神秘死亡事件：罗威娜·威尔金森·扎帕拉克

有足够的怀疑让他与梅洛迪的案件永远联系在一起。

there is enough suspicion that he, but kind of forever, stays linked to Melody's case.

甚至在他的维基百科页面上，梅洛迪也被列为可能的受害者之一。

Even on the Wikipedia page for him, she is listed as a possible victim.

罗威娜也是吗？

Is Rowena?

不是。

No.

因为即使护林员清楚地知道罗威娜的死亡，并至少短暂地考虑过这是凶杀案

Because even after Rangers clearly were aware of Rowena's death and had to have at least briefly considered it a homicide

才能被纳入这次讨论。

it to even be in this conversation.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

这仍被官方认定为自杀案，且从未与罗伯特·查尔斯·布朗有关联。

It is still officially a suicide and has never been connected to Robert Charles Brown.

但即使没有官方关联，

But even if not officially connected,

因为

for

多年后，乔莉塔仍在怀疑这是否可能是真的。

years after this, Jolita wondered if it could be true.

所以，在她父母去世后，她想，好吧。

So, again, after her parents passed away, she's like, okay.

你知道，现在是时候一劳永逸地查明真相了。

You know, now is the time to find out once and for all.

这就是她联系我们的原因。

And that's why she reached out to us.

而我们的记者珍娜·梅尔发现的情况可能证明乔莉塔既对又错。

And what our reporter Jenna Mel found may prove that Jolita was right and wrong.

是的。

Yes.

我们相信罗温娜是被谋杀的，而且我们也认为她的案件实际上可能与梅洛迪的案件有关联。

We believe Rowena was murdered, and we too think that her case might be connected to Melody's actually.

但我们并不确信罗伯特·查尔斯·布朗是最可能的嫌疑人。

But we're not convinced that Robert Charles Brown is the most likely suspect.

还有另一个与这两位女性有关联的人，我们认为他更加可疑。

There's someone else that had connections to the two women who we find far more interesting.

让我从调查的最初开始讲起，这样你们就能了解我们是如何得出这个结论的。

Let me start at the beginning of our investigation so you know how we got to where we did.

当我们开始调查这个案件时，我想从执法部门的理论入手，他们认为这是一起自杀事件。

So when we started looking at this case, I wanted to begin with law enforcement's theory, which was that this was a suicide.

我和乔莉塔一样注意到了所有相同的危险信号，但至少让我们提出这个问题。

I see all the same red flags as Jolita, but, like, let's at least ask the question.

有没有可能是罗温娜死于自慰性窒息？

Is it possible that Rowena died by autoerotic asphyxiation?

我觉得奇怪的一点是她脖子上还戴着那条扭曲的珠链。

One thing that I found odd was the fact that she still had the twisted beads necklace on.

尸检报告还指出，那条项链在她颈部留下了压痕。

And the autopsy report also says that the necklace made, like, impressions on her neck.

当时调查人员认为这是因为绳子压在项链上造成的，但我觉得这很可疑。

Now the investigators were thinking that was because the rope was laying over the necklace, which, like, to me raised a flag.

试想一下，如果你要在脖子上套绳子，肯定会先取下这条大珠子项链吧。

Like, when you take off this big beaded necklace, if you were gonna put a rope around your neck.

对。

Yeah.

我说的'大'可不是指那种精致的项链。

And, like, when I say big, this isn't like a dainty necklace.

这种绞珠项链（如果没人记得的话）是这么粗的款式。

Twisted beads are if no one remembers them, are like this thick necklace.

在80年代很流行，你可以把多股珠子混搭，真的把它们全部绞在一起。

They were a big thing back in the eighties, but you could, like, mix and match lots of these strands of beads, like and literally twist them all together.

那么有没有可能是被项链勒死，而不是绳子呢？

So is it possible that she was strangled with the necklace and not the rope then?

也许吧。

Maybe.

没看到尸检照片很难下定论。

It's hard to say without seeing any autopsy photos.

但如果是那样的话，在我看来就是谋杀，而不是他们当时所称的'自慰性自杀'。

But in that case, I mean, it would be a homicide to me, not a suicide by masturbation, which is the term they had for it back then.

现在叫'自慰性窒息'，其实是一回事。

Like today, it's autoerotic asphyxiation, but same thing.

但他们就是这么称呼的。

But that's what they're calling it.

根据我听说过的案例，大多数自慰性窒息案例都与男性有关。

Now I felt like at least in the cases that I've heard of, most autoerotic asphyxiation cases are associated with men.

但稍作研究后，我发现女性中确实也有发生，只是有记录的案例非常少。

But after a little research, I found that it does happen among women as well, but there have been very few documented cases.

根据我在《美国法医与病理学杂志》上读到的一项研究，男女比例大约是50:1。

The ratio is like fifty men to one woman according to a study that I read in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.

1980年之前，仅有两例女性因此类方式死亡的记录，随后在1980年出现了第三例。

And prior to 1980, there were only two cases of women who died this way ever recorded and then a third in 1980.

所以当时这种情况极为罕见。

So super rare at the time.

我们是否了解她是否对这类行为有兴趣？

And do we know anything about whether she was, like, into that type of thing?

或者说

Or So here's

问题是这样的。

the thing.

罗威娜当时其实已婚但已分居。

So Rowena was actually married at the time but separated.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们采访了她当时的丈夫。

And we talked to her then husband.

他叫托马斯。

His name's Thomas.

乔丽塔也是。

So did Jolita.

他告诉乔丽塔，他和罗温娜从未做过那种事。

And he told Jolita that he and Rowena never did anything like that.

