那是他们最后一次见到她。

That was the last they saw of her.

所以她的家人很快报了失踪，但已经太迟了，因为一天后，也就是8月13日，她的尸体在这家龙虾公司后面的沼泽地被发现。

So her family reported her missing quickly, but it was already too late because a day later on August 13, that's when her body was discovered in the marshy area behind this lobster company.

当她被发现时，身上穿着完整的衣服，所有首饰都在。

Now when she's found, she's fully clothed with all of her jewelry on.

唯一缺失的是她的鞋子和丝袜，这些始终没有找到。

The only thing missing were her shoes and stockings, which were never found.

但其他所有东西都原封不动，包括她穿的连体衣。

But everything else was in place, even her bodysuit that she was wearing.

尸检确定她死于勒颈，死亡时间大约在尸体被发现前十二小时。

Now an autopsy determined that she died from ligature strangulation probably about twelve hours before her body was found.

而且有搏斗的迹象，脸上、手臂和腿部都有淤青和擦伤。

And there were signs of a struggle, bruises and scrapes like on her face and her arms, her legs.

法医表示没有明确的性侵迹象，但可以确定在她失踪当晚到被杀害之间发生过某种性行为，因为阴道拭子检测出了精子。

And the medical examiner said there were no clear signs of sexual assault, but it was obvious that there had been some kind of sexual activity between the night that she went missing and when she was killed because the Emmy found sperm after doing a vaginal smear.

她被发现后，在案件初期的那些日子里，嗯。

So after she's found, like, in the first, like, you know, early days of this case Mhmm.

当时主要有两名嫌疑人，分别是玛丽的男友大卫和伦尼。

There were basically two suspects, and that was Marie's boyfriend, David, and Lenny.

但调查人员很快就把焦点集中在了伦尼身上。

But investigators had quickly zeroed in on Lenny.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，他是最后见到玛丽的人。

I mean, he is the last person seen with Marie.

是的。

Mhmm.

他熟悉马什地区，因为他是一名渔民。

He would have known the Marsh area because turns out he's a fisherman by trade.

他实际上把鱼卖给了离她尸体被发现地点很近的那家龙虾公司。

Actually sold fish to the very lobster company near where she's found.

哦。

Oh.

伦尼的犯罪记录很长，包括绑架一名16岁女孩，以及试图强奸一名他主动提出送她回家的大学生。

And Lenny had a pretty long rap sheet, including the abduction of a 16 year old girl and attempted rape of a college student that he offered to drive home.

他因第二项罪行服过刑，伯克告诉我们，在他看来，过去的行为，尤其是针对女性的性暴力，是预测未来行为的最佳指标之一。

Now he served prison time for that second crime, and Burke told us that to him, past behavior, especially sexual violence against women, is one of the best indicators of future behavior.

他认为，随着时间推移，伦尼的犯罪行为越来越大胆，他的心理特征与玛丽案件中那种性动机的谋杀者高度吻合。

He thinks Lenny got bolder in his crimes as the years went on and that his psychology lined up with the type of murder or murderer in Marie's case, a murder that was sexually motivated.

当警方最初采访伦尼和坎迪时，他们的说法引起了注意。

Now when police originally interviewed Lenny and Candy, their stories stood out to them.

我的意思是，他们两人都说，当伦尼和玛丽一起走出去时，坎迪在车里等着。

I mean, they both had the same story that when Lenny and Marie walked out together, Candy was waiting in the car.

伦尼主动提出送玛丽回家，但她拒绝了。

Lenny offered Marie a ride home, but she said no.

她要见一个人，然后拐过街角走了。

She's meeting someone, and she walks off around the corner.

但警察注意到，伦尼和坎迪的证词几乎完美一致。

But police noted that, like, Lenny and Candy's stories matched up almost too perfectly.

就像案卷里写的一字不差。

Like, the case file says word for word.

我的意思是，我明白他们在这里暗示的是什么。

I mean, I I get what they're, like, wink, wink, nudge, nudging at here.

但如果他们的证词不一致，我觉得那也会显得很可疑。

But if their stories didn't match, I think that would look bad too.

对吧？

Right?

完全正确。

Totally.

再说一遍，我觉得关键是那个一字不差的部分。

Again, I think it's like the word for word part.

对他们来说，这种精确性显得很可疑。

Like, to them Exactness.

看起来像是排练过的，我想。

It seemed rehearsed, I guess.

而且报告中提到，Candy非常紧张。

And in the report, it says that Candy was really nervous.

她跟警察说话时都在发抖。

Like, she was shaking when she talked to the police.

自从18岁起，她就和Lenny在一起八年了，我们接触过的一些了解他们的人说，她愿意为这个男人做任何事，而他也会逼她做很多事。

Now she'd been with Lenny for around eight years since she was 18, and people we talked to who knew them said that she would do anything for this guy, and he would push her to do a lot.

你猜猜谁是他涉嫌强奸未遂案的不在场证人？他最终也因此案被定罪。

Because guess who was his alibi witness for the attempted rape case that he ended up being convicted of?

坎迪。

Candy.

坎迪。

Candy.

问题是，在玛丽的案件中，没有任何证据能反驳他们的说法，嗯。

Problem is there was nothing here in Marie's case to disprove their story Mhmm.

也没有其他线索可以跟进。

And nothing else to really go off of.

因此，这个案子搁置了将近三年，这也把我带回了1982年，玛丽的姐姐打给助理检察官伯克的那通电话。

So the case went cold for nearly three years, which brings me back to 1982 and this call from Marie's sister to ADA Burke.

现在，他已了解了玛丽案件的细节，开始怀疑自己是否在追查同一个嫌疑人，于是他翻开了琼的案件档案，想看看有没有什么能将伦尼和她的失踪联系起来的线索。

So now that he has gotten up to speed on the details of Marie's case and he's wondering if he could be looking for the same perp, he goes to Joan's case file looking to see if there's anything that might tie Lenny to her disappearance.

果然不出所料，你猜怎么着？

And sure enough, what do you know?

伯克得知，今年一月曾有一条线索，将一切串联了起来。

Burke learns that a tip had come in January that ties everything together for him.

喜欢听《Crime Junkie》，并希望这些调查能搬上大银幕吗？

Love listening to Crime Junkie and wish you could put these investigations on the big screen?

