史蒂文·奥特曼与玛丽·安·海斯的神秘死亡

好的，布雷特。

Okay, Brett.

还记得小时候读内莉·德鲁系列小说时，我们以为每个调查最终都会有答案吗？

Remember how growing up on Nancy Drew made us think that, like, every investigation had an answer?

是的。

Yeah.

意思是，只要你足够耐心地追踪线索，一切最终都会变得清晰。

Like, if you just followed the clues long enough, everything would start to make sense.

但现实并不是这样。

Except for that's not real life.

我们越深入调查，越沉迷于犯罪案件，就越明白事情并不总是如此。

Like, the more we've gone down the rabbit hole, the longer we've been crime junkies, we know that that's not always the case.

有时候，我们最终只能面对未知。

Sometimes all we're left with is the unknown.

我喜欢谜题，尤其是那些有各种理论可以探索的谜题。

And I love a mystery, especially one with theories to explore.

所以，你知道的，我对所有超自然的东西都着迷。

So, of course, you know I'm obsessed with everything supernatural.

我也超级着迷。

I'm so obsessed.

你以前还主持过一档关于这个的节目。

You used to host a show about it.

是的。

Yeah.

但我现在已经不主持了。

And I don't host anymore.

我已经把接力棒交了出去，但我每周还是会听这个节目。

I have passed the baton, but I still listen to that show every week.

所以每周的超自然现象都会深入探讨一些关于未解现象、无处不在的未知之谜，以及

So supernatural every week dives into real stories about unexplained phenomena, unknowns everywhere, and

有大量理论值得研究。

there are tons of theories to examine.

这简直是最适合和闺蜜一起度过纸牌之夜的播客。

Which honestly makes it the perfect podcast to string board night with your bestie.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，如果你和我一样热爱探索未知，那你也会和我们一样爱上《So Supernatural》。

So if you love exploring the unknown just as much as I do, then you're gonna love so supernatural just as much as we do too.

你可以在任何你收听播客的地方收听《So Supernatural》。

You can and should listen to so supernatural wherever you get your podcasts.

你好，犯罪爱好者们。

Hi, Crime Junkies.

我是主持人阿什莉·弗劳尔斯。

I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

我是布里特。

And I'm Britt.

今天的故事讲述了一个家庭中的两起死亡事件，一位母亲和她的儿子。

And today's story is about two deaths in one family, a mother and her son.

在纸面上，两人都死于自杀。

And on paper, both died by suicide.

但他们的女儿和妹妹罗宾·阿尔特曼几十年来一直有一种挥之不去的感觉：事情有些不对劲。

But their daughter and sister, Robin Altman, had this nagging feeling for decades that something just didn't add up.

当她哥哥的一位老朋友告诉她一些罗宾从未听说过的事情时，这种感觉愈发强烈。

And that feeling builds when an old friend of her brother's tells her some things that Robin has never heard before.

这促使她展开了自己的调查。

And it leads her on an investigation of her own.

因为如果这些根本不是自杀，而是伪装成自杀的谋杀呢？

Because what if these weren't suicides at all, but murders staged to look like suicides?

如果是这样，谁会想要害死她的哥哥和母亲呢？

And if that's true, who would want both her brother and her mother dead?

这是斯蒂芬·阿尔特曼和玛丽安·海耶斯的故事。

This is the story of Stephen Altman and Maryann Hayes.

2013年，51岁的罗宾·阿尔特曼正在南卡罗来纳州查尔斯顿的家中从手术中恢复。

In 2013, 51 year old Robin Altman is recovering from surgery at her home in Charleston, South Carolina.

躺在床上，有点坐立不安，她开始在Ancestry.com上随意浏览，只是为了打发时间。

Laid up in bed and kinda going a little stir crazy, she starts poking around on ancestry.com just to, like, pass the time.

她很好奇，因为关于她家族的历史，有很多事情一直让她觉得不对劲。

And she's curious because there is a lot about her family's history that has never sat right with her.

她的哥哥史蒂文在1984年突然自杀，当时他才21岁。

Her brother, Steven, took his own life unexpectedly back in 1984 when he was just 21.

然后她的母亲玛丽·安在十二年后的1996年也自杀身亡。

And then her mom, Mary Anne, died by suicide twelve years later in 1996.

这两次死亡对她来说都始终无法解释。

And both deaths just never made sense to her.

我的意思是，对那些失去亲人的人来说，很少有自杀事件真的说得通，但一些细小的异常让她怀疑，他们中至少有一人可能是被谋杀的。

I mean, few suicides do make sense to those closest to the people who were left behind, but little things made her suspicious that maybe one or both of them could have been murdered.

但她一直不知道该如何处理这些疑虑。

But she'd never known what to do with those suspicions.

说实话，现在她在网上浏览时，依然不知道该做什么，因为坦白说，她自己也不清楚在Ancestry.com上到底想找什么。

I mean, honestly, she still didn't know what to even do now as she's poking around the Internet because, like, truthfully, she doesn't know what she's looking for on ancestry.com.

是的。

Yeah.

我正想说，那里会有什么呢？

I was gonna say, oh, what would be there?

是的。

Yeah.