显然，她去世时他们已经分居，所以我们无法确定她是否在他不知情时尝试过其他方式。

Now, obviously, they weren't together when she died, so we can't say for sure if she ever tried anything different without him.

好吧。

Okay.

等等。

But hang on.

她丈夫被调查过吗？

Was her husband ever looked in into?

他从未被列为嫌疑人调查，因为

Well, he's never investigated as a suspect because

当时那里没有

there was there was no one

可调查的对象

to look into.

这不是凶杀案

It's not a homicide.

即使在罗伯特·布朗事件后，她的案子也从未重新调查或重新审理

Even after the Robert Brown stuff, like, her case is never reopened, never reinvestigated.

不过我要说，即使他们调查过她丈夫，我认为他也不会有什么线索

I will say though, even if they had looked into her husband, I don't think he had any answers.

我知道乔丽塔从未怀疑过他，而且他对我们很坦诚

I know Jolita never considered him suspicious, and he was forthcoming with us.

事实证明她去世时，他住在一小时车程外的地方

Turns out at the time that she died, he was living an hour away.

综上所述，我认为这既不是自杀也不是意外，而且她的前夫与此无关

So for all the reasons you just heard, I don't think this is a suicide or even an accident, and I don't think her ex was involved.

于是我们调查了Jolita怀疑的那个男人，罗伯特·查尔斯·布朗。

So we looked into the man that Jolita suspected, Robert Charles Brown.

有趣的是，Jolita和Rowena的丈夫Thomas都记得，Rowena去世前一年左右曾和一个叫Rob的男人约会过。

Interestingly, Jolita and Rowena's husband, Thomas, both remember that Rowena was dating a guy named Rob about a year before she died.

这个Rob甚至在她与丈夫分居期间，短暂地和她一起住在德克萨斯州的圣马科斯。

This Rob even lived with her briefly out in San Marcos, Texas when she split with her husband.

所以我们当然会问，你还记得他的姓氏吗？

So, of course, we're like, do you remember his last name?

对。

Right.

听着。

And listen.

他们俩都说，虽然听起来可能有点疯狂，但我们都记得布朗这个姓氏。

Both of them were like, know, this is gonna sound crazy, but we remember the last name Brown.

乔莉塔说她见过这个叫罗伯的男朋友一次。

And Jolita said she met this boyfriend Rob once.

她看了连环杀手罗伯特·布朗的照片后说，看起来有点像他。

So she looked at a picture of serial killer Robert Brown and was like, it kinda looks like him.

天啊，但乔丽塔和托马斯是最早告诉我们的人，他们说听着，请别完全相信我们的记忆。

Oh my But both Jolita and Thomas are the first ones who told us, like, listen, please do not trust our memories a 100% on this one.

这么多年过去，记忆很可能已经变得混乱了。

Like, it is very possible things have gotten twisted up over the years.

而且罗温娜去世前几个月还在和这个叫罗布的男友约会，他们当时住在完全不同的城市。

And Rowena was dating this boyfriend Rob, like, several months before her death, and they were living together in a totally different town.

所以感觉有点牵强。

So it feels like a bit of a stretch.

而且罗伯特·布朗现在还在世。

And Robert Brown is, like, still around.

是啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

他至今仍因那些其他谋杀案被关在监狱里。

Like, he is in prison for those other murders, like, to this day.

正如你从我们做过的罗伯特·查尔斯·布朗那期节目中所知，我们的记者曾给他写过信。

And as you know from the Robert Charles Brown episode we did, our reporters wrote to him.

当珍·阿梅尔为此事写信给他时，她直截了当地问他：你和罗威娜·扎皮拉克的死有关吗？

And when Jen Amell wrote to him for this one, she just asked him point blank, did you have anything to do with Rowena Zapilak's death?

而他回信了。

And he wrote back.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我帮不了你。

I can't help you.

我对你询问的这个人一无所知。

I know nothing about the person you are inquiring about.

如果我知道任何情况，我一定会告诉你。

If I knew anything at all, I would tell you.

我已年老，生命将尽，没有理由隐瞒任何事情。

I am old and near the end of my life and have no reason to conceal anything.

我真的很抱歉。

I'm truly sorry.

如果你能寄些钱给我，我将不胜感激。

If you would send me some funds, I would greatly appreciate it.

提前感谢你，RC·布朗。

Thank you in advance, RC Brown.

显然，珍解释了我们不向消息来源付费的原则，并追问了他一个问题。

Obviously, Jen explained that we don't pay sources and asked him a follow-up question.

你杀了梅洛迪·布什吗？

Did you kill Melody Bush?

而罗伯特回信的标题是：'没钱免谈'。

And Robert wrote back with the subject line, quote, no pay, no play.

别再用那套老掉牙的借口搪塞了。

Do not hide behind that tired old evasion.

法庭多年前就废除了那种蹩脚的借口。

The courts did away with that lame excuse many years ago.

如果你有兴趣，可以寄些钱给我作为生日礼物或其他理由。

If you are interested, send me some funds for my birthday or some other reason.

再见，布朗先生。

Adios, mister Brown.

所以罗伯特说他并不认识罗威娜，而且除非我们付钱，否则他不会透露任何关于梅洛迪的信息。

So Robert says that he doesn't know Rowena, and he won't say anything about Melody unless we pay him.

但请原谅我无法仅凭一个连环杀手的一面之词就相信他。

But excuse me if I don't just take a serial killer's word for it.

没错。

Right.