我们有个好消息。

We've got exciting news.

《Crime Junkie》现在已在Tubi平台上线播出。

Crime junkie is now streaming on Tubi.

没错。

That's right.

你可以以一种全新的方式，和Ashley与Brit一起体验那些让你念念不忘的故事。

You can experience the stories you can't stop thinking about alongside Ashley and Brit in a whole new way.

依然是深入的调查、难忘的案件和原创的报道。

It's the same deep dives, the same unforgettable cases, and the same original reporting.

现在已在Tubi平台播出。

Now streaming on Tubi.

1982年1月，在发现Joan的行李一周前，一名女子打电话给警方，讲述了她多年前遭遇的一起可怕事件。

In January 1982, a week before they found Joan's luggage, a woman had called police to tell them about this scary incident that she had with a man years before.

她从未向警方报案。

She never reported it.

坦白说，两者之间有很多不同之处。

And admittedly, there are plenty of differences.

对吧？

Right?

但当她在新闻上听到琼失踪的细节时，她觉得有必要让别人知道她曾经经历的这件事。

Like but when she heard about the circumstances of Joan's disappearance on the news, she felt like she needed someone to know about this thing that happened to her.

我们的记者马利卡·多利沃尔在2025年找到了这位提供线索的人，以便我们能亲耳听到她的故事。

Our reporter, Malika Dollywall, actually tracked this tipster down back in 2025 so we could hear her story firsthand.

这位女性声称，在琼失踪前几年，她二十多岁时，有一晚在俱乐部，遇到了一个她认识的邻居。

And this woman claimed that years before Joan disappeared, when she was in her twenties, she had been out at a club one night, and this guy that she knew from her neighborhood was there.

当她准备离开时，他劝她载他一程，说他病了。

And when she was going to leave, he convinced her to give him a ride, saying that he was, like, sick.

需要帮忙去医院。

Needed help getting to the hospital.

但当她一上车，他就让她去别的地方，比如靠近水边的某个地方。

But once she was in the car, he told her to go somewhere else, like somewhere out by the water.

当她意识到他们不是去医院时，他掏出一把枪并试图侵犯她。

And when she realized that they weren't going to the hospital, he pulled out a gun and tried to assault her.

她说自己当时通过谈话摆脱了困境，提醒他有人看到他们一起离开。

Now she said that she was able to talk her way out of this situation, reminding him that people had seen them leave together.

所以，他们知道她会和他在一起。

So, like, they knew she would be with him.

但她说这是她一生中最可怕的时刻，当她看到琼的新闻故事时，她无法摆脱那种强烈的感觉。

But she said this was the most terrifying moment of her life, and she just could not shake this overwhelming sense when she saw Joan's story on the news.

比如，万一就是他呢？

Like, what if it was him?

万一他这些年学聪明了，转而盯上了一个首先与他关联不那么紧密的人呢？

What if he wised up over the years, went after someone that, first of all, he wasn't as closely tied to?

没有人能够确认他那天晚上是否见过另一个人。

No one could, like, confirm that he had met with another person that night.

在某个地方，对，就是贝伊机场，那里人来人往，没人会记得谁和谁一起离开的。

At a place, right, the Bay Airport where so many people are coming and going, they might not remember who left with whom.

而真正让她下定决心报警的，是这件事。

And here's the real thing that made her sure she had to call police.

她听说那个朝她掏枪的男人，现在正在洛根机场附近开出租车，不是通过公司，就是自己随便接活，无证运营。

She'd heard rumors that the guy who pulled a gun on her was now driving a cab around Logan Airport, not through a company or anything, just kinda like picking up rides unlicensed.

所以，正是这一点让她拿起电话，向警方提供了那个男人的名字——伦纳德·伦尼·帕拉迪索。

So that is what made her pick up the phone and give police the man's name, Leonard Lenny Paradiso.

当时，这个线索似乎没什么进展。

Now that tip didn't seem to go anywhere at the time.

但如今，检察官伯克看到这条线索，觉得它意义重大。

But now that ADA Burke sees it, it means everything.

这个伦尼就是玛丽案件里的那个人。

This is the same Lenny from Marie's case.

于是他强行介入玛丽的案件，即使这超出了他的管辖范围。

So he kind of strong arms his way into Marie's case and takes over even though it's outside of his jurisdiction.

因为如果他想抓伦尼，通过玛丽的谋杀案来定罪会更有把握，主要是因为琼的案子不算谋杀。

Because if he wants to get Lenny, he has a much better chance of nailing him for Marie's homicide, mostly because Joan's case isn't a homicide.

他们至今还没找到她。

They still haven't found her.

所以他全身心投入到这个案子中。

So he throws himself into that one.

听好了，这绝不是铁证如山，主要都是间接证据。

And listen, this isn't a slam dunk by any It's mostly circumstantial.

就连坎迪和伦尼说他们当晚开的那辆车，也早就不见了。

Even the car that Candy and Lenny say that they drove that night is long gone.

碰巧那是一辆蓝色的车吗？

Was it a blue car by chance?

不是。

No.

那不是。

It wasn't.

而且这根本无关紧要。

And doesn't even matter.

我非常怀疑他在琼失踪多年后还开着同一辆车，因为在过去三四年间，伦尼和坎迪报告了八辆车和两艘船被盗、受损或沉没，几乎都是为了保险理赔。

I highly doubt he even had the same car years later when Joan went missing because over the last, like, three or four years, Lenny and Candy reported eight cars and, like, two boats stolen, damaged, or sunk for basically insurance claims.

所以我认为那辆车不是。

So I don't think it was Yeah.

而且不管是不是同一辆，但那辆车不是蓝色的。

And the same one blue or not, but it wasn't blue.

我知道。

I know that.

现在，伯克为了支持他的案件，找到了伦尼假释官的一组笔记。

Now one of the things that Burke finds to help his case is a set of notes from Lenny's parole officer.

根据笔记，1979年8月13日中午左右——也就是玛丽的尸体被认出后几个小时——伦尼告诉他的假释官，他担心警方会就玛丽的事质询他。

According to the notes, on 08/13/1979 at around noon, this would have been a few hours after Marie's body was ID'd, Lenny told his parole officer that he was worried about police questioning him about her.

