第738集：24/7市场如何进军华尔街

今天我们请到了海因·蒂博什。

We are joined here by Hein Tibosch.

他是Flow Traders公司数字资产产品的负责人。

He is the head of product digital assets over at Flow Traders.

海因，欢迎你，很高兴你能来。

Hein, welcome, and it's good to have you, man.

是的。

Yes.

我很高兴能来到这里。

Well, very happy to be here.

谢谢。

Thanks.

对。

Yeah.

这会是一场很有趣的对话。

This is gonna be a fun conversation.

你们是全球领先的流动性提供者，覆盖传统市场和加密货币等数字市场。

I mean, you guys are a leading global liquidity provider for both the traditional and the, you know, digital markets as well here in crypto.

你们公司已经存在很久了。

You guys have been around for a long time.

很期待听听你的见解，特别是你对当前市场的看法。

Excited to get your insights and really what you're making of the markets here.

我知道你们尤其专注于24小时不间断交易的市场。

You guys I know you especially are dealing with the twenty four seven markets.

这正是你们的强项。

It's kind of your specialty.

另外，代币化这个话题最近也引起了很多关注，听众们肯定已经兴奋起来了——过去一两年里，代币化一直是大家热议的焦点。

But, also, what's happening with tokenization, which I know turns a lot of heads here, and the listeners are already probably getting excited is, you know, tokenization has been one of those big talking points for, you know, the better part of the last year or two now.

不过在聊这个之前，先给听众们介绍一下你们在Flow Traders具体做些什么吧。

But before we even get into that, introduce the audience to what you're doing at Flow Traders.

是的。

Yes.

我十六年前就加入Flow了，算起来在这儿待了挺久的。

Well, I started at Flow like almost sixteen years ago, so I've been around for quite some time.

我职业生涯的大部分时间都是做交易员。

I was a trader most of my career.

一开始做ETF，我在纽约待了十多年，主要交易美国市场。

ETFs at the beginning, I spent over a decade in New York trading in The US markets.

从固定收益到大宗商品，从美国本土到全球ETF，我都做过。四年前我转战数字资产，先是从交易入手，后来就搬到了阿姆斯特丹，现在主要负责拓展我们的产品线。

I traded everything from fixed income to commodities, fixed domestic USA, global ETFs, And I transitioned to digital assets four years ago in The US, first from a trading side, and then it was time for me to move to Amsterdam, where I was at I'm adding our product offering currently.

我现在的重点是看这两个世界怎么融合。

And my main focus is, like, how the two worlds are converging.

一边是传统金融，另一边是加密和数字资产领域，看看它们之间正在发生什么。

So you have traditional world, you have the you have the crypto, the digital asset space, like what's happening there.

十年前，加密货币还很未来感，充满投机色彩。

You see, let's say, call it ten years ago, crypto was very futuristic, speculative.

那时候有时还显得有点不靠谱，但过去十年，它已经发展成一个成熟的行业，越来越多重量级玩家正从传统领域涌入数字资产市场。

Think it was a bit shady at times, but over the past ten years it really evolved into like a full fledged industry where you see very significant players moving into the digital to the traditional space.

但与此同时，传统机构也在逐步进入加密领域。

But at the same time, you see traditional players also moving into the crypto space.

目前，对我来说，以及对我们公司而言，核心重点都是代币化，以及与之相关的一切。

And then currently, would say tokenization, everything that comes with it is is really our core focus for me, but also for the firm.

有意思的一点是，我看到有人试图估算这个市场的总潜在规模，但不同人的估算范围差异很大，因为大家对它的应用场景和实际用途看法不一。

One of the interesting things is I've seen people try to put a total addressable market on this stuff, and you've seen the ranges be pretty vast because I think different people have different views about how it could be used or how it is being used.

你怎么看这个问题？

What do you think about that?

你觉得真正的价值在哪里？

Like, where do you think the true value is?

对我们来说，确实容易有偏见，对吧？

Because it's easy for us, right, to maybe be a little bit biased.