这可不是我会想到去寻找谋杀案原因或线索的地方。

Not the place that I would think to go for, like, the whys or the clues to a murder.

但不管是什么力量把她引到了那里，不管她心底那点微弱的声音是什么，它都知道些什么。

But whatever it was that pulled her there, whatever little voice was in the back of her head, it knew something.

因为当她开始在搜索栏输入家人的名字时，出现的结果让她大吃一惊。

Because when she starts typing in her family members' names to the search bar, what comes up surprises her.

上面有她哥哥和她妈妈的记录，但他们是被一个叫蕾切尔·库南的女性创建的家谱所收录的。

It's an entry for her brother and her mom, but they're in a family tree made by a woman named Rachel Kunan.

实际上，罗宾认识这个女人。

Now Robin actually knows this woman.

拉切尔和她哥哥史蒂文上同一所高中，但她也知道他们并没有血缘关系。

Rachel went to high school with her brother, Steven, but she also knows that they're not related.

出于好奇她为什么要做这件事，罗宾联系了拉切尔。

So curious why she would have made this thing, she reaches out to Rachel.

嘿。

Like, hey.

好久没联系了。

Long time no talk.

你为什么要搞这么奇怪的事？

Why'd you do this weird thing?

是的。

Yeah.

拉切尔很快就回复了，她告诉罗宾她和史蒂文关系非常亲密。

And Rachel responds pretty quickly, and she tells Robin that she was really close to Steven.

她年轻时其实对他暗恋已久。

She actually had a big crush on him when he was a teenager.

所以她把他的名字写在了她的树上，因为她想确保网上能留下一些关于他的记录。

And so she put his name on her tree because she wanted to make sure there was some kind of record of him online.

然后她只是把玛丽·安也加到了树上。

And then she just added Mary Anne to the tree

这也还好。

too, which is Okay.

这有点奇怪，罗宾感到有点困惑。

It's a little odd, and Robin was a bit confused.

但不管怎样，这件事看起来并不带有恶意或阴险的意图。

But, like, nothing about this seems malicious or sinister.

我不知道。

I don't know.

也许正是那种促使罗宾来到这个网站的微小念头，也让瑞秋来到了这里。

Maybe the same little nagging thing that brought Robin to this site brought Rachel there as well.

因为事实证明，这两个女人需要找到彼此，我不知道是否还有其他方式。

Because it turns out that these two women needed to find each other, and I don't know if there would have been any other way.

现在她们两人联系上了。

Now the two of them end up connecting.

当她们开始聊天时，对话总是围绕着她的哥哥和他的去世。

And when they get to chatting, the conversation is circling a lot around her brother and his death.

罗宾对此感到非常震惊，因为据她所知，他并没有表现出任何自杀的迹象。

Really how Robin was blindsided by it because he didn't seem to be experiencing suicidal thoughts from what she knew.

他还在为未来做计划。

He'd been making plans for the future.

他甚至对去世第二天就要进行的一次约会感到兴奋。

He was excited about a date that he had the very next day after he died.

就在这时，蕾切尔开始倾诉起来。

And that is when Rachel begins to unload.

她、她的姐姐，还有和史蒂文关系很亲密的母亲，也都觉得他的死很可疑。

She, her sister, and her mom, who Steven was close with, all thought his death was suspicious too.

蕾切尔实际上告诉她，就在史蒂文去世的前一晚，他开车经过了她家。

Rachel actually tells her the night before Steven died, he drove past her house.

他们一群朋友当时聚在一起，他告诉他们，他只是要去给继父跑个腿，然后一小时后就回来，但他再也没有回来。

Bunch of their friends were, like, together hanging out, and he told them that he was just gonna run this errand for his stepdad and then he was gonna come back in an hour, But then he just never returned.

她接下来听到的消息是，他已经死了。

Next thing she heard, he was found dead.

这个细节让罗宾愣住了，因为这可能是她哥哥去世前最后被人见到的时刻之一，而她根本不知道他要去给继父跑腿。

And that detail stops Robin in her tracks because that would have been one of the last times someone saw her brother before he died, and she never knew that he was gonna run an errand for their stepdad.

她只知道，第二天早上7点15分，她的哥哥被发现悬挂在芝加哥继父车间的起重机吊钩上，脖子上套着绳子。

She just knew that at 07:15 the next morning, her brother was found hanging by his neck from a crane hoist at their stepdad's workshop in Chicago.

现在，他们的继父唐在发现史蒂文时并不在场。

Now their stepdad, Don, hadn't been there when Steven was found.

所以大家都以为史蒂文是自己选了那个地方。

So everyone just assumed that Steven had picked that place.

我不知道。

I don't know.

也许是为了不让家人发现他。

Maybe so his family wouldn't have to find him.

我的意思是，史蒂文偶尔会在店里工作，所以他出现在那里并不奇怪。

I mean, Steven, like, worked at the shop from time to time, so it wasn't odd for him to be there or anything like that.

但在那许多年里，唐从未提过史蒂文前一天晚上为他跑过腿。

But Don had never said anything in all those years about Steven running an errand for him the night before.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这会是几十年来从未公开过的全新信息吗？

So that would make this, like, brand new information that never came out for, like, decades?