这可不是我担心的事情，当

Which is, like, not something I worry about when

在跑步。

On a run.

尸体出现了。

Body turns up.

一样。

Same.

但我的意思是，如果我是最后一个见到她的人，或者前一天见过她，我可能会担心。

But, I mean, I might be if I was the one last seen with her or seen with her the day before.

我的意思是，这可不是什么陌生人。

I mean, it's not like it's some random person.

他和她有关系。

He had a connection to her.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

在伯克针对伦尼的所有证据中，这个对我来说是最不令人担忧的。

Of everything that Burke's got against Lenny, this is kinda like the least concerning to me.

现在有一个问题阻碍了对伦尼提起指控，那就是大卫。

Now there is one problem standing in the way of bringing charges against Lenny, and that is David.

他是玛丽的男朋友。

Which is Marie's boyfriend.

是的。

Yeah.

一个好的辩护律师会把男朋友提出来。

A good defense attorney would offer up the boyfriend.

显而易见。

Obviously.

对。

Right.

记住，他曾经是早期的嫌疑人。

Like, remember, he was an early suspect.

那天晚上他们吵架了。

They were fighting that night.

他仍然没有被排除嫌疑。

He still hadn't been ruled out.

而且，实际上，围绕他也有许多可疑之处。

And, actually, there was a lot of suspicious stuff around him too.

正如我所说，根据警方报告，大卫和玛丽在她最后一次被看到还活着的那天发生了争执。

Like I said, according to police reports, David and Marie argued the day that she's last seen alive.

显然，她当时正在和别人交往，所以这也构成了动机。

Apparently, she was seeing someone else, so there was motive there too.

而且他曾经虐待过她。

And he had been abusive to her.

就在几个月前，他还曾勒紧过她的脖子，吓得她搬出了他的住所，去朋友家住。

He'd even strangled her just a few months earlier, and it left her so scared that she moved out of his place and stayed with a friend.

更别提了，在他们一起参加完婚礼的第二天早上，大卫打电话给玛丽的家人，说她没回家，问她是不是在他们那儿，这甚至让家人觉得奇怪，因为他平时从不这样主动联系。

Not to mention, the morning after that wedding they were at together, David called Marie's family saying that she didn't come home and asking if she was with them, and that even struck them as odd because he didn't usually check-in like that.

最终，地区检察官伯克决定将这些情况提交给大陪审团，他在1982年3月这么做了。

Ultimately, ADA Burke decides to put this all to a grand jury, and he does this in March 1982.

他将展示他们在玛丽案件中掌握的证据，让陪审团决定是否对大卫或伦尼提起指控。

He's gonna present what they have in Marie's case and let them decide whether to bring charges against David or Lenny.

在他看来，大卫是一个令人同情的证人。

And in his opinion, David was a sympathetic witness.

他回答了每一个问题。

He answers every question.

他承认了自己的所作所为，并声称自己独处时曾为玛丽哭泣。

He owns up to what he did, and he claims that he cried for Marie when he was alone.

更重要的是，根据伯克的说法，大卫与玛丽尸体发现的地点没有任何关联，但伦尼有。

And most importantly, according to Burke, David didn't have any connection to where Marie's body was found, but Lenny did.

他再次向那家龙虾公司出售鱼类。

Again, he sold fish to that lobster company.

我想陪审团也认同这一点，因为他们决定起诉伦尼。

And I guess the grand jury agrees because they chose to indict Lenny.

1982年7月6日，他因涉嫌谋杀玛丽被逮捕，并一直被关押，直到审判开始。

And on 07/06/1982, he's arrested for Marie's murder and remains locked away until his trial is set to begin.

在被捕和审判之间的这段时间对检察官伯克来说极为宝贵，因为一名名叫罗伯特·邦德的囚犯在1983年初主动联系伯克，称伦尼在狱中曾说过一些话。

And that time between arrest and trial proves to be invaluable for ADA Burke because an inmate named Robert Bond comes forward in early eighty three, and he tells Burke that Lenny had been doing some talking in jail.

邦德说，当他被调到和伦尼同一间牢房时，两人变得很亲近，而且他们之前曾在同一所监狱服过刑。

Bond said he got close to Lenny when he was moved into the same jail cell as him, and they'd actually served time together at the same prison before.

他们关系密切到邦德声称伦尼不仅承认了一起谋杀，而是两起——分别是玛丽和琼的谋杀案。

And they got so close that Bond claims Lenny confessed not to just one murder, but two, both Marie's and Jones.

在给伯克的一封信中，邦德写道，伦尼告诉他，他曾独自返回玛丽所在的酒吧，说服玛丽上了坎迪的车，谎称自己要去接坎迪。

In a letter to Burke, Bon writes that Lenny told him that he drove back to the bar Marie was at without Candy and convinced Marie to get in Candy's car by telling her he needed to pick Candy up.

但事实上，他开车带她去了沼泽地，对她实施了性侵，并称在挣扎过程中，玛丽抓伤了伦尼。

But instead, he drives her to the marshes, sexually assaults her, and he says that during a struggle, Marie scratched Lenny.

因此，他特别提到，他不希望调查人员从她的指甲下刮取皮肤细胞。

And so he made this, like, specific comment that he didn't want investigators scraping under her fingernails for skin cells.

至于琼，邦德声称伦尼告诉他，在琼失踪的那天晚上，他正在做非正式的出租车生意，在琼下飞机后于洛根机场接了她。

Now as for Joan, Bond claims that Lenny told him that on the night Joan disappeared, he was doing his unofficial cab thing, picked her up at Logan Airport after she got off her flight.

邦德说，伦尼声称自己告诉琼，他需要先去办公室拿些文件，然后带她去剑桥，但最终他并没有这么做。

And Bond says that Lenny claimed he told Joan he needed to stop by his office to, like, pick up some papers or something and that after that, he'd take her to Cambridge, but he didn't.

他把琼带到了他停船的地方，那艘船叫Malefamena，在意大利语中意思是‘邪恶的女人’。

He drove Joan to this pier where he kept his boat, the Malefamena, which means evil woman in Italian.

邦德说，伦尼把琼带上船，给她倒了杯酒，当她拒绝并推开他时，他用威士忌酒瓶击打她的头部右侧，然后对她实施了性侵。

And Bond says that Lenny took Joan onto the boat, offered her a drink, and when she said no and rejected him, he hits her in the head, specifically on the right side of the head with a whiskey bottle and sexually assaulted her.