至少我是在说我自己，可能也包括一些听众。

At least I'm speaking for myself here and probably some of the listeners.

我们很容易带着偏见，觉得价值就在这儿、那儿、又那儿，结果很可能高估了整个潜在市场的规模。

It's easy for us to be biased and say, we'll see the value here and there and there and there, and we probably end up overvaluing how much the total addressable market could be.

但我认为你对这些传统玩家、一些大型机构实际能用上什么，有更务实的看法。

But I think you have a much more grounded idea of what is practically useful for some of these, you know, more traditional players, some of these bigger players.

你觉得哪些部分最有价值？他们最终会真正采用哪些东西？

What do you think are some of the more valuable parts, and what do you think they'll actually end up using?

这确实是个大问题。

Well, that's that's a big question.

我觉得整个金融市场都有可能全面转向代币化形式。

I could see I could see the whole market, just the whole financial industry move into into tokenized forms.

如果谈总市场规模，说白了，可能涵盖一切。

So if you talk about what's the total addressable market, it could be everything, like quite bluntly.

更实际地说，目前我们正从一个实验阶段走出来。

More practically speaking, currently, I think we're in a in a bit of a, I think experimentation phase we're getting out of it.

我们已经看到不少应用场景，特别是像DTCC这样的美国大型机构开始行动了，他们计划在7月15日首次代币化ETF。

We really see use cases, especially with the large US players stepping up like a DTCC that's will be tokenizing the first ETFs on the July 15.

首批真正通过DTCC进行的代币化交易即将落地。

The first, like, tokenized trades will be happening through DTCC.

到年底，任何人都可以选择购买代币化的股票或ETF，还是继续使用传统形式。

At the end of the year, it will be possible for anyone to choose whether you want to have buy a stock or an ETF in tokenized form or in traditional form.

我觉得这种趋势只会越来越强，因为效率上的优势非常明显。

And I could see that only scale up because the efficiencies are clearly there.

没错，确实如此。

It's well, it's it's yeah.

我不用跟你细说到底能带来多大的效率提升。

I don't need to explain to you how like, what kind of efficiencies you can attain.

去中介化就是其中之一，成本上的节省是显而易见的。

Disintermediation is is one of them, so there's just efficiencies in terms of cost.

还有可靠性与信任度，当所有交易都上链之后，就不用再像以前那样等T+2、T+1这种漫长的结算周期了。

Also in terms of, like, reliability, trust that you can get when everything is on chain rather than somewhere like with the t plus two, yeah, t plus two, t plus one, t plus one settlement.

我觉得未来几乎所有东西都会转向代币化形式。

So I could see plenty everything move into a a tokenized form.

但真正为普通人带来了什么？我觉得这始终是个关键问题——你每天都能交易代币化的股票。

What it really brings to the people, because I think that's always a big question, you have tokenized stocks every trading.

对于普通投资者来说，尤其是在非洲或东南亚那些银行体系不发达的地区，任何人都能买苹果股票，甚至以小额碎片化的方式投资，这让以前无法参与市场的人有了机会，这显然是个巨大的进步。

Obviously, for retail, if you're in a place that's less banks or you're there's no true traditional banks in whether it's in Africa and the the Africa or Southeast Asia, anyone is able to buy a stock of Apple and to get like, to also invest a little bit in a fractional form, but people can really people can start become active on markets they previously couldn't, which is obvious gain.

不过，如果跟华尔街相比，这个潜在市场还是相对小的。

But of course, that addressable market is relatively small if you if you you if you compare it to Wall Street.

但与此同时，这一点我还是要强调，主要是面向普通投资者的。

But at the same time, and this is again, I would say, retail focused.

一些过去普通人接触不到的产品，比如私人信贷、私募股权，现在也能触达了。

Products can be accessible to to people to that were previously not accessible, whether it's private credit, it might be private equity.

这些投资工具以前根本不容易拿到手。

All of these all these instruments you cannot easily get it.