是的。

Yes.

听好了。

And listen.

他为唐跑腿可能根本就不是他真正要做的事。

Him running an errand for Dawn might not even have really been what he was, like, doing.

谁知道他跟朋友说的是什么，或者他真正要去做什么呢。

Like, who knows what he's telling his friends or what he was, like, really going to do.

我的意思是，我觉得让罗宾印象最深的是，史蒂文在去世前的那个晚上，还告诉别人他马上就回来。

I mean, I think the part that really sticks out to Robin is just the fact that the very night that Steven like, right before he dies, he's telling someone he's gonna be right back.

在他去世前的几个小时里，他表现出完全不像是要自杀的样子。

He's giving every indication in the hours leading up to his death that he wasn't planning to kill himself.

他计划要回来的。

He was planning on coming back.

后来，蕾切尔告诉罗宾，她妈妈对这件事感到非常奇怪，甚至打电话给芝加哥警察局，敦促他们展开调查。

Now Rachel went on to tell Robin that her mom had such a weird feeling about this whole thing that she actually called the Chicago Police Department, urging them to investigate.

她以前当过治安官，所以希望他们能稍微重视一下她的建议。

She'd been a sheriff's deputy before, so she hoped that they would maybe give a little weight to her suggestion.

但根据蕾切尔的妹妹贝基的说法，芝加哥警方的回应是类似‘请别再给我们打电话了’这样的话。

But according to Rachel's sister, Becky, their response, like the Chicago Police's response, was something to the effect of like, please stop calling us.

当然，这显然不是任何确凿的证据，但无论她内心深处对罗宾埋下了多么微小的疑虑，那天它都变得更大了。

Now this obviously isn't proof of anything, but whatever tiny suspicion she had planted deep inside of her being Robin, it grew larger that day.

这给了她所需的推动力。

And this gave her the push she needed.

因为就在2013年同一年，她向芝加哥警察局提交了关于她哥哥档案的信息公开申请。

Because that same year of 2013, she filed a FOIA request with Chicago PD for her brother's records.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

同时，她还向诺菲尔德警局提交了关于她母亲案件的申请。

While she's at it, she submits one with Norfield PD for her mom's case too.

当关于史蒂文案件的回复回来时，她有点震惊。

Now when the response comes back for Steven's case, she's a little shocked.

罗宾收到的只是一封来自芝加哥警察局的简短信件，说他们查找了档案，但没有任何记录，这似乎不太对劲。

All Robin receives is this short letter from Chicago PD saying they searched for the records and they don't have anything, which doesn't seem right.

她知道他们根本没做深入调查。

Like, she knows that they didn't do a big investigation.

警察甚至从未打电话给她或她母亲进行询问。

I mean, police never so much as called her or her mom for an interview.

他们根本没问过任何问题。

I mean, they never asked, like, any questions.

他们根本没跟家人任何一个人交谈，就直接认定是自杀。

And they basically ruled it a suicide without talking to anyone in the family.

这很奇怪。

That's weird.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，他们确实跟唐聊过，因为那天早上他来上班时，发现 workshop 里全是警察。

Well, I mean, they talked to Don because he ended up showing up that morning to work, and then he found police over at his workshop.

但看起来警察除了可能跟那里的几个员工聊过之外，就只接触了他一个人。

But it seems like that is the only person that police talk to apart from maybe, like, a couple of employees there.

而且我们也不知道那些员工说了什么，因为正如我所说——

And we have no idea what those employees said either because, like I said

没有文件。

No documents.

没有文件。

No documents.

对。

Right.

但即使是自杀，也应该有一些记录。

But even suicides, though, should have some sort of record.

是的。

Yeah.

但真的什么都没有吗？

But there's just nothing?

在史蒂文的案例中，她最怀疑的那个，什么都没有。

There is nothing in Steven's case, the one that she was getting the most suspicious of.

但结果发现，真正能解开谜团的其实是她母亲的死因。

But it turns out it was actually her mother's death that was really gonna unlock the mystery.

因为在同一年，2013年，她申请玛丽·安的档案获得了批准，而这与史蒂文的案例完全相反。

Because in the same year, 2013, her FOIA for Mary Anne's file is approved, and it is the total opposite of Stephen's case.

有大量的文件，描绘出她母亲死亡的全然不同的图景，与她过去十七年所相信的故事截然不同。

There is a treasure trove of documents that paint a picture of her mother's death that is completely different from the story she has been living with for the last seventeen years.

每一个真实犯罪故事都有一个共同点。

Every true crime story has one thing in common.

表象之下往往另有隐情，而没有任何播客比《变色龙》更懂这一点。

Nothing is as it seems, and no podcast knows that better than Chameleon.

我是乔什·迪恩，我的播客《变色龙》探索骗子和令人难以置信的骗局所隐藏的真实身份，听完后你会质疑自己所知的一切。

I'm Josh Dean, and my podcast, Chameleon, explores hidden identities concealed by con artists and scams so mind blowing, it'll have you questioning everything you know.

如果你准备好揭开历史上最大的谎言，请在你收听播客的平台订阅《变色龙》。

If you're ready to uncover the biggest lies in history, listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.