之后，他把船开到很远的海域，把她的尸体扔进了水里。

And that is when he took the boat way out and dumped her body in the water.

所以他告诉调查人员，伦尼声称事后船上到处都是血。

So he tells investigators that Lenny claimed there was a lot of blood on the boat after this.

两天后，他又把船开出去，直接把它沉了。

And so two days later, he took the boat out again and just sank it.

邦德说，伦尼给他看过墙上贴着的那艘船的照片，他说有两张。

Bond says that Lenny showed him pictures of the boat on his, like, wall that they had, and he said there were two.

一张是小船，另一张是大船。

There's a smaller one, and there's a larger one.

而被他沉掉的是那艘大船。

And the larger one is the one that he sank.

他甚至描述了注册编号。

He even describes the registration numbers.

这一切听起来都非常具体，如果是真的，完全可以证实。

And this all feels, like, ultra specific and provable if it's true.

是的。

Yeah.

就在这个时候，另一名囚犯出面支持邦德的陈述。

And so around this time, another inmate comes forward and backs up Bond's statements.

他声称伦尼也向他坦白了。

He claims that Lenny confessed to him too.

所以，如果调查人员能找到这艘沉没的船，他们或许就能形成一个确凿的案件。

So if investigators can find this sunken boat, they might have a real case.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，在1983年，琼的父母宣布悬赏任何能提供船只位置线索的信息，调查人员正在港口进行搜寻。

So in the '83, Joan's parents announced this reward for any tips that'll lead to its location, and investigators are searching the harbor.

他们派出了潜水员，直到9月27日才找到马莱法梅纳号。

They're bringing in divers, and it takes till September 27, but that's when they find the Malefamena.

他们将它从水底打捞上来，但没有发现任何证据。

They raze it from its watery grave, but there's no evidence found.

我认为这并不会让人相信这个故事不是真的。

Now I don't think this makes anyone believe the story isn't true.

我的意思是，到这个时候，这艘船已经在水下待了将近一年。

I mean, like, the thing's been underwater for almost a year at this point.

说实话，我不觉得你还看得出有血迹的犯罪现场。

Like, I don't know that you would still see a bloody crime scene.

对。

Right.

所以，不幸的是，由于没有能加强琼案的证据，伯克只能专注于为玛丽争取正义。

So, unfortunately, without anything to strengthen Joan's case, Burke has to, like, just focus on getting justice for Marie.

而伦尼因谋杀她的审判于1984年7月9日开始。

And Lenny's trial for her murder begins on 07/09/1984.

到那时，伯克已经找到了另一名囚犯，对方称伦尼向他们承认了罪行。

By then, Burke had secured another inmate who says that Lenny confessed to them.

所以，尽管他没有实物证据，但他认为，那两位主动站出来的线人之间故事的相似性和一致性，使得他们的证词更具可信度。

So even though he doesn't have any physical evidence, he argues that the similarities and consistencies between those two informants who came forward, between their stories, he says, like, because they're so similar, it it makes them more credible.

那么，他们最终没有对她的阴道拭子做任何处理吗？

So did they end up not doing anything with the vaginal smear from her case?

在法庭上，主侦警官表示，该载玻片没有冷藏保存。

So on the stand, the lead detective says that the slide wasn't refrigerated.

当对尸体衣物进行检测时，也没有发现任何精液残留。

And when the body suit was tested, there was no, like, seminal residue on that.

所以这一切都白费了。

So that was all a bust.

等等。

Wait.

那他们有没有检测过她的指甲？

Did they ever test her fingernails then?

那不正是伦尼告诉邦德他们不该做的事吗？

Because isn't that what Lenny told Bond he didn't want them to do?

他们没做，这对我来说本该是第一件事。

They didn't, which for me would have been like the first thing.

他们直接去检查了指甲。

They go straight to the fingernails.

是的。

Yeah.

但不知为何，他们没做。

But for some reason, they didn't.

我不知道他们是觉得没必要，还是别的原因，但他们没做这项检测。

I don't know if they just, like, thought they didn't need it or what, but they don't test that.

也许他们是对的。

And maybe they were right.

因为7月21日，陪审团作出了裁决，伦尼被判定犯有二级谋杀罪，罪名是杀害玛丽·伊安努齐。

Because on July 21, the jury comes back with a verdict, and Lenny is found guilty of second degree murder in the death of Marie Iannuzzi.

他还因企图强奸罪被定罪，并被判处终身监禁。

He's also convicted of assault with intent to rape and sentenced to life prison.

对于玛丽的家人来说，虽然有了宽慰，但这种感受却很复杂。

And for Marie's family, there is relief, but it is complicated.

因为尽管有了定罪，他们还是忍不住觉得被利用了。

Because while there's a conviction, they can't help walking away feeling a little used.

因为整个事情的经过，他们从未真正觉得这与玛丽有关。

Because the way it all played out, they never really felt like it was about Marie.

他们一直觉得，玛丽的案子只是用来为琼讨回公道的手段。

They always felt like Marie's case was just a way to get Joan justice.

就像一块垫脚石。

Like a stepping stone.

这并不是为玛丽伸张正义。

It wasn't justice for Marie.

这是为了给琼讨回公道。

It was justice to find Joan justice.

是的

Yeah.

他们可以利用这个案子把这家伙定罪，同时继续寻找真正对他们重要的那个案件的决定性证据。

Like, they they they could use this to put this guy away while they look for the smoking gun in the case that like really mattered to them all along.

嗯哼

Mhmm.

现在，助理检察官伯克告诉我们，玛丽的审判聚焦于她的案件，他避免在审判中提及琼的案件，除了涉及伦尼女友的交叉质询之类的内容。

Now ADA Burke told us that Marie's trial focused on her case and he avoided bringing Joan's case into that trial beyond like the cross examinations involving Lenny's girlfriend or whatever.

但是

But

尽管如此，这仍然是玛丽妹妹的感受。

still, that's how Marie's sister feels.

而且，带着这种感觉离开，确实让人很不舒服。

And that's like a pretty yucky feeling to walk away with.

确实如此。

It is.

对吧？

Right?