但现在通过代币化形式，你只需花一千、五千或一万美元，就能获得这些资产的敞口，从而分散你的投资组合。

But now in a tokenized form, can also spend a thousand or 5,000 or $10,000 to get that exposure and to diversify your portfolio.

所以听起来是这样，你要是觉得我说得对，就确认一下——我觉得这其中有四个关键点，说明了它的用途和影响力。

So it sounds like and let me know if I'm right on this, but it sounds like there's kind of four key takeaways about how it can be useful and why it will be impactful.

我看到的这四点之一，就是能省钱。

And the four that I'm seeing is that it saves money.

对吧？

Right?

或者可能是三个，但关键是这能为所有相关方节省成本。

Or maybe it's three, but it really saves money for everyone involved.

对吧？

Right?

如果能降低成本，尤其是对机构和大玩家而言，他们能因此省钱，那再好不过了。

If you can get cheaper, especially for the institutions, the bigger players, if they can save money by doing this stuff, better for them.

对吧？

Right?

这正是他们最关心的。

That's kinda what they're all about.

其他方面就是，这会是24.07美元。

The other parts would be that this would be $24.07.

我觉得人们真的很期待这个。

I think people yearn for that.

对吧？

Right?

市场交易时间越长，理论上就能有更多资金参与进来，尤其是像那种公司。

The more time that the market's trading, you could theoretically say that, you know, there's there's more money to be involved in, obviously, again, company kind of like that.

我们散户特别喜欢这样。

Us as retail, we really like that.

对吧？

Right?

我们可以更频繁地交易。

We're able to trade more frequently.

因为很多人不明白，就算市场收盘了，价格还在变动。

Because what people don't understand is that the market is moving even while it's closed.

对吧？

Right?

传统上，市场虽然收盘了，但信息仍在消化，价格其实还在调整。

In the traditional sense, just because the market closed doesn't mean that things aren't being priced in and the market isn't technically moving.

所以你经常看到价格跳空，也就不足为奇了。

That's why you see gaps so often.

对吧？

Right?

你一回来发现，哦，原来其他市场发生了点事，这些信息早就被市场消化了，还有算法能估算出这些变化会对不同资产产生什么影响，哪怕它们在传统交易时段里没怎么动。

You come back and it's like, oh, well, something was happening in some other market and that was being priced in, and there's algorithms to kind of calculate how that would impact, you know, different assets while they're maybe not trading actively in the traditional sense.

我觉得这一点其实特别有用。

So I think that's really useful as well.

另一个关键点就是流动性。

And then the other big one here is liquidity.

对吧？

Right?

如果价格能更精细，比如低到24.07美元，流动性自然就提升了，这确实很重要。

If you can have stuff that is cheaper, if it can be $24.07, and you can essentially kind of increase liquidity, then I think that that matters.

而流动性提升的方式，我们以前也聊过，但很多人还是不太明白，就是说，一个资产或者一只股票……

And the way that it increases liquidity, and this is something that we've talked about before, but I don't think a lot of people understand, is just because an asset or a stock.

对吧？

Right?

咱们直说吧。

Let's just be blunt.

一只股票在美国交易，并不意味着全世界的人都能随便开个券商账户去买卖它。

Just because, like, a stock or something trades in The US doesn't mean that everyone in the world can just open up a brokerage account and trade that.

经常被忽略的是，虽然有很多可交易的资产，尤其是美国和其他一些国家的，但也有不少国家根本没法像我们这样轻松接触到这些资产。

What's what's very frequently looked over is that there's all these tradable assets, you know, especially inside The United States and and a lot of other countries, but there's also a lot of countries that just cannot get access to those in the same way that we might.

这样一来，就能让更多的普通人参与到市场中来。

And so you'd be opening up the market to a lot more people.

我说的这些都对吗？有没有漏掉什么？

Is that all accurate, or did I miss anything?

没错。

Yes.

我不知道你怎么样，但我总是不知不觉就到晚饭时间了。

I don't know about you, but dinner sneaks up on me all the time.

我一打开冰箱，才发现没准备任何蛋白质食物。

I'll open the fridge and realize I have no protein ready.