罗宾面前的警方报告中包含了一封她继父唐的手写陈述，解释了他如何在1996年9月25日发现妻子死在卧室里。

The police reports Robin had in front of her included a handwritten statement from her stepdad, Dawn, explaining how he found his wife dead in their bedroom on 09/25/1996.

唐告诉警察，他当天在工作时试图给妻子打电话，但没人接。

Dawn told police that he had tried calling his wife from work that day, but no one picked up.

当他像往常一样回到家时，发现她躺在地板上，只穿着内衣和一件衬衫，脖子上缠着一条电源线，绕了三四圈。

And when he got home at his usual time, he found her laying on the floor in just her underwear and a shirt with an extension cord wrapped around her neck like three or four times.

当警察到达现场时，唐已经把电线从她脖子上取下，并用一条毛巾盖住了她的双腿。

Now by the time police arrived at the scene, Don had already removed the cord from her neck and placed a towel over her legs.

没有留下任何字条，奇怪的是，玛丽·安死时似乎正在修剪指甲，因为警方找到了并收集了一些指甲剪、指甲碎屑，以及玛丽·安一根断裂的指甲，上面沾有血迹。

There's no note, and strangely, it looks like Mary Anne was in the middle of trimming her nails when she died because they found and collected some nail clippers, fingernail clippings, and one of Mary Anne's broken fingernails, which had blood on it.

这看起来不像是自杀。

That doesn't read suicide to me.

不是。

No.

完全不像，尤其是因为那根延长线并没有系在任何东西上。

Not at all, especially because it's not like the extension cord was tied to anything.

只是

It was just,

像一条勒索工具，有人用手握着，然后紧紧勒住她的脖子。

like, wrapped around her neck like a ligature someone would have held and then tightened around her neck.

一定有人看出了这明显是谋杀的迹象，至少北菲尔德警方启动了调查。

And someone must have seen the obviousness of what this really looked like because Northfield police at least started an investigation.

报告中详细记录了他们收集了我刚才提到的所有物品，包括那根带有污渍的延长线，以及在玛丽安的尸检中提取的阴道拭子。

The reports detail that they collected all of the stuff that I just mentioned along with the cord, which had stains on it, and they took vaginal swabs at Maryann's autopsy.

这些拭子检测出了一名未知男性的DNA轮廓，犯罪实验室建议在收集任何嫌疑人DNA后进行比对分析，但令人不意外的是，基于后来判定为自杀的结论，这一分析从未进行。

Now those swabs turned up an unknown male profile, and the crime lab recommended performing an analysis if DNA from any suspects were collected, which no surprise based on the later ruling of suicide, it never was.

警方还询问了罗宾，以及她的同母异父的弟弟和妹妹，他们是玛丽·安与唐恩所生的孩子。

The police also questioned Robin alongside her younger half brother and sister who are Mary Anne's children with Dawn.

警方的报告中记录了这些访谈，相关记录都存档在文件里。

And the reports from police were counting those interviews were in the file.

正是在那时，罗宾意识到自己可能触及了一个重大真相，因为她表示，报告中关于她访谈的内容大部分都不属实。

And this is when Robin realized that she was really onto something big because she said most of what the report about her interview says wasn't true.

报告称，罗宾向警方提供了三个关键信息，我猜这些信息影响了他们对自杀结论的判断。

It says that Robin told them three major things that I assume is what, like, helped shape their suicide theory.

第一，她母亲长期患有心理健康问题，并且一直拒绝接受规律治疗。

One, that her mom had struggled with mental health issues and had been refusing to go get treatment on a regular basis.

第二，她母亲曾多次威胁要自杀。

Number two, that her mom had threatened suicide before.

报告中特别提到一次，当唐恩威胁要与她离婚时，她甚至在几年前因自杀未遂而住过院。

I mean, it specifically mentions one time when Dawn threatened to divorce her and it says that she had even been hospitalized for attempting suicide a couple of years earlier.

第三点是，在她母亲去世前两周，道恩带她和她的同父异母兄弟姐妹去吃饭，告诉他们他们的母亲有自杀倾向。

And the third thing, that two weeks before her mom's death, Dawn took her and her half siblings to dinner without her mom to tell them that their mom was suicidal.

罗宾无法相信自己所读到的内容，因为这些根本不是她说过的话，或者说，部分是她说过的内容，但都被严重曲解了。

And Robin couldn't believe what she was reading because none of that is what she said Or, like, part of it is what she said, but it is all taken so out of context.

还有一些内容完全是凭空捏造的。

And then some stuff is just, like, downright made up.

是的，她母亲在她哥哥自杀后确实陷入了困境。

So, like, yes, her mom had struggled after her brother's suicide.

史蒂文去世后，她感到深深的内疚和悲伤，这种情绪在接下来的十二年里严重影响了她的心理健康。

She felt deep guilt and sadness after Steven's death, and that took a toll on her mental health over the following twelve years.

是的。

Yeah.

我可以理解，这很自然。

I would imagine, naturally.