我不确定她指的是审判本身，还是指这个案件被接手的整个事实。

And I don't know if it's the trial she's just talking about or even the fact of like how like the fact that the case got taken on it all.

是的。

Yeah.

但我同意。

But I agree.

就像他们离开时的体验一样。

Like that's what that was their experience walking away.

这是一种糟糕的感觉。

And that's a terrible feeling.

就像我说的，很复杂。

And like I said, complicated.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，她姐姐会不会做些不同的事？

Like, would her sister do anything differently?

不会。

No.

很可能不会，因为玛丽早在之前就被完全遗忘了，但这依然让人难过。

Probably not because Marie had long been forgotten, like, altogether before this, but it still sucks.

而到最后，他们并没有为琼获得彻底的正义，因为琼的家人仍处于悬而未决的状态。

And at the end of this, it's not really like they got Joan total justice because Joan's family is kind of in limbo.

嗯。

Mhmm.

无论媒体如何报道，或检察官办公室如何关注，都无法改变现状。

And no amount of media coverage or attention from the prosecutor's office is changing things.

他们基本上被告知：只要没有尸体，我们就无能为力。

They're basically told that until we have a body, we have nothing.

所以，现在他们只能寄希望于这一点。

So that is the thing they have to hope for now.

但每个人都知道，这种可能性微乎其微。

But everyone knows that chances are slim.

我的意思是，根据供词，琼现在大概在海上某个地方。

I mean, per the confession, Joan is, like, out at sea somewhere.

是的。

Yeah.

而现实是，他们可能永远无法为她举行正式的安葬。

And the reality is they may never be able to properly lay her to rest.

我不知道随着时间推移，这种现实是变得更容易接受还是更难接受，但我想象无论哪种情况，当琼在1990年4月被发现时，他们的世界都会天翻地覆——而她并非被发现于深海或冲上岸，这一发现质疑了他们过去八年一直依赖的整个供词理论。

And I don't know if that reality gets harder or easier to accept as time goes on, but I imagine either way, their world gets flipped upside down when Joan is found in April 1990 and not in deep waters or washed up ashore, where she's found calls into question the entire confession that their theory has hinged on for the last eight years.

喜欢听《犯罪 Junkie》吗？希望你们能把这些调查搬上大银幕？

Love listening to Crime Junkie and wish you could put these investigations on the big screen?

我们有个好消息。

We've got exciting news.

《犯罪 Junkie》现在已在Tubi平台上线播出。

Crime Junkie is now streaming on Tubi.

没错。

That's right.

你可以通过一种全新的方式，和阿什莉与布里一起体验那些让你念念不忘的故事。

You can experience the stories you can't stop thinking about alongside Ashley and Brit in a whole new way.

同样的深度调查，同样的难忘案件，同样的原创报道，现在已在Tubi平台播出。

It's the same deep dives, the same unforgettable cases, and the same original reporting now streaming on Tubi.

琼的遗体最终由一位在马萨诸塞州汉密尔顿遛狗的女性发现。

Joan's remains end up being found by a woman walking her dog in Hamilton, Massachusetts.

她最初以为自己在排水沟里看到的是一个漏气的排球，但实际上那是一颗人类头骨。

Now she initially spotted what she thought was this deflated volleyball in a drainage ditch, but it was a human skull.

经过警方 extensive 搜索后，他们找到了更多骨骼，以及一个被埋在一堆木头下面的浅坟。

And after an extensive search by police, they end up locating more bones and a shallow grave buried beneath a pile of logs.

通过牙科记录确认了他们发现的就是琼。

Dental records are what confirm that it is Joan that they found.

这太奇怪了，因为她的尸体上面至少有两层木头和杂物覆盖着。

And it's so weird because there were at least two layers of logs and debris that were laid on top of her body

在两个不同的时间。

at two different times.

这意味着有人来回查看过这些痕迹。

Which means someone's been, like, coming back and checking on these.

确保她一直被藏起来。

Making sure that she stayed hidden.

但很明显，琼实际上并没有像罗伯特·邦德说的那样，被伦尼从船上扔进海里。

Now the glaringly obvious thing here is that Joan, in fact, had not been dumped in the ocean off a boat like Robert Bond said Lenny confessed to.

不过我要说的是，她的头骨右侧有一处明显的骨折。

But I will say there is a large fracture on the right side of her skull.

这与邦德的说法相符。

Which does match what Bond said.

对。

Right.

这是碰巧猜对的吗？

Was that a lucky guess?

邦德在撒谎吗？

Was Bond lying?

伦尼对邦德撒谎了吗？

Did Lenny lie to Bond?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得有趣的是她被发现的地点，以及这可能告诉我们什么。

What I think is so interesting is the area where she's found and what that could tell us.

汉密尔顿位于洛根机场东北方向约一小时车程处。

Hamilton is about an hour Northeast of Logan Airport.

她的钱包和皮夹被发现的沼泽区域，就在那个大致方向。

The marsh area where her purse and wallet were found is, like, in that general direction.

方向。

Direction.

哦。

Oh.

哦。

Oh.

所以有人在开车去汉密尔顿的路上丢弃这些东西是说得通的。

So it could make sense that someone dumped those things as they were driving to Hamilton.

而且某个人——无论是伦尼还是别人——显然心里有这样一个具体的地点，因为她的尸体被发现的地方是一条蜿蜒穿过树林的安静乡村道路。

And someone, Lenny or otherwise, clearly had this Hamilton, this, like, specific place in mind because where she was found was this quiet rural road that winds through the woods.

我的意思是，那里有房子，但这种路通常是当地人使用的，因为他们住在那里，或者因为足够熟悉这条路，知道在那里停车不会被人看到。

I mean, there are houses, but it's like the kind of road that locals use because they live there or because someone knows it well enough to feel okay stopping there without being seen.

就像

Like,

你得花足够的时间才能了解这个地方。

enough time know this.

你得特意绕路才能找到它。

You have to go out of your way to find it.

你知道，因为你清楚自己有足够的时间，比如挖个浅坟。

You're because you're know that you can have time to, like, dig a shallow grave.

对吧？

Right?

回来的时候，根本不会有人注意到你。

Come back and, like and nobody's gonna spot you.

没错。

Right.

你根本不会被发现。

Like, you're not gonna be seen.

但真正奇怪的是。

But here's what's really odd.