这时候我可不想跑去超市，临时赶购，还赌一把店里剩的肉或汉堡。

And at that point, I'm not trying to go to the store, make a last minute grocery run, and gamble on whatever meats or burgers are left at the store.

所以奥马哈牛排真是冰箱里必备的好选择。

That's why Omaha Steaks is a great freezer move.

就像家里有个信得过的肉铺，随时能拿到高品质的蛋白质。

It's like having a trusted butcher at home and quality protein when you need it the most.

奥马哈牛排靠百年口碑赢得了信赖。

Omaha Steaks has earned its reputation with over a hundred years.

全美家庭厨房都认可的牛肉，直接送到你家门口。

It's the same beef trusted in kitchens across the country, shipped straight to your door.

牛排馆的水准，却不用牛排馆的价格。

Steakhouse quality without the steakhouse prices.

家人还以为你花了好几个小时做晚餐，其实根本没花多少时间。

Your family will think dinner took hours, but it didn't.

只要几分钟。

Just minutes.

如果你还没试过，汉堡完美精选套装是最理想的入门选择。

And if you never tried them, the burger perfection flight is the perfect place to start.

你将得到二十个顶级牛排汉堡，选用五种不同部位的牛排制成。

You get 20 premium steak burgers made from five different cuts of steak.

四个菲力牛排汉堡、四个纽约客牛排汉堡、四个肋眼牛排汉堡、四个牛腩汉堡，还有四个西冷牛排汉堡。

Four filet mignon burgers, four New York strip burgers, four rib eye burgers, four brisket burgers, and four sirloin burgers.

兄弟们，这简直就是汉堡界的山寨币组合。

Guys, this is the altcoin basket of burgers right here.

如果我和布莱恩要分这些，肯定一人一半，毕竟你们知道我们夏天有多爱烤肉。

If me and Brian were on the rundown, we would be divvying these up fifty fifty because you know how we like to grill in the summer.

你买的不只是盒装汉堡，而是多种风味、不同口感的真正牛排馆级选择，随时能上烤架，或者平时快速搞定一餐。

So you're not just getting a box of burgers, you're getting different flavor profiles, different textures, and real steakhouse style variety you can throw on the grill or cook up fast during the week.

现在就去 omahasteaks.com 试试汉堡完美精选套装吧。

Try the burger perfection flight at omahasteaks.com today.

20个高级牛排汉堡，只要79.99美元，使用促销码beef还能再减35美元。

That's 20 premium steak burgers for just $79.99, plus get $35 off with the promo code beef.

上omahasteaks.com下单。

That's omahasteaks.com.

结账时输入促销码beef，立减35美元。

Promo code beef for $35 off at checkout.

条款适用。

Terms apply.

详情请见官网。

See site for details.

别人听到噪音，T.

When others hear noise, T.

罗素价格通过解读市场信号，发现投资机会。

Rowe Price interprets market signals to find investment opportunities.

这就是T的主动型ETF的力量。

That's the power of active ETFs from T.

T. Rowe Price

Rowe Price.

他们的投资经理从多个角度分析数据，深入研究市场趋势，用严谨的探索精神提供主动管理服务。

Their portfolio managers approach data from multiple perspectives, analyzing trends and conducting deep research to give you their curiosity backed active management expertise.

了解更多关于他们的主动型ETF，请访问 trowprice.com/explore-etfs。

Learn more about their active ETFs at trowprice.com slash explore ETFs.

交易所交易基金（ETF）按市场价格买卖，而非按净资产价值。

Exchange traded funds, ETFs, are bought and sold at market prices, not NAV.

投资者通常需要承担买卖份额时的买卖价差成本。

Investors generally incur the cost of the spread between the prices at which shares are bought and sold.

买卖基金份额可能产生经纪佣金，从而降低投资回报。

Buying and selling shares may result in brokerage commissions, which will reduce returns.

T. Rowe Price 投资服务公司

T Rowe Price Investment Services Inc.

我觉得这些说法都准确无误。

Well, I think it's it's all accurate.