但她表示，她不仅告诉警方，她母亲多年来一直定期接受心理治疗，还明确告诉警方，她的母亲并没有自杀倾向。

But she says not only did she tell the police that her mom had been regularly going to mental health treatments for years, she says she told them in no uncertain terms that her mother was not suicidal.

是的，Dawn带她和她年幼的兄弟姐妹出去吃饭这件事确实发生了，但报告中遗漏了她采访中的一个关键细节。

And yes, that dinner where Dawn took her and her younger siblings out did happen, but there was a key piece from her interview that was missing from the report.

她告诉我们，当Dawn在饭桌上说Mary Anne有自杀倾向时，Robin当场反驳了。

She told us that when Don said at dinner that Mary Anne was suicidal, Robin pushed back.

她根本不相信Dawn说的这些话，即使在母亲去世后，她向警察陈述时也不相信这些说法。

She did not buy it when Don was saying all of this, and she didn't believe it after her mother's death when she was talking to police either.

至于过去的自杀尝试，这一件完全让她震惊。

Now as for the past attempts at suicide, this is the one that totally blows her away.

因为根据Robin的说法，她母亲从未试图结束自己的生命。

Because according to Robin, her mom had not tried to take her own life ever.

在Steven去世十年后，也就是1994年，有一次Mary Anne年幼的儿子Brian走进房间，发现母亲脖子上缠着浴袍腰带，仿佛在勒自己——这确实可能被解读为一次自杀尝试。

There was this one time ten years after Steven died, this would have been 1994, where Mary Anne's younger son, Brian, walked in on his mom with this bathrobe tie around her neck as if she was choking herself, which to be fair could be construed as a suicide attempt.

但Robin说这根本不是事实，因为她给我们看了一封Mary Anne在事件后写给Brian的信，信中解释她并没有想伤害自己。

But Robin says that's not really what was going on because she shared a letter with us that Maryann wrote to Brian after this incident where she explains that she wasn't trying to harm herself.

她绝不会抛下她的孩子们。

She would never leave her children.

她写道，她只是想感受史蒂文的感受。

She wrote that she just wanted to feel what Steven was feeling.

我们确实联系了布莱恩询问这件事，但截至本次录音，我们还没有收到回复。

And we did reach out to Brian to ask about this, but we haven't heard back as of this recording.

在我看来，警察只是从访谈中挑选符合他们叙事的证据。

It feels to me like police were just cherry picking facts from interviews to fit their narrative.

从她那里，确实如此。

From her, definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

但我根本搞不懂这个自杀的说法是从哪里来的。

But I don't even get where the suicide narrative is coming from.

她明明告诉警察，她妈妈并没有自杀的念头。

Like, she's telling police her mom wasn't suicidal.

那个场景根本不像自杀。

The scene isn't reading a suicide.

我的意思是，他们就是凭空捏造的吗？

I mean, did they just pull this out of thin air?

也不完全是。

Not exactly.

我不知道他们自己得出了什么结论，但确实有人在推动自杀的说法，那就是唐。

I don't know what conclusions they came to on their own, but there was someone pushing a suicide narrative, and that was Don.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在他自己写的警方陈述中，他说这对夫妇曾讨论过离婚，但玛丽·安并不想离婚。

In his own written police statement, he said that the couple had been talking about divorce, but Mary Anne didn't want one.

正是他告诉警方她曾因这件事威胁要自杀。

He's the one who told them about her threatening suicide over it.

这似乎影响了罗宾的陈述，尽管她从未说过这样的话。

And that seems to have bled into Robin's statement even though she never said that.

在后来与警方的谈话中，当他们问他最近是否与妻子有过性生活时，他说他不能100%确定，但很可能有过，这可以解释他们在阴道拭子检测中可能发现的任何痕迹。

And in a later conversation with police, when they asked him if he had had sex with his wife recently, he said he didn't recall a 100%, but more than likely they did, which could explain away anything they may have found when testing the vaginal swabs.

所以我认为他们从他那里获得的所有信息，对这个案件的走向起到了至关重要的作用。

So I believe everything they learned from him played a huge role in how this case shook out.

也许他们假设，如果找到任何DNA，那只会是她丈夫的。

Maybe they assumed that if they found any DNA, it just would have been her husband's.

他说她因为要被他抛弃而产生了自杀念头。

And he's saying she was suicidal because he was gonna leave her.

自从她儿子自杀后，她就一直陷入崩溃。

She's been a mess since after her son committed suicide.

多么黑暗、悲伤的一家人。

What a dark, sad family.

所以他们最终并没有检测所收集的物证。

So they never ended up testing the evidence that they collected.

法医判定玛丽·安的死因是自缢身亡。

And the ME ruled Mary Anne's death suicide by self strangulation.

就这样，案件结案了。

And with that, the case closed.

但根据罗宾的说法，道恩——他们裁决所依据的主要人物——在描述他们关系时并不是最可靠的叙述者。

But according to Robin, Dawn, who seems to be the basis for their ruling, should not be considered the most reliable narrator when it comes to their relationship.

这对夫妇在一起生活了二十八年，但听起来他们的婚姻一直很不稳固。

The couple had been together for twenty eight years, but it sounds like their marriage was always pretty rocky.