并不是说他不可能犯下其中一起案件，但我觉得两起都是他所为实在太牵强，因为作案手法截然不同。

And not that he couldn't have done one or the other, but I feel like both is such a stretch because the MO is so, so different.

我明白。

I know.

这就像涉及到他时最难理解的部分。

It's just like the hard part to wrap your head around when it comes to him.

不同的作案手法实际上可能是我认为凶手就是他的原因之一，因为，就像我们其他案件里看到的那样，这家伙的作案方式五花八门。

The different MOs might actually be one of the reasons I say it was him because, like, I mean, you know, like now, like from our other episode, dude was all over the place.

比如，他声称用鞋带勒死了一个受害者，又说另一个受害者是因为他用了氯仿而死亡。

Like, the one victim he claimed to have strangled with shoelaces claims another one died because he used chloroform.

他还提到过用刀刺。

He talks about stabbing.

他谈论过枪击、钝器创伤。

He talks about shooting, blunt force trauma.

可以说，只要是你能想到的恐怖手段，罗伯特都声称他干过。

Like, you name the horror, Robert says that he's done it.

所以不。

So no.

就像，没有可以追溯到他身上的标志性手法。

Like, no calling card to link back to him.

就像，他的标志性手法

Like, his calling card

就是没有，像，特征性的手法

is like No, like, signature.

是啊

Yeah.

听着

And listen.

长话不说短

Long story, not short.

就像我们另一期节目里讲过的长故事

Like, just long story that we did another episode on.

我直接说重点吧

I'm gonna cut to the chase here.

我们越是调查罗伯特和他的罪行、行踪，他的作案手法或者说缺乏手法

The more we looked into Robert and his crimes and his movements, his MO or lack Yeah.

我和我们的记者逐渐认为，罗伯特不太可能与罗威娜的谋杀案有关。

Of an Me and our reporters came to feel that it was unlikely that he had anything to do with Rowena's murder.

但再次强调，这里确实发生了一起谋杀案。

But again, there was a murder here.

于是我们开始思考，如果不是他，那还有可能是谁干的？

So we started to ask, if not him, then who else could have done it?

就在那时，我们的记者珍回到了案件起点。

And that's when our reporter Jen went back to the beginning.

因为如果从未有人调查过，那么所有线索自然都会被遗漏。

Because if no one ever investigated, then every clue was missed by default.

就在最初的调查阶段，她发现了一些让我们震惊的事情——如果不是她深入研究梅洛迪的案件并试图将所有线索与布朗联系起来，这些证据可能永远被忽略。

And right there, at the beginning, she found something that shocked us, something that would have been totally missed if she hadn't just been deep in Melody's case trying to connect everything to Brown.

我们发现，梅洛迪那晚去雄鹿俱乐部之前，正如我所说，她正与丈夫和另外两人在一起。

You see, we found out that before Melody went to Stag Club that night, she, like I said, was with her husband and those two other people.

他们都在汽车旅馆房间里聚会。

They're all partying in the motel room.

我们知道梅洛迪因为某些事开始和她丈夫争吵，然后她怒气冲冲地离开了。

We know Melody starts fighting with her husband about something and then she storms out.

然后丈夫告诉调查人员他去睡觉了，直到早上六点左右才醒来，发现妻子一直没有回来。

Then the husband told investigators that he went to sleep, didn't wake up till like six in the morning, found his wife never came back.

再说一次，我认为丈夫在人们眼中一直都很可疑，据我所知，他从未被正式排除嫌疑。

And again, I think the husband was always, like, sus to people and as far as I know, never officially cleared as a suspect.

但后来人们就有点，怎么说呢，把他和那天晚上发生的一切都抛在脑后了，尤其是当罗伯特·布朗成为焦点之后。

But then people kinda just, like, forget about him and, like, everything that night once Robert Brown is in the picture.

但引起Jen注意的是，当晚在汽车旅馆与他们在一起的另外两人中有一个叫Cooper Cherry的男人。

But what caught Jen's attention was one of the two other people who were with them that night at the motel was a guy named Cooper Cherry.

Cherry这个名字并不常见，它让Jen想起了什么，因为她花了大量时间调查Rowena的案件。

Now Cherry is not a name that you read, like, every day, and it rang a bell for Jen because she spent so much time digging into Rowena's story.

而正是Rowena的朋友——住在走廊对面的Ruby Cherry发现了Rowena的尸体。

And it was Rowena's friend, Ruby Cherry, from across the hall who found Rowena dead.

在这个小镇上，这样的巧合未免太过蹊跷，于是她调取了Ruby的相关记录。

Little bit too big of a coincidence in such a small town, so she pulled records for Ruby.

结果发现，她曾与库珀结过婚。

Turns out, she was actually once married to Cooper.

于是我们重新查阅了案卷中鲁比关于罗威娜死亡当晚的书面陈述，结果发现她也与库珀·切里有过交集。

So we went back to Ruby's written statement in the case file from the night that Rowena died, and it turns out she also crossed paths with Cooper Cherry.

你在开玩笑吧。

You're kidding.

没有。

No.

我没开玩笑。

I'm not.

在她的陈述中，鲁比详细描述了罗威娜死前一天发生的事。

So in her statement, Ruby basically went into detail about what happened the day before Rowena died.

她说在她们出去聚会前，罗威娜陪鲁比把鲁比的儿子送到库珀那里。

She said that before they went out to party, Rowena went with Ruby to drop off Ruby's son with Cooper.

那时他们已经离婚了，但毕竟那是孩子的父亲。

They're divorced by this point, but, like, that's his dad.

所以我们知道那晚库珀和罗温娜至少在一个地方出现过。

So we know Cooper and Rowena were in the same place at least once that night.