我们发现，在琼失踪的那个晚上，沼泽地区发生了大规模火灾，导致道路封锁和疏散。

We found out that there was a massive fire in the area around the marshes that caused roadblocks and evacuations on the night that Joan went missing.

所以，要到达那个地方根本不是一条容易的路。

So, like, even getting to that place would not have been an easy path.

我的意思是，这显然没能阻止某个人。

I mean, it clearly didn't stop someone, though.

不。

No.

但我想问的是，那个人真的是伦尼吗？

But I think my question is, like, was that someone really Lenny?

不过，琼的尸体位置对调查人员或检察官伯克来说似乎没有太大变化。

The location of Joan's body doesn't seem to change much for investigators, though, like or for ADA Burke.

我的意思是，这可能改变了他原来的计划。

I mean, it changes his plan, probably.

像，他确实是。

Like, he Yeah.

无法将此案提交审判，因为他唯一依靠的证据只是这些狱中线人的证词。

Can't take this to trial because the only thing he had to go on were the stories from these jailhouse informants.

而这些证词并不一致。

Which don't match.

不。

No.

但是，呃，算了吧。

But, like, oh, well.

在他心里，这个案子已经结了。

In his mind, the case is already closed.

至少现在他们找到她了。

Now they've at least found her.

说实话，人们可能早就料到会这样，因为他似乎一直在忽略任何他认为不利的事实。

I mean, truthfully, people probably could have seen this coming because he seemed to be disregarding anything he considered bad facts along the line.

所谓不利的事实，就是那些不符合他‘是伦尼干的’这一理论的事情。

Bad facts being those things that didn't fit his, like, Lenny did it theory.

有一段时间，人们意识到，琼失踪的那个晚上，港口一带风暴异常猛烈。

I mean, at one point, it's realized that the night Joan went missing was super stormy by, like, the harbor.

那天晚上根本不可能有人出海，伯克甚至不得不公开承认这一点。

Like, there's no way anyone could have gone out on a boat that night, and Burke had to even publicly admit that.

还有，剧情反转，琼失踪时，伦尼根本就没有他的船。

Also, plot twist, Lenny didn't even have his boat when Joan went missing.

你什么意思，他没有船？

What do you mean he didn't have his boat?

这正是我想说的，他们早在琼发现之前就忽视了那些信息。

And this is what I'm saying, like, bef so they were, like, disregarding the stuff before Jones even found.

他很早就告诉了调查人员。

He told investigators this early on.

他说舵坏了，船也沉了。

He said that the rudder was broken and it had sank.

他还为此提交了保险索赔，就像他一贯做的那样，而联邦破产审判的法庭记录显示，法官相信这艘船早在1981年8月就已沉没。

He even filed an insurance claim like he was known to do for it, and court records for a federal bankruptcy trial show that the judge in the case believed that the boat was sunk by August 1981.

这比琼失踪还早了好几个月。

This is months before Joan went missing.

但，真的是这样吗？

But, like, was it actually, though?

因为保险索赔，不管是车还是船之类的，这本来就是他和糖果一起搞的把戏。

Because insurance claims on cars and boats and things, like, that was kind of his his racket with candy.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

但当他们打捞起他的船时，故事就对上了。

But when they recovered his boat, like, it it the story lined up.

舵果然像他说的那样坏了，而且船就在他所说的地方被找到了。

The rudder was broken just like he said, and it was found right where he said it would be.

而且无论如何，我们都知道船上实际上什么都没找到。

And either way, we know nothing is actually found on the boat.

就像，没有。

Like, it's No.

就像，找到船也没什么意义。

Like, finding the boat is like, okay.

好吧。

Cool.

这根本无关紧要。

It doesn't even matter.

沉没。

Sink.

我们所有人都同意，他没有在船上杀她。

That's all we everyone agrees that he didn't kill her on the boat.

所以他们说，哦，真抱歉。

So they say, like, oh, so sorry.

我们那部分搞错了，但其他所有事情都还是对的。

We got that part wrong, but everything else is still right.

好吧。

Okay.

但其他所有事情到底指的是什么？

What is everything else, though?

没人能确切说清，但伯克继续公开坚持认为伦尼对琼的谋杀负有责任，尽管他从未被起诉。

No one can really say for sure, but Burke continues to publicly insist that Lenny is responsible for Joan's murder even though he's never been charged.

老实说，这种坚持或许能解释为什么琼案件中的嫌疑人素描从未与案件更紧密地联系起来。

Honestly, this insistence might help explain why the suspect sketch in Joan's case never became more publicly tied to the case.

我的意思是，这并不能解释我所理解的头一个月左右的情况。

I mean, it doesn't explain to me, like, the first month or so.

比如，像搜查、面谈这些以首字母缩写为线索的行动。

Like, like, initials, like, searches and interviews and stuff.

但一旦他们锁定伦尼后，就仿佛完全把他排除在外了，因为这根本不像伦尼。

But after they lock in on Lenny, it feels like they just, like, write this guy off completely because it, like, it doesn't look like Lenny.

对吧？

Right?

素描上是个白人男子，卷发，留着胡子，身高五英尺七英寸。

Sketches a white guy, curly hair, beard, five seven.

他当时四十多岁。

He was in his forties.

伦尼身高六英尺二英寸。

Lenny is six two.

他体型魁梧，没有卷发，也不戴眼镜。

He's heavy set, didn't have curly hair, didn't wear glasses.

眼镜。

Glasses.

这家伙根本不可能被忽视。

Like, dude's a hard guy to miss.

但他可能是另一位出租车司机吧？

He could have been the other cab driver, though?

也许吧。

Maybe.

但当你深入调查时，就连这个说法也变得模糊不清了。

But even that gets a little murky when you dig in.

那位打电话举报、对伦尼有不愉快经历的线人告诉我们，她听说街上有传言说他开那辆无证出租车。

So the tipster who called and had that bad experience with Lenny told us that she heard word on the street was that he was driving that unlicensed cab.

对吧？

Right?

我们找不到任何证据支持这一点。

We couldn't find any evidence of that.

当他搭载那位被他袭击的搭便车者时，他并没有自称是出租车司机。

When he picked up the hitchhiker that he assaulted, he didn't introduce himself as a cab driver.