罗宾说，道恩控制欲强，经常进行言语和情感上的虐待。

Robin says that Dawn was controlling and verbally and emotionally abusive.

她说，是的，他们确实像道恩所说的那样讨论过离婚，但她母亲其实对此感到高兴。

And she said that, yeah, they had talked about divorce like Dawn said, but her mom was actually happy about it.

根据玛丽安写给儿子布莱恩的一封信，唐提出要买下他们在北菲尔德的房产，并给她他们在佛罗里达的一套公寓。

According to a letter that Maryann had written her son, Brian, Don offered to buy her out of their house in Northfield and then give her a condo that they had in Florida.

在她去世前的一年里，她花了数月时间整修那套公寓。

And in the year leading up to her death, she spent months fixing that condo up.

她充满期待，准备迎接人生的新篇章。

She was jazzed and ready for a new chapter.

但在她去世前几个月，发生了一些事情。

But just a few months before she died, something happened.

玛丽·安搬回了他们位于北菲尔德的家，那里是道恩住的地方。

Mary Anne moved back into their Northfield home where Dawn was.

但根据罗宾的说法，他们并没有复合。

But according to Robin, it's not like they were back together.

他们仍然是分居状态。

They were still separated.

他们睡在不同的卧室里。

They slept in different bedrooms.

罗宾说，道恩撤回了那套公寓的提议。

And Robin says that Dawn took back the condo offer.

但听好了。

But listen.

把所有离婚的事情放一边。

Put all the divorce stuff aside.

这可以被视为一方之词，另一方之词。

It could be considered like a he said, she said.

对吧？

Right?

而且人们可能会争论，即使女儿已经成年并三十多岁了，母亲也可能不会向她透露婚姻的实情。

And people might argue that a mother might not share the realities of her marriage with her daughter even if her daughter was grown and in her thirties at that time.

好吧。

Fine.

随便吧。

Whatever.

关于将她母亲的死因定为自缢，还有另一件事一直让罗宾感到困扰，她甚至在1996年就告诉过警察。

There was something else that always bothered Robin about the idea of ruling her mother's death self strangulation, something she even told police back in 1996.

罗宾说，在玛丽·安去世前的八周左右，她母亲不小心摔倒，双腕严重骨折，其中一只手腕需要植骨，至今仍在恢复中。

Robin says that sometime in the eight weeks before Mary Anne's death, her mom had tripped and shattered both of her wrists so badly that one wrist required bone grafts, and she was still healing from that.

这仅仅是八周前的事。

That is just eight weeks before.

是的。

Yeah.

粉碎了。

Shattered.

所以在她看来，她妈妈根本不可能自己把绳子勒得足够紧绕在脖子上。

So in her mind, she always felt like it would have been super hard for her mom to even pull the cords tight enough around her neck on her own.

报告里提到过这一点吗？还是他们也把这一点漏掉了？

Was that even mentioned in the report, or did they leave that out too?

哦，报告里确实提到了，但警察把这当作玛丽·安生活中另一个可能促成她自杀的不幸事件。

Oh, it was in there, but officers framed that as just another bad thing in Mary Anne's life that could have contributed to her suicide.

这太奇怪了。

Like, it's so odd.

但你听好了。

But listen.

当罗宾读完所有材料后，她不再只是对母亲的死因感到怀疑。

By the time Robin is done reading everything, she's no longer just suspicious about her mom's death.

她确信母亲的自杀实际上是一起谋杀。

She is convinced that her mom's suicide was actually a murder.

所以罗宾在2018年联系了诺斯菲尔德警察局，幸运的是，她找到了至少愿意倾听的人。

So Robin reaches out to Northfield PD in 2018, and luckily, she finds someone at least willing to listen.

她详细列出了所有不合常理的地方，并要求他们重新调查她母亲的案件。

And she lays out everything that doesn't add up, and she requests that they reopen her mom's case.

我的意思是，至少他们应该还保留着那些物证，可以重新检测看看会有什么发现。

I mean, at minimum, they should still have the physical evidence that they could test and see what comes of that.

起初，诺斯菲尔德警察局似乎确实认真对待了她的话。

And it seems like at first, Northfield PD actually does take her seriously.

在玛丽·安去世近二十二年后，他们决定重新审查证据。

Nearly twenty two years after Mary Anne's death, they decide to reexamine the evidence.

包括阴道拭子、断裂的指甲，以及绳子上的污渍。

The vaginal swabs, the broken fingernail, and the stains from the cord.

所有这些都被重新提交给东北伊利诺伊地区犯罪实验室。

It's all resubmitted to the Northeastern Illinois Regional Crime Lab.

像我这样干这行已经够久了。

Like, I've been doing this long enough.

说实话，我仍然有点惊讶他们还保留着这些证据。

I'm honestly kind of still surprised that they had the evidence.

是的。

Yeah.

我也是。

Same.

但现在需要花一点时间。

Now it takes a little bit of time.

但当结果出来时，并没有什么新的发现。

But when the results come back, there's not, like, much that's new.

因为尽管他们测试了很多项目，但那根绳子并没有提供任何线索。

Because even though they tested a lot of things, the cord didn't yield anything.