就是短暂地打了个照面而已。

Now briefly, whatever, like just crossing paths.

然后罗温娜和露比就出门了。

So Rowena and Ruby go out.

她们去了雄鹿俱乐部。

They're at the stag club.

和一群认识的人玩，露比还列出了所有人的名字。

They hang out with a bunch of people they know, and Ruby actually lists all of these people.

没发生什么异常情况。

Nothing weird happened.

她说她们凌晨4点左右一起回家了。

She said they went home together around 4AM.

两人都住在马具店楼上的小公寓里。

The two of them live in these small apartments above that saddle shop.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后露比说早上时，杰西卡——她们在烧烤店工作时的经理，也是帮忙照看罗温娜儿子的人——来敲门叫醒了她。

And then Ruby says that in the morning, Jessica, who was their manager at the barbecue place, she's the one who was watching Rowena's son, she comes knocking on her door and wakes her up.

我想应该是来找罗温娜的，因为她带着罗温娜的儿子。

Like, I think looking for Rowena because she's got her son.

但露比告诉她罗温娜可能还在补觉，因为她们昨晚很晚才回来。

But Ruby told her that Rowena was probably still sleeping it off because they, like, got in so late.

于是杰西卡就走了。

So Jessica leaves.

这之后不久，根据露比的证词说她去保姆家接自己的孩子了。

Sometime after this, Ruby's statement says that she goes to pick up her kid from a sitter's house.

也就是说前一晚或当天早上某个时候，库珀需要找人帮他照看孩子。

So at some point the night before or that morning, Cooper needed someone else to watch their kid for him.

他人去哪儿了？

Where was he?

我不知道。

I don't know.

她怎么知道要去保姆那里接孩子，而不是从库珀那儿接？

How did she know to go get her kid from a sitter and not from Cooper?

我不知道。

I don't know.

但鲁比接完孩子后，回到了库珀家，发现他有个朋友在那儿，一个叫巴特·摩尔的家伙。

But after Ruby picks up their kid, she goes back to Cooper's house, and he's got a buddy over, this guy named Bart Moore.

有意思的是，如果你回顾鲁比给出的那晚和她及罗威娜一起在酒吧的人员名单，巴特·摩尔赫然在列。

Interesting because if you look back at the list that Ruby gave of the people who were out with her and Rowena at the bar that night, Bart Moore is right there.

但她没提到库珀当时和他们在一起。

But she didn't mention that Cooper was out with them.

对吧？

Right?

对。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

她明确列出了所有外出的人。

She explicitly lists everyone who was out.

库珀的名字不在那个名单上。

Cooper's name is not on that list.

所以她提到第二天早上在库珀家时，库珀和巴特问她能否去她公寓用淋浴，因为他们那里没有热水。

So she says that when she is at Cooper's that next morning, Cooper and Bart ask if they can go to her apartment to use her shower because they didn't have any hot water.

大家都说，行啊，随便。

And everybody's like, sure, whatever.

她比他们先离开，回到公寓楼时正好碰上杰西卡第二次回来找罗温娜。

She leaves ahead of them and got back to her building just as Jessica was coming back the second time looking for Rowena.

就在这时他们破门而入，发现了罗温娜的尸体。

And this is when they break in and they discover Rowena's body.

等等。

Wait.

这是不是意味着库珀和巴特当时就在马鞍店楼上，当他们发现罗威娜的时候？

Does that mean that Cooper and Bart were there, like, above the saddle shop when they found Rowena?

我不知道。

I don't know.

她的陈述中再没提到关于他们的其他信息。

She doesn't say anything else about them in her statement.

我甚至不知道库珀和巴尔后来到底有没有去洗澡，但这让我们回想起乔丽塔提到的小细节——她第二天清理罗威娜公寓时注意到罗威娜的淋浴间是湿的？

I don't even know if Cooper and Barr ever went to take showers, but it made us think back to that little detail that Jolita said she noticed when she was cleaning out Rowena's apartment the next day that Rowena's shower was wet?

对。

Right.

所以，假设库珀或巴特确实去洗澡了，但用的是罗威娜的淋浴间呢？

So, like, what if Cooper or Bart did go use the shower but at Rowena's instead?

可罗威娜不是在库珀和巴特要求来洗澡的时候就已经死了吗？

But wasn't Rowena already dead by the time Cooper and Bart were asking to come shower?

是的。

Yes.

但这只是假设鲁比的陈述完全准确的情况下。

But that is if we're just assuming that Ruby's account is totally accurate.

我是说，就在我们掌握的几页报告里，鲁比的说法就有其他不一致之处。

I mean, there are other inconsistencies in Ruby's story even in the few pages of reports we have.

明确一下，严格来说有三个机构参与其中。

And just to be clear, so there are technically three agencies involved.

有县警、治安法官，稍后还有德州骑警。

So you have the sheriffs, the justice of the peace, and a little later, the Texas rangers.

而且他们并不是都在开展新的调查。

And it's not like they're all opening up new investigations.

所有这些陈述都发生在最初的约二十五

All of these statements happen in the first, like, twenty five

天。

days.

然后被，像是，放进同一个文件里。

And get, like, put in the same file.

是啊。

Yeah.

用她自己的话说，警长报告中的陈述称鲁比是在早上9:30被杰西卡叫醒的。

So in her own words, the statement put in the sheriff's report says that Ruby woke up or she's woken up by Jessica at 09:30 in the morning.

她去了保姆家接孩子，然后返回库珀家。

She goes to the babysitter's house, gets her kid, then back to Cooper's.