在邦德的陈述中，他也从未声称莱尼开过出租车。

And in Bond's statements, he never claims that Lenny drove a cab either.

等等。

Wait.

那他是怎么让琼上车的呢？

Then what's the story of how he got Joan in his car?

只是说莱尼在机场接了她。

Just that Lenny picked her up at the airport.

但他并没有明确说，他当时开的是出租车，或者假装自己是出租车司机之类的。

But, like, he doesn't specifically say, like, he was driving a cab or pretended to be a cab driver or whatever.

据我所知，他并没有提供更多相关的细节。

As far as I can tell, he didn't really give other specifics around that.

而且，这对我来说也是一个大问题。

And, like, it it is a big question for me too.

那伦尼是怎么让她上车的呢？

Like, well, how would Lenny get her in the car?

但我觉得没人追问过他这些细节。

But I don't think anyone was pressing him for those details.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

好的。

Okay.

假设伦尼真的在做这种无标识的出租车生意。

So say Lenny was doing this, like, unmarked cab thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有件事我一直想不通。

There's something that, like, just I cannot make sense.

她的行李。

Her luggage.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，如果他假装是出租车司机，我不认为他会让她

Like, if he's pretending to be a cab driver, I don't think he convinces her to

检查

check

把行李拿下来，或者自己下车去处理，而把她一个人留在车里。

her luggage or, like, gets out and does it and leaves her in the car.

那样的话，肯定会立刻引起怀疑。

Like, that would have been an instant red flag.

确实会。

It would have been.

而且，我的意思是，我们知道 whoever 检查了行李，并没有立刻处理。

And, like, here's I mean, we know whoever checked it didn't do it right away.

对吧？

Right?

比如，第二天上午10点半发生的。

Like, happened the next day at 10:30AM.

所以理论上，一种可能是有人接走了琼，要么在汉密尔顿杀了她，要么之后才动手。

So theoretically, like, one scenario could be like someone picks up Joan, they kill her either in Hamilton or then they take her thereafter.

不管她是否已经被埋，她的行李都被开回了南边，送到波士顿市中心的车站，然后被遗弃在那里。

And whether she's already buried or not, her luggage is driven back, like back south to Downtown Boston and then left at the station.

或者，琼在10点半时还活着，她自己出于某种无法解释的原因这么做了。

Or Joan is still alive at 10:30 and she did it for some unknown inexplicable reason.

如果真是这样，那她就和伦尼没关系了。

And and if that's the case, then she's not with Lenny.

没错。

Right.

她和这个男人根本没有任何关联。

Like, she had zero ties to this man.

他对于她来说会是个陌生人。

He would have been a stranger to her.

所以我认为我真的很相信是别人干的。

So I think I I really believe someone else did it.

我越想越觉得，无论谁干的，都希望这件事被发现，但可能并不想捉弄人。

And the more I think about it, I keep going back, I think whoever did it wanted it to be found, but maybe not to play with people.

也许他们想让情况看起来像是琼在某个地方上了公交车。

Maybe they wanted it to look like Joan was go like, caught a bus somewhere.

想想看。

Like, think about it.

之前我说过，她的钱包很可能是在去汉密尔顿的路上被丢掉的。

Like, earlier, I said that her wallet could have easily been tossed on the way to Hamilton.

但如果是在回来的路上呢？

But what what if it was on the way back?

假设琼在汉密尔顿被杀了。

Like, say Jones killed in Hamilton.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就直接把她的东西扔了。

Just, like, ditch her stuff.

对吧？

Right?

为什么还要特意开那么远的车回来？

Why drive all the way back?

如果你真要这么做，为什么不把她的所有东西放在一起？

And if you're going to, why not put all her stuff together?

他们把钱包和手提包从行李中分开，这样看起来就像是她随身带走了这些东西。

They separate the purse and the wallet from the luggage because that kinda makes it look like she took those things with her.

如果你跟她毫无关系，为什么要制造她离开的假象？

And why would you need to make it look like she took off if you have zero ties to her?

如果你认识她的话。

If you knew her.

尤其是你最后被看到和她在一起的时候。

Especially if you were last seen with her.

等等。

Wait.

你不是说他们在她的行李箱上找到了指纹吗？

Didn't you say they got fingerprints from her suitcase?

我的意思是，我们知道这些指纹是谁的吗？

Like, do we know whose those are?

哦，还有另一件事。

Oh, so here's another thing.

这些不是伦尼的。

Those are not Lenny's.

他们早在1982年就拿他和这些指纹做了比对。

They tested him against those right away in 1982.

不匹配。

Not a match.

我不知道这些指纹是否曾被录入现代数据库。

I don't know if they've ever been entered into a modern database.

我们非常希望能询问，但埃塞克斯县地方检察官办公室没有回应我们寻求评论的请求。

We would have loved to ask, but the Essex County District Attorney's Office didn't respond to our requests for comment.

但我知道这些年来，他们至少拿这些指纹和另一个人比对过。

But I know they tested them against at least one other person over the years.

但无论那个人是谁，也不是匹配的。

But whoever that was, that wasn't a match either.

我的意思是，我觉得可以从这里开始。

I mean, I say start there.

对吧？

Right?

这看起来可能非常重要。

Like, it it seems like it could be pretty freaking important.

有可能。

Could be.

我的意思是，与此同时，它还来自一个由其他人处理的机场。

I mean, like, at the same time, it also came from an airport where it's being handled by other people.

一个陌生人可能碰过它，以为是自己的包。

A stranger could have touched it thinking it was their bad.

它可能根本就不是那件东西。

Like, it might not be the thing.

而且，有人把它放进了储物柜，但之后还得有人把它从储物柜里取出来，放进存储区，然后在存储区里分类，再转移到更深层的存储。

Well, and even, like, someone put it in the locker, but then someone had to take it out of the locker, put it into storage, and they were sorting it in like, in storage to put into further storage.

那就是在

That's where

我只想祈祷，他们真的检查过灰狗巴士的工作人员之类的。

I'm like, I pray to god they, like, checked the people who worked at the Greyhound bus or whatever.

但我也不确定。

But, like, I don't know.

就算我们确实如此。

Like, even if it if if we yes.

它可能没什么关联，但感觉起来好像确实有可能是什么东西。

It might not be connected, but, like, that sure feels like It could something be.