他们确实从玛丽安断裂的指甲下提取到了DNA样本，这本来会很有帮助，但那个样本的DNA量不足以进行基因分析。

Now they did get a DNA sample from underneath Marianne's broken fingernail, which would have been great, but there wasn't enough DNA for profiling on that one.

而她的阴道拭子，结果和上世纪九十年代第一次检测时一样，仍然是一个未知男性的DNA图谱。

And then her vaginal swab, they just got the same unknown male profile like they did the first time they tested it back in, like, the nineties.

如果是唐的，他只会说他们在他死前发生过关系，尽管他也不是百分之百确定？

And if it's Don's, he's just gonna say they had sex before she died, even though he's not, what was it, a 100% sure?

是的。

Yeah.

我猜他们会首先测试他，以便确认他是否在嫌疑范围内。

I assume that he is the first one that they're gonna wanna at least test so they can say he's in or out.

对。

Right.

因为如果他是，情况就复杂了。

Because if he's in, complicated.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

如果他不是，那就非常明确。

If he's out, very black and white.

干燥。

Dry.

是的。

Yeah.

现在他是他们首先找的人吗？

Now is he the person that they go to first?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我们有文件显示，一旦得到这些结果，他们就会找某人来问话，并要求该人提供DNA样本。

We have the files that show after they get these results, they bring someone in for questioning, and they ask them, that person, to provide a DNA sample.

这个人最初同意了，但随后要求与律师交谈。

This person initially said yes, but then they asked to speak with a lawyer.

当这种情况发生时，他们最终拒绝提供样本。

And when that happened, they end up refusing to give sample.

好的。

Okay.

所以问题是，我不能告诉你这个人是谁，因为名字被遮盖了。

So Problem is I can't tell you who the person is because the name is redacted.

罗宾知道他是谁吗？

Does Robin know who it is?

我的意思是，她看过被遮盖的文件。

I mean, so she's seen the redacted file.

她相信自己知道他是谁。

She believes she knows who it is.

我们的律师告诉我，我不该说她认为是谁，因为那不是证据。

I'm told by our lawyers I shouldn't say who she thinks because it's not proof.

这仅仅是她的看法。

It's just her opinion.

我也有自己的看法。

I've also got an opinion.

可能的人选没几个。

I there's only so many people it could be.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我不能猜测。

I cannot speculate.

但当这个人拒绝配合时，警方就不会再去寻找其他人了。

But when this person refuses to cooperate, police don't go looking for anyone else.

我的意思是，我知道这一点，因为报告中的下一句话是案件将保持关闭状态。

I mean, I know that much because the very next sentence in the report is that the case will remain closed.

所以传票现在不管用了吗？

So are subpoenas not a thing anymore?

我们的做法到底是什么？

Like, what are we doing here?

因为对吧？

Because Right?

他们觉得这很可疑。

They saw it was suspicious.

他们重新开了案。

They reopened.

他们再次进行了检测。

They test again.

他们的所有检测几乎都确认这是可疑的，但他们遇到了一个小障碍，然后就说：抱歉。

All their tests, like, pretty much confirm it's suspicious, but they run into, like, one little roadblock, and it's like, sorry.

我们试了所有办法。

We tried everything.

我知道。

I know.

我们只好继续把它定为自杀，我想。

We'll just keep it a suicide, I guess.

这事儿简直臭不可闻。

It Like It stinks to high heaven.

罗宾不会轻易放弃。

And Robin is not about to give up.

她每转一个角落，每翻一块石头，都会发现新的线索，告诉她自己正走在正确的道路上。

Every corner she turns, every rock she flips over, she just keeps finding stuff that's telling her she's on the right track.

因此，她决定在那之后聘请一个名为‘希望联盟国际’的组织。

So she decides after this to hire an organization called Alliance for Hope International.

该组织由两位前检察官创立，他们是所谓的‘隐性凶杀案’或‘伪装成自杀的凶杀案’方面的专家。

That was started by two former prosecutors who are experts in what they call hidden homicides or homicides staged to look like suicide.

我的意思是，这个案子根本没怎么伪装。

I mean, this one was barely even staged.

是的。

Yeah.

正因如此，他们才会迅速接手这个案子。

Which is why they're quick to take this case on.

当他们采访罗宾，了解她母亲的故事并开始审查证据时，各种矛盾之处不断浮现。

And as they interview Robin about her mom's story and they start reviewing the evidence, the inconsistencies just keep piling up.

于是他们请来了两位不同的法医病理学家进行复核。

So they call in not one, but two different forensic pathologists to do a review.

其中一位是梅根·奎因医生，对她来说，事情再清楚不过了，她称对玛丽·安之死的调查是一场灾难性的失败。

One of them is doctor Megan Quinn, and it is so black and white to her that she calls the investigation into Mary Anne's death a cataclysmic failure.

她说：'这位女性的死因是勒颈，死亡方式为他杀。'

She says, quote, the cause of this woman's death is ligature strangulation, and the manner of death is homicide, end quote.

他们将证明这一点。

And they're gonna prove it.

每一个真实犯罪故事都有一个共同点。

Every true crime story has one thing in common.

事情远非表面所见，而没有任何播客比《变色龙》更懂这一点。

Nothing is as it seems, and no podcast knows that better than Chameleon.