但治安法官在她的调查记录中写道鲁比是上午11点去上班，而不是去库珀家。

But the justice of the peace writes in her inquest that Ruby goes to work at 11AM, not to Cooper's house.

而在德州骑警的调查中，警官称鲁比是在9点被杰西卡叫醒，然后回到自己公寓继续睡觉。

Then in a Texas Ranger inquest, the officer says Ruby was woken up at 9AM by Jessica and then went back inside her apartment to sleep.

完全没有提到去上班、去库珀家或保姆家的事。

Nothing about going to work or to Cooper's or the sitters.

为什么这些说法会不一致呢？

So why are the stories different?

我是说，如果这些机构都没有准确记录她的陈述，是不是说明他们的警务工作太马虎了？

I mean, is it sloppy police work by all these agencies if they're not, like, recording her statement correctly?

这也是一种可能。

Like, That's an option.

但也可能意味着鲁比对不同机构讲述了不同版本的故事。

But it also could mean that Ruby was telling different versions of her story to different agencies.

如果她确实这么做了，为什么？

And if she did, why?

有没有其他人的陈述可以对比？比如当晚在场的其他人或和鲁比在一起的杰西卡？

Are there statements from other people, like anyone else to compare it to?

比如那晚在场的其他人，或是发现她和鲁比在一起的杰西卡？

Like like the other people who were out that night or Jessica who found her with with Ruby?

警长报告显示他们曾询问过其他人，但报告中没有包含其他目击者的陈述。

So the sheriff's report says that they talked to other people, but no other witness statements were included.

所以我们开始联系相关人员。

So we started calling people.

我们试图联系名单上所有与露比有关的人。

We were trying to reach out to all of the people specifically on Ruby's list.

我们的记者珍联系到了一位名叫雷德·穆赫兰的男子，那晚他和他们在一起。

And our reporter, Jen, got in touch with a guy named Red Mulholland, who was out with them that night.

他告诉我们他认为那晚库珀和他们在一起。

And he told us he thinks Cooper was out with them that night.

好的。

Okay.

但露比为什么要隐瞒这点？

But why would Ruby leave that out?

一种可能是她忘了或无意中漏掉了库珀的名字。

One option is that she forgot or accidentally left his name out.

另一种可能是她撒谎了，因为她不想让警方知道库珀在场。

Another option is that she lied because she didn't want police to know that Cooper was there.

不过容我唱个反调，这可是我最爱的角色。

Just to play devil's advocate though, my favorite role.

我知道。

I know.

如果Ruby明知故犯地撒谎是因为发生了什么事，她想为Cooper打掩护，那为什么她不干脆在自己的陈述中完全省略关于Cooper和Bart以及淋浴的那些内容呢？

If Ruby knowingly lied because something happened and she was trying to cover for Cooper, why wouldn't she just leave out all that stuff about Cooper and Bart and the shower in her own statements?

比如，为什么还要把这些内容重新加回故事里？

Like, why add them back into the story at all?

我明白。

I know.

也许是因为那才是真相，而她后来在陈述中忘记了这部分，因为那是她哀悼过程中最不重要的部分。

And like, maybe it's because that's the truth and like, she just forgotten later statements because that's like the least interesting part of her mourning.

或者如果后来的陈述是准确的，他们确实没来过，我也不知道。

Or if the later statements are accurate and they like didn't come over, I don't know.

我不知道为什么要编造这个，除非你想给他们一个出现在那附近的正当理由。

I don't know why you make up that unless you wanted to give them, like, an innocent reason for being seen around there.

但那样的话你会认为她会坚持这个说法。

But then you would think you would stick to it.

对。

Right.

所以，这说不通。

So, like, it doesn't make sense.

如果我们真要质疑鲁比，这让我想起了乔尔，就是罗温娜工作的那家烧烤店的老板。

And if we're gonna question Ruby at all, this got me thinking about Joel, the owner of the barbecue place where Rowena worked at.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是他告诉警长她之前有过吸毒过量，这强化了他们自杀的说法。

He's the one that told the sheriff that she overdosed before, which bolstered their suicide narrative.

别忘了，鲁比也在那里工作过。

Well, remember, Ruby worked there too.

所以关于吸毒过量的说法可能是从鲁比那里来的。

So maybe that story about the overdose could have come from Ruby.

我不知道。

I don't know.

但整件事感觉确实很不对劲。

But something just feels really odd about the whole thing.

现在很明显，我们已经联系过Ruby了。嗯。

Now, obviously, we reached out to Ruby Mhmm.

试图让她开口。

To try and get her to talk.

她还活着并且在附近，但截至录音时她还没回复我们。

She is alive and around, but she has not gotten back to us as of this recording.

我们无法和Cooper本人谈这件事，因为他已于2023年去世。

We couldn't talk to Cooper himself about it because he passed away in 2023.

我们甚至尝试联系Cooper的兄弟、他的儿子——也就是Ruby的儿子。

And we even tried, like, Cooper's brothers, his son, which is Ruby's son.

没有回应。

No answer.

而且听着。

And listen.

比如，将库珀与罗伯特·查尔斯·布朗这样的人相比，库珀简直像个天使。

Like, when comparing Cooper to a guy like Robert Charles Brown, Cooper looks like an angel.

我们采访了他的另一位前妻。

We talked to one of his other ex wives.

除了露比之外他还有三位前妻。

He has three besides Ruby.

她说库珀为人善良、虔诚，而且她从未听说过罗威娜这个人。

And she said that he was kind, religious, and she had never heard of Rowena before.