我觉得，现在有了更多先进的投资方式，形式多样，我待会儿再详细说。

I I think the the access to more advanced ways to invest, I think, in in in a lots of different shapes and forms, I will come back to that.

我觉得这是个非常关键的因素，也正因如此，这类趋势已经迅速兴起。

I think that's a very important consideration why I think it's it's already taking off.

我之前听到的说法是，稳定币在为无银行账户的人提供金融服务，而代币化则在为未被经纪服务覆盖的人牵线搭桥。

What I heard before is that like the like the stablecoins basically are banking the unbanked and tokenization is sort of brokering the unbrokered.

我觉得，这正是我们正在走向的主流叙事。

I think that's sort of the narrative we're moving towards.

举个例子，我刚才说的，你怎么才能更聪明地打理你的钱？

And to give an example what I just said about like how can you be more savvy with your your money?

这能带来多大的新投资机会？

How big can it bring new investment opportunities?

想想看，你的钱现在只是躺在银行账户里，一动不动。

If you think about your dollars, they're just sitting in a bank account.

你的券商账户里，可能也还留着一些闲置资金。

You always might have some still dollars on your brokerage account.

这些钱并不总是在投资，只是躺在账户里，根本赚不到任何收益。

It's not always it's not always invested, which and it's just sitting there, and it's just not gaining you any yield.

收益其实都被你的券商或银行拿走了。

It's it's it's gaining yield for like your brokerage firm or for your bank.

目前最典型的例子之一就是代币化的货币市场基金。如果银行和相关机构愿意接受这类产品，我觉得现在市场需求还比较低，因为这类产品提供的收益率是传统美元账户根本给不了的，对传统业务构成了竞争压力。

Like one of the I think the most the best examples right now of a tokenized product that's that's that's taking off a tokenized money market funds, where if you if banks if parties are open to accept these, and I think right now the appetite might be a bit low because it's sort of a competitive threat that a product offers you a yield that you cannot get on your on your dollars.

如果你把钱放进代币化的货币市场基金，差不多就相当于一比一兑换美元，但至少你账户里躺着的钱也能开始产生收益了。

If you put your money in tokenized money market funds, which is basically you could compare it as almost a one one versus US dollars, that way you can get some yield also in the money that's sitting still in your account.

我觉得越来越多的人会意识到这些机会，尤其是那些更先进的机构，一旦开始为客户提供这类产品，就能抢到市场份额，也会逼得传统机构不得不跟进，否则他们就会不断流失客户。

And I think the more people will realize these possibilities, and the more players, like especially the more advanced players that will offer this to their clients, they will get market share and they will also force traditional players to move into offering these kinds of products because they will simply be losing they will simply be losing market share.

这跟现在越来越多银行开始涉足加密货币是一个道理。

It's the same comparison as by now a lot of banks are getting active in crypto.

几年前，要是美国的银行说要给客户直接提供比特币，根本是不可想象的。

Think, well, if you talk about in The US just offering Bitcoin to your to your customers A few years back, it was impossible basically.

对吧？

Right?

现在这已经做得到了。

Now it is possible.

我觉得，几乎所有大型金融机构都已经在向客户推出这项服务，或者正在准备推出。

You see, I would say every major financial institution is already offers it to clients or is in a process of offering this to clients.

原因之一是，过去十年里，他们眼看着资金持续不断地从传统机构流向这个更高效的新世界。

And one of the reasons is simply because they, over the last ten years, they've seen money flow out at a pretty consistent pace outside of their traditional firms to the more to the core basis of this world that they're able to to access this.

比如，我觉得代币化货币市场基金也会经历同样的过程——从早期尝试的玩家，逐渐扩展到更成熟的机构，它们会把这些产品带给客户。

And I would say, for example, tokenized money market funds, I could see the same I could see the same flow happen basically where it moved from additional player to more advanced players that are offering this to their customers.