是的。

Yeah.

感觉像是你想要了解或排除掉的东西。

It feels like something you want to, like,

知道或排除掉。

know or rule out.

当他们找到她的遗骸时，有没有发现什么有用的物品？

Did they get anything usable when they found her remains?

比如，除了她的遗骸之外，还有没有其他东西和她在一起？

Like, was there anything other than her remains with her?

到那时候，已经过去太久了。

By that point, it had been so long.

我觉得他们没找到多少东西。

I don't think they got much.

我的意思是，我知道现场找到了几根头发，但那些可能是琼斯的。

I mean, I know there were like a few hairs found at the scene, but like, I mean, those may have been Jones.

我们无法确认这些头发是否真的接受过检测。

We couldn't confirm if those have ever even been tested.

她是在1990年被发现的，当时他们已经有了一个嫌疑人。

I mean, it was 1990 when she was found, and they had a suspect.

所以他们连头发都没和伦尼比对过？

So they didn't compare the hair to Lenny even?

哦，没有。

Oh, no.

他们做过比对了。

They did that.

那不是他的。

It wasn't his.

这就是为什么

That's why

所以答案可能是

like That's why the answer is like Could

是琼的。

be Joan's.

是的。

Yeah.

很可能是琼的。

Probably Joan's.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这让我陷入了思维定势。

So it's like giving tunnel vision for me.

是的。

Yeah.

我猜没人急着开棺再找其他能用的证据吧。

Like, I assume no one's racing to exhume her to see if there's anything else they could use.

我不认为他们会这么做。

I don't think they would be.

我的意思是，再次强调，根本就没有这个选项，因为琼的遗体被发现后，她的家人悄悄而迅速地将她火化了，这实际上在技术上是违法的。

I mean, again but I, there's not even an option to do that because after Joan's body was found, her family quietly and quickly cremated her, which actually, technically is illegal.

我本来正要这么说，因为这个案子目前仍是开放的。

I was actually about to say that, like because the case is open.

是的。

Yeah.

从技术上讲，它仍然未结案。

It's technically still open.

根据马萨诸塞州的法律，你不能火化属于未结案调查的遗体。

And according to Massachusetts law, you can't cremate a body that's part of an open investigation.

我听到了。

And I listen.

我说这个并不是想暗示有什么不妥。

I don't say that to insinuate anything shady.

他们已经为她的离世哀悼了很长时间。

They had been grieving her loss for a very long time.

他们可能根本不知道这一点。

Like, they probably didn't even know that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但负责你案件的调查员本该知道这一点。

But it seems like something the investigator who was working your case should have known.

但我觉得他们太执着于自己的理论了，当他们决定要火化时，没人阻止他们。

But I think they were so set on their theory that, like, when they're like, we're gonna have a cream, nobody stopped them.

琼的家人相信是伦尼干的吗？

Does Joan's family believe that it was Lenny?

我们没能联系上她的任何直系亲属。

Well, we couldn't talk to any of her immediate family.

她的父母已经去世，我们联系过她的兄弟姐妹，但他们还没回我们。

So her parents have passed, and we reached out to her siblings, but they haven't gotten back to us.

不过，我们能联系到的是琼的前嫂子伊芙。

The person we were able to talk to, though, was Joan's former sister-in-law, Eve.

所以她在1981年琼失踪时嫁给了琼的哥哥，而当琼在1990年被发现时，他们仍然保持着婚姻关系。

So she was married to Joan's brother back in '81 when Joan went missing, and they were still married when Joan was found in 1990.

据她所说，琼的父母和哥哥一直重复着同一个说法。

According to her, Joan's parents and brother kept telling the same story.

伦尼杀了琼。

Lenny killed Joan.

但她从来就不相信这个说法。

But that's a story that she never really believed.

我的意思是，这种不信任甚至导致了她和丈夫之间的裂痕。

I mean, so much so it's part of what caused a rift with her and her husband.

他们后来离婚了，而她把重新引起人们对琼案件的关注当作自己毕生的使命。

And they've since divorced, and she's, like, made it her life's mission to get people asking questions about Joan's case again.

她一直在自行调查，甚至聘请了一名私家侦探，帮助她调取档案、采访证人并审阅庭审记录。

And she's been doing her own investigation, even hired a PI to help her pull records and interview witnesses and review trial transcripts.

她看到了我们常常陷入的思维盲区。

And she sees a lot of the tunnel vision I think that we do.

她认同玛丽一家的感受，认为她的案件很大程度上是围绕琼的。

And she validates the way that Marie's family feels, that her case was a lot about Joan.

比如，他们甚至搜查过坎迪的住所。

Like, apparently, they even did a search of Candy's place.

尽管坎迪与玛丽的案件有关，但调查人员希望找到的物品却都与琼有关。

Again, Candy's related to Marie's case, But the items that investigators hope to find were ones tied to Joan.

那么，伊芙对玛丽的案件持什么看法？

So what's Eve's stance on Marie's case?

她认为伦尼只犯了其中一桩，而不是两桩？

Does she think Lenny did one but not the other?

或者

Or

嗯，她觉得这两起调查都留下了漏洞，不过琼的案件中更多。

Well, she feels like both investigations left loose ends, albeit a lot more in Jones.

但即使在玛丽的案件中，她仍然有一些疑问，主要是关于她的男友大卫。

But even in Marie's case, she still has questions, mostly about David, the boyfriend.

我真希望能告诉你警方与他交谈的很多细节。

And I wish I could tell you a lot about the conversations police had with him.

我本该知道的，因为他们一共对他进行了二十多次访谈。

I should be able to because they did over 20 interviews with the guy.

哦。

Oh.

但当主审侦探在伦尼的审判中出庭时，他承认自己没有记录任何一次这二十多次访谈的内容。

But when the lead detective took the stand in Lenny's trial, he admitted that he didn't take any reports on any of those 20 interviews.

什么？

What?

但我敢打赌那些访谈一定很有启发性，因为他在她遇害后表现得非常古怪。

But I bet they were illuminating because he was just acting straight up odd after her murder.

比如，在玛丽的尸体被确认后的周一早上，家人前往大卫家取一件葬礼上要穿的裙子。

Like, on Monday morning, shortly after Marie's body was identified, family members went to David's house to pick up a dress for the wake.