当我们与雷德·马尔霍兰交谈时，他告诉我们库珀和巴特曾一起在这支乐队演出。

And when we talked to Red Mulholland, he told us that Cooper and Bart, they played in this band together.

他们很喜欢聚会玩乐。

They like to party a lot.

但在他档案中最不检点的记录，就是1989年他和巴特一起因持有大麻被起诉。

But, like, the most salacious thing on his record is a possession of marijuana charge that he and Bart got together in 1989.

除此之外，他没有其他不良记录，而巴特也只有一些交通违规行为。

Other than that, he didn't have anything else, and Bart only had some traffic violations.

需要明确的是，我并不是说巴特与罗威娜之死有关，但我觉得有趣的是，库珀唯一一次被刑事指控时，是和巴特一起被抓的。

And just to be clear, I'm not saying that Bart had anything to do with Rowena, but I thought it was interesting that the one, like, criminal charge Cooper had, he was with Bart when he got it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但听起来他们是最好的朋友。

But it sounds like they were besties.

我们甚至尝试多次联系巴特，但也没收到回复，我觉得很遗憾，因为他那晚和第二天早上肯定在场。

So we even tried calling Bart several times, but didn't hear back from him either, which I think is a shame because he was definitely around that night and that morning.

我认为他可能记得一些重要的事情。

And I think he might remember something important.

因为我不知道。

Because I don't know.

我就是无法释怀——库珀在罗威娜和梅洛迪死亡当晚都出现在她们身边，这件事看起来非常蹊跷。

Like, I just I cannot let go of the fact that something seems very wild about Cooper being around both Rowena and Melody on the nights that they died.

可能只是个奇怪的巧合。

It could be a weird coincidence.

也可能是其他原因。

It could be something else.

我的直觉告诉我，我也说不清楚。

My spidey senses were like, I don't know.

就是感觉另有隐情。

Like, feels like something else.

当我们继续调查他时，发现还有另一个亲近他的人也去世了。

And when we kept looking at him, like, there was also someone else close to him who died.

他的第一任妻子名叫朗达·斯塔尔，她在1980年以可疑的方式去世，那时她与库珀结婚还不到十个月。

His first wife named Rhonda Stahl, she died in a questionable way back in 1980, less than ten months after marrying Cooper.

目前只有一篇报纸文章和讣告提到了库珀第一任妻子的死亡，但以下是我们掌握的情况。

Now there is literally one newspaper article and an obit about Cooper's first wife's death, But here's what we know.

根据《维多利亚倡导报》的报道，在一个夏末的夜晚，朗达正驾车驶向普拉托尼亚和马尔登之间乡村路段的一处铁轨，她的车辆翻滚了两圈并将她抛出车外。

According to the Victoria Advocate, on a late summer night, Rhonda was driving toward train tracks on a rural stretch of road between Platonia and Muldoon when her car rolled over twice and threw her from the vehicle.

汽车部分滚到了铁轨上，后来被火车推到了一旁。

The car actually rolled partly onto the train tracks and was then pushed aside by the train.

州警表示，朗达可能在火车经过前已在地上躺了半小时。

Now state trooper said that Rhonda was probably laying on the ground for half an hour before the train passed.

他们怎么知道的，我完全没概念。

How they know that, I have no idea.

我不知道是不是火车上有人报告撞到了车辆，这才发现了她的尸体。

I don't know if maybe somebody, like, on the train reported hitting a vehicle, and that's, how her body was discovered.

但他们紧急将她送往医院，几小时后她还是去世了。

But they rushed her to the hospital where she died a few hours later.

她的死亡证明上写着死因是'可能的颅内创伤'，也就是头部创伤，但没做尸检。

And her death certificate says that she died of, quote, possible intracranial trauma, which is like head trauma, but no autopsy was done.

所以他们就直接认定她是死于车祸？

So they just assume that she died from the car accident?

对。

Yeah.

那他们有说车辆是怎么翻车的吗？

And did they say how the car rolled over?

算是吧。

Kind of.

州警认为她是在驾驶时睡着了。

Like, the state trooper thinks that she fell asleep at the wheel.

所以，从物理证据上来说，没有。

So, like, physically, no.

他们只是认为这是一场意外。

They just think that this was, like, an accident.

这里面有很多疑问。

Lot of questions there.

但让我试着理清楚。

But let me try to get this straight.

库珀·切里现在与三名以某种暴力方式死亡的女性有关联。

Cooper Cherry is now connected to three women who all died in some sort of violent way.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这太令人震惊了。

But this is shocking.

似乎没人对这家伙有半句坏话。

It seems like no one has a bad word to say about this guy.

嗯嗯。

Mm-mm.

感觉他就像是被诅咒了一样。

It kinda feels like he's just cursed.

是啊。

Yeah.

这也是一种可能。

That's an option.

又或者人们不敢开口。

Or maybe people are scared to talk.

我是说，关键问题在于。

I mean, here's the thing.

对于年代如此久远的案件，我们通常面临的问题是已无在世目击者。

In cases this old, the problem we normally face is not having any witnesses alive anymore.

没错。

Right.

但这次情况不同。

That's not what's going on here.

明明还有这么多人健在，但不知为何，弗卢托尼娅的人们都三缄其口。

There are so many people who are still around, but for some reason, people in Flutonia are not talking.

除了罗威娜的丈夫和乔丽塔，只有三个人回复了我们。

Only three people got back to us outside of Rowena's husband and Jolita.

确切地说，是两个半人回复了我们。

Or, really, two and a half people got back to us.