再进一步说，这听起来可能有点未来感，但如果真能做到全部上链，连股票都可以代币化，所有资产都直接存在数字钱包里。

And then if you take it one notch further, and this might sound futuristic, but if it's possible, if you do everything on chain, also tokenize stocks, everything should was just sit in a digital wallet.

这样一来，托管服务就和你持有代币化货币市场基金、稳定币的地方完全一致，只要你有这些需求。

So you don't need a, like, the custody will be done at the same place as where you hold the token tokenized money market funds, where you hold your stablecoins if you if you have a need for these.

所有资产都留在链上环境中，而不是像传统体系那样，依赖清算所、券商等各种中间环节。

So everything is sitting in in a is an on chain environment rather than a traditional environment where you have set way of a clearinghouse, where you have a where you have a brokerage, like all of that.

我觉得，这肯定是加密原生玩家希望市场走向的方向。

So I think that's that's a direction where, for sure, the crypto native players, they would want the market to move into these.

所以我觉得，超级应用这个概念经常被一些更懂加密的人提起，他们就想往这个方向发展，而资产代币化正好能实现这一点。

That's why I think, like, super apps is a it's it's common it's often mentioned by some of the, like, more crypto native players that that's what they want to become, and tokenization enables this.

而传统机构也会跟进，否则他们的资产就会不断流向这些新兴玩家。

And then the traditional players will also adopt it because otherwise they could see more assets flow into these players.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

你说得很有道理。

I think you're right about that.

我注意到你一直强调，基础设施和一些运营模式必须改进或调整，才能适应未来的发展趋势。

And one of the things I've seen you be be vocal on is about how infrastructure and some of these operating models either need to improve or change to kind of fit the mold moving forward.

你能再详细说说这方面的情况吗？可能会带来哪些影响？

Can you walk us through a little bit more on that and what the impact maybe would be?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得代币化资产的一个挑战，尤其是在做市商的角色上。

I think one of the challenges is of a tokenized asset, also as a market maker.

在传统市场里，你通常是在收盘时才结算。

In the traditional space, you you settle at the end of the day.

也就是说，你可以一整天不停地和主经纪商交易，获得杠杆，不需要一开始就垫付全部资金。

Meaning, you can trade all day in and out with with a prime brokerage where you get leverage, meaning that you don't need to put all the money upfront in order to trade it.

但在代币化环境中，你必须实际持有代币化资产，或者持有稳定币，才能进行交易。

When you talk about it in tokenized in a tokenized space, you basically you really need to hold either tokenized assets or you need to hold the stablecoins to trade in these.

所以我们需要一种主经纪商的功能——不是指公司，而是指这种功能——来缓解资本效率低下的问题。比如，如果你要在周末为一千只股票在五个不同平台报价，作为做市商，你就得押上大量资本。

And so we need some kind of prime brokerage firm, like prime brokerage function, not firm but function, where you have these kind of inefficiencies capital wise, because if you would be you would have to quote like a thousand stocks in the weekends at five different venues, it means like as a mark making firm, we need to put up a lot of capital.

这确实是个难题，但我知道已经有不少机构正在积极研究，试图在这个领域做出创新。

So this is a challenge, which I know is also actually worked on by quite some parties to play a role and to be innovative in this space.

链上模式本身很棒，但这个问题确实存在。

Because the like the on chain business, like the on chain model is great, but this is yeah.

这个问题必须解决，而根据我过去六个月的交流，我很有信心，未来会出现新的模式来应对这个挑战。

This is a chance that needs to be fixed, but I and I'm pretty confident on the conversation I've had over the last six months that, yeah, models will be will be introduced to solve for this.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

确实如此。

It it has.

我知道有一件事让我特别惊讶，就是能把游戏和电子竞技的各个部分都通证化，创造出全新的经济体系，这个想法真的很棒。

I know one of the big things that that shocked me is, you know, I really like the idea of being able to tokenize different parts of of the gaming space and video games and creating, like, these other economies.

我觉得，就算我们不把游戏本身放在区块链上，光是让经济系统跑在区块链上，也完全说得通。

And I was like, man, you know, even if we don't build the games on blockchain, I think having the economies run through blockchain just makes so much sense.

我是个狂热的Steam用户，经常接触游戏社区，也看到像《反恐精英》这样的游戏已经开始用上这类技术。

I'm a avid, you know, Steam user for the gaming community, and I've seen, you know, different games kinda utilize this stuff like Counter Strike.

我当时就想，这明显就是未来的发展方向。

I was like, man, that that just seems like it would kinda be the the direction that we would move.

转眼间，几年过去了。

You know, here we are a couple years later.

结果发现，传统金融、银行和整个金融行业，资金量远超游戏行业。

Turns out the traditional financial world and banking and and the whole finance space, there's a lot more money in that than probably in gaming.

所以我们后来就转向了这个方向。

And so that was the direction that we moved.

但让我没想到的是，他们对这件事居然这么开放。

But I think it has been shocking to see how open they have become to this.

我觉得你刚才说得对，现在确实有越来越多的资产管理公司推出了各种代币化基金。

And I think you made a good point there because now it's like, well, there's all these different tokenized funds from different, you know, asset managers out there.

你知道的。

You know?

对吧？

Right?

贝莱德、富兰克林邓普顿这些大机构，态度都非常开放，还在不断加码。

BlackRock and and Templeton and some of these other ones are just so so open to it and adding more.

另外一点是，我觉得他们整体的走向也越来越清晰了。

And then the other part of that is I think the overall, you know, direction that they're that they're just moving with this.

他们现在对这个想法真的非常开放，我们跟很多资产管理公司和银行都聊过。

Again, they're they're just they're so open to the idea now, and we talked to a lot of these asset managers and these banks.

我觉得发生的变化是，一些更偏向数字资产的公司，比如Hyperliquid这类，其实正在施加压力，因为他们看到：

And I think what has happened is that some of these these more I don't wanna call them, like, DeFi protocols, but some of these more, like, digital asset based companies, like Hyperliquid, for example, I think are applying pressure because what they're seeing is that they're saying, hey.

你们可以通过我们交易几乎任何东西，24小时不间断。

You can trade just about anything $24.07 through us.

想交易金属？

You wanna trade metals.

想交易能源？

You wanna trade energy.

想交易股票？

You wanna trade equities.

想交易加密货币？

You wanna trade crypto.

都可以，我们全天候提供服务。

You can do it through us twenty four seven.

Hyperliquid和其他一些玩家，比如X stocks，也是其中之一。

And Hyperliquid, among other players, you know, X stocks has been another one.

他们做得非常成功。

They've been really successful.

我觉得传统金融界看到这种情况，心里也在想：他们正在抢走市场份额，而且根本没什么理由阻止他们这么做。

And I think that what you have is the traditional financial world looking at that and saying, hey, they're kind of taking market share, and there's no real reason why they can't do that.

对吧？

Right?

如果他们真想做，其实完全可以。

If they truly wanted to, they could.

我觉得他们正在关注这一点，这种压力其实对我们大多数人来说都是好事。

And I think that they're looking at that, and I think it's applying pressure, which is, oh, I think a win for most of us.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得你提到的这一点最让我兴奋，像Flow Traders这家公司，你知道吗，我们把加密货币、传统股票和ETF全都放在同一个平台上交易。

I think I think what you're bringing up, think that's what excites me most, and also like Flow Traders as a company is so what you should know, like, crypto and our traditional equities and ETFs, we're all trading it under the same roof.

对我们来说，链上交易和在纳斯达克、欧洲或亚洲交易所交易一样方便。

So we are for us it's well, I would say almost as as easy to trade something on chain as doing it over traditional, whatever it is, NASDAQ or like a European or Asian Asian exchange.

我们能接入任何市场，无论是链上还是传统市场，都能自由交易。

We we can plug in everywhere, and we can just trade whether it's on chain or just traditional space.

现在这两个世界正在融合，Hyperliquid 就是个很好的例子。

Now, like, how these these worlds are coming together, and I think Hyperliquid is a great example.