我是乔什·迪恩，我的播客《变色龙》探讨了骗子和令人难以置信的骗局所隐藏的真实身份，足以让你质疑你所知道的一切。

I'm Josh Dean, and my podcast, Chameleon, explores hidden identities concealed by con artists and scams so mind blowing, it'll have you questioning everything you know.

如果你准备好揭开历史上最大的谎言，请在你收听播客的平台订阅《变色龙》。

If you're ready to uncover the biggest lies in history, listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.

希望联盟请来了另一位专家，威廉·斯莫克医生，他的名字对一些犯罪爱好者来说可能并不陌生。

Alliance for Hope brings in another expert, doctor William Smock, whose name probably sounds familiar for some crime junkie.

是的。

Yeah.

他在多个剧集、甚至多个系列中都曾出现过。

He's come up in a number of episodes, in a number of different series even.

但在这起案件中，他被要求复核玛丽安的尸检报告。

But in this case, he was asked to review Marianne's autopsy.

他仔细查阅了犯罪实验室的报告、艾米的发现以及照片，发现了许多问题。

He combs through the crime lab reports, the Emmy's findings, the photos, and he finds a lot of problems.

他指出，自缢的情况极为罕见。

He points out that self strangulation is extremely rare.

而在确实存在的案例中，勒索物必须具备某种锁定机制，才能持续对颈部施加压力。

And in the cases that do exist, the ligature has to have some kind of locking mechanism to keep pressure on the neck.

如果没有这种机制，当人开始失去意识时，双手会自然松开，血液回流，人就会苏醒。

Without that, as the person begins to lose consciousness, their hands fall away, blood returns, and they wake up.

玛丽·安死亡时使用的绳索没有任何锁定装置。

The cord in Mary Anne's death did not have any kind of locking device.

斯莫克医生发现的第二件事是，她的脖子上有两道不同的勒痕。

The second thing that Doctor.

斯莫克医生发现的第二件事是，她的脖子上有两道不同的勒痕。

Smock finds is that there are two different ligature marks on her neck.

这说明了什么？

What does that indicate?

这意味着绳子曾两次被紧紧地勒在她的脖子上，导致她窒息。

Well, it means it just means that the cord was placed around her neck tightly enough to choke her two times.

现在，那些想说是自杀的人可能会首先提出他们的第一个论点。

Now someone who's gonna try and say, oh, this is a suicide would probably just argue his first thing.

对吧？

Right?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

她失去了意识，又醒了过来，重新绕了一遍，然后又做了一次。

She lost consciousness, woke up, rewrapped it, and, like, did it again.

但按照同样的逻辑，她很可能又醒过来了。

But by that same, like, logic, she probably would have woken up again.

对。

Right.

对我来说，更有可能的是，有人把绳子绕了两圈在她脖子上，要么是因为他们需要重新抓稳，要么是她第一次被勒时还没死，或者玛丽·安是被勒死的，之后绳子又被绕了一圈来伪装成自杀。

It seems more likely to me that someone else wrapped it around her neck twice, either because they had to get their grip again or maybe she wasn't dead when they thought she was the first time or Mary Anne could have been strangled and then the cord was just wrapped around her neck a second time to stage the suicide.

负责希望联盟的两名检察官还发现了一些其他奇怪的线索，主要是表明如果有人有动机杀害玛丽·安，那很可能就是她的丈夫唐。

The two prosecutors who run Alliance for Hope also uncover a bunch of other wild stuff, mostly stuff that shows if anyone had motive to kill Mary Anne, it was her husband, Don.

据称，希望联盟审查了一份警方报告，我们也有这份报告，报告显示，在玛丽·安去世后，她的朋友唐娜·黑勒告诉一名侦探，在她去世前两个多月，玛丽·安曾说她觉得唐一直在跟踪她，并打算杀她。

Apparently, Alliance for Hope reviewed a police report, which we have as well, that after Mary Ann died, a friend of hers, Donna Heller, told a detective that over two months before her death, Mary Ann said that she thought Don had been following her and was going to kill her.

等等。

Wait.

她很早就告诉他们这些了吗？

She told this to them early on?

是的。

Yeah.

但这一点在警方报告中只出现了一次。

But this just shows up once in the police report.

看起来没有人对此进行跟进。

It doesn't look like anyone followed up on it.

我们联系了北菲尔德警方了解玛丽·安的案件，但他们拒绝置评。

And we reached out to Northfield police about Mary Anne's case, but they wouldn't comment.

现在，当希望联盟深入调查唐时，他们发现玛丽·安不在了之后，唐在经济上将获益。

Now when Alliance for Hope dug in on Don, they found that he stood to gain financially when Maryann was out of the picture.

唐得到了北菲尔德的那套房子。

Don got the Northfield home.

他保留了公寓的部分产权。

He retained partial ownership of the condo.

罗宾声称，由于玛丽·安没有立遗嘱，唐施压孩子们签署文件，放弃他们对北菲尔德房产的继承份额。

And Robin claims that because Mary Anne didn't have a will, Don pressured the kids into signing away their portion of their property inheritance from the Northfield home.