我们当然和雷德·马尔霍兰谈过，还联系了库珀的一位前妻。

We obviously talked to Red Mulholland, and then we talked to one of Cooper's ex wives.

另外我们确实简短接触过罗威娜的老板，就是那位我们称为杰西卡的人。

And we did really briefly speak to Rowena's boss, the one that we called Jessica.

她就是那天发现她的人。

She is the one that found her that day.

但我说'简短'的意思是，我们只跟她通了一分钟左右的电话。

But when I say briefly, I mean, we got her on the phone for, like, a minute.

我真的很意外通话时间这么短，因为是乔丽塔让我们联系她的。

And I was really surprised that it wasn't longer because Jolita was the one who told us to call her.

她说：'我跟她谈过了。'

She's like, I talked to her.

她什么都记得。

She remembers everything.

她肯定会跟你们详谈的——但实际情况完全不是这样。

She is definitely gonna talk to you, but that is definitely not what happened.

我猜这大概不是个容易谈论的话题。

I imagine that's probably not the easiest subject to talk about.

露温娜的妹妹乔丽塔请我帮忙调查她姐姐的案子。

Ruwena's sister, Jolita, asked me to sort of look into Ruwena's case.

我是说，她认为罗温娜是被谋杀的，但我想既然你当时在场目睹了一切，你自己对此有什么看法吗？

And, I mean, she believes that Rowena was killed, but I'm wondering since since you were there and you you saw everything, like, do you have a personal feeling about that?

我有看法，不过你已经和罗温娜的姐姐谈过了吧？

I do, but you did talk to Rowena's sister.

是这样吗？

Is that correct?

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

杰莉塔。

Jelita.

她清楚了解案件的所有结果。

Well, she knows she knows everything there is to know about the outcome.

至于讨论我亲眼所见的事情...嗯。

As far as discussing anything about what I saw Mhmm.

我做不到这件事。

I won't be able to do that.

哦，为什么呢？

Oh, why is that?

因为我决定不

Because I've decided not to

做了。

do it.

我不想做。

I don't care to do it.

你不想做。

You don't care to do it.

就是不愿意做。

Gonna be do not wish to do it.

好吧。

Okay.

我不想做这件事，这是个人原因。

I do not wish to do it and it's personal.

好的。

Okay.

好吗？

Okay?

行吗？

Alright?

她才是你应该去谈的人。

She would be the person for you to talk to.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，不过她建议我来找你谈。

I mean, she suggested I talk to you though.

仅此而已。

That's the only thing.

嗯。

Yeah.

这这这很好，我很感激，但我不会这么做。

And and and that's nice and I appreciate that, but I'm not going to.

好吧。

Okay.

谢

Thank

谢你。

you so much.

是因为你害怕后果吗？

Is it because you fear repercussions?

不是。

No.

原因就是我刚才说的那样。

It's because exactly what I just said.

我不想讨论这件事，就这样。

I do not wish to discuss it, and that is all.

好的。

Okay.

因为这是个令人不快的话题。

Because it's an upsetting topic.

非常感谢你。

Thank you very much.

好的。

Okay.

我听到了。

I hear you.

我们不知道她不愿谈论的原因。

We don't know her reasons for not talking.

当我们询问阿丽塔这件事时，她其实也不太明白。

And when we asked Alita about this, she didn't really understand either.

但托马斯，罗威娜的丈夫，认为人们可能因为要谈论的对象而犹豫开口。

But Thomas, Rowena's husband, thinks that people might be hesitant to talk because of who they would be talking about.

你看，托马斯告诉我们，如果他们要说关于库珀的事，库珀来自弗拉托尼亚的一个显赫家族。

You see, Thomas told us that if they were gonna say anything about Cooper, Cooper is from a prominent family in Flatonia.

比如，他父亲在穆尔登拥有一座大牧场，还有几口油井。

Like, his dad owned a big ranch out in Muldoon, and they had several oil wells.

他曾担任镇银行的董事，这是个很有权势的位置。

He sat on the board of the town bank, which was a powerful seat.

那当地现在还有樱桃吗？

And are there still cherries around locally?

是的。

Yeah.

还有。

There are.

但我想说清楚。

But I wanna be clear.

我们没有发现任何证据表明库珀的家人会威胁他人。

There's nothing that we found to suggest that Cooper's family would threaten people.

而且我们无法询问他们任何问题，因为他们中没有人愿意和我们交谈。

And we couldn't ask them anything because none of them have spoken to us.

但为了理解其中的含义，托马斯向我们提供了一些背景信息，就像他自己的经历，他的人生那样。

But to understand the implication here, Thomas gave us a little background just like in his own experience, like his life.

他和罗威娜是高中时的恋人，他们很年轻时就怀上了儿子布兰登。

So him and Rowena were high school sweethearts when they got pregnant really young with their son, Brandon.

托马斯同样出身于显赫家族。

Thomas was from a prominent family as well.

他父亲实际上也在同一个镇银行董事会任职。

His dad actually sat on the same town bank board.

可以说，他非常了解这个世界。

Like, he knows this world.

托马斯表示，听着，我对罗威娜没有意见，但她是个离家出走的女孩，而我们当时有了孩子。

And Thomas was like, look, nothing against Rowena, but she was a runaway, and we got pregnant.

我敢打赌，这绝不是我父亲心目中为我设想的理想生活。

And I'm betting that that wasn't my dad's idea of a dream life for me.

你知道，他们虽然不开心，但还是支持了他们结婚并负起养育孩子责任的决定。

You know, they weren't happy, but they supported their decision to get married and to do right by his child.