像永续合约这种产品，其实早在比特币出现之前就存在了，但真正验证其可行性的，还是在加密领域。

Also in terms of, like, I think perpetuals, they they like, the concept existed way before way before bit Bitcoin came to came to life, but, like, the concept is really it's it's like, the proof of concept is is done in the in the crypto space.

现在你看到，Hyperliquid 在周末的交易量已经相当可观，而它依然是个去中心化协议，传统机构根本没法轻易接入。

Now you see, like, on a twenty four seven basis, like, the weekend volumes on Hyperliquid, they they're getting get pretty significant, and then it's still a DeFi it's still a DeFi protocol, which is pretty hard, if not impossible, to access by any traditional player.

不管是对冲基金，还是宏观基金，都一样。

So or like whether it's a hedge fund or whether it's a a macro fund.

我觉得像 Hyperliquid 这样的平台，会继续努力扩大市场份额，不仅在正常交易时段，连周末也不例外。

And like I could see both like players like Hyperliquid move more to see how they can kept kept more of this of the market shares, also during regular hours and logical extensions to weekends.

但与此同时，CME 也刚刚推出了类似产品。

But at the same time, of course, like CME also just came out.

他们也在提供更多全天候的服务，这对我们来说非常令人兴奋，因为在加密领域，全天候交易已经证明了它的可行性。

They're also having more like twenty four seven offerings, and that is a very exciting development for us because it's sort of your in crypto, it's it's a proof of concept twenty four seven.

传统市场现在也开始跟进这种模式了。

The traditional markets, it's happening now.

对于资产管理人来说，传统银行在周五、周六或周日做交易，时机其实没那么重要。

And, of course, it's the traditional bank, when you're an asset manager, like your timing, whether you do it on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday for your conviction trade, it doesn't matter that much.

但如果你是对冲基金，或者类似的机构，这些玩家都希望接入这些全天候市场，这正是我们努力的方向——确保我们也能服务好这类交易对手。

But if you're if you're a pot shop, if you're a hedge fund, all of these players, they will want to access these twenty four seven markets, and that's what we're really gearing for to to make sure we can serve also these kind of counterparties.

是的。

Yeah.

我完全同意你的看法。

Well, I I'm right on board with you, man.

现在发生的事情太多了。

There's a lot of stuff happening.

我们非常感谢你们所做的一切。

We really appreciate what you're doing.

你正在和这些机构打交道。

You're talking with these players.

你也在和他们合作。

You're working with them.

你们正在把这套系统搭建起来。

You guys are building it out.

如果有人想参与进来，想关注你们的动态，他们可以在哪里找到你们？

If people wanna get involved, they wanna follow what you're doing, where can they find you at?

最简单的方式是访问 flowtraders.com，另外当然也可以在 LinkedIn 上找到我们。

So flowtraders.com is probably the easiest spots, but otherwise, like LinkedIn, obviously.

如果对方更偏向加密货币圈，也可以转到 Telegram，不过咱们先从这里开始吧。

And you can always move to Telegram if it's if it's more crypto native, but let's start there.

太棒了。

Awesome.

海因，非常感谢你抽出时间。

Well, Hein, we appreciate your time, man.

非常感谢你参与我们的对话。

Thank you so much for joining us.

是的。

Yes.

谢谢。

Thank you.

当别人听到噪音时，Tiro Price却能从中解读市场信号，发现投资机会。

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That's the power of active ETFs from T.

罗素价格。

Rowe Price.

他们的投资经理从多个角度分析数据，追踪趋势并深入研究，将好奇心转化为扎实的主动管理能力。

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交易所交易基金，也就是ETF，是按市场价格买卖的，而不是按净资产价值。

Exchange traded funds, ETFs, are bought and sold at prices, not NAV.

投资者通常要承担买卖份额时价格差额的成本。

Investors generally incur the cost of the spread between the prices at which shares are bought and sold.

买卖基金份额可能会产生经纪佣金，从而降低收益。

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T.

T.

罗素价格投资服务公司。

Rowe Price Investment Services Inc.