而且，在托马斯上大学期间，他们还在经济上给予了支持。

And, like, so they supported them financially when Thomas went to college.

他说罗威娜是个好母亲，很爱自己的儿子。

And he said Rowena was a good mom, and she loved her son.

但事情确实发展到了让人难以承受的地步。

But it did get to the point where it was all too much.

罗威娜不想这么快就长大成人。

Like, Rowena didn't wanna grow up so quickly.

她想保持年轻。

She wanted to be young.

她想要玩乐、外出约会、结识不同的人。

She wanted to have fun, go out, see other people.

她当时才20岁，记得吗？

She's 20, remember?

所以她和托马斯分开了，但两人实际上从未正式离婚。

So she and Thomas split up, but they never actually divorced.

他说他认识当晚和罗伊娜一起外出的多数人，但不认识露比。

Now he said that he knew most of the people who were out with Roena that night, but he didn't know Ruby.

他确实认识库珀。

He did know Cooper.

我是说，他们一起参加过派对，但关系并不像最好的朋友那样。

I mean, they'd partied together, but they're not like best friends or anything.

而且，你知道，当我们和托马斯交谈时，他提到他们父亲都在银行董事会共事，你能看到他脑子里开始琢磨这件事。

And, you know, as we were talking to Thomas and he tells us the thing about, like, their dads being on the bank board together, like, you could see, like, the wheels start turning in his head.

他说，库珀总是惹麻烦。

And he's like, you know, Cooper was always getting in trouble.

这对他父亲来说可能不是什么好事。

And, like, that might not have been a good look for his dad.

所以他表示，我能想象一个库珀没有更多案底的世界，因为当你有人脉时，生活会轻松些。

So he's like, I could see a world where Cooper doesn't have more of a record because when you have the right connections, life is a bit easier for you.

如果库珀与梅洛迪、罗威娜或朗达的死亡有关，他家的人肯定不愿让任何人知道这种事。

If Cooper had anything to do with the deaths of Melody or Rowena or Rhonda, like, nobody in his family would again, this is like the kind nobody wants anyone to know that kind of stuff.

没错。

Right.

所以这些全是疑点...嗯哼。

So there's like all this smoke Mhmm.

但就是没有确凿证据。

But there is no fire.

归根结底，最清楚不过的是当局需要重新彻查罗威娜的案子。

Though at the end of the day, the one thing that is excruciatingly clear is that authorities need to take another hard look at Rowena's case.

乔莉塔希望他们重启案件，真正完成她家人几十年来被剥夺的调查。

Jolita wants them to reopen her case and actually do the investigation that her family has been denied for decades.

她认为罗威娜的儿子布兰登有权知道母亲遭遇的真相。

She thinks Rowena's son Brandon deserves to know what really happened to his mom.

罗威娜去世时还很年轻。

Rowena was so young when she died.

她是一位才华横溢的牛仔竞技作家，一个善良有趣的人，也是一位努力想给儿子美好生活的母亲。

She was a talented rodeo writer, a kind, fun person, and a mom just trying to figure out how to give her son a good life.

我们相信有人蓄意缩短了她的生命，威尔金斯和扎皮拉克家族都渴望正义。

And we believe that someone decided to cut that life short, and the Wilkins and Zapilak family want justice.

这就是为什么乔丽塔发起请愿，要求费耶特县首先将罗威娜的死亡证明从自杀意外改为他杀，因为这将促使当局重新调查她的案件。

And that is why Jolita started a petition asking Fayette County first to change Rowena's death certificate from suicide accident to homicide because that would then allow the authorities to reopen her case.

最近乔丽塔告诉我们，县检察官似乎有意至少重新审视此案，但费耶特县检察官办公室或治安法官办公室至今未就任何正式调查步骤给予我们回复。

Recently, Jolita told us that the county attorney seemed interested in at least taking another look at the case, but no one from the Fayette County Attorney's Office or the Justice of the Peace Office has gotten back to us about any official steps that they're taking to actually make that happen.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不过在节目即将发布前，乔丽塔告知我们她收到了得克萨斯骑警队和州检察长办公室的会面邀约。

Though I will say, right before we were about to release this episode, Jolita told us that she received a call to meet with the Texas Rangers and the Texas attorney general's office.

对方表示希望商讨重启罗威娜案件调查事宜。

They say they wanna discuss reopening Rowena's case.

她告诉我们，她已向县检察官透露了我们报道的部分内容，并表示对方至少有意跟进其中一些线索。

Now she shared with us that she told the county attorney about some of our reporting, and she says that they're at least interested in following some of those leads.

如果您掌握有关罗温娜或梅洛迪·布什死亡案件的任何信息，请联系费耶特县警长办公室，电话(979)968-5856，或通过tips@audiotruck.com联系我们。

And if you have any information on the deaths of Rowena or Melody Bush, please contact the Fayette County Sheriff's Office at (979) 968-5856, or you can reach out to us, tips@audiotruck.com.

您可以在我们的官网crimejunkie.com上查阅本集所有原始资料。

You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkie.com.

若想收听更多类似内容及所有无广告完整剧集，请务必加入粉丝俱乐部。

And if you wanna listen to more episodes like this and all of our episodes completely ad free, be sure to join the fan club.

您将提前获取新剧集及大量番外内容。

You're gonna get early access to our new episodes and a ton of bonus episodes as well.

您可以在Instagram上关注@crimejunkiepodcast账号。

And you can follow us on Instagram at crime junkie podcast.

下周我们将带来全新剧集。

We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

《犯罪迷》由Audio Chuck制作出品。

Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production.

我想查克会赞同的。

I think Chuck would